highaltitude.log.20150127

[00:00] <Ian_> or female to female http://www.ebay.com/itm/40PCS-Dupont-wire-20cm-Cables-Line-Jumper-1p-1p-pin-Connector-Female-to-Female-/221480809935
[00:01] <Ian_> The more specific you can be about your connector requirement, the better focussed answer you are likely to receive. Bedtime I suspect - brain fade :)
[00:04] <Vaizki> I'll pick the girl-on-girl action pls
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[00:06] <Flerb> I prefer male-to-male
[00:06] <Flerb> cables that is
[00:11] <Flerb> im not sure whether to believe that this magnifying glass I bought the other day has 175x magnification
[00:11] <Flerb> Guess Ill have to wait
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[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:16] <Ian_> Vaizki - . . . join the queue.
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[07:58] <LunarWork> morning
[07:59] <craag> morning
[08:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5PGW-4 after 038 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-4
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[08:13] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/qtr8271.mp3 QTR 8271: It's going to be an <what here?> Cargo aircraft, requrested this 3x
[08:14] <UpuWork> auto lander ?
[08:15] <jarod> think not
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[08:27] <Flerb> UpuWork I finished routing that board
[08:28] <Flerb> well I probably haven't really but ive routed it
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[10:03] <tweetBot1> @AKA2112: Two #AmateurRadio #PartyBalloon keep flying TX in 20m and 30m bands http://t.co/yxzTtaEVaH #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas #wsjt #jt9 #wspr
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[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_LORA after 0312 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_LORA
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> boo
[12:30] <Laurenceb> PS-31 came down
[12:30] <Laurenceb> I think they need to go a little higher
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[12:31] <Laurenceb> oooh
[12:31] <Laurenceb> map has great circle propogation lines
[12:31] <Laurenceb> very cool
[12:41] <Ian_> Flerb, congratulations. I guess that it wasn't as difficult as you imagined and probably a better job than the infamous Autorouter.
[12:42] <Ian_> I will look forward to you submitting it for peer review and feedback later.
[12:43] <Ian_> It's lalrgely a case of putting devices and off board connections where you want them and then elasticing connections so that they make sense (look good to you)
[12:46] <Ian_> After that there are the regular rule considerations and make sure that where you have pads to solder to that there is sufficient clearance between them and a groundplane copper pour that it isn't going to give you any concerns or problems.
[12:49] <Ian_> At your age, you are almost certainly ahead of your peer group, and constant exposure to imaginary numbers etc. may not make you brilliant, but you will certainly not be scared off by them and will be able to fill in the detail later when you need to use it.
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[13:22] <fsphil> imaginary numbers are badly named
[13:26] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/7OVxQwN.jpg
[13:27] <mattbrejza> why is it so deep?
[13:28] <Laurenceb> DLP
[13:28] <mattbrejza> oh
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[13:46] <infaddict> Well thats it. No going back now. Its payday and I've just splurged a couple of hundred quid on equipment and parts to fly sommick to near space. ;-)
[13:47] <edmoore> great!
[13:47] <edmoore> welcome
[13:47] <edmoore> we have support groups and a debt restructuring servive available
[13:47] <edmoore> and also a secret handshake
[13:47] <infaddict> lol
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[13:51] <Laurenceb> debt restructuring: dont use a parachute
[13:54] <infaddict> my costs are a bit higher than most as literally starting from scratch, even with basic equipment like soldering stuff. gonna be an interesting journey.
[13:55] <edmoore> many people get into electronics through hab - it's a great way in
[13:57] <fsphil> and it may lead you on to even more exciting and expensive things
[13:58] <infaddict> general question on the radio TX for RTTY, is this the accepted method of coding the NTX2 via arduino: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[13:58] <mattbrejza> eww
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[14:01] <mattbrejza> mostly due to the lack of indentation
[14:06] <adamgreig> :( that page no longer links to my nice explanation of the shift with one pin
[14:07] <fsphil> I still prefer that method
[14:07] <fsphil> pwm is overkill
[14:07] <fsphil> *for rtty
[14:11] <gonzo___> I use a single keyed pin, with a resistive attenuator. So I'm keying the NTX2 between 0v and 100mV or so. Seems stable enough that way
[14:11] <gonzo___> (actually I drive two pins in antiphase, so I can fix the shift polarity if I screw it up!
[14:15] <edmoore> also that code is really not great for beginners
[14:15] <edmoore> the PWM stuff
[14:15] <edmoore> because it just dumps registers and bitmasks on them with zero introduction
[14:17] <infaddict> interesting. are there any other pages i could look at that explain other approaches for RTTY?
[14:20] <edmoore> old version of that page: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1381045698
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[14:22] <infaddict> ooh that looks a lot simpler
[14:23] <edmoore> correct
[14:23] <edmoore> not sure why it was changed to something less pedagogical
[14:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
[14:23] <edmoore> progress maybe
[14:23] <storm_work> the pwm method gives you a lot more flexibility in choosing your frequency shift, it is also a nice idea to port this code into an interrupt...
[14:23] <daveake> those are 2 separate things
[14:24] <adamgreig> edmoore: now you can just buy the ntx2b and it's frequency agile and etc so who needs all this maths ;)
[14:24] <edmoore> who indeed
[14:24] <infaddict> yep i've bought the FA versoin
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[14:25] <edmoore> i can think of a few people that would benefit from a slightly more mathematical, principled approach to designing more complicated systems
[14:27] <edmoore> infaddict, the PWM version is better, perhaps try it once you understand what we're trying to do with the ntx2
[14:29] <edmoore> but you might legitimately have some questions about what on earth the code that sets up the PWM is doing because it's just dumped on you
[14:29] <edmoore> without any explanation of how microcontrollers actually work
[14:29] <edmoore> (an inherent flaw with the arduino and why I don't like it for teaching anything non-trivial)
[14:29] <lz1dev> my aprs code with interrupts wasn't working properly due to the softserial messing with the timing
[14:29] <lz1dev> it was a nice little bug to solve
[14:30] <edmoore> arduino doesn't really teach you interrupts either
[14:30] <lz1dev> true
[14:30] <lz1dev> their interrupts are hackisnh
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[14:31] <edmoore> you get someone saying that softserial isn't working with servomagic (or whatever) and you dutifully google both and look at the code and say to them 'ah, both libraries use Timer 2' and they say 'what's a timer?' and you put your head in your hands and curse the italians
[14:31] <infaddict> ok thx guys. i'm a coder in my day job so not worried about the code itself, but as you say what its trying to achieve in terms of 1) microcontroller and registers etc 2) radio
[14:32] <edmoore> sure
[14:32] <edmoore> so basically microcontrollers are a very simple processor with a lot of useful peripherals which are memory-mapped
[14:32] <edmoore> so one peripheral might be a timer
[14:33] <edmoore> it's just a bit of harder that can do lots of timing-related things, like making a square wave that is on for 1ms and off for 1ms, or making a single pulse that is 17uS long, or counting how long a pulse is coming from somewhere else but connected to a timer pin, or counting down for 2 seconds then alerting the processor when it's done, or any of the above
[14:33] <edmoore> very flexible peripherals
[14:33] <edmoore> so they have a bunch of knobs you can twiddle to set it up to do a specific thing
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[14:34] <edmoore> those knobs are actually memory locations to which you write byes - each bit, or group of bits, in a byte (herein called a control register) will set some aspect of the behaviour depending on if it's a 1 or a 0
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[14:35] <edmoore> normally the header files provided to you map the memory locations to meaningful register names, so take a look at the modern version of the document
[14:35] <edmoore> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[14:35] <edmoore> a random line from it:
[14:35] <edmoore> TCCR0B = TCCR0B & 0b11111000 | mode;
[14:36] <edmoore> that's setting a register called TCCR0B
[14:36] <edmoore> what the hell is that?
[14:36] <edmoore> well, stepping out of arduino land which is meant to abstract this all from you, we're using a chip called an atmega328 (I think, not used arduino for a while, might have changed)
[14:37] <edmoore> so we'll grab the datasheet for that
[14:37] <edmoore> i'll find it and link it
[14:37] <edmoore> http://www.atmel.com/images/Atmel-8271-8-bit-AVR-Microcontroller-ATmega48A-48PA-88A-88PA-168A-168PA-328-328P_datasheet_Complete.pdf
[14:38] <edmoore> download and open it
[14:38] <lz1dev> Upu: do you indent all your code with 1 whitespace? :)
[14:38] <edmoore> i am doing same bit internet slow here today
[14:38] <edmoore> yes the indentation is horrible
[14:38] <edmoore> must be a windows thing
[14:39] <edmoore> infaddict, still with me?
[14:39] Action: UpuWork looks up. Sees Ed ranting. Puts head back down
[14:39] <edmoore> this is what explaining stuff looks like
[14:39] <lz1dev> times huh? what bastards.
[14:39] <lz1dev> timers*
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[14:45] <Vaizki> I love arduino. Keeps my teenage son occupied ;)
[14:45] <infaddict> sry back now
[14:45] <edmoore> ok
[14:45] <infaddict> phone call came in
[14:45] <edmoore> keeping up with me?
[14:45] <infaddict> re-reading what you said, 2 ticks
[14:45] <edmoore> I thought'd I'd just help you figure out what is going on on the new arduino-ntx2 page as it's not explained
[14:46] <Vaizki> tl;dr - replace 3 resistors with PWM
[14:46] <Vaizki> if I read that right :)
[14:46] <edmoore> it was more the register bashing part
[14:46] <infaddict> edmoore - that site is slow, still loading datasheet for me
[14:46] <edmoore> yes it is slow
[14:47] <edmoore> shout when it's open
[14:48] <infaddict> done!
[14:48] <edmoore> cool
[14:48] <infaddict> it says TCCR0B is timer interrput
[14:48] <infaddict> or counter
[14:48] <edmoore> page 107
[14:48] <infaddict> yep
[14:48] <edmoore> that fully defines it
[14:49] <edmoore> it has bits within it that control different chunks of functionality
[14:49] <infaddict> so the code was setting 11111000
[14:49] <edmoore> so the way these datasheets work is that, for a given chapter on a peripheral, the first have a prosey section that explains how the peripheral works, and the various modes
[14:49] <edmoore> then at the end they have all the register definitions, like what we're looking at
[14:50] <infaddict> so the 000 at end means no clock source
[14:50] <infaddict> page 108
[14:50] <edmoore> so ususally you'd read the prosey bit, say 'yep, i think i want to use this to generate my pwm' and then look at the register definitions to figure out exactly what to do in code to set it up
[14:50] <Vaizki> infaddict: the code is ANDing with 11111000 to make sure the lowest 3 bits are zero...
[14:50] <Vaizki> and not changing the first 5 bits
[14:51] <Vaizki> then ORing with "mode" to set the bits in that variable
[14:51] <Vaizki> & = bitwise AND, | = bitwise OR
[14:51] <infaddict> yep got it
[14:51] <edmoore> coolio
[14:52] <infaddict> thx guys, so i should be able to at least lookup each register in datasheet to get idea of what its used for and some of the bits within it
[14:52] <edmoore> so if you are happy with that code and using the datasheet, and then read up on how PWM can be used to make specific voltages, then I might council eventually just dropping the arduino side
[14:52] <edmoore> and just doing normal C with register bashing, which is the conventional way of using these atmega chips
[14:53] <edmoore> that way you won't get errors when one mysterious arduino library clashes with another
[14:53] <edmoore> in a way that is opaque to the programmer
[14:53] <infaddict> yer i plan to go thru code with fine tooth comb and understand it the best I can, plus add my own comments so i remember later.
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[14:54] <Vaizki> but basically because they only call setPwmFrequency once and with a static divisor of 1, they could have replaced almost ALL of that code with one line.. TCCR2B = TCCR2B & 0b11111000 | 0x1
[14:54] <Vaizki> that would replace like a 100 lines of code :)
[14:54] <edmoore> i would aos, if you're interested, thoroughly thoroughly recommend this introduction to timers, interrupts, the serial port, and so on: http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/AVRArticles.php
[14:54] <edmoore> also*
[14:55] <edmoore> the two Newbie's Guide ones especially
[14:55] <Vaizki> oops well TCCR1B = TCCR1B & 0b11111000 | 0x1 actually
[14:55] <edmoore> the timer one will nicely complement figuring out that pwm code
[14:55] <infaddict> excellent, bookmarked!
[14:56] <Vaizki> also the Arduino IDE has a lot of restrictions and you might as well use GCC and your favorite editor directly
[14:58] <Vaizki> but of course you can get started quickly with the dumbed-down all-in-one arduino setup
[14:58] <infaddict> yep i need to walk before i run with this stuff. lots of moving parts and all very new.
[14:58] <day> gcc is already pretty dumped down
[14:59] <infaddict> gonna take 1 piece of functionality at a time (e.g. GPS, Temperature, SD Card) and breadboard it alone and get it working. then slowly introduce them together. unless theres a better approach.
[14:59] <day> all you have to do is write things to registers
[14:59] <Vaizki> infaddict: just so you know, if you have multiple source files in the Arduino IDE, it will just concatenate the contents into one file and compile it as a single source file
[15:00] <Vaizki> so they won't become separate .o files and be linked or anything like that
[15:00] <Vaizki> sooooo.. don't use the same global names in multiple files
[15:00] <infaddict> ok is the normal approach to put everything in once sketch file (could be messy) or keep them separate despite them ultimately being compiled together
[15:01] <Vaizki> I would still split them
[15:01] <edmoore> yes, arduino doesn't really encourage modularity and separate source files
[15:01] <Vaizki> just something to be aware of
[15:01] <edmoore> like, it's fine for what it is
[15:01] <edmoore> you're an artist and you want to get some LEDs to blink on your thing when people walk past your scultpure
[15:01] <edmoore> or whatever
[15:02] <edmoore> but you'll outgrow it quickly
[15:02] <Vaizki> it IS nice though that the whole toolchain & libs arrives in one installer
[15:02] <infaddict> yer its a bit primitive considering i'm used to visual studio
[15:02] <edmoore> and it in theory lets you do anything that you can do with a text editor and a normal toolchain, but of course if you're conceptually happy with that you might aswell drop the arduino ide
[15:02] <edmoore> yeah exactly
[15:02] <edmoore> you're used to proper programming environments
[15:03] <edmoore> you're ahead of who arduino is designed for
[15:03] <edmoore> but like you say, play with it
[15:03] <infaddict> yep i'll start there and once i understand it can move upwards
[15:03] <edmoore> and i'm confident before long you'll nautruaklly want to do a more conventional software engineering thing
[15:03] <Vaizki> and it's very easy to boot up a test project in the arduino IDE to try something out
[15:03] <edmoore> yes
[15:03] <Vaizki> no makefiles etc
[15:03] <edmoore> you can get the servos wiggling inside 20 mins
[15:03] <edmoore> there is value in that
[15:04] <infaddict> exactly. i need a playground to understand digital IO, analog IO etc
[15:04] <infaddict> and simple sketches are fine for that
[15:05] <infaddict> funny how i started with C decades ago, progressed through C++ and now use C# daily amongst others. Going back to my roots ;-)
[15:06] <edmoore> microcontroller programming is really satisfying i think
[15:06] <edmoore> you can control the universe
[15:06] <edmoore> or at least, affect it directly
[15:07] <infaddict> mmm i just need to get my head away from being so far removed from the hardware. instead we are right close to it. opposite of most modern programming environments.
[15:07] <edmoore> yeah exactly
[15:07] <Vaizki> yea reminds me of C64 and DOS programming ;)
[15:07] <fsphil> READY.
[15:07] <infaddict> PRINT "HELLO" GOTO 10
[15:07] <infaddict> and then run out of the shop ;-)
[15:08] <fsphil> ah the joys of pranking PC World
[15:08] <fsphil> putting up on their big projector in the store "NEXT DOOR IS CHEAPER"
[15:08] <edmoore> i missed all this sadly
[15:08] <Vaizki> I use the beaglebone black for some projects, it runs linux of course so there are things like device trees loaded at boot, device tree overlays etc etc.. drivers.. /sys and /proc mappings to talk to those drivers.. then people build libraries on top of those and node.js on top of that and a web gui etc...
[15:09] <edmoore> windows 95 was my first OS as a wippersnapper
[15:09] <Vaizki> I mainly open up /dev/mem and bash into it :D
[15:09] <fsphil> I got a 64 right before they disappeared
[15:09] <edmoore> Vaizki, cool, i am using a BBB for something
[15:09] <edmoore> not running linux though
[15:09] <Vaizki> RTOS?
[15:09] <fsphil> ooh
[15:10] <Vaizki> BBB rocked the socks off the RPi model B
[15:10] <fsphil> better hardware, but raspbian is a very nice distro
[15:10] <Vaizki> sure. I run Arch on everything :)
[15:12] <edmoore> openBSD
[15:12] <edmoore> it needs to just work and still just work in 10 years
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[15:13] <Vaizki> oh.. so how is USB support on openbsd?
[15:13] <Vaizki> for BBB I mean
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[15:16] <edmoore> not used it
[15:16] <edmoore> just serial and ethernet so far
[15:16] <edmoore> on a similar longevity note, there is something to be said for the python standard library
[15:17] <edmoore> even if there are sexier libraries on pip often, we had to use some very bespoke old bit of equipment for something specific that was from about 2005
[15:17] <edmoore> and the control software was all python and it Just Worked, including the tkinter gui
[15:17] <edmoore> i was preparing myself for a battle, there wasn't one
[15:17] <edmoore> the entire thing was just standard lib
[15:17] <adamgreig> the python stdlib is excellent
[15:17] <edmoore> no ancient Qt or Wx stuff that i feared
[15:18] <Laurenceb> BBB is horrific
[15:18] <Laurenceb> the USB and PMIC is a disaster zone
[15:19] <edmoore> lol
[15:19] <edmoore> you're like a 'nam veteran Laurenceb
[15:19] <edmoore> 'I've seen some things, man. And some stuff. Wouldn't recommend it'
[15:19] <Laurenceb> hehe
[15:20] <Laurenceb> more like ive deadbugged some stuff to death
[15:20] <Laurenceb> namely the BBB PMIC
[15:20] <edmoore> kernal support issues or that hardware's fault?
[15:20] <Laurenceb> both
[15:21] <Laurenceb> but mainly hardware
[15:21] <Laurenceb> the USB is mainly kernel
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[15:27] <Vaizki> what's wrong with the PMIC?
[15:27] <Vaizki> I've only poked at it with I2C
[15:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5NAC-11 - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=W5NAC-11
[15:31] <Laurenceb> it doesnt support charging properly, or battery monitoring
[15:31] <Laurenceb> or temperature monitoring
[15:31] <Laurenceb> just due to n00b pcb errors
[15:38] <Vaizki> yea.. well to be fair they don't claim that it does.. :)
[15:38] <Vaizki> but yes, it would have been nice not to screw that up
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[16:02] <edmoore> Vaizki,
[16:02] <edmoore> http://www.openbsd.org/armv7.html#hardware
[16:02] <edmoore> ehci(4) on imx and panda
[16:03] <Vaizki> hmm is panda am335x?
[16:03] <edmoore> so suggest no beagle yet
[16:03] <Vaizki> yea that's what I thought
[16:07] <Vaizki> so about that ntx2b code.. I'm going to get some myself and wondering about the PWM.. is it ever necessary to dynamically alter the shift for rtty?
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[16:17] <fsphil> normally once it's at a good value you'd leave it alone
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[16:18] <Flerb> hi
[16:19] <fsphil> howdy
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[16:23] <edmoore> Vaizki, yeah i'd leave it, you don't want to have to have all your receivers having their settings updated mid flight
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[16:24] <Flerb> I was thinking - are there any relatively comprehensive electronics books that covers all the basics of analog circuits and then goes on to more complicated stuff? i feel my basic electronics knowledve is shaky
[16:25] <Flerb> at some poub
[16:25] <Flerb> oops
[16:25] <Flerb> cant type on this phone
[16:25] <edmoore> Flerb, so there's a classic book called 'The Art of Electronics' by Horowitz and Hill
[16:25] <edmoore> often just abbreviated to H+H
[16:26] <edmoore> it's not the cheapest but you'll probably keep it for your whole life and it will be useful
[16:26] <edmoore> that + lots of experimentation (so, a breadboard, an old oscilloscope, a power supply, some components) and you'll be laughing
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[16:27] <edmoore> for reference my company has four full time employees and there are three copies of it on our bookshelves
[16:30] <Flerb> theres one at the library die b
[16:31] <Flerb> due back feb
[16:31] <edmoore> perfect
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[16:31] <Flerb> that said it might mean ill need to wait 6 monts
[16:31] <edmoore> electronics is one of those things where trying stuff out yourself if you can will help a lot
[16:32] <Flerb> reminds me
[16:32] <Flerb> i have a law textbook due back soon
[16:32] <Flerb> didnt really get round to
[16:32] <Flerb> reading
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[16:32] <Flerb> My ganddad did elecytonics
[16:33] <Flerb> i think ill stop tring to tupe
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[16:34] <Flerb> theres a pdf of the entire book
[16:34] <Flerb> on a uni sit
[16:35] <Flerb> surely they shouldnt do that
[16:35] <edmoore> the internet is like that
[16:36] <Flerb> should i feel guilty
[16:39] <Flerb> yolo.
[16:39] <Reb-SM0U1C> *mat*
[16:41] <Flerb> mat?
[16:45] <mattbrejza> oh, the 3rd edition is out in april
[16:46] <mattbrejza> http://www.amazon.com/Art-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz/dp/0521809266/
[16:49] <edmoore> apparently that might be all lies
[16:51] <fsphil> Flerb: the pdf on uncor.edu? seems to be missing chapter 1
[16:52] <Flerb> yeah
[16:53] <fsphil> £28 for the paperback. not bad if it's something you'd keep going back to
[16:54] <fsphil> oh that's second hand
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[17:07] <studentnorth> hey guys could i ask a quick question about launching a HAB
[17:08] <fsphil> yes. that was indeed quick :)
[17:08] <studentnorth> hahah
[17:08] <fsphil> no point asking to ask, just fire away
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[17:09] <studentnorth> i was planning on launching a hab in random dis-used feild i dont think it is owned , my issue is the permit forms you have to fill out ask for a launch location address
[17:10] <studentnorth> do they send a letter to this address or can i just dot down the road name and give the location on a map ?
[17:10] <edmoore> the latter
[17:10] <edmoore> you give your own mailing address
[17:10] <edmoore> doesn't need to have anything to do with the launch site
[17:11] <studentnorth> so on the form
[17:11] <studentnorth> for the section " postal address of sit"
[17:12] <studentnorth> i can just use my own address ?
[17:12] <studentnorth> site*
[17:12] <edmoore> yes
[17:12] <studentnorth> thank you!
[17:12] <edmoore> but i would caution that the field 'not being owned by anyone' is improbable
[17:13] <studentnorth> yes thats true
[17:13] <studentnorth> is there a website i can use to find the nearest aerodome to the launch site
[17:14] <studentnorth> ive had a look at some and they seem to be listing retired airfeilds etcetera
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[17:22] <Reb-SM0U1C> Flerb: sri... food in swedish... wrong window...
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[17:58] <Flerb> fsphil: never sure about second hand textbooks
[17:58] <Flerb> of course at gcse level there's bound to be some dicks drawn in there
[17:59] <Flerb> so you really have to get the full-price ones
[17:59] <gonzo_nb> if not, I'm sure you can add them where req
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[18:03] <Ian_> http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Art-Electronics-Hill-Horowitz-2e-Paul/14838353562/bd?cm_mmc=gmc-_-gmc-_-PLA-_-v01
[18:04] <Flerb> It's a shame I'm missing the amateur radio club's talk on arduinos
[18:04] <Flerb> A lot of the talks tend to be a bit complicated
[18:04] <Flerb> And kind of boring
[18:05] <Flerb> Ian_: think that's it
[18:05] <Flerb> india
[18:05] <Flerb> "International edition" - because electrons behave differently in different countries
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[18:08] <fsphil> Flerb: that's what tipex was invented for :)
[18:08] <Ian_> The thing is with popular student text books is that a lot of students sell them when they feel the need for them is over.
[18:08] <Flerb> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071771336/
[18:08] <Flerb> I think I'll get the library one
[18:08] <Flerb> Saving up at the moment
[18:09] <Flerb> Or I could try and persuade the parents to get it for me. After all, that's what child benefit is for
[18:10] <Ian_> Sandwell college was giving away laptops to new students a couple of years ago. They got a phone call from cash converters (local pawn shop) to complain about the high numbers that were being brought in and sold - so that was a great success.
[18:13] <Flerb> http://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.ziphttp://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.ziphttp://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.ziphttp://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.ziphttp://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.ziphttp://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.zip
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[18:13] <Ian_> Flerb, do you reckon that an International Edition might be written in Pidgeon English or what? I just picked up five Tom CLancy novels for £10.07 second hand, but they still read correctly, why would I want to otherwise pay £35 for the privillege of buying new and giving away afterwards?
[18:13] <Flerb> oops
[18:14] <Flerb> logmein lag
[18:14] <Flerb> 12:58 < Flerb> of course at gcse level there's bound to be some dicks drawn in there
[18:14] <Flerb> 12:59 < Flerb> so you really have to get the full-price ones
[18:14] <Flerb> 12:59 < gonzo_nb> if not, I'm sure you can add them where req
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[18:15] <Flerb> 13:01 -!- jonsowman [~jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com] has joined #highaltitude
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[18:15] <Flerb> 13:03 < Ian_> http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Art-Electronics-Hill-Horowitz-2e-Paul/14838353562/bd?cm_mmc=gmc-_-gmc-_-PLA-_-v01
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:04 < Flerb> It's a shame I'm missing the amateur radio club's talk on arduinos
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:04 < Flerb> A lot of the talks tend to be a bit complicated
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:04 < Flerb> And kind of boring
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:05 < Flerb> Ian_: think that's it
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:05 < Flerb> india
[18:15] <Flerb> 13:05 < Flerb> "International edition" - because electrons behave differently in different countries
[18:15] <Flerb> crap
[18:15] <Flerb> http://puu.sh/f6B15/2382057a9e.zip
[18:15] <Flerb> ^ that is my board
[18:15] <mattbrejza> hmm
[18:15] <Flerb> I would do a gerblook
[18:15] <Flerb> but meh
[18:17] <Flerb> The pcb manufacturer doesn't provide a gerber file anyhow
[18:17] <Flerb> i mean a job
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[18:22] <mattbrejza> http://gerblook.org/pcb/5RTKxbF5LogrBTtdDFgT44
[18:22] <Flerb> Thanks
[18:22] <Flerb> Didn't realise the name goes over the pins
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[18:23] <Flerb> I made a few bendy tracks
[18:23] <Flerb> because yolo
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[18:24] <Flerb> mattbrejza: thats odd
[18:24] <Flerb> it doesnt
[18:24] <Flerb> in eagle at least
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[18:25] <Flerb> its on it in the sketchup model ok
[18:25] <mattbrejza> when it generated the gerbers it converted the text from 'proportinal' to 'vector'
[18:25] <mattbrejza> (for some reason)
[18:26] <qyx_> ysou should use vector fonts in eagle
[18:26] <qyx_> when generating gerbers
[18:27] <mattbrejza> also you havnt run drc
[18:27] <qyx_> yep, your tracks are a bit uhm.. spiky
[18:27] <qyx_> and overlapping
[18:32] <Flerb> good point
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[18:35] <Flerb> mattbrejza: is it possible yto use comic sans on it?
[18:36] <mattbrejza> i would advise you not to try
[18:38] <Flerb> im not sure about my integrated logic analyzer header
[18:38] <Flerb> maybe its making the routing overly complex
[18:39] <Flerb> is minimizing via use good?
[18:43] <mattbrejza> not really, although other good practices tend to reduce the number of vias
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[18:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-32 after 039 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PS-32
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[20:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
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[20:53] <Laurenceb__> https://imgflip.com/i/gw8fx
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[21:31] <Flerb> I wonder if its worth waiting for the third version of the art of electronics
[21:32] <mattbrejza> depends if you were going to buy new or second hand?
[21:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> ping Upu
[21:34] <Upu> hey Geoff
[21:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> hi mate is that board likely to turn up tomorrow? I'll forwarn my neighbour if so
[21:35] <Upu> unlikely its sat next to me
[21:35] <jcoxon> Upu, that 3d printer arrive yet?
[21:35] <Upu> no
[21:35] <Upu> they sent a mail apologising
[21:35] <Upu> not been shipped yet
[21:35] <jcoxon> at least you are in the loop
[21:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK, no problem, ordered the Rpi B+ but will be out all day tomorrow!
[21:36] <Upu> will post tommorrow
[21:36] <Upu> yeah we did wonder
[21:36] <jcoxon> when it arrives it'll make sense why it takes a while - there are a lot of parts
[21:36] <Upu> yup
[21:36] <jcoxon> and if you are missing one (which i was) then you'll ground to a halt
[21:36] <Upu> I want to print myself an Irdium module so I can size up design without having to buy one
[21:37] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:37] <jcoxon> i had to replace a part of my printer as it was beginning to wear - and it was suprisingly easy :-)
[21:37] <Vaizki> upu, do you sell the pava 9 trackers btw?
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[21:37] <jcoxon> Upu, i'm getting my filament from faberdashery.co.uk
[21:38] <jcoxon> not the cheapest but amazing quality
[21:38] <Upu> no Vaizki
[21:38] <Upu> they are difficult to work with
[21:38] <Upu> I don't make many, haven't made any for 6 months
[21:38] <Vaizki> ah
[21:39] <Upu> We have a reel of something bright orange sat at work
[21:39] <Flerb> should be pink
[21:39] <Upu> Prefer the more robust trackers Vaizki
[21:39] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/uAvaNut/IMG_1915.JPG
[21:39] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/uAvaNut/IMG_1918.JPG
[21:41] <Upu> interesting colours jcoxon :)
[21:41] <Upu> http://www.faberdashery.co.uk/products-page/print-materials/aurora/
[21:41] <Upu> sold
[21:41] <jcoxon> and it glows in the dark
[21:41] <jcoxon> this is my favourite
[21:41] <jcoxon> http://www.faberdashery.co.uk/products-page/print-materials/galaxy-blue/
[21:41] <Upu> :)
[21:42] <jcoxon> it got glitter
[21:42] <Upu> aweomse
[21:42] <Upu> awesome even
[21:42] <Flerb> I was thinking of taking the logic analyzer header off my board
[21:42] <Flerb> just causing extra routing problems
[21:42] <jcoxon> i found my prints are better with it, i've also set my printer up to do some calibrating before every print
[21:42] <Flerb> at least the autorouter didn't accidentally overlap tracks :P
[21:42] <jcoxon> it slows things down a little but seems to make a big difference
[21:42] <Upu> well
[21:43] <Upu> I'll let you know when it finally turns up
[21:43] <jcoxon> excellent
[21:43] <Flerb> 3D printing sounds interesting
[21:43] <Flerb> but I can't really think of how youd use it
[21:44] <Flerb> I didn't really understand the 3d printed handgun either
[21:44] <Vaizki> upu, nice board that indeed. great battery holder choice too
[21:44] <Upu> thx :)
[21:46] <Vaizki> is that arduino underclocked to 2MHz?
[21:46] <Vaizki> sorry AVR
[21:46] <Vaizki> the arduino stuck from earlier discussions here :)
[21:46] <Upu> no that one just runs at 8Mhz
[21:46] <Upu> 3.3V
[21:47] <Upu> The pava9's are "underclocked" to 2Mhz
[21:47] <Upu> the crystal is a 16Mhz with the DIV/8 fuse set
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[21:47] <Upu> so they can run @ 1.8V
[21:47] <Vaizki> yea.. what's the radio on that other tracker?
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[21:47] <Upu> night Lunar
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[21:48] <Upu> MTX2
[21:48] <mfa298> Flerb: 3D printing is good for custom parts (see craag's fake battery that appeared on hackaday), we also use them at work for custom mounting parts for various things
[21:48] <Upu> Radiometrix
[21:49] <Vaizki> ah.. the shielding is your own or from them?
[21:49] <Upu> its theirs
[21:49] <Upu> I ahve removed it one some other trackers
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[21:54] <Flerb> mfa298: it would have to have had built in 25-pin rs232 to appear on hackaday, surely?
[21:54] <Flerb> :P
[21:55] <Vaizki> I have never done surface mount beyond replacing a couple of LDOs.. small trackers might change that.
[21:55] <Upu> start simple
[21:55] <Upu> and work down :)
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[21:56] <Vaizki> work down?
[21:56] <Vaizki> you mean into smaller pads & pitch?
[21:57] <Upu> well
[21:57] <Upu> Start with 0805
[21:57] <Upu> components
[21:57] <Upu> I generally use 0603
[21:57] <Upu> there are a number of 0402's on PAVA9
[21:59] <Flerb> Hand soldered?
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[22:00] <Flerb> I was thinking - if I ever do work directly with the nrf24l01 I might try to toaster mod
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[22:03] <Laurenceb__> I just use a hot air gun
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[22:17] <Upu> yes Flerb
[22:18] <Upu> with a stencil mostly though
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[22:21] <Flerb> Upu: without a stencil, could you just squirt solder paste on each padd?
[22:22] <Vaizki> if you have a good solder mask, sure..
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[22:30] <Laurenceb__> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/2/4/0/5/7/a4918699-78-DSCN7695.jpg
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[22:31] <Vaizki> clean work there.. :O
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[22:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF7RCV-11 - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=KF7RCV-11
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 28 2015