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[03:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hi_chase
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[04:42] <NormanOK> do you guys know what for example PS balloons use as radio to transmit in multiple frequencies?
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[05:30] <SpeedEvil> PS balloons?
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[05:30] <SpeedEvil> Polystyrene is a sucky material for balloons
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[06:33] <Oddstr13> SpeedEvil: probably refering to the PS-30 and the likes
[06:34] <Oddstr13> the floaters
[06:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[08:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC14 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC14
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[08:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ATSAT-4 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-4
[08:45] <Maxell> ATSAT-4? WEEEEEE!
[08:46] <Vaizki> it went on a weekend bender in Tijuana but survived
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[08:55] <youdontmeanmuch> hello, we are putting together a balloon and using trackduino, our confirmed decoded AFSK code is as follows:
[08:55] <youdontmeanmuch> 00:45:27$ fm KG7OYG-9 to VEGAS-0 via WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 UI PID=F0 !3610.19N/1158.20W-/A=001972/Ti=57/Te=91/V=8165 ROFL DOGE
[08:55] <youdontmeanmuch> does anybody see issues with our becon?
[08:56] <youdontmeanmuch> not seeing anything on http://aprs.fi/ :\
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[08:58] <Vaizki> wut.. WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2?
[08:58] <fsphil> nothing at all on aprs.fi suggests the packet isn't being uploaded
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[08:59] <fsphil> I wouldn't bother with a path
[09:00] <fsphil> not while in the air anyway
[09:00] <Vaizki> at least not with a WIDE2-2 path
[09:00] <youdontmeanmuch> yea, i was affraid our nearest digipeater wasn't getting anything
[09:00] <fsphil> you can have it switch based on altitude
[09:00] <youdontmeanmuch> but i drove over to this http://aprs.fi/info/a/AA5QJ-1 which seems to have been sending traffic over to VEGAS, and nothing
[09:01] <Vaizki> do you have your own receiver and afsk1200 decoder?
[09:01] <youdontmeanmuch> i'm confirming my message via listening on 144.390 and decoding the message
[09:01] <Vaizki> like qtmm
[09:01] <youdontmeanmuch> which is what i pasted in a minute ago
[09:02] <Vaizki> yea I wasn't sure if it was your radio and decoder
[09:02] <youdontmeanmuch> heh, well i'm listening on my handheld and decoding with microphone using "AFSK1200 Decoder"
[09:02] <youdontmeanmuch> and it seems to be able to decode the message okay
[09:04] <youdontmeanmuch> yep, i'm using qtmm
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[09:05] <youdontmeanmuch> so our destination path is set to VEGAS-0, trackduino comments suggest that this can be set to APRS-0, is that best?
[09:06] <fsphil> that's what I've used
[09:08] <youdontmeanmuch> cool, yea i'll swing by the Fill-In Home Station Digipeater again and try with that. just affraid my signal isn't reaching anything
[09:10] <Vaizki> how far away can you get it on your own radio?
[09:10] <youdontmeanmuch> well i haven't travelled to far for that test yet, i did try as far as half a mile and worked fine
[09:11] <youdontmeanmuch> maybe that will be what i do next, drive to the nearest digipeater and see if i am able to decode the signal
[09:11] <youdontmeanmuch> otherwise its gotta be something with my becon
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[09:19] <Vaizki> if you look at http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=ATSAT-4 you can see that they are using Base91 telemetry
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[09:20] <Vaizki> I'm no APRS expert, far from it..
[09:20] <youdontmeanmuch> @Vaizki you talking to me?
[09:20] <youdontmeanmuch> yea i noticed that
[09:20] <Vaizki> yea you made me look into aprs :)
[09:21] <Vaizki> what is the ROFL and DOGE at the end of your beacon? ;)
[09:22] <youdontmeanmuch> heh my buddy is a doge fan
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[09:51] <Zeusking19> Hey guys, I decided to make an arduino shield schematic+pcb design, and if anyone here has any experience in this matter, I noticed the coax connector has 4 ground pins, whereas the NTX2 only has two ground pins. Do all four ground pins on the coax connector have to be connected to something or am I fine with just two?
[09:51] <daveake> Fine with 1 actually
[09:51] <daveake> Electrically
[09:52] <Zeusking19> Fine with 1, better with 2?
[09:52] <daveake> But use all 4 for mechanical strength
[09:52] <Zeusking19> alright
[09:52] <Zeusking19> thanks
[09:53] <Zeusking19> I think I have the transmitter done in the schematic so that is good - just gonna hop back to the wiki to see what else should be on the tracker board
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[09:53] <Zeusking19> GPS comes to mind
[09:55] <daveake> useful, yes :)
[09:56] <Zeusking19> Annoyingly my options are limited here as I don't have facilities for surface mount components
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[10:00] <edmoore> Zeusking19, you probably do
[10:00] <edmoore> one doesn't need facilities really for smd
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[10:00] <edmoore> any more than for pth
[10:00] <edmoore> a steady hand and a decent iron let you solder both
[10:00] <Zeusking19> hm
[10:01] <UpuWork> tweezers
[10:01] <UpuWork> facility complete
[10:01] <daveake> :)
[10:02] <daveake> I've done probably 0.1% of the SMD soldering Upu and Ed have done, but I didn't find it hard
[10:02] <edmoore> i have done a lot of smd soldering
[10:02] <daveake> Tweezers and a decent iron and steady hand
[10:02] <edmoore> with stencils where i can get away with it but for years without
[10:03] <Zeusking19> hm
[10:03] <Zeusking19> alright, thanks :)
[10:03] <edmoore> no problem. don't fear smd. it really is as easy
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[10:06] <youdontmeanmuch> So we are testing our trackduino on the ground... so the radio is limited by the earths curve? when up in the air what really limits the radio waves distance of travel?
[10:07] <youdontmeanmuch> wish i would have paid more attention when getting my ham license :|
[10:07] <SpeedEvil> The horizon pretty much in many cases - if there is no local interferer at the reciever
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[10:07] <SpeedEvil> - at least for ~50bps FSK 10mW@433 - getting clear to the horizon - 600km away or so in some cases is quite possible with modest antennas on the bottom
[10:08] <youdontmeanmuch> so if there is no horizon, e.g. its high up in the air... how far could my trackduino send a signal? 5-10, 50 miles?
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[10:08] <SpeedEvil> Of course there is a horizon
[10:08] <Vaizki> 400 miles
[10:08] <youdontmeanmuch> hmm yea
[10:09] <Vaizki> http://www.qsl.net/w4sat/horizon.htm
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> http://tracker.habhub.org/?#!mt=roadmap&mz=6&qm=1_day&f=ATSAT-3 - for example
[10:09] <Vaizki> but that's theoretical
[10:09] <edmoore> line of sight usually is the limiting factor in hab where the tx frequency is >=VHF
[10:09] <youdontmeanmuch> so i guess for us to really test we are sending the correct signal we have to get closer to our target destination
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> Thi shows - in blue - the horizon for ATSAT3 - at 18km
[10:09] <edmoore> 600km is a quite reasonable figure for the sort of tx power and receicer sensitivities and antenna gains that we might use
[10:09] <youdontmeanmuch> since its alot farther than 5 miles
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> A large hill can work
[10:10] <youdontmeanmuch> i don't think our local digipeter wants to relay our becon
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> Or even a tall skyraper.
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> craper
[10:10] <Vaizki> skyWHAT
[10:10] <youdontmeanmuch> we sent out the becon on a 10th floor of a building
[10:10] <Vaizki> it's beacon dude
[10:10] <Vaizki> and digipeater :)
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[10:10] <youdontmeanmuch> but we are in the middle of downtown vegas
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> buildings are problematic as the windows can be RF opaque
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> There are special problems with transmitting in Vegas.
[10:11] <youdontmeanmuch> Vaizki, thanks for the link!
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
[10:11] <Vaizki> what you transmit in vegas.. damn
[10:11] <Vaizki> too slow
[10:12] <youdontmeanmuch> lol
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[10:15] <Vaizki> youdontmeanmuch, oh and btw what freq are you transmitting on? :)
[10:15] <Vaizki> there are different APRS frequencies in use around the world...
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[10:18] <Vaizki> AA5QJ-10 which I think you tried to use as a digipeater is @ 145.050MHz so I hope you are too
[10:19] <Vaizki> and not the primary 144.390 MHz
[10:21] <gonzo_> 145.050 is a voice repeater input in the uk
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[10:21] <Vaizki> oh that's a winlink sorry
[10:23] <youdontmeanmuch> ah nice, thanks Vaizki. i'll try on that frequency
[10:23] <Vaizki> no no :)
[10:23] <Vaizki> are you on 144.390?
[10:23] <youdontmeanmuch> yep
[10:23] <Vaizki> well that should work
[10:24] <gonzo_> there is a reasoable list of APRS frequencies on the wikipedia page for APRS
[10:25] <Vaizki> and AA5QJ-1 is seeing a lot of other stations around vegas so it should see you too http://aprs.fi/#!v=heard&call=a%2FAA5QJ-1&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[10:32] <Zeusking19> Another question regarding the PCB, the GPS input coax ground pins - can they go to Arduino ground? Or do they need to go somewhere else? The UBlox chip I plan to use only has RF_IN
[10:33] <gonzo_> you want the GPS antenna ground to be to the GPS PCB directly next to the RF input pin
[10:34] <gonzo_> and the shortest possible exposed (ie, not with braid around) centre core
[10:35] <Zeusking19> Sorry if I was confusing this, I'm building a PCB, I was wondering where the coax connector's ground pins should connect to - whether it is the Arduino or somewhere else
[10:35] <Vaizki> I think he's using an SMA connector, in which case you want the GPS chip to be as close to the connector as possible
[10:36] <Vaizki> I am under the impression that it would be marginally better to have a separate RF ground planes for the GPS (and for the radio transmitter) vs Arduino ground and then connect them via "thin traces"
[10:36] <youdontmeanmuch> Zeusking19, assuming it would connect to your transmitters ground
[10:36] <youdontmeanmuch> at least thats how i have mine connected atm
[10:37] <gonzo_> the gps chip/modules I've seen have RF ground pins either side of the RF in pin. So those would probably go to the groundplane and the connector would be on that ground plane
[10:37] <youdontmeanmuch> (if we are talking about the same thing)
[10:37] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, so the short answer is "yes, rf ground = arduino ground" but the long answer is reaaally long :)
[10:37] <Zeusking19> Alright, thanks guys - very helpful once again
[10:37] <Zeusking19> Unlike some hobbyist communities that immediately pass you off as an idiot -_-
[10:38] <gonzo_> we were all there omce
[10:38] <gonzo_> once
[10:38] <Vaizki> so are you using a bare ublox chip?
[10:38] <Vaizki> or a ready module that's going to be mounted via a pin header?
[10:38] <Vaizki> hmm I guess bare because a module would have the antenna connector ready
[10:38] <Zeusking19> Bare ublox
[10:39] <Zeusking19> My schematic is pretty disgusting in terms of layout
[10:41] <Zeusking19> Okay, so, the coax input goes to the ublox RF-IN, and then coax ground goes to arduino ground
[10:41] <Zeusking19> I think I have that right now, thank you again
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[10:42] <gonzo_> if you have a good groundplane on the back of the board and take the rf groung pins to that, via throughholes, as close to the GPS chip as poss. Then have your RFin pin trackes to the connbector, by a reasonably short track. And have the connector mounted through to the groundplane.... Then you should be OK, RF wise
[10:43] <Zeusking19> It makes me wonder if I am making a massive mistake by working on a custom board
[10:43] <gonzo_> the groundplane you use for the RF could extend across the whole board and also be used for the main DC grounds, if you wanted.
[10:43] <Vaizki> massive learning experience
[10:44] <gonzo_> RF sounds complicated, but it's pretty straight forward once you can visualise wjat's going on. Pictures help. IRC is not ideal
[10:45] <Vaizki> http://www.cmrprojects.co.za/Pics_GPS/uBlox5_IMG_2460(500x375).jpg
[10:45] <Vaizki> for example there you can see the RF ground plane (lighter green with holes) under the ublox
[10:45] <Vaizki> the holes are via's (plated holes through the board) which connect the top and bottom layers of the PCB
[10:46] <Vaizki> there is another ground plane under the board
[10:46] <edmoore> Zeusking19, there was no choice but to work on a custom board for the first 5-6 years of this hobby
[10:46] <edmoore> there were no deaths as a result of this
[10:46] <edmoore> only recently have people started to want to sell off-the-shelf trackers
[10:46] <edmoore> but it's completely unecessary
[10:46] <Vaizki> well GPS modules have been available for a long time
[10:46] <edmoore> and very wrong to think that custom stuff is only for non-new people. that's very much not the case
[10:47] <gonzo_> I don't even use a PCB, dead bug construction. (Well, OK, I have an UPU breakout board for the GPS)
[10:48] <Zeusking19> I guess my biggest issue is lack of ground planes
[10:48] <Zeusking19> I'm literally just wiring straight to ground which is probably stupid on my part
[10:48] <gonzo_> at RF, tracks start to look like inductors, and RF does not like going through inductors (very broard statement)
[10:49] <Vaizki> I'm a newbie as well and ground planes are the best thing ever
[10:49] <gonzo_> RF grounds want to be nice fat areas of copper and with generous amounts of through holes.
[10:50] <edmoore> there's a very good paper on mixed signal pcb layout that explains current return paths
[10:50] <edmoore> and how they change with frequency
[10:50] <edmoore> it should explain, partly, why ground planes are a good thing for minimising the amount of e-field emitted
[10:50] <edmoore> let me try and find
[10:51] <edmoore> http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5450
[10:52] <Zeusking19> thanks
[10:53] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, creating a ground plane in Eagle is very easy
[10:53] <Vaizki> don't fear it
[10:53] <Zeusking19> Just want to mention (put me down for this) but I don't use EAGLE
[10:54] <Zeusking19> At the moment I am using Altium CircuitStudio as I have a fully paid license for that.
[10:54] <Vaizki> well I would use that too if I had a licene
[10:55] <Zeusking19> annoyingly there does not seem to be much in the way of docs as it is a fairly new product
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[10:55] <Zeusking19> I would switch to eagle
[10:56] <Zeusking19> but then the UI just daunts me :P
[10:56] <Vaizki> ok well I would TRY it if I had a license :)
[10:56] <Vaizki> good thing about eagle is that there are ready made parts libraries galore
[10:57] <Zeusking19> Luckily CircuitStudio has an EAGLE library import system which is what I had to use to get some of this stuff imported
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[10:57] <Zeusking19> If I exported this board as a Gerber, I wonder if I could open it in EAGLE
[10:57] <Zeusking19> (Bit of a n00b with EAGLE so yeah :/)
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[11:01] <Vaizki> I don't think you want to try that..
[11:02] <Zeusking19> Would it just be easier to move to Eagle and just learn that?
[11:03] <zyp> isn't circuitstudio free?
[11:04] <Zeusking19> No, in fact it is rather expensive, however I do already have a license from when CircuitStudio was in a testing phase.
[11:04] <Zeusking19> (that was a benefit, do the testing then get license for life)
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[11:04] <Vaizki> well we can help with eagle and loads of tutorials on it
[11:04] <zyp> huh, I thought the point of circuitstudio was that it was free, but you couldn't generate production files without publishing the design openly
[11:05] <Vaizki> circuitmaker is free
[11:05] <Zeusking19> Vaizki beat me to it - CircuitMaker is a different product
[11:05] <zyp> oh, that's a different thing
[11:05] <Vaizki> or was.. I don't know if it's even alive
[11:05] <zyp> so what's circuitstudio? a closed-design version of circuitmaker?
[11:06] <Vaizki> I guess it's somewhere above eagle pro and below altium designer
[11:08] <Vaizki> also it's a bit weird that element14 owns eagle but is going to be the prime distributor of circuitstudio
[11:08] <zyp> they do?
[11:09] <Zeusking19> I did find that wierd to be honest - if CadSoft is part of Premier Farnell, why are they offering to distribute CircuitStudio in addition to their own product?
[11:09] <zyp> maybe because the products are in different price classes?
[11:10] <Zeusking19> Not sure what the pricing of Eagle is to be honest, I think CircuitStudio is hovering around the £1325 mark
[11:10] <zyp> I don't know circuitstudio, but eagle is kind of a joke compared to altium designer
[11:12] <Vaizki> I think eagle is about half price vs circuitstudio
[11:13] <Vaizki> altium designer is many times more expensive
[11:14] <zyp> so, what's the difference between altium designer and circuitstudio?
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: thanks!
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: bookmarked
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[11:16] <Zeusking19> Trying to slowly figure out Eagle :)
[11:16] <qyx_> mhm, that circuitstudio, again win only
[11:17] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, don't use wire, use nets. work on the schematic first, then go to the board.
[11:17] <Zeusking19> Alright Vaizki
[11:17] <Vaizki> lots of tutorials on the wbe
[11:17] <Vaizki> web
[11:18] <Zeusking19> I already have a schematic done in CircuitStudio, so I'll just try and draw it out the same way in EAGLE
[11:19] <Vaizki> here's a very short & simple getting started, https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-eagle-schematic
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[11:19] <Vaizki> with part 2 for board layout
[11:20] <Zeusking19> thanks for the link :)
[11:22] <Vaizki> that's basically 2 pages from idea to gerbers
[11:22] <Vaizki> covers also copper pours (such as ground plane)
[11:23] <Zeusking19> alright, thank you
[11:29] <Zeusking19> I noticed for the female coax connector should be listed as BU-SMA-A, however there is only components ending in G, H and V
[11:31] <Zeusking19> H seems to look the most similar so I'll just use that..
[11:38] <Zeusking19> Okay, so I just finished the schematic
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[11:45] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, upu will give you the right .lbr for the part
[11:45] <UpuWork> sup ?
[11:45] <Vaizki> sma end launch connector that is :)
[11:45] <Zeusking19> That's not an issue any more, the main issue now is that there are two airwires that don't seem to be appearing
[11:46] <Vaizki> Zeusking19 is also looking for BU-SMA-A, just like me yesterday :)
[11:46] <UpuWork> oh its in the old Sparkfun library
[11:46] <Vaizki> and named EDGE_SMA I think
[11:46] <UpuWork> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h4xaitcymiwv5pt/SparkFun.lbr?dl=0
[11:46] <Zeusking19> Thanks upu
[11:47] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, are you sure the nets are connected or named the same?
[11:47] <Vaizki> if you have airwires missing
[11:47] <Zeusking19> Pretty sure they are connected :/
[11:48] <Zeusking19> I'll try and make those nets again
[11:48] <Vaizki> try moving the parts a bit to see if the net moves
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[11:51] <Zeusking19> there we go, fixed
[11:51] <Zeusking19> Did the nets again and it fixed it - obviously I need to be a little better with connecting stuff
[11:52] <Zeusking19> I was doing ground planes for the coax connectors, wasn't I?
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[11:53] <Vaizki> you want a ground plane anyway
[11:54] <Vaizki> you MIGHT want to split the ground plane into a RF one and "digital" ground and then connect them but it's not straightforward in eagle
[11:55] <Zeusking19> Trying to find the coax connector in that SparkFun library
[11:55] <Vaizki> search for EDGE
[11:55] <Vaizki> and pour a ground plane covering the entire bottom of the PCB
[11:55] <Vaizki> before you start routing
[11:56] <Vaizki> also take into account that I learned this last week starting from zero so I might have gotten it wrong.. but I'm your best hope it seems ;)
[11:57] <Zeusking19> ;)
[11:57] <Zeusking19> Okay, so, I searched EDGE and it's not there :/
[11:57] <Vaizki> did you activate the new library upu gave you?
[11:57] <Zeusking19> yep
[11:57] <Vaizki> hmm
[11:58] <Zeusking19> gonna restart EAGLE just to be sure
[11:58] <Zeusking19> chances are I did something wrong as usual
[11:59] <edmoore> when you say 'activate' - that means you hit the 'use' button, yep?
[11:59] <Zeusking19> yep
[11:59] <edmoore> cool
[11:59] <Zeusking19> It's not under the library in the EAGLE Control Panel either
[11:59] <edmoore> oh
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[12:00] <Vaizki> ah it's SMA_EDGE
[12:00] <Vaizki> my bad
[12:00] <Zeusking19> got it, thanks :)
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[12:01] <Vaizki> eagle search does not find SMA_EDGE with "EDGE", you have to use "*EDGE"
[12:01] <edmoore> oh that's a good point
[12:01] <edmoore> i tend to just wrap everything in asterices
[12:02] <edmoore> *r0805* will get 0805 resistors even if they're 'EU_r0805k' or whatever
[12:05] <Zeusking19> good to know
[12:05] <Zeusking19> Right, so, I have a basic board here that has no ground planes yet, that's my next job
[12:05] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/85556d764884c9db87b872dc75bb4be3 for an image if you are curious
[12:05] <Zeusking19> If my layout is bad (which I bet it will be), please let me know on what could be changed
[12:05] <edmoore> well, you've got the bits you need
[12:05] <edmoore> there is still work to be done on the components
[12:06] <edmoore> eg decoupling capacitors for the gps
[12:06] <Zeusking19> alright
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[12:06] <edmoore> you'll want to keep the gps and radio outputs away from each other
[12:06] <Zeusking19> right, so move the radio output?
[12:07] <edmoore> yes
[12:07] <edmoore> they can both be on the same board edge, but i wouldn't have them right next to each other
[12:07] <edmoore> and check that they won't hit with the usb connector on the arduino underneath
[12:07] <Vaizki> edmoore, how do I do vias between top & bottom ground plane btw?
[12:07] <Zeusking19> So like this instead: http://gyazo.com/96b65dc328d41dcb702e899342eed7da
[12:07] <edmoore> there's a little green circle symbol
[12:07] <Vaizki> can I just pour them both and then nail vias through?
[12:08] <mattbrejza> middle mouse button while routing
[12:08] <edmoore> 2/3rds down on the left
[12:08] <mattbrejza> oh ignore me
[12:08] <Vaizki> mattbrejza, I'm not routing, I have .. yes :)
[12:08] <mattbrejza> helps to read the full sentence
[12:08] <Vaizki> ah ok now I have vias but they are isolated from both planes so I need to rename the vias to GND?
[12:09] <edmoore> so you can drop a via (i'd make it about as small as your fab allows) and then right click on it and 'name' it with 'GND' or whatever your ground signal name is
[12:09] <Vaizki> yea great
[12:10] <Vaizki> and then copy it all over
[12:10] <Vaizki> seems to work, thanks
[12:11] <edmoore> Zeusking19, better but they need to be rotated 90 degrees
[12:11] <edmoore> think about how they mount
[12:13] <Zeusking19> ah, so, like this? http://gyazo.com/5e95ab88796ec4e06ecb3dd1c2a3abe8
[12:13] <edmoore> bingo
[12:13] <edmoore> and take them right up to the edge
[12:14] <edmoore> you'll get DRC errors for that (having a signal too close to the board edge) but in this case you ignore it because it's an edge connection
[12:14] <Zeusking19> okay
[12:14] <Vaizki> maybe I gave bad advice, maybe zeus doesn't have the SMA launch connector?
[12:15] <Vaizki> http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R5265785-20.jpg
[12:15] <Vaizki> does it look like that?
[12:15] <Zeusking19> Just to mention, I don't own any of these components yet
[12:15] <Vaizki> ah ok :)
[12:16] <Zeusking19> But I was looking at this one: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=59
[12:16] <Vaizki> well that connector goes on the edge of the board
[12:16] <Vaizki> oh
[12:16] <Vaizki> that's different sorry :(
[12:16] <Vaizki> the part SMA_EDGE is for http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=74
[12:16] <Vaizki> my bad again!
[12:17] <Zeusking19> no worries, I can always use that one
[12:18] <Zeusking19> This ground plane thing is confusing me
[12:19] <Vaizki> draw polygon, name it GND, press ratsnest?
[12:20] <Zeusking19> what layer is that on?
[12:20] <Zeusking19> Pads?
[12:24] <Zeusking19> RIGHT
[12:25] <Zeusking19> Sorry for the capitals there
[12:25] <Zeusking19> Uh, so, I figured out how to make a polygon on the top layer
[12:25] <Zeusking19> is that literally it? And then I just route ground to it?
[12:26] <zyp> you just name the polygon gnd, and then it'll make connection itself
[12:26] <Zeusking19> Any ideas Vaizki or edmoore?
[12:26] <Zeusking19> hm
[12:26] <zyp> I mean, it connects to everything that's part of it's net, and stays away from anything else
[12:26] <zyp> so you have to set the net to gnd
[12:28] <Zeusking19> I have a feeling I'm just doing something completely wrong here
[12:29] <Vaizki> I would suggest putting it on the bottom layer
[12:29] <Vaizki> when you select the polygon tool you get the layer selection at the top of the window
[12:29] <Vaizki> then just draw the polygon so it's closed
[12:29] <Vaizki> take the "Name" tool, click on the poly edge and type in GND
[12:30] <Vaizki> if you use GND as the name of your ground nets
[12:30] <Vaizki> then press rats nest and it should make the ground plane
[12:31] <Zeusking19> Alright..
[12:33] <Zeusking19> Okay, so now it is complaining that the name "GND" already exists
[12:34] <edmoore> sorry was getting lunch
[12:34] <edmoore> now eating lunch
[12:34] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, umm it should allow you to combine the 2 nets
[12:35] <Vaizki> use the name tool, not the info window
[12:35] <Vaizki> don't ask why you can't just change the name in the info window. I have no idea.
[12:35] <Vaizki> eagle is like that. learn magic moves. repeat. run into wall. google moar moves.
[12:36] <Zeusking19> So I did that - hit the ratsnest button and nothing seems to have changed
[12:36] <Zeusking19> The groudn nets and the polygons have the same name
[12:37] <edmoore> screenshot
[12:38] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/a39b76f112d28944cccd8552884a4e9f - I do have three polygons, One for GPS Ground, the other for Transmitter Ground, then just generalised ground
[12:38] <Zeusking19> not sure that'll make a difference thugh
[12:38] <Zeusking19> though*
[12:38] <edmoore> are they all called GND?
[12:38] <Vaizki> wut
[12:38] <edmoore> and what are you expecting to happen with that?
[12:38] <edmoore> Vaizki, stay calm
[12:38] <edmoore> we'll get through this the socratic way
[12:39] <Zeusking19> GND, TRANS_GND and GPS_GND
[12:39] <Zeusking19> and based on the way you have reacted I have done something totally stupid
[12:39] <edmoore> sort of yes
[12:39] <edmoore> well not stupid
[12:39] <edmoore> just very odd
[12:39] <Zeusking19> let me just go and cut this down to one plane then
[12:39] <edmoore> so firstly your polygons don't intersect any pads or vias or anything
[12:39] <edmoore> so they won't connect to anything
[12:39] <edmoore> you see that right?
[12:40] <Vaizki> just make one polygon exactly the size of the whole shield
[12:40] <Vaizki> and name it GND
[12:40] <edmoore> you can make it bigger than the outline and it'll autoclip to the outline
[12:40] <Vaizki> if you want to do split ground planes later, you can redo the planes easily but start with a single one covering the whole bottom of the board
[12:42] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/812a6d9a7c850d4ca04004f6b53cf302 is what I ended up with in the end
[12:42] <Vaizki> there you go
[12:43] <Zeusking19> and then I just run the autorouter?
[12:43] <Vaizki> why skip the most fun part?
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[12:43] <edmoore> never autoroute
[12:43] <edmoore> ever
[12:44] <Vaizki> do you understand what happened here, zeus?
[12:44] <Zeusking19> right..
[12:44] <Vaizki> can you see the pads that are GND.. they have little + shaped traces to the ground plane
[12:44] <Vaizki> everything else is isolated from the ground plane
[12:45] <Zeusking19> now you say that, I do see a little + shape on each ground pin
[12:45] <Zeusking19> heh, I would have given up ages ago if you guys were not here :P
[12:45] <Vaizki> guess why they are connected like that
[12:46] <Zeusking19> because of the massive ground plane covering the entire of the pcb?
[12:46] <Vaizki> well mostly because of the massive heatsink you just created which would make soldering a bit less fun
[12:46] <Vaizki> so the little + shaped traces are thermals
[12:47] <Zeusking19> Was soldering ever fun to begin with?
[12:47] <Vaizki> (if you turn thermals for the polygon and hit ratsnest, those + shapes disappear)
[12:47] <Vaizki> turn off
[12:47] <edmoore> [12:45] <Zeusking19> heh, I would have given up ages ago if you guys were not here :P
[12:48] <Vaizki> don't do it though
[12:48] <edmoore> that's why we're here!
[12:48] <edmoore> this is just the place to learn stuff
[12:48] <edmoore> makes it all much more fun and much less dead-endy
[12:48] <Zeusking19> :P
[12:49] <Zeusking19> so the next thing to figure out is routing
[12:49] <Zeusking19> without overlapping anything
[12:50] <Vaizki> start by moving the components around (with 4-way arrow tool) and press right mouse button to rotate.. try to get them into better positions
[12:50] <edmoore> get the radio output close to the sma connector for the radio
[12:50] <edmoore> likewise the gps
[12:51] <edmoore> you might want some general purpose LEDs on there for indicating stuff
[12:51] <Vaizki> like "Flux capacitor overload"
[12:51] <Zeusking19> oh crud
[12:52] <Zeusking19> what was mentioned about capacitors with the GPS earlier?
[12:52] <edmoore> decoupling capacitors
[12:52] <edmoore> are you sitting comfortably?
[12:52] <Vaizki> hehe
[12:52] <edmoore> then I'll begin
[12:52] <edmoore> digital electronics is something we are used to working with
[12:52] <Vaizki> don't worry, you can go back & forth between schematic and board, adding stuff
[12:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO6SOM-8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DO6SOM-8
[12:52] <edmoore> we say things like 'the gps takes 20mA'
[12:53] <edmoore> at 3.3V or whatever
[12:53] <edmoore> however the true story is more complicated
[12:53] <edmoore> digital electronics is made up of lots of transistors arranged together to do things
[12:53] <edmoore> transistors in digital electronics are usually in one of two states - high or low, or alternatively, on or off
[12:54] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, just add components on the schematic side, they will appear outside the board area in the board window, then just move into place
[12:54] <edmoore> when off they use basically no current
[12:54] <edmoore> when on they have very very low resistence so use basically no current (or at least dissipate almost no current)
[12:54] <Zeusking19> riiigght...
[12:54] <daveake> power
[12:55] <edmoore> however digital electronics is governed by clocks - we provide digital circuits with a clock which makes all the trasnsistors change state at the same time
[12:55] <edmoore> so everything stays synchronised
[12:55] <edmoore> when a transistor is switching from high to low or low to high, that's when it dissipates the most power
[12:55] <edmoore> many many times more than when it's on or off, which it is for the majority of the time
[12:55] <Vaizki> ed is taking the scenic route, I'll get a cup of coffee as well...
[12:56] <Zeusking19> Vaizki, It's too early for coffee for me :P
[12:56] <edmoore> so actually, a gps that uses '20mA' might actually, at the scale of nanoseconds, spend most of the time using 1mA but on the clock transitions, for a very very short time, use say 500mA
[12:56] <edmoore> it's actually a very bumpy road
[12:56] <edmoore> so, what does this mean?
[12:57] <edmoore> it means our circuit board needs to be able to supply really quite high currents very very quickly
[12:57] <edmoore> just for a very short time
[12:57] <edmoore> why is that a problem?
[12:57] <Zeusking19> Otherwise the board will brown out..?
[12:57] <edmoore> yes exactly
[12:57] <edmoore> why would it brown out? because the circuit board can't provide enough charge quickly enough
[12:58] <edmoore> why would that happen? because of inductance!
[12:58] <edmoore> inductance is a property of any device whereby a magnetic field builds up when current flows which limits the rate of change of current
[12:59] <edmoore> circuit board traces have some inductance, just like they have some resistence (they're not perfectly resistance free, they're not perfectly inductance free)
[12:59] <edmoore> so they will resist sudden chages in current very slightly
[12:59] <edmoore> planes help minimise this btw
[12:59] sv9qct (~textual@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[12:59] <edmoore> but anyway, we get round this but have a local store of charge very close to the digital device
[12:59] <edmoore> which can supply all the charge needed very quickly during the clock transition
[13:00] <edmoore> this 'decouples' the local current requirements of the chip from effects from the power supply traces
[13:00] <edmoore> it also stops the power supply traces wobbling up and down in voltage struggling to supply charge (and wobbling voltages along a conductor are otherwise known as... an antenna)
[13:01] <edmoore> so we stick capacitors right by the power pins
[13:01] <edmoore> ususally 100nF
[13:01] <edmoore> usually in an 0603 package
[13:01] <edmoore> that's what i'd recommend you do here
[13:01] <Vaizki> 0603 being a SMD package size
[13:01] <Zeusking19> (yay, more SMD)
[13:03] <Vaizki> also decoupling goes beyond simple caps when switching frequencies go up but I was told not to worry about it until I have external clocks in excess of 50MHz
[13:03] <Vaizki> so I just pushed that stuff into the "Later" box in my mind
[13:04] <Vaizki> might have been the "Never" box actually
[13:04] <edmoore> that's correct
[13:04] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg38779xbue5dbt/Screenshot%202014-11-04%2011.39.49.png?dl=0
[13:04] <edmoore> Zeusking19, ^
[13:04] <edmoore> do you see what i've done there
[13:05] <edmoore> there i have a capacitor fedding the power lines on a chip
[13:05] <edmoore> i have a 4 layer pcb there where one layer is gnd and one is power so i just dropped a via down to each on the other side of the cap
[13:09] <Vaizki> you might have lost him at 4 layers there
[13:12] <edmoore> lesley gore has died
[13:12] <Zeusking19> Sorry about that
[13:12] <edmoore> this is significant to hab
[13:12] <Zeusking19> Got called away to do something else, wasn't ignoring you
[13:12] <edmoore> because sunshine lollipops was the song we'd play at 3am when we were still working on the mars parachute drop vehicle
[13:12] <edmoore> and everything was terrible
[13:13] <edmoore> and we were all the 4 of us in a basement hating each other and everything
[13:13] <edmoore> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zBoD_ojxFA
[13:13] <Zeusking19> ???
[13:13] <edmoore> we actually acknowledged her in the paper we submitted to AIAA
[13:13] <Zeusking19> right, so this capacitor goes on the power lines, right?
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[13:14] <edmoore> Zeusking19,
[13:14] <edmoore> yes
[13:15] <edmoore> physically close to the gps power pins
[13:15] <Zeusking19> may I ask where you find these capacitors in EAGLE?
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[13:15] <Vaizki> *C0603*
[13:16] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kof1qt78emmm1r5/Screenshot%202015-02-17%2013.15.39.png?dl=0
[13:16] <edmoore> make it 100n
[13:18] <Zeusking19> Just to be extra sure, that's going into the VCC line on the GPS chip
[13:18] <edmoore> yes
[13:19] <edmoore> Zeusking19, this is from a design of mine https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ts6bhzqdetfs5y/Screenshot%202015-02-17%2013.19.24.png?dl=0
[13:19] <edmoore> there i actually have a smaller 100n then a bigger 10u
[13:20] <edmoore> but that's not that necessary
[13:20] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/634615fdcbe79eb490d790a4f91343f5 is what I have now
[13:21] <edmoore> have you downloaded the ublox8 hardware integration manual?
[13:21] <Zeusking19> Indeed I have.
[13:22] <edmoore> ok
[13:22] <edmoore> that should help
[13:22] <edmoore> i'd get your cap as close as possible
[13:22] <Vaizki> btw, does it hurt to oversize decoupling caps? I'd think not?
[13:22] <Zeusking19> so closer than it already is?
[13:22] <edmoore> leave a mm so you can get a soldering iron in of course
[13:22] <edmoore> Vaizki, yes it does
[13:22] <edmoore> because it's all about package inductance
[13:23] <Vaizki> ok.. so why is it pretty much always 0.1uF
[13:23] <edmoore> you want really low inductance, the high energy density ceramic caps are much worse for that
[13:23] <edmoore> it isn't, for stuff i do i have to think about it often
[13:23] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/aaae45dcbb56f66afa35182685435aad
[13:23] <edmoore> but for the basical simple microcontrollery world, 0u1 is basically fine, a happy compromise
[13:23] <edmoore> 10n would probably be ok, 470n might also be ok
[13:24] <edmoore> you just want enough local charge sloshing about without going mad
[13:24] <Vaizki> sure
[13:24] <edmoore> Zeusking19, better
[13:24] <edmoore> you'll note you still have an airwire on those 3 gps pins
[13:24] <edmoore> i suspect you dragged from 1st to 3rd
[13:25] <edmoore> but eagle is stupid and wants to you do 1st to 2nd then 2nd to 3rd
[13:25] <Vaizki> zeus, your priority in layout is to get the RF side in proximity
[13:25] <Zeusking19> Wait, hold on
[13:25] <Zeusking19> huh
[13:26] <Vaizki> I mean antenna pins close to antenna connectors
[13:26] <Zeusking19> Okay, wait, so hold on, first we are talking about airwires, then we are talking about RF sides
[13:26] <edmoore> yes
[13:26] <Zeusking19> what on earth do you want me to get my head around first?
[13:26] <Vaizki> :D
[13:27] <Zeusking19> oh, wait, edmoore, are you referring to the routing on the gps pins?
[13:27] <Vaizki> oh I have about 42 other tips & tricks if you run out of things to think about!
[13:27] <edmoore> Zeusking19, yes
[13:27] <Zeusking19> alright, yeah, I just fixed that
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[13:29] <daveake> You have now earned the right to wear one of these https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/14248405503_a47ed6bb0f.jpg
[13:31] <edmoore> http://i.imgur.com/krDY1QT.jpg
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[13:32] <UpuWork> GoT 2115 edition ?
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[13:33] <edmoore> tyrion laser-star
[13:33] <UpuWork> haha
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[13:34] <Flerb> When feeding a dipole, does it make more sense to feed it with ladder line and have the balun closer to the radio or to feed with coax and connect the elements directly
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[13:35] <edmoore> balun near the dipole
[13:35] <edmoore> coax vs ladder is neither here nor there for me
[13:35] <edmoore> wouldn't use ladder generally but i'm not a ham, and not that interested in hf
[13:36] <Flerb> edmoore: ah.
[13:36] <Flerb> I've been meaning to get on the air, just to see what it is like
[13:36] <Flerb> I've got the radio, PSU etc
[13:36] <adamgreig> feed with coax, balun at dipole
[13:36] <adamgreig> much happier
[13:36] <Flerb> just no aerial system
[13:36] <Flerb> I'm sort of inclined to build one
[13:36] <adamgreig> don't need to worry about everything between the dipole and you anything like so much
[13:37] <daveake> verical is better than inclined
[13:37] <adamgreig> it can be fun, worth a go. i made a huge dipole in my garden once for 80m
[13:37] <Flerb> But it's really time consuming
[13:37] <Flerb> and money consuming
[13:37] <Laurenceb> ive always just used a length of coax with the center stripped
[13:37] <adamgreig> 'a length' eh
[13:37] <Zeusking19> trying to figure out how I am going to route this..
[13:37] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:37] <adamgreig> for hf that is a lot of stripping
[13:37] <Laurenceb> oh
[13:37] <Laurenceb> sorry i thought we were talking 434mhz
[13:37] <adamgreig> :P
[13:38] <Flerb> I could use coax, but isn't it kind of a waste?
[13:38] <adamgreig> yea don't use coax for the dipole itself
[13:38] <Laurenceb> for HF, yes
[13:38] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:38] <Flerb> Not sure what kind of wire to use. And I don't quite get what ratio my balun will need to be
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[13:41] <Flerb> a 1:1 balun would be used when the characteristic impedance of the antenna matches the characteristic impedance of the line, right?
[13:42] <edmoore> yes
[13:44] <Flerb> so if I used wire from coax it'd be the same as the wire in the feed (50 ohm)
[13:44] <adamgreig> a dipole isn't 50 ohm
[13:45] <adamgreig> the coax is 50 ohm (so long as it remains coax, not if you just strip the wire out of it)
[13:45] <adamgreig> typically you want like a 4:1 balun? or just a good choke works and wire the coax core and shield to either leg of the dipole (this is a bit dirtier)
[13:46] <Flerb> my brain hurts. how do you know the impedance of the dipole?
[13:47] <adamgreig> it's 75 ohms roughly (if exactly the right length)
[13:47] <adamgreig> (it's quite sensitive to length)
[13:48] <Vaizki> this stuff is so beyond me my brain isn't even starting to hurt yet
[13:49] <adamgreig> dipoles and RF generally can seem a bit magical if explained poorly
[13:50] <adamgreig> a lot of hams seem to mostly believe they _are_ just magic
[13:50] <Zeusking19> edmoore, Vaizki: Okay, so, I've almost finished routing, it's just I have airwires going to both of the coax connectors, but it won't let me route them on anything but the bottom layer
[13:50] <Flerb> So surely if one was using a 4:1 balun, it would make it 25 ohm
[13:50] <edmoore> Zeusking19, i doubt that
[13:50] <adamgreig> Flerb: I recommend just trying to copy an existing design first and foremost, get it working, get some contacts on HF
[13:50] <adamgreig> then think about analysing it
[13:51] <Zeusking19> edmoore: http://gyazo.com/dbaa8330de62280967e26ccb1818354d this is what is happening at the moment, not exactly sure why
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[13:51] <UpuWork> you have no GND plane on top layer
[13:51] <edmoore> can you do full-screen shots
[13:51] <UpuWork> to link them
[13:51] <edmoore> these keyhold views are irritating
[13:51] <Zeusking19> Full-screen shots I can certainly do
[13:51] <Zeusking19> Sorry :(
[13:51] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, that part has multiple ground connections. just tie them all together in the schematic
[13:51] <edmoore> no need to apologise
[13:51] <edmoore> just i can't see what's connected to what
[13:52] <Vaizki> 2 of them will be on the top layer and 2 on the bottom
[13:52] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/d2aa200ceddbe065f57958106e53cd66
[13:52] <UpuWork> punch some GND via's through
[13:53] <UpuWork> or make a top poly gnd
[13:53] <edmoore> well
[13:53] <edmoore> for now pause
[13:53] <edmoore> as you really want to change a lot of that by a large amount
[13:53] <edmoore> there is much to learn here
[13:53] <UpuWork> ah yes
[13:53] <Zeusking19> knew I did the routing wrong .-.
[13:53] <UpuWork> :)
[13:53] <edmoore> ok
[13:53] <edmoore> so
[13:53] <edmoore> this is harder than joining the dots
[13:53] <edmoore> physics matters
[13:54] <edmoore> some traces are more important that others
[13:54] <Zeusking19> *holds Ctrl-Z until all traces are gone*
[13:54] <edmoore> presumably you've seen the bit in the ublox hardware integration manual about how to route to the antenna connection?
[13:54] <edmoore> you want to really study that manual, it's not mills&boon, it's all good important stuff
[13:55] <edmoore> the gps signals are *so* weak, you want the minimal amount of resistance between the antenna and the gps receiver
[13:55] <edmoore> that means very short traces
[13:55] <edmoore> so you need to move the gps module up close to the connector
[13:55] <Vaizki> yea a GPS satellite is like a light bulb in the sky, illuminating half the earth
[13:55] <edmoore> so that the fr_in and rf_gnd pins are all sligned
[13:55] <edmoore> rf_in*
[13:56] <Zeusking19> wait, aligned?
[13:56] <edmoore> lining up with, not touching
[13:56] <edmoore> also, drc would have caught this, but you you noticed that in the ntx2 your rf-out is going straight through the rf_gnd pin next to it?
[13:57] <edmoore> oh god yes
[13:57] <Vaizki> there is also something wonky with ground nets, he has traces from GND on the top layer there
[13:57] <edmoore> at the moment it's miles away
[13:57] <edmoore> and goes round lots of corners
[13:57] <Zeusking19> Right.
[13:57] <Vaizki> sharp corners
[13:57] <edmoore> wopps ignore that
[13:57] <Zeusking19> I've started fresh
[13:57] <Zeusking19> Removed all of those traces
[13:57] <Zeusking19> just back to airwires
[13:58] <edmoore> adamgreig, yo
[13:58] <edmoore> Zeusking19 needs your technical drawing about ntx2 layout
[13:58] <Zeusking19> at the moment I'm trying to figure out where I can best place the GPS module to get it as close as possible
[13:59] <Vaizki> close to the edge with the RF out and RF gnd pins pointing at the edge...
[13:59] <edmoore> Zeusking19, here is an example gps layout from a very old design of mine
[13:59] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/doirra840dzodaq/Screenshot%202015-02-17%2013.59.25.png?dl=0
[13:59] <adamgreig> edmoore: it didn't get copied over from my old server ;(
[13:59] <Vaizki> although I've no idea if it's even a good idea to take the GPS antenna off the board
[14:00] <edmoore> can you see how the gps edge connector is very close to the rf_in side of the gps?
[14:00] <adamgreig> recreating
[14:00] <edmoore> and that apart from the gps stuff, it's just ground plane all around there?
[14:00] <edmoore> that's what you want to disturb the delicate gps signal as litle as possible
[14:00] <edmoore> there i have gnd plane on the bottom and the top layers
[14:00] <edmoore> and i've stitched them together with vias
[14:01] <edmoore> this is what i mean when i say close
[14:01] <Zeusking19> Okay, hold up, so even this won't even cut it: http://gyazo.com/e5e910e92bc15eb587f90e84db19a8aa
[14:01] <Vaizki> and you have a split gnd plane for RF and digital
[14:01] <Vaizki> rotate the chip
[14:02] <Zeusking19> So more like this? http://gyazo.com/9ed4695320bf8236aefe74dd9ba9539a
[14:03] <Vaizki> edmoore, that via right next to the trace bridging the ground planes is scary
[14:03] <adamgreig> Zeusking19: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0cxbyyojeohp76l/AAAsVcb5kZ7kdsuBGpWRpKC3a
[14:03] <Vaizki> Zeusking19, miles better
[14:03] <adamgreig> apologies for rotation and ignore the maths
[14:04] <Zeusking19> wait hold on, so there is something wrong with the NTX as well now?
[14:04] <Vaizki> same wrongness
[14:04] <adamgreig> several things :P
[14:04] <Zeusking19> lol, thanks guys
[14:04] <edmoore> there is a lot of wrong Zeusking19
[14:04] <edmoore> but don't worry
[14:04] <Zeusking19> it's learning I guess :P
[14:04] <edmoore> you've never done this before
[14:04] <edmoore> no one expects you to just know
[14:04] <edmoore> this is why we're here :0
[14:04] <edmoore> :) *
[14:05] <edmoore> this is all the stuff you'd learn on a job or on an EE degree, compressed into a few hours on IRC
[14:05] <adamgreig> edmoore: https://agg.io/u/ntx2.jpg
[14:06] <adamgreig> might redo it again one day
[14:06] <adamgreig> it comes up surprisingly often
[14:06] <edmoore> yep
[14:06] <Zeusking19> I've changed the layout a bit in regards to getting the stuff closer, is this better in that respect? http://gyazo.com/5c2bb5439a0903243071d56cc0e4dfc2
[14:06] <Zeusking19> And thank you for the support everyone - i really appreciate it
[14:07] <edmoore> *much*
[14:07] <edmoore> 100% better
[14:07] <Flerb> adamgreig: where might I find such designs?
[14:07] <edmoore> how are you communicating with your gps btw?
[14:07] <adamgreig> Flerb: god knows, ham radio websites from the early 80s probably, good luck
[14:07] <edmoore> Zeusking19, however, i might still put the gps on the end
[14:07] <edmoore> that way you only have cables coming out of the ends of the pcbs
[14:07] <edmoore> not the sides as well
[14:08] <edmoore> which will making mounting in a box a lot easier
[14:08] <edmoore> but that's perhaps a premature optimisation and i don't want to overload you too early :)
[14:08] <Zeusking19> to answer the question about communication, I2C using the GPS Module SDA/SCL lines
[14:08] <edmoore> sure, so long as you're happy with that that's fine
[14:09] <Zeusking19> trouble I have with it on the same edge is that the routing will be pain
[14:09] <edmoore> no it won't
[14:09] <edmoore> you've got loads of room
[14:09] <edmoore> promise :)
[14:10] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/6e6dc4f52fd709d0f99a25ba075263d5 how is that?
[14:10] <Zeusking19> just saw the rogue cap
[14:10] <Zeusking19> will move that now
[14:10] <Zeusking19> xD
[14:11] <edmoore> perfect
[14:11] <Zeusking19> fixed that
[14:11] <Zeusking19> Right, so I think that's one problem out of many fixed
[14:11] <Zeusking19> namely the distances
[14:11] <edmoore> yep
[14:12] <edmoore> the hard thing with pcb design is usually just figuring out where everything should be
[14:12] <Vaizki> I would nove the NTX2 a littlebit down to get a single curve in the trace for rf_out
[14:12] <edmoore> if you get it right the routing usually just takes care of itself
[14:12] <Vaizki> and replace that vertical NTX2 part with the "lounging on a pcb" version
[14:12] <Vaizki> which is just a different outline
[14:12] <Zeusking19> riight
[14:12] <Vaizki> it's not very robust on the bottom
[14:13] <Zeusking19> lemme change the NTX real quick
[14:13] <Vaizki> there's a special command to replace a part in eagle toolbar
[14:13] <Vaizki> lets you keep the connections
[14:13] <edmoore> ch pac $PACKAGENAME
[14:13] <edmoore> assuming it's the same device in the library just with optional layout packages
[14:13] <edmoore> but in this case thatr might be sprinting before you can jog
[14:14] <Vaizki> hehe
[14:14] <Vaizki> I didn't know that..
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[14:15] <edmoore> knowing eagle fairly well is one of those annoying bits of knowledge that i sort of wish i didn't have
[14:15] <edmoore> it's not like worthwhile knoweledge
[14:15] <Vaizki> and you still have some of the GND wonkiness
[14:15] <adamgreig> yeh, should have learnt kicad instead :P
[14:15] <edmoore> it doesn't feel like a great investment
[14:15] <edmoore> but i do know it now
[14:15] <edmoore> yes probably
[14:15] <edmoore> but building it on osx the other month put me off again for a while
[14:15] <Vaizki> for some reason the NTX2 ground is not getting tied to ground plane
[14:15] <edmoore> or rather trying to build it
[14:16] <Flerb> I was thinking about integrating the ATmega328p into my project. Where might I start?
[14:16] <Zeusking19> Just changed the NTX2
[14:16] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/d5a8199074bbdc370e90e163e4db20eb
[14:17] <Vaizki> now rotate it 180 again :D
[14:17] <edmoore> lol yes
[14:17] <Zeusking19> just noticed that xD
[14:17] <Vaizki> and fix the ground connections
[14:18] <edmoore> that's probably a job for your schematic
[14:18] <edmoore> make sure both rf_gnds are connected to gnd
[14:18] <Zeusking19> wait, hold on
[14:18] <Vaizki> and also the arduino ground on the lower header is not connected to gnd
[14:18] <Vaizki> and the ntx2 supply gnd (in the 4-pin group) is not connected
[14:20] <Zeusking19> I can't see that issue on my screen, and I have to leave for about 5-10 minutes
[14:20] <Zeusking19> So I'll be back then - thank you!
[14:20] <edmoore> gluck
[14:20] <Vaizki> well with a ground plane, you should never see airwires from through holes (like NTX2 mounting) to GND
[14:21] <Vaizki> they should just get tied to GND automatically by the rats nest evaluation
[14:23] <Vaizki> oh and that decoupling capacitor is wired up wrong, it should connect to GND on one side, not be inline in the power supply
[14:24] <Vaizki> that'll keep him busy, I gotta run :)
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[14:26] <db_g6gzh> if that's a 5V arduino then it needs level shifting on the I2C to the ublox
[14:28] <db_g6gzh> also the 3V3 may not supply enough current
[14:31] <Zeusking19> Hello world
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[14:32] <edmoore> oh great, analog.com has had a redesign
[14:32] <edmoore> to look more shit
[14:32] <edmoore> it's all scrolley and there are infographics
[14:32] <edmoore> and whitespace!
[14:32] <Zeusking19> I still can't find the docs for their ADXL series
[14:32] <Zeusking19> still
[14:32] <edmoore> and banners with changing pictures
[14:32] <edmoore> it's like it's still 2014
[14:32] <Flerb> Nothing that I'm planning on putting on this board works at the same voltage.
[14:32] <Flerb> typical.
[14:33] <Zeusking19> Okay, so, edmoore, something about ground, I see that little + symbol on the lower ground pin so I would think that is connected to the ground plane
[14:33] <edmoore> correct
[14:33] <Flerb> edmoore: http://arduino-info.wikispaces.com/HOME
[14:33] <edmoore> it should be on all the grounds
[14:33] <Flerb> Looks beautiful rihgt?
[14:34] <Zeusking19> It is on all of the grounds indeed
[14:34] <edmoore> ok
[14:34] <edmoore> you're fine then
[14:34] <edmoore> the '+' is what's called a thermal
[14:34] <edmoore> so you might think you'd just solidly connect to a via/pad all the way round
[14:34] <Zeusking19> right
[14:35] <edmoore> but actually that can make soldering a pain as the heat gets absorbed into the via very easily
[14:35] <Zeusking19> Okay, hold up
[14:35] <Zeusking19> I see what you mean now
[14:35] <edmoore> sorry, the heat from the iron, when you put it onto the via, gets absorbed into the surrounding copper plane
[14:35] <edmoore> via/pad
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[14:35] <edmoore> and copper is great at conducting away heat
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[14:36] <Zeusking19> The NTX2 and GND2 (Arduino) have no thermal on them, instead they have an airwire linking them
[14:36] <Zeusking19> Not sure why
[14:36] <Vaizki> which means they are not part of the same net
[14:36] <edmoore> yeah
[14:36] <edmoore> you want to fix tat
[14:36] <Zeusking19> Nevermind, fixed
[14:37] <Zeusking19> Yeah, I got it :P
[14:37] <Zeusking19> Right, so what were the other issues?
[14:37] <Vaizki> see how easy it is to get ird of airwires without even routing ;)
[14:37] <Vaizki> rid
[14:37] <edmoore> i think you're good to try routing again Zeusking19
[14:37] <Zeusking19> Alright, great
[14:37] <edmoore> try and keep your traces short and clean
[14:37] <Vaizki> and 45 degree angles
[14:37] <edmoore> yep
[14:37] <Vaizki> except the RF trace maybe rounded
[14:38] <Zeusking19> Also, the next time I have some money in my paypal I'll send both of you some money for a beer/other beverage of your choice
[14:38] <Vaizki> edmoore, but he's going to need a whole power section in there as well
[14:38] <Vaizki> and levelshifting as db_g6gzh mentioned
[14:38] <Zeusking19> Not routing yet, so if there is anything wrong I wanna know :P
[14:38] <Zeusking19> Oh yeah, that capacitor
[14:38] <Vaizki> you're missing a handful of components :)
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[14:39] <edmoore> what voltage arduino do you have Zeusking19?
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[14:39] <edmoore> Zeusking19, save it for the conference
[14:39] <Zeusking19> I'm going to be running it off the Uno
[14:39] <edmoore> late summer, in greenwich probably
[14:39] <edmoore> is the Uno 3.3V?
[14:39] <Vaizki> anyway, home&
[14:39] <Vaizki> no it's 5V
[14:39] <edmoore> ah
[14:40] <edmoore> yeah so this just got a little more involved
[14:40] <Zeusking19> Though, wait, is the Duemilanove 3.3v?
[14:40] <Zeusking19> Let me check quickly
[14:41] <Zeusking19> darn, that's 5v as well
[14:42] <edmoore> no biggie, so we'll have to do a couple of things
[14:42] <edmoore> 1) tap off some of that 5V and regulate it down to 3.3V for the gps
[14:43] <Zeusking19> Voltage reg?
[14:43] <edmoore> 2) do some level conversion on the i2c lines to the gps so that they're 3.3V too
[14:43] <edmoore> yep
[14:43] <Zeusking19> (To be fair I am actually fairly pleased that I have gotton this far being a fairly new person to electronics)
[14:43] <edmoore> the ntx2 is happy either way at 5V so no problems there
[14:43] <edmoore> you're doing fine, this is all good stuff
[14:43] <Zeusking19> back to the schematic then
[14:43] <edmoore> keep the faith
[14:44] <UpuWork> yeah keep at it, keep asking questions
[14:44] <Zeusking19> I am not intending on giving up - I really want to see a HAB up there
[14:44] <Zeusking19> be back in one sec
[14:48] <Zeusking19> back
[14:49] <Zeusking19> 1 sec = 4 minutes obviously
[14:49] <Zeusking19> Okay, so regulating 5v to 3.3v
[14:49] <Zeusking19> I do have the GPS on the 3v line but I am assuming this is a case of "don't trust the label"
[14:50] <UpuWork> LM3480
[14:51] <UpuWork> yes the Arduino 3.3V is unregulated 50mA
[14:51] <edmoore> 50mA is not enough
[14:51] <edmoore> so we provide our own
[14:51] <UpuWork> which *may* be ok but I'd put a regulator on there for the GPS
[14:52] <Zeusking19> Right, gonna go away and figure out how to do that
[14:52] <edmoore> so that code upu said was a regulator from TI
[14:52] <Zeusking19> ah
[14:52] <edmoore> there are *loads* of regulators available
[14:52] <edmoore> thousands
[14:52] <edmoore> a classic one is the LM1117
[14:52] <UpuWork> yeah thats nice and simple
[14:52] <edmoore> you'll see them and copies of them absolutely everywhere
[14:52] <UpuWork> and needs just 2 of the 100nF caps you are already using
[14:52] <edmoore> they're a good place to start and they'll be fine for this job
[14:53] <Zeusking19> I have one in the Ava library and one in the SparkFun library
[14:53] <adamgreig> UpuWork: "unregulated" 3v3?
[14:53] <edmoore> there are two things to note with linear regulators (well more, but you should care about 2 things)
[14:53] <edmoore> oh, well if you've got the footprint then maybe just go with that
[14:53] <UpuWork> well
[14:53] <edmoore> i can save my sermon for another time
[14:53] <UpuWork> I wouldn't use it for a MAX6
[14:54] <UpuWork> its from the FT232R on the Arduino
[14:54] <UpuWork> I think
[14:54] <adamgreig> actually i knew the old arduinos it was the 3v3 regulated by the ftdi chip internally, but on new arduinos without an ftdi where does it come from?
[14:54] <UpuWork> that is a good question
[14:55] <UpuWork> point taken
[14:55] <Zeusking19> Alright, I've added a voltage regulator to the schematic
[14:55] <Zeusking19> and wired it up
[14:55] <edmoore> ok
[14:55] <edmoore> stop
[14:55] <edmoore> stop here
[14:55] <edmoore> stop
[14:55] <edmoore> what part is it
[14:56] <edmoore> give me the part name
[14:56] <UpuWork> Just to throw something else into the mix if you're using an Uno its got an on board LP2985 for the 3.3V rail
[14:56] <UpuWork> However don't use that from a Duemilanovo
[14:56] <Zeusking19> Uh, LM3480IM3-3.3
[14:56] <jonsowman> was just about to say, which is good for 150mA or so
[14:56] <edmoore> Zeusking19, ok
[14:56] <adamgreig> plenty for a gps
[14:56] <adamgreig> :P
[14:57] <UpuWork> yeah I stand educated
[14:57] <edmoore> and what does the datasheet for that part that you're looking at say about the other capacitors you need?
[14:57] <Zeusking19> Which part are you referring to? The GPS module or the Voltage Reg?
[14:57] <edmoore> the vreg
[14:57] <Zeusking19> right
[14:57] <edmoore> you've got the datasheet for it open infront of you right now
[14:57] <edmoore> obviously
[14:58] <edmoore> so you can tell me straight away what caps and so on you need
[14:58] <Zeusking19> 0.1µF
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[14:59] <edmoore> ok you may live
[14:59] <infaddict> hello. on a 3.3V arduino am i correct to say the max voltage i should supply to an analog pin is 3.3V?
[14:59] <edmoore> how long is a piece of string
[14:59] <edmoore> 'an analog pin'
[14:59] <edmoore> which analog pin on which part in what kind of circuit
[14:59] <Zeusking19> edmoore, I just noticed that the diagram I was looking at was for the part but a 5V version - would the capacitor value remain the same?
[14:59] <edmoore> oh ignore me
[15:00] <edmoore> i totally got your first line truncated
[15:00] <edmoore> you were quite clear
[15:00] <edmoore> yes 3.3V
[15:00] <Zeusking19> And not accidentally 5V because then you will release the magic smoke
[15:00] <edmoore> in general check the datasheet - so for example some microcontrollers will have a separate voltage reference pin which might constrain your max voltage
[15:00] <edmoore> Zeusking19, yes same thing still
[15:00] <infaddict> ok thx just checking. yep the 5V worry was why i was checking! looking to build a simple voltage divider to get a rough battery voltage monitor.
[15:00] <Zeusking19> right, okay
[15:01] <edmoore> good idea
[15:01] <infaddict> so need to get my approx 6V battery down to below 3.3V using the 2 resistors
[15:01] <edmoore> if you are doing polarity protection on your power-in, remember to polarity-protect the battery minotring line too
[15:01] <edmoore> monitoring*
[15:02] <infaddict> can 4xAA 1.5V batteries ever give significantly more than 6V e.g. when new?
[15:02] <edmoore> infaddict, correct, but i'd give yourself some overhead too just incase
[15:02] <edmoore> say 0-10V
[15:02] <infaddict> mmm
[15:02] <edmoore> mapped to 0-3.3V
[15:03] <infaddict> ok will work out the resistor settings
[15:03] <edmoore> just incase your use a pp3 battery in the future, or your 6V rechargeable battery is actually 7.2V when charged, or whatever
[15:04] <Zeusking19> edmoore, do you have a search term for a capacitor in eagle?
[15:04] <infaddict> thx edmoore
[15:04] <edmoore> yes
[15:04] <edmoore> but let's break out of searching for the mo
[15:04] <edmoore> look at the library called 'rcl'
[15:05] <Zeusking19> found it
[15:05] <Zeusking19> ah
[15:05] <Zeusking19> C-EU
[15:05] <edmoore> stands for 'resistor capacitor inductor' (l is the synbol/prefix for an inductor)
[15:05] <edmoore> yep
[15:05] <edmoore> bingo
[15:06] <Zeusking19> so, I should be fine with using the throughhole style one, yes?
[15:06] <edmoore> i wouldn't
[15:06] <edmoore> no
[15:06] <edmoore> never
[15:06] <edmoore> not for 0.1uF
[15:06] <edmoore> capacitor lowdown time:
[15:07] <edmoore> for anything up to about 10u and a few (low) tens of volts, I'd use a surface-mount ceramic capacitor
[15:07] <edmoore> unless i had a specific reason not to
[15:07] <edmoore> so 0.1u at 25V would certainly be a ceramic capacitor job
[15:08] <edmoore> you want the voltage rating of the capacitor, for this kind of ceramic capacitor, to be at least twice the maximum working voltage
[15:08] <Zeusking19> Better question - C0201, or a different package size?
[15:08] <edmoore> getting to that
[15:08] <edmoore> so
[15:08] <edmoore> what do the numbers mean
[15:08] <Zeusking19> right, sorry
[15:08] <edmoore> split them in half
[15:08] <Zeusking19> 02-01
[15:08] <edmoore> 0603 -> 06 03
[15:08] <edmoore> that is a rectange of 0.06 inches by 0.03 inches
[15:09] <edmoore> 0603 is ok to do by hand
[15:09] <edmoore> 0805 is bigger and easier to do by hand, but that's not much in it
[15:09] <edmoore> 0402 starts to get small
[15:09] <edmoore> 0201 is a spec of dust
[15:09] <Zeusking19> right
[15:09] <Zeusking19> so go for around 0603/0805?
[15:09] <edmoore> save that shit for pick-and-place robots on assembly lines
[15:09] <edmoore> yes
[15:09] <edmoore> stick with that
[15:09] <adamgreig> i saw some 0050025 caps the other day edmoore
[15:09] <adamgreig> ;(
[15:10] <edmoore> saw them at visible wavelengths?
[15:10] <adamgreig> had to use my UV camera
[15:10] <edmoore> you inferred the existed from their interference pattern
[15:10] <adamgreig> confusingly it's also called 0201 in metric
[15:10] <edmoore> Zeusking19, will jsut grab a photo of one of my designs
[15:11] <Zeusking19> okay
[15:11] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mne0yx96rokj9ka/adccard.jpg?dl=0
[15:12] <edmoore> towards the left edge, the yellowy bricks are a kind of capacitor - they're 0805
[15:12] <edmoore> to the left of those bricks are resistors - those are 0603
[15:12] <Zeusking19> alright
[15:12] <edmoore> also everything around the AD8513 chips (the 4 longish chips in the middle) is 0603
[15:13] <edmoore> there is a right arrow key on my laptop for scale
[15:13] <Zeusking19> Okay, I'll just send you the diagram in the datasheet and what I have on my schematic, just to make sure I have done this right
[15:13] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/a05b9b965f60ca527f7b8577fe99cf34 - Diagram
[15:13] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/6b3482c7486982b58808ff68d514bf0a - Schematic
[15:14] <edmoore> fine
[15:14] <Zeusking19> wait a sec, caps are polarized, right?
[15:14] <edmoore> in the schematic editor, put values on the caps
[15:14] <Zeusking19> will do
[15:14] <edmoore> you want the value button on the left
[15:14] <edmoore> put 0u1 in
[15:14] <edmoore> 0u1 means 0.1u
[15:14] <edmoore> its a strange electronics convention
[15:15] <edmoore> 4700 ohms becomes 4k7
[15:15] <edmoore> 7.2 nanofarads is 7n2
[15:15] <edmoore> just how it goes
[15:15] <Zeusking19> right, that's done now
[15:15] <edmoore> good
[15:16] <edmoore> i'm assuming your gnd trace is connected to gnd somewhere offscreen
[15:16] <Zeusking19> yeah
[15:16] <edmoore> fine
[15:16] <edmoore> ok, carry on
[15:17] <Zeusking19> So, is that regulation done now?
[15:18] <edmoore> yep
[15:18] <Zeusking19> okay, so, now it is level conversion
[15:21] <Vaizki> your regulation schematic is missing a joint on the GND line
[15:21] <Vaizki> the little green ball
[15:21] <Vaizki> or rather it's in the wrong place somehow
[15:21] <Vaizki> at the end of pin 3 there, it should be at the intersection
[15:22] <Zeusking19> should be fixed
[15:22] <Zeusking19> there
[15:22] <Zeusking19> done
[15:22] <edmoore> use the net rather than the wire command for connecting things up in the schematic
[15:22] <Vaizki> yes never go wire
[15:22] <edmoore> ok, level conversion of i2c
[15:22] <edmoore> it's a tiny bit harder than with serial
[15:22] <edmoore> because the lines are bidirectional
[15:23] <Zeusking19> right..
[15:23] <edmoore> http://www.bajdi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/logic-level-converter-schematic.png
[15:23] <edmoore> are you happy to just implement that?
[15:24] <Zeusking19> uh, I would, but once I am done I would have no idea how
[15:24] <edmoore> do you want to go through the theory?
[15:24] <Vaizki> :D
[15:24] <Zeusking19> how to.. connect it ot the circuit
[15:24] <Zeusking19> if you get my drift
[15:24] <edmoore> ok
[15:24] <edmoore> ignore the 'jp' stuff in that pic
[15:25] <edmoore> those are connectors, not relevent here
[15:25] <Zeusking19> right, so there is no need for anything that says JP?
[15:25] <edmoore> correct
[15:25] <Zeusking19> What about the +3V3 and the +5V in the top left and top right?
[15:25] <edmoore> r4, r5, r6, r7 are pullup resistors
[15:25] <edmoore> know what they do?
[15:26] <Zeusking19> I know that they are on the data lines and they have a voltage on the other end
[15:26] <Zeusking19> that's about it
[15:26] <edmoore> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/pull-up-resistors
[15:26] <edmoore> follow through on the maths too
[15:27] <edmoore> if you're happy with applying ohms law (V=IR) to real circuit problems then you have this whole field 99% cracked
[15:27] <edmoore> but really i just want you to get the idea of why pullup resistors are used and the consequences of leaving things 'floating'
[15:27] <Oddstr13> SFE also sells a 4-channel bidirectional logic level converter; https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12009
[15:27] <Zeusking19> May I just ask what this symbol is for? *dumb question impending* http://gyazo.com/0b7b6210674fa1fdf6f0293e594b561a
[15:27] <edmoore> Oddstr13, we're doing pcb design here
[15:28] <edmoore> an opportunity to learn rather than buy!
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[15:28] <edmoore> not a dump question
[15:28] <Vaizki> Zeusking19: it's just a wire end
[15:28] <edmoore> arrows usually mean supply
[15:28] <Oddstr13> edmoore: well, schematics and eagle files are included on the product page
[15:28] <edmoore> so that means 'connect this to 5V
[15:28] <Zeusking19> right
[15:29] <Zeusking19> so, I can see that my schematic is gonna have to become a lot bigger for a start
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[15:29] <edmoore> Zeusking19, yes
[15:29] <edmoore> but here's the nice thing about aiupply symbols
[15:30] <edmoore> if you have a single 5V wire and you had to route it to everything that needed 5V in your schematic, it would quickly become a big tangled mess
[15:30] <edmoore> instead you can just put a little 5V supply symbol wherever it's needed and that saves you having to march the 5V wire everywhere
[15:30] <Vaizki> same for GND
[15:30] <edmoore> see what i've done here with the +15V and -15V supplies
[15:30] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7oq0jxvovx5r8p/Screenshot%202015-02-17%2015.29.21.png?dl=0
[15:31] <edmoore> that circuit would be much less clear if i manually connected all of those +15V together and back to the supply part of the schematic
[15:31] <Zeusking19> May I ask how to add these supply arrows?
[15:31] <Zeusking19> I might do that now before I do anything else
[15:31] <edmoore> the library called 'supply'
[15:31] <Zeusking19> right, thanks
[15:31] <edmoore> i think there's 'supply2' aswell
[15:31] <edmoore> doesn't really matter
[15:32] <edmoore> schematics are just like software - it pays to keep them tidy and modular
[15:32] <Zeusking19> I don't have a supply library oddly
[15:32] <edmoore> much easier to understand, maintain, and modify
[15:32] <edmoore> hmm, odd
[15:32] <Vaizki> search for *GND*
[15:32] <edmoore> search for *5V*
[15:32] <Zeusking19> Nevermind, need to "Use" it
[15:33] <Vaizki> or just use all of them...
[15:33] <edmoore> i use all
[15:35] <edmoore> (by the way, unless you know you definitely want to use i2c to talk to the gps, i would use the serial interface)
[15:36] <Zeusking19> It is an option to use Serial
[15:36] <Zeusking19> if it would be easier
[15:36] <edmoore> yes
[15:36] <Zeusking19> then we can do that
[15:37] <edmoore> i2c is slightly complicated for beginners
[15:37] <edmoore> hmm i'm really hesistant to say that
[15:37] <edmoore> it's not complicated
[15:37] <Zeusking19> Gonna just finish up these supply symbols first
[15:37] <edmoore> but for the very beginning 'i want to talk toa gps' there is greatly more support out there on the web for doing it with serial
[15:37] <edmoore> and it also makes level conversion easier
[15:38] <Oddstr13> also, i2c on the Pi is kinda derp, should you ever want do use one of these >.<
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[15:39] <Zeusking19> Alright, done
[15:40] <Zeusking19> so, let's try and do this with Serial instead
[15:41] <edmoore> connect one's tx to the other's tx
[15:41] <edmoore> NO
[15:41] <edmoore> TYPO
[15:41] <edmoore> DISREGARD
[15:41] <Zeusking19> RX*
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[15:41] <edmoore> thanks
[15:41] <edmoore> Tx->Rx
[15:41] <edmoore> Rx->Tx
[15:42] <edmoore> but wait
[15:42] <edmoore> that would be if they were both 3v3
[15:42] <edmoore> or both 5V
[15:42] <edmoore> we need to insert the level converter
[15:42] <edmoore> this article will probably help https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-logic-level-converter
[15:42] <edmoore> essentiall you only need 1 channel
[15:42] <edmoore> so you can cope that bit
[15:42] <edmoore> copy*
[15:43] <edmoore> hopefully if you sit with a tea and worth through what that's saying, you will see how it works and therefore how to integrate it
[15:43] <edmoore> you need to know that serial communications like this are normally high
[15:43] <edmoore> and drop to 0V when doing something
[15:44] <Zeusking19> right
[15:45] <edmoore> so i have just thrown a chunk of stuff at you
[15:45] <edmoore> not expect you to be back having digested that in 5 minutes
[15:45] <edmoore> expecting*
[15:45] <edmoore> it comes thick and fast on this channel, you might have notioced!
[15:45] <Zeusking19> assuming we are looking at this: https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/assets/b/0/e/1/0/522637c6757b7f2b228b4568.png - right?
[15:46] <edmoore> the whole article
[15:46] <edmoore> you need to read and digest the prose
[15:51] <Zeusking19> Okay, so
[15:51] <Zeusking19> having read that
[15:51] <Zeusking19> and attempting to understand what it is saying
[15:52] <Zeusking19> 5V is fed into the HV side
[15:52] <Zeusking19> and 3.3V is fed into the LV side
[15:53] <Zeusking19> Then you feed the Arduino TX into the TX_HV
[15:53] <Zeusking19> and then TX_LV goes into the GPS Module
[15:53] <Zeusking19> And then Arduino RX goes into RX_HV, and RX_LV goes into the GPS Module TX
[15:53] <Zeusking19> am I right in saying that?
[15:54] <edmoore> no
[15:55] <Zeusking19> time to head back and re-read that again
[15:55] <edmoore> arduino tx goes to rx_hv
[15:55] <edmoore> gps rx goes to rx_lv
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[15:55] <Zeusking19> ah, so I got it the wrong way around
[15:55] <edmoore> you want a 5V signal _from_ the arduino to appear as a 3.3V signal _to_ the gps
[15:56] <edmoore> arduino rx = tx_hv
[15:56] <edmoore> gps tx = tx_lv
[15:56] <edmoore> the voltage divider part should hopefully be easy to see what's going on
[15:57] <Zeusking19> ah
[15:57] <Zeusking19> I see
[15:57] <edmoore> i'm not sure if we need to dive into mosfets really to fully explain the mosfet half, but basically you can use mosfets (a kind of transistor) for switching voltages around
[15:57] <Zeusking19> Right, gonna go get coffee and try and figure this one
[15:58] <edmoore> sure
[15:58] <edmoore> concentrate on the voltage divider (2 resistors bit)
[15:58] <edmoore> understanding those is important to electronics
[16:03] <Zeusking19> back
[16:04] <Zeusking19> Right, so, the Uni-Directional design will work the same way as the Bi-Directional?
[16:04] <Zeusking19> following the labels, that is?
[16:05] <Zeusking19> It's just a different method?
[16:06] <edmoore> bi-directional works both ways
[16:06] <edmoore> you could use the bidirection for both tx-rx and rx-tx in this scenario
[16:06] <edmoore> uni-directional only works one way
[16:07] <edmoore> they do it because it's cheaper to use two resistors alone if you can get away with it
[16:07] <edmoore> do you understand the voltage divider?
[16:07] <edmoore> the concept of a voltage divider
[16:07] <infaddict> silly q time from me. i'm new to this so bear with me ;-) On a voltage divider to measure battery voltage (6V 3000mAh) I plan to handle 10V in and downscale to 3V out....
[16:08] <edmoore> topical...
[16:08] <infaddict> but what current should i include in my ohms law calcuations?
[16:08] <edmoore> aha!
[16:08] <edmoore> not a stupid question
[16:08] <edmoore> so
[16:08] <edmoore> let's make some assumptions
[16:08] <infaddict> something small like 100uA
[16:08] <infaddict> ?
[16:08] <edmoore> 1) the battery has basically zero impedance
[16:08] <edmoore> so we don't have to consider it
[16:09] <edmoore> 2) our analog to digital converter has a very high input impedance
[16:09] <edmoore> so we don't have to consider much current going into the ADC, i.e. out of the middle of the divider
[16:09] <infaddict> interesting, so would something like 100uA suit?
[16:09] <infaddict> if so i reckon i need R1=70K and R2=30K
[16:10] <infaddict> makes 10V bang on 3V
[16:10] <edmoore> so yes, that's about right
[16:10] <edmoore> however
[16:10] <edmoore> assumption 2 can be a bit ropey
[16:10] <infaddict> so should i wire it up and measure for real?
[16:10] <edmoore> basically the adc has a capacitor onboard that you charge up
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[16:10] <edmoore> it then disconnects that capacitor from the outside world and connects it to its internal circuitry tio measure the voltage
[16:11] <edmoore> this is the s-called 'sample-and-hold' technique
[16:11] <edmoore> so you have to refill that cap every time you make a new measurement
[16:11] <edmoore> now if you don't take measurements very often (as in this case) you can spend a while charging up that cap
[16:11] <infaddict> ah right, so sample rate is important
[16:11] <edmoore> so yes, 70k and 30k is alright... but i would probably just intuitivity go for about 7k and 3k
[16:12] <edmoore> yes it is
[16:12] <edmoore> i'd get a bit more current through your voltage divider, which will make it a bit stiffer
[16:12] <infaddict> yep not even sure what resistors i have lying around, will see what I have close to that
[16:12] <edmoore> it's still piddlingly little from a battery-life pov
[16:12] <edmoore> well, her'es another thing
[16:12] <infaddict> yep true, its a tiny draw
[16:12] <edmoore> if you care about accuracy, get some proper resistors
[16:13] <infaddict> this is just a rough estimate thing... for logging
[16:13] <daveake> also, if it's a 1-off, just calibrate against a decent DMM
[16:13] <infaddict> many thx edmoore, will do some work on wiring this up tonight. Zeusking19 sry to hijack your help!
[16:13] <edmoore> the adc is 10 bits right
[16:14] <Zeusking19> infaddict - No problem, we all have the right for help ;)
[16:14] <edmoore> 1/1024 is a resolution of about 0.1% of your fullscale range
[16:15] <edmoore> (1/about1000 = 0.001)
[16:15] <infaddict> now that was my other question. i am unsure if the arduino mini pro (3.3v 8bit) is 1024 or 512 resolution on analog. will check datasheets.
[16:15] <edmoore> so as a rule of thumb, if your resolution is good to x, you want the signal conditioning that feeds it do be good to about 0.1x at least
[16:16] <edmoore> so basically if your resistors are only 1% accurate you're wasting a few bits of resolution, unless you calibrate
[16:16] <edmoore> (which is why you calibrate)
[16:16] <edmoore> or if you don't want to calibrate you buy parts guaranteed to be at least good enough
[16:16] <infaddict> yep so wire it up and sick a multimeter on it to check input and output voltage
[16:16] <edmoore> also 0.1% resistors often have better temperature coefficients than 1% resistors
[16:16] <infaddict> my cheapo resistors are probably not great
[16:17] <edmoore> and temperatur ecoefficient is a thing when it's 30C on the ground and -40 at altitude
[16:17] <Zeusking19> edmoore, I wired this up, left is Arduino (HV) and right is GPS Module (LV) http://gyazo.com/467faf3f54ced357407d3ef6a51bc227
[16:17] <edmoore> i'm sort of sledgehamnmering this nut but it's all interesting stuff when designing measuring systems
[16:17] <Zeusking19> I probably totally misunderstood the concept
[16:17] <Zeusking19> if so apologies
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[16:18] <edmoore> you have
[16:18] <edmoore> i want you to understand the concept
[16:19] <edmoore> if you need me to tell you if it's right or not, then you're not understanding the concept
[16:19] <edmoore> if you do understand it, then you don't need me to tell you if it's right or not
[16:20] <edmoore> i'm not being a cheshire cat deliberately
[16:21] <Zeusking19> "The voltage divider level-shifting circuits cut a high voltage down by 66%. The voltage divider ratio was chosen to divide a high voltage of 5V down to 3.3V, the most common use case for the LLC. "
[16:21] <Zeusking19> For what we are doing, what I've done would be the right thing to do, if I an interpreting that sentence correctly
[16:21] <Zeusking19> Because we are only reducing the voltage, not making it higher
[16:21] <edmoore> ok, let's break it down
[16:21] <edmoore> i am a 5v arduino
[16:22] <Zeusking19> Yup.
[16:22] <edmoore> i want to send a message that a 3.3V gps can receive
[16:22] <Zeusking19> Yep.
[16:22] <edmoore> so tell me how i do it
[16:22] <Zeusking19> Send the message, into a LLC, let the LLC reduce the voltage and then send it on it's merry way
[16:23] <edmoore> i hereby ban you from using the term 'llc'
[16:23] <edmoore> tell me what it actually is
[16:23] <Zeusking19> It's a resistor.
[16:23] <Zeusking19> Two of them, in fact.
[16:23] <edmoore> no it isn't
[16:23] <edmoore> yes it is
[16:23] <edmoore> ok
[16:23] <edmoore> no for my next question
[16:23] <edmoore> i am a 3.3V gps
[16:24] <edmoore> i want to send a message to a 5V arduino that can't hear my 3.3V whispers
[16:24] <edmoore> how do I do it?
[16:25] <Zeusking19> Signal + 5V into a MOSFET
[16:25] <Zeusking19> uhhh
[16:26] <edmoore> that's the sound of someone not really understanding something :)
[16:26] <edmoore> but it's ok
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[16:26] <edmoore> in the (tiny, keyhole) screencapture you just sent me, you had 2 voltage dividers
[16:26] <Zeusking19> Into a resistor, back into the Mosfet/output
[16:26] <edmoore> but the voltage divide only works in the 5v to 3.3V scenario
[16:26] <Zeusking19> sorry again about the keyhole pictures again
[16:26] <edmoore> because it can only divide voltages
[16:26] <edmoore> it can't multiply them
[16:26] <Zeusking19> Oh, wait, I see what you are saying now
[16:26] <Zeusking19> So I was doing it right for the Arduino TX
[16:26] <Zeusking19> but not for the Arduino RX
[16:27] <Zeusking19> We need the bi-directional for the GPS TX
[16:27] <edmoore> so we need a different kind of circuit for the scenario where we have to multiply up
[16:27] <edmoore> yes, exactly
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[16:27] <edmoore> we don't actually need it to be bidirectional
[16:27] <Zeusking19> hah, can't believe I did not realise that earlier
[16:27] <edmoore> but it just happens that is it
[16:27] <edmoore> as a bypproduct of how it works
[16:28] <Zeusking19> right
[16:28] <Zeusking19> I see now
[16:28] <Zeusking19> thanks!
[16:29] <Zeusking19> That feeling when you understand what is being said to you is awesome xD
[16:29] <edmoore> :)
[16:29] <edmoore> i tend to drag it out
[16:29] <edmoore> don't like spoon-feeding
[16:29] <edmoore> but it's better in the long run
[16:29] <edmoore> (for you)
[16:30] <Zeusking19> Yeah
[16:30] <edmoore> are you 19?
[16:30] <edmoore> or are there just 18 other zeuskings
[16:31] <Zeusking19> Funny you bring up the... age thing actually
[16:31] <Zeusking19> I am not going to mention it because most people totally freak out
[16:32] <daveake> You're a dyslexic 91 year-old?
[16:32] <edmoore> unless you're 400 or 11 i doubt you'll shock anyone here
[16:32] <Zeusking19> Not far off 11 actually
[16:32] <Zeusking19> 13, but hey
[16:32] <Zeusking19> Now you know.
[16:33] <edmoore> well, there have been people who came on this channel at 13
[16:33] <edmoore> now at cambridge
[16:33] <edmoore> it's a good place for learning stuff
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[16:33] <infaddict> and some are in jail ;-)
[16:34] <infaddict> only kidding, great to get started at early age
[16:34] <infaddict> wish i had
[16:35] <edmoore> i think daniel and simrun and so on were 2009 when they did alien
[16:35] <edmoore> so that makes them however old they are now
[16:35] <edmoore> undergrad - 6
[16:35] <infaddict> right i've raided my limited box of resistors and only have: 1M, 470K, 100K, 50K, 10K, 4.7K, 1K, 100 and 50. Need to see if I can make a 10V to 3V divider with them!
[16:36] <infaddict> tbh i could live with 7V to 3V really
[16:36] <infaddict> time to do some calcs
[16:36] <edmoore> anyway, you're doing excellent stuff Zeusking19. keep at it
[16:36] <Zeusking19> ;)
[16:36] <edmoore> more fresh meat for CUSF
[16:38] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/ae7771941805f49bbd3a053cc32dfeca
[16:38] <Zeusking19> Okay, so
[16:38] <Zeusking19> I ended up doing it upside down
[16:38] <Zeusking19> to make it a little bit simpler for myself
[16:38] <Zeusking19> left is still Arduino, right is still GPS
[16:39] <edmoore> perfect
[16:39] <edmoore> sorted
[16:39] <Zeusking19> so now I guess it's routing
[16:39] <edmoore> yep
[16:39] <Zeusking19> oh right, one other thing
[16:39] <edmoore> you might want to later go back and add some LEDs
[16:39] <Zeusking19> that capacitor we put on the GPS module VCC
[16:39] <edmoore> as they're useful
[16:40] <edmoore> and maybe battery voltage monitoring like infaddict has been discussing
[16:40] <Zeusking19> Is that meant to be in-line, or was I wrong to do that?
[16:40] <edmoore> ah no, not in-line
[16:40] <edmoore> it must be across the power rail
[16:40] <edmoore> it's like a very small local battery
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[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:40] <edmoore> that can empty itself very very quickly
[16:41] <edmoore> doesn't store much energy, but can dump than energy out super-fast - exactly what we need
[16:41] <edmoore> dumpt that*
[16:41] <edmoore> i give up with typing
[16:41] <edmoore> back in 5
[16:41] <Zeusking19> okay, so the capacitor needs to be ..
[16:41] <Zeusking19> uh
[16:41] <Zeusking19> Heh, clueless little me
[16:44] <Zeusking19> And hello Lunar_Lander, did not see you there
[16:45] <daveake> He's a master of disguise
[16:45] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[16:46] <Zeusking19> I feel that perhaps I should find out if I could get the support of one of my Science/Design and Technology teachers
[16:46] <Zeusking19> It may ease the burden on equipment
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[16:51] <pc1pcl> Zeusking19: the capacitor goes right between the GND and +, so in parallel, not in series.
[16:52] <Zeusking19> ah, so one end is on the GPS module ground, and the other on the GPS module VCC?
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[16:52] <pc1pcl> yes, as in https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg38779xbue5dbt/Screenshot%202014-11-04%2011.39.49.png?dl=0
[16:53] <Zeusking19> Alright, thank you!
[16:56] <pc1pcl> Been reading the backlog with interest, I know this stuff in theory, but very nice to see it explained, and updated to today's practice..
[17:00] <Zeusking19> Gonna pull out a little paper binder I have in my cupboard, would be helpful to have datasheets/schematics/other information handy and on paper instead of taking up monitor space
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[17:04] <infaddict> question. can i monitor an external battery voltage that isnt powering my arduino (which is getting USB power during debug)? I've wired the voltage divider using + and - from battery, and the VOUT then goes to A0 on arduino...
[17:04] <infaddict> but the ground of the voltage divider is the battery and not the arduino gnd
[17:05] <infaddict> if that makes sense
[17:05] <Vaizki> Battery and arduino ground should me same
[17:05] <infaddict> yep that was my thinking
[17:05] <infaddict> but wanted to check
[17:06] <infaddict> when i run the whole arduino from same battery that issue goes away of course
[17:06] <Vaizki> Well a regulator only has one ground pin...
[17:06] <Vaizki> You have more than one battery?
[17:06] <infaddict> 4 batteries in my pack.
[17:06] <infaddict> single battery supply if you like
[17:07] <Vaizki> Ok I thought multiple supply
[17:07] <infaddict> nope single supply. just powering the board from USB at moment because i am debugging.
[17:08] <Vaizki> Just tie all ground together me says
[17:08] <infaddict> and wanted to hook up battery voltage monitor circuit to that USB powered circuit
[17:08] <infaddict> but monitoring the battery pack
[17:08] <adamgreig> yea connect the grounds
[17:08] <Vaizki> All voltage is relative
[17:08] <adamgreig> you pretty much always want to connect the grounds (sometimes very carefully)
[17:08] <infaddict> yep cool, gnd should be 0 on both i think (or close)
[17:09] <Vaizki> There is no absolute 0 potential
[17:09] <infaddict> went for a 10k and 4.7k in the end, will hook up DMM to see how it performs
[17:09] <Vaizki> Tie them together :)
[17:09] <infaddict> just need to now work out if my micro uses 1024 or 512 resolution on the analog pins
[17:09] <infaddict> for the code
[17:10] <Vaizki> or 255
[17:10] <infaddict> yep
[17:10] <Vaizki> 8bits=0-255
[17:11] <infaddict> seems there is a resolution command too
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[17:15] <infaddict> Vaizki: did you find 8bits=0-255 documented anywhere? struggling to find that on web.
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[17:18] <Vaizki> i had a c64 as a kid
[17:19] <Vaizki> 8 bits = 2^8-1 = 255
[17:20] <infaddict> yep i wasnt asking about the maths part, just how you linked that to my board. are you saying because its an 8 bit board is must be 255?
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[17:22] <infaddict> as i am finding websites quoting 1024 (10 bit resolution)
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> If you have an 8 bit DAC/ADC it can't be 10 bit - 1024 - without dithering or something else
[17:23] <infaddict> i guess i dont know what ADC it has, thats my problem. the processor is 8 bit so if that means everything else is 8 bit then great.
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't.
[17:24] <infaddict> ok trying to find data on what ADC it has
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[17:30] <Vaizki> Which mcu?
[17:30] <infaddict> 328P
[17:30] <infaddict> 3.3V 8Mhz
[17:31] <Vaizki> 10bit
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[17:36] <infaddict> mmm the 328p datasheet summary suggests 10bit ADC
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[17:38] <Vaizki> yea.. remember to hook up Aref
[17:40] <infaddict> dont need to wire aref externally, default setting is to use board vcc of 3.3v
[17:40] <infaddict> but you can override that if you want with aref and call to analogReference()
[17:41] <Vaizki> hmm.
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[18:13] <infaddict> interestingly when powered by USB, my VCC is measured at 3.15V and when battery powered its pretty much spot on at 3.29V
[18:13] <infaddict> and my brand new set of Energizers are outputting 7.24V
[18:13] <infaddict> voltage divider dropping that to a nice 2.29V
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[18:35] <infaddict> hum getting wildly different readings on A0 pin. strange.
[18:35] <jcoxon> is it floating?
[18:35] <jcoxon> (e.g. not connected to anything?
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[18:38] <infaddict> DMM gives a very steady 2.23V on the wire going to A0. checking connections now.
[18:40] <infaddict> getting values from 1023 down to <100 and everything in between!!
[18:42] <edmoore> sounds a bit disconnected
[18:44] <infaddict> mmm gonna try a different pin. its not the divider circuit or vout wire as that reads bang on steady 2.23V on multimeter.
[18:47] <infaddict> presume it should read fairly steady in the loop()
[18:48] <infaddict> bah just been called out to work. laters.
[18:49] <Zeusking19> edmoore, hello again - I am having troubles with the routing
[18:49] <Zeusking19> Can't seem to find a way that will work properly
[18:49] <edmoore> ok, afraid i'm just about to head out for dinner with someone
[18:50] <Zeusking19> No problem.
[18:50] <edmoore> but send me a screenshot in the next 10 seconds
[18:50] <edmoore> and i'll give you a tweet's worth of thought
[18:50] <Zeusking19> http://gyazo.com/e9d05887f87b2df18e957ac7aece29e1
[18:50] <edmoore> too late
[18:50] <edmoore> but don'ty panic that's fine
[18:50] <edmoore> will chat tomorrow
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[19:29] <Vaizki> tme to apply a bit of what I learned today onto my own tracker board draft..
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[19:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC14 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC14
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[19:49] <Zeusking19> Just wondering as a newbie - when planning a HAB project what should be considered initially?
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[20:01] <Vaizki> Zeusking19: read daveake's writeup: http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
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[20:01] <Zeusking19> I have already read that, will read it again, but I was moreso asking if anyone had any additions to make eg: what order to plan things in, etc
[20:01] <daveake> Then we quiz you on it; if you pass we let you fly :p
[20:02] <daveake> It does tell what order to do things in
[20:02] <daveake> tracking first
[20:02] <daveake> testing (lots of)
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[20:02] <daveake> then CAA form
[20:02] <daveake> then do the payload
[20:02] <Zeusking19> Ah, well, I'm onto a good start then given that I already have an incomplete tracker board in the works
[20:03] <daveake> Often the first question someone asks me by email is "what balloon do I need?"
[20:03] <daveake> Wrong question
[20:03] <Zeusking19> That depends on the payload weight, right?
[20:03] <daveake> and how high you want to get
[20:04] <Zeusking19> right
[20:04] <Zeusking19> I actually have a stupid/decent question dependant on context
[20:04] <daveake> descent
[20:04] <daveake> sorry can't help myself :)
[20:04] <Zeusking19> :)
[20:04] <Zeusking19> Are there any extra equipment protection measures that you should/could take apart from the insulation and making sure stuff is unlikely to shift?
[20:05] <daveake> no stabby bits
[20:05] <daveake> Just remember a) it could land anywhere, including on a car or someone's head
[20:05] <daveake> and that it may land on concrete at 20mph
[20:06] <daveake> and the period after burst is violent
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[20:06] <Zeusking19> I actually watched a few videos of bursts
[20:06] <daveake> So make sure it copes with the violence and is unlikely to cause damage
[20:06] <Zeusking19> Right
[20:08] <mclane_> build a team
[20:08] <mclane_> chasing is fun for the whole family
[20:08] <mclane_> increases also the waf
[20:09] <mclane_> you can engage your partner to sew a parachute
[20:09] <daveake> He's 13 so probably he can't :)
[20:09] <qyx_> :D
[20:09] <daveake> s/partner/mum might work :)
[20:10] <mclane_> oh - then replace waf by maf
[20:10] <mclane_> (mother acceptance factor)
[20:10] <daveake> "she who must be obeyed" works for either
[20:10] <mclane_> right!
[20:13] <jededu> The tolerance level increases with gifts or lets go out for dinner after works
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[20:17] <Zeusking19> I did think about asking Science/D&T departments at my school - generally they are quite open to things like this
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[20:17] <Zeusking19> The good news about half term is that I can get together a plan this week for next week
[20:18] <Zeusking19> (note NOT the whole plan)
[20:18] <Zeusking19> Just a little "briefing" as to what it involves/what is required/why would it be beneficial/etc
[20:19] <Ian_> It wouldn't surprise me if, with what you have got to grips with this afternoon with Edmoore, that you might actually be intimidating to someone in the Science/D&T dept :)
[20:20] <Zeusking19> Most of the stuff that I was learning this afternoon I only really have a basic understanding of :p
[20:20] <Ian_> It does no harm to read in on such sessions, reinforcing what you have learned and learning the bits missed previously. Continuous revision.
[20:21] <Zeusking19> Yeah.
[20:21] <Zeusking19> It's actually sad that my school no longer has an electronics department - it would have been beneficial to have some extra equipment on hand in that respect
[20:21] <Ian_> Ah, but next time you will find that you are increasing your understanding. It was a pretty comprehensive trip that Ed gave you. I for example have yet to even look at Eagle.
[20:21] <Zeusking19> hm
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[20:22] <Zeusking19> To be honest I am surprised that I went from schematic to a board with no traces in one day
[20:22] <Zeusking19> I honestly expected it to take a week at least
[20:22] <Ian_> Positive view: no longer have an electronics department - have equipment still to dispose of - spot a bargain price coming up :)
[20:22] <Zeusking19> They trashed everything .-.
[20:23] <Ian_> The journey is faster with IRC mentoring.
[20:23] <Zeusking19> I mean, everything, from the crappy soldering irons to an etch tank to a full blown CNC machine
[20:23] <Zeusking19> Quite honestly, if I had not found this IRC channel I would be stuck in a deep pit
[20:24] <Ian_> Yes, that seems to be a gap in the thinking of otherwise intelligent people, who don't realise that even if there is no money to be made, that the equipment can benefit others.
[20:24] <Ian_> Not as if it was highly classified or anything.
[20:25] <Zeusking19> mm
[20:25] <Ian_> You did well. Keep it up and you will find that reading here consumes a lot of time but teaches a lot.
[20:27] <Zeusking19> It is a good learning resource
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[20:33] <Zeusking19> I guess it might be nice to name this... idea
[20:33] <Zeusking19> Any mission codenames anybody? Go wild :P
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[20:35] <Ian_> ZKing then you can number your flights 0, 1, 2 etc. Short user names also save typing!
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[20:40] <Zeusking19> Yeah, that's probably a better idea now you say that :P
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[20:42] <Ian_> ZKing19 will keep the connection . I used G0PAI_Ian, but it was too long.
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[20:43] <Ian_> The original comment re your username was because Zeusbot is a Holy entity here :) seemingly!
[20:45] <Zeusking19> :)
[20:45] <Ian_> You get to make your own choices though . . . I have a radio sked to keep . . . cheers for now.
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[21:02] <Jartza> hmmh
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[21:03] <Jartza> maybe my homebrew avr-libc/binutils/gcc formula works now, with attiny841 support...
[21:07] <Zeusking19> Anyway, I'm off, night all
[21:07] <Jartza> night
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[21:24] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
[21:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ATSAT-4 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-4
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[22:20] Action: cm13g09 seems to permanently end up needing to order stuff from China during chinese new year :/
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[22:29] <zyp> when you're ordering stuff from china all the time, you're bound to hit it
[22:31] <cm13g09> zyp: I don't though.....
[22:31] <cm13g09> I do orders like 2-3 times a year
[22:31] <cm13g09> and one of them usually hits CNY
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[23:17] <Vaizki> so I put together my first go at an atmega328p + ntx2b + ublox module tracker in eagle.. phew..
[23:18] <Vaizki> http://gerblook.org/pcb/uZMgKPymoCVSmSNzDfEskP
[23:18] <Vaizki> that's the current incarnation
[23:19] <Vaizki> aka first thing I ever did with eagle
[23:21] <Vaizki> I only realized how small it ended up when I tried to put 3mm mounting holes on it...
[23:24] <mattbrejza> those look like the smaller 1/8W resistors rather than the larger ones that tend to get used
[23:39] <Vaizki> Could be
[23:41] <qyx_> do you accept comments? :P
[23:43] <qyx_> actually not much to comment except vias
[23:48] <Vaizki> ,-sure
[23:48] <Vaizki> Everything helps
[23:49] <qyx_> just connect bottom and top ground planes on the edges with vias
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 18 2015