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[01:16] <jiffe> b64 might fly too far to the south for me to pick up
[01:17] <arko> you should be able to pick it up right now
[01:19] <jiffe> no m0xer
[01:28] <jiffe> there's one faint transmission I can hear but the kenwood isn't picking it up
[01:29] <jiffe> 144.39 is pretty noisy here though is might be getting stepped on
[01:39] <arko> yeah i had a similar problem
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[01:54] <jiffe> so it looks likt this is its 7th pass?
[01:57] <arko> i think so
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[03:10] <myself> Okay, I'm pretty sure that when I last viewed the tracker, it was still loading, and I went to another tab for a few hours, and came back... http://imgur.com/38v2xhA
[03:10] <myself> it's like that old lines screensaver or something. :)
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[04:49] <Bob_Saget> mine is doing the same thing
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[06:36] <kf7fer> Watching B-64 on aprs.fi I never realized it was so chatty. Is that backlog?
[06:37] <kf7fer> or maybe multiple stations?
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[06:46] <Upu> if its on aprs.fi its all APRS data
[06:47] <kf7fer> I was looking at the raw data and noticed more packets received than the 1x/minute update. Just wondering
[06:47] <Upu> I think it was meant to be ever 5 mins tx but there is an "undocumented feature" that means its every 2 when its not doing 70cms as well
[06:48] <kf7fer> it's very steady at 1/minute right now
[06:48] <Upu> yeah
[06:48] <Upu> undocumented feature
[06:48] <Upu> :)
[06:48] <kf7fer> gotta love that. just watching it tick along... so I guess it's a cool feature
[06:49] <kf7fer> I didn't know that Mexico had such decent APRS coverage
[06:49] <Upu> well its skirted the border nicely
[06:50] <kf7fer> Yes looking at the last 4 days shows most of the receiving stations are in the US
[06:51] <kf7fer> too far for me to hear this time but I guess I should be happy enough getting the packets I did last pass
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[07:32] <jededu> ping upu
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[07:38] <UpuWork> morning jededu
[07:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC7 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC7
[07:39] <jededu> Can you do a flight doc for me in case I decide to launch
[07:40] <UpuWork> soon(tm)
[07:41] <jededu> Ok np ill put it on habhub
[07:42] <Upu> done
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[07:44] <DG9BFC_Sigi> good morning
[07:44] <DG9BFC_Sigi> any new about edupic?
[07:45] <jededu> No it died
[07:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> nothing yet, lets hope the sun defrosts it
[07:46] <jededu> I dont think thats going to happen, I have a feeling it was the RTC/xtal
[07:48] <DG9BFC_Sigi> these flight should have a battery and should also send position over night (lets say every 10 minutes or so to safe capacity)
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[08:24] <fsphil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29758872
[08:24] <fsphil> loran gets an upgrade
[08:28] <UpuWork> what frequency(ies) does it use ?
[08:28] <fsphil> the old loran was just below the LW band, around 100khz
[08:29] <fsphil> the new one is the same I thnk
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[08:30] <craag> accuracy of +-8m apparently
[08:30] <UpuWork> whats it like with altitude ?
[08:30] <fsphil> could be lower power, though not global coverage
[08:30] <UpuWork> altitude
[08:30] <fsphil> probably pretty poor
[08:30] <UpuWork> no I did spell it right
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[08:32] <craag> I doubt it'd work at all
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[08:34] <pd3jag> hallo to all good morning Whats up today and when starts duration test edupic 7 yesterday it was verry good day for us here with edupic 6 .
[08:34] <fsphil> would be an interesting experiment. the frequencies are low enough to be handled by a microcontroller
[08:35] <ulfr> heh
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[08:36] <ulfr> Loran isn't dead, how interesting.
[08:36] Action: ulfr remembers driving through glaciers using loran-c before the gps became available
[08:36] <fsphil> hehe yea, last few stories where all about it being shut down
[08:36] <ulfr> yeah
[08:37] <ulfr> in TF, the longwave radio transmitter uses an old antenna from Loran-C.
[08:37] <ulfr> Which the US army built when they were here.
[08:37] <ulfr> Quite an impressive antenna actually. 475m high iirc.
[08:39] <DG9BFC_Sigi> wow ... antenna half a km high
[08:39] <ulfr> it's still not a 1/4 wave...
[08:41] <DG9BFC_Sigi> here in BREMEN we have a nice mw antenne (or better a nice design cause it is not used anymore
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[08:41] <ulfr> oh wait, it's actually a quarter wave.
[08:41] <ulfr> ish
[08:41] <DG9BFC_Sigi> it is a folded antenna (so a grounded tower can be used
[08:42] <ulfr> cool
[08:42] <ulfr> the tower here is sitting on top of a diamond
[08:42] <ulfr> touching it while in transmit is a bad idea"
[08:43] <ulfr> 300kW transmitter.
[08:43] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and the nice thingy is ... with toploading wires that also act as guy wires you can lower the needed height ... and folding shifts up impedance to 4 times ... the net overall impedance is then 50 ohms
[08:43] <DG9BFC_Sigi> direct coax feed
[08:43] <DG9BFC_Sigi> no tuning partzs
[08:44] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i scaled that to ham bands in mmana
[08:44] <DG9BFC_Sigi> needed height for topband wopuld be only 15m
[08:44] <ulfr> cool
[08:45] <DG9BFC_Sigi> you know that nearly nobody can errect a 40m high vertical for 160
[08:45] <DG9BFC_Sigi> but a 15m high radiator??? with guy wires??? yes that can be solved even in a small garden :-)
[08:46] <ulfr> well
[08:46] <ulfr> I know a few hams who have done that.
[08:46] <ulfr> also rhombas
[08:46] <ulfr> they're quite interesting.
[08:47] <DG9BFC_Sigi> http://www.waniewski.de/
[08:48] <DG9BFC_Sigi> there is original "stolen" from
[08:48] <DG9BFC_Sigi> http://www.waniewski.de/MW/Bremen/index.htm
[08:48] <DG9BFC_Sigi> http://www.waniewski.de/MW/Bremen/bremen_mw_1en.htm
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[08:49] <ok1cdj> gm
[08:49] <DG9BFC_Sigi> for ham use you can make it much smaller
[08:51] <ok1cdj> 36" Foil baloon with Picotracker: Saturday 11/1 at 12:00 UTC if weather permit 434.690 +/- drift RTTY 300/7/2 Continous TX, every 20 RTTY packets human readable message in CW 20 WPM:
[08:51] <cm13g09> For any Ubuntu users that have just installed the gnome-calculator update - I apologise for any bugs - it appears to be my package :P
[08:51] <ok1cdj> Call NR. Time Loc ASL example: OK1CDJ 125 2345 JO70VA01 3327
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[08:52] <gonzo_> not sure I'd consider morse at 20wpm, human readable!
[08:53] <DG9BFC_Sigi> why locator and not coordinates sent??
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[08:55] <ok1cdj> because coordinates are very long... and locator easy to read in cw :-)
[08:57] <ok1cdj> i wold like to have cw message as short as possible...
[08:57] <pd3jag> rtty ??? ..../300 7 n 2 baudrate???/ shift [please ok1cdj .
[08:58] <ok1cdj> 434.69MHz USB RTTY 300 baud 450Hz shift ASCII-7 no parity 2 stop bits
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[09:00] <pd3jag> okee ONDREJ tnx info and are that your setup of eme ant in qrz ???
[09:01] <DG9BFC_Sigi> but in rtty you send coordinates i guess
[09:02] <ok1cdj> pd3jag, sorry i have not this ant anymore...
[09:02] <Maxell> cm13g09: should I wait upgrading that package? :)
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[09:02] <ok1cdj> yes, rtty is standard UKHAS format..
[09:03] <cm13g09> Maxell: No, check the change ;)
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[09:09] <gonzo_> it may be possible to increase the amounbt of info in morse, by adding some new characters a bit like numbers, but use all the combinations. Say a 4 element character, giving 16 combinations. You could even run two of them together
[09:10] <daveake> Sounds like you might want to automate the decoding of that
[09:10] <gonzo_> you could change the dits and dahs, for njust dits and the absence of dits.
[09:11] <gonzo_> you would need some sort of timing indications though for an automated system dave
[09:11] <daveake> you would indeed
[09:11] <gonzo_> but then you would not have to have hige inter character gaps
[09:11] <daveake> maybe a 9th' dit
[09:11] <gonzo_> huge
[09:12] <gonzo_> yep, and no dit at the start, so a dit gapo
[09:13] <jcoxon> i think i read about something like this once
[09:13] <daveake> and if it's automated, you could use shorter dits
[09:13] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:13] <DG9BFC_Sigi> when does soft know if an ansent dit is a receiving fault (absence of signal) or a start or stop bit .... or data
[09:14] <DG9BFC_Sigi> absent ditr
[09:14] <DG9BFC_Sigi> what you could do is you could use a permanent didt stream ... with shorter and longer pauses like it is done in dcf77 coding (and several other clock transmitters)
[09:15] <daveake> good point. You could perhaps use a dit of a different tone
[09:15] <DG9BFC_Sigi> dit with different tone ... then you would have rtty :)
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[09:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> no cw can use very narrow filter ... not use a different tone
[09:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> but ... thie idea with shorter and longer pulses (like the clock transmitters) ... yeah that would work
[09:17] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and cause you have a constant stream of pulses the soft easy can decide what is an error
[09:18] <DG9BFC_Sigi> ever heard of CCW (coherent cw)
[09:18] <gonzo_> hmmm, it does sound a bit like rtty. Though it will never catch on
[09:18] <Maxell> cm13g09: hmm doen't look to be in the list updateable packages... intresting
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[09:18] <DG9BFC_Sigi> that is cw ... but wit precise timing
[09:19] <gonzo_> actually, we playes with a multi freq CW for EME. It used equal lengyj pulses for dit and dah, but different frequencies. And a third tone for space
[09:19] <gonzo_> was designed for reading off waterfall
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[09:20] <gonzo_> you can use narrow filters on multi tones, you just need more of them
[09:24] <cm13g09> Maxell: if you're running Trusty
[09:24] <cm13g09> it'll be there
[09:24] <cm13g09> Utopic, it won't
[09:28] <jededu> 04EDUPIC7 is up 434.650, 100, 8n2
[09:30] <Maxell> jededu: ack
[09:30] <jededu> Maxell ack?
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[09:31] <Maxell> acknowledge
[09:31] <jededu> Ahh :)
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[09:31] <jededu> Maxel where abouts are you
[09:32] <jededu> Maxell
[09:34] <jededu> UK?
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[09:41] <jcoxon> B-64 has entered into the Gulf of Mexico
[09:42] <UpuWork> can see it jededu just weak
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[09:43] <jededu> Still low
[09:43] <jededu> Signal is good
[09:43] <jcoxon> wow has spacenear.us flyb.php gone crazy for other people?
[09:44] <UpuWork> lol
[09:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Oh yes it is rather diferent isn't it!
[09:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Oh its in the Gulf of M. must have speeded up a bit then!
[09:45] <fsphil> whoa
[09:46] <jcoxon> its rather beautiful
[09:46] <fsphil> looks like the order it's reading from the database is wrong
[09:46] <fsphil> any changes made there?
[09:47] <UpuWork> use http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/?filter=B-64
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[09:49] <jcoxon> now that B-64 is in the lower latitudes it'll be an interesting trip (i hope it stays in that zone)
[09:50] <fsphil> although it'll make it really difficult to track it, I'd love it to cross the equator
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> Did somebody say that if balloons go too north they get trapped in polar vortex forever?
[09:56] <jcoxon> i might have suggested that once
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> I think it was Fosset's chum
[09:57] <jcoxon> (that said it was in the context of wanting to get trapped in the polar vortex)
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[09:57] <LeoBodnar> Per Lindstrom i think
[09:58] <jcoxon> i think the phrase is winter sun
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[10:00] <MaXimaN> I think it's perfectly reasonable tha B-64 is visiting South America. Even balloons need vacations.
[10:00] <NickB_> Did something devide by zero on the B tracker?
[10:01] <MaXimaN> Although it appears to have visited Texas for steak.
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> M0XER-4>APRS64,FUNSUN,WIDE2*,qAR
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> i wonder if KT5TK can hear it
[10:06] <gonzo_> what happened to EDIPIC6 yesterday? Just seems to have died?
[10:06] <MaXimaN> More drone fun http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29844962
[10:06] <jededu> gonzo I think RTC
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[10:12] <db_g6gzh> top tip - plugging correct antenna in helps HAB reception
[10:12] Action: db_g6gzh goes for more coffee
[10:14] <LazyLeopard> db_g6gzh: Heh! Plugging any antenna in beats forgetting to plug one in at all. ;)
[10:15] <db_g6gzh> 8-) except that with no antenna I might have noticed lack of noise and realised sooner
[10:16] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[10:16] <LazyLeopard> True...
[10:17] <NickB_> anyone else having troubles with the B tracker? http://spacenear.us/tracker/flyb.php
[10:17] <UpuWork> Yes don't use that page
[10:17] <UpuWork> use http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/?filter=B-64
[10:17] <LazyLeopard> I have, in the past, discovered that the 12 metres hexbeam works quite well for receiving 2 metres FM. For transmitting, however...
[10:18] <NickB_> ok thanks!
[10:22] <es5nhc> I was able to hear that Latvian balloon whose recovery required alpinist skills with 2m yagi although signal was on 70 cm
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[10:22] <ulfr> Did it get stuck on a cliff?
[10:23] <es5nhc> ulfr - a tree in a forest
[10:24] <es5nhc> Speaking of LAASE3
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[10:34] <PE1ANS> payload edupic7 ??
[10:36] <jededu> !payload EDUPIC7
[10:36] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPIC7 10(464d) 03$$EDUPIC7 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.65 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/400Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[10:37] <PE1ANS> thanks
[10:37] <jededu> np
[10:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial edupic7
[10:45] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): 03434.6486 MHz, 434.65 MHz
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[10:52] <Lunar_LanderU> hi
[10:53] <UpuWork> morning Lunar
[10:53] <daveake> when's the next lunar launch?
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[10:55] <Lunar_LanderU> hopefully before xmas
[10:56] <Lunar_LanderU> preperations running high
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[11:00] Nick change: day- -> day
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[11:08] <UpuWork> ping jededu
[11:09] <UpuWork> dunno if you have a code issue but last two strings missed a character off the end
[11:09] <UpuWork> $$EDUPIC7,48,11:06:44,5315.80868,-00035.55189,08,5526.7,0,0,8.5,1.44*B3A
[11:09] <UpuWork> done it a few times
[11:09] <DG9BFC_Sigi> something wrong with the clock on b64??
[11:09] <UpuWork> date ?
[11:10] <DG9BFC_Sigi> time
[11:10] <UpuWork> where are you seeing an issue ? APRS ?
[11:11] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i see the page on mobile tracker ... shoes 1138 utc but it is 1108 utc
[11:11] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Sigi :)
[11:11] <DG9BFC_Sigi> shws
[11:11] <Lunar_LanderU> everything good?
[11:11] <DG9BFC_Sigi> yes ...??????
[11:12] <DG9BFC_Sigi> aeahem ...
[11:12] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[11:12] <DG9BFC_Sigi> who are u
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> kevin, the guy from osnabrück, who landed a balloon in the Weser
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> that was March 5, 2013
[11:13] <DG9BFC_Sigi> ohhh i remember well
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:13] <craag> too long ago Lunar_LanderU !
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:13] <craag> Time to land another one in there!
[11:13] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[11:13] <DG9BFC_Sigi> yes .. we still wait for youe next
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> it is coming soon
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> still before christmas I hope
[11:14] <DG9BFC_Sigi> ????
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah, we are working on the second flight right now
[11:14] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we need info for adding a bridge to our predictor
[11:14] <Lunar_LanderU> ah I will let you know the details
[11:15] <Lunar_LanderU> we still don't know the payload mass so we didn't select a balloon and max. altitude and so on yet
[11:18] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we need just height and position ... and prediction for that day (wind speeds) ... then we do a prediction live ... THAT is exact to a few feet
[11:18] <DG9BFC_Sigi> lost your email adress i guess
[11:20] <DG9BFC_Sigi> can you give it to me or drop me a short mail?
[11:21] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[11:21] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[11:21] <DG9BFC_Sigi> ah i found it
[11:21] <Lunar_LanderU> ah good
[11:22] <Lunar_LanderU> sorry was soldering
[11:22] <DG9BFC_Sigi> is it still name at uni osna
[11:22] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[11:22] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks for the help :) my colleagues just asked if I also want to go to lunch
[11:22] <Lunar_LanderU> so I will be back at about 1 pm
[11:23] <DG9BFC_Sigi> sure i will help you again!! or better say WE will help
[11:23] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
[11:23] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we made lots of progress with our live predictor
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[11:23] <Lunar_LanderU> that sounds good
[11:24] <Lunar_LanderU> so I say be back later :)
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[11:25] <DG9BFC_Sigi> now it can calculate the landing spot to a few feet ... right after burst it calculates the quality of parachute (tangled or not ... ballon rests or not etc.) and the streches or compresses the predicted course
[11:25] <DG9BFC_Sigi> yepp more detailös on that later
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[11:33] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: do weather sondes use open standard protokolls?
[11:33] <day> protocols*
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[11:35] <PE2BZ> !payload edupic7
[11:35] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Payload 03EDUPIC7 10(464d) 03$$EDUPIC7 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.65 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/400Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[11:57] <DG9BFC_Sigi> @ day ... we use sondemonitor for decoding them
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[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> receiver used is an rtl stick (on my friends side) or here i use the fcdpp
[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> audio is routed from sdr soft to sondemonitor
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[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> sm does the decoding
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[12:01] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we then take the prediction for that day and time from noaa ... and our tool does the rest
[12:02] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: i will give that a try. :>. Yesterday i figured out that im living where it literally rains weather sondes :>
[12:02] <DG9BFC_Sigi> wher do ypou live?
[12:03] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: germany. Apparently the sondes that are being started around essen tend to often drop around my area
[12:03] <DG9BFC_Sigi> drop me a mail to callsign at freenet dot de ... and i will help you with starting of sondehunting
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> WHERE?????
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i also have some essen sondes!!
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and norderney, bergen, meppen
[12:05] <DG9BFC_Sigi> plus a few de bilt (ozone sondes)
[12:05] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and one schleswig
[12:05] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: around münster
[12:05] <DG9BFC_Sigi> 50km south of bremen
[12:06] <DG9BFC_Sigi> drop me a mail!!!!
[12:07] <DG9BFC_Sigi> nera münster??? de bilt ozone several times landed close to münster ...
[12:07] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and essen also
[12:08] HB9RSU (~nothing@92-32-149-5.dyn.cable.fcom.ch) left irc:
[12:09] <DG9BFC_Sigi> but here where i live we have 4 stations close (essen meppen, bergen, norderney plus de bilt once a week) ... so nearly every day something to track in the air
[12:10] <day> what exactly is an rtl stick? I only know the wlan rtl chipset, but i doubt you are using one of those :D
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[12:11] <Lunar_LanderU> back from lunch
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[12:13] <day> J0Š
[12:15] <DG9BFC_Sigi> rtl stick ... is a usb dvbt dongle ... normally used to watch tv on a laptop ... but with a different driver can be made to a wideband receiver (sdr)
[12:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> can receive from 24megs up to 1.7 gig (with no gap)
[12:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> all modes ... ssb, fm, cw (as you know all is software9
[12:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and does only costs aroun 10-12 euro
[12:17] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: that sounds nice :o do you have a tutorial at hand how to modify it?
[12:17] <DG9BFC_Sigi> supercheap wideband receiver
[12:17] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[12:17] <DG9BFC_Sigi> yepp ... DROP ME A MAIL!!!
[12:17] <mattbrejza> !wiki sdr
[12:17] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Wiki page 03sdr_tracker (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[12:18] <mattbrejza> yay it worked for once
[12:18] <mfa298> day: for general stuff on how to use the cheap tv dongles (needs the right chipset) search google for "rtl-sdr" there should be lots of useful information
[12:21] <DG9BFC_Sigi> http://www.rtl-sdr.com/
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[12:29] <DG9BFC_Sigi> http://www.rtl-sdr.com/receiving-weather-balloon-data-with-rtl-sdr/
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[12:35] <Maxell> wow edupic already coming in $$4†UXÉC6,3,12:73:56,53´35w10,00024.8874,0,481n2¬,0,10,.43*EBB
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[12:45] <jededu> pong upu
[12:46] <DG9BFC_Sigi> maxell ... wher??
[12:46] <mattbrejza> ping edupic7
[12:46] <mattbrejza> !ping edupic7
[12:46] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Last contact with 03EDUPIC7 was 033 minutes ago
[12:46] <mattbrejza> !whereis edupic7
[12:46] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: 03EDUPIC7 is over 03North Sea 10(53.77309,0.57096) at 036472 meters
[12:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03G6GZH_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=G6GZH_chase
[12:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03G6GZH/M_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=G6GZH%2FM_chase
[12:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03G6GZH-M_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=G6GZH-M_chase
[12:54] <Maxell> DG9BFC_Sigi: The Hague
[12:56] <Maxell> -0.2038 below horizon
[12:56] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC7,91,12»53:54,5347.88460,0003.16938,8¶,220¸.00,=.—4lÓ2;*4E48
[12:57] <jededu> Maxell cool
[12:57] <jededu> Good signal
[12:57] <Maxell> Nice tropo duct
[12:58] <Maxell> above sea :D
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[13:19] <DutchMillbt> !dial EDUPIC7
[13:19] <SpacenearUS> 03DutchMillbt: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): 03434.448829 MHz, 434.64958 MHz, 434.64894 MHz, 434.6486 MHz
[13:21] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: 434.649 audio @ 1380
[13:22] <Maxell> Shift ~395 Hz
[13:22] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: latest partial: $$ ÅDWPHC7,<98>2,f<9d>24,53³<9c>6<000Í<97>73612<06,6492.°,0,0,4.25,1.4:2³;¼2Ñ HC7,<98>:,03:21:20,53=3>33486,0001<97>?±6<99>,06,6482.5,0,0,4.05,<97><.2=7F
[13:22] <DutchMillbt> Oke thankz Maxell,
[13:24] <DutchMillbt> telemetry same recipe as yesterday I asume?
[13:25] <jededu> Correct
[13:25] <jededu> !payload EDUPIC7
[13:25] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03EDUPIC7 10(464d) 03$$EDUPIC7 - 03RTTY Only - 03434.65 MHz USB 03RTTY 100/400Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[13:27] <DutchMillbt> afternoon jededu ... what happened yesterday with number 6?
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[13:28] <jededu> the RTC/xtal combination failed i think its never been tested at that temp
[13:32] <DutchMillbt> yesterday I drove around in the area Noth of Den Haag .... but no signal at all... so number 6 went (silent) towards south germany :-(
[13:34] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC7,107,13:33:54,5355.69089,00108.16936,06¬6523.0,0,0,8.?5,1.43*9759 <-- better
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[13:37] <DutchMillbt> Yep tropo is our friend at the moment
[13:37] <jededu> I thought we lost it on the coast
[13:39] <DutchMillbt> PD3JAG morgen 12.00uur HABtracker meet & greet Apeldoorn
[13:39] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC7,109,13:38:54,5356.58376,00111.22971,08,6498.6,0,0,7.25,1.42*303E <- green
[13:40] <PE2BZ> !dial edupic7
[13:40] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): 03434.64958 MHz, 434.448829 MHz, 434.649 MHz, 434.64894 MHz, 434.6486 MHz
[13:41] <db_g6gzh> sorry about the _chase clutter. I didn't realise that dl-fldigi + GPS appeared like that rather than a (moving) tower
[13:41] <DutchMillbt> PE2BZ ben je morgen in Apledoorn?
[13:42] <DutchMillbt> Apeldoorn :-)
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[13:46] <pd3jag> verb was ff weg hier gaan er veel morgen naar de meet and greet v HAB dutchmillbt zover je weet??
[13:50] <DutchMillbt> pd3jag... nog niet bekend idee kwam gisteren spontaan boven water met PH3HV ... stuur straks een paar mails ...wie weet
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[13:52] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: #UKHASnet balloon flight tmw 01/11/14 1100ish from Cambridge, repeater on 868mhz. http://t.co/0BiFppPUcP #ukhas
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[13:55] <PD3JAG> slechte verb met de chat box pfff .
[13:57] <PD3JAG> jij al wat gehoord Rene PH3V???
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[13:58] <DutchMillbt> Ja die komt
[13:59] <DutchMillbt> PE2BZ. qrz?
[13:59] <PD3JAG> JA RENE komt idd vroeg het gister ook aan my , maar kan helaas niet met hem mee.
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[14:02] <DutchMillbt> PD3JAG ... oke jammer Jan wie weet volgende keer
[14:04] <PD3JAG> ja hoop het idd dutchmillbt , zou leuk zijn toch.
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[14:20] <DG9BFC_Sigi> :-(
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[14:54] <DG9BFC_Sigi> lunar lander back from meal??
[14:55] <DG9BFC_Sigi> day .. if you want info about tracking sondes ... just ask ... i will help you
[14:56] <Maxell> F5APQ is also doing some nice dx
[15:08] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: oh i wasnt on the whole time >irc bouncer. But as a matter of fact im grinding through the web atm :D Do you happen to know if this one works? TrekStor DVB-T Stick Terres 2.0
[15:08] <DutchMillbt> Yes he does , tropo at the moment so that's nice ... can work a few UK repeaters at the moment 433.225 and 433.350 MHz
[15:09] <day> it seems to use the elonics e4000 demodulator and a rtl2832U chipset
[15:09] <lz1dev> !whereis b-64
[15:09] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03B-64 is over 03Gulf Of Mexico 10(27.2213,-94.7619) at 0313037 meters
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[15:14] <DutchMillbt> Maxell zet even je email adres in een prvmsg
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[15:27] <navrac_work> DutchMillbt 433.350 - GB3YL by any chance? thats my local repeater
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[15:32] <DutchMillbt> Yep navrac_work 1/4 gpa 5 watt
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[15:35] <navrac_work> Earlier in the week ~I got on some french and german repeaters - its been quite good for a time. - Can you hear the GB3VHF beacon on 2m? 144.430 JT65 - its quite handy for a frequency reference
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[15:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03tcinxd_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=tcinxd_chase
[15:47] <jededu> I need ti get the EDUPIC's higher up
[15:50] <mattbrejza> get yourself some food packaging film and a heatsealer :)
[15:52] <DG9BFC_Sigi> dont know if trekstor stick will work
[15:52] <DG9BFC_Sigi> depends on whats inside
[15:52] <jededu> It is very sealed conforming spray and sealed with tape
[15:53] <mattbrejza> oh you are making these yourself?
[15:53] <jededu> Yes
[15:53] <mattbrejza> ah cool
[15:53] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: toppie
[15:53] <DG9BFC_Sigi> use more balloons
[15:53] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: ukhas mailing list?
[15:54] <jededu> Yes two 36" next time
[15:54] <mattbrejza> leos ones were quite a bit bigger to get over 10km
[15:54] <DG9BFC_Sigi> could you send me some background info??
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[16:17] <day> it looks like pretty much every dvb-t receiver uses different tuners depending on the revision...one that works, one that doesnt T_T"
[16:20] <Lunar_LanderU> DG9BFC_Sigi, yea I'm still here
[16:20] <Lunar_LanderU> just reading your e-mail
[16:21] <Lunar_LanderU> sounds really cool
[16:25] <DG9BFC_Sigi> at days ... go in evilbay and look for rtl2832u + r820t
[16:26] <PE2BZ> !dial edupic7
[16:26] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): 03434.49 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.6486 MHz
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[16:27] <day> DG9BFC_Sigi: finding one in china is simple. But that equals a month of waiting time :(
[16:30] <lz1dev> !hysplit run edupic7
[16:30] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[16:34] <PE2BZ> jededu : Hi, Is edupic7 battery or solar powered ?
[16:41] <Lunar_LanderU> see you all later!
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[17:10] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
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[17:18] <peterbjornx> is there a reason why the pcb silkscreen instructions dont match the habamp docs
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[17:20] <edmoore> repeat orders
[17:20] <edmoore> to promote reverse engineering
[17:21] <edmoore> to confuse those sly ruskies
[17:22] <jededu> PE2BZ its a single AA Lithium
[17:22] <edmoore> to cause an existential crisis in the recipient, thus picking off the weak
[17:23] <edmoore> or option 5) I don;t know
[17:23] <jededu> Sorry AAA
[17:24] <peterbjornx> ping upu
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[17:25] <edmoore> upu might be a better source of information than me, yes
[17:25] <edmoore> it's borderline
[17:25] <edmoore> but i reckon that's a good call
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[17:27] <ok1cdj> ge
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[17:31] <Upu> hi peterbjornx
[17:31] <Upu> how do you mean ?
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[17:31] <Upu> will answer shortly just jumping in shower
[17:32] <edmoore> standing still is just as effective for washing
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[17:38] Nick change: myself -> Myself
[17:38] <daveake> maybe he needs the exercise
[17:39] <x-f> :|
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[17:46] <peterbjornx> well f***
[17:47] <peterbjornx> i did as the docs said and blew the regulator
[17:47] <peterbjornx> connected 5V to the jack ( from my usb port ) and placed jumper 2 (the middle one
[17:48] <peterbjornx> i literally blew it (it exploded in a puff of smoke)
[17:49] <edmoore> option 1)
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[17:50] <Upu> ah
[17:50] <Upu> hmm
[17:50] <Upu> ok thats not suppose to happen
[17:50] <Upu> can you take a picture of it with the jumpers in the position they are in now ?
[17:50] <Upu> open a window
[17:50] <Upu> they really stink when they go
[17:51] <peterbjornx> yup, they do
[17:51] <Myself> puff the magic smoke chip, lived by the PCB
[17:51] <ulfr> hm..
[17:51] <ulfr> magic smoke fugitives?
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[17:55] <peterbjornx> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3xVy3eW5pM8SWlFWGxWdm02NHc/view?usp=sharing
[17:56] <Matt____> In the UK can I have a payload on a balloon with a FPV camera downlink?
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[17:56] <Matt____> On
[17:56] <edmoore> if you can fit it within the power and bandwidth limits
[17:56] <Matt____> On 5.8 GHz
[17:56] <edmoore> set out in ir2030, a document from ofcom
[17:56] <Upu> just checking peterbjornx
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[17:57] <fsphil> you'll need a very large ground antenna for ghz video
[17:58] <Matt____> But 900Mhz isn't that great for distance
[17:58] <ulfr> Somehow satellites work.
[17:59] <fsphil> satellites have more power
[17:59] <day> are the mini dvb-t antennas enough to receive weathersonde data properly?
[17:59] <fsphil> and high gain antennas
[17:59] <ulfr> No
[17:59] <day> what do i need?
[17:59] <ulfr> more power, yes, but not higher gain antennas.
[17:59] <fsphil> higher gain than a moving hab would have
[17:59] <Matt____> I was looking at this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KZyoMp3u0. Not a huge antenna
[18:00] <ulfr> But they're also further away from ground than baloons
[18:00] <edmoore> they still tend to have more power/bandwidth
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> 900 mHz is an insult
[18:00] <ulfr> edmoore: of course.
[18:01] <ulfr> But power falls quite rapidly.
[18:01] <edmoore> ok we're having an adjective fail here
[18:01] <edmoore> this is a stupid and pointless conversation
[18:01] <edmoore> work out the link budget, get a number for the margin in dB
[18:01] <edmoore> the end
[18:02] <ulfr> Higher frequency gives options for higher gain antennas with smaller footprint.
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVraKciwzwQ subwoofer test
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> By Antares.
[18:02] <ulfr> heh
[18:03] <Matt____> Also, found this http://youtu.be/rpBnurznFio?t=6s - it's an FPV glider attached to a balloon
[18:04] <ulfr> SpeedEvil: woah
[18:04] <ulfr> that gives more interesting perspective..
[18:04] <ulfr> Matt____: yes, it's pretty cool.
[18:04] <edmoore> Matt____, it's not really a question of what you can find or can't as videos on the internet, it's about what you're allowed to do by your local legislation
[18:04] <ulfr> But it's impossible, and expensive, so I wouldn't bother about it.
[18:04] <edmoore> it's going to be hard to do in the UK
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[18:05] <Matt____> yh, it just looked cool, I'm aware we have strict laws over here.
[18:05] <ulfr> Do the launch from Iceland. ;)
[18:06] <edmoore> there are limits imposed on power and bandwidth, there is no substitute but to calculate if it's possible with a proposed system
[18:06] <ulfr> yeah
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[18:06] <ulfr> But alot of interesting stuff is invented that way.
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[18:07] <ulfr> Just if you look at how effecient telecommunications are today, bw vise
[18:07] <edmoore> i don't like saying it's impossible, but it's probably quite hard to do reasonably in the UK
[18:07] <edmoore> you might have access to someone's 20m radio dish
[18:07] <Matt____> yh, I got a radio licence the other day (M6IAU) We can only use 10 Watts of power on most frequencies at max
[18:07] <ulfr> I don't think it takes that, even.
[18:07] <edmoore> in which case you have options most people don;t
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> Matt____: not airborne though
[18:07] <edmoore> Matt____, and that's on the ground
[18:07] <ulfr> a prime focus disc with "seek and lock in" feature.
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[18:07] <edmoore> you can't use your license at all in the air
[18:08] <Matt____> yh, there's so much legislation over here... :/
[18:08] <ulfr> Has there been done any effort in changing that
[18:08] <ulfr> ?
[18:08] <edmoore> yes
[18:09] <ulfr> :/
[18:09] <ulfr> It's such a shame.
[18:09] <ulfr> as the HAB community is very active in uk
[18:09] <edmoore> i've basically given up though
[18:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSY - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PYSY
[18:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSYchase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=PYSYchase
[18:09] <edmoore> trying to do things as a radio amateur is hard
[18:09] <edmoore> easier to be a radio professional
[18:09] <ulfr> I know that feeling.
[18:09] <edmoore> many more options for getting stuff done
[18:10] <ulfr> I'm a ham but my profession is telecommunication systems and antenna systems.
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[18:10] <ulfr> It's very funny to see the difference when dealing with autorities.
[18:11] <Matt____> Also, can this be used commercially, e.g. someone pays us to send it up or is that illegal to...
[18:11] <edmoore> yeah
[18:11] <edmoore> Matt____, yes you can launch a hab commercially
[18:11] <ulfr> Matt____: if you apply for a lease frequency
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[18:11] <ulfr> you can even do so "temporarily"
[18:11] <ulfr> I'm not sure how it works in the uk
[18:11] <Matt____> ulfr, I mean launching in general, not FPV
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[18:12] <Matt____> Thanks edmoore
[18:12] <edmoore> gtg
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[18:12] <ulfr> Off he went.
[18:13] <ulfr> Matt____: I saw that fpv video some time ago and was very impressed by the glider, I'm working on a "similar" project but on a bit larger scale.
[18:14] <Matt____> What do you mean by larger scale? Sound fun
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[18:16] <ulfr> Matt____: I pm'ed you. :>
[18:20] <tweetBot> @daveake: Commercial video of the Superman flight https://t.co/YSBG6sBkMo #UKHAS #RaspberryPi
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[18:43] <ok1cdj> hi
[18:43] <ulfr> http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/local/story/d/story/spaceshiptwo-crashes-shortly-after-mojave-test-fli/11401/64VdLqg21EWpK1vuptvTsg
[18:43] <fsphil> evening
[18:43] <ulfr> Bad week for space flying?
[18:43] <fsphil> oh no
[18:43] <fsphil> hadn't hear about that one
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[18:43] <ulfr> I just did, like 15s ago.
[18:44] <ulfr> D:
[18:45] <ok1cdj> does anyone have picture how safely close 36" qualatex balloon ?
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[18:52] <mclane_> ...also how are you measuring the neck lift of a qualatex balloon? (just some grams?)
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[18:58] <day> how would a baofeng uv-5r perform vs a dvb-t stick @402Mhz transmission reception?
[18:59] <ulfr> Good question.
[18:59] <day> i probably forgot half the important points tho :p
[18:59] <ulfr> s/n ratio and rx sensitivity?
[18:59] <ulfr> or well
[19:00] <ulfr> the latter
[19:00] <fsphil> I've used both, they work
[19:00] <day> well baud rate etc..
[19:00] <day> i dont know how well a microphone inport performs
[19:00] <ulfr> peaks at 25kHz/2*
[19:00] <ulfr> -*
[19:00] <ulfr> :D
[19:00] Action: ulfr is useless
[19:01] <ulfr> you know the baofeng can be changed to somewhat sdrs
[19:01] <ulfr> with some hacking
[19:01] <ulfr> haven't given it a try, but a ham "friend" has and he uses it for something. Not sure what.
[19:01] <day> also this statement makes me wonder, what equipment do i need to do it properly? :/ WARNING : It is unlikely you will be able to use these devices for tracking a real flight unless you have a very good antenna. However for bench testing payloads they are more than adequate.
[19:01] <day> source: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[19:03] <fsphil> the provided antenna is mostly useless
[19:03] <fsphil> even for TV
[19:03] <ulfr> and probably also refering to that it's LOS
[19:03] <fsphil> unless you live near the transmitter
[19:03] <fsphil> with a half decent antenna it'll work fine
[19:03] <day> yes my 'idea' was that i need a 402Mhz antenna. those seem to be hard to come by
[19:04] <day> 433Mhz are available everywhere
[19:04] <fsphil> 70cm antenna will be fine
[19:04] <fsphil> it's all I've used
[19:04] <ulfr> hm
[19:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> !hysplit edupic7
[19:04] <SpacenearUS> 03SA6BSS-Mike: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[19:04] <ulfr> What bw does a 1/4 lambda 70cm antenna have?
[19:04] <ulfr> That's a question I should be asking myself perhaps.
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[19:06] <day> the antenna length is wavelength dictated because you want to use the reflection at the end to create constructive interference?
[19:08] <day> at least thats what i always thought :X
[19:08] <ulfr> I'm sorry, I didn't understand that?
[19:08] <ulfr> You mean the ends are the thing that matters, or?
[19:08] Action: ulfr no speak english native.
[19:08] <day> why does an antenna needs to be a multiple of lambda?
[19:09] <ulfr> Because voltage and current are out of phase.
[19:09] <ulfr> And you want to get the signal while the current is at maximum while voltage is at minimum
[19:09] <day> that has nothing to do with the reflection at the antenna end?
[19:09] <ulfr> If I understand you correctly, no.
[19:10] <ulfr> The ends start to be part of the equation when the dipole is too small for the signal
[19:10] <day> urg. that means i have no idea what is going on >X
[19:10] <ulfr> Well.
[19:10] <ulfr> You're not alone.
[19:10] <ulfr> This is a bit hard to get your head around, and even harder to explain when you have a sort-of image of what it is.
[19:11] <day> i thought you create a standing wave within the antenna, that gets amplified by the reflected signal at the end
[19:12] <ulfr> I don't think that it happens that way.
[19:12] <day> ah well it looks like a standing wave is exactly what you dont want :P
[19:13] <ulfr> No no
[19:13] <ulfr> You *need* a standing wave.
[19:13] <ulfr> but it's just supposed to be on the antenna
[19:13] <ulfr> it causes electrons to pop "off" the wire
[19:13] <ulfr> or rather, go to a higher energy state, releasing electromagnetic waves
[19:14] <ulfr> a standing wave on the feeder is bad".
[19:14] <day> but how do you prevend a standing wave on the feeder, but try to get one in the antenna?
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[19:16] <ulfr> if the impedance is 50ohm, then the standing wave should only exist on the antenna due to the fact that it's "radiating"
[19:17] <ulfr> Energy must go somewhere, and it always picks the easiest way.
[19:17] <ulfr> If it can be emitted via radiation from antenna, it'll go that way.
[19:17] <ulfr> If that's too hard (wrong impedance of antenna) it tries to go through the feeder
[19:17] <ulfr> sort of
[19:17] <ulfr> Look at two resistors in paralel
[19:17] <ulfr> one is 1ohm the other is 100ohm
[19:18] <ulfr> Which one will take more current?
[19:18] <ulfr> in feeders/antennas you're looking at the same thing.
[19:18] <ulfr> Just that, everything is 50ohm, sort of...
[19:19] <day> well the feeder has 50Ohm Wave impedance as well. What seperates the antenna from the feeder? Well the antenna is not shielded. Does the shield actually restrain the power in the cable?
[19:19] <ulfr> No
[19:19] <ulfr> Because it has easier path of releasing energy
[19:19] <ulfr> sort of.
[19:19] <day> that might sound stupid, but why?
[19:19] <day> all the 'electrons see' is a long line with an end :/
[19:20] <ulfr> Yes.
[19:20] <day> theres no seperation between the feeder and the antenna
[19:20] <ulfr> Yes there is.
[19:20] <ulfr> Wavelength.
[19:20] <day> but the second theres a seperation, there will be reflection :/
[19:22] <ulfr> It is sort of like jumping on a trampoline.
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[19:23] <ulfr> if you jump in a specific phase along with another, you're powers will add up, if you jump at the exact opposit time, it'll cancel it self out, if you jump at different timing, it causes disturbance and you might fall
[19:24] <day> ulfr: yes thats what constructive/destructive interferences are
[19:24] <ulfr> if that makes any sense
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[19:24] <ulfr> hm
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[19:25] <ulfr> Then I might have misunderstood you at the beginnig ( as I pointed out..)
[19:25] <ulfr> But it's a bit more complicated than that
[19:25] <ulfr> tl;dr electromagnetic waves are plain out weird.
[19:25] <ulfr> everytime I understand something more or learn more about it I get amazed how weird this stuff is
[19:25] <day> well my initial explaination is flawd because i dont understand why the feeder doesnt become part of the antenna :/
[19:26] <ulfr> If the antenna is in "balance" it releases the energy as electromagentic waves
[19:26] <day> but that would imply its wave impedance is lower than the feeders, which it isnt
[19:27] <day> at least thats how i would interprete it :/
[19:27] <ulfr> technically, I think impedances in antennas varies alot.
[19:27] <mfa298> day: (not read all the scroll back) but with some badly designed antennas the feeder can become part of the antenna which can lead to bad things happening.
[19:28] <ulfr> yeah
[19:28] <day> what happens if i cut off a bit of the antenna end? will the maximum move towards the feeder?
[19:28] <ulfr> mfa298: and sometimes that's desired effect
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[19:28] <day> mfa298: i see, then i get it
[19:28] <ulfr> like with leaky coax
[19:28] <ulfr> if there's a standing wave on the coax it starts to radiate and burn heat
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[19:28] <day> so the tip reflection is THE important part of any antenna?
[19:28] <ulfr> I've seen melted RG214 after anntenna failure
[19:29] <mfa298> I'd probably go with leaky coax being a special case. Most of the time having the antenna radiate means someone didn't understand how antennas work (or they're trying to make a fast buck from people that don't know any better)
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[19:29] <ulfr> mfa298: tunnels, indoor buildings etc
[19:29] <mfa298> change that antenna to feeder above ...
[19:30] <ulfr> understood.
[19:30] <mfa298> ulfr: I'm well aware of leaky feeder for wifi - I'm a network admin / sysadmin type person.
[19:30] <mfa298> wifi / wifi and similar things.
[19:30] <ulfr> yeah, just to clarify that there are cases where it is used.
[19:31] <ulfr> knowledge is power. :D
[19:31] <day> relevant for the channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kwamCh1QkE&list=UUKxRARSpahF1Mt-2vbPug-g
[19:31] <day> VERY good video on high frequency stuff :)
[19:31] <ulfr> I was reading on light vs electromagnetic waves few days ago
[19:31] <ulfr> it was interesting
[19:31] <mfa298> but most of the time using the feeder as part of the antenna means someone got their calcs wrong (and you get RF where you don't want RF)
[19:32] <ulfr> I still don't understand the difference antenna vise
[19:32] <ulfr> yeah
[19:32] <day> mfa298: im still missing the part, why an antenna could be too long for a given wavelength :/
[19:32] <ulfr> it goes on intervals
[19:33] <day> the signal hits the end, gets reflected
[19:33] <day> as long as the antenna is long enough there should be a problem :/
[19:33] <ulfr> No
[19:33] <ulfr> because it isn't that simple
[19:33] <ulfr> it hits the antenna as whole I think. but it travels along the antenna
[19:34] <ulfr> see, there's a current/voltage ratio that you want to achieve
[19:34] <day> electrical signals dont travel instantly.
[19:34] <mfa298> an antenna of a certain length will be resonant on a particular frequency - it's effectively a circuit with some Inductance, Capacitance and Resistance (so the impedance is frequency dependant)
[19:34] <ulfr> no, it's at near c.
[19:35] <mfa298> If you feed it at the right point so the impedance of the antenna matches the impedance of what's feeding it you get maximum power transfer.
[19:36] <day> yes, thats equivalent to any circuit. The maximum will be @ load == internal resistance
[19:36] <ulfr> The funny thing is though
[19:37] <ulfr> some antennas are waay off impedance vise
[19:37] <ulfr> but work fine, with no swr (or little)
[19:37] <ulfr> Which makes things weird, and interesting.
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[19:39] <ulfr> day: I'd recommend getting the handbook of the antenna engineer
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[19:40] <mfa298> I believe the arrl antenna handbook is supposed to be good for some antenna design / theory.
[19:40] <ulfr> It's kind of ironic, it's not really a handbook, it's friggin huge.
[19:40] <ulfr> Yeah, but it doesn't go too deep into it imho.
[19:40] <ulfr> but it's good.
[19:41] <mfa298> there's also some good tools to model different antennas at different frequencies (like eznec)
[19:41] <day> i need 'antenna for retards' :P
[19:41] <ulfr> nah
[19:41] <ulfr> Just read a lot.
[19:41] <ulfr> It's really interesting field
[19:42] <ulfr> so much that we know, yet not.
[19:42] <pd3t> Anyone here heard edupic7? as in is it still alive?
[19:42] <pd3t> !ping edupic7
[19:42] <SpacenearUS> 03pd3t: Last contact with 03EDUPIC7 was 032 minutes ago
[19:42] <pd3t> nvm
[19:43] <mfa298> maybe also start off with some fairly simple antennas (dipole) and then start making it more more complex (adding reflectors and directors to make a yagi) and see how it changes things.
[19:44] <ulfr> It's kind of crazy, that every antenna is sort of based off the dipole
[19:44] <ulfr> such an elegant an simple design, yet so complicated.
[19:45] <day> mfa298: yes ofc. i wonder what are these 70cm antennas? i thought they would be lamda/2 antennas. are they dipols? o0
[19:46] <mfa298> which 70cm antennas ?
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[19:46] <ulfr> they are 70cm/4
[19:46] <ulfr> unless they're 5/8
[19:46] <day> the one someone was talking about here earlier :X
[19:46] <ulfr> then it's 1/4+1/2 sort of...
[19:47] <day> 20:04 < day> 433Mhz are available everywhere
[19:47] <day> 20:04 < fsphil> 70cm antenna will be fine
[19:47] <day> 20:04 < day> 433Mhz are available everywhere
[19:47] <day> 20:04 < fsphil> 70cm antenna will be fine
[19:47] <day> ups
[19:47] <ulfr> 70cm = 70cm band
[19:47] <day> oh
[19:47] <ulfr> divide by four and you get 1/4, but 1/4 is just a 1/2 with something else as the other quarter
[19:47] <mfa298> most of the payload antennas are 70/4 (16.4cm) so 1 driven element of 1/4wave and several ground plane radials of 1/4 wave
[19:48] <ulfr> so they're "dipoles"
[19:48] <ulfr> instead of having one other quarter wave half, they have ground planes (radials)
[19:48] <Myself> but the ground plane "reflects" the other virtual half of the antenna, you can say
[19:49] <ulfr> yeah
[19:49] <ulfr> it does
[19:49] <ulfr> but, it changes the azimuth and the curve
[19:49] <mfa298> I tend to think of it as a ground plane creates a sort of mirror and you get a virtual other side of the dipole from the reflected (virtual part)
[19:49] <mfa298> but it acts in a similar way to a dipole - just a more useful design for somethings
[19:49] <ulfr> if you want more power "up" or "down"
[19:50] <ulfr> a horizontal quarter wave on a groundplane can act as a dish antenna...
[19:50] <ulfr> just a very ineffective one
[19:50] <ulfr> good example: IRIDIUM sat discs on ships.
[19:50] <mfa298> vertical dipole for hf (e.g. 80m band) is difficult to do - 40 m high with feed poit near the middle, having a 1/4 wave and ground plane is much easier (20m and feed point at ground level)
[19:51] <day> i see
[19:52] <day> i will try to understand the standard dipol first
[19:52] <ulfr> all antennas are variations of a dipole
[19:52] <ulfr> so that's a good idea
[19:53] <mfa298> day: with those lines 70cm refers to the band it's resonant on not the length of the band. On my car I use a 2m/70cm antenna. It's actually just under 50cm which makes it a good size for both bands
[19:53] <Upu> antennas are just magic and if someone says they understand how they work they are liar and a rotter and a scoundrel
[19:53] <day> :p is it even yet understood why em waves can propagate through space?
[19:54] <ulfr> I think so.
[19:54] <day> :o really?
[19:54] <mfa298> well if they couldn't it would be very dark on earth - light is just a much higher frequency of the same stuff
[19:54] <ulfr> day: yes, because they are photons.
[19:54] <ulfr> Particles on their own.
[19:55] <fsphil> sometimes
[19:55] <day> :P
[19:55] <ulfr> sometimes?
[19:55] <ulfr> em != electricity
[19:55] <fsphil> wavy particals
[19:55] <mfa298> depends how you look at them
[19:55] <day> thats not an explaination thats a construct to explain the whole thing afaik
[19:55] <ulfr> oh
[19:55] <ulfr> mfa298: you mean because photons don't have mass?
[19:55] <ulfr> (or do)
[19:55] <ulfr> it's kind of tricky
[19:55] <day> no they dont
[19:55] <day> at least that one is crystal clear
[19:56] <ulfr> But they don't always travel at c :p
[19:56] <ulfr> And when "frozen" they have mass, iirc.
[19:56] <ulfr> photons are very odd
[19:56] <ulfr> even less understandable than antennas.
[19:56] <mfa298> I'm trying to remember the physics I did ages ago. But I thought em could be particales or waves but not both at the same time. - possibly related to quantum mechanics or somethign like that
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> they are just quantums of em field, think about them that way
[19:57] <day> mfa298: you mean they have the power to have all other powers? :P
[19:57] <fsphil> superparticals
[19:57] <day> sounds like a cheat
[19:57] <ulfr> It might be, that the mass of the photon was lost at big bang
[19:57] Action: ulfr senses the topic is going quantum
[19:58] <ulfr> LeoBodnar: because quantum physics are so simple... ;)
[19:58] <fsphil> it stops as soon as someone observes it?
[19:58] <ulfr> fsphil: that's not how quantum works...
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[19:58] <ulfr> It's just that you can't observe both motion and position at the same time. :D
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[19:59] <ulfr> You can predict where an electron is, but not where it's going.
[19:59] <mfa298> I think this is what I was thinking of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality
[19:59] <day> i always thought of particle duality as a model to explain effects
[19:59] <day> not as a 'thats how it is'
[20:00] <ulfr> hm..
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[20:01] <ulfr> perhaps, I don't think we'll know, yet,
[20:02] <mfa298> we probably need #physics (assuming such a channel exists)
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> it's all about understanding things one can't imagine
[20:02] <day> ofc it exists
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> qm is 99.(9)% maths
[20:03] <ulfr> yeah
[20:03] <ulfr> it's mostly theoretical (until proven in experiment)
[20:03] <ulfr> and math explains most of it
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[20:03] <LeoBodnar> after you accept that everything is just a wave function the rest is easy
[20:03] <ulfr> it's still so hard to wrap your head around this stuff
[20:04] <ulfr> LeoBodnar: yeah, I always think of Einstein's quote "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one."
[20:04] <ulfr> It reminds me that what I can't imagine doesn't mean that I can't undertand it
[20:04] <ulfr> understand*
[20:04] <pd3t> !dial edupic7
[20:04] <SpacenearUS> 03pd3t: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): 03434.65173 MHz
[20:04] <fsphil> it's all waves, all the way down
[20:04] Action: ulfr does the wave
[20:05] <mfa298> o/
[20:05] <fsphil> \/\/\
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> Mexican wave
[20:06] <fsphil> need more than one line for that
[20:06] <mfa298> can we reach high enough for a mexican wave ?
[20:06] <fsphil> yes I just did. you have to believe me. 1000 people saw it
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> i'll go NASA on you
[20:07] <ulfr> lol
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[20:08] <fsphil> but I watched the NASA TV channel. so I must be right
[20:08] <fsphil> and I have a JPL mug
[20:08] <fsphil> respect the mug
[20:08] <ulfr> I just have a space X miug
[20:08] <ulfr> mug*
[20:08] <ulfr> And a space X doormat
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> The best duality mind boggler is double-slit experiment
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> look it up
[20:09] <ulfr> dear god
[20:09] <ulfr> I've read on that
[20:10] <ulfr> it's not for the faint hearted.
[20:10] <fsphil> that's where the giant computer simulating the universe gets it wrong
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> i think someone was sending one electron per minite or smth like that
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> basically you walk through two doors at the same time
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> and bump into yourself
[20:11] <ulfr> the universe is stranger than any fiction.
[20:14] <pd3t> !whereis edupic7
[20:14] <SpacenearUS> 03pd3t: 03EDUPIC7 is over 03North Sea 10(54.98497,5.1273) at 036115 meters
[20:16] <ulfr> The thing that makes me wonder though.
[20:16] <ulfr> How do you arm a gun with a particle.
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[20:18] <LeoBodnar> you can't because of the uncertainty principle
[20:18] <ulfr> yes well...
[20:18] <ulfr> How does one fire it then?
[20:18] <ulfr> This outweirds me.
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[20:33] <jededu> Yes pd3t still over the north sea it needs to get a move on
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[20:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> Im ready to recive, sholud be in my range early tomorrow morning
[20:44] <jededu> Where are you based SA6BSS-Mike>
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[20:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> sw sweden
[20:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> you se me on the map
[20:46] <jededu> Got you it should speed up a little
[20:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah its slow :)
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[21:13] <jededu> Is MH on here?
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[21:33] <Rebounder> SA6BSS-Mike: godkväll.
[21:35] <ulfr> OH NOES!
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[21:36] <Ian_> Oh yes, Spaceship two anomally. Not a good week for space flight it seems.
[21:36] <ulfr> no
[21:36] <ulfr> 2/3 failure ratio.
[21:37] <Ian_> They do say that if you hear of one, that you will hear of three. Ducks head!
[21:39] <Bob_Saget> Hey guys, is this an ok to connect the RTL-SDR dongle up with the HABamp?
[21:39] <Bob_Saget> http://i61.tinypic.com/315zdli.jpg
[21:40] <Bob_Saget> http://i62.tinypic.com/2zplbmw.jpg
[21:40] <Bob_Saget> if you see any probs can you guys let me know?
[21:41] <Upu> looking
[21:42] <Upu> well
[21:42] <Upu> technically it should work
[21:43] <Upu> looks a bit err pikey but hey ho
[21:43] <Upu> have you trimmed the PCB down ?
[21:43] <Bob_Saget> yeah gonna put this in a waterproof pipe attached to the antenna
[21:43] <Upu> ok fair enough
[21:43] <Bob_Saget> had to trim it a bit
[21:43] <Upu> 2mtr one ?
[21:43] <Bob_Saget> yeah
[21:44] <Bob_Saget> then a 15 ft usb cord to my RPI
[21:44] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 15 ft = 4.57 m
[21:44] <Upu> sure why not just watch it doesn't tear any pads off doesn't look too strong :)
[21:45] <Bob_Saget> ohh it's strong, got it solded on the back sides too
[21:46] <Upu> let me know how you get on with it
[21:46] <Upu> not had much feedback on the 2mtr ones
[21:46] <Upu> the ADS-B ones people seem to love
[21:46] <Bob_Saget> ok but I don't have anything to compare it too
[21:47] <Upu> what are you recieving ?
[21:47] <Bob_Saget> guess i'll see how far i can reach when I launch
[21:47] <Bob_Saget> building one of aadamsons pico trackers
[21:47] <Upu> aprs ?
[21:47] <Bob_Saget> yeah
[21:47] <Upu> ok
[21:47] <Bob_Saget> i'm in the US
[21:47] <Bob_Saget> bout to be china
[21:47] <Upu> well you could just set up an RX only igate
[21:48] <Upu> first
[21:49] <Bob_Saget> already did, but wasnt getting anything with the stock antenna and no preamp
[21:49] <Upu> unusual are you in a rural area ?
[21:50] <Bob_Saget> no i'm in the city, and I don't know if that is unusual, have a new antenna to try
[21:50] <Bob_Saget> so guess i'll give this a shot
[21:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> !dial EDUPIC7
[21:50] <SpacenearUS> 03SA6BSS-Mike: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC7 10(464d): none
[21:50] <Upu> sounds usual
[21:50] <Upu> check APRS.fi to see if there is anythign around you
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[21:57] <Bob_Saget> ok will do thanks Upu
[21:58] <day> what is this center resistor good for? http://www.packetradio.com/images/bascdipl.gif
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[22:03] <Ian_> That is an insulator, to keep the two sides of the dipole from pulling apart and a mounting point for that end of the feeder. Normally used to be made of glass or ceramic, but these days a plastics material is to be preferred.
[22:04] <day> Ian_: so it would work just as well without it?
[22:06] <Ian_> You would need an insulator of some sort.
[22:06] <day> well air is an insulator as well
[22:06] <day> http://www.lincomatic.com/wireless/biquadfeed.jpg
[22:07] <Ian_> Unfortunately air doesn't support the centre of the dipole though.
[22:07] <day> hm so its not just a mechanical stabilization?
[22:08] <Ian_> No. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/350651313882?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0
[22:09] <Ian_> The wavy shape is designed to maximise the electrical path so that moisture has little effect - no puddles.
[22:09] <day> what would happen if the two poles touch eachother?
[22:09] <day> like they do in the biquad picture?
[22:09] <Ian_> I used to key up a medium powered military CW transmitter and head nothing until the ice had melted.
[22:10] <Ian_> You can have metal insulators . . . this is RF we are talking about.
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[22:11] <day> hm. ive no idea how adding an isolator their would change something :/. Does this thing have a name so i can read up about it?
[22:11] <day> there*
[22:12] <Ian_> It is a dog bone antenna insulator. See this for a delta matched half wave antenna. http://www.g4nsj.co.uk/delta.shtml
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[22:14] <Laurenceb__> uh oh virgin galactic
[22:15] <arko> yeah :/
[22:16] <stilldavid> bad week for private space, man. :(
[22:17] <arko> indeed
[22:19] <ulfr> Yes.
[22:19] <ulfr> So sad.
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[22:22] <Upu> yup
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[22:26] <mfa298> day: one thing to remember is that an antenna is a tunned LCR circuit. Due to their design the current and voltage are not in phase, this means there current and voltage values vary along the length. For a half wave dipole generally the current it high in the middle and low at the ends, the voltage is low in the middle and high at the ends.
[22:27] <mfa298> if you apply ohms law you'll find the impedance changes along the length of the antenna
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[22:28] <mfa298> which may allow the antenna to look like a DC short in some examples (like that biquad feed)
[22:29] <Ian_> The favourite cock up is when feeding DC up a feeder to power a home made mast head preamp, then swapping the dipole based yagi for a folded dipole based yagi, where the driven element shorts the DC supply.
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[22:29] <Ian_> *where the folded driven element *
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[22:37] <day> mfa298: the current is ALWAYS max in the mid? i thought the maximum moves through the antenna
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[22:46] <rasterise> this might sound like a stupid question but how do you actually get dl-fldigi to start in hab mode :/
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> windows, linux?
[22:47] <rasterise> windows 8
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> it did not create two icons?
[22:48] <rasterise> oh upon inspection there are indeed 2 icons
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:49] <rasterise> thank you for that
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
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[23:11] <rasterise> has anyone on here used the funcube pro+ sdr with dl-fldigi?
[23:14] <bbjunkie> rasterise - yep
[23:15] <rasterise> oh thank god
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[23:17] <rasterise> oh wait... I'm not sure what happened but it's suddenly started workin
[23:17] <rasterise> well that's embarrassing... thanks for your offer of help
[23:20] <mfa298> rasterise: for best results you need to use something like sdr sharp to decode the audio from the FCD Pro+ and then feed the audio from sdr sharp into dl-fldigi
[23:20] <Upu> lots of people rasterise
[23:21] <Upu> run something like SDRSharp/SDR Radio V2 -> Virtual Audio Cable -> Dl-fldigi
[23:21] <Upu> !wiki SDR
[23:21] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03sdr_tracker (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[23:21] <mfa298> if you've set the FCD Pro+ as the input device in dl-fldigi it will work with a strong signal but it may struggle with weaker signals
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[23:24] <rasterise> ah ok so it's worth using the virtual audio cable. At the moment I'm going straight from sdrsharp to dl-fldigi
[23:25] <Upu> what output did you select ?
[23:27] <rasterise> "Capture: Line ( FUNcube Dongle V2.0 )"
[23:27] <Upu> go via virtual audio cable
[23:29] <rasterise> I'm guessing you have to buy the full version right? The free trial one will be mucked up by the "voice reminder every few seconds"
[23:30] <Upu> there are some programs that do the same for free
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[23:30] <Upu> I liked VAc so I bought it
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[23:34] <rasterise> ok thanks, I'll have a look at it. I'm assuming from your name that I've been looking at your website for a few hours. It really is incredibly useful
[23:35] <Upu> ava.upuaut.net ? If so thanks for reading it I do wonder sometimes :)
[23:35] <rasterise> don't worry, it's very much appreciated :D
[23:36] <day> all the dipol explaination videos do not include this strange isolator between theh two poles. If its that important, why do they ignore it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF5r64fmFhU
[23:37] <Darkside> its not an isolator, its a balun
[23:38] <Darkside> and the intent is to do A) impedance matching, and B) reduce reflected signals travelling back down the coax to the transmitter
[23:38] <Darkside> you can make whats known as an 'ugly' balun, by making a choke out of the feeder coax
[23:38] <Darkside> usually a few turns of coax either around a ferite, or sometimes air-wound for VHF/UHF
[23:39] <Darkside> this is only required to match a balanced dipole to unbalanced feedline - if you're feeding a dipole with balanced line, you dont need it
[23:41] <day> Darkside: so its a fine tuner (Resistor) in the LC network?
[23:41] <day> well like in a LC network
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[23:43] <mfa298> day: not really, it's for converting from a BALanced antennas (dipole) to UNbalanced feeder (coax)
[23:44] <mfa298> BAL UN - hence balun
[23:44] <mfa298> they can also act as an impedance transformer depending on how they're made
[23:44] <mfa298> but for a dipole 1:1 is about right.
[23:45] <mfa298> you may also come accross ununs for which are unbalnced on both sides
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[23:47] <day> mfa298: what exactly does balanced mean? voltage and current are not shifted from one another?
[23:48] <day> like power factor correction?
[23:51] <mfa298> it's to do with the conductors
[23:51] <day> yeah i start to understand it
[23:52] <mfa298> you get balanced feeders which are two wires seperated by a fixed amount - which are usually higher impedance 300 / 450 / 600 ohm
[23:52] <mfa298> coax is an unbalanced feeder
[23:53] <day> because the current on the outer conductor can travel back through it?
[23:53] <day> which u want to prevend?
[23:53] <mfa298> for radio coax is usually 50 ohm (but you can get 75 and 92 ohm coax - and possibly others)
[23:53] <mfa298> at higher frequency coax can act like three conductors, the inner, the inside of the braid and the outside of the braid
[23:57] <mfa298> with the ugly balun it acts as a choke, which adds inductance to the outside of the braid
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[23:58] <day> well i dont know how the balun does that yet. but at least i understand why it exists ;>
[00:00] --- Sat Nov 1 2014