highaltitude.log.20150310

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[06:07] <Vaizki> aaand morning. Sleep is overrated.
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[06:36] <daveake> mon
[06:36] <daveake> er
[06:36] <daveake> morn
[06:36] <daveake> so early I can't typ
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[07:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7IXX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7IXX-11
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[07:46] <nickjohnson> Nine hundred and five dollars?! https://www.tindie.com/products/rcs27/saddle-trap/
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[08:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03INFCU1 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFCU1
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[08:37] <jededu> Does anybody know of any EVOH foil in the uk
[08:37] <jededu> Suppliers
[08:37] <jededu> Not by the Tonne
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[08:48] <Laurenceb_> jededu: I got some samples
[08:48] <jededu> Where from Laurenceb ?
[08:48] <Laurenceb_> but ringing Kuraray
[08:49] <Laurenceb_> talking to their UK sales rep
[08:49] <jededu> I found them :) diddnt think of samples
[08:50] <jededu> How much did they send
[08:50] <Laurenceb_> ~10m^2
[08:50] <jededu> What width
[08:51] <infaddict> morning all
[08:52] <Laurenceb_> 96cm iirc
[08:54] <jededu> Thx Laurenceb worth a try :)
[08:55] <Laurenceb_> there are some problems
[08:56] <Laurenceb_> its very thin (14µm) but its also hard to heat seal
[08:56] <Laurenceb_> Leo got ~27µm Alu/Nylon6/EVOH/Nylon6/PE film from ebay
[08:56] <Laurenceb_> then stripped the Alu with NaOH
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[08:58] <jededu> I see good to know
[08:58] <jededu> Did you have any success with it
[08:58] <Laurenceb_> havent tried
[08:58] <jededu> Ah ok
[08:58] <Laurenceb_> i gave my samples to Leo :P
[08:59] <Laurenceb_> bbl
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[10:57] <Babs____> Morning - for those with experience of the pico GPS antenna - is it right that it has no ground connection, or is the other of the soldering points something more than just an anchor to the board?
[10:57] <mattbrejza> yep
[10:57] <mattbrejza> (second connection is just mechanical)
[10:58] <Babs____> Ok cool thanks
[10:58] <Babs____> Second - is there an easy way to
[10:58] <Babs____> Create a custom outline to fit around it, rather than just make a square board ?
[10:59] <Babs____> I only seem to be able to modify to a square or rectangular board on eagle
[10:59] <mattbrejza> yea you can use the dimention layer to draw whatever boardshape you want
[10:59] <mattbrejza> just delete what it already has and draw another line aroudn the board
[10:59] <Babs____> I owe you mucho beers mattbrejza
[10:59] <mattbrejza> just make it thickness 0
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[10:59] <mattbrejza> ;) np
[11:00] <Babs____> I had a look on tinternet and it was talking about importing cad files etc which seemed overkill
[11:00] <Babs____> Cheers
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[11:01] <mattbrejza> for example: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByyC-E9CYAAwadV.png:large
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[11:04] <Vaizki> you know you've been hanging on here long enough when ublox, lora etc footprints stick out immediately...
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[11:05] <UpuWork> needs moar frame mattbrejza
[11:05] <mattbrejza> needed v-scores
[11:05] <mattbrejza> or at least hole breakaway things
[11:06] <UpuWork> stencil ?
[11:06] <mattbrejza> i did those boards by hand
[11:06] <UpuWork> k
[11:06] <mattbrejza> but i can laser cut one from mylar if needed
[11:06] <UpuWork> that would need partial vscores
[11:06] <UpuWork> Mitch can't do those
[11:06] <UpuWork> not a problem if you have someone who can though
[11:06] <mattbrejza> this was dirtypcbs which dont vscore
[11:07] <UpuWork> oh ok
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[11:08] <UpuWork> filter on the GPS ?
[11:08] <mattbrejza> its the ublox suggested esd protection
[11:08] <UpuWork> ok
[11:08] <UpuWork> why is your logo reversed ?
[11:08] <mattbrejza> it protected against esd, unfortinetly it also protected against GNSS signals
[11:08] <UpuWork> heh ok
[11:09] <mattbrejza> persumably the board has not been mirrored
[11:09] <Vaizki> so there's 2 lora tracker boards, one with PDIP 328p, one with SMD.. a lora receiver.. and a third tracker?
[11:09] <pc1pcl> probably showing my lack of practical experience but the top and bottom don't fit on each other / one of them is inside out?
[11:09] <UpuWork> ok thats all my questions thx :)
[11:09] <Babs____> Got my tracker down to 9 vias - gold, silver or bronze star?
[11:09] <mattbrejza> yea the right hand side is xray view
[11:09] <UpuWork> hey Babs____
[11:09] <UpuWork> did I come back to you on your design ?
[11:10] <mattbrejza> yea there are three trackers, just using up my 10x10
[11:10] <Vaizki> all different designs?
[11:10] <Babs____> Hey UpuWork - no
[11:10] <mattbrejza> yea
[11:10] <mattbrejza> one of them is just cut down slightly
[11:10] <UpuWork> ack sorry
[11:11] <Babs____> I stripped the tracker down to just the essentials ie no motor drivers etc and had a go at laying out a tiny board just to get some experience
[11:11] <edmoore> yo babs
[11:11] <Babs____> Edomite
[11:11] <Babs____> Hmmm
[11:11] <Babs____> Edmoore - unusual autocorrect
[11:12] <Babs____> Do anyway, have got a basic tracker down to 8cm by 1.75cm running off a single aaa with a boost circuit which I think is probably an ok result
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[11:13] <Babs____> For an illiterate eagle person anyway
[11:13] <edmoore> i've got food poisoning
[11:13] <edmoore> so ner
[11:14] <Babs____> You can do some high velocity rocket nozzle tests in situ. There is always a bonus to being ill.
[11:16] <Babs____> UpuWork: it was really just "yes that looks sensible as a starting point" or "you are smoking something if you think that is going to work" kind of observation was all I needed
[11:16] <Babs____> I have to learn by practice - just wanted to make sure I wasn't going down a dead end from the outset
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[11:20] <Jacob_> Is there a relationship between baud rate and range of transmission?
[11:20] Nick change: Jacob_ -> Guest12807
[11:22] <edmoore> yes
[11:23] <edmoore> an inverse one
[11:25] <Guest12807> straight inverse?
[11:26] <Guest12807> i was thinking of using 600 baud rate. but i might not make 11.5km if i do that i fear
[11:26] <edmoore> no not straight inverse
[11:27] <edmoore> double the baud rate gives you 1/sqrt(2) the range
[11:27] <edmoore> so think about it like this
[11:27] <edmoore> the radio has a certain transmit power
[11:28] <edmoore> a baud rate can be inverted to give you a time per bit
[11:28] <edmoore> so 50 baud is 1/50 = 0.02s = 20 milliseconds
[11:28] <edmoore> so one bit gets say 10mW for 20 milliseconds
[11:28] <edmoore> a power multiplied with a time is an energy
[11:28] <edmoore> so we have this concept of energy per bit
[11:29] <edmoore> now when you transmit, to a very rough approximation, that transmit energy gets broadcast out as a sphere
[11:29] <edmoore> as it's in 3d space
[11:30] <Babs____> edmoore: you need a tweed jacket with elbow patches and a pointer
[11:30] <Ian_> edumoore
[11:30] <edmoore> so if you double your distance from the transmitter that's like you're now standing on a sphere of double the radius
[11:30] Action: SpeedEvil imagines edmoore with a dog.
[11:31] <edmoore> which means the sphere has 4 times the surface area
[11:31] <edmoore> that means that transmission power (or energy) is 4 times less concentrated
[11:32] <edmoore> so basically to go twice as far away from the transmitter you'd need 4x the energy per bit (at the transmitter) to receive the same amount of energy per bit at the receiver
[11:32] <edmoore> you could do that by increasing the transmitter power or spending longer (4x longer) transmitting each bit
[11:32] <edmoore> ok so now i must do some of my own work
[11:32] <Vaizki> so it's better to go to a mode with more bits per symbol than increase symbol rate?
[11:33] <Vaizki> for maximum range that is...
[11:33] <edmoore> depends how much bandwidth you have
[11:33] <edmoore> if not constarined by bandwidth, yes
[11:33] <Vaizki> right
[11:35] <Vaizki> but starting from RTTY with one bit per symbol I'm pretty sure there's ways to go before the bandwidth limits start kicking in...
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: Well, yes.
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: But in practice, there is an _enormous_ cliff as you go over the horizon - very fast
[11:35] <Vaizki> enormous cliff in what?
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> meaning that you can't really get much - unless you need >>50 baud, or well under 10mW
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> signal
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> The signal drops off very, very fast as you go out of line-of-sight.
[11:36] <edmoore> 50 baud is nowhere near saturating our channel capacity
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[11:36] <Vaizki> no I mean to get a better data rate
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[11:36] <edmoore> if we applied some science then habs should routinely be able to do 10kbps with current radios and receiverts
[11:36] <Vaizki> not to increase range beoyond LoS
[11:36] <Guest12807> id like to transmit 1300 times each packet is 600 bits in 1333 seconds
[11:36] <Guest12807> so i need quite aa high baud rate :/
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> yes - even with BPSK - 50bps isn't remotely the limit
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[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I should have read all the context.
[11:37] <Vaizki> I think the main reason for RTTY is that's it's dead easy to get people helping with the tracking?
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:37] <edmoore> yes
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> In principle, any other format could be used simply by patching dl-fldigi
[11:38] <Vaizki> but if they are setting up fldigi anyway, then there's a bunch of modes available
[11:38] <edmoore> simple, sloppy, good enough
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> and that of course, yes.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> But rtty is doable even by 'random ham who doesn't speak english very well and uses win 3.11'
[11:38] <Guest12807> if i have 10 bits per symbol is baud rate symbol rate or bit rate?
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> baud rate is symbols/s
[11:39] <edmoore> rtty choice predates fldigi being used
[11:39] <Vaizki> baud rate = symbol rate
[11:39] <edmoore> it was the first thing we tried after morse
[11:39] <Vaizki> you did morse? :O
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[11:40] <Guest12807> so that would be 60 symbols in a packet, so id need 60 baud to transmit every second?
[11:40] <daveake> 600
[11:40] <Vaizki> yes
[11:40] <Laurenceb> http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer
[11:41] <Vaizki> mmm.. maybe I misunderstood
[11:41] <daveake> <Guest12807> id like to transmit 1300 times each packet is 600 bits in 1333 seconds
[11:41] <daveake> So approx 600 bits per second
[11:41] <Vaizki> yes but he said he has 10 bits per symbol
[11:41] <daveake> so 600 baud
[11:42] <daveake> he means 1 start 7 data 2 stop, or something
[11:42] <Vaizki> ok so 10 bits per character
[11:42] <Vaizki> then it's 600
[11:42] <daveake> yup
[11:42] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[11:42] <daveake> didn't we do all this 2 weeks ago?
[11:42] <Guest12807> 8 data 1 start 1 stop
[11:42] <daveake> seems very familiar
[11:42] <Guest12807> so its 60 baud right?
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[11:43] <daveake> NO IT's 600
[11:43] <Guest12807> i thought baud was suymbol per second no bit
[11:43] <Guest12807> not*
[11:43] <Vaizki> ar eyou using RTTY?
[11:44] <Vaizki> if you are, then you are getting one bit per baud/symbol
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[11:44] <Vaizki> so if you need to send 600 bits in one second, that's 600 baud
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[11:49] <edmoore> Jake__, you're right
[11:50] <edmoore> baud is symbols per second not bits per second
[11:50] <Jake__> im glad, what am i right about?
[11:50] <edmoore> but i'm not sure you're happy with the definition of a symbol
[11:51] <Jake__> quite possibly not
[11:51] <Vaizki> symbol != character
[11:52] <mattbrejza> you also havnt actually said what your desired throughput is, so everyone is kinda guessing what you actually mean
[11:52] <Jake__> what i really need to know is if its feasible to transmit 600 bps up to 11.5km
[11:52] <mattbrejza> and then are you sending the required bytes as bytes or as characters and so on
[11:52] <edmoore> 600bps at 11.5km is no problem
[11:53] <edmoore> assuming line of sight
[11:53] <mattbrejza> and no fading
[11:53] <edmoore> typical hab setups for transmitter and receiver
[11:53] <edmoore> and so on
[11:54] <Jake__> ok. but and that would be 600baud, if im on RTTY which i confess i dont know if i am
[11:54] <edmoore> yes
[11:55] <edmoore> but you need to figure all this stuff out
[11:55] <edmoore> if you don't know whether or not you're using rtty then you've some research to do, as you probably know
[11:56] <Vaizki> got interested... so if I used olivia 32/1000 for example, apparently the symbol rate is 1000/32 = 31,25 symbols per sec which will carry 32 different values = 5 bits per symbol? so I would get close to 150bps?
[11:57] <Vaizki> and while 31,25 symbols per sec is lower than 50 for basic RTTY @ 50bps, would that olivia signal still be as easily received?
[11:57] <Vaizki> the symbols are oly 31,25Hz apart as well it seems
[11:57] <Vaizki> sorry
[11:57] <Vaizki> tones
[11:57] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:58] <Laurenceb> FMSK gives you more throughput
[11:58] <Jake__> where do i look to understand if im using RTTY?
[11:58] <edmoore> that's not really a question
[11:59] <Vaizki> Laurenceb, but is it as robust?
[11:59] <edmoore> that's like saying where do i look to understand if i'm driving a car
[11:59] <Vaizki> Jake__ is now inside the alien space ship and needs to get flying.. which button dammit! :)
[11:59] <edmoore> like, you've made a flight computer right?
[11:59] <edmoore> what did you program the microcontroller to do?
[11:59] <Laurenceb> Vaizki: for a given link budget, MFSK gives more throughput
[11:59] <Jake__> in the process of sorting that.
[12:00] <Jake__> but i was trying to program 10 bits per symbol
[12:00] <edmoore> right
[12:00] <edmoore> well look
[12:00] <mattbrejza> i think youre approaching this in the wrong order
[12:00] <edmoore> if you were trying to do 10 bits per symbol, you know you're not doing rtty
[12:00] <Vaizki> Laurenceb, ok sure I think I understand link budget but not sure if I have it :)
[12:00] <edmoore> if that sentence doesn't make sense to you then you need to stop
[12:00] <edmoore> and take a step back and try and understand some of this stuff
[12:02] <edmoore> so if you understand the notion of a symbol rather than a bit, and you know what rtty looks like and have written a little rtty transmission program, then i think a lot of this confusion will just evaporate for you
[12:02] <edmoore> as i think you're probably assuming it's all more complicated than it actually is
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[12:05] <Vaizki> so which MFSK mode is considered good for habbing? :)
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[12:06] <Vaizki> olivia and dominoex seems quite a bit more complicated than I initially thought
[12:06] <Vaizki> mfsk16 doesn't look bad but is probably not as robust
[12:08] <edmoore> dominoEX is good
[12:08] <edmoore> thor is good
[12:08] <edmoore> i think if i was making a payload i'd probably do thor
[12:12] <Vaizki> yea I just read that DominoEx has good drift tolerance
[12:12] <Vaizki> so probably good for vhf/uhf
[12:13] <edmoore> thor is dominoEX to which someone's added some FEC
[12:13] <Vaizki> right
[12:13] <fsphil> it has no AFC in fldigi sadly
[12:13] <fsphil> which is a bonus for rtty
[12:14] <Darkside> fsphil: rsid kind of solves that though
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> None of the MFSK modes do but RSID solves that to a large extent
[12:14] <Darkside> snap
[12:14] <Vaizki> umm ok now you got me by the noobness.. what is AFC?
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Automatic Frequency Correction
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> or Control
[12:15] <Vaizki> so basically retuning to stay on the signal?
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yup
[12:15] <fsphil> yea RSID does help if it's a small amount of drift
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> provided it doesn't drift more than the oveall bandwidth your receiving!
[12:16] <Vaizki> well I'm receiving 10MHz but dl-fldigi only gets 3k of it ;)
[12:19] <Vaizki> I'm not sure why dl-fldigi FFT max bandwidth is 4kHz
[12:19] <Vaizki> and yes I'm aware it's not "normal" to do RTTY with a 6k shift, but it did happen to me ;)
[12:23] <gonzo_> the bandwidth is probably limiured to keep the amount of processing down
[12:25] <Vaizki> sure but there are many settings in dl-fldigi that I don't particularly understand why they can't be changed more freely
[12:27] <gonzo_> it was designed for use with AR sets, they are typically using 3kHz bandwidth filtering
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The limit is probably driven by the limits of the type of radio (HF voice) that were first used with Fldigi
[12:27] <gonzo_> snap!
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> we are doing well today!
[12:27] <Vaizki> :)
[12:28] <Vaizki> another one is max waterfall height of 160 pixels
[12:28] <gonzo_> also it's been around for a few years. And processing power was probably more limited when it was foirst created
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes that annoyes me as well :-(
[12:28] <Vaizki> you can change it between 100-160
[12:28] <Vaizki> seems very weird
[12:28] <Vaizki> why not 50-1000 :)
[12:28] <Vaizki> it's just bitmap moving...
[12:28] <gonzo_> not sure if it';s all open source. If you don't klike it, change it
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> but at least I can have almost unlimited in SDR-Console only limited by height of screen!
[12:29] <Vaizki> indeed
[12:29] <Vaizki> and several resolutions
[12:29] <Vaizki> with panadapter and VFO waterfalls separate
[12:35] <Vaizki> I am actually using SDR-Console right now so that the radio is at home and I'm at work.. runs over the internet beautifully with 10MHz of bandwidth from Airspy
[12:35] <Vaizki> 3x VFOs running
[12:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I'm almost considering dedicating a display if not an entire machine to SDR as often have all three devices running on multipile copies
[12:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> two dongles and an Airspy
[12:38] <Vaizki> yea I also have 2 x RTL-DSR (1x R820T + 1x R820T2) and airspy
[12:39] <Vaizki> running on a dedicated cheap windows 8 pc
[12:39] <Vaizki> well cheap.. 400 euros.. but it had a good CPU on it :)
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[12:42] <Vaizki> Lenovo H530s i5-4460/4 Gt/500 Gt/Windows 8.1 64-bit
[12:42] <Vaizki> seems to do the job very well
[12:42] <Vaizki> and the usb keeps up with airspy
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[12:50] <Laurenceb> edmoore: have you ever made CF/Alu sandwich panel?
[12:50] <edmoore> no
[12:50] <edmoore> i believe i have a few though
[12:50] <Laurenceb> I've been making some parts, but I'm not very skilled at this
[12:50] <Laurenceb> wondering if there is some special art to expanding the Alu
[12:51] <Laurenceb> my panels are crazy strong tho
[12:51] <Laurenceb> 220x110x11mm panel, 50 grams
[12:51] <Laurenceb> 0.1mm deflection/Kg
[12:52] <Laurenceb> I also used cheap farnell epoxy :S
[12:52] <Vaizki> 11mm thick sandwich of alu-cf?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> surprised how well it worked
[12:52] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:52] <Vaizki> are you making body armor? :)
[12:52] <Laurenceb> alu honeycomb
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[12:52] <Vaizki> ah ok
[12:53] <Laurenceb> thats why its so light
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[12:54] <Laurenceb> it would help if i knew what shape the unexpanded panels are
[12:55] <Laurenceb> i assumed a square, but now i suspect a rhombus
[12:55] <Laurenceb> guess i could work it out from first principled, i have a video of the assembly line in action
[12:56] <Babs____> Rhombus
[12:56] <edmoore> http://runningahackerspace.tumblr.com/post/113094580634/the-documentation-is-on-the-wiki
[12:56] <Laurenceb> i distorted some of the cells trying to expand as a square :-/
[12:56] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:56] <Laurenceb> thanks
[12:57] <Laurenceb> this makes a lot more sense now :D
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[12:59] <Babs____> Hix - it's been a while
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[13:15] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/09/quantum_computers_fail/
[13:15] <Laurenceb> wtf did i just read
[13:15] <Laurenceb> this guy should stick to timecube
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[13:17] <Laurenceb> if its not the same person writing...
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[14:06] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[14:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrjHeT _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrjHeT%20_chase
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrjHeT_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrjHeT_chase
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[14:29] <Vaizki> well my miniwhip is in the post office.. apparently been there for a month!
[14:30] <Vaizki> the postal service here is nice, they send one (1) notice that you have a package waiting. except I don't always get that.
[14:30] <Vaizki> if I don't pick it up, gets sent back to sender.
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[14:51] <infaddict> go get it quick!
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[14:56] <Vaizki> infaddict, well I called them and they were already sending it back today, I just saved it...
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[14:57] <infaddict> phew great
[14:57] <Vaizki> the miniwhip is not useful for habbing but I want to see what's up on HF also to practise decoding digital modes
[14:57] <infaddict> in other news, i added SD card back onto the new breadboard today and it works fine. So it was the old breadboard causing all my worries.
[14:58] <infaddict> not sure if i was getting interference or dry joints or something else, but the new breadboard has cured everything
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[14:58] <pc1pcl> Vaizki: here we have I think 4 different postal delivery companies, with also differences between letters/packages and of course sometimes it is not clear if something is a small package or a (thick) letter.
[14:59] <Vaizki> here we have a service where you can have your packages automatically redirected to a self service pickup locker
[14:59] <pc1pcl> infaddict: still might be worth checking if there's no resources used by the sdcard library that you (want to) use for your rtty, e.g. a counter/interruptthey secretly share.
[14:59] <Vaizki> and they send you an SMS with pin code when a package arrives
[15:00] <Vaizki> well I have had that service for almost a year
[15:00] <Vaizki> ZERO packages have been redirected there :)
[15:00] <infaddict> pc1pcl: i scanned the sdfat.cpp and child libraries i could see it using and couldnt find any timers or ISR's or register type stuff. agree its worth double checking.
[15:01] <pc1pcl> Vaizki: seems very useful, often here I end p coming home on Friday to find a card with 'You were not in, we will ring again next Monday, and if you're not home, THEN we'll drop it off at some office to pick it up'.
[15:01] <pc1pcl> but of course if it doesn't get used, then you're no better off ;)
[15:01] <Vaizki> well the self service pickup works great for domestic post
[15:02] <Vaizki> all the 'net sellers offer direct delivery to them
[15:02] <Vaizki> so I choose the one in the lobby of my grocery store and often it's there at 1pm the next day
[15:02] <Vaizki> and I get the SMS pin code
[15:02] <Vaizki> so I can give it to my wife if I can't make it myself
[15:03] <Vaizki> but from abroad it seems utterly impossible to get anything there
[15:04] <pc1pcl> luckily my neighbours are all okay, and usually the delivery guys just want to get rid of the package asap, as coming back just eats into their bottom line, so luckily most of the time the card reads 'delivered at <random neighbour's housenumber>' (of course occasionally we get the packages for the neightbours too)
[15:04] <pc1pcl> but that would suck if you have 'issues' with the neighbours..
[15:05] <pc1pcl> infaddict: wouldn't be surprised if the sdcard stuff would e.g. turn off interrupts to make sure it can write what it wants to the card 'safely'
[15:06] <infaddict> i'm now scanning all the sdfat source for the following words: timer, TCCR, ISR, OCR, sei, cli. anything else i should look for?
[15:07] <pc1pcl> "// turn off interrupts" ?
[15:08] <pc1pcl> but probably you'd have caught that with the 'cli'..
[15:09] <Vaizki> I once had a package worth 1.2k euros that was left in the snow outside my door
[15:09] <pc1pcl> anyway, seems like you're now at the point where you let it run down a complete battery to a) see how long it works (max, as probably ideal circumstances) and b) what goes wrong (overflowing counters etc.)
[15:09] <Vaizki> I didn't come home for 3 days
[15:09] <Vaizki> at which time it was buried
[15:10] <infaddict> pc1pcl: ok finished scans. some false positives but no mention of anything timer/interrupt related that I can find. phew.
[15:10] <infaddict> yep i have a fresh set of energizers so plan to leave it running (with SD logging) and see when it runs out of juice (i predict 25 hours)
[15:11] <infaddict> i have also written a test harness which simulates bounds testing (e.g. from -180 to +180 and -90 to +90 lat long, and -xxx to +xxxxx altitude etc)
[15:11] <infaddict> it rattles through all possible combinations pretty quickly in the main loop
[15:12] <Vaizki> make it run sinewaves through the globe or something..
[15:12] <infaddict> yep thats kinda what it does
[15:12] <pc1pcl> also try some 'impossible' values like '181'
[15:12] <Vaizki> so you can put it on google maps and see if it's a nice smooth continuous line
[15:12] <pc1pcl> or 'F' instead of 'E'/'W'
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[15:17] <infaddict> i think the remainder of my testing (freezer test, longer distance tx/rx, bash it around a bit) can only happen when I'm at PCB stage and have payload ready.
[15:18] <infaddict> do most guys here use hackvana for pcb's?
[15:19] <edmoore> no
[15:19] <edmoore> actually i don't know the answer to that question
[15:19] <edmoore> but i don't
[15:19] <adamgreig> doubt it. we all use a lot of different PCB places
[15:19] <edmoore> i did, and now I don't, and the decision was concious
[15:19] <adamgreig> depends on the specific job really
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[15:21] <infaddict> mmm the UK houses seem to be fairly pricey. found a good one in europe (euro circuits) but quite expensive too.
[15:22] <infaddict> and i dont need a joblot of 10 pcb's. really only want 1 or 2 of this first design.
[15:22] <infaddict> its tiny (5cm x 6cm)
[15:22] <adamgreig> hackvana is probably not a bad shout for that, but you mgiht also consider dirtypcbs.com
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[15:23] <adamgreig> depends if you want to pay, or you want them quickly, or you want good quality (assurance), or what
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[15:23] <edmoore> or if you want a stencil
[15:23] <edmoore> some throw in a free stainless stencil
[15:23] <infaddict> ooh
[15:23] <infaddict> nice
[15:23] <adamgreig> tho dirty do actually do stencils pretty cheap, even framed
[15:23] <infaddict> ;-/
[15:24] <edmoore> you probably don't want framed
[15:25] <edmoore> for a hand-application of paste
[15:25] <infaddict> as an example, eurocircuits was around 40 euros for 2 boards. hackvana was around $25 for 10!
[15:25] <infaddict> i'm sry to say i dont even know what "framed" means guys
[15:25] <edmoore> but it's £10 difference, and you might not want the other 8, and euro might be a lot quicker to turn around
[15:25] <edmoore> framed is for paste application machines
[15:25] <edmoore> stencil sits in a rigid frame that gets mounted in a machine
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[15:26] <edmoore> here is how you can do paste with a stencil https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/sets/72157629174453806/
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[15:27] <edmoore> i actually use a different product now for clamping the pcb down and holding the stencil
[15:27] <edmoore> but you might not want to spend the £££ for that with low volumes
[15:29] <pidpawel> nice one! :)
[15:30] <Babs____> edmoore: in the absence of a jazzy oven of the type you would have, soldering iron and paste, soldering iron and solder, or paste and a hot air gun - name your weapon of choice
[15:31] <edmoore> jazzy oven was £25 from argos
[15:31] <edmoore> i wouldn;t do any electronics without a good soldering iron, so if i could only have one thing it'd be an iron
[15:32] <Babs____> I have an ok one
[15:32] <edmoore> iron and paste is a disaster btw - it would be iron and solder
[15:32] <Babs____> Temp controlled etc.
[15:32] <edmoore> yeah, so long as it's temp controlled
[15:32] <Babs____> I've done a ublox on it before
[15:32] <edmoore> you'll be fine
[15:32] <Babs____> The atmega looks a bit more teeny tiny
[15:32] <edmoore> it's just slower
[15:32] <edmoore> but you can get good results fine
[15:33] <Babs____> I tell you what I have just bought though which is amazing
[15:33] <edmoore> i make a sufficient qty of pcb prototypes that the oven is a godsend
[15:33] <edmoore> tell me
[15:33] <Babs____> Apexel 65x LED UV Mini Microscope Jewellery Magnifier Glass Lens with Back Case for iPho... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ON3Y0K6/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_i7W.ub1JCJRE4
[15:34] <Babs____> Very good for checking connections based on the detail it is picking up of my various desk detritus
[15:35] <edmoore> that looks fun :)
[15:35] <edmoore> oh a good pair of tweezers for any of this is important too
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[15:37] <Babs____> Regard the detail on a now effectively worthless 50 euro note
[15:38] <Babs____> https://www.flickr.com/gp/91049302@N00/xY17A6
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[15:38] <Babs____> I've got a bunch of those tweezers, only to give them to the wife to show her that a decent pair need not cost 30 pounds
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[15:45] <AdamDynamic> On the Pi In The Sky telemetry board, can anyone confirm which of the two brass sockets the GPS antenna should be connected to? (The website seems to have conflicting instructions)
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[15:47] <UpuWork> conflicting ?
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[15:47] <UpuWork> its the one with the GPS module next to it AdamDynamic (UBLOX)
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[15:47] <UpuWork> can you link me what conflicts ?
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[15:48] <AdamDynamic> This page says the socket closest to the white power socket: http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=sd-card-image-from-scratch
[15:48] <AdamDynamic> The image shows the one furthest away http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=board-connections
[15:48] <UpuWork> ping daveake
[15:48] <AdamDynamic> I think the first link (the instructions) haven't been updated for the new board (the sockets seem to have reversed, looking at the two images on the second page)
[15:49] <UpuWork> old board
[15:49] <UpuWork> sorry
[15:49] <UpuWork> http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/data/uploads/pits2.jpg <- use this one
[15:49] <UpuWork> could do with fixing the text daveake
[15:49] <daveake> ok
[15:50] <AdamDynamic> Ok great, thanks for the help guys (Just about to fire up the board, fingers crossed...)
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[15:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrjHeT - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrjHeT
[16:09] <edmoore> no word yet from AdamDynamic...
[16:09] <edmoore> maybe it exploded and took him with it?
[16:09] <infaddict> you should never cross the beams
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[16:09] <infaddict> especially where GPS and UHF aerials are concerned!
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> daveake, Any likely LoRa flights before the 20th ?
[16:12] <AdamDynamic> I'm delighted to say that the PITS board appears to be working :)
[16:13] <AdamDynamic> Periodic pictures appearing on the screen and a steady stream of activity in the command window
[16:13] <UpuWork> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[16:14] <AdamDynamic> And what I interpret as the GPS coordinates in the string bullseyes the roof of my house on google maps
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> AdamDynamic: Coincidence!
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:15] <edmoore> it's tracking you
[16:15] <edmoore> stamp on it
[16:15] <AdamDynamic> I didn't realise that the images would be beamed live to the internet (good thing I'm wearing trousers...)
[16:16] <AdamDynamic> Couple of questions: how do I turn it off?
[16:16] <edmoore> hammer
[16:16] <daveake> +1
[16:16] <daveake> then buy another board
[16:16] <AdamDynamic> And if I'd like to use it again?.. :)
[16:16] <edmoore> the way you turned it on but in reverse
[16:17] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap nothing planned
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> OK just not had the chance to test the LoRa board before !
[16:18] <UpuWork> Just remove the power AdamDynamic
[16:18] <AdamDynamic> And am I correct in thinking that it will start up automatically (and start transmitting etc) as soon as I start it up again?
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Do you use a Habamp with yours or has it aenough gain on its own ?
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[16:18] <UpuWork> yes AdamDynamic
[16:18] <UpuWork> try it
[16:19] <UpuWork> you should see normal boot
[16:19] <UpuWork> then the red LED on the pits should illuminate
[16:19] <UpuWork> when its got a lock and is generally happy it will blink green
[16:19] <UpuWork> unless you're up a 1.5km mountain
[16:19] <UpuWork> in which case the LED's will turn off
[16:19] <AdamDynamic> (It sounds like an obvious question, but I have another raspberry Pi that I run as a web server and just 'turning it off' has corrupted the SD card at least once)
[16:19] <edmoore> that's fun
[16:20] <UpuWork> can happen yes
[16:20] <edmoore> (the mountain thing, not the corrupted sd card)
[16:20] <UpuWork> but generally the pits board doesn't write much to the SD so the chances are minimal
[16:20] <AdamDynamic> Ok, I'll continue to mess around with it. Thanks all!
[16:24] <daveake> I don't bother, but if you want you could wait for it to take a phoot (the camera LED will light), wait till the LED goes out, wait 5 more seconds for the file to save (it doesn't take that long, but best be safe) then switch off
[16:24] <daveake> Of if you have a display/keyboard plugged in, or an ssh session, do "sudo halt"
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[16:28] <edmoore> is halt the same thing as shutdown -h now
[16:28] <edmoore> ?
[16:29] <edmoore> i could just look this up, sorry
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[16:32] <adamgreig> my "software engineering" students were told today that "merging in version control is a pain so you should just commit to master"
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[16:33] <adamgreig> sigh.
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[16:34] <edmoore> Gee?
[16:35] <daveake> edmoore yes
[16:35] <UpuWork> its ok edmoore you are allowed to be human occasionally
[16:35] <adamgreig> no, punskaya
[16:36] <edmoore> in soviet russia...
[16:37] <Babs_____> Isn't soviet russia the USSR?
[16:38] <dbrooke> adamgreig: they use CVS still?
[16:38] <adamgreig> I dread to think. they were presumably being lectured about version control systems in general
[16:40] <dbrooke> well CVS merges could be painful but things have moved on ...
[16:41] <adamgreig> even svn merge is pretty terrible
[16:43] <dbrooke> never really used SVN, went from CVS to git
[16:43] <adamgreig> you didn't miss much
[16:44] <dbrooke> good to know 8-)
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[16:47] <AdamDynamic> I've shut down my PITS and restarted it - I'm just getting a solid red light on the board, the camera still appears to work but there is no activity in the command window?
[16:47] <AdamDynamic> I've tried restarting it a couple of times
[16:48] <daveake> "No activity in command window" means what, exactly?
[16:48] <daveake> I'm guessing you actually mean "I see the Linux boot messages then the screen clears"
[16:48] <AdamDynamic> I expected to see scrolling activity as I saw when I first tested it
[16:48] <daveake> When you turn it on, does the monitor display anything?
[16:49] <AdamDynamic> Yes, the gui appears as normal
[16:49] <AdamDynamic> The camera images are still flashing up every 5 seconds
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[16:49] <daveake> Not entirely sure why you want a gui for a balloon
[16:49] <AdamDynamic> It's just for the setup etc
[16:49] <daveake> Still don't need a gui
[16:50] <daveake> If you're using an old copy of the software, the video output gets turned off by default
[16:50] <daveake> This is to save power
[16:50] <daveake> On recent versions it's enabled by default
[16:50] <AdamDynamic> Could the gui be interfering with the board?
[16:50] <daveake> No
[16:51] <AdamDynamic> I've re-run ./startup from the pits/tracker folder
[16:51] <daveake> why?
[16:51] <AdamDynamic> Not sure what else to try?
[16:51] <daveake> and how did you do that with the monitor off?
[16:51] <AdamDynamic> I'm getting 'bad checksum' messages
[16:51] <daveake> slow down
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[16:51] <daveake> read what I said
[16:51] <daveake> Running 2 copies isn't going to work
[16:52] <daveake> The monitor is off because the s/w turns it off
[16:52] <daveake> http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=configuration
[16:54] <AdamDynamic> Ah, so I shouldn't expect to see the same scrolling text that I saw when I ran the 'testing' section here: http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=sd-card-image-from-scratch
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[16:55] <daveake> Not if you have disable_monitor=Y in /boot/pisky.txt
[16:55] <daveake> You won't see anything then
[16:55] <daveake> and if you have a GUI you won't see it either
[16:56] <AdamDynamic> I have disable_monitor=N in pisky.txt
[16:56] <daveake> The step-by-step instructions don't tell you to enable the GUI, for the very good reason that it's not needed
[16:56] <daveake> and if you have a gui then you can't see the terminal window
[16:56] <AdamDynamic> I have the terminal open in the GUI
[16:56] <daveake> No you don't
[16:57] <daveake> you have *a* terminal open
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[16:57] <daveake> you can have lots of them but none will show the tracker output
[16:57] <daveake> So, disable the gui
[16:58] <AdamDynamic> Will the fact that I ran the installation steps inside the GUI terminal be the issue?
[16:58] <daveake> No the fact that you're using a gui now is the issue
[16:58] <AdamDynamic> Is it worth repeating the steps once I've disabled the gui?
[16:58] <AdamDynamic> (the installation steps)
[16:58] <daveake> no
[16:59] <daveake> Everything is ok except the gui is hiding the output
[16:59] <daveake> and the red led is just while it waits for a lock
[16:59] <AdamDynamic> The red light has been on for a while (~10 mins)
[17:00] <AdamDynamic> I'm right next to a window and it worked almost right away when I ran the test script
[17:00] <daveake> which could be many reasons
[17:00] <daveake> Disable the gui
[17:00] <daveake> have you had the green light flashing at all yet?
[17:00] <AdamDynamic> Ok, rebooting...
[17:01] <AdamDynamic> The green light was flashing when I first completed the install and ran the prompts in the 'testing' section of the install page
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[17:01] <AdamDynamic> Since then it's only been red
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[17:07] <AdamDynamic> Aha, I have a green light! Not sure what I changed (apart from disabling the GUI), thanks for the help though daveake :)
[17:07] <daveake> cool
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[17:14] <daveake> !AdamStatic
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[17:35] <PeteBlackerThe3r> Hi everyone. I have a quick question about the gps antennas on habsupplies
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[17:36] <dario111cro> hi all! Which materials do you guys use for insulation (both thermal and mechanical protection) for your projects?
[17:37] <daveake> Extruded (better, in my opinion) or expanded foam polystyrene
[17:37] <PeteBlackerThe3r> I was wondering what the difference in gain and directionality were between the taoglas ceramic patch and the smd chip antennas?
[17:38] <daveake> ping Upu/Upuwork ^^
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[17:38] <dario111cro> Do you order cusom shaped extruded polystyrene?
[17:39] <mattbrejza> i think the taoglas one is gps+glonass, while the chip one isnt? (having said that it can sstill pick up glonass)
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> dario111cro: lol
[17:40] <dario111cro> sorry, quite new to this :)
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> dario111cro: custom extruded polystyrene would have _insane_ cots
[17:40] <daveake> comes in sheets
[17:40] <PeteBlackerThe3r> Ahh. Okay different frequency range then?
[17:40] <daveake> cut with sharp knife
[17:40] <daveake> glue with Uhu Por
[17:40] <Babs____> You can mill it
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polystyrene-Foam-Mug-Cup-Packaging-Mailer-Mailing-Boxes-60-100-120-200-260-300-/131137458342?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item1e8866d0a6 - for example is a reasonable one
[17:40] <mattbrejza> PeteBlackerThe3r: check the datasheets
[17:40] <Babs____> For added coolness at added expense
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> and other suitable containers canbe found.
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[17:40] <daveake> Hobbycraft sell some expanded foam balls/eggs/boxes
[17:40] <mattbrejza> the taoglas one might be active too, this is just from memory
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[17:44] <dario111cro> thank you all
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[18:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
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[19:01] <storm_> hi all
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[19:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPICDX1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPICDX1
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[19:35] <jededu_> Can anybody see anything wrong with this string Dl-Fldige recognise it $$EDUPICDX1,64,19:33:14,5232.31915,-00152.68784,06,124.2,25.75,1.44*2277
[19:36] <jededu_> And several others
[19:38] <Vaizki> depends on your payload doc?
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[19:38] <Vaizki> or maybe I didn't understand the question.. what are you asking?
[19:39] <jededu_> No it parses one string then seems to ignore others that look perfectly ok no errors it just misses them
[19:40] <Vaizki> I think it's weird that you have longitude with 5 digits -00152
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[19:41] <Vaizki> so it's not saying that the checksum doesn't match or anything?
[19:41] <Vaizki> just ignored them?
[19:41] <jededu_> No nothing it just ingores them
[19:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are they logged on th dl-fldigi screen
[19:42] <jededu_> Yes very odd
[19:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> no error message on the status line when there uploaded ?
[19:42] <jededu_> It doesent attempt to up load them
[19:42] <SA6BSS> rebooted computer :)
[19:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah so no success message from upload then ?
[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> So its dl-fldigi not sending them ?
[19:44] <jededu_> No just not sending but its random
[19:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> restart dl-fldigi ?
[19:45] <jededu_> Yes tried :)
[19:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can you screen grab dl-fldigi with a mix of them in the log ?
[19:46] <Vaizki> are you sure you're getting a $$ for each?
[19:46] <Vaizki> it might ignore them if it doesn't get to "sync" to the start of a sentence
[19:46] <jededu_> Will do yes I have plenty of $$
[19:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> first 4 appearing on the logtail
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> 5
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> 6
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> 7
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> how often is it failing ?
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[19:49] <jededu_> Ah seem to have rectified it I had to use CHR$(13) twice at the end
[19:49] <jededu_> of the string
[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Odd ?
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[19:51] <jededu_> mgur.com/CtHpQd1
[19:51] <jededu_> Worked tho
[19:52] <jededu_> http://imgur.com/CtHpQd1
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[20:09] <Vaizki> well that might work but it's still a waste of radio spectrum...
[20:10] <Vaizki> oh ok you're doing dominoex16?
[20:10] <Vaizki> I have no idea how dl-fldigi was patched to support that
[20:11] <jededu_> Yes its a quick fix for now flying tomorrow :)
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[20:12] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[20:16] <Vaizki> so does dominoex have blocks like olivia? I guess not
[20:17] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[20:18] <jededu_> I havent worked on olivia yet im on THOR at the moment i think its similar
[20:18] <Vaizki> if you are using thor why is your dl-fldigi set to dominoex?
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[20:20] <jededu_> No DominoEX is current and working im coding THOR
[20:20] <jededu_> In BASIC
[20:20] <daveake> I ought to learn this BASIC thing, sounds awesome :)
[20:21] <Vaizki> and try using USB for the dl-flidigi "receive mode" instead of RTTY in your screenshot
[20:21] <jededu_> Lol i know your opinion daveake
[20:22] <Vaizki> we really need MCUs that do delphi
[20:22] <daveake> The Pi can probably do Lazarus
[20:22] <daveake> But no, I quote BASIC about 35 years ago no intention of going back
[20:22] <daveake> quit
[20:23] <daveake> Did do some VB once but managed to esdcape
[20:23] <Vaizki> I split my time between python, c and assembly (in that order)
[20:24] <jededu_> I have started looking into assembly tho
[20:25] <daveake> I wrote a lot of assembler originally, but these days there's not much need for it
[20:26] <Vaizki> well I tried to do some stuff for BBB PRUs which is why I have been doing it
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[20:27] <Vaizki> but I am probably going to just forget it for now :)
[20:27] <daveake> Ah yeah those seem neat
[20:27] <daveake> Shame the Pi doesn't have them
[20:27] <daveake> Write your own UART (for example)
[20:27] <Vaizki> maybe because the Pi is cobbled together from cheap and cheap
[20:27] <Vaizki> yes you can bitbang like there's no tomorrow from the PRUs
[20:28] <Vaizki> 200MHz with every instruction taking 1 cycle, also easy to time things.. just count the lines of assembly :)
[20:28] <daveake> I have an FPGA Pi board here but bugger knows when I'll get time to play with it
[20:29] <mfa298> the Pi would be the way to go back to BASIC as it's roughly a decendant of the Acorn and BBC BASIC (possibly one of the better forms of BASIC if such a thing exists)
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[20:58] <fsphil> bbc basic was the first programming language I ever used
[20:58] <tweetBot> @daveake: Self-contained LoRa tracking station - Pi, LoRa HAT, WiFi, Power Bank, HABAmp, Splitter in a foam-filled case. #UKHAS http://t.co/x6GZuJT6Im
[21:00] <daveake> Many people's first computer was made by Fischer-Price
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[21:13] <Babs__> evening - i am trying to draw a custom non square outline for my board in eagle. I go draw>dimension and then select the polygon tool and set it to width zero. i've then drawn the outline of the board but on completion it colours in my polygon white. does this sound familiar?
[21:14] <goopypanther> ah, don't use the polygon tool for board outlilnes
[21:15] <Babs__> what is the best method?
[21:15] <goopypanther> its really meant for defining copper pours or regions in the silkscreen/restrict layers
[21:15] <goopypanther> use the draw line tool on the dimension layer with 0 width
[21:16] <goopypanther> circle and arc are fine too.
[21:17] <Babs__> where are they located?
[21:17] <goopypanther> they're on the left menu bar for me, right above the polygon and rectangle tool
[21:18] <goopypanther> or draw>wire I think?
[21:18] <Babs__> got it thanks
[21:18] <goopypanther> I have no idea why they would design the tool with two different names
[21:18] <Babs__> the whole system is counter intuitive most of the time
[21:21] <goopypanther> yeah eagle is one of the most simple schematic capture systems I've seen but it is in no way consistant or intuitive
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[21:24] <Reb-SM0ULC> evening
[21:24] <goopypanther> and then on the other end of the spectrum there's DxDesigner which is amazingly powerful and well designed but you can't create your first project without following a 15 page instruction sheet
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[21:25] <jededu> EDUPICDX1 Launch tomorrow is on 434.650 DomonoEX-16 @ about 09:30
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Will be listening
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh 434.650 or 434.275 as on the flight doc ?
[21:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> or is it both modes rtty on 434.275 ?
[21:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> jededu, ^^^
[21:32] <jededu> It was .075 on the flight doc but for some reason i cant pull the pins to change freq so .650 it is
[21:33] <jededu> DominoEX only I might do both next time
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[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah OK its the payload that says 434.275 RTTY 100Baud
[21:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> so 434.650 DOmEx16 it is
[21:34] <jededu> Does it ill get it right one day
[21:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> helps I'm mostly asleep in the ornings ;-)
[21:36] <jededu> Where did you find that info Geoff-G8DH
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[21:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its on the iCal output which is what I first look at as its all over my desktop ;-)
[21:37] <jededu> !payload EDUPICDX1
[21:37] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPICDX1 10(c1d9) 03$$EDUPICDX1 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.275 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/380Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[21:39] <jededu> !payload EDUPICDX1
[21:39] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPICDX1 10(c1d9) 03$$EDUPICDX1 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.275 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/380Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[21:40] <jededu> So once its approved I cant edit it :/
[21:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope its locked in ..
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[21:56] <Upu> only the frequency thats changed jededu ?
[21:56] <jededu> No the ref to RTTY also
[21:57] <jededu> DominoEX16 434.650
[21:57] <Upu> there is no Domino anyway
[21:57] <Upu> oh wait
[21:57] <Upu> no thor
[21:57] <Upu> people will get it don't worry
[21:58] <jededu> Hope so :)
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[22:07] <jededu> !payload EDUPICDX1
[22:07] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPICDX1 10(c1d9) 03$$EDUPICDX1 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.275 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/380Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[22:09] <axd> hello, good bye
[22:09] <Vaizki> welcome, bienvenue
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[22:13] <jededu> !payload EDUPICDX1
[22:13] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPICDX1 10(c1d9) 03$$EDUPICDX1 - 03DominoEX-16 Only - 03434.65 MHz USB 03DominoEX with speed 0316
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[22:34] <storm_> hi guys, I just finished a short writeup on antenna tuning: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:storm:antenna
[22:34] <storm_> might be interesting to some
[22:35] <storm_> also if there are any ham operators or rf people, you might be able to give some ideas for improvement
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[22:48] <mfa298> storm_: interesting way of doing it and a decent write up (at least for someone that understands whats happening)
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[22:50] <storm_> mfa298: thanks :), now I am asking myself if the antenna is actually any good, sort of hard to judge without any reference for comparison
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[22:52] <mfa298> well the antenna should be as good at receiving as it is at transmitting so trying to hear distant signals at around 434 MHz may give some idea of it's performance
[22:53] <mfa298> although you'llalso be limited by it's location and the reciever
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[22:53] <storm_> nice idea, I will try that when the next launches pass nearby
[22:54] <mfa298> with your comment about bandwidth note that the Y scale changes on the plots which will impact the shape
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[22:57] <mfa298> the other thing that will impact how well it works is how well matched it is to the transmitter in terms of impedance but thats might be harder to measure easily
[22:58] <storm_> I was surprised not to see a choke in the antenna tutorial...
[22:58] <storm_> on the bandwith: I will have to do a proper compensation for the output spectrum of the noise generator, so this was realy just a quick remark
[22:59] <storm_> only conducted the measurements today
[22:59] <mfa298> for such low power and short coax run a choke may not have much benefit
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG7IXX-11 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7IXX-11
[23:01] <storm_> ok good to know, what other methods are available to match the impedance? the angle of the radials?
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[23:02] <mfa298> I believe angle of radials will have an impact. from what others have said if they're 45 degrees below (i.e. going into the box) that makes the impedance nearer 50 ohms
[23:03] <mfa298> although actual loss will probably not be much higher with them as they are
[23:03] <navrac_2E0VKK> whs
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[00:00] --- Wed Mar 11 2015