highaltitude.log.20150206

[00:00] <Vaizki> just a stupid q first, do I need a separate RF ground on the board or is it just one GND?
[00:01] <craag> Just one ground should be fine for this.
[00:01] <craag> Having slight ground planes in eagle gets messy
[00:01] <craag> *split
[00:01] <Vaizki> yea I noticed
[00:02] <Vaizki> ok I'll simplify the board quick and see if it works
[00:04] <craag> There are local gerber tools as well
[00:04] <craag> such as gerbv that gerblook uses behind the scenes
[00:04] <craag> if you try one of those it might give a more verbose error
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[00:08] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/vaizki-failboard.zip
[00:08] <Vaizki> brd sch and gerbers
[00:11] <Vaizki> and as said, it's my first board ever, so everything is just slapped on the schematic and routed as soon as I thought of stuff to put on there
[00:14] <Vaizki> and I already found a mistake
[00:14] <Vaizki> but shouldn't affect gerblook
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[00:18] <craag> Ok so your TXT file contains a bunch of stuff outside the board
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[00:20] <craag> And eagle throws a ton of errors opening your .brd
[00:21] <craag> what version of eagle are you using?
[00:22] <Vaizki> 7.2.0
[00:22] <Vaizki> I just started yesterday so that's what they had up :)
[00:22] <craag> ah ok, 6.5 here, that'll be why
[00:22] <craag> Try some other gerber job files
[00:23] <craag> I use dirtypcbs one a lot
[00:23] <Vaizki> what's in the txt file?
[00:23] <Vaizki> looks like drill marks or something?
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[00:24] <craag> yeah drill file
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[00:25] <Vaizki> will try the dirtypcbs
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[00:28] <Vaizki> ha now it's working better
[00:32] <Vaizki> gerbv still shows loads of drill holes outside board for some reason
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[00:32] <Vaizki> for some reason the board is now waaaay out to the right and bottom
[00:32] <Vaizki> gerblook made an image but it's a huge one
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[00:32] <Vaizki> and the drills are all off
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[00:36] <Vaizki> For users with Eagle 7.2 or higher, this is likely to occur if using a CAM job written for previous versions of Eagle.
[00:36] <Vaizki> osh park...
[00:36] <craag> oh yay
[00:36] <craag> can you get an older version of eagle?
[00:37] <Vaizki> ha!
[00:37] <Vaizki> changed drill type to EXCELLON_24
[00:37] <Vaizki> looks good
[00:38] <Vaizki> http://gerblook.org/pcb/PvtYaFZhSWe5QPaTJazfo4
[00:38] <Vaizki> I have no idea where the stripes come from
[00:39] <Vaizki> they are on both top and bottom copper pours
[00:39] <craag> they're gerbv artifacts
[00:39] <craag> you can ignore them
[00:39] <craag> what's the antenna stub near the edge of the board?
[00:40] <Vaizki> for SMA launch connector
[00:40] <Vaizki> work in progress, couldn't find the right part yet
[00:40] <craag> right.. why no ground underneath?
[00:40] <craag> ok
[00:41] <craag> are you using the ava lib?
[00:41] <Vaizki> there is ground, but also soldermask which needs to go away
[00:41] <Vaizki> I have that too
[00:41] <craag> looks good :)
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[00:42] <craag> I tend to do most of my tracks on the top for easier debugging
[00:43] <craag> also, you can round the corners to make the board prettier :)
[00:44] <Vaizki> I had them rounded
[00:44] <Vaizki> and mounting holes
[00:44] <Vaizki> I ripped it all out because it was failing the outline
[00:44] <craag> maybe you want your ftdi/gps headers nearer the edge of the board, and further from the other parts
[00:45] <craag> ah ok
[00:45] <craag> of course you were tracking everything in git so can just revert back right ;)
[00:45] <Vaizki> this is just educational
[00:46] <Vaizki> I didn't even do the schematic half way before laying board & routing
[00:46] <craag> cool, im just spewing thoughts
[00:46] <Vaizki> appreciated
[00:47] <craag> time for bed, gn!
[00:47] <Vaizki> same here
[00:47] <Vaizki> 3 am knocking..
[00:47] <Vaizki> 7 am wakeup :)
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[02:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AIRCOR-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-1
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[03:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD9ADV-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9ADV-11
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[05:36] <garymortimer> Morning all, has anybody repurposed an Open LRS system for high altitude balloon launches and display on space nearus?? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__27096__OrangeRx_Open_LRS_433MHz_9Ch_Receiver.html
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[06:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[06:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP7FLL/M_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP7FLL%2FM_chase
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[06:43] <Upu> hi garymortimer
[06:43] <Upu> not legal to fly in the UK
[06:43] <Upu> at 100mW anyway
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[06:59] <garymortimer> Thanks Upu could it not be turned down if correct firmware added? Just struck me it had what was needed in one board
[07:04] <Upu> data rate may be too high so the range will be poor
[07:04] <Upu> will chat more from work
[07:04] <Upu> RFM22 has been used to do RTTY @ 50 baud with sucess
[07:04] <Upu> afk
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[07:34] <Vaizki> Hobbyking has all kinds of wonderfully illegal stuff
[07:35] <Vaizki> Like 1W transmitters on 433MHz...
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[07:58] <UpuWork> so K6RPT-12 may hit the States later today
[07:58] <UpuWork> !ping K6RPT-12
[07:58] <SpacenearUS> 03UpuWork: Last contact with 03K6RPT-12 was 03a day ago
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[08:07] <Vaizki> upu, what would you recommend for breadboarding the lora module for testing?
[08:07] <Vaizki> or well not breadboarding but temporary hookup
[08:07] <UpuWork> wires on the pads ?
[08:07] <UpuWork> they have holes which work
[08:09] <Vaizki> hmmh yea I guess I could just do these 2 modules with wires and order more when I want to use them in a more permanent fixture
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[08:16] <Vaizki> hmm just realized my saleae logic analyzer has these very tiny test hooks on it, I could just try it with those
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[08:28] <fsphil> test hooks are brilliant things to have
[08:28] <fsphil> I got lots of them a while back, always useful
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[08:45] <Vaizki> fsphil, yea I need to put in an order for some
[08:46] <Vaizki> I have those bigger hook probes for DMM etc but only 2 extra hooks besides the saleae set
[08:46] <Vaizki> 2 extra small hooks that is
[08:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Car_chase
[08:52] <Vaizki> I'm going to name my chase vehicle 'Bullitt'
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[09:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03johan brand_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=johan%20brand_chase
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[10:38] <infaddict> hey guys. Friday at last ;-)
[10:38] <infaddict> I'm thinking whether I need some sort of clock/time to log with my data. I know once the GPS locks on it will get UTC time, but might be useful to have independant time. But arduino loses date/time upon power down.
[10:39] <infaddict> Is it usual to just keep a "flight time" starting at 0?
[10:39] <craag> There's also a 'counter' field
[10:39] <craag> which you can save to eeprom, and load from on boot.
[10:40] <craag> Or if you really want date/time. Use an RTC module.
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[10:41] <infaddict> thx craag. guessing i dont really need date/time, but just need elapsed time since I started up the board. i can simply note the date/time and then keep a incremental counter.
[10:41] <infaddict> its just so i can graph over time things like altitude, temperature etc
[10:42] <craag> Yep. Hopefully your payload won't have gps issues, in which case you can easily pull 'time','altitude','temperature' as a CSV out of habitat after the flight.
[10:42] <pc1pcl> if you log at a fixed interval, you can probably regenerate 'time' between gps fixes
[10:43] <infaddict> yep and doesnt have to be super accurate just for logging purposes
[10:43] <lz1dev> pc1pcl: if you have things like interrupts, chances are you are not doing it at fixed interval
[10:43] <infaddict> be nice to know e.g. how long it takes for average GPS lock on etc. if i have my own timer from the second i start it up that will help.
[10:43] <infaddict> i could also then program assumptions such as > 4 hour flight time = sommick wrong and do something
[10:44] <pc1pcl> just 'order' of the data solved could be enough. lz1dev: at least should be accurate enough for graphing purposes, unless you wnat the graph to be pixel perfect ;)
[10:45] <infaddict> i think perfect fixed intervals is challenging and not sure i need that. even for RTTY i am hoping normal interrupts are good enough.
[10:46] <infaddict> the clock/time i am referring to is purely for data logging
[10:46] <infaddict> also i am presuming habitat logs the date/time signals are sent to it?
[10:47] <craag> Yep it logs all the data in the rtty
[10:47] <craag> raw sentence as well
[10:48] <fsphil> as long as there is a flight doc anyway
[10:48] <craag> ^^ correct configured too ;)
[10:49] <craag> It'll do it for just a payload doc actually. But you really really should have a flight doc for your flight!
[10:49] <infaddict> but does it stamp its own date/time on the data received? or trusts the sentence within?
[10:49] <fsphil> both
[10:49] <infaddict> great
[10:49] <fsphil> though the export function only gives out the gps time iirc
[10:52] <Vaizki> I thought the ublox modules have rtc in them?
[10:52] <UpuWork> they do
[10:53] <infaddict> if so is that independant of GPS lock, just its own clock?
[10:53] <Vaizki> well I'd assume it's an independent clock that gets set by GPS
[10:53] <craag> (note: if fitted with a backup battery)
[10:53] <Vaizki> but if the GPS is not running, battery backup keeps it going
[10:53] <Vaizki> yea needs a coin cell
[10:53] <craag> and it will output a garbage date/time until it gets a lock the first time.
[10:55] <Vaizki> something like 1970?
[10:55] <craag> tbh I don't use the date, but the time starts counting from 00:00:00
[10:55] <infaddict> yer it would just be the timer i might need i think
[10:56] <x-f> mine starts counting from 23:59:56 or something
[10:56] <craag> The sometimes outputs some real weird ones just as it gets the lock
[10:56] <infaddict> as long as thats reliable and starts at 0 it would save me doing it. i guess it assumes i am not using any power off/save modes, which i am not at the moment.
[10:56] <craag> I just only trust it when it has a >=2D fix
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[10:58] <infaddict> ok i think i'll do my own rudimentary "flight elapsed time".
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[10:59] <Vaizki> ublox also has a TP output which I read to be time pulse
[10:59] <Vaizki> so you can generate an interrupt every second
[11:00] <infaddict> ok interesting. again depends if its sourcing that from satellite or not.
[11:00] <infaddict> or internal
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[11:00] <Vaizki> disclaimer; I have never used them, just got my loot from Upu yesterday
[11:01] <craag> The TP is configured by default to only pulse when it has a lock
[11:01] <craag> (people often use it for a lock indicator led)
[11:02] <craag> You could use the avr internal timer to increment an eeprom value
[11:02] <Vaizki> yea avr internal timers should be good enough
[11:02] <craag> Just don't go to town on it, the eeprom has limited read/write cycles.
[11:03] <craag> (once per second is fine)
[11:03] <infaddict> yer i think either a simple timer or interrupt. dont even need to write the result to perm storage, could just be a variable?
[11:03] <infaddict> i am logging to SD card anyway
[11:03] <craag> ah right, yeah sure then
[11:04] <infaddict> so maybe a flight time in seconds or something
[11:04] <craag> sounds good :)
[11:04] <craag> millis() is milliseconds since last boot
[11:04] <infaddict> ok could be useful. even an unsigned int would be big enough for 9 hours of flight.
[11:05] <XchatEvil> Who could possibly need more than 9 hours of flight.
[11:05] Action: craag looks at B-64.. ;)
[11:05] <craag> K6RPT
[11:05] <craag> PIE
[11:05] <craag> etc
[11:06] <craag> but it overflows at ~40 days iirc
[11:06] <craag> not a concern at all
[11:06] <infaddict> its enough for my up and down quickie! if its still lying unfound after 9 hours, i dont need the logging anymore ;-)
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[11:12] <daveake> Well, at least couple of trackers have been taken by members of the public in the last couple of years. In one case (Steve) the guy eventually tracked Steve down; in the other it was a toerag who fancied a free GoPro
[11:12] <Darkside> huh
[11:12] <daveake> He got tracked down via internet skillz and the police
[11:13] <Darkside> we had your deputy PM interview on an austrlian comedy show
[11:13] <Darkside> interviewd*
[11:13] <daveake> So a GPS track showing the route from landing to scrote's house might be useful evidence :)
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[11:16] <Darkside> nick clegg
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[11:17] <daveake> language
[11:17] <Darkside> lol
[11:17] <UpuWork> s/Deputy PM/irrelevant man
[11:17] <Darkside> hah ok
[11:17] <lz1dev> sounds like a superero
[11:17] <UpuWork> yours is giving us some laughs over here too
[11:18] <Darkside> yes
[11:18] <Darkside> he's a dickhead
[11:18] <Darkside> the guy interviewing him is disabled
[11:18] <Darkside> and he is giving nick clegg shit
[11:19] <infaddict> ah the last leg?
[11:19] <infaddict> that was on UK last week
[11:19] <Darkside> yes
[11:19] <Darkside> oh its broadcast in the UK?
[11:20] <infaddict> i thought nick clegg was alright on that. dont rate him as a politician tho!
[11:20] <infaddict> yes its a UK show. Oz host tho.
[11:20] <Darkside> the eurozone crisis in interpretive dance was interesting
[11:20] <Darkside> oh its a UK show?!
[11:20] <Darkside> wow
[11:20] <infaddict> yep filmed in London.
[11:20] <Darkside> wow
[11:20] <Darkside> not what i expected with adam hills
[11:21] <infaddict> i didnt know anything of him until that show started here
[11:21] <Darkside> he has a prosthetic foot
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[11:27] <Darkside> so yeah, we're about to have a leadership 'spill'
[11:27] <Darkside> which is going to be hillarious
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[12:44] Nick change: XchatEvil -> SpeedEvil__
[12:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase
[12:57] <infaddict> Dave are you still launching metro1 on Tuesday?
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[13:14] <daveake> yup
[13:14] <daveake> Might change but I doubt it
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[13:16] <craag> no lora on this one right?
[13:17] <daveake> no
[13:17] <daveake> Customer flight so just good old reliable stuff
[13:17] <craag> :)
[13:17] <daveake> Don't want to get myself destracted testing anything
[13:17] <daveake> s/e/i/
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[13:19] <Vaizki> I read "selfdestructed" .. need a bigger font..
[13:20] <lz1dev> ctrl+++
[13:20] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> Hi, can anybody help me? I need two buy two Habduino
[13:21] <Vaizki> 6x13 ftw
[13:21] <theRealSIbot1> In real units: 13 ft = 3.96 m
[13:21] <Vaizki> ehehe thx :)
[13:21] <lz1dev> ^top bots
[13:21] <craag> ROMULO_BENITEZ: What do you need?
[13:22] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> I need two buy two Habduino boards
[13:22] <daveake> Shop is http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=75&product_id=112
[13:22] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> But I don't know where i can buy them
[13:22] <craag> ah
[13:22] <craag> see ^^^
[13:26] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> mmm.... They are out of stock
[13:26] <craag> Ah so they are
[13:26] <craag> weird
[13:26] <craag> UpuWork: ?
[13:26] <craag> Says in stock, then in the cart gets marked with '***'
[13:26] <daveake> Pretty sure he has some
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> How do people mark/label their Micro SD cards ?
[13:28] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> Yes, in the cart the item gets marked with '***'
[13:29] <ROMULO_BENITEZ> I will try to contact the store
[13:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Stay here and he will be along after lunch probably !
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[13:53] <Vaizki> looking at the energizer L92 data sheet it seems like those never go under 1.2V until they're completely dead?
[13:53] <Vaizki> so it's safe to assume that 3xL92 is not going to drop below 3.6V until it's dead anyway?
[13:53] <daveake> Depends on temperature and load
[13:54] <Vaizki> temperature affects capactiy for sure but also voltage under load?
[13:55] <UpuWork> yo
[13:55] <UpuWork> sorry was soldering up Habduinos
[13:55] <UpuWork> replied to your mail ROMULO_BENITEZ
[13:55] <Vaizki> just in time manufacturing
[13:55] <daveake> Yes internal resistance increases as the temperature reduces
[13:56] <Vaizki> ok because on the first page of the datasheet there is a Discharge Profile without any mention of temperature
[13:56] <Vaizki> ah. gotcha. All data shown tested at 21°C unless otherwise stated.
[13:56] <daveake> "*All data shown tested at 21°C unless otherwise stated"
[13:57] <Vaizki> damn
[14:05] <amell> edmoore: do you remember a churchill rocket engine?
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[14:05] <amell> oh. hes not here
[14:06] <Vaizki> ublox is 2.7-3.6V, ntx2b is 2.9-15V, ds18b20 is 3.0-5.5V and 328p 1.8-5.5V so I could run a board at 8MHz off a 3V LDO?
[14:06] <Vaizki> hmm but ntx2b is apparently better supplied with 3.1V or higher.. so 3.3V is probably still best
[14:07] <daveake> You can run the NTX2B direct from the battery
[14:07] <Vaizki> yea I was just wondering that option as well
[14:07] <Vaizki> seems like NTX2B has it all inside
[14:07] <daveake> Anyway, why not add an AA ?
[14:07] <daveake> It'll help keep everything warm :)
[14:08] <BigJD> Im starting a HAB project and i am struggling with understand how the telecommunication part works, i have a yagi antenna and a transceiver on the ground but i am confused as to whether the radiosonde requires an antenna or the built in one in an NRX2 is enough?
[14:08] <Vaizki> it does require an antenna
[14:08] <daveake> NRX2 is a receiver not transmitter
[14:08] <BigJD> NTR*
[14:08] <daveake> and it useless for HAB anyway
[14:08] <Vaizki> and you don't need a transceiver on the ground, just a receiver
[14:08] <daveake> NTX2 does not have an internal antenna
[14:09] <daveake> So you need to add one - just a few pieces of wire
[14:09] <daveake> !wiki groundplane
[14:09] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: No results for your query
[14:09] <daveake> !wiki antenna
[14:09] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Found 034 results for you query - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/start?do=search&id=antenna
[14:09] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[14:10] <daveake> So in the payload you have an NTX2 and a 1/4-wave antenna as per that page
[14:10] <daveake> What transceiver do you have for receiving ?
[14:12] <BigJD> I head that an NRX on the ground is insufficient, so i am using a Yaesu FT-817
[14:12] <daveake> Nice
[14:12] <daveake> For chasing in a car, a magmount antenna is much more convenient than a Yagi
[14:12] <BigJD> is it the case that the NRX is not sensitive neough?
[14:13] <daveake> yes
[14:13] <daveake> Also it's an FM receiver and we need an SSB receiver
[14:13] <daveake> Sounds daft I know, as the transmitter is FM
[14:14] <daveake> However an SSB receiver converts the 2 UHF frequencies from the transmitted signal into 2 audio tones
[14:14] <daveake> which can then be decoded on a laptop using dl-fldigi
[14:14] <daveake> Something like this is good for the chase car http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnetic-mobile-dualband-2-m-70-cm-antenna-with-3-m-RG58-cable-SMA-Male-plug-/251787097940
[14:15] <BigJD> i was planning on using a stationary ground station
[14:15] <daveake> Fine
[14:15] <daveake> But you also need to chase it
[14:15] <daveake> You're unlikely to get a good enough final position if the payload lands 100 miles away from your base station
[14:16] <daveake> What country are you launching in ?
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[14:16] <BigJD> UK, the aim is to go to 6km, i want to map the ozone in the lower troposphere
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[14:17] <daveake> And you want to receover the payload?
[14:17] <edmoore> ozone layer is 20-30km
[14:18] <edmoore> oh sorry, the ozone in lower tropo
[14:18] <edmoore> apologies misread
[14:18] <BigJD> payload recovery would be done with a text message with co-ordinates
[14:20] <daveake> If it lands inside GSM coverage
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[14:22] <BigJD> If it was required to resend any information from the radiosonde that had not reached the ground station, would it be required to have a transceiver in the radiosonde rather than just a transmitter, also in this case, would a larger arial be required for the radiosonde to receive this. I have read a little into using a checksum...?
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[14:23] <Vaizki> just resend old data together with new data in a circular fashion?
[14:23] <Vaizki> in the comment field or something
[14:23] <craag> Easier just to log to sd card - at least for a first flight.
[14:24] <craag> Than playing with uplink.
[14:25] <infaddict> GSM backup is the last piece of my jigsaw. struggling to find an old phone with serial to do it that way, so looking at GSM break out boards (3.3V) but not much to choose from a pretty pricey too.
[14:26] <daveake> Remember that either of those options rely on your flight computer still working, so they're a radio backup not a tracker backup
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[14:27] <infaddict> indeed. if flight computer goes belly up i am in a whole lot of trouble. unless my GSM solution is standalone like old android phone with App.
[14:27] <infaddict> even then 50% chance of not working or no coverage
[14:27] <Vaizki> how about smoke grenade backup
[14:27] <Vaizki> last mile solution
[14:28] <infaddict> lol
[14:28] <infaddict> flare?
[14:28] <Vaizki> yea nothing like burning a whole forest down
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[14:39] <infaddict> guys, remind me... the "shift" in RTTY tx is difference between low and high (space and mark) right?
[14:39] <Babs____> Ping Upu re: your ublox breakout board
[14:39] <UpuWork> yo
[14:39] <daveake> infaddict, Yes
[14:40] <Babs____> Hi mate - The capacitor connected to your ublox , in the schematic I can't see a value, do you know what value it is off the top of your head?
[14:40] <Babs____> Ps all stuff arrived safely
[14:40] <UpuWork> 100nF
[14:40] <UpuWork> cool
[14:40] <infaddict> thx dave - is there a preferred value (170hz seemed to be historic) and does it really matter much
[14:40] <UpuWork> just a decoupling cap
[14:41] <edmoore> this is a good standard decoupling capacitor value for most digital ICs
[14:41] <edmoore> for future ref
[14:41] <edmoore> often in schematics put does as 0u1
[14:41] <edmoore> i.e. 0.1uF
[14:41] <edmoore> put down as*
[14:42] <Babs____> Ok great - thanks both
[14:42] <edmoore> electronics generally does that
[14:42] <edmoore> 5R1 = 5.1 ohms
[14:42] <UpuWork> yeah 0.1µF
[14:42] <Babs____> Now for a Friday night doing my first ublox hand solder
[14:42] <edmoore> 4k7 = 4700 ohms
[14:42] <edmoore> etc
[14:42] <UpuWork> Tips
[14:42] <UpuWork> Babs____
[14:42] <UpuWork> 1 sec
[14:42] <Babs____> That solves the 3v3 questions then....
[14:42] <edmoore> yep
[14:43] <edmoore> just an electronics convention for some reason
[14:43] <Babs____> You science guys are worse than accountants
[14:43] <UpuWork> ok
[14:43] <Babs____> Operating profit, profit, EBIT, net profit
[14:43] <Babs____> Etc
[14:43] <infaddict> Babs, good luck.
[14:43] Action: daveake waits for inflation pun
[14:43] <UpuWork> so general practice is solder the GND pins first
[14:43] <gonzo_> though it becomes a problem when people used to refer to the year as 2k7
[14:43] <UpuWork> however don't
[14:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Argh latch mechanism on the SD card on the RPi board has failed :-( Anybody fixed one ?
[14:43] <UpuWork> solder one of the middle pins first
[14:43] <mattbrejza> just wait until you get onto 'saturation' and 'active region' in the context of BJTs and FETs
[14:43] <gonzo_> so we have jumped a few centuaries for engineers!
[14:44] <UpuWork> make sure its lined up and then solder the opposite middle pin
[14:44] <UpuWork> then work around the rest
[14:44] <Babs____> Wedge tip upu?
[14:44] <UpuWork> the GND pin next to the RF connector needs the most heat
[14:44] <UpuWork> conical and feed the solder in
[14:44] <UpuWork> you'll see it suck up
[14:44] <UpuWork> into the castelations on the ublox
[14:44] <edmoore> lovely word that
[14:44] <Babs____> Conical being pointed?
[14:45] <daveake> like a cone
[14:45] <Babs____> Cryptic
[14:45] <Babs____> ;-)
[14:45] <daveake> :)
[14:45] <daveake> ^
[14:45] <daveake> / \
[14:45] <daveake> alignment fail
[14:45] <edmoore> also in general finer tips are often not as useful as you think
[14:45] <UpuWork> +!
[14:45] <UpuWork> +1
[14:45] <edmoore> a broader tip is a bit better for thermal mass and heat transfer
[14:46] <UpuWork> do yuou want some possibly knackered Ublox to test with ?
[14:46] <daveake> +2
[14:46] <edmoore> i try and use the fattest tip i can get away with for a job
[14:46] <Babs____> No way - there's not enough pressure experimenting on something you can lose
[14:46] <daveake> It's surprising just how fat a tip you can get away with
[14:46] <UpuWork> lol
[14:46] <UpuWork> I like your style
[14:47] <UpuWork> and use flux it helps
[14:47] <UpuWork> they are pretty bomb proof anyway
[14:47] <UpuWork> unless your name is "Adam"
[14:47] <Babs____> Cutting the last bit of this was real pressure http://flic.kr/p/8Ce9sJ
[14:47] <UpuWork> not the one currently on here
[14:48] <Babs____> 497 cuts into mounting board, no errors and by the end I couldn't feel my finger tip from scalpel pressure
[14:48] <Babs____> Yet one wrong move and it was all wasted
[14:48] <Babs____> *would have been
[14:48] <mattbrejza> laser cutter next time? ;)
[14:48] <Babs____> Not enough pressure
[14:48] <infaddict> i'm new to soldering and really not looking forward to my first "real" go at some of these small joints. probably not small to your guys but to me they are ;-)
[14:49] <Babs____> Nit enoygh achievment when finished
[14:49] <infaddict> practicing on cheap protoboard and cheap caps for now
[14:49] <Babs____> But more significantly, didnt knkw what a laser cutter was at that point
[14:50] <UpuWork> right well good luck Babs____
[14:50] <UpuWork> afk soldering
[14:51] <UpuWork> remember
[14:51] <UpuWork> if it looks like this afterwards : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0448.JPG
[14:51] <UpuWork> you didn't get it right
[14:52] <Babs____> Arf
[14:53] <Babs____> Basically on my self designed breakout board, all i need is the ublox and a capacitor tonconnect it up assumjng 3v3 power comjng in right?
[14:53] <Babs____> (My board just breaks out the pins to headers)
[14:53] <Babs____> All 22 of them
[14:53] <infaddict> if using i2c you might need pull ups
[14:54] <Babs____> I laugh in the face of i2c
[14:54] <infaddict> ha!
[14:54] <mattbrejza> your antenna side might need some consideration
[14:54] <Babs____> (Just going through the hardware uart )
[14:55] <Babs____> Arf. I just meant connecting it to the microcont
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[14:58] <infaddict> is there a recommendation for RTTY shift value?
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[15:03] <mattbrejza> a multiple of the baud rate
[15:05] <infaddict> thx matt, so at 50 baud i have a lot of choice
[15:06] <craag> ~350 is common
[15:06] <infaddict> ok, looks like habitab lets you specify any value and the software should cope with it. but will aim for close to 350 in my coding.
[15:10] <infaddict> so 350hz shift is around 0.175V shift on the NTX2B
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[15:41] <gonzo_> preferably twice the baudrate (or more)
[15:42] <gonzo_> it does not have to be an exact multiple of the baudrate
[15:46] <UpuWork> Meh babs went
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[16:04] <infaddict> probably soldering
[16:07] <UpuWork> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHj63XXjddM&list=UUGkq3Q2JQhN_ChjcPPwAW3A
[16:07] <UpuWork> quite hard with a camera in the way
[16:09] <amell> what is that pen you wiped on the pads?
[16:09] <UpuWork> just a solder flux pen
[16:09] <infaddict> geez that is fine work there.
[16:09] <amell> not seen one of those pens before
[16:09] <infaddict> i am worried about the normal connections on that PCB which look huge
[16:10] <infaddict> yer i have invested in a flux pen. not sure you need it except for fine work and drag soldering.
[16:11] <infaddict> thats a really useful vid Upu. More solder being added than I'd imagine.
[16:11] <UpuWork> too much really I kept jumping two pads at once
[16:11] <UpuWork> phone was in the way
[16:12] <UpuWork> also that was a ublox I'd removed from a faulty board
[16:13] <infaddict> do u use temp controlled iron?
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[16:14] <UpuWork> its a metcal
[16:15] <UpuWork> http://www.okinternational.com/hand-soldering-systems/id-MX-5220/Ultra_Fine_Soldering_and_Rework_System
[16:15] <UpuWork> one of those
[16:16] <infaddict> nice
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[16:21] <infaddict> just watching some of your other vids, some nice clips in there.
[16:21] <infaddict> and some very windy launches/tracking haha
[16:30] <UpuWork> oh yeah
[16:30] <UpuWork> was that the one where it snagged on a tree and I sliced the cord super quick
[16:31] <daveake> I just realised something. Every time UpuWork helps me launch, it's windy
[16:31] <UpuWork> haha
[16:31] <daveake> hmmmm
[16:32] <UpuWork> that was damn windy
[16:32] <UpuWork> ground sheet is nearly taking off
[16:33] <UpuWork> yeah that was the one where we tried Steve's windy launch technique but the cord fouled and jammed
[16:33] <daveake> yup
[16:33] <UpuWork> what you don't see me is off screen doing my best Crocodile Dundee impression with a knife
[16:35] <infaddict> yep thats the vid i was watching where the cord jammed. blinking windy that day.
[16:35] <infaddict> how far away did the balloon land?!
[16:35] <daveake> not far
[16:36] <infaddict> was that the plan?
[16:36] <daveake> There was a plan ?
[16:37] <infaddict> ha
[16:37] <daveake> The plan was to get the bear to jump from the capsule
[16:37] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1362
[16:41] <infaddict> great blog! enjoyed reading that
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[16:42] <daveake> The re-run was *much* easier
[16:44] <infaddict> can somebody help me understand PWM frequencies? Is that purely to allow longer timing to work? So bigger the divisor the lower the frequency.
[16:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
[16:48] <pc1pcl> http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SecretsOfArduinoPWM
[16:49] <UpuWork> ook
[16:49] <UpuWork> yay it made it :)
[16:49] <pc1pcl> looks like it did yes.
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[16:51] <infaddict> thx pc1pc1 i've read so many articles my head is spinning. so all those different PWM modes (fast, phase correct, fast with OCRA top)... is standard fast PWM what we use for RTTY
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[16:53] <infaddict> i think i was confusing PWM frequency with being something to do with the shift. if i've understood correctly, the frequency merely controls the timing of the high/low, whereas shift controls the spacing or difference between high/low?
[16:54] <daveake> OK, PWM approximates an analog signal
[16:54] <daveake> So if it spends half its time at 3.3V and half at 0V, that's an average of 1.65V
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[16:55] <daveake> So to set a particular voltage, you change the ratio between how long it spends at 3.3 and how long at 0
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[16:56] <daveake> So what's it generating is a square wave, with a "duty cycle" (ratio of high to low)
[16:56] <daveake> and you can set (within limits) the frequency of that square wave and the duty cycle
[16:56] <pc1pcl> of course, if you stay at 3v3 for half a second, then drop to 0 for half a second, you don't get 1v65 for 1 second..
[16:57] <daveake> You want that frequency to be much higher than the frequency of your data signal (50 baud)
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[16:58] <infaddict> ok i see
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[16:58] <infaddict> so the high and low are generally always 3.3 and 0, or can that vary too? thats what was confusing me (ie. the vertical on the graph, not the horizontal duty cycle)
[16:59] <daveake> sorry gotta go someone else can finish off :)
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[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The PWM signal itself is a square wave from the I/O pin
[17:00] <pc1pcl> depending on the voltage for '1' and '0' on the pin
[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> so the Max and min voltages
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[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> that can be generated are the limits of the devices I/O
[17:00] <infaddict> ok perfect thx
[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> either 3.3v or 5v or close to 0
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[17:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> to get the mx voltage then a very high Mar space ratio 100:1 and for the minimum a very low ratio 1:100
[17:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> bu the overall frequency of the pulses should be a LOT higher than the max
[17:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you want to generate as an analog signal.
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[17:03] <pc1pcl> of course you could switch 'something else' with the io pin to get different voltages too, maybe 'real' values, but te idea is that this is good enough and saves the extra circuitry.
[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> normally at least 100 times I would suggest so 1Khz analog signal (sinewave) you might want to use 100KHz PWM
[17:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> worst case would be generating an analog square wave as the rising edge will be the filtered result of the PWM signal at best
[17:04] <pc1pcl> basically you want to switch between high and low voltage so fast that the transmitter can't keep up and sticks at the 'average' instead of going from full on to full off in time with your i/opin
[17:07] <infaddict> thx guys just digesting the above and making notes ;-)
[17:08] <pc1pcl> bit like playing a game where you can only flap your dragon's wings and go up quickly or not flap and start going down. do it at the right frequency and you can fly more or less at a fixed height.
[17:08] <infaddict> nice analogy!
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[17:24] <HABjord> Hi all, has anyone here had experience buying the hwoyee balloons?
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[17:25] <HABjord> My friend has bought balloons before and they come in the protective foil wrapping, mine has not i was just wondering if this is the norm or a packaging issue
[17:36] <Upu> is it a small one ?
[17:36] <Upu> the larger ones generally come in a plastic bag and box
[17:40] <HABjord> it was a 500g , i just wanted to clarify it was the normal proceedure :)
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[17:42] <Upu> where did you get it from ?
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[18:15] <Mark_B> Evening
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[19:27] <arko> http://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=6&qm=1_day&f=K6RPT-12
[19:27] <arko> WOWOW
[19:27] <arko> that's amazing
[19:27] <arko> is K6RPT in here?
[19:29] <lz1dev> it was launched from LA
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[19:30] <arko> that's amazing...
[19:30] <arko> who's payload? any details?
[19:30] <arko> lz1dev: sure its not from SF?
[19:31] <adamgreig> it's CNSP?
[19:31] <arko> ah
[19:31] <arko> yas
[19:31] <arko> yes*
[19:31] <arko> lz1dev: launched from San Jose, CA
[19:31] <arko> far from LA :)
[19:31] <lz1dev> either LA on SF
[19:31] <fsphil> just down the road
[19:32] <adamgreig> lol they're basically the same place right
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL> San Jose is near SF :-)
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[19:32] <lz1dev> adamgreig: west coast
[19:33] <arko> its like saying London is near Glasgow
[19:33] <arko> :P
[19:33] <adamgreig> yes having driven between them recently I am somewhat aware :P
[19:33] <arko> hahaha
[19:33] <arko> i know :P
[19:33] <arko> man
[19:34] <arko> i cant believe it, what a fantastic flight
[19:37] <Upu> hey Dan-K2VOL
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> Hey upu!
[19:39] <Upu> long time no see on here :)
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I keep forgetting that I now live 10 miles from K6RPT and I need to go meet up sometime!
[19:39] <Upu> yeah he's quite quiet about the stuff he's doing
[19:39] <Upu> but I think this is a custom envelope
[19:40] <Upu> using one of Aadamson's trackers
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[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL> the tracker is looking great
[19:42] <arko> its no B tracker though
[19:43] <arko> :P im bias
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[19:45] <arko> oh hey its Dan-K2VOL
[19:45] <arko> another californian! :)
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[19:46] <fsphil> it really is an ideal launch spot. all that land to the east
[19:46] <fsphil> not including the mountains though. and the bears. and deserts. snakes. guns. hmmm
[19:46] <arko> sadly the airspace in los angeles wacky
[19:47] <arko> and mountains yes
[19:47] <arko> im more afraid of mountains than bears, snakes and guns
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[19:47] <fsphil> yea they seem more like proper mountains than the big hills I have
[19:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Hey arko :-)
[19:49] <arko> how goes it?
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[19:50] <arko> I've been missing the youtube loon updates, haven't seen any in a while!
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL> It's going well, busy with the big balloons as usual, but I hope to do at least a little personal balloon stuff this year :-)
[19:50] <arko> nice!
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh? I think there's been some good magazine articles recently on Loon though
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[19:51] <arko> oh neat
[19:51] <arko> i'll have to google it, heh
[19:52] <arko> i'm curious to see your version of a pico floater
[19:52] <arko> i can't wait to actually build my own balloons this June
[19:52] <arko> day after my graduation, i have "build balloons to go around the world" scheduled on my google cal
[19:52] <fsphil> it'll be a weird feeling going back to a normal sized balloon
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[19:53] <adamgreig> haha ace
[19:53] <adamgreig> you graduate this year right?
[19:53] <arko> YES
[19:54] <arko> finally :)
[19:54] <adamgreig> :D
[19:55] <arko> note to self if there is a second life, dont work full time and uni part time
[19:56] <Reb-SM0ULC> arko: degree?
[19:56] <arko> EE
[19:56] <arko> with emphasis in control sys
[19:57] <Reb-SM0ULC> electric engineering?
[19:57] <arko> yes
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[19:58] <Reb-SM0ULC> cool
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[20:15] <fsphil> bertrik needs better internet
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[20:20] <Upu> evening Babs
[20:20] <Upu> how did it go ?
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[21:25] <infaddict> anybody ever used a SIM900 unit for GSM stuff?
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> infaddict, only for about an hour
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> on an arduino shield
[21:29] <infaddict> just looking for gsm modules to use in a 3.3v arduino solution
[21:31] <infaddict> most modules appear to be 5V
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[21:32] <infaddict> this is one I've found: http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=5407
[21:33] <Vaizki> ok testing the ntx2b for the first time.. this just works.
[21:38] <fsphil> nice one
[21:39] <Vaizki> I'm just manually keying on a breadboard now but clearly seeing the transitions of the carrier in the waterfall
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[21:39] <infaddict> great! what you receiving with?
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[22:13] <Vaizki> airspy + sdr# + dl-fldigi
[22:17] <Vaizki> maybe I'll hook it up to an arduino next to just see some transmission
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[22:26] <infaddict> Vaizki have u got a backup radio solution planned?
[22:26] <Vaizki> no not yet
[22:26] <Vaizki> getting to know the pieces
[22:26] <infaddict> mmm thats the bit i'm struggling with whilst i wait for parts to arrive. i need a 3.3v solution ideally. unless i power it standalone from another battery.
[22:27] <tweetBot1> @daveake: Homing HAB !! With a bit of care over timing and balloon burst, this could happen on Tuesday ... #UKHAS http://t.co/3UEYH3tm43
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[22:31] <Vaizki> hahaaaa it works
[22:32] <Vaizki> I have RTTY transmission from arduino->ntx2b->airspy->sdr#->dl-fldigi
[22:33] <Vaizki> 725 shift because of the resistors I had at hand
[22:33] <Vaizki> but it works beutifully
[22:33] <blakangel> neat
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[22:35] <Vaizki> I guess with PWM I could just set the shift in software
[22:35] <Vaizki> but this is a win for a first hack at it
[22:36] <edmoore> excellent stuff Vaizki
[22:36] <edmoore> a winning friday eve
[22:38] <Vaizki> maybe one more hack at it to put it under timer + interrupt control instead of fixed delay loop
[22:39] <arko> remember to commit code before venturing :)
[22:39] <arko> nothing sucks more than "crap, this was working a minute ago"
[22:40] <edmoore> :earlier 1m
[22:40] <edmoore> vim always has you covered
[22:40] <Vaizki> more like git
[22:40] <Vaizki> but this is just screwing around :)
[22:40] <edmoore> not if you forget to commit
[22:41] <edmoore> but vim always has you covered
[22:41] <edmoore> vim is your wingman
[22:41] <arko> vim gets you all the ladies
[22:41] <arko> * it really doesnt
[22:41] <adamgreig> edmoore: have you seen gundo?
[22:41] <adamgreig> it gives you a tree of your undo+redos
[22:41] <arko> http://xkcd.com/1296/
[22:41] <adamgreig> which you can nav to see diffs per-undo, diff-to-current, etc
[22:41] <edmoore> yes
[22:42] <edmoore> i had it for a bit
[22:42] <adamgreig> i use it way less than I might imagine
[22:42] <adamgreig> cuz just :earlier (or tbh holding down 'u' like some rank amateur) is easier
[22:42] <edmoore> but i'm light on plugins now as i miss them on remote machines
[22:42] <adamgreig> hmm
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[22:42] <adamgreig> this is why I just have a dotvim git repo that can set them up super easily anywhere
[22:42] <edmoore> although i know vim ssh:blah works
[22:42] <adamgreig> i recommend vundle
[22:43] <adamgreig> check it out: https://github.com/adamgreig/dotvim/blob/master/vimrc#L19-L28
[22:43] <adamgreig> you just put "Plugin 'adamgreig/my_sexy_vim_plugin'" in your vimrc
[22:43] <adamgreig> or like Plugin 'scrooloose/syntastic'
[22:43] <adamgreig> and then you run vim +PluginInstall and it downloads them and sets them up for you, so all you need to sync is your vimrc between machines
[22:44] <edmoore> nice
[22:44] <edmoore> v nice
[22:44] <edmoore> noted down
[22:44] <adamgreig> it's a lot nicer than my old system of submodules in git
[22:44] <adamgreig> (syntastic is _amazing_ if you don't have it already btw)
[22:44] <adamgreig> (best vim plugin)
[22:44] <adamgreig> and vim-pandoc and vim-pandoc-syntax if you ever write markdown in vim is the other best thing
[22:45] <adamgreig> essentially renders your markdown (except on the cursor line) in vim. among other nicities
[22:45] <adamgreig> (including latex)
[22:45] <edmoore> screenshot?
[22:46] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/vim-pandoc.png
[22:47] <adamgreig> ^ is the latex rendering, doesn't really give an idea of the markdown rendering but it's nice too, bullet lists and section headers and highlighting for source code bits and stuff
[22:48] <edmoore> nice
[22:48] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/vim-pandoc-2.png
[22:48] <adamgreig> note sections have the weird S thing, bullet points, syntax highlighting, spellcheck
[22:48] <adamgreig> spellcheck has noticed DanielRichman misspelling allocation in that readme ;)
[22:48] <arko> woah thats cool
[22:49] <adamgreig> twice, in two different ways, within a few lines, haha
[22:49] <DanielRichman> >_>
[22:49] <DanielRichman> nothingtoseehere
[22:49] <adamgreig> but as soon as your cursor is on that line, it undoes the special magic, and just shows the ascii
[22:49] <adamgreig> so it doesn't ever.. get in the way. just makes life nicer
[22:49] <DanielRichman> ah those are typos, not misspellings
[22:50] <adamgreig> well yes :P
[22:50] <edmoore> all noted
[22:50] <adamgreig> edmoore: syntastic is better though
[22:50] <edmoore> might play tomorrow
[22:50] <edmoore> for now, off
[22:50] <edmoore> ttfn
[22:50] <adamgreig> seeya
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[22:50] <adamgreig> DanielRichman: btw I found out that syntastic with my config on OS X renders the emojis as full colour graphics
[22:50] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/sadface.png
[22:50] <adamgreig> so like, that, but with the colourful yellow emojis,
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[22:50] <DanielRichman> lol
[22:52] <Vaizki> hmmh ok it works with interrupts too
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[22:57] <Babs_> boom. http://i.imgur.com/mO8zEM1.png
[22:57] <Babs_> thanks for the vid Upu, worked a dream
[22:57] <Upu> nops
[22:57] <Upu> glad you got it working
[22:57] <Babs_> only c0cked up the top right, but as they are both power pins it didn't matter
[22:58] <Babs_> cheers
[22:58] <Upu> decoupling cap needs to be as near to the thing that you're decouping as possible
[22:58] <Upu> *or actually present :)
[22:58] <Babs_> will be on my pcb
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[23:03] <Vaizki> ok now I have radio enable and everything working
[23:04] <Vaizki> my test starts ntx2b for 5 seconds, transmits at 50 baud and at the end stays on for 2 more seconds
[23:04] <Vaizki> then pauses for 10 secs
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[23:25] <Vaizki> works up to 1200baud just fine
[23:26] <Vaizki> somehow I don't think > 1200 baud is even feasible, on VHF.. :)
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[23:31] <tweetBot1> @rsstab: @daveake #UKHAS that isn't too far from me... best buy a crash helmet!
[23:31] <Flerb> Hello
[23:31] <Vaizki> hullo
[23:32] <Vaizki> is it bad form to leave beacon on which broadcasts my email address with a note saying to email me if you see the message? :)
[23:34] <Vaizki> anyway, happy to see this working, now it's sleep time
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 7 2015