highaltitude.log.20150108

[00:02] <paul_HAB-P> ok thats enough for me - thanks all and later! :-)
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[00:07] <gonzo_nb> the reason the gsm antenna makes the interference go away, is it's just a vert inefficient antenna for 434mhz. So you are just hearing less of everythung
[00:07] <gonzo_nb> the FCDpro+ has filters, so any in terference is probably real local signals. Not supprising in an urban environment
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[00:13] <fsphil> the original FCD is horrible for that
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[00:15] <gonzo_nb> it was a bare tv tuner chip front end
[00:16] <gonzo_nb> but was the first of it's kind, so was a revalation
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[02:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LU6DNA_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=LU6DNA_chase
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[06:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03E29AJP-11 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=E29AJP-11
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[09:46] <paul_HAB-P> Hey guys, do you know the Yagi design calculator link in the wiki is dead... (just for info)
[09:46] <paul_HAB-P> Linked from this page: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?s[]=yagi
[09:46] <craag> correct it then :)
[09:47] <fsphil> haha
[09:47] <edmoore> there are many yagi designs calculators and designs on the web
[09:47] <fsphil> they all give different answers
[09:47] <paul_HAB-P> oh god. lol different answer lol
[09:51] <craag> From the range of them, I think if you get it in the right ballpark, you'll be fine.
[09:53] <craag> I made the worst 2m 4-ele a few years back, with threaded rod and PVC pipe, was bent and corkscrewed, worked better than someone else's store-bought :)
[09:53] <fsphil> I made a pretty ugly yagi for TV years ago, out of thick cardboard
[09:54] <fsphil> worked better than it should have
[09:54] <fsphil> speaker wire for the elements
[09:56] <paul_HAB-P> I have to say, I started reading the design guides and have to learn a whole new language lol
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[09:58] <edmoore> yep
[09:58] <edmoore> the world of radio can be confusing
[09:58] <edmoore> but fascinating
[10:00] <paul_HAB-P> :)
[10:00] <freezies> 'They climbed into the Renault Clio telling bystanders: You can tell the media were from al-Qaida in Yemen.' doesn't seem confusing..Just looks like old gladio or whatever Propaganda
[10:01] <freezies> trying to serve interests of idiots greedy over iraq or yemen or who/where/Eva
[10:01] <freezies> oh well
[10:01] <daveake> ahem wrong channel?
[10:01] <freezies> (speaking of overviews)
[10:01] <freezies> the very correct chan @ the mo
[10:01] <freezies> thanks for asking howevA
[10:02] <daveake> I wasn't asking
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[10:22] <freezies> k sure
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[10:32] <HF_ATL> I have used this calculator for few yagi design for different frequencies with good results. You can detail your intended way of boom type,elements diameters,shapes,etc
[10:32] <HF_ATL> http://www.vk5dj.com/yagi.html
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[10:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DO6SOM-8 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=DO6SOM-8
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[10:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LORA1 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=LORA1
[10:57] <amell> Is there a pic of this PS-30 payload anywhere? would like to see the antenna
[10:59] <amell> http://picospace.net/?p=519
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[11:02] <Darkside> amell: andy is a bit secretive about his payloads..
[11:02] <amell> ok. wondering if its a long trailing antenna or something else.
[11:03] <edmoore> lest people he finds out the secret recipe of using a micronctroller and a gps chipset and a radio
[11:03] <Darkside> yeah
[11:03] Action: daveake takes note
[11:03] <Darkside> edmoore: exactly
[11:03] <Darkside> he's a bit odd about it all
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[11:04] <fsphil> and the super secret data mode
[11:04] <amell> 10Mhz is a pretty long piece of wire.
[11:04] <Darkside> fsphil: well, he did implement WSPR and JT65
[11:04] <fsphil> does not compute
[11:05] <Darkside> which isn't particularly easy
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[11:05] <fsphil> wspr isn't too bad, no idea about jt65
[11:05] <Maxell> jt65 is sort of wspr right?
[11:06] <Darkside> not really, no
[11:06] <fsphil> same developer
[11:06] <Maxell> jt9 is wspir?
[11:06] <Darkside> no...
[11:06] <Darkside> WSPR is WSPR
[11:06] <Darkside> the JT modes are a different family
[11:06] <Maxell> Ah.
[11:07] <Maxell> So I have only worked the JT65 mode, with wsjtx client.
[11:08] <amell> Seems to be on 10 and 14Mhz (30 and 20m) which implies a pretty big antenna, want to know if its radial, part of the balloon or what. Any idea what the balloon neck lift/type is?
[11:08] <fsphil> doesn't have to be a big antenna
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[11:09] <fsphil> if they're willing to accept some loss of performance
[11:09] <edmoore> indeed
[11:09] <amell> sure, but. at these distances for WSPR, it has to be at least ¼ wave?
[11:09] <edmoore> not that doing a 10m dipole would be especially hard on a hab
[11:09] <fsphil> nah, I've got stupid distances with wspr on stupid antennas
[11:09] <Darkside> i've dlown a 40m dipole
[11:09] <Darkside> flown*
[11:10] <Darkside> i'm expecting he's using a trapped dipole
[11:10] <amell> how long was that?
[11:10] <Darkside> amell: 20m long..
[11:10] <fsphil> thin copper wire would do
[11:10] <amell> as long as a piece of string i guess lol
[11:10] <Darkside> i.e. a half-wave dipole for 7MHz
[11:10] <Darkside> well no
[11:10] <Darkside> a half-wave dipole is just that - a half wavelength long
[11:10] <amell> so just use copper wire instead of string for attaching payload
[11:10] <Darkside> pretty much
[11:11] <Darkside> i used thin copper wire running along the string
[11:11] <Darkside> as my payload was heavy, and i didnt want the copper to stretch
[11:11] <amell> wouldnt this attract lightning?
[11:11] <Darkside> but with these tiny payloads, you just about could use the wire instead of string
[11:11] <edmoore> why would it attract lightning?
[11:11] <amell> in much the same way as an airliner does.
[11:12] <Darkside> its not like the antenna is grounded
[11:12] <amell> yes, i know theres no route to ground but
[11:14] <RikusW> 50m of wire might prove to be a shorter path to ground, until its vaporized...
[11:14] <edmoore> aeroplanes tend to be struck as they build up static from friction with the air they're moving through
[11:14] <edmoore> balloons have basically zero airspeed
[11:15] <edmoore> they'll be at the same potential as everythibng around them
[11:15] <amell> apart from the battery...
[11:15] <edmoore> unless you really dump some high rf into your dipole to get a large pd between top and bottom
[11:15] <edmoore> i don't think 3V is goping to make a difference amell ;)
[11:15] <edmoore> 3000V maybe
[11:15] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE
[11:16] <fsphil> balloons also spend most of their time above storms
[11:16] <fsphil> less risky up there
[11:16] <fsphil> lightning tends to go between clouds, and sometimes the ground
[11:16] <fsphil> sprites being the exception
[11:19] <edmoore> i would love to fly a sprite detector on a hab
[11:19] <edmoore> i did wonder about it
[11:20] <edmoore> a sort of terahedron of detectors on long arms with a very fast capture system that could detect what direction the particle shower comes from
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[11:26] <fsphil> sprites are odd things. they look like a cluster of small lightning bolts up close
[11:27] <fsphil> probably very high voltage but low current. might be enough to kill the payload
[11:27] <gonzo__> you need a teslar coil to test with
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> good explanation on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_%28lightning%29
[11:28] <fsphil> the odds of getting the payload over one has got to be a very small number
[11:29] <fsphil> lightning on mars, if it happens, should be similar
[11:30] <fsphil> oh looks like a nasa balloon got hit by one
[11:35] <paul_HAB-P> @HF_ATL: Thanks!
[11:36] <HF_ATL> you're welcome ;)
[11:36] <HF_ATL> the sw is free and very easy to use
[11:56] <paul_HAB-P> This looks really handy! I have a bunch of perspex upstairs so was thinking of making a boom / pistol grip with that (for a portable yagi)...
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[12:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.microscoutcam.com/medigus-products/micro-scoutcam-cameras-for-industrial-applications
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[12:28] Nick change: stryx`_ -> stryx`
[12:32] <paul_HAB-P> Sorry for noob question: In a yagi, is the reflector connected to earth?
[12:33] <craag> doesn't matter
[12:33] <craag> if your boom is conductive, make sure the driven element is insulated from it
[12:33] <craag> that's the only one that matters
[12:34] <craag> (boom is at 0v potential theoretically, due to dipole voltage pattern)
[12:40] <paul_HAB-P> Thanks. Thinking about the driven element, the yagi app mentions both a folded or unfolded version - but doesnt show any details of how these are fed (are they typically tapped at the center?)
[12:42] <craag> yep
[12:43] <craag> they're two 1/4wave length poles fed at the center
[12:43] <craag> folded connects them together in a loop
[12:43] <craag> which increases the impedance, but then you can lower the impedance back to 50 ohms by putting the first director very close
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> All sorts of feed arrangments depending on style of construction and if folded or not read up on Balun's but for a simple Rx aerial just connect the co-ax directly too the two halfs!
[12:44] <craag> (which allows the yagi to be smaller for the same number of elements)
[12:44] <paul_HAB-P> But do I connect sheath to the opposite end of the 1/4 wave?
[12:44] <craag> to the other 1/4wave
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> inner to one side outer (sheath) to the other
[12:44] <craag> so in the middle, coax in, inner to one, sheath to the other
[12:44] <craag> exactly :)
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> :)
[12:45] <paul_HAB-P> Awesome - thats what I wasnt getting!
[12:45] <craag> And as Geoff says, lots of places will tell you you need a balun
[12:45] <paul_HAB-P> Time for a trip to great mills later :)
[12:45] <craag> don't bother for a simple receive antenna at this frequency
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Another way is a delta feed so the driven element is one length. and the co-ax feeds across a section of it visually forming a Delta
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> in the middle of course
[12:46] <paul_HAB-P> Right time to do some background reading on Feeding Yagis :-) Thanks for all your help!
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.g4nsj.co.uk/delta.shtml
[12:47] <paul_HAB-P> Super thanks!
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://lipcsey.gportal.hu/portal/lipcsey/upload/2088_1274194047_02956.pdf
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> figure 16.3 in the above is all you need ;-)
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[12:54] <paul_HAB-P> You know that delta feed page made me feel so much better about myself :)
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I like ther idea as its always mounting the two 1/4 waves thats a problem
[13:07] <paul_HAB-P> yep i guess when you get to big / heavy lumps of cable, keeping structural integrity is essential. Now, can I replace the washing line with something conductive?
[13:07] <paul_HAB-P> and would she notice?
[13:08] <craag> I've used a metal-core washing line for HF
[13:09] <craag> It did work, but I only had a single length, so it was pants compared to my wire dipole
[13:09] <craag> (washing line of ~1/4 wavelength)
[13:10] <paul_HAB-P> Ok - coming back to the Yagi - looking at the folded dipole, the entire thing seems to be a single lump of metal rather than 2 searate aerials...
[13:11] <craag> yes
[13:11] <Reb-SM0ULC> a lump :)
[13:11] <Laurenceb> http://tesladownunder.com/LEDBIKEnoPhotoshop.jpg
[13:12] <craag> single piece bent rough in a flat almost-loop
[13:12] <craag> then fed across the gap same way as the 2 pieces
[13:12] <paul_HAB-P> right so I would then connect the sheath to the the 2 almost meeting ends of the loop...
[13:12] <paul_HAB-P> ?
[13:12] <craag> sheath to one, inner to the other
[13:13] <paul_HAB-P> ah so its not center fed, its end fed...
[13:13] <craag> err center in the rf sense
[13:13] <craag> center once it's folded
[13:14] <paul_HAB-P> center in rf sense?
[13:14] <paul_HAB-P> (sorry for being thick)
[13:14] <craag> http://n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/fdipole.gif
[13:14] <paul_HAB-P> and you wouldnt believe it but I did do avionics 20 yrs ago
[13:14] <paul_HAB-P> Perfect, thank you!!!
[13:14] <craag> pictures make it 100x easier :)
[13:15] <paul_HAB-P> so much :)
[13:18] <paul_HAB-P> So I finally got my payload on habhub last night. Had spent ages trying to get it working with the receiver using a stock DVB aerial (to no joy), only eventually sprang to life when I thought to plug in a GSM aerial - completely the wrong frequency but got rid of all the local noise :)
[13:18] <craag> probably worked as an attenuator :)
[13:19] <paul_HAB-P> yeah I think so, it was bleeding everywhere on the DVB aerial
[13:20] <paul_HAB-P> but that makes me nervous about long range - hence all the questions today - thanks for being patient
[13:20] <craag> It'd be a good idea to do a range test before the launch
[13:20] <craag> get a mate to drive your payload up to the top of hill A, you take the receiver kit up hill B
[13:21] <paul_HAB-P> Great idea - I was planning on finding a mag mount and then proving out the RX side once a balloon comes close to me...
[13:21] <mattbrejza> craag: do you have any atenuators? they would be good for 'range' testing
[13:21] <craag> yep that too - the more practice with dlfldigi the better
[13:22] <craag> mattbrejza: I can probably get hold of some BNC ones
[13:22] <mattbrejza> i was expecting to find a set on ebay for like £10 but alas, they dont seem to exist
[13:22] <craag> I've seen trays of them at ham radio rallies
[13:23] <craag> will check/raid my dads place next time I'm over
[13:23] <mattbrejza> cool
[13:23] <mattbrejza> doing a range check in a room is somewhat easier than driving for ages :D
[13:24] <craag> although have to watch for pickup in the rx
[13:25] <craag> (given I can decode a payload with a metal cap on the coax socket of my rtlsdr)
[13:26] <mattbrejza> hmm metal boxes might be required
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[13:50] <paul_HAB-P> Forgot I had this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004MYAGAY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
[13:50] <HF_ATL_> also consider puting the tx in the microwave wooven, it is a very easy way to range test
[13:51] <paul_HAB-P> Great idea! :) the look on my misses face will be priceless...
[13:51] <HF_ATL_> i know very well what you mean :)
[13:51] <paul_HAB-P> :)
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> HF_ATL_: Turning it on gives a good idea of response to EMI
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> Microwave ovens use quarter wave 'choke seals'
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> The are not very well shielded at other than 2.4GHz
[13:52] <HF_ATL_> well I really don't encourage anyone to place it inside and turn it on
[13:52] <HF_ATL_> they are
[13:52] <HF_ATL_> i have tested personally in the 1.28GHz and 433MHz
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> They're shielded in the sense that they're a metal box with a poorly fitting door.
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> They're not nearly as well shielded as at 2.4G
[13:54] <qyx_> olol emi response test
[13:54] <HF_ATL_> yes, I only mentioned it because it can be useful for a easy ground testing without having attenuators or possibility of reduce the output power of the tx, but of course would recommend highly the field tests
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Unplugging the antenna from the RX is pretty good
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> At least from a not-overloading perspective
[13:55] <HF_ATL_> it's not representative
[13:56] <qyx_> there are nice attenuators available on ebay
[13:56] <qyx_> i bought 30dB for $10
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[13:56] <craag> attenuators and metal boxes can work - but if they go wrong or aren't set up properly, you may get a false positive
[13:57] <craag> so field test should always at least be the final step
[13:57] <HF_ATL_> be careful with cheap attenuators, since you do not have any means of testing them you never know its real characteristics.
[13:57] <qyx_> no, but they gave me about -58dBm rx at 0dBm output power on rfm69
[13:58] <qyx_> two
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[13:58] <qyx_> given the tolerances of both rfm69 and attenuators it is sane result
[13:58] <HF_ATL_> in that case you're good to go
[13:59] <qyx_> but i am just being offtopic, i just saw a word "attenuator"
[13:59] <qyx_> i should read the whole previous conversation :)
[14:00] <HF_ATL_> btw, any launch foreseen for the next days?
[14:03] <daveake> Unlikely in the uk with the winds
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[15:12] <balloon1> Hi, has anybody had experience using the NTX2b and NRX2b together? I see the transmitter getting mentioned alot in tracking but nothing of the reciever? I am inexperienced and just trying to understand :)
[15:14] <daveake> Nobody bothers with the NRX2 - the range would be poor.
[15:17] <balloon1> Could it not be hooked up to a yagi antenna to boost the range, just like the transmitter is connected to an antenna on most payloads? thanks for the responce
[15:18] <daveake> It will still be nowhere near good enough
[15:19] <Upu> The Radiometrix receiver modules are designed for the European Short Range Devices (SRD) and UK Industrial / Commercial Telemetry and Telecommand market, and generally lack the sensitivity required to receive the weak signals at the balloon
[15:20] <gonzo__> also an rtl dongle receiver would be better and about 1/4 of the price
[15:21] <daveake> And lora is bettererer and cheaperer :)
[15:21] <balloon1> okay that makes sense, thank you for the fast responce guys
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[15:21] <gonzo__> aparently, ofcom have screwed up and been sending out AR licence variation letters with an error in
[15:22] <daveake> OFCOM screw up? Never ... :/
[15:22] <gonzo__> with the changes to the 2x licences, apl;lied to all. So with an M call, you can become me0xxx
[15:23] <gonzo__> some interesting new words?
[15:23] <daveake> They still haven't sent me the certificate for my reallocated M6 callsign
[15:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> They have just sent out the proposals to change received mine this morning we all have a month to reply.
[15:23] <gonzo__> what did you do with that, pass it to julie?
[15:24] <daveake> Only if it was M6CAT
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[15:24] <gonzo__> and m0www would become meowww
[15:25] <Upu> result
[15:25] <daveake> perfect :)
[15:25] <Upu> its an error
[15:25] <gonzo__> rr geoff, I didn't see the meat, just some a mention from a club member
[15:25] <daveake> Steve mentioned it on the mailing lsist
[15:25] <Upu> Steve posted to the list
[15:25] <gonzo__> replace,ents ones are on their way apparently
[15:26] <gonzo__> I only get the digest, so a day late for the party
[15:26] <daveake> They really haven't got a clue what they're doing
[15:26] <daveake> I should do a FOI request asking how many duplicate callsigns they've issued
[15:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> the layout of the schedule of changes is abysmal
[15:27] <gonzo__> ask twice
[15:27] <daveake> hah
[15:27] <Upu> lol
[15:27] <daveake> I could ask 4 times, 1 for each of my callsigns :/
[15:27] <gonzo__> 4?
[15:27] <daveake> M6 x 2, 2E0, M0
[15:28] <daveake> ofc I only have one the M6's now
[15:28] <gonzo__> you get another is you pass one on?
[15:28] <gonzo__> I could prob get 4, as I have the G0 and the old G7
[15:28] <daveake> They gave me one that they'd already issued, then (when the other guy noticed and complained) they cancelled mine and issued me a new one
[15:29] <daveake> By then I had an M0 anyway so it was all very pointless
[15:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5PGW-1 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-1
[15:30] <gonzo__> is that the 144.390 meg one?
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[15:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Nope that's KD4STH-1
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[15:46] <Ian_> Back in the day you upgraded from G7 or G8 to G0 then the G7 or G8 became history. You could only hold the one. Then they got all woolly and wonder why they are in a sh.. state,
[15:52] <gonzo__> yep, mine did. Then they started allowing you to keep both.
[15:53] <gonzo__> I resurected mine in case my daughter wanted it in future. But she did the M6 and has no interest in going further
[15:54] <gonzo__> she said that she would consider it when she started to smell of 80mtrs
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[15:56] <edmoore> i got me m6 and 2e0 at the same time and forget either callsign
[15:58] <Upu> me too but I can remember mine :)
[15:58] <edmoore> was it upu?
[15:58] <Upu> might have been :)
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[15:59] <edmoore> i did the m0 exam the first available slot after getting the m6/2e0(i think you had to wait a fortnight or something?) so i never even used or wrote the callsigns
[16:08] <edmoore> tbh little changed in that regard after getting the m0, it just meant i could build my own tx hardware
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[16:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-6 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-6
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[17:00] <mbales__> not sure if this is a known thing but I hadnt heard of it: http://www.balloonchallenge.org/get-involved
[17:02] <lz1dev> it is
[17:03] <lz1dev> hackaday made a post about it today
[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Team Bacon - Ross On Wye, United Kingdom
[17:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> STRATODEAN - Coleford, United Kingdom
[17:05] <mbales__> yeah thats how I found it
[17:05] <mbales__> just thought Id spread the word, as no one at the local hackerspace had heard of it either
[17:11] <edmoore> this is the world centre of hab chat
[17:11] <edmoore> universe, even
[17:13] <Upu> it is
[17:13] <HF_ATL_> any updates on the sd card log in conjunction with habduino?
[17:13] <Upu> hey HF_ATL_
[17:13] <Upu> I have a SD break out here
[17:13] <Upu> will look at some point
[17:13] <Upu> but I just sent my test Habduino down to daveake to play with
[17:14] <HF_ATL_> I remember someone mentioned that test will be performed end 2014
[17:14] <Upu> are you in the UK mbales__ ?
[17:14] <Upu> yeah then I had to do stuff sorry
[17:14] <HF_ATL_> hello there Upu~
[17:14] <Upu> in fairness its not high on my list at the moment sorry
[17:14] <edmoore> just for reference, the very first time i used an sd card it took about 1.5hrs to go from nothing to working sd card logging, including researching the relevent bits of spec
[17:14] <edmoore> so
[17:14] <HF_ATL_> no problem, just wanted to know the current situation
[17:14] <Upu> and I'm not sure it will work anyway
[17:14] <edmoore> waiting weeks for someone else to do it makes zero sense
[17:15] <Upu> I don't think there is doing to be enough memory on the 328 to do it and everything else
[17:15] <Upu> however
[17:15] <Upu> I will look time scale indeterminate
[17:15] <edmoore> there probably is
[17:15] <Upu> possibly
[17:15] <edmoore> unless you want a file system
[17:16] <HF_ATL_> yes the problem spoken at that time was related to the memory, not the difficulty of implementation
[17:16] <Upu> follow @habduinoproject
[17:16] <Upu> on twitter
[17:17] <Upu> its on github as a feature request
[17:17] <HF_ATL_> thanks Upu
[17:18] <mbales__> negative, stateside, california to be specific
[17:18] <Upu> ah ok
[17:18] <HF_ATL_> guess it's the perfect time to join twitter (no account registered yet) :)
[17:18] <Upu> no problems we have a number of State side people in here
[17:19] <Upu> daveake and I are team bacon
[17:19] <mbales__> yeah, just popped in here the other day and it took me a bit to realize its roughly half UK folks
[17:19] <edmoore> arko is californian
[17:19] <Upu> at this time of day it is
[17:19] <Upu> 1720 UK time
[17:19] <mbales__> ah, so everyones off work or about to be then
[17:20] <Upu> close
[17:20] <Upu> but this is a good place, the Stateside groups don't tend to share as much information
[17:20] <Upu> the GPSL mailing list on Yahoo is UScentric
[17:21] <Upu> but ask here and you're likely to get a response
[17:21] <Upu> 24/7 we even let some Aussies in here
[17:21] <edmoore> i'd love to be off work soon :)
[17:21] <mbales__> I havent been too big into the ballooning community until recently, though Ive been involved in launches for the last few years
[17:21] <Upu> not been at work today took some time off to design some PCB's
[17:22] <edmoore> been at work today assembling PCBs
[17:22] <Upu> stick around its nice in here
[17:22] <mbales__> nice, what sort of PCBs, im doing the same but at work, the boss is in to ballooning which is nice
[17:22] <HF_ATL_> me too, but found that this channel and ukhas website has all info someone will need
[17:22] <Upu> jsut doing a panel of breakoutboards for Ublox
[17:23] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/aE6kUx6.png
[17:23] <Upu> waiting on Eagle to make Gerbers
[17:23] <craag> Going with LNA+SAW then?
[17:23] <Upu> takes about 35 mins on a 8 core machine with an SSD and 18Gb :/
[17:23] <edmoore> that's really broken
[17:23] <mbales__> nice!
[17:23] <Upu> yep seems to work
[17:24] <mbales__> Ive been using osh park / eagle cad
[17:24] <mbales__> no waiting for gerbers!
[17:24] <Upu> they desperately need to put 3D acceleration in and sort it out
[17:24] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oppgudkcyo6oa3/2015-01-08%2017.23.18.jpg?dl=0
[17:24] <edmoore> pcbs that sit behind front panels
[17:24] <edmoore> for the dataloggers
[17:24] <edmoore> that's my today
[17:24] <edmoore> + buying stuff
[17:25] <mbales__> I dont have any fancy renders but let me see if i can find a pic of what Im putting together
[17:25] <edmoore> i don't think it's a problem of needing a gpu upu
[17:25] <edmoore> i suspect their algorithm is just terrible
[17:25] <Upu> well when you are editing the panel
[17:25] <Upu> I mean
[17:25] <Upu> its very sluggish
[17:25] <edmoore> still
[17:25] <edmoore> it's not a complicated thing
[17:26] <Upu> the gerber making
[17:26] <Upu> is just pants programming I suspect
[17:26] <edmoore> yes
[17:26] <edmoore> almost certainly
[17:26] <edmoore> it's doing nothing that could possibly justify a gpu
[17:26] <Upu> I need to try KiCAD
[17:26] <edmoore> only the 3d rendering could
[17:26] <Upu> well you can accelerate 2D
[17:26] <mbales__> KiCAD was rough to wirk with switching from eagle
[17:27] <Upu> yeah I've heard
[17:27] <Upu> but at least its being actively developed
[17:27] <mbales__> not having a standard set of libraries by default is the worst
[17:27] <Upu> craag possibly just waiting on feed back from some customers
[17:28] <Upu> was the correct answer
[17:28] <mbales__> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fy0t4fu64iatyz9/2015-01-04%2001.07.55.jpg?dl=0
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[17:28] <mbales__> thats what im working on, its not a great picture but there is a banana for scale
[17:28] <mbales__> Its the smallest APRS board I can manage
[17:29] <HF_ATL_> will use the hx1 mbales?
[17:29] <mbales__> this is v.8 and v.9 is shipping from the fab house, it removes about 6mm on length / width
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[17:29] <mbales__> yeah
[17:29] <mbales__> for now
[17:29] <mbales__> Im working on building my own radio to make it smaller
[17:30] <HF_ATL_> can you give more details about it or just a picture for now?
[17:30] <mbales__> I have a github repo but Id like to hold off publishing it until I have something tested and working
[17:30] <Upu> my god what did you do to that ublox ?
[17:31] <HF_ATL_> understood.. looks very nice
[17:31] <mbales__> haha
[17:31] <Upu> looks like Darkside micronuts
[17:31] <mbales__> yeah that poor module
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[17:31] <mbales__> its been soldered and resoldererd about a half dozen times
[17:32] <mbales__> but it keeps working
[17:32] <mbales__> really sold me on ublox stuff
[17:32] <Upu> btw http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[17:32] <Upu> I do the ublox and HX1's and ship to the States
[17:32] <mbales__> ah very nice!
[17:32] <Upu> I love "banana for scale" :)
[17:33] <mbales__> youre prices are way better than the supplier I went to before
[17:33] <mbales__> haha I bought 6 plastic bananas so I would always have one on hand
[17:33] <HF_ATL_> atmel up?
[17:33] <Upu> I kow mbales__ :)
[17:34] <mbales__> yeah its running an atmel 328p and a slightly modified trackuino firmware
[17:34] <mbales__> I dont have a pic but its got temp / humidity and barometric pressure sensors on the back
[17:35] <HF_ATL_> so its basically a habduino shield + arduino in a single pcb with a more compact solution
[17:35] <edmoore> no
[17:35] <mbales__> Im looking to switch to a atmega32u4 and put a EEPROM on board for data logging
[17:35] <HF_ATL_> very nice... dont forget the sd card log :)
[17:35] <mbales__> yes, basically
[17:35] <edmoore> habduino is basically a diy tracker than 90% of people do in a bigger and commercial solution
[17:35] <edmoore> the other way round to what you said
[17:35] <mbales__> SD cards are way too power hungry
[17:35] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/OHju2.jpg
[17:35] <Upu> look familiar ?
[17:35] <edmoore> they're hungry when they're on
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[17:36] <HF_ATL_> habduino can't work alone itself, it requires the arduino
[17:36] <mbales__> nice!
[17:36] <HF_ATL_> is just a shield
[17:36] <edmoore> thank you for telling me how habduino works
[17:36] <edmoore> i didn;t know
[17:36] <mbales__> i wish i could find a stable source for those sarantel antennas
[17:36] <Upu> you can't get them any more
[17:36] <edmoore> sarantel went under
[17:36] <Upu> Sarantel went tits up
[17:36] <mbales__> yeah thats what Ive found
[17:36] <HF_ATL_> I really dont understand why is wrong what I said since two are needed to get it working
[17:37] <Upu> however http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=103
[17:37] <Upu> work but they are quite wide band
[17:37] <Upu> so a SAW or LNA/SAW combo maybe needed with the MAX8's
[17:37] <Upu> however for HAB use you don't need one
[17:37] <Upu> (Craag people are using my modules for other stuff hence the issue)
[17:37] <mbales__> Im thinking i may go with the ublox uc530 for the integrated chip antenna
[17:38] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=55
[17:38] <Upu> right anyway I best go cook
[17:38] <Upu> bbl
[17:39] <mbales__> righto, ill be here on and off for the rest of the day
[17:39] <HF_ATL_> mbales, are you plan to also use a sma connector to egt advantage of external placing the gps antenna on the payload box?
[17:40] <mbales__> for now im using a u.fl connector but theyre only rated for 5 or so disconnects, next version i plan on using a gps with integrated patch antenna
[17:41] <edmoore> those chip antennas do the job nicely on balloons
[17:41] <mbales__> how does orientation affect them?
[17:41] <mbales__> a chip would be nice as id like total board weight minus 2 meter antenna to be around 10 grams
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[17:42] <mbales__> right now with the patch antenna im at 20 :/
[17:42] <mbales__> wrong slanty face but yeah
[17:43] <HF_ATL_> in a plane it also work upside down but with some loss
[17:43] <mbales__> good to know, you saved me a test flight
[17:43] <HF_ATL_> r/c plane
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[17:44] <HF_ATL_> but you can check tetsing the nr of satellites locked in different orientations
[17:45] <mbales__> this is true
[17:47] <mbales__> i wonder where upu is getting his 3v from for the GPS
[17:47] <HF_ATL_> I have particulary tested the LS20033 in the plane, not the ublox
[17:48] <mbales__> has anyone here ever used origin gps stuff?
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[17:57] <Oddstr13> could someone help me translate some french? google translate didn't do a wery good job :P
[17:57] <edmoore> mbales__, sorry, had to do actual work
[17:57] <edmoore> http://www.johansontechnology.com/images/stories/ip/rf-antennas/JTI_Antenna-1575AT43A40_2006-09.pdf
[17:58] <edmoore> last page
[17:58] <Oddstr13> "bonjours cher om merci de vos reports radio! \ cordialement 14 frs 1128 Stéphane"
[17:58] <edmoore> but anecdotally, it's fine for hab in any orientation
[17:58] <edmoore> so long as it has a clear view of the sky
[17:59] <edmoore> i.e. not blocked by something rf-opaque like metal
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[17:59] <edmoore> hello dear man and thank you for your radio reports
[17:59] <edmoore> (did you get a contact from him?)
[17:59] <edmoore> cordially something, Steven
[17:59] <Upu> hey mbales__ thats just a break out so you have to supply 3v to it
[18:00] <Oddstr13> found him using ROS, and there was a email address in there, so I sendt him an email with my grid location, radio setup and the received data
[18:01] <Oddstr13> I guess that's what is called QSL
[18:01] <edmoore> sure
[18:01] <edmoore> so it's basically just a qsl card
[18:01] <Oddstr13> ^^
[18:02] <edmoore> :)
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[18:02] <mbales__> i thought you also sent the one of the small aprs transmitter
[18:02] <mbales__> and thanks edmoore, quite insightful
[18:03] <edmoore> i'm famous for my insight
[18:03] <edmoore> also sarcasm
[18:03] <edmoore> arko, meet mbales__
[18:03] <Oddstr13> what's up with the callsign format tho? 14FRS1128
[18:03] <edmoore> you are both californian and therefore will know each other
[18:04] <Myself> I interpreted that as a ate
[18:04] <Myself> date
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[18:04] <arko> hi mbales__
[18:04] <Oddstr13> RX8: 11:20 @ -74,2 Hz: Beacon de 14FRS1128 in JN07am 14frs1128@gmail.com (BRM) <CRC-OK> -14 dB 1796 km 27.635 Mhz
[18:04] <mbales__> ahoy hoy
[18:04] <mbales__> where about in CA?
[18:04] <arko> pasadena
[18:04] <arko> you?
[18:04] <mbales__> ah not too far off, im in santa barbara
[18:05] <edmoore> Oddstr13, what freq did you receive him?
[18:05] <edmoore> 467.7125?
[18:05] <Oddstr13> 27.635 Mhz
[18:05] <Oddstr13> I guess that might be CB
[18:06] <mbales__> where everything is restricted airspace
[18:06] <arko> mbales__: oh nice, pretty place
[18:06] <mbales__> oh yeah, cant complain about that
[18:07] <edmoore> Oddstr13, do you know where he is in france?
[18:07] <edmoore> the french have a system of departments with numbers
[18:07] <edmoore> 14 is in normandy
[18:07] <edmoore> the number after could eb the post code
[18:07] <Oddstr13> edmoore: JN07am is the grid location
[18:07] <edmoore> i'm guessing here
[18:09] <edmoore> hmm, don't know
[18:09] <edmoore> department 14 is north of there
[18:10] <mbales__> arko, how often do you launch baloons?
[18:12] <Oddstr13> edmoore: oh well, I'm just happy I found someone I could actually send a message saying I heard him :P
[18:13] <Oddstr13> most of the websites out there seems to require a ham callsign
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:14] <edmoore> time to get your license Oddstr13 !
[18:15] <Oddstr13> edmoore: hehe, well.. I need to learn quite a bit more about radio stuff first
[18:15] <edmoore> you'd be surprised i think
[18:16] <mbales__> in the US it was a 35 question test and a basic knowledge of band plan and electronics (i=v/r type stuff) was all that was required, didnt study and made it to general on the first try
[18:16] <Oddstr13> I read some of the example test, it kinda contained stuff like inductors and such, I don't really know much about that part of electronics
[18:17] <Myself> the thing about the tests is that you can usually pick a section and say "okay, I don't know squat about X so I'm not even gonna focus my effort there, as long as I do reasonably well on the rest, I can make barely-guesses on the weak part and probably still pass"
[18:17] <Myself> that strategy, with X=calculus, is the only reason I ever made Extra :P
[18:17] <edmoore> most jurisdictions have beginner licenses that almost certainly wouldn't require you to know about inductors
[18:18] <Oddstr13> I should ask my old boss about this stuff, he's an old ham
[18:19] <edmoore> it's a useful thing to have as being able to make your own equipment and transmit is very handy
[18:19] <Oddstr13> I don't think he's much active anymore tho
[18:19] <edmoore> that's why i got it
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[18:30] <edmoore> good read: http://www.verticalsysadmin.com/making_robust_software/#solution
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[18:30] <mbales__> upu, let me know when youre back I have some questions about ordering some HX1's
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[18:43] <qyx_> yep, jpl coding standard is a good start
[18:43] <qyx_> also there are MISRA rules
[18:43] <qyx_> leaked somewhere on the interwebs
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[18:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LU1XDH-8_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=LU1XDH-8_chase
[18:47] <adamgreig> MISRA is as miserable as it sounds
[18:48] <adamgreig> you feel great because you're writing C to this really strict guide
[18:48] <adamgreig> but i found in reality it's much less helpful than just having a good static analyser
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[18:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LU1XDH_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=LU1XDH_chase
[18:50] <arko> mbales__: sorry, bit busy atm, i'llget back to you
[18:50] <mbales__> no worries
[18:54] <craag> Upu: Yes - mainly interested for more potential terrestrial stuff. Maybe something that'll actually materialise this time ;)
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[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC10 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=EDUPIC10
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[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:19] <Upu> hey mbales__
[19:19] <Upu> I'm back now
[19:20] <mbales__> ahoy hoy
[19:20] <Upu> you had a question sir
[19:20] <mbales__> I would like to try and sell these APRS units commercially and Im wondering if those HX1s have a bulk price
[19:21] <mbales__> likely 100 to start if i can manage that
[19:21] <Upu> sure I can sort something out
[19:21] <mbales__> excellent!
[19:21] <Upu> however officially I have to tell you at those numbers you should speak to Lemos as they are the Radiometrix distributor in the states
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[19:22] <mbales__> yeah, ive asked them and got some numbers recently
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[19:23] <Upu> Just say its for an amateur project
[19:23] <edmoore> ?
[19:23] <Upu> as I have an agreement with Danny (Lemos) that I'm ok to supply to the amateur community in the States
[19:23] <edmoore> oh sorry can't read
[19:23] <edmoore> avengers assemble has been given five stars in radio times
[19:23] <edmoore> i have felt this disconnected with socity for years
[19:24] <mbales__> ah gi see
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[19:27] <mbales__> trying to put together a supply chain early on
[19:27] <Upu> nps
[19:27] <mbales__> luckily nearly everything is off the shelf from digikey / mouser
[19:28] <Upu> where did you get your ublox from ?
[19:28] <Upu> other than a fire it seems
[19:29] <mbales__> haha
[19:29] <mbales__> straight from ublox
[19:29] <Upu> ouch
[19:30] <mbales__> yeah, i couldnt find another source for the max 7
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[19:33] <mbales__> though im considering switching to an origin gps module
[19:33] <Upu> how come ?
[19:34] <Upu> you know they are altitude locked ?
[19:34] <mbales__> they have smaller modules than ive seen from ublox, though i have no idea how they institue COCOM restrictions (max height and/or speed)
[19:34] <Upu> 23km
[19:34] <Upu> 24km
[19:34] <mbales__> ah i was unaware
[19:34] <Upu> http://www.origingps.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Nano-Hornet-ORG1411-Datasheet2.pdf
[19:34] <Upu> page 16
[19:34] <Upu> come chat when you want some more ublox :)
[19:36] <mbales__> actually i would like 2-3 as i want to send test units to a few people and get their reports, plus mine is looking a little& toasty
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[19:38] <Upu> place an order will ship tommorrow
[19:38] <mbales__> gotta wait till the next paycheck (hopefully friday) and I will definitely put an order in
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[19:40] <edmoore> what is the plural of ublox?
[19:41] <edmoore> ublices?
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[19:41] <kc2pit> Ubloxen?
[19:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-7 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-7
[19:45] <edmoore> kc2pit, yes
[19:45] <edmoore> prefer yours
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[19:48] <mbales__> ubloxi
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[20:07] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
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[20:27] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: February Practical Wireless mag features a 3 page article on #UKHASnet written by G4WNC #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas @jamescoxon
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[22:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AETH32-1 after 037 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=AETH32-1
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[22:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> cool
[22:21] <Reb-SM0ULC> !hysplit AETH32-1
[22:21] <SpacenearUS> 03Reb-SM0ULC: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[22:21] <Reb-SM0ULC> mm
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[22:27] <Upu> !hysplit add AETH32-1
[22:27] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03AETH32-1 to defaults
[22:27] <Upu> !hysplit run AETH32-1
[22:27] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[22:29] <Upu> !hysplit AETH32-1
[22:29] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: HYSPLIT for 03AETH32-1 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/150108-22_165538_AETH321.gif
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[22:35] <Reb-SM0ULC> ah, "magic" :)
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[23:03] <Laurenceb__> wtf do OFCOM have to do with "leaders debates"
[23:04] <Laurenceb__> seriously stick to spectrum allocation and allocate more staff
[23:04] Action: Laurenceb__ facepalms
[23:04] <fsphil> oh didn't you hear, they've fixed all the other problems and issues. all sorted
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> oh lol
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> all is forgiven
[23:07] <Laurenceb__> where has AETH32-1 been?
[23:08] <Laurenceb__> looks like AETH31-8 died over the Pacific
[23:08] <daveake> The day that ofcom have got everything fixed, B64 will reappear in the shape of a pig
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[23:09] <Laurenceb__> heh
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> AETH32-1 is interesting
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> very cold and ~1v
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> wonder what they have done re power
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[23:12] <Laurenceb__> has it dieded?
[23:12] <Laurenceb__> no packets for a while
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[23:33] <Reb-SM0ULC> Laurenceb__: the temp for real?
[23:34] <Laurenceb__> yeah wtf -75C
[23:40] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> or not yet xD
[23:43] <fsphil> yes stay with us
[23:43] <lz1dev> just a little while longer
[00:00] --- Fri Jan 9 2015