highaltitude.log.20141013

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[08:26] <jededu> I have an issue with ucenter, when I save the config GNSS>File I am missing some of the output I get this 0x06, 0x11, 0x02, 0x00, 0x08, 0x01 and according to upu's reference I should get this 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x11, 0x02, 0x00, 0x08, 0x01, 0x22, 0x92 first two and last two are missing
[08:26] <jededu> What am I doing wrong?
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[09:22] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[09:55] <Laurenceb> wtf
[09:55] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vu-6wWvUyIw#t=249
[09:55] <Laurenceb> im calling bs
[09:56] <Maxell> the 10 kms?
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[09:57] <Maxell> oh plane
[09:57] <Maxell> too much focus, too slow?
[09:57] <Maxell> doesnt feel right
[09:57] <mattbrejza> well the camera has a time on it, and persumably date somewhere
[09:58] <mattbrejza> -> flightradar and have a look?
[09:58] <Laurenceb> looks a bit fake
[09:58] <Laurenceb> camera panning is too convenient
[09:58] <mattbrejza> yea i was thinking that
[09:58] <Laurenceb> i guess the reflections look sort of right
[09:59] <Laurenceb> also audio seems wrong if its all in real time
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[09:59] <Laurenceb> sound builds up at a weird rate
[10:02] <Laurenceb> hehe Monroe in the comments
[10:02] <Maxell> "Having looked into this farther I see this is actually a compilation of several "missions" and this flyby is not part of the original mission. So there is no proof that that mission had a reflector. If we can get the aircraft's registration number I can get to the bottom of this"
[10:03] <Laurenceb> faaakkkkeee
[10:05] <ReadError> Laurenceb http://i.imgur.com/cZn25SX.png
[10:05] <ReadError> this is how you can tell its fake
[10:06] <Maxell> uhm?
[10:07] <Laurenceb> lold
[10:09] <craag> hehe
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[10:14] <DL7AD_mobile> Upu UpuWork : got my bits finally :)
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[11:05] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Videos of presentations given at #EMFcamp 2014 near Bletchley Park are now online see https://t.co/pXkJ4xtmyf #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
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[11:08] <jededu> Sorted my uCenter problem :)
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[11:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 032e0cms-9_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=2e0cms-9_chase
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[12:18] <Haxxa> so I'm new here say I want to get the cheapest associated costs that will will bring some electronics thousands of feat into the air how much would I very roughly pay - how much is this hobby
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[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Haxxa - Where are you in the world?
[12:21] <Haxxa> aus
[12:21] <Haxxa> Australia
[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> OK There are a few Aus HAB people as I understand.
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[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> If I talk in GBP will you get a rough idea?
[12:22] <craag> Regulations are a bit strange over there I think, you might want to talk to Darkside
[12:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> That's the guy, cheers Phil
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[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> Haxxa: Are you proficient at building electronic devices?
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[12:23] <Haxxa> yes I have built sensors for antarica
[12:23] <Haxxa> - very tough climate conditions
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[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> Familiar with Microcontrollers?
[12:23] <Haxxa> yes
[12:24] <Haxxa> electronics are all sorted
[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> You're alfway there
[12:24] <Haxxa> balloon aspect is not
[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Half way
[12:24] <Haxxa> also I know people to contact to notify if I need to deploy balloon
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[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Well, I have launched 2 balloons so I may not be the best to ask
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[12:25] <Steve_G0TDJ> I have launched the smaller balloons )Pico size)
[12:25] <Haxxa> sure how much did it cost you - minus electronics
[12:25] <Haxxa> a birthday balloon?
[12:25] <craag> all depends how high you want to do
[12:25] <Steve_G0TDJ> The 36in Foil balloon is around £4GBP and Helium from eBay was £30 for a tank and I still have lots left.
[12:25] <Haxxa> just kidding
[12:26] <craag> but a normal big latex balloon about 70 quid maybe
[12:26] <Steve_G0TDJ> Haxxa: It's very similar to a birthday balloon, yes
[12:26] <craag> then about the same of helium
[12:26] <Haxxa> lets say enough to take a photo and notice curve of earth or above 40,000 feat atleast....
[12:26] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yeah, I was getting on to that. If you want to launch a large payload and go up to 30-40,000m you need a Latex balloon
[12:26] <craag> Haxxa: http://habhub.org/calc/
[12:27] <Steve_G0TDJ> Definitely a latex then, Thanks again Phil.
[12:27] <craag> That calculator will tell you how much helium for a given balloon, payload weight and target altitude
[12:27] <craag> and vice vera
[12:27] <fsphil> you'll need to get to at least 25km to get a hint of a curve
[12:27] <fsphil> even then it's quite subtle
[12:27] <daveake> To get curve: a) Buy a GoPro 2) Climb nearest hill
[12:28] <craag> heh
[12:28] <Haxxa> so its always helium?
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[12:28] <craag> You can use hydrogen
[12:28] <craag> just read and follow all precautions
[12:29] <Haxxa> do you guys have spair tanks sitting at home?
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[12:30] <craag> The big cylinders tend to be on hire
[12:30] <craag> so usually get them for a month, do a launch or two, and return them
[12:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> The Helium tanks we get on eBay over here are 'Disposable' Some of the guys pay a monthly fee to hire a tank.
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[12:31] <craag> Yeah disposable are good for party balloons
[12:31] <craag> you'll need a lot to fill a big latex though!
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[12:34] <Haxxa> does $100 hire for a tank sound about right fills -100 -250 ballons
[12:35] <craag> you'll want to know it's capacity
[12:35] <craag> ideally in m^3
[12:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> How big is a tank?
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[12:36] <Haxxa> 1 meter high thats all I can really say from picture - all rough estimates at the moment anyway
[12:37] <Steve_G0TDJ> I think it would be helpful for you to chat to Darkside because he will have local knowledge.
[12:37] <Haxxa> ok night
[12:38] <craag> He's one of the guys behind http://projecthorus.org/
[12:38] <Steve_G0TDJ> Goodnight Haxxa
[12:39] <Steve_G0TDJ> Haxxa: In case you're still there, on the front of Darksides website "We're always keen to hear from anybody who'd like to get involved in high altitude ballooning. Whether you're looking at launching your own high altitude balloon, or you would like to fly an experiment aboard one of our payloads, we'd love to hear from you!"
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[15:05] <ScottM85> OK, I take back what I said about the Arduino Nano clone I bought - it's shit, it keeps resetting
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[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX3 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VORTEX3
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[17:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VORTEX2
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[18:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC4 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC4
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[18:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=VORTEX1
[18:10] <M0JCU> All Vortices checked out for the first flight
[18:11] <M0JCU> Earliest launch time is now Wednesday
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[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> I have to say something about the NTX2B
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> today we put a breadboarded NTX2B with an Arduino Uno in our superfreezer at -80°C and put a DS18B20 next to it
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> we could receive good data down to -54°C and we never had to retune the dial
[18:24] <craag> what happened below -54?
[18:24] <myself> division by aboslute zero
[18:24] <craag> I'd guess the avr timing was a way out by then
[18:24] <myself> thermodynamics halted
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> the lines in dl-fldigi were blurred and did S-curves
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[18:30] <jededu> My MTX2 was still going at -52 during a recent flight :)
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> nice :)
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> we also thought that the 9V-Block maybe didn't like the cold so much
[18:36] <fsphil> for a fair test you need external power
[18:37] <fsphil> or if you're testing a full payload then some AA lithiums
[18:37] <craag> yeah
[18:37] <craag> and external drive
[18:37] <fsphil> but it would be interesting to find out how the ntx2b does at -80
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:38] <fsphil> yea true, external microcontroller
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> will see if I can repeat that
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> just need some long enough wires :)
[18:38] <craag> doing each would be good
[18:38] <craag> jsut the ntx2
[18:39] <craag> then just the avr
[18:39] <craag> then write it up on the wiki :)
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[18:39] <fsphil> science!
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:41] <craag> bonus prints for writing it up while sitting in the freezer
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:41] <craag> *points
[18:47] <fsphil> haha
[18:47] <fsphil> could also measure current draw as the temperature drops
[18:48] <fsphil> we always measure these things while they're in a warm room
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> sounds interesting
[18:49] <craag> mm that'd be good
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:53] <jededu> My board pulls 12.3ma while sending beeps and 28ma transmitting :)
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[18:55] <myself> How do you get accurate current measurement for a load that's not steady-state? I've always found that DMMs suck for that.
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> that is low currenty
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> -y
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> my board uses 70 mA roundabout
[18:55] <myself> I've thought about charging up a big cap and measuring its drain..
[18:55] <fsphil> the ntx2 is pretty steady
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[18:56] <craag> You can use a series resistor and sample voltage at high speed with another microcontroller
[18:56] <craag> if you don't have a storage scope handy
[18:57] <fsphil> good question though
[18:57] <jededu> It is quite steady tried it on a scope and meter while its idling it hardly changes
[18:57] <fsphil> maybe some DMMs can measure current over time
[18:57] <fsphil> none of mine do
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[19:07] <myself> Oooh. Then use the scope's math channel to multiply the current channel times the voltage channel and graph power :)
[19:07] <craag> :)
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> yay
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[19:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03B-64 after 034 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=B-64
[19:15] <jcoxon> ooooo
[19:15] <jededu> wow
[19:15] <jcoxon> alaska
[19:16] <mikestir> <fsphil> maybe some DMMs can measure current over time <-- I have a couple of cheap tenma ones that can log current via a serial cable, but the sample rate is quite low so aliasing can be a problem
[19:17] <daveake> The B that never dies
[19:18] <jcoxon> its awesome
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[19:18] <mattbrejza> whats its fastest round trip now? it wasnt in alaska that long ago now
[19:18] <jcoxon> it looks like its speeding up
[19:18] <Rebounder> evening
[19:18] <jcoxon> 93days in total
[19:19] <mattbrejza> it seems to be going further north, i wonder how many of these are 'offical' roundthe world trips
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[19:19] <mattbrejza> 3 months now
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[19:20] <Rebounder> wow, B64.. :) wonder when habhub will implode due to all data.. ;)
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[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> just saw that on TV https://github.com/kenkawakenkenke/tempescope/wiki/Make-a-Tempescope
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> but yea, water+mains voltage=???
[19:26] <fsphil> oxygen, hydrogen and probably a bang
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> the parts list is missing
[19:27] <fsphil> mikestir: the tenma's any good?
[19:28] <mattbrejza> i have a tenma scope, and adamgreig has the same one iirc
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[19:34] <jededu> tenma aka UNI-T http://www.uni-trend.com/en/product/list_277_1.html
[19:34] <kf7fer> Lunar_Lander: No worries, it's actually only 24V DC (3A)
[19:34] <adamgreig> I have the tenma 72-8230 60MHz 500MS/s
[19:34] <kf7fer> much smaller fire
[19:34] <adamgreig> i enjoy it
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:42] <mikestir> fsphil: yeah they're ok - they do the job
[19:42] <mikestir> no flukes, but no fluke price tag either
[19:42] <fsphil> yea would love a fluke
[19:42] <fsphil> ain't happening
[19:42] <mikestir> the serial connection is opto-isolated
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[19:45] <mikestir> I made an 8 channel +/-100V analogue logger around an avr - built it to diagnose an intermittent fault on my AV amplifier, but it has been quite useful for other things
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[20:13] <dieter_> Hello, is somebody here knowing which film is best used for Helium/Hydrogen balloons with low diffusion of the gas so that it may float a long time?It should also be heat-sealable
[20:18] <Upu> generally when no one answers like this it means no one knows :)
[20:18] <dieter_> okay i see
[20:18] <Upu> but hang on
[20:19] <ulfr> Isn't mylar quite good for that sort of things?
[20:19] <Upu> aluminised PET / Nylon / PE with around 24g/sq.m density
[20:19] <myself> Whatever that is: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/B-64-envelope.jpg
[20:19] <myself> heh
[20:19] <Upu> basically no idea
[20:19] <Upu> "plastic"
[20:20] <SA6BSS> I think that was plastic you use to protect your flor when you paint
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> dieter_: what do you mean 'long' time
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> If you just want a week - almost anything
[20:20] <dieter_> maybe 2-3 weeks
[20:21] <jededu> Is brass wire any good for 1/4 wave antennas
[20:21] <dieter_> i think if b64 would be simple paint platic film, it would not have floated so long
[20:22] <SA6BSS> well ask Leo, he knows
[20:22] <jededu> Balloon antenna
[20:23] <ulfr> jededu: any wire that conducts should be okay.
[20:23] <dieter_> so i can meet him here?
[20:23] <ulfr> he's sometimes around yes.
[20:23] <dieter_> okay ill try
[20:23] <ulfr> jededu: but it'd be a shame if it's not stiff enough to carry it's own weight..
[20:23] <SA6BSS> I´m prety shure that was used in one of B63 /B64 /B66
[20:23] <jededu> so steel is as good as copper?
[20:24] <ulfr> well, copper is better, but steel is used as well.
[20:24] <ulfr> or aluminium
[20:24] <ulfr> lighter than copper.
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[20:24] <craag> ernie ball #13
[20:25] <craag> guitar wire
[20:26] <ulfr> Is that good for antenna builds?
[20:26] <craag> Yep, solders, holds shape
[20:26] <ulfr> could be used for an interesting foldable yagi...
[20:26] <ulfr> oh
[20:26] <ulfr> holds shape.
[20:27] <craag> when used for 70cm antenna lengths yes
[20:27] <craag> It's what leo uses I believe :)
[20:27] <craag> (and anthony)
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[20:29] <jededu> craag Is this the one ?
[20:29] <jededu> http://www.ernieball.co.uk/p/013-electric-acoustic-6-pack/strings_plain-strings-electric-acoustic?pp=8
[20:30] <craag> yep
[20:30] <craag> i got it off ebay
[20:30] <craag> but exact same packet
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[20:33] <jededu> Ok ordered :) Ill launch two identical payloads one with my copper version and one with the steel one test the range
[20:34] <mikestir> you could copper plate the guitar strings :)
[20:34] <craag> they're tin coated
[20:34] <mikestir> skin effect would mean that would be as good as solid copper for rf
[20:34] <jededu> Now thats an idea :)
[20:34] <mikestir> right. that's probably almost as good anyway then
[20:35] <craag> yep "tin plated high carbon steel"
[20:35] <craag> that's what makes them easy to solder :)
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[20:38] <jededu> I think SLEET used them if I remember
[20:41] <daveake> it did
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[20:52] <Rebounder> SA6BSS: govkällen
[20:53] <Rebounder> First balloon from .se, and not by a Swede.. ;)
[20:55] <SA6BSS> hehe, true!
[20:55] <SA6BSS> maby I can get the first floter out of swe
[20:56] <Rebounder> :)
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> B-64 on the way to washington
[21:03] <arko> UGGGGGGG
[21:03] <arko> I was just ther
[21:03] <arko> E
[21:03] <arko> What the heck?!
[21:03] <craag> haha
[21:03] <fsphil> oh noe!
[21:03] <craag> it's taunting you
[21:03] <craag> again
[21:04] <arko> Its allergic to me :(
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[21:06] <fsphil> it's normally me it avoids
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[21:07] <SA6BSS> looks like the prediction puts it just north of Eureka
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> over 3 months in the air
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[21:08] <Laurenceb_> 3 hours used to be a long flight :D
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[21:12] <arko> Heh
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[21:18] <Laurenceb_> is it possible to force hysplit to re run?
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> !hysplit B-64
[21:18] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141013-16_160883_B64.gif
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> !hysplit
[21:19] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: HYSPLIT available for: 03B-64
[21:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its due to run in about 40minutes I think
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> ah
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[21:38] <lz1dev> !hysplit run b-64
[21:38] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> ah run
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> !hysplit B-64
[21:40] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/141013-21_164401_B64.gif
[21:40] <Rebounder> cool
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> boo only 2 days
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> before its out of range
[21:44] <Rebounder> any new ideas for long range comms?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> HF?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> maybe
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:45] <fsphil> HF or satellite are the only two
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> or Uri Geller
[21:45] <mattbrejza> or ukhasnet
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:46] <fsphil> hehe, balloon to balloon
[21:46] <fsphil> or balloon to buoy
[21:47] <Rebounder> was just a bit inspired after playing with rpi+gpio+wspr and some filters
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> WSPR maybe
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> but its a bit borderline
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> but it may work...
[21:47] <fsphil> mmm yea
[21:47] <fsphil> just the odd report would do
[21:47] <fsphil> nice thing about hf too, it may give us a position on the ground
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> its a bit hard to work out how well it will work
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> if you looks at the log, theres always someone working it within the past few hours with <100mW
[21:50] <Laurenceb_> but what is the probability of success
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[21:52] <Rebounder> i got 2000 km with the rpi and crapy square signal + filters and 1/4 vertical (no radials..) at 20m
[21:53] <mattbrejza> would you ideally want horizontal polerisation?
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> WSPR?
[21:53] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: yepp
[21:54] <mattbrejza> its ~27MHz?
[21:54] <mattbrejza> 28?
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[21:54] <Rebounder> Laurenceb_: just running short times because i don't know exactly how good the filters are. ny neighour receiver gets too overloaded
[21:54] <Rebounder> mattbrejza: that was 14 mhz
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> i was looking at doing it with the clkout on stm32f4
[21:55] <mattbrejza> then pull the crystal?
[21:55] <mattbrejza> or will that vary too much with temperature?
[21:55] <mattbrejza> (i was thinking varactor)
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[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:56] <mattbrejza> can you get crystals that are exactly on frequency?
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[21:58] <Laurenceb_> i cant remember lol
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> oh
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> i think you can twiddle the PLL
[21:58] <mikestir> you could get a crystal made
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> i forget...
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> have notes somewhere
[21:59] <mikestir> does quartslab still exist?
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> no need - the stm32 pll is very configurable
[21:59] <mikestir> yeah but phase noise
[21:59] <mattbrejza> although only on the expensive ones
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> shrug
[21:59] <mattbrejza> i think pulling a custom cut crystal wouild work better
[21:59] <mikestir> http://www.quartslab.com/
[22:00] <mikestir> seems it does still exist
[22:00] <mattbrejza> although the persumably shitty pi pll managed
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah but then the deviation will be off
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: exactly
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> you can do better on stm32
[22:00] <adamgreig> euroquartz were good for custom crystals before
[22:00] <adamgreig> 20-off and cheap and nice
[22:00] <adamgreig> happy to deal with random shits
[22:00] <mattbrejza> i guess at HF the resolution on the pll doesnt have to be so high as uhf stuff
[22:00] <mikestir> I've bought 2 off from qsl in the past
[22:01] <mikestir> cost about £20
[22:03] <Laurenceb_> i think you can basically apply the Rpi stuff to anything with a decent pll
[22:05] <mattbrejza> silly ham rules mean we cant try this on a up-down flight
[22:05] <mattbrejza> although if youre just twiddling a gpio you could claim its unintended radiation
[22:05] <mikestir> could try it on an ism frequency if people were primed to listen out for it
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> B-64 will beat the CNES MIR balloon duration record in a couple of days
[22:24] <mattbrejza> still need to get arhab updated :/
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[22:26] <Laurenceb_> in 4 weeks aiui it will have been flying longer than anything i can find documented - other than Ghost stuff
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> JAXA have flown 122days
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> dunno about CNES superpressure stuff
[22:26] <mattbrejza> even on that big list dan showed us at ukhas12?
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> Loon are up past 130 days
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah i wasnt counting loon
[22:28] <mattbrejza> although the pastic leo is using is superior to the loon stuff?
[22:29] <mattbrejza> *plastic
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> Loon is limited by Helium diffusion
[22:31] <mattbrejza> altohugh the larger balloons have a better surface area : volume ratio
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[23:07] <SpeedEvil> What's the maximum pinhole diameter.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> I guess it must be in the nanometers
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[00:00] --- Tue Oct 14 2014