highaltitude.log.20141104

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[03:10] <goopypanther> so, when b-64 eventually comes down, what will probably be the cause? Micro helium leak? UV weakening of the balloon?
[03:11] <goopypanther> Rival hams with pointy high altitude FPV planes? :B
[03:13] <Myself> Hehehe. Tellya what, if it starts losing altitude indicitative of a leak, and it's about to head out over water, I think it'd be hilarious for someone to head out with an R/C device of some sort and bring it down where it can be recovered :) That would be another first, I bet.
[03:16] <joeman> hi,
[03:16] <joeman> if the moon hasn't risen
[03:16] <joeman> would a HAB be able to see much further around to see the balloon?
[03:16] <joeman> my thinking is it wouldn't see much more of the moon
[03:16] <joeman> but a recent flight I saw moon from HAB...but according to charts, it shouldn't have risen for another 3.5 hours
[03:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UKRHAB-2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=UKRHAB-2
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[08:18] <SpeedEvil> joeman: a balloon has a negative horizon anle
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> angle
[08:18] <SpeedEvil> that is - you can see more of the sky
[08:19] <SpeedEvil> But - 3.5 hours - not if it's in the same location as you but at a different altitude
[08:20] <fsphil> an hour at most
[08:27] <Maxell> Myself: yeah but that would need quite a bit of timing in the last 300 meters :P
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[08:48] <Laurenceb> http://arxiv.org/abs/1410.8001
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[10:08] <LeoBodnar> interesting read
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> somebody noticed that anti-establishment cultures tend to be more bound by the strict rules than establishment itself
[10:13] <nats`> counter culture often needs strict rules because they grab a large panel of different people bounded only because they hate something
[10:13] <nats`> which is a really small point to be "friendly"
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[10:22] <gonzo_> generally people like structure and order. You get these groups where people who have not made it in the mainstream world join them, as it offers more 'prospects' for advancement for them
[10:22] <gonzo_> then you get gangs
[10:23] <gonzo_> a phrase I saw in a pratchett book which I like, when you are at the bottom of the ladder there rungs are very close together
[10:23] <Chetic> <-chet
[10:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PS
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[11:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX4 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VORTEX4
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[11:18] <day> gonzo_: but the runges arent closer together at the bottom :0
[11:18] <day> ´._.`
[11:19] <gonzo_> day: the metaphorical ones do seem to be. And the quote went on, 'and my, aren't the people careful of them'
[11:21] <day> gonzo_: i like the chaos is a ladder quote more :?
[11:23] <gonzo_> google says that is game of tits... thrones
[11:23] <gonzo_> never seen it
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[11:25] <day> gonzo_: its a quote from the series maybe book. check youtube. Its one of the best scenes in the series. perfect acting imho :)
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[12:06] <Oddstr13> heh, that looks kinda fancy xD http://puu.sh/cCR3c/480a9c9a99.png
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[12:12] <fsphil> hah, cute
[12:12] <fsphil> any idea what it was?
[12:12] <Oddstr13> playing around with one of these https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10534
[12:12] <Oddstr13> arduino, pwm, resistors & capacitors :P
[12:13] <Oddstr13> trying to figure out how to make it output something usable
[12:13] <fsphil> good luck :)
[12:14] <Oddstr13> I might need that, as I have no idea of what i'm doing :P
[12:15] <Oddstr13> I mean, I can just give the thing serial data, and it sounds kinda like the rest of the stuff around the 434MHz band :P
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[12:15] <Oddstr13> but if I give it a analog voltage, the frequency varies
[12:18] <Oddstr13> what are you guys using for tracking?
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[12:20] <fsphil> ntx2b
[12:20] <craag> http://hab.supplies/
[12:20] <fsphil> we need an !upu command
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[12:24] <LeoBodnar> !upu
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[12:29] <Laurenceb_> need payment over irc first
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[12:43] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCSxu/16662e8783.png
[12:43] <UpuWork> Hello
[12:44] <jarod> Oddstr13 change your range
[12:44] <Oddstr13> jarod: what do you mean?
[12:44] <jarod> in sdrsharp
[12:44] <jarod> on the right.. the range slider
[12:44] <jarod> rtlsdr? put it on -70
[12:45] <Oddstr13> zoom? speed?
[12:45] <UpuWork> summon upu will work :)
[12:45] <UpuWork> + makes me feel important
[12:45] <jarod> not zoom, not sped.. but range
[12:45] <Oddstr13> is that something rather new?
[12:45] <jarod> how old is your sdrsharp?
[12:45] <jarod> lol
[12:45] <Oddstr13> havn't updated sdr# in a while
[12:46] <jarod> lol ok
[12:46] <Oddstr13> 1.0.0.1174
[12:46] <jarod> missing a lot of features then
[12:46] <jarod> LOL
[12:46] <jarod> its under fft display there, but upgrade man
[12:46] <Oddstr13> sure :P
[12:47] <jarod> and preorder an airspy.com if you want to have a proper receiver :)
[12:49] <Oddstr13> I want a hackrf eventualy
[12:49] <Oddstr13> with an HamItUp
[12:53] <LeoBodnar> !upu serve black spot
[12:53] <jarod> the airspy is much better
[12:54] <jarod> and the hackrf already works down to 100khz ish...
[12:54] <fsphil> hackrf transmits
[12:54] <jarod> and? :)
[12:55] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCT0b/2554f471b7.png
[12:55] <fsphil> means it's better :)
[12:55] <fsphil> for just receiving then yea the airspy is better
[12:55] <jarod> yap
[12:55] <Oddstr13> why is it better?
[12:55] <UpuWork> or jsut get a BladeRF
[12:55] <Oddstr13> have you tried both?
[12:56] <fsphil> better dynamic range
[12:56] <fsphil> the hackrf is 8-bit
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[12:56] <fsphil> airspy is more than that (don't know exactly)
[12:56] <jarod> 12
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> nice
[12:56] <UpuWork> same as the Blade and the FCD
[12:56] <jarod> what is the range of the hamitup?
[12:57] <nats`> it makes me laugh to see people upconverting HF
[12:57] <nats`> ...
[12:57] <nats`> just make a clean down convert to sound card
[12:57] <craag> ^^ soo much more dynamic range
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> upconverting HF is so crap
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> it's like using inverter in a car to charge a mobile phone
[12:59] <Oddstr13> you use a switchmode 5v regulator for that :P
[12:59] Action: craag raises hands slowly (14V - > 240V -> 19V -> laptop)
[12:59] <nats`> LeoBodnar it's worst !
[12:59] <nats`> you upconvert to used frequency
[12:59] <jarod> what is the range of the ham it up? cant find :/
[12:59] <nats`> + you use a crappy frontend behind
[13:00] <nats`> and you redown convert is with iq inbalance
[13:00] <nats`> how to lose on all the rf chain
[13:00] <Oddstr13> nats`: how should it be done then?
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> direct sampling :D
[13:00] <nats`> a good down converter to audio level
[13:01] <nats`> usually in HF BW is fittable in audio
[13:01] <nats`> and for the price of your ham it up just buy an usb sound card
[13:01] <nats`> seriously there are no point to upconvert HF to use it with a dvbt dongle
[13:02] <Oddstr13> nats`: well... I doubt just connecting an antenna to the USB soundcard works?
[13:03] <nats`> you take a down converter like softrock or your own
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.nuand.com/blog/product/hf-vhf-transverter/
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> how many SMA O_o
[13:05] <UpuWork> all of them :)
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> ugly
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> RA and straight
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> 45 degree components
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> why?
[13:11] <nats`> because you need them all !
[13:11] <nats`> :D
[13:12] <nats`> pretty sure many of them could have been ripped with an intelligent use of rf switch :D
[13:12] <nats`> or even RF relay for ELF/VLF/HF
[13:13] <nats`> or sorry it's tx and rx
[13:13] <nats`> they need them but they are weirdly placed
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> B-64 charging nicely now
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> we need to know how long loon has flown for :D
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> the problem with loon is it uses polythene, so they cant make it fly much longer than 100 days even if they wanted to
[13:19] <nats`> why ?
[13:19] <nats`> it's destroyed by UV ?
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> not just that
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> its very permeable to He
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> PE is used to cover gas sensors :P
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> >10^4 times worse than EVOH
[13:21] <nats`> ohh oky
[13:22] <Laurenceb_> in stratospheric conditions probably 10^5 times worse
[13:22] <LeoBodnar> http://ravenind.com/2014/08/07/raven-industries-balloon-for-googles-project-loon/
[13:23] <Oddstr13> fsphil: I guess better dynamic range might help for decoding weaker signals?
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> 120 days was probably important milestone at the time
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> 120days is longer than anything other than GHOSt aiui
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> why is there no FAI records table for unmanned duration :-/
[13:26] <Oddstr13> I wish my old radio did other modulations than AM
[13:27] <Oddstr13> in the SW band I mean
[13:27] <fsphil> Oddstr13: yea, or handle loud nearby signals a bit better
[13:27] <Oddstr13> what loud nearby signals? :P
[13:27] <Oddstr13> RRI? :P
[13:28] <Oddstr13> except for hams, there are no broadcasts in the SW band in this country
[13:28] <Oddstr13> well, I guess the millitary has that STANAG stuff
[13:29] <Oddstr13> but there havn't been any comercial broadcasts for years
[13:30] <craag> On the HF band there is a massive signal strength difference between someone a few miles away, and someone a few hundred miles away
[13:30] <craag> You don't notice this as your radio will adjust it's gain to suit
[13:30] <craag> But it's this difference that a lot of sdr interfaces struggle with on the HF bands
[13:32] <Oddstr13> I guess that has to do with the fact that it can receive it all at once
[13:32] <craag> Yeah that too
[13:33] <craag> If you're listening to a weak signal, and it ramps up the gain, that might cause a loud signal 50KHz away to overload your frontend
[13:33] <Oddstr13> http://oddstr13.openshell.no/gallery/image/77/ this is the old radio in question btw
[13:33] <craag> causing intermodulation and nasty effects all over the frequency space
[13:34] <craag> not a problem in 'hard' radio rigs as they often have very tight IF (even RF) filters
[13:34] <LeoBodnar> " In 1973, during Project Boomerang, 68 kg payloads were flown at 24 km altitude using 19.5 m diameter spheres. One of the balloons flew for 210 days."
[13:37] <LeoBodnar> http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA206975
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> ooh
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> hadnt heard of that one
[13:38] <LeoBodnar> "2.1.1.2 Tetrahedron"
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> still
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> most of the ghost stuff was at 15 or 20km
[13:38] <LeoBodnar> whare are Highballoons?
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> B-64 may be a 12km record
[13:39] <LeoBodnar> DoD should use Highballoons
[13:39] <mattbrejza> (TM)
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> ah they used nylon 6
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> very interesting - we get to see how UV resistant it is
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> For the PAGEOS program [2-5], a 0.5 mil Mylar layer was
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> coated with a 2000 Angstrom layer of aluminum on the outside to reflect the sunlight
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> odd
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> how come it didnt overheat
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> yay fortran
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> ouch page 34
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> 110C
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> "blackball temperature"
[13:47] <LeoBodnar> why did they use Ali?
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> i guess to stop diffusion
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> EVOH wasnt around then
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[13:48] <nenad> hello, has anybody tested/worked with the tnc-pi for the raspberry?
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> !upu
[13:51] <UpuWork> lol
[13:51] <UpuWork> yes
[13:51] <UpuWork> I run one
[13:52] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCVdy/626b06b2fe.png Did I just find a ham?
[13:54] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCVjI/6acedf58b7.png also, radar of sort?
[13:54] <Oddstr13> or is that some digital mode?
[13:55] Action: Oddstr13 goes to find the rtlsdr signal id guide
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[14:36] <Oddstr13> I need a better antenna.
[14:37] <Oddstr13> I doubt the short whip currently connected is particulary suited for 27 MHz :P
[14:42] <gonzo_> Oddstr13, the second trace you posted looks like a modem with a pretty flat/square spectrum, but sublected to selective fading. You see/hear it all over HF with the stanag signals
[14:43] <Oddstr13> http://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/File:DRM_Waterfall.png Kinda similar to this too
[14:44] <gonzo_> the first could just be ssb with a freq transpose ecnryption (common for marine telephone)
[14:44] <Oddstr13> sounded like jumbled speach, yes
[14:46] <gonzo_> yep, without the selectiove fading you would just have a block of signal. The fading is multipath propegation, that is mixing st your rx, and causing peaks and nulls in signel, but that is frequency dependent.
[14:46] <gonzo_> you see it on all but the strong groundwave only HF signals
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[14:48] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCXLx/7fe0ba501c.png this stuff, however, more likley radar?
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[14:51] <LeoBodnar> probably someone's toothbrush
[14:53] <gonzo_> that one looks more like some drifting qrm
[14:53] <gonzo_> smpsu or clock in something
[14:53] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCY2H/af551ee91f.png found more of this stuff, managed to record audio this time
[14:54] <gonzo_> hf radar is likely to be spread spectrum these days
[14:56] <gonzo_> there are a few ionosond sweep transmitters around. They sweep the 1.5-30mHz in about four and a half minutes. Those are used for assessing the ionosphere, to know what frequencies are sueable on certain paths
[14:56] <gonzo_> ionosonde
[14:56] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/cCYal/86789ebe6e.wav
[14:57] <gonzo_> at work, have no speakers
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[14:59] <Oddstr13> might just be me not tuning properly
[15:01] <Oddstr13> found USB voice, sounds like spanish or some such
[15:02] <Oddstr13> Kinda amazed, as this is just a RTL-SDR
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[15:03] Nick change: day -> DrDeagle
[15:16] <Oddstr13> haha, i think I just found my wireless keyboard xD
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[15:18] <Laurenceb_> can anyone here help me install java on linux?
[15:19] <Ben__> What distro?
[15:19] <Oddstr13> I tend to just use the ones in the repoos
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> default-jre is already the newest version.
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> libjna-java
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> it seems like i have an apt-get issue
[15:19] <nats`> uhhmmm nop
[15:19] <Oddstr13> that's just a library
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> just remove everything?
[15:20] <nats`> you need the "real" java ?
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> there 100 others i havent pasted
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> its listing all the java libs
[15:20] <nats`> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-java-on-ubuntu-with-apt-get
[15:20] <nats`> because by default ubuntu use openjgk
[15:20] <nats`> and not the oracle java
[15:20] <nats`> sometimes it's a problem
[15:20] <Ben__> I think in the Ubuntu repositories it's openjdk-jre-7
[15:20] <Ben__> or whatever version you need
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> eww
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> ok ill try that
[15:21] <nats`> check that page
[15:21] <nats`> there are many up to date information
[15:21] <nats`> I often drop open jdk for oracle jdk on ubuntu
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> i hate java
[15:21] <nats`> yay I know who doesn't ?
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> mr ellison
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[15:22] <Oddstr13> openjdk ftw
[15:22] <Oddstr13> screw oracle
[15:22] <Ben__> I hate java too
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> ok i dunno
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> somethings screwed
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> i havent got the energy for this :-/
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> too old
[15:23] <nats`> yay the eternal painfull "repair your tool before working"
[15:23] <nats`> I hate that
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> all i wanted to do was open an xls file
[15:23] <nats`> hopefully for now scilab never mad me crap with java
[15:23] <LeoBodnar> repair your toolchain while young
[15:23] <Ben__> You could use libreoffice google docs if that's all you need to do
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah ill have to switch to scilab
[15:23] <Ben__> *libreoffice or google docs
[15:24] <nats`> yep
[15:24] <nats`> libreoffice => csv
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> i think ill call the gnumeric backend using system
[15:24] <nats`> maybe a better technic :)
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> nasty hacks ftw
[15:24] <nats`> thats.... that's
[15:24] <nats`> that's just....
[15:24] <nats`> ewwwwwkkkk
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[15:28] <BenPylko> What do people recommend for a balloon tracker?
[15:28] <nats`> a ballon tracker
[15:28] <nats`> :D
[15:29] <craag> !wiki arduino+ntx2
[15:29] <nats`> Laurenceb_ if you switch to scilab be sure to use the 5.5.x version
[15:29] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: No results for your query
[15:29] <mfa298> BenPylko: where in the world are you ?
[15:29] <Laurenceb_> ok
[15:29] <nats`> they really improved many bug
[15:29] <nats`> corrected
[15:30] <nats`> (and really improved some bug :D)
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:30] <BenPylko> I'm in a school club in New York, and we're trying to get as high as possible. We currently have something like a TinyTrack
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> actually my solution works more nicely
[15:30] <BenPylko> I don't know exactly what the name is
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> as the perman00bs who generate the xls files use inconsistent properties for the columns
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> so time is sometimes a string
[15:31] <mfa298> For the USA one of the APRS trackers may be the easiest options but you'll need someone with an amateur radio license.
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> converting to ascii and string reading is the only way
[15:31] <mfa298> but make sure what you use can handle higher altitudes (a lot will cut out at 12km / 18km)
[15:31] <BenPylko> Yeah, we work with some amateur radio operators when we launch.
[15:33] <pmhs> How much does your payload weigh?
[15:34] <pmhs> nats: how much does your payload weigh?
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[15:51] Nick change: DrDeagle -> day
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[15:58] <LeoBodnar> Interesting "Flights from Ascension Island at 30 and 50 mb showed that balloons can suffer damage from too-rapid ascent through the tropo- pause."
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> from GHOST-files
[15:58] <fsphil> balloon bends
[15:59] <LeoBodnar> it could be awkward folds in mylar skin that did not have time to spread naturally
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[16:00] <fsphil> yea creating a weakness along where the fold was
[16:00] <fsphil> very slow ascents are risky too
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[16:46] <Laurenceb_> 3.81v, nice
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[16:53] <SpeedEvil> So, +Portugal, Spain, Algeria, Tunisia, and Greece upcoming
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UR5FYG_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=UR5FYG_chase
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[19:13] <LeoBodnar> you can look at two spheres MIS balloon as a two-gore balloon flying on its side
[19:20] <nats`> gmail: Google Talk app for Windows is no longer supported. It is being replaced by the new Hangouts Chrome app. Install the Hangouts app from http://goo.gl/yglfk6
[19:20] <nats`> time to leave gtazlk and find an other IM
[19:21] <mattbrejza> irc for everyone
[19:22] <nats`> uhhh for non IT people...
[19:26] <mattbrejza> fun for all the family
[19:26] <mattbrejza> im sure your parents can handle irssi fine
[19:26] <nats`> yay let's learn them ssh / screen and irssi :D
[19:26] <nats`> I already heard "hey internet is broken again!"
[19:27] <zyp> isn't gtalk jabber based? can't you just use any jabber client?
[19:27] <zyp> hmm, I guess jabber is called xmpp nowadays
[19:27] <nats`> they are breaking it
[19:28] <nats`> bridge from jabber to gtalk are no more working correctly
[19:28] <zyp> also, what's wrong with hangouts?
[19:28] <nats`> all the g+ integration
[19:29] <nats`> gtalk application was really to the level where MSN1 was :p
[19:29] <nats`> your contact list and a chat window
[19:29] <nats`> no other stuf around
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[20:39] <pc1pcl> :( my little basement hobby corner is getting too cold. Damn environmentalists with their efficient lights. I want my 120 Watt heatballs back..
[20:39] <fsphil> buy an nvidia gfx card
[20:40] <fsphil> my room is noticably warmer when my big desktop PC is on
[20:41] <pc1pcl> hmm yeah, maybe I shouldn't have put in all these low-power but nice and silent thin clients and arm based units.. at least desktop pc's are still for sale ;)
[20:42] <fsphil> for now!
[20:43] <pc1pcl> I'll just stop the noise of the fans with a sateh-stick, and if they catch fire, bonus! ;)
[20:43] <pc1pcl> Should have a 'dummyload' somewhere that is actually an old heating element from a rice cooker....
[20:48] <mikestir> at the risk of stating the obvious, why not just buy a heater? :)
[20:50] <pc1pcl> I have two, they are just buried in stuff..
[20:50] <pc1pcl> and ther's even central heating, again, buried in stuff..
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[20:53] <pc1pcl> anyway, the central heating radiator wasn't as covered with stuff as I remembered, of course, the rest of the house is probably wamr already now, so the thermostat will have switched everything off..
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[21:01] <richardeoin> Us Bristol University people are plotting about an automated receiver http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/posts/receiver/UBSEDS_HAB_Receiver_Proposal.pdf
[21:01] <richardeoin> Has anyone tried this in the past?
[21:02] <pc1pcl> I think at 'revspace' here in The Hague something like that is set up.
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> if i see arduino or rpi in this pdf i am going to be sad
[21:04] <richardeoin> I'm afraid you might see rpi :-(
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> this does not look good "Single Board Computer"
[21:04] <richardeoin> pc1pcl: Ahah https://revspace.nl/HAB_Tracker_Station
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[21:04] <Upu> in fairness also mentions BBB LeoBodnar :)
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> omg why
[21:05] <pc1pcl> yeah, im not directly involved and not sure how automated it is or maybe just 'remote operatable'.
[21:05] <pc1pcl> Maxell and bertrik are in here often though. (see also https://revspace.nl/HabAlertApp )
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> why select the platform before even evaluating the performance?!
[21:06] <richardeoin> LeoBodnar: it's very much "some ideas" at this stage
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> "Tracking multiple balloons at the same time" gtfo
[21:07] <mfa298> for decoding of >1 balloon I think most of the singe board computers will be underpowered
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> multiple decoding across 1MHz bandwidth?
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> on RPi?
[21:07] <fsphil> you can make LeoBodnar happy if you used Z80
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> i am into 68000 this week
[21:08] <mfa298> you might make it work if you write a lot (almost all) of the code yourself
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> no but honestly
[21:08] <pc1pcl> or somehow coopt the GPU instead of CPU?
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[21:08] <LeoBodnar> why not PPC based say MacMini?
[21:09] <Upu> if you can provide code for the Pi that does what you want RPi foundation have said they will get someone to GPU accelerate it
[21:09] <Upu> for stuff like this
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> why select some random platform straight off the bat
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[21:09] <lz1dev> ^
[21:09] <Upu> Pi is random ?
[21:09] <Upu> popular would be a better word
[21:09] <pc1pcl> maybe for no-technical reasons like rings a bell with sponsors nd they think it's cool and spend money on it.
[21:09] <lz1dev> no but start with requirements, and find best platform that fits
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> still random
[21:10] <pc1pcl> or you have 25 RPis lying around already.
[21:10] <Upu> its accesible well supported and cheap
[21:10] <richardeoin> It's really not a technical spec - just something to get people interested in the project
[21:10] <pc1pcl> It's free often trumps 'it's technically supewrior'
[21:10] <LeoBodnar> it does not seem to be powerful enough for this project
[21:10] <pc1pcl> also, if it doesn't work they way yo thought, it's more educational.\
[21:10] <Upu> possibly with GPU acceleration
[21:11] <edmoore> it's not well supported at all
[21:11] <Upu> which they have said to us they would allocate a programmer too
[21:11] <edmoore> if you think that, phone up braodcom now and ask them about a random register
[21:11] <pc1pcl> or if decoding is done with dedicated hardware per balloon, and postprocessing/uploading to hub by another Pi.
[21:11] <mfa298> also I expect you want a lower level language (asm/c/c++) to do the processing in rather than node/python/ruby (or at least a good way of compiling an interpreted language (cyphon ?)
[21:11] <Upu> didn't quite mean that but fair enough
[21:12] <pc1pcl> of course then it will be more of a 'integration' project then a 'decode balloon' project.
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> educational means "educational"
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> there is nothing educational about RPi
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> it's just a powerful arduino
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> with most projects coming off instructables adn youtubables
[21:13] <Upu> its not a powerful Arduino
[21:14] <lz1dev> it's not a fair comprision :)
[21:14] <edmoore> yeah
[21:14] <edmoore> easier to do real-time stuff on an arduino
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[21:14] <LeoBodnar> making 4 bit CPU from TTL gates is more educational than writing 10klocs in python on RPi
[21:15] <Upu> anyway richardeoin good luck with your idea
[21:15] <pc1pcl> the educational value could come from other aspects of the project. And I think agree with Upu that's it not really an Arduino, but more of a PC.
[21:15] <lz1dev> you can't force every programmer to wire things up
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[21:15] <Upu> if you get something working and need it GPU accelerating they did offer ages ago
[21:16] <edmoore> stallman would spin in his grave at that kind of thing
[21:16] <edmoore> if he weren;t still alive
[21:16] <richardeoin> We had ~25 people turn up to an meeting about it today, so hopefully it'll get off the ground ;-)
[21:16] <edmoore> i think thought they've already published some fft libraries that use the gpu?
[21:17] <edmoore> i might have imagined that
[21:17] <Upu> I think they did
[21:17] <edmoore> but that's really the bit you want accelerating
[21:17] <edmoore> although given the low bandwidth you probably won;t get a huge amount from it
[21:18] <richardeoin> If we can afford something like a BladeRF the processing could be done on a fpga...
[21:18] <pc1pcl> yeah, but even without the GPU, the CPU itself is a lot more powerful than the C-64, TRS-80 or 99/4a s from my youth, so you ought to b eable to both learn stuff about programming from it and do something useful.
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> what you agoing to learn by installing fldigi on an RPi?
[21:18] <pc1pcl> that it runs too slow.
[21:18] <lz1dev> ^
[21:18] <richardeoin> me - nothing
[21:18] <pc1pcl> and that you'd need to rip the guts out and write stand alone CLI programs
[21:18] <edmoore> i'm wrong, the speedup is good even for small fft's
[21:18] <edmoore> http://www.raspberrypi.org/accelerating-fourier-transforms-using-the-gpu/
[21:18] <richardeoin> physics student who has barely done anything practical ever - lots :-)
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> that you need to throw away cheap/enforce/populist/ubiqutous platform and do proper planning
[21:19] <mfa298> there's also a large range of single board computers which may be better than the pi (e.g not having ethernet and usb sharing the same bus which could become one of many limiting factors)
[21:19] <edmoore> i guess my bias was from overheads in talking to the gpu that aren't present so much within the chip
[21:20] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: you'll learn that the pi doesn't have enough power to usefully run dl-fldigi
[21:20] <pc1pcl> if you contrast it with other machines (e.g. full-blown pc, laptop, craptop, one of those intel based minipcs, C-64 or BBC archmedies etc.)
[21:21] <pc1pcl> But yeah, Leo does have a point, that you need to make clear what your (learning) goals are, and select tools/equipment based on that.
[21:23] <pc1pcl> on the other hand, if oyu don't really care about /what/ is learned and if anything is doing 'something useful' in the end, you can probably learn something from anything, and it matters not if it's a Pi or some flint and chewing gum you picked up in the street.
[21:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03f8ffp-9_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=f8ffp-9_chase
[21:28] <richardeoin> does anyone know what board in the middle of revspace's old setup is? https://revspace.nl/File:4vLbEty.jpg
[21:28] <richardeoin> some kind of preamp potentially?
[21:28] <Upu> its a V1 Habamp
[21:29] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=82
[21:29] <Upu> thats V3
[21:29] <bertrik> we no longer use the raspberry pi, it's no some windows XP machine running sdr#, remotely controllable over teamviewer and vnc
[21:29] <bertrik> *now
[21:32] <richardeoin> bertrik: thanks for the info, I noticed the rpi had disappeared from the new setup
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[21:36] <mfa298> richardeoin: I think in the old setup the pi was just streaming raw data over the network to sdr# on another pc (so it wasn't doing any useful decoding)
[21:39] <richardeoin> mfa298: ah, that checks out
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[22:47] <Ian_> Oddstr13 [12:12] You wuz robbed - Nice Sparkfun profit on the 1500 they expect in stock - ebay.co.uk/itm/400684009029?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[22:47] <fsphil> does the FCDP+ usually show up in lsusb as 04d8:fb31 Microchip Technology, Inc. ?
[22:48] <mattbrejza> i doubt fcd spent £5k on their own VID
[22:49] <mattbrejza> so seems likely
[22:49] <fsphil> ah that string doesn't come from the device itself?
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> it is
[22:49] <fsphil> trying to figure out of this fcdp+ is broken
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> MC just gave them the right to use one PID from their range
[22:50] <mattbrejza> that vid is a microchip one. some strings come from the device though
[22:50] <mattbrejza> put lsusb on linux i think is based on vid/pid
[22:51] <mattbrejza> *but
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> "Microchip Technology, Inc." is most probably an OS lookup of the VID owner
[22:51] <Ian_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400684009029?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[22:51] <craag> iirc the fcdpp interface is a pic
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[22:51] <fsphil> yea there's a pic in there
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> yeah PIC24 something
[22:51] <Ian_> Sorry link was broken previously
[22:52] <fsphil> it used to work on my old laptop but now has the same error
[22:52] <fsphil> not enough bandwidth
[22:52] <craag> fsphil: weird - shouldn't be that demanding
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> it's only 90kHz audio interface
[22:53] <craag> 192khz for pp
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> ah
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> that's what i meant :D
[22:53] <LeoBodnar> but still just an audio interface
[22:53] <craag> mm
[22:53] <fsphil> yea 192khz and just control
[22:54] <craag> control still seems a bit bugged on mine
[22:54] <fsphil> latest error is "cannot get freq at ep 0x81"
[22:54] <fsphil> what does that even mean
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> try plugging it into a HS hub
[22:54] <fsphil> don't have any
[22:54] <mattbrejza> ep = endpoint
[22:54] <LeoBodnar> ep is endpoint
[22:54] <mattbrejza> the usb equivelent of a socket in tcp
[22:54] <mattbrejza> *port
[22:55] <craag> I haven't looked for firmware updates recently
[22:55] <fsphil> this has the latest firmware, hasn't changed in a while
[22:55] <fsphil> I suspect it's a firmware bug
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> a lot of FS devices benefit massively by going via HS hub and not directly into a host port
[22:55] <fsphil> the usb speed names are silly
[22:56] <LeoBodnar> the whole of USB is silly
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> good nighz>
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> night!!!
[22:56] <craag> gn Lunar_Lander
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[22:56] <fsphil> nite ll
[22:57] <LeoBodnar> nn
[22:57] <craag> I have seen some gain from using a short usb extension on the fcd
[22:57] <craag> rather than plugging it straight into the laptop
[22:57] <craag> gain = not crashing nearly as much
[22:57] <fsphil> oh, worth a try
[22:58] <craag> wonder if it's anything to do with the minimum capicitance Leo mentioned the other day
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[22:58] <craag> *capacitance
[22:58] <mattbrejza> the fcd will be a 1.1 device not a 1.0 one
[22:59] <mattbrejza> its full? speed rather than low speed
[22:59] <craag> ah ok
[23:02] <fsphil> I can record IQ data at 192khz with arecord just fine
[23:02] Action: fsphil confused
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[23:05] <fsphil> cannot submit urb 0, error -28: not enough bandwidth
[23:06] <fsphil> is it the device itself saying this?
[23:08] <nats`> for what I remember it's the usb stack on the master side
[23:09] <craag> fsphil: What program are you using to talk to it?
[23:09] <craag> gqrx?
[23:09] <fsphil> yea
[23:10] <craag> hmm
[23:10] <fsphil> gqrx just fails to get audio data, with that error in dmesg
[23:10] <fsphil> but I can crab audio from it directly
[23:10] <fsphil> crab?
[23:10] <fsphil> grab
[23:10] <craag> have you tried reflashing the firmware onto it?
[23:10] <fsphil> don't have an older copy
[23:11] <craag> I mean reflashing the latest
[23:11] <fsphil> worth a try
[23:16] <fsphil> nah
[23:16] <craag> :(
[23:16] <craag> tried different computer hardware?
[23:16] <fsphil> yea three difference machines, one of which it used to work on
[23:17] <craag> Sounds like you should send it back
[23:17] <fsphil> loading up the eeepc, it has fedora 16 on it
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[23:27] <fsphil> works fine on eeepc/winxp
[23:27] <fsphil> so physically fine
[23:28] <craag> huh
[23:28] <fsphil> just not happy with linux
[23:37] <fsphil> may do an Upu and sell it
[23:37] <fsphil> not much use to me anymore
[23:38] <craag> what do you use instead?
[23:38] <danielsaul> 2
[23:38] <fsphil> been using the ft817
[23:38] <fsphil> well 857 until that broke
[23:39] <fsphil> technology hates me :
[23:39] <fsphil> :)
[23:39] <craag> I've gone the other way - looking at selling the hard radios as I never use them any more
[23:39] <joeman> Hey Craag :)
[23:40] <joeman> The Spot Messenger worked in the end
[23:40] <joeman> :)
[23:40] <joeman> and it even worked above 6,500 m!
[23:40] <fsphil> I'll sell the 857 too after I get it repaired
[23:40] <craag> rtlsdr lives in the toolkit now and I take the fcdpp when I've got a purpose
[23:40] <craag> joeman: Ah good to hear!
[23:40] <craag> Good pics?
[23:40] <joeman> Thanks for your help and support over the last week
[23:40] <joeman> yes
[23:41] <craag> no problem - well done!
[23:41] <joeman> http://leederville.net/hab/?p=422
[23:42] <craag> ah not recovered yet?
[23:42] <joeman> Went up 28.1km, instead of the predicted 27.2km
[23:42] <joeman> nah
[23:42] <joeman> not yet
[23:42] <joeman> a _long_ way from nowhere
[23:42] <fsphil> yea I've got the rtlsdr and I'd get myself the bladerf for interesting stuff
[23:43] <craag> joeman: Fantastic - I guess out there you don't have to worry about people nicking it in the meantime!
[23:44] <joeman> nope :) Spot Messenger continues to report same location, batteries "Good"
[23:44] <joeman> probably swinging in a tree :)
[23:44] <craag> good stuff
[23:44] <craag> I await more photos after the weekend then!
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[23:53] <joeman> yup@
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[23:56] <fsphil> how where the images downlinked?
[23:56] <joeman> xmodem
[23:57] <Ian_> Now joeman, if you had a regular tracker upon it then Amell would be out on his bike looking for your payload that you felt was "too far off the beaten track" to recover.
[23:57] <joeman> Ian_: Out with the snakes and the wild Kangaroos :)
[23:58] <fsphil> I'm hoping to visit Cairns again sometime
[23:58] <Ian_> Very fast recovery and randsom service from what i have read. . . . Oops, a bit far for Amell then. A lot more understandable now. Just like a big dry North Sea then! :)
[23:59] <joeman> :)
[23:59] <Ian_> Oh, hell, I would volunteer Amell . . . :) :)
[23:59] <fsphil> very odd rain there. it starts really suddenly and a few minute later it stops
[23:59] <Ian_> Best sort I guess. realised that it was raining where it shouldn't.
[00:00] --- Wed Nov 5 2014