highaltitude.log.20141128

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[00:27] <amell> well tescos site went down. John lewis is slow.
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[02:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AETH31-8 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=AETH31-8
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[02:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AETH28-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=AETH28-2
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[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> very quiet this morning ?
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> it is working ?
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> looks like it
[11:36] <Steve_G0TDJ> I can see you Geoff
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> think I'll have a conversation with yself then!
[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh dear its all inverted now ! Morning Steve
[11:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hiya - Bit busy here but I thought I'd put you out of your misery ;-)
[11:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> nothing since 11:36 last night! OK have a gday!
[11:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> Time of year... And you MAte, catch you soon!
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[11:40] <mfa298> everyone must be out getting crushed
[11:41] <UpuWork> might be a balloon up on 650
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think they got crushed and haven't come round yet ;-)
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Now he tells us!
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[11:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> '650'?
[11:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, 434.650.... Doh!
[11:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Aerials swing into action nothing to the East of me at least!
[11:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> That's whatyou get for doing too many things at once
[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Nothing to the South
[11:44] <fsphil> another barc?
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[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing north either leave it listening and see what appears!
[11:46] <lz1dev> !ping b-64
[11:46] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Last contact with 03B-64 was 035 days ago
[11:46] <fsphil> :(
[11:46] <lz1dev> :[
[11:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Upuwork That new VAT regime from January sounds messy for small companies
[11:46] <murb> Geoff-G8DHE: the one stop shop is really good for small companies.
[11:47] <murb> it means not having to register in every eu country you have consumer customers in.
[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Most seem to be put off by it!
[11:47] <murb> Geoff-G8DHE: the current setup seems to be designed to give massive advantage to the likes of amazon and aol
[11:47] <murb> who trade from luxembourg and pay their vat there.
[11:48] <murb> under the new regime, if their end customer is in the uk, then the uk will get 70% of the vat @ uk rates.
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes understand that but it looks like the usual nut case applies
[11:48] <murb> (why not 100%? well luxembourg still has to pay its social security expensives etc.)
[11:49] <murb> and the uk gets away with having a very high turn over requirement for vat registration.
[11:49] <murb> for instance in .de it is something like 18k¬ and you have to register.
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Seems like a lot of small companiesare taking the easy option, and stopping selling outside there own country.
[11:54] <fsphil> doesn't apply to physical goods
[11:54] <UpuWork> not looked at it yet Geoff-G8DHE
[11:54] <UpuWork> but we are VAT registered
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[11:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just saw some Tweets about it and a blog, so might be biased viewpoints but sounds messy for services
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[12:04] <murb> UpuWork: yeah, or consultancy.
[12:05] <murb> UpuWork: but this is only the 1st phase.
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[12:19] <UpuWork> well we are all registered for VAT and claim it back for intra-EC stuff anyway
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[14:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-960-000767-C920-HD-Webcam/dp/B006A2Q81M for anyone into cheap decent webcams
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> I'm purchasing one for cctv type stuff
[14:10] <craag> I've got one of those that I use for video streaming
[14:11] <craag> Used it to stream the susf hab launches
[14:12] <craag> There's also a few scripts around to dump out the live hw-encoded H264 bitstream on linux
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[14:42] <DL7AD> morning
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[15:02] <Reb-SM0ULC> DL7AD: time distorted in central europe? ;)
[15:03] <Maxell> hehe, zeusbot stats: "These didn't make it to the top: Maxell (9048)"
[15:03] <Maxell> It's over 9000!
[15:03] <DL7AD> Reb-SM0ULC: hehe :D no. i was kidding
[15:05] <Maxell> DL7AD: good afternoon from .NL
[15:05] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
[15:06] <Reb-SM0ULC> DL7AD: was just reading about this amazing find, http://www.universetoday.com/116574/astronomers-discover-first-mulitiple-image-gravitationally-lensed-supernova/
[15:07] <DL7AD> hm play
[15:07] <DL7AD> okay
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[16:49] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[16:49] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[16:52] <BeaverOne> http://imgur.com/a/U51s4 -- decent?
[16:53] <craag> snow!
[16:53] <craag> nice pics
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[16:54] <BeaverOne> craag: thank you :)
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[16:56] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
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[17:10] <fsphil> snow makes some great pictures
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[17:13] <craag> mm, I'm going to try some sunrise pics in the new year, hopefully they'll have snow too
[17:14] <daveake> I'm hoping for snow on the Black Mountains, and a nice easterly wind to get there :)
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[17:18] <craag> although a warmer microclimate at the launch site would be nice :)
[17:19] <ike> BeaverOne can you make this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Hui_fUOBA with a balloon?
[17:21] <BeaverOne> ike: i'd like to
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[17:54] <Maxell> ike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4SzlLhSyG4
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[17:55] <ike> but can you make it with balloon
[17:55] <ike> ;)
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[18:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AETH31-8 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=AETH31-8
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[18:34] <fsphil> not sure a balloon would last too long in that
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[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:51] <Jake__> Hi guys, im looking for the best antenna to use on my balloon but dont want the balloon to exceed 2m in length. The balloon plus payload already measure 1.9m so i was thinking a wheel antenna on the bottom. Would it be hazardous if someone were to touch it upon landing
[18:54] <Ian_> at 10mW I hardly think so as long as it had no sharp edges. Where are you Jake_. The 2m reg is at any point in the flight so if it measures 1.9m on the ground it will be well outside the regs by the time it is less than 1km altitude
[18:54] <Ian_> What is your balloon type?
[18:54] <Ian_> AFK gotta go out.
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[19:05] <Jake__> its 1.6m when inflated. so thats not a problem. but im looking to make a small balloon so i dont need permission to launch from the CAA
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[19:12] <SpeedEvil> When inflated, or when burst?
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> I mean - is it a fixed envelope
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> and yes - Ian_ just mentioned that - oops
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> It's under 2m at any time in flight
[19:13] <fsphil> yea a latex balloon will easily become larger than 2m
[19:14] <fsphil> even the little 100g balloons probably do
[19:15] <daveake> Hwoyee 100's do but Pawan 100's don't
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[20:47] <mclane_> question to the raspi gurus: is there a "swserial" for the raspi (bit-banged uart)?
[20:49] <fsphil> nope
[20:49] <fsphil> serial needs strict timing which is difficult to do in linux
[20:49] <fsphil> it may be possible to do it using the dma features of the cpu
[20:50] <mclane_> yea, but bit-banging i2c works
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[20:51] <daveake> no need for accurate timing
[20:52] <mclane_> ok understood
[20:52] <mfa298> with a realtime thread you might be able to bitbang a low baudrate but I don't think you'd get anything particularly meaningful
[20:52] <daveake> with both spi and i2c the master supplies the clock
[20:53] <mfa298> i.e. 1200 might work but I think you'd struggle with 9600
[20:53] <daveake> Dunno what the application is but consider a USB or SPI UART
[20:53] <mclane_> thats what I am doing now
[20:54] <mclane_> I want to ling to raspis; on the first the uart is already used
[20:54] <mclane_> link
[20:54] <mfa298> ethernet ?
[20:55] <mclane_> no raspi a+
[20:55] <daveake> USB Ethernet dongle :p
[20:55] <mfa298> wifi dongle :p
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane_
[20:56] <daveake> I've used both but the wired ethernet one doesn't need any setup
[20:56] <mclane_> yea, but I want that on a balloon ;-)
[20:56] <mclane_> so limited power budget!
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> balloon with ethernet cable :P
[20:57] <mfa298> maybe bitbang an spi slave ?
[20:58] <mclane_> that is an option I am just exploring
[20:58] <fsphil> diy protocol
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[20:58] <fsphil> parallel link
[20:58] <mattbrejza> you can do a simple multiplexer with some resistors
[20:58] <mattbrejza> or just use an actual multplexer
[21:01] <mikestir> what about those usb bridges that you used to get as a replacement for parallel laplink cables before wifi was a thing?
[21:01] <mikestir> that would probably be plug and play and lower power than going all the way to ethernet
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> hm parallel
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> like centronics? :P
[21:02] <mikestir> yes
[21:02] <fsphil> there may be SPI > UART chips
[21:02] <fsphil> or I2C > UART
[21:02] <fsphil> probably easier
[21:02] <mikestir> might as well use an avr
[21:02] <mattbrejza> multiplexer ftw
[21:02] <mattbrejza> just have a gpio to select which thing youre talking to
[21:02] <mikestir> token ring
[21:02] <mclane_> yea, that is what I have done in the past (cd4066
[21:03] <mclane_> now I need both uarts in parallel
[21:03] <fsphil> but yes multiplexer is probably best :)
[21:03] <fsphil> oh well then it's not best
[21:03] <mikestir> just use a usb to serial on the first one?
[21:03] <mikestir> and the built in serial on the rest
[21:04] <mattbrejza> cpld based spi->uart
[21:04] <fsphil> or just forget the Pi entirely and use something with lots of uarts
[21:04] <mclane_> mikestir: that is what I am doing actually
[21:05] <fsphil> oooh new horizons wakes up next week
[21:05] <mikestir> mclane_: do you need multidrop or is it just point to point?
[21:05] <mclane_> point to point
[21:05] <mfa298> get a compute module then it's a Pi with 2 uarts
[21:06] <mattbrejza> why pi?
[21:06] <mclane_> I am using the picam
[21:06] <mclane_> on both
[21:06] <mfa298> although I was half thinking the same as mikestir and stick something like a avr in the middle
[21:06] <mclane_> one for taking photos
[21:07] <mclane_> the other picam is integrated into a solar spectrometer
[21:07] <fsphil> nice
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:07] <fsphil> the compute module can handle two cameras
[21:07] <mfa298> CM could be a solution then, 2 CSI interfaces (although I'm not sure there's firmware yet for that - I've not been keeping up with that for a while)
[21:07] <mclane_> so i plan to have 2 pis, one to do ssdv+telemetry
[21:07] <mikestir> is the model a's usb port OTG?
[21:08] <mclane_> yes
[21:08] <mikestir> just connect them together than and use the ethernet gadget driver at the device end
[21:08] <mfa298> mikestir: original Pi A was OTG (I've not looked at the a+)
[21:08] <mikestir> a/than/then/
[21:08] <mclane_> the second to read out & process the spectra
[21:08] <mikestir> it's the same cpu so it will be
[21:08] <mfa298> although I'm not sure you can use it as OTG from linux (possibly only on boot as a way to push the initial firmware)
[21:09] <mclane_> and to send them to the first for storage and transmission via ntx2
[21:09] <mikestir> linux certainly supports otg on some hardware
[21:09] <fsphil> can you have two ntx2's?
[21:09] <mikestir> I've used it on some SoC with a synopsys usb core
[21:09] <fsphil> just keep them separate
[21:09] <fsphil> with the bonus that you get twice the data rate
[21:10] <mclane_> I can have 2 ntx2bs but that is not elegant ;-)
[21:10] <mfa298> mikestir: there's only OTG if there's nothing in the middle (hence no OTG on the B) - I was making no assumptions about what's happened on the a+ board (could there be anything in the way)
[21:10] <fsphil> my next one might have two
[21:10] <mclane_> spectrum data is just 2 kb
[21:11] <mclane_> so the idea is to transmit one ssdv image, one spectrum,...
[21:11] <mikestir> mfa298: yeah I appreciate that, but I thought that was the main difference between the A and the B - they left off the usb hub/ethernet chip
[21:11] <mclane_> and the gps stuff in between
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[21:12] <mfa298> mikestir: that's the case for A and B, But I know the B+ gained more USB ports but I'm not sure what happened with the A+
[21:12] Action: mfa298 googles
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[21:13] <mfa298> looks like it's still single USB (from not particularly good pictures) so that would suggest OTG may work
[21:13] <fsphil> smaller, larger gpio header and more efficient power regulation
[21:13] <daveake> it is single usb
[21:14] Action: mfa298 has learnt the lessons of making assumptions many times in the past so didn't want to fall into that trap again...
[21:14] <mikestir> the issue would be getting at the ID pin, but I have a feeling you don't necessarily need that because there is a protocol that can be used to negotiate wihch end is host
[21:14] <daveake> more gpio pins however they didn't bring out the second uart to any of them :(
[21:14] <mattbrejza> any reason for that?
[21:15] <fsphil> they secretly hate us
[21:15] <mikestir> what about using the I2S bus
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> I like the solar spectrometer plan mclane_
[21:15] <mikestir> that might be a nice high speed interconnect
[21:15] <daveake> couldn't trace the pins out without an extra pcb layer
[21:15] <daveake> so I was told
[21:15] <mfa298> is the gpio on the A+ the same as the B+
[21:15] <daveake> yes
[21:15] <mattbrejza> sounds like they wernt trying hard enough
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[21:16] <mfa298> so no uart on the B+ either. that scuppers that plan at work (I suspected that would the the case)
[21:16] <daveake> the extra pins are just regular i/o pins no special function at all
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> hm but I2S is audio only?
[21:16] <mikestir> yeah but it doesn't care that you send random binary stuff down it
[21:17] <mikestir> it's just a serial interface
[21:17] <fsphil> if you removed the DC block filter from the audio out port, you could generate and send rtty through that
[21:17] <mikestir> it might take some kernel hacking to make it work well but I thought it was worth mentioning
[21:17] <fsphil> doesn't help if you need it to talk to gps or the other pi
[21:18] <ike> for gps there is i2c buss
[21:18] <ike> and why do you need another pi?
[21:18] <fsphil> two cameras
[21:19] <mikestir> ike: I think people have had trouble talking to the ublox from a pi over i2c because the pi doesn't support clock stretching
[21:19] <ike> can't you do it with usb cammera
[21:19] <mfa298> watching "Have I got news for you" who's to blame for that - Lamb chop in space
[21:19] <daveake> stick in something with plenty of serial, and connect that to the 2 pis via serial
[21:19] <mclane_> there is a i2c bit bang driver supporting clock stretching - works well
[21:19] <mikestir> ok
[21:20] <ike> can't you run i2c at slower speed like 100k?
[21:20] <daveake> damn, so if I'd sent up a lamb chop instead of a furry bear, I could have got onto HIGNFY ?
[21:20] <daveake> damn
[21:20] <mikestir> yeah but the ublox sometimes wants to stall for a relatively long time
[21:21] <daveake> it does
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[21:21] <daveake> s/w bitbanging does work
[21:21] <daveake> pita though it is
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[21:22] <ike> there are some cheap mcu that you can turn into i2c to uart or spi to uart
[21:22] <ike> on ebay you can get tons of atmega328
[21:22] <daveake> there are any options
[21:23] <daveake> many
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[21:24] <mfa298> if you could get a atmega which can act as 2 spi slave I'd be tempted to have the gps on that, then each Pi query gps position over spi.
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[21:24] <daveake> I did this on one of my flights - 2 NXT2s driven by an AVR that was listening to the Pi serial
[21:24] <mikestir> I think I'd just go for the usb->serial option. seems the easiest and probably among the lowest power options
[21:24] <ike> usb chips are not low power
[21:24] <mattbrejza> what are the two uart devices?
[21:24] <ike> and if you have R pi good luck with low power
[21:25] <qyx_> definitely lower than rpi
[21:25] <qyx_> yep
[21:26] <mikestir> ike: they're not that bad
[21:26] <ike> are there cameras with 115200 uart output
[21:26] <mattbrejza> theyre probably shitter image quality than the picam
[21:26] <mikestir> it's certainly not a low power bus, but in the context of rpi and with other options including things like ethernet, it's low power
[21:27] <daveake> yes
[21:27] <daveake> The pi camquality is pretty good. Doubt you'd get the same with a serial camera.
[21:27] <mattbrejza> thats one reason i gave up my stm32 camera payload
[21:28] <mclane_> me too
[21:28] <daveake> Pi is also easier.
[21:28] <mattbrejza> wheres the fun in tht ;)
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[21:30] <fsphil> need to get stm32 talking csi :)
[21:30] <mattbrejza> also lora and ukhasnet are getting in the way
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[21:33] <ike> are loras any good?
[21:33] <mikestir> fsphil: there are plenty of sensors with dvp that will connect directly
[21:33] <mikestir> ram is the problem
[21:33] <mattbrejza> ill set you know when i get it working
[21:33] <amell> !ping b-64
[21:33] <SpacenearUS> 03amell: Last contact with 03B-64 was 035 days ago
[21:33] <daveake> loras are very good yes
[21:33] <mattbrejza> mikestir: the idea was to jpeg encode on the fly
[21:33] <amell> I have a feeling B-64 is done.
[21:33] <DL7AD> not yet
[21:34] <ike> daveake I have seen some trash talk here http://e2e.ti.com/support/wireless_connectivity/f/156/t/343273.aspx I wonder if it's true
[21:34] <mikestir> mattbrejza: I would have thought the F4s would be up to that
[21:34] <daveake> this has been said before
[21:34] <mikestir> certainly at typical ssdv resolutions
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> *whispering* B-64 is a star!
[21:34] <mattbrejza> yea i thought it might be able to do video too
[21:34] <mattbrejza> albiet video-jpeg
[21:34] <mattbrejza> whatever its called
[21:35] <fsphil> mjpeg
[21:35] <ike> what do you think is hapend to B-64? Balloon burst or just battery died?
[21:35] <fsphil> or just out of range
[21:35] <fsphil> lack of sunlight
[21:35] <fsphil> aliens
[21:36] <amell> I think it was lack of light.
[21:36] <mikestir> mattbrejza: I've actually been looking at writing an optimised JPEG encoder for cortex m4 as a friday afternoon project at work
[21:36] <daveake> it's hiding under philae
[21:36] <ike> are there any protection agains short in the lithium battery
[21:36] <amell> last we heard from it, it was 2.6V battery going into the night.
[21:36] <fsphil> you could make a nice fast DCT transform on the stm32
[21:36] <mikestir> haven't got that far yet but a lot of the required operations look like a good fit for the M4's DSP and SIMD functionality
[21:36] <amell> which basically means, its not getting enough light to get a full charge each day,
[21:37] <mattbrejza> ye i wnanted to try it too, but too little time
[21:37] <amell> maybe we will hear from it again in april/may :)
[21:38] <ike> isn't UV radiation affecting the balloon?
[21:38] <ike> you know what hapend when you leave plastic bag outside in the sunlight
[21:43] <fsphil> a man runs over and start shouting at you for littering?
[21:43] <ulfr> lol
[21:44] <daveake> I don't understand
[21:44] <daveake> Sunlight ??
[21:44] <amell> yeah, not seen that for weeks now :(
[21:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PEAKSKY - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PEAKSKY
[21:58] <lz1dev> amell: you should go out more :)
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 29 2014