highaltitude.log.20141208

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[01:39] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiyrIuotFFA
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[13:36] <Simon__> Can anyone advise on a ublox m8q gps module with arduino?
[13:37] <UpuWork> hi Simon
[13:37] <UpuWork> whats the question ?
[13:37] <Simon__> Ok I have connected as per the wiki and uploaded the sketch but am getting ACK response failed maessages
[13:38] <Simon__> sketch says it should be 4800 baud but am just getting jibberish, only get proper text over 9600
[13:38] <UpuWork> ok so its the level convertor board ?
[13:38] <UpuWork> from Hab Supplies ?
[13:39] <Simon__> Yes the break out board from hab supplies
[13:39] <UpuWork> ok
[13:39] <UpuWork> have you connected EN to VCC on the board ?
[13:39] <UpuWork> you must have I suspect to get anything
[13:40] <Simon__> It seems to start up ok but then just get the same message repeated
[13:40] <UpuWork> those instructions are very out of date
[13:40] <craag> They should be 9600 baud afaik
[13:40] <UpuWork> yes the command isn't being acknowledged
[13:40] <UpuWork> it use to work on the 6 series boards but the 7 and 8 you have to turn off all the NMEA messages
[13:40] <UpuWork> send it
[13:40] <UpuWork> then turn them back on
[13:40] <UpuWork> I should documented it
[13:40] <UpuWork> anyway try this
[13:41] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/BO-M6ALC%20Instructions.pdf
[13:41] <UpuWork> also connect EN to VCC
[13:41] <UpuWork> this will use the hardware serial to prove it works
[13:41] <UpuWork> I'll look to redoing those instructions
[13:42] <Simon__> do you mean connect vcc to en directly on the breakout board?
[13:42] <UpuWork> yes this hardwires it "on"
[13:43] <UpuWork> I'll see if I can get some time this evening to redo that wiki
[13:43] <UpuWork> but I would suggest you use hardware serial anyway
[13:43] <Simon__> Ok tried that, 5v and en both have 5v but still the same
[13:43] <UpuWork> thats correct
[13:44] <Simon__> Hmmmm
[13:44] <UpuWork> EN enables the level convertor on the board
[13:47] <edmoore> photo of your setup Simon?
[13:48] <UpuWork> its the example edmoore
[13:48] <UpuWork> I thought I'd taken it down actually
[13:48] <UpuWork> it reads the GPS via software serial
[13:48] <edmoore> is it actually the example
[13:48] <UpuWork> doesn't work properly
[13:48] <edmoore> or just meant to be the example?
[13:48] <UpuWork> it was just some example code provided to prove the operation of the module
[13:49] <UpuWork> but it no longer fulfils that task
[13:49] <UpuWork> it may do if you turn off NMEA messages
[13:49] <UpuWork> I need to test it
[13:50] <Simon__> I followed the instructions in the pdf and get no data over the serial monitor
[13:52] <Simon__> How do I send a photo on here? Im just using a breadboard to test with arduino uno
[13:55] <UpuWork> did you unplug the module before programming it ?
[13:55] <craag> Simon__: Stick it up on http://imgur.com/
[13:57] <Simon__> No module was plugged in and wired up during programming
[13:58] <UpuWork> Instructions do say "Without connecting anything open a new Arduino sketch as follows"
[13:58] <UpuWork> no module or no the module ?
[13:59] <Simon__> Sorry I meant when I tried the sketch from the wiki
[13:59] <Simon__> It was unplugged prior to trying the pdf instructions
[13:59] <UpuWork> ok
[13:59] <UpuWork> that should work, try switch RX and TX over
[14:00] <UpuWork> and yes take a picture and upload it to imgur.com
[14:00] <mattbrejza> 13:40:07 < Simon__> It seems to start up ok but then just get the same message repeated
[14:00] <Simon__> Reversed rx and tx, still no data
[14:01] <mattbrejza> you had it working fine earlier?
[14:01] <Simon__> In that it started the script but when it got to the ACK part it just keeps saying failed
[14:01] <UpuWork> yeah it will
[14:02] <UpuWork> the code no longer works so please disregard it
[14:02] <Simon__> I will hook it up the way I had it and send a photo
[14:03] <Simon__> Ok
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[14:14] <Simon__> So photo no good now?
[14:18] <UpuWork> well the linked PDF should work
[14:18] <UpuWork> as all you are doing is turning the Arduino into an FTDI USB to serial convertor
[14:18] <UpuWork> so go back wire it up like it says with the addition of EN on the GPS board linked to VCC
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[14:31] Nick change: day- -> day
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[14:41] <Simon__> Ok I now have stuff like:
[14:41] <Simon__> $GNGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*56 $GNGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*2E $GNGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*2E $GPGSV,1,1,00*79 $GLGSV,1,1,00*65 $GNGLL,,,,,,V,N*7A $GNRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*4D $GNVTG,,,,,,,,,N*2E
[14:41] <Simon__> scrolling in the serial monitor
[14:42] <pc1pcl-qrl> looks like 'it works' then.
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[14:48] <UpuWork> that works then
[14:48] <UpuWork> stick it by a window and you should start to see some time
[14:48] <UpuWork> you can now close Arduino studio thingy down
[14:48] <UpuWork> open U-Center
[14:48] <UpuWork> point it at the Arduino com port
[14:48] <UpuWork> and see lots of interesting stuff
[14:50] <Simon__> U center doesnt have a mac version I dont think
[14:51] <Simon__> Now my arduino app is knackered, going well today!
[14:51] <Simon__> Will try later, thanks for helping me out
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[15:18] <guido_> !ping b-64
[15:18] <SpacenearUS> 03guido_: Last contact with 03B-64 was 0315 days ago
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[15:21] <SpeedEvil> :/
[15:21] <arko> guys
[15:21] <arko> she's gone
[15:22] <arko> i just reached the acceptance stage
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Likely still up.
[15:23] <arko> yeah, but i doubt the battery will recharge at this point
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> Does the SMPS een start up at all if Vbatt=0
[15:24] <arko> i dont think so
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[15:28] <guido_> do you know if b-64 shared the same transmitter for sending on 70cm (contestia) and 2m (aprs) ?
[15:28] <guido_> or how was this done?
[15:30] <craag> Yes, it was an si4064 transmitter for both I believe
[15:30] <craag> 406x at least
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[16:01] <Laurenceb_> anyone know how to copy and paste between two eagle schematics?
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[16:04] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:06] <craag> afternoon Lunar_Lander
[16:06] <Lunar_Lander> thank you
[16:06] <Lunar_Lander> hope all is well
[16:07] <craag> yeah good ta, you?
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> same here, thanks
[16:09] <mikestir> Laurenceb_: highlight the stuff, select copy, right click "copy group"
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> aha
[16:10] <mikestir> then change schematic and past
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[16:10] <mikestir> e
[16:10] <Laurenceb_> eagle is sooooi confusing
[16:10] <mikestir> as pcb cad tools go it has one of the least crazy UIs
[16:11] <adamgreig> kicaddddddd just use kicad
[16:13] <mikestir> adamgreig: are you using the bleeding edge kicad?
[16:14] <Maxell> bleeding edge kicad is only kicad worth even installing
[16:14] <mikestir> that's the impression I got
[16:15] <mikestir> I was slightly surprised that the stable version, which hasn't even got a parts library that includes the footprint, was even considered anything other than a curiosity
[16:18] <mikestir> but even in bleeding edge the schematic editor doesn't even seem to have basic stuff like rubber-banding. Moving a symbol means you have to manually redraw the nets, or am I doing it wrong?
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[16:26] <nats`> mikestir the schematic part is weak yes
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[16:26] <nats`> but at least it's easier to do modification by hand in schematic than in layout
[16:26] <nats`> secondly footprint and schematic symbol are separated on kicad
[16:26] <nats`> you can't really bind them before editing the netlist
[16:26] <nats`> it has pros and cons
[16:27] <nats`> I'm a fan of kicad but against this idea
[16:27] <adamgreig> you can actually these days, the schematic symbols all have a footprint property which you can set to whatever footprint you want
[16:27] <mikestir> bleeding edge does away with that I believe, although they still don't have the concept of a symbol and a part
[16:27] <nats`> you can in some way bind them by specifying the package name in the good field in the schematic symbol
[16:27] <adamgreig> but you don't have to, which i find really nice
[16:27] <nats`> in that case it'll only show compliant package
[16:27] <adamgreig> mikestir: 'move' vs 'drag', use 'G' (or right-click, drag) to rubber-band
[16:27] <nats`> adamgreig it'll not limit the pacakge
[16:27] <nats`> it'll just change the view in cvpcb
[16:28] <nats`> you can still take the wrong package even when specified in schematic
[16:28] <adamgreig> ?
[16:28] <adamgreig> no
[16:28] <adamgreig> like I don't even use cvpcb
[16:28] <adamgreig> if you set the footprint in the schematic editor, when you save the netlist it keeps the footprint
[16:28] <nats`> let me retry but pretty sure you can change it anyway in cvpcb
[16:28] <adamgreig> you don't need the cvpcb step at all
[16:28] <nats`> just change the filter
[16:28] <adamgreig> you could load cvpcb if you wanted and change it again
[16:28] <nats`> yep that's what I mean
[16:28] <adamgreig> but like, of course you can always change it agian, you could just edit the .net file
[16:29] <nats`> it's not a solid association like in mentor or other cad
[16:29] <adamgreig> I guess? it's just as solid if you set it in the schematic editor and don't run cvpcb
[16:29] <adamgreig> but yea it's different concept to eagle
[16:29] <adamgreig> bbl
[16:29] <mikestir> it sounds more similar to the way mentor does it, where schematic and pcb are really only connected via the packaging step
[16:31] <nats`> mikestir on mentor it depends if you use the library manager you can't change anything
[16:31] <nats`> you need to modify the component
[16:31] <nats`> it comes with his own sch + package
[16:31] <nats`> (sometime it's a pain in the ass to make an alternate footprint)
[16:33] <mikestir> I find it extremely annoying that you can't see the cell in the library manager unless you have an expedition license, or a specific license manager license
[16:34] <mikestir> s/license manager/library manager/
[16:34] <mikestir> I often work with just a floating dx designer license and it's essentially impossible to properly verify a part without borrowing a dongle for expedition
[16:35] <nats`> uhhhh
[16:35] <nats`> we all have the dual licensing here
[16:35] <nats`> I didn't know they blocked that
[16:35] <nats`> it's stupid
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[16:36] <mikestir> yeah they block everything. want to export the pdb as text? extra license
[16:37] <nats`> yep for hkp decrypt
[16:37] <nats`> all of this is magnificient bullshit.. sadly CAD world is mainly bullshit and heavy licensing
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[17:12] <esculca> guys...
[17:13] <esculca> having a lot of trouble getting this rf98h to operate in rtty mode
[17:13] <esculca> dammm
[17:13] <esculca> rf98w
[17:15] <craag> How are you trying to do it?
[17:17] <esculca> hard to undestand the code you pointed me out
[17:18] <esculca> well, gotta put some more effort on it
[17:18] <esculca> I cannot seem to get the carrier on
[17:18] <esculca> on the SDR
[17:18] <craag> do you understand what you need to do?
[17:19] <craag> and that you can't do it by manually shifting a carrier
[17:19] <craag> (unless you use the async pin)
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[17:20] <esculca> what pin is that? async?
[17:21] <craag> So as you can't bodge it by changing the frequency of the carrier as we did with the rfm22, you have to use the built-in FSK packet modem
[17:22] <craag> This modem either reads out of the fifo, at a minimum speed of 300bps (iirc?), and so you can send rtty by oversampling the bits (send several 1's for each 1, etc)
[17:22] <craag> Or the modem can use a DIO for input, and so you can drive that directly with 1 and 0 and manage the timing on the MCU
[17:22] <mattbrejza> 600
[17:23] <craag> You jsut need to set frequency and shift in the FSK modem settings first
[17:23] <esculca> that DIO might be a good solution
[17:24] <esculca> damm
[17:24] <esculca> I didn't connect the DIO to the MCU
[17:24] <esculca> :(
[17:24] <craag> heh, you're in the same boat as mattbrejza then
[17:24] <craag> (hence why he wrote the code I linked you to do the oversampling method)
[17:25] <mattbrejza> i just had to replace a dodgy rfm
[17:25] <mattbrejza> was putting out 15dB less
[17:25] <mattbrejza> yay specans
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[17:26] Action: craag -> home
[17:26] <esculca> well, I guess I have to keep working on thsi
[17:27] <esculca> and figure it out
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[17:27] <esculca> but whye can't we change the carrier frequency?
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[17:29] <mattbrejza> because that would be too easy
[17:29] <esculca> ha ha ha
[17:29] <esculca> so what?
[17:30] <esculca> i want to to be simple
[17:30] <esculca> relieable
[17:31] <esculca> wht not?
[17:31] <esculca> why not, sorry?
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[17:31] <mattbrejza> it just wont let you change the carrier freq when its active
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[17:32] <esculca> ok
[17:33] <esculca> btw, craag and mattbrejza where are you from?
[17:33] <mattbrejza> uk
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[17:34] <esculca> i am from Portugal
[17:35] <mattbrejza> :)
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[17:51] <Stork> looking for a GPS unit that will work > 18000m without reprogramming, apparently the lassen IQ was popuplar but not longer produced
[17:51] <Stork> will this work?
[17:51] <Stork> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trimble-Lassen-SQ-Low-Power-Micro-8-Channel-GPS-module-/250851623788?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Amplifiers&hash=item3a67ec036c
[17:51] <Stork> lassen SQ
[17:52] <Stork> it says: Altitude <18000m or velocity <515m/s (COCOM limit)
[17:52] <Stork> Either limit may be exceeded but not both
[17:52] <Stork> but I want to be sure :)
[17:53] <mattbrejza> the lassen is fine
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[17:54] <mattbrejza> but why not get a new ublox for about the same price?
[17:56] <Stork> but the ublox I came across need reprogramming to work for more than >18000m? I only have the RX-port on my raspberry free (the TX is used to the radio)
[17:56] <mattbrejza> you can connect them both to the rpi tx port. the gps will ignore the 50baud signal
[17:56] <mattbrejza> or you can make a multiplexer out of a resistor and a spare GPIO
[17:57] <Stork> but the radio will not ignore the GPS signal I guess
[17:57] <mattbrejza> well itll just mean at turn on you get a few ms of 9600 baud signal
[17:57] <mattbrejza> which is fine
[17:59] <Stork> aha, not too good at electronics have just seen pictures from people that have connected gps to RX on Raspberry ... not GPS and radio to TX on raspberry
[17:59] <Stork> at the same time :)
[18:00] <mattbrejza> the antenna requirement for the lassen is annoying
[18:00] <mattbrejza> but otherwise is fine
[18:00] <mattbrejza> but old
[18:01] <Stork> aha, I thought the lassen SQ was a replacement for the IQ?
[18:01] <mattbrejza> i thought the SQ was the slightly different version of the iQ
[18:02] <Stork> your guess is probably more correct :)
[18:03] <Stork> how about the annoying antenna requirement? will not this work without problems? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-Antenna-MCX-for-Trimble-Lassen-iQ-module-LP-GPS-board-LP-module-SQ-module-/181599776500?pt=GPS_Antennas&hash=item2a4830aef4
[18:04] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/rPM5N5W
[18:04] <mattbrejza> yea itll work, but thats massive compared to what you need for a ublox
[18:04] <mattbrejza> anyway, that pic ^ is how you can connect radio and GPS to the uart at the same time
[18:05] <mattbrejza> and have the gps ignore the 50baud signal
[18:06] <Stork> wow, really good help here! :) but I thought you were supposed to connect the GPS to the serial-RX on the RPI?
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/ also - http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_64
[18:06] <mattbrejza> nope
[18:07] <mattbrejza> rpi tx -> gps rx
[18:07] <mattbrejza> the labelling is from the point of view of that device
[18:08] <mfa298> you have both tx & rx connected to the gps, rpi tx goes to both the radio and gps rx
[18:08] <Stork> so what about the GPIO in the picture?
[18:09] <mattbrejza> well that just saves the gps getting annoyed
[18:09] <mattbrejza> itll work without it, but i would do as i posted as its just better practice
[18:10] <Stork> any GPIO-pin?
[18:10] <mfa298> the gpio is there to stop the gps seeing packets meant for the radio, You could probably do sometyhing similar on the radio connection to stop the radio seeing gps commands (although there's not a huge benefit in that)
[18:11] <mattbrejza> any pin that can be an output or input and you can change between out and in
[18:11] <mfa298> or using something that has multiple uarts (or can do realtime timing to generate the rtty via software timing)
[18:11] Action: mfa298 has been having a week or two of RPi hatred
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[18:12] <mattbrejza> i thought that gave really badly timed rtty?
[18:12] <Stork> I only have the RPI, really cant afford anything new :/
[18:13] <Stork> the u-blox seems pretty expensive... the cheapest I can find is this:
[18:13] <Stork> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-Positioning-Module-NEO-6M-U-blox-6-NEO-6M-0-001-Module-/261478905668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce15b7744
[18:13] <Stork> and that is without an antenna...
[18:13] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I was thinking second gpio on the ntx2 side in the same way as your gps one - so you can pull the radio connection high whilst talking to the gps. (or go down the uC route where timing is better)
[18:13] <mattbrejza> habsupplies has reasonable shipping to the states and you dont have to pay VAT either (saves 20% of the price)
[18:14] <Stork> I have to pay VAT, I'm in EU
[18:14] <mattbrejza> oh i just assumed US due to the $ and .com
[18:14] <Stork> pretty much buy everything from Ebay.com :)
[18:14] <mfa298> you can get NEO modules from china with antenna and on a breakout board for similar price to that raw module
[18:15] <mattbrejza> they arnt legit modules though
[18:15] <Stork> any drawback with the breakout board?
[18:15] <mfa298> or use a habsupplies breakout which are known good.
[18:16] <mattbrejza> well the breakout which has the antenna attached will need appropriatly placing in the box
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[18:18] <Stork> like this for instance? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ublox-u-blox-6-NEO-6M-GPS-Module-With-Antenna-Build-in-EEPROM-for-Arduino-Raspbe-/131371358901?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9657dab5
[18:18] <Stork> thats pretty cheap, free shipping too. it also seems to save data in EEPROM, which means I could configure it just once
[18:18] <Stork> and then leave it
[18:19] <mattbrejza> thatll be a fake ublox module though
[18:19] <mattbrejza> although the fakes people have taken appart seem to have a legit IC and cloned pcb
[18:20] <Stork> hmm, okey... :/ I have to keep costs down, as the permission for HAB here in Sweden is extremely expensive. 4200SEK ~ 355GBP just for one flight
[18:20] <Stork> and when applying for the permission you don't have any guarantee you will actually get approven (but still have to pay)
[18:20] <mattbrejza> eek
[18:20] <mattbrejza> and if its windy can you move it?
[18:20] <Stork> no
[18:20] <Stork> one chance. if bad weather, bye bye 355GBP
[18:21] <mattbrejza> it would almost be cheaper to drive to hte UK
[18:21] <Stork> yeah, thats one of my plans actually
[18:21] <mattbrejza> /boat/whatever
[18:21] <Stork> a flight ticket to the UK and running it from there will be cheaper
[18:22] <Stork> it was only 1400SEK one year ago, but they raised it since 1'th of january to 4200SEK
[18:22] <Stork> and I heard that the price might double within one year. 700+ GBP for the permission for every flight really kills the hobby here
[18:22] <mfa298> interestingly, remembering the conversation about cheap ubloxes and qr codes I just scanned the two I've got and the QR matches the serial number on the sticker, and they're both different
[18:23] <mattbrejza> and those are ebay jobs?
[18:23] <mfa298> they are
[18:23] <mattbrejza> fairly sure chris' thing read 0123456789
[18:24] <mfa298> whether they're legit inside who knows ...
[18:24] <mfa298> I remembered chris' ones being something like that - it wasn't random at least and I think the QR didn't match the printed number
[18:25] <Stork> hmm... so the HABsupplies GPS is the best route to go?
[18:25] <mfa298> I wasn't too bothered with these, I wanted something I could look at sticking on a ukhasnet node cheaply rather than something to fly (I'd stick to hab supplies ones for a flight)
[18:26] <mattbrejza> is this before habsupplies got cheaper?
[18:28] <mfa298> I think so - although I think they were still cheaper - but then big chunky neo modules
[18:29] <Stork> what does the permission for one flight in the UK cost?
[18:29] <mattbrejza> 0
[18:29] <Stork> what??
[18:29] <Stork> and here a fortune... :(
[18:33] <Stork> hmm... found three other guys trying to do HAB here last year. all of theirs permissions did not pass (but they still had to pay the fee)
[18:33] <Stork> I'll think I skip this :/
[18:33] <mattbrejza> was a reason given?
[18:34] <mfa298> these are the neo modules I got back in June http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390664152897
[18:34] <Stork> I'll ask...
[18:34] <mfa298> I ought to actually connect one up to something and have a play with it
[18:34] <Upu> there must be a silo full of those damn things
[18:34] <Upu> new designs coming out still using 6M's
[18:34] <mattbrejza> say if it was denied because they asked for a spot under an airport approach then you can ask for one further away
[18:35] <Stork> nope, far away from everything. it was because they only give permission if it is for scientific purpose
[18:35] <Stork> not for hobby
[18:35] <mattbrejza> oh right
[18:36] <mattbrejza> yea i wouldnt bother then
[18:36] <Stork> I'll guess I have to build it here and then fly to the UK...
[18:36] <Stork> pretty silly
[18:36] <mattbrejza> is there a 'pico' exemption over there?
[18:36] <mattbrejza> (you dont need permission for <2m)
[18:36] <mfa298> Upu: and with standard chinese marketing, 5V suitable as it has an LDO but no level converters for the serial port (which I'm assuming isn't specced as 5v tolerant)
[18:37] <Upu> it isn't
[18:37] <Upu> and yes they just feed directly in
[18:37] <Stork> so basically, this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_64&product_id=107
[18:37] <Stork> and:
[18:37] <mfa298> at least on that one they give the schematic so you can see it's not fully 5v tolerant.
[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 032 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PI_SKY_PLUS
[18:38] <mfa298> Stork: if you want to save tricky soldering from a trusted supplier you might be better with http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[18:39] <Stork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=111
[18:39] <mfa298> or when in stock there's also http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=95
[18:39] <Upu> Also all my ublox are genuine and if you need to speak to me I'm right here
[18:40] <Stork> ah!
[18:40] <Upu> I can't beat the chinese
[18:40] <Upu> but the chinese don't run the habhub servers
[18:41] <Stork> I'm not 100% sure about this: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[18:41] <mfa298> and if you're lucky you've probably had a PM by now as well
[18:41] <Stork> is the antenna attached alreadty there?
[18:41] <mfa298> Stork: the little white thing at the top is the antenna
[18:41] <Upu> oh yeah use UKHAS discount code at the checkout
[18:41] <Upu> thx mfa298
[18:42] <Upu> I forgot
[18:42] <Stork> is that enough for an antenna? it's really small... :)
[18:42] <Upu> you can publish that one
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[18:42] <mfa298> and is generally good enough for hab flights (just don't have it too close to sources of interference)
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[18:44] <Upu> yeah they work fine under an open sky
[18:44] <Upu> not great in doors
[18:45] <Upu> and don't stick a cheap camera near any of them
[18:45] <Stork> Im going to use the RPI original camera...
[18:45] <Upu> thats fine it can go on the end of a ribbon cable
[18:46] <Stork> thank you!
[18:46] <mfa298> I think the Pi composite port can also be a source of interferrence, but if the gps is on short wires you should be fine.
[18:46] <mfa298> test well before launching
[18:47] <Stork> I sure will. will this GPS work with the RPI (3.3V) without problems?
[18:47] <daveake> You can turn the composite off
[18:47] <mfa298> I've got one on a Pi and don't have much problem getting a lock with it out the window and that's fairly close to the composite port
[18:47] <daveake> saves 20mA too :)
[18:47] <Stork> yeah composite is already off!
[18:48] <Stork> amazing that it works with this small antenna!!!
[18:48] <Stork> currently I'm using a cheap 433mhz-transmitter (costed me about 1GBP)... but I see most of you use something called NXT2...
[18:48] <Stork> sorry, meant NTX2
[18:49] <mfa298> ntx2b which you can get from the same trusted source as the gps
[18:50] <Stork> looking at the datasheet: http://www.radiometrix.com/files/additional/NTX2B.pdf
[18:50] <Stork> I just connect RPI 3.3V to the VCC-pin? and RPI TX (RTTY) to pin7 on the NTX2B?
[18:51] <Stork> (and of course ground)
[18:51] <mfa298> you'll need some resistors as well to reduce the frequency shift
[18:52] <Stork> aha, some resistors between RPI TX and PIN7 on NTX2B?
[18:52] <Stork> (sorry for my newb-questions, the transmitter im using now is directly connected to RPI TX without resistors=
[18:52] <mfa298> something like what's described in http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1399496254
[18:53] <mfa298> (note that's an old version of the page as a better way of doing it on the arduino has been documented)
[18:53] <Stork> wow, pictures like this one scares me:) http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_1_47k.png?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[18:54] <Stork> wish there was a picture side-by-side to this showing this on a breadbord... :)
[18:54] <mfa298> it's just a diagramatic version of http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:linkingntx2-2.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[18:54] <Stork> so I wont have to fry anything :)
[18:55] <Stork> thank you mfa298!
[18:55] <mfa298> but don't fly things on breadboard like that, go for something that's soldered.
[18:55] <Stork> yeah, but I'm using the breadboard here (my first one!) just to experiment :)
[18:55] <mfa298> that picture is just a bit lower down on the page I linked
[18:56] <mfa298> breadboard can be ok for experimenting (although it has been known to also introduce odd effects as well)
[18:57] <Stork> ahh in this picture they are using the arduiono... not the RPI
[18:58] <mfa298> you'll want to ignore all the code and arduino bits. But the resistor setup for the ntx2b is what you'de want, then connect to the RPi serial tx instead of the arduino gpio
[19:01] <Stork> yeah I've written the code for my current low-spec-transmitter so I hope that will still work. so just to be sure: 1: instead of arduino GPIO it's RPI serial tx, 2: VCC here is 3.3V VCC in RPI?
[19:02] <mfa298> that's the easy approach
[19:02] <Stork> but not the good? :)
[19:03] <Stork> will the NTX2 work without an external antenna for labbing purpose?
[19:03] <mfa298> slightly more complex route is the resistor connected to vcc (R5 in the diagram) goes to 3v3, but the ntx2b VCC and EN go to the rpi 5v
[19:04] <Stork> and the benefit of that is...?
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[19:07] <mfa298> the 3v3 on the Pi (at least the original A & B) doesn't have a lot of spare power (especially with the PiCam)
[19:08] <mfa298> quick sketch of roughly what I described http://imgur.com/yyY4XN7 (note this one shows a seperate power source for the ntx2)
[19:08] <Stork> aha... yeah and then the GPS also needs 3.3V
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[19:11] <mfa298> I think officially the non plus Pi can provide 50mA on 3v3, GPS can be more than that (although that should only be briefly), ntx2 just gives something that's easy to power off something else (it has an internal regulator for what it needs)
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[19:12] <Stork> aha ...
[19:12] <mfa298> ntx2b looks to be around 20mA
[19:12] <Stork> this picture: http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_1_47k.png?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2, does this mean that the NTX2 needs 2X3.3V?
[19:13] <mfa298> the VCC pin provides power for the module, the EN pin turns it on and off
[19:14] <mfa298> the standard practice is to tie EN to VCC so it's always on although you could connect EN to a gpio allowing you to turn the radio on and off.
[19:15] <mfa298> on my dev system I have EN on a gpio as I don't want to transmitting all the time (the Pi often just gets left on) but for a flight I'd probably tie EN to VCC so it stays on even if there's an issue with whatever drives it
[19:15] <Stork> yeah but I was more thinking that according to above scheme it looks like TX-pin also needs 3.3V?
[19:16] <mfa298> the VCC into TX is via the resistor. And the resistor network is to alter the shift in frequency.
[19:17] <mfa298> basicly the carrier frequency coming out of the ntx2 is based on the voltage going into the tx pin, a 0-3V shift gives a 6000 Hz frequency shift
[19:17] <mfa298> we normally want something that's 100-600Hz shift.
[19:17] <Stork> but I thought the TX-pin on RPI gave 3.3V?...
[19:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-9 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=KF5PGW-9
[19:18] <mfa298> so the resistor network takes 0-3.3v in, and gives a much smaller shift out (something like 0.2v difference between high and low)
[19:19] <Stork> aha, I see
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[19:19] <mfa298> If you learn about ohms law and the equations for resistors in parallel and series the maths below the diagram (or follow the link for an alternative) should make some sense
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[19:20] <mfa298> I find the alternative (http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg) easier to follow
[19:24] <Stork> yeah... electronics is not my thing (writing software is)... this will take some time for me
[19:25] <Stork> http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2b-2.jpg?id=guides%3Alinkingarduinotontx2
[19:25] <Stork> here its connected without any resistors? seems easier? :)
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[19:27] <mfa298> I think that's using PWM on the Arduino to generate different voltages but relies on the good timing on the arduino to generate the rtty
[19:27] <Stork> I wish there was a step-by-step guide for the RPI on this site with pictures :)
[19:27] <mfa298> doing that is harder on the Pi as accurate timing is much harder
[19:27] <Stork> seems the arduino is more used
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[19:28] <mfa298> depending on your coding skill it's possible to use PWM on the Pi but you'll need to run the process with a realtime scheduler and have fast (direct memory) access to the gpio
[19:29] <Stork> yeah thats why I want to use the RTTY on the RPI
[19:29] <mfa298> so pretty much C or ASM
[19:29] <mfa298> which is why most people use the uart on the Pi to generate rtty as that handles all the timing.
[19:30] <Stork> exactly... the delay(500) in the example in the link might or might not be 500ms in the rpi, depending on
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[19:32] <mfa298> If C/C++ don't scare you too much it's possible to do it via PWM and a delay() type setup. I've done that but the rtty thread had to run at a high priority and with a realtime scheduler for the timing to be good enough (and still wasn't perfect)
[19:33] <mfa298> there is some stuff on the Pi and hab at http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:raspberrypi although it's possibly a bit out of date and may not have much useful stuff on it
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[19:35] <Stork> yeah I've read that page but didn't find it useful as there were no schematics/pictures to show how it's all connected
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[19:38] <Stork> anyway, to sum up... I now know what GPS-module and TX-transmitter I should buy from the HAB-store.
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[19:38] <Stork> both the GPS and NTX2 will be connected to the TX of the RPI
[19:39] <Stork> the NTX2 requires both of the 3.3V gpio-pins on my raspberry?
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[19:40] <Stork> and the GPS also requires one of the two 3.3V
[19:40] <Stork> meaning that hopefully they wont be used at the same time (because of the 50ma limit on each one of these portS)
[19:42] <daveake> There's no real 50mA limit
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[19:45] <chrisstubbs> Is there any preference to coax type for 70cms?
[19:45] <chrisstubbs> I have used RG58U for most of my stuff, but is there a better choice
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[19:46] <Stork> so having both the NTX2 and a GPS to 3.3V on RPI should be no problems?
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[19:49] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: depends a bit on how long you need and how deep your pockets are
[19:49] <chrisstubbs> not very and not very, just thinking about picking up a reel on my CPC order for bits and bobs
[19:50] <mfa298> I've used RG174 and RG58 for very short runs
[19:50] <chrisstubbs> Whats the next step up?
[19:50] <daveake> RG213
[19:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC10 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC10
[19:51] <mfa298> My list is RG174 -> RG58 -> RG213 -> Westflex 103
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[19:52] <mfa298> westlex is nice for semi permanent installs but it's not as flexible and can be a pain putting N connectors on it
[19:57] <Stork> thank u for all the help
[19:59] <Upu> mfa298 I use it on the rotator with no issues
[19:59] <Upu> but yes the N-Connector soldering is fun
[19:59] <Upu> chrisstubbs
[19:59] <Upu> here ?
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> yo
[19:59] <Upu> pm
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[20:02] <mfa298> Upu: I've seen reports that the foil can crack/tear as it moves which can affect it a bit (although probably not enough that most people would notice)
[20:02] <Upu> I've yet to notice any drop off
[20:02] <Upu> but it is stiff
[20:02] <mfa298> and mine's been used for things where it's up for a few days then taken down again.
[20:03] <Upu> Been up 2 years and used fairly regular
[20:03] <Upu> and thanks to Leo and jededu it gets to work the full 360
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[20:03] <mfa298> but I'd probably use rg213 for an afternoon outing as it's a bit easier to work with
[20:05] <mfa298> it's probably fractions of a dB extra loss at most so probably not something most of us would ever notice. although I was thinking more of the stiffness for handling it.
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[20:08] <Upu> when it does break
[20:08] <Upu> it will give me an excuse to
[20:09] <Upu> a) Put the antenna on the right way up (up is down and vice versa)
[20:09] <Upu> b) Put a preamp on the mast
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[20:50] <mfa298> wow, from a raspberry Pi: 20:49:39 up 124 days, 0 min, 1 user, load average: 0.09, 0.04, 0.05
[20:51] <mfa298> must be due some updates and a reboot
[20:53] <lz1dev> ksplice it
[20:56] <mfa298> unfortunately I wanted to power it off so I can label the Pi and SD card as well so I can keep track of the things (SD cards in particular)
[20:57] <mattbrejza> how many pis do you personally own?
[20:58] <mfa298> 6 maybe 7
[20:58] <mfa298> two are B Rev1 boards (256MB) and ones an A
[20:59] <mfa298> half of them have things on with good intentions (Lora module on one, rfm69 on another)
[21:01] <mattbrejza> :)
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[21:27] <esculca> anyone has tried the RF98w in FSK continuous mode?
[21:28] <Maxell> The movie "Predestination" has an intresting piece of "bomb timer" i.sigio.nl/6611a81d3fab6886eeb78990525de7de.png
[21:28] <Maxell> http://i.sigio.nl/6611a81d3fab6886eeb78990525de7de.png
[21:36] <Darkside> esculca: mattbrejza has i think
[21:38] <esculca> i spoke with him earlier
[21:39] <esculca> still don't understand his code
[21:40] <esculca> that he posted on github
[21:42] <mattbrejza> what bit?
[21:42] <esculca> welll
[21:42] <esculca> the way you do it is packet mode, right?
[21:44] <mattbrejza> this is what you need in main() : http://pastie.org/9768667
[21:45] <esculca> i got that part
[21:45] <esculca> but you are sending data across that we can decode with a normal SDR dongle?
[21:45] <esculca> like wth NTX2?
[21:45] <esculca> or RFM22b?
[21:45] <mattbrejza> yea its just normal rtty
[21:46] <mattbrejza> fldigi style rtty
[21:46] <esculca> ok, what's the point of this function
[21:46] <esculca> radio_write_reg_end
[21:46] <esculca> ?
[21:48] <mattbrejza> its because usually to write data to the radio you put that data in a buffer and call the write_burst function
[21:49] <mattbrejza> but to save RAM for writing to the radio for rtty i calcualte bytes on the fly
[21:49] <mattbrejza> so the writing to rfm routine is split up
[21:49] <esculca> sorry, but I like to understand all the code prior to use it
[21:50] <mattbrejza> radio_write_reg_end just finishes the spi operation by waiting for the current byte to finish sending and pulling CS high
[21:50] <esculca> I am usingan arduino
[21:50] <mattbrejza> yea, i am still playing about with tihs code
[21:50] <mattbrejza> its not really finished
[21:50] <mattbrejza> more for reference
[21:50] <mattbrejza> atm
[21:50] <esculca> atm=?
[21:50] <qyx_> at the moment
[21:51] <esculca> ok
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[21:53] <esculca> in Lora Mode it was simple
[21:53] <esculca> I manage to send dat
[21:53] <esculca> I manage to send data
[21:53] <esculca> all this code you have is for the oversampling, right?
[21:54] <mattbrejza> yea
[21:54] <esculca> you manage to get the 50 bps=
[21:54] <esculca> ?
[21:54] <mattbrejza> so the modem thinks its doing 600 baud, but i send each bit 16 times
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[21:55] <mattbrejza> (or two bytes, which makes things much easier, than say, sending each bit 10 times)
[21:55] <esculca> what is the size of the onternal buffer of RF98?
[21:55] <esculca> internal*
[21:56] <mattbrejza> 64
[21:56] <esculca> 64 bytes, not 64 bits
[21:56] <mattbrejza> bytes
[21:57] <esculca> so, you get a messages with 80 bytes, you transform it into a bigger message by oversampling it
[21:57] <esculca> and then send it in chuncks of 64 bytes?
[21:57] <esculca> chucks*
[21:57] <esculca> chunks
[21:57] <mattbrejza> pretty much
[21:58] <mattbrejza> i dont wait until the fifo is empty before refilling though
[21:58] <esculca> that's the trick part
[21:58] <mattbrejza> theres a 'fifo below threshold flag' which i monitor so i can refill it
[21:58] <esculca> got it
[21:58] <esculca> clever
[21:58] <mattbrejza> well its pretty much the only way :P
[21:58] <esculca> well, the dumb way can also be used
[21:59] <esculca> or there woyuld be agpt?
[21:59] <esculca> in the transmission?
[21:59] <mattbrejza> well its just a different falg
[21:59] <mattbrejza> depends how quickely you refill
[21:59] <mattbrejza> btw you need to turn off crc otherwise itll limit the packet length
[21:59] <mattbrejza> iirc
[22:00] <esculca> how I miss rf22b!!!!
[22:00] <esculca> rfm22
[22:00] <daveake> You're not the only one
[22:00] <daveake> There's one other person I think
[22:00] <esculca> what if I uss continuous mode?
[22:00] <esculca> use continuous mode?
[22:01] <esculca> I have spare pins
[22:01] <esculca> I can solder a few wires
[22:01] <mattbrejza> continuous you have to twiddle a pin to change the frequency?
[22:01] <mattbrejza> probably easier, havnt tried
[22:01] <esculca> the datasheet is not clear
[22:02] <esculca> I get lost in it
[22:03] <esculca> how can I change the frequncy in continuous mode?
[22:04] <mattbrejza> by setting a pin high or low
[22:04] <mattbrejza> you then define the shift in registers
[22:05] <esculca> make sense
[22:07] <esculca> I simply need the DIO2 pin as data in?
[22:07] <esculca> or DIO1 for the clock as well?
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[22:08] <db_g6gzh> if the problem (as I understand it as compared to the rfm22) is that it won't tune whilst transmitting, is there not time to "turn tx off - retune - turn tx on" for each bit at 50baud ?
[22:08] <mattbrejza> you dont need it, but there is a mode where you do
[22:08] <mattbrejza> yea you cant change the frequency register while its transmitting
[22:09] <esculca> I am lost now
[22:09] <esculca> I thought you configure a base frequency, a deviation
[22:10] <esculca> and then toggle DIO2 based on the bit you want to trasnmit
[22:10] <esculca> I am thinking right?
[22:10] <edmoore> jcoxon, thought you might appreciate some medic-friends humour (ruth's comment) https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8hx5gxthbxo2d3/Screenshot%202014-12-08%2022.09.24.png?dl=0
[22:10] <mattbrejza> theres is a mode where it uses the clock to add pulse shaping, but there is another mode where you dont need clock and it doesnt pulse shape
[22:10] <esculca> what is the name of that last mode?
[22:10] <esculca> I have the datasheet in fron of me right now
[22:12] <mattbrejza> both are continuous
[22:12] <mattbrejza> one might be async and one sync
[22:12] <esculca> I want the aysnc (I only have one spare pin in arduini pro mini)
[22:12] <mattbrejza> 4.2.1
[22:13] <mattbrejza> async should be fine
[22:13] <esculca> 4.2.1, tks
[22:13] <esculca> I am reading it now
[22:15] <esculca> why they say I can set the bit rate? I thouight is the way I toogle the DIO2 pin that will define the birate
[22:18] <mattbrejza> thats for sync mode
[22:18] <mattbrejza> (i assume)
[22:19] <esculca> let me then solder some leads and thry thso so called continuous mode
[22:19] <esculca> let's ee how it goes
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[22:37] <esculca> Matt
[22:37] <esculca> in OP Mode hsould I use Transmitter mode ou FS Mode?
[22:37] <esculca> for the continuous mode?
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[22:40] <mattbrejza> TX
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[23:14] <esculca> it doens't seem to work
[23:14] <esculca> :(
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 9 2014