highaltitude.log.20141229

[00:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Tatty_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=Tatty_chase
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[02:13] <EA1EXV> G9 in pos 43.272464 -6.3124109 at 01 024 29 utc bad checsum
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[05:13] <rdaruwala> Hey, anyone here? :P
[05:14] <rdaruwala> Or has everyone gone to bed now and I should check back in the morning. Lol
[05:14] <Darkside> depends what time zone you're in
[05:15] <rdaruwala> Yup, I know. Just had a quick telemetry question and was wondering if anyone knowledgeable could help me out
[05:15] <Darkside> ask
[05:16] <rdaruwala> Was looking at the PiSky and Habduino kits-- Firstly, do they come with antennas for the radio? If not, is it better to build or buy one, and if buy, are there any recommended antennas?
[05:16] <Darkside> generally the antenna for the payload is built into the payload
[05:16] <Darkside> i believe the PITS kits some with a length of coax which can be used for that
[05:17] <rdaruwala> Ok. So buying an radio antenna for the payload doesn't really work?
[05:17] <Darkside> depends on the antenna
[05:17] <Darkside> remembering it has to be mounted to your payload somehow
[05:18] <Darkside> and the connectors on the PITS board aren't really well placed for protruding an antenna out of a payload box
[05:18] <Darkside> same with the habduino
[05:18] <rdaruwala> Mhm. Generally do we want those facing downwards or out the side?
[05:18] <Darkside> so generally the antenna used is known as a 1/4 wave monopole, with ground radials
[05:18] <Darkside> and it faces downwards
[05:19] <rdaruwala> Gotcha. Let me look that up quickly..
[05:19] <Darkside> http://www.ipellejero.es/hf/antenas/monopolo/Monopolo_tierra_media_diag_vertical.jpg
[05:19] <Darkside> ideally teh radiatorn pattern would look somethign like this
[05:19] <Darkside> (though inverted)
[05:20] <rdaruwala> Ahh gotcha
[05:20] <Darkside> see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Nel1EYD7Qr1rsh6qWP73Qc-ppsagyRN982CxQCPEX4/edit?usp=sharing
[05:20] <Darkside> theres some pictures further down in that document
[05:21] <rdaruwala> Ahh awesome
[05:28] <rdaruwala> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna Found this guide. Looks quite helpful :)
[05:29] <Darkside> yup
[05:29] <Darkside> lots of good info out there
[05:31] <rdaruwala> Are they hard to make? Like... if you've never done it before, is it easy to screw up?
[05:31] <Darkside> not too hard really
[05:31] <Darkside> difficult to test them properly without the right gear
[05:32] <Darkside> but if you make it in the right ballpark measurements, it shoudl be fine
[05:32] <rdaruwala> So in your pictures and the guide there are the 4 little wires coming out of the antenna that go to the four corners of the box
[05:32] <rdaruwala> Are those part of the antenna or for stability?
[05:33] <Darkside> those are the ground radials
[05:33] <Darkside> they emulate a 'ground plane'
[05:35] <rdaruwala> Gotcha, so they are needed
[05:36] <rdaruwala> So what if the capsule doesn't have a flat bottom?
[05:36] <Darkside> do your best :-)
[05:36] <rdaruwala> xD Allright
[05:36] <Darkside> what were you thinking?
[05:36] <Darkside> go look up some of daveake's spherical payloads
[05:36] <rdaruwala> Glider
[05:36] <Darkside> oh
[05:36] <rdaruwala> Yup
[05:36] <Darkside> yeah be careful with glider drop stuff
[05:37] <rdaruwala> We are
[05:37] <Darkside> lots of laws to be broken there
[05:37] <rdaruwala> Mhm
[05:38] <rdaruwala> Yeah, ugh. That is a bit concerning actually
[05:39] <rdaruwala> Haven't looked too deeply into how many potential laws a glider could break
[05:40] <Darkside> what country?
[05:40] <rdaruwala> US
[05:40] <Darkside> ah
[05:40] <Darkside> dunno
[05:41] <rdaruwala> Mmm, I'll find some time to thoroughly look that all up
[05:42] <Darkside> yup
[05:42] <Darkside> im sure its been done
[05:44] <rdaruwala> It has -- There are some videos on youtube. But it was done in Europe which definitely has different laws concerning it
[06:15] <rdaruwala> One last question
[06:15] <rdaruwala> Actually I lied there'll be more
[06:15] <rdaruwala> But
[06:16] <rdaruwala> The PITS kit transmits on 434MHz and the guide that I found makes an antenna for 433MHz
[06:16] <rdaruwala> They'd still work together without issue, right?
[06:20] <rdaruwala> And secondly, if I didn't feel entirely comfortable building my own antenna, could I just stick this off the bottom of my capsule? http://www.amazon.com/Superbat-433Mhz-Antenna-Magnetic-Connector/dp/B00P3GJE5S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1419833976&sr=8-3&keywords=433+Mhz+antenna
[06:25] <craag> rdaruwala: That relies on having a metal surface to magnetically stick to *and* form the groundplane
[06:26] <craag> also rather heavy compared to a wire antenna normally used on the payload
[06:27] <rdaruwala> Agh. What about a rubber duck?
[06:27] <craag> I know someone else who put a tracker in a glider
[06:27] <craag> They just had the antenna longitudinally inside the fuselage
[06:27] <rdaruwala> Ahhhh makes sense
[06:27] <craag> and then the groundplane wires going the other way along fuselage
[06:28] <craag> not ideal in any way (and will probably make Darkside wince)
[06:28] <craag> but it worked alright
[06:28] <rdaruwala> Lol sounds good
[06:28] <craag> Just keep the antenna element away from any metal objects inside the fuselage
[06:28] <rdaruwala> And the 433MHz antenna would work with the 434MHz PITS right?
[06:28] <craag> Yes
[06:29] <craag> But just use a bit of wire in the glider
[06:29] <craag> keep the weight down
[06:29] <rdaruwala> Mhm. Good idea
[06:29] <rdaruwala> Would a rubber duck suffice if I utterly fail at making a wire?
[06:29] <adamgreig> just try again with the wire, it's honestly very easy :p
[06:29] <rdaruwala> Lol ok, I will
[06:30] <adamgreig> you literally need to cut a piece of wire to about 16cm, and then four more around that length ish
[06:30] <rdaruwala> And then solder it together
[06:30] <rdaruwala> Yeah, should be doable
[06:30] <adamgreig> then solder the first one to the middle of the coax, the other four to the shield of the coax. if you like you can use a coax connector which is very easy to solder to instead, then plug the coax in
[06:30] <rdaruwala> What determines the frequency? the length of the wire?
[06:30] <adamgreig> then - this is the final trick - fold the four outer wires out so they form the ground plane
[06:31] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[06:31] <adamgreig> don't do the thing i've seen before where the four outer wires hang down around the inner one
[06:31] <rdaruwala> Yup, I saw that Upu
[06:31] <adamgreig> yes exactly, the length of the wire determines the frequency
[06:31] <Upu> nps just joined :)
[06:31] <Upu> 164mm
[06:31] <adamgreig> it's a 1/4 wavelength (hence the name 1/4-wave groundplane antenna)
[06:31] <rdaruwala> Upu, you're the one doing the PITS, right?
[06:31] <Upu> Yup
[06:31] <Upu> http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagpcalc.html
[06:32] <Upu> you lot are up early
[06:32] <adamgreig> late*
[06:32] <Upu> ouch
[06:32] <adamgreig> yea
[06:32] <adamgreig> should get to sleep, running out of maths momentum
[06:32] <rdaruwala> Upu, love the project. Hoping the boards can go on sale soon. Looking forward to it
[06:32] <adamgreig> wna deploy a big sim job before bed time though
[06:32] <Upu> cheers me too
[06:33] <rdaruwala> Is there an ETA of the sorts thus far?
[06:33] <Upu> They will be at the PCB assemblers on the 5th of Jan
[06:33] <Upu> all the PCB's and bits are sat on my desk at work
[06:33] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/Pits/Product/Scan003.jpg
[06:34] <rdaruwala> Awesome! Are those the normal or + boards?
[06:34] <Upu> they will all be + boards from now on
[06:34] <Upu> not planning on making any more of the older ones
[06:34] <rdaruwala> Ahh, so buy a +
[06:34] <rdaruwala> (whew), was about to buy an older one
[06:34] <Upu> yeah an A+
[06:34] <Upu> oh yeah sorry I should put that on the site
[06:35] <rdaruwala> Would recommend doing so :)
[06:35] <Upu> its a much neater package
[06:35] <rdaruwala> Will they support APRS too?
[06:35] <Upu> we have an APRS addon board
[06:35] <Upu> which is ready
[06:35] <rdaruwala> Got my Technician HAM license and I've been a little bit interested in trying it out
[06:35] <Upu> we just need it testing
[06:35] <rdaruwala> Though I'm slightly clueless
[06:35] <Upu> there is one on the way to the States for testing now
[06:35] <rdaruwala> Well, I'd be happy to test it for you (If you need more testers) once I understand how it all works :)
[06:36] <Upu> well we are pretty sure it should work
[06:36] <Upu> we just can't test it here
[06:36] <rdaruwala> Yep, limitations in the UK
[06:37] <rdaruwala> Butyeah, awesome work so far
[06:37] <rdaruwala> Makes my life a ton easier :D
[06:37] <Upu> yeah I suspect the APRS board will be popular
[06:38] <rdaruwala> I'll definitely get one
[06:38] <rdaruwala> Do you have any US-based vendors by the way?
[06:38] <rdaruwala> Looked around but couldn't find any
[06:38] <Upu> no
[06:38] <rdaruwala> Ahh okay, didn't think so
[06:38] <Upu> postage is so quick and you don't pay UK VAT so didn't see the point
[06:39] <rdaruwala> Fair enough, and shouldn't be a problem anyways
[06:39] <rdaruwala> I'm ordering half my stuff from the UK anyways
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[07:18] <jededu> ping upu
[07:19] <DL7AD_mobile> Morning
[07:19] <jededu> Morning
[07:20] <DL7AD_mobile> Here in berlin fell 10cm snow this night
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[07:27] <rdaruwala> So one last question for the night (I promise!)
[07:28] <rdaruwala> What ground station antenna do you use to get signals from a NTX?
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[07:36] <UpuWork> morning jededu
[07:38] <jededu> Morning upu do you have any of the old version of the PITS left at all, I have 15 A+ pi's here
[07:38] <UpuWork> A+'s ?
[07:38] <jededu> Sorry A
[07:38] <UpuWork> you're not the first person to ask
[07:39] <jededu> I am doing some larger stuff this year
[07:39] <UpuWork> at the moment no
[07:39] <UpuWork> I may consider doing another run of the older boards though
[07:40] <jededu> Cool if you could
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[07:40] <jededu> Let me know my board works but yours works better
[07:40] <UpuWork> don't really want too
[07:40] <UpuWork> if I'm being honest
[07:41] <UpuWork> but if you want 15 I'm sure I can sort something out :)
[07:41] <jededu> Do you have blanks
[07:41] <UpuWork> yeah but the ones left have a small fault
[07:41] <UpuWork> its easy to fix
[07:41] <jededu> mmm I dont plan to lose that many
[07:41] <jededu> Ok if you want to supply those Ill fix them
[07:42] <jededu> Im ordering again anyway soon
[07:43] <UpuWork> no probs I'll have a think
[07:43] <UpuWork> someone asked me last night for the older ones
[07:43] <rdaruwala> Heh. Right here I think
[07:43] <jededu> Ok ill order Monday so let me know before then :)
[07:43] <UpuWork> yes :)
[07:44] <rdaruwala> Honestly I'll just take whichever one shows up first
[07:44] <rdaruwala> No real preference of one over the other
[07:44] <rdaruwala> Unless there are significant benefits of taking the + :P
[07:45] <UpuWork> yeah its shinier
[07:45] <UpuWork> so just before Christmas I went through my box of failed / broken / not working prototypes and trackers
[07:45] <rdaruwala> Perfect. I'm sold
[07:45] <UpuWork> and desoldered the bits that still worked
[07:45] <UpuWork> like the GPS Modules etc
[07:45] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/ZRWS1tj.jpg
[07:46] <rdaruwala> Nice!
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[07:49] <jededu> I need a pile like that :)
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[10:30] Nick change: jeb -> hi
[10:30] Nick change: hi -> habsupremer
[10:34] <habsupremer> Hello
[10:35] <habsupremer> I'm looking to shop for some HAB items for my launch (balloon, chute, cord, enclosure, etc.)
[10:35] <habsupremer> Does anybody here have brand/shop recommendations, best place to go to buy these?
[10:35] <habsupremer> I'd also like to know how I should choose a chute
[10:36] <daveake> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
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[10:37] <daveake> For the enclosure, if you're in the UK, Hobbycraft have a nice small foam poly box
[10:38] <mclane_> for the chute size look into the ukhas wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart
[10:39] <habsupremer> Should I use styrofoam, polystyrene?
[10:39] <habsupremer> And thanks @mclane
[10:40] <daveake> Steve's site has a chute calculator which is a lot easier to use than that chart
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[10:41] <daveake> Yes any closed-cell polystyrene foam will do
[10:43] <habsupremer> Okay
[10:43] <habsupremer> I am seeing a lot of different stuff around... but it seems rocketman parachutes are the best
[10:44] <habsupremer> Amazon has a Project Aether 9m balloon
[10:44] <habsupremer> If a balloon weighs 1600g, does that mean it can lift 1600m too? And should I count in weight of the chute?
[10:44] <daveake> No it doesn't
[10:45] <daveake> There's a relationship between balloon size, payload weight, how much gas you put in, and how high it will go
[10:45] <daveake> See http://habhub.org/calc/ and have a play, aiming for an ascent rate of about 5m/s
[10:46] <habsupremer> I see the calculator... What is the difference between 'Hwoyee 300' and 'Pawan 300'?
[10:46] <daveake> I like the spherechutes but the tocketman ones are good too
[10:46] <daveake> Different makes of balloon
[10:47] <habsupremer> Which is best? :p
[10:47] <daveake> Depends
[10:48] <daveake> Totex are best at bursting close to specification
[10:48] <daveake> Hwoeyee are cheaper but often go higher for the same balloon size
[10:48] <daveake> Pawan I've noy used much but they seem to rate below the other two
[10:49] <habsupremer> Totex.. kaymont?
[10:50] <daveake> Kaymont sell Totex
[10:52] <habsupremer> What sort of descent rate do I want?
[10:52] <daveake> 5m/s is good
[10:52] <daveake> That's the landing speed; obviously it goes faster up high where the air is thin
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[10:56] <habsupremer> Should I factor in the weight of the balloon in the parachute calculations? When it bursts, will some of it stay attached to the top?
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[10:57] <daveake> Tricky one. If you do, you'll end up with a large chute which falls slowly and increases the chance of the balloon remains catching up with it. When that happens they tend to wrap themselves around the chute, making a much smaller chute.
[10:58] <daveake> So I assume little balloon comes down
[10:58] <daveake> Sometimes you just get the neck of the balloon; sometimes you can get 2/3rds of the balloon come down. It does act as a streamer though and will hopefully stay above the chute
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[10:59] <habsupremer> For a 1kg payload, the 3ft rocketman seems good to me
[10:59] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 3 ft = 0.91 m
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[11:01] <daveake> No, keep it at 5m/s or a tad below
[11:01] <daveake> The 36" sphereachute would be better
[11:01] <daveake> Getting below 1kg would be better too :-)
[11:02] <habsupremer> 36"=3ft
[11:02] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 3 ft = 0.91 m
[11:03] <daveake> Yeah, we don't have an ObviousBot
[11:03] <habsupremer> 3ft chute gives me around 5.5m/s descent... if I go 4ft, I get 4.17
[11:03] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 3 ft = 0.91 m
[11:03] <habsupremer> @bottybot yes I know!
[11:03] <daveake> *If* it ends up being a 1kg payload, then get the sphereachute as that's a close match
[11:04] <daveake> However you don't at this stage know what payload weight you'll have
[11:04] <habsupremer> I think I'll probably get a SPOT tracker to stick inside
[11:04] <habsupremer> And a spare cheap gsm one
[11:04] <daveake> Well, good luck with that
[11:05] <habsupremer> I heard spot has good reviews >)_>
[11:05] <daveake> It doesn't have a great record for hab
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[11:07] <habsupremer> Well it's either that or a load of radio stuff... and I haven't the patience for that :p
[11:08] <daveake> I see
[11:08] <mfa298> the load of radio stuff is likely to get much better results.
[11:08] <daveake> Well, our advice is free unlike the Spot and GSM which you're quite likely to lose
[11:09] <habsupremer> Why lose? SPOT has a global network, doesn't rely on mobile signals
[11:09] <mfa298> the spot will drop out at 18km and I think doesn't tell you what altitude it's at. GPS+GPS might work about 50% of the time and wont do anything above a couple of km
[11:09] <habsupremer> They are just for recovery
[11:09] <daveake> Because if it lands upside down, it won't work at all
[11:10] <mfa298> the "radio stuff" with the right gps and system can give you continuous position data throughout the complete flight meaning you can see where it's predicted to land based on live information
[11:11] <daveake> meaning you can often get to near the landing position before the flight does, and perhaps see it land (rare)
[11:11] <habsupremer> I know. But i haven't really any need for that
[11:11] <daveake> but in any case you'll reciver it earlier which means less chance of someone stealing it (has happened twice at least)
[11:11] <habsupremer> I only hope to retrieve it, and I heard the spot tracker works everywhere
[11:11] <mfa298> being able to get to the payload soon after it lands (if not earlier) can be a huge plus. People have lost (or almost lost) payloads by not being their quickly enough
[11:11] <daveake> Well it doesn't
[11:13] <habsupremer> How so?
[11:13] <habsupremer> I know GSM has limitations
[11:13] <daveake> <daveake> Because if it lands upside down, it won't work at all
[11:14] <habsupremer> Why not? Is this some sort of inherent weakness?
[11:14] <daveake> Because the aerial will be pointing down and the ant colonies don't have GSM satellites
[11:14] <daveake> Also, there's been at least 1 flight where it didn't regain GPS lock after dropping below 18km
[11:15] <mfa298> if it can't see the sky it cant get a location and then upload the position it didn't get
[11:15] <habsupremer> So it doesn't work through the foam?
[11:15] <daveake> Yeah it's possibly the tx aerial pointing down that's the bigger problem
[11:16] <daveake> The aerials are *directional* especially the one it sends the position through
[11:16] <daveake> foam isn't an issue
[11:16] <mfa298> plus I think spot has no altitude information so you don't know if it's going up at 5m/s as intended or 1m/s and heading for a float and not being recoverable
[11:16] <daveake> correct
[11:17] <Darkside> yes, this is a big thing
[11:17] <daveake> yes very
[11:20] <habsupremer> https://balloonnews.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/can-spot-trackers-work-upside-down/ ???
[11:20] <Darkside> short version: balloonnews guy is an idiot
[11:20] <Darkside> hi baloon news guy
[11:20] <Darkside> i think you are an idiot
[11:22] <daveake> I'll go back to my very first comment; Spot doesn't have a good HAB record. Use one and you have a significant risk of losing your payload.
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[11:23] <lz1dev> you could say, it's hard to SPOT
[11:23] <mclane_> and building your own radio tracker is the extra fun of the hobby
[11:23] <Darkside> lz1dev: nice
[11:24] <mfa298> put it another way, there's broadly two groups launching amateur balloons in the UK. the Balloon news guy and the people in here. I think most of the things appearing in the national media are from people in here.
[11:24] <mfa298> (there are a couple of other outfits but they're much more commercial based - and doing things more like the people here)
[11:26] <habsupremer> So balloon news isn't good.?
[11:26] <daveake> You'll have better advice here. Which you have done actually; you just need to accept it.
[11:27] <daveake> And a "lack of patience" was never a good atttribute for a serious hobby like this, especially one with safety implications
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[11:28] <daveake> Patience, patience
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> :)
[11:29] <daveake> My Sill-o-meter just hit 100%
[11:29] <daveake> Shill
[11:30] <Darkside> lol
[11:31] <Geoff-G8DHE_> lz1dev, Tks for the KML fix :-)
[11:31] <mfa298> one of these days I'll do that so you want to launch a balloon page for the wiki with quick sentence about the various things and links to the relevant pages.
[11:31] <diegoesep> for me it has taken 2 years between starting to think about launching /recovering hab and the effective launch/recovery
[11:32] <diegoesep> so Patience was a key part of the project
[11:32] <daveake> Yup. My worry there was that someone without the patience to do tracking properly will also lack patience to wait for the right prediction, or CAA permission
[11:33] <mfa298> there seem to be a lot of people thinking it will be a quick and cool thing to do probably not helped by all the cheap rc helicopters etc now.
[11:34] <diegoesep> and that can be an issue later for other HABers if people start to do weird things with hab
[11:34] <daveake> diegoesep You should see some of the weird emails I get :/
[11:34] <diegoesep> daveake I can imagine :)
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[12:10] <mightymik> needs more action man
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[12:25] <happil> Quick question - can anybody recommend a good action camera with the required long battery life for a hab flight?
[12:28] <Darkside> gopro HD hero (whtever is the newest) + battery pack with 5v regulator
[12:28] <Darkside> plug output of 5v regulator into usb port, and voila
[12:28] <Darkside> with 6x energizer lithium AAs, the batteries will likely last longer than your SD card
[12:30] <daveake> The GoPro "backpac" battery will give you about 3 hours but definitely test that first, making sure the wifi is switched off if it has it
[12:36] <happil> I think that's going to cost a lot
[12:36] <happil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Midland-XTC-400-Action-Camera-Sensor/dp/B00E5CRVDS
[12:36] <happil> ^^ That one is cheaper, and has 5 hours 1080p recording
[12:36] <daveake> Might work might not; AFAIK nobody has flown one yet
[12:37] <happil> Someone has to be the first right?
[12:37] <daveake> Sure no problem with that so long as you realise it might all be a waste of time and effort and money
[12:37] <Geoff-G8-> Bear in mind that the temperatures its going to have to work in
[12:38] <happil> Gopro will have the same issue?
[12:38] <Geoff-G8-> But proven
[12:38] <happil> Plus it's a li-ion battery, and I'm adding heat-packs
[12:38] <daveake> We know that the GoPros work when cold
[12:38] <daveake> We don't know about that camera
[12:39] <daveake> Another factor is that some cameras interfere with the GPS signals.
[12:39] <daveake> "I'm adding heat-packs"
[12:39] <mclane_> consider a raspi + camera module + tracker board from upu
[12:39] <daveake> Why ?
[12:39] <Geoff-G8-> The problem can be getting RID of the heat when there is little air to dissapte it!
[12:40] <happil> Where can I get a battery pack with a regulator?
[12:40] <daveake> Any USB charging battery pack
[12:40] <happil> Like those portable gadget ones?
[12:40] <daveake> Yes
[12:41] <daveake> Re temperature, if you have a camera and a reasonably insulated payload (say 20mm of foam) then the insides won't get below about zero. No need to then add a warmer.
[12:41] <fsphil> don't fly anything you're not prepared to lose, esp. if this is your first flight
[12:41] <daveake> +1000
[12:42] <fsphil> I've done many flights and the only gopro's I've flown where the BBC's :)
[12:42] <daveake> ha :)
[12:42] <happil> So one gopro
[12:42] <daveake> I've flown a few but always with 2 radio trackers
[12:42] <happil> How many lithium AAs?
[12:42] <fsphil> yea I'm going to fly one eventually with a couple of trackers
[12:43] <Geoff-G8-> [12:28] <Darkside> with 6x energizer lithium AAs, the batteries will likely last longer than your SD card
[12:43] Nick change: Geoff-G8- -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[12:44] <daveake> IME the backpac things are fine but you do only get just over 3 hours which might be cutting it fine for a first flight where you might spend an hour messing around before launch
[12:44] <happil> Exactly
[12:45] <happil> I can't find anything with 6AAs
[12:45] <happil> I can find 'emergency' chargers with 2 or 3
[12:45] <fsphil> when I was watching the Orion launch, started wondering if we can do our own external / internal power switch before launch
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[12:46] <x-f> WhiteStar had something like that
[12:46] <fsphil> some kind of switch that only goes to the batteries when external power is removed
[12:47] <daveake> Yeah not too tricky
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[12:52] <luteijn> could use a headphone jack that bypasses/disconnects the connection to the speakers when something is plugged in.
[12:52] <daveake> You might break before making, so the tracker might reboot. Fine for most but perhaps not so good for a Pi
[12:53] <daveake> My idea was to use a Schottky diode from battery to tracker, and to have a slightly higher external voltage direct to tracker
[12:53] <mattbrejza> you could do something with just a PFET
[12:54] <mattbrejza> less lossy than a diode, but depends if you care about that
[12:54] <daveake> yeah that'd be better
[12:54] <daveake> Well for mine, I then put a jumper across the diode :)
[12:55] <daveake> PFET is a neater design certainly
[12:56] <happil> I can't find any 6-AAbattery charger anywhere
[12:56] <happil> How about an Anker external battery pack?
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[12:59] <daveake> They're not as good when cold, but with a decent amount of insulation they should be OK
[13:03] <happil> Which sort of mah do you recommend
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[13:18] <diegoesep> daveake, I've just tested the LoRa with SF12, 20khz, whip antenna for the tracker and 3 elts yagi for the receiver
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[13:18] <diegoesep> and I'm impressed by the results of the LoRa range :)
[13:18] <diegoesep> tests were done at ground level
[13:19] <diegoesep> to compare with my CW beacon performance
[13:19] <diegoesep> and the fact that it can receive data even with signal below noise floor is impressive :)
[13:23] Action: bertrik is tempted to get a pair of those lora modules now
[13:23] <mattbrejza> microchip have licenced the tech, lets hope they do a better job of implementation/writing the datasheet :D
[13:24] <fsphil> pic with built-in lora? that'd be interesting
[13:25] <mattbrejza> eww
[13:25] <bertrik> I'd hook them up through an arduino to act as a kind of SPI bridge
[13:25] <fsphil> yea pic, but still interesting :)
[13:26] <mattbrejza> their product currently seems to be an over the top massive sheilded module
[13:26] <mattbrejza> their BTLE module is smaller
[13:26] <diegoesep> my dream would be to be able to order pcb populated with lora + ublox + mcu
[13:27] <diegoesep> i don't have so much electronic skills at creating my own pcb , i can assemble breakout togethers and proto board
[13:27] <mattbrejza> how about to receive the lora?
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[15:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD5GOM-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=KD5GOM-11
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[15:50] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to use bitflags with the tracker?
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> e.g. sending ,0F, gives 4 set bitflags?
[15:50] <Laurenceb_> the APRS.fi telemetry page has a similar feature
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[15:53] <lz1dev> nope
[15:54] <lz1dev> neither habitat, nor tracker, or aprs importer supports them
[15:58] <paul_HAB-P> Has anybody managed to get the FCD+ dongle working with a Beaglebone black? Been trying with the new Ubuntu 14.04 image but cant detect it with lsusb
[16:00] <Laurenceb_> hmf :-/
[16:00] <Laurenceb_> would be a useful feature
[16:06] <lz1dev> stick it on the tracker's issue page
[16:08] <mattbrejza> sure you cant get habitat to use parse filters?
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[16:12] <lz1dev> mattbrejza: i think the point is how it's displayed
[16:13] <lz1dev> aprs.fi has a tiny box for each bit, and it's darker if it's 1
[16:13] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[16:13] <lz1dev> better than: mybit = 1
[16:13] <lz1dev> mybit2 = 0
[16:13] <lz1dev> etc ;P
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[16:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5NVX after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=SP5NVX
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[16:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03va2mfj_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=va2mfj_chase
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[17:36] <M6XIMan> ping Upu UpuWork
[17:36] <Upu> o7
[17:36] <M6XIMan> Wotcha
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[17:36] <M6XIMan> I'm about to buy something on HAB supplies
[17:36] <Upu> afternoon
[17:36] <Upu> good
[17:36] <M6XIMan> But noticed something odd about shipping costs
[17:36] <Upu> I approve carry on
[17:36] <Upu> oh go on
[17:36] <M6XIMan> First time round it shows P&P without VAT
[17:36] <HF_ATL> hello all
[17:36] <Upu> hi HF_ATL
[17:37] <M6XIMan> But then when you come to checkout it shows it with VAT added to the shipping cost
[17:37] <M6XIMan> There is no VAT on postage :)
[17:37] <Upu> Post Office charge VAT on UK postage
[17:37] <Upu> unless its to say the States
[17:37] <Upu> etc
[17:37] <Upu> so it calculates when it knows where its going
[17:37] <Upu> that price includes VAT I think
[17:38] <M6XIMan> Ahhhh
[17:38] <M6XIMan> No VAT on 1st and 2nd class stamps
[17:38] <M6XIMan> But VAT on other services
[17:38] <Upu> honestly not sure
[17:38] <M6XIMan> That makes sense
[17:38] <M6XIMan> But yeah, on the estimate it shows without VAT first time around
[17:38] <Upu> ok
[17:39] <Upu> £4.60 ?
[17:39] <M6XIMan> Yup
[17:39] <Upu> sounds right
[17:39] <M6XIMan> Then *1.2 later
[17:39] <M6XIMan> The totla is correct
[17:39] <Upu> the final invoice is confusing
[17:40] <Upu> can't do much about it
[17:40] <M6XIMan> So it doesn't mean anyone is being overcharged - although the PayPal invoice looks scary with 11.41 shipping and tax ;)
[17:40] <Upu> opencart
[17:40] <Upu> lol
[17:40] <HF_ATL> hi Upu, hope your Christmas went well
[17:40] <M6XIMan> "we prepare your order with white gloves and individual kisses"
[17:40] <Upu> lol
[17:41] <M6XIMan> Okay, order placed
[17:41] <Upu> thanks will ship tommorrow
[17:41] <M6XIMan> \o/
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[17:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH32-1 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=AETH32-1
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[18:09] <myier> it's not often that balloons get themselves lost in africa
[18:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HA1EM-9 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=HA1EM-9
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[18:24] <myier> that's so awesome http://www.lofibucket.com/articles/oscilloscope_quake.html !
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[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PAYLOAD after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=PAYLOAD
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[19:16] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[19:28] <Myself> that's a great callsign :)
[19:28] <mfa298> someones got a good imagination, they've been using it for a couple of days
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[20:02] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A18C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:06] Stork (~Nineplane@31.211.224.204) joined #highaltitude.
[20:06] <Stork> hello everybody! I have connected the NTX2 according to this guide: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254
[20:06] <Stork> except I use the raspberry pi A+
[20:06] <Stork> with the 5V on the raspberry
[20:07] <Stork> I have used EXACT the same values for R1, R2 and R3 (4,7K and 47K ohm)
[20:07] <Stork> but my channel spacing using SDR# looks like this:
[20:07] <Stork> http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2014/12/29/Data5V.jpg
[20:07] <Stork> I only have ~200Hz spacing...
[20:07] <Stork> whilst according to the guide, I should have ~500hz
[20:09] <mfa298> vcc and en on the ntx2 to 5v is fine.
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> has the raspi an option to set the GPIO pins to output and input as in an AVR for example?
[20:09] <mfa298> where you connected the resistor that goes to vcc might make a difference as the logic on the Pi (what comes out the UART) is only 3v3
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> I once had just 85 Hz when I forgot to set the control pin as an output
[20:09] <mfa298> so you might be better connecting that resistor to 3v3 instead
[20:11] <Stork> i use the UART on the raspberry
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[20:11] <Stork> i connected it EXACTLY like this: http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:linkingntx2-3.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[20:12] <Stork> but with the raspberry instead (GRND-pin, VCC-pin (5v) and UART-TX-pin)
[20:12] <Stork> control pin as output... isnt that only for non-uart?
[20:12] <mfa298> the sums for that will get more interesting as the logic will be changing between 0v and 3.3v but the resistor network is between 0 and 5v.
[20:13] <mfa298> so you're shift might not be as the examples on that page suggest they should be
[20:13] <Stork> I tried to use 3.3V VCC instead on the raspberry (with the same resistors) but then I still only get around ~200hz spacing
[20:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NOTASPOT - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=NOTASPOT
[20:13] <Stork> maybe I should use 3.3V on raspberry but change the value on the 47K-resistor to a lower?
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[20:15] <mfa298> I think those reistor values are for 5v logic, if you plug the values in with 3v3 logic the shift is much smaller
[20:16] <mfa298> I get around 300Hz, but there will be some variation depending on resistor and ntx2 tolerance
[20:17] <Stork> ah... okey. so If I understand correctly... the UART outputs 3.3V?
[20:17] <mfa298> all the logic levels on the Pi are 3v3
[20:17] <Stork> I understand
[20:17] <Stork> that explains a bit
[20:18] <Stork> :)
[20:18] <Stork> thank you for the explanation
[20:19] <mfa298> this may be a better way of connecting it up to a Pi http://imgur.com/UyR2Jha (the battery or reg bit could also be the 5v line on the Pi or direct to the batteries you use - the NTX2 has an internal regulator)
[20:22] <Stork> I'm gonna be honest and say that electronics is not my stuff... the only reason I've connected everything according to that guide is because it shows EXACTLY with pictures how to connect everything on a breadboard and to what pins...
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[20:22] <Stork> with a picture like that I'm not 100% sure how to connect everything in real life :)
[20:23] <mfa298> the only difference to what you did is the resistor you've got that's connected to 5v is instead connected to 3v3.
[20:23] <mfa298> it means the maths for the shift is much easier as it's switching between the values at the top and bottom of the resistor network
[20:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03spaceballoon_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=spaceballoon_chase
[20:25] <Stork> hmm.... not sure I understand. does this mean I have to re-connect the resistor to 3.3V, and connect everything else to 5V?
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[20:26] <mfa298> on the ntx2 the vcc pin provides power to the ntx2 so can connect to anything between 3 and 15v, en is just to turn the ntx2 on so can also be connected to the same place as the vcc line
[20:28] <mfa298> the resistor network is to change the 0-3v3 swing on the pi uart to around 0.2v to give the desired shift
[20:31] <Stork> hmm okey... I'll make a drawing here and double-check with you guys before connecting anything so I wont fry anything :)
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[20:42] <Stork> what values do you propose for the resistors in this example you showed?
[20:42] <mattbrejza> !ping NOTASPOT
[20:42] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Last contact with 03NOTASPOT was 0329 minutes ago
[20:43] <mattbrejza> !whereis NOTASPOT
[20:43] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: 03NOTASPOT was near 03Herefordshire, UK 10(51.95027,-2.54444) at 03145 meters about 0329 minutes ago
[20:43] Action: daveake hides
[20:43] <mattbrejza> :D
[20:43] <mfa298> Stork: depends a bit on what shift you want (which partly depends on what baud rate your using)
[20:43] <mattbrejza> hte irony is that this payload is actually a spot with a ntx2 hacked onto it
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> can I ask a OP question?
[20:43] <daveake> Just testing binary packets on lora
[20:43] <daveake> hah
[20:44] <mattbrejza> what have you gone for? my next step is binary on this thing too
[20:44] <daveake> Just a packed C struct at the mo
[20:45] <mattbrejza> ok
[20:45] <daveake> Just the basics - counter/time/lat/long/alt
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> did you all watch top gear?
[20:45] <mattbrejza> sats?
[20:45] <mattbrejza> i would quetsion if counter is really needed
[20:45] <daveake> forgot to add that
[20:45] <daveake> Doesn't habitat need it?
[20:45] <mattbrejza> dont think so
[20:46] <daveake> ok
[20:46] <daveake> payload ID is just 3 bits and the gateway has a list of payloads to index into
[20:46] <Stork> ahh... good that you are mentioning it! I actually experimented a little bit with the bandwith. With my shift (of around 200hz) I could only max out at around 150baud. Running above that didnt work... is that because of the low shift?
[20:46] <daveake> You need the shift t be .= the baud rate
[20:46] <daveake> >=
[20:47] <Stork> oh
[20:47] <Stork> why is that...?
[20:47] <mfa298> for 3v3 logic 4.7k, 4.7k and 20k give around 600hz shift (which will do most baud rates you might like)
[20:47] <mattbrejza> shift should be integer multiples of baud, but it matters less when shift >> baud
[20:48] <Stork> alright, so If I change my 47K to 20K I should get what I want I guess. I'll try that soon.
[20:48] <mattbrejza> explaination: http://imgur.com/Y6zRxSb
[20:48] <Stork> what's the reason many of the guides run 500-600Hz? why not just run like... ten times that and get ten times the bandwidth? ... I guess some physical limitations set the limit or what?
[20:49] <mfa298> the maths should be on the wiki page and it's probably worth trying to understand how it works (I prefer the link for the alternative explanation)
[20:50] <Ian_> mfa298, is the reason for the shift being multiples of the baud rate a bid to make the signal phase coherent, if that is the correct term
[20:50] <Ian_> ?
[20:50] <mfa298> Stork: with many receivers the bandwidth is limited to somethign like 300-3000Hz (so total 2700Hz), you also want enough space for it to drift so you really want <1000Hz shift
[20:50] <mfa298> Ian_: you want mattbrejza for the explanaton
[20:50] <Ian_> No probs, thanks.
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> you can have shift < baud rate
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> baud rate/2 works quite well
[20:51] <qyx_> yep, msk
[20:52] <mfa298> Stork: you'll also need to alter the receiver bandwidth setting in dl-fldigi for higher baud rates (set it to around the baud rate as a starting point)
[20:52] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb_: you need a coherent demod for that
[20:53] <Stork> cant find the theory on the WIKI... I guess its somewhere here: http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:guides
[20:53] <Stork> ?
[20:53] <Stork> I have some reading to do it seems
[20:54] <mfa298> Stork: the maths bit is at http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254#circuit_diagram althoguh I prefer the linked alternative http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
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[20:54] <Laurenceb_> yeah good point
[20:56] <Stork> this is really a helpful forum, thanks
[20:56] <Ian_> Historic note. Standard RTTY shifts were 850Hz, followed by 425Hz and then 170Hz as the stability of transmitters and receivers improved. In the early 1970s phase coherent tone generation became a big issue to improve performance.
[20:56] <bertrik> I just read in the lora data sheet that the lora mode has a header with the lora parameters of the rest of the packet, convenient
[20:57] <adamgreig> phase coherency gives you 3dB better snr I think? it's just a little nicer
[20:57] <adamgreig> not really important for us as our snr tends to fall off a cliff very rapidly
[20:58] <mattbrejza> yea, as instead of I and Q paths for each frequency you now just have I
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[21:01] <daveake> bertrik yes, optionally
[21:01] <Stork> do I get any improvement to increase the shift? Longer range or something?
[21:02] <adamgreig> well
[21:02] <bertrik> daveake: did you enable it for your tests with the lora modules?
[21:03] <adamgreig> I think so long as your shift is greater (or equal) than the baud rate, there's no improvement in a wider shift
[21:03] <daveake> I've tested with and without
[21:03] <adamgreig> and depending on how you receive it, some potential for disadvantage
[21:03] <Stork> aha I C
[21:03] <Stork> I have a Funcube dongle Pro+... do you think I can use it for HAB? (just using it to experiment now)
[21:04] <adamgreig> yea a lot of people do
[21:04] <adamgreig> works fine
[21:04] <Stork> is it sensitive enough?
[21:04] <daveake> yes it's one of the better options
[21:05] <Stork> good to hear... dont want to invest in more equipment :)
[21:08] <Stork> Sorry for throwing all these questions at you now ... I've really been reading everything I can find on the net but have not found everything. Another thing I was thinking of... how do I know what I should set the serial parameters to in my software? whats the advantage of running 5,6,7 or 8 data bits versus parity on/off and 1 or 2 stop bits?
[21:08] <adamgreig> you want at least 7 bits of data really because 5 bits (baudot) doesn't encode some of the symbols we use, like $ and *
[21:09] <adamgreig> 7 bits does all of ASCII so is fine
[21:09] <adamgreig> but some people find using 8 bits easier if they're using hardware serial ports that only do that, for example
[21:09] <adamgreig> parity off is typical, because we do our own checksums and it's simpler to have it off
[21:09] <adamgreig> 1 or 2 stop bits makes not so much difference. usually people transmit 2 stop bits because it makes it easier for a receive to be in sync
[21:09] <adamgreig> but the receiver could be told there's 1 or 1.5 stop bits and still work
[21:10] <adamgreig> this setting is summarised by 7N1 (7 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit) for example
[21:10] <adamgreig> 7 bits is in theory better than 8 for HAB because that 8th bit is always set to 0 but if means a) transmitting more data (so takes longer) and b) might be in error, so increases risk of errors
[21:12] <Stork> oh, I see. so then I guess dl-fldigi does some sort of checksum-checking or...?
[21:14] <bertrik> yes, the telemetry sentence has a checksum at the end
[21:14] <Stork> so I have to send the telemetry data in a well-specified form...? (now I'm just sending it in my own format)
[21:16] <adamgreig> yes, if you want others to be able to receive it
[21:16] <HF_ATL> also regarding this there is available any standard aprs file to test with the qtmm for decoding? afsk1200 I believe
[21:16] <adamgreig> http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ukhas_parser.html#standard-ukhas-sentences
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[21:24] <Stork> aha... so If I understand correctly.. the CRc-checksum is on the whole line? (all data... lat/lon/altitude/everything)?
[21:24] <adamgreig> yep
[21:25] <Stork> ok
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[21:46] <Stork> sorry going back to the talking about 5 vs 7 vs 8 bits and so forth... is it also recommended to use 7N1 for SSDV?
[21:47] <mfa298> ssdv requires 8 bits
[21:48] <mfa298> you'll also want 300 baud for ssdv otherwise it will take a bery long time to send an image
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[22:00] <Stork> but can I send telemetry data while sending SSDV-data then?
[22:01] <daveake> You can interleave the two
[22:01] <mfa298> you can send an ssdv packet than a telemetry string (or variations of that)
[22:01] <daveake> i.e. Send one more more SSDV packets then a telem packet then back to SSDV
[22:02] <daveake> Generally I do 4:1
[22:02] <mfa298> to truely do both at the same time you need two radios which get's harder on a Pi
[22:02] <daveake> My latest code changes the ratio depending on altitude
[22:02] <daveake> So I get more frequent telemetry as it lands
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[22:07] <Ian_> Historical note. 1.5 stop bits is the standard with 5 unit Murray/Baudot/ITA2 RTTY, also known as seven and a half units. The coding is completely different from ASCII and ideal for communicaiton, was pretty much pre-computer.where a minimalist communications alphabet was ideal.
[22:08] <Ian_> 1.5 stop bits has no place with ASCII 7 or 8 bit transmissions.
[22:08] <Stork> Ahh I see... but when shifting between them, I assume I always run with the same serial settings? (that is, always 8 bit data, no parity and 1 or 2 stop bits?)
[22:09] <Stork> daveake: when you say 4:1... do you mean 4 actual data packets of telemetry or complete 4 lines? (with lat/lon/altitude/etc)?
[22:09] <daveake> 4 SSDV packets then 1 telemetry packet (sentence)
[22:10] <Stork> so, 4*8 bits, then 1*8 bits, then 4*8 bits and so forth...? (not including start/stop bits)
[22:10] <Ian_> If you declare your transmission to be 7 bit two stop bits, then the receiver if declared likewise is ready to receive again immediately after data bit seven has been received (or not). If you declare 8 bit 1 stop bit, the receiver will be in the same state after bit eight and so have less time to recover if it had stumbled.
[22:10] <daveake> no not at all
[22:11] <daveake> an SSDV packet is 256 bytes
[22:11] <daveake> a telemetry packet is $$..........................<CRC><LF>
[22:11] <Stork> alright, now I'm with you :)
[22:11] <daveake> So I'll send (say) 4 SSDV packets, 1024 bytes, then the telemetry
[22:12] <daveake> Otherwise the decoder won't know what's what
[22:12] <Stork> ah... correct
[22:12] <daveake> If you split an SSDV packet it won't work
[22:13] <Stork> but you don't shift the receiver for the serial parameters? you always run 8-ascii, no parity and 1/2 stop bits for both telemetry and SSDV?
[22:13] <daveake> No you musn't change settings
[22:14] <Ian_> The telemetry checksum (CRC) is CCITT-CRC16 and is calculated from everything between the last $ and the * character.
[22:14] <Stork> alright, now im following 100%, thank you
[22:15] <Ian_> Agreed, my earlier comment was when sending/receiving only telemetry.
[22:17] <Stork> okey :)
[22:18] <Stork> now I've changed the 47K-resistor to 22K and connected to 3.3V instead of 5V in raspberry, and now I got a nice 600Hz shift
[22:19] <Stork> or maybe more like 550Hz... anyway it's a lot better
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[22:25] <Stork> noticed one drawback with not using 8-bit ASCII compared to 7-bit ascii :)
[22:26] <Stork> swedish characters åäö dont work ;)
[22:36] <Stork> hm... trying 600bps everything works perfectly... trying 300bps... nope. Doesnt work. why is that?
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> did you set dl-fldigi to the new baudrate?
[22:38] <Stork> yepp!
[22:38] <Stork> everything else (except the baud rate) is being equal
[22:39] <Stork> tried 50baud now... works without any problem also
[22:39] <Stork> and 150 also works..
[22:39] <Stork> but 300... nope
[22:41] <mattbrejza> its the rx filter set high enough?
[22:41] <mattbrejza> *is
[22:41] <mfa298> Stork: have you increased the receive filter bandwidth (near the bottom of the settings page)
[22:43] <Stork> its set to auto
[22:45] <mfa298> auto should work
[22:45] <mfa298> screenshit of the waterfall and setings in dl-fldigi might help
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD!!!!
[22:46] <daveake> hah :)
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> sorry :D
[22:47] <mfa298> who put those letters next to each other on the keyboard.
[22:47] <daveake> some hotshot
[22:47] <mfa298> I blame the Christmas booze (even if I've not drunk any today - maybe that's the issue)
[22:49] <Stork> http://s3.postimg.org/5m7i25p5v/screen.jpg
[22:51] <Stork> I hope the screenSHIT works :) postimg scaled it down... :(
[22:52] <mfa298> I can't spot anything obviously wrong
[22:53] <mfa298> if you've got antennas on the ntx2 and/or FCD it might be worth removing one or both as the signal might be a bit strong
[22:55] <Stork> no antennas
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[22:55] <Stork> yeah thats whats strange... for all other baud settings (50/150/600) it works just fine (even though at 50bps I get quite a lot of errors in reception)
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[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> The audio level is to high, I can just se the red dot far right lower
[23:00] <Stork> hmm im not sure I understand?
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> in Dl-fldigi the audio level is compressing, its shown by the little RED diamond (should be Green) on the status line lower right corner
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> turn the audio level driving into dl-fldigi down
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> click the audio level button in SD# and reduce it
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[23:04] <Stork> ahh... now its green!
[23:04] <Stork> but still the same problem
[23:04] <Upu> 8n2
[23:05] <Upu> not 7n1
[23:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> is the squelch off ? can't see on that screengrab
[23:05] <Stork> why not 7n1?
[23:06] <Upu> is this your own or a Pi In the Sky ?
[23:06] <Stork> squelch...?
[23:06] <Stork> my own
[23:06] <Upu> ah ok sorry I'll shut up
[23:06] <Stork> :)
[23:06] <Upu> night all
[23:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Squelch, closes down the audio level when it sees noise, there is a on/off button and a level control on the lower far right of dl-fldigi
[23:07] <Stork> ah... should "AFC" and "SQL" be green or not?
[23:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> AFC can be on GREEN but squelch OFF nocolour
[23:08] <Stork> ok SQL off, no difference
[23:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> try turning the scope option on in View and see if there is something odd with the waveform ?
[23:10] <Stork> changed from 1 to 2 stop-bits, and now everything is working just fine???
[23:10] <Stork> strange!!
[23:10] <Stork> (changed from 1->2 on both transmitter and receiver of course)
[23:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> maybe yuor stop bit timining is out ?
[23:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> are U bit bashing or usng hardware ?
[23:11] <Stork> hardware-UART built in the raspberry
[23:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> is the clock frequency right ?
[23:11] <bertrik> IIRC, the stop bits setting on reception doesn't really matter
[23:11] <Stork> I have no idea... :) things are getting advanced for me when you are asking questions like that ;)
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> correct provided its set for one bit anything longer on Tx is fine
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> sometimes with hardware driven UARTS the clock frequency can be changed which means that all the timing goes askew
[23:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> it may work at the lower speeds but when it gets faster its more critical
[23:14] <Stork> changed back to 1 stop bit, not working anymore
[23:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Need to make some changes here which needs a reboot of the machine BL
[23:14] <Stork> yeah but when running 600bps then its all working perfectly
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[23:16] <Stork> now running 600bps with 1 stop bit, all working perfectly...
[23:16] <Stork> this is strange :)
[23:16] <Stork> well, anyway time for some sleep.
[23:16] <Stork> thank you all for the help today!
[23:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> right i'm back OK CUL
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 30 2014