highaltitude.log.20150121

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[00:09] <Oddstr13> Cosa seems to be activly maintained, I guess I'll have to try it then
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[00:10] <Oddstr13> https://github.com/mikaelpatel/Cosa <-- has the driver for the remote too
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[01:19] <Oddstr13> man, why didn't I try this before?
[01:20] <Oddstr13> arduino currently pulsing the NEXA device on for 1s then off for 5s
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[01:58] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/eO0jr/92a12b90ab.png can you guys guess what this is? :P
[02:01] <SpeedEvil> A very bad drawing of a woman?
[02:04] <lz1dev> it's a bird
[02:05] <Oddstr13> pretty sure it's Radio Romania :P
[02:06] <Oddstr13> not the english broadcast tho.. at 5975 kHz
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[02:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2MRW - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=VK2MRW
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[10:24] <Tupp> is it a good idea to use the ublox7q module with a voltage divider for an arduino
[10:25] <craag> From a 5V arduino you'll still need to regulate down to 3.3V for the gps supply
[10:26] <craag> With that, and a voltage divider on arduino -> gps, you can do it yes.
[10:27] <Vaizki> I still think people should move to 3.3V arduinos
[10:27] <daveake> +1
[10:27] <Vaizki> all the nice stuff is 3.3V
[10:27] <craag> 1.8V!
[10:27] <daveake> :)
[10:28] <edmoore> i still think people should stop using arduinos
[10:29] <edmoore> actually i don't especially
[10:29] <Tupp> do I have to get also 5v from the gps module back with a LLC
[10:29] <edmoore> i wish they'd use it, understand it for what it is, and not be afraid to move on when they outgrow it, which they probably will
[10:29] <craag> Tupp: No, 3.3V will be enough to trigger it
[10:30] <Vaizki> edmoore, well at least the "IDE" is atrocious enough to push them off the platform :)
[10:30] <daveake> Yeah, though I've yet to feel the need to ditch Arduino (annoying as it is) for raw AVR, for HAB stuff
[10:30] <edmoore> and they're really poo for beginners in hab as there's only one hardware serial port
[10:30] <craag> It's a great entry level thing, but there should be encouragement arduino -> pure avr -> arm
[10:30] <edmoore> and so many people could tinker and get more confident with stuff with two serial ports
[10:30] <edmoore> one to talk to gps, one to talk to the pc
[10:30] <daveake> yup
[10:31] <edmoore> i'd say just start with arm
[10:31] <edmoore> cortex m0+ is a simpler and cleaner architecture than the avr core
[10:31] <Tupp> is it possible to upload images here
[10:31] <edmoore> much less wierd
[10:31] <edmoore> no
[10:31] <craag> Tupp: use http://imgur.com/
[10:31] <edmoore> just use imgur Tupp
[10:32] <fsphil> could you imagine irc with images. terrifying
[10:33] <lz1dev> there would a flag to disable them
[10:33] <Vaizki> yes, I ran a client for a while which autoloaded all linked images as thumbnails inline with text :D
[10:33] <Vaizki> whenever I would admit that on a channel, it would just ruin any channel with goatses etc
[10:33] <Vaizki> and no, I don't run it any more
[10:34] <lz1dev> we emcourage anyone to post a goatse image link
[10:34] <lz1dev> the perma ban would be swift
[10:34] Action: fsphil wonders how many people just googled that...
[10:34] <lz1dev> its a great way to start the morning
[10:34] <edmoore> yes we are not good at spam here
[10:34] <edmoore> although we rarely have to ban anyone
[10:34] <edmoore> usually bots
[10:35] <edmoore> or people obsessed with free energy
[10:35] <Tupp> Actually I have a LLC but doesn't work. http://imgur.com/vT8G0Z9
[10:36] <Vaizki> edmoore, what ARM would you suggest for beginners? I mean what specific board + toolchain?
[10:36] <craag> Tupp: What's the spec of your LLC?
[10:36] <craag> How much current can it supply at 3.3V?
[10:36] <edmoore> well, infact ST now have a good range of cortex m0+ parts
[10:36] <edmoore> and a discovery board to go with
[10:36] <edmoore> so basically
[10:36] <edmoore> thumb2 assembly is nice
[10:36] <edmoore> debugging is nice
[10:36] <craag> stm32 + gcc is what I'm currently using
[10:37] <fsphil> old arm assembly was nicer
[10:37] <craag> f4 today :)
[10:37] <edmoore> i started writing a tutorial for a hab flight computer in assembly (and moving on to c, and explaining linkers and compilers and so on along with way) based on the lpc810
[10:37] <edmoore> but unfrot it has so few pins that you have to sacrifice stuff to use the jtag
[10:37] <edmoore> and some of the peripherals were a bit limited
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[10:37] <Tupp> I'm not sure not given in the article if the LLC
[10:38] <edmoore> so now i'm thinking of basing it on this: http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32l0538-disco/dev-board-32bit-stm32l053c8t6/dp/2431225
[10:38] <edmoore> with a veroboard flight computer (gps+radio) to go on it
[10:38] <Vaizki> well if you have to explain jtag to someone who has Arduino as an alternative and zero background, you're going to lose :)
[10:38] <edmoore> *then* moving onto doing your own pcb design with a 1.8V version
[10:38] <edmoore> the good thing is that with the discovery you have a debugger built in
[10:38] <fsphil> is that a little eink display?
[10:38] <edmoore> Vaizki, the point is, you don't
[10:38] <edmoore> you just can explain debugging
[10:39] <craag> dev board, with epaper, for under 20 quid, sweet!
[10:39] <edmoore> debugging is a super simple concept
[10:39] <edmoore> especially if you start with assembly
[10:39] <fsphil> well, here comes another dev board...
[10:39] Action: fsphil has a good collection now
[10:39] <edmoore> and the jtag is all built in to that board
[10:39] <lz1dev> fsphil: you know what this looks like? 
[10:39] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/0a6zX0B.gifH
[10:39] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/0a6zX0B.gif
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[10:39] <edmoore> transformers, goatses in disguise
[10:39] <fsphil> thanks for ruining electronics for me
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[10:43] <Vaizki> edmoore, 99% of arduino programmers debug by printing to serial port
[10:43] <Vaizki> they're not even on the same planet as gdb or jtag :)
[10:44] <fsphil> the e-paper display seems to be just connect to SPI
[10:44] <fsphil> should be possible to get it working quickly with libopencm3
[10:45] <fsphil> I still debug on stm32 by printing to serial port :)
[10:45] <fsphil> or blinking an led
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[10:49] <Vaizki> I have one of these incoming, http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-For-Arduino-DHUS-/261472191025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce0f50231
[10:49] <Vaizki> and no it doesn't have anything to do with arduino ;)
[10:50] <craag> Have you got an SWD programmer for it?
[10:51] <HF_ATL> Vaizki, future hab tracker based on that develp board?
[10:53] <Vaizki> craag, no.. I thought STM32 chips have a factory-installed serial bootloader?
[10:54] <craag> Ah so they do
[10:54] <zyp> they do
[10:54] <nick_> fsphil: I have a small eink display like that. You can get one on an arduino shield.
[10:54] <fsphil> it's very cute
[10:54] <craag> TIL :)
[10:54] <zyp> but you're wasting your time if you're going to develop through a bootloader
[10:54] <craag> ^^ +1
[10:55] <craag> The discovery boards are a good starter for proper debugging
[10:55] <Vaizki> oh I just want to see how those modules perform. cheap as chips.
[10:55] <zyp> yeah, with the price there's no excuse to not get one
[10:56] <craag> 'how those modules perform' - they have a datasheet for that ;)
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[10:58] <Vaizki> craag, yea.. I want to get a feel for it. I can spend days on datasheets and manuals. And I would if this was a job. But it's a hobby so I'd rather just spend $5 and bang at it a bit ;)
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[10:59] <craag> 'banging at it' would be more enjoyable with a debugger!
[10:59] <fsphil> gdb is no fun
[11:01] <zyp> gdb is a lot of fun
[11:01] <craag> getting to the point of needing gdb is no fun
[11:01] <daveake> The best debugger is your brain
[11:02] <zyp> it's not a matter of needing, it's a matter of having it readily available
[11:02] <daveake> Sometimes a cup of tea helps
[11:02] <craag> Yeah, doubt the ebay board comes with one of those ;)
[11:02] <daveake> Failing that a logic analyser
[11:02] <daveake> :)
[11:03] <fsphil> it would be nice being able to see memory contents at a glance
[11:03] <fsphil> gdb does have its advantages
[11:03] <fsphil> being friendly is not one of them though
[11:03] <mattbrejza> being able to put a breakpoint is 10000% easier than having to printf at that point
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[11:04] <daveake> printf can cause problems itself
[11:04] <Vaizki> sure but I don't even know where to start looking for a debugger with SWD support
[11:04] <Vaizki> where is it on my arduino menu!? :)
[11:04] <craag> discovery boards :)
[11:04] <craag> (or the newer nucleo boards)
[11:05] <zyp> Vaizki, a $10 discovery board is a good starting point
[11:05] <Vaizki> so they provie the swd over usb? and what do I run on the development pc to debug?
[11:05] <mattbrejza> yep
[11:06] <mattbrejza> win/linux?
[11:06] <mattbrejza> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:stm32toolchain
[11:07] <fsphil> is the F0 fast enough to do rtty demodulating?
[11:07] <fsphil> with the little e-paper display that would be an ideal board to play with
[11:07] <jonsowman> yes
[11:07] <jonsowman> as demo'd on the badge at the conference
[11:07] <jonsowman> :)
[11:07] <zyp> it's the L0 that comes with the epaper display
[11:07] <fsphil> ah, couldn't remember what ic that was
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[11:07] <jonsowman> fsphil: f030
[11:08] <fsphil> oh L0 .. what's different between that an the F0?
[11:08] <jonsowman> the 70p tssop-20 one
[11:08] <zyp> L is low-power series
[11:08] <fsphil> ah
[11:08] <fsphil> so many codes
[11:08] <jonsowman> L0's are M0+, F0s are M0
[11:08] <mattbrejza> the conference f0 could do rtty decode while running at 1/6th speed
[11:08] <fsphil> mmmm greyscale ssdv decoding
[11:08] <jonsowman> because *someone* forgot to configure the pll properly
[11:08] <jonsowman> ;)
[11:09] <mattbrejza> this was my first time on locm3 ;)
[11:09] <jonsowman> lol
[11:09] <zyp> F030 is rated for 48 MHz, L0 is only rated for 32 MHz
[11:09] <fsphil> still many mhz
[11:09] <jonsowman> 'tis
[11:09] <fsphil> ordered some
[11:10] <fsphil> thanks edmoore
[11:11] <Vaizki> mattbrejza, ok thanks for the toolchain intro. so apparently there's an open source gdb server which talks to the st-link on the board over usb?
[11:11] <zyp> that is correct
[11:11] <Vaizki> and I just start gdb under my project and connect to the server
[11:11] <zyp> guide mentions texane/stlink, but word is that openocd does a better job nowadays
[11:12] <Vaizki> ok.. but yea if you want to attract Arduino users, there needs to be a prerolled package to download & run :)
[11:12] <Vaizki> I can do that stuff in the guides, no problem
[11:13] <Vaizki> but my 14yo old son with his gaming pc and arduino trinkets? don't think so
[11:13] <fsphil> problem is people using these chips don't tend to be the same people who'd use the arduino ide
[11:14] <fsphil> L0 support in libopencm3 seems pretty new
[11:14] <zyp> the L0 is pretty new
[11:15] <mattbrejza> i think anyone who can program an arduino could follow the instructions on that page to setup an ARM environment tbh
[11:16] <fsphil> bash: apt-get: command not found :)
[11:16] <Vaizki> fsphil, sure.. we kinda started on this discussion when edmoore said people should start with ARM
[11:16] <Vaizki> and now looking at the toolchains etc, it's clearly a lot more involved than getting your led blinking with arduino
[11:17] <mattbrejza> yea but its worth it
[11:18] <jonsowman> definitely worth it
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[11:18] <jonsowman> providing your application is suitable
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[11:18] <jonsowman> if you just want to flash an LED then who cares
[11:19] <zyp> if you just want to flash a LED, you could use a 555 timer
[11:19] <jonsowman> exactly
[11:19] <jonsowman> in fact I would go as far as to say you should use a 555 timer
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[11:19] <Vaizki> :d
[11:19] <daveake> 555, saviour of the universe
[11:19] <Vaizki> you know what I mean..
[11:19] <daveake> and failed mots
[11:20] <craag> bringer of vcc spikes
[11:20] <jonsowman> daveake: someone added one-touch indicators to the 406 coupe using one
[11:20] <daveake> :-)
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[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-2 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-2
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[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LI4m0 - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=LI4m0
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[11:42] <edmoore> sorry was with customer
[11:42] <edmoore> i actually want to do arm+assembly precisely because you can build up the tool chain
[11:43] <edmoore> the chain doesn't have many links if you start with a single assembly file
[11:43] <edmoore> and you understand what each link in the chain does
[11:43] <craag> I'd really enjoy that
[11:43] <edmoore> what puts people off with the standard cry of 'argh! toolchain! run!' is that they don't understand toolcahins, they're just a black box that has loads of variables but they just want to 'work' rather than 'not work'
[11:43] <craag> I do need to spend more time reading and learning, less time trying to wing it.
[11:44] <edmoore> i have definitely been guilty of the above too
[11:44] <edmoore> especially in my early days of arm
[11:44] <edmoore> but now i'm a lot happier since it's a lot less mysterious
[11:46] <edmoore> and you get rid of disconnects between 'the ram starts at 0xF000 on this device and the flash from 0x10000' and 'char *mystring = "hello i am a string";'
[11:46] <edmoore> because you understand what a linker script is
[11:46] <edmoore> and suddenly you understand where things like that string go on the chip and why
[11:46] <edmoore> and you can control it
[11:47] <edmoore> basically it's one of those instances where this way of doing things today is as a result of 40 years of evolution and the best way to learn it (I think) is to take a tour through those 40 years yourself (by starting with assy and building up) to understand why things are as they are
[11:48] <edmoore> rather than just have the whole lot dumped on your desk as one monolithic 'toolchain'
[11:48] <edmoore> here endeth the lesson
[11:48] <edmoore> thanks be to gnu tools
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[11:52] <Vaizki> btw, if I wanted to try ot dl-fldigi tracking.. I don't have a callsign as I'm not a HAM. and the software complains about it not being set.
[11:52] <craag> 'Vaizki' will be fine
[11:53] <Vaizki> what should I use? my teenage son's callsign? :)
[11:53] <craag> it's jsut your name on the map
[11:53] <Vaizki> right
[11:54] <edmoore> yep you don't need a license to receive
[11:54] <edmoore> so go for it
[11:55] <Vaizki> then just fire up SDR software and route audio to dl-fldigi, select the right band..
[11:55] <Vaizki> how much bandwidth can dl-fldigi handle?
[11:55] <edmoore> 3khz
[11:55] <edmoore> standard ham audio passband
[11:56] <Vaizki> yea that would explain the scale from 0 to 3000 on the gui...
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[11:56] <edmoore> exactaru
[11:56] <Vaizki> so I basically set bandwidth to 3kHz in SDR# or something?
[11:57] <edmoore> i've never used sdr# so i'm little use to you
[11:57] <edmoore> and not being a management consultant i'll tell you that up front rather than bullshitting and sending an invoice
[11:57] <Vaizki> well in any sdr, I'd just grab the right 3kHz of bandwidth and send it down to dl-fldigi audio?
[11:59] <Vaizki> I can operate SDR# etc, just wondering how this all ties together.
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[12:00] <fsphil> the default usb bandwidth will be fine
[12:00] <fsphil> sdr# will probably pick something about 3khz anyway
[12:14] <Vaizki> aye, 2.4kHz seems to be default for USB
[12:22] <Laurenceb> http://www.arrl.org/news/australian-pico-balloon-piques-ham-radio-interest
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[12:32] <x-f_> naughty penguins downed PS-30!
[12:33] <Laurenceb> it looked like weather to me
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[12:46] <Laurenceb> anyone know if HackRf One is going to be in stock anywhere soon?
[12:46] <Laurenceb> or is it a case of waiting a month or two?
[12:47] <Vaizki> ok I got all the bits working here. RTL-SDR + SDR# + dl-fldigi + habitat
[12:49] <Vaizki> was scratching my head for a while there until I discovered the --hab commandline parameter ;)
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[13:19] <LunarWork> hello
[13:25] <edmoore> these toggle switch guards (space shuttle repro) are quite sexy https://www.dropbox.com/s/ci3b1zwzhdp78a7/2015-01-21%2012.39.07.jpg?dl=0
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[13:42] <LunarWork> they are nice, any place to buy them?
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[14:01] <craag> woops http://quelab.net/blog/18721/solar-tetroon-launch/
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[14:04] <LunarWork> ohhh
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[14:12] <daveake> oops
[14:13] <Vaizki> well it worked!
[14:15] <Vaizki> it's a nice project but somehow I just don't see solar balloons catching on....
[14:17] <craag> There's a fair few people who are quite serious about it
[14:17] <craag> altitude-triggered venting mechanisms and the like
[14:17] <craag> We had a talk on it at the UKHAS conf
[14:19] <Vaizki> venting? if it goes too high?
[14:19] <Vaizki> I'd think that it would just run out of lift
[14:20] <craag> if it goes too high then I believe it cools and can suffer terminal descent
[14:20] <Vaizki> ah.. and rain? those things are huge
[14:21] <Vaizki> you have to coat it with hydrophobic stuff?
[14:21] <craag> I think there was something about that yeah
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[16:07] <paul_HAB-P> Oh the never ending hilarity that is RF connectors.
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[16:17] <Tupp> the ublox modules need a power supply of 1.8 - 3.6 v, what's better, being close to 3.6 or 1.8
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[16:17] <Laurenceb> trollin
[16:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.torquinggroup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143&start=10#p3186
[16:18] <edmoore> paul_HAB-P, i like connectors
[16:18] <edmoore> ama
[16:19] <paul_HAB-P> Perhaps I meant adapters - every dongle has a different connector :s
[16:21] <Tupp> the ublox modules need a power supply of 1.8 - 3.6 v, what's better, being close to 3.6 or 1.8
[16:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Better in what sense, the chip works between those levels.
[16:22] <craag> Tupp: With max7+ it doesn't matter.
[16:22] <craag> WHichever is easier for your circuit :)
[16:23] <Tupp> I'm really duff in this matter but should I use small resistant (220) or big resistants(10k ) for my voltage divider
[16:25] <craag> 10K would be fine I think
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> where are you using this divider ?
[16:27] <Tupp> for the ublox7q and the arduino
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[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> where does the ublox7 need a divider?
[16:29] <Tupp> I'm using a 5V Arduino for the 3.6V ublox
[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah so your trying droppig the o/p voltages between the two devices then ?
[16:30] <HF_ATL> better to use a voltage regulator than a voltage divider for power
[16:31] <Tupp> yes. I also have a LLC but it doesn't work somehow
[16:32] <Tupp> for the resistors. do large resistors create more heat?
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is this for the powering the chips or simply driving the I/O lines between the two chips ?
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[16:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Can you not use a 3.3volt arduino ?
[16:34] <HF_ATL> for a constant voltage, more R means less heat
[16:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> to high resistors and you not getting enough curent through, the ublox uses up to 40mA
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[16:44] Nick change: nickjohnson_ -> nickjohnson
[16:45] <Tupp> why isnt it good to use the 3.3v of an arduino uno to power the ublox modules
[16:45] <edmoore> Tupp, just to make sure this comes through loud and clear as it got sort of lost further up - you definitely, definitely, definitely are not going to be powering your ublox with 3.3V by using a potential divider to make 3.3V from 5V
[16:46] <Tupp> ok
[16:46] <edmoore> Tuyou don't want to use the 3.3V output on the uno because it's rated to only 50mA
[16:47] <edmoore> and the ublox can use more than that when acquiring
[16:48] <edmoore> you really are going to need a proper regulator to produce 3.3V from 5V if you want to use your 5V uno
[16:51] <Tupp> I have a LLC from sparkfun but doesnt want to work? I tried it this way http://imgur.com/79UcSlS. Are there any components in the Uno Starter Kit
[16:52] <Miek> the level converter doesn't supply power to the other side, you need to do that yourself
[16:53] <Tupp> I dont see why
[16:53] <edmoore> ok
[16:53] <edmoore> there is now power going across
[16:54] <edmoore> that thing you bought doesn't convert any reasonable power
[16:54] <edmoore> it just allows two separately powered sides to talk to each other with digital signals
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[16:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The LLC handles ONLY the logic level signals (I/O) not the power lines.
[16:55] <edmoore> the power lines are your job
[16:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You need a seperate voltage regulator to drop from 5V to 3.3v for the power to the ublox module
[16:56] <Tupp> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-logic-level-converter?_ga=1.203595222.735325123.1421856084
[16:56] <Tupp> says something different.
[16:57] <edmoore> no it doesn't
[16:57] <edmoore> yopu're wrong
[16:57] <edmoore> and you should stop disagreeing with people here because this is trivial stuff and it's you that's not understanding it, not that everything else is wrong
[16:58] <edmoore> so with that in mind, let's get you sorted
[16:58] <Miek> Tupp: https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/r/600-600/assets/0/c/2/0/4/52276df2757b7f7f218b4569.png notice the 3v3 wire
[16:58] <mbales___> (red and white wire)
[16:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The Red/white dashed wire supplies 3.3v from the Arduino to the other board - BUT for the Ublox it draws too much power hence you need a seperate regulator
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[17:00] <craag> That is a confusing little circuit board
[17:00] <mbales___> i used one once with little success
[17:00] <mbales___> just ended up making my own
[17:01] <craag> I saw it on his picture earlier and assumed HV/LV was a regulator (logical thinkg to have alongside tx/rx
[17:01] <LunarWork> see you all later :)
[17:02] <craag> My bad for making assumptions earlier that may have confused you Tupp. Everyone else is right.
[17:03] <Tupp> I didn't want to say you're wrong. Sorry for this.
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[17:04] <craag> You can use 10K in a voltage divider for the Arduino TX => ublox RX
[17:04] <craag> but Vcc does need a 100mA+ 3.3V regulator
[17:04] <Tupp> what voltage regulator would you recommend
[17:05] <craag> mcp1703 is one
[17:05] <Tupp> thanks:)
[17:05] <craag> mcp1703-3302 is the part code for the 3.3V one
[17:06] <craag> err hang on, that doesn't come in a breadboard-friendly package
[17:07] <craag> MCP1700 comes in a TO-92, but is only rated to 6V input, so won't work if you want to run the whole thing off 4xAA batteries
[17:08] <daveake> Yeah that's an annoying limitation. Not that it's stopped me using 4 AAs with it ... :/
[17:08] <mbales___> why not just a 78XX
[17:08] <daveake> Very low dropout
[17:08] <mbales___> ah makes sense
[17:09] <craag> I use mcp1700 for ukhasnet, 3xAA -> 3.3V
[17:09] <daveake> I have a low opinion of LDOs where "Low" is actually a volt or so
[17:11] <craag> Tupp: LM7803 would work for this, as you're already using 5V for the arduino, so the dropout isn't such an issue.
[17:11] <craag> Ideally though. 3.3V arduino ;)
[17:11] <mbales___> lm3480 is what i;ve been using but im not sure it has a bradboard friendly version
[17:15] <Tupp> thanks
[17:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> is there any difference in using a crystall ocillator or a resonator for a 328?
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[17:19] <mbales___> crystals are more accurate and tempurature stable
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[17:20] <mbales___> also some oscillators will require more external components
[17:21] <SA6BSS-Mike> oki
[17:22] <mbales___> you can also get temperature controlled oscillators that will use more power but keep the oscillator stable at a range of temps
[17:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> but does the 328 care if the freq goes up or down a couple of 10hz
[17:23] <mbales___> no, but if you have code that is very time dependent then it will matter
[17:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah
[17:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[17:24] <daveake> e.g. RTTY, GPS serial
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[17:24] <daveake> Though you'd have to be about by something approaching 5%
[17:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, tnx good info
[17:24] <mattbrejza> the cheap resonators should be fine
[17:24] <mbales___> yeah a softserial would likely be a bit upset by too much variation in the clock
[17:24] <mattbrejza> but helpfully, they tell you how much they drift ;)
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[17:25] <daveake> and h/w serial
[17:25] <daveake> same clock
[17:25] <mbales___> i havent tested it but it seems like the hardware serial at 9600 baud would care less than the softserial at the same speed because of the code overhead
[17:26] <mbales___> its time to get out the cold soak test chamber and see what happens
[17:26] <mattbrejza> :/
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[17:26] <daveake> Everything comes from the same clock source so everything is out by the same amount
[17:27] <mbales___> i agree, but without testing it just seems like the hardware serial would be more robust to changes
[17:28] <daveake> Whether the s/w serial is done by timer interrupt or counting clock cycles, it's still the same reference
[17:29] <craag> The h/w serial could if it clocked off the incoming data, but I doubt it does
[17:29] <daveake> On a 328? Nope
[17:30] <craag> I imagine it just does what softwareserial does, sampling every x ms, but in hw not code.
[17:30] <mbales___> worry not, ill set up the cold soak this weekend and see what happens
[17:30] <daveake> yup just samples
[17:30] <craag> Would be interesting to see!
[17:30] <daveake> in theory in the middle of the cycle
[17:30] <mbales___> oh there will be data posted
[17:31] <daveake> http://jorisvr.nl/arduino_frequency.html
[17:32] <daveake> Sorry that doesn't mention temperature ignore me :)
[17:32] <mbales___> interesting none the less
[17:32] <daveake> ok, it does, in the chart
[17:32] <mbales___> yeah just saw that too
[17:33] <mbales___> doesnt really say if it breaks things though
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[17:41] <daveake> Well it's a range of 4500Hz in 30 degrees, so about 0.028%.
[17:41] <daveake> Not worth worrying about
[17:43] <mbales___> hes also going up in temp rather than down
[17:44] <daveake> It'd need a heck of a curve to be a problem when colder
[17:44] <daveake> Anyway, get a proper spec for your device, or measure it
[17:45] <mbales___> http://blog.arduino.cc/2013/08/29/overclocking-arduino-with-liquid-nitrogen/
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[17:50] <mbales___> well outside of what would be seen on a balloon
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[17:51] <edmoore> Tupp, sorry for being a bit snappy earlier
[17:52] <edmoore> work frustrations
[17:52] <mbales___> its only rocket science
[17:53] <edmoore> someone designed something very complicated
[17:53] <edmoore> that involved detaching lots of hoses and sensors
[17:54] <daveake> Complicated is often a bad start
[17:54] <edmoore> and forklifting about 2 tonnes of stuff out of a testbay
[17:54] <edmoore> and i couldn't understand why we didn't replace the entire scheme with a palette weighing scale for £300 that lets you leave everything in place
[17:55] <edmoore> it turns out there was no good reason and the person designing it was just not thinking
[17:55] <edmoore> and i find that annoying
[17:55] <daveake> pallet
[17:55] <daveake> sorry :)
[17:55] <edmoore> (catching and measuring mass flow of coolant water from an engine, about 40kg/sec)
[17:55] <edmoore> sorry yes
[17:56] <edmoore> they wanted to dangle everything from a forklift with a big load cell between a custom-made harness and the forlift forks
[17:57] <mbales___> that seems complicated
[17:57] <edmoore> which would need to be removed from the test cell to calibrate the discharge orifi
[17:57] <edmoore> anyway, details
[17:57] <edmoore> point is i think that idea is now abandoned and sense prevails
[17:58] <daveake> I've had arguments before over proposals to vastly complicate something without having a proof that it will be worth the effort
[17:58] <daveake> I don't mind doing complicated when it's necessary but I really really hate doing it when it isn't
[17:58] <edmoore> yes same
[17:59] <edmoore> we just needed to weigh a big tank of water at a few tens of hz during a burn
[17:59] <edmoore> person who's idea this was no longer works here (phew)
[18:00] <daveake> whose
[18:00] <daveake> sorry I'm on a roll
[18:01] <edmoore> typing suffers with annoyance
[18:02] <edmoore> speaking of annoyance, tomorrow i'm visiting the indian visa applications centre, and i've been lead to believe that it's a place not for the impatient
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[18:04] <mbales___> who doesnt enjoy paperwork
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[18:06] <edmoore> i must supply two photographs of myself (printed by a colour laser or colour inkjet printer, or on glossy or matt analogue photographic paper)
[18:06] <edmoore> the photo must have 'continuous tone quality' whatever that is
[18:06] <mbales___> is there another kind of paper?
[18:07] <mattbrejza> analgoue paper?
[18:07] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Local post office offers (or used to offer) "Indian visa photos" ...
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[18:08] <daveake> Inkjet/laser is mutually incompatible with continuous tone quality
[18:08] <edmoore> it must show from the top of my head to the bottom of my chin and be precisely 2 inches by 2 inches, square, and my eyes must lie between 1.something and 1.>something inches within that
[18:08] <daveake> Latter needs a dye sub printer not something printing dots of a few colours
[18:08] <edmoore> if i've ever even met someone from pakistan, i'm stuffed
[18:09] <mattbrejza> and if your face doesnt fit in those dimensions youre not allowed in the country
[18:09] <daveake> and no smiliing or glasses
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[18:09] <edmoore> let alone if i am from pakistan, or my parents, or my grandparents
[18:09] <daveake> I just did some for Saudi; similar daft rules
[18:09] <mbales___> i once bought a newspaper from a pakistani country, does that count?
[18:09] <daveake> Boxes for religion and sect
[18:09] <daveake> I was brief in those
[18:10] <mbales___> jedi, light
[18:10] <edmoore> yes i put 'other: none' in my religion bit
[18:10] <LazyLeopard> Indian bureaucrats have clearly mastered the art of specifying things to stupid levels of unattainability... ;)
[18:10] <daveake> I think we're giving them the right to murder us, but hey ho
[18:10] <edmoore> as not having a religion wasn't an option in their drop-down menu
[18:11] <mbales___> have you ever tried butter& or PCP?
[18:11] <daveake> I have a particular smile which I bring out when they show me the hotel room and point out where the arrow to Mecca is located
[18:13] <daveake> Then you open the fridge to find choccy bars, coke and cigarettes, but no beer. Then sob.
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[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[19:24] <storm_home> hi all
[19:25] <edmoore> greetings storm_
[19:25] <edmoore> storm_home
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[20:35] <Laurenceb__> lol this is actually informative
[20:35] <Laurenceb__> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/high-altitude-balloon-videos
[20:36] <daveake> meh, rubbish, none of mine listed :/
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[20:54] <mcbcurator> Congrats on getting the PITS boards shipped, upu and daveake
[20:55] <Upu> thx mcbcurator
[20:55] <mcbcurator> mine's working fine (mostly). Still trying to work out why it doesn't finish booting under battery power. Just tried that today for the first time.
[20:56] <Upu> this the old one or the new one ?
[20:56] <mcbcurator> new one
[20:56] <Upu> thats odd
[20:57] <Upu> do you have a multimeter ?
[20:57] <mcbcurator> Not handy
[20:57] <Upu> ok
[20:57] <Upu> I tested them all before I shipped them
[20:57] <mcbcurator> I have to connect it to the head to see what it's saying
[20:57] <Upu> on batteries
[20:57] <Upu> ok yeah can you see where it gets too ?
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[21:00] <Vaizki> multimeter not handy? it's a bot!
[21:00] <Vaizki> failed the captcha
[21:00] <mcbcurator> haha
[21:00] <mcbcurator> Yeah, I'll take a look. It's odd. Works 100% fine under usb power on the Pi board. Works for about 5 seconds on battery with strong lights... then goes dead.
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[21:03] <Vaizki> what battery?
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[21:04] <mcbcurator> The 4x AA battery package included with PITS
[21:04] <tweetBot> @thecraag: My 3D Printed Canon Camera Battery 'Emulator' made it onto @hackaday !! http://t.co/BWjYxzwKLp Printed on @MakeSoton 's lulzbot taz #ukhas
[21:05] <Vaizki> mcbcurator: NiMH or primaries?
[21:05] <mcbcurator> alkaline for ground testing. will use primaries for flight
[21:05] <Vaizki> alkaline are primaries?
[21:05] <mcbcurator> I thought you were referring to primary lithium. :)
[21:06] <Vaizki> naa.. just wondering if you have 4x 1.2V or 4x 1.5V
[21:06] <mcbcurator> 4x 1.5
[21:08] <Vaizki> so if you don't have DMM handy, just hook up your DSO :)
[21:09] <mcbcurator> :)
[21:11] <mcbcurator> I may run home to see what the monitor tells me. It's got me curious. (This is a work project, but for various reasons the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and wifi are all living at home)
[21:11] <Upu> the PSU works down to 2.8V input
[21:12] <Upu> Do you have access to a multimeter ?
[21:12] <Upu> I'm interested to know if the voltage is dropping when it boots
[21:12] <Upu> its very odd as it worked here
[21:13] <Upu> I'll bring a few home tommorrow
[21:13] <Upu> and see if I can replicate that behaviour
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[21:15] <Babs_> ping upu
[21:15] <Upu> o7
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[21:16] <mcbcurator> Lost connection there. Don't know if my message came through.
[21:16] <Upu> what was the last thinkyou saw ?
[21:17] <Upu> thing
[21:21] <mcbcurator> I asked if one can power off both USB and PITS battery power. I wondered if the PITS battery can run it, if not boot it. I don't know whether having voltage connected to both is harmful.
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[21:25] <Upu> if its not booting it there is a fault
[21:25] <Upu> which I need to fix however I did test them before sending ofc
[21:25] <Upu> I'll check a few boards tommorrow
[21:25] <Upu> that PSU can supply 2.5A in theory
[21:26] <mcbcurator> I wonder if the fault is with the pi or the pits?
[21:26] <Upu> thats what I need to check but I don't have one here
[21:28] <mcbcurator> I installed raspbian through noobs instead of a direct image. I'm going to re-do that anyway in the next day or two because the pits config isn't showing up in windows. I don't suppose that could have anything to do with my power problems.
[21:29] <Upu> no don't think so
[21:29] <Upu> I just need to check a few boards booting with my test stuff here
[21:29] <mcbcurator> I couldn't imagine so. Well, I've got until mid-March to get all this sorted. And longer if necessary, as obviously there's no flight without working avionics.
[21:29] <Vaizki> do you have anything connected to pi usb or hdmi?
[21:30] <mcbcurator> No. Absolutely nothing.
[21:31] <mcbcurator> Pi, PITS board, GPS antenna and stubby radio antenna. That's all.
[21:34] <Upu> I'll bring a few home with me tommorrow so I can test exactly what your doing and I have a scope too
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[22:10] <Laurenceb__> has anyone here used si446x for uplink?
[22:10] <Laurenceb__> i.e. uplink to one of them
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[22:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_SKY_LORA - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_LORA
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[22:20] <tweetBot> @daveake: How to make a LoRa gateway http://t.co/CSck0U2D3B #UKHAS
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[22:27] <mattbrejza> daveake: youre config screen looks liek a bios screen ;)
[22:27] <daveake> Thanks :)
[22:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK2MRW after 0320 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/#!qm=All&q=VK2MRW
[22:27] <craag> I'd like to test my Web UI gateway at some point :)
[22:28] <craag> Mostly coded up, but no payload yet :P
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[22:29] <craag> As much as it looks nice though, I'll probably just find myself using modified versions of yours
[22:29] <craag> habpackified hopefully
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[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:23] <paul_HAB-P> Digging shiny sdr.
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[00:00] --- Thu Jan 22 2015