highaltitude.log.20150126

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[00:23] <Flerb> arent osh park quite expensive?
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[03:06] <Ian_> Inconvenient having lost your boards, but in the end it was only a time delay after all?
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[09:01] <HB9RSU> Morning all. Which GPIO are used by pits?
[09:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03vp20_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=vp20_chase
[09:04] <daveake> New or old board?
[09:07] <UpuWork> https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits-hardware
[09:07] <Vaizki> hmm PS-32 already in the air? rapid fire ballooning in AUS
[09:07] <daveake> Must be summer down there
[09:09] <Vaizki> could be. maybe I should go and check.
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[09:27] <infaddict> Morning all. I'm trying to find the current draw of the uBLOX Max M8C GPS whilst in use. As a elec newbie I'm struggling to make sense of the documentation. Any rough ideas please?
[09:28] <infaddict> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[09:30] <Vaizki> well first of all, open the data sheet.. http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/MAX-M8C-M8Q_DataSheet_%28UBX-14001938%29.pdf
[09:31] <infaddict> Thanks Vaizki, yep I got that far. I skimmed through it and clearly have missed what I am looking for!
[09:31] <Vaizki> "Indicative current requirements"
[09:31] <Vaizki> 3.3
[09:32] <Vaizki> 27mA for acquisition (getting initial lock which is rarely), 5.5mA when tracking in power saving
[09:33] <infaddict> brilliant thanks. so 27mA worst case, but hopefully down to 5.5 when tracking.
[09:34] <Vaizki> well if you are not running it around the world 8 times on tiny solar panels I don't think it's going to matter much whether it's 20mA or 6mA :)
[09:34] <infaddict> indeed ;-)
[09:36] <Vaizki> the continuous mode is probably going to give you a better position though
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[09:41] <infaddict> yer even that is only 25mA
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[09:41] <infaddict> but still my biggest draw bar the microcontroller i think
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[09:45] <gonzo___> your TX is probably going to be of the order of 20ma
[09:46] <infaddict> yep around 18 according to specs
[09:46] <infaddict> temp sensor is tiny (1.5ma)
[09:47] <gonzo___> I've missed some of the chat. What country are you in infaddict, and what system are you TXing? rtty/aprs?
[09:48] <infaddict> England. RTTY i think. just planning everything.
[09:48] <Vaizki> the ntx2b is <1mA when idle though
[09:48] <Vaizki> and you are not transmitting all the time
[09:48] <Vaizki> I hope...
[09:48] <infaddict> that is true
[09:49] <infaddict> yet to decide on how often to tx. is there a normal period, like once a minute?
[09:49] <gonzo___> if turning off the TX, then you should give it a few seconds of carrier after power up before sending rtty
[09:50] <gonzo___> that allows people to retune their receivers (though I thing the NTX2B is better freq stability, so enough time for the AGC to tweak it )
[09:50] <Vaizki> I did some initial estimates myself (not flown yet either) and ended up somewhere around 100mA for the in-flight power
[09:51] <gonzo___> for very low power flights, is has been done once every few minutes, starting exactly on the minute. But it's more common to just send continuously
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[09:51] <infaddict> yer i reckon i am in that ballpark Vaizki, just need to understand the draw of the Adruino Mini Pro 328 properly
[09:51] <infaddict> still researching that
[09:51] Nick change: alan_ -> Guest12040
[09:51] <gonzo___> if your flight is in hours, rather than days (or months if you are leo) then continuous telem should be easilly achievable on batteries
[09:52] <infaddict> yer i think the decent Li batteries are around 3000mAh? so isnt that 30 hours of use?
[09:53] <infaddict> not including temperature etc
[09:53] <Vaizki> yes, but how long is it going to take you to find it :)
[09:53] <infaddict> ha ;-)
[09:54] <gonzo___> depends on your currnet draw. Theoretically you should be able toi get 100ma for 30hrs. But you will have to look closely at the specs.
[09:54] <daveake> I used most of those 30 once :p
[09:54] <Vaizki> well I guess most of the woods in the UK have been cut down but here in Finland I'm pretty much guaranteed a tree-top or lake landing...
[09:54] <infaddict> i will of course do some testing on the ground. which i know isnt entirely accurate.
[09:54] <infaddict> to test battery life
[09:55] <gonzo___> your domestic freezer should be about -20deg c, which is useful
[09:55] <Vaizki> well energizer has a data sheet (again) with pretty good temperature-capacity curves for different draws
[09:55] <Vaizki> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[09:55] <infaddict> yep i have that sheet thanks Vaizki. sneakily they do a crapper version of their Li AA which looks very similar.
[09:55] <gonzo___> but if you insulate the payload and make sure it cannot let in cold draughts etc, you should be able to keep the insides pretty warm, wrt the outside temp, foir a good few hours
[09:55] <infaddict> Advanced vs. Ultimate
[09:56] <infaddict> yep L91 is the good one. EA91 is the lesser one.
[09:56] <gonzo___> go for the best you can get
[09:56] <infaddict> 3000 vs 1500
[09:56] <Vaizki> if you can stay above -20 you're golden looking at the DS
[09:56] <gonzo___> double the time for a quid extra?
[09:57] <Vaizki> a quid saved is a quid in the pocket
[09:57] <Vaizki> (not really in this case)
[09:57] <gonzo___> or an upset if the telem dies an hour earlier than you get to site.
[09:58] <gonzo___> if you get it back, you can still use the batts in a torch or somethinmg non critical
[09:58] <Vaizki> I guess you could start sleeping the arduino, shut down the GPS and only send out RTTY every 10 minutes after having been on the ground for 2 hours
[09:59] <Vaizki> but I know from (bitter) experience that doubling operation modes often triples your faults :)
[09:59] <Vaizki> so you need 5x the testing
[10:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Trying to DF a short signal can be very difficult, if you drop the repition rate on landing then allow at least 30seconds of carrier per transmission to allow identifying and then swinging the aerial around.
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[10:01] <Vaizki> I wonder how much battery a beeper would eat up
[10:01] <Vaizki> probably too much
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[10:02] <daveake> piezo sounder doesn't use much
[10:02] <Vaizki> mainly wondering because mine is going to be in a tree
[10:02] <daveake> I used one on my first flight and it did help
[10:03] <infaddict> yer was gonna ask you guys that. seen a few people suggest beeper or buzzer when landed.
[10:03] <daveake> It landed in someone's unoccupied garden. His neighbour was outside but didn't hear the piezo as it was above the range of his elderly hearing
[10:04] <infaddict> even saw 1 guy who had some sort of clever solenoid to detach the payload if up a tree
[10:04] <infaddict> haha daveake, hopefully blind as well so you can sneak in his garden!
[10:04] <daveake> No he was helpful, if bemused
[10:04] <Vaizki> how did that solenoid thingy detect it's in a tree?
[10:05] <infaddict> it didnt, it was operated remotely from the ground once you knew it was stuck
[10:05] <Vaizki> ah. well that would be problematic here.
[10:05] <Vaizki> anything with remote control is not an unmanned light balloon
[10:05] <infaddict> ah
[10:05] <Vaizki> which gets you into a world of hurt with flight regs
[10:05] <infaddict> i see
[10:05] <Vaizki> it's a drone, not a weather balloon :)
[10:05] <infaddict> too complicated for my first flight but thought it was interesting
[10:06] <Vaizki> yea well maybe you don't need to tell anyone about the receiver and servo :)
[10:06] <Vaizki> but going by the book..
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> 'Balloon' is actually not well defined in the UK legislation at all.
[10:06] <daveake> Rule 1: For the first flight, keep it simple
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> 'Kite' is even worse
[10:06] <daveake> Rule 2: Same as rule 1, for the second flight
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[10:08] <Vaizki> I need ground radar on my payload so it can auto-detach 20m above ground / treetops etc ;)
[10:08] <Vaizki> bombs awaaaaay
[10:09] <Vaizki> and exploding bolts. those are a must.
[10:10] <Vaizki> after which it will float over the border to russia and start a war
[10:10] <infaddict> yep i need to add Learn CAA/ATC and UK law to my list. already started on "Electronics for dummies" and "Soldering for dummies" lol
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[10:15] <Vaizki> about soldering.. as a recent noob, two tips.. get a decent electronically controlled soldering iron and make sure your lead is a) one that contains lead, screw that RoHS, b) not too thick, more like thin (I use 0.7mm mostly)
[10:16] <Vaizki> I know it's possible to solder well on a cheap iron without temp control but I can't jump on the deep end like that it seems
[10:17] <infaddict> thx, i've ordered a temperature controlled solder station
[10:17] <Vaizki> in the deep end even...
[10:17] <HB9RSU> @daveake: the old board
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[10:18] <daveake> HB9RSU What do you need to know exactly?
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[10:21] <HB9RSU> I just need a free GPIO so I can connect the release mechanism I made to drop the payload when the software thinks it's appropriate
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[10:23] <gonzo___> the other key points on soldering.... keep the tip clean and most important, you apply solder to the joint, not the iron.
[10:24] <gonzo___> (and if you are using no-clean flux solder, get a little pot of liquid fluc and an artisit paint brush)
[10:24] <gonzo___> flux
[10:25] <Vaizki> and don't breathe the fumes :)
[10:26] <HB9RSU> ok, I found it on the GIT link. GPIO 5, 8 and 13 are free...
[10:27] <daveake> Nope
[10:27] <daveake> Well depends how you number them :/
[10:27] <daveake> The numbers in the code are WiringPi numbers
[10:27] <daveake> Some pins change between old and new boards - it uses "NewBoard" to decide
[10:28] <HB9RSU> no, on the pdf which describes the hardware...
[10:28] <daveake> which is the new board
[10:29] <HB9RSU> ok... sorry. With "old" I meant the old pits ... but its a newer Raspberry
[10:29] <daveake> You need the .sch file (and Eagle) for the old board
[10:30] <daveake> The old PITS is for the model A/B only. The code checks the model of Pi and uses the appropriate GPIO pins for the old or new PITS.
[10:31] <HB9RSU> referring PiInTheSky-Mainboard-v2.3.pdf
[10:32] <daveake> Yes, which is the new board
[10:32] <HB9RSU> I have a Model A (about a year old) with the old PITS board
[10:33] <daveake> So you need the schematic for the old board, which isn't in github as a PDF
[10:33] <HB9RSU> so, which GPIO can I use? ;-)
[10:33] <daveake> ping UpuWork
[10:35] <daveake> 1 sec
[10:36] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/viGNjYo.png
[10:36] <daveake> oh balls that's the +
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[10:38] <daveake> OK easy solution, there are some spare pins on the board
[10:38] <daveake> For external i2c and onewire devices
[10:38] <daveake> Use one of those
[10:39] Nick change: spe_ -> spe
[10:40] <daveake> http://i.imgur.com/Kn9fHRV.png
[10:40] Nick change: spe -> Guest96028
[10:40] <daveake> Other than those, GPIO22 is free
[10:40] <HB9RSU> hm, would prefer GPIO because I just want an ON/OFF
[10:40] <HB9RSU> oh, thanks!
[10:40] <daveake> You can use them as GPIO
[10:41] Nick change: Guest96028 -> spe
[10:41] <HB9RSU> Thanks dave! I am off for lunch now
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[12:11] <Manofmilk> Hello all
[12:11] <Manofmilk> I'm totally new to the whole 'make things go high' concept but I am looking to launch a balloon with my raspberry Pi attached.
[12:12] <Manofmilk> At the moment my main question is around tracking and recvieng telemetary from the Pi while it is in flight
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[12:13] <Manofmilk> I already have the Microstack GPS unit which is working so ideally whatever radio transmitter I use would be able to be connected at the same time as that
[12:13] <Manofmilk> any advice greatly recvied
[12:13] <craag> What's your question? :)
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> !wiki tracking
[12:14] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-Tab: Found 0311 results for you query - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/start?do=search&id=tracking
[12:14] <Vaizki> Manofmilk, ntx2b on 433MHz doing RTTY is a default choice I see thrown around a lot. no experience at all here wither.
[12:14] <Vaizki> either
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Where are you based?
[12:15] <Manofmilk> sunny suffolk
[12:15] <Vaizki> damn I can't type anymore
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Take a
[12:15] <Manofmilk> yeah - I've read a bit and that does seem the defautl starting point
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Look at the wiki
[12:17] <Manofmilk> aye, I've started to RTFM
[12:17] <Manofmilk> basic programing I can do
[12:18] <Manofmilk> its cabling/soldring the radio toether to the Pi (and ideally working alongside the GPS module I already have) that i'm struggling with a little
[12:18] <daveake> Should be easy enough with any Pi prototyping board
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[12:21] <Vaizki> not sure if there is a '+' version of humble pi, I used that proto board a couple of times with my projects
[12:21] <daveake> No, but there are some "+" proto boards
[12:22] <daveake> "ProtoPal" is one I have here
[12:22] <Vaizki> and I guess model A+ raspi is the way to go
[12:22] <Manofmilk> I have an A+ and a B+, the idea being to play around with the B+ until everything is working and use the A+ for the actual flight
[12:23] <daveake> good plan
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[12:32] <Vaizki> "IBM is reportedly planning its largest corporate layoff ever - cutting 111,800 of its staff."
[12:32] <Vaizki> ooops wrong window sorry
[12:35] <talsit_roam> anyone have a set of spectrum analyser probes they think is good and would recommend others to buy?
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[12:49] <mfa298> Manofmilk: one important thing to check is how well your GPS works at altitude (a lot cut out at 18km or lower)
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[12:52] <SpeedEvil> I use a long ladder.
[12:53] <Manofmilk> sucks for IBM employees!
[12:54] <Manofmilk> i'll check the specs of the GPS to see what it says
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[12:54] <Manofmilk> tbh i'd rather spend a few more quid on a recommended module and have a successfull flight
[12:56] <Vaizki> what yagi antenna do you guys use for chasing on the ground?
[12:57] <Vaizki> looked at this one http://www.moonraker.eu/amateur-radio/beam-and-yagi-antennas/zl-special-yagi-antenna/zl7-70-70cm-7-element-special-yagi-antenna
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[13:00] <Vaizki> or just roll my onw?
[13:00] <Vaizki> own.. dammit...
[13:01] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
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[13:47] <Laurenceb> anyone here with experience of FatFS?
[13:49] <lz1dev> thats the one used by macdonalds, right?
[13:50] <SA6BSS> lol
[13:51] <edmoore> Laurenceb yes
[13:51] <edmoore> but like 6 years ago
[13:51] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:51] <Laurenceb> I should have experience too
[13:51] <edmoore> so a bit like asking me about how to model dislocations in martensitic steel
[13:51] <edmoore> a factoid remembered for an exam once and forgotten four minutes later
[13:52] <Laurenceb> im getting FR_NOT_READY on every other bootup
[13:52] <Laurenceb> so it works, fails, works fails et
[13:52] <Laurenceb> *etc
[13:52] <edmoore> och you dinna want te gettin that now
[13:52] <Laurenceb> yeah its perplexing
[13:53] <Laurenceb> i'll going to try fiddling with the INTERFACE_SLOW speed
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[13:55] <Laurenceb> hmf no luck
[13:56] <Laurenceb> I've been stuck on this for weeks
[13:56] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/blob/master/main.c
[13:57] <Laurenceb> line 122 fails every other boot
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[14:00] <mattbrejza> youre making a hab? (or hab like device)
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[14:01] <Laurenceb> maybe one day...
[14:01] <edmoore> you are an enthusiastic commenter Laurenceb
[14:01] <Laurenceb> debugging this code is the only thing holding me back atm...
[14:01] <Laurenceb> "only"
[14:01] <edmoore> do you have a debugger?
[14:01] <mattbrejza> and gravity
[14:02] <Laurenceb> yeah an st-link
[14:03] <edmoore> host os?
[14:03] <Laurenceb> linux - ubuntu
[14:03] <Laurenceb> so far I have ruled out power supply issues
[14:03] <edmoore> is that throuhg the texane port or has everythig moved on since then?
[14:03] <Laurenceb> yeah its moved on
[14:04] <Laurenceb> I use https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+download
[14:04] <edmoore> (i use a black magic debug probe now)
[14:04] <Laurenceb> yeah I should get one
[14:04] <edmoore> texane was just the st-link port i thought rather than the toolchian
[14:04] <Laurenceb> oh
[14:04] <edmoore> i use that toolchain too
[14:04] <Laurenceb> yeah sorry, I use that
[14:04] <edmoore> ok
[14:04] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:04] <Laurenceb> not my day today, cant think straight
[14:05] <Laurenceb> ok ruled out SLOW_INTERFACE
[14:05] <Laurenceb> its not that either
[14:05] <Laurenceb> VCC looks perfect, 3.3v, stable, 10ms rise and fall
[14:06] <Laurenceb> and ruled out spi fast speed, changing that doesnt alter the behaviour
[14:06] <Laurenceb> and ruled out the card, changing cards doesnt effect it
[14:06] <Laurenceb> ~same code runs ok on another board
[14:07] <Laurenceb> but I've changed the APB/AHB setting to a slightly weird combination on this board
[14:07] <Laurenceb> I suspects thats behind the behaviour, but may be wrong
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[14:11] <Vaizki> I don't want to read all your code but are you sure the pins where flash is connected are not assigned to any internal peripherals after boot?
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[14:12] <Vaizki> ack time to run home&
[14:13] <infaddict> Hello again. What are peoples thoughts on GSM/mobile phones as a backup to radio (esp when landed or hidden behind hill)? Is a real mobile phone preffered or how about one of these GSM board you can add onto the microcontroller?
[14:14] <Laurenceb> Vaizki: interesting idea, thanks
[14:15] <Laurenceb> but it doesnt seem that they are
[14:16] <infaddict> The ukhas wiki mentions the good old Nokia 5110 and similar. Incidentally one of my first phones back in the day ;-)
[14:16] <infaddict> Clearly quite heavy tho and not sure on how the batteries would hold up after all these years
[14:16] <craag> infaddict: The microcontroller gsm boards are quite easy to work with.
[14:17] <infaddict> thx craag, so do they simply accept a SIM card and then you fire events at them to send a text?
[14:17] <craag> They are a good plan as backup. Due to coverage issues (no coverage about a few km up, and none in a ditch), they only tend to have about 50% success rate.
[14:18] <infaddict> yep radio is my primary comms, but thinking of GSM as backup
[14:18] <craag> Yeah, there's arduino-type libraries for them where you set them up, and can then send text, or more complicated tcp/udp/http
[14:18] <infaddict> as you say, out in the English countryside often 0 signal anyway
[14:18] <craag> Good plan, if your radio does fail, 50% chance is better than 0% at that point!
[14:18] <infaddict> interesting so they could do data as well as test potentially (e.g. send position to a website)
[14:19] <infaddict> *text
[14:19] <craag> Yes, some people have used them to submit the gps directly to habitat (the database behind the tracker website)
[14:19] <daveake> I flew a GSM-GPS tracker fairly recebtly, just because the custoer happened to sell thm and wanted to try it out. Annoyingly, it gave him the landing position before I managed it via radio :/
[14:19] <craag> THat's a little complex though.
[14:19] <edmoore> \we certainly used to routinely fly old nokias as backup
[14:19] <edmoore> and my first ever flight computer (designed with fergus) had a gsm module lemme find a pic
[14:20] <craag> So maybe just go for text unless you've got everything else working and are still bored before the launch (won't happen)
[14:20] <daveake> I made a radio tracker with GSM added. Never flown it.
[14:20] <edmoore> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/2501001643/
[14:20] <edmoore> er, off by one sorry
[14:20] <edmoore> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/2501001535/in/photostream/
[14:20] <edmoore> the thing on the left is gsm
[14:20] <edmoore> the thing on the right is a lassen iQ
[14:21] <edmoore> which was a gps to rule gpses
[14:21] <edmoore> in the same way that some valves used to be better than other valves but now you just used transistors
[14:21] <edmoore> which are ubloxes in this metaphor
[14:21] <daveake> has it got a lock yet? :)
[14:21] <infaddict> ha
[14:21] <daveake> I still have a few in my box
[14:21] <edmoore> that computer was i think quite old when i took that photo too
[14:22] <mattbrejza> once you work out what it wants for an antenna theyre fine...
[14:22] <edmoore> my first ever made-properly pcb too
[14:22] <mattbrejza> weve flown one quite recently just bcause it worked
[14:23] <infaddict> mmm so this begs the question do you have separate GPS and GSM modules or an all in one board
[14:23] <daveake> Yeah I flew one last year
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[14:23] <Vaizki> infaddict, separate. also note you need one more serial port for the gsm...
[14:23] <edmoore> it gave its life eventually https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3863616068/in/set-72157622038400075
[14:23] <Vaizki> so if you want debug serial + gps + gsm, that's 3
[14:24] <edmoore> the ntx2 was offboard because we had it in a heatshrank sausage of insulation to stop it drifting
[14:24] <edmoore> which was quite effective
[14:24] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:24] <Laurenceb> if i slow down INTERFACE_SLOW it works twice then fails
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[14:24] Nick change: day- -> day
[14:24] <Laurenceb> this is so bizarre
[14:24] <edmoore> but i basically recommend doing an actlic laquer protective coat on your boards
[14:25] <edmoore> and if you want to know why, look at that photo
[14:25] <edmoore> although that was in the north sea for several months
[14:25] <Vaizki> how was it found?
[14:26] <infaddict> whoa thats some corrosion
[14:26] <infaddict> I live 200 metres from the North Sea coastline. Not an ideal launch spot with the winds we get ;-)
[14:27] <daveake> Ideal if you want to land in Belgium
[14:27] <edmoore> Vaizki, a danish guy walking their dog on the beach
[14:27] <Vaizki> yea well I looked at predictions for launching from near home.. it's going to be in the baltic sea or in russia 90% of the time
[14:27] <Laurenceb> edmoore: which micro did you use for SD ?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> LPC?
[14:27] <edmoore> LPC2148
[14:27] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:27] <edmoore> still have fond memories
[14:28] <edmoore> sd was just spi interface though
[14:28] <Laurenceb> happen to know what you had INTERFACE FAST and SLOW as?
[14:28] <Laurenceb> yeah same here
[14:28] <edmoore> jesus no Laurenceb
[14:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:28] <edmoore> like asking me what i ate for dinner 7 years ago on this day
[14:28] <edmoore> no f-k--- idea
[14:28] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:28] <Laurenceb> time to try random speeds then
[14:29] <infaddict> silly q on GSM then... a lot of the arduino type website are USA based. Do they use different frequencies for GSM than UK?
[14:30] <Laurenceb> heh no it gets worse again as I reduce the speed
[14:30] <Laurenceb> grrrr
[14:30] <Vaizki> infaddict, yes but it doesn't matter
[14:30] <Vaizki> if it's "quad band" you're fine. 900/1800 here in europe.
[14:31] <Vaizki> 850/1900 in the US
[14:31] <infaddict> ok so i need to look out for a module that is quad band or support 900/1800 then
[14:32] <Vaizki> I think they're all quad-band unless you find some pre-2000 stock...
[14:32] <infaddict> ah right cool. Thx Vaizki. Some more shopping to do later on then ;-) Building up quite a list lol.
[14:33] <infaddict> I might ask you experts to review my list before I part with my £££. Just to make sure there's no schoolboy incompatabilities in there. Only if people have the time/patience of course.
[14:33] <Vaizki> remember to add wifi and bluetooth and an oled display :)
[14:33] <infaddict> lol if money, weight and power consumption were no object ;-)
[14:34] <Vaizki> might as well fly an android tablet
[14:36] <x-f_> actually somebody here "forced" an android phone to transmit RTTY over the radio and succesfully flew it
[14:37] <adamgreig> it's happened a lot?
[14:37] <pc1pcl> ( https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/Funny/pico.jpg )
[14:37] <adamgreig> they can also transmit images over sstv and gsm and stuff
[14:37] <infaddict> lol @ the hammer
[14:39] <Vaizki> looking good there
[14:39] <Vaizki> hnnggh helium is 250 euros for 8m3 here .. :O
[14:40] <edmoore> use hydrogen
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[14:48] <Vaizki> yea I have to look into that.
[14:58] <edmoore> much cheaper
[14:58] <Ian_> Helium is 250 Euros, going to have to use hydrogen instead - strike a light!
[14:58] <Ian_> Boom - save you the trouble edmoore
[14:58] <Ian_> :)
[14:59] <Laurenceb> edmoore: this is my issue I think
[14:59] <edmoore> i don't blow people up anymore
[14:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.at91.com/discussions/viewtopic.php/f,15/t,20736.html
[14:59] <edmoore> not even on the mailing list
[14:59] <edmoore> retired from being annoyed
[14:59] <Laurenceb> "In ACMD41 you need to pass the that the host supports SDHC cards and you need to pass which voltage is handled"
[14:59] <Laurenceb> and of course the cards are glitchy
[14:59] <Laurenceb> in their implementation
[15:00] <edmoore> cars are a massive horrible nightmare
[15:00] <edmoore> the spec is horrifying
[15:00] <Laurenceb> yup
[15:00] <edmoore> well no, the spec is ok, the variation in implementnation is horrifying
[15:00] <Laurenceb> I'm going to have to add some #defines to the FatFS startup or something
[15:00] <edmoore> also see usb sticks
[15:01] <edmoore> honestly if civil engineers took their work as seriously as consumer electronics engineers then most people would die of structures falling on them
[15:01] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:01] <edmoore> you'd never make it to adulthood
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[15:03] <Vaizki> I'm always amazed at the quality of connectors on consumer electronics
[15:03] <Vaizki> how does anything work...
[15:04] <Ian_> The evolutionary outlook is quite grim then. We have been making caves much longer than electrical items.
[15:13] <Reb-SM0U1C> edmoore: bought a led-lamp last weekend, died saturday.
[15:13] <edmoore> nice
[15:15] <Reb-SM0U1C> 25k h lifetime..
[15:16] <gonzo___> all 25k hrs run concurrently?
[15:17] <Reb-SM0U1C> that's a uknown
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[15:18] <gonzo___> don't by any cheap chineese LED lamps though. Niot the ones with electronics in. I have seen some very nasty ones.
[15:19] <gonzo___> Had some where they just put mains straight into the recifier, absolutly no attemot at EMC. Not supprisongly they took out everything up to 50MHz
[15:20] <gonzo___> they were modded to 12V instead and prought some branded ones
[15:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_LORA after 035 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_LORA
[15:25] <Reb-SM0U1C> gonzo___: these ones are from ikea and not so cheap. usually tested ok since they sell globaly
[15:28] <Vaizki> Ledare? Those are ok
[15:30] <Reb-SM0U1C> Vaizki: probably just got a bad one.. those bathtubcurves.. :) but one thinks about building statistic with one that runt less that 50h
[15:34] <Vaizki> Yea I have 30+ ledare, none died in 2 years
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[15:37] <day> Vaizki: imagine high quality connectors. People would wreck them the first time they plug them in :X
[15:39] <day> tbf. ive never prevented rotationary movement between two dielectricas in highfrequency connectors either
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[15:44] <edmoore> day, there are robust connectors
[15:44] <edmoore> designed for the fat fingered
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[15:50] <infaddict> These GSM modules are quite pricey! Don't suppose theres a handy list of mobile phones that support serial connection (i.e. send SMS from serial instructions to do so). The ukhas wiki mentions 3 but they are really old and hard to get hold of.
[15:51] <infaddict> Found 1 other on the web (Motorola) but again not available in UK. Anybody get any others to work?
[15:53] <craag> sim900 gsm modules are reasonable I think - not worked with one myself though.
[15:54] <infaddict> ah right. i was looking at arduino/sparkfun units and its about $60 for the GSM module then that again for a breakout board
[15:54] <edmoore> doubt you'll get a great deal better than that
[15:55] <edmoore> and not many phones have serial ports anymore which is why we went for those old ones
[15:55] <infaddict> yep not expecting a new GSM unit for much less, but if I can find an old phone for £10 or £20 that would be considerably cheaper
[15:55] <infaddict> dont mind paying for a GSM module if I was guaranteed to see it again haha!
[15:57] <infaddict> those SIM900 look more reasonable about $48 all in
[15:57] <craag> never guaranteed. but a lot of effort and diligence will make it very very likely :)
[15:58] <gonzo___> if you don't mind the weight you can get old gsm modems, that will do text messaging with ST commands, pretty cheap on ebay
[15:58] <edmoore> or there's fbus which was more arcane than it needed to be
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[16:10] <DL7AD> PS-31 is starting to write my name :D
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[16:23] <HA6NN> DL7AD: Hi, Did you receive transmission of PS-31?
[16:23] <Reb-SM0U1C> ps31 / 32 = both vk3yt
[16:23] <Reb-SM0U1C> ?
[16:24] <DL7AD> HA6NN: no i have no suitable antenna.
[16:24] <DL7AD> and anyway i think i will be unable to receive it even with best equipment
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[16:29] <DL7AD> has anybody tried to receive the PS ballons here in europe?
[16:29] <DL7AD> probably UpuWork Upu ?
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[16:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 0315 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
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[16:37] <edmoore> i am not sure Upu is that set up for HF DL7AD
[16:38] <DL7AD> edmoore: i thought he has.
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[16:40] <edmoore> unsure. fsphil might know
[16:40] <edmoore> he's been playing recently
[16:42] <fsphil> don't think so
[16:42] <fsphil> too much noise for me to even bother trying
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[16:49] <DL7AD> fsphil: i could try it because i have a portable car-station anyway.
[16:49] <DL7AD> because im unable to get a stationary setup
[16:49] <edmoore> parkinsons?
[16:50] <DL7AD> ?
[16:50] <DL7AD> sry i have an antenna which i just cant setup at home
[16:51] <DL7AD> so just a simple dipole which is probably unable to receive it
[16:51] <DL7AD> a yagi would be better
[16:52] <DL7AD> thats what ive meant with "no suitable antenna"
[16:53] <craag> fsphil: Are you planning a HF rx on your remote station?
[16:53] <edmoore> also an observatory?
[16:54] <craag> Just needs a telescope duct-taped to the picam and he's sorted right?
[16:55] <edmoore> exactaru
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[17:02] <fsphil> thinking about an all-sky camera
[17:02] <fsphil> though I can do that at home just as easily
[17:03] <fsphil> craag: wouldn't mind HF up there, need an HF <> VHF+UHF diplexer
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[17:04] <craag> I dunno if you're far enough away from urban noise for it to be worth it
[17:05] <fsphil> definitly quieter there than at my house
[17:05] <craag> maybe quiet enough that you could get away with one of the tiny electrical antennas like used on the twente websdr
[17:07] <fsphil> certainly works very well for them
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[17:13] <Vaizki> Miniwhip
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[17:14] <Vaizki> A friend of mine made one, it's quite hard to understand how it works so well...
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[17:21] <HA6NN> DL7AD:Thanks for your reply! Excuse me reacting a bit too late...I had to leave my shack. Of course it would be almost impossible to receive the qrpp transmissions under normal propagation conditions.
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[17:41] <DL7AD> HA6NN: QSL
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[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_SKY_LORA_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_LORA_chase
[19:10] <daveake> erm who dat ^^ >
[19:10] <daveake> ?
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[19:22] <jcoxon> ping edmoore
[19:22] <edmoore> pong jaco caxorious
[19:22] <edmoore> writer of interminable bass solos
[19:22] <edmoore> portrait of my own suicide
[19:24] <jcoxon> oh gosh, are we in jazz mode?
[19:24] <edmoore> was he jazz?
[19:24] <edmoore> hard to say i think
[19:24] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:25] <jcoxon> helen wants to know if we have plans for nuptial balloon launches
[19:26] <edmoore> ah
[19:26] <jcoxon> i told her everything was sorted which is obviously a lie
[19:26] <edmoore> ah
[19:26] <edmoore> so yes we should have this discussion then
[19:26] <edmoore> except i'm about to go and play badminton for a few hrs
[19:26] <jcoxon> np, another time
[19:26] <edmoore> well in 5-10 minutes
[19:26] <jcoxon> its no hurry
[19:28] <edmoore> we should
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Up to 10000 per square kilometer per 15 minutes.
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> up to 2m in diameter each
[19:31] <edmoore> not like that
[19:31] <edmoore> they'd have to have trackers
[19:31] <jcoxon> yes
[19:32] <jcoxon> they would
[19:33] <jcoxon> they should have lights in the balloons
[19:33] <edmoore> yes
[19:33] <edmoore> for sure
[19:33] <edmoore> some nice 1W cree things
[19:33] <edmoore> you'll see them for ages
[19:34] <edmoore> does there exist a colour theme?
[19:34] <edmoore> (literally down to the last 120 seconds here)
[19:35] <edmoore> right gtg
[19:35] <jcoxon> aaahhh yes tehre is
[19:36] <jcoxon> but we'll talk later
[19:36] <edmoore> kk
[19:36] <edmoore> ttfn
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[19:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
[19:59] <Flerb> Hello
[19:59] <Flerb> these guys don't look bad.
[19:59] <Flerb> http://smart-prototyping.com/PCB-Prototyping.html
[19:59] <Flerb> I'm reluctant to use hackvana again
[20:00] <jededu> Never had a problem with Hackvana :)
[20:01] <Flerb> my boards got lost
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[20:05] <Flerb> imaginary numbers stopped making sense to me after sleeping
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[20:09] <mfa298> Flerb: items lost in the post happens, what the seller does about it and how quickly is the important factor
[20:10] <mfa298> and if having items not lost is important you pay a bit extra for tracking.
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[20:15] <mattbrejza> Flerb: http://dirtypcbs.com/
[20:18] <jededu> mattbrejza have you used them very cheap
[20:18] <jonsowman> yes, they're good!
[20:19] <jededu> might try them next time ive just sent the new ones off
[20:27] <adamgreig> i also recommend dirtypcbs
[20:27] <adamgreig> but hackvana have been good for me in the past
[20:27] <adamgreig> and tbh seeedstudio too :P
[20:29] <Ian_> Strikes me that you tested Hackvana's mettle and found it sound. As mfa298 says you only get to know your supplier when things happen. HV is a tested supplier in your book I would have thought.
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[20:30] Action: Ian_ copies details of recommended board suppliers from the thread for future shortlist use.
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[20:40] <number10> strange marketing: No bull, just crappy PCBs
[20:40] <SA6BSS> have used dirty pcb many times, nice pcb:s
[20:45] <jededu> Hackvana is good and very helpful
[20:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPICDX1 after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=EDUPICDX1
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[20:59] <Flerb> mattbrejza: the shipping on those is quite long
[20:59] <Flerb> I might try those smart prototypes people
[20:59] <mattbrejza> i think youll find all the shipping is the same
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[21:05] <Flerb> they are about 6.90 usd mattbrejza
[21:05] <Flerb> for 7-10 day iirc
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[21:15] <guest______> w
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[21:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M0UPU-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=M0UPU-11
[21:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0UPU-Chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=M0UPU-Chase
[21:31] <arko> Upu: you flying?
[21:33] <Upu> no
[21:33] <Upu> just testing
[21:33] <Upu> EVERYTHING
[21:33] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/Q9OeaKN.jpg
[21:34] <arko> haha
[21:34] <Upu> RTTY, Lora and APRS all at once
[21:34] <arko> holy cow
[21:34] <Upu> thx to daveake's code
[21:34] <arko> that's a hab sandwich
[21:35] <Upu> still lighter than a Byonics Microtrak
[21:35] <arko> hahaha
[21:35] <daveake> Triple big-mac
[21:35] <arko> looks great though
[21:36] <arko> dude
[21:36] <arko> you should just ask nasa for a spot in a cubesat launch
[21:36] <Upu> lol
[21:36] <arko> looks ready to go to me :P
[21:37] <arko> i'm tempted to joke that it's the american cousin of CUBEX
[21:37] <Upu> haha
[21:39] <daveake> Or like this vs Stig http://www.topgear.com/uk/imageresize/image.jpg?OriginalImageUrl=%2fuk%2fassets%2fcms%2f162568e7-00ca-4235-b957-d9bc8e8b21f3%2fLarge+Image.jpg%3fp%3d150125_11%3a26&Width=615&Height=347
[21:39] <arko> hahaha
[21:39] <arko> american stig?
[21:40] <Upu> lol
[21:44] <arko> http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/topgear/images/2/2a/Rig_stig.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091009234206
[21:44] <arko> hahaha
[21:44] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/BCkJkgN.png
[21:45] <arko> too great
[21:45] <Upu> :)
[21:45] <arko> so some news for you and davbren_
[21:45] <arko> op
[21:45] <arko> oops*
[21:45] <arko> so some news for you and daveake
[21:45] <arko> (tabbed too much)
[21:46] <daveake> It's OK I'm used to being given the wrong callsign :p
[21:46] <Upu> haha
[21:46] <arko> lol
[21:46] <arko> i'm giving this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSw62pqseGI at JPL in the next month
[21:46] <arko> so you guys might get some JPLer customers :P
[21:47] <Upu> awesome :)
[21:47] <Upu> already got some :)
[21:47] <Upu> but more is good :)
[21:47] <arko> nice!
[21:47] <Upu> well you
[21:47] <arko> heck yeah
[21:47] <Upu> does spacex count ?
[21:47] <arko> lol
[21:47] <arko> sure
[21:47] <arko> close enough
[21:47] <Upu> and NASA ?
[21:47] <arko> nice!
[21:48] <Flerb> I'm not sure whether to trust the autorouter for this pb
[21:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-5 - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-5
[21:48] <Flerb> *pcb
[21:48] <Upu> Will never use autorouter ever
[21:48] <daveake> Never trust the autorouter
[21:48] <arko> autorouters kill
[21:48] <Flerb> never ever ever?~
[21:48] <arko> EVER
[21:48] <Upu> never
[21:49] <Vaizki> I tried autorouting once
[21:49] <daveake> https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/14248405503_a47ed6bb0f.jpg
[21:49] <Vaizki> I got OCD from it
[21:49] <arko> daveake: LOL
[21:49] <Upu> lol
[21:49] <arko> take my money
[21:49] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5PGW-4 after 0320 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-4
[21:49] <arko> where do i get that shirt?
[21:49] <Upu> you had that :)
[21:49] <daveake> Not sure but I saw an advert last week
[21:50] <arko> http://teespring.com/autorouter
[21:50] <arko> EXCELLENTTT
[21:50] <daveake> http://teespring.com/autorouter
[21:50] <daveake> damn too slow
[21:50] <Vaizki> well that isn't really autorouted
[21:50] <Vaizki> unless that's 2 layers in one color
[21:51] <Flerb> the autorouter didn't do a bad job - I don't think
[21:51] <Flerb> But I can't tell how I might do it better
[21:51] <Upu> it did
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[21:52] <Flerb> think the datasheet said not to put power lines near signals
[21:53] <Flerb> I forgot most of that
[21:53] <Flerb> pcb stuff
[21:54] <arko> daveake: hah
[21:54] <arko> Flerb: layout is a very important skill to learn
[21:54] <arko> it's also kinda zen
[21:54] <Upu> yup
[21:54] <Upu> I enjoy it
[21:55] <arko> fun puzzle
[21:55] <arko> yeah
[21:55] <arko> rip * when you feel you can do it better
[21:55] <Upu> its only panelising that makes me want to smash eagle so far back out of my monitors
[21:55] <arko> hah
[21:55] <Upu> ripup;
[21:55] <arko> that why i have hackvana do it
[21:55] <arko> im lazy
[21:55] <Upu> though I'm getting the hang of it now
[21:55] <arko> i can do it.. but i just hate it
[21:56] <Upu> doing some nice stuff with milling and vscoring
[21:56] <arko> ah nice
[22:01] <Flerb> Upu: does hackvana do all the boards yousell?
[22:01] <Upu> yes
[22:01] <Flerb> is panelising where you stick loads of holes in a single design?
[22:01] <Flerb> so you can break boards off
[22:01] <Upu> yep
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[22:02] <Upu> example : http://i.imgur.com/DnITbTG.png
[22:02] <Flerb> http://puu.sh/f4pRV/cf57122070.png
[22:02] <Flerb> this it so far
[22:02] <Upu> sides are milled out
[22:03] <Upu> the board is vscored where you see the green lines
[22:03] <Upu> so those bits in the middle snap out
[22:03] <Upu> but overall the panel is very strong
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[22:03] <Upu> I'm sure it will work
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[22:04] <Flerb> those tracks are my own
[22:04] <Upu> maybe you should try autorouter
[22:04] <Upu> <joke>
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> autorouter is actually useful
[22:05] <Upu> 90' corners
[22:05] <Upu> yukky
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> its a good way to sanity check
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> without going insane
[22:05] <Upu> I haven't used it for about 2 years
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> if autorouter gets >90% you arent barking up the wrong tree
[22:07] <infaddict> for a PCB newbie, what software would you guys recommend for board stuff?
[22:07] <Upu> They are all crap
[22:08] <Upu> in fairness
[22:08] <Upu> Eagle has better libraries KiCAD seems to have more features
[22:08] <Upu> I've not used KiCAD but I've used, sorry struggled, with Eagle for 2 years
[22:09] <Upu> if I was starting again I'd probably pick KiCAD
[22:09] <infaddict> i've heard of Eagle and seems that file format is all over the Arduino and other micro board sites
[22:09] <Upu> yes
[22:09] <Laurenceb__> yeah KiCAD seems to be slowly getting there
[22:09] <Laurenceb__> last time i used it it was a bit of a pita
[22:10] <Upu> it seems most of the EDA programs out there aren't great
[22:10] <Upu> usability wise
[22:10] <Upu> if you pick Eagle you will immediatly have lots of boards to reference and lots of libraries
[22:12] <infaddict> ok thx might give that a try
[22:12] <infaddict> my boards will be simple stuff to begin with
[22:12] <infaddict> Arduino mini pro with associated bits and bobs
[22:13] <Upu> thats how I started
[22:13] <infaddict> can i use PCB header pins to attach the Arduino mini pro to a breadboard for testing?
[22:14] <Upu> can do whatever you want
[22:14] <Upu> afk a few
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[22:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[22:29] <Ian_> Arko is my subliminal market manager for, HONEY noticed out of the window in the first minute of his presentation; just after thinking that he needed a curtain for the sound to prevent reflections :)
[22:29] <arko> ?
[22:30] <arko> ohh
[22:30] <arko> the talk video
[22:30] <arko> hah
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[22:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-32 after 038 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PS-32
[22:53] <Vaizki> the more I go over the habhub stuff, habitat, tracker, dl-fldigi etc.. the more impressed I am. that's seriously nice work.
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[23:15] <jcoxon> Vaizki, lots of people have put a lot of work into it, its an awesome system
[23:16] <Flerb> http://puu.sh/f4CJV/89154fc459.png
[23:16] <Flerb> What's this thing?
[23:16] <Flerb> I don't know where it came from
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[23:29] <Vaizki> umm what do you mean you don't know where that came from?
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[23:46] <Flerb> can't find a 1x9 header to 1x9 header cable anywhere
[23:48] <Flerb> except saleae
[23:48] <Ian_> socket receptacle?
[23:49] <Vaizki> either I'm missing major parts of the explanation or REALLY tired
[23:49] <Vaizki> you pasted a screen capture from eagle
[23:49] <Vaizki> and now you're talking about a 9-wire cable? :)
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[23:51] <Oddstr13> That looks like part of the Arduino Leonardo shield pinout
[23:51] <Oddstr13> possibly also the latest revision of Uno
[23:52] <Oddstr13> Flerb: you're looking for a cable you can just plug straight into that socket?
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[23:53] <Flerb> Oddstr13: yah
[23:53] <Flerb> Vaizki: oh right
[23:53] <Flerb> I sorted the eagle thing out
[23:53] <Oddstr13> a 4* + a 5* might be easier to find
[23:53] <Flerb> with ratsnest
[23:54] <Flerb> About £10 from various shops
[23:54] <Flerb> which is a lot
[23:54] <Flerb> but its convinient
[23:54] <Flerb> Of course I could just get a female header
[23:54] <Flerb> and stick the logic analyser on top
[23:55] <Oddstr13> have you checked places like mouser and digikey?
[23:56] <Ian_> how about male/female http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40pcs-Dupont-Male-to-Female-Jumper-Wire-Ribbon-Cable-Pi-Pic-Breadboard-Arduino-/281200991638
[00:00] --- Tue Jan 27 2015