highaltitude.log.20141126

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[00:04] <Laurenceb_> odd how it scans across channels
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> maybe that reduces fading
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[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Or it's tracking channel performance
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> And moving to better ones
[00:22] <Laurenceb_> ah
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[00:54] <spacetoday> what clients are all of you using for irc here?
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> quassel
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> / quassedroid
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[04:42] Action: englishman waits patiently for b-64
[04:42] <englishman> :'(
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[05:42] <Myself> spacetoday: to answer your earlier question about IRC clients, you can always /ctcp #somechannel VERSION and watch the responses come flying in ;) I don't *think* that's considered rude, but I might be wrong.. heh.
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[06:09] <kf7fer> Lunar_Lander: do you currently have something like a skillet or an oven to do reflow work?
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[06:24] <Maxell> englishman: I wonder what is going on.... Should have flown above Finland yesterday evening already
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[06:47] <Myself> Maxell, englishman: Yeah, I'm ready to be proven wrong, but I think "just" 135 days is plenty to celebrate.
[06:47] <Myself> been loading the habhub page every morning to check, old habits die hard.. heh
[06:55] <englishman> it is an amazing feat.
[07:07] <Maxell> Myself: well, those flights that took off again... Also amazing!
[07:08] <Maxell> That one time in Sweden I think that it got stuck in a tree and a station reported back every minute.
[07:09] <Maxell> When the rain stopped it went flying again :D
[07:19] <x-f> that happened on a small island near Finland :)
[07:19] <Maxell> :P
[07:20] <x-f> but anyway, these balloons are amazing indeed
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[08:01] <M6XIMan> We have thought B flights to be dead previously
[08:01] <M6XIMan> I expect we'll hear from it again in a week once it's over North Korea ;)
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[08:32] <SA6BSS> if edupic9 resurect from the dead I put a audio stream from my reciever that is tuned on 434.274.5 if anyone will listen http://micked.no-ip.org:57477/
[08:33] <SA6BSS> in vlc ctrl+n
[08:34] <lz1dev> !ping b-64
[08:34] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Last contact with 03B-64 was 033 days ago
[08:34] <lz1dev> :[
[08:34] <lz1dev> !aprs ping m0xer-4
[08:34] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Latest contact: 03M0XER-4 10(3 days ago)
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[08:48] <lz1dev> !aprs ping M1VIP-9
[08:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Latest contact: 03M1VIP-9 10(10 minutes ago)
[08:49] <lz1dev> !aprs ping 2E0BCI-9
[08:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Latest contact: 032E0BCI-9 10(a few seconds ago)
[08:49] <lz1dev> !aprs add 2E0BCI-9 test1_chase
[08:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 032E0BCI-9 as 10(test1_chase) to APRS Importer
[08:49] <lz1dev> !aprs add 2E0BTX test2_chase
[08:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 032E0BTX as 10(test2_chase) to APRS Importer
[08:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test1_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test1_chase
[08:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test2_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test2_chase
[08:51] <lz1dev> !aprs info 2E0BTX
[08:51] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 032E0BTX is near 03Warrington, UK 10(53.38466,-2.50467) - 12http://aprs.fi/info/2E0BTX
[08:51] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Path: 032E0BTX>APOA00 via 03TCPIP*,qAC,N6NAR
[08:51] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Symbol: 03e/ Speed: 0357kmph Course: 03238°
[08:51] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Comment: 03Kebbab time
[08:51] <lz1dev> kebbab time
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[09:27] <DL7AD> morning
[09:27] <DL7AD> does anybody know some details about what happened to B-64?
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[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> What happened then? I thought it was just that it overflew Europe during the night with its battery flat ?
[09:31] <fsphil> I wouldn't give up on it just yet
[09:31] <daveake> It's the Philae of HAB. One day it'll burst into life
[09:33] <lz1dev> i see what you did there
[09:33] <lz1dev> daveake: http://i.imgur.com/yL4PwSv.jpg
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[09:42] <amell> re b-64 - battery 2.67V at 4.30pm when it was going dark - clearly didnt get a good charge in the day
[09:43] <fsphil> B's hibernate
[09:43] <amell> not sure what it would do the next day, i think leo mentioned something about low power mode
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[09:46] <amell> I reckon B-64 will wake up in the eastern mediterranean sometime today
[09:47] <amell> !hysplit b-64
[09:47] <SpacenearUS> 03amell: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141126-04_123353_B64.gif
[09:48] <lz1dev> it might've gone further north than the hysplit lead us to believe
[09:48] <amell> true, but look at the hysplit. wow. re descent to 8Km on 28th
[09:48] <amell> oh. AGL, that would explain it
[09:54] <fsphil> http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA18433
[10:06] Nick change: day- -> day
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[10:07] <amell> always wanted to swim in a hydrocarbon lake
[10:10] <edmoore> could be quite cleansing
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[10:12] <amell> potentially quite smelly too.
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[10:56] <amell> anyone used the MS5611 before?
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[11:24] <lz1dev> !aprs add EI7JQ test3_chase
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03EI7JQ as 10(test3_chase) to APRS Importer
[11:25] <lz1dev> !aprs add G1NFT-9 test4_chase
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03G1NFT-9 as 10(test4_chase) to APRS Importer
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test4_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test4_chase
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test3_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test3_chase
[11:30] <lz1dev> !aprs add M3FVX-9 test5_chase
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03M3FVX-9 as 10(test5_chase) to APRS Importer
[11:30] <lz1dev> !aprs add SQ4MP-9 test6_chase
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03SQ4MP-9 as 10(test6_chase) to APRS Importer
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test5_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test5_chase
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test6_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=test6_chase
[11:36] <fsphil> having fun?
[11:37] <lz1dev> so much
[11:39] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/kRUTyLH.png
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[11:48] <lz1dev> !aprs remove EI7JQ
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 03EI7JQ from APRS Importer
[11:48] <lz1dev> !aprs remove G1NFT-9
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 03G1NFT-9 from APRS Importer
[11:48] <lz1dev> !aprs remove M3FVX-9
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 03M3FVX-9 from APRS Importer
[11:48] <lz1dev> !aprs remove SQ4MP-9
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 03SQ4MP-9 from APRS Importer
[11:49] <lz1dev> !aprs
[11:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Tracking via APRS: 032E0BCI-9 10(test1_chase), 032E0BTX 10(test2_chase), 03AETH28-1, 03AETH28-10, 03AETH28-2, 03AETH28-3, 03AETH28-4, 03AETH28-5, 03AETH28-6, 03AETH28-8, 03M0UPU-9 10(M0UPU-Chase), 03M0XER-4 10(IM_Back64)
[11:49] <lz1dev> !aprs remove 2E0BTX
[11:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 032E0BTX from APRS Importer
[11:49] <lz1dev> !aprs remove 2E0BCI-9
[11:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Removed 032E0BCI-9 from APRS Importer
[11:49] <lz1dev> these eath balloons are terribad
[11:51] <jonsowman> it'd be nice if the bot could do this in pm
[11:51] <jonsowman> I realise this is unusually spammy
[11:52] <lz1dev> no, everyone must know >:(
[11:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=car_chase
[11:55] <es5nhc> Those allegedly commercial balloons?
[11:55] <lz1dev> yep
[11:55] <es5nhc> If they are indeed commercial ops, maybe some US ham could tap the FCC on the shoulder?
[11:55] <jonsowman> I know the aether project does some non commercial stuff
[11:56] <lz1dev> i think they are testing, since they released quite a few
[11:56] <lz1dev> hopefully they don't solely rely on aprs
[11:57] <mattbrejza> looks like they turn off over france
[12:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> be it commercial or amateur they should be using a proper callsign in an amateur radio band!
[12:03] <es5nhc> +1
[12:03] <amell> is there a link for this aether? what is commercial objective?
[12:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://www.projectaether.org/main/
[12:04] <amell> lz1dev: what does the rotation of the cars signify? :)
[12:05] <lz1dev> heading
[12:05] <amell> ah. gigapixel imaging.
[12:06] <amell> that would imply recoverability though
[12:07] <lz1dev> http://www.projectaether.org/main/education/altitude-predictor.html
[12:07] <amell> hmm, seen that before somewhere...
[12:07] <lz1dev> top
[12:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> He has a the Logo and link
[12:07] <lz1dev> that responsive layout
[12:07] <lz1dev> mmm
[12:10] <lz1dev> Aether Industries is an exclusive supplier of Pawan weather balloons in North America
[12:10] <lz1dev> :D
[12:15] <daveake> lz1dev - car direction - nice :)
[12:15] <daveake> did that just get added?
[12:15] <lz1dev> yep
[12:15] <daveake> coolio
[12:16] <daveake> Now add a speed camera that flashes when the car goesd too fast
[12:16] <daveake> (don't!)
[12:16] <lz1dev> or notification message via SpacenearUS
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Average speed notifications !
[12:17] <lz1dev> i wonder if the polica have an API for reporting speeding cars
[12:18] <daveake> written in flash
[12:18] <lz1dev> embeded in java?
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-information/give-information-online/
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[12:33] <lz1dev> only 171 hits from their site :(
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[14:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MickUk_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=MickUk_chase
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[14:41] <amell> lz1dev: form posting api for daveake speed offences. excellent.
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[16:17] <mightymik> if anyone's bored ... https://soundcloud.com/6955s/stf-radio-2-digital-announcement decode that : )
[16:21] <Piet0r> It sounds beautiful ;)
[16:22] <fsphil> soundcloud seems to have stopped working for me lately
[16:22] <mightymik> mfsk-22 on right side
[16:22] <lz1dev> http://33.media.tumblr.com/4bf0451c51ec6bc9324d2d469638f0dc/tumblr_nfmywn9AXm1s2yegdo1_400.gif
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[16:23] <ike> hehehe
[16:23] <ike> mnogo smeshno
[16:26] <arko> mightymik: what in the world is that?
[16:26] <arko> sounds like you're in the seat of an alien craft as it is crashing
[16:26] <arko> wooop wooop PULL UP
[16:26] <arko> ALTITUDE
[16:26] <arko> *windows bell ring*
[16:27] <mightymik> it's some thing from STF radio international ... an announcement
[16:27] <fsphil> of the invasion beginning?
[16:27] <mightymik> there IS an alien in there
[16:27] <fsphil> aww now I really want to hear it
[16:28] <mightymik> use fldigi to see it
[16:28] <arko> mightymik: is this some radio challenge?
[16:28] <fsphil> hmpf. updated flash and firefox, no luck
[16:29] <mattbrejza> my poor ears :(
[16:29] <arko> soundcloud is really wonky
[16:29] <mightymik> something like that ... some shortwave stations are trying some digital modes w/ messages and such
[16:29] <mattbrejza> thats what hell would sound like if the devil was a ham
[16:29] <arko> mattbrejza: lol
[16:29] <fsphil> isn't he?
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[16:30] <arko> this is like a numberstation
[16:30] <arko> OH!
[16:30] <fsphil> weird, plays with chrome
[16:30] <arko> the Imitiation Game comes out here on friday
[16:31] <arko> fsphil: yeah, i use chrome when listening to soundcloud
[16:31] <mightymik> ho do you turn on sigid in fldigi?
[16:36] <fsphil> ah got there in the end
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[16:36] <fsphil> love the waterfall art
[16:36] <arko> yeah
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[16:39] <fsphil> although now my head hurts
[16:39] <fsphil> :p
[16:39] <mightymik> text streams are backwards/upside dwon
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[16:41] <adamgreig> this does sound fun
[16:41] <arko> yeah
[16:43] <adamgreig> http://stfradio.com/about
[16:43] <arko> love the glitch art
[16:43] <mightymik> there's a stream on the right in psk-125
[16:44] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ki59fh2ax0
[16:44] <arko> music
[16:44] <mightymik> november 30 0400-0500 utc preshow
[16:44] <arko> ok, i dont know who these guys are, but this is pretty cool
[16:45] <adamgreig> their EU frequency is not amateur afaik, pirate shortwave digital radio?
[16:45] <arko> yeah
[16:45] <arko> i think so
[16:45] <adamgreig> rocking
[16:45] <adamgreig> I mean, how disreputable.
[16:46] <arko> lol
[16:46] <fsphil> but think of all the SW listeners they'll interfe... oh
[16:46] <arko> i love this
[16:46] <fsphil> there are still a fair few pirate SW stations
[16:46] <fsphil> at the rate the bands are going, they'll be the only broadcasters left on there
[16:46] <adamgreig> wonder if my hackrf could pick it up
[16:47] <adamgreig> hmm
[16:47] <mightymik> it should if you have the antenna for it
[16:47] <adamgreig> well I mean not without the ham transconverter
[16:47] <adamgreig> but i do have the transconverter and that goes to...
[16:47] <adamgreig> wow really hard to find the frequency spec
[16:48] <mightymik> hack RF goes all the way down
[16:48] <adamgreig> it goes down to 10MHz
[16:48] <adamgreig> these are on 6MHz
[16:48] <fsphil> the converter only goes to 10mhz?
[16:48] <adamgreig> hackRF itself
[16:48] <fsphil> ah
[16:49] <mightymik> it transmitts down to 10MHz at a sertain power point, recieves down to like 150 khz
[16:50] <adamgreig> then why did I even get the ham it up :P
[16:50] <fsphil> so what are they actually going to broadcast
[16:50] <mightymik> good question
[16:51] <fsphil> youtube vid is chiptunes mixed with data
[16:51] <arko> yeah
[16:51] <fsphil> will have a listen
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[17:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:03] <guido_> any sign of life from b-64?
[18:04] <mattbrejza> !ping b-64
[18:04] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Last contact with 03B-64 was 033 days ago
[18:04] <ike> I worry about battery
[18:04] <fsphil> it's been gone longer
[18:04] <ike> that 2.6V is no good
[18:05] <ike> it should shutdown at 3.1V
[18:05] <guido_> yeah, and the north has more and more its dark moments
[18:05] <edmoore> winter is coming
[18:05] <guido_> what kind of battery is it ?
[18:06] <edmoore> lipo
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[18:21] <Laurenceb> i need to finish my lithium plating analyser script...
[18:21] <Laurenceb> but from the results so far it looks like it developed a 200mv hump over the first 30% of discharge
[18:22] <Laurenceb> that suggests lithium plating, which gives irrecoverable short after a while
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[18:27] <guido_> wow.. sounds advanced
[18:28] <guido_> how is that analyzer script working? continuous charge/load cycles?
[18:28] <Laurenceb> the tricky bit is compensating for temperature changes
[18:29] <Laurenceb> i think it can be done a little better than how im doing it atm
[18:29] <Laurenceb> then median of ~20discharge curves
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[18:40] <guido_> interesting, probably the charge-discharge cycles itself also influence temperature locally
[18:41] <guido_> do you have a way to challenge lithium plating?
[18:56] nenad (4e323b3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.50.59.61) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] <nenad> good evening
[18:57] <nenad> could somebody provide me some help with ax.25?
[18:58] <nenad> i am running an linux system with an tnc and have already setup a system, i am able to call and receive packet radio
[18:59] <nenad> i would like to write a c code for estabilishing something like an tcp/ip server/client over ax25, but have failed yet
[18:59] <nenad> has somebody tried somethink like this already?
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[19:01] <nenad> my aim is to send packet radio messages with measurmentdata from the linux system to another automatically
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[19:06] <guido_> hi nenad
[19:07] <nenad> hi
[19:07] <nenad> how are you? can you help me or just want to chat :)
[19:08] <mfa298> nenad: people have done IP over packet radio in the past but it's horribly slow.
[19:08] <mfa298> also depending on what you're sending it may not be legal
[19:09] <nenad> is there another possiblity to send data (with a c script) over ax25
[19:09] <nenad> i have programmed a tcp/ip client/server application before but dont know what can be can in c/c++ for ax25
[19:10] <nenad> *i have programmed a tcp/ip client/server application before but dont know what can be done in c/c++ for ax25
[19:10] <guido_> nenad, you can use the same socket programming to setup AX25 connection
[19:10] <guido_> you need to modify the protocol family to AX25
[19:10] <mfa298> does it have to be ax25 (and are you a license amateur operator)
[19:11] <guido_> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man4/ax25.4.html
[19:11] <nenad> i am working together with an amateur license operator
[19:11] <nenad> we have setup the linux system for ax25 to be able to use packet radio
[19:12] <mfa298> if you're doing it over the aprs network you'll need to look into the specs for that as well (which is the main use of ax25 these days)
[19:12] <mfa298> otherwise there are potentially more efficient ways of sending data
[19:12] <mfa298> it may help if you said what this is for as well ?
[19:13] <guido_> are you intending to send telemetry over ax25?
[19:14] <nenad> we are building something like a skylab, with multiple sensors and a spectrometer
[19:14] <mfa298> is this to go on a balloon ?
[19:14] <nenad> the data will be send from the microcontroller to an raspberry and then send back to earth
[19:15] <nenad> yes it is
[19:15] <mfa298> check your local laws, not everywhere allows amateur radio to be used airborne
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[19:16] <nenad> it is already checked
[19:16] <guido_> traditionally ax25 setup connections, probably you want to send datagram packets like aprs is doing
[19:16] <guido_> datagrams in ax25 are called UI frames
[19:16] <nenad> we may use more than 10mW so we are sending with a striped down radio
[19:17] <guido_> (unnumber information) packets
[19:17] <mfa298> if the raspberry pi is just to convert sensor data into ax25 packets you can probably do away with that and generate the ax25 (I assume for the aprs network) in the microcontroller
[19:18] <nenad> the raspberry must also capture picutres
[19:20] <nenad> our setup looks like this: microcontroller with multiple sensors creates datastream (spi) to raspberry, raspberry with tnc-pi should send this data via striped down radio to earth, meanwhile the raspberry images are send via uart over the ntx2
[19:20] <mfa298> are you planning on sending the images back live ?
[19:20] <mfa298> or just store them to retreive after the flight
[19:20] <nenad> sending live, too
[19:20] <mfa298> I don't think you'll manage that over ax25 / aprs sensibly
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[19:21] <mfa298> the live images people have sent generally use something called ssdv sent over rtty at 300/600 baud
[19:22] <nenad> yes i have read that, too and i am already converting the imagefiles to ssdv format bevor sending
[19:22] <nenad> for that is the ntx2 planed (we are using 2 frequencies)
[19:22] <nenad> 70cm or ssdv and 2m for measurement data
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[19:24] <mfa298> personally for that setup I'd probably run gps+pi+ntx2b, doing ssdv+telemetry on 70cm, and sensors+gps+microcontroller+hx1 doing sensor data and telemetry over aprs.
[19:25] <nenad> what is hx1?
[19:25] <mfa298> that way you have two redundant systems (so if either fails you can still track it)
[19:25] <mfa298> hx1 is a low powered module for 144.8 that can be used for aprs (or look at using something else similar)
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[19:26] <mfa298> it's similar to the ntx2b
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[19:26] <jarod> https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2014-33116.html for the dutchies
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[19:27] <nenad> oh i see 300mW radiometrix
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[19:28] <kobold> hello everone
[19:28] <mfa298> I'm pretty sure people have driven them directly from an ATMega for aprs use
[19:28] <nenad> this could be a alternative, but unfortunally we have to use the radio, which is connected to the tnc
[19:29] <mfa298> I'd possibly be asking if there's a good reason you have to go that way.
[19:30] <kobold> i need some recommendations for a radio module for a hab project in Belgium
[19:30] <mfa298> as it sounds like your setup could end up being pretty complex (which generally means more things to go wrong, which isn't good when you can't get to it to fix it)
[19:30] <mclane_> kobold: ntx2b
[19:31] <mfa298> kobold: if you're using the ukhas standard system (70cm license free band) the ntx2b is a popular choice
[19:31] <kobold> thx
[19:31] <kobold> i will look at it
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[19:32] <mfa298> you'll need a gps + microcontroller to go with it as well (if you've not got that far yet)
[19:32] <mclane_> in that case have a look to the ukhas wiki
[19:32] <nenad> the man in charge of this project does not believe, that 10 or 300mW are suifficient, so he wants to send a real radio (1W)
[19:33] <edmoore> what does he want to send over real radio?
[19:33] <edmoore> it's completely a function of that
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> nenad: did you say where you are?
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> I may have missed that
[19:33] <kobold> i am thinking of using a raspberry pi or an arduino
[19:33] <nenad> germany
[19:33] <edmoore> they are very different
[19:34] <edmoore> but both very simple to get something going
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> I don't know the radio regulations in germany
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> have we had any german launches?
[19:34] <mclane_> nenad: where in D?
[19:34] <mclane_> SpeedEvil: yes
[19:35] <edmoore> nenad, what does your man in charge want to send over the radio?
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> by that - I meant - does anyoen know the rules on german radio
[19:35] <mfa298> nenad: b-64 which has been goign around the world since july is using 10mW into (i think) a non optimal antenna and seems to be received ok on aprs.
[19:35] <mclane_> I am not a HAM, but aprs seems to be ok
[19:35] <mfa298> for the ukhas rtty on 70cm 10mW has managed >800km
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> If it's APRS - 1W will be pure overkill airborne
[19:36] <nenad> as far as i know this has been checked and has been approved
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> And will just be pure interference
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> also need lots more battery
[19:36] <Myself> Yeah, transmitting more power than required isn't just rude, it's against regulations in at least some places. (I know the US regs prohibit that.)
[19:36] <nenad> there are a few amateur radio licence operators involved in this
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> nenad: that doesn't always mean that they've properly read the licence
[19:37] <Myself> Has "the man in charge" done the signal margin math? Antenna gain, free space path loss, etc? I'd be very curious to see the numbers by which he believes 10mW is insufficient.
[19:37] <mfa298> basicly once you're in the air you've got line of sight to lots of receivers, you don't need power to get to them
[19:38] <kobold> is it possible to receive with a cheap sdr
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[19:39] Action: mfa298 bets that the 1W real radio is a cheap handheld with rubber duck antenna - so is probably radiating less power than a 300mW HX1 with a good antenna
[19:40] <lz1dev> SpeedEvil> If it's APRS - 1W will be pure overkill airborne
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> he's probably assuming range on ground is similar to in air
[19:40] <lz1dev> just add WIDE3-3 to the path
[19:40] <nenad> i am sorry, but i am new to this all
[19:40] <nenad> is ax25 packet radio and aprs the same?
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[19:41] <nenad> aprs is the netzwork with multiple receivers, right?
[19:41] <mfa298> aprs is a position reporting system that's based on ax25 (and is the only thing really using it these days)
[19:41] <edmoore> nenad, yes
[19:41] <mfa298> correct aprs has lots of receivers using 144.8 in europe
[19:41] <nenad> ax25 is the protocoll and packet radio a standard
[19:42] <mfa298> you could use plain ax25 (without the aprs stuff) on another frequency but then you don't get the distributed listeners.
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[19:43] <mclane_> nenad: where are you located in Germany?
[19:44] <nenad> near colone
[19:44] <mfa298> if you're using the aprs network you'll also need to look up the protocol for that as well (which may make impact how you write the code - depending on how the tnc connects to the Pi)
[19:45] <mclane_> ah ok - I am in Regensburg
[19:46] <nenad> i dont think we are using aprs because we are using a differenc frequency
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[19:46] <nenad> more like 144.900 to not interfere with others
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[19:48] <mfa298> this feels like doing ax25 on amateur frequencies for the sake of doing it rather than there being any good reason for it.
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[19:50] <mfa298> and definetly leads to the question *why* do you need 1W
[19:50] <nenad> indeed, i would also have prefered a simple way
[19:50] <nenad> like the ntx2 for ssdv
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[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane_
[19:53] <mclane_> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:54] <guido_> nenad if you could also consider 433MHz band which is ISM band and require no license if you use 10mW
[19:54] <mclane_> and 10 mW is enough for 300 bd rtty
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[19:55] <nenad> this is already finish, the ssdv/10mW setup is "ready to go"
[19:55] <guido_> another interesting way could be to use WSPR for reporting positioning in ISM band e.g. 13.56MHz or 6.75Mhz band
[19:56] <guido_> oh sorry
[19:56] <nenad> at the moment i am just working on the raspberry ax25 side
[19:56] <qyx_> hm, 6.75MHz is ISM?
[19:56] <mclane_> nenad: you can use the very same link for position data
[19:57] <mclane_> dl-fldigi will sort it out
[19:57] <nenad> ok thanks for the hint
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[19:58] <guido_> yes, 6.78 Mhz to be precise
[19:58] <mfa298> I would really go back to looking at why you want to run ax25 at such high power when you'll be the only people receiving it as that just seems like a bad idea. 70cms rtty is well tried and tested (almost all UK flights use it) and it's easy to do, there's also a network of people setup to receive it (if you let them know) and lots of amateur radio people get interested in it (a good proportion of the people here are licensed even if we can't use it
[19:59] <mclane_> there are also a few german listeners... not as many as in the uk ;-(
[19:59] <kobold> Is it possible to track a flight with a SDR dongle, if yes which antenna is recommended?
[20:00] <mclane_> kobold: yes, antenna depends on your local possibilities
[20:00] <edmoore> yes it is, but you will benefit hugely from a filter/pre-amp
[20:00] <edmoore> upu seels one
[20:01] <edmoore> sells*
[20:01] <mclane_> I have a cheap 7 elem. yagi
[20:01] <mfa298> kobold: it's possible to use an sdr receiver, although if it's the rtl-sdr they're not the best receivers.
[20:01] <guido_> yes, either using one of the supported modes by dl-fldigi or aprs is the way to go if you want to have some listeners.
[20:01] <mclane_> funcube dongle is recommended
[20:01] <mfa298> antenna wise most people use some form of 2/70 magmount atenna for mobile tracking
[20:01] <nenad> is rtty also send to the internet like aprs?
[20:02] <guido_> but if you want to build your own network and not licensed then you can think of the ism alternatives
[20:02] <mclane_> you can upload the data to spacenear.us with dl-fldigi
[20:02] <mfa298> nenad: if you use dl-fldigi to decode (which you'll want for ssdv) it's sent to the habhub servers
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[20:02] <kobold> but a rtl-sdr with a preamp is good enough
[20:03] <nenad> i am not sure which is the final launchdate, but if you are interested to "listen" i could provide further information, when the date is fixed
[20:03] <nenad> so missing data of ssdv can be synchronized with the habhub server?
[20:04] <mfa298> nenad: for ssdv on 70cm it's well worth having a good number of listeners - best to announce on the ukhas mailing list and talk to local amateur radio clubs
[20:04] <mclane_> habhub server consolidates all received data
[20:05] <nenad> so just one listener wont work?
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> nenad: it may work just fine
[20:05] <mclane_> one listener also works
[20:05] <nenad> ok thats a relieve, is was just a little bit shocked for a second
[20:05] <mclane_> but if you have several, others might receive the packets which you loose
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Distributed listners mean that if your radio dies, or a source of local RFI pops up, you're not screwed
[20:06] <nenad> thanks again for the hint, i will consider it
[20:06] <nenad> where do i find this mailing list?
[20:07] <mclane_> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ukhas
[20:07] <nenad> thank you very much, again
[20:08] <mfa298> stationary listeners may also have a slighlty better chance of receiving it compared to someone in a car (I'm assuming you'll be chasing it
[20:08] <nenad> as soon as i not the release date i will tell you, there will be also a project site with further informations
[20:08] <mclane_> we also recommend this: http://ukhas.org.uk/start
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[20:16] <nenad> I would like to thank you all for the information you provided, this is a really nice community. I will see if we should change our 2m setup and will be coming back, when i have some news. Thanks a lot. :)
[20:17] <mfa298> this is a good place to hang around as you'll learn lots of stuff
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[20:17] <mfa298> and possibly point the rest of the group here - especially if they still think they need that much power
[20:18] <nenad> indeed :)
[20:18] <nenad> See you! Over and out.
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[20:20] Nick change: richardeoin_ -> richardeoin
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[20:25] <richardeoin> Hey, I'm currently trying to implement contestia / olivia on a si4060-based payload. It looks good on the waterfall, but dl-fldigi only manages to decode about 1/3 of the time
[20:25] <richardeoin> here's a recording https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bh82wuh5chnfc4/contestia-32-1000-test-richardeoin-1.wav?dl=0
[20:25] <richardeoin> could anyone with experience of receiving these mode suggest what might be wrong?
[20:25] <richardeoin> *modes
[20:26] <mfa298> it's probably worth checking the tone spacing and timing as these modes can be quite strict (I've not looked at those particular modes in much details)
[20:27] <craag> the tone spacing was rather hard to get right
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[20:28] <richardeoin> i've got the tone spacing and symbol rate as 31.25Hz for 32/1000
[20:29] <richardeoin> iirc they're the same as it's orthogonal
[20:29] <richardeoin> There'll be some error on both however
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[20:30] <mfa298> have you checked how accurate it actually, some forms oftiming aren't accurate enough
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[20:33] <richardeoin> mfa298: The microcontroller doing the symbol timing... is running off an RC oscilator. Let's switch that over to the tcxo
[20:33] <richardeoin> Odd how it's every 3rd that decodes ok though
[20:34] <mfa298> could be an issue, at least you didn't say it's python on as raspberry pi :)
[20:35] <MaXimaN> It was only a matter of time... http://www.cnbc.com/id/102220432
[20:37] <richardeoin> mfa298: haha, no :-) Here's the code if you're interested https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker/blob/contestia_dev/firmware/src/mfsk.c#L57
[20:37] <richardeoin> potentially worth a wiki page when I get it working, there's not that much info online
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[20:40] <Upu> ping jededu can I delete the Edupics ?
[20:40] <Upu> please richardeoin
[20:40] <Upu> let me know if you need permission to post on the wiki
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[20:42] <richardeoin> will do Upu
[20:48] <mfa298> wiki pages are good, especially as the information on most mfsk modes seems to be sparse at best
[20:49] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[20:53] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Launching #CubeSats from stratospheric balloons http://t.co/gr8kPtMzkR #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[20:55] <Myself> I'm pretty sure those aren't satellites...
[20:55] <Myself> splatellites?
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[20:55] <edmoore> stratellites
[20:55] <Myself> oh, rockoons.
[20:55] <edmoore> tratollites
[20:56] <edmoore> yes i've seen these guys a few weeks ago
[20:56] <edmoore> going to orbit from a balloon
[20:56] <jcoxon> i've been on their PR mailing list for quite a while
[20:57] <edmoore> i think the clue is in the name of the mailing list
[20:57] <edmoore> i can't see how that system is going to get anything to orbit
[20:57] <jcoxon> indeed
[20:57] <Myself> it doesn't have to get anything to orbit
[20:57] <Myself> it just has to convince a few investors that it might
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[20:58] <edmoore> spain isn't silicon valley
[20:58] <edmoore> you might have to convince someone numerate
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[21:05] <jededu> upu yes go ahead
[21:05] <Upu> thx jed
[21:11] <tweetBot> @daveake: @AnthonyStirk and I have entered @GSBChallenge. Go Team Bacon! http://t.co/K6rI9Bgrew #UKHAS
[21:14] <Babs_> So, massive balloon or something very clever?
[21:14] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: STRATODEAN post - Why haven't you launched in 2014?? http://t.co/mitdXGg6Yq #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[21:15] <daveake> we don't do clever :)
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[21:16] <craag> Is there a deadline for registration?
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[21:18] <Upu> lol
[21:18] <Upu> yeah clever isn't in our book
[21:18] <Upu> we tried clever once
[21:18] <Babs_> you guys are smart....
[21:18] <Upu> it landed in a field in France
[21:18] <Upu> hah
[21:18] <Upu> just good at using google
[21:19] <Babs_> Props to the first person who destocks Tesco of large freezer bags and heat seals them up to the size of Wembley stadium
[21:19] <Babs_> and goes for a mega launch
[21:20] <Upu> talking of clever
[21:20] <Upu> someone was on yesterday asking about stablised platforms
[21:20] <Babs_> now the guy who did that was very smart
[21:20] <Babs_> ;-)
[21:20] <Upu> yup :)
[21:20] <Babs_> i wondered why my flickr stats went through the roof
[21:21] <Babs_> i totally don't have the time to do anything these days
[21:21] <Babs_> it is a good job the eclipse is in 2017, i might just have it built by then
[21:21] <Upu> well you will go make babies
[21:22] <Babs_> the perils of ones actions after 4 lagers in quick succession
[21:22] <Upu> lol
[21:22] <Babs_> i even missed the conference
[21:22] <Babs_> :-(
[21:22] <Upu> next year
[21:23] <Babs_> and apparently Leobodnar has basically constructed Thunderbird 5 in the meantime and no one told me
[21:23] <Upu> :)
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[21:56] <guido_> !ping b-64
[21:56] <SpacenearUS> 03guido_: Last contact with 03B-64 was 033 days ago
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[21:57] <guido_> hmm
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[21:58] <_Paradigm> Where does one order his Kaymont balloons, because they do not seem to ship outside of the US?
[21:59] <jcoxon> _Paradigm, lots of people don't use kaymont these days
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[21:59] <_Paradigm> jcoxon: So what is the standard nowadays then?
[22:00] <jcoxon> well lots of people use Howyee
[22:01] <jcoxon> and in the UK get it from here
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[22:01] <jcoxon> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
[22:01] <edmoore> there's been a paradigm change in balloon manufacturers
[22:01] <edmoore> you could say
[22:01] <edmoore> .... with a guffaw
[22:01] <jcoxon> oh dear
[22:01] Action: mfa298 groans
[22:02] <_Paradigm> xD
[22:04] <_Paradigm> Do they send those to the mainland of Europe as well?
[22:04] <edmoore> yes
[22:04] <edmoore> randomsolutions is rocketboy on here
[22:04] <edmoore> he's extremely helpful
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[22:04] <edmoore> and has forgotten more about hab than most people ever learn
[22:04] <_Paradigm> Oh nice
[22:05] <edmoore> he started the shop just because buying from chinese/japanese manufacturers was such a pain as an individual
[22:05] <edmoore> so he buys them in qty and seels them on for almost no profit
[22:05] <edmoore> sells*
[22:05] <_Paradigm> Can't agree more..
[22:06] <edmoore> he also does parachutes and other useful things
[22:06] <mclane_> highly recommended
[22:07] <mclane_> we have bought several balloons from him - we are located in Germany
[22:07] <mclane_> no probs at all
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[22:14] <_Paradigm> Oh and another thing is - I have an(other) Arduino Uno lying around.. it needs 5V+ though, which means 4xAA batteries. 4 batteries weigh.. much
[22:14] <_Paradigm> any solution to that?
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> use lithium AAs
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[22:15] <_Paradigm> You mean those Energizer things?
[22:17] <craag> yep energizer ultimate lithium
[22:17] <craag> also use a step-up
[22:17] <craag> or 'boost' converter
[22:17] <craag> It allows you to get 5V from 2 AAs
[22:18] <craag> (can do it from one but it'll be a bit inefficient)
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[22:34] <Ian_> All good advice, but better still if you have a Uno, you have - hopefully - an Atmega328p-pu. buy another chiip, bootload it and save weight. Bootload it to run at 8MHz and you can have it operating from 3.3V too
[22:35] <Ian_> Did you say that you were located in Germany _Paradigm?
[22:35] <_Paradigm> No I am not, we are from the Netherlands
[22:36] <_Paradigm> We = me & my tech buddies
[22:36] <Ian_> Must be near Den Haag then, hotspot for HABies
[22:36] <_Paradigm> And I do think it has an Atmega328p
[22:37] <_Paradigm> Depends on what you call near :)
[22:37] <Ian_> If you have the Uno, then you can use it to bootload and program bare Atmega328p-pu chips which might cost you < 3euro each.
[22:38] <_Paradigm> I am just wondering whether a bare atmega chip fits on a breadboard
[22:38] <Ian_> It certainly does
[22:38] <_Paradigm> Then that is quite an attractive solution
[22:38] <Ian_> I can see five or six from where I am sitting - my xyl doesn't think it an 'attractive' solution . . . :)
[22:39] <_Paradigm> Are 2 AA batteries enough to provide 3.3 volts though?
[22:39] <Ian_> With a step up, yes.
[22:42] <Ian_> I have been bootloading chips to run at 8MHz from SUSE Linux and bumped into a few short walls along the way. I will write up my experience on the #ukhasnet wiki soon, but if you are a Windows, Apple or Ubuntu user then it should be straight forward
[22:43] <_Paradigm> Are you based in the Netherlands as well?
[22:43] <Ian_> You will need a 16MHz crystal and the two load capacitors for the initial bootloading. I understand that 16MHz isn't sustainable at 3.3V
[22:45] <Ian_> No I am UK based but keep your eye on the list at the right where you will spot (often) a clutch of PA callsigns. A look on the tracker map will show you those that are active. Probably most rewarding when a balloon is headed that way
[22:46] <Ian_> Like the rest of us, they don't bite and seem a friendly bunch
[22:47] <_Paradigm> We ran a succesful flight this Sunday, so I do not question your friendliness at all, you guys were of great help!
[22:48] <Ian_> A quick look a moment ago shows that it's dark and cold outside with only three UK stations on the map and two around den haag, so a few rays of sunshine and a balloon to flush out the HAB community
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[22:50] <Ian_> About now they are thinking about coacoa and getting some sleep before work tomorrow
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[22:56] <_Paradigm> True.. lol
[22:58] <_Paradigm> Google says the ATmega328 has some problems with the internal oscillator, such as not being accurate enough for UART
[22:59] <_Paradigm> Is that true?
[23:00] <Myself> If R/C oscillators were accurate enough for UART, the crystal business would be pretty slim.
[23:00] <Myself> Or accurate enough for anything, really. R/C oscillators are so horrible I feel dirty even using 'em to blink an LED.
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[23:06] <englishman> there's plenty of info in the datasheet concerning internal osc and uart precision
[23:08] <mattbrejza> i seem to remember the ublox was fine with baud rates quite a bit lower than nominal, but wouldnt be happy with even slight increases
[23:08] <mattbrejza> so you can always test the gps
[23:08] <mattbrejza> or use i2c
[23:08] <mattbrejza> or use clockout from your radio if it has one
[23:11] <Ian_> mattbrejza, what do the guys here with Atmega328p based trackers here. Do they run at 12MHz with a crystal or what and at 3.3V ?
[23:11] <mattbrejza> yea, or 8MHz crystal
[23:11] <mattbrejza> doesnt matter too much
[23:11] <mattbrejza> or resonators are cheaper and fine
[23:12] <mikestir> use I2C and the internal RC oscillator
[23:12] <Ian_> That's good news then. I'm looking at 8MHz on the internal resonator for the #ukhasnet sensor nodes of course, where there is no GPS to get exited
[23:13] <mattbrejza> na just run the node off the internal RC
[23:13] <mattbrejza> i greatly dislike i2c
[23:13] <Ian_> Everyone listens until the advice is sub-optimal and then apply the corrections :) which is just so Good.
[23:13] <mikestir> the ublox I2C implementation is, frankly, bollocks, but it does work
[23:13] <mattbrejza> i think the stm32 internal oscillator is better, either way, ive connected clkin to the lora clkout
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[23:14] <Ian_> Can't go wrong with so much good experience on hand and it's certainly the place to learn fast.
[23:19] <englishman> anyone know of places to get cheap neo-8 modules, or is $30 each the best im gonna find?
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[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:22] <mikestir> englishman: have you asked upu?
[23:26] <englishman> is he the man with hook ups? :)
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[23:30] <_Paradigm> Good night gentleman :D
[23:30] <_Paradigm> men*
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[00:00] --- Thu Nov 27 2014