highaltitude.log.20150212

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[00:20] <mightymik> anyone else trying gnuradio on raspi2?
[00:21] <arko> have you?
[00:41] <anerdev> mightymik no ... Warning: do not flash the raspi2. He will reboot, have a problem with the U16 chip :))
[00:41] <anerdev> good night guys
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[00:43] <mightymik> i'm researching it, but only have 1 monitor
[00:44] <arko> im very curious to see vision processing tests
[00:44] <mightymik> article here : http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/blog/taking-the-raspberry-pi-2-for-a-test-drive-with-gnu-radio-2?/designspark/electronics/blog/taking-the-raspberry-pi-2-for-a-test-drive-with-gnu-radio-2=
[00:45] <mightymik> having problems w/ Pi2 locking up if i use the browser
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[00:49] <mightymik> but i'm hopeful for a dedicated Pi2 SDR radio setup
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[02:37] <mightymik-rpi2> weeeeooooo ...
[02:38] <mightymik-rpi2> GRC did install : /
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[03:44] <lz1dev> http://spacenear.us/sats/
[03:44] <lz1dev> ax25 transmitting cubesat
[03:44] <lz1dev> http://www.aer.ita.br/~aesp14/cram.html
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[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH30-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AETH30-1
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH30-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AETH30-2
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH49-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AETH49-4
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AF5LI-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AF5LI-11
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AIRCOR-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-1
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ATSAT-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-1
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ATSAT-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-2
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ATSAT-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATSAT-3
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03E29AJP-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=E29AJP-11
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC_Alt1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC_Alt1
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K2JJI-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K2JJI-11
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K6RPT-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP-8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP-8
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD8SVI-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD8SVI-12
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-6
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-7
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7IXX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7IXX-11
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LUTEIJN - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LUTEIJN
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OHUP - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OHUP
[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_SKY_PLUS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
[06:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PROJECT1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PROJECT1
[06:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PROJECT2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PROJECT2
[06:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VENUS1-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VENUS1-2
[06:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WIDE1-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WIDE1-1
[06:42] <x-f> spammy bot is spammy :/
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[06:51] <jcoxon> oh dear
[06:51] <jcoxon> mass launch?
[06:51] <jcoxon> :-)
[06:52] <arko> lol
[06:57] <x-f> something on a positive note - http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1506a/
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[07:01] <SpeedEvil> hah
[07:10] <Reb-SM0ULC> x-f: coool
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[07:24] <Upu> heh bad bot
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[07:25] <lz1dev> fix servers pls
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[07:38] <Upu> which servers ?
[07:40] <lz1dev> no idea, that was some server hicup
[07:40] <lz1dev> even DanielRichman dropped
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[08:35] <DanielRichman> I dropped because I rebooted my VPS
[08:37] <jarod> wow, 147.3 kHz: DDH47 - DWD, F1B-50-85, Pinneberg/Hamburg, DEU is off air
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[08:46] <lz1dev> DanielRichman: hmm wierd then
[08:46] <lz1dev> how did the bot get a empty reponse from the server ?
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[09:05] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[09:05] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[09:09] <Piet0r> Powernap!
[09:09] <Ian_> Google balloon Constellation . . . the armada is coming.
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[09:13] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:14] <SpeedEvil> Ello
[09:14] <GW8RAK> Morning Lunar_Lander
[09:14] <GW8RAK> Some serious HAB'ing here http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/about_bas/news/news_story.php?id=2894
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[09:19] <Lunar_LanderU> hi GW8RAK :)
[09:20] <fsphil> heh, it made a crater
[09:20] <GW8RAK> Hi, how are things with you?
[09:20] <fsphil> US pico
[09:20] <GW8RAK> I was wondering that fsphil, but it could be due to wind or localised reflected sunlight.
[09:20] <fsphil> yea more likely
[09:21] <fsphil> impressive looking machine
[09:22] <GW8RAK> I wonder how big the balloon was?
[09:26] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaYqKqeBuHo
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[09:32] <GW8RAK> I wonder how they got a NOTAM for that?
[09:33] <Ian_> Maybe just filed a flight plan . . . looks around the sky and nothing in sight
[09:33] <Ian_> Checks that neighbours aren't watching.
[09:33] <Ian_> Substitute for regular sonde - no one will notice
[09:34] <fsphil> don't think the penguins will be too bothered
[09:34] <GW8RAK> Certainly scared the polar bears away.
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[09:41] <Darkside> >polar bears
[09:41] <Darkside> >antarctica
[09:43] <GW8RAK> I told you it scared them away :)
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[09:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-12 after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
[09:54] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[10:28] <Laurenceb> any UK launches today?
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[11:55] <Jacob_> Does anyone know if a halo antenna would be feasible on a payload and if so what is the current draw for the antenna?
[11:56] <mfa298> Halo antenna could be intersting but will probably be horizontal polarisation rather than vertical
[11:57] <edmoore> it's 'feasible' but i don't see why you'd especially wan't to do it
[11:57] <mfa298> and most balloon tracking stations are setup for vertical polarisation
[11:57] <edmoore> but the other point is your question about current
[11:58] <edmoore> if it's 50 ohm antenna then it'll just use the same current as any other 50 ohm antenna for a given transmitter peak-to-peak voltage
[11:58] <edmoore> i.e. antennas don't 'take' current, you feed them with a variable voltage using an amplifier (this is all built into the ntx2) and that defines your transmission power
[11:59] <Jacob_> my issue is that im trying to launch a balloon under the small balloon requirements so it cant exceed 2m in height. so an antenna sticking out the bottom causes a problem.
[11:59] <edmoore> ah right, that's a nice idea then
[11:59] <edmoore> look at big-wheel antennas too
[11:59] <Jacob_> how much do they weigh?
[11:59] <edmoore> how long is a piece of string?
[12:00] <Jacob_> ha
[12:00] <edmoore> however long you make it
[12:00] <edmoore> if you make it out of spider-silk thin copper, almost nothing
[12:00] <edmoore> if you make it out of domestic water supply copper pipes, a lot
[12:00] <edmoore> note that most people who launch within the 2m exemption make the balloons quite a bit smaller than 2m
[12:01] <edmoore> so that the entire system can stay within 2m
[12:01] <Jacob_> yeah or balloon has a burst diameter of 1.6m atm
[12:01] <Jacob_> my*
[12:01] <edmoore> so if you're using say 70cm wavelengths for your radio and building a lightweight payload, you don't need to do any of this novel antenna stuff (not that i'd want to discourage you)
[12:02] <edmoore> ok, well that leaves you 40cm
[12:02] <Laurenceb> Jacob_: what frequency is your balloon?
[12:02] <edmoore> you can easily fit payload+434mhz antenna into 40cm
[12:02] <edmoore> Jacob_, that's a question for debroglie
[12:02] <edmoore> sorry, Laurenceb, that's a question for debroglie
[12:03] <Jacob_> im hoping to transmit at 434mhz
[12:03] <Laurenceb> how babby formed
[12:03] <edmoore> Jacob_, ok, you probably don't have a problem then
[12:03] <edmoore> you don't have to invent anything new to do this, it's just normal pico payload territory
[12:04] <Jacob_> with a downward facing antenna?
[12:04] <edmoore> depends on what you mean by a downward facing antenna
[12:04] <edmoore> we just use a 1/4wave with ground plane
[12:04] <edmoore> with the 1/4wave element pointing down, yes
[12:05] <Jacob_> and how long is that 1/4wave antenna usually?
[12:05] <Jacob_> or is that the string question again?
[12:06] <edmoore> the clue is in the name
[12:06] <edmoore> so instead of telling you we'll calculate it together
[12:06] <edmoore> so our transmission frequency is 434Mhz, right?
[12:06] <Jacob_> yup
[12:07] <edmoore> the speed of light in a vacuum is 300000000m/s
[12:07] <edmoore> (3e8 m/s)
[12:07] <x-f> (i love these moments on #ha)
[12:08] <edmoore> so the wavelength of a sine wave is the speed at which it travels divided by its frequency
[12:08] <edmoore> which in our case is 3e8/434e6
[12:08] <edmoore> happy with that idea?
[12:08] <edmoore> if you do that division you get 0.69m
[12:09] <Jacob_> c=f(lamda)
[12:09] <edmoore> precisely that, yes
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[12:09] <edmoore> so 0.69m is about 70cm, which is why you'll see people refer to this band as '70cm'
[12:09] <edmoore> hams use it interchangeably with frequency
[12:09] <edmoore> just like the say '2m' for the 144mhz band
[12:10] <edmoore> ok, so one wavelength is about 70cm
[12:10] <Jacob_> 17.5cm antenna
[12:10] <edmoore> the 1/4wavelegnth antenna is (as you've probs figured out by now) 70cm/4
[12:10] <edmoore> exactly
[12:10] <edmoore> so that's how long it is
[12:10] <edmoore> however there is one slight detail that doesn't really metter
[12:10] <edmoore> but we'll do it for completeness
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[12:11] <edmoore> the speed of light (well, an electrical field) in copper wire is a bit slower than in a vacuum
[12:11] <edmoore> about 0.95*vacuum speed
[12:11] <edmoore> that means you want the antenna to be about 17.5*0.95 = 16.6cm
[12:12] <edmoore> *however* it's really not going to make a big difference if you don't worry too much about that
[12:12] <Jacob_> so i need my payload to take up now more than 20cm to be safe
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[12:12] <edmoore> Jacob_, exactly
[12:12] <edmoore> and that's very doable
[12:12] <edmoore> so i think you're laughing, so to speak
[12:12] <edmoore> you're in business
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[12:14] <Jacob_> You've been very helpful :) Would you suggest i make the antenna? And if so im not particularly clued in on how to tune it
[12:14] <Jacob_> Sorry for flooding the channel
[12:14] <edmoore> no need to apologise, this is precisely why this channel exists
[12:14] <edmoore> so there's a good guide for making antennas on the ukhas wiki
[12:15] <edmoore> i'll try and find it, if anyone else has it closer to hand then please post the link
[12:15] <edmoore> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[12:15] <edmoore> there you go
[12:16] <edmoore> so it's an antenna with the 1/4 wave element and a 'ground plane'
[12:16] <edmoore> the ground plane is in theory in infinitely long big plane which reflects the signal down
[12:16] <edmoore> in engineering reality is 4 wires which stick outwards that do a good enough approximation of a solid groundplane spreading infitinely far
[12:19] <Jacob_> and then use a yagi-uda on the ground?
[12:21] <edmoore> that's often opverkill
[12:21] <edmoore> just a similar antenna but pointing up is often adequete for a few hundred km range
[12:21] <edmoore> and doesn't require being pointed
[12:21] <edmoore> off for lunch, bbiab
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[12:30] <infaddict> any ideas for best way to solder/connect the A4/A5 pins which sit in the middle of the Arduino mini pro board? header pin and wire soldered to the pin?
[12:31] <infaddict> not very shock proof but would work
[12:32] <infaddict> long term (subsequent flights) I intend to probably get a custom made PCB which would solve this issue. but looking simpler/cheaper for first flight.
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[12:48] <fsphil> used up A0-A3?
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[12:49] <fsphil> careful soldering and some strain relief might be the best bet
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[13:05] <edmoore> back
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GRIFFEN - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GRIFFEN
[13:13] <Vaizki> infaddict, solder + hot glue?
[13:14] <infaddict> hey phil. i need I2C which is A4/5 only
[13:14] <infaddict> according to datasheet
[13:14] <infaddict> yer Vaizki sounds like a good solder joint then something to re-enforce such as glue or heat wrap
[13:15] <fsphil> strange that they didn't add those pins to the edge
[13:15] <fsphil> unless they're sticking to an existing layout
[13:16] <edmoore> holy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950648/Toxic-orange-cloud-created-nitric-acid-explosion-chemical-plant-spreads-FIVE-Spanish-towns-forcing-authorities-order-stay-inside.html
[13:16] <Vaizki> agent orange :O
[13:16] <Vaizki> well at least you can see it
[13:17] <edmoore> it's not agent orange thankfully
[13:17] <edmoore> but it's still not cool
[13:18] <edmoore> that stuff dissolves your lungs
[13:18] <infaddict> phil, yep its a bit of a pain tbh. nice neat pins on all others except those 4 analogs
[13:19] <infaddict> i dont trust male/female header connection so soldering is only way i think
[13:19] <Vaizki> but they're still thru-holes right?
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[13:19] <infaddict> yep still holes
[13:19] <infaddict> so can either solder wire direct... or use pins... or something else
[13:19] <Vaizki> is the spacing 2.54mm?
[13:20] <infaddict> not sure will have to check schematic or measure
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[13:21] <Vaizki> maybe you could solder a connector on
[13:21] <infaddict> yep appear to be same spacing as the outer edge holes
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[13:22] <infaddict> just measured
[13:22] <fsphil> my first board used standard headers with glue to keep them on
[13:22] <infaddict> mmm but what type of connection i wonder. something clip on would be nice. i.e. wont detach
[13:22] <infaddict> phil, what type of glue?
[13:22] <fsphil> the board snapped on landing, but those connections are still solid today :)
[13:22] <infaddict> haha!
[13:22] <fsphil> standard superglue
[13:23] <fsphil> but it wasn't very neat
[13:23] <fsphil> if you don't intend on removing it, soldering the wires in and a blob of glue to hold them down is probably best
[13:24] <infaddict> i think once ive soldered wires in i probably wont ever remove them. i have a second arduino board for my PCB version which will be much later, once lessons learned etc.
[13:24] <Vaizki> if you have unused holes on the edge, you can route the wires through them for extra strain relief
[13:24] <Vaizki> (kludge makes the world go round)
[13:25] <infaddict> ok thanks guys. great progress last night. got 2 temp sensors working and also logging data to a SD card.
[13:25] <infaddict> tonights project is the GPS.
[13:25] <infaddict> still cant do any radio work as my receiver not arrived
[13:26] <Vaizki> so are you breadboarding it?
[13:26] <infaddict> yer just breadboard for now
[13:26] <Vaizki> what receiver are you waiting on? rtl-sdr?
[13:26] <infaddict> cheap sdr dongle
[13:26] <infaddict> i have habamp to go with it
[13:26] <infaddict> gonna see how it does
[13:26] <Vaizki> that'd be the one.. oooooo
[13:26] <Vaizki> that's fancy that is
[13:26] <infaddict> hopefully ok for my HAB needs
[13:27] <infaddict> i do need to solder some SMA connectors to the habamp, something i've never done before
[13:28] <infaddict> fairly big footprint
[13:28] <Vaizki> so you got the naked one?
[13:28] <infaddict> not sure how to do it if i'm honest
[13:28] <infaddict> yer
[13:28] <infaddict> idea is i want to make my own enclosure to hold dongle and amp
[13:28] <infaddict> probably 3d printed
[13:28] <Vaizki> I would just go hammond
[13:29] <infaddict> or an old box haha. my mate has access to 3d printer so we've been mucking on with that
[13:29] <Vaizki> a hammond box will probably be cheaper and better protected :)
[13:29] <mattbrejza> and metal... (for shielding
[13:29] <mattbrejza> )
[13:29] <infaddict> yer possibly
[13:30] <Vaizki> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1590B/HM151-ND/131015
[13:30] <Vaizki> something like that
[13:30] <infaddict> aluminium so should be fairly light i guess?
[13:31] <Vaizki> 224.07 grams according to the page there
[13:31] <Vaizki> but they make those in all sizes
[13:31] <infaddict> i would need to cut holes for RF antenna and USB dongle connection
[13:32] <infaddict> antenna is small SMA and circular so just a drill...
[13:32] <infaddict> USB square a bit more challenging
[13:33] <Vaizki> make it round and 3d print a grommet ;)
[13:33] <infaddict> good idea!
[13:34] <Vaizki> or just pull a usb extension cable though the hole and use a normal weather sealing passthrough
[13:35] <infaddict> yep i have an extension cable already so can also do that
[13:35] <infaddict> any ideas on soldering a SMA connection to the habamp? will do some googling on that type of soldering.
[13:35] <infaddict> Upuwork clearly does it a lot
[13:36] <Vaizki> something like http://www.newmarpower.com/Waterproof_Fittings_Thru-Dex_Series/Waterproof_Fittings_Thru-Dex_Series.html
[13:36] <Vaizki> obviously those are going to cost you
[13:37] <Vaizki> but ebay can probably provide something that will hold out rain if not allow for deepsea diving
[13:37] <infaddict> not sure if needs to be 100% weatherproof. as the solution needs a laptop it means not weather friendly anyway! I'm not taking my macbook out in the rain ;-)
[13:38] <infaddict> thats where a scanner comes in great
[13:38] <Vaizki> so this is for mobile tracking?
[13:38] <infaddict> yer for car tracking mainly (mag mount) and then possibly yagi directional too (depends on weather haha)
[13:38] <Vaizki> the habamp should be as close to the antenna as possible btw
[13:39] <infaddict> ok. guessing there has to be some coax going thru window to roof. but no more than 1m probably.
[13:40] <Vaizki> won't really matter :)
[13:40] <infaddict> habamp is a lot smaller than i thought. in fact most boards are compared to pics!
[13:43] <Vaizki> yea well look at your cell phone which is probably 90% battery, screen, case & connectors / buttons..
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[13:44] <Vaizki> actually the habamp boxed version also uses a hammond aluminum box
[13:44] <Vaizki> so they are upu-approved :)
[13:45] <infaddict> yer i was very close to buying the boxed version, but fancied trying to enclose my dongle and amp all in one nice solution
[13:46] <fsphil> they where designed to fit the hammond box
[13:47] <Vaizki> well if your usb dongle and amp are going to be in the same box, I don't really see a need for sma-sma-coax-mcx (or whatever) to connect them?
[13:48] <infaddict> yes they could be wired together directly
[13:48] <Vaizki> just get a mcx pigtail (chop up the useless antenna in the dongle bundle maybe) and solder the coax directly to the LNA?
[13:48] <infaddict> phil, didnt know that, box looks quite tight. also want to draw power from the usb connection to the habamp
[13:49] <fsphil> yea you'd have no room for extra bits
[13:50] <Vaizki> I would just run the habamp off a battery I think
[13:52] <infaddict> i'm opening up the usb dongle anyway so fairly easy to hook into the 5v headers
[13:52] <infaddict> will put more drain on laptop however
[13:54] <edusupport> Another EDUPIC board from Hackvana TinaPhone
[13:54] <edusupport> Scratch Projects
[13:54] <edusupport> Pi Book
[13:54] <edusupport> phone
[13:54] <edusupport> Parallels
[13:54] <edusupport> Microsoft User Data
[13:54] <edusupport> MDSO-LA User Guide
[13:54] <edusupport> eagle
[13:54] <edusupport> Adobe CS6 Master Collection (Mac)
[13:54] <edusupport> Adobe
[13:54] <edusupport> index.html
[13:54] <edusupport> HM
[13:54] <edusupport> generate
[13:54] <edusupport> BS Pay Ref 31-07-14
[13:54] <edusupport> T-MAX.pdf
[13:54] <edusupport> Another EDUPIC board from hackvana http://imgur.com/IRNJtFm
[13:54] <edusupport> Dont know what happened there :/
[13:55] <Vaizki> why are you opening the dongle btw?
[13:57] <infaddict> 1) hook into 5v supply 2) change crappy mini antenna connector to SMA. that was plan. but you've planted an interesting idea about point 2)
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[14:16] <edmoore> ls | pbcopy?
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[14:28] <Laurenceb> what is this
[14:28] <Laurenceb> ##ls
[14:29] <nats`> http://rt.com/news/231683-chemical-blast-barcelona-igualada/
[14:30] <Laurenceb> nitrogen tetroxide?
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[14:31] <edmoore> [13:16] <edmoore> holy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950648/Toxic-orange-cloud-created-nitric-acid-explosion-chemical-plant-spreads-FIVE-Spanish-towns-forcing-authorities-order-stay-inside.html
[14:31] <edmoore> that's the kind of accident that could occur in the bay about thirty meters away from where i'm typing this
[14:31] <edmoore> and why i have emergency breathing aparatus under my desk
[14:32] <Laurenceb> ah nitric acid
[14:32] <Laurenceb> looks like nitrogen oxides then
[14:32] <nats`> time for free chip decap under the rain
[14:32] <Laurenceb> lol
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[14:34] <edmoore> it becomes nitric acid again when you breathe it and it absorbs into the fluid in your lungs
[14:34] <edmoore> and then dissolves them
[14:34] <Ian_> Visualises edmoore in black plastic bag and BA praying for wind . . .
[14:35] <edmoore> pretty much
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[14:36] <Ian_> Can't say that I would blame you either.
[14:36] <Ian_> Run through that and come out with etched eyeballs
[14:38] <Laurenceb> what are peoples thoughts on the risk of narrowband interference at altitude?
[14:38] <Laurenceb> I'm working on an uplink atm
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[14:38] <Laurenceb> 500hz narrowband filter on the balloon, I'm planning to add AFA on the payload
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[14:39] <Ian_> On the ground, an airborne signal can be heard a long way away from a signal source at altitude.
[14:41] <Ian_> Unfortunately a receiver at that same altitude can potentially hear an awful lot of potentially interfering signals from the ground. It's receive noise floor is likely to be quite high.
[14:41] <daveake> I've not tried an upload yet, but I had 1 balloon rx LoRa from another
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[14:44] <M6XiMaN> Voltera is now available on Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/voltera/voltera-your-circuit-board-prototyping-machine
[14:44] <M6XiMaN> Seems it won't come with reflow capability after all
[14:45] <edmoore> building hardware doesn't suck
[14:45] Action: edmoore closes tab
[14:46] <daveake> " forced to mess around with dangerous chemicals"
[14:46] <daveake> No, that's entertainment
[14:46] <nats`> this project is a rip off
[14:47] <nats`> in the worst case make a PCB with a CNC
[14:47] <nats`> like a modified proxxon
[14:47] <nats`> but inked pcb.....
[14:47] <nats`> seriously....
[14:47] <M6XiMaN> Dual layer. but not double-sided
[14:47] <M6XiMaN> Also "Once your board is ready for components to be added, set your iron to 240 C and solder away! (Reflow onto Voltera printed boards is currently under development)"
[14:47] <nats`> 10kOhm the 1cm trace ? :D
[14:47] <M6XiMaN> Does this mean if you try to reflow it will b0rk the ink?
[14:50] <Laurenceb> daveake: I'm a little worried about the rejection performance of LORA
[14:50] <Laurenceb> thats why im using narrowband with si446x
[14:51] <daveake> ok
[14:51] <daveake> I'm going to do more flights soon, including uploads
[14:54] <Laurenceb> should be fun
[14:55] <Laurenceb> well ive written AFA and AFC now
[14:55] <Laurenceb> gunna call this thing 4chan
[14:56] <Laurenceb> as it has one channel with 3 backups
[14:56] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/blob/master/Silabs/si446x.c
[14:58] <Laurenceb> should have -135dBm Rx performance, but thats quite hard ot test in the lab :D
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[15:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Go onthen what's AFA ?
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[15:03] <Laurenceb> active frequency avoidance
[15:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> right ... thenks does it attempt to decode any signal then change if not the one wanted ?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> so it scans RSSI and looks for valid packets, if it has high RSSI and invalid data it jumps
[15:04] <Laurenceb> yes, the si446x is very aggressive at trying to decode stuff
[15:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> so how do you know at the far end where to transmit ?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> which helps here, as if it gets a succession of invalid packets its probably noise
[15:04] <Ian_> So, if interference on the transmitting channel then it hops elsewhere and transmits into the void?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> it changes in 300hz steps, so you look for the carrier at the ground station
[15:05] <Laurenceb> Ian_: yes
[15:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> is this a design in reliability then ?
[15:05] <Ian_> The ground station has to search for the signal within a predictable range
[15:05] <Laurenceb> but theres only 4 channels at 300hz spacing, so 900hz max difference
[15:06] <Laurenceb> Geoff-G8DHE: yes
[15:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ok not so bad in that case
[15:06] <Ian_> Ah, to not too mysterious then.
[15:06] <Laurenceb> yeah i designed it to fit into fldigi
[15:06] <Laurenceb> the downlink from the balloon is RTTY
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> can it not transmit the freq. its going to switch to on the basis that you are listening on the original
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[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> bit like wifi allocation, scan all decide which send packet saying whic is best then switch to it.
[15:09] <Laurenceb> i guess
[15:09] <Laurenceb> but that would require ground station support
[15:09] <Laurenceb> atm its semi manual
[15:10] <Laurenceb> ground station is manually set via usb terminal interface
[15:14] <Laurenceb> according to silabs tools this has 4dB worse performance than LoRa at ~200bps, but occupies a fifth of the bandwidth
[15:15] <Laurenceb> so i suspect performance will be comparable or better as LoRa has poor co-channel rejection, and its wide
[15:17] <mattbrejza> thats cochannel rejection to another lora signal though?
[15:17] <Laurenceb> rejection of a CW interference source is also poor with LoRa
[15:18] <mattbrejza> also has the advantage that you can easily make a software pc version
[15:18] <mattbrejza> oh right
[15:18] <mattbrejza> also lora is quite sensitive to drfiting during the transmission
[15:19] <mattbrejza> is there anything special about the transmitter, or is it the reciever that does that hopping thing?
[15:19] <Laurenceb> the transmitter is hopping
[15:20] <Laurenceb> ie. the balloon end
[15:20] <mattbrejza> oh right
[15:20] <Laurenceb> that code is for the balloon
[15:20] <mattbrejza> is there an appnote on this?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> no lol
[15:20] <Laurenceb> i came up with the idea as the hardware hopping isnt useful for balloons
[15:20] <Laurenceb> (imo)
[15:21] <Laurenceb> ground station is here https://github.com/Laurenceb/Tx_board
[15:21] <mattbrejza> oh right, came in late to this discussion
[15:21] <Laurenceb> doesnt have hopping support yet, that will prob just be a single letter command
[15:22] <mattbrejza> so the reciever hops around until it finds a valid transmission then follows the transmitter?
[15:23] <Laurenceb> not exactly
[15:23] <Laurenceb> its designed to be started with the tx and rx on channel0
[15:23] <Laurenceb> if the rx (hab side) gets a string of bad packets with highest RSSI it will jump to the next channel in the sequence
[15:24] <Laurenceb> and the ground station will know it jumped as RTTY will also jump
[15:24] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[15:24] <Laurenceb> also, during uplink to the hab if it gets a packet it will pll onto the carrier and reset the frequency reference for the hole system of channels
[15:24] <Laurenceb> *whole
[15:24] <mattbrejza> could have a system that hops based on gps and communicates which are good channels
[15:25] <Laurenceb> yeah but KISS
[15:25] <mattbrejza> yea saves needing a gps to lock
[15:25] <mattbrejza> to rx
[15:25] <Laurenceb> i guess i could automate the ground side with fldigi -> xmlrpc -> python -> usb terminal
[15:26] <mattbrejza> so can hte si stuff recieve a 200baud signal without needing a really wide signal?
[15:26] <Laurenceb> to channel hop if needed
[15:26] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:26] <mattbrejza> and a TCXO>
[15:26] <Laurenceb> yeah i have 0.5ppm tcxo at each end
[15:26] <Laurenceb> 500hz filter on the rx, then the pll/afc stuff, then another 500hz filter before the modem on the silabs
[15:27] <mattbrejza> so theres the potential of it locking onto a nearby narrow signal?
[15:27] <Laurenceb> no
[15:28] <Laurenceb> it only locks if it gets 0101010 FSK with right timings
[15:28] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[15:28] <mattbrejza> a narrowband alternative to lora would be nice
[15:29] <Laurenceb> i could probably tighten the second filter
[15:29] <Laurenceb> but WDS stupidio wont let me
[15:30] <mattbrejza> lol how kind of it
[15:30] <Laurenceb> https://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadio/Pages/WirelessDevelopmentSuite.aspx
[15:31] <mattbrejza> one of hte nice things about lora is the lack of settings for the modem at least
[15:31] <Laurenceb> haha yeah
[15:34] <edmoore> more pcbs in the oven
[15:34] <edmoore> the way of life atm
[15:35] <mattbrejza> more instrumentation boards?
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[15:40] <edmoore> random stuff
[15:40] <edmoore> a sort of io board that dangles off the end of CAN
[15:40] <edmoore> for random things like valve position feedback, random indication lights, warning sirens, all that sort of thing
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[15:41] <edmoore> a sort of DIY PLC, i suppose
[15:42] <mattbrejza> ah right
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[15:43] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest1767
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[15:53] <Laurenceb> lol my RSSI is overflowing
[15:53] <Laurenceb> wtf
[15:54] <Laurenceb> i suspect some of my coax cable must be leaking 434mhz
[15:55] <Laurenceb> -59dBm with 50ohm loads on either end
[15:55] <Laurenceb> good job i dont have to do CE for this kit
[15:56] <edmoore> presumably, cruise ships must have facilities for freezing dead bodies
[15:57] <Laurenceb> ...
[15:58] <Laurenceb> random irc quotes ++
[15:58] <pc1pcl> What ever happened to a quick 1.2.3. In God's name and over the side?
[15:58] <Laurenceb> reserved for Osama
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[16:07] <Ian_> You just get stuck in the freezer. For large incidents large chiller lorries come in and bodies are stored outside your local recreation centre which can be repurposed as a collection centre, feeding centre, temporary morgue etc.
[16:07] <Laurenceb> feeding centre, temporary morgue
[16:08] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/gMYvj9U.jpg
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[16:22] <Laurenceb> doh
[16:22] <Laurenceb> there is another way to do this
[16:22] <Laurenceb> silabs have a fast scan mode, requiring only 4bit periods at each frequency before hopping
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[16:31] <edmoore> world beating product idea: 25:1 ratio heat-shrink
[16:32] <edmoore> for when you forget to put it on before assembling the connector
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[16:32] <jedas> :)
[16:32] <pc1pcl> I'd buy some of that..
[16:33] <Laurenceb> me 2
[16:34] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgkbhjXTbOE <- nice scam
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[16:40] <Laurenceb> no way that could take off
[16:42] <jedas> the same they say about bumblebees
[16:42] <adamgreig> edmoore: to kickstarter, quick
[16:43] <edmoore> i know
[16:43] <edmoore> i have a canon 5d
[16:43] <edmoore> i heard that's what you need to make the concept video
[16:43] <edmoore> and then i just need to find a technical cofounder to implement my idea
[16:44] <adamgreig> sounds about right
[16:44] <adamgreig> they can get maybe 5% of net
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[16:44] <adamgreig> probably enough to keep them in silly computers and stuff right
[16:45] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[17:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> ping fsphil
[17:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> ping daveake
[17:42] <daveake> fsphil's stand-in pings back
[17:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm anyone know why github is asking for login when coning
[17:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> cloning
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[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> same is happening for yours daveake for the loora-gateway ?
[17:46] <daveake> shouldn't be
[17:46] <daveake> I've never had to provide login details to clone
[17:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> didn't before which is what has bemused me, doesn't accept my github account either
[17:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> getting a 403 message when I login with my own account to use your stuff
[17:48] <daveake> from https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway.git ?
[17:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> yup
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[17:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah repeated command for third time and its worked ....
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[17:50] <towim> Good evening
[17:50] <daveake> I've just cloned onto a spare Pi and it worked as usual
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[17:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah found the problem
[17:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> git not get on the end
[17:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> helps
[17:51] <daveake> <daveake> from https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway.git ?
[17:51] <daveake> <Geoff-G8DHE> yup
[17:51] <daveake> Not to put too fine a point on it ^^ :-)
[17:51] <infaddict> anybody know more details on the chip antenna fitted to this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[17:52] <Upu> evening towim
[17:52] <Upu> yes infaddict https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/JTI_Antenna-1575AT43A40_2006-09.pdf
[17:52] <Upu> what do you want to know ?
[17:52] <daveake> Keep the antenna away from metal (e.g. batteries) and you'll be fine
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[17:53] <infaddict> thx Upu. Interested if its GPS only or supports GLONASS etc
[17:53] <Upu> offically it doesn't but it does
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[17:54] <infaddict> ok, just starting to code my GPS logic and deciding whether to disable GLONASS and BeiDou
[17:54] <infaddict> uBlox datasheet mentions some antenna dont support the latter
[17:55] <Upu> yes disable it
[17:55] <Upu> or power saving won't work
[17:55] <infaddict> perfect, i shall do just that
[17:55] <Upu> just set GPS only GNSS solution
[17:55] <infaddict> will do thx
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[18:10] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: oops :)
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[18:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC12
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[18:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSY
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[18:22] <mclane_> Good evening everybody
[18:22] <mclane_> Can someone approve a flight here ?
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[18:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC_Alt1 after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC_Alt1
[18:26] <Laurenceb> hmm this is slightly annoying
[18:26] <Laurenceb> silabs filters cause packet drop due ot corruption well before they have very large attenuation
[18:26] <Laurenceb> i guess theres no way around that
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> you mean that as tey're digital filters, they overload on theinput?
[18:32] <adamgreig> mclane_: ask in #habhub
[18:33] <mclane_> ok
[18:37] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: they distort the signal
[18:37] <Laurenceb> there is only a +-150hz tuning range
[18:38] <Laurenceb> i think i need to haxor the front end filters to something other than the WDS settings
[18:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSYchase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSYchase
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[18:50] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[18:50] <Laurenceb> tomorrow im going to try custom filter settings :P
[18:51] <Laurenceb> this theres enough info to be gleaned from reverse engineering WDS to simulate the filters in matlab
[18:51] <Laurenceb> s/this/think
[18:52] Action: Laurenceb bbl
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[20:09] <jededu> Is there a list of countries where APRS transmission is not allowed somewhere
[20:10] <jededu> Cant find anything on the wiki
[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If Amateur Radio is allowed then APRS will be, North Korea perhaps ?
[20:11] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:aprs_legislation
[20:11] <craag> Only europe really on there though
[20:11] <jededu> Ah i meant airborne sorry
[20:12] <jededu> thx craag
[20:13] <mfa298> also amateur radio (what you really mean by APRS) is only legal if you have a full license and there's a suitable reciprocal agreement in place (Europe, North America, Australia and a few others are part of CEPT)
[20:14] <jededu> Yes thats what I am aiming for but no harm in writing the code
[20:17] <Vaizki> I don't think you can launch a long term APRS floater and claim honestly that it's going to be legal everywhere..
[20:18] <mfa298> the bit above about AR being allowed airborne in the visited country also applies.
[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If we stick as far possible to the "common" rules and don't cause interference then the chances of a problem are remote I suggest!
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[20:20] <mfa298> So I could fly aprs legally over Germany (I believe the German license allows it and I'd be covered under CEPT) but it wouldn't be legal in China as there's no reciprocal agreement and may not be legal in France (as I'm not sure their license allows APRS airborne,only certain specific frequencies)
[20:20] <mbales_> i believe a group out of the US launched a balloon transmitting APRS that wound up in the mediterranean that was well publicised and no one seemed to object too much
[20:22] <mfa298> for some of it common sense seems to apply, Legally if I had a US license I could use that airborne in the middle of the atlantic but I can't use my UK license airborne in the middle of the atlantic (home country rules seem to apply over international water)
[20:23] <mfa298> but over the UK no one can use AR airborne (visited country rules appear to apply under the CEPT agreement)
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[20:23] <mbales_> hadnt thought about the home country bit, very interesting
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[20:24] <jededu> Still a lot to learn about the legalities, its all a bit vague
[20:24] <mbales_> just a bit
[20:24] <mfa298> of course if you choose to ignore particular rules (the common sense bit) then that's up to you (but probably isn't advisable to recommend to others)
[20:25] <mfa298> that's all my understanding of it and I'm only an armchair lawyer (i.e. I read some stuff and tried to understand it)
[20:25] <jededu> All I wanted to do is code the geofence's but where are definitions
[20:26] <jededu> :)
[20:26] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:26] <mbales_> if you come up with a set Id love to get a copy
[20:27] <mfa298> for the full answer go read the CEPT rules then look at the rules for every country that's allowed - alternatively follow the example set by others and choose to ignore some (or more) rules.
[20:29] <mfa298> I think there was some discussion of this a while back on the mailing list (and I think a few differing opinions)
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[20:31] <jededu> There is more unknown than I expected
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[21:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-8
[21:37] <infaddict> My second night of mucking on has yielded this mess: http://s12.postimg.org/9vbp3d85o/IMG_3297.jpg
[21:37] <infaddict> Amazingly it all works. Getting GPS lock and readings, temperature readings, writing to SD card log too
[21:38] <infaddict> Still to do: Simply voltage divider to monitor batteries.... radio stuff when my receiver arrives
[21:38] <lz1dev> G/fq 11
[21:40] <Upu> infaddict suggestion : drop the SD card
[21:40] <Upu> get it working
[21:40] <Upu> then try add the SD
[21:40] <infaddict> hey Upu. whys that?
[21:41] <Upu> you'll probably run out of program memory/ram/skill when trying to get it all working
[21:41] <infaddict> ah right.
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[21:41] <Upu> the SD card libraries take up lots of memory
[21:41] <infaddict> ive read the std sd library is very RAM hungry
[21:41] <infaddict> snap
[21:41] <Upu> yeah and if you run out of ram you start to get random stuff happening
[21:41] <infaddict> there is a variation of it which doesnt use as much buffers i believe
[21:41] <infaddict> yet to try it
[21:41] <Upu> which is going to throw you
[21:41] <Upu> so take it off
[21:41] <infaddict> ok good advice
[21:41] <Upu> get it working
[21:41] <infaddict> thanks
[21:41] <Upu> then add it
[21:42] <infaddict> yep makes sense, will do that
[21:42] <infaddict> the biggest challenge is going to be the 32k of program space. some of the libs take up 30-50% already!
[21:42] <infaddict> not that i need too much code tbh
[21:42] <Upu> we tried to add SD to Habduino
[21:42] <Upu> but couldn't get it to fit
[21:43] <infaddict> ah right
[21:43] <infaddict> i bookmarked a different SD library which claims to use much less RAM. Need to dig it out and compare. It is possible to monitor RAM with a code command?
[21:44] <Vaizki> well you don't really need a filesystem
[21:44] <Upu> https://github.com/daveake/FlexTrack/blob/master/FlexTrack.ino#L200-L205
[21:44] <Vaizki> just write raw data to the SD
[21:44] <Vaizki> -> much less memory footprint
[21:44] <Upu> yeah we think you can do this
[21:45] <Upu> but again more complex
[21:45] <infaddict> thx Upu will monitor RAM to see whats going on
[21:45] <infaddict> hey Vaizki
[21:45] <Vaizki> hey hey hey
[21:46] <infaddict> how do you then read the raw data then? i like the simplicity of importing a delim file into Excel ;-)
[21:47] <Vaizki> well you just copy the whole contents of the SD card into a file?
[21:47] <Vaizki> dd if=/dev/sdc of=data.txt
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[21:48] <Vaizki> ok so it will have some gigs of crap in the end but cleaning that away shouldn't be too hard? :)
[21:48] <infaddict> interesting
[21:48] <infaddict> any idea how you write raw data?
[21:49] <Vaizki> no, but it'll take me a minute to chec
[21:51] <adamgreig> like, use a filesystem
[21:51] <adamgreig> the overhead is small
[21:51] <adamgreig> it makes life so much easier
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[21:52] <adamgreig> oh hmm I guess on arduino you really do care about flash size :p
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[21:54] <Vaizki> http://www.roland-riegel.de/sd-reader/doc/group__sd__raw.html
[21:54] <Vaizki> looks like something that could be used
[21:55] <mikestir> you can pre-create a fake fat with a single large file in consecutive clusters
[21:55] <mikestir> then just do raw writes on your embedded board, ignoring the filesystem
[21:55] <mikestir> but the pc will still be able to see it as a file
[21:55] <Vaizki> anyway, file systems can be complex and if all you want is one file of log, they're not really needed
[21:56] <Vaizki> mikestir: sure, but if you use a real OS which treats devices as files, it can just use the device node as the file
[21:56] <Vaizki> no need to mount a filesystem and copy the fake file
[21:56] <mikestir> oh yeah sure that's what I'd do (and have done), but I assume he's on windows
[21:56] <infaddict> nope i am a mac guy
[21:56] <infaddict> although own a windows box too
[21:56] <Vaizki> well it works fine with mac
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[21:57] <Vaizki> you can just copy the contents of the raw SD as a file
[21:57] <adamgreig> but it's a pain and if you just use a fat filesystem it becomes so much easier to do things like have multiple log files for each time it starts up and copy them off the card and clear it and stuff
[21:57] <Vaizki> sure but if he runs out of 32kB ram..
[21:58] <infaddict> yep this is something i will fall back on should I run out of RAM. i will try adding a normal filesystem first and see how it copes.
[21:58] <infaddict> thanks for all the info guys. info and links saved away.
[21:58] <Vaizki> or just put a logger on there with it's own mcu ;)
[21:58] <infaddict> the logger isnt essential. a lot of the data should be sent via radio anyway.
[21:59] <infaddict> just nice to easily graph bits and bobs
[21:59] <mikestir> I came in late - I take it someone suggested fatfs?
[21:59] <infaddict> nope
[21:59] <infaddict> looks interesting
[21:59] <infaddict> esp the small footprint part
[22:01] <mikestir> yeah it's tunable - you can turn stuff like long filenames off if you are resource constrained
[22:01] <infaddict> looks like theres a arduino wrapper too: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=37604.0
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[22:10] <Vaizki> https://github.com/jeroennijhof/SDLogger
[22:10] <Vaizki> now that's what I'm talking about ;)
[22:11] <Vaizki> ok that's not 100% well thought out but the idea is right
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[22:13] <Vaizki> I definitely would not keep writing the log length into the first 4 bytes
[22:14] <Vaizki> maybe modern SD cards do balancing to extend lifetime..
[22:14] <mikestir> all sd cards do wear leveling
[22:14] <Vaizki> ok so it's not a problem, I'm just too oldskool again
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[22:15] <mikestir> I think maybe MMC didn't
[22:16] <jededu> 5g :) http://imgur.com/4SBMrpl
[22:17] <Vaizki> nice...
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[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:23] <Vaizki> jededu: is that a PIC?
[22:25] <jededu> It is
[22:29] <Vaizki> I have never used a PIC.. it's like a big hole in my MCU education
[22:29] <jededu> I have only used PIC I have many holes
[22:30] <Vaizki> well I guess it's better to learn one than to bounce around many :)
[22:31] <mikestir> I'd have to disagree with that - they all have their relative merits
[22:31] <Jartza> I've bounced around
[22:32] <Upu> deshell the MTX2 jededu
[22:32] <Vaizki> yea me too, 8051, avr, arm, msp430
[22:32] <Vaizki> but I can't say I master any of them
[22:33] <Upu> or is that deshelled ?
[22:34] <jededu> It is deshelled :)
[22:34] <Upu> Yeah I just weighed my MTX2 board (deshelled) and its 5g :)
[22:34] <Vaizki> is that going on a mylar party balloon then?
[22:34] <Jartza> Vaizki: most of the time mastering isn't needed :)
[22:34] <Jartza> if you get shit done, good :)
[22:34] <Upu> btw let me show you something
[22:35] <Vaizki> yes, kludge runs the world
[22:35] <Jartza> and duct tape
[22:35] <jededu> upu Pico board
[22:36] <Upu> Sorta
[22:36] <Upu> the programming header
[22:36] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/AjZ8c6C.jpg
[22:38] <jededu> Ciool
[22:38] <Vaizki> pyro upu? you put in a payload release via thermal cutting of the balloon string?
[22:38] <Upu> pico pyro
[22:38] <Upu> yes
[22:38] <Upu> accelerometer on there too
[22:38] <Upu> very specific board that one :)
[22:39] <Vaizki> so when it's stopped, it cuts itself down?
[22:40] <Upu> can do that yes
[22:40] <Upu> well not itself
[22:40] <Upu> something else :)
[22:40] <Vaizki> ah. top secret mission.
[22:41] <Upu> but anyway the reason I showed you it jededu was the tag connect header
[22:41] <Jartza> I tried the 8051 like 10 years ago, but I didn't inhale
[22:42] <jededu> This one has a cutdown http://imgur.com/w6D6PaY
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[22:43] <jededu> Ahh i see
[22:43] <Jartza> I thought about tag connect, but made these little bastards instead: https://slack-files.com/T02FEAMUS-F03E9QZ93-10761fe7d3
[22:44] <Upu> yeah those are nice and not as expensive
[22:44] <Jartza> yep
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[22:44] <Jartza> ordered 10 boards and got these: https://slack-files.com/T02FEAMUS-F03CZ16FH-2cf71e01a2
[22:44] <Jartza> :D
[22:45] <jededu> I like it
[22:45] <jededu> Where do you source them from
[22:46] <Upu> you make them
[22:47] <Jartza> jededu: I ordered the board from hackvana and the staggered spring connector from mouser
[22:47] <Jartza> AVX 9188, there are multiple sizes
[22:47] <Jartza> http://www.avx.com/docs/catalogs/9188.pdf
[22:49] <Vaizki> that's an ICSP port?
[22:49] <jededu> But you buy the connector
[22:49] <jededu> ?
[22:49] <Vaizki> for the programmer yes, for the board just leave exposed pads
[22:49] <Jartza> yes, I bought those connectors from mouser
[22:49] <Jartza> Vaizki: ISP
[22:50] <Jartza> yes, board just has plain pads and 2 holes
[22:50] <Jartza> Vaizki: can be used for anything really, which can live with 6 pins.
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[22:51] <Jartza> and the board I drew with eagle and ordered from hackvana
[22:51] <Jartza> got some extra boards, though :D
[22:52] <Vaizki> sure.. I'd imagine you have like 17 extra :)
[22:52] <Upu> ever got any 4 layer boards from Mitrch Jartza ?
[22:52] <Upu> Mitch
[22:52] <Jartza> nope, only 2 layer
[22:52] <Upu> k
[22:52] <Maxell> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1703258614/psdr-pocket-hf-sdr-transceiver-with-vna-and-gps
[22:52] <Maxell> last few hours
[22:52] <jededu> upu where did you source the connector
[22:52] <Maxell> gogogo get one while you can
[22:52] <Jartza> Vaizki: I needed 4, ordered 10, got 34
[22:52] <Jartza> :)
[22:52] <Vaizki> upu is ascending to a level 9 hab thetan it seems
[22:53] <Vaizki> Jartza: yea they have a minimum size so...
[22:53] <Upu> which connector jededu ?
[22:53] <Jartza> yeah, those boards are 14x10mm
[22:53] <jededu> tag
[22:53] <Vaizki> it's a cable
[22:53] <Vaizki> http://www.tag-connect.com/
[22:53] <Upu> direct from tag connect in the States
[22:53] <Upu> the UK disty does do orders below £200
[22:54] <jededu> You should stock them :)
[22:54] <jededu> And put the eagle files up :)
[22:54] <Vaizki> you should give a 0% interest loan to Upu so it makes sense for him to keep thousands worth of parts in stock :)
[22:55] <Upu> I've done a part in Eagle AVR ISCP -> Tag
[22:56] <Jartza> this programming header has only one downside
[22:56] <Jartza> no locking pins
[22:56] <Jartza> https://slack-files.com/T02FEAMUS-F03EC0BH6-4c955491b4
[22:56] <Vaizki> no-legs tag connect has no locking pins either
[22:56] <Jartza> so this kind of magic touch needed. or clothespin :)
[22:57] <Vaizki> and that's what upu has on the board
[22:57] <Jartza> yeah, didn't look that closely
[22:57] <jededu> upu im collecting the payload sat
[22:57] <Upu> awesome
[22:57] <Jartza> but when developing, I use clothespin :)
[22:57] <Upu> Four layer tracker http://gerblook.org/pcb/Zpp6nMrrUXthnnYvLDa4Rg#front
[22:58] <Vaizki> that's for a vertical NTX2B?
[22:58] <Upu> HX1 on the back
[23:01] <Upu> anyway night all
[23:01] <mbales_> thats a good looking board
[23:02] <Jartza> night
[23:02] <mbales_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xnkeia2nzt23ya1/2015-01-20%2008.56.42.jpg?dl=0
[23:02] <mbales_> thats the faimly tree of the ones im working on
[23:02] <Upu> thx mbales_
[23:02] <jededu> stripped http://imgur.com/lvBxY4H
[23:02] <Upu> that poor MAX :)
[23:02] <mbales_> haha
[23:02] <Upu> night
[23:02] <mbales_> its been de-soldered and resoldered several more times since the last pic
[23:02] <mbales_> keeps working though
[23:02] <mbales_> night!
[23:03] <Vaizki> jededu: it just keeps reminding me of a 90's mobile phone that needs a hug
[23:04] <jededu> Lol it does
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[23:05] <jededu> I wonder if I could put the ublox behind the pic
[23:06] <jededu> Would it cause problems?
[23:06] <mbales_> i havent had any issues running a ublox under an AVR
[23:06] <Jartza> anyway, if someone is interested in getting one of these "cheap-ass tag-connect alternatives", I can get rid of few of them :)
[23:07] <mbales_> jartza is there an eagle file for that board?
[23:07] <mbales_> or connector
[23:07] <mbales_> if so i may be interested
[23:07] <Jartza> yes
[23:07] <Jartza> or I can put them somewhere tomorrow
[23:08] <jededu> On this one it would work the PV stuff takes up the space on the other one
[23:08] <Jartza> there's eagle file for that "adapter board" and also eagle component for the pads on board.
[23:09] <Jartza> but I'm on bed already with ipad, too lazy to go to computer anymore today to put them online :)
[23:09] <mbales_> awesome, id be very interested in that. .1 headers are taking up too much room
[23:10] <Jartza> yeah, they are
[23:10] <mbales_> let me know when theyre up
[23:10] <Jartza> will do
[23:11] <mbales_> thank you, much prefer this to the TAG nonsense
[23:11] <Jartza> at least you're not tied to one specific company with this
[23:11] <mbales_> exactly
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[23:15] <Vaizki> Jartza: I'll take one ;)
[23:15] <Vaizki> there's a cup of coffee in it for you!
[23:15] <Jartza> Vaizki: check :)
[23:16] <Jartza> Vaizki: I'll start at Suunto 1st of march :) I'll drop by one day then :)
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[23:16] <Vaizki> suunto in tammisto?
[23:16] <Jartza> yes
[23:16] <Vaizki> oh ok cool
[23:16] <Vaizki> they need a bit of help...
[23:16] <Jartza> no more Hyvinkää anymore
[23:17] <Vaizki> I heard that they've been replacing quality with a replacement program
[23:17] <Jartza> ouch
[23:17] <Vaizki> not the way you want to go long term
[23:17] <Jartza> not really no
[23:17] <Jartza> fortunately they got us there ;)
[23:17] <Vaizki> yes I'm sure you'll transform the company
[23:19] <Jartza> sure, I start with discipline restoration meeting and implement leashes
[23:19] <Vaizki> just take the whole swing set
[23:19] <Jartza> good idea. I need to pack my impact drill with me then, too.
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[23:20] <Vaizki> I need to pack myself into bed now so..&
[23:21] <Jartza> me too :)
[23:21] <Jartza> so, night &
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[00:00] --- Fri Feb 13 2015