highaltitude.log.20141120

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[02:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PSBDD2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PSBDD2
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[03:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-1
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[04:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-2
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[06:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03chemi kaci_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=chemi%20kaci_chase
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[08:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-2
[08:04] <jededu_work> EDUPICM8 still up :)
[08:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> and back up to height!
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[08:10] <fsphil> well that's an odd altitude graph
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[08:15] <jededu_work> Thanks to all for tracking EDUPICM8 so far
[08:15] <jcoxon> jededu_work, email the ukhas list and ask for some scottish listeners
[08:15] <jcoxon> there have been some in the past
[08:16] <jededu_work> Ok will do thx
[08:16] <jcoxon> !dial edupicm8
[08:16] <SpacenearUS> 03jcoxon: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[08:16] <jcoxon> !dial EDUPICM8
[08:16] <SpacenearUS> 03jcoxon: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[08:16] <jcoxon> oh
[08:17] <jededu_work> Flight doc expired?
[08:17] <jcoxon> what freq is it on?
[08:17] <jededu_work> 434.225
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[08:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-2
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[08:23] <jededu_work> Thx G3ZGZ another one :)
[08:23] <jededu_work> Good Battery
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[08:27] <jcoxon> jededu_work, still rising
[08:27] <jcoxon> hopefully won't get too high
[08:28] <jcoxon> yay b-64 is alive as well - missed that bi
[08:28] <jcoxon> t
[08:29] <fsphil> prediction was spot on
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[08:32] <jcoxon> sadly no globaltuners in scotland
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[08:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-2
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[08:48] <fsphil> edupic's signal is returning here
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[08:58] <jededu_work> Could I setup a new flight doc for EDUPICM8
[09:00] <fsphil> what's the radio? it hasn'd drifted much at all
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[09:01] <jededu_work> MTX2
[09:01] <jededu_work> With no sheild
[09:02] <jededu_work> Outer Casing
[09:03] <jcoxon> jededu_work, we've extended the flight doc
[09:03] <jededu_work> Thx jcoxon
[09:07] <fsphil> I seem to have crashed my home pc
[09:08] <gonzo_> not having a great day phil
[09:08] <fsphil> lol no
[09:08] <gonzo_> it can only improve!
[09:08] <fsphil> hey it's not monday
[09:15] <fsphil> edupic getting stronger
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[09:17] <jcoxon> hopefully will stop ascending...
[09:30] <jededu_work> ping upu
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[09:41] <jededu_work> fsphil can you still see it
[09:41] <fsphil> yea
[09:42] <fsphil> not strong enough for a useful decode yet
[09:42] <jededu_work> Ok :)
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[09:44] <fsphil> how long do you expect the battery to last?
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[09:46] <jededu_work> Could be 60 hours bou the cold always kills it
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[09:50] <jededu_work> What is that link that displays all the flight data
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[09:52] <edmoore> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/EDUPICM8
[09:56] <jededu_work> Thats the one thanks edmoore
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[09:57] <edmoore> np
[09:57] <edmoore> thank x-f
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[10:10] <jcoxon> maybe edupic will come back south
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[10:22] <fsphil> some annoying interference here now
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[10:40] <jededu_work> How do you do a hysplit
[10:42] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajsrc.pl
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> maybe few levels up http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/HYSPLIT_traj.php
[10:43] <gonzo_> there is a bot on here that will do them too isn't there?
[10:44] <amell> interesting path, is there a hysplit for edupic8?
[10:44] <lz1dev> !hysplit
[10:44] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03B-64, EDUPICM8
[10:44] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[10:45] <lz1dev> derp
[10:45] <amell> !hysplit edupicm8
[10:45] <SpacenearUS> 03amell: HYSPLIT for 03EDUPICM8 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141120-04_189287_EDUPICM8.gif
[10:45] <amell> clearly wrong
[10:45] <amell> oh its working now. so its actually headed north
[10:47] <edmoore> https://twitter.com/drlucyrogers/status/535357144066179074
[10:48] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[10:48] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[10:48] <lz1dev> !hysplit
[10:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03B-64, EDUPICM8
[10:48] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[10:48] <lz1dev> oh
[10:48] <amell> edmoore: why would she bother commenting on that?
[10:49] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[10:49] <edmoore> who?
[10:49] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[10:49] <lz1dev> !hysplit
[10:49] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03B-64, EDUPICM8
[10:49] <amell> edmoore: tweet you just posted.
[10:49] <edmoore> oh
[10:49] <edmoore> she thought it was funny
[10:49] <edmoore> it was more the conversation that that specific tweet
[10:50] <amell> Ah. im with you now.
[10:50] <fsphil> that is an odd one
[10:53] <edmoore> he's asked me to help him prove his paper now
[10:53] <edmoore> it must be sad to be like that
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[10:56] <amell> he actually has 13 backers
[10:56] <mfa298> I'm guessing that's related to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/43425144/project-laghima-spaceship-engine-experiment which looks like it belongs in the geocities era
[10:56] <amell> oh. 17 backers.
[10:56] <craag> I've been reading that kickstarter page for a few minutes
[10:56] <craag> still trying to work out what it's actually meant to do
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[10:57] <craag> he wants $6000 to put some googley eyes on some magnets and make a spaceship?
[10:57] <mfa298> I got as far as something with electromagnets but them I'm not really sure
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> he wants money to make a vide
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> o
[10:58] <amell> people actually pay him money for this w*nk?
[10:59] <lz1dev> this smells of bull
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[10:59] <fsphil> he is probably those 17 backers
[11:00] <amell> http://bigthink.com/capitally/experimental-closed-system-propulsion-engines-for-spaceships has the best explanation.
[11:00] <amell> i think the first comment about creating a singularity in front of the ship is probably the only way it will work.
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[11:01] <LeoBodnar> Good way to raise comic relief donations
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> "Donate to my charity and i will embarrass myself by supporting this kickstarter nonsense"
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> that's worse than baked beans bath
[11:02] <amell> anyone got a spare singularity?
[11:03] <fsphil> I know where you could get a couple
[11:03] <fsphil> collection only
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> i have half a duality, slightly tatty box, never used
[11:03] <amell> What did you do with the other half?
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[11:04] <LeoBodnar> It is still in Liege
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[11:10] <SpeedEvil> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet/x/8226596 - talking of donations
[11:16] <fsphil> edupic's much stronger now but so is the interference. boo
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[11:22] <Ad_> Hi
[11:23] <jededu_work> Just ran this thx LeoBodnar http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/trajplot_194933.pdf
[11:24] <lz1dev> !hysplit edupicm8
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT for 03EDUPICM8 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141120-10_194788_EDUPICM8.gif
[11:25] <jededu_work> Ahh the earlier one was at 4:55 am
[11:25] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what fraction of hysplit demands come from here.
[11:25] <jcoxon> edupic is sitting just below a rapid wind direction change
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> (not counting yesterday)(
[11:26] <lz1dev> 4 * number of balloons * day
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[11:44] <fsphil> a bit of a drift down in frequency
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[11:56] <jcoxon> we are going to need at least 1 scottish station to track soon
[11:58] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[11:58] Action: SpeedEvil is concentrating all energy on house maintainance and has no time for fun.
[11:59] <mfa298> sounds like you're going to have to speed up that maintenance on the shack so you can get the radio on soon then :p
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> due to health reasons, my life is going at 1/30 speed.
[11:59] <fsphil> if this interference would go away I'd be able to decode this fine
[12:03] <fsphil> anyone know a site in the highlands with power and good internet? :)
[12:03] <fsphil> an SDR up there would be great
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[12:04] <SpeedEvil> A box requiring ethernet and power, i can setup no problem in the middle of fife.
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> ^and an antenna
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> i'm just not up to going into the research and specification and buying and configuring
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[12:09] <zjztgj> LeoBodnar does the B-64 uses a coated foil? Dupon states that an uncoated 15 µm Mylar foil looses more then 500ml/m²/day He at 300 mbar partial pressure difference at 0 °C.
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> B64 is a Al coated balloon film, made into a DIY envelope, with the Al remvoed
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> it's clearly not pure mylar, but it's not clear what it is
[12:16] <zjztgj> ok thx, you sad that already yesterday, but i did't took it serious because you refered to startracks transparent aluminium...
[12:20] <zjztgj> other question: do you know why the balloon EDUPICM8 gain altitude at night and decline at night?
[12:20] <zjztgj> i thoght the lift increases in sunlight
[12:20] <jededu> fsphil I know somone in innerleithen that would possibly co-operate
[12:20] <jededu> and fort william
[12:22] <zjztgj> *at night -> at day
[12:22] <fsphil> fort william would be interesting, though ben nevis might be in the way
[12:22] <jededu> the station is quite high with power
[12:23] <jededu> at the top of the ski lift
[12:23] <fsphil> could be worth a try. just a simple computer and cheap sdr, habamp + small antenna
[12:24] <fsphil> it wouldn't get used too often, but for flights like this it would be great
[12:24] <craag> of course if everyone started using lora - we could do this very easily
[12:25] <fsphil> I don't like pushing lora until there is a software decoder
[12:25] <craag> Yeah
[12:26] <mfa298> or get ukhasnet working better on a balloon :)
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: just put a repeater on B* and launch a couple of dozen
[12:27] <fsphil> cubesat repeater :)
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[12:35] <Laurenceb> zjztgj: B-64 is not mylar
[12:36] <Laurenceb> its orders of magnitude better :D
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[12:42] <zjztgj> but even super low permeable polymers aren't much more than 1 order of magnitude better i thoght
[12:43] <Laurenceb> nope
[12:43] <Laurenceb> theres over 6 orders of magnitude change between different polymers
[12:44] <zjztgj> :O
[12:47] Nick change: day- -> day
[12:47] <Laurenceb> theoretical flight time for the best materials is >10years for B-64 envelope size
[12:47] <Laurenceb> but UV damage limits lifetime, its not clear by how much
[12:48] <Laurenceb> id guess itd be hard to beat 3 years without some sort of UV protection
[12:49] <Laurenceb> realistically icing is much more of a risk at B-64 altitude, I'm trying to model that atm
[12:50] <Laurenceb> increasing the altitude a little seems to give a big reduction in icing risk
[12:54] <Laurenceb> mylar is limited to about 250days
[12:55] <Laurenceb> the 744day record was due to a mylar envelope spending a lot of time trapped in the Antarctic winter
[12:57] <Laurenceb> nobody seems to have flown longer than B-64 since 1973, and theres much better stuff than mylar available now
[12:57] <Laurenceb> so plenty of chance for new duration records in the range of several years to be set
[12:57] <qyx_> that 644day record was in 1973?
[12:57] <qyx_> *744
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> i think it was 1967
[13:01] <Laurenceb> 1969 iirc ?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> 1973 was 240 days or something
[13:02] <jededu> I wish EdUPIC would do somthing
[13:03] <jededu> Like move :)
[13:03] <Laurenceb> its going to bomb speedevil
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> yay
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> it's about 30 miles from me
[13:05] <fsphil> clear skies?
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> the local weather forecast says yes
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> but I was out 20 minutes ago, and i'm sure I'dhave rememebred if so
[13:08] <fsphil> B-64 is never overhead here during the daytime or when there are no clouds
[13:09] <jededu> Got to go bbl
[13:12] <fsphil> manually corrected that string, missing the 0 padding on the crc
[13:13] <jededu> Ive fixed that :)
[13:14] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:15] <fsphil> if it moves further north we'll probably lose it
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> how big is edupic
[13:15] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@191.100.200.146.dyn.plus.net: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects! Please read the wiki - http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk , channel logs: http://habhub.org//zeusbot/
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> it should be at ~20 degrees or so, in the east for me.
[13:16] <jededu> what speedevil payload or balloon
[13:16] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/QzqnkBs.png
[13:16] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: on close inspection of the long-term trend - I think it's a butterfly.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Ormaybe the loch ness monster
[13:17] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@191.100.200.146.dyn.plus.net: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects! Please read the wiki - http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk , channel logs: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/
[13:17] <jededu> Payload is 60mm x 42mm balloon is 36" foil
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Ok - I'm not going to bother then - unless it's exceptional weather - which it's not
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> because i'm simply not going to see that at 30km
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> well - i mean I'll have a quick look
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> but I'm not expecting anything
[13:19] <jededu> Its turned east
[13:19] <fsphil> drat
[13:19] <jcoxon> it must have risen enough to catch the jetstream
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[13:24] <jededu> Now its motoring that was about 30ft
[13:24] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> The sky is one colour here.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> But that colour is not blue.
[13:27] <fsphil> looks simliar here
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Chances of visibility ~0
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[13:40] <LeoBodnar> !CAVOK
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[13:48] <fsphil> now it's going south
[13:48] <fsphil> sheesh
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[14:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3YT-1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK3YT-1
[14:51] <zjztgj> thx a lot for your explanations Laurenceb. What is the typical pressure difference between inside and outside? For a stable altitude at 300mbar absolute and temperature fluctuation of e.g. 40K (?) it must be at least 50mbar = 300mbar*40K/250K, right? seams to me quite significant esspecialy for huge ones.
[14:53] <fsphil> http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151_read-12221/year-all/#/gallery/17248
[14:53] <fsphil> the sound of Philae bouncing of a comet
[14:56] <M6XIMan> That is so cool
[14:59] <fsphil> second most distant audio recording ever I think
[14:59] <fsphil> only Huygens on Titan beats it
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[15:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No big change in altitude when edupicm8 reversed direction must just have been a wind change! http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EDUPICM8_20141119/index.php?ind=3
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[15:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RA4NHY - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=RA4NHY
[15:44] <jcoxon> edupic is taking its time
[15:45] <fsphil> enjoying scotland
[15:47] <jcoxon> good work by G3ZGZ
[15:49] <Laurenceb> <zjztgj> : B-64 is about 1kPa
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[15:58] <fsphil> occasionally drifting out of fldigi's afc range
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah ha hadn't spotted that B-64 had made land again!
[16:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-64_20140712/index.php?ind=11
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[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ooh looks good for an overflight of the UK again as well!
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Closing on 5 circumferences of earth flown.
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[16:14] <Laurenceb> to FAI rules?
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[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> if this loop (9) goes OK then it will be 4 easily within fai rules
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[16:16] <SpeedEvil> Still missing: Switzerland, Belgium, Luxemburg, Vatican city, Austria, croatia, Slovenia, Boznia hetzerwhatever, montenegro, Kosovo, serbia, hungary, slovakia, poland, check republic, lithuania, israel,...
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> It's hard to meaningfully comment on most of the stans, unless you count great circle hops
[16:19] <Myself> SpeedEvil: Is it possible to earn DXCC while strictly north of the equator? Heh.
[16:19] <zjztgj> Laurenceb, that means temperature differents between balloon and air is below 8K = 1kPa/30kPa*250K at daylight? So the balloon requires a very high transparency or reflectivity?
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> the balloon is almost entirely transparent in visible
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> It's - probably - a black body in IR
[16:21] <zjztgj> are there estimations about the temperature elevation by sinlight?
[16:21] <zjztgj> *sun light
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[16:22] <jededu_work> -35 already it might not last the night
[16:23] <Laurenceb> <zjztgj> : i dont follow
[16:23] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/2yT2bBm.png
[16:23] <Laurenceb> ambient pressure is 19kPa
[16:23] <Laurenceb> it varies by a few hundred max from day to night
[16:25] <Laurenceb> note that change in float pressure ~ 1.5 x change in internal pressure difference
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[16:25] <zjztgj> sry i estimated 30 kPa. The diagram is calculated from GPS altitude and an atmosphere model?
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[16:35] <Laurenceb> yes
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[16:39] <zjztgj> thank you very much Laurenceb, my own rough estimations where to far off to be near something that is realitic. Now everything fits mush better ;)
[16:39] <zjztgj> *much
[16:40] <qyx_> so the envelpe needs to withstand about 30kPa difference?
[16:40] <qyx_> er 19kPa
[16:40] <Laurenceb> no
[16:40] <Laurenceb> thats the ambient pressure
[16:41] <Laurenceb> difference is ~1kPa
[16:41] <qyx_> hm, not that much as i though
[16:45] <zjztgj> SpeedEvil, IR makes a significant fraction of the sun light. it seams to me the balloon must be quite transparent for IR as well. According to Laurencebs statements sun light heads the balloon les than 7K at day time.
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[16:52] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil meant longwave IR
[16:53] <Laurenceb> its not quite blackbody, but theres significant absorption there
[16:53] <M6XIMan> !ping LeoBodnar
[16:53] <SpacenearUS> 03M6XIMan: No contact from 03LeoBodnar
[16:53] <M6XIMan> Heh
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[16:54] <M6XIMan> Anyone here with experience of the si4060 or si4064? I have a PA matching circuit question
[16:54] <Laurenceb> go for it
[16:55] <Laurenceb> ive used si4432 and 4462
[16:55] <M6XIMan> The examples given by SI assume a single fundamental freq
[16:55] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:56] <M6XIMan> Is you wanted to build for dual band, what would be the best value for Lchoke? One that is 3x resonant ferquency of the lower band?
[16:56] <Laurenceb> what is Lchoke?
[16:56] <Laurenceb> the L to VCC that forms part of the class E driver?
[16:56] <M6XIMan> Yep
[16:56] <M6XIMan> Yes, sorry - missing some info there :)
[16:57] <Laurenceb> i dont really follow your stuff on resonant frequency
[16:57] <Laurenceb> also that inductor isnt critical
[16:58] <Laurenceb> it needs to be large enough to stop ripple at the operating frequency
[16:58] <Laurenceb> and have a self resonant frequency well above the operating frequency
[16:58] <M6XIMan> Sure - so in a dual-band scenario, a self-resonant frequency higher than the highest band
[16:58] <Laurenceb> yes, much higher :P
[16:59] <M6XIMan> SI recommend at least 3x
[16:59] <Laurenceb> sounds sane, there will be a strong third harmonic
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[17:03] <Ian_> zjztgj b-64 envelope believed to be EVOH - Mr Google will tell you more about that material.
[17:07] <zjztgj> thx Ian_. by searching for low permeance polymers i alreay came accross that copolymer.
[17:07] <Laurenceb> its probably actually Heptax
[17:07] <Laurenceb> PE-Nylon6-EVOH-Nylon6-Alu
[17:08] <Ian_> It does seem to have some good qualities.
[17:08] <zjztgj> ah its a laminate ?
[17:08] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:08] <M6XIMan> I should really try to avoid multitasking at work after reading back my questions :)
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[17:09] <Laurenceb> "HEPTAX (Heputakkusu)" is we are able to build up the seven things layer in the thin film.
[17:09] <Laurenceb> obviously even more complex
[17:09] <Ian_> More concerned about the quality of your work - nothing critical I hope
[17:09] <zjztgj> because EVOH has low permance but still much to high for flying many days
[17:09] <Laurenceb> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.gunze.co.jp/plastic/03/03_about.html&prev=search
[17:10] <Laurenceb> "Heputakkusu Heisei born. 1991 and (1991) is born. (At the time it was "FRESH WRAP (fresh wrap)".) 1991 is a turbulent one year, there of the Gulf War broke out, generation of pyroclastic flows Unzen"
[17:10] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[17:13] <Laurenceb> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.gunze.co.jp/plastic/03/03_lineup02.html&prev=search
[17:14] <zjztgj> fancy stuff...
[17:14] <Laurenceb> "Discoloration prevention"
[17:15] <Laurenceb> sounds like they have UV filtering version
[17:15] <Laurenceb> that could be useful, EVOH degrades after a few years of solar irradiation
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[17:18] <zjztgj> most polymers you can by contains already uv protection additives. "A few years" for a thin film sounds to me already quite ambitious...
[17:18] <zjztgj> *buy
[17:18] <Ian_> Looks like the diagram suggests that it's a Nylon - M0DNY - Nylon sandwitch . . . many flavours
[17:21] <Laurenceb> zjztgi: I have test data from their Xenon bulb rig
[17:21] <Laurenceb> but its unclear how best to scale to high altitude operation
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[17:22] <Laurenceb> im not sure if the degradation is UV photon limited, or water partial pressure limited
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[17:22] <Laurenceb> UV created free radicals hydrogenate the polymer chains through reaction with water
[17:23] <Laurenceb> but theres not enough data on the chemistry to scale well
[17:24] <Laurenceb> its known that mylar flies for about a year of typical sunlight before degrading, so thats a good reference point
[17:24] <zjztgj> what happends with the radicals without water available?
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[17:25] <Laurenceb> aiui they can recombine without damaging the polymer so seriously
[17:25] <Laurenceb> theres more crosslinking, but hydrogenation really kills things
[17:27] <Laurenceb> but with heptax nylon6 is the main structural element, and i cant find good data for it
[17:27] <zjztgj> does the hydrogenation creates radicals as well? or one photon one splitted chain?
[17:27] <Laurenceb> pretty much 1 to 1 aiui yes
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[17:28] <Laurenceb> 12km is below the ozone layer, so UV isnt so bad
[17:28] <Laurenceb> and theres little ozone
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[17:30] <zjztgj> is the Xenon bulb test made at a specified vater vapor pressure?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> yes, its quite high aiui
[17:31] <Laurenceb> 20C, 65% humidity
[17:31] <zjztgj> so vater vaper pressure it many magnitudes lower up there?
[17:31] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:32] <Laurenceb> 3000hour half life for tensile strength
[17:32] <Laurenceb> the bulb is about 2.5 solar intensity, on 24hours
[17:33] <zjztgj> sounds imressing
[17:33] <zjztgj> +p
[17:33] <Laurenceb> oh hang on
[17:33] Action: Laurenceb has access to gunze data archive through NDA
[17:34] <Laurenceb> they have nylon6
[17:34] <Laurenceb> yeah its almost twice as resistant as PET (mylar)
[17:35] <Laurenceb> but half life is only 1000hours
[17:35] <Laurenceb> there must be a large effect from water partial pressure
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[17:36] <det_> !dial EDUPICM8
[17:36] <SpacenearUS> 03det_: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC8 10(29b3): 0314.07 MHz, 434.22475 MHz
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[17:37] <Laurenceb> although mylar absorption is very high, so thicker film lasts longer
[17:37] <Laurenceb> there could be a protective effect from thick mylar, although the solar heating from the yellowed surface is going to heat the balloon a lot
[17:38] <Laurenceb> aiui GHOST solved this problem by aluminizing the top of the envelope only
[17:39] <Laurenceb> well - its unclear if there was a skin only weather effect, but they almninized the top to mitigate UV damage
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[17:47] <zjztgj> hm water concentration in the polymer depends not on absolute vapor pressure but on relative humidity
[17:48] <zjztgj> is up there lower than 65% ?
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[17:48] <Laurenceb> much lower
[17:49] <Laurenceb> usually a few %
[17:49] <zjztgj> ok
[17:50] <zjztgj> why is a full non-transparent almninium layer not an option? to heavy?
[17:50] <Laurenceb> it cracks
[17:51] <Laurenceb> elongation at break is much smaller than that of the polymer, so theres lots of small cracks as the balloon inflates
[17:51] <Laurenceb> this leads to overheating and burst after <1 week
[17:52] <zjztgj> overheating?
[17:52] <Laurenceb> more cracks -> most solar heating -> more cracks
[17:53] <Laurenceb> after a while it runs away
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[18:07] <zjztgj> didn't mind that elongation for nylon is relly significant when going near its maximim streanth
[18:08] <zjztgj> so the radiation that can passes the cracks can be quite noticeable
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[18:52] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[19:02] <poland> witajcie jak odbiera ten sygnaB na jakie[ czstotliwo[ci? welcome to receive the signal on any frequency?
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[19:25] <Upu-> hey jededu
[19:25] <Upu-> I can still see EDUPIC
[19:25] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[19:26] <Upu> hi Poland, nothing up over poland atm ?
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[19:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03B-64 after 0315 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=B-64
[19:35] <jededu> Yes upu doing well just a bit static
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[19:35] <arko> hi there b64
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[19:36] <jededu> It might last the night temp seems stable
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[19:36] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/h8jtZRI.jpg
[19:36] <Upu> so weak can't decode
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[19:38] <jededu> Is there anything in the way
[19:38] <Upu> hills most likely
[19:39] <jededu> G3ZGZ has had it almost constantly good man
[19:40] <Upu> I have hills behind me, rarely get a decent signal from further North
[19:40] <Upu> surprised I can get it all tbh
[19:42] <jededu> Its the same here I have much more success tracking southern payloads dont know why
[19:42] <mikestir> is edupic coming back again?
[19:43] <jededu> At the moment its camping
[19:43] <mikestir> !dial edupicm8
[19:43] <SpacenearUS> 03mikestir: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC8 10(29b3): 0314.07 MHz
[19:43] <mikestir> ha
[19:43] <Upu> err no :)
[19:43] <Upu> 434.425
[19:43] <Upu> 225
[19:43] <mikestir> I won't get it yet but I'll put the radio on anyway just in case
[19:43] <Upu> Well I can see it
[19:44] <Upu> just too weak to decode
[19:44] <mikestir> oh yeah me too just now
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> yellowknife woke up, finally!
[19:44] <mikestir> doesn't need to be much stronger
[19:45] <Upu> yay :)
[19:45] <Upu> damn thats north
[19:45] <fsphil> oh it's still going
[19:45] <Upu> edge of your range Phil
[19:46] <fsphil> yea just checking. been hovering just on my horizon all day
[19:46] <fsphil> yea signal is still there
[19:46] <fsphil> just a little bit too weak
[19:46] <Upu> yup same here
[19:48] <mikestir> one of the multi-tone modes would be decoding I reckon
[19:48] <jededu> Its taken 7 hours to move from landfall to where it is
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[19:49] <Upu> certainly in no hurry
[19:50] <Upu> battery looks ok
[19:50] <jededu> Im working on Dominoex for the next one
[19:50] <Upu> drop is just due to temp
[19:50] <Upu> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/EDUPICM8#g/battery,temperature
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[19:50] <LeoBodnar> should last a while
[19:51] <jededu> Nice correlation
[19:52] <jededu> And I have fixed the checksum padding
[19:52] <Upu> Looks like B-64 is going to pay Jim another visit
[19:52] <andyfletcher> that thing is going to keep going forever
[19:53] <edmoore> i bet it won't
[19:53] <jiffe> now you jinxed it, good job andyfletcher
[19:53] <fsphil> hah
[19:53] <edmoore> i'm willing to put some money behind that
[19:54] <andyfletcher> impressive bit of engineering all round
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[20:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Is the APRS B-64 data making it into snus tonight, it seems to have stopped a while back ?
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[20:46] <jcoxon> oh the yellowknife node is on
[20:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ah its caught up ..... tks who ever cleared it!
[20:48] <DL7AD> not me this time
[20:49] <DL7AD> evening btw
[20:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Evening Sven
[20:50] <DL7AD> hi Geoff-G8DHE_
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[20:54] <Laurenceb_> ooh B-64 is back
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> it needs someone to fly up there and bend the panels to vertical
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> oh yellowknife is alive :D
[20:58] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders if they switched it back on just for B balloons
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> !hysplit run B-64
[21:00] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: You need to be an admin to do that.
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> boo
[21:00] <Myself> hehe. I'm hoping it swings by Detroit again :)
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> EDUPICM8 going nowhere fast
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[21:07] <jededu> Just a little south http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-1.89,53.77,3000
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> jededu: damn,that's cool
[21:09] <jededu> Love it :)
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-1.89,53.77,3000
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/4JEN48K.png
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> Oh - it's got 70 too
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/70hPa/orthographic=-1.89,53.77,3000
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> that's much closer to theballoon altitude
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> vertical panels in winter is massively batter
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> *better
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> oh - nevermind
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> edupicis only at 7km, so it's going to be ~300mb
[21:13] <jededu> Speed is increasing
[21:13] <jededu> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/EDUPICM8#g/_speed
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[21:17] <jededu> 500 hPa = 5,574m
[21:17] <jededu> http://meteorologytraining.tpub.com/14269/css/14269_75.htm
[21:18] <jededu> Cant find wind data at 400 hPa
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> the models compute it, but it's only published at certain slices
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> interpolate :P
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> http://earth.nullschool.net/#2014/11/21/2100Z/wind/isobaric/10hPa/orthographic=1.61,50.00,335 wow
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> someone is a javascript god
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> south polar jet stream is off center and weaker
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[21:22] <jededu> I think its in that stream traveling at 20kmh now
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[21:23] <SpeedEvil> i guess considering probability of going over any point on earth - this scales with windspeed
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> relative windspeed over the globe
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[21:35] <noobie_> Helo
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> ehlo
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> http://nldr.library.ucar.edu/repository/assets/natlballoonfac/NSBF-000-000-000-075.pdf
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> " An even more promising technique suggested by Professor
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> Morel is being evaluated for improved balloon location. This involves
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> the simultaneous use of sun angle elevation and the vertical component
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> of the e arthfs magnetic field to provide location"
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[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> The above comes with actual source
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[22:00] <SpeedEvil> https://github.com/cambecc/earth
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> http://blendmaster.github.io/geoid/
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[22:34] <jededu> !hysplit EDUPICM8
[22:34] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: HYSPLIT for 03EDUPICM8 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141120-16_199915_EDUPICM8.gif
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[22:53] <noobie_> I have some rookie questions about HAB-ing, if somebody has time, please contact in PM
[22:55] <chrisstubbs> Fire away in here noobie_
[22:55] <Miek> noobie_: you'll generally have more luck just asking questions in the channel, that way people know whether they can help before responding and it helps others who might be watching
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[22:59] <noobie_> Ok, i'll be back tomorrow... it's 01.00 here :)
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[23:14] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrR31nHCV-U&feature=youtu.be
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[23:25] Action: Laurenceb_ is back to the old problem of trying to find polymer absorption spectra
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> wish there was a database somewhere
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> im trying to scale some of the test data
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> from Xenon bulbs
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> looks like nylon6 degradation is going to be slightly better than mylar
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[23:37] <fsphil> that 96khz firmware for the pi has helped it on my laptop, it's running now but a bit choppy
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[23:38] <fsphil> I think it's still expecting 192khz
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 21 2014