highaltitude.log.20141027

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[04:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03nautilus_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=nautilus_chase
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[05:02] <arko> UGGGGGGGG
[05:02] <arko> DAMN IT B-64
[05:02] <arko> SHOW UP ALREADY!
[05:02] Action: Oddstr13 is poking around in Linrad for the first time
[05:10] <natrium43> lol
[05:13] <Oddstr13> http://satomi.openshell.no/tmp/gqrx_20141027_032318_433864000.wav Any idea of what this might be? (skip to last 5s or so)
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[06:08] <thasti> Oddstr13: wireless temperature sensor
[06:12] <Oddstr13> thasti: likley, yea, but what's the encoding/modulation?
[06:12] <thasti> Oddstr13: OOK / PPM, i guess
[06:13] <thasti> if you see just one peak in the spectrum, switch demodulation to AM and record - afterwards view with audacity/matlab/$program and zoom in on the bursts - you may see rectangles of "on" and "off"
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[06:14] <thasti> put the peak right on the AM center frequency
[06:15] <Oddstr13> I see several signals, of varying strength, around 433.8MHz
[06:15] <Oddstr13> also, that there is an AM recording
[06:17] <Oddstr13> neat, that certently looks like digital data
[06:17] <thasti> the ones i know send out a relatively long preamble and manchester encoded data afterwards - which often contains no useable information, but only some raw sensor values you would have to apply some maths to..
[06:18] <Oddstr13> what's usualy the range of sensors like these?
[06:19] <thasti> ~some 100m in urban areas, when in line of sight maybe some km
[06:19] <Oddstr13> I know about just one of these weather sensors, and it's about 150-200m away
[06:20] <thasti> could be it, i see some of them here which all belong to families in the neighborhood
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[06:20] <ok1cdj> gm all
[06:21] <Maxell> PD3ADN_Arno: ik bem mafsen
[06:21] <Maxell> wrong chan
[06:27] <Oddstr13> thasti: http://satomi.openshell.no/tmp/Linard_screenshot.png screenshot I took earlier here
[06:29] <thasti> the 4 bursts on the right ~433.75 and .9?
[06:30] <Oddstr13> yep, and one over at 434
[06:30] <Oddstr13> they sound about the same, but with different bitrates
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[06:40] <Oddstr13> thasti: http://satomi.openshell.no/tmp/audacity_gqrx_20141027_032835_433886300.png
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[06:42] <thasti> alright, now implement a slicer to get 0/1 out of it and some sort of timing recovery, afterwards try to correlate to temperature ;)
[06:42] <Oddstr13> 11110111010011111001110111110011110
[06:43] <Oddstr13> assuming wide == 1 and narrow == 0
[06:43] <Oddstr13> also, that's just counting the tops
[06:44] <thasti> gotta go catch my train - cul!
[06:44] <Oddstr13> cya
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[07:09] <jarod> http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2014.243.html
[07:10] <jarod> (wrong channel, my bad)
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[08:02] <fsphil> Wanted: B-64
[08:02] <DL7AD> hysplit is always late
[08:03] <DL7AD> !hysplit B-64
[08:03] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141027-04_195384_B64.gif
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[08:08] <lz1dev> it all depends on how much it got caught by that cyclone area
[08:08] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/198467_trj001.gif <= current position at 12000 12500 13000m
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[09:14] <edusupport> ping upu
[09:15] <UpuWork> morning
[09:15] <edusupport> Hi can you set freq on the MTX2 before dispatch ?
[09:15] <UpuWork> Sorry no I don't have any programming rig for it
[09:15] <UpuWork> you can pull the parallel pins
[09:16] <edusupport> Ok ill do it np Ill be ordering soon
[09:16] <UpuWork> CH0: 434.650, CH1: 434.075, CH2: 434.500, CH3: 434.275MHz
[09:16] <UpuWork> nps
[09:17] <UpuWork> pm btw
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[10:13] <nickjohnson> Here's the schematic: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_iKMAYU3t1LbnZYY1JKc2FlZUE/view?usp=sharing
[10:13] <nickjohnson> oops, wrong channel :)
[10:24] <Darkside> lol
[10:25] Action: jcoxon was hoping to launch this week
[10:26] <jcoxon> predictions are not great
[10:27] <fsphil> not if you hope to get it back anyway
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[11:19] <jededu> ping upu
[11:19] <UpuWork> pong
[11:20] <jededu> pm
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[11:26] <Maxell> !ping B-64
[11:26] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Last contact with 03B-64 was 034 days ago
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[11:29] <craag> stolen by the cartels
[11:31] <lz1dev> us aprs balloon cartels are no joke
[11:33] <staylo> One of Our Aerostats Is Missing
[11:38] <lz1dev> i heard they cut the He with CO2
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[11:45] <joeman> hi
[11:45] <UpuWork> morning
[11:45] <joeman> Does anyknow if the decent rate calcs on predict.habhub.org take into account that the parachute doesn't work at high altitudes?
[11:45] <joeman> g'day
[11:45] <joeman> evening here :)
[11:46] <UpuWork> ah my condolences
[11:46] <joeman> i.e. until kit starts hitting some drag....
[11:46] <joeman> mine to you :)
[11:46] <craag> yes they do
[11:46] <joeman> ok
[11:46] <joeman> good
[11:46] <joeman> Means I don't need to worry how accurate it is
[11:46] <craag> There's some complex model behind it that I don't understand, but seems to be quite accurate :)
[11:47] <joeman> ok
[11:47] <joeman> very good to know. Thanks Craag
[11:47] <joeman> I have got an exemption to launch a balloon this Saturday
[11:47] <joeman> in Far north Queensland
[11:47] <joeman> just doing some analysis on landing
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03mw0pjj_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=mw0pjj_chase
[11:50] <craag> Cool :) Are you going to use spacenearus for tracking?
[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX4 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VORTEX4
[11:59] <Rebounder> btw, someone here had found 430 mhz yagi, for about 5-8 euro, very simple but usefull
[11:59] <Rebounder> but forgot who it was..
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[12:06] <DL7AD_mobile> Hi
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[12:08] <DL7AD_mobile> sp2ipt missed my message :D
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[12:39] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: #UKHAS trackers + #UKHASnet feature in article by Mike Richards G4WNC in RadioUser mag http://t.co/BUvvBHt7UX #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[12:40] <Laurenceb> can anyone here help me with basic networking under linux?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> im trying to connect a beaglebone via usb and its all going to pot :-/
[12:41] <Laurenceb> on wireshark im seeing DNS queries going to 192.168.1.1 when they should go to 192.168.7.1
[12:41] <Laurenceb> any ideas what went wrong?
[12:41] <ulfr> is the dns server 192.168.7.1?
[12:41] <Laurenceb> no
[12:41] <Laurenceb> 192.168.7.1 is my PC
[12:42] <ulfr> oh you mean the response?
[12:42] <Laurenceb> 192.168.7.2 is the beaglebone
[12:42] <Laurenceb> no
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> Can you ping between things using IP
[12:42] <Laurenceb> 192.168.7.2 -> 192.168.1.1
[12:42] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:42] <Laurenceb> they will ping ok
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> /etc/resolv.conf should contain the line nameserver 192.168.7.1
[12:42] <ulfr> so you have another subnet for pc<>bb?
[12:42] <Laurenceb> route add default gw 192.168.7.1
[12:42] <Laurenceb> SIOCADDRT: File exists
[12:43] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:43] <Laurenceb> looking
[12:43] <tweetBot> @AKA2112: #UKHAS 434 MHz trackers + #UKHASnet feature in article by Mike Richards G4WNC in RadioUser mag http://t.co/Cg7krCK0fC #amsat #hamradio #hamr
[12:43] <Laurenceb> aha nameserver 192.168.1.1
[12:43] <Laurenceb> WTF
[12:43] <ulfr> is it configured via dhcp?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> i dont know
[12:44] <Laurenceb> still broken
[12:44] <Laurenceb> lets take a look
[12:44] <ulfr> is 192.168.1.1 gw for pc?
[12:44] <ulfr> That you're trying to route to.
[12:45] <Laurenceb> im getting ICMP Destination unreachable (Port unreachable)
[12:46] <mfa298> Laurenceb: is your PC running a dns server ?
[12:46] <Laurenceb> from the host pc
[12:46] <Laurenceb> no
[12:46] <ulfr> Then it wont work.
[12:46] <Laurenceb> my pc connects to a network via a proxy
[12:46] <mfa298> then setting the BBB to use the PC and dns server wont work
[12:46] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:46] <Laurenceb> maybe
[12:46] <Laurenceb> this used to work
[12:46] <ulfr> but dns is just nameresolv
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i havent changed anything
[12:46] <ulfr> if you can't ping the world it's useless anyway
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i bricked by Beaglebone last week and im trying to recover it
[12:46] <ulfr> ifconfig on the bb?
[12:47] <mfa298> Laurenceb: you're likely going to do better talking to the local network guys.
[12:47] <mfa298> from the time I spent on friday it sounds like there's a lot of interestng setup you need to work with.
[12:47] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:47] <Laurenceb> usb0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr d6:68:26:e1:3c:b3
[12:47] <Laurenceb> inet addr:192.168.7.2 Bcast:192.168.7.3 Mask:255.255.255.252
[12:48] <mfa298> (I don't have time to try halping much more than that)
[12:48] <craag> err that's a tight mask
[12:48] <ulfr> that will never work.
[12:48] <ulfr> the netmask is wrong
[12:48] <Laurenceb> oh
[12:49] <Laurenceb> actually im running the wrong image here anyway
[12:49] <Laurenceb> going to have to reflash
[12:49] <Laurenceb> so what does the netmask need to be?
[12:50] <Laurenceb> 0.0.0.0 ?
[12:51] <mfa298> there's nothing wrong with a 255.255.255.252 mask for a point to point link (it's actually quite common)
[12:51] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:51] <mfa298> as long as the netmask matches on both sides
[12:51] <ulfr> oh
[12:52] <mfa298> and you're only using 7.1 and 7.2 on the devices
[12:52] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:52] <Laurenceb> ill reimage and try again
[12:52] <Laurenceb> should take an hour or so
[12:52] <ulfr> the pc acts as a router then?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:53] <Laurenceb> inet - proxy - pc - usb - beaglebone
[12:53] <Laurenceb> i had this working on friday morning
[12:53] <LeoBodnar> there is a quiet zone off the USA west cost perhaps B-64 is chilling out there http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-138,23,1000
[12:53] <Laurenceb> so its likely to be an issue with the beagle
[12:54] <day> what kind of transmitter does B-64 use?
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[12:54] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: I worked out how to fit WSPR on a pico
[12:54] <Laurenceb> loop antenna using alu foil
[12:54] <LeoBodnar> oh
[12:55] <Laurenceb> ~60% efficiency with 1.7grams
[12:55] <Laurenceb> at 20m
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> on the envelope?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:55] <Laurenceb> only that would need autotuning of some sort
[12:55] <LeoBodnar> well
[12:55] <Laurenceb> varicap
[12:56] <LeoBodnar> what does skin effect look like at 10µm
[12:56] <Laurenceb> skin depth is 20µm
[12:56] <LeoBodnar> as it's a very long track
[12:56] <craag> day: Si4060
[12:57] <Laurenceb> it needs 10v peak
[12:57] <Laurenceb> but i think its doable with some sort of class E amp
[12:58] <Laurenceb> the tricky bit is its a very high Q loop
[12:58] <Laurenceb> so autotuning might be needed
[12:58] <Laurenceb> Q is nearly 100
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> i think skin effect will ruin your Q
[12:59] <Laurenceb> no
[12:59] <Laurenceb> i modelled skin depth
[12:59] <Laurenceb> thats why i suggested alu foil
[12:59] <Laurenceb> about 15mm wide ~12µm alu foil would be best
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> real foil or the stuff that film has by default?
[12:59] <Laurenceb> feal foil
[13:00] <Laurenceb> *real
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> ah
[13:02] <Laurenceb> i calculated 1.7grams of foil for 60% efficiency on 20m band with 10mW total emitted power
[13:03] <craag> what diameter loop?
[13:03] <Laurenceb> around the envelope
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
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[13:04] <craag> which diameter envelope?
[13:05] <Laurenceb> well its variable
[13:05] <Laurenceb> about 1.5m enclosed area
[13:05] <Laurenceb> m^2
[13:05] <craag> ah k
[13:05] <craag> that's rather impressive efficiency for that size!
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> I assume that means it's quite high Q?
[13:09] <Laurenceb> yes, about 100
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> This is for a long duration ~15km floater I assume?
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[13:20] <Laurenceb> funtimes
[13:20] <Laurenceb> BBB now refiuses to connect on usb
[13:20] <Laurenceb> i cant believe what a disaster this is
[13:24] <Laurenceb> this is why i was planning to burn this thing in the fired of hell last week
[13:24] <Laurenceb> i had other thoughts, but i think i was right
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[13:36] <SpeedEvil> :/
[13:37] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[13:37] <ulfr> Sometimes that's the only solution :(
[13:39] <Laurenceb> looks like i fried it anyway
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[13:39] <Laurenceb> it seems to be permanently dead now
[13:40] <day> Laurenceb: D: i dare you. i love my bbb
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[13:41] <ulfr> Laurenceb: are you trying to split atoms with that thing?
[13:41] <Laurenceb> im trying to boot it
[13:42] <day> probably with a fork
[13:47] <Laurenceb> wtf
[13:47] <Laurenceb> managed to get it to connect
[13:47] <myself> let me guess, you used a different USB cable this time?
[13:48] <ulfr> did you move it?
[13:48] <ulfr> different port?
[13:48] <ulfr> different computer? D:
[13:49] <Laurenceb> rebooted
[13:49] <myself> different magnetic field alignment, beagles have to turn around 3 times before laying down
[13:49] <Laurenceb> 24 3.803784 192.168.7.1 192.168.7.2 ICMP Destination unreachable (Port unreachable)
[13:49] <Laurenceb> ^so im getting that back from the host PC
[13:49] <Laurenceb> when i tries to connect to proxy server
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[13:51] <mfa298> Laurenceb: is the host PC running a proxy server ?
[13:51] <Laurenceb> no
[13:51] <Laurenceb> the host pc connects via a proxy server
[13:52] <mfa298> Port unreachable means you're trying to talk to a port on the machine that doesn't exist
[13:52] <mfa298> it sounds like you set the BBB to use the host pc as the proxy server (same as the dns issue you said about earlier)
[13:53] <mfa298> I *think* the PC is just acting as the default gateway for the BBB nothing else
[13:53] <mfa298> in which case the only thing that should be set to the PC address is the default gateway.
[13:53] <Laurenceb> oh
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[13:54] <Laurenceb> hmm
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[13:54] <mfa298> if you set the PC address as dns/proxy/web/ssh server then the PC *needs* to run some suitable software
[13:54] <Laurenceb> no thats all set correctly
[13:54] <Laurenceb> well i suspect the pc is setup ok
[13:54] <Laurenceb> as this was all running ok on friday morning before i bricked it
[13:54] <Laurenceb> so its likely to be an issue with the beaglebone
[13:54] <mfa298> so on the BBB things like proxy and dns servers should be listed as the same as on the PC.
[13:55] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:55] <Laurenceb> ive set up the proxies
[13:55] <Laurenceb> and gateway
[13:55] <Laurenceb> but im getting the ICMP error back from the host PC
[13:55] <Laurenceb> yeah, "Port unreachable"
[13:56] <mfa298> whats the proxy config on the BBB set to then ?
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[13:56] <Laurenceb> i copied the setup from the host PC
[13:56] <Laurenceb> its identical
[13:56] <mfa298> maybe try traceroute to the proxy address
[13:57] <Laurenceb> ok
[13:58] <mfa298> but I shall re-itterate what I've said several times before - this is likely to be much quicker and easier to sort out if you talk to the local systems / networks people as they know how things are setup. anyone here is just guessing
[13:58] <Laurenceb> yeah ill try to find someone
[13:59] <mfa298> also if there's a good reason for this stuff they could potentially put rules on network that allows the BBB direct access rather than needing a proxy.
[13:59] <Laurenceb> looks like traceroute gets out of my pc, but cant find the proxy
[13:59] <Laurenceb> very odd
[14:00] <Laurenceb> oh nvm
[14:00] <Laurenceb> i cant ping it
[14:00] <Laurenceb> *can
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[14:03] <fsphil> more scary stories: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29785322
[14:04] <Laurenceb> perplexing
[14:04] <Laurenceb> i dont see how proxy works on my PC
[14:06] <Laurenceb> there should be a service you can post beaglebones to to have them reflashed
[14:06] <Laurenceb> id pay for that
[14:07] <nickjohnson> fsphil: The tone seems fairly reasonable. "Some dick flew a quadcopter dangerously", rather than "quadcopters are TEH DEBIL!"
[14:07] <craag> Laurenceb: Have you tried asking in #beagle?
[14:07] <fsphil> there have been more than a few stories like this on bbc recently nickjohnson
[14:08] <fsphil> they do this now and then. previously it was lasers
[14:08] <Laurenceb> craag: that channel is a bit dead
[14:08] <Laurenceb> i think this is more of a networking problem :S
[14:09] <Laurenceb> i dont know anything about networking
[14:09] <fsphil> can't you just plug in an ethernet cable?
[14:09] <Laurenceb> no
[14:09] <edmoore> using openbsd for a while helped me a lot with networking at network services
[14:09] <edmoore> and*
[14:09] <craag> I haven't had to use a network proxy since school, so can't help you out :/
[14:09] <Laurenceb> unregistered MAC address wont connect
[14:09] <mfa298> the *biggest* issue with most networking problems is it generally requires a lot of local knowldege to know what's happening.
[14:09] <edmoore> also making the ethernet dataloggers
[14:10] <Laurenceb> yeah ill tyr to find a network admin... might take all day tho
[14:10] <day> Laurenceb: why cant you just plug in a lan cable?
[14:10] <Laurenceb> its bizarre, im getting ICMP port unreachable
[14:10] Action: day needs to know :p
[14:10] <Laurenceb> from the host pc
[14:10] <myself> because whining is more fun!
[14:10] <Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> unregistered MAC address wont connect
[14:11] <day> what does that even mean? did you flash the ethernet chip?
[14:11] <fsphil> strict
[14:11] <Laurenceb> ill wireshark ethernet from the host pc to look for ICMP stuff
[14:11] <fsphil> if it helps, my bbb won't even boot. so you're already ahead
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[14:13] <mfa298> day: some places are strict on their networks. DHCP won't give an address unless the mac address is registered, proxies to restrict access, even things like 802.1x on the ports so you need to authenticate to the network before the switch port comes up.
[14:14] <day> mfa298: ah i thought that happens if he connects it directly to his pc
[14:14] <edmoore> we bought a load of mac addresses this weekend
[14:14] <day> when*
[14:14] <Laurenceb> uh oh
[14:14] <Laurenceb> Code: 10 (Host administratively prohibited)
[14:14] <mfa298> day: I think that's what he's been trying to do (usb network connection via the pc)
[14:14] <day> im amazed we didnt run out of mac addresses already
[14:14] <Laurenceb> admins are trolling me?
[14:15] <Laurenceb> how could they block BBB traffic but allow my PC to connect?
[14:15] <Laurenceb> or is that impossible
[14:15] <mfa298> Laurenceb: unlikely, icmp error codes can mean a few things.
[14:15] <fsphil> day: it's a 48-bit value. not likely to run out anytime soon
[14:15] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:15] <Laurenceb> thats the reply to my host PC
[14:16] <Laurenceb> when the BBB tries to connect to the proxy
[14:16] <day> fsphil: i justed checked. thought its smaller :[
[14:16] <fsphil> 281 billion should be enough
[14:17] <edmoore> that's only 40 ethernet-connected things per human
[14:17] <edmoore> which is not actually absurd, if the world becomes fully buzzword compliant with its internet of things
[14:17] <fsphil> only needs to be unique on the persons LAN
[14:17] <edmoore> true
[14:17] <edmoore> i'm unlikely to have 281 billion things on my lan
[14:18] <day> edmoore: considering that each gadget has a mac adress i wouldnt be surprised if we run out sooner oro later
[14:18] <mfa298> and not all internet things use ethernet so don't need a mac address
[14:18] <myself> The more duplicate MACs we can generate, the more we'll frustrate the advertising beacon tracking gizmos at stores and stuff!
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[14:20] <fsphil> there are actually 40210 mac addresses per person atm. my idea of billion seems to disagree with everyone elses
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[14:22] <adamgreig> :P
[14:22] <adamgreig> a billion's a million millions right?
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> no
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> 10^9
[14:22] <edmoore> i think adam was joking
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> It used to be (50s?) 10^12 in the uk
[14:23] <fsphil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> But that usage died out ages ago
[14:23] <adamgreig> we should have a slightly different word to clarify, a "billeon" for the english version
[14:23] <fsphil> my use of billion was from the long scale
[14:23] <adamgreig> like gibibytes
[14:23] <edmoore> gigaquant
[14:23] <fsphil> which apparently hasn't been used here since 1974
[14:23] <adamgreig> and a trilleon would be a billeon billeon
[14:23] <adamgreig> very big number
[14:23] <fsphil> the long-scale is more logical
[14:24] <adamgreig> is it really though
[14:24] <edmoore> this is a trilleon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv4nN-Bc9YA
[14:25] <edmoore> especially when presented in american
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[14:28] <adamgreig> he's so pleased to be talking about trills
[14:29] <edmoore> he's trilled
[14:41] <Laurenceb> maybe i need to configure a nameserver?
[14:41] <Laurenceb> what is a nameserver?
[14:41] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:43] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:43] <Laurenceb> that fixed it
[14:43] <Laurenceb> lolz
[14:43] <Laurenceb> i needed to find the nameserver on the lan
[14:43] <Laurenceb> opendns was firewalled
[14:43] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, okay - please stop
[14:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> it will be in the ip config of the pc
[14:43] <jcoxon> back on topic
[14:43] <jcoxon> please
[14:44] <Laurenceb> lolz
[14:44] Action: Laurenceb is raging
[14:44] <Laurenceb> in smash up my keyboard mode
[14:44] <jcoxon> well chat somewhere else
[14:44] <Laurenceb> sorry
[14:44] <Laurenceb> /join #networkRAGE
[14:52] <ulfr> I must admit.
[14:52] <ulfr> Laurenceb's networkingrage was more fun than that piano video.
[14:52] <edmoore> yes
[14:52] <edmoore> he was quite hard work
[14:53] <edmoore> i'm listening to this currently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH7z8UryU-c
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[15:29] <arko> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/27/pennsylvania-police-using-unmanned-balloon-from-ohio-in-search-for-suspect-in/
[15:30] <arko> huh...
[15:31] <edmoore> might be a helikite
[15:31] <edmoore> a lot go to the states
[15:36] <jcoxon> anyone used the maplin own brand litihum batteries before?
[15:36] <jcoxon> they've got a range of AA and AAAs now
[15:42] <nickjohnson> Really? How do they get them down to 1.5v?
[15:43] <jcoxon> oh they are like lithium energizers rather than lipos
[15:43] <nickjohnson> Oh, right, sorry. Primary lithium batteries.
[15:44] <mattbrejza> tbh for an up/down generic cells would probably do fine
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[15:59] <peterbjornx> UpuWork: according to my bank the money has been transferred
[16:01] <edmoore> according to my bank you owe me a bottle of champagne upu
[16:02] <edmoore> i asked them and they said so
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[16:03] <UpuWork> Hey Peter I'll check it a sec
[16:03] <UpuWork> it wasn't in at lunch time
[16:05] <edmoore> what about my champagne?
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> The Bank drank it for yu
[16:07] <UpuWork> nothing there yet peterbjornx
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[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Are there any teeny islands between hawaii and the US mainland?
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[16:34] <stilldavid> I don't think so.
[16:35] <staylo> Not unless you believe those lying 1960s TV shows
[16:36] <stilldavid> I've read enough accounts of folks who have kayaked in-between, and they all sure would have enjoyed a stop halfway through, believe me
[16:36] <jcoxon> stilldavid, any balloon flights planned?
[16:36] <stilldavid> nothing yet, but it's been on my mind lately.
[16:36] <stilldavid> been answering a lot of emails, have talked at two ham conventions about it in the Denver area
[16:36] <stilldavid> and of course getting something together to head to WY for the 2017 eclipse :)
[16:36] <jcoxon> stilldavid, have you seen our work on ukhasnet?
[16:37] <stilldavid> no, what's up?
[16:37] <stilldavid> oh, wow.
[16:38] <jcoxon> www.ukhas.net
[16:39] <stilldavid> https://www.ukhas.net/logtail <-- what am I looking at?
[16:39] <jcoxon> thats data come from all the nodes
[16:39] <jcoxon> check out the map bit
[16:39] <jcoxon> they are currently just local networks
[16:40] <jcoxon> but hopefully will soon be linked by balloons...
[16:40] <stilldavid> this is... awesome
[16:40] <jcoxon> we are on #ukhasnet
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[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:14] <vincentsan> hello, good evening
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[18:16] <vincentsan> I've been working on a solar power supply. Some of you have experience with the TPS61200 ?
[18:18] <qyx_> yes, doesn't work well, it lacks MPPT
[18:23] <qyx_> also i couldn't make it stable with soft solar supply
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[18:26] <vincentsan> qyx_, ok, I have made this schematic: http://www.up-in-the-air.com/#up3
[18:26] <vincentsan> so you think it would not work
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Actually check the datasheet for the cell - 0.5V sounds low - I think you want more like 0.58
[18:28] <vincentsan> TI seems to market it for solar app with the application paper http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva345b/slva345b.pdf
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> This will vary by temperature too
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - i'm not looking at it in detail
[18:29] <vincentsan> SpeedEvil, from the datasheet: The TPS61200 is able to start from a load of 0.5 V and will run down to voltages below 0.3 V
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> yes-I'mjustsayingthat for decent mppt - 0.5V is probably wrong
[18:30] <vincentsan> ok, I see your point
[18:30] <vincentsan> I am trying to control the MPPT with the MCU
[18:31] <vincentsan> But I have no clue this would work
[18:31] <qyx_> i tried it with single panel setup, didn't work
[18:31] <vincentsan> But I could set it to 0.58 then
[18:31] <qyx_> it needs at least 1-1.5V
[18:31] <qyx_> otherwise the efficioency will be very poor
[18:32] <vincentsan> qyx_, what load was at the output ?
[18:33] <qyx_> some microchip single cell charger
[18:33] <vincentsan> This must draw a lot, no ?
[18:34] <qyx_> yes, but it works in low dropout mode if input is lower as requested output
[18:34] <qyx_> there is only small power loss
[18:35] <qyx_> at least thats the theory, i found an application note with this setup
[18:35] <vincentsan> my cell outputs 350mA at 0.5V. I just need 15mA at 2.5V so even 30% efficiency would be much more than needed
[18:35] <vincentsan> what do you use then ?
[18:36] <qyx_> http://qyx.krtko.org/embedded/qnode4/img/sch1.png
[18:36] <qyx_> you can use it as a bad example
[18:36] <qyx_> this didn't work well :)
[18:37] <vincentsan> nice schematic though :)
[18:37] <qyx_> actually only the stepup failed to work as expected
[18:38] <qyx_> i assumed that stepup output will be stable
[18:38] <qyx_> but the TPS61200 oscillated depending on input capacitance
[18:39] <vincentsan> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva345b/slva345b.pdf says that stepping up too fast won't work with a solar cell
[18:39] <qyx_> it waited before input capacitor charged above threshold and when it started swtiching, it was discharged very fast beyond 0.3V level
[18:39] <vincentsan> that's why I would like to try to step up to 2.7V to only power the MCU first and then progressively charge the abttery
[18:39] <qyx_> and stopped switching again
[18:39] <qyx_> yep, this approach would be usable
[18:39] <vincentsan> because of the charger drawing to much no ?
[18:39] <qyx_> yes
[18:40] <qyx_> *feasible
[18:40] <qyx_> i also planned to do it similar way (regulating stepup output voltage from mcu)
[18:40] <qyx_> without dedicated lipo charging chip
[18:40] <vincentsan> I have doubt on my design thouht
[18:40] <vincentsan> *though
[18:41] <qyx_> you have many pads unconnected
[18:41] <vincentsan> Not sure the FB pin would be controlled correctly
[18:41] <vincentsan> theses are thermal pads
[18:43] <qyx_> it should work
[18:44] <qyx_> btw text can't be selected on your page
[18:44] <vincentsan> do you agree that setting A1 to 0.5V should have no effect on the voltage divider ?
[18:44] <vincentsan> yes, this is strange...
[18:45] <vincentsan> must be the bootstrap theme
[18:45] <qyx_> it shouldn't have afaik
[18:46] <qyx_> although it could change fb response, it wouldn't be linear
[18:46] <qyx_> or maybe not, never tried that
[18:47] <vincentsan> so best way to know is to try !
[18:47] <qyx_> Step up and Step down have switching frequencies around L1 GPS frequency
[18:47] <qyx_> huh?
[18:47] <vincentsan> I meant I will try my circuit :)
[18:47] <vincentsan> 1.5Ghz
[18:48] <qyx_> thats certainly not the case of tps61200 :P
[18:48] <vincentsan> as from the datasheet, between 1200 and 1650 kHz
[18:49] <qyx_> yep, you missed three orders of magnitude
[18:49] <vincentsan> yep :)
[18:49] <vincentsan> I was confused by my step down
[18:49] <vincentsan> which is exactly at 1.5Ghz...
[18:49] <qyx_> ghz?
[18:50] <vincentsan> do you think it would be an issue ?
[18:50] <vincentsan> wait, let me check :)
[18:50] <qyx_> hah
[18:50] <qyx_> mighty switcher
[18:51] <vincentsan> you're right :)
[18:51] <vincentsan> cool, no worries about that then
[18:51] <vincentsan> have you had good results with your step down ?
[18:51] <qyx_> i wouldn't say that, there could be some interference issies
[18:51] <qyx_> yep
[18:52] <vincentsan> *did you have (GPS frequency still bugging me)
[18:52] <vincentsan> hum, what kind of issues ?
[18:52] <qyx_> i didn't use gps here
[18:53] <qyx_> but i had issues with radio reception
[18:53] <qyx_> i had to use two 1206 10uF caps on its output to make radio happy
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[18:53] <vincentsan> did you manage to fix them ?
[18:53] <vincentsan> ok
[18:54] <qyx_> too much ripple with caps in smaller packages (voltage derating)
[18:54] <vincentsan> I see
[18:54] <vincentsan> also, why do you need a voltage divider for your VSOLAR ?
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[18:55] <qyx_> to allow higer input voltages (solar)
[18:55] <qyx_> than 2.7V
[18:55] <vincentsan> ok
[18:56] <vincentsan> do you think I could avoid using a Lion charger as I did in my schematic ?
[18:57] <qyx_> i was planning to do the same
[18:57] <qyx_> i even considered omitting stepup
[18:57] <vincentsan> with a Lipo cell ?
[18:57] <qyx_> and using mcu to do simple step-up switcher
[18:58] <vincentsan> yes, I though about that
[18:58] <qyx_> but this design would be death-liking
[18:58] <vincentsan> but I'm missing a way to bootstrap
[18:59] <qyx_> no way, just put mcu to standby with periodic rtc allarm
[18:59] <qyx_> and periodically wake up and hope that sun will shine again
[18:59] <qyx_> *alarm
[19:00] <vincentsan> but what if you're battery is completly dead ?
[19:00] <qyx_> you would have to avoid that situation
[19:00] <qyx_> hence the mcu standby
[19:01] <qyx_> but if the battery dies (capacity = 0)..
[19:02] <vincentsan> If you're ok to standy for long periods you can even drop the battery and use a supercap
[19:02] <vincentsan> until sun shines again
[19:03] <qyx_> standby was meant only for critical situations when battery goes empty during the night or multiple rainy days
[19:03] <qyx_> in my design
[19:03] <vincentsan> I see
[19:07] <vincentsan> The TI solar application paper recommends running TPS61200 in power save mode with PS pin to GND. Any reason you connected it to VCC ?
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[19:10] <qyx_> actually i don't remember
[19:10] <qyx_> but good point
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[19:11] <vincentsan> do you any other feedback on my design before I start the layout ?
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[21:12] <richardeoin> chrisstubbs: the marsballoon team say thanks for tracking their payload to the landing yesterday http://marsballoon.com/elysium-mission-a-success/ :-)
[21:12] <richardeoin> were you using the websdr?
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[21:23] <chrisstubbs> Yeah SUWS, worked really well I must say
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[21:26] <jarod> Does anyone here know the difference between longwave DGPS and VHF DGPS?
[21:28] <fsphil> didn't know there was a vhf version
[21:28] <jarod> http://qrg.globaltuners.com/?q=DGPS&s=1
[21:28] <jarod> http://qrg.globaltuners.com/?q=DGPS&o=&m=0&p=2
[21:28] <fsphil> oh sorry, I've mixed it up with LORAN
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[21:31] <craag> DGPS is jsut local correction data
[21:32] <craag> So VHF DGPS is often used in harbours for accurate positioning in the the harbour
[21:32] <craag> longwave DGPS is for a wider area, and will most likely be not as accurate as a result
[21:38] <Maxell> jarod: yeah or a farmer with his automated crop-plucking machine... He needs <20 cm accuracy
[21:38] <Maxell> EEVblog #676 - RANT: FTDI Bricking Counterfeit Chips! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU66as4Bbds
[21:39] <jarod> i mostly meant the signals for decoding
[21:39] <jarod> longwave is continuous, VHF is bursts
[21:39] <jarod> But i have to go... thanks and bbl
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[22:32] <gonzo__> does anyone still ised dgps?
[22:32] <gonzo__> I thgoght it went away when the SA was turned off
[22:33] <craag> Still used for shipping harbours and surveys
[22:34] <gonzo__> I was working on some kit just as SA went away, so dumped the development
[22:34] <gonzo__> I think it used dgps on the back of local fm radio tx's
[22:35] <gonzo__> but I never got to try it
[22:36] <craag> The gain has lowered
[22:37] <craag> especially with EGNOS
[22:37] <craag> but for sub-meter on a lot of kit in a small area - still makes financial sense.
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[23:02] <day> how do people create 30kHz dds sine waves with <20Mhz uCs with lookuptables of 256values with a 8bit counter that seems impossible O.O
[23:02] <day> i cant figure it out
[23:03] <gonzo__> generate square wave then filter
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[23:03] <day> thats the easy part...
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[23:04] <day> just one iteration through the 8bit counter and im at 57khz. If i want to generate the signal from 10 steps im already down to 5.7khz. They do 33khz @256 steps
[23:05] <day> i would need a 150Mhz clock to do that~
[23:05] <mattbrejza> DMA
[23:05] <day> im already using the hardware pwm
[23:05] <day> if fast mode
[23:06] <mattbrejza> ive got 200kSPS from a LUT
[23:08] <bertrik> day: I guess they don't generate 256 steps for each cycle, those 256 steps just give a specific phase resolution
[23:08] <day> bertrik: im readjusting the duty cycle 256 times for one cycle
[23:09] <day> http://interface.khm.de/index.php/lab/experiments/arduino-dds-sinewave-generator/
[23:10] <day> looking at the picture it doesnt look like 256 resolution
[23:10] <day> but he uses a 256lot :/
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[23:12] <mikestir> day: you use a long counter and index your lut with the upper bits
[23:12] <bertrik> I think you can use bigger phase increments than just 1
[23:12] <day> i thjink he lowers the resolution on higher frequencies, and jumps quicker trhough it :/
[23:12] <day> :D
[23:13] <bertrik> and what mikestir suggest allows you to do even fractional steps I think
[23:13] <mikestir> it does - it's a bog standard numerically controlled oscillator
[23:13] <mattbrejza> better to talk in terms of sample rate and then the frequency of the generated sine wave
[23:16] <mikestir> http://www.mike-stirling.com/redmine/projects/webradio/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/dsp/downconverter.cxx
[23:16] <mikestir> see DownConverter::process
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[00:00] --- Tue Oct 28 2014