highaltitude.log.20141226

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[00:17] Action: amell Did you all see Steve on BBC today?
[00:18] <amell> Supersonic action man with James May
[00:18] <fsphil> yesterday now :)
[00:18] <fsphil> boxing day already. where did the day go
[00:18] <amell> Yep. Just nobody emailed the list about it
[00:19] <amell> Lol when Steve beeped as the payload fell apart on launch
[00:19] <daveake> I said something similar once when a balloon escaped.
[00:19] <daveake> School launch
[00:19] <amell> I thoroughly enjoyed it as I know at least eight of the people in the programme
[00:19] <daveake> Educational
[00:20] <daveake> Nice to see HAB again, but the glider one was a much better programme
[00:20] <amell> Silver discovery whose car is it?
[00:21] <daveake> Hertz probably
[00:21] Action: amell Don't thnk it's Steves
[00:21] <amell> Yeah
[00:22] <daveake> Steve has, or had, a Freelander
[00:22] Action: amell Was this flight back in September or so. Vaguely remember a flight landing near prickwillow
[00:23] <amell> Yeah he does hence my surprise at him driving the silver disco
[00:23] <daveake> August 27/28th
[00:23] <daveake> I might be out by a day :/
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[00:24] <amell> Ah I was in Germany on hols then
[00:24] <daveake> or more ... 13th/14th
[00:25] Action: amell Ca you remember payload name
[00:26] Action: amell Remember it now the secret flights with deployment of a tracker at altitude
[00:26] <fsphil> it was shown in the program at one point
[00:26] <fsphil> in dl-fldigi
[00:26] <daveake> HL1
[00:26] <fsphil> they played enough rtty that you might even get a sentence :)
[00:27] <daveake> hah
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[00:27] <amell> Try and get a sentence off iplayer...
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[00:59] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[08:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03lllllllllll_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=lllllllllll_chase
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[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03lllllllllll_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=lllllllllll_chase
[09:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03lllllll_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=lllllll_chase
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[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH32-4 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=AETH32-4
[11:58] <lz1dev> lolwut
[11:58] <lz1dev> !aprs info aeth32-4
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03AETH32-4 is near 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(36.28337,-28.23372) at 0318201 meters - 12http://aprs.fi/info/AETH32-4
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Path: 03AETH32-4>APRS via 03qAR,CU3CO
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Symbol: 03O/ Speed: 0379kmph Course: 0368°
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Comment: 03G3##,FA0f
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Telemetry: 03Main 101.329 V 03Aux 100 V 03Temp 10-16.1 C 03Sat 105 # 03Alt 1059710 ft
[11:58] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 59710 ft = 18 km
[12:00] <lz1dev> huh, so it fixed itself
[12:00] <lz1dev> good ol' reset i guess
[12:00] <Reb-SM0ULC> cool
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[12:03] <lz1dev> !aprs find CU3CO
[12:03] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03CU3CO is near 03Azores, Portugal 10(38.65699,-27.2275) - 12http://aprs.fi/CU3CO
[12:04] <lz1dev> !hysplit run aeth*
[12:04] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[12:06] <lz1dev> !hysplit run aeth32-4
[12:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
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[12:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=DC2EH-11
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[13:00] <Ian_> Good job too. is AETH32-4 a Loon project balloon or have I got my Christmas memory switched in?
[13:00] <lz1dev> it's not loon
[13:00] <lz1dev> some commercial project
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[13:28] <Ian_> Many thanks for that lzldev.
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[15:04] <qyx_> http://www.space.com/28064-private-moon-drilling-mission-crowdfunding.html
[15:04] <qyx_> wut
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[15:47] <Reb-SM0ULC> short one for dc2
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[15:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:24] <Reb-SM0ULC> ello
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[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> hej
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[17:04] <jet_> Hello
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[17:06] <happil> Hello.
[17:06] <happil> I'm looking to make a high altitude balloon launch
[17:06] <happil> Initially I thought it would be (fairly) simple - balloon, payload, camera, and GPS
[17:07] <happil> Now I come to the UK society website, I am seeing a lot of discussion about a microcontroller and such.
[17:07] <happil> What's all that about?
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[17:10] <SpeedEvil> How do you connect the above?
[17:10] <happil> You don't.
[17:10] <happil> They all go independently into the payload... right?
[17:10] <happil> I'm not intending for live pictures, just recorded ones
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> 'gps' - what do you mean by this
[17:11] <happil> A GPS transmitter
[17:12] <happil> Such as this: http://sentintospace.com/products-page/electronics/locator/#ad-image-0
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Those have issues.
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> They don't work at altitude - where that alitude may vary from 200m-2000m or so
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> And they're not 'developed to' - they've bought a cheap chinese GPS locator and stuck a label on it
[17:13] <happil> Ofc. But surely any reasonably durable (not that specific one) GPS locator would work?
[17:13] <fsphil> those modules only work about 50% of the time
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Tehy may or may not regain lock when falling through the coverage zone
[17:14] <fsphil> think of how many places you've been and not had a phone signal
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> and they may or may not get a signal on the ground
[17:14] <happil> GPS have better coverage though?
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> In short - this sort of GSM module has many problems. You will in general not be able to track in flight
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> GPS has global coverage
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> the issue is what sends that data back
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> GPS/GSM module
[17:15] <happil> Right... I see
[17:15] <happil> So I have to program my own microcontroller and buy antennae and stuff to get it to work properly?
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> http://ava.upuaut.net/
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> is possibly a more useful store
[17:16] <fsphil> what we do instead is have something that transmits a signal directly to the ground
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> http://ava.upuaut.net/?page_id=388
[17:16] <fsphil> which allows us to track a flight for the entire duration
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> And get live, updated landing predictions
[17:16] <fsphil> yes the live predictions is the best invention ever
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Nobodies actually - quite - caught one yet
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> but pretty close
[17:16] <fsphil> nearly
[17:17] <happil> Cool.
[17:17] <qyx_> remember last flight when two gsm trackers failed
[17:17] <fsphil> it's a bit more work than a gsm tracker, but much more reliable
[17:17] <happil> Well, they sell kits, so that makes it easier
[17:17] <fsphil> gsm would be useful for a backup
[17:18] <happil> But I'm seeing a load of stuff about everything being monitored on the hab website
[17:18] <fsphil> but don't rely on it
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> It's a reasonably good arduino project if you want to get into that
[17:18] <happil> How are you people going to see my balloon on your hab site...?
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> happil: If you choose to set it up that way - you can have ~20 people recievingt your balloon
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> Even if it goes out of your range, or you're behind a hill.
[17:18] <happil> Ok
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> This makes things lots more reliable
[17:19] <fsphil> the signal transmitted can be received over a wide area, if you publish details of the launch (location and frequency) then you'll et many people helping you tack it
[17:19] <fsphil> track*
[17:19] <fsphil> get*
[17:19] <happil> Is it best to launch in the country?
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> A typical HAB can be heard over most of the UK, if it's at altitude.
[17:19] <fsphil> sheesh. all this christmas food is affecting my typing
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> happil: Where are you?
[17:19] <happil> South East UK
[17:20] <fsphil> only bad areas are cities, near airports or somewhere with lots of powerlines
[17:20] <happil> Yes... I played around with the landing calculator and if I launched today or tommorrow, it says my balloon would land in France
[17:20] <fsphil> hehe yea
[17:20] <happil> Or the channel.
[17:20] <fsphil> the flaw with living in the east
[17:20] <fsphil> the winds tend to carry stuff further east
[17:20] <fsphil> but not always
[17:21] <fsphil> you'll find it should improve in the summer months
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> The key is to get it so far east, it ends up west.
[17:21] <fsphil> haha yea or that
[17:21] <fsphil> slightly higher skill level required to go around the planet :)
[17:21] <fsphil> leo level
[17:23] <happil> So the idea is to find somewhere to launch from where it will land somewhere good?
[17:24] <fsphil> or pick a spot and wait for good conditions
[17:24] <happil> And if it lands in someones garden? Private property? The sea?
[17:24] <happil> (another country!!?)
[17:24] <fsphil> you can use the predictor to avoid launching when conditions would carry it out to sea or to another country
[17:25] <fsphil> private property, you just have to talk nice to the land owner
[17:25] <Reb-SM0ULC> happil: was a flight with two of those kind of a few days ago. none worked.
[17:25] <fsphil> there are risks, even if you do everything perfectly
[17:26] <happil> Are gopros good to use?
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[17:27] <happil> thanks
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> VEry few cameras have been found to have issues if they're operating on the way up
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[17:27] <SpeedEvil> Unless you try to put a window in to point the camera out of - then things can have issues
[17:28] <fsphil> oops
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[18:05] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[18:29] <Laurenceb__> any git users here?
[18:30] <Laurenceb__> i want to create a .gitignore file, but my .gitignore seems to have no effect on the tracked files
[18:30] <qyx_> it wont have if your files are already tracked
[18:31] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[18:32] <Laurenceb__> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11451535/gitignore-not-working
[18:32] <Laurenceb__> i see
[18:47] <gb73d> http://www.tv-tsenki.com/live6.php
[18:48] <gb73d> rockeytlaunch in about 5 mins
[19:10] <qyx_> Please intall java runtime environment
[19:10] <qyx_> meh
[19:12] <qyx_> ok, works in vlc
[19:12] <qyx_> rtmp://tsenki-live.ngenix.net/live/tsenkitv2.sdp
[19:12] <qyx_> oh, no rocket, too late
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> what sort of rocket was it?
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Soyuz
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> Next monday is what I'm waiting for
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> (10 days time)
[19:24] <ike> what does it carry? People?
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Kerbas.
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> l
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Payload to ISS.
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[19:27] <SpeedEvil> The more interesting aspect is that the first stage is going to attempt a landing on a barge
[19:27] <ike> that is lame
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah F9
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[20:08] <fiftydollarsat> High guys, I was just testing the recieve side of my LoRa tracker (HABAXE2) into Habitat, can anyone confirm it got there ?
[20:09] <lz1dev> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[20:12] <fiftydollarsat> Thanks, it got there, configuration document to come later.
[20:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HABAXE2 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=HABAXE2
[20:18] <Upu> ------/\
[20:18] <Upu> great sucess
[20:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03iepa_chase - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=iepa_chase
[20:20] <fiftydollarsat> And its parsing OK by the look of it now, so time to stop annoying everyone. Flight document sometime Tuesday or Wednesday.
[20:21] <Upu> doubt you're annoying anyone Stuart :)
[20:21] <daveake> What's doing the uploading?
[20:21] <Upu> also are you faking those coords ?
[20:23] <fiftydollarsat> Um well the last 3 were actually LoRa telemetry from the tracker received by my RFM98 shield on put into into DL-FLDIGI.
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[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi chris
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[20:24] <daveake> retransmitted as rtty?
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> Good evening
[20:24] <fiftydollarsat> The GPS side of the tracker has a test mode, so it can work indoors without a GPS, it uses a couple of stored NMEA sentances.
[20:26] <fiftydollarsat> Well RTTY yes, but AFSK RTTY, so being FM the tones will always be the same and it can be left running completely anattended, no re-tuning required.
[20:27] <craag> why?
[20:27] <fiftydollarsat> Why what ?
[20:27] <daveake> It's trivially easy to read a UKHAS sentence from the LoRa device and poke into habitat
[20:27] <craag> Why retransmit as rtty?
[20:28] <craag> ^^ this
[20:28] <lz1dev> maybe he a fan of xzibit
[20:28] <craag> Could do it with an avr and ethernet/wifi interface easy
[20:29] <craag> maybe even a pic
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello craag
[20:29] <fiftydollarsat> IC, its simple for the LoRa reciever to do, one subroutine call in the code, and it works.
[20:30] <kc2pit_> fiftydollarsat: Hey, you seem like exactly the sort who might have researched this. Are there any particular licensing quirks involved in using LoRa on an amateur-licensed satellite?
[20:33] <fiftydollarsat> @kc2pit, there might well be, since the codes that Semtech are using are not known. I have had discussions with $50SAT collegues in the US about it, and you may well need to apply for a experimental license.
[20:34] <kc2pit_> Huh.
[20:34] <fiftydollarsat> For sure there is no guarantee it would be allowed, but its so new I guess no-one has asked yet.
[20:35] <daveake> Doppler would screw it
[20:35] <kc2pit_> daveake: Semtech advertises its tolerance to frequency error. They sell it as the ability to use cheap oscillators, but it's fine with frequency error of something like 30% of its bandwidth.
[20:36] <craag> If you can use the massive bandwidth it's designed for - fine
[20:36] <kc2pit_> (Maybe it was +/- 15%? Don't remember exactly right now.)
[20:36] <fiftydollarsat> Thats unknown, certianly the 41.7khz bandwidth can cope (just) with the typical doppler of 10khz, I already checked,
[20:36] <daveake> They're not fine with the frequency changing during the packet
[20:36] <daveake> They say 25%
[20:36] <daveake> But that wasn't my point
[20:37] <daveake> I have a lora module here which is faulty, and drifts 3-4kHz during the first few seconds, and is then stable
[20:37] <daveake> It doesn't get received
[20:38] <fiftydollarsat> Thay say 25% yes, but I have a sense that the 21.7khz BW cannot cope with a 25% offest as claimed, it seems to be more like 15-20%.
[20:38] <daveake> agreed
[20:39] <fiftydollarsat> As for frequency changes during reception, we thought that might cause problems with the RFM22B telemetry, esspecially when $50SAT was directly overhead, but it proved not to be the case.
[20:40] <daveake> Well this one drifts (on first tx; it's OK for continuous-ish packets) and that first packet hardly ever gets through
[20:40] <daveake> Might keep it for testing :)
[20:40] <fiftydollarsat> And I have two RFM98s here that wont work at 21.7khz, unless you 'calibrate' them for the same frequency.
[20:41] <daveake> Sure well you can easily have 4kHz between them and they only cope with up to about 3kHz
[20:44] <fiftydollarsat> Of course with a satellite, it would not be difficult to have the ground LoRa device track the satellites transmission. Orbitron tracks my Funcube to within a 200hz or so of $50SAT across the 20khz shift during a pass.
[20:44] <mattbrejza> fiftydollarsat: i dunno how you managed to get the carrier to change while tx is in operation, perhaps a slightly different mode to when i tried it
[20:44] <mattbrejza> you could always implement lora for a sdr... ;)
[20:45] <fiftydollarsat> @mattbrejza - you need to study the data sheet a bit more ..................... it is mentioned.
[20:46] <mattbrejza> well the register desciptions were pretty clear that it only changed when not transmitting, so i gave up after reading that
[20:48] <fiftydollarsat> Well, normally that is true, but not always.
[20:49] <mattbrejza> these modules have too many querks for my liking...
[20:49] <mattbrejza> at least using the fifo you dont have to care about timing so much
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[20:50] <fiftydollarsat> Far fewer quirks than the Si4432 I must say, and there is virtually no configuration on the LoRa modem side.
[20:53] <mattbrejza> cant say ive used it
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[21:18] <Reb-SM0ULC> daveake: what's the tx-chip in the sky-pi?
[21:18] <Upu> MTX2
[21:18] <Upu> Radiometrix
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[21:19] <Upu> on the new one anyway
[21:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> ah
[21:20] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/photo%201.JPG
[21:21] <Reb-SM0ULC> oh, copyright until 2314
[21:21] <Upu> yeah just noticed that now
[21:21] <Upu> checking files
[21:22] <Upu> must have just been some dodgy silk
[21:22] <Upu> its 2014
[21:22] <daveake> nah that's a bit of missing paint :)
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[22:39] <Laurenceb_> can anyone here link me to some geofence code written in c thats been flight tested?
[22:39] Action: Laurenceb_ is feeling lazy
[22:45] <daveake> https://github.com/jamescoxon/APRS_Projects
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[22:46] <daveake> Upu has used that code on an AVR and I've used it on a Pi for flights; his was for APRS mine for putting a country plag on the SSDV image :p
[22:47] <daveake> flag
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[22:48] <Laurenceb_> ok cool
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> ive got a µSD card so i might try adding a kml loader
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> wait...
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> pointinpoly is an arduino function?
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> oh i see it now nvm
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[23:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-30 - 12http://habhub.org/t/?focus=PS-30
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 27 2014