highaltitude.log.20141026

[00:00] <SpeedEvil> Click on the balls which are one radius of the blue circle around b-64 away from the coast of the US
[00:00] <SpeedEvil> This says about 60-80 hours for most of them.
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> It's 2d7h old - so 53h
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> So tomorrow morning, to monday morning
[00:01] <SpeedEvil> If it's gone as far south as it could before turning, maybe several more days
[00:01] <goopypanther> man, these interfaces have gotten so much better since I last dealt with balloon predictions
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[00:02] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:02] <SpeedEvil> lz1dev: :)
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[00:05] <kf7fer> no updates from KT5TK-11
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[00:43] <nigelvh> Damn B-64 is looking to go a good bit south of me. I keep waiting for a second pass to come by that I can actually receive.
[00:49] <Darkside> !whereis b-64
[00:49] <SpacenearUS> 03Darkside: 03B-64 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(38.00569,145.1783) at 0312534 meters about 032 days ago
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[01:17] <kf7fer> Two famous disasters involving hydrogen are the explosion of a zeppelin (an airship) called the Hindenburg (in 1937), and the explosion of the Space Shuttle Challenger (in 1986).
[01:18] <ulfr> heh
[01:19] <kf7fer> Sorry I thought it was amusing (from http://www.nmsea.org/Curriculum/7_12/electrolysis/electrolysis.htm)
[01:25] <fsphil> they left out the big bang. it's all been downhill since
[01:28] <ulfr> Hydrogen wasn't formed in the big bang was it?
[01:28] <fsphil> shortly after it
[01:28] <ulfr> few hundred thousand years yes.
[01:29] <ulfr> which is "shortly" relative to 16G years I guess.
[01:29] <fsphil> 377000 years
[01:29] <ulfr> yeah
[01:30] <ulfr> I'd like to own a sword made out of hydrogen.
[01:30] <ulfr> I think it'd be a cool thing to own.
[01:31] <fsphil> very cool
[01:32] <fsphil> 14.01 K according to wp, brrr
[01:32] <fsphil> can't imagine it would be very strong
[01:33] <ulfr> only one way to find out..
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[01:37] <ulfr> D:
[01:39] <ulfr> hydrogen in metallic state has never been observed in a reliable way
[01:39] <ulfr> How crazy.
[01:47] <Darkside> the fact that hydrogen even *has* a metallic state freaks me out
[01:47] <ulfr> Why?
[01:47] <ulfr> It's metal..
[01:47] <ulfr> :D
[01:47] <ulfr> All chemicals except noble gases and nonemetals, are, metals..
[01:48] <ulfr> err
[01:50] <ulfr> I think Jupiter's high gravitational field comes from the hydrogen in it's metallic state. Which is kind of interesting.
[01:50] <ulfr> I wonder what mars did to deserve having it's magnetic field taken away.
[01:53] <Darkside> said a naughty word
[01:53] <ulfr> Could be.
[01:54] <fsphil> kept starting wars
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[01:57] <ulfr> Could be.
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[01:59] <fsphil> venus might be a nicer place to colonise. it's closer, similar gravity and easier to drop heavy equipment on
[01:59] <fsphil> just need structures that can handle heat and pressure
[01:59] <ulfr> or make cloud cities
[01:59] <ulfr> the athmosphere above the clouds is actually similar to earth's
[02:00] <Darkside> our very own bespin
[02:00] <fsphil> not sure I'd like to live on something floating
[02:01] <ulfr> You already are.
[02:02] <ulfr> Earth is sort of just floating in space, thanks to the sun we're on orbit.
[02:02] <fsphil> well I have a misplaced faith in gravity, it won't fail without warning
[02:02] <ulfr> Just fall fast enough.
[02:02] <ulfr> Then you're on orbit :D
[02:03] <fsphil> the ground I'm on is technically floating on lava
[02:03] <fsphil> ...
[02:03] <fsphil> crap
[02:03] <ulfr> Sort of wacky to think about it, all things on orbits are free falling towards that object.
[02:03] <ulfr> fsphil: we're doomed
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[02:08] <fsphil> ah I've escaped 1am
[02:08] <fsphil> it happens twice today
[02:10] <ulfr> Is 1am after you?
[02:21] <kf7fer> KT5TK: So tell me... after you let the balloon go did you run right into St Arnolds and have a few beers while tracking the flight? I'm wondering about the deep meaning of doing a HAB flight at a brewery (I guess I'm just jealous)
[02:24] <ulfr> haha
[02:26] <kf7fer> My fear would be if I started at a pub that I'd never be in any shape to actually recover the payload. Certainly unable to drive
[02:26] <kf7fer> but I guess that's not an issue in this case
[02:28] <ulfr> design a payload that returns home?
[02:29] <kf7fer> Ideally yes but in KT5TK's case it's a floater
[02:30] <kf7fer> Can I design a playload that returns me home?
[02:31] <ulfr> Google already did it?
[02:35] <kf7fer> I'm probably too fat to lift I'm afraid. But I do like the idea of doing some sort of self-guided payload.
[02:36] <kf7fer> Since, like most 'mericans, my payload is too fat to float... perhaps it can do something cool on the way back down?
[02:40] <lz1dev> !hysplit add SP5NVX
[02:40] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03SP5NVX to defaults
[02:41] <lz1dev> !hysplit run SP5NVX
[02:41] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[02:41] <ulfr> kf7fer: MAybe make it fetch pizza on it's way down?
[02:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OK1ALX_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=OK1ALX_chase
[02:45] <kf7fer> The perfect use of a GSM module. Have it call Domino's - which does voice ordering - and call in a pizza for the recovery area. You rock, ulfr!
[02:46] <ulfr> I got all the good solutions to none-existing problems.
[02:46] <kf7fer> what a wonderful curse
[02:46] <ulfr> Guess there's a reason why I went into engineering to begin with.
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[04:01] <jarod> trying to decode 147.3 khz with multipsk ... any hints? (dl-fidigi works just fine)
[04:15] <jarod> ah got it working... Reception normal change to reverse... aka: swap polarity ... jebus :P
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[05:49] <jarod> It took me a while but: http://x264.nl/dump/multipsk-clock-dcf77-decode-2014-10-26-0546utc.jpg
[05:55] <jarod> http://x264.nl/dump/0-40/77.5khz-multipsk-clock-dcf77-decode-2014-10-26-0546utc.jpg (new link)
[05:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC5 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC5
[05:59] <arko> come on B-64
[05:59] <arko> soooooon
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[07:22] <jededu> 04EDUPIC5 is up transmission every 2 mins
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[07:26] <jededu> 05 434.650, 100 baud, 400 shift , 8n2
[07:29] <mfa298> is this on -ve ish
[07:30] <mfa298> ah no, I see the flight doc sats 0730 gmt
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[08:10] <PE2BZ> !payload edupic5
[08:10] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[08:12] <mikestir> 100,8n2 400 shift PE2BZ
[08:13] <mikestir> 434.650
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[08:17] <jededu> If there any admins around I need the flight doc approved
[08:17] <jededu> :)
[08:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> jededu: You might need to pop into #habhub and ask
[08:18] <jededu> Its on there
[08:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> No, the IRC channel
[08:19] <jededu> Yes theat what I Meant :)
[08:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> Oh, you already did ;-) OK
[08:24] <jededu> mmm 2 bad checksums
[08:25] <edmoore> spoil the broth
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[08:34] <PE2BZ> mikestir Thanks !
[08:36] <edmoore> this dual op-amp is only 5p for 2
[08:36] <edmoore> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1787896.pdf
[08:36] <edmoore> we live in times of such abundance!
[08:36] <edmoore> why is there war?
[08:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03FOKUS-1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=FOKUS-1
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[08:45] <whiteg6> !flights
[08:45] <SpacenearUS> 03whiteg6: Current flights: 03MTG002 10(9f1f), 03FOKUS ONE ISM: 434.593MHz 10(a5e0), 03SP5NVX RTTY 144.67 7n1.5/100 10(8de1), 03STRATOCACHING 2 10(c0d6), 03UBSEDS3 10(293e), 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6), 03EDUPIC5 duration test 10(4d27)
[08:47] <fsphil> busy day
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[08:51] <jededu> Are any uk flights ?
[08:54] <Steve_G0TDJ> jededu: Elysium from the Mendips at noon-ish
[08:54] <jededu> Ok thx
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[09:07] <jededu> -1.3 m/s mmmm
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[09:15] <Martin_G4FUI> !dial EDUPIC5
[09:15] <SpacenearUS> 03Martin_G4FUI: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC5 10(4d27): 03434.650192 MHz, 144.7 MHz, 434.65199 MHz, 434.64904 MHz
[09:19] <Upu> yeah not sure its going to be a duration test.. :/
[09:20] <jededu> No going down :) due to the extra gas I had to put in it to overcome the 30mph wind
[09:20] <jededu> :)
[09:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Upu: Where does SpaceNear collect the dial frequencies please?
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[09:21] <DutchMillbt> !dial EDUPIC5
[09:21] <SpacenearUS> 03DutchMillbt: Latest dials for 03EDUPIC5 10(4d27): 03434.49 MHz, 144.7 MHz, 434.65199 MHz, 434.64904 MHz, 434.650192 MHz
[09:21] <jededu> Where does 144.7 come from on the dials
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[09:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MARSCAR_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=MARSCAR_chase
[09:24] <jededu> But it seems to be doing what I expected
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[09:31] <mfa298> the dials list comes from people who've setup rig control between radio and dl-fldigi. I think the bad ones are where it's not setup properly
[09:31] <mfa298> jededu, Steve_G0TDJ ^^^^
[09:31] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cheers mfa298
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[09:33] <jededu> Ahh ok mfa298
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[09:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[09:38] <Herman-PB0AHX> !flights
[09:38] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman-PB0AHX: Current flights: 03MTG002 10(9f1f), 03FOKUS ONE ISM: 434.593MHz 10(a5e0), 03SP5NVX RTTY 144.67 7n1.5/100 10(8de1), 03STRATOCACHING 2 10(c0d6), 03UBSEDS3 10(293e), 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6), 03EDUPIC5 duration test 10(4d27)
[09:38] <Herman-PB0AHX> !dail EDUPIC5
[09:39] <jerry__> what is the frequency for EDUPICS?
[09:39] <Upu> 434.650
[09:39] <jerry__> thanks
[09:40] <Herman-PB0AHX> tnx upu
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[09:43] <pd3jag> whats up today??? something to receive ??????
[09:44] <PE1ANS> mogge Jan
[09:44] <Herman-PB0AHX> pd3jag: yep edupic5 is upe and i hrd him here very very weakly
[09:45] <Herman-PB0AHX> pd3jag: if u give command !flights than u can see
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[09:46] <Herman-PB0AHX> mogge jan
[09:46] <ok1cdj> gm all
[09:46] <Herman-PB0AHX> gm ok1cdj
[09:46] <DutchMillbt> moring ok1cdj
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[09:47] <pd3jag> morge herman
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[09:47] <pd3jag> heve you freq and mode herman off edupic5
[09:48] <Herman-PB0AHX> 434.650 rtty 100/400
[09:49] <Herman-PB0AHX> but he is going down i was also to late
[09:49] <DutchMillbt> pd3jag morning EDUPIC5 is on decend... hard to rec
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[09:51] <pd3jag> oke tnx herman and morning to dutchmilllbt also
[09:51] <pd3jag> morgge ton.
[09:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS_chase_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=UBSEDS_chase_chase
[09:54] <pd3jag> Herman is asci 7baudot none 1,5 stop bits ????? of??
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[09:55] <PD5TON> Moggu Jan
[09:55] <pd3jag> morge ton en HERMAN ik heb het al gevonden hoor .
[09:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> ok normaal 7n2
[09:57] <Herman-PB0AHX> of 7n1
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[09:57] <Herman-PB0AHX> is niet zo krieties
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[10:05] <DutchMillbt> pd3jag next flight is Elysium and a piggybacking plane SEDS a noon +/- ish details : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/Tzg2VEQuJ9w
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[10:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=UBSEDS_chase
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[10:24] <pd3jag> oke dutchmillbt tnx for info , little late for answer you but i was usy with my radio frinds on 144mhz.
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[10:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ELYSIUM - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=ELYSIUM
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[11:00] <Upu> shame about EDUPIC
[11:00] <Upu> was that a foil or a 100g ?
[11:01] <mfa298> I assume foil as I think he was getting rid of the 100g balloons the other day
[11:03] <mfa298> maybe it's a good thing it came down in the sea, apparently there's a high risk of a <2m flight system using a foil balloon taking out the national grid.
[11:03] <Upu> </sarcasm> ?
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[11:05] <mfa298> of course :)
[11:05] <Deano86> Good Morning
[11:05] <mfa298> I read the long set of posts this morning.
[11:07] <mfa298> Interesting location for ubseds_chase, not exactly where you'de expect a chase car to be.
[11:07] <mfa298> I used to walk down by there for about a month going to school
[11:13] <mfa298> seems to have jumped a long way now so I guess just bad data or /mt is doing odd things
[11:17] <mfa298> looking at the path on snus it looks like the chase car gps was doing odd things
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[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS3 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=UBSEDS3
[11:28] <Herman-PB0AHX> on wat time ELYSIUM is fly ??
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[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Very soon
[11:28] <Herman-PB0AHX> Geoff-G8DHE: nice tnx
[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> ish
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[11:33] <G3ZGZ> !payload ELYSIUM
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03G3ZGZ: Payload 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6) 03$$ELYSIUM - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/560Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[11:33] <G3ZGZ> !payload UBSEDS3
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03G3ZGZ: Payload 03UBSEDS3 10(293e) 03$$UBSEDS3 - 03Primary - 03434.6 MHz LSB 03RTTY 50/400Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[11:33] <richardeoin> Trackers for ELYSIUM and UBSEDS3 much appreciated
[11:33] <richardeoin> ELYSIUM should be up within the hour
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Where all sat waiting ....
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> even we're
[11:34] Action: mfa298 wonders if I can hear anything whilst they're still on the ground - probably not quite.
[11:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wow think what they could do for a balloon flight ...... http://www.esa.int/ESA
[11:42] <Deano86> Hey guys, how are you? I am new to this so I am just here to see whats going on :)
[11:43] <Upu> welcome aboard Deano86
[11:44] <Upu> should be a launch shortly
[11:44] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/?filter=ELYSIUM;UBSEDS3
[11:44] <Martin_G4FUI> Hi Deano86 - that's the way to do it - look, learn and join in!
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[11:49] <Deano86> Thank you guys :)
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[11:53] <Deano86> I will join in as best as I can, I am not sure how i can help hehe
[11:54] <Ron_G8FJG> saw this on UKHAS... Lunar Looper, just decoded it at 327,721 km not too strong! http://moon.luxspace.lu/tracking/
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[11:56] <chrisstubbs> Deano86, do you have a radio receiver/SDR that can do 434MHz?
[11:58] <Deano86> no, sorry!
[11:59] <Deano86> I dare say i will do but not at the minute hehe
[12:00] <chrisstubbs> Well thats not a problem, you can still track online. But you will need something that can do 434MHz SSB to actually receive the radio signals from the balloons.
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[12:00] <Martin_G4FUI> Deano86, I presume you have been warned about the potentially addictive nature of this hobby?
[12:01] <Ron_G8FJG> No-one warned me!
[12:01] <Deano86> ah ok, thank you. I can see the website data but I do not have a radio at the moment unfortunately :(
[12:02] <Deano86> Hehe, I can see that this can be very addictive but it looks like a lot of fun!
[12:02] <lz1dev> habbers anonymous
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi Deano86
[12:02] <chrisstubbs> My name is Chris and I am a HABaholic
[12:02] <PE2G> Ron_G8FJG: Nice! 4M with a lot of doppler shift?
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> tell us about your habits, Chris
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[12:03] <Deano86> Hi Chris, my name as you may have guessed is Dean and I am a HABnoobie lol
[12:03] <lz1dev> ever since b-64 launch, I can't sleep
[12:03] <lz1dev> it's been more than a 100 days
[12:04] <lz1dev> what...
[12:04] <lz1dev> what if it never pops?
[12:04] <ulfr> You're doomed.
[12:05] MaXimaN (~maximan@cpc10-croy22-2-0-cust444.19-2.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:05] <MaXimaN> !flights
[12:05] <SpacenearUS> 03MaXimaN: Current flights: 03MTG002 10(9f1f), 03FOKUS ONE ISM: 434.593MHz 10(a5e0), 03SP5NVX RTTY 144.67 7n1.5/100 10(8de1), 03STRATOCACHING 2 10(c0d6), 03UBSEDS3 10(293e), 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6), 03EDUPIC5 duration test 10(4d27)
[12:07] <SA6BSS-Mike> Deano86: you can tune in and decode through web sdr http://websdr.suws.org.uk/
[12:09] <Deano86> do I use dl-fldigi to decode>?
[12:10] <chrisstubbs> Yeah thats the one
[12:10] <Deano86> ok, I will try and get it decoding :)
[12:10] <Deano86> thank you
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[12:13] <chrisstubbs> Looks like ELYSIUM is off
[12:14] <Deano86> I can see it is climbing
[12:14] <G6SUQ_Graham> they're both 'up'
[12:14] <Deano86> nice :D
[12:15] <G6SUQ_Graham> Deano86: whereabouts are you?
[12:15] <Upu> except the altitude isn't updating...
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Elysium is very low flying !
[12:15] <Upu> hope these aren't using the same code... :)
[12:16] <mfa298> 1I can hear some rtty
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah some height data
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> on UBSEDS
[12:19] <fsphil> hopefully this is better than the film
[12:19] <mfa298> UBSEDS looks to be a bit stronger and more like 370 shift
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[12:19] <mfa298> also looks to have the tones reversed
[12:20] <mfa298> I need Rv to get decode on that
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[12:21] <mfa298> these also don't seem to be the strongest of signals, I'd expect something quite good by now.
[12:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> starting to decode ELYSIUM
[12:23] <mfa298> I've gone back to ELYSIUM and it seems to be much weaker than UBSEDS
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[12:24] <mfa298> helps if I turn of Rv
[12:25] <mfa298> s/of/off/
[12:25] <lz1dev> when you make a typo in IRC
[12:25] <lz1dev> it's forever
[12:26] <edmoore> c.f. dogs and christmas
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> yes USEDS3 is Rv for me as well
[12:27] <MatB> !flights
[12:27] <SpacenearUS> 03MatB: Current flights: 03MTG002 10(9f1f), 03FOKUS ONE ISM: 434.593MHz 10(a5e0), 03SP5NVX RTTY 144.67 7n1.5/100 10(8de1), 03STRATOCACHING 2 10(c0d6), 03UBSEDS3 10(293e), 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6), 03EDUPIC5 duration test 10(4d27)
[12:27] <lz1dev> does ELYSIUM have a hardcoded altitude?
[12:28] <mfa298> it does feel like it (although graph showed it change a bit pre launch)
[12:29] <lz1dev> maybe it's pointer rather than the value
[12:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> lot of fading on the sigs for me ..
[12:30] <mfa298> woot, I managed one packet from ELYSIUM
[12:31] <mfa298> but it's mostly partials
[12:31] <G6SUQ_Graham> I can't even find the signals, let alone decode them!
[12:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do we know what sort of aerials they are using ?
[12:31] <mfa298> which considering i'm alsmost in the green circle and it's in the right direction for me isn't promising for that payload
[12:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> They are well above my horizon but not the sort of sig strength I would expect
[12:34] <Deano86> I am in northamptonshire, near Northampton
[12:34] <edmoore> the clue's in the name, really
[12:35] <mfa298> the signal from ELYSIUM doesn't look as clean as the one from UBSEDS either
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hey first green from UBSEDS3
[12:37] <Deano86> does anyone know the signal from elysium?
[12:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial elysium
[12:38] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6): 03434.2503 MHz, 434.2492 MHz
[12:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial ubseds3
[12:38] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS3 10(293e): 03434.599 MHz, 434.597974 MHz, 434.598607 MHz, 434.6 MHz
[12:39] <mfa298> Deano86: it's 50 baud rtty
[12:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah height has come alive on Elysium now wonder if they changed modes ?
[12:39] <G6SUQ_Graham> listening on the SUWS sdr, plenty of signal; on my home set-up I hear nothing!
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial elysium
[12:40] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6): 03434.248952 MHz, 434.25 MHz, 434.250812 MHz, 434.2492 MHz
[12:42] <Upu> SEDS RV or is my kit broken ?
[12:42] <mfa298> Upu: yes
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> No thats right but very stable freq wise
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Elysium has leveled off again ! its going up stairs by the look of it!
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[12:44] <Deano86> I have found the signal I think but it is not showing anything legible yet hehe
[12:45] <Upu> Elysium isn't a great signal
[12:45] <Upu> other one is fine
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you chosen the auto-config in dl-fldigi Deano86 ?
[12:45] <Deano86> no I dont think so
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Select a Flight that your tracking in dl-fldigi
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> then click Auto-configure
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[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> If your listening to UBSEDS3 then you also need to click the Rv button lower right in dl-fldigi
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> they have the tones reversed compared to standard
[12:48] <edmoore> it's a brunch then lunch kind of a day
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[12:49] <Deano86> I am looking at the active flights list but when I refresh it is empty
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[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you refreshed Flight Docs from the dl Client menu ?
[12:50] <Deano86> no I dont think so
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> it normally loads on start-up but maybe it didn't get thru to the server
[12:50] <PE2G> !dial UBSEDS3
[12:50] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS3 10(293e): 03434.597932 MHz, 434.6 MHz, 434.599 MHz
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[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also are you in online mode ?
[12:52] <Deano86> it says WARNING! couldnt set stationary location invalid float
[12:53] <Deano86> Ahh, i set a callsign and now it works
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah you haven't configured it with your location etc.
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> !wiki dl-fldigi
[12:53] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Found 034 results for you query - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/start?do=search&id=dl-fldigi
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[12:53] <Deano86> so how do i configure my location
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?s[]=dl&s[]=fldigi
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[13:00] <Deano86> ok I have set my coordinates I guess I will get a signal when it is nearer to me right?
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> your using the websdr ? You are using the right sound source?
[13:01] <mfa298> Deano86: if you're listening on the websdr you should be able to hear and decode it.
[13:02] <Martin_G4FUI> Deano86, you are on the map! :)
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oops Elysium has a lat/long problem
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[13:03] <jededu> upu it was a foil with too much gas in it :)
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[13:04] <mfa298> looks like padding issues on the decimal part
[13:04] <jededu> There will be 2 more going up early next week as soon as I have more ublox from upu
[13:06] <edmoore> picos are a good business
[13:06] <mfa298> where's Flerb it looks like these could go right over him
[13:06] <edmoore> back in the day we had just the one flight computer and got many many flights out of it
[13:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> edmoore, how did you heat the valves did you use H2 ?
[13:07] <edmoore> who what where?
[13:07] Nick change: fsphil_ -> fsphil
[13:07] <edmoore> i am w/o context on your q, Geoff-G8DHE
[13:07] <jededu> Well my power saving seemed to be working
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> back in your day when you only had one flight computer ......
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> did you use valves then ?
[13:08] <edmoore> oh!
[13:08] <edmoore> sorry
[13:09] <edmoore> yes i thought you meant like high pressure gas valves
[13:09] <edmoore> as they did sometimes freeze
[13:09] <jededu> !payload elysium
[13:09] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03ELYSIUM 10(d7a6) 03$$ELYSIUM - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/560Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[13:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> That's probably climate change then never hear of that these days ;-)
[13:10] <edmoore> filling very impatiently, i think
[13:10] <edmoore> it was the regulator actually
[13:11] <edmoore> adiabatic cooling
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Your mean't to heat a Cathode not cool it!
[13:12] <jededu> !payload UBSEDS3
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> 03jededu: Payload 03UBSEDS3 10(293e) 03$$UBSEDS3 - 03Primary - 03434.6 MHz LSB 03RTTY 50/400Hz ASCII-8 none 2
[13:12] <Ian_> Gas regulator - OA2 ? 150V
[13:12] <edmoore> ?
[13:12] <edmoore> i'm having parsing fail again
[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Google it
[13:13] <edmoore> oh more tubes
[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide?s[]=dl&s[]=fldigi
[13:13] <edmoore> gosh
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[13:13] <edmoore> i'm too young to be here
[13:13] Nick change: Uggy_ -> Uggy
[13:14] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[13:14] Action: SpeedEvil discovers the reason to install a drier on the output of the compressor that nobody tells you.
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> So you don't think it's raining, and pack in.
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[13:15] <edmoore> the 741 is 20 years older than me
[13:18] <Deano86> does UBSEDS3 have a camera onboard?
[13:18] <mfa298> I'm not sure I like the look of those predictions although it's hard to tell which is for the bad payload.
[13:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> No camera mentioned in the launch announcment https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/Tzg2VEQuJ9w/LoL_P7tkEE0J
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[13:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Poor old man he needs an afternoon nap then (edmoore) ;-)
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[13:27] <Upu> these are not easy to recieve
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[13:28] <mfa298> looks like ELYSIUM has been updating its altitude a bit more recently
[13:30] <chrisstubbs> Thats super annoying, remote desktop disables vb audio cable
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[13:31] <Upu> change it in settings
[13:31] <Upu> to keep audio on the remote device
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[13:31] <chrisstubbs> ah on the client, sweet
[13:31] <chrisstubbs> cheers upu
[13:32] <jededu> Upu I think I must have damaged that ublox somehow I just replaced it and it worked
[13:32] <Upu> be interested to know how
[13:32] <Upu> is it still outputting anything ?
[13:32] <jededu> So would I !
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[13:33] <jededu> Oh yes it gets a lock and acts as a heater
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[13:33] <Upu> very odd
[13:33] <Upu> did you say you were ordering some more ?
[13:34] <jededu> Yes maybe today
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[13:35] <jededu> The reg is a tps61016 fixed output not much to get wrong
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[13:40] <Deano86> whats happening with ELYSIUM, the readings are really strange
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[13:45] <Upu> GPS issues, coding issues possibly both
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[13:48] <day-> this is insane :O http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm
[13:49] <Upu> day- DanielRichman
[13:49] <Upu> eh ?
[13:49] <Upu> Day- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf2vatqek_o
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[13:51] <day-> Upu: ?
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[13:53] <Upu> same thing using an SDR
[13:54] <day-> Upu: apparently it can be done with a cheap DVB-T dongle :D
[13:54] <Upu> yup
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> I somewhere have a breadboarded GPS PRN generator using 7486s, jumper-configurable to which PRN
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> Ididdn't get further than that though on my hardware GPS
[13:54] <mfa298> also look up Ed's talk from the 2013 ukhas conference (which I've still not watched)
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> err - not 7486
[13:55] <day-> the math looks daunting :<
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> i mean shift registers
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> day-: It depends
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> day-: GPS - for time only - is quite simple
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> If you don't care about +-90000km or so time error.
[13:55] <day-> i dont even understand how its possible to receive the signal, because the signal itself is less loud than the noise surrounding it :/
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> day-: It depends.
[13:56] <maxmed> Hi, I've discovered that both my arduino and NTX2B have survived my "testing" the other day (which basically involved accidently putting 9v straight into the VCC of everything!). However that means the problem must be with the gps (a Ublox max7 pico breakout board with chip scale antenna). I've measured the resistance between the vcc and gnd pins and it is very very low so shorting the supply. Do i need a complete new board or just repla
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[13:57] <Upu> day- speak to Eroomde next time he's about :)
[13:57] <Upu> or go find his talk from last years UKHAS Conference
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[13:58] <Upu> ah what mfa298 said already
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> day-: In short - GPS transmits a bitstream at 1.023MHz modulating the RF carrier.
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> day-: Each data bit 'chip' - is actually 1023 elements of this code.
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> day-: the reciever knows this code - and for each 1ms data-bit - it multiplies the incoming signals 1023 samples by the 1023 samples of the known code.
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> IYou then either get from this summation a massive positive - a massive negative, or no signal.
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> If it's positive or negative - you just recieved a bit.
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[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Then each bit is transmitted 20 times - forming a data rate of 50bps. In this datastream are 300 bit 'navigation messages' - each of which containing a time, and other data
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> The hard part of GPS is generally dealing with very faint signals
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> And multipath
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> Open-field good signal GPS is easy
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> GPS indoors or in urban canyons is hard.
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[14:02] <day-> SpeedEvil: that makes it less daunting :). I wonder how do the satellites not interfere themselves? Do they send at definied timeslots?
[14:03] <day-> in definied*
[14:03] <bertrik> no, that is genius part of code division multiplexing :)
[14:04] <day-> they all send at the same time, and yet no data mess happens? o0 hows that possible
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> The 1023 element code - PRN - psuedorandom noise - signal is differnet for each on
[14:05] <day-> i see
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[14:06] <sjoerd_> sjoerd has changed nick to to PE1BIA
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[14:06] <day-> and here i am having trouble with my dcf77 receiver :D
[14:07] <maxmed> Any ideas what needs replacing on my GPS?
[14:07] <Upu> if you've put 9v through
[14:07] <Upu> it
[14:07] <Upu> probably the GPS
[14:07] <day-> maxmed: seriously, if you put 9V onto that board, its done
[14:07] <Upu> which board is it ?
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[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Upu: it may be only the G.
[14:08] <day-> Upu: arduino and ntx2b
[14:08] <maxmed> Upu- Ublox max7 pico breakout board with chip scale antenna
[14:08] <Upu> ok so you stuck 9V into it
[14:08] <Upu> ?
[14:08] <maxmed> yeah into vcc
[14:08] <Upu> ouch
[14:09] <Upu> what does it do ? Any output at all ?
[14:09] Nick change: heathkid|4 -> heathkid
[14:09] <G6SUQ_Graham> I would imagine that with 9V on Vcc it probably screamed a bit!
[14:09] <Upu> absolute maximum is 3.6V
[14:09] <day-> i think it was silenced quickly :D
[14:09] <Upu> I know they can take 5V for brief periods
[14:10] <Upu> but 9V ?
[14:10] Nick change: day- -> day
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[14:10] Action: mfa298 hopes that prediction moves (looks like we've just had burst)
[14:10] <day> each time you have a problem, you will not know if its your error or broken hardware
[14:10] <maxmed> as there is no practically no resistance across vcc and gnd i can't test it as computer rejects it, it does get very hot though
[14:10] <day> its gonna be a pain :D
[14:10] <mfa298> currently one is close to maximan around Croydon
[14:11] <Upu> burst or seperation ?
[14:11] <mfa298> I was assuming both are on the same balloon, otherwise tracking ELYSIUM is going to be interesting
[14:12] <mfa298> no update from UBSEDS for 4 minutes ...
[14:13] <Upu> wonder why these university teams make the same mistakes again and again
[14:13] <mfa298> beacuse they think asking for help is a sign of weakness ?
[14:13] <Upu> SEDS is drifting
[14:13] <maxmed> so should I order a complete new one or can a new ublox chip be soldered onto my current board?
[14:13] <mfa298> or would cause them to fail
[14:13] <Upu> Its not worth the time to remove it maxmed
[14:14] <Upu> use coupon UKHAS at check out
[14:14] <jededu> wow thats a drift !
[14:14] <Upu> can't keep up with that
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[14:17] <Upu> died
[14:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh itsdied
[14:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> or jumped a long way!
[14:18] <Upu> I can't see it
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial ubseds3
[14:19] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS3 10(293e): 03434.60356 MHz, 434.59801 MHz, 434.6 MHz, 434.5992 MHz
[14:19] <mfa298> I cant hear anything for ubseds tuning up and down a decent amount
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope its gone
[14:19] <Upu> it just cut off
[14:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> or cut-down ?
[14:20] <Upu> and lol at Elysium
[14:20] <Upu> I mean where is that actually
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[14:20] <BenjaminG> Hello
[14:20] <Upu> hi
[14:21] <BenjaminG> how are you?
[14:21] <Upu> very well thanks
[14:21] <BenjaminG> is somebody willing to help me to get ssdv going?
[14:21] <Upu> sure someone can assist with that have you read the wiki article ?
[14:22] <Upu> I've turned off hab rotate as these positions are oscillating the rotator
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[14:22] <BenjaminG> i am new to this topic but found it quit interessting, i have so far connected my ntx2 with the raspberry and set up my pc to receive data
[14:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Killed mine asw ell now that ubseds3 has gone
[14:22] <Upu> physical result of dodgy programming :)
[14:22] <pd3jag> verry bad signals both ballons.
[14:23] <mfa298> from what I saw earlier that should probably be -1.06 not -1.6
[14:23] <Upu> ok BenjaminG are you transmitting anything ?
[14:23] <BenjaminG> so far i can send simple text messages via rtty and read them
[14:23] <Upu> oh wait a padding error
[14:23] <mattbrejza> is ubseds the same payload we set to france from emf?
[14:23] <mattbrejza> *sent
[14:23] <chrisstubbs> erm
[14:23] Action: chrisstubbs checks his blog
[14:23] <Upu> easy mistake to make a padding error its not like we have one every week
[14:23] <Upu> oh wait
[14:23] <BenjaminG> i am not sure how to use ssdv i have taken a picture and now i dont know how to encode it and send it via the serial on the raspberry
[14:23] <chrisstubbs> "Bristol University SEDS tracker"
[14:23] <chrisstubbs> I think so
[14:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> !wiki ssdv
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Wiki page 03ssdv (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Wiki page 03ssdvforhab (ideas) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:ssdvforhab
[14:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Look at the first link above
[14:24] <Upu> also
[14:24] <mattbrejza> might not be the same tracker though, that was a pico
[14:24] <Upu> its in the source code for the Pi In The Sky
[14:25] Nick change: Upu -> UselessBot
[14:25] <UselessBot> https://github.com/daveake/pi-in-the-sky
[14:25] Nick change: UselessBot -> Upu
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[14:29] <mfa298> past -1.0000 maybe the positions will be good now (shame the altitude has been buggy as well)
[14:29] <BenjaminG> is it enough to wirte ssdv -e -i 0 test.jpg test.txt ?
[14:29] <chrisg7ogx> could someone lower the south downs please?
[14:30] <maxmed> Upu- if i removed chip would you be able to put in new one or is it a pain in the ass?
[14:31] <Upu> I could but not really worth it
[14:31] <Upu> and good luck removing it :)
[14:32] <maxmed> is it just soldered to the surface?
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[14:33] <Upu> it is but do you have hot air rework ?
[14:33] <day> i wonder, why is a dcf77 or gps receiver considered to be a stratum1 device? shouldnt they be stratum2?
[14:33] <Upu> because the source is Stratum 0
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[14:34] <maxmed> no but i have a cunning plan! can't make it any worse!
[14:34] <Upu> take pics maxmed :)
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[14:36] <chrisg7ogx> losing sigs
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[14:37] <chrisg7ogx> gone
[14:37] <BenjaminG> ok i have encoded the picture :)
[14:38] <mfa298> looking at the websdr it looks like it just cut out
[14:38] <mfa298> ah it is down at 75m
[14:38] <chrisg7ogx> yes it was naturally fading here then unaturaly stopped
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[14:39] <chrisg7ogx> been stuck at 75 metres for some time
[14:39] <chrisg7ogx> how tall is an electricity pylon???
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> Do check what the ground altitude is
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> it may well be that
[14:41] <mfa298> the reported altitude on this one might not be believeable all the time
[14:41] <chrisg7ogx> a tree may have grabbed it
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[14:42] <mfa298> OS map says 85-90 and lots of trees
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:42] <chrisg7ogx> elementary my dear Watson!
[14:42] <mfa298> or found by a dog walker
[14:42] <Upu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQrlAgae01A
[14:43] <daveake> I had one that was still moving when we got there
[14:43] <daveake> on a golf trolley
[14:43] <chrisg7ogx> no dog walkers find bodies
[14:43] <chrisg7ogx> lol daveake
[14:44] <BenjaminG> :D
[14:45] <chrisg7ogx> something'scooking downstairs bye.
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[14:54] <BenjaminG> could somebody tell me what was the max baudrate you used in flight for transmitting ssdv images?
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[14:55] <mattbrejza> 600 has been used quite a bit
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[14:57] <BenjaminG> ok thank you
[14:57] <daveake> 1400 :)
[14:58] <daveake> but not with an NTX2
[14:59] <BenjaminG> we (a few students) want to try to send a ballon, too. i have read your website and was fascinated that you could send images with just 10mW (a few of us want to send a transmitter with 1W)
[14:59] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[15:00] <mattbrejza> where are you based BenjaminG ?
[15:00] <BenjaminG> germany
[15:00] <mattbrejza> oh ok (1W wouldnt have been allowed in the UK)
[15:01] <Lunar_Lander> this is an NTX2 in an -80°C freezer (Dec. 21, 2012): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDdDR3bGJjeTd6X0k/view?usp=sharing
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[15:10] <mclane_> BemjaminG where in Germany?
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> BenjaminG: have you done research to find out if 1W is legal to transmit with - airborne?
[15:19] <BenjaminG> yes it is
[15:19] <Lunar_Lander> welcome to UKHAS-DE :)
[15:20] <BenjaminG> thank you :)
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[15:31] <deano86_> hey it looks like UBSEDS3 is on its decent now
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[15:41] <pnephos> Hello. Do you know if there is any dl-fldigi option to send decoded text to another program?
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[15:42] <mfa298> there's an rpc interface you can query which might give you information - or I think you can make it log data to a text file
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[15:42] <mattbrejza> port 7322
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[15:42] <mfa298> or for an online application you can query habitat meaning you see all the uploaded data
[15:43] <x-f> you can also pretend to be a Habhub server by changing the URL where dl-fldigi sends the data
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[15:45] <pnephos> Ok, thank you. I will check these options.
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[15:57] <pnephos> Should I switch on the flight mode of my Ublox NEO-7M GPS every time I restart it? Or does this configuration get saved in the EEPROM?
[15:58] <mfa298> pnephos: most people set it everytime
[15:58] <mfa298> I think you can add an extra eeprom to store settings but most people don't bother
[16:01] <pnephos> mfa298
[16:01] <pnephos> Thank you. I will set it everytime then.
[16:04] <pnephos> The GPS board does have an EEPROM, I don't think it's worth to add another one.
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[16:04] <deano86> hey guys, thank you for your help today, it was really good to see the flight and how it all works!
[16:04] <deano86> I cant wait to learn more and have my own one soon
[16:04] <craag> Some of the NEO boards do have the EEPROM, but you should at least still check flight mode each time you restart
[16:05] <craag> The consequences of not - potentially losing tracking!
[16:06] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[16:13] <pnephos> Got it. ;) By the way, do you think it is a good idea to use three diodes with a voltage drop of 0.6V to communicate with the GPS module? (Arduino digital pins are 5V and the GPS RX pin is rated 3.6V max).
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[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[16:21] <day> cant you run the arduino at 3.3V?
[16:22] <qyx_> you have multiple options, resistor divider (ugh), resistor and zener (better), opendrain fet & some resistors, voltage translator (even better)
[16:22] <qyx_> or run the whole thing at 3V3
[16:22] <pnephos> day: I don't think so. There's a 3.3V power pin but the digital pins work at 5V.
[16:22] <Upu> no pnephos
[16:22] <Upu> use a 3.3V Arduino
[16:22] <Upu> or use a level convertor
[16:23] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[16:24] <edmoore> you could use 3 diodes though
[16:25] <Upu> you could
[16:25] <Upu> or some resistors and a fet
[16:28] <qyx_> or check maximum allowable input injected current and use just one resistor :X
[16:28] <qyx_> I said nothing
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[16:30] <edmoore> work them diodes
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[17:12] <day> is 3.3V the standard? i got the feeling that 1.8V is being pushed hard
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[17:14] <day> nvm im dumb :D
[17:15] <edmoore> 1.8V is popular in low power consumer electronics and low power flight computers
[17:15] <edmoore> but i don't think it's the norm for conventional flight computers
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[17:16] <edmoore> the added annoyance is often not worth the power saving unless you're hoping to last for days of a single cell
[17:16] <day> well its just the result of shrinkage. sooner or later 1.8V will be the standard
[17:16] <day> at least thats how i understand it
[17:21] <Mirici> 2^16
[17:26] <Upu> Unless you really need to last for days stick with 3.3V
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[17:32] Nick change: uwe__ -> uwe_
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[17:51] <MaXimaN> Tried receiving Elysium (remotely) earlier, but struggled to get a clear signal
[17:52] <MaXimaN> Definitely need to sort out my setup. Since I switched coax performance has been poo
[17:53] <MaXimaN> How did everyone else fare?
[17:55] <mfa298> MaXimaN: they wern't that good
[17:55] <mfa298> Elysium seemed to be worse than UBSEDS
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[18:03] <edusupport> No good here very poor signal
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[18:42] <day> who buys this crap? http://www.ebay.com/itm/FE-5680A-Rubidium-Atomic-Frequency-Standard-10MHz-SMA-OUTPUT-0-5M-CABLE-/290709958177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43afa9ee21
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[18:51] <day> its surely a 'want to have item'. but its used. costs 200bucks. and they are meant to last ~10years.
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:01] <mfa298> I assume there are a few people that need such a source (I'm assuming it's a very accurate 10MHz source)
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[19:03] <day> ofc it accurate :P average deviation of 3* 10^-15
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> They used to be $50 or so before eevblog
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[19:26] <nats`> people often make the error to use rubidium clock without having a pll in the path
[19:26] <nats`> (I saw it already)
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[19:36] <day> nats`: i guess most use it simply as a uC clock
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[19:38] <day> and tbh. i would have done the same :x
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[20:00] Nick change: lilafisc1 -> lilafisch
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[20:25] <jarod> http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/8166-Alan-Eustace-s-record-breaking-high-altitude-jump-as-tracked-on-FR24!?p=58416#post58416
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[20:39] <MaXimaN> In better news I passed my Foundation exam today :)
[20:40] <daveake> :)
[20:44] <day> nats`: why is a pll necessary?
[20:45] <mfa298> MaXimaN: well done. Next step intermediate :)
[20:45] <mfa298> as well as getting the callsign and radio, and getting more contacts than some people here (that's not hard!)
[20:45] <craag> well done MaXimaN !
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[20:48] <Upu> congrats M6MAX (suspect it will be taken)
[20:54] <MaXimaN> Heheh thanks :)
[20:54] <MaXimaN> The earliest Intermediate course/exam I could find is at the end of Jan
[20:58] <MaXimaN> The old list from 2013 shows that MAX is taken at all levels - but XER is still available ;)
[20:59] <MaXimaN> (or was) :D
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[21:01] <DL7AD> good evening
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi sven
[21:01] <mfa298> MaXimaN: if you search what do they know I think you'll find some newer lists of what's been allocated
[21:02] <DL7AD> hi :)
[21:02] <mfa298> some of the names might be familiar
[21:02] <MaXimaN> qrz.com is the source I@ll use
[21:09] <mfa298> MaXimaN: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/list_of_available_amateur_radio_2#incoming-553977
[21:11] <Upu> willdude asks this one every few weeks
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[21:12] <mfa298> there was another matching request near that from someone often on this channel
[21:12] <mfa298> and not willdude
[21:17] <MaXimaN> mfa298: Thanks!
[21:18] <mfa298> I was surprised how far I had to go back, normally someone has requested it fairly recently
[21:18] <MaXimaN> Had to chuckle. Alan Betts was one of the invigilators at the exam. Nice guy.
[21:19] <Upu> yeah he came along to the conference last year to invigilate
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[21:20] <DL7AD> kHe89Js2duWc9d7F
[21:20] <Upu> good password
[21:21] <DL7AD> yeah it is. but i never used it
[21:21] <DL7AD> .
[21:21] <DL7AD> :P
[21:21] <MaXimaN> It's okay, when you type your password on here it just appears as asterisks
[21:21] <Upu> any more
[21:21] <MaXimaN> Look
[21:21] <Upu> :)
[21:21] <MaXimaN> ***********
[21:21] <MaXimaN> etc
[21:21] <DL7AD> i was kdding
[21:21] <DL7AD> :D
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:22] <jarod> http://9gag.com/gag/aqZGj6Y omg guys... super antenna location !
[21:22] <DL7AD> rofl
[21:22] <MaXimaN> Creepy, but staged
[21:23] <MaXimaN> It's been all over the Intarwebs
[21:23] <DL7AD> http://9gag.com/gag/a2P1Z71
[21:24] <MaXimaN> BBC News have been putting up articles for days now
[21:24] <MaXimaN> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29717771
[21:24] <MaXimaN> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29687769
[21:25] <MaXimaN> House of Lords to vote on it too, apparently
[21:25] <MaXimaN> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/drones-permit-uk-british-airline-pilots-association-unmanned-aircraft-house-of-lords
[21:26] <MaXimaN> Committee, rather
[21:28] <richardeoin> mattbrejza: chrisstubbs: Hey
[21:28] <richardeoin> UBSEDS3 was the same design as we flew at emf
[21:28] <chrisstubbs> Ah cool
[21:28] <richardeoin> More details, yet to be updated http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/pico-tracker/balloon/launch/2014/10/26/ubseds3.html
[21:29] <chrisstubbs> looks like things got a bit cold?
[21:29] <richardeoin> I think so
[21:29] <Upu> what radio was it ?
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[21:30] <richardeoin> Upu: It was a Si4060
[21:30] <richardeoin> Full source etc. https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker
[21:30] <Upu> ok the one in our glider had problems on the way down
[21:30] <Upu> GPS
[21:30] <Upu> I think your TCXO bottomed out
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[21:31] <richardeoin> Completely different to the ELYSIUM tracker btw
[21:31] <richardeoin> Upu: https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker/blob/master/hardware/notes/Parts.md
[21:31] <Upu> it went into catostrophodrift mode before dropping dead
[21:31] <richardeoin> Could that have been temperature related?
[21:31] <Upu> yep but thats the same crystal as I use
[21:31] <Upu> and the radio never packed up
[21:32] <Upu> the huge drift was the TCXO giving up
[21:32] <Upu> so suspect it was super cold
[21:32] <richardeoin> Upu: Are there any other reasons why a TCXO could die?
[21:32] <Upu> its likely to have hit -60
[21:33] <richardeoin> The "internal temperature" is the Si4060 die temperature
[21:33] <Upu> so maybe some insulation next time which I know is hard
[21:33] <Upu> also
[21:33] <Upu> maybe a snub nose
[21:33] <Upu> on the plane next time
[21:33] <richardeoin> Here's a better picture: https://twitter.com/richardeoin/status/526338024918241280
[21:34] <richardeoin> Upu: More like the ones you flew ;-)
[21:34] <Upu> ava.upuaut.net/?p=650
[21:34] <Upu> also
[21:34] <Upu> ours were a better colour :)
[21:34] <richardeoin> :-)
[21:35] <Upu> but yes ours also exhibited issues on decent
[21:35] <richardeoin> Can I double check that the padding errors were on Elysium?
[21:35] <mattbrejza> hey richardeoin
[21:35] <Upu> yes you had some
[21:35] <richardeoin> Upu: UBSEDS3 had padding errors?
[21:35] <Upu> no
[21:36] <Upu> signal was nice and solid
[21:36] <Upu> weak antenna (was it mounted vertically ?)
[21:36] <richardeoin> Yes, the antenna was poor to fit with the paper plane
[21:37] <richardeoin> It was mounted as a "dipole"
[21:37] <richardeoin> so no ground plane, just the board and the gps antenna
[21:37] <richardeoin> radiation pattern was probably awful
[21:37] <Upu> it worked
[21:38] <richardeoin> The Elysium tracker was transmitting the wrong location on the ground for over an hour
[21:38] <mattbrejza> people here are spoilt these days, you gave them a challenge for once ;)
[21:39] <Upu> dunno what elysium had in it
[21:39] <Upu> signal was rubbish
[21:39] <Upu> padding errors
[21:39] <mfa298> UBSEDS signal generally seemed to be better than elysium although both were weaker than I would have expected
[21:39] <richardeoin> Elysium was a custom tracker by the marsballoon guys
[21:40] <richardeoin> Black box about 100 x 80 x 80 mm, I didn't see inside
[21:40] <Upu> who did that one ?
[21:40] <richardeoin> Upu: ?
[21:40] <Upu> the black box
[21:41] <richardeoin> Upu: The leader of the marsballoon project put it together
[21:41] <richardeoin> I believe they used it on previous flights
[21:42] <richardeoin> mfa298: Hopefully future flights will just have a quarter wave, like UBSEDS2 did http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/posts/ubseds2/payload.jpg
[21:43] <Upu> nice little board that
[21:43] <richardeoin> Upu: Thank you
[21:43] <richardeoin> UBSEDS4 and 5 are sitting on my desk
[21:43] <Upu> I may be getting some 1.8V VC-TCXO's
[21:43] <Upu> rated to -40'C
[21:43] <richardeoin> so hopefully you'll be seeing them soon
[21:43] <Upu> is that an antenova
[21:43] <Upu> ?
[21:44] <richardeoin> Upu: UBSEDS2 was an antenova
[21:44] <Upu> old school
[21:44] <Upu> anyway stop going after Dave and I's record
[21:44] <Upu> :)
[21:44] <richardeoin> Abandoned for your MAX M8Cs on 3 onwards ;-)
[21:44] <Upu> I approve
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[21:45] <Upu> may all your balloons burst below 31848 meters
[21:45] <richardeoin> Haha :-)
[21:45] <richardeoin> I was a bit conflicted about letting the paper plane go because of the dubious legal reading
[21:45] <Upu> did it cut away today ?
[21:45] <richardeoin> But I decided to be weak and let marsballoon make the call
[21:46] <Upu> oh yeah highest point was 31311m
[21:46] <richardeoin> on the basis it was their NOTAM
[21:46] <Upu> shame
[21:46] <Upu> :)
[21:46] <edmoore> is 31km the paper airplane alt record?
[21:46] <Upu> nah
[21:46] <Upu> its lower
[21:46] <richardeoin> The paper plane was *inside* the balloon
[21:47] <Upu> and yes I know thats actually really low
[21:47] <edmoore> yeah
[21:47] <Upu> unofficial is Dave and me @ 31848
[21:47] <Upu> we'll do it again properly
[21:47] <richardeoin> So it was released at burst :-)
[21:47] <edmoore> suggests no one has really bothered to have a go at it yet
[21:47] <Upu> well we has this super plan
[21:47] <Upu> 2 gilders
[21:47] <Upu> geofences
[21:47] <Upu> one cut at 31km
[21:47] <Upu> the other at 40km
[21:47] <Upu> but then the wind went mental
[21:48] <daveake> We went for "landing in Holland without dropping over the UK", rather than altitude :p
[21:48] <edmoore> ikea now do motorised standing desks
[21:48] <Upu> and we only managed to get the balloon off the ground with the 31km one
[21:48] <edmoore> i am getting work to get me one, come what may
[21:48] <Upu> We'll have another go at it
[21:48] <Upu> as I don't think we managed our full potential for sillyness and shinannighans
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[21:49] <richardeoin> Upu: marsballoon suggested having an inter-university paper-plane off
[21:49] <Upu> well just watch the legislation
[21:50] <Upu> if in doubt the North Sea is nice this time of year
[21:50] <edmoore> :)
[21:50] <richardeoin> If he manages to get something in the NOTAM then yes
[21:50] <edmoore> a paper-plane-off, if altitude, sounds more like a balloon alt attempt
[21:50] <edmoore> the paper aeroplane release is a kind of secondary detail
[21:51] <craag> could be a distance-travelled-from-release
[21:51] <richardeoin> He was thinking ground distance
[21:51] <craag> then burst alt is important
[21:51] <Upu> 64 miles
[21:51] <Upu> for SNOW :)
[21:51] <craag> but not all of it
[21:51] <edmoore> launch on a windy day
[21:51] <craag> Yeah would have to be simulataneous launch
[21:51] <Upu> sorry
[21:51] <richardeoin> They would all be released from the same flight
[21:51] <Upu> 63km
[21:51] <edmoore> ah i see
[21:51] <edmoore> that makes more sense
[21:52] <richardeoin> It was quite strange putting the plane in the balloon before the helium
[21:52] <edmoore> so you want to go in the direction of the wind then just make a paper aeroplane with a really good glide ratio and good stability
[21:52] <richardeoin> I think I have a photo..
[21:53] <Upu> so did you get both payloads back richardeoin ?
[21:53] <edmoore> i think gliders can have glide ratios of 40:1
[21:54] <edmoore> assuming that holds at different reynolds numbers (waves hands) then you could be talking like 1000km
[21:54] <Upu> would love to let a real model glider go
[21:54] <Upu> with an autopilot
[21:54] <Upu> but again
[21:54] <richardeoin> UBSEDS3 is lost, Elysium recovered after about 3 hours wandering around a forest
[21:54] <Upu> legislation
[21:54] <Upu> oh ok cool
[21:55] <Upu> glad it decided to transmit where it was eventually
[21:55] <Upu> someone needs to have a look at the code on that
[21:55] <richardeoin> Yeah
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[21:56] <edmoore> mars are the guys that flew and lost the cuddly toy last year?
[21:56] <richardeoin> Upu: marsballoon said they'd like to use ubseds trackers in future
[21:56] <mfa298> would be interesting to see different Uni engineering dept's attempts at paper planes from altitude - see how badly some of them fail :p
[21:56] <craag> thinking of any in particular mfa298 ? ;)
[21:56] <daveake> cruelty to cuddly toys? Outrageous :)
[21:56] <edmoore> it was the stem hedgehog thing
[21:57] <edmoore> iirc
[21:57] <richardeoin> https://i.imgur.com/xrirbAT.jpg
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[21:57] <richardeoin> UBSEDS 3 being loaded into the balloon :p
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[21:58] <richardeoin> Upu: The -40°C rated VC-TCXOs would be awesome btw
[21:58] <Upu> they are likely to be £9 each ...
[21:59] <richardeoin> Oh... :-(
[21:59] <edmoore> just make sure you have a TCV to run them
[22:00] <richardeoin> I wonder how much a TCXO can be tuned by varying the internal Si4060 capacitance
[22:00] <edmoore> probably not much
[22:00] <edmoore> tcxo outputs are usually buffered
[22:00] <edmoore> suspect the resonant element within has absolutely no idea what its driving
[22:01] <richardeoin> good point
[22:01] <richardeoin> hence why they need power
[22:01] <edmoore> yep
[22:03] <DL7AD> good night
[22:04] <richardeoin> Could anyone offer advice on ublox M8 power saving modes.. ?
[22:04] <richardeoin> Potentially a thorny question
[22:04] <Upu> certainly
[22:04] <richardeoin> I've read the relevant bits of the protocol spec http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-bloxM8_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_(UBX-13003221).pdf
[22:04] <edmoore> have a star
[22:04] <edmoore> amazing how many people don't
[22:04] <Upu> Step 1 : Make sure you're only using GPS GNSS (Turn them off in CFG-GNSS)
[22:05] <richardeoin> Done on the flight today :)
[22:05] <Upu> yes you can have an Ed point for that one, and Ed points don't come lightly
[22:05] <Upu> Step 2 : When you have a lock and > 4 sats just enable power save mode
[22:05] <Upu> Step 3 : Don't mess with anything else
[22:06] <Upu> Step 4 (Optional) if you drop below 4 sats recommend you switch back to max performance mode
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> i think i solved the question of how to do WSPR
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/small_tx_loop_calc.aspx
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> use a copper foil 15M loop antenna
[22:06] <richardeoin> Enable power save mode using UBX-CFG-RXM ?
[22:07] <richardeoin> And don't mess with the multiude of options in UBX-CFG-PM2
[22:07] <Upu> exactly that
[22:08] <Upu> it won't go into PSM if you are using the default multi GNSS
[22:08] <Upu> See CFG-GNSS
[22:08] <Upu> just check with u-center on how to turn it off
[22:09] <Upu> that lot is known to work
[22:09] <Upu> feel free to experiment to see if you can squeeze anything else out of it
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[22:11] <edmoore> gold star can be exchanged for 2 gold stars upon presentation of a wiki page describing what you've done
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:11] <edmoore> with average current figures
[22:11] Action: Laurenceb_ is going slightly insane
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> more insane than normal
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> WSPR is actually doable.. unless i got it wrong
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[22:11] <Laurenceb_> 1.5m alu foil loop, 4mm foil strip
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[22:13] <mattbrejza> hmm helps to connect all VCC pins to 3.3V
[22:13] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: sounds like you might have to get back into launching balloons
[22:13] <mattbrejza> i blame ST for adding more VCC pins for the higher end ones >.>
[22:13] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: cool
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: well it lets you overvolt the stm32f4 core
[22:15] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: what fw do you aim for?
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> i still want to try that
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> fw?
[22:15] <Rebounder> s/fw/fq
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> well VK9YT did 15 m band iirc
[22:16] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb_: ive gone from 052 -> 072, PF6/7 are now supply pins
[22:16] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: what values were you plugging in
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[22:17] <Laurenceb_> 5m length, 0.25cm, 14mhz, 0.01W
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> but the trick is not to use solid conductor
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> thats a massive waste of mass
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> using alu foil ~0.3cm wide
[22:19] <mfa298> looks interesting
[22:20] <mfa298> and based on the comments on there could potentially be smaller: Conductor length should be between 2.60 and 5.20 meters at the specified frequency of 14 MHz.
[22:21] <mfa298> although that kills the efficiency
[22:21] <mattbrejza> is there a reason for not having a long >2m antenna and launching under a notam?
[22:22] <mfa298> I assume this is thinking about doing it on a Leo style floater
[22:23] <mfa298> although I wonder if you could be naughty and do a >2m off centre fed dipole and pretend the balloon and payload are <2m
[22:24] <mattbrejza> is there a reason not to float a >2m?
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> CAA have a rule about overall size
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> so i was investigating compact antenna
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> looks like this is a way to do it with <2grams mass
[22:26] <mfa298> I assume cost and ease (making a larger version of a Leo balloon will have more area for defects)
[22:28] <mfa298> there could be some benefit aiming for a slightly larger system with notam.
[22:28] <mfa298> homemade balloon and aiming to float at around 12km still.
[22:29] <mfa298> but not being resticted to 2m would allow for a dipole and a bit of extra weight
[22:30] <mfa298> and probably a lot more efficient than those compact loops
[22:31] <mfa298> the best efficiency I saw on that was ~50%, assuming that's based on dBi a dipole would be around +5db on that
[22:31] <mfa298> which at low power could make a real difference
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: a discrete antenna, or etching the balloon?
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly the alu is about 1 to 2 microns on the envelope
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> actually that might be enough
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> skin depth is about ten times that
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> so ~3cm strip
[22:44] <mfa298> the only real reason I can see for keeping the antenna physically small is to reduce the impact if it came down on power lines. But if we've got a balloon with a decent chance of long term float (aka B-64 mk2) then the benefit's potentially outweigh the risks
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> or just loop of foil around the envelope
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> thats got about the same area as the loop antenna i was just talking about
[22:46] <qyx_> i think that the power lines wouldn't even notice some sub milimeter wire
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> i dodnt know
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> power lines are pretty unstable
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> they can form nasty arcs
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[22:48] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqKcFNSgd6Q
[22:48] <qyx_> i have seen kids trying to hang 1 meter piece of wire on power lines
[22:48] <day> im skipping through the bristol seds pico tracker github project. isnt a arm cortex m0+ not a bit overkill, for a simple gps tracker?
[22:48] <qyx_> it was like 3-4mm thick
[22:48] <mfa298> power lines themselves might be ok, but fuses might trip or in the wrong area any sparks could lead to fires etc.
[22:48] <qyx_> it made some arcing and melted instantly, hot pieces falling down
[22:48] <qyx_> it was 400V
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> power lines are up to 400kv
[22:49] <qyx_> yep, but you would need extremely big antenna for those :P
[22:50] <ulfr> it's highly unlikely that it'd cause fuses to trip
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> balloons with wires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward
[22:50] <ulfr> I doubt the powerplant would even notice it.
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats why its useful to reduce the size
[22:50] <mfa298> big antennas flying near power lines are fine until your the one that causes a UK wide black out, or bush fires in the australian outback.
[22:51] <mfa298> likelyhood may not be that high but the impact could be huge
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> "In July, a second launch site was set up at Oldstairs Bay near Dover.[12] On 12 July 1942, a wire-carrying balloon struck a 110,000-volt power line near Leipzig. A failure in the circuit breaker at the Böhlen power station caused a fire that destroyed the station;[1] this was Outward's greatest success."
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[22:54] <ulfr> It's actually amazing that this worked.
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[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:55] <ulfr> And I wonder how many balloons they released.
[22:55] <mfa298> also from the mailing list yesterday: (an electricity supply was taken out in the US by a foil balloon)
[22:55] <ulfr> ie, what the success rate was
[22:55] <mfa298> I'm not sure that I totally believe it but still
[22:56] <ulfr> electricity falling out in the states is no surprise to me.
[22:56] <qyx_> ulfr: 99K
[22:56] <ulfr> I've seen some of their "infrastructure".
[22:56] <ulfr> qyx_: hahaha...
[22:56] <qyx_> A total of 99,142 Outward balloons were launched: 53,343 carried incendiaries and 45,599 carried steel wires
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> and they got 1000/day in Felixstowe says the IEEE PDF you can get at the bottom of the article
[22:57] <ulfr> A person sneazes in the wrong direction and half of a town is in a blackout.
[22:58] <qyx_> they mentioned regulating altitude by dropping ballast
[22:58] <qyx_> i wonder how it worked
[22:58] <mfa298> whilst it would need to hit a power line in the right area (possibly harder in the northern hemisphere) I'd think the vapourising antenna causing major fires could be a much worse risk
[22:58] <ulfr> Yes, but still. in those cases the brits were *trying* to cause harm.
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> "The team retrieved a report that
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> showed that in the period from March
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> 1942 through the end of January 1943,
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> there were 520 major disturbances on
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> German high-voltage lines of 110 kV
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> and higher. In that same period, there
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> had been about 25,000 Outward bal-
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> loons launched. Belgian, Dutch, and
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> French transmission lines also suf-
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> fered. In France alone, over the entire
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> program, there were 4,946 recorded
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> incidents of power interruptions. The
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> postwar assessment reports were quite
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> specifi c in most cases about Operation
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> Outward balloons being the cause of
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> the damage cited."
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah damn
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> here http://sites.ieee.org/ny-monitor/files/2011/09/OPERATION-OUTWARD.pdf
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[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> page 5 says how altitude control worked qyx_
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Neat
[23:05] <mikestir> <day> im skipping through the bristol seds pico tracker github project. isnt a arm cortex m0+ not a bit overkill, for a simple gps tracker? <- they're really cheap
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> Plus, there is a really good case for doing all your small dev work on one constant platform
[23:08] <mikestir> m0(+) isn't really that powerful either in comparison to m3/m4. It's a very good 8-bit replacement.
[23:09] <mikestir> which is exactly what it strives to be
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[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[23:15] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: cool that work is going forward.
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[23:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Surely its not the wire itself that causes problems, its the resulting PLASMA discharge.
[23:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Once the wire has vapourised the resulting plasma continues to conduct and provides a very low impeadance circuit
[23:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> its this that causes the problems.
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[23:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> rofl figure 2
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> birdemic level
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[00:00] --- Mon Oct 27 2014