highaltitude.log.20150304

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[00:10] <Ian__> domojn so which symbol was it?
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[00:25] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: nice to see you...! :)
[00:26] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: i m feeling lucky tonight!
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[00:52] <Ian__> Right, good evening BUE_OSJ . The filter bandwidth is per tone and so a figure there of 50Hz is good. I was helped during the day.
[00:53] <Ian__> The main problem seems to have been the quality of the receive signal which I would expect to see a splash of red, yellow, blue and black upon.
[00:53] <Ian__> Como estas?
[00:56] <Ian__> Tip, for images to share with IRC members can you post them to imagur.com and post the link here. It puts the current image in the right place in the conversation and allows others to follow it later on. and is more convenient to not have to scroll around a lot.
[00:56] <Ian__> So, how lucky have you been with your SDR so far today BUE_OSJ ?
[01:04] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: thanks... great app imgur... since a long time that i ve been searching something like that.
[01:04] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: i printed fldigi begginers guide
[01:04] <BUE_OSJ> i take this picture
[01:04] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/9ro1H8H
[01:06] <Ian__> The image is good. = = = for code examples (much later on) you might like pastebin.com
[01:07] <BUE_OSJ> i made an ajustment: http://imgur.com/ZDw2y76
[01:08] <BUE_OSJ> yes that pastebin is great i use it once thanks for the recomendation
[01:09] <Ian__> OK, slightly better I see something at 1660Hz but it is still fairly weak. What are you transmitting? I ask because I see only vestiges of one tone on the waterfall
[01:09] <Ian__> Much easier to follow picture at a time though :)
[01:10] <BUE_OSJ> i m transmitting ascii code
[01:10] <BUE_OSJ> latitude, longitude
[01:11] <Ian__> OK, just getting an idea, can you improve the signal to noise further?
[01:12] <Ian__> Turn the wick up on the receiver.
[01:12] <BUE_OSJ> something like this: http://imgur.com/jt4c6cN
[01:13] <Ian__> Hmmm, I didn't see the image that time, can you post it again please.
[01:13] <BUE_OSJ> there? http://i.imgur.com/jt4c6cN.png
[01:14] <Ian__> Now I see what happened with the link je je je.
[01:15] <BUE_OSJ> why? i need some kind of configuration for that?
[01:15] <Ian__> Maybe not . . . check the link. The first two pictures were good.
[01:15] <Ian__> Not sure what is going wrong.
[01:15] <BUE_OSJ> ahh ok. which is the wick up?
[01:16] <Ian__> Ah, turn up the wick - the RF or Audio gain. = = = oil lamps have a wick and if you turn up the wick they get brighter. Lo siento.
[01:17] <Ian__> I'm looking for a better defined signal which shows two clear tones on the fldigi waterfall.
[01:17] <BUE_OSJ> ahhh ok
[01:18] <Ian__> The last link http://i.imgur.com/jt4c6cN.png didn't come out properly - look for yourself
[01:20] <BUE_OSJ> je i cut it because it was a latitud and longitude but it s ok i ll post all de raspberry screen
[01:21] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/vmsVhKK
[01:21] <BUE_OSJ> the console lines it s what i m transmitting
[01:23] <Ian__> Rgr, I see that, but the fldigi waterfall indicates that the signal it is receiving isn't very strong. I expect to see more yellow and red in the waterfall
[01:24] <BUE_OSJ> ahh ok i ll see in the SDR Sharp
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[01:24] <Ian__> When I asked what you were transmitting, I was checking to ensure that you weren't radiating a pattern that was predominantly one tone.
[01:25] <BUE_OSJ> ahhh
[01:26] <Ian__> Good, I'm not sure if it is AF gain or RF gain that you need to adjust, but whichever gives the better defined fldigi waterfall picture. Twiddle away BUE_OSJ and give me a look see when you think you are getting a better balance
[01:27] <BUE_OSJ> ok i ll try that right now
[01:28] <Ian__> RTTY 50 is the mode for 50 Baud RTTY in fldigi
[01:30] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/bp5HObx
[01:30] <BUE_OSJ> yes i m on RTTY 50
[01:30] <BUE_OSJ> it seems to be right?
[01:33] <Ian__> OK and 2 stop bits, but that isn't important just now. How are we doing with the signal from SDR#? have we got a better waterfall image on fldigi yet?
[01:35] <BUE_OSJ> mmm no :(
[01:36] <BUE_OSJ> but i m trying... if I put a wider band width? what do you think?
[01:39] <Ian__> It seems to be a signal level problem at the moment.
[01:39] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/bMLjBQH
[01:40] <BUE_OSJ> the receiver is too close
[01:40] <BUE_OSJ> no more than 2 meters away from the transmissor
[01:41] <Ian__> Wow, a bit too strong now maybe. whatever you did, turn it down just a little. Maybe move it a little further away if you can.
[01:41] <Ian__> Too close and it's like trying to understand someone that is shouting into your ear. Blowing your mind away :)
[01:42] <Ian__> Ah, of course I'm not looking at the fldigi waterfall.
[01:42] <Ian__> That's the one that matters.
[01:43] <BUE_OSJ> ahh ok it s like a light in front of our eyes that don t let as see
[01:43] <BUE_OSJ> on my fldigi waterfall there is no red :S
[01:48] <Ian__> In this one, there was a little, but not enough http://imgur.com/ZDw2y76
[01:49] <Ian__> The delay is being caused because i am trying to sort out my wife and her tablet computer . . .
[01:50] <Ian__> How does SDR# talk to fldigi? is there a mixer involved where the levels can be adjusted perhaps?
[01:51] <Ian__> We must be missing something.
[01:55] <Ian__> Do you have an antenna on tx and rx?
[01:57] <BUE_OSJ> sorry i was playing with that signal
[01:57] <Ian__> Any improvement?
[01:57] <BUE_OSJ> i have this
[01:57] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/fhbUrGe
[01:58] <BUE_OSJ> The delay is being caused because i am trying to sort out my wife and her tablet computer : jajajja
[01:59] <BUE_OSJ> it talks via a configuration device on windows
[01:59] <BUE_OSJ> i put an isdb-tv as a microphone (an input device)
[02:00] <BUE_OSJ> there that virtual input device says to sdr what to hear
[02:00] <BUE_OSJ> and after that with fldigi i try to decode
[02:00] <Ian__> OK, Love Windows . . . The DVB-T dongle you mean, I assume.
[02:02] <Ian__> The problem that I see with the fldigi display is that it only sees in your last image, the possibility of one tone and it's harmonic sidebands. The inference is that either there is very little /
[02:02] <BUE_OSJ> yes that one... i also love linux but... after work and university i get lazy .
[02:03] <Ian__> signal. Can you hear the signal from SDR# warble, warble? Do you know what a 50 Baud telegraph signal should sound like ? I'll find an example.
[02:03] <BUE_OSJ> ahhhh
[02:04] <BUE_OSJ> i here it noisy,,,, i ll try tu record
[02:06] <Ian__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioteletype listen to the sample RTTY transmission under "Media" close to the end of the page.
[02:07] <Ian__> That is a 50 Baud RTTY signal and shoud sound characteristically similar.
[02:09] <Ian__> I guess that if you are working and going to University it explains why you arrive here so late ART time.
[02:10] <Ian__> 2310ART is 0210GMT/UTC
[02:12] <Ian__> What are you studying at Uni?
[02:12] <BUE_OSJ> jjajaajaa... yes it sound familiar... but here it sounds like faster and noisy
[02:13] <BUE_OSJ> i m studying computer engineering
[02:14] <Ian__> In the PISKY setup software is it 50 Baud? We'll worry about that once we get a good solid sounding signal from the receive. It shouldn't sound noisy /
[02:14] <Ian__> You have antenna on tx and rx?
[02:14] <BUE_OSJ> but I think I'll go through an intermediate bachelor's degree in systems
[02:15] <BUE_OSJ> yes it s on 50 boud but i ll check again
[02:15] <BUE_OSJ> how can i check if it is tx or rx?
[02:15] <Ian__> Good on the course. It suddenly becomes a very wide subject area. Computers, embracing systems and radio.
[02:16] <Ian__> How can you check the telegraph speed? if it sounds twice as fast as the example, then it may not be 50 Baud. If it sound 50 Baud it probably is . . .
[02:16] Action: Ian__ holds wet finger in the wind
[02:17] <BUE_OSJ> jajaja... so may be it s more than 50 bauds
[02:17] <Ian__> The mistake I made yesterday, other than the tone filter bandwidth, was that we haven't yet got a solid signal to decode.
[02:18] <Ian__> Once we have a solid signal, then we can chase down the other permutations.
[02:18] <Ian__> Without a good signal we are chasing our tails.
[02:19] <BUE_OSJ> ahhh ok first we ll need to get those red lines
[02:19] <BUE_OSJ> ?
[02:19] <Ian__> Antennas on PISKY tx and DVB_T dongle rx?
[02:19] <Ian__> I'll look for an example picture of a fldigi waterfall.
[02:22] <Ian__> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:old_tracking
[02:23] <BUE_OSJ> ok i m searching what kind of antennas they are
[02:25] <Ian__> The tone filters on there are a little wider than necessary, but notice under the red lines marking the tone filter tuning point the red speckles
[02:25] <Ian__> This one shows it better, but there are two distinct tones on the last but one picture. http://projecthorus.org/index.php/tracking/
[02:26] <Ian__> At the moment just bits of wire are antennas. PISKY uses NTX2B txr I think, it can safely tx for short periods without an antenna (best not to cook txrs).
[02:27] <Ian__> The dongle merely need a random bit of wire. Too big a received signal will cause splatter and distortion. No antennas may render the signal too small to be received reliably.
[02:31] <BUE_OSJ> ahhhh ok
[02:32] <Ian__> That ahhhh, sounded ominous . . . ?
[02:32] <BUE_OSJ> i ll put tx on fl-digi
[02:33] <BUE_OSJ> ahhh == i ll have to fix on sdr so we can see two yellow lines
[02:34] <Ian__> That sounds like it might be a tuning issue?
[02:35] <Ian__> My wife expects me to posess Extra Sensory Perception when she asks me about Tablet problems. Not having a Tablet, I find it a bit difficult to guess without being able to see what she is talking about.
[02:36] <Ian__> I have become very good at guessing as a result . . . Necessity! :)
[02:40] <BUE_OSJ> jajaja... what kind of problem has your wife with the tablet?
[02:40] <BUE_OSJ> she wanna be root?
[02:41] <Ian__> She is a computer noobie - thinks like a woman . . .
[02:42] <Ian__> Has no concept of thinking logically. Women are wired up strangely at birth!
[02:42] <BUE_OSJ> yes i understand... but we cannot live without them
[02:43] <Ian__> How true. So, how are you doing with getting a convincing signal pattern into fldigi ? (just the picture at the moment)
[02:46] <BUE_OSJ> i m trying... i ve this sound on my PC https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0CzndBYNn_xLU1EaUxQdWR4cFU/view?usp=sharing
[02:46] <BUE_OSJ> sorry but i only have it on wav :S
[02:51] <Ian__> Ok, took me a minute but used Google Play to listen. It sounds like it is much faster than 50 Baud. It might be 300 Baud, but I would need to listen to a 300 Baud sample to be sure. /
[02:52] <Ian__> The audio level seems good and I assume that is via SDR# ?
[02:52] <BUE_OSJ> yes it s via sdr
[02:56] <BUE_OSJ> ok playing with the controls the ones at the right of the button 'WF' the ones that says -40 an 90
[02:56] <BUE_OSJ> i got this: http://imgur.com/fhbUrGe
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[02:58] <adamgreig> Ian__ please leave your misogyny out of this channel
[02:58] <adamgreig> Not OK here or anywhere
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[03:00] <BUE_OSJ> i think that he s in love...
[03:01] <Ian__> More a lack of logic actually :) but I was off topic
[03:02] <Ian__> So, adamgreig, as you are here, does that sound like 300 Baud to you? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0CzndBYNn_xLU1EaUxQdWR4cFU/view?usp=sharing
[03:02] <Ian__> I'm not getting anywhere very fast at the moment.
[03:04] <adamgreig> Sounds perhaps a bit slower if anything
[03:04] <adamgreig> Open it up in audacity and measure a bit period would tell you pretty quick
[03:05] <Ian__> Thanks for the tip.
[03:07] <BUE_OSJ> ahh great i have audacity
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[03:21] <Ian__> Shortest element that I can measure is .002S or 2mS, which suggests 500 Baud to me ?
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[03:24] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: yess you are right... thanks a lot
[03:24] <BUE_OSJ> i made this :
[03:25] <BUE_OSJ> http://imgur.com/izZon1i
[03:31] <BUE_OSJ> Ian__: i ll go to sleep. thanks a lot for your help :)
[03:31] <BUE_OSJ> have a good night!
[03:32] <Ian__> One moment I have an image to post
[03:33] <BUE_OSJ> ok
[03:35] <Ian__> Having problems, but will have it ready for tomorrow night,
[03:36] <Ian__> Good night :) Try to configure PISKY for 50 Baud
[03:37] <BUE_OSJ> ahhh ok i ll have to stop it and change the demon
[03:38] <BUE_OSJ> i m sure that is a const on the code that says BAUDS
[03:38] <BUE_OSJ> i hope so
[03:38] <Ian__> Ok, good night. See you tomorrow.
[03:38] <BUE_OSJ> good nights Ian__ i ll be searching a good IRC client for this chats
[03:38] <BUE_OSJ> maybe mIRC
[03:39] <Ian__> Buenos noches
[03:39] <BUE_OSJ> jajaj gracias igualmente!
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[04:00] <Ian__> Managed to forget my login detials . . . http://imgur.com/nGHERVJ
[04:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hs_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hs_chase
[04:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dans test_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dans%20test_chase
[04:12] <lcollins> so I have what's probably a dumb question that's probably been asked a thousand times, but I'm not finding a quick answer, so I figured I'll go ahead and ask it while I continue reading. I'm in the United States, working on a project to guide a payload back, and looking to use an arduino auto pilot, with which I'd like to link a radio so as to get somewhat continuous updates on what the autopilot is doing. Is there a go-to, somewhat
[04:28] <lcollins> looks like the radiometrix hx-1 might be what I'm looking for
[04:34] <Ian__> I guess that you will be using APRS on 2m?
[04:38] <lcollins> what do you mean by 2m?
[04:39] <Ian__> The HX1 on 144.390MHz with 300mW output seems to be the way to go, but be advised it requires a Ham Radio Licence for you to use it legally in the US.
[04:40] <lcollins> gotcha
[04:40] <Ian__> 2m is 144MHz Amateur Radio Band 144MHz to 148MHz in the US. 2m is the approximate wave length that the band is refered to by
[04:40] <lcollins> right, ok
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[04:40] <lcollins> one of the other guys on the project has a HAM license, so we're good there
[04:41] <lcollins> the SRB MX145 looks like another valid possibility
[04:43] <Ian__> That's fine then. Call in here in your morning, our afternoon and speak to Upu, who runs the HAB Supplies. He can help with sourcing and has an arrangement with the Radiometrix francise holder in the US to be able to supply strictly amateur users.
[04:43] <Ian__> If nothing else, he can help point you in the right direction.
[04:44] <lcollins> ok, sweet, thanks!
[04:44] <lcollins> I'll check back in here in the morning
[04:44] <Ian__> I'm not familiar with the SRB XM145, but good HABing. I should have been abed almost half a day ago ;)
[04:44] <Ian__> Good night.
[04:45] <lcollins> I was gonna say, I hope you get some rest tonight!
[04:45] <lcollins> or tomorrow morning
[04:45] <lcollins> lol
[04:45] <Ian__> I might not get up toooo early today. Time shifter
[04:45] <lcollins> well thanks again!
[04:45] <Ian__> You are welcome.
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[06:19] <Upu> morning lcollins
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[06:31] <Upu> !aprs add KG5FKB-11
[06:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03KG5FKB-11 to APRS Importer
[06:31] <Upu> thats actually a Pi In The Sky with a prototype APRS add on
[06:32] <lcollins> morning Upu!
[06:32] <Upu> Hi there
[06:32] <lcollins> as it turns out I'm still up
[06:32] <Upu> Ian who apparently doesn't sleep pinged me
[06:33] <lcollins> haha
[06:33] <lcollins> thanks for coming on!
[06:33] <Upu> I've not really scrolled back but you were asking about radio modules ?
[06:33] <lcollins> yeah, that's right
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[06:33] <dave-away> [06:31] <Upu> thats actually a Pi In The Sky with a prototype APRS add on
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[06:33] <dave-away> Ah goody
[06:34] <lcollins> looking to use some sort of APRS link to keep informed about an Arduino autopilot
[06:34] <Upu> ok are you planning on making it yourself ?
[06:35] <Upu> if so the HX1 is a good start
[06:35] <lcollins> yeah, I think so, unless there's something super cheap and easy that I should use instead
[06:35] <Upu> Well I sell the Habduino which can stick an APRS module on it (~£120) or you can get a Pi In The Sky which should have an APRS module coming out for it soon (maybe a little more)
[06:37] <lcollins> interesting
[06:38] <lcollins> I'm coming into a project which some other guys had already done some work on last semester
[06:38] <lcollins> the idea is to launch and then use a glider to guide the payload back
[06:38] <lcollins> I think they had an autopilot written, and most of the hardware put together
[06:39] <lcollins> so my job is basically just to set up a radio link so that we can watch what the autopilot does
[06:39] <lcollins> however, they did one launch with just a passive rig, and I think their GPS went out at mid-high altitude
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[06:40] <lcollins> so if we need to figure out radio, and get a new GPS anyway, might be worth just getting the whole Habduino package, by the sound of it
[06:41] <lcollins> would Habduino be compatible with Arduino Mega?
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[06:54] <Upu> meh internet went off sorry
[06:55] <lcollins> lol no problem
[06:57] <Upu> gtg to work back shortly
[06:57] <lcollins> ok
[06:58] <lcollins> I'm going to have to hit the sack here pretty soon
[06:58] <lcollins> but if I miss you now I'll catch you tomorrow in my morning/your afternoon!
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[07:08] <lcollins> yeah, I'm going to have to call it a night
[07:08] <lcollins> hope to talk to you in a bit!
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[08:39] <infaddict> morning all
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[09:04] <fsphil> g'morn
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[09:08] <DL7AD> fsphil: morning
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[10:21] <floris497> do you guys think it is cool to do live photos in an HAB?
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[10:24] <SpeedEvil> In principle - sure.
[10:24] <floris497> my team thinks it is to hard to include it..
[10:24] <dave-away> I like to do the live photos thing
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> It is impractical in many cases
[10:24] <SpeedEvil> floris497: Where are you?
[10:24] <floris497> at school :p
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> ...
[10:25] <floris497> the netherlands :p
[10:25] <dave-away> Now zoom back.
[10:25] <dave-away> Ah
[10:25] <dave-away> Simplest solution would be a "pi in the sky" board - see Upu/UpuWork here
[10:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM137/CL2144/SC1968/PF261053
[10:26] <floris497> why do you think it is impractival?
[10:26] <dave-away> There are some other trackers in NL so you shouldn't be short of listeners
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> floris497: getting enough data bandwidth in order to transmit pictures at 30-200km range is not easy.
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> You will often hit regulatory power limits on the transmitter
[10:28] <dave-away> "Live" ends up being " a few minutes after capture" for that reason
[10:29] <floris497> dave-away: we didnt realy want it that live, but sort of.
[10:30] <dave-away> sort of is what you'd get
[10:32] <infaddict> what sort of image quality do you get? one reason i went for in-payload camera with local storage was i) simplicity for beginner but also ii) image quality
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> Arbitrary
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> you can have one 500K pic over the flight, or a hundred 5K
[10:33] <floris497> we might connect a camera to the processing unit, with MIPI
[10:33] <SpeedEvil> But - in most cases, you're talking very small pictures.
[10:34] <floris497> and we save them on the SD and send smaller images over the radio
[10:34] <floris497> or do you thing it is better to put a camera in in timelaps mode?
[10:35] <infaddict> of course it means 95% of my payload weight is camera ;-(
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[10:40] <fsphil> some ssdv examples: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/sets/72157643394259575
[10:41] <fsphil> from a floating flight so there are more images sent than a usual flight
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[10:43] <fsphil> those where sent at 300 baud "live"
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[10:46] <infaddict> nice pics fsphil
[10:47] <infaddict> so the size (dimensions) are fairly small and not sure on the resolution? how would ssdv cope with "fine" image setting with larger dimensions? guessing it would just take longer to arrive.
[10:48] <dave-away> larger = longer ofc
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[10:48] <floris497> fsphil: looks verry good!
[10:48] <dave-away> One thing to remember is that test images you might take on the ground will probably have more detail (and therefore compress less well) than those at altitude
[10:49] <fsphil> above about 50% jpeg quality doesn't make much difference to ssdv
[10:49] <dave-away> Reason 1: black sky compresses very well
[10:49] <dave-away> Reason 2: Clouds are fluffy
[10:49] <fsphil> clouds, trees and shed walls are the enemys of image compression
[10:49] <infaddict> yep i guess sky pics compress very well due to similar colours in sky then in clouds
[10:49] <dave-away> I normally aim for about 5 minutes per test picture, so the flight images will be a bit less than that
[10:50] <fsphil> enemies*
[10:50] <dave-away> Trees are enemies, period
[10:50] <fsphil> I do remember one flight where the first 10 minutes was spend transmitting a picture of someone jeans
[10:50] <infaddict> plus i guess ssdv is the only option where you dont plan to retrieve payload haha
[10:50] <dave-away> I did a HAB talk at the weekend; I included "Dendrology" is one of the subjects that HAB covers
[10:51] <fsphil> yep :)
[10:51] <dave-away> Yeah a useful thing to do is tx small images on the ground and larger ones when airborne
[10:51] <dave-away> Or, sense the launch and cancel the last pic
[10:53] <infaddict> so does fldigi receive and decode this info guys?
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yup, View|S in the menu's to see the incoming picture
[10:55] <infaddict> and it can be intermixed with RTTY position data?
[10:55] <dave-away> and uploads image blocks to a server
[10:55] <infaddict> not literally i mean, but sending both from a payload
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yup
[10:55] <dave-away> where they get combined with those from other listeners
[10:55] <dave-away> and yes you can interleave
[10:56] <dave-away> You need to send a complete SSDV packet (256 bytes) at a time, and complete telemetry sentences
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[10:59] <infaddict> great, might be something I get into for subsequent flights and projects
[11:00] <floris497> is an FUNcube Dongle Pro+ (A20) overkill for this?
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[11:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Not overkill, but if its for one flight and not going to be used for the other amateur bands its not going to be well employed!
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[11:04] <fsphil> an rtlsdr and habamp might work out cheaper
[11:04] <fsphil> the funcube pro plus is a nice receiver though, if you do plan to use it beyond tracking one flight it might be worth it
[11:05] <gonzo_nb> or for a single flight, rope in some local amateurs to help (and bring their kit)
[11:05] <floris497> hm if barely fits into our budged but it seems to be realy good, and i can probbably use it in a different project, but we dont know what we do with the hardware after.
[11:05] <gonzo_nb> but receiving other peoples flighyts is fun, and good practice
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[11:06] <gonzo_nb> what's the aim if the project? Uni work?
[11:07] <floris497> Uni, but we make it for a company, but for fun
[11:08] <infaddict> yer the funcube pro+ and airspy are both good dongle solutions.
[11:08] <infaddict> remember, a budget doesnt mean you have to spend all of it ;-)
[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Start with this https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=323
[11:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> if you suffer problems with strong signals local to you then add the Habamp
[11:09] <infaddict> yep Geoff-G8DHE-Lap that is what i am using
[11:09] <infaddict> connecting to HabAmp (optional) and into a 1/4 wave magmount and yagi
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[11:10] <infaddict> so all of that can be had for < £70
[11:10] <infaddict> it also offers good upgrade path in that I could change cheap dongle to a funcube or similar very easily
[11:11] <floris497> did i miss messages?
[11:12] <dave-away> no
[11:13] <gonzo_nb> you could recoupe some by selling off the rx kit afterwards
[11:13] <floris497> $90 is better then 170
[11:13] <gonzo_nb> though buying used AR kit may mean you lose less on the deal
[11:13] <gonzo_nb> and AR kit that will do 70cm ssb should be fine
[11:13] <infaddict> yep second hand "proper" receivers can be had on ebay, including handhelds.
[11:14] <gonzo_nb> there are not many hhelds that will do ssb though
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[11:18] <dave-away> I've sold a couple of scanners on ebay and both sold for more than I paid
[11:18] <dave-away> If you hold out for a decent price then it should cost you just about nothing should you later sell it
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[11:50] <pc1pcl> floris497: you might also be able to get one or more local radio amateurs interested in helping out with the project
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[11:57] <floris497> pc1pcl: hm maybe a good idea, but i thing we have to do it more alone..
[11:57] <floris497> not sure who we can involve in our project
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[12:02] <infaddict> ha my long lost hong kong usb dongle order finally arrived (3 weeks after expected date). so i now have 3 dongles.
[12:03] <infaddict> i'm bound to break one trying to solder power headers to good to have a backup ;-)
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[12:05] <cambazz> hello. I am looking for foam spheres, or half spheres made from elapor. (some sort of rc foam)
[12:06] LunarWork (~kevin@pc32-338.physik.uni-osnabrueck.de) joined #highaltitude.
[12:06] <LunarWork> hello
[12:07] <cambazz> hello lunarwork
[12:07] <mattbrejza> cambazz: hobbycraft, ebay etc
[12:08] <cambazz> http://www.google.com.tr/imgres?imgurl=http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_1213.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ava.upuaut.net/?paged%3D2&h=3264&w=2448&tbnid=4vEPsOXqBB8NtM:&zoom=1&docid=bp0WhhAE48yK0M&ei=g_X2VNz5L4ngaPjVgMgJ&tbm=isch&client=ubuntu&ved=0CBsQMygCMAI
[12:08] <cambazz> i want exactly like that
[12:09] <mattbrejza> ebay
[12:10] <cambazz> well there are many in ebay, but this one has kinda of lock mechanism for the two halfes to come together. what is that thing called so i can type in my query
[12:11] <infaddict> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Styrofoam-Ball-Polystyrene-Ball-Modelling-Sphere-Round-Foam-Poly-Ball-Decoration-/191374323558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2c8ecc6f66
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[12:41] <infaddic_> finally i can connect an antenna to my ntx2b. anybody got some time to help a noob tune in gqrx and fldigi?
[12:42] <infaddic_> i meant antenna to usb dongle. anyway, i see 5 signals in gqrx instead of just one, which is strange, kind of mirror of each other. middle is strongest but all give high/low beeps.
[12:43] <pc1pcl> move TX and RX further apart as a first step, I'd say.
[12:43] <infaddic_> ok thx will try that. also the freq these peaks appear at is not what the NTX is supposed to be tx'ing at. lemme fix one problem first tho.
[12:43] <infaddic_> http://postimg.org/image/8b2i8yk9b/
[12:44] <pc1pcl> frequency difference can be caused by dongle being offfrequency, or by NTX2B-FA being set to something else than the label says.
[12:44] <pc1pcl> (or both)
[12:45] <infaddic_> aha when i change to 0 to 255 (low to high) i get single signal
[12:45] <infaddic_> should i leave like that for now, or try to bring them in a little
[12:46] <infaddic_> i am seeing a 6hz shift between high and low which is expected
[12:47] <infaddic_> just 140hz lower than advertised by ntx2. as you say could be ntx2 or dongle or both
[12:48] <pc1pcl> next step is probably to zoom way in so the passband filter width (lighter gray area to the right of the red line fils the screen a bit more.
[12:49] <pc1pcl> that pass band is likely from 300 to 3000 hz or something like it, so you'll need to make your high and low signals fit in there
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[12:50] <pc1pcl> so probably need to alternate between something like 128 and 164 instead of 0 / 255.
[12:51] <infaddic_> ok thx trying that now
[12:52] <infaddic_> ok 128 to 164 brings back the 5 mirror signals again
[12:52] <pc1pcl> using PWM I guess, which might cuase all kinds of nasty side effects..
[12:52] <infaddic_> centre strongest, then mirrored left and right getting weaker
[12:53] <infaddic_> yes. this is just Upus test code (loop delay based). gonna switch to my interrupt driven one to see if that makes it better.
[12:53] <pc1pcl> anyway just disregard the mirrored ones for now,and concentrate on the middle peak (pair of peaks I suppose)
[12:54] <pc1pcl> see if you can get them both in the passband and if the audio then sounds like it might be rtty.
[12:55] <pc1pcl> (next step is to feed that audio to fldigi, and see if you get a similar waterfall with two red (dotted) lines running down it.
[12:55] <infaddic_> ok bear with me
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[12:56] <pc1pcl> (also FTT size and fps can be a bit higher to make sure you have a less grainy spectrum when zooming in on the signal)
[12:58] <infaddic_> ah right was wondering how to get more "resolution" when zooming - very blocky at moment
[12:59] <pc1pcl> just set it to the highest numbers and if it then gets choppy maybe ease off a bit. but probably a modern computer should be able to keep up.
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[13:08] <infaddic_> something really not right here. going back to simple HIGH and LOW example isnt even appearing as that in gqrx now.
[13:08] <infaddic_> think i need to back to basic to prove nothing else on my board causing issues
[13:08] <pc1pcl> hmm any new screenshot to show what you're seeing now?
[13:10] <infaddic_> sure
[13:10] <pc1pcl> if back to basic, I'd suggest using just the ntx2b, power it and manually key it from e.g. 0 to 0.5V to see it move 1kHz
[13:10] <infaddic_> http://postimg.org/image/x4tzebce9/
[13:10] <infaddic_> so this is with simple loop doing low to high with 500ms delay between each
[13:11] <infaddic_> not getting anything like i should
[13:11] <infaddic_> when i upload to arduino the whole signal then moves to the right sadly and once executing again goes back to where it is in screenshot
[13:12] <infaddic_> im not actually hearing any audio either no matter where on the spike i click.
[13:12] <pc1pcl> I think you need to zoom in a bit more (and switch it back to USB,not WFM demodulation) to hear anything.
[13:13] <pc1pcl> it's set to FM, then it will take that steady peak as the carrier and present you with silence.
[13:14] <infaddic_> doh ok, god knows how it moved from USB back to FM!
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> infaddic_: your mouse is haunted.
[13:15] <pc1pcl> when using the arduino to 'key' the NTX2b, also make sure they are using the same ground reference, but I'd go back to just 'modulating' it by hand first.
[13:20] <Vaizki> that gqrx image you posted doesn't have very wide freq range visible
[13:20] <infaddic_> yer i had zoomed in as requested
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[13:21] <pc1pcl> only need about 6k as that's the widest the NTX2b will go, and fldigi only looks at about 3khz
[13:21] <Vaizki> ntx2b has 6kHz of "range"
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[13:23] <Vaizki> I wonder why dl-fldigi can't do a wider bandwidth but as said by default its limited to 3k and can be increased a bit in settings but not much
[13:23] <infaddic_> ok running a test beacon between 0 and 164 and get this (i do hear warbling): http://postimg.org/image/ju3d7fvnz/
[13:24] <infaddic_> still getting mirrored (weaker signals) either side of this strong middle signal
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[13:24] <Vaizki> Well the middle looks pretty ok now?
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[13:26] <infaddict> sry my laptop battery died
[13:27] <infaddict> i dunno what looks ok or not, thats my problem ha!
[13:27] <pc1pcl> this looks actually ok
[13:28] <pc1pcl> of course 6k of shift is too much for fldigi to handle
[13:28] <infaddict> ok so i will reduce the gap in the code
[13:28] <pc1pcl> don't worry too much about the extra peaks, note tha tthe vertical scale is log. so they are quite a bit weaker.
[13:29] <infaddict> where should i click around those 2 peaks to get correct/best audio for fldigi to work with?
[13:29] <infaddict> middle? left? right? etc
[13:29] <pc1pcl> to the 'left' of both of them.
[13:29] <Vaizki> The extra peaks are over 30k apart, not your code causing it for sure
[13:30] <Vaizki> And filter should cover both
[13:30] <Vaizki> Just set filter to 3k to start
[13:31] <Vaizki> So you get a full bw into dl-fldigi to play with
[13:31] <infaddict> how do i set this filter? i just have normal, narrow, wide as far as i see in gqrx
[13:32] <pc1pcl> you can drag the end of the shaded area
[13:32] <Vaizki> There is a setting BW I think
[13:32] <pc1pcl> it will go to 'user' I think then
[13:33] <Vaizki> Gqrx is not too great tbh
[13:33] <infaddict> yep im on a mac so not sure i have much others. it was a nightmare just to install it
[13:33] <pc1pcl> but if you set it to USB 'normal' I think it will be the 'normal' HAM passband of about +300 to +3000 Hz
[13:33] <Vaizki> I know
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[13:34] <infaddict> i have a windows laptop but useless for tracking as battery dies after < 30 mins
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[13:35] <Vaizki> Qu
[13:37] <pc1pcl> Anyway, the receiver side more or less works, as far as I can see, now you need to work a bit on the transmitter side.
[13:38] <infaddict> ok filter at 3k and zoomed in - another screenshot coming
[13:41] <Vaizki> Are you using pwm output?
[13:41] <infaddict> urgh wifi issues on laptop now so cant give screenshot at moment. so i think i now need to get the shift to within reasonable limits for fldigi
[13:42] <pc1pcl> I'd at this point set up the ntx2b with power, GNDs, enable, antenna, and a bit of wire on the input that you can alternatively connect to ground and 0.5 V references
[13:45] <pc1pcl> (make the ~0.5 V with a two resistor voltage divider e.g. (5V)==10k R=(0.5V)=1k R==(GND) )
[13:46] <infaddict> Vaizki: yes PWM, but trying a few diff examples to test things out (simple high low, test beacon, real beacon)
[13:46] <infaddict> thx pc1pcl i will dig out what resistors i have to try this tonight
[13:46] <infaddict> so would you suggest plugging and unplugging between 0 and 1.5V to ensure reception is good?
[13:47] <infaddict> i now have a waterfall in fldigi approx 425hz shift but its decoding garbage
[13:47] <pc1pcl> If you have that then you are already quite near.
[13:48] <pc1pcl> might need to get the settings of fldigi correct now though.
[13:48] <Vaizki> 425Hzis about 16 steps of pwm if I remember right
[13:48] <infaddict> s/n showing as 19dB
[13:48] <Vaizki> 8bit pwm on 3.3v
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[13:49] <Vaizki> I use 425 also
[13:49] <infaddict> yep im at 17 at moment
[13:49] <infaddict> v close
[13:49] <infaddict> but fldigi not making sense of it
[13:50] <pc1pcl> now might be a time to reduce FFT and gqrx WF update speed, incase it is causing the demodulation to chop things up a bit.
[13:51] <pc1pcl> too bad screenshots don't work, would be nice to have a shot of the current fldigi window
[13:51] <Vaizki> make sure fldigi is set for 7n2 also
[13:51] <Vaizki> Default is 5bit alphabet
[13:51] <infaddict> yep when laptop died of battery, now wifi wont connect grrr
[13:52] <Vaizki> Use a floppy
[13:52] <pc1pcl> usbkeyfob.
[13:54] <infaddict> ok checked rtty settings in fldigi are 50 baud, 425hz shift, 7 bit ascii, 0 parity and 2 stop bits. restarting laptop to get u guys a screenshot
[13:54] <Vaizki> Did you also select rtty as the mode?
[13:55] <infaddict> yes, i found my payload doc and did auto configure, but just checked manually as well
[13:56] <Vaizki> ok, screenshot will solve it then
[13:56] <gonzo_nb> you can set the stop bits to 1
[13:57] <gonzo_nb> even if sending 2
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[13:57] <infaddict> restart didnt work. think i've broke my brand new macbook ;-/
[13:58] <infaddict> doesnt want me to send a screenshot lol
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[13:58] <Vaizki> :/
[13:59] <infaddict> thx for all the support guys really appreciate it. sadly have to dash to work now so to be continued...
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[15:46] <lcollins> Upu, you still around?
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[15:48] <UpuWork> I am
[15:48] <UpuWork> hang on
[15:48] <Upu> I am
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[16:00] <Ian__> Upu, is default telemetry speed for PISKY 50 Baud? BUE_OSJ (Argentina) has been talking with me the last two nights 2AM was originally looking for daveake, but /
[16:01] <Upu> 300 out of the box
[16:01] <Upu> wouldn't recommend you go more than that
[16:01] <Ian__> Rgr, that explains a thing or two.
[16:01] <Upu> 2 things people do is go :
[16:01] <Ian__> What's the recommendation - leave it at that?
[16:01] <Upu> a) SPEEDDDDD! and set 600 baud and they can't decode anything
[16:02] <Upu> b) Image size to MASSIVE!!!! then wonder why they are sending a picture of someones arse for the entire launch
[16:02] <Upu> 300 baud and the default image size are recommended
[16:03] <Ian__> Rgr. The guy was having problems getting a decode on fldigi (DL?) but the problem seems to be getting a decent signal into fldigi in the first place.
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[16:04] <Ian__> Just thought that I would check with you.
[16:04] <Upu> yeah he may have been tuned into a shadow too
[16:05] <Upu> not the actual frequency
[16:05] <Ian__> What's the default tone shift - for (dl-)fldigi = = = Yes, the round trip loop is a bit extended with him, although improving
[16:05] <Ian__> Thank goodness his English is good.
[16:06] <Ian__> Seems to be missing some of the basic concepts, that building your own teach early :)
[16:06] <Upu> :)
[16:07] <Ian__> I did suggest that if he needs smarter smarts than myself that hitting the channel around 2100 (1800ART) would be a good idea, I get the impression that he both works and then has Uni . . . busy man
[16:08] <Upu> using an RTL ?
[16:08] <Ian__> Yes
[16:08] <Upu> ok they are usually miles off
[16:08] <Upu> probably not tuned into the real signal
[16:09] <Ian__> Fair comment and would explain why he can't improve it with any gain adjustments
[16:09] <Ian__> I'll keep you informed, if only for the amusement value :)
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[16:13] <lcollins> so Upu, I'm still trying to decide whether I ought to get the habduino or not
[16:13] <lcollins> I assume I can get both that and the HX-1 shipped to the US from HAB Supply?
[16:13] <lcollins> though it looks like Habduino is out of stock at the moment?
[16:14] <lcollins> I've done quite a bit of programming, and have a basic sense of circuitry, though I don't really know the first thing about radio
[16:14] <lcollins> so building from scratch with the HX-1 might take me a bit of work
[16:14] <Upu> yes both are shipped from UK
[16:14] <Upu> and yes its out of stack
[16:14] <Upu> Chinese new year :/
[16:14] <Upu> due in late March
[16:15] <lcollins> haha, ok
[16:16] <lcollins> and if I were to get a ublox max8, that would work up to 100k feet?
[16:16] <Upu> where is sibot when you need him
[16:16] <Upu> yes it works to 50km in "flight" mode
[16:17] <lcollins> what is flight mode?
[16:20] <Vaizki> GPS dynamic model for Things that Fly
[16:20] <Vaizki> Ships and cars don't fly so they don't need to worry about altitudes above mt Everest
[16:22] <Vaizki> Oh he left...
[16:22] <Ian__> I was just about to explain cocom balistic limits too . . .
[16:22] <lcollins> I'm here and interested
[16:22] <Ian__> Drat
[16:23] <Upu> basically in default it stops @ 12km
[16:23] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=738
[16:23] <Ian__> Commercial GPS devices are normally balistically limited to prevent DIY cruise missile construction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoCom
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[16:24] <Ian__> Flight mode is the mode required to extend the more pedestrian or vehicular modes
[16:25] <lcollins> right, I'd heard about the cruise missile worries
[16:26] <Ian__> If you have an Arduno Uno or similar, having a tat about with some of Upu's example code with buzzers, speakers and LEDs hung on output pins and a little imagination can teach you a lot.
[16:26] <fxmulder> you can just use google image recognition to find your way to the white house
[16:27] <lcollins> so do the balistic limitations apply to the max8, but get turned off in flight mode?
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[16:28] <lcollins> or is it one of the GPS units that shuts itself down only when it gets going over 1k knots AND over 18km?
[16:28] <Upu> AND
[16:29] <Upu> or
[16:29] <Ian__> The limits are eased to allow for useful high altitude. You have it, you can't have your altitude and velocity ena expect to eat it
[16:29] <Ian__> AFK work to do. bbl
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[16:54] <lcollins> so Upu do you think I could drop a Habduino on an arduino mega?
[16:59] <Upu> Err
[17:00] <Upu> well it physically goes on
[17:00] <Upu> just checked an old one
[17:00] <Upu> but I don't support it
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[17:03] <lcollins> lol, ok
[17:03] <lcollins> if it physically goes on we can probably figure it out
[17:06] <lcollins> thanks for checking
[17:07] <daveake_> You'd need to change the PWM / timer setting code
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[17:10] <lcollins> ok
[17:11] <lcollins> I'm honored to be talking to dave akerman!
[17:12] <Vaizki> He's also talking back!
[17:13] <lcollins> lol
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[17:14] <Vaizki> anyway, atmega2560 has more timers and different registers than atmega328
[17:15] <lcollins> ok
[17:15] <lcollins> are both different from Uno?
[17:15] <Vaizki> Uno is 328p
[17:15] <Vaizki> Current one
[17:16] <lcollins> right, ok
[17:16] <Vaizki> Arduino is a board, atmega328p is the processor
[17:16] <lcollins> lol, duh
[17:16] <cambazz> what do you guys think of http://www.dorji.com/docs/data/DRF1278DM.pdf <= for hab use.
[17:16] <lcollins> I guess I'm betraying just how little I know here
[17:16] <cambazz> it is a lora modem
[17:17] <Vaizki> some people here are testing hoperf Lora
[17:17] <Vaizki> I have some myself
[17:19] <Vaizki> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=110
[17:19] <cambazz> well i ordered hoperf lora, but it still did not arrive
[17:19] <Vaizki> those. have not gotten to using them yet
[17:20] <cambazz> what stopped you from doing it? just not doing it?
[17:20] <cambazz> i started developing my baloon software, and it is a lot of fun
[17:20] <Vaizki> yea I was busy with other stuff
[17:21] <Vaizki> like tracker software development..
[17:21] <cambazz> is this pin by pin compatible with rfm69hw
[17:21] <cambazz> it would be great if i could solder a moteino on them.
[17:22] <Vaizki> data sheets...
[17:25] <daveake_> It's a completely different pin layout to the rfm69hw
[17:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5FKB-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5FKB-11
[17:26] <daveake_> and the rfm98 has different pins to the '69
[17:28] <daveake_> Also, the dorji things have an extra processor on them which you talk to via a uart
[17:28] <Vaizki> quite a bit of LoRa products here at the MWC show too
[17:28] <daveake_> So it's hiding the chip (which is SPI) from you
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[17:29] <Vaizki> it's like a xbee?
[17:30] <daveake_> Seems to have some sort of mesh thing
[17:38] <cambazz> daveake_ : oh so i wont be able to stick them to a moteino?
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[17:39] <cambazz> I understand that dorji is an rf module, but i looked at the specs of this one, and you can set all of the things.
[17:39] <cambazz> it is claiming -138 sensitivity
[17:40] <cambazz> at 0.293 kbps
[17:40] <daveake_> It's serial so you'd need to connect it to a serial port
[17:41] <cambazz> daveake_ : yes i understand that too. i was just wondering - if - they could be used for hab and - if - they would perform like the rfm69
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[17:41] <cambazz> pardon, like rfm98
[17:41] <Vaizki> -138dB when the transmitter is at -55°C, dropping through the atmosphere? :)
[17:41] <daveake_> Yes they can
[17:42] <daveake_> I see no reason to add something between processor and lora chip
[17:42] <cambazz> it would be extra heavy.
[17:43] <Vaizki> biggest problem with LoRa I would guess is that everyone who wants to help track it needs a LoRa
[17:43] <Upu> shouldn't be an issue...soon
[17:43] <Vaizki> there is no pc software to "decode" lora
[17:43] <mattbrejza> yet
[17:43] <jonsowman> someone should get on that
[17:43] <cambazz> I started writing software, and i am having a lot of fun. doing things like send commands to change picture resolution, and frequency
[17:43] <mattbrejza> need to add msgpack to habitat too
[17:44] <Vaizki> yes, yet. and I'm not sure what the IP around LoRa is, will you get sued for writing such software
[17:44] <cambazz> and i got a mpu9150 measuring euler angles, and i will attempt to trigger the camera at certain angles.
[17:44] <Ian__> Is Lora protocol considered to be proprietry?
[17:44] <cambazz> Vaizki: no way
[17:44] <mattbrejza> just dont sell it
[17:44] <Ian__> Just checking ;)
[17:45] <Vaizki> as I said, I don't know :)
[17:45] <cambazz> ok so i wont be selling.
[17:45] <Vaizki> lots of things need a license you know...
[17:45] <Vaizki> like GIF! :)
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[17:45] <Vaizki> or h.264
[17:45] <Vaizki> mp3
[17:45] <cambazz> but then i dont think so.
[17:45] <mattbrejza> well its covered by patents so you can write code or whatever to implement it, but no selling
[17:46] <cambazz> well i think it is like this: if you buy the chip from them you can do whatever you want
[17:46] <Vaizki> well I don't think it's ok to give away patented stuff either
[17:46] <Vaizki> cambazz: that's the point, we were talking about receiving lora with a SDR and decoding without the chip
[17:47] <cambazz> but if there is a way to change a simple radio to lora transceiver and make a product and sell it without buying their chips
[17:47] <cambazz> then that would be problem
[17:47] <Vaizki> ... or at least I was talking about that...
[17:47] <adamgreig> so you can't generally infringe a patent by yourself
[17:47] <adamgreig> there must be commercial exploitation in most countries
[17:47] <adamgreig> in the US, non commercial use can still be patent infringement
[17:47] <adamgreig> (I'm not a lawyer)
[17:47] <cambazz> i dont think it would be a problem can be problem
[17:47] <adamgreig> probably you wouldn't get sued anyway though
[17:47] <cambazz> and who owns lora exactly
[17:48] <adamgreig> well, the patent holder does
[17:48] <cambazz> hmm
[17:48] <Ian__> I reckon that getting to grips with the current technology should be enough at the start. Bother about the more complicated once the training wheels are off
[17:49] <Ian__> No point in over complicating a first project by diving into the general unknown, rather than the personal unknown.
[17:50] <mattbrejza> not sure i agree
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[17:50] <cambazz> do it.
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[17:50] <cambazz> even againist the rule
[17:51] <Ian__> Well Matt, it's good to have a grasp of the fundamentals before jumping into the deep end. You are probably exceptional
[17:52] <mattbrejza> well youll need to learn the fundamentals first to allow you to do the general unknown or the personal unknown
[17:53] <cambazz> what does 168db maximum link budget mean
[17:54] <Ian__> Some seem keen to skip the fundamentals bit and swim in deep water - for example!
[17:54] <Ian__> ^^
[17:54] <cambazz> yes thats me :)
[17:54] <Ian__> :) "Sharks!"
[17:54] <mattbrejza> thats the power lost from the output of the transmitter to the input of the reciever
[17:55] <Vaizki> http://www.research.ibm.com/labs/zurich/ics/lrsc/lmic.html
[17:55] <Vaizki> whoa
[17:55] <mattbrejza> most of which is from path loss
[17:55] <Vaizki> ibm offers a free LoRa MAC implementation in C.. :O
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[17:56] <Vaizki> hmm there's example stm32 code
[17:56] <cambazz> there goes your sdr plugin. ibm has done it.
[17:56] <Vaizki> oh I wish it was that easy ;)
[17:57] <cambazz> me and a friend did an sdr plugin it was not that hard
[17:57] <cambazz> but of course it wont be that easy
[17:57] <Vaizki> The library takes care of all logical MAC states and timing constraints and drives the SEMTECH SX1272 radio.
[17:57] <Vaizki> pffft
[17:58] <cambazz> is there any chance of getting the exact hardware taht ibm is using and test it on
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[17:59] <Vaizki> I just told you what they use...
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[18:03] <Vaizki> anyway, it seems like the bare radio from semtech is very timing sensitive
[18:04] <Vaizki> so if you don't want to use IBM's code or dig in deep, something like the dorji might make sense
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[18:08] <daveake_> Vaiziki Not sure what you're saying. They all use the Semtech chip or a licensed copy thereof. Timing issues on the radio side are down to the chosen xtal.
[18:08] <seventeen_> Did somone mention LoRa ? https://github.com/hexameron/rtl-sdrangelove/blob/master/plugins/channel/lora/lorabits.h
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[18:14] <cambazz> does it work
[18:15] <daveake_> Whilst it would be useful for some to have a software decoder ...
[18:15] <daveake_> ... a LoRa module is a few quid
[18:15] <daveake_> Way less than a decent SDR
[18:15] <mattbrejza> itll be nice for those with exisiting gear, also a soft rx could listen to the whole band
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[18:16] <seventeen_> Amazingly it does work .. .. just.
[18:16] <Vaizki> daveake_: well it seems hoperf implementation is doing more than the bare semtech radio, with a quick look at it
[18:17] <Mark_B> Good evening
[18:17] <Vaizki> and as said, not everyone who might help with HAB tracking wants to get lora chips just yet?
[18:17] <Vaizki> so a software radio solution is grea
[18:17] <daveake_> Vaiziki Not that I know of
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[18:18] <daveake_> It's basically the semtech chip on a reference board
[18:18] <Vaizki> daveake_: ok maybe I misunderstand IBM's code then.
[18:18] <cambazz> i think the opposite, i think making a gadget for lora tracking and giving it to relevant teams could be solution
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[18:18] <daveake_> That's just code
[18:18] <daveake_> You can use it on a semtech
[18:18] <seventeen_> My pisky lora gateway is online if anyone wants to launch
[18:18] <daveake_> March 20th much lora will be airborne
[18:19] <cambazz> daveake_ : ?
[18:19] <Mark_B> On the subject of airborne, is it possible to get a flight approved for Saturday please?
[18:19] <Vaizki> daveake_: yes I understand that.. now reading hoperf - or hopeless? - datasheet
[18:19] <seventeen_> I put on the second rfm98.
[18:19] <daveake_> hoperf manuals are hopeless
[18:20] <daveake_> cambazz Upu has made a lora Pi board and has sent a few out
[18:21] <daveake_> We want to get a wider network obviously
[18:21] <cambazz> daveake_ : can i see their web page or something
[18:22] <daveake_> can you see whose web page?
[18:22] <cambazz> Upu
[18:22] <daveake_> he has many web sites :)
[18:22] <daveake_> what do you want?
[18:23] <cambazz> ok i want to see this lora pi board implementation
[18:25] <daveake_> It's not on sale yet
[18:25] <daveake_> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5bC7ErIUAAtkav.jpg:large <- pic
[18:25] <adamgreig> Mark_B: best ask in #habhub
[18:26] <cambazz> nice.
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[18:26] <daveake_> Tracker s/w for PITS board + lora add-on https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/tree/LoRa
[18:26] <cambazz> so it is a pi board?
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[18:26] <daveake_> gateway s/w https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway
[18:26] <daveake_> [18:23] <cambazz> ok i want to see this lora pi board implementation
[18:26] <daveake_> [18:26] <cambazz> so it is a pi board?
[18:26] <daveake_> erm ...
[18:27] <Mark_B> <adamgreig> ack, thnx
[18:27] <daveake_> and [18:20] <daveake_> cambazz Upu has made a lora Pi board and has sent a few out
[18:27] <cambazz> ok ok it is a pi board.
[18:27] <daveake_> I think you and I both said so ...
[18:28] <Vaizki> I am still not sure it's a pi board, can someone confirm
[18:28] <Vaizki> :)
[18:28] <daveake_> <explode>
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[18:28] <cambazz> it is a pi board vaizki :)
[18:28] <daveake_> Ah I did wonder
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[18:29] <cambazz> when i meant `so is it a pi board` the second time, i was actually like `so it is a pi board, what can be done with it`
[18:29] <cambazz> but appearently i mistyped what was in my head
[18:30] <daveake_> It provides full SPI access to the lora module
[18:31] <cambazz> daveake_ : what does full spi access mean? does it provide to use a part of api that we can not reach with arduino spi
[18:31] <daveake_> Blimey this is hard going
[18:31] <Vaizki> daveake_: ok based on your code the interaction with the lora radio is not bad at all
[18:32] <daveake_> It connects the SPI port to the Pi
[18:32] <daveake_> The end
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[18:32] <Vaizki> the ibm stuff someewhat threw me off
[18:32] <daveake_> Well, it connects 2 DIO pins too
[18:32] <daveake_> which make some of the code a bit easier/quicker
[18:33] <daveake_> but essentially, if the lora module does it then you can do it from the pi
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[18:34] <cambazz> i have been coding something to snap pictures from the mini-serial camera to sdcard, then transmit it, and damn it is slow
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[18:37] <Vaizki> pi camera is pretty fast
[18:41] <cambazz> oh, i have another question: what speeds do we write to a sdcard with spi? I have my cam at 38400, and does it matter if it is slower, i.e. how slow is writing to sd card? it would not be slower than the serial?
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[18:41] <daveake_> SPI is way faster
[18:42] <daveake_> It can be slowed down but no reason to
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[18:47] <Vaizki> and sd card over SPI is very fast but the "standard" libraries people use to access them are very far from optimal
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[19:32] <seventeen_> ls
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[19:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> evening!
[19:42] <mclane_> Hello - very quiet here since some weeks...
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[19:52] <tweetBot> @WidyaZh1: Congratulations to http://t.co/UZDrVUDdmf on their successful launch video here http://t.co/6kYbSBxswm #ukhas
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[20:09] <ProSpectre> Evening gents.
[20:10] <infaddict> ello
[20:12] <infaddict> right i'm back on the RTTY job tonight. Here's the signal in Gqrx: http://imgur.com/P6B6h5t and here's the waterfall in fldigi: http://imgur.com/R8tEKND
[20:12] <infaddict> Clearly not decoding the RTTY, despite being 50 baud 7n2.
[20:13] <infaddict> Any advice on how those signals look or anything else appreciated. This is just a test beacon with no antenna on NTX2B, but receiving only inches away from it.
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[20:14] <mclane_> can you show the schematic of your setup?
[20:15] <infaddict> the whole board or just the radio bit?
[20:15] <mclane_> radio plus microcontroller
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> infaddict who us the swimming this time of year ?
[20:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> who/how
[20:16] <infaddict> sure i can open up Eagle if u want screen print. but its Arduino Mini Pro 3.3V 8Mhz.... digital pin 9... 10K resistor... TX pin on NTX2B. Then I have 3.3V to both VCC and EN pin and GND to GND.
[20:17] <infaddict> Geoff-G8DHE: huh?!
[20:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Look at the tracker - North Sea ;-)
[20:18] <infaddict> aha lol yep good old location prediction
[20:18] <daveake_> PWM frequency too low (at a guess)
[20:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Probably East rather than West longtitude ?
[20:18] <infaddict> I'm -1.4 west
[20:18] <infaddict> ish
[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> your down as 1.4
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[20:19] <infaddict> ha oops, fixed now ;-)
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[20:20] <infaddict> daveake_: thx will measure frequency on DMM to check it
[20:20] <infaddict> as i'm new to this, is it normal to see that noise on fldigi waterfall - lots of red spots
[20:20] <daveake_> to do that, disable the rtty and set the output to 50%
[20:21] <infaddict> ok so high and low
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[20:23] <daveake_> No, you're using PWM, so set the "analog" value to 50% of full scale
[20:23] <daveake_> the pwm hardware should then give a square wave at whatever frequency it's set to
[20:23] <daveake_> which you can then measure
[20:24] <daveake_> if you keep sending rtty it's going to get a tad confused
[20:24] <Rigel> hi... need calculator to help fill a nylon bag for a floater...
[20:24] <infaddict> ok thx, so will set to 128
[20:24] <daveake_> and if you send 0% or 100% it won't measure anything
[20:24] <daveake_> yup 128
[20:25] <infaddict> thx daveake_
[20:25] <daveake_> I know PWM saves 2p in resistors but it does cause more work and hassle
[20:25] <infaddict> indeed, i am happy for alternative suggestions. dont know much about resistor method.
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[20:26] <Rigel> hi... need calculator to help fill a nylon bag for a floater...
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[20:29] <Rigel> hi... need calculator to help fill a nylon bag for a floater...
[20:30] <daveake_> for the 3R method, it's O/P pin --> 22k* --> NTX2 Data
[20:30] <daveake_> Also NTX2 data --> 4k7 --> 0V
[20:30] <daveake_> And NTX2 data --> 4k7 --> 3V3
[20:31] <daveake_> Change the 22k to get whatever shift you actually want
[20:31] <daveake_> After that you just set that output to 0V or 3V3
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[20:33] <Ian__> Bottom of the page Rigel http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[20:33] <Upu> he left
[20:34] <Ian__> Missed that.
[20:34] <infaddict> cheers daveake_
[20:34] <infaddict> not sure i have a 22k, have lots of others so will check
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[20:38] <Vaizki> It will affect shift if you change it
[20:41] <Vaizki> Norwegian cancelled my flight home, pilot strike
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[20:41] <infaddict> urgh
[20:42] <Ian__> Still in Barcelona or mid way home?
[20:42] <Vaizki> 360 euros and one phone call later I have a Finnair one instead
[20:42] <Vaizki> Still in BCN
[20:42] <Ian__> Fly the flag - At least not in limbo.
[20:43] <Vaizki> Show goes on tomorrow still
[20:44] <Vaizki> I coded a bit on ST stand ;)
[20:44] <Ian__> More than one day of show and your feet must be hurting .. .
[20:45] <Vaizki> Oh this is easy. ITU show used to be 10 days 10 hours each.
[20:46] <Ian__> Ouch, rather you than me.
[20:46] <Vaizki> This one is just 4 days and 9 hours each ;)
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[21:00] <infaddict> ok as a test, inside my ISR routine, I've commented out my normal code and replaced with analogWrite(128). i get no freq or duty cycle on my DMM at all...
[21:00] <infaddict> if i do same with alternating high vs low in the ISR i get a 25.03Hz freq and 49.9% duty
[21:00] <infaddict> ^^^ so with analogWrite 0 and 255
[21:00] <infaddict> so that means my PWM is ok right?
[21:01] <infaddict> as 25Hz is correct for 50 baud?
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[21:03] <Vaizki> The pwm freq is much higher
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[21:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> In that image you put up earlier the audio level into dl-fldigi was way over the top shown by the RED Diamond in the lower right
[21:04] <Vaizki> But if you toggle a pin in the isr and get 25Hz then isr is getting called at 50hz
[21:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> You also had Sq uelch ON - OK set low level but better to have it off.
[21:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> infaddict what are you trying to measure ?
[21:06] <infaddict> earlier daveake said to try measuring the PWM
[21:06] <infaddict> by setting analog value to 50%
[21:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> why do you want to measure the PWM frequency ?
[21:06] <Vaizki> It may be too much for the fm
[21:07] <Vaizki> Dmm
[21:07] <infaddict> i dont know just following advice on troubleshooting
[21:08] <mclane_> the pwm frequency must be high
[21:08] <mclane_> you basically generate a dc voltage with it
[21:08] <mclane_> the resistor together with a capacitor in the ntx forms a low pass filter
[21:09] <mclane_> by changing the pwm duty cycle you vary the voltage
[21:09] <mclane_> and that generates the fsk signal in the ntx2
[21:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looking at the screen grab, you seem to be getting a repeat of the rubbish - that indicates that its decoding something but wrong speed or format i.e. not 50Baud or not 7N2 or whatever your using
[21:09] <Vaizki> It's 5khz filter in the radio if I remember correctly
[21:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> I would suggest yu turn the drive level down at the audio out to dl-fldigi until you get a Green Diamond and then try again
[21:11] <infaddict> ok Geoff-G8DHE would i do that by adjusting gain in Gqrx?
[21:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> adjust ing the audio output level not the Gain of the SDR
[21:11] <infaddict> there is an audio gain level
[21:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you sure ?
[21:11] <infaddict> cant see any volume in Gqrx
[21:12] <infaddict> but there is receiver options -> audio -> gain
[21:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> I don't use Gqrx but every other program has the ability to adjust the volume
[21:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that one Audio Gain then
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[21:12] <Vaizki> The waterfall doesn't look right, just saw the grabs
[21:13] <mclane_> you can use the audiogain or the volume adjustment
[21:13] <Vaizki> The mark and space are not very well defined
[21:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its overdriving the audio level on the previous image so difficult to tell anything
[21:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also turn of the SQL control to avoid other problems
[21:15] <infaddict> ok should i hit A button next to SQL - is that auto?
[21:15] <infaddict> or adjust it myself?
[21:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> No just click SQL
[21:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> the green light will go off
[21:16] <infaddict> ah in fldigi, ok. sry i also have SQL in Gqrx
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> turn off anything like that in Gqrx
[21:16] <Vaizki> All off
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[21:17] <infaddict> i get nothing output in Gqrx unless i set squelch to -49dBFS or lower
[21:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> If Gqrx doesn't have a SQL OFF button then set it very low but I'll be suprised if it hasn't got an OFF
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[21:18] <infaddict> if it set it any higher that around -45 the audio stops
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that's the action of Squelch, thats why you want it OFF
[21:19] <infaddict> ok, so set to minimum level which is -150
[21:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> If that's all that is available, is there not a Squelch enable/disable radio button or tick box ?
[21:20] <infaddict> green diamond now in fldiigi but still not decoding
[21:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK can you do antother screen grab ?
[21:20] <infaddict> sure of fldigi?
[21:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> yes with Gqrx in the background as before
[21:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which Radio mode have you got selected in Gqrx ?
[21:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> You want Upper Sideband USB
[21:21] <infaddict> http://imgur.com/ICaQKjv
[21:22] <infaddict> yep USB
[21:22] <infaddict> 3k filter
[21:22] <infaddict> AGC=Fast whatever tha means
[21:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK select USB in D-fldigi as well
[21:23] <infaddict> aha it works!!
[21:23] <infaddict> so why not RTTY?
[21:23] <infaddict> all the guides i read said select manual RTTY mode
[21:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> No you want all AGC, SQL extra filters etc OFF in Gqrx, its not doing the decoding so you want the unaltered audio going to dl-fldigi
[21:23] <infaddict> yep sry i changed from RTTY to USB inside fldigi and it suddenly decodes correctly
[21:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[21:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Your actually receiving FSK not RTTY itself which is modulated tones
[21:25] <infaddict> brilliant thanks so much Geoff-G8DHE
[21:25] <infaddict> i can now move on from test beacon to my main code again
[21:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> dl-fldigi mixes two slightly differetn thigs up RTTY is an Audio mode whilst SSB/USB is a radio mode
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> the problem is the two things can be very similar but not quite the same!
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you actually tracked any flights yet using dl-fldigi ?
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[21:27] <infaddict> nope as my receiver and antenna only just arrived. i have a yagi 80% built and ready to use so hopefully next flight in UK I can try.
[21:27] <infaddict> defo need the practice!
[21:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right, well its well worth getting some practice but also just playing with dl-fldigi settings to get to know what does what
[21:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> next flight spend 1/2 day tracking but also playing with the settings as its very easy to click a button and not realise what effect it is having
[21:29] <infaddict> yep agreed worth investing that time
[21:29] <infaddict> ok my full code isnt decoding properly but i can at least investigate that knowing a test beacon works!! great support here as usual guys thx
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[21:35] <Vaizki> it's great seeing your transmission magically getting tapped out by fldigi for the first time
[21:36] <Vaizki> Marconi moment ;)
[21:38] <infaddict> indeed!!
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[21:42] Nick change: nigelvh -> Guest52879
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.interorbital.com/Downloads/CubeSat+Specifications+and+Pricing+Publish+1.1.pdf
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> lol @ radiometrix
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> not that those guys are going to be getting anything anywhere
[21:53] <Vaizki> private mausoleum for space burial?
[21:55] <Vaizki> I do NOT want to be buried in an arduino
[21:55] <Vaizki> maybe I should add that to my testament
[21:56] <Babs_> Payload space on low-altitude test launches (30,000 to 50,000 ft): $750/kg
[21:56] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 50,000 ft = 15.2 km
[21:56] <Babs_> some money to be made there
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[21:58] <gonzo_nb> 12k5$ for a launch, is cheap
[22:03] <infaddict> and after receiving a simple test beacon for the very first time, i bid you all farewell. one small step for me... good night ;-)
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[22:47] <Vaizki> ok so went through interrupt-driven RTTY and PWM output to NTX2B with infaddict in private.. those two concepts are presented in two separate examples on the wiki etc, and both examples use TIMER1 on the arduino (atmega328p).. one for 50Hz interrupts with prescaler of 1024 and the other for as-fast-as-possible PWM without any prescaler.
[22:48] <Vaizki> naturally these two configurations for TIMER1 conflict and it was causing infaddict pain
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[22:49] <Vaizki> so guided him towards using a pin for PWM TX that runs off TIMER2 without a prescaler instead.. but maybe the wiki needs something on this as well
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[22:52] <Vaizki> (tbh, I actually told him to use resistors)
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[22:58] <Ian__> Three resistors leaves PWM assets free for other things. Sounds good to me.
[23:01] <Vaizki> indeed, and of course there are ways to share for example timer 1 between PWM and a 50Hz ISR but you're locking yourself in a bit
[23:03] <Vaizki> and at 8Mhz (3.3V) instead of 16MHz F_CPU you are under additional pressure not to prescale
[23:07] <Vaizki> atmega timers are a bit weak anyway, only one 16bit timer, the other two are 8bit
[23:09] <Vaizki> I am working on a STM32F401 doing some tests, has 6 x 16bit and 2x 32 bit timers in addition to sys ticks and watcdogs.. so a different league
[23:09] <Vaizki> and runnong at 84MHz...
[23:09] <Vaizki> </rant>
[23:11] <fsphil> the extra complexity on the stm32 is a bit annoying
[23:11] <fsphil> not as easy to get things up and running as quickly
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[23:21] <Vaizki> sure
[23:21] <Vaizki> its a bit like arch linux :)
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[00:00] --- Thu Mar 5 2015