highaltitude.log.20150128

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[02:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9SGV_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=KC9SGV_chase
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[03:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-32 after 039 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PS-32
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[09:40] <infaddict> any advice for an onboard camera for first flight? a cheap canon with CHDK hack seems an option - self powered, available 2nd hand but a bit heavy. or is a microprocessor controller add on a better option.
[09:41] <Darkside> canon with CHDK is best still camera optio nfor firs tflight
[09:41] <Darkside> for good quality pictures
[09:41] <Darkside> other option is of course a gopro
[09:41] <Darkside> others have flown serial JPEG cameras, pi-cams, etc
[09:41] <infaddict> mmm i'd love to try GoPro but risk vs reward of me never seeing it again
[09:41] <Darkside> sure
[09:41] <Darkside> test your tracking systems well :-)
[09:42] <infaddict> yep!
[09:42] <infaddict> how do people "expose" their camera lense to the outside world? clearly some sort of aperture in the payload box is needed but how do you prevent misting?
[09:43] <Darkside> dont use an aperture
[09:43] <Darkside> just push it through the box
[09:43] <Darkside> they will survive the cold just fine
[09:43] <fsphil> hole in the side is good enough
[09:43] <Darkside> misting is a big problem if you seal up the payload
[09:43] <Darkside> people have tried various methods of avoiding it
[09:43] <Darkside> but the best is to just not seal it
[09:44] <infaddict> ok, so a hole in the payload directly exposing camera lense to outside world right? and live with the insulation/cold worries that brings.
[09:44] <Darkside> yp
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[09:44] <infaddict> ok thx guys
[09:44] <infaddict> does this canon hack just do pics or can it do combination of pics/vids at different intervals i wonder
[09:44] <infaddict> would be nice to get some video
[09:45] <infaddict> i'll read up on the wiki page
[09:45] <Darkside> with CHDK probably possible to do both
[09:45] <Darkside> if the camera supports video
[09:45] <Darkside> but im not sure
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[09:46] <infaddict> yer ive seen most people set to to take regular pictures (e.g. every minute or so)
[09:46] <infaddict> right, next stop ebay for a compatible and hopefully light weight 2nd hand canon
[09:47] <craag> If you can get one that takes AAs, you can put the lithium energizers in it and forget about battery temperature issues.
[09:49] <infaddict> yep exactly, thats the plan if i can find one.
[09:49] <infaddict> easy to test that in a freeze too i guess.
[09:50] <infaddict> although might need a light source in the freezer to prove pictures are working lol
[09:50] <craag> I did a room vs freezer test with my canon with a Li-ion battery
[09:50] <craag> 4h49m vs 34m
[09:50] <craag> And the internal temp was only recording about -8 when it switched off
[09:51] <infaddict> wow
[09:51] <UpuWork> Seventeen online hiding under another nick ?
[09:52] <infaddict> craag: did u do similar test with enegizers?
[09:53] <craag> infaddict: Mine won't take energizers. You can see how temperature affects those though from the datasheet
[09:54] <craag> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[09:54] <craag> Bottom right graph of first page
[09:54] <infaddict> yep seems decent low temp performance
[09:54] <craag> They're one of the best
[09:54] <infaddict> hopefully the camera will stand up to it too
[09:54] <craag> Hence why we use them :)
[09:56] <daveake> Yeah with Li-Ion keep them insulated, and close to something generating heat. Such as a camera :)
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[10:01] <infaddict> i presume we simply ignore the 0 degrees min operating temperature on camera spec sheets ;-)
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[10:03] <infaddict> right i can get a powershot 1000 for £6 delivered which takes 2xAA and it hack compatible. weighs 155g without batteries.
[10:03] <craag> That is probably continuous 0 degrees at sea level air pressure and rated for wind cooling too.
[10:04] <craag> Sounds like a deal
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[10:04] <infaddict> yep worth a shot i think
[10:05] <craag> powershot 1000?
[10:05] <craag> I've got the SD1000 which is the only one that turns up on google
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[10:06] <infaddict> sry yer powershot A1000
[10:06] <craag> oh nice
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[10:06] <infaddict> lots of powershots on auction sites. A1000, A590, SX130
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[10:08] <daveake> Cheapest I see on ebay is £8 but that's still very good
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[10:20] <li4m0> Ping Upu ....do you still have any rfm22b ' s about
[10:20] <UpuWork> hi li4m0
[10:20] <UpuWork> nope
[10:20] <UpuWork> er 1 sec
[10:22] <craag> is there a reason not to use the rfm69?
[10:22] <UpuWork> nope sorry
[10:22] <UpuWork> don't use them they are rubbish anyway
[10:22] <daveake> Er I have 4 spare they are wonderful :)
[10:22] <UpuWork> lol
[10:22] <UpuWork> fine for space
[10:23] <UpuWork> not so good in the more demanding enviroment of "earth"
[10:23] <daveake> $200sat ok; $50hab fail
[10:24] <craag> s/fine/fine-with-many-many-resets/
[10:24] <li4m0> Ha ok no worries
[10:40] <SA6BSS> I buy rfm22b here http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20150128024001&SearchText=rfm22b
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[10:46] <li4m0> Thanks I usually use Aliexpress just not when I want something quickly :-)
[10:49] <SA6BSS> no, fast they are no :)
[10:49] <SA6BSS> *not
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[10:55] <infaddict> question on voltage and regulation. i previously thought of putting a 3.3V regulator chip (with 1uF caps either side) into my circuit. However, reading the Arduino pro mini specs it says it contains a voltage regulator already...
[10:56] <infaddict> so do i really need my own regulator?
[10:56] <Reb-SM0U1C> hello all!
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[10:59] <craag> infaddict: The regulator on the arduino boards often can't supply much current
[10:59] <craag> Have a look at the schematic to get the regulator part number, then look up the datasheet for it
[11:00] <cm13g09> morning craag
[11:01] <craag> good morning cm13g09
[11:01] <craag> how are things?
[11:01] <infaddict> ok thx craag i will do just that
[11:04] <infaddict> looks like a MIC5205 with 150mA max output
[11:04] <craag> Ok that's not bad (check against your calculated total current draw)
[11:04] <craag> The other thing to check is dropout voltage
[11:05] <craag> which is how much extra voltage it needs at the input, to achieve the correct output.
[11:05] <infaddict> yep will check that. i am supplying 4.5v so quite a bit of room. cheers.
[11:06] <craag> with 3x AA?
[11:06] <infaddict> yes. my estimate is 100mAh worse case (everything under load)
[11:06] <craag> remember they will discharge below 1.5V per cell during the flight
[11:07] <infaddict> mmm
[11:08] <daveake> Tae a look at the discharge curves
[11:08] <craag> energizer datasheets are great
[11:08] <daveake> Voltage depends on time, load and temperature
[11:08] <daveake> I'd go with 4
[11:11] <infaddict> so am i reading that datasheet correctly, that at -20 deg, after 1 hours performance the voltage drops to 0.8V ?
[11:12] <daveake> At 250mA
[11:12] <infaddict> yep sure, i will be less than that
[11:12] <daveake> 60mA or so is more typical
[11:12] <daveake> and -20C isn't typical either :)
[11:13] <infaddict> i can certainly go with 4 AA (6V)
[11:14] <daveake> Remember that some LDOs are rated for 6V max Vin, and these cells start at just over 1.8V
[11:16] <infaddict> sry daveake, whats a LDO? still learning ;-)
[11:16] <daveake> Low Drop Out
[11:16] <daveake> voltage regulator
[11:17] <daveake> Some regulators will drop out (i.e. fail to regulate the output voltage) when Vin drops to within about 2V of the target Vout
[11:17] <daveake> e.g. a 5V regulator may need at least 7V Vin
[11:18] <daveake> One way of looking at it is this: if yo use a regulator with a dropout of 2V, instead of one with a dropout of 0.5V, you need to add an extra cell just to keep Vin high enough
[11:19] <infaddict> ok thanks. and this drop out should be quoted on the datasheet right?
[11:19] <daveake> Yup
[11:19] <daveake> and it depends on temeperature and load
[11:19] <daveake> but it'll be there
[11:19] <infaddict> The MIC5205 is an efficient linear voltage regulator with
[11:19] <infaddict> ultra low-noise output, very low dropout voltage (typically
[11:19] <infaddict> 17mV at light loads and 165mV at 150mA),
[11:19] <infaddict> ^^^ thats the regulator on my adrduino
[11:20] <daveake> Yes that's a good one
[11:20] <daveake> In some cases a datasheet will say "LDO" but the dropout is over a volt
[11:20] <daveake> which fails my personal definition of LDO
[11:20] <infaddict> ha yes. so 165mV is pretty good.
[11:21] <daveake> very
[11:21] <infaddict> in that case i may simply supply into the unregulated power input to arduino (will accept up to 20V) and let it do the regulation.
[11:21] <daveake> yup
[11:22] <infaddict> great saves me work. at least i now know the rough theory should i build my own PCB with a 328 chip, where i'd need to do this myself.
[11:22] <daveake> It's unlikely to be a problem here, but there's another factor which is the power dissipation of the regulator
[11:22] <daveake> So even if the data sheet says Vin max of 20V, and say IMax of 500mA, that doesn't mean you can do both at the same time
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[11:23] <daveake> Well you could, briefly :p
[11:23] <daveake> It'll dissipate power, of (Vout-Vin) * I, which in turn could make it too hot to survive
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[11:25] <seventeen> * reads logs
[11:25] <daveake> seventten: UpuWork was after you earlier
[11:26] <seventeen> that ^^
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[11:29] <UpuWork> lol
[11:29] <UpuWork> you win lurking
[11:30] <seventeen> Always watching. shame about the winds.
[11:31] <UpuWork> pm seventeen
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[11:38] <cm13g09> craag: apologies - phones going crazy
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[11:40] <craag> np
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[11:46] Action: cm13g09 ponders if the SSE engineer will *actually* turn up
[11:47] <craag> "Service cancelled due to inclement weather"
[11:47] <cm13g09> lol - they better not
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[12:04] <cm13g09> craag: I told them I'd send them the bill for my time this morning :P
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[14:51] <Maxell> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/10368927_1587519481482636_7218841249034221828_o.jpg
[14:51] <Maxell> oops
[14:54] <lz1dev> something is amiss
[14:56] <edmoore> jesus h christ
[14:56] <edmoore> how the hell did they manage that?
[14:57] beasty1 (810c335f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.12.51.95) joined #highaltitude.
[14:57] <daveake> HAB or an R?C model ?
[14:57] <adamgreig> hopefully an RC model if it was flying that battery :P
[14:57] <daveake> indeed :)
[14:58] <beasty1> hey guys, when applying for the NOTAM do you have to launch a HAB or private property? can you go to public areas, im too close to the coast to launch i believe
[14:58] <beasty1> on * not or
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[15:00] <mattbrejza> the caa dont care who owns the land
[15:01] <pc1pcl> I suspect it was a 'copter of sorts with separate power to the camera.. hopefully it was extra capacity 'in parallel' so it managed a controlled landing..
[15:01] <adamgreig> if it was an actual copter you should be able to safely land without battery power
[15:01] <adamgreig> if it was a quadcopter however...
[15:01] <adamgreig> Bad End
[15:02] <edmoore> you need battery power to land an actual copter
[15:02] <edmoore> for the servos
[15:02] <beasty1> thanks matt, i was going to try and find somewhere more north west of me, i am in kent - i was just worried about the address required for the launch site, if i find a random area to launch i would need an address
[15:02] <adamgreig> I guess I was imagining the servos and the camera would be on the same circuit
[15:02] <beasty1> and obviously dont want to be on someones property!
[15:02] <adamgreig> but yea probably a BEC from the main flight battery
[15:02] <adamgreig> in which case also a bad end :P
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[15:02] <edmoore> beasty1, ask someone from CUSF perhaps
[15:03] <edmoore> if you might be able to launch from their site
[15:03] <adamgreig> hi beasty1, if you'd like to launch from our site in cambridge you probably can, email contact@cusf.co.uk
[15:03] <adamgreig> we have all-year-round permission to launch
[15:03] <adamgreig> tho ed we now have to notify the CAA themselves like two or three days beforehand or some rubbish
[15:03] <adamgreig> notify not request permission at least
[15:03] <edmoore> sure
[15:04] <edmoore> the endless march of progress
[15:04] <edmoore> i did think that might be a hard patch of land to defend after in conquered it
[15:04] <edmoore> /metaphor
[15:04] <edmoore> I*
[15:04] <adamgreig> indeed
[15:04] <edmoore> as pilots seemed so very upset by the idea
[15:04] <edmoore> i don't miss the phone calls
[15:04] <pc1pcl> I suppose in theory they could come back after you notify them to please don't launch, KingX is visiting at that time and we need the airspace clear ;)
[15:04] <adamgreig> not that we've been launching very many balloons
[15:04] <adamgreig> well we don't get phone calls anyway
[15:04] <edmoore> indeed
[15:04] <adamgreig> fancy pants Progress system
[15:05] <edmoore> and indeed
[15:05] <adamgreig> answers the calls for us and etc
[15:06] <edmoore> yes that's a marvellous thing
[15:06] <edmoore> but as you say, not launching so much
[15:06] <edmoore> there was a period when churchill was at least weekly
[15:06] <adamgreig> yea
[15:06] <edmoore> with ours and ukhas friends
[15:07] <adamgreig> somewhat more saturated market of people willing to do commercial launches reduces that traffic (and income sadly), and the rest of the work is mostly rockets at the moment I suppose
[15:07] <adamgreig> fewer super-keen freshers too perhaps, I wonder if being a more established society kind of puts some of them off
[15:07] <adamgreig> or alternatively "kids today"
[15:08] <adamgreig> still some really keen newbies this year though, so it's not all doom and gloom
[15:08] <edmoore> indeed
[15:08] <edmoore> it was only ever about 3-4 good people each year anyway
[15:08] <edmoore> if that
[15:08] <edmoore> i think it was just me in my year
[15:08] <edmoore> iain and dan and jon were above
[15:08] <edmoore> fergus below
[15:08] <adamgreig> jon c?
[15:08] <edmoore> yes
[15:08] <edmoore> he started late but certainly made up for it in terms of hours spent in lab
[15:08] <adamgreig> oh I guess you mean like.. age year
[15:08] <adamgreig> lol indeed
[15:09] <adamgreig> his stuff is finally starting to vanish
[15:09] <edmoore> lol
[15:09] <adamgreig> wonder at what point i become the longest-running cusf member
[15:09] <edmoore> is the 'ion splutterer' still there?
[15:09] <adamgreig> iain probably has the record to beat?
[15:09] <edmoore> erm, 8 years?
[15:09] <adamgreig> not sure which one is the 'ion splutterer' but most of the less-mobile equipment is still somewhere
[15:09] <edmoore> iain did ugrad + Phd
[15:09] <adamgreig> he joined at the start of his undergrad?
[15:09] <edmoore> tho he started in 2nd year
[15:10] <adamgreig> right
[15:10] <adamgreig> I have a year on him there ;)
[15:10] <edmoore> there was no cusf at the start of his undergrad
[15:10] <edmoore> so yes, you will be by the time you finished your phd
[15:10] <adamgreig> horrifying
[15:10] <edmoore> finish*
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[15:11] <edmoore> i was on this channel before undergrad but knew i was going to be in cusf, i guess like you
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[15:11] <beasty1> thanks guys, atleast i know if all goes wrong i have you guys in cambridge!
[15:12] <adamgreig> beasty1: you can pretty much rock up with a couple days notice and we'll happily help you launch
[15:12] <adamgreig> i'd be surprised if there weren't some good-weather days from Kent though
[15:12] <beasty1> thats fantastic to hear :)
[15:13] <beasty1> the wind always seems to point me to france
[15:13] <edmoore> it farts in your general direction
[15:13] <beasty1> exactly
[15:13] <adamgreig> if you can land in france I highly recommend taking the channel tunnel and recovering it from the continent
[15:13] <adamgreig> come home wiht your hab + a boot full of french wine and cheese
[15:13] <beasty1> i like the optimism
[15:13] <adamgreig> worst case, it goes in the sea, you still get the bootful of edibles
[15:13] <edmoore> or stay over there and have a week of wine and cheese
[15:13] <adamgreig> ed has the right idea
[15:14] <edmoore> and the right relatives
[15:14] <adamgreig> at this weekend hackathon we were thinking we should do the next one in a chateau in france for a few days instead, avec vin et fromage
[15:14] <adamgreig> classier than the beer+pizza option
[15:14] <edmoore> how did that go
[15:14] <edmoore> was it the yurt one?
[15:14] <adamgreig> yea
[15:15] <adamgreig> quite fun but not a huge amount of actual hacking. lessons learnt about scheduling and the like
[15:15] <adamgreig> did get a better start on the sous vide controller, and updated my SDR libraries in Rust to 1.0-alpha which took some work
[15:15] <adamgreig> didn't do much on the new predictor interface though sadly
[15:17] <edmoore> pizza and beer does actual;ly finish me off
[15:17] <edmoore> i've noticed
[15:17] <edmoore> i've done quite a few late nights here with it over the last few months and it's been fairly fatal
[15:17] <edmoore> need to stick to coke even though i really don't like it
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[15:19] <adamgreig> not sure wine and cheese would be any better in that regard
[15:19] <adamgreig> but yes
[15:20] <adamgreig> makes the idea of maybe just playing some networked games on this high speed LAN or perhaps mario kart on the projector+wii more appealing
[15:20] <adamgreig> and debugging rust type errors less so
[15:21] <beasty1> thanks for the help guys, i'll join again abit later tonight - have a good day
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[15:22] <edmoore> firing test in J3 just sounded like an elephant in distress
[15:25] <pnephos> Hello. I am quite interested in knowing when did high-altitude balloon projects become popular among amateurs, beyond scientific research and weather analysis purposes.
[15:25] <pnephos> Would you say last decade?
[15:26] <adamgreig> maybe a little earlier, depends where
[15:26] <adamgreig> there have been amateurs doing this in the USA for yonks
[15:27] <adamgreig> last five years has seen pretty explosive growth in the UK/USA though
[15:27] <daveake> According to the CAA, there were 50% more in 2014 than in 2012
[15:27] <daveake> or 56%, somewhere around there
[15:27] <adamgreig> that's not so many more than I might have expected actually
[15:27] <daveake> ditto
[15:27] <adamgreig> I guess around that time the 2m-exemption ones also became popular ;)
[15:28] <adamgreig> that or there's a large base of launches that we don't know about
[15:28] <daveake> I wonder how many the CAA don't know about
[15:28] <adamgreig> yea..
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[15:29] <pnephos> When did UKHAS "born", by the way?
[15:29] <edmoore> 2006
[15:30] <edmoore> so in the uk i think the first one was end of 2005
[15:30] <edmoore> then there were three in 2006 i think
[15:30] <edmoore> and it's grown sharply since then
[15:30] <edmoore> we decided on this channel to make a wiki and loose group (which ended up being called ukhas) in 2006
[15:31] <edmoore> but it was really just born out of a few people being on this channel which was started by jcoxon and linked to from his webpage
[15:34] <pnephos> Hmm, that's very useful to know, I have to mention a bit the history of high altitude ballooning in my project presentation.
[15:35] <pnephos> Thanks!
[15:35] <edmoore> bill brown kicked of amateur ballooning in the US in the 80s
[15:35] <edmoore> wb8elk
[15:35] <edmoore> he's the grandfather of all this
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[15:39] <edmoore> pnephos, there you go, first uk launch pegasus 1 https://web.archive.org/web/20061116111724/http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/pegasus1.html
[15:39] <edmoore> using a very small embedded linux computer
[15:39] <edmoore> you see how much things have moved on since then
[15:39] <pnephos> wow, thank you
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[15:48] <craag> I'm pretty sure that my electronics teacher at the time saw pegasus and showed us it to try to get our class (of 2) to do something similar.
[15:48] <craag> (I would have been 16)
[15:48] <edmoore> flickr is a great place to find creative-commons licensed pictures of how to not do cables and connectors
[15:48] <edmoore> https://www.flickr.com/photos/hoeken/3042681134/in/photolist-4DfA6z-eco3C7-9e4sSz-jaJD6K-gMWBp-4w6iJx-9onSP9-9EUWTB-d72ktG-4DjR3q-9k8UWM-f1WkHC-9k8UWz-chidi-5CSx6y-5CSwzb-5CSw7f-5CSxus-5CSxXd-e8EQoq-9k8UWx-7RwUDP-5XzvNB-mEUNbP-arySkZ-7jhmeb-nJsne4-7RwSUg-64X3Gb-7PWi3D-d73kQG-9mytKK-6aBxL1-4P1Z5Y-6kAK2q-4GHGRh-5VKpdo-4qK5Se-axNBjo-dnEmFw-8txx4T-64X4pj-2zcFG2-4DfA1n-4o62i4-86PVfm-5iVJgT-9Y4vCM-7h18BR-5iVJwa
[15:49] <craag> We were confused by the legality though - so decided it would be too much effort.
[15:50] <edmoore> what got cusf going was my old director of studies showing the canadian glider project to a guy (carl) in the yr above me
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[15:52] <mfa298> edmoore: based on some of what I've seen here that's pretty good. someone tried to get USB over some 20 year old "computer" cable, bad solder joints and lots of lx tape. I wasn't surprissed when it didn't work.
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[15:56] <edmoore> i don't want to live in a universe where that's considered good
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[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_LORA after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_LORA
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[16:10] <edmoore> adamgreig, searched n connector creative commons on flickr
[16:10] <edmoore> you're top hit
[16:10] <edmoore> mind if i use it?
[16:10] <edmoore> w/attr
[16:12] <mattbrejza> https://www.flickr.com/photos/compacflt/14449704918 lolwut
[16:12] <adamgreig> is it in fact already CC licensed? :P
[16:12] <edmoore> so it is
[16:12] <edmoore> slow day
[16:14] <adamgreig> flickr really is bereft of n-connector photos
[16:14] <lz1dev> is that thing for real
[16:16] <edmoore> it is
[16:18] <adamgreig> edmoore: sigh, easyjet to amsterdam booked
[16:18] <adamgreig> admin staff were clear that I was welcome to take the ferry or the eurostar...
[16:18] <edmoore> oh well
[16:18] <adamgreig> but I would only be reclaiming any expenses for easyjet tickets
[16:19] <edmoore> oh
[16:19] <edmoore> so that's that then
[16:19] <adamgreig> and no in-lieu either
[16:19] <adamgreig> o well
[16:21] <LazyLeopard> Guess it's better than being booked on Ryan Air... :/
[16:22] <edmoore> there are a large number of things in that set
[16:22] <LazyLeopard> ...but the Harwich-Hoek crossing is quite a bit more pleasant as these things go...
[16:22] <LazyLeopard> edmoore: I think the set excludes less than it includes, yes...
[16:24] <LazyLeopard> ...probably by quite a large margin, even if you limit it to air flights. ;)
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[16:43] <infaddict> Any ideas where I might find a datasheet for http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[16:43] <infaddict> Particularly interested in wiring and digital I/O
[16:43] <adamgreig> https://u-blox.com/en/gps-modules/pvt-modules/max-m8-series-concurrent-gnss-modules.html
[16:44] <adamgreig> be sure to read the data sheet and the hardware integration manual and the protocol specification
[16:44] <Upu> derp
[16:44] <infaddict> wow that was fast, thanks!
[16:44] <Upu> its meant to have the datasheets linked
[16:44] <Upu> where did they go
[16:44] <Upu> Will fix
[16:44] <infaddict> no probs Upu, thx
[16:46] <edmoore> ublox move urls arround sometimes
[16:46] <edmoore> v unhelpful
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[17:02] <infaddict> Looks like I have a lot of ublox reading to do. And need to decide whether to use serial UART or DDC/I2C
[17:03] <edmoore> serial
[17:03] <edmoore> for an easier quieter life
[17:03] <infaddict> mmm i was thinking that edmoore. my pro mini only has 1 serial interface, which makes debugging tricky.
[17:03] <edmoore> yes it does
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[17:06] <pc1pcl> do some developing/ proof of concepting on something else that has twoo serial interfaces, or send debug out in e.g. morse on another pin...
[17:07] <infaddict> i have a SD card interface which i could use to write debug too. just a little less "real time" than I'm used to ;-)
[17:08] <db_g6gzh> until you need to talk to the GPS to put it in flight mode you can just send debug out the same port
[17:08] <adamgreig> infaddict: the DDC (aka I2C) interface is OK
[17:08] <adamgreig> it's implemented in a weird way that makes it mostly like serial
[17:08] <adamgreig> it will still be more effort than serial..
[17:08] <adamgreig> but if you're shy on serial ports perhaps best
[17:08] <db_g6gzh> even if the GPS is connected it will probably ignore your debug as invalid messages
[17:11] <adamgreig> wouldn't count on it..
[17:13] <db_g6gzh> OK, I've not tried it, just expected it would require checksum
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[17:17] <daveake> Just don't echo all incoming NMEA ....
[17:20] <db_g6gzh> oh yes, that would definitely confuse
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[17:22] <daveake> Strip the $ then it's fine
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[17:27] <infaddict> daveake - what do you mean by strip the $
[17:28] <daveake> Don't echo the $
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[18:11] <Flerb> Hi
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[18:34] <Mr_> Hello!
[18:35] <Mr_> I have some data I would like to put into Google Earth and make a balloon track in 3D
[18:35] <Mr_> Does anyone know how to do that?
[18:37] <Mr_> I´ve searched for instructions on YT but could not find.
[18:38] <daveake> What format do you have?
[18:38] <daveake> Google Earth wants KML
[18:38] <qyx_> https://support.google.com/earth/answer/148102?hl=en
[18:38] <qyx_> first hit in google
[18:39] <qyx_> and convert whatever you have to kml with gpsbabel for example
[18:39] <Mr_> I have some graphs on Exel and i have coordinates
[18:39] <arko> google pro went free today right?
[18:39] <Mr_> ok
[18:40] <arko> http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2015/01/google-earth-pro-now-free.html
[18:40] <arko> neato
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[19:26] <beasty1> Could someone point me in the direction of an up-to-date caa form for launching a balloon? or is the ukhas 2005 form sufficient
[19:29] <Upu> hey beasty1
[19:30] <Upu> the one on the Wiki here http://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality?s[]=notam is still valid
[19:30] <beasty1> thank you upu :)
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[19:32] <Flerb> http://puu.sh/f9DEJ/bda8ca13ea.zip < new board files - design rule and electric rules checkesw
[19:32] <Flerb> *checked
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[19:32] <Flerb> With a new comic sans logo
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[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:35] <Flerb> Gerblook isn't working for the gerber files
[19:36] <Flerb> odd
[19:39] <Flerb> http://gerblook.org/pcb/Pd6kPGn6dieTaYFhQKg4oB
[19:39] <Flerb> Can someone confirm that this is indeed blank?
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea nothing
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[19:42] <Flerb> weir.d
[19:42] <Flerb> *weird
[19:42] <Flerb> they are coming out ok elsewhere
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[19:47] <beasty1> blank for me
[19:47] <beasty1> has anyone got a site for the OS map at 1:50000, i have one but its hard to tell at what distance ratio im looking at
[19:51] <Flerb> Anyone mind just looking over my board to help me spot anything that may have escaped my notice?
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[19:57] <lz1dev> beasty1: the tracker has it
[19:58] <lz1dev> also http://www.bing.com/maps/
[20:01] <beasty1> how do i tell what height is 1:50000 ? sorry for being a pain!
[20:03] <lz1dev> you cant
[20:06] <lz1dev> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slippy_map_tilenames#Resolution_and_Scale
[20:07] <mfa298> beasty1: 1:50000 is normally the scale of the map for the 2d dimensions you can see, i.e. 1mm on the paper map is 50000mm (50m) in real life.
[20:08] <mfa298> on an OS map height comes from the contour lines which are normally a light brown and at 5 or 10m intervals (some will have a number against them at some point)
[20:09] <beasty1> oh i see
[20:10] <beasty1> so for the CAA form, what height do you think i should screenshot the map as
[20:10] <beasty1> or is it not that important
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[20:11] <mfa298> if you're looking at a 1:50000 map then im not sure what height has to do with it. If the height value your looking at changes the scale then it's not 1:50000
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[20:16] <mfa298> also if you're trying to do the grid reference from something like bing's OS map overlay it may not give you all the relevant information.
[20:17] <beasty1> what did you use mfa? have you filled one of the forms out before
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[20:17] <mfa298> I've not filled out a CAA form but I've used OS maps for other things
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[20:18] <mfa298> for a useful grid reference you need two letters and 6 numbers
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[20:18] <mfa298> you can work out the numbers from what bing shows but I dont think it has the letters, it looks like the CAA form also asks for the map number which you wont have.
[20:23] <beasty1> http://maps.the-hug.net/ these seem to have the reference numbers and the letters bit, right? or is that too little info aswell
[20:23] <mfa298> if you've never done a grid reference before this gives some idea of how the OS grid reference system works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_National_Grid#Datum_shift_between_OSGB_36_and_ED_50
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[20:24] <Flerb> Right - think I'll do one last check of the board tomorrow before sending it off the the manufacturers
[20:25] <mfa298> beasty1: when you click a point the bit at the bottom of the Your Route box is a six figure grid reference
[20:28] <beasty1> oooh i see it okay
[20:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPICDX1 after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=EDUPICDX1
[20:28] <mfa298> however that imagery appears to be missing a lot of the detail that should be on a 1:50000 map
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[20:31] <mfa298> also what you probably don't get from any of those sites is a map that's to scale (I don't know if the CAA care about scale or not)
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[20:32] <mfa298> the box at the very top of that page (I hadn't noticed it before) gives the Lan, Long and 8 figure grid reference.
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[20:42] <aj4bp> what are the freqs. for ps31 and ps32/
[20:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> See http://picospace.net/
[20:43] <Laurenceb__> i think ps31 came down
[20:44] <lz1dev> yep
[20:44] <lz1dev> they probably should just go for something other than latex balloons
[20:45] <Laurenceb__> huh
[20:45] <Laurenceb__> they are flying qualatex
[20:45] <Laurenceb__> but they arent high enough to avoid cloudtops
[20:45] <Laurenceb__> looks like you really need to be >11km
[20:47] <lz1dev> isnt qualatex also prone to bursting in a few day/night cycles?
[20:47] <Laurenceb__> iirc that was Leos custom aluminised foil balloons
[20:48] <Laurenceb__> qualatex seems to be immune to that problem
[20:48] <Laurenceb__> as the film is stronger
[20:48] <Laurenceb__> Heptax is where its at
[20:48] <lz1dev> oh ok
[20:48] <Laurenceb__> Heptax + hydrogen should fly for about a decade
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[20:49] <Laurenceb__> at ~1m diameter scale
[20:49] <lz1dev> b-67
[20:59] <Laurenceb__> Leo says ultra long duration is too boring :-/
[21:01] <lz1dev> should add active guidance system :p
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[21:03] <Laurenceb__> heh
[21:04] <Laurenceb__> its actually almost possible
[21:04] <Laurenceb__> there are 7gram pumps that could do google style ballasting
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[21:06] <lz1dev> that should be intresting
[21:06] <lz1dev> as well as uplinking commands
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[21:08] <Laurenceb__> atm I'm working on an uplink system for 434mhz
[21:09] <lz1dev> distributed ? :>
[21:10] <qyx_> secured and authenticated?
[21:10] <lz1dev> AES2048
[21:10] <qyx_> nsa proof
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[21:11] <lz1dev> until there is a bug in getballoonbyname()
[21:12] <qyx_> lol
[21:12] <qyx_> only dost and numbers allowed
[21:12] <qyx_> *dots
[21:12] <lz1dev> you mean dots and dashes
[21:13] <qyx_> http://xkcd.com/1473/
[21:17] <Laurenceb__> muh freedomz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urofsky_v._Gilmore
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[21:21] <lz1dev> !track PS*
[21:21] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PS*
[21:23] <Vaizki> KF5PGW-4 seems to have disapperared right above my former home :O
[21:25] <Vaizki> why that PS* search link gave me that balloon I have no idea
[21:26] <lz1dev> what browser?
[21:26] <Vaizki> safari on mac
[21:27] <Vaizki> works ok on Chrome
[21:27] <Vaizki> I don't think '*' is allowed in URLs
[21:27] <Vaizki> you should use %2A
[21:28] <lz1dev> wat
[21:28] <lz1dev> !track PS%2A
[21:28] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PS%2A
[21:28] <lz1dev> does that work?
[21:28] <Vaizki> nope it doesn't
[21:28] <lz1dev> what do you get?
[21:28] <Vaizki> I get K6RPT-12, KF5PGW-4, KF7RCV-11, PS-32, PI_SKY_LORA and EDUPICDX1
[21:29] <lz1dev> can you copy paste the url?
[21:29] <Vaizki> they all have a P..
[21:29] <Vaizki> what url?
[21:29] <Vaizki> if I click that latest link.. hmm
[21:30] <Vaizki> get redirected to http://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=9&qm=1_day&f=KF5PGW-4
[21:30] <lz1dev> sounds like safari is aweful :)
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[21:31] <Vaizki> probably that too
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[21:33] <lz1dev> what version is it?
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[21:35] <Vaizki> Version 8.0 (10600.1.25.1)
[21:36] <Vaizki> ok let me debug then
[21:37] <db_g6gzh> I see the same in another webkit based browser (I think Safari is webkit?)
[21:37] <lz1dev> oh i see
[21:37] <lz1dev> the redirect
[21:37] <lz1dev> doesnt keep the hashpart
[21:38] <lz1dev> installed v5
[21:39] <lz1dev> but it's probably old
[21:39] <lz1dev> half the stuff doesnt work
[21:39] <qyx_> no worky in midori
[21:39] <lz1dev> doesnt even have debug console
[21:39] <qyx_> all ok on ff 31
[21:40] <lz1dev> suprisingly renders everything ok
[21:40] <lz1dev> but gmaps api errors out
[21:40] <lz1dev> oh well
[21:41] <lz1dev> time to uninstall this
[21:42] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/eGYH36w.png
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[21:46] <infaddict> keen to hear experiences/recommendations of using either NMEA protocol (either raw or via TinyGPS) or the UBX protocol instead? I think UBX is faster as binary.
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[21:47] <infaddict> tbh i havent gotten as far as what format/protocol should be used by my payload to send back to the ground yet. Just looking at data from the GPS itself first.
[21:47] <lz1dev> Vaizki:
[21:47] <lz1dev> http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS*
[21:47] <lz1dev> does that work?
[21:47] <Flerb> Just got the PCBs ordered
[21:47] <Flerb> Came to about £14
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> infaddict, I used the UBX so far, that works quite OK
[21:49] <Vaizki> lz1dev: yes it does
[21:49] <infaddict> ok thanks Lunar_Lander. i will try to get that working first, then look at what packets to deliver via radio after that
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[21:51] <Vaizki> infaddict: I saw your worry about the serial ports.. did you checkout teensy 3.1?
[21:51] <Vaizki> check out
[21:51] <infaddict> hey Vaizki, hope i havent but i will search for that now. I found some code which uses I2C and it seemed fairly simple, so was gonna try that to save my serial worries.
[21:51] <Vaizki> i2c for ubx?
[21:52] <infaddict> yes
[21:52] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[21:52] <infaddict> http://www.recoon5.ru/en/story/u-blox_EVK-7N_I2C
[21:52] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[21:52] <lz1dev> !track ps*
[21:52] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ps*
[21:53] <Vaizki> works like a charm
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[21:55] <Vaizki> infaddict: how will you support clock stretching in ddc?
[21:55] <lz1dev> would be nice if safari kept fragments on redirect, but hey its apple
[21:55] <infaddict> Vaizki, if i knew what that was i might be able to answwer ;-)
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[21:56] <Vaizki> infaddict: is the GPS or the AVR the master in your DDC?
[21:56] <infaddict> the GPS can only be slave according to datasheet
[21:57] <infaddict> the code discovers slaves first
[21:59] <Vaizki> hmm ok.. well clock stretching is when the slave indicates to the master that it's not ready to receive by holding SCL low
[21:59] <Vaizki> master should check that if it tries to raise SCL that it actually goes up
[22:00] <Vaizki> anyway. if you have ready-made code which works and has been tested... :)
[22:00] <infaddict> well, it worked for him in a very narrow context. its just something im going to try when i get all the kit together.
[22:01] <infaddict> if it doesnt work or is error prone i will revert to serial
[22:01] <infaddict> i dont like just cutting and pasting code either, prefer to understand it and write it myself line by line
[22:02] <Vaizki> sh
[22:02] <Vaizki> rsure
[22:02] <Vaizki> if you cut & paste a whole file, it's called a library!
[22:02] <infaddict> ha
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[22:05] <Vaizki> well it could be that the arduino libraries handle clock stretching for you, returning an error
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[22:11] <infaddict> mmm looking at the schematic for the arduino pro in more detail there are the programming header pins (including serial tx and rx), to which you can connect a usb-serial breakout...
[22:12] <infaddict> then there are an additional RX and TX pins too
[22:12] <infaddict> so actually if i use the breakout, i think i then have another serial RT/TX
[22:12] <infaddict> gonna check that out to be sure
[22:13] <Vaizki> I don't think so
[22:14] <Vaizki> UART: 1 says the Atmel site
[22:15] <infaddict> ok so what are the other pair of rx/tx ports i wonder
[22:16] <db_g6gzh> lz1dev: that link format also works for me - not Safari, so looks like it's the underlying webkit engine
[22:16] <Vaizki> infaddict: I think they are just the same pins brought out to 2 places..
[22:17] <infaddict> ah right
[22:17] <Vaizki> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Arduino-Pro-Mini-schematic.pdf
[22:18] <Vaizki> yea, same pins on the atmega168
[22:19] <Vaizki> RXI and TXO
[22:19] <infaddict> yer so main chip has only 1 RXI and TXO, but there are 2 sets of pins, so must be same thing
[22:19] <infaddict> one set for FTDI basic
[22:19] <infaddict> thx for help
[22:20] <infaddict> so i presume with a usb-serial breakout card i would then see debug in the arduino GUI
[22:20] <Vaizki> well yes you would see your serial.prints
[22:21] <Vaizki> https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/teensy31_front_pinout.png
[22:21] <infaddict> yep. actually the reason for the 2 sets of pins has just dawned on me. you are likely to wire something up to the serial pins on the main side of the chip...
[22:21] <infaddict> then to xfer code you need to FTDI version of pins
[22:21] <Vaizki> that's what I'm going to start with
[22:22] <Vaizki> infaddict: exactly
[22:22] <infaddict> thats a nice selection of pins
[22:23] <infaddict> gotta shoot now, thx again
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[22:23] <Vaizki> too bad the LDO on it is 0.4V drop
[22:23] <Vaizki> and not 0.2 or so
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone note the balloon crossing the pacific with two men onboard?
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[22:51] <repbuta> Hi - using the new PITS+board = GPS lock, transmitting and decoding but no view on HABHUB?
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[22:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you submitted a Payload document ?
[22:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you DIPERK1
[22:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh he's gone
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[23:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-32 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-32
[23:35] <Flerb> damn - an error slipped into my pcb
[23:35] <Flerb> having to contact the manufacturer, hoping theyll cancel it in time
[23:42] <zyp> that's why you're supposed to review the design _before_ you submit it ;)
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[00:00] --- Thu Jan 29 2015