highaltitude.log.20150107

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[00:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-4 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-4
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[09:14] <paul_HAB-P> morning!
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[09:20] <fsphil> morn
[09:22] <Oddstr13> does anyone have a soldering station they would recommend?
[09:23] <Oddstr13> I really need something better than this «Radioshack firestarter»
[09:29] <daveake> I used Antex stations for about 30 years, till recently I bought a Metcal. For most soldering either is just fine, but when it gets challenging (e.g. hole with a lot of copper attached) the Metcal walks it.
[09:32] <Darkside> walks it?
[09:32] <Darkside> oh, soccer
[09:32] <daveake> Is soooo much better
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[09:38] <nats`> I'm slowly giving up on weller to get the same metcal station as the work
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[09:46] <Oddstr13> I have been thinking about a weller for a while.. we had those at school, and they worked just fine
[09:47] <Oddstr13> was probably one of the cheapest models tho
[09:48] <daveake> The Antex seemed fine to me, and I just accepted that some jobs - e.g. putting a plug on some RG213 - were going to be difficult (to say the least). Then came Metcal ...
[09:49] <edmoore> and soon will come JBC
[09:49] <Darkside> daveake: so you could say it... Met your expectations?
[09:50] <daveake> edmoore Yeah, I looked at those too. In the end, the only way to make a decision was to ask myself how much I was willing to pay, then get the best I could within that budget
[09:50] <edmoore> one nice thing about metcals is there are lots for a good price on ebay
[09:50] <daveake> Sadly it was (quite some way) below JBC levels
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[09:50] <edmoore> for £100 you can get the most soldering iron for your money with a 2nd hand metcal
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[09:51] <edmoore> but i've now used a jbc and can't go back
[09:51] <daveake> :)
[09:51] <Darkside> edmoore: what was that brand of sidecutters you mentioned?
[09:51] <Darkside> the silly expensive ones
[09:51] <edmoore> lindstrom
[09:51] <Darkside> thats it
[09:51] <edmoore> not that expensive for good side cutters
[09:51] <Darkside> AUD$150
[09:51] <daveake> Nope
[09:51] <daveake> and will outlive you
[09:51] <Darkside> heh
[09:51] <Darkside> farnell here still stock some of the hakko ones
[09:51] <Darkside> which i dont think hakko make anymore
[09:52] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/hakko/106-05/cutter/dp/1307622
[09:53] <edmoore> here are the two sets of lindstroms i have
[09:53] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrizcr63rgkyk0b/2015-01-07%2009.52.33.jpg?dl=0
[09:53] <edmoore> the yellows are the 8160s
[09:53] <edmoore> defaults
[09:53] <edmoore> have a pair in every room and one by the loo - they're really good
[09:54] <Darkside> AUD$62
[09:54] <edmoore> and the blue ones are ultra-flush Rx8142s
[09:54] <edmoore> which are for really really fine stuff
[09:54] <Darkside> 8142 = AUD$104
[09:54] <edmoore> like having to remove individual strands of very fine copper wire, say
[09:54] <Darkside> jeez
[09:55] <edmoore> i use them for cutting CuNiTi wire very flush when i spiral-plice it onto copper wire
[09:55] <edmoore> so that you don't get a little bit sticking up into the heatshrink
[09:56] <daveake> I also like the small Knipex ones, which I find a bit better for stripping wire (I've never found any actual wire strippers that I like). The Knipex though are softer metal and will die if you use them on something hard
[09:56] <edmoore> i have strong opinions on wire cutters if you want...
[09:56] <daveake> (by die, I mean dent)
[09:56] <daveake> please do ...
[09:56] <edmoore> i have several sets for different kinds of insulation
[09:57] <edmoore> but basically the stripmaster type are the best and normally specified for any graded wiremanship
[09:57] <edmoore> like aerospace or military
[09:58] <edmoore> they have replaceable jaw sets for the kind of wire you're using - e.g. ptfe wire (use a lot of it here) needs a v different blade grind to normal pvc stuff
[09:58] <fsphil> I've a cheap blue plastic wire stripper that works suprisingly well, except for very thin cable
[09:58] <edmoore> however changing the jaw sets gets tiresome so better to just buy another set of handles
[09:58] <edmoore> anything that has the risk of cutting into the copper strands themselves should be avoided for anything important
[09:58] <edmoore> *especially* single core stuff like pyro wire
[09:58] <fsphil> that probably rules out mine
[09:59] <edmoore> as you're just asking for it to fail
[09:59] <edmoore> that gets people in rocketry who use side cutters and scissors to strip e-match wire
[09:59] <edmoore> makes me sick in my mouth
[10:00] <fsphil> I wouldn't even use scissors to wire up a tv
[10:00] <edmoore> so i would say get these http://uk.farnell.com/ideal/45-097/wire-stripper-16-26awg-0-875in/dp/1592099
[10:01] <edmoore> or even these as i think this is probs a more useful jaw set http://uk.farnell.com/ideal/45-098/wire-stripper-20-30awg/dp/290105
[10:01] <edmoore> you can get jaw sets on ebay separately
[10:02] <edmoore> and where they inexplicably cost £200 instead of £40, those are probably with PTFE jaws as they have to be ground quite accurately
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[10:04] <edmoore> but worth just biting the bullet if you start doing ptfe stuff
[10:04] <edmoore> Spec55 wire is much happier with them too
[10:04] <edmoore> as always, this page is worth reading
[10:04] <edmoore> https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
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[10:06] <edmoore> he recommends the Ideal 45-177 Stripmaster Lite (16-26 AWG, Type E Teflon)
[10:07] <edmoore> crimp tools are a world of pain on nice connectors, happily bypassed if you go for solder cup instead of crimps on the connectors
[10:07] <edmoore> but that puts all the more empahses on good strain relief
[10:07] <edmoore> which he covers (service loops etc)
[10:12] <edmoore> http://uk.farnell.com/ideal/45-177/wire-stripper/dp/1417448
[10:12] <edmoore> if you look at the price and gulp, first look into your soul and ask if you've ever had problems with dodgy cabling
[10:13] <edmoore> intermittent continuity, fatiguing joints, whatever
[10:13] <edmoore> and if so has it cost you something worth £200 - e.g. has it caused a hab flight to go wrong?
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[10:15] <daveake> Not seen an epoxy gun/cartridges before. Like.
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[10:15] <edmoore> i'm done now :)
[10:15] <daveake> s/cartidges/nozzles/
[10:16] <edmoore> i'd definitely spend the extra on strippers and less on the soldering iron btw, for a given total amount to spend on both
[10:16] <edmoore> bad strips cause failures
[10:16] <edmoore> soldering is more about technique than absolute iron performance, where's strippers are to a large extent about the stripper
[10:17] <daveake> We're still talking about *wire* strippers, right?
[10:17] <edmoore> just about
[10:18] <edmoore> in conclusion, Darkside: treat yourself to some lindstrom 8160s
[10:19] <number10> I just read that out of context edmoore
[10:20] <number10> the bit about spending extra on strippers
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[10:47] <day-> number10: i read it twice. and still drew the wrong conclusion :P
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[10:57] <M6XiMaN> http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/06/the-voltera-v-one-makes-circuit-boards-in-minutes/
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[10:57] <M6XiMaN> Looks interesting
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[11:01] <M6XiMaN> http://volterainc.com/
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[11:07] <craag> wow that's cool
[11:07] <craag> most likely a little out of the hobbyist budget
[11:07] <M6XiMaN> Hard to tell
[11:08] <M6XiMaN> The machine itself looks tiny
[11:09] <craag> Yeah, for work stuff though it'd be really valuable I think
[11:09] <M6XiMaN> Oh absolutely
[11:09] <M6XiMaN> Curious to know how conductive that ink is, though
[11:10] <craag> Yeah, and how well it holds parts
[11:10] <M6XiMaN> Also says it does two layer, but I don't see a mechanism for making vias
[11:11] <craag> yeah pretty sure they'd have advertised that if it did it
[11:11] <craag> looks like you solder to the ink?
[11:11] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-30 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=PS-30
[11:12] <M6XiMaN> "We're the first to be able to print two layer circuits onto FR4 (the industry standard substrate) with a product of this size and cost. But it doesn't stop the... the printer is also cable of dispensing solder paste and baking the board to attach all the small components"
[11:12] <craag> no vias rules out doing draft boards with it really :/
[11:13] <M6XiMaN> Perhaps ink/mask/ink?
[11:13] <gonzo_nb> two layers on the same side? print a mask between?
[11:13] <gonzo_nb> snap
[11:13] <M6XiMaN> That's fine for tracks, not so good for component
[11:13] <M6XiMaN> +s
[11:14] <M6XiMaN> Essentially you'd get a working circuit but you'd need to design your PCB twice
[11:14] <craag> yep - still valuable
[11:14] <M6XiMaN> Still, it's a neat machine nonetheless
[11:14] <gonzo_nb> cnc routing is prob a cheaper, more robust methos of prototyping though, at the mo
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> CNC routing has major issues
[11:15] <M6XiMaN> Yeah, it's slow and messy for one
[11:15] <gonzo_nb> seen it, yet to try it here
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> Getting decent resolution requires advanced tooling - and having it not wear instantly needs it to be very flat.
[11:15] <gonzo_nb> (still need to finish building the mill)
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> - cutting not much into the epoxy layer at all
[11:16] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[11:16] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he was healthy.
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> I've got so much fun ideas around the above.
[11:16] <gonzo_nb> there are ways to get it flat
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> For example - a machine to lay out enamelled wires, stamp the ends flat into component pads, and automatically glue to PCBs with thermoset epoxy
[11:17] <M6XiMaN> Slow, messy
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> Very, very high density
[11:17] <gonzo_nb> mill a board holder on the bed, that will correct out any errors in the bed. then vac hold the pcb down
[11:19] <gonzo_nb> Though I recom my mill will be a bit overkill for pcbs!
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_nb: yeah - I'm not saying it's impossible.
[11:20] <gonzo_nb> I have yet to try. so happy to revise opinion later!
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> But >60000RPM tooling and a Z flatness to within 15um or so, and ~10um or so linear accuracy and low run-out and ... all add up to not quite simple for what seems like a simple production technique
[11:21] <gonzo_nb> would not consider it for production. only ptoto
[11:21] <gonzo_nb> prototype
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> But - if you can do much coarser geometry - you might as well do a little plotter with a sharpie, and a quick etch
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[11:23] <gonzo_nb> I'ver been playing with photoresist again recently. Didn't think I'd ever be doing that agn
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[11:24] <gonzo_nb> using pcb resist film, for teching steel
[11:24] <gonzo_nb> sort of, a poor man's spark erosion
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[11:33] Nick change: Guest1994 -> danielsaul
[11:33] Nick change: danielsaul -> Guest88926
[11:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO6SOM-8 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=DO6SOM-8
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[11:35] <lz1dev> > Comment: Chris auf Ballonfahrt.1
[11:35] <lz1dev> lol
[11:37] <gonzo_nb> methane balloon?
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[11:39] <gonzo_nb> SpeedEvil, just recalled that at my first company, we used to use a flat bed plotter with a modified pen holder to take an etch resist pen,
[11:39] Nick change: Guest88926 -> danielsaul
[11:39] <gonzo_nb> usually on heavy boards that you could not buy with resist
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[11:53] <edmoore> number10, i think strippers are cheaper than these strippers
[11:53] <number10> and more useful
[11:54] <number10> the wire ones
[11:54] <daveake> And remove more insulation
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[12:19] <Laurenceb> wow PS-30 is pwning
[12:20] <Laurenceb> Pwns-30
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[12:56] <Maxell> !ping PS-30
[12:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Last contact with 03PS-30 was 0326 minutes ago
[12:56] <Maxell> !payload PS-30
[12:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[12:56] <Maxell> !flight PS-30
[12:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[12:56] <Maxell> :|
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[12:57] <Maxell> http://picospace.net/?p=519 ?
[12:57] <Maxell> Ah, WSPR on 30m and 20m. So reception should go automaticly :P
[12:59] <Maxell> Oh, too bad it has to run custom client!
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[13:31] <lu2ham> test
[13:33] <edmoore> failed.
[13:39] <Maxell> lu2ham: try again :)
[13:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STREEK_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=STREEK_chase
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[14:04] <M6XiMaN> Aha, just realised the video on the Voltera site answers one question - it's ink/mask/ink
[14:04] <craag> Ah ok
[14:05] <M6XiMaN> That's what the blue spots are
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[14:07] <M6XiMaN> So now I wonder what the insulating and dilectric properties of the blue ink are :)
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[14:19] <gonzo_nb> then it is possibly not limited to two layer then
[14:20] <gonzo_nb> just keep going till it topples over!
[14:20] <M6XiMaN> Indeed, although space will put a limit on that
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[16:34] <Laurenceb> https://i.imgur.com/n3t4y7f.jpg
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> lolz
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[16:44] <Myself> sfw?
[16:45] <slapplebags> affirmative
[16:46] <slapplebags> i wish all packaging came wit that label
[16:46] <Myself> oh that, hah. Been making the rounds this morning.
[16:47] <slapplebags> being stateside i always seem to miss the action on this channel
[16:57] <eroomde> it can encourage you to become an early riser
[16:57] <eroomde> or probably more accurately a morning slacker
[16:57] <slapplebags> haha
[16:57] <slapplebags> indeed
[16:57] <slapplebags> not that i need much help with that
[17:00] <eroomde> not many of us do
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[17:03] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
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[18:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PAYLOAD after 033 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=PAYLOAD
[18:40] <Myself> Heyy, the creatively-named one is back!
[18:41] <Myself> It occurs to me that I could configure a transmitter to blurp out a packet claiming to be B-64, just to troll the channel here. If I hadn't just spilled my plans here in this line of text, y'all would flip the hell out, wouldn't you? :P
[18:41] <fsphil> we would've have saw through your evil plan :)
[18:42] <Myself> yeah but there'd be hours of debunkery and pants-wetting excitement first.
[18:43] <fsphil> well, minutes
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[18:49] <lz1dev> Myself: easiest way to get perma banned
[18:50] <Myself> Good thing I'm not an evil mastermind, I guess.
[18:52] PY2SDR (b114a752@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.20.167.82) joined #highaltitude.
[18:53] <fsphil> leo has a very particular set of skills...
[18:53] <daveake> :)
[18:54] <qyx_> to vanish? :P
[18:54] <daveake> Trained by the KGB
[18:54] <qyx_> maybe they got him
[18:54] <lz1dev> endurance and stealth
[18:55] <qyx_> still it's doesn't seem sane they disappeared at the same time
[18:55] <fsphil> there has been some contact, we know leo still exists :)
[18:58] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-140-103-33.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:59] <daveake> Or someone's intercepting his emails .... :p
[19:00] <fsphil> leo-ish
[19:00] <fsphil> trust no-one
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[19:04] <Maxell> rule number one of the Leo balloons...
[19:04] <Maxell> Don't talk about the ballons.
[19:05] Action: fsphil still has a radio on 434.500
[19:05] Action: fsphil believes
[19:05] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:05] <fsphil> they drifted below 434.500 during the night, could've passed several times and I wouldn't have decoded it
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:18] <DL7AD> evning L
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[19:18] <DL7AD> evning Lunar_Lander
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[19:54] <jededu> I have a small issue with Dominoex16 I can reliably decode the last 70% of the sentence but it always misses the first part any ideas ?
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[19:57] <jededu> Ahh its timing
[19:58] <fsphil> check your timi... oh
[19:58] <fsphil> odd that it's the last 70% you get
[19:58] <fsphil> when I messed with timing it would normally lose the last bit
[19:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC10 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=EDUPIC10
[20:00] <jededu> Thx fsphil got it first tx :)
[20:01] <fsphil> nice
[20:01] <fsphil> domex and thor sound great
[20:02] <jededu> It does :)
[20:09] <paul_HAB-P> Finally raised my first payload config doc - took the plunge at last :-)
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[20:10] <paul_HAB-P> Does it have to be approved or can I test against it straight away (e.g. generate a pin on the map)?
[20:10] <daveake> latter
[20:11] <daveake> It's the flight doc that needs approving, and you don't need one of those for testing
[20:11] <Upu> you only need approval for flight docs
[20:11] <paul_HAB-P> Ok cool - thanks for that :-) Terribly exiting now lol
[20:11] <Upu> lol
[20:11] <Upu> if it doesn't work
[20:11] <Upu> check here http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[20:12] <Upu> but the bot will pick it up
[20:12] <paul_HAB-P> Thanks for that :)
[20:12] <Upu> whats it called ?
[20:12] <paul_HAB-P> TCOS01
[20:13] Action: Upu watches..
[20:13] <paul_HAB-P> Hang on gotta upload firmware and get a bit of charge in a batt - ok couple of mins lol
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[20:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Please do RSID if your doing MFSK dl-fldigi, otherwise there is no way to AFC on the bugger :-(
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[20:38] <paul_HAB-P> Geoff was that aimed at me? if so erm please explain...
[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Non sry jededu, dl-fldigi doesn't do AFC on MFSk signals so you have to sit there manually tracking the signal :-( Unless you use RSID which is supported by AFC
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[20:42] <fsphil> even with rsid it can be tricky
[20:43] <jededu> Ok ill give it a go :)
[20:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Indeed, if its steps in the middle of a frame its done for, but the leading RSID about 300ms before the main frame allows everything to settle before the data arrives
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[20:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Tks jededu
[20:51] <jededu> Almost : ) http://imgur.com/zM0VJPV
[20:52] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Looking good
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> PS-30 Crosses Chile
[20:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> nearly across Argentina!
[20:57] <daveake> Good job the payload ID isn't PS-82-FKL
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> :)
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[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:05] <paul_HAB-P> Is there a way to edit the fields in my payload doc?
[21:06] <paul_HAB-P> Ignore me.
[21:06] <paul_HAB-P> found it
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> where was PS-30 launched?
[21:09] <lz1dev> Lunar_Lander: http://beta.tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-30
[21:09] <fsphil> Melbourne
[21:09] <fsphil> http://picospace.net/
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah cool, thanks
[21:11] <paul_HAB-P> Ok - so it looks to me like I am being parsed by Habhub :-)
[21:11] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
[21:12] <paul_HAB-P> I guess I have to create a flight for it to appear on the map?
[21:12] <fsphil> just a payload doc
[21:12] <paul_HAB-P> Hmmm - guess all isnt rosey here then lol
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[21:13] <fsphil> don't see anything in the logtail
[21:13] <fsphil> just edupic10
[21:13] <lz1dev> he is probably in offline mode
[21:13] <fsphil> is dl-fldigi in online mode?
[21:13] <jededu> Im offline so you should be able to see it
[21:14] <paul_HAB-P> nope it was online and logtail had TCOS01 in it!
[21:16] <fsphil> ah you've no gps lock
[21:17] <fsphil> $$TCOS01,91,00:10:05,0.000000,0.000000,0,0,26,2605,33*D804
[21:17] <paul_HAB-P> D'oh lol
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[21:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5PGW-1 after 0321 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-1
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[21:45] <benny_boy> evening all
[21:45] <benny_boy> please can I have 2 flight documents approved?
[21:46] <Upu> join #habhub
[21:46] <Upu> and post their docid's there
[21:47] <benny_boy> ok
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[21:58] <paul_HAB-P> if only I could get fldigi to pick my habduino up again <sigh>
[21:58] <paul_HAB-P> rebbotski
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[21:58] <amell> Got my ESP 8266 samples today. Damn, I cant believe that I can run a webserver and wifi on this tiny thing.
[21:59] <amell> oh and i had to go to the post office, cos the seller didnt bother to put any postage on it.
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[22:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=LORA1
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MG169706 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=MG169706
[23:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_SKY_LORA - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=PI_SKY_LORA
[23:03] <fsphil> fly hi, pi sky
[23:05] <daveake> It's on my desk, so hopefully not :)
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[23:25] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> PS-30 could do a circumnavigation in a few days
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> if it lasts
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[23:40] <paul_HAB-P> Why does fldigi report jack server is not running, signal 11 - after I have changed absolutely nothing?!?!
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[23:43] <paul_HAB-P> I did a reset in fldigi maybe this has fecked it?
[23:44] <fsphil> do you use jack?
[23:44] <paul_HAB-P> no - alsa.
[23:44] <fsphil> checked the audio settings?
[23:44] <paul_HAB-P> not getting that far it flashes up the config window then dies...
[23:44] <fsphil> oh dear
[23:45] <paul_HAB-P> also - i renamed the .fldigi dir and it didnt make a new one..
[23:45] <paul_HAB-P> so Borked.
[23:45] <fsphil> dl-fldigi won't, it makes .dl-fldigi
[23:45] <paul_HAB-P> ah right - let me try that one lol
[23:45] <fsphil> (dl-)fldigi doesn't speak jack directly
[23:45] <paul_HAB-P> <---slaps head
[23:45] <paul_HAB-P> thanks!
[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TCOS01 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=TCOS01
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[23:47] <paul_HAB-P> We are on the map! :D
[23:48] <paul_HAB-P> So I slapped a GSM aerial on the funcube and it got rid of all the local interference :)
[23:49] <fsphil> lucky
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[23:49] <paul_HAB-P> its ok for very local testing...
[23:49] <paul_HAB-P> but i probably need some form of filter.
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[23:49] <fsphil> is it the pro+ model?
[23:51] <paul_HAB-P> Yes
[23:51] <fsphil> should be fine. it has a 2m and 70cm filter built in iirc
[23:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-5 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KF5PGW-5
[23:52] <paul_HAB-P> I'm still so green at this. need to focus on aerials next/
[23:53] <fsphil> nice when it all works
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[23:58] Nick change: Geoff-G8| -> Geoff-G8DHE-Tab
[23:59] <paul_HAB-P> yeah sense of achievement - however, this is built from purchased modules so its a starting point...
[00:00] --- Thu Jan 8 2015