highaltitude.log.20150213

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[00:02] <nomad1> anyone flying?
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[00:49] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ATSAT-3 after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-3
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[07:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03+27848197572_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%2B27848197572_chase
[07:46] <x-f> who you gonna call?
[07:46] <x-f> chase car!
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[07:51] <arko> when there's something strange
[07:51] <arko> in your CAA airspace
[07:51] <arko> who you gonna call?
[07:52] <arko> hm that doesnt work
[07:52] <arko> i'll keep my dayjob
[08:10] Action: UpuWork pats arko
[08:10] <fsphil> hah
[08:10] <arko> lol
[08:10] <arko> tis a late night
[08:10] <fsphil> best film theme tune ever
[08:10] <arko> indeed
[08:10] <UpuWork> Meh
[08:10] <arko> i have an ecto lego i need to finish building
[08:11] <UpuWork> Prefer Inception
[08:11] <fsphil> I might not like this reboot, but if it has ray parker jr. and the original car, I'll be happy
[08:11] <arko> excellent soundtrack for Inception
[08:11] <fsphil> inception has an excellent score overall
[08:11] <UpuWork> new score fsphil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_2Cq97G7Dc
[08:11] <fsphil> actually ghostbusters ain't bad too
[08:11] <UpuWork> tell me how many seconds you last
[08:12] <fsphil> oook...
[08:13] <fsphil> lol
[08:13] <fsphil> still going
[08:13] <arko> good christ, who put the ghostbusters theme into a blender and puree
[08:14] <arko> and hit*
[08:15] <arko> hmm, do i sleep or watch another episode of Twin Peaks?
[08:15] <fsphil> is there a difference? (jk!)
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[08:18] <fsphil> finished it UpuWork. Do I win a prize?
[08:18] <UpuWork> lol
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[08:19] Action: fsphil searches for inception dubstep
[08:19] Action: fsphil quickly closes browser
[08:20] <fsphil> hans zimmer will be rolling in his ... (checks wikipedia) ... expensive german house
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[08:21] <arko> hahaha
[08:22] <Laurenceb_> hahaha
[08:22] <Laurenceb_> ahem
[08:24] <fsphil> morning Laurenceb_
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[08:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Charles_Test_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Charles_Test_chase
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[10:28] <infaddict> morning guys. does anybody use the tinyGPS library to parse UBX/EMEA messages or just do it themselves in code? it will do heavylifting for me but wary of more libraries taking up much needed space.
[10:28] <daveake> I DIY
[10:29] <daveake> Not sure it's really that tiny
[10:29] <mattbrejza> "tiny"GPS
[10:29] <mattbrejza> that needs the floating point library
[10:30] <edmoore> and you don't actually need to parse that much to just get the important stuff from gps
[10:30] <infaddict> yer tbh i'm thinking i only need 1-2 messages anyway and will ignore the rest
[10:30] <infaddict> possibly only 1
[10:30] <edmoore> like, something that fully complies with the entire nmea spec is one thing, but just getting time/lat/lon/alt etc from one specific nmea message is a much easier thing
[10:30] <edmoore> yes, what you just said
[10:30] <infaddict> this is true. not really interesting in how many sats or all the other millions of messages
[10:31] <infaddict> just want lat/long/altitude/time
[10:31] <edmoore> well actually how many sats is quite useful
[10:31] <edmoore> but that's about the only useful non-core thing
[10:31] <edmoore> it's a good metric for quality of fix
[10:31] <infaddict> yer, i guess it can give indication of fix accuracy or dilution
[10:31] <infaddict> but there is a flag that tells you if its considered valid fix too
[10:31] <mattbrejza> also you probably just want to string copy the lat/long rather than use it as a number
[10:31] <edmoore> you know something is probably amiss somewhere with inteference or whatever if you're only seeing 3-4 on a flight
[10:32] <edmoore> well, you want to just be careful that you parse it correctly whatever you end up doing
[10:32] <Laurenceb> here you go https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/tree/master/Ublox
[10:32] <edmoore> people get themselves into all sorts of problems parsing minus signs, zero-padded numbers and so on
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[10:34] <daveake> Also watch for optional fields - e.g. direction (iirc) is skipped if it hasn't calculated one
[10:34] <Laurenceb> seriously, UBX all the way
[10:34] <daveake> So that part of the string is ",," instead of ",123," for e.g.
[10:34] <daveake> Yeah can't argue with that
[10:36] <edmoore> yes ubx is good, i agree with that
[10:39] <R34lB0rg> any experience with using olivia or jt9 modulation?
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[10:43] <edmoore> have used something similar to olivia, and the performance was great and i'd recommend it
[10:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helps if you use RSID ahead of any transmission as fldigi won't use the AFC on FSK modes, but it does on RSID.
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[10:49] <infaddict> sry guys, call came in and was afk
[10:49] <R34lB0rg> Geoff-G8DHE, agreed
[10:49] <infaddict> Laurenceb, thanks very much will take a look
[10:49] <Darkside> is there a 'RSID number to MFSK tones' lump of code out there?
[10:49] <Laurenceb> np
[10:49] <R34lB0rg> I now need to know if the 3dr radio can be used
[10:49] <Darkside> because once you have the MFSK symbols, generating it is easy enough
[10:49] <Darkside> R34lB0rg: not for olivia or JT9 i wouldnt expect
[10:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is a table in the RSID spec.
[10:50] <Vaizki> Rapid Stain Identification Series (RSID) is designed for fast, easy and reliable detection of human fluids from a variety of samples encountered by forensic laboratories.
[10:50] <Vaizki> I think I need to regoogle.
[10:50] <Vaizki> then again, it IS friday
[10:50] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, the HM-TRP transceiver can do FSK
[10:51] <Darkside> R34lB0rg: all the hacks to get olivia working with various Silicon Laboratories chips have involved hacks involvin crystal frequencies and odd timing and stuff, which im not sure is possible with the Si1000 chip that lives within the 3DR radios
[10:51] <Darkside> sure
[10:51] <Darkside> but olivia is not FSK
[10:51] <Darkside> its M-FSK
[10:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Having the same problem! try RxID as well but I think I got to it via fldigi last time
[10:51] <Darkside> with very specific frequency shifts and baud rates
[10:51] <Darkside> you get any of that slightly wrong and it won't work
[10:51] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, can you recommend a modem for ardupilot?
[10:51] <Darkside> err
[10:52] <Darkside> what application are we talking about here
[10:52] <Darkside> UAVs?
[10:52] <Darkside> balloons?
[10:52] <R34lB0rg> a balloon piloted by ardupilot
[10:52] <Darkside> err
[10:52] <Darkside> piloted?
[10:52] <R34lB0rg> (modified ardupilot)
[10:52] <Darkside> ardupilot is massively overkill to collevt data
[10:52] <R34lB0rg> it will carry a propulsion experiment
[10:52] <Darkside> again, why do yo uneed ardupilot?
[10:53] <Darkside> toggle pin high to set off igniter
[10:53] <Vaizki> Darkside, don't ask
[10:53] <Darkside> oh dear
[10:53] <Vaizki> last time it took 3 hours
[10:53] <Darkside> oh right
[10:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.w1hkj.com/RSID_description.html
[10:54] <Darkside> Geoff-G8DHE: yeah i see that
[10:54] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, talking about vectored thrust
[10:54] <fsphil> THOR is simpler to do than olivia
[10:54] <Darkside> should be simple enough to figure out the bits for a certain mode
[10:54] <Darkside> R34lB0rg: not my area of expertise sorry
[10:55] <Darkside> Geoff-G8DHE: also wondering how the position of the RSID tones aligns to that of the mode you switch to
[10:55] <fsphil> it seems to work from the centre
[10:55] <Darkside> i think the center freq of the RSID MFSK transmission is meant to align over the center of the subsequent mode
[10:55] <Darkside> yeah
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> should be using the same center freq.
[10:55] <Darkside> cool
[10:55] <Darkside> should be easy enough to do
[10:55] <R34lB0rg> everything else would illogical :)
[10:56] <Darkside> not necessarily
[10:56] <fsphil> logic wouldn't stop some people
[10:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> needs a pause of say 200-400ms to allow AFC/tuning steps to settle before sending the actual data
[10:56] <Darkside> could be 'base' tone lines up over the center frequency of the next mode
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[10:56] <Darkside> i.e. frequency of symbol 0
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[10:57] <Darkside> mmk only 15x 16-FSK symbols
[10:57] <Darkside> baud rate of 10.766Hz, orthogonal MFSK
[10:58] <Darkside> (am thinking about how i'd implement a HF tracker using a Si5351)
[11:03] <Vaizki> PS-31 and PS-32 used JT9 with WSPR, not sure if they reported how it really worked out
[11:03] <Darkside> seemed to work well
[11:04] <Darkside> i'm one state over from them
[11:04] <Darkside> i had some good chats with andy when he was starting out
[11:04] <Vaizki> one state? that's an area the size of europe, right? :)
[11:05] <Darkside> yeah
[11:05] <Darkside> about 1500km?
[11:05] <Darkside> maybe
[11:05] <Darkside> oh not that far
[11:05] <Darkside> ~750km by road
[11:07] <Vaizki> so what did they use WSPR for? ping out a rough location for tracking through wsprnet?
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[11:11] <Vaizki> .. which is a very interesting idea btw..
[11:12] <R34lB0rg> look like it worked well: http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=100&findcall=vk3anh&findreporter=&sort=date
[11:13] <R34lB0rg> Vaizki, using JT9 I believe the balloon could be tracked worldwide
[11:14] <R34lB0rg> there are enough satellites and stations in orbit to cause reflection
[11:14] <Darkside> problem with JT9 is it needs very good frequency stability
[11:14] <Darkside> uhh
[11:14] <Darkside> thats not how HF propagation works...
[11:14] <Vaizki> Darkside, doooon't :)
[11:14] <Vaizki> argh
[11:14] <Darkside> go read up on ionospheric propagation
[11:14] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, JT65 was designed for reflections of the moon
[11:14] <Vaizki> no it wasn't
[11:14] <Vaizki> JT65 was
[11:15] <Darkside> well
[11:15] <Darkside> yes
[11:15] <R34lB0rg> "T65 was designed for EME (moonbounce)"
[11:16] <Darkside> there are a few variations on JT65
[11:16] <Vaizki> but anyway. does JT9 break completely with freq drift or just make it very hard on the receiver?
[11:16] <Darkside> Vaizki: not sure
[11:16] <Darkside> tbh i think frquency drift over the course of a transmission should be easy enough to manage
[11:16] <Darkside> use a TXCO and add thermal mass to it
[11:16] <Darkside> TCXO*
[11:16] <R34lB0rg> Vaizki, if you record braodband and do signal analysis later?
[11:16] <Vaizki> R34lB0rg, yes my thinking
[11:16] <Darkside> theres some stupidly long variants of JT9
[11:17] <Darkside> like, 30 minute long transmissions
[11:17] <Vaizki> yes and it's very slow, 50 chars in 30 minutes? :)
[11:17] <Darkside> i think andy used 6 minute long ones
[11:17] <R34lB0rg> even that could be useful for sending images
[11:17] <Darkside> anyway, i'd probably syart off with WSPR and some other faster MFSK mode
[11:18] <Darkside> like THOR
[11:18] <Darkside> will have to hack up a PCB and have a play
[11:18] <R34lB0rg> well, leave aside my comment about ardupilot, what radio would I need to do JT9 and/or olivia with arduino?
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[11:19] <R34lB0rg> (if ardupilot is overkill, it's my problem, but it's a cheap all-in-a-box solution)
[11:24] <Darkside> fairly certain you wouldn't be able to do the critical modulation timing with ardupilot
[11:24] <Darkside> you would have to offload the modulation to a co-processor
[11:25] <R34lB0rg> that's useful information
[11:25] <Darkside> all of these modes depend on very strict symbol lengths
[11:25] <Darkside> and accurate frequency shifts
[11:26] <R34lB0rg> do they really need to be so accurate if signal processing is done later?
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[11:26] <Darkside> yes
[11:27] <R34lB0rg> I could well imagine image processing the data from the waterfall graph
[11:27] <R34lB0rg> there you can visibly see any drift or deviation
[11:27] <Darkside> the idea is to make use of the existing code
[11:27] <Darkside> which has been developed and optomised over many years
[11:28] <Vaizki> maybe I'll be back in 3 hours...
[11:29] <Darkside> anyway, to get 'large' amounts of data down, WSPR and JT9/65 are not particularly ideal
[11:29] <R34lB0rg> I like overkill, fine by me if I could still receive telemetry from pluto ;)
[11:29] <Darkside> always think about what you need from the radio system
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[11:29] <R34lB0rg> most importantly: reliable telemetry
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[11:29] <Darkside> sure, but its a tradeoff
[11:30] <Darkside> we usually fly 300 baud RTTY and dont lose much data
[11:30] <Darkside> and will be able to get 300x more data than what you'd et with WSPR or JT65
[11:30] <R34lB0rg> I could still use olivia
[11:30] <Darkside> hell, even those 3DR modems would possibly work over a few tens of km with good antennas at each end
[11:31] <Darkside> i know someone in austtralia flew the 900MHz RFD900 modem
[11:31] <R34lB0rg> call me a perfectionist ;)
[11:31] <Darkside> he used a reasonably large helical antenna on the ground to maintain th elink
[11:31] <Darkside> and he got a few kbit/s through
[11:31] <R34lB0rg> at least the rfd900 is designed for long range communication
[11:31] <Darkside> 'long range'
[11:31] <Vaizki> Darkside, I'll save you an hour.. he wants to go into ortbit with ardupilot and 3dr radios
[11:31] <Darkside> sigh
[11:32] <Darkside> Vaizki: dont diss the 3dr radios, they have some good applications
[11:32] <Darkside> just not this
[11:32] <Vaizki> oh no I don't diss them. I fly a hexacopter.
[11:32] <Darkside> tridge did good work on the firmware for the Si1000s
[11:32] <R34lB0rg> I don't call them bad - I just wonder if they can be used for my purpose
[11:33] <Vaizki> yea he got a lot of flak originally on his claims but the end result is pretty good
[11:33] <Vaizki> anyway, I'm not a radio guy really.. just starting out on that.
[11:33] <Darkside> Vaizki: he talks each year at linuxconf
[11:34] <Darkside> quite entertaining talks too
[11:34] <daveake> Yeah I watched that last one
[11:34] <daveake> Good fun
[11:34] <craag> was that the compiling-the-kernel-on-the-flight-cpu?
[11:34] <craag> over ssh, from abroad.
[11:35] <R34lB0rg> lol
[11:35] <daveake> yup
[11:35] <Vaizki> what? on a px4?
[11:35] <craag> bbb
[11:35] <R34lB0rg> the first kernel born in near-space
[11:35] <daveake> not near space
[11:35] <Vaizki> oh ok bbb can handle it
[11:36] <R34lB0rg> "almost" alien software
[11:36] <Darkside> it was at like 50ft
[11:36] <theRealSIbot1> In real units: 50 ft = 15 m
[11:36] <Darkside> nowhere near space
[11:36] <Vaizki> 50 or 50k?
[11:36] <craag> 50
[11:36] <Vaizki> ok...
[11:36] <R34lB0rg> oh, thought he was flying on a balloon
[11:36] <daveake> It was doing what ardupilot was designed for
[11:37] <craag> no. people don't use ardupilot on balloons
[11:37] <R34lB0rg> daveake, pun intended?
[11:37] <Darkside> no puns
[11:37] <daveake> no pun
[11:37] <Darkside> daveake: doesn't do puns
[11:37] <Darkside> at all
[11:37] <R34lB0rg> there's a first time for everything
[11:37] <daveake> damn there must be another one who does
[11:37] <Darkside> ardupilot is designed for controlling planes
[11:37] <craag> Oh it's been done - badly
[11:37] <Darkside> use something else for datalogging
[11:37] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, it's ok, I can take it :)
[11:38] <daveake> KISS applies
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[11:38] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, saying ardupilot I mean the hardware
[11:38] <Darkside> its an arduino
[11:38] <R34lB0rg> there is a software base for planes and helicopters
[11:38] <Darkside> in a different form factor
[11:38] <R34lB0rg> but for my purpose it's just an arduino with peripherals
[11:39] <Darkside> see now you're making slightly more sense
[11:39] <Darkside> *slightly*
[11:39] <R34lB0rg> Darkside, then there was a misunderstanding
[11:39] <Vaizki> I would recommend a glance at PX4 pixhawk
[11:41] <R34lB0rg> what's better about it?
[11:42] <Vaizki> ummm.. I don't have the energy to explain. not very hard to read the page.
[11:43] <Ian_> When you pay good money for an ardupilot and 3DR and then disembowel them to make something with somewhat less value that you don't fully understand . . .
[11:44] <R34lB0rg> to be honest, at the moment I am more interested how to do JT9 and/or Olivia
[11:44] <R34lB0rg> Ian_, ardupilot + sensors + radio costs less than 100$
[11:44] <Ian_> then it's better to start with an Atmega328p-pu chip and an NTX2B or something similar and build from the ground up using proven bits of code
[11:45] <R34lB0rg> i've seen more expensive payloads
[11:45] <daveake> Totally irrelevant cost if you're trying to put something into orbit
[11:45] <Ian_> The Atmega328p-pu costs £2.00 and the NTX2B isn't expensive
[11:45] <R34lB0rg> daveake, even the nasa no longer has the budget they had in the 60's
[11:46] <Ian_> daveake lol using hot air?
[11:46] <daveake> R34lB0rg, irrelevant
[11:46] <daveake> Do how first how much later
[11:46] <R34lB0rg> 0 results found for ntx2b
[11:46] <R34lB0rg> any alternative?
[11:47] <Vaizki> you might be on the wrong channel
[11:47] <daveake> There are so many difficult things on the "how" list I rather doubt anything else will ever matter
[11:47] <Ian_> I think that the question is one of variant realities . . . http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=92
[11:49] <Ian_> The NTX2B-FA is currently a HAB standard for those not actually buiding their own transmitters
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[11:50] <Vaizki> would I like to see a NTX2B-FA in LEO? yea sure :D
[11:51] <craag> Better than an rfm22 :P
[11:51] <daveake> :)
[11:52] <R34lB0rg> I still wonder if the SiK driver could be modified for JT9 or Olivia
[11:52] <R34lB0rg> so you may see a 3rd in leo ;)
[11:52] <craag> 3rd what?
[11:52] <R34lB0rg> sorry, 3dr
[11:55] <craag> Have you thought about mass budget?
[12:00] <Darkside> R34lB0rg: the 3dr radio as its built will not to olivia or JT9
[12:00] <Darkside> the chip cannot do the frequency shifts required
[12:02] <Darkside> now i am off to bed
[12:08] <Laurenceb> just use an si4461/3
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[12:21] <Ian_> Vaizki better on a Leo than a LEO :)
[12:21] <Vaizki> indeed
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[12:24] <Ian_> With all these things, better to start simple and develop encrementally. Look what happened with the last 'Big Bang' approach to galactical project development.. . .
[12:25] <Flerb> Hi
[12:41] <tweetBot1> @AMSAT_UK: March issue of Practical Wireless features another article by G4WNC on #UKHASnet developed by @jamescoxon M6JCX #ukhas
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[12:42] <tweetBot1> @AMSAT_UK: March issue Practical Wireless features another article by G4WNC on #UKHASnet developed by @jamescoxon M6JCX #ukhas #amsat #hamradio #hamr
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[12:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9UOB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
[13:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
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[13:29] <R34lB0rg> would it be possible to generate a audio signal using arduino and frequency shift it to 433MHz?
[13:31] <craag> It is certainly possible.
[13:31] <craag> How easy depends on what the audio signal is.
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[13:44] <R34lB0rg> pwm will be insufficient?
[13:45] <craag> pwm for 433 MHz will be insufficient yes.
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[13:50] <craag> (I suggest you refine your question)
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[13:52] <R34lB0rg> 500Hz/8tones should be doable by pwm
[13:52] <R34lB0rg> then this need to be shifted to 433MHz
[13:52] <R34lB0rg> better?
[13:53] <craag> frequency in time space is relatively hard.
[13:53] <craag> In frequency space it's easy however, so you can do it by driving the FM input of an NTX2B.
[13:54] <craag> See the ukhas.org.uk wiki for guides :)
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> That would be Contestia 8/500 then ?
[13:55] <craag> Perhaps have a go at getting 50 baud RTTY first to get the basics.
[13:55] <craag> Then you can add more tones and change the spacing+format for other modes.
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.oliviamode.com/Contestia.htm
[13:56] <craag> As well as having rtty already working as a fallback if you run up against your project deadline.
[14:02] <R34lB0rg> I am currently waiting for my radios and my sdr
[14:03] <R34lB0rg> once I get them I will evaluate the 3dr radios transmission as fallback
[14:04] <R34lB0rg> but I would really prefer some modulation where you can decode the signal from background noise
[14:04] <edmoore> ...
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[14:11] <fsphil> I've always been happy with signals I can't decode. Am I doing it wrong?
[14:13] <daveake> I can't decode radio 1 either
[14:16] <fsphil> yes I fear I've got to that stage too
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[17:03] Action: Flerb just vaporised a cable by accident
[17:04] <adamgreig> always a fun learning experience
[17:04] <adamgreig> next time use more cable ;)
[17:04] <lz1dev> but at what cost
[17:06] <Ian_> Mains or battery powered vapourisation?
[17:06] <Flerb> batteryu
[17:06] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488928E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:06] <Ian_> Rather a cable than a board
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:06] <Ian_> Hello
[17:07] <mbales_> hello
[17:07] <Flerb> scorched granddad's table a bit
[17:07] <Flerb> he doesnt realyl mind
[17:07] <Flerb> for science
[17:09] <Ian_> That's what doilies were made for. As long as the soldering iron doesn't scortch his carpet whilst apologising about the table
[17:12] <adamgreig> i knew someone who spilled something all over a college-owned table, so tried to clean it up with acetone
[17:12] <adamgreig> acetone: a good solvent
[17:12] <adamgreig> table: not so much a table any longer
[17:12] <adamgreig> to be fair, who tops a table with something that dissolves in acetone? cheap rubbish furniture and it got what was coming to it
[17:13] <mattbrejza> how did he explain that to the college? 'i accidently the whole table'?
[17:13] <adamgreig> yep
[17:13] <adamgreig> well it was just melted and smeared everywhere and had holes and shit
[17:13] <adamgreig> clearly it used to be a table
[17:13] <adamgreig> but it had lost whatever pure essence makes a thing a table
[17:14] <adamgreig> now it was just trash
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> polycarbonate is vulnerable to acetone
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> but is otherwise excellent for tables.
[17:14] <lz1dev> link to CVE pls
[17:14] <adamgreig> :P
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[18:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6IIE - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6IIE
[18:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6IIA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6IIA
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[18:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03+27723323884_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%2B27723323884_chase
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[19:11] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
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[20:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-9
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[21:00] Nick change: day- -> day
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[21:51] <infaddict> evening. is software serial a bad idea of talking to GPS from arduino?
[21:53] <Vaizki> probably not if you disable most of the NMEA output sentences and stick to 9600bps, but why not go i2c?
[21:54] <infaddict> yer just toying with ideas. I have reading data working fine with i2c, but struggling to get writing commands (e.g. config) working
[21:54] <Vaizki> not that I've used i2c with ublox myself
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[21:58] <mattbrejza> arduino software serial is a bad idea for anything
[21:59] <infaddict> mmm id heard those rumours but not actually sure wy
[21:59] <infaddict> why
[22:01] <fsphil> it's an interrupt/cpu hog
[22:01] <fsphil> messes up timings
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[22:05] <mfa298> why not use the proper uart port on the avr if you want to talk to the gps via serial
[22:06] <infaddict> the mini pro only has one and i'm debugging via it at the moment. i could stop debugging and use serial for gps but no way to see what its doing.
[22:07] <daveake> The ublox will ignore your debug output if you're just a little bit careful what you send
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[22:07] <daveake> My preference though is i2c for gps
[22:08] <infaddict> yer, i guess i need to invest more time in i2c coding. i found sample code for detecting slave device and reading data and it worked very quickly, showing nav data...
[22:08] <infaddict> however i have yet to find anything writing data via i2c to ublox
[22:08] <infaddict> i want to disable certain messages
[22:08] <infaddict> etc
[22:09] <daveake> it's easy peasy
[22:09] <infaddict> what library do you use daveake?
[22:09] <Upu> haha
[22:09] <infaddict> for i2c
[22:09] <Upu> daveake.c
[22:10] <mfa298> I suspect doing some form of software serial (probably not the existing libraries) for debug would be more effiecient way around to do things if it's serial for debug and serial for gps
[22:10] <infaddict> ;-)
[22:10] <daveake> The Arduino i2c lib works fine
[22:10] <infaddict> wire
[22:10] <infaddict> ?
[22:10] <daveake> GPS code on top is mine
[22:16] <infaddict> so dave are you suggesting using the wire.read and wire.write ?
[22:18] <Upu> have a look at https://github.com/daveake/FlexTrack infaddict
[22:18] <daveake> Beat me to it :)
[22:19] <infaddict> ok thx, looking now!
[22:20] <daveake> That flew on Tuesday btw
[22:20] <daveake> First time out
[22:20] <daveake> Much disabled
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> did it work well?
[22:24] <daveake> yup
[22:25] <daveake> It has fsphil's APRS code but no chance of me flying that :(
[22:25] <jarod> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=896732947060099 Power 96.1 - Atlanta's Hit Music Station
[22:25] <daveake> I'll run lora on its next outing
[22:25] <infaddict> so its using NMEA messages for nav?
[22:25] <infaddict> looks great btw
[22:25] <daveake> yeah
[22:26] <daveake> I should do ubx-only sometime
[22:26] <daveake> Code will probably be a bit smaller
[22:26] <infaddict> one trick i learned today was downloading the ublox software to get quick access to all the hex commands!
[22:28] <daveake> Voyager's "pale blue dot" image was taken 25 years ago tomorrow
[22:28] Babs_ (5191636c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.145.99.108) joined #highaltitude.
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> that was a big moment
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> and also just three and a half months away from the first close view of Pluto
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[22:37] <Upu> where are you located infaddict ?
[22:37] <infaddict> Nr Newcastle
[22:38] <infaddict> a town called South Shields
[22:38] <Upu> oh fellow northerner nice
[22:38] <infaddict> aye
[22:38] <Upu> when are you planning on launching ?
[22:39] <infaddict> spring/summer. only started this whole thing a few weeks ago and parts arriving piecemeal. got pretty much everything except receiver now. so breadboarding and coding.
[22:39] <Upu> do you drive ?
[22:39] <infaddict> well basically as soon as ready and tested i guess
[22:39] <infaddict> yep
[22:40] <Upu> have to get you down to a launch
[22:40] <infaddict> yer that'd be great
[22:40] <infaddict> sure i would learn a lot
[22:41] <infaddict> where do u guys launch from?
[22:41] <Upu> We may be doing one in April if you're about you can drive to me and I'll drive from there
[22:41] <Upu> Ross on Wye
[22:42] <infaddict> That's a canny drive - nearly Wales ;-)
[22:42] <Upu> yup
[22:43] <Upu> launching from up North is a pita
[22:43] <Upu> rare you get the winds
[22:43] <daveake> all motorway
[22:43] <infaddict> Saying that I have family in Cornwall so often drive that way
[22:43] <infaddict> yer i was researching launch sites up here and its not great
[22:43] <infaddict> Otterburn in Northumberland is one
[22:43] <Upu> you can launch anywhere you get a NOTAM
[22:43] <infaddict> most predictions land in North sea.
[22:43] <Upu> whether you'd want to is another matter
[22:43] <Upu> yes
[22:43] <infaddict> unless i drive to west coast
[22:43] <Upu> and there in lies the issue
[22:44] <infaddict> it has a bonus when riding the coast to coast (90 miles) but for HAB it crap!
[22:44] <Babs_> evening Upu - quick one - the MXT2 - it runs ok off 3v3?
[22:44] <Upu> yes Babs_
[22:45] <Babs_> cool thanks
[22:45] <Babs_> schematic almost done
[22:45] <Upu> making a thing ?
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[22:45] <Upu> supply for MTX2 is 2.9V to 15V
[22:46] <Upu> its 2.7V internally
[22:48] <Babs_> i realise this is undoubtedly the Eagle equivalent of bad handwriting but
[22:48] <Babs_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/15899805174/
[22:49] <Upu> C6 is wrong
[22:49] <Upu> should go to GND not 3V3
[22:50] <Ian_> :) Fuzzy logic?
[22:50] <Upu> I have no idea what T1 is doing :)
[22:50] <Babs_> c6 top left?
[22:50] <Upu> yes on the regulator
[22:50] <infaddict> early shift for me so catch u later guys
[22:50] <Upu> nigth infaddict
[22:50] <Ian_> Are you guys working from a script at the moment?
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[22:51] <Upu> making it up as I go along Ian_
[22:52] <Ian_> Predictably. Before I saw the image(?) I was about to say that the nearest I have got to Eagle was the comic as a kid. Still to get to grips with it.
[22:52] <Babs_> where is t1?
[22:53] <Upu> down by the GPS
[22:53] <Babs_> ahhh, i am replicating your en button thing
[22:54] <Babs_> i realise by saying button i have just humiliated myself in front of the entire group
[22:54] <Upu> lol no humiliation here
[22:54] <Babs_> basically, as i understand it as soon as you power the gps it punts out nmea statements
[22:54] <Upu> yes it does
[22:54] <Babs_> so i just switch it on, then immediately clear the buffer, then turn off the statements
[22:55] <Babs_> and it works pretty well
[22:55] <Upu> yeah
[22:55] <Upu> but that is a fet
[22:55] <Upu> GND on one side
[22:55] <Upu> GND on the other
[22:55] <Upu> with a pull down
[22:55] <Babs_> logic level mosfet
[22:56] <Upu> but it doesn't do anything you're trying to connect GND to GND
[22:56] <Upu> are you trying to make a power switch for the GPS ?
[22:56] <Vaizki> also on the radio, you have switches leading to 3v3 .. but no pulldown resistors to GND if the switches aren't closed
[22:56] <Babs_> http://bildr.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/rfp30n06le-arduino-solenoid.png
[22:56] <Upu> you've not replicated that circuit
[22:57] <Upu> trying to make an on off switch for the GPS ?
[22:57] <Babs_> yes exactly
[22:57] <Upu> ok
[22:57] <Upu> I'll give you the circuit
[22:57] <Upu> but advice : don't bother
[22:57] <Upu> its not needed
[22:58] <Babs_> if i am doing it should it go at the 3v3 side on the top right of the gps?
[22:58] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/pG9Qqet.png
[22:58] <Upu> nope both sides of it are connected to GND
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Well he is lifting the entire GPS off ground..
[23:00] <Babs_> i need to go over to #privateequityfinancialmodelling to restore my dignity
[23:00] <Babs_> thanks upu - i can replicate that. two q's
[23:01] <Upu> lol no don't worry about it best get it right
[23:01] <Babs_> 1. connecting vbackup to vcc is correct when i am not using a backup battery?
[23:01] <Upu> correct my circuit was for the older MAX7's
[23:01] <Babs_> cool i read the m8 datasheet correctly then
[23:02] <Babs_> 2. what is the value of your resistor R10 reading 100R?
[23:02] <Upu> 100ohms
[23:02] <Babs_> great, got it
[23:02] <Babs_> its ok for a 1st go i guess
[23:03] <Upu> way better than mine :)
[23:03] <Vaizki> but fix the p0 & p1 switches too
[23:03] <Vaizki> if you really need them...
[23:03] <Upu> I wouldn't bother with those either tbh :)
[23:03] <Babs_> i'm trying a couple of things out, that one was so i could modify the frequency on the fly
[23:04] <Upu> sure
[23:04] <Vaizki> well if they're both ON no need to fix :)
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[23:06] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q50d445i864sfog/atmega3.brd?dl=0
[23:06] <Upu> that was my first one
[23:06] <Upu> square vias... :/
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[23:06] <qyx_> btw i used the same setup for a quectel gps
[23:06] <qyx_> with vbat connected to vcc
[23:07] <qyx_> it was able to hotstart in 2secs
[23:08] <Vaizki> time to sleep, 1 am&
[23:09] <Ian_> UK +2. goodnight Vaizki
[23:09] <Babs_> vaizki - like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/16521474672/
[23:10] <Vaizki> no you need resistors between GND and the pins
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[23:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> remove the switch as well!
[23:10] <Vaizki> otherwise closing the switch will short out your power supply
[23:10] <Vaizki> but I'd just get rid of the switch and tie those to GND
[23:12] <Babs_> i thought that p0 and p1 just needed to receive 3.3v or 0 as the case may be
[23:12] <Babs_> ?
[23:12] <Babs_> according to which of the four frequencies one was after
[23:13] <Upu> they do
[23:13] <Upu> you need to pull them down
[23:13] <Vaizki> yes but you can't connect them to GND and 3v3 at the same time without a pullup/down resistor on either one
[23:13] <Upu> via some 10k resistors or something
[23:14] <Vaizki> without resistors you're creating a short circuit with "infinite" current flow
[23:14] <Vaizki> meaning something's going to fry
[23:14] <Upu> anyway night all
[23:14] <Babs_> cheers upu
[23:14] <Vaizki> same for me, gotta sleep
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[23:19] <Babs_> any better? https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/16334868688/
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[23:24] <arko> Babs_ you took a photo of your screen?
[23:25] <Babs_> yes, i need to set up a github
[23:25] <Babs_> hey arko
[23:26] <arko> hi hi
[23:26] <arko> you can also take screenshots with the Snipping Tool in windows
[23:27] <arko> on apple: Command + Shift + 4
[23:27] <arko> :P
[23:27] <Babs_> i'm watching terminator 2. sarah connor is about to do the dream thing where your 'hood gets toasted
[23:27] <arko> LOL
[23:28] <arko> i'll keep an eye out for robots
[23:28] <Babs_> does https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/16334868688/ make sense?
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[23:28] <Babs_> have you seen this HAB? http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Pictures/Pictures/Terminator2-10.jpg
[23:29] <arko> Babs_: not sure on the device
[23:29] <arko> Upu would know the device config better
[23:30] <Babs_> p0 and p1 can be switched on and off, 4 possible positions for the 2 switches selecting 4 posible frequencies
[23:30] <qyx_> Babs_: no, you need to connect the puldowns from P0/P1
[23:30] <qyx_> so pin2 of SW1 directly to P0 and pulldown to gnd
[23:31] <qyx_> pin1 of sw1 to P1 and pulldown to gnd
[23:31] <Babs_> qyx_ can you draw it?
[23:31] <qyx_> and pins 3&4 to vcc
[23:31] <Babs_> sorry, just saw your text
[23:31] <Babs_> will get amending
[23:32] <Babs_> nope, don't understand - can you draw it please?
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[23:34] <Laurenceb_> anyone here used si446x?
[23:35] <arko> your pull up and pull downs are on the wrong side
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> im interested in what silicon revisions people have
[23:35] <arko> err
[23:35] <arko> pull downs
[23:36] <arko> err no wait, pullups
[23:36] <Laurenceb_> Digikey have version A1, thats 3 revisions old O_o
[23:36] <arko> wait
[23:36] <arko> they arent doing either
[23:38] <Babs_> i don't know the distinction i'm afraid
[23:38] <qyx_> Babs_: http://i.imgur.com/bGHIXjy.png
[23:39] <arko> hahaha
[23:39] <qyx_> this way you will have P0 and P1 connected to gnd using pulldowns by default
[23:39] <arko> amazing
[23:39] <qyx_> when the switches are opened
[23:39] <qyx_> and if you close them, they will "override" the pullups and your P0/P1 will be at vcc level
[23:39] <arko> love the ms paint eagle
[23:39] <Babs_> isn't that that? https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/16336601687/
[23:39] <arko> there ya go
[23:40] <qyx_> yes it is
[23:41] <Babs_> got it - thanks
[23:41] <Babs_> i had done it right earlier and posted the wrong photo, so i didn't understand when it was wrong
[23:41] <Babs_> user error: duhhhh Babs
[23:41] <qyx_> yep i was just reading the backlog and saw you posted the same picture twice
[23:43] <Babs_> i think i need some sleep ;-)
[23:43] <Babs_> thanks for your help guys
[23:44] <qyx_> np, gn o/
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 14 2015