highaltitude.log.20141030

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[00:03] <kf7fer> nats`: Thanks. low power but a bit spendy. And daveake: Seemed like a good choice I was just wondering if there was something better
[00:06] <qyx_> kf7fer: LIS331
[00:07] <kf7fer> qyx_: interesting. But what a terrible footprint.
[00:08] <qyx_> not that low power
[00:08] <qyx_> why terrible?
[00:09] <kf7fer> just seems like a tighter pitch between pads - at least at a glance - than the the ADXL345
[00:10] <qyx_> they should be identical
[00:11] <qyx_> no
[00:11] <qyx_> adxl362 and lis331 are identical, adxl345 is a bit weird
[00:11] <qyx_> 0.8mm pitch
[00:12] <kf7fer> oh... I'm sorry, you're right. I was comparing the layout to that of the 345
[00:12] <kf7fer> that's a great choice - the price is what I'd hoped for (and was stupid and didn't notice how much the 345 cost)
[00:13] <qyx_> yep, also 16bit resolution, although you don't need it for freefall detection
[00:13] <qyx_> and high ODR
[00:14] <qyx_> a penalty is higher power requirement
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> There are some awesome chips out there.
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> 9 axis even
[00:14] <SpeedEvil> 9
[00:14] <kf7fer> higher power than the 345 you mean?
[00:14] <qyx_> than 362 :)
[00:15] <Bob_Saget> hi, sorry hope i'm not interrupting, can anyone suggest a good antenna for my aprs igate? will need to be small, hanging from my balcony in hong kong
[00:15] <kf7fer> ah ok. Still low cost does help
[00:15] <Bob_Saget> but good for aiming up
[00:15] <qyx_> and also a bit higher than 345
[00:15] <qyx_> if i am cmparing correctly
[00:16] <kf7fer> Ah ok. I'll have to look closer at that
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[00:19] <qyx_> now i realized that al/dl/dlh have quite different parameters and are optimized for different purposes probably
[00:19] <qyx_> DLH seems to be low power version
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[00:20] <kf7fer> I was looking at the DLH
[00:20] <kf7fer> Bob_Saget: I've had great luck just sticking a 2m "slim jim" antenna to the side of my house but I'm sure someone else will suggest something better
[00:21] <kf7fer> Specifically http://www.n9tax.com/Slim%20Jim%20Info.html
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[00:24] <Bob_Saget> ahh very cool! thanks for the advice kf7fer. Looking at the radiation patterns, they are more horizontal no?
[00:24] <ulfr> the azimuth is lower on j-pole
[00:24] <Bob_Saget> but that would be great for my balcony!
[00:25] <Bob_Saget> just hang it out there
[00:25] <ulfr> Depends. Are you high above sea level?
[00:25] <ulfr> I might be biased, but I don't like j-poles at all.
[00:25] <ulfr> dipole or stacked dipole is my antenna of choice.
[00:27] <Bob_Saget> no, well i'm 65 floors above sea level
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[00:28] <Bob_Saget> got a big hill behind me though
[00:28] <ulfr> the dipole will have the same radiation pattern downwards but a bit lower on the higher "altitudes"
[00:28] <ulfr> it's also dead simple to fabricate.
[00:28] <ulfr> pvc tube and a coax.
[00:28] <Bob_Saget> ok just two wires from the coax? I have an E4000 and the HABamp in a waterproof pvs, with sma connector for antenna
[00:29] <Bob_Saget> sorry pvc pipe
[00:29] <Bob_Saget> with 15 ft usb extension to computer
[00:29] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 15 ft = 4.57 m
[00:29] <ulfr> Bob_Saget: what frequency?
[00:30] <ulfr> 2m?
[00:30] <Bob_Saget> yes
[00:30] <ulfr> coax >5m lenght is fine
[00:30] <ulfr> length*
[00:30] <Bob_Saget> no signal loss? i just wanted to keep coax lenght to a min
[00:31] <ulfr> I would not worry too much on that if the distance is less than 5m
[00:31] <Bob_Saget> ok thank you. so dipole with less than 5m of coax
[00:31] <ulfr> yeah, that's what I'd do if I needed a cheap setup
[00:31] <ulfr> (and have done)
[00:32] <ulfr> normally I use fibreglass or kathrein stacked dipoles, but that's just because I have access to those :P
[00:32] <Bob_Saget> wonder how far i can track with that?
[00:32] <Bob_Saget> not too many aprs rx around here
[00:32] <ulfr> ~400km if it's los
[00:33] <Bob_Saget> ok thanks ulfr
[00:33] <ulfr> your welcome
[00:33] <ulfr> it might be easier btw to just use some copper wire for the antenna iwthin the pvc tube, and solder to that the coax
[00:33] <ulfr> just be careful not to short anything and to keep the soldering connection good.
[00:34] <ulfr> most antennas die from connector issues.
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[00:41] <Bob_Saget> ok so dipole just needs two wires I see
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[00:41] <Bob_Saget> do I need an SWR meter to do this right?
[00:41] <Bob_Saget> and what size wire?
[00:42] <Bob_Saget> sorry googling around but maybe you know better
[00:42] <ulfr> it's just rx right?
[00:42] <ulfr> it's just lambda=f/c * 95%
[00:43] <ulfr> divide that by 4 and you have the length of each "arm" of the dipole.
[00:44] <ulfr> lambda in meters, f= frequency, c= light constant (300Mm/s)
[00:45] <ulfr> the percentage is due to lightwaves do not travel this fast in none-vacuum.
[00:45] <ulfr> (and 95% is some sort of an average in athmosphere I think?)
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[00:46] <ulfr> Oh, the wire size is "irrelevant" at this level.
[00:47] <ulfr> 0,75~1,5q is fine.
[00:47] <ulfr> (of course it isn't but it's not a huge factor on what you are doing)
[00:49] <Bob_Saget> ok cool. so I can use some 18 gauge wire solid core
[00:49] <Bob_Saget> hey one more questions
[00:49] <Bob_Saget> question
[00:49] <Bob_Saget> what frequency should i use to rx here?
[00:49] <Bob_Saget> i don't see asia listed in the wiki
[00:50] <ulfr> hm
[00:50] <ulfr> Any activity around you?
[00:51] <Bob_Saget> VR2VAV-1 isn't too far away
[00:51] <ulfr> if it's transmitting, I'd suggest listening to that. Maybe you use the australian band or the european band?
[00:51] <ulfr> it's either 144.39 or 144.8 iirc
[00:52] <Bob_Saget> ok his is on 144.640
[00:52] <ulfr> ah
[00:52] <ulfr> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies
[00:52] <ulfr> Perhaps this wiki might be updated with that then.
[00:53] <ulfr> Oh, you live in Hong Kong?
[00:54] <Bob_Saget> yeah, well that is where the igate will be setup
[00:54] <Bob_Saget> by the airport in HKG
[00:54] <ulfr> cool
[00:54] <Bob_Saget> tung chung
[00:54] <Bob_Saget> but i want to be able to rx the hab balloons like B64
[00:54] <Bob_Saget> so I want to be tuned to the right freq
[00:55] <ulfr> What's your callsign btw?
[00:55] <ulfr> yeah
[00:55] <Bob_Saget> i don't have one
[00:55] <Bob_Saget> but an aprs rx only doesn't need one
[00:55] <Bob_Saget> right?
[00:55] <ulfr> Hm..
[00:55] <ulfr> it needs validation of some sort towards the T2 server.
[00:56] <Bob_Saget> yeah there is a .py script
[00:56] <Bob_Saget> that gens a key
[00:58] <Bob_Saget> cd ~/src/pymultimonaprs
[00:58] <Bob_Saget> ./keygen.py CALLSIGN
[00:58] <Bob_Saget> Key for CALL: 31983
[00:58] <Bob_Saget> that seemed to work and let me login
[00:58] <Bob_Saget> to aprs.fi
[00:58] <ulfr> of course.
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[01:00] <ulfr> but that's a very bad practice"
[01:00] <ulfr> You should consult your local radio ham club.
[01:00] <ulfr> perhaps someone is willing to "lend" you a callsign for an rx-only station.
[01:02] <ulfr> the "passcode" auth mechanism is a really bad hash thingy against a callsign (the so-called algorithm can be found online)
[01:04] <ulfr> so, to do things correctly and not provoke the moral of some people, I'd suggest finding a ham club close to you, consult them, and borrow someone's callsign for an rx igate, or at least get involved with the aprs community and work it from there.
[01:04] <Bob_Saget> i'm suppose to take the ham test saturday
[01:04] <ulfr> Cool.
[01:04] <ulfr> Then you'll be able to use your own callsign on your igate.
[01:05] <ulfr> btw what software are you using for igating?
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[01:05] <Bob_Saget> yeah that is the plan
[01:05] <Bob_Saget> took an odroid
[01:05] <Bob_Saget> and followed this pretty much
[01:05] <Bob_Saget> http://www.kubonweb.de/?p=130
[01:05] <Bob_Saget> I have a B200 USRP i'll be using in the future
[01:05] <ulfr> so the cpu is android?
[01:06] <Bob_Saget> yeah
[01:06] <Bob_Saget> running debian
[01:06] <ulfr> Do you know the prices for those things?
[01:07] <ulfr> I've been looking for a tx/rx sdr unit for a while, can't find anything that I find "decent" enough..
[01:07] <ulfr> Except the flex...
[01:07] <ulfr> if you are running debian you could as well run aprx, it's a nice igate software with small footprint.
[01:08] <Bob_Saget> my B200 was pricy
[01:08] <Bob_Saget> was 600 bucks
[01:08] <Bob_Saget> shipped from hungary
[01:09] <Bob_Saget> ok i'll look into it, does aprx support uhd?
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[01:15] <ulfr> not sure, but I guess so?
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[01:16] <ulfr> What is uhd?
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[01:26] <Bob_Saget> the drivers for the b200
[01:27] <ulfr> oh
[01:28] <ulfr> it's more, what kind of protocol you can connect to it.
[01:28] <ulfr> if it supports kiss protocol for example, it shouldn't be a problem.
[01:28] <ulfr> I'm not that sage in the sdr department, so I can't really tell.
[01:28] <ulfr> but I somehow suspect that if you can connect it to some igate software, aprx should be able to cope it.
[01:31] <Bob_Saget> Ok well, I bought the B200 for GSM testing really, not for an igate
[01:31] <Bob_Saget> i think for that the RPI and a cheap SDR dongle will suffice
[01:38] <ulfr> yeah
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[05:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC6 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC6
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[06:00] <jededu> EDUPIC6 is up 434.650, 100, 8n2
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[06:39] <ok1cdj> what is expected life of EDUPIC6 ??
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[06:50] <Upu> is that the first launch that went up before its scheduled time ever ?
[06:54] <Upu> doesn't give you much chance to tune :/
[06:54] <Upu> should get it next time
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[07:00] <jededu> Did you get it
[07:06] <Upu> yep
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[07:13] <jededu> This one should float :)
[07:15] <jededu> oklcjd thats what I am testing
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[07:23] <deano86> hey guys, when building the payload box, is there anything you can do to stop it spinning about so much on its ascent?
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[07:27] <edmoore> tubula braid or tape on the harness lines, instead of string
[07:28] <edmoore> fins maybe
[07:28] <edmoore> or you can go mad
[07:28] <edmoore> with giant streamers
[07:28] <edmoore> http://vimeo.com/3803248
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[07:33] <deano86> giant streamers might restrict the view somwhat!
[07:33] <deano86> :P
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[07:33] <edmoore> payload was at the top
[07:33] <edmoore> but yes
[07:33] <edmoore> that was for a specific job
[07:34] <deano86> they worked then!
[07:34] <deano86> thats pretty neat :)
[07:35] <deano86> do people come to you to ask you to send things into space then?
[07:36] <edmoore> i mean task
[07:36] <edmoore> rather than job
[07:36] <edmoore> also balloons *never* go into space
[07:36] <edmoore> they can't
[07:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC7 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC7
[07:39] <deano86> well near space hehe :)
[07:39] <deano86> and thats cool people asking you to help out
[07:40] <edmoore> no, i mean that flight was for our own research
[07:40] <edmoore> rather than for someone else
[07:41] <deano86> oh ok, it is still a good thing to be involved with
[07:42] <deano86> I read that you guys want to send a telescope into space
[07:42] <deano86> or I think I read it
[07:42] <deano86> i say space
[07:43] <deano86> i mean on a HAB
[07:44] <edmoore> i wanted to for a bit, didn;t though
[07:44] <edmoore> there are lots of projects
[07:47] <goopypanther> I take it edupic7 hasn't launched yet?
[07:48] <jededu> No just a backup
[07:48] <jededu> In case EDUPIC6 pops
[07:49] <goopypanther> did you launch from your backyard where the station is or across town where the edupic6 trail starts?
[07:50] <jededu> Back Yard
[07:54] <jededu> This one weighs 16g
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[07:56] <goopypanther> battery or solar?
[07:57] <goopypanther> also what's your record flight length?
[07:57] <jededu> AAA Lithium, solar next
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[07:57] <UpuWork> nice signal
[07:57] <jededu> One went up to norway then lost track
[07:58] <jededu> MTX2 again :)
[07:59] <jededu> When its idling its pulling about 6ma
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[08:00] <edmoore> is that with the en pin disabled?
[08:00] <jededu> On the MTX yes
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[08:01] <jededu> and the pic in sleep mode 30na
[08:02] <edmoore> that's crap
[08:02] <jededu> how is it crap
[08:02] <edmoore> (mtx2 disabled current)
[08:03] <jededu> the mtx2 is off the pic is off the ublox is in power save getting a fix every 10 secs
[08:04] <edmoore> sure
[08:04] <edmoore> i just mean that having the mtx2 draw 6ma still when disabled isn;t good
[08:04] <jededu> the ublox draws about 5ma
[08:04] <jededu> when in powersave
[08:05] <edmoore> it's doing something
[08:05] <jededu> yes the ublox is i dont turn it off
[08:06] <jededu> the rest in temp sensor & RTC
[08:08] <edmoore> so, to be clear as you are saying things that suggest we're having different conversations
[08:08] <edmoore> the current draw from the mtx2, when disabled via the en pin, is 6ma?
[08:08] <jededu> No the total is 6ma
[08:09] <edmoore> right
[08:09] <edmoore> that makes more sense
[08:09] <jededu> I think we were on different tracks :)
[08:09] <edmoore> [07:58] <jededu> MTX2 again :)
[08:09] <edmoore> [07:59] <jededu> When its idling its pulling about 6ma
[08:09] <edmoore> i parsed that bit wrong
[08:09] <jededu> Yes i see how
[08:10] <edmoore> ok, that makes much more sense and is quite respectable :)
[08:10] <jededu> Thanks :)
[08:11] <UpuWork> thats pretty much all ublox
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[08:12] <jededu> Yes its as trimmed down as I can get it without switching off
[08:13] <jededu> Unless you have any secrets upu?
[08:13] <UpuWork> nope thats as low as it goes without a total switch off
[08:15] <jededu> Looks like its leveling out
[08:15] Nick change: day- -> day
[08:16] <edmoore> http://i.imgur.com/eyR5X9V.jpg
[08:16] <jededu> :)
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[08:29] <pe1bia> goodmorning all
[08:30] <UpuWork> morning
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[08:31] <jededu> I do believe its floating :)
[08:32] <jededu> Is that about the max height with a single foil ?
[08:33] <jededu> 6000m
[08:41] <gonzo___> not to many listerners this time of the morning. And out of range for me
[08:41] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[08:41] <fsphil> these winds are not helping me at all this month
[08:41] <fsphil> everything's going east
[08:41] <daveake> good time for you to launch then
[08:41] <fsphil> working on it
[08:42] <fsphil> it's tradition for me to launch on the worst winter day
[08:42] <gonzo_> I though dave did that, in blizards
[08:43] <daveake> yeah that was pretty bad
[08:44] <UpuWork> Though it did make for some wonderful images
[08:45] <daveake> The girl undressing in the snow helped too
[08:46] <fsphil> so far this has never happened at any of my launches
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[08:49] <mfa298> jededu: max height is very much dependant on payload weight. I think Leo got one foil to ~10km but that was one of his very light payloads
[08:51] <UpuWork> thats where you're going wrong fsphil
[08:51] <UpuWork> of all the commercial launches that was one of the few that actually had a story line
[08:51] <daveake> Yeah, you need to upgrade your chase team http://i.imgur.com/7A8u3xy.jpg
[08:51] <UpuWork> and the launch was in the context of what they were doing
[08:51] <UpuWork> dude closest to the back looks like he has a rail gun
[08:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-m> !dial edupic6
[08:57] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-m: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.64876 MHz, 434.6489 MHz, 434.65172 MHz
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[09:01] <jededu> upu work
[09:02] <jededu> ping
[09:02] <UpuWork> morning
[09:02] <jededu> Diy they get that balloon back
[09:02] <UpuWork> Not heard, I suspect not
[09:03] <UpuWork> it may have landed in Wales
[09:03] <jededu> a bit far from leicester !
[09:03] <UpuWork> well they think that one report you got was on the way down
[09:03] <UpuWork> which may explain why I couldn't hear it
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[09:04] <jededu> It was next one was 7000 ish
[09:04] <UpuWork> oh in that case certainly on the way down
[09:04] <UpuWork> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=5c266e36e5cad810199bf4623e1a0db6d10751cd
[09:06] <jededu> mmm thats not an easy one
[09:06] <edmoore> lol
[09:06] <edmoore> got sturdy boots
[09:06] <edmoore> ?
[09:07] <UpuWork> well
[09:07] <UpuWork> for added bonus their telemetry isn't continious
[09:07] <fsphil> no crc either
[09:08] <jededu> EDUPIC6 is hovering
[09:08] <daveake> what flight is this?
[09:08] <UpuWork> I've politely suggested they switch to continous, adhere to UKHAS protocol and announce their launches
[09:08] <fsphil> daveake: BARC
[09:08] <UpuWork> commercial outfit :)
[09:08] <daveake> ah
[09:08] <daveake> and arrghh
[09:08] <UpuWork> their GSM backup didn't work
[09:08] <fsphil> yea if they'd announced I'd have made sure the radio at home was on
[09:09] <UpuWork> who'd have thought
[09:09] <fsphil> actually turns out it was on, but I'd disconnected the usb cable
[09:09] <gonzo_> are vthey txing at the mo ?
[09:09] <daveake> You're fast approaching LL's list of excuses
[09:10] <edmoore> what do barc do?
[09:12] <UpuWork> payload disposal service I believe
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[09:12] <jededu> Lol
[09:12] <DutchMillbt> !dial EDUPIC6
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> 03DutchMillbt: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.64876 MHz, 434.65172 MHz, 434.6489 MHz, 434.6485 MHz
[09:17] <DutchMillbt> Morning , EDUPIC6 signal getting stronger over here, just wait for the first green
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[09:19] <DutchMillbt> $$$$EDUPIC6,147,09:19:04,5313.13687,00020.96366,09,6389.8,0,0,6,1.43*3AA5
[09:19] <jededu> where can I check wind data at altitude ?
[09:20] <jededu> <DutchMillbt> :)
[09:21] <DutchMillbt> try the weather reports @ http://alerteselectroniques.fr/rs/?page_id=15
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[09:22] <DutchMillbt> aha there is 'mister green' ;-)
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[09:27] <jededu> Found it http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-7.03,52.24,3000
[09:32] <DutchMillbt> Morning is EDUPIC7 also going up today?
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[09:36] <jededu> Not if EDUPIC6 stays up
[09:36] <jededu> Probably Saturday
[09:37] <DutchMillbt> ...oke thankz for the info jedeu
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[09:40] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: EDUPIC6 not yet in range for remote RX @ RevSpace.
[09:41] <Maxell> 434.650 right?
[09:41] <craag> yep
[09:41] <craag> not bad on websdr - but not set up for decode here
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[09:42] <craag> dial of 434.649 here
[09:42] <jededu> Maxell yes
[09:42] <DutchMillbt> Mogu Maxell , just wait a few mins... try 434,649,62
[09:42] <Maxell> ack jededu
[09:42] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: will check
[09:42] <Maxell> It's on a dongle so won't be 100 Hz work :P
[09:43] <MaXimaN> I can see and hear the signal but no decodes yet
[09:44] <joeman> Hey guys, if I measure just the lift (kg) of the balloon only...
[09:44] <joeman> that is "Neck Lift" isn't ?
[09:44] <joeman> i.e. no payload attached
[09:45] <joeman> Just realised it is a great way to confirm I have the amount of gas...rather then stuffing around treying to measure diameter
[09:46] <DutchMillbt> Maxell try to set the custom shift @ 370
[09:46] <craag> joeman: Yes
[09:46] <DutchMillbt> that works for me
[09:46] <joeman> Cool!
[09:46] <craag> That's the way most of us do it :)
[09:47] <joeman> yes, I think I might keep the long PVC pipe..but just for getting it out of a tree :)
[09:47] <jededu> joeman http://habhub.org/calc/
[09:47] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: roger
[09:47] <craag> Fill a bottle with water to the right weight (minus weight of fill tube), then fill until it just lifts it.
[09:47] <joeman> First launch
[09:47] <joeman> jededu: Yep.
[09:47] <joeman> Just jotted down a bunch of various neck lift...
[09:47] <craag> (Don't let go at that point!)
[09:47] <joeman> so I can see 'where I'm up to'
[09:47] <joeman> as I fill it up
[09:47] <joeman> ahhh yes
[09:48] <joeman> not a bad idea...3,5litres is what I need
[09:51] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: "\Uffffffff75/003328c\UffffffffBfe/\Uffffffff" :)
[09:51] <Maxell> Soming coming trough
[09:53] <Maxell> Still too weak :)
[09:53] <Maxell> If it floats it will improve.
[09:53] <pe1bia> what means EDUPIC
[09:53] <Maxell> And I might be home at the most critical point, balloon outside UK receiver range.
[09:54] <Maxell> pe1bia: EDUPIC6 is flying today :)
[09:55] <joeman> I put a regulator on a cylinder today...
[09:55] <joeman> turned on He gas.
[09:55] <joeman> Then turned off on cylinder and then opened regulator
[09:55] <joeman> and it made the loudest sound
[09:55] <joeman> no tube attached
[09:55] <joeman> sounds like it has enough energy to rip a balloon to shreds
[09:56] <pe1bia> what are the letters standing for
[09:56] <joeman> But assume that with the tube attached...it muffles the sound a little
[09:56] <joeman> The sound it makes is a bit unsettling
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[09:58] <Maxell> pe1bia:
[09:58] <Maxell> pe1bia: I think the board is equiped with a PIC :)
[09:58] <Maxell> edu = education?
[09:58] <jededu> Yes it is a PIC and EDU education or it was
[09:58] <craag> joeman: Yeah you only need to open it a very tiny bit
[09:59] <pe1bia> thanks
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[09:59] <craag> The gas going from v. high pressure in the cylinder to atmos. pressure releases a lot of energy (as kinetic in the regulator that converts to sound)
[10:00] <joeman> yes. I did open it ever so slowly...but I guess it shouldn't really surpruise me..you are right a lot of energy has gone to get it in...have to get it back in some form I guess
[10:00] <joeman> I'll open up both just very gradually when I'm inflating it
[10:02] <joeman> mmm ok
[10:02] <joeman> craag: It clicked!
[10:02] <joeman> souond, yes...sound...and less pressure as a result. Sound itself is not going to hurt...it is a sign that it is doing its job
[10:03] <joeman> Thanks :)
[10:03] <joeman> It has been the most exhausting week just getting ready for this
[10:03] <joeman> Hopefully we don't have to wander too far to recover
[10:03] <joeman> it is about 37 degress C where we are
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[10:04] <craag> joeman: Have you done predictions?
[10:04] <joeman> yep
[10:04] <joeman> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=ebe3f39cd331cb530ae32241ac813acdbd1090ad
[10:04] <joeman> Though still 36hrs out
[10:05] <craag> looking good down there
[10:05] <craag> wind is a nightmare here in uk atm
[10:05] <daveake> Looks hilly and tree-y
[10:05] <gonzo_> the regulator is only going to limit the pressure. But the baloon won't be pushing back at all, so it basically has no pressure in it. The only back pressure you will get in the turbulence/resistance of the He pushing it's way out of the reg and alaong the pipework. Which is not much. So if you set a very low pressure on the reg,m it will start to limit the flow, against the tubing.
[10:06] <joeman> ahh the tubing will limit things a little
[10:06] <joeman> yes
[10:06] <joeman> we are very luky with the wind here
[10:07] <joeman> it could have gone s/e thourgh four wheel drive territory
[10:07] <craag> I've seen some photos from Darksid_e's chases
[10:07] <craag> off road driving for hours
[10:07] <craag> then HF radio to talk back to base :)
[10:07] <joeman> I can imagine!
[10:08] <gonzo_> looking out over the bay here, it's like a mill pond. Ideal launch ing wx
[10:08] <craag> All seems a bit exotic where the furthest I've had here was a 20 minute walk from the road :P
[10:08] <joeman> Well. we hope to hang around for 15min to observe..the drive to another place to observe...and then drive to final place to "observe" (electronically) the pop
[10:09] <joeman> gonzo_. When you say set to a low pressure
[10:09] <gonzo_> with the UK winds, you are usually driving hard to try and keep up with the balloon
[10:09] <craag> Once it's burst, spacenearus will give a pretty good indication of landing location.
[10:09] <joeman> do you mean just opening the valve just a very small amount?
[10:09] <joeman> gonzo_: Crazy
[10:09] <joeman> we have alot of country here
[10:10] <joeman> (crazy trying to keep up)
[10:10] <daveake> We have a lot of coast
[10:10] <UpuWork> apparently barc recovered
[10:10] <daveake> wow
[10:11] <gonzo_> the regulator is not just a valve, it has a diaphram inside which actually controls the valve, based on the pressure coming out and the atmospheric pressure. The pressure knob you turn is actually changing the pressure on a sopring that acrts on the diaphram.
[10:11] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC2,180,30:\Uffffffff244,1316.06853.00053992\Uffffffff2,0\Uffffffff\Uffffffff\Uffffffff9\Uffffffff4.4,0,0,19,1.46*\UffffffffCEF
[10:12] <gonzo_> but basically yes, with what is effectivly just an open pipe on the end, you will only see any flow limiting at really low pressure settings on the regulator
[10:13] <craag> UpuWork: Suggest for next time they write a standard for the telem strings and then build a community of receivers who can be alerted to a flight and co-operate with the tracking. Or they could just join us :)
[10:13] <UpuWork> yeah if only there was a network of recievers
[10:14] <daveake> that sounds ideal
[10:14] <gonzo_> or they insist on the customer providing a backup launch mascot, and have a big earth/space shot picture in the chase van. And some balloon shreds
[10:15] <gonzo_> and be sure to get to the landing spot well ahead of anyone else
[10:17] Action: nickjohnson feels like a good motto for this channel would be "#highaltitude: Launching helium into space since YYYY"
[10:18] <UpuWork> real men use Hydrogen
[10:18] <daveake> Well, not space
[10:18] <daveake> and that ^
[10:18] <nickjohnson> daveake: Yes space
[10:18] <nickjohnson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape
[10:18] <UpuWork> the helium ends up in space
[10:19] <daveake> launched into ?
[10:19] <nickjohnson> Well, you get it most of the way there and it takes care of the rest :P
[10:22] <jededu> upu Where was it recovered ?
[10:22] <UpuWork> I have no details
[10:22] <UpuWork> just that it was recovered very late last night
[10:22] <jededu> Ahh ok
[10:25] <gonzo_> I think it;'s the He that takes you most of the way, rather than you taking it!
[10:25] <jededu> Would a foil do ant better with He
[10:25] <jededu> any
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[10:27] <jededu> Sorry meant H2
[10:28] Action: joeman nods at gonzo_ (RE desc of regulator)
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[10:28] <herman_> !flights
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> 03herman_: Current flights: 03EDUPIC6 duration test 10(bd34), 03PYTIN-2 434.500MHz 10(1ca2)
[10:28] <fsphil> meh, copy cats: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-space-conference-2015
[10:28] <herman_> !dail edupic6
[10:28] <PE2G> !dial EDUPIC6
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.65182 MHz, 434.64876 MHz, 434.64958 MHz, 434.6489 MHz
[10:32] <craag> jededu: Yes it would. Main issues are the possibility of it coming down still partially inflated, and the fact that you'd have to launch a lot to use the H2 cylinder up :)
[10:32] <craag> I pinged BOC an email about using their H2 generator canisters, but didn't get a reply.
[10:33] <gonzo_> I see no mention of pizza phil?
[10:33] <daveake> I wouldn't (now) even use H2 for a 100g floater
[10:34] <gonzo_> a 100gm os not a lot of H2 thiough
[10:35] <craag> It's enough to make a reasonable bang/flame though!
[10:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2HAB-11 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK2HAB-11
[10:36] <fsphil> we need a very small H2 cylinder size
[10:36] <daveake> After it came back down - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/368443/2014-10-06%2022.05.50.jpg
[10:36] <jededu> craag i see the second point I can deal with ;)
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[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03vk2hab_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=vk2hab_chase
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[10:39] <craag> The 'Genie' cylinders used with their hymera generator are ~3 and ~5.5 m3
[10:39] <craag> No idea on cost or availibility
[10:43] <gonzo_> an alarming size bang, but probably not lethal
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[10:44] <craag> 'probably not lethal' - and you'd launch it???
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[10:52] <Matt___> What would a good recovery option be for a high altitude balloon payload that's relatively cheap?
[10:53] <UpuWork> to get it back
[10:53] <UpuWork> is the best recovery option
[10:53] <UpuWork> as you don't have to buy all your bits again
[10:53] <fsphil> good and cheap rarely go together
[10:53] <UpuWork> you mean track it ?
[10:54] <Maxell> Hey a green on EDUPIC6
[10:54] <UpuWork> GSM trackers are the cheapest but there is anecdotal evidence they have about a 50% failure rate
[10:55] <UpuWork> making your own radio tracker is probably the cheapest and reliable options
[10:55] <Matt___> GPS is expensive, any radio options?
[10:55] <UpuWork> well you need GPS to know where you are
[10:55] <UpuWork> do you have a budget ?
[10:55] <Matt___> Limited, not set in stone but cheap as possible and running on a Pi
[10:55] <UpuWork> of course
[10:56] <joeman> MAtt: Spot Messeneger
[10:56] <joeman> we are using that
[10:56] <daveake> <> cheap
[10:56] <UpuWork> Spots aren't perfect
[10:56] <daveake> <> works all the time
[10:56] <UpuWork> stop working above a certain altitude
[10:56] <joeman> yeah, I know
[10:56] <joeman> recovery
[10:56] <UpuWork> and sometimes don't always start working again
[10:56] <Matt___> I'm in the UK, SPOT is apparently not too good out hee
[10:56] <UpuWork> and if it lands upside down
[10:56] <joeman> yeah
[10:56] <joeman> Gimbal
[10:56] <gonzo_> that probably des not come in the 'cheap' catagory, and still not great success rate
[10:57] <UpuWork> ok
[10:57] <UpuWork> if you enjoy electronics make a tracker yourself
[10:57] <UpuWork> the parts are about £50-60
[10:57] <joeman> I have put a buzzerin my payload
[10:57] <joeman> high pitch sound
[10:57] <UpuWork> maybe a little more with PCB costs etc
[10:57] <joeman> runs off a 900mAH batt
[10:57] <joeman> runs for 27 hrs
[10:57] <UpuWork> if you don't feel you can do it yourself the Pi In The Sky (Disclaimer - I sell it) is about £100
[10:58] <joeman> That I am using to help find it when a few hundred metres away
[10:58] <gonzo_> actually, just spoke to someone a few min ago, wants assist in setting up a load of spot units, noit for hab
[10:58] <LeoBodnar> good way to make friends if it lands on a roof
[10:58] <joeman> Not many houses around here :)
[10:58] <UpuWork> I would strongly advise trying to make one yourself its fun
[10:58] <gonzo_> you will rx a 10mw 434meg signal further that you will hear a sounder
[10:59] <Matt___> I was looking at a http://www.amazon.co.uk/Generic-NEO6MV2-Aircraft-Controller-Arduino/dp/B00H28RUSS/ but how would I get the data to myself? If an amature satellite passes, I could bounce off that...
[10:59] Action: joeman sure does hope his Spot messenger works
[10:59] <gonzo_> you can't use amateur radio airborne in the UK
[11:00] <gonzo_> and you need to have a licence for amateur
[11:00] <joeman> got a 2.5 min plan...to increase chances of getting a signal
[11:00] <Matt___> I mean when landed, it has a cheap sonar for altitude
[11:00] <UpuWork> that needs connecting to an Arduino which also needs a radio
[11:01] <gonzo_> you are not going to be able to build a useable AR satellite uplink station in a sensible size balloon
[11:01] <Matt___> I have a Nano and could set it up to transmit when the Pi tells it we've hit the ground I guess
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[11:05] <Matt___> So my only real option I guess is spot...
[11:05] <fsphil> spot is stupid money
[11:05] <fsphil> if you've got the Pi, just get the PiSky kit UpuWork mentioned
[11:06] <joeman> mmmmm
[11:06] <fsphil> or build one yourself, there's not much involved in it
[11:06] <Matt___> UpuWork: Could I have a link to PiSky?
[11:06] <joeman> You have to start somewhere
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[11:06] <fsphil> we had a spot on one launch. it didn't work
[11:07] <joeman> it has worked for other people
[11:07] <fsphil> true
[11:08] <Matt___> I would use a buzzer but if it lands near a residential area, well... Problems...
[11:08] <fsphil> I'd rather use something designed for the purpose
[11:09] <Matt___> What would I need to build one myself? A GPS, but what else?
[11:09] <fsphil> the spot was a backup on that flight so we got it back anyway
[11:09] <joeman> (I really hope it works for my flight)
[11:09] <jededu> I tried spot once just because I had one it had a lock when it launched diddnt regain it when it landed untill i cycled the power
[11:09] <fsphil> Matt___: most people use an NTX2B radio module connected to an arduino/pi to transmit the GPS data
[11:09] <joeman> if it lands near residential...wouldn't you have other probs?
[11:09] <joeman> not just sound?
[11:09] <fsphil> then a receiver on the ground connected to your computer to decode the data
[11:10] <jededu> Or PIC :)
[11:10] <fsphil> !wiki ntx2
[11:10] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Wiki page 03linkingarduinotontx2 (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[11:10] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Wiki page 03ntx2 (guides:radio_modules) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules:ntx2
[11:10] <joeman> I've noticed with a spot ...if it doesn't move
[11:10] <joeman> it thinks you are not "walking"
[11:10] <joeman> so it doesn't try and get a point
[11:10] <Matt___> But I need line of sight don't I?
[11:10] <fsphil> yes, but balloons are good at line of sight
[11:11] <joeman> I'm hoping with the jolt (hitting round) and the movement in gimbal on way down, it does try and "track"
[11:11] <fsphil> you'll be able to track it most of the way to the ground, so you'll know which area it's in
[11:11] <joeman> predict.habhub.org to get an idea matt
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[11:12] <Matt___> I could launch an FPV quadcopter to find it I guess... Seem solid?
[11:12] <craag> There's better proven technology than 'hope' joeman ;)
[11:12] <fsphil> I'd normally head towards the predicted landing area after we release the balloon
[11:12] <fsphil> then as the telemetry is updated the prediction will also update
[11:12] <fsphil> gets more accurate as it falls towards the ground
[11:13] Action: joeman smirks
[11:13] <craag> The last position from the air+landing prediction will get you within 100m or so
[11:13] <joeman> :)
[11:13] <craag> At which point you'll be able to receive it on the ground and get an exact fix
[11:13] <fsphil> yea that last prediction will usually get you close enough to hear the signal again
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> Unless it hits a body of water.
[11:14] <fsphil> well yes
[11:14] <ok1cdj> hi
[11:14] <fsphil> though if you're lucky, or called daveake, it'll come back to shore
[11:14] <daveake> hah
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> What was that payload that carried ontransmitting on the sea?
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:15] <daveake> This one http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=220
[11:15] <ok1cdj> what is expected battery life od EDUPIC6 ??
[11:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:15] <Matt___> Alright so ntx2 with GPS, thanks! (possible quadcopter :P)
[11:15] <fsphil> you can also send pictures (slowly) through the ntx2
[11:16] <craag> You will need a radio receiver to receive it
[11:16] <Matt___> SSTV
[11:16] <joeman> mmm
[11:16] <Matt___> I've done that on the Pi before
[11:16] <joeman> has anyone done a "failure" rate of Spot messengers?
[11:16] <fsphil> or SSDV*
[11:16] <joeman> (/me uses xmodem)
[11:16] <fsphil> * disclaimer: I made it
[11:17] <fsphil> There was a guy who launches west of here, landed a spot in the atlantic and watched it floating around for a few days
[11:17] <fsphil> not sure if he didn't do a prediction or just hates spots
[11:18] <fsphil> but it was neat to see it floating about
[11:18] <joeman> yeah
[11:18] <joeman> sounds cool anyhow :)
[11:19] <Matt___> How does SSDV differ from SSTV?
[11:20] <gonzo_> the germans ran a HAB at the hamradio show this year, which carries a packet repeater (AR is legal on balloons ovcer there), whjich was rebroadcasting signals from a bouy floating on the lake
[11:20] <gonzo_> though the bouy was an intentional one!
[11:20] <fsphil> ssdv is digital packets of data
[11:20] <fsphil> sstv is an analogue signal
[11:20] <fsphil> you can do either with an ntx2
[11:20] <gonzo_> packetised jpag isn'ty it phil?
[11:20] <fsphil> yea
[11:20] <gonzo_> jpeg
[11:21] <fsphil> it's basically jpeg hardened to handle data loss better
[11:21] <Matt___> Would transmitting in the UK whilst Airbourne be legal in the UK?
[11:21] <fsphil> through an ntx2 yes
[11:21] <fsphil> the ntx2 operats on the license-exempt 434mhz band
[11:21] <Matt___> Yay!
[11:21] <gonzo_> only legal on very limite number of frequencies. The 434MHz band being the most useful for us
[11:22] <Matt___> Decode via laptop then
[11:22] <fsphil> ssdv also has the advantage that data from multiple receivers can be combined
[11:22] <fsphil> and the result gets updated live on a website
[11:22] <gonzo_> 434 is shared with an amateur band, so there are lots of stations already set up to recieve it and lots of kit available
[11:23] <fsphil> but it can be quite slow. dependingon the size of the image and the datarate, it can be 3/4 minutes per image
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[11:24] <Matt___> So SSDV can be done on the Pi yh? I'm using the Raspberry Pi Camera Module. (2k res :D)
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[11:25] <DG9BFC_Sigi> hello to all
[11:25] <joeman> lo
[11:25] <fsphil> yeppers. I think most recent ssdv flights have used a pi
[11:25] <craag> Of course you shouldn't use full resolution on the downlink
[11:25] <craag> It would take aaaaages
[11:25] <fsphil> haha
[11:25] <fsphil> yea
[11:25] <fsphil> trying to find an example
[11:26] <craag> But you can save full resolution pics and send down a smaller version
[11:26] <DG9BFC_Sigi> question ... frequency and mode of edupic
[11:26] <Matt___> But it'd look good... But in all seriousness, the better the resm the easier it is to figure out where you are.
[11:26] <UpuWork> !dial EDUPIC6
[11:26] <SpacenearUS> 03UpuWork: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.64876 MHz, 434.64958 MHz, 434.6489 MHz, 434.6485 MHz, 434.6518 MHz
[11:26] <craag> My last ssdv flight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/104821768@N06/sets/72157643796363094/
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[11:27] <craag> Those took approx 2 minutes each
[11:27] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/HIPI/2014-03-22
[11:27] <fsphil> that was from a floating flight, so more images than usual
[11:28] <craag> (ignore temperature on mine, negative parsing bug)
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[11:33] <joeman> does anyone know why Spot Messengers _may_ have played up for some people?
[11:33] <joeman> some sensible theories?
[11:34] <craag> They stop working at altitude - sometimes haven't started working again on the way down.
[11:34] <craag> The payload can tumble a lot in descent
[11:34] <craag> especially if the parachute gets tangled or something
[11:35] <craag> gimbal won't help you in freefall
[11:35] <craag> Then it could land in a ditch, or in some gully that prevents sufficient gsm/spot signal.
[11:36] <craag> *gps/spot
[11:36] <jededu> DG9BFC_Sigi: 434.650, 100, 8n2
[11:37] <joeman> mmmok, so thinking if it is going ballistic...all excusable reasons.
[11:37] <joeman> just get the sense that people think they are "faulty"
[11:37] <joeman> perhaps they are "suss"
[11:37] <joeman> or "reliable" enough for trekking...but not for this "extreme" art
[11:38] <craag> It's more that there's a lot that *can* go wrong
[11:38] <Matt___> Too fast speeds
[11:38] <craag> The great thing about the radio tracking is you have realtime updates
[11:38] <craag> and if it loses gps lock on the way down - you can see that
[11:38] <craag> the sound of the radio signal can tell you if it's tumbling a lot
[11:39] <craag> and you can use a directional antenna to at least work out which direction it's in
[11:39] <craag> A lot of the guys doing commercial or expensive flights use a spot backup
[11:39] <mattbrejza> s/backup//
[11:40] <daveake> hah
[11:40] <daveake> I just use a second radio tracker
[11:40] <craag> But having the radio at least in addition - gives you the realtime feed - throughout the flight
[11:40] <craag> blood pressure--
[11:40] <craag> s/--/--;/
[11:41] <joeman> well, I think having a good plan in place...where you want to be in a flight is a good idea
[11:41] <joeman> can't completely rely upon one thing all the time
[11:41] <craag> Oh yes. Just go for the predicted landing spot is what we usually do.
[11:41] <joeman> I think you have to think of a backup strategy...and give yourself a fighting chance...make your own luck
[11:42] <UpuWork> sory Matt___ was on the phone
[11:42] <UpuWork> www.pi-in-the-sky.com
[11:43] <Matt___> ty
[11:47] <mattbrejza> oh all those pits went quickely
[11:47] <jededu> Looking at habrotate im fed up with climbing out of the window
[11:48] <jededu> witha apair of stilsons
[11:49] <craag> :)
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[11:49] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[11:49] <craag> cm13g09: pong
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[11:53] <DG9BFC_Sigi> 434.650 rtty 100baud 8n2 ... ok ... i will try that ... thanks
[11:53] <Matt___LostConec> fsphil: I've downloaded the SSTDV and run the 'make' command, now what?
[11:57] <UpuWork> yup mattbrejza
[11:57] <UpuWork> got some new ones coming
[11:58] <mattbrejza> for A/B+ versions?
[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i do a lot of weather sonde hunting ... for that we developed a toll that takes the prediction from habhub (kml file) ... shifts that to the actual decoded position ... and then calculates parachute "quality" and with the result stretches or compresses that prediction
[11:58] <daveake> that would be a logical assumption :)
[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> uup
[11:58] <DG9BFC_Sigi> tool
[11:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> at last edupic6 coming over the downs wow thats a slow rise
[12:00] <DG9BFC_Sigi> with that tool we can do a landing prediction right after burst ... and be the first at the EXACT landing spot (plus minus a few hundret feet)
[12:01] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi:i do this too
[12:01] <UpuWork> yes mattbrejza
[12:01] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: but i run the predictor live in teh car :0-)
[12:01] <Darkside> :-)
[12:01] <Darkside> based on the latest data
[12:01] <UpuWork> you can't back power it like you use to do
[12:01] <mattbrejza> although no need now?
[12:01] <DG9BFC_Sigi> yes we also run it in the car LIVE ... with a 19 inch at the dashboard
[12:01] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: http://rfhead.net/?p=550
[12:01] <UpuWork> yeah we need some way of running it from 4 batteries
[12:01] <DG9BFC_Sigi> wireless keyboard etc
[12:01] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: are they launching RS41s your way yet?
[12:02] <Darkside> or still RS92SGPs
[12:02] <UpuWork> that could be 2.8 -> 6.8V
[12:02] <DG9BFC_Sigi> no rs41 yet
[12:02] <Darkside> same here :(
[12:02] <Darkside> i really want one to hack around with it
[12:02] <UpuWork> didn't want to move to 6 cells
[12:02] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we too :-)
[12:02] <UpuWork> so we've found an nice buck boost that does 2.5A
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[12:02] <UpuWork> which means its got some overhead for addon boards too
[12:03] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: i was hoping to get one before bev comes over to adelaide for summer
[12:03] <craag> Can't power the pi easily off a lipo now without a stepup :/
[12:03] <UpuWork> the prototype had a TPS61202 on it
[12:03] <UpuWork> no once this is done craag I'm making a battery pack board for it
[12:03] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: so we can work cracking the protocol while he's here
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[12:03] <mattbrejza> ive been using ADP1607 instead of the TPS now
[12:03] <UpuWork> but the B+ was really close to the max spec when running from the TPS61202
[12:04] <mattbrejza> (although thats for trackers, wont run the pi)
[12:04] <UpuWork> yeah needs 5V now
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> we use a map soft that has 3 inputs ... sonde (live), car, predicted point (calculated live), and aimpoint (from last few seconds down to ground)
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> typo
[12:04] <DG9BFC_Sigi> 4 inputs
[12:05] <mattbrejza> oh also the adp part wont output >3.3V
[12:05] <UpuWork> yep that too
[12:05] <mattbrejza> but its the cheapest part on farnell that looked like it could power a grumpy GPS at 3.3V
[12:05] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: cool, similar here
[12:05] <mattbrejza> and being analog devices everything is happy
[12:06] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: we developed it for our regular balloon launches, but i adapted it to the sondes fairly easily, makes hunting them a lot ewasier
[12:06] <DG9BFC_Sigi> it is already cracked from other guys :-)
[12:06] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: what, teh RS41? i havent seen much about it yet
[12:06] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: has anyone documented it yet?
[12:07] <DG9BFC_Sigi> no .. it is NOT PUBLIC ... but it is cracked
[12:07] <Darkside> blah
[12:07] <Darkside> this is the kind of situation where you release the docs online
[12:07] <Darkside> so people can actually do stuff with it
[12:07] <Darkside> vaisala can get stuffed
[12:07] <DG9BFC_Sigi> psssst ... i already can decode them
[12:07] <Darkside> wont help me if they start launching them here
[12:08] <DG9BFC_Sigi> thats right ...
[12:08] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: what i want to know is if they are using a standard Si4032 packet format
[12:08] <Darkside> or if they are doing their own thing
[12:08] <Darkside> like, could i get a RFM22B, set it up correctly, and hav e it spit out the packets (which i would of course have to pull apart)
[12:09] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i can not tell you ... i got the decoder from a friend ... he knows whats inside
[12:09] <Darkside> tell him to put it online or osmething
[12:09] <Darkside> i dont see the point of keeping it secret
[12:09] <Darkside> like, what does he thing will happen? vaisala will go after him?
[12:09] <DG9BFC_Sigi> dont know ... maybe because it is still in beta
[12:09] <Darkside> i was the #1 google result for vaisala reverse engineering for a few years
[12:10] <Darkside> i never heard from them
[12:11] <fsphil> Matt___LostConec: to encode an image you'd do something like ssdv -e image.jpeg image.bin
[12:11] <Darkside> anyway, i havent heard if they're going to switch to RS41s here yet
[12:11] <Darkside> when they do i'll definitely want to be recovering a few
[12:11] <Darkside> i want to try and write my own firmware for them
[12:11] <fsphil> Matt___LostConec: the image.bin file would contain a series of 256 byte packets you'd transmit over the ntx2
[12:11] <Darkside> use them as regular launch trackers
[12:11] <DG9BFC_Sigi> maybe they use the packeting from the chip ... i do not know
[12:13] <DG9BFC_Sigi> would an audio (wave) help you to find out?? you could feed that audio to an fm transmitter and then use the rfm22 and see what comes out
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[12:14] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: probably wont work so well
[12:14] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: it'd have to be an IQ recording
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[12:14] <Darkside> then i can replay that out of a hackrf
[12:14] <DG9BFC_Sigi> no ... it has to be baseband (no filtering)
[12:14] <Darkside> yeah
[12:15] <Darkside> i know you can decode the GFSK with a FM Receiver, and rtechnically you should be able to transmit too
[12:15] <DG9BFC_Sigi> so a good non filtere audio would do the job?
[12:15] <Darkside> but i'd have to find a transmitter in which i can bypass the preemphasis
[12:15] <Darkside> an IQ recording is best
[12:15] <Darkside> i.e. from a RTLSDR or something
[12:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> easy ... feed the audio direct to the transmiter of a dfm or rs92
[12:16] <Darkside> not urgent
[12:16] <Darkside> er
[12:16] <Darkside> the rs92 accepts digital data
[12:16] <Darkside> it has a synchronous digital input
[12:16] <gonzo_> go in via the 9600bd packet feed?
[12:16] <Darkside> gonzo_: yeah i could do that
[12:16] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i have a wave ... from rtl ... but audio not iq
[12:17] <Darkside> yeah i doubt ill be able to reproduce the transmitted signal well enough using tghat and a FM Transmitter
[12:17] <Darkside> anyway, im not in a hurry
[12:17] <Darkside> from what i hear they have a huge stock of RS92's here
[12:17] <gonzo_> somer of the yaesu's have a data input. which is for rtty etc. not sure if that if filtered though
[12:17] <Darkside> teh closest i'll get to a RS41 anytime soon will be when i go to new zealand in jan, where they're apparently launching them
[12:17] <DG9BFC_Sigi> dfm can be hacked easy to feed audio in it (or grab the audio out of it
[12:18] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: they dont launch them here
[12:18] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: its always been RS92's
[12:18] <Darkside> DG9BFC_Sigi: and for many years (until about 2 months ago) it was purely analog radiosondes
[12:18] <Darkside> so if we wanted to get one, we had to go DF it
[12:18] <Darkside> (which was really good fun though)
[12:19] <Darkside> bbl
[12:20] <DG9BFC_Sigi> i am guessing that with a good wave you can send that to a 9k6 packet tx ... and try the decoding with rfm22 .... that would be a good start
[12:21] <DG9BFC_Sigi> here we have 4 launch sites close plus anoter 2 that are also sometimes in reach (fly to us
[12:22] <DG9BFC_Sigi> 2 from dw and 2 from military
[12:23] <DG9BFC_Sigi> mil sometimes made double lauches (dfm and rs92 on same parachute) ... on a lucky day i got 8 sondes in 6 hours (4 pairs)
[12:25] <DG9BFC_Sigi> and from 100-150 sonde upwards you do not count them anymore :-)
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[12:29] <richardeoin> mattbrejza: I've been using the ADP1607 for our trackers too
[12:29] <mattbrejza> ah cool
[12:29] <richardeoin> Farnell say they olny have one left in stock though http://uk.farnell.com/analog-devices/adp1607acpzn-r7/boost-0-8-3-3v-2mhz-1-8-3-3v-6lfcsp/dp/2254940 :-(
[12:29] <richardeoin> *only
[12:29] <mattbrejza> ill sell you my spare one for £20 ;)
[12:30] <mattbrejza> 3000 will be available for delivery on 14 Dec, 2014
[12:30] <mattbrejza> not too bad lead time then
[12:30] <UpuWork> seems to be par for the course for components
[12:30] <mattbrejza> you could probably sample from AD if you were desperate
[12:31] <mattbrejza> mouser have it, but its more expensive there
[12:31] <richardeoin> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/ADP1607ACPZN-R7/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv9Q1JI0Mo%2ftc1J%252bhj9wNo3
[12:31] <theRealSIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[12:31] <adamgreig> lol
[12:32] <UpuWork> heh
[12:32] <mattbrejza> the tps61200 works fine but its efficiency is a bit shit
[12:33] <mattbrejza> needs more parts too
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[12:36] <UpuWork> http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3526
[12:36] <UpuWork> is whats on the pavas
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[12:37] <jededu> This is what i use on EDUPIC http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61016.pdf
[12:38] <mattbrejza> that LTC part looks very similar to the AD part
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[12:41] <richardeoin> mmm, the reference designs are almost identical
[12:41] <richardeoin> not pin compatible though
[12:41] <mattbrejza> yea that would have been nice
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[12:59] <LeoBodnar> good illustration of UBLOX downloading ephemerides every half hour http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/M0XER-4?range=day
[13:00] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:00] <Laurenceb> wtf
[13:00] <mattbrejza> not always that severe though
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[13:18] <DutchMillbt> Hi Maxell back at the shack?
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[13:27] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: yeap uploading all fine here :)
[13:27] <Maxell> Very stable TX!
[13:27] <Maxell> TXCO right?
[13:27] <Maxell> afk sec
[13:28] <Laurenceb> PYTIN ....
[13:28] <Laurenceb> some sort of reference?
[13:30] <jededu> Maxell you mean EDUPIC6
[13:31] <Maxell> jededu: yep, it's spot on when coming back on from 2 minute sleep
[13:33] <jededu> Its an MTX2 Transmitter
[13:34] <jededu> It has a TCXO
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[13:42] <Maxell> jededu: nice nice :)
[13:44] <jiffe> what does the b64 use for a radio?
[13:49] <mattbrejza> si4464 or similar
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 030x03 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=0x03
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[13:58] <DutchMillbt> Hallo NL trackers wie gaat er zaterdag naar de DvdRA ?
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[14:00] <ulfr> O.o
[14:00] <ulfr> hexidecimal callsigns?
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[14:07] <Laurenceb> http://airspy.com/
[14:07] <Laurenceb> looks nice
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[14:19] <Matt___> Hey, back again, I looked at the NTX2B but I already have a RFM22B-S2. Would that also work? I know the board works at that range as it is used on the $50Sat (Eagle 2) satellite.
[14:20] <realflash> Can someone tell me exactly which frequency they are tracking EDUPIC6 on?
[14:20] <fsphil> the RFM22B is not very reliable
[14:20] <fsphil> it's very sensitive to temperature
[14:20] <fsphil> which can make it very difficult to decode
[14:21] <fsphil> and will occasionally just die for no reason
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[14:21] <UpuWork> realflash 434.650
[14:21] <UpuWork> the RFM22B is ok in space but in the harsh conditions of HAB its not faired so well
[14:21] <PH3V> Hi DutchMill .. IK ga met een groepje uit West Brabant. Meet and greet?
[14:22] <UpuWork> it does work but they can be super drifty and can freeze up and stop transmitting
[14:22] <realflash> Bum. Must be too weak now then. One of these days I am going to decode a packet.
[14:22] <UpuWork> my beutiful assistant Leo will shortly post an image graphically showing an RFM22B in action
[14:22] Action: UpuWork pokes LeoBodnar
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[14:24] <fsphil> haha
[14:24] <UpuWork> can't get the staff these days
[14:24] <fsphil> I think he's drifted off...
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[14:25] <UpuWork> "Yes, the performance was solid http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/HABAXE1.png"
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[14:25] <fsphil> ideally those lines should be perfectly vertical
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[14:25] <Matt___> That looks like doppler shift to me..
[14:25] <fsphil> yea, but in this case just temperature
[14:25] <UpuWork> yeah its not mean to look like that :)
[14:26] <UpuWork> I'll grab a screen shot of EDUPIC6 in a sec so you cna see what its meant to look like
[14:26] <DL1VV> Does somebody have a good tip where to get barrier foil (heptax etc.) from? balloonkits.com does not seem to be active any more....!?
[14:27] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/29LccvL.png
[14:27] <UpuWork> also radio horizon lol
[14:27] <fsphil> you with your mountain
[14:28] <UpuWork> <3 BladeRF :)
[14:28] <fsphil> and that
[14:28] <fsphil> soon
[14:28] <UpuWork> mind you Airspy looks better value
[14:28] <UpuWork> for recieving
[14:29] <fsphil> yea definitly
[14:29] <fsphil> should give the FCD some nice competition
[14:30] <fsphil> I can't use the FCD on any of my machines anymore
[14:30] <craag> how come?
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[14:34] <Matt___> Phil, what do I do with the SSDV bin file? I'm far better at hardware than software...
[14:36] <LeoBodnar> waaat? [14:22] <UpuWork> my beutiful assistant Leo will shortly post an image graphically showing an RFM22B in action
[14:36] <LeoBodnar> ah that
[14:36] <LeoBodnar> yup that was solid
[14:36] <UpuWork> comedy is all about something
[14:36] <UpuWork> escapes me now
[14:37] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/HABAXE1.png
[14:37] <UpuWork> timing that sit
[14:37] <LeoBodnar> note the position of red lines
[14:37] <LeoBodnar> this is where previous transmission finished
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[14:48] <fsphil> craag: there seems to be a bug in the way they did USB, it constantly reports not enough bandwidth when both the audio and control parts are used
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[14:50] <craag> I've had it crash when tuning too fast
[14:50] <craag> and occasionally jsut crash anyway
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[14:50] <craag> about every 10 minutes or so
[14:51] <craag> requires stop/start in sdr# to get it going again
[14:53] <craag> Not used it much in linux with the pa resampling bug
[14:53] <craag> although that might be fixed in utopic...
[14:53] <realflash> The bug is fixed in PulseAudio 5. I have proved it.
[14:54] <DutchMillbt> PH3V Ja goed idee 12.00 - 13.00 High Altitude Tracker meet & greet
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[14:54] <realflash> You can upgrade PulseAudio from 4 to 5 in any version of debian-based distros fairly easy.
[14:54] <Maxell> PH3V: DutchMillbt: was wel het plan maar ga toch maar even naar de open dag van een vervolgstudie. Iets belangrijker dan meuk kopen :)
[14:55] <craag> Yep it's been fixed upstream for a while, just a q of whether debian has pushed it though.
[14:55] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: wel hfcc verkoping vanavond :D
[14:55] <craag> I like to keep vanilla as possible if i can
[14:55] <craag> saves a lot of time
[14:55] <realflash> I offered to put instructions on the Wiki, but nobody answered telling me how I could edit pages on the WIki
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[14:55] <DutchMillbt> Yep Maxell study frist :-)
[14:55] <craag> Ah - you need to get someone to approve your account
[14:55] <craag> ask in #habhub
[14:56] <realflash> I suspected as much
[14:56] <craag> (once you've made a wiki account)
[14:56] <UpuWork> I can do it
[14:56] <realflash> Thanks.
[14:56] <realflash> I'll go check what my wiki account is...
[14:57] <UpuWork> realflash
[14:57] <UpuWork> :)
[14:57] <DutchMillbt> Maxell hfcc gaat niet lukken vanavond
[14:57] <UpuWork> you can post now
[14:57] <Matt___> Should I get the NTX2B 434.075MHZ or 434.650MHZ? Does it matter? (I live in the UK if that helps)
[14:57] <UpuWork> where are you getting it Matt___ ?
[14:57] <PH3V> @Dutchmill .. Idee waar af te spreken? 2 of 70 cmFrequentie?
[14:57] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: ah, no problem :)
[14:58] <UpuWork> Matt___ answer is neither get it from here http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=92
[14:58] <jededu> upu how are you still receiving EDUPIC6 !! :)
[14:58] <Matt___> Radiometrixstore.com
[14:58] <UpuWork> nah get it from me
[14:58] <UpuWork> and see your private message
[14:58] <UpuWork> you can change the frequency on mine
[14:58] <jededu> Its Cheaper from upu :)
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[14:58] <UpuWork> no idea jededu
[14:58] <Matt___> How do you private message?
[14:58] <realflash> Err, yep, it seems it is realflash
[14:58] <UpuWork> are you using the web client ?
[14:59] <Matt___> yh, freenode
[14:59] <UpuWork> yes there should be a new tab at the top I htink
[15:00] <DutchMillbt> PH3V rond 12.00 in de koffiecorner... hang wel een poster op ;-) zal via twitter en e-mail een oproep doen ..
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[15:07] <fsphil> Matt___: the bin file just contains the packets. each are 256 bytes long, so you can either send the lot in one go, or send each 256 bytes with other data between them
[15:08] <fsphil> it's common to send some gps data every 3 or 4 image packets
[15:08] <PH3V> @ DutchMill .. Is goed! Leuk initiatief.
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[15:15] <fsphil> craag: that PA bug seems to be gone on fedora
[15:15] <fsphil> ubuntu should have the fix by now too
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[15:33] <G8JNJ> !flights
[15:33] <SpacenearUS> 03G8JNJ: Current flights: 03EDUPIC6 duration test 10(bd34), 03PYTIN-2 434.500MHz 10(1ca2)
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[15:58] <UpuWork> Can still see it jededu but not decoding now
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[16:03] <jededu> upu nice setup :)
[16:04] <jededu> I lost it just after the blue line 15 ele diamond slightly elevated
[16:04] <fsphil> yagi buddies
[16:05] <jededu> lol :)
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[16:07] <jededu> oo EDUPIC is getting very cold
[16:07] <edmoore> SCINCE
[16:07] <edmoore> SPELING
[16:08] <jededu> Thats a rapid drop in temp
[16:09] <edmoore> is it on the way down?
[16:09] <edmoore> they can get really v cool on descent
[16:10] <jededu> Just cooling effect i think alt is quite stable
[16:11] <edmoore> i'll look at the map instead of talking speculatively
[16:11] <edmoore> sorry
[16:11] <edmoore> also sorry again for misunderstanding what you'd said in a way that lead you to read me saying that your low power performance was crap
[16:12] <DutchMillbt> !dial EDUPIC6
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> 03DutchMillbt: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.649 MHz, 10.1 MHz, 434.6486 MHz, 434.64876 MHz, 434.64958 MHz, 434.6518 MHz, 434.65069 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.6507 MHz, 434.5 MHz
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[16:13] <jededu> Ok edmoore np
[16:13] <edmoore> it's good going to get everything non-gps related into 1mA
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[16:16] <tweetBot> @DutchMillbt: High Altitude Balloon #ukhas EDUPIC6 in the air flightpath NL- D 434.650MHz ssb rtty see http://t.co/WLm484fRhv #hamr #hamradio
[16:18] <Bob_Saget> is there a cli version of dl-fldigi i could run on a raspberry pi like device?
[16:20] <edmoore> i don't believe so, though it's a good idea
[16:21] <fsphil> someone did get dl-fldigi working on the pi, but they didn't say how - just dumped a binary file to github
[16:21] <edmoore> there are probably cli rtty decoders
[16:22] <edmoore> and then a little python script could parse the log
[16:22] <fsphil> tuning it would be a pain
[16:25] <edmoore> truedat
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[16:39] <Maxell> DX... 16.74km lol
[16:39] <Maxell> ~23 degreeg.
[16:40] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: get the bb guns :D
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[16:47] <jededu> Dead ?
[16:48] <jededu> Maybe not :)
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[16:55] <lz1dev> !hysplit run edupic6
[16:55] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[16:58] <lz1dev> !hysplit edupic6
[16:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT for 03EDUPIC6 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141030-16_194143_EDUPIC6.gif
[16:58] <lz1dev> low altitude = horrible :(
[16:59] <Rebounder> 7,sg l
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[16:59] <Rebounder> m
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[17:02] <lz1dev> are you an old aprs igate? :)
[17:03] <pc1pcl-away> Looks like it's making landfall at Wassenaar-beach ;)
[17:06] <Rebounder> lz1dev: i'm a compressed keyboard
[17:07] <Maxell> 6615 meter. still going strong
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[17:10] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC6,494,17:09:34,5208.58258,00423.31938,08,6607.5,0,0,-21.25,1.25*752 <-- RED
[17:11] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC6,495,17:10:34,5208.47527,00423.69141,10,6620.9,0,0,-21,1.24*5285 <-- RED
[17:11] <Maxell> grml
[17:11] <pc1pcl-away> yes, I've had a few of them come out with a wrong checksum where just seemed like the checksum itself was cut short..
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[17:13] <pc1pcl-away> nice and green again now.
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[17:15] <det_> !dial edupic6
[17:15] <Maxell> pc1pcl-away: hfcc verkoping? :o
[17:15] <SpacenearUS> 03det_: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC6 10(bd34): 03434.64958 MHz, 10.1 MHz, 434.64876 MHz, 434.65188 MHz, 434.65069 MHz, 434.6486 MHz, 434.649 MHz
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[17:25] <pc1pcl-away> Maxell: Nope, moet koken, kindertjes passen. XYL is naar een of ander jubelieum-diner
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[17:30] <jededu> Gone ?
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[17:33] <pc1pcl-away> Nothing heard for 10 minutes :(
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[17:34] <jededu> Something didd'nt like the cold!
[17:34] <Maxell> pc1pcl-away: ah, that happens :)
[17:34] <Maxell> $$EDUPIC6,502,17:23:34,5207.02309,00428.53550,08,6609.7,0,0,-20.75,1.26*9944 confirmed last TX here too
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[17:53] <jededu> Its probably the RTC thats packed up it may wake up
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:28] <ulfr> hi
[18:30] <mfa298> Bob_Saget: I've got mattbrejza's java rtty decoder running on a Pi and decoding a payload (although only limited testing)
[18:30] <mfa298> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/decoder/
[18:30] <mfa298> not cli, but it seemed to work
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[19:00] <Dominica> Hello I'm reading the HAB sites and UKHAS documents since a few days,
[19:01] <Dominica> Can I ask two thing?
[19:01] <edmoore> don;t ask to ask, just ask
[19:02] <edmoore> a common irc saying ^
[19:02] <Dominica> sorry, 12m not sure anybody here, because of silence :D
[19:02] <Dominica> Ok i will
[19:02] <edmoore> if people want to answer they will
[19:02] <edmoore> even they don;t they won't
[19:02] <edmoore> no promises given in advance
[19:02] <edmoore> that's how it goes
[19:03] <Dominica> 1. 30" Foil baloons looking perfect for me, because I'm design and manufacturing small electronics including telemetry since few years.
[19:03] <Dominica> I dont need a NOTAM or CAA connection to release them right?
[19:04] <Dominica> Because of smaller than 2 meters dimentions
[19:05] <LazyLeopard> Where are you planning to launch from?
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[19:06] <Dominica> 2. I tried to track EDUPIC6 baloon today but didn't. Any simple DIY antenna suggestion for RTLSDR?
[19:06] <Dominica> I'm living in Canterbury,Kent
[19:06] <Dominica> So, My balloons will left the country shortly.
[19:07] <LazyLeopard> Right.
[19:08] <edmoore> you could make a yagi or a colinear
[19:08] <edmoore> loads of designs for both on the net
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[19:09] <Dominica> Thank you, I made an Helix and dipole but didnt success.
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[19:11] <edmoore> you should get a filter for your rtl-sdr
[19:11] <edmoore> otherwise they're really too wide to pick out a hab
[19:12] <Dominica> any filter suggestion?
[19:12] <edmoore> if you want someone to suggest a suitable pre-amp/filter just count down from 5
[19:13] <edmoore> sigh, channel failed
[19:13] <edmoore> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=83
[19:13] <mikestir> he didn't do the countdown
[19:13] <Dominica> Sorry I didnt know the rules :D
[19:14] <edmoore> it's ok :)
[19:14] <Dominica> Oh great a HAB store, Thank you very much
[19:14] <Dominica> Bookmarked
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[19:16] <mikestir> so you are right about the foils being ok with no notam, but you have very little lift capability so the total mass of your payload is critical. you really need to aim for under 25g all in
[19:17] <Dominica> I can make a tracker less than 15-20gr, no problem
[19:17] <mikestir> you're all set then
[19:18] <mikestir> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html <- the 36" qualatex ones are well proven
[19:18] <Dominica> Is the GPS a must? Or can I release a beacon only?
[19:19] <mikestir> it's nice to know where it is
[19:19] <Dominica> Thank you mikestir
[19:19] <mikestir> and the new MAX8s are pretty cheap anyway
[19:20] <Dominica> Yes I will order them to night. But I have a lot of telemetry module here. And I want to start to learn with GPSless loads if it possible.
[19:20] <edmoore> there's not much point really
[19:20] <edmoore> it bleeps on the table, it'll bleep in the air
[19:20] <edmoore> not really proven anything
[19:21] <mikestir> what are you planning on using for telemetry?
[19:21] <Dominica> There are my designs: http://www.flytron.com/16-openlrs-accessories
[19:21] <edmoore> can;t test the range of the radios, or see if the balloon floats/bursts, or anything
[19:22] <Dominica> I'm designing RC remote systems and FPV eequipment
[19:23] <Dominica> I hale a lot of failed design boards. So, I can use them a balloon telemetry. OK, I will add GPS. It will be better
[19:23] <mikestir> it seems you have a lot of illegal transmitters on there
[19:24] <mikestir> because of the extreme ranges achievable from a balloon there is a general view that one should stick within the rules for the band of operation
[19:24] <Dominica> Yes it was. We relocated our company to Uk in this summer. So, they are out of stock now
[19:25] <edmoore> yeah, just think what you could do with 7W..
[19:25] <Dominica> I can fix the RFM22Bs for 10mW no problem.
[19:25] <edmoore> 100baseT
[19:25] <edmoore> with a wet noodle as the rx
[19:25] <mikestir> 1080p h.264
[19:25] <Dominica> May be I can enable it on the Russia :D
[19:26] <mikestir> just beware the RFM22Bs are very drifty at low temperatures
[19:27] <Dominica> Yes I know, I'm just reading and thinking now. And trying to track others :/
[19:28] <Dominica> I will try your advice and buy a filter and make a colinear
[19:28] <Dominica> Thank you
[19:29] <edmoore> the watson w-50 is popular here
[19:29] <edmoore> off the shelf
[19:29] <edmoore> but v good for the money
[19:29] <mikestir> or the diamond x-50, or the moonraker version
[19:29] <mikestir> I think they're all basically the same
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[19:31] <Dominica> 1.7m one is ok?
[19:31] <Dominica> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAMOND-X-50-COLINEAR-144-430MHz-1-7-M-lONG-/111156035824?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19e16a80f0
[19:31] <mikestir> sounds about right. the shorter one is the X-30
[19:33] <Dominica> Thanks :)
[19:34] <DutchMillbt> Drove around in the area here, but no signal from EDUPIC6 ...
[19:36] <DutchMillbt> lets hope EDUPIC6 comes back to life..
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[19:37] <Bob_Saget> mfa298: thank you i'll check it out
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[19:53] <deano86> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2591860/UFO-secret-fighter-jet-The-mysterious-triple-triangle-craft-pictured-flying-Texasre.html
[19:53] <deano86> This isnt B-64 is it hehe
[19:54] <ulfr> heh
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[19:55] <deano86> if you check the map.. its roughly over texas now :P
[19:56] <mikestir> wow that was close - you nearly rickrolled me into going on the daily mail website
[19:56] <mikestir> phew
[19:58] <deano86> haha, I hate the daily mail but I thought it was funny as B-64 is currently flying past Texas where a "ufo" or secret military jet is passing by
[19:59] <deano86> I hate newspapers in general, its all scare mongering
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[20:01] <mikestir> isn't there some website that scrapes the daily mail site for causes and cures of cancer and plots a venn diagram, with the size of the overlap being significantly non-zero
[20:02] <myself> that would actually be really amusing
[20:02] <deano86> i have never heard of this?!
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> :DF
[20:06] <mikestir> I don't think I imagined it but I don't have a url unfortunately
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[20:37] <day> i sometimes see civilian cars with giant antennas on the roof. I always assumed they just 'played' trucker aka CB'd around, but something tells me they are doing something else :/
[20:38] <ulfr> it's the NSA.
[20:38] <day> last guy i saw was a polish guy last week with an 1+m antenna on the roof crusing through west germany
[20:38] <myself> You might've heard of this thing called amateur radio..
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[20:39] <myself> look up "screwdriver antenna", see if that matches what you're seeing.
[20:39] <ulfr> Did you identify his nationality by his mustache?
[20:39] <day> myself: but in a car? I mean thats what i always assumed but it sounds a bit strange if i think about it :/
[20:39] <myself> Why not? Lots of people operate HF Mobile.
[20:39] <ulfr> I have 9 antennas on my car iirc.
[20:39] <myself> (that's another good search term.)
[20:40] <myself> Yeah... https://www.google.com/search?q=hf+mobile&tbm=isch
[20:40] <day> nah he had just one long flexible antenna on the roof
[20:40] <myself> Oh. That's probably VHF then, no screwdriver needed. :P
[20:41] <ulfr> could have been a 5/8 lambda antenna.
[20:41] <mfa298> I've got a 2/70 magmount on my car and there's a small CB antenna on the back seat (and CB in the boot as a just in case)
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> did you ever see a ham car? :)
[20:41] <ulfr> http://tinyurl.com/nzxvg2x <- some antennas.
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> I first saw one when I got to ham radio at lake constance with a ham
[20:42] <day> ulfr: looks like a rc car :D
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> loads of cable and some handsets in the passenger seat area
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:42] <Upu> that is a HAB recovery vehicle
[20:42] <ulfr> day: it's an upscaled version.
[20:42] <mfa298> CB isn't trucker radio, it's citizen band so can be used by anyone (might need a license in some places but generally no real knowledge required to use it)
[20:42] <ulfr> Upu: has been used as such. ;)
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> ulfr, nice!
[20:42] <mikestir> http://www.qsl.net/w0jt/2004-08-UHF/DSCF1034.JPG
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> HAB in Iceland?
[20:42] <Upu> I went across a glacier in Iceland in somethign similar
[20:42] <Upu> you're all insane up there
[20:42] <mikestir> is that your car upu?
[20:42] <day> i just dont get what do you need those things for in a car?
[20:42] <myself> We've all seen this guy at ham fests: http://lhspodcast.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pork4.jpg
[20:42] <day> just having fun talking?
[20:42] <Upu> haha I wish
[20:42] <ulfr> Upu: yep.
[20:43] <myself> Same reason you'd need a telephone, in a car. Seriously. Aren't telephones supposed to be bolted to the wall?
[20:43] <day> i started to think they are all out there to harvest weather balloon payloads xD
[20:43] <ulfr> myself: hahaha...
[20:43] <myself> I dunno, man, some people are weird. Next thing they'll have restaurants with windows on the side to sell food to people in their cars.
[20:43] <craag> hehe
[20:44] Action: craag used to work in a drive-through pharmacy
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.livefromiceland.is/webcams/austurvollur/ :)
[20:44] <day> myself: with a phone i can call a specific person. And i mostly try to avoid using a phone in my car.
[20:44] <mfa298> day: generally people with radios (CB / Amateur) use them to communicate with others - useful if you're travelling in convoy.
[20:44] <mikestir> I actually used the local repeater the other day to find out why I was stuck in traffic
[20:44] <mikestir> someone looked it up on the internet for me
[20:44] <mikestir> I could have just used my phone, but old school ftw
[20:44] <ulfr> How nice.
[20:44] <myself> What I want to know is where does the driver actually sit? http://s422.photobucket.com/user/Kawamazing/media/RFNut4.jpg.html
[20:44] <mfa298> also in some places (UK) it's illegal to use a phone (unless it's totally hands free), you can still use a radio as long as you do it safely.
[20:45] <ulfr> hahaha
[20:45] <myself> (I love the little bits of wire loom to "tidy up" the wiring here and there. That's a nice touch.)
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:45] <day> mfa298: really? its the same in germany. i expected the same rules would apply to radios~....god i love laws :P
[20:45] <mikestir> I hope those yellow switches fire the missiles
[20:46] <myself> I think they're for a smokescreen to keep the ladies away, who would otherwise be unable to resist such a stud.
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[20:46] <day> do trucks even still have radio equipment installed?
[20:46] <fsphil> lots here do
[20:46] <fsphil> yet I never hear them on the radio
[20:47] <mikestir> and cinemas: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20643725
[20:47] <Upu> 2014-10-28 10:43:37.485 M0UPU-1 T OK1BLG-9>US4QQQ,M0UPU-1*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-2:`wJ&p,Ru/`"5.}yaesu VX-8 145.500 .-_
[20:47] <Upu> yes... :)
[20:47] <mfa298> day: radios are exempt from the blanket ban as various organisations need to use them when driving (emergency services and similar)
[20:48] <day> gosh. i think i need a license.. i need one of those important looking antennas :P
[20:48] <myself> you can listen without a license, that's just for transmit :)
[20:48] <ulfr> oh dear: He said: "I didn't realise I was supposed to be wearing a seatbelt in a truck. I always wear one in the car.
[20:48] <day> myself: either full or non
[20:49] <myself> Oh sure, because trucks can't crash. Obviously.
[20:49] <mfa298> if you go down the CB route you may not need a license or the only requirements are writing your name and paying some money. Amateur radio needs a bit more study to get.
[20:49] <myself> CB depends on the country, in the US there's no writing or money. :)
[20:50] <myself> CB is just plain open. you're expected to follow some rules that nobody cares about or enforces. :/
[20:50] <day> im from germany. you cant leave your house without a license~
[20:50] <mfa298> UK used to need you to pay some money (and probably fill out a form with name and address) but that's not needed any more.
[20:50] <myself> Oh, well, you could always move. :) Houses in Detroit are cheap!
[20:50] <day> oh im tempted :p
[20:51] <day> but i heard finding a job isnt easy in detroid
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[20:51] <day> probably the reason why the houses are cheap :D
[20:51] <myself> Depends on whether you have an engineering degree... I know several companies that are vacuuming up new staff as fast as they can.
[20:52] <day> i do
[20:52] <myself> most folks in the city don't, so...
[20:52] <myself> there ya go :)
[20:52] <day> but just a half one so to say :p
[20:53] <myself> Probably easier just to get your amateur radio license at home, though.
[20:53] <day> oh its not just the cb license. Your gun laws are nice as well :> Takes a year here until they let you own a gun.
[20:53] <ulfr> Depends on the exam.
[20:54] <ulfr> I'm not sure that they're great. But they're quite "open"
[20:55] <day> actually i almost scored a internship close to detroit. but they didnt pay enough :(
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[20:58] <day> btw. what does CB is not enforced but other frequencies are mean?
[20:58] <day> Are they actually locating people and visiting them? (even if they didnt do anythin suspicious?)
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> CB has some limits on emitted power and spectrum purity
[20:58] <mfa298> licenses, bands, power levels, exams tend to be based on requirements and skills
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[20:59] <mfa298> CB is low power, commercial approved equipment (radios and antennas) and limited frequencies (at least in the UK - and it will be similar accross EU)
[21:00] <mfa298> CB is designed for just communicating with other people.
[21:00] <ulfr> I wouldn't call 25W low power...
[21:00] <day> im guessing a baofeng uv5r does not classify as cb? :D
[21:00] <myself> in the US at least, enforcement is all complaint-based. On the ham bands, so-called "amateur observers" will make reports if you're making a mess of things. On the citizens' band, everybody pretty much looks the other way unless you're being really heinous.
[21:00] <ulfr> cb is just frequency spectrum/ channels
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[21:01] <mfa298> Amateur radio has exams to get the license, but much higher powers, more bands, able to design and build own stuff and is aimed at experimentation
[21:01] <mfa298> ulfr: only 4W for CB in the UK - compared to 400W for AR
[21:01] <mclane_> stupid question to the guys who send floaters: how do you measure neck lift in the few gram region?
[21:01] <ulfr> mfa298: I'm quite sure 25W are allowed on 2m cb.
[21:02] <myself> Basically the stuff that travels farther (lower frequencies) requires a fancier license to use. So newbies can splash around in the local end of the pool, and then once you get to know what you're doing, you level-up and get more powerful spells.
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw, OSC pad after Antares crashdown: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=485606&postcount=238
[21:02] <mfa298> ulfr: what do you mean 2m cb ?
[21:02] <ulfr> 153.1MHz.
[21:02] <ulfr> I think it's CB freq in most of europe.
[21:02] <ulfr> (not quite sure 'bout UK)
[21:03] <mfa298> ulfr: no such band in the UK (and I don't think EU either)
[21:03] <mfa298> that's the middle of marine band - different licenses again.
[21:03] <mfa298> most CB for UK and EU is around 27 MHz
[21:04] <fsphil> long time ago it was ~900mhz
[21:04] <day> the class e licence looks good enough i guess ( hoping that class e means the same in the uk)
[21:04] <fsphil> but that wasn't very popular
[21:05] <myself> US CB is 27MHz, 4 watts. Most folks run 25 watts in violation and nobody cares, but the idiots with 1kW amplifiers are hard to hide.. :P
[21:05] <day> lol
[21:05] <DL7AD> !hysplit B-64
[21:05] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141030-10_183249_B64.gif
[21:05] <mfa298> reading some stuff it looks like 900MHz was an attempt by .gov to stop cheap japanese radios and get uk manufacturers work
[21:05] <edmoore> something something insertion losses
[21:05] <ulfr> mfa298: no, it's at the lower end of the marine band..
[21:05] <mikestir> seems there's quite a few people round here treating 446 as CB, with baofengs hooked up to 70cm colinears
[21:06] <myself> UHF is so easy to direction-find, though... that would make for a fun sport
[21:06] <myself> let's go tofurkey-hunting!
[21:06] <myself> (fake ham)
[21:06] <mikestir> ha. never done a 70cm df hunt then?
[21:06] <mikestir> it's also very easy to reflect
[21:06] <myself> Two words:
[21:06] <myself> Dopp
[21:06] <myself> ler.
[21:07] <myself> er, you know what I mean. Easier than 11m, anyway.
[21:07] <myself> (good luck putting an 11m dopper quad array on your car roof)
[21:07] <mikestir> at hf you can use a magnetic loop - they have a very sharp null
[21:08] <day> how 'far' do you get with 4watts?
[21:08] <myself> a mile or two? sometimes much longer if conditions are good, but not reliably.
[21:08] <day> oh, thats not very much :o
[21:08] <myself> (most CB gear is junk and not well-tuned during installation, either.)
[21:10] <mfa298> myself: that's why you use a 30m coax cable (some of the bad information that's out there)
[21:10] <bertrik> I've heard people chat on the LPD433 channels, like 433.075 and 433.175, presumably on baofengs
[21:13] <day> considering how cheap these things are, it doesnt amaze me
[21:16] <day> heck they are so cheap, im pretty tempted myself to simply buy one and see what is going on in the eather
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[21:18] <craag> When the websdr was back in Basingstoke, there was a local group chatting (and arguing) with baofengs on about 433, entertaining to listen to sometimes.
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[21:21] <mikestir> just had a little listen round CB. there's two guys on there swearing at each other
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:21] <mikestir> not quite as busy as it used to be
[21:23] <mfa298> most of the times I've listened around here there's only activity on C19
[21:23] <mikestir> yeah that was on 19
[21:24] <mikestir> pmr446 channel 1 as well
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[21:44] <jiffe> sweet, might be able to pick up b64 for the first time in a few hours
[21:45] <arko> you in TX??
[21:45] <jiffe> austin
[21:45] <arko> ha!
[21:45] <arko> cool place
[21:45] <arko> im thinking about visiting
[21:45] <jiffe> it, I moved here about a year ago
[21:46] <arko> one of my friends goes to university out there
[21:46] <arko> plus its like a 3 hour flight
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[21:49] <arko> i need to do a road trip one of these days
[21:49] <edmoore> same
[21:49] <edmoore> i want to do you to florida
[21:49] <arko> yes
[21:49] <edmoore> via small towns and rocket parks
[21:49] <arko> lets get a convertable mustang and do LA to FL
[21:49] <arko> stopping at engineering landmarks
[21:50] <arko> and that meteor crater in AZ
[21:50] <mattbrejza> craag: did you try swtiching between LoRa and FSK mode when the IC was in sleep mode?
[21:50] <arko> or wherever it is
[21:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK2HAB-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VK2HAB-11
[21:50] <arko> oh an the trinity site
[21:50] <arko> and*
[21:50] <edmoore> not a mustang again
[21:50] <edmoore> a different car this time
[21:51] <craag> mattbrejza: Not sure. You got it working?
[21:52] <mattbrejza> sleep mode: Note that this is the only mode permissible to switch between FSK/OOK mode and LoRa mode. - datasheet
[21:52] <arko> edmoore: Ford F250 Turbo Diesel
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[21:52] <edmoore> too new
[21:52] <arko> hmmm
[21:52] <arko> it needs character
[21:52] <arko> agreed
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[21:53] <arko> I GOT IT
[21:53] <edmoore> can you rent a lincoln continental?
[21:53] <fsphil> delorian
[21:53] <fsphil> only kidding
[21:53] <fsphil> I want to
[21:53] <arko> 1969 Chevrolet AstroVette Stingray
[21:54] <fsphil> I want you to survive it
[21:54] <arko> we can pretend we are apollo mission astronauts
[21:54] <arko> edmoore: this is america, you can rent anything
[21:54] <edmoore> nice
[21:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://tinyurl.com/nkwhzsg
[21:55] <arko> http://image.superchevy.com/f/8883363+w640+h426+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/vet1101_06%2b1969_chevrolet_corvette_stingray%2bpassenger_side_front_view.jpg
[21:55] <fsphil> guy at work is just back from doing the SF > LA drive
[21:55] <edmoore> so there is a tv show on shortly, which is actually called the kind of name that i think we came up with once playing the porn-versions-of-famous-film-titles
[21:55] <edmoore> 'scrotal recall'
[21:56] <edmoore> perfect arko
[21:56] <arko> done
[21:56] <arko> i await your arrival to start the trip
[21:56] <arko> hahahaha
[21:56] <arko> scrotal recall
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[22:54] <day> omg the Class E exam is a joke.. are they seriously asking questions like: what equals 100mW? 10^-1W, 0.001W, 0.01W ?
[22:55] <day> which unit is used for voltage O.o
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah every kid can do that
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> the last one is on quizduell also xD
[22:57] <fsphil> "what colour is the sky?"
[22:59] <day> theres no law/regulation part? o0
[22:59] <day> i can only find technical questions
[23:01] <day> oh loard, there are even questions that are physically wrong or at least questionable T_T
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[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah there is a law part too
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> and one about stuff like the Q-codes and so on
[23:04] <day> hm then theres probably a second book. the first one is called 'technical knowledge' but theres no 2nd thats why i was wondering
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[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:04] <day> nvm i found it
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[23:26] <Ian_> day: I think that perhaps darc.de could shed a little more light on the minimum amateur radio examination requirements for you.
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[23:32] <day> Ian_: i found all the necessary question lists :> still looking for the answer almanach tho :(
[23:33] <day> also thumbs up for the german privatesphere dataa security http://ans.bundesnetzagentur.de/Amateurfunk/Rufzeichen.aspx
[23:34] <day> they even let you use '*' for the search ioi
[23:34] <day> sleeping time. gn8 everyone
[23:35] <Ian_> Goodnight day
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[23:42] <fsphil> hehe
[23:47] <Ian_> fsphil, do you write for a well known monthly?
[23:48] <fsphil> don't think so
[23:49] <Ian_> Same name, different person then. Just the article was about Cython and I wondered.
[23:49] <Ian_> I'm sure that you would know :-)
[23:49] <fsphil> ah, he's got two r's
[23:50] <Ian_> That's what I thought and you are obviously aware of LXF.
[23:50] <fsphil> yea. I met the old editor years ago
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 31 2014