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[06:33] <Chetic> so how cloudy can it typically be for a hab not to lose radio contact?
[06:33] <Chetic> with a rtl sdr setup, with preamp
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[07:14] <Lunar_LanderU> good morning
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[07:18] <fsphil> morn mr.kev
[07:19] <fsphil> Chetic: don't worry about cloud affecting the radio signal. unless it's volcanic cloud, then worry is ok
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[07:26] <Chetic> haha roger, fsphil
[07:26] <Chetic> even on a rainy day?
[07:26] <Chetic> it's fine?
[07:27] <fsphil> seems to be
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[07:27] <fsphil> I've tracked things on rainy days very low on the horizon, so the signal would have gone through quite a lot of cloud
[07:27] <Chetic> great to hear! might launch on saturday then
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[07:27] <fsphil> the only risk is the payload getting wet
[07:27] <Chetic> naturally
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[07:40] <amell> wow. tuesday prediction is definately not hab friendly.
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[07:42] <edmoore> wednesday's predicition is full of woe
[07:42] <edmoore> thursday's prediction has far to go
[07:44] <fsphil> doesn't really work on friday
[07:45] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/cookstown/
[07:45] <fsphil> bah
[07:46] <arko> lol
[07:49] <edmoore> paisley
[07:49] <edmoore> can visit john bonsor
[07:50] <arko> is that the wacky scot rocket guy?
[07:52] <edmoore> yes
[07:52] <edmoore> tim the enchanter
[07:52] <arko> heh
[07:52] <arko> yes!
[07:52] <arko> now i remember
[07:53] <fsphil> nasty big pointy teeth!
[07:54] <amell> lol
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[08:09] <gonzo_> shut up, and go and change your armor....
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[09:17] Nick change: DrLuke__ -> DrLuke
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[09:53] <navrac_work> are you there UpuWork ?
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[10:19] <UpuWork> hey navrac_work here
[10:21] <navrac_work> hello
[10:21] <navrac_work> just about to order some bits off your web site
[10:21] Action: amell applauds
[10:21] <navrac_work> what are the ordering options i need to ask about for the ntx2b -fa?
[10:22] <UpuWork> pm
[10:22] <Haxxa> what batteries work at -40c
[10:23] <gonzo_> energiser lithiums?
[10:23] <Haxxa> do they really?
[10:25] <craag> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[10:25] <craag> for certain definitions of 'work'
[10:25] <craag> but a heck of a lot better than most other chemistries
[10:26] <Haxxa> well its been sent to antartica - sensor...
[10:26] <craag> Ok - so what's your current draw?
[10:26] <craag> match that up with the graph in the datasheet
[10:26] <craag> it'll tell you the effective capacity
[10:28] <Haxxa> 16.43 ma max
[10:30] <craag> so what does the graph tell you about capacity degradation at -40 at that discharge rate?
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[10:31] <amell> negligible impact. interesting.
[10:31] <amell> sorry, i shouldnt have said anything should i? :)
[10:32] <Haxxa> It willlast 6/9 as long as usual?
[10:32] <amell> where did you get that from?
[10:32] <amell> look at the third graph
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[10:33] <Haxxa> ah interestng barley any impact
[10:35] <Haxxa> I was directed here by another user who said antartica has similar conditions to high alt. - so do you stick electronics on balloons or something is this hobby (weather ballooning?) soory for ignorance
[10:35] <amell> who sent you here?
[10:36] <Haxxa> theBear
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[10:42] <gonzo_> with the addition of very low air pressures (depending on the altitude)
[10:42] <craag> Haxxa: Thats probably quite true. Although the general consensus is that unless it's battery capacity or rf frequency stability you're worried about - there's not much to worry about.
[10:42] <craag> Yeah some of antartica is really quite high
[10:42] <edmoore> antarctica has different conditions to hab
[10:42] <gonzo_> high lat, rather than alt ?
[10:42] <edmoore> temperatures are sometimes comparable but temperature != heat transfer
[10:43] <gonzo_> and less bears at 30km up
[10:43] <edmoore> and the much higher density of air at groud level in antarctica could mean that keeping it warm is harder
[10:43] <edmoore> fewer bears
[10:43] <edmoore> less bars
[10:43] <Haxxa> battery capactity I have a watchdog timer which turns microcontroller to sleep but this is 24/7 application and expeitioners cannot be expect to replace batteries daily
[10:44] <edmoore> what's the application? sorry I'm late to the conversation
[10:44] <amell> summer or winter?
[10:45] <gonzo_> I wonder if there is a sweet spot at alt, where the temps are similar and the air pressure is still reasonable as an arctic analogue
[10:45] <Haxxa> summer - at casey in antartica
[10:46] <craag> what is the device doing?
[10:46] <amell> could solar cell it with low temp lipo?
[10:46] <Haxxa> edmoore weather sensor needs to last 2 to 3 monthes - it records temp, alt. etc. every 1 hour then sleeps
[10:47] <amell> err. im pretty sure there are no bears in the antartic?
[10:47] <gonzo_> wonder if the lower ozone lavels at antarctic could also be simulated by altitude?
[10:47] <edmoore> Haxxa, ok interesting
[10:47] <Haxxa> amell correct
[10:47] <amell> leopard seals are the main eater of humans in antartica.
[10:47] <edmoore> yes i suspect the lithium primary cells are a good bet
[10:47] <Haxxa> any suggestions
[10:47] <Haxxa> yer I am trying to calculate life
[10:48] <Haxxa> battery life
[10:48] <gonzo_> hehe, I realsied that. So just the toppling collonies of penguins
[10:49] <gonzo_> primary batts not rechargeable. Though they could be for backup, and using the solar PV when avail (witch will be often in arctic summer?)
[10:49] <edmoore> Haxxa, is it just operating over summer?
[10:49] <craag> Haxxa: Well the lithium energisers are perhaps the best safe bet. Could investigate a diode-or with solar power due to the long days, but solar does rely on it being the right way up, and lack of snow/obstruction.
[10:50] <Haxxa> nope as the device is made already and has a slot for three aa batteries or a single d battery
[10:50] <gonzo_> the drop acropss a diode would probably be toio much
[10:50] <edmoore> ok
[10:50] <edmoore> i'd do 3x AA lithium energizer ultimate
[10:50] <edmoore> they're internally called L91 cells
[10:50] <amell> so just bung 3 of them in.
[10:51] <edmoore> that has discharge curves across current draws and temperatures
[10:51] <edmoore> have a read
[10:51] Action: amell wishes edmoore would read the previous conversation.
[10:51] <amell> weve covered all this
[10:51] <gonzo_> how would thiose cope with PV directly across?
[10:51] <Haxxa> it pulls 100ua in sleep from memory so it should last awhile
[10:52] <edmoore> so you have!
[10:52] <craag> gonzo_: He said he can't do PV
[10:52] <gonzo_> ok, missed that
[10:52] <craag> but academically - I think someone has tried trickle-charging them - but with little success.
[10:53] <edmoore> i think you've your answer then
[10:53] <edmoore> tey're the best AA cells your dollars can buy
[10:53] <Haxxa> According to datasheet I think if I pulled 100-200ua it should last a bloody long time
[10:54] <Haxxa> enough to cover entire summer
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[10:56] <craag> :)
[10:57] <craag> Do these sensors have any wireless capability out of interest?
[10:58] <gonzo_> craag, was thinking of just providing a pv source to drive electronics, without a diode. rather than charging. Also I'm assuming that PV junctions will be reverse biased by the batts when in dark, and hopefully have little leakage.
[10:58] <edmoore> many sensors have wireless capability
[10:58] <gonzo_> Though I'm sure leo has all those answers
[10:58] <edmoore> bridge sensors in particular are very good at detecting rf
[10:58] <Haxxa> they don't because the observers are doing some sensitive tests with wireless protocol and I can't interfere
[10:58] <Haxxa> it has eeprom and memory card
[10:58] <Haxxa> no very exciting is it...
[10:59] <Haxxa> *not very excitiny
[10:59] <craag> heh edmoore, not what I meant, but nice idea
[10:59] <gonzo_> all good engineering is interesting, to real engineers
[10:59] <craag> Haxxa: Ah fair enough, thanks.
[11:01] <edmoore> the circuit i'm designing atm involves removing any common-mode rf signals from any small differential signals from sensors
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[11:03] <craag> edmoore: I guess that uses a lot of dynamic range and some careful bias calibration?
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[11:05] <edmoore> it's really just RC
[11:05] <edmoore> but a special kind of balanced capacitor that has extremely low inductance
[11:05] <edmoore> and a shared gnd connection
[11:05] <craag> oh ok
[11:05] <edmoore> and it forms something of a common-mode choke because of the way it's constructed
[11:05] <craag> nice
[11:06] <craag> I really wish I had work that would allow me to spend more time on analog electronics
[11:06] <amell> on the off chance anyone has seen this before - looking for arduino code to do multi level menus with one button (short press, long press etc)
[11:09] <edmoore> craag, it's only about 10% for me
[11:09] <edmoore> but it's the 10% I can usually talk about
[11:09] <edmoore> as it's not directly related to the main focus of work
[11:10] <craag> I think if you spent too much time on it you'd have to grow a beard
[11:11] <edmoore> correct
[11:12] <gonzo_> are sandels reserved for senior positions?
[11:14] <edmoore> i'm building up to a pipe
[11:26] <gonzo_> that comes with latters after the name. (All I have are the letters: 'Wanted in connection with....')
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[11:38] <Haxxa> do caps once charged use sgnificant current draw
[11:40] <craag> Large electrolytics can. It's often in the datasheet as a function of CV
[11:41] <Haxxa> but on a small sensor once charged they have minimal impact on battery
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[11:45] <craag> All capacitors have a leakage current. For certain large electrolytics this can be significant if you're in the uA range. *Always* check the datasheet :)
[11:46] <DutchMillbt> Maxell..QRV ;-)
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[11:48] <DutchMillbt> moghuu Wouter
[11:49] <PA3WEG> Hi Klaas
[11:50] <DutchMillbt> Hi so the rocket boys from Delft going for a altitude record?
[11:50] <PA3WEG> for those interested: http://dare.tudelft.nl/stratos-ii/stratos-ii-launch-livestream/
[11:50] <DutchMillbt> Ha thankz
[11:50] <PA3WEG> Stratos-II amateur rocket record attempt
[11:50] <PA3WEG> flying to 50km
[11:50] <Maxell> mogguh DutchMillbt
[11:51] <Maxell> discuss anything to do with high altitude projects
[11:51] <Maxell> PA3WEG: ^
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[11:51] <Maxell> ah http://dare.tudelft.nl/stratos-ii/stratos-ii-launch-livestream/
[11:51] <PA3WEG> yes Maxell, and this is high altitude
[11:52] <Maxell> :P
[11:52] Action: Maxell loert
[11:52] <PA3WEG> not a balloon
[11:52] <DutchMillbt> Maxell i'm testing a my hab at the moment @ 434.650 300bd 470 7n1 ...
[11:52] <PA3WEG> I have helped with the S-band video gear
[11:52] <PA3WEG> same RX as the ballonvossenjacht
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[11:55] <PA3WEG> they have run into some troubles, but thats not unusual with these projects. new launch scheduled at 14:00 UTC
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[11:56] <DutchMillbt> Maxell can you rx my signal @434.648Mhz ?
[11:56] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: lemme qsy
[11:57] <mclane_> livestream does not work in germany
[11:57] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: not at qth, lets try revspace remote
[11:57] <mclane_> (youtube does not allow streams coming from different countries apparently)
[11:57] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: nope, no trace of it at both rx'es
[11:58] <DutchMillbt> wait a sec ...put it in max power
[11:58] <Maxell> PA3WEG: HABish :)
[11:59] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: hmm lets ee
[12:00] <PA3WEG> mclane_: thats strange
[12:00] <PA3WEG> it should!
[12:00] <mclane_> "live streaming not possible in germany due to rights problems"
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[12:02] <DutchMillbt> Maxell transmitter @max power ... transmitting 10 lines 300bd rtty and a cw ident
[12:02] <PA3WEG> OK, they may have issues then with licenced content
[12:02] <Maxell> mclane_: sure? https://www.youtu.be/y7zphP7OcjE
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[12:03] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: nope 10 mW?
[12:03] <Maxell> or 35 mW now?
[12:03] <Maxell> or max power
[12:03] <PA3WEG> there is a promotional movie on the stream with music. If contentID has caught that and refuses to blay ball, your stream gets restricted. Germany does not have the same copyright laws, so they are excluded from the stream. I had the same issue on my streams, even if you own all the copyrights.....
[12:04] <DutchMillbt> nope 100 mW now
[12:04] <PA3WEG> but I can not tell if thats the case....
[12:06] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: nope
[12:06] <Maxell> still nothing
[12:06] <mclane_> seems to be that - the youtou.be link does not work (404 not found)
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[12:06] <Maxell> PA3WEG: ahh nasty ground loop in the audio
[12:06] <Maxell> youtube
[12:06] <Maxell> derp
[12:07] <Maxell> http://www.youtu.be/y7zphP7OcjE
[12:07] <Maxell> http://youtu.be/y7zphP7OcjE
[12:07] <Maxell> grmbl
[12:07] <DutchMillbt> Maxell oke thankz ... change the antenna... back in a few mins
[12:08] <vk3tbc> Howdy, I am a newbie, can someone tell me how to get the launch doco approved?
[12:08] <Maxell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7zphP7OcjE o_0
[12:08] <Maxell> vk3tbc: ask in #habhub
[12:08] <Maxell> they can approve your launch
[12:08] <vk3tbc> Ok, thanks
[12:10] <vk3tbc> Hmmm, I must be missing something on HABHUB site, is there an email address?
[12:11] <fsphil> it's an IRC channel, in here type: /join #habhub
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[12:12] <fsphil> or that
[12:12] <edmoore> lol
[12:12] <edmoore> poor bugger
[12:14] <jonsowman> lol
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[12:16] <DutchMillbt> Maxell i swapped the antenna do you rx the signal now ?
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[12:18] <Maxell> lets see
[12:19] <Maxell> just one carrier
[12:19] <Maxell> @ remote rx
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[12:21] <DutchMillbt> i change the frequency to 434.600 is that a free frequency?
[12:21] <Maxell> unmodulated carrier @ .650 http://i.sigio.nl/b8b1792bc924f7a1a80777b73253623d.png
[12:21] <Maxell> lets see
[12:22] <Maxell> no qrm yet no signak
[12:22] <DutchMillbt> ...compiling ... back in 20 sec
[12:23] <DutchMillbt> ..back @434.597
[12:23] <PA3WEG> gimme a sec here as well
[12:23] <Maxell> qsy to 434.597 MHz USB
[12:24] <PA3WEG> S7
[12:24] <PA3WEG> on off on
[12:24] <PA3WEG> ON
[12:24] <PA3WEG> OFF
[12:24] <PA3WEG> :P
[12:25] <Maxell> lol did not knew that worked
[12:26] <PA3WEG> worked fine
[12:26] <PA3WEG> DutchMillbt: Jeroen was outputting a tone there
[12:26] <PA3WEG> are you TXing?
[12:26] <DutchMillbt> yep
[12:27] <Maxell> hmm might be feinth
[12:27] <DutchMillbt> a 50bd rtty hab string and cw
[12:27] <PA3WEG> nothing here on the sucky antenna
[12:27] <Maxell> 50bd rtty hab string ah
[12:27] <PA3WEG> work array is tracking sats
[12:27] <Maxell> pd3adn also listing in from loosduinen
[12:27] <PA3WEG> no doubt I can pick it up there
[12:27] <Maxell> hehe
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[12:30] <Maxell> nope loosduinen also negative
[12:30] <DutchMillbt> .. i'm loosing the power in coax ;-) oke thankz for trying Maxell en PA3WEG
[12:32] <Haxxa> How do you guys log data - sdcards seem to have terrible operating temps?
[12:32] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: toppie
[12:32] <Haxxa> do you use eeprom
[12:33] <edmoore> sdcards
[12:33] <edmoore> never had a problem
[12:33] <edmoore> ... that was to do with temperature
[12:33] <edmoore> eeprom is something on which I'm less keen
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[12:33] <edmoore> it's fine, but it's not got a great life expectance in write cycles
[12:34] <edmoore> might not be a big deal for something doing a few bytes an hour like your weather station
[12:34] <edmoore> but annoying for higher data rates
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[12:35] <edmoore> there is probably a middle-ground to be had if you implement your own wear levelling on eeprom
[12:35] <PA3WEG> DutchMillbt: you are welcome, no problem
[12:35] <edmoore> sdcards have this aspect built into their controllers so you needn;t worry about it
[12:37] <Haxxa> cool - my other concern is its low power application and needs to last the sdcard reader has a voltage reg. on it wouldn't that kill battery
[12:37] <edmoore> the sd card probably only needs to be on for a few ms
[12:37] <edmoore> can;t imagine it's a huge deal
[12:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MTG002 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=MTG002
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[12:37] <Haxxa> yer but the sdcard is connected to 5v does that not mean it is constantly drawing power?
[12:38] <edmoore> if you do it like that, yes
[12:38] <edmoore> but i wouldn;t do it like that
[12:38] <edmoore> i'd have the microcontroller turn it on and off via a transistor
[12:39] <Haxxa> also have a dht22 connected to 5v rail would that draw power constantly
[12:39] <edmoore> i don;t know what a dht22 is
[12:39] <edmoore> one sec
[12:39] <Haxxa> heat sensor
[12:39] <edmoore> ok
[12:40] <edmoore> well again, it's probably a better design idea to be able to turn all this stuff on and off with the micro
[12:41] <edmoore> having stuff on permanently is basically at odds with low power design, better to have the microcontroller turn all subsystems on and off and then concentrate on getting the microcontroller into a very low-power sleep mode with everything else off
[12:42] <Haxxa> right fair call I could save to internal eeprom and copy to sd card at end of day would that save power
[12:42] <edmoore> i doubt it
[12:43] <edmoore> no different to just writing to the sd card directly
[12:43] <edmoore> it's worth saving up data to write to sd cards though
[12:43] <edmoore> say 512B at a time
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: SD cards need to be on for lots more than milliseconds, or they can get very upset
[12:43] <edmoore> go and teach a different grandma to suck eggs SpeedEvil
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> you need to power them until they're happy and have done all their wear leveling stuff
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> interrupting power can make them unhappy, and lose data
[12:44] <edmoore> they tell you this when you talk to them
[12:44] <edmoore> you can;t actually write to them until they're happy
[12:44] <edmoore> when to exit their wait states
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[12:45] <edmoore> so that takes care of itself
[12:45] <edmoore> Haxxa, I'm not quite sure when in the design stage you are with this
[12:45] <edmoore> if you can design the circuit still, it's easy
[12:45] <edmoore> if you already have existing hardware you need to work with, then that's a different problem
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Fair enough - I'm just reporting memories of massive corruption issues on a device when it promptly poweredd down after a write
[12:46] <Haxxa> I have a pcb printed
[12:46] <Haxxa> but I have a perfboard if I need to add stuff
[12:46] <Haxxa> I'll tap of mc pins
[12:47] <edmoore> sure
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[12:47] <edmoore> so yes, i'd have fets to turn on the power to all your peripherals
[12:47] <edmoore> and just turn them on to take a measurement or to write to them
[12:47] <edmoore> the best power saving advice i'd give is to use SD only, assuming the contents of ram are preserved in the micro during sleep
[12:48] <edmoore> then just have a ram buffer on the micro, say 512B as sd card sectors are usually that size
[12:48] <edmoore> and once it's full, squirt it all onto the sd card
[12:48] <Haxxa> edmoore could you intrept this datasheet - does the pullup resistor stop sensor drawing current - http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/Digital%20humidity%20and%20temperature%20sensor%20AM2302.pdf
[12:48] <edmoore> <pedantry> waiting for the sd card to report it's happy </pedantry>
[12:48] <Haxxa> edmoore good question about ram buffer
[12:49] <edmoore> Haxxa, the pullup resistor will be to stop the MCU and the sensor getting confused by electrical noise
[12:49] <Haxxa> so current is still be drawn?
[12:49] <Haxxa> been
[12:49] <edmoore> however i would have both the pullup vdd and the power vdd on the same brance that is controlled by the fet
[12:50] <edmoore> that 1k will draw barely any current
[12:50] <edmoore> but you don't want a data signal to see a high voltage when the power-in VDD sees 0V
[12:50] <edmoore> as that might go the wrong way across an internal diode
[12:50] <edmoore> which would be really bad
[12:50] <Haxxa> nah i mean the sensor will it draw current when not been polled
[12:51] <edmoore> oh
[12:51] <edmoore> probably
[12:51] <edmoore> i'll read now
[12:51] <edmoore> section 7
[12:51] <edmoore> 50uA standby
[12:51] <edmoore> 1ish mA Measuring
[12:51] <edmoore> so not much
[12:52] <edmoore> certainly small-bananas compared to the sd card which can be sorta 30mA even when idle
[12:52] <Haxxa> edmoore it says typical : null
[12:53] <Haxxa> confused me
[12:53] <edmoore> that's probably engrish
[12:53] <edmoore> it's gotta be between min and max right
[12:53] <edmoore> 40 and 50 uA
[12:53] Action: Laurenceb is too lazy to scroll
[12:53] <Laurenceb> who is building what?
[12:54] <edmoore> how much data in total are you collecting over the course of a summer's deployment of a sensor station?
[12:54] <edmoore> Haxxa is doing environmental monitoring in antarctica
[12:54] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:54] <Laurenceb> this sounds like my day job
[12:54] <Laurenceb> how often are the samples?
[12:55] <Haxxa> edmoore well they are pushing me to get it sent by monday thats why I have all these questions anyway
[12:55] <Laurenceb> power could be an issue
[12:55] <edmoore> everyone loves a deadline
[12:55] <Laurenceb> as its going to get cold
[12:55] <edmoore> Laurenceb, read the scrollback
[12:55] <Laurenceb> can you afford an RTG ?
[12:55] <Laurenceb> lol ok
[12:55] <Haxxa> it will sample every 15 minutes - or whatever battery life allows for over 3 months trying to caculate it all
[12:55] <edmoore> don;t ask any more redundant questions until you have
[12:55] <Laurenceb> ok id fire up an SD card every 15minutes then :P
[12:56] <Laurenceb> simple
[12:56] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later!
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[12:56] <Haxxa> mircocontroller sleep use 360ua + dht22 uses 50 ua in standby
[12:57] <Laurenceb> no prob at all then
[12:57] <Laurenceb> but can you find low temp batteries?
[12:57] <Haxxa> read scrollback
[12:57] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:58] <Haxxa> battery is sorted
[12:58] <Laurenceb> L91?
[12:58] <edmoore> yes
[12:58] <Laurenceb> seems sensible :D
[12:59] <edmoore> got the seal of approval from Laurence Haxxa
[12:59] <edmoore> all down-hill from here
[12:59] <Laurenceb> trolol
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[13:00] <Haxxa> lol
[13:00] <Haxxa> edmoore I also have a photocell in this config - https://learn.adafruit.com/system/assets/assets/000/000/458/thumb160/light_cdsanasch.gif?1396763210
[13:00] <edmoore> sure
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.3853.pdf hmm - there isa ctually a proper way to tell the SD card you're removing power.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> err
[13:01] <edmoore> that's gonna be a few hundred uA probably
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/simplified_specs/part1_410.pdf
[13:01] <Laurenceb> nice Kepler
[13:01] <Haxxa> isn't a pull down resistor and wasting significant current current
[13:01] <Laurenceb> eeek 202 pages
[13:01] <edmoore> it's not 'pull down' in this context
[13:02] <edmoore> and you can calculate it exactly
[13:02] Action: Laurenceb just grabs FatFS
[13:02] <edmoore> i don't like adjectives like 'significant'
[13:02] <edmoore> they're useless really
[13:02] <edmoore> engineering is numbers or gfo
[13:02] <edmoore> so with that in mind
[13:02] <Haxxa> fair calll
[13:02] <edmoore> I = V/R, V = 5, R = >10k
[13:02] <edmoore> because R = LDR + 10K
[13:02] <edmoore> i don;t know what the ldr is
[13:03] <edmoore> but if it's 0 ohms (obviously it won't be) then the worst case consumption is 5/10k = 500uA
[13:03] <edmoore> if the ldr is also about 10k, then that's more like 250uA typical
[13:03] <Haxxa> its about 600k most of the time
[13:04] <edmoore> gosh that's a lot
[13:04] <Haxxa> yer thats at night
[13:04] <Haxxa> at day about 10k
[13:04] <edmoore> if you've calculated it all, forgive me, but i'd have thought without knowing the specifics that you'd want something nearer the 'pulldown' value, so you get a bigger voltage swing to the adc
[13:05] <edmoore> oh ok
[13:05] <edmoore> fine
[13:05] <edmoore> i guess daytime is when you care about
[13:05] <edmoore> ok
[13:05] <edmoore> so it's gonna be about 250uA during the day and a lot lot less at night
[13:05] <Haxxa> so idealy use a mosfet
[13:05] <edmoore> about 10uA at night
[13:06] <edmoore> use a mosfet if the 250uA is gonna kill you
[13:06] <Haxxa> ok turn on when need
[13:06] <edmoore> probably worth it for something that needs to run for months
[13:06] <edmoore> i'd have a spreadsheet at the ready with all the current consumptions of different subsystems
[13:06] <edmoore> so you can quickly calculate battery life
[13:06] <edmoore> will be super helpful when trying to calculate how often to sample etc
[13:06] <Haxxa> yer good idea
[13:07] <Haxxa> and then have calculation for sample current and time
[13:07] <Haxxa> speedevil had concern of sdcard curruption do you share that concern?
[13:08] <Haxxa> or in your expeience you haven't experience any of that...
[13:08] <edmoore> it should be fine if you use the sd card properly
[13:08] <edmoore> the spi interface for sd cards is quite well established and freely available
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> A major problem with 'SD cards' is that every single one can have different firmware, and behave differently to the last one you bought
[13:09] <edmoore> there is a bit of talking to the sd card required before each write
[13:09] <Haxxa> I have a decent one (industrial)
[13:09] <Haxxa> it works at lower temps
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> the above SD standard thing linked refers to corruption on power-off.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> (though is not explicit as to when it may occur)
[13:10] <edmoore> if there's an established way to tell it to prepare to be turned off, do that
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> the above standard has one
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[13:11] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> I can't find any actual nice data on this, google searches are all poisoned by 'I've lost data' from consumers
[13:11] <edmoore> you might find this document a useful introduction: http://elm-chan.org/docs/mmc/mmc_e.html
[13:12] <edmoore> Haxxa, you could use SPI flash or something else similar if you wanted
[13:12] <edmoore> let's actually work out what kind of data size you're talking about
[13:13] <Haxxa> edmoore I have sd on hand which is big factor
[13:13] <edmoore> each measurement, what are you measuring and how many bits is each measurement?
[13:13] <edmoore> ok fine then
[13:13] <edmoore> i'd stick with sd
[13:13] <edmoore> just treat it nice
[13:13] <Haxxa> I know its not ideal but time :/
[13:14] <edmoore> yep
[13:14] <edmoore> stick with sd then
[13:14] <Haxxa> so say I have a mosfet which is looking likley and I am using arduino library is thier a certain call outside that standard close file that needs to b made by the api
[13:14] <Haxxa> *there
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[13:15] <Haxxa> sorry that was really bad english
[13:15] <edmoore> for example w.r.t that elm-chan document, you see there is CMD0 - got to idle
[13:15] <Tramvai> Hey guys. How do you release the balloon from the parachute after the burst?
[13:16] <LeoBodnar> Mode 0 (CPHA=0, CPOL=0) is this arduino talk?
[13:16] <edmoore> so for example before powering it down, i'd tell it to go to idle, check the response, leave it a couple of secs, then power down
[13:16] <edmoore> Tramvai, some people just leave it
[13:16] <edmoore> if you want to get rid of it you can use a cutdown
[13:17] <Haxxa> hmmm ok
[13:17] <edmoore> cutdowns fall into broadly two types - explosive and hot-wire
[13:17] <Tramvai> Doesn't it affect the parachute?
[13:17] <edmoore> explosive is a little link that blows up, spearating attachement
[13:17] <Tramvai> Fall on it for example/ drag it off course?
[13:17] <edmoore> hot-wire is where you melt through the nylon schord with a hot wire
[13:17] <edmoore> Tramvai, usually it has a lower ballistic coefficifient that the parachute
[13:17] <edmoore> so it flies behind
[13:17] <edmoore> not always though
[13:18] <Haxxa> I don't want to power the card off and on. You then need to reinitialize the card and SD.h wrapper for SdFat has a bug that prevents multiple calls to begin().
[13:18] <Haxxa> :/
[13:18] <edmoore> 'off course' is a subjective term for a freely falling payload
[13:18] <Haxxa> might have to write it myself
[13:18] <edmoore> yes probably
[13:18] <edmoore> because if you just leave it on the current will probably wipe you out
[13:18] <edmoore> you don't have to use a filesystem
[13:18] <Tramvai> So, should we just leave it?
[13:18] <edmoore> you can just treat it as addressable memory
[13:19] <edmoore> and remember where you got to last time in the ram of the micro
[13:19] <edmoore> so you know where to write-from this time
[13:19] <edmoore> Tramvai, it's probably not a big problem if you do leave it
[13:19] <edmoore> unless you know you want to get rid of it, which is quite legitimate
[13:19] <Tramvai> Alright
[13:19] <edmoore> i've had reason to actively get rid of the balloon after burst on a number of occassions
[13:19] <edmoore> on those occassions i've used an explosive cutdown
[13:21] <Tramvai> Hmm alright, so we could just leave it?
[13:22] <edmoore> i think I've answered that
[13:24] <Tramvai> Haha, alright, thanks
[13:24] <Tramvai> What distance should the parachute be from the balloon?
[13:24] <Tramvai> 2m? 4m?
[13:25] <edmoore> up to you really. a common rule of thumb is to have the parachute 2/3rds of the way up the total length from payload to balloon
[13:25] <Haxxa> Modern SD cards sleep at 100 - 200 micro-amps. Many SD card take 500 ms to initialize and draw a lot of current during initialization. A I guess a card may draw 50 - 100 ma during this time.
[13:25] <Haxxa> My guess is that minutes of power off would be required before there was any advantage.
[13:25] <edmoore> the exact length of that is kinda up to you, longer usually means less swinging
[13:25] <edmoore> so 10m maybe
[13:25] <edmoore> Haxxa indeed
[13:25] <edmoore> worth measuring it all on your set up
[13:26] <edmoore> and playing with the software instructions you give it
[13:26] <Haxxa> real world test right pull voltage meter out and run some real code to see what I get
[13:27] <edmoore> can't be beaten
[13:28] <Haxxa> You amy have guess I have a fairly poor knowledge in electronics can i just shove my cheap mutlimeter between the sdcard board vcc and vc of mc to get current draw?
[13:28] <Haxxa> *guessed
[13:29] <edmoore> make sure it's set in current mode
[13:29] <edmoore> if it has an everage mode much the better
[13:30] <edmoore> also not that when measuring current your multimeter will have something called a 'burden voltage' which is a voltage drop across it
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[13:30] <Haxxa> I'll buy a nice multimeter eventually working my way there
[13:30] <edmoore> so your power supply might be producing 5V but if you do PSU---multimeter----circuitboard then you might only have say 4.7V a the circuitboard
[13:30] <edmoore> because of the voltage drop across the multimeter
[13:31] <Haxxa> ok
[13:31] <edmoore> so if you have a second multimeter you can adjust the power supply to make sure it's 5V at the circuit board
[13:31] <edmoore> most people have two multimeters for this reason
[13:31] <edmoore> well, all sorts of good reasons, this is one
[13:31] <edmoore> the fluke 87V is very nice as a multimeter
[13:31] <edmoore> has min/max/average which is v useful for this
[13:31] <edmoore> as with circuits if you're say on for one second every 20s, it's hard to work out an average by looking constantly
[13:32] <edmoore> but with average mode in the meter you just turn it on and leave it for ten minutes
[13:33] <edmoore> if you're only on for a period of milliseconds every now and then, you can use a digital oscilloscope instead, but that's hopefully not necessary for what you want to do
[13:34] <Haxxa> yer... I'm not at that level of investment yet in electronics
[13:36] <edmoore> well you are
[13:36] <edmoore> by virtue of doing sensor networks in the antarctic
[13:36] <edmoore> what i mean is, you can justify it
[13:36] <edmoore> even if you don't want to part with the cash yet :)
[13:37] <myself> yeaaah, it might be time to invest in some big-kid tools.
[13:37] <myself> or convince someone else to
[13:37] <edmoore> always good ^
[13:45] <edmoore> Haxxa, also ebay is good for second hand test equipment
[13:45] <edmoore> i got my fluke 87 on ebay
[13:46] <Haxxa> I have two/three of the l91 powering mc - even if I left sdcard on it only pulls 200ua in sleep - should I reallybother with fet
[13:46] <edmoore> and where you have say $300 to spend on a bit of electrical lab equipment, like a power supply, almost always to get the HP one from the 1980s that is $300 on ebay than the brand new chinese brand one for the same price
[13:46] <Haxxa> local uni chucks out scopes all the time
[13:47] <edmoore> Haxxa, i don;t know, all i can say is ensure you test it operationally before deciding
[13:47] <edmoore> if you don't have the sd card integrate din currently (excuse pun) then don't assume anything until you've got a representative test set-up
[13:47] <edmoore> Haxxa, perfect
[13:47] <edmoore> those old analog scopes are great
[13:47] <Haxxa> cool well thank you for all your help mate - do you want anything I mean you've offered an exceptional wealth of knowledge
[13:47] <Haxxa> - they remaindme of soviet subs from movies
[13:48] <edmoore> my preferred scope is a tektronix 465 - 1960s but just a great design
[13:48] <edmoore> i want you to have good luck
[13:48] <myself> the usual payback request is to pay it forward -- document your work so that others may learn from you as well
[13:48] <edmoore> sounds like an interesting project
[13:49] <edmoore> yes that's great advice too
[13:49] <Haxxa> I will credit you on blog post thank you very much for your insight - I have to go now its fairly late where I am
[13:49] <edmoore> if you can (obviously you can't always especially if it's paid work for a customer) then a blog post or forum post or something with an overview and some experiences is really helpful to others
[13:49] <edmoore> yeah! bed time
[13:50] <edmoore> you're in aus right?
[13:50] <Haxxa> yep
[13:50] <edmoore> assume so as 1) casey is aus station and 2) you've said 'bloody' a few times
[13:50] Action: SpeedEvil loves his HP6632B
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Only 100 quid.
[13:50] <edmoore> me too
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> I still have to fix the cracked front panel
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> but meh
[13:50] <edmoore> they're the bomb
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Also work out the serial connection!
[13:51] <edmoore> Haxxa, briefly, the hp6632b is an amazing power supply
[13:51] <edmoore> quite big
[13:51] <edmoore> but like $2000 new but they go for $150 on ebay
[13:51] <edmoore> they have v accurate current and voltage measurements
[13:51] <edmoore> so you can read the current off them
[13:51] <edmoore> but they also have aserial port on the back
[13:51] <edmoore> so you can ask for voltage and current over serial
[13:52] <edmoore> so you could write a little computer script to ask for current say 10x a second
[13:52] <edmoore> and then get your average consumption that way
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> the prices seem to have gone up recently
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> at least in the UK
[13:52] <Haxxa> yer uni sells those off for $450 I think - it seems there are popular standards like fluke, altronics, hp in certain areas - I guess they are realiable
[13:52] <edmoore> not gonna fix you up in time for monday but it's a thought for the future
[13:53] <Haxxa> bye thanks guys
[13:53] <edmoore> nn
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[14:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=SP
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[14:33] <costyn> howdy ; anyone good with SNMP here?
[14:36] <edmoore> sorry, not my problem
[14:36] <costyn> hehe
[14:36] <costyn> anyways, collegue had a suggestion that worked
[14:38] <lz1dev> did you try turning it off and on again?
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[14:43] <Laurenceb> fsphil: ping
[14:43] <Laurenceb> i need help edit video on linux
[14:43] <Laurenceb> *editing
[14:43] <Laurenceb> or anyone else for that matter
[14:43] <lz1dev> openshot
[14:43] <Laurenceb> so i want to cut a video
[14:43] <Laurenceb> ffmpeg -ss 00:00:04.5 -t 00:00:12.5 -acodec copy -vcodec copy -i GOPR0009.MP4 output.mpg
[14:44] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[14:44] <lz1dev> or ffmpeg
[14:44] <Laurenceb> yeah lol
[14:44] <Laurenceb> that seems to run ok ^
[14:44] <Laurenceb> but output.mpg "contains no valid frames"
[14:44] <lz1dev> yeh
[14:44] <Laurenceb> its a long file tho
[14:44] <lz1dev> you cant have that codec in that container
[14:44] <Laurenceb> ah
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[14:45] <Laurenceb> works thanks
[14:45] <Laurenceb> is there a way to rotate video?
[14:45] <lz1dev> not sure
[14:45] <lz1dev> google
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> I know how to do it with mplayer
[14:46] <lz1dev> there might be a filter for it
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> mencoder
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> I suspect you can do it with ffmpeg
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> rotating I suspect wil lose quality
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> So do it last of course
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[14:54] <Laurenceb> ill leave it as it is
[14:55] <LeoBodnar> VVS
[14:57] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:57] <edmoore> jack loussier - playing fast and loussier with good taste
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[15:00] <fsphil> Laurenceb: I've used openshot too, it's the least evil video editor for linux
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[15:03] <jonsowman> ce97e849e1e08d8c9f380ea2ff525b06
[15:03] <jonsowman> uh
[15:03] <jonsowman> yes
[15:03] <Maxell> rocket filling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7zphP7OcjE
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[15:08] <edmoore> Maxell, background on this?
[15:08] <edmoore> i'm out of the loop sorry
[15:11] <Maxell> edmoore: hehe
[15:11] <edmoore> student rocket project?
[15:12] <Maxell> http://dare.tudelft.nl/stratos-ii/ looks like the site is not respondng
[15:12] <Maxell> yeah TU Delft diy rocket
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[15:14] <edmoore> nice
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[15:49] <Ian_> Maxell: Delft Stratos launch time is UK or UK +1 hour? (16:49 now).Good luck.
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[15:57] <Maxell> Ian_: all UTC
[15:57] <chrisstubbs> What's that really obviously named online gerber viewer called?
[15:57] <Maxell> Launch in 17 mins
[15:58] <Maxell> chrisstubbs: openstreetsmaps?
[16:00] <edmoore> t-15 minutes
[16:00] <fsphil> if it isn't onlinegerberviewer.com it's not that obvious
[16:01] <fsphil> though with all the crappy new TLDs it could be onlinegerber.viewer
[16:01] <edmoore> gerblook.org
[16:01] <edmoore> invoice in the post
[16:01] <fsphil> gerbergander.com
[16:02] <chrisstubbs> 10 points to gryffindor
[16:02] <edmoore> iheaderyourviewedgerbers.com
[16:02] <edmoore> gerberyermer
[16:03] <Ian_> Many thanks Maxell, all times zulu :)
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[16:07] <edmoore> A prayer's as good as bayonet on a day like this.
[16:10] <qyx_> fsphil: gerbview.org or something like that
[16:11] <qyx_> fsphil: http://gerblook.org/
[16:11] <qyx_> nick fail, chrisstubbs ^
[16:12] <qyx_> ok, read fail too
[16:13] <Ian_> Launch is CEST (Central Europe Standard Time) UTC + 2 timezone B
[16:13] <edmoore> launch is in 3 minutes
[16:13] <edmoore> how about that
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[16:20] <edmoore> sounds like they're having lots of fun
[16:22] <edmoore> that feeling when you pressurise your fuel tanks before seeing if the avionics works
[16:25] <edmoore> scrapped for today
[16:26] <edmoore> but hej, zatsh rocketrysh
[16:30] <PA3WEG> yup. its a scrub
[16:30] <PA3WEG> I:l ask what the new window is tomorrow
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[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:02] <LeoBodnar> any news from Aethers?
[17:02] <PA3WEG> new launch window to be announced, remote ground station for telemetry is being packed up. There is some equipment that can not stay during the night.
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[17:13] <mheld> anybody here poke around with a broadcom 43340?
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[17:17] <edmoore> not I, though I've seen them be very popular among people predisposed to getting excited by the Internet of Things
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[17:25] <myself> ahh, it's the chip used in the intel edison
[17:30] <edmoore> if broadcom is to live up to its reputation, you'll have no chance getting helpful documentation for it
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[17:31] <LeoBodnar> IoT can only turn on Hackaday types
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> otherwise it's pretty lame concept
[17:32] <edmoore> for every hackaday type you kill, 2 more come as replacements
[17:32] <edmoore> like the film Zulu
[17:33] <edmoore> Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Sixty! We dropped at least 60, wouldn't you say?
[17:33] <edmoore> Adendorff: That leaves only 3,940.
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[18:11] <LeoBodnar> is anybody in France listening on 144.39?
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[18:21] <nats`> Leo I can what interesting there ?
[18:22] <tjanos> hackaday: http://hackaday.com/2014/10/01/ask-hackaday-help-nasa-with-their-high-altitude-problem/
[18:22] <nats`> Too much hackaday and IoT bad word this evening.
[18:24] <edmoore> there was a chat about that yesterday i think
[18:24] <edmoore> parafoils at high alt
[18:26] <kf7fer> Haxxa: Ok I'm slow with the scroll back, but I found this thread to be interesting http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php/topic,149504.0.html (regarding SD power consumption and the Arduino).
[18:27] <tjanos> Ok, sry...
[18:27] <kf7fer> Especially comparing the "official" SD card library to the latest work by fat16lib
[18:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC4 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=EDUPIC4
[18:28] <edmoore> tjanos, no need to apologise
[18:29] <edmoore> just saying you might find the logs interesting if you're interested
[18:29] <tjanos> I found it now .. calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handle/10945/35310/Benton_On_Development_of_Autonomous_HAHO_Parafoil_System_for_Targeted_Payload_Return.pdf
[18:31] <kf7fer> tjanos: There was some interesting reading in the HaD post. I really like the idea of trying to simulate a maple seed. Not sure it solves the NASA problem but it would be cool for a HAB
[18:33] <edmoore> yeah
[18:33] <edmoore> autorotation down would be cool
[18:34] <edmoore> if you could reliably flare a few meters above ground level you could have an extremely smooth landing
[18:34] <edmoore> and a very fast descent
[18:37] <LeoBodnar> this guy is coming over http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=9&call=a%2FAETH22-3&timerange=3600&tail=3600 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/119854_trj001.gif
[18:38] <arko> oh wow
[18:38] <arko> what type of balloon?
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> some sort of sexy superpressure
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> amercian size payload
[18:38] <arko> jesus
[18:38] <arko> get inside your homes!
[18:39] <LeoBodnar> lol
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[19:08] <fsphil> [ot] any uk supplier of a crimper for those anderson power pole plugs popular in amateur radio circles?
[19:09] <fsphil> ... that doesn't cost £200
[19:11] <arko> oh b-66 where art thou :(
[19:11] <arko> yonder amonst the snow
[19:11] <arko> call home
[19:11] Action: arko is now a poet
[19:12] <fsphil> Oh mighty B, where might you be
[19:12] <fsphil> floating in the sea, or quietly avoiding me
[19:13] <lz1dev> excellent
[19:13] <lz1dev> now do a haiku
[19:14] <fsphil> I installed haiku
[19:14] <fsphil> on my PC
[19:14] <fsphil> now I can't do
[19:14] <fsphil> IRC
[19:14] <fsphil> what's the rules again? :)
[19:14] <mattbrejza> https://i.imgur.com/gR2yY3Q.jpg
[19:14] <fsphil> lol
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[19:23] <aadamson> Upu, ping PM?
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[19:23] <PA3WEG> fsphil: not that its any help, but I have tried various cheap general purpose crimpers: does not work!
[19:23] <PA3WEG> just in case you were wondering
[19:25] <PA3WEG> WiMo in germany sells one thats reasonably priced: http://wimo.de/powerpole-connectors_e.html
[19:25] <PA3WEG> I haven´t tried that one yet
[19:26] <myself> fsphil / PA3WEG : I own the official anderson ones, and a set of these: http://www.bcae1.com/images/jpegs/IMG_4291b.jpg
[19:26] <fsphil> ¬48, best I've seen yet
[19:26] <fsphil> though postage from .de might kill it
[19:26] <myself> the plain metal ones do a really good job on the 15 and 30 amp contacts, they don't work on the 45's.
[19:26] <myself> dunno where you might find 'em over there, but that jaw style is great.
[19:26] <fsphil> any good? I found this: http://www.radioworld.co.uk/MFJ-7602-Anderson_PowerPole_Connector_Crimping_Tool
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[19:27] <fsphil> the ratched one would be better
[19:28] <fsphil> ¬14 postage
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[19:34] <PA3WEG> the bare metal ones are not that great for me. I guess you have to be lucky
[19:35] <PA3WEG> conditions: 30A contacts, 4mm² wire
[19:35] <PA3WEG> and yes, I am applying it correctly
[19:35] <PA3WEG> maybe 30A contacts on 2,5mm² are better / worse
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[19:36] <PA3WEG> myself: can you maybe tell what you have succesfully used?
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[19:37] <PA3WEG> fsphil: thats not bad for a price, but I would be more comfortable with the ratchet one
[19:37] <PA3WEG> although it saves you some bucks
[19:37] <myself> well, I'm a yankee, so we use AWG wire sizes.. but I've used 30A contacts on sizes from 18-16-14 AWG and had fine results, even though 18 is supposed to be too small and require the 15A contacts.
[19:38] <myself> The 15A contacts are physically smaller, inside and out, and don't crimp properly in that simple tool. you need the 3-nest ratchet thing for the 15's.
[19:39] <myself> And the 45A contacts, of course, are an open-barrel size and don't work at all in that tool. (The ratchet includes the right die, of course.)
[19:39] <myself> s/open-barrel size/open-barrel type/
[19:39] <PA3WEG> sure
[19:40] <PA3WEG> my application would be AWG13 in the 30A contacts
[19:40] <myself> The 30A contacts, used in the ratchet tool, will make a beautiful crimp but only on the "right" wire sizes -- the ratchet tool won't let you over-squeeze a contact to make it grip a too-small wire, which you can do (with great success) in the simpler tool.
[19:41] <myself> That'll be fine with either tool. It's a hair too much wire for the 30A contacts, but if you're careful to not spread out the strands, it should be fine.
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[19:41] <PA3WEG> the problem is that the 30A contact bushings for size 13 (2,5mm²) are just too short for the simpler tools since they will manage only one indent
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[19:42] <PA3WEG> I have done over 20 sets untill now
[19:42] <PA3WEG> some are soldered instead of crimped, but I do prefer crimped
[19:42] <myself> One indent is fine, in my experience. Fully compress the copper so there are no voids in the strands at the crimp point, and it's a good mechanical connection.
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[19:42] <PA3WEG> I had one fail (out of 20)
[19:43] <PA3WEG> any way, I work in the space industry, so I might be overly correct in connector application ;)
[19:43] <myself> Then borrow your employer's $2,000 crimper... :)
[19:44] <PA3WEG> thats what I actually did ;) certified and all
[19:44] <PA3WEG> but that does not help fsphil
[19:44] <myself> I come from a phone network background, and I agree, the "right" crimper is often a hydraulic one with interchangeable dies. Such luxury is not often within the reach of hobbyists!
[19:45] <PA3WEG> did that before space ;)
[19:45] <PA3WEG> but more LSA+ and IDC110 stuff
[19:45] <myself> Well, as far as I'm concerned, the cheap crimpers do a really good job, if you're not afraid to really shove on the handles. The ratchet ones are better if you're doing hundreds of terminations, or working with the 45A contacts.
[19:46] <PA3WEG> I would agree, but the MFJ 18 pounds one is hard to beat for the occasional crimp....
[19:47] <PA3WEG> unless there is some UK based distributer for the West Mountain Radio one
[19:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JOTA2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=JOTA2
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[19:49] <PA3WEG> ah, someone launching during the Jamboree On The Air?
[19:49] <PA3WEG> that would be nice, I can demo that to the kids
[19:50] <myself> Y'all just need to move to the US; tools are cheap to start with and we never pay the crazy shipping.
[19:50] <myself> And there's a great hackerspace in Detroit with lots of cheap real-estate in the adjacent neighborhood. :)
[19:51] <PA3WEG> I will give it a thought.....;)
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[19:52] <myself> Hehe.
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[19:52] <PA3WEG> and yes, tools need to be cheaper here
[19:52] <fsphil> Detroit, home of Robocop
[19:52] <PA3WEG> but its more about finding the correct ones, thats usually the problem
[19:53] <fsphil> I'm surprised they're so hard to get here
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[19:53] <fsphil> lots of places sell the plugs
[19:53] <myself> also Robocrop..
[19:54] <myself> http://hackaday.com/2014/07/16/rbc-i3/
[19:54] <myself> (from that aforementioned hackerspace)
[19:54] <PA3WEG> and also cars....lots of cars ;)
[19:55] <myself> Just a few of those.
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[20:04] <Laurenceb__> US balloon spotted yet?
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: lol haiku
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> Limerick time
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[20:10] <LeoBodnar> There was this payload with picaxe
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> That someone has built for few bucks
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> Basic at heart,
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> It demanded restart
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> Every time it transmitted few quacks
[20:12] <PA3WEG> LeoBodnar: you are good ;)
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[20:26] <amell> jededu: what time is edupic4 launching?
[20:26] <jededu> Tomorrow possibly if I get this code sorted
[20:27] <jededu> Morning about 8
[20:28] <amell> i think B-66 must be done for. its way late for reporting in
[20:28] <Laurenceb__> its probably still up there
[20:28] <Laurenceb__> looks like the battery has turned into an intermittent short to me
[20:28] <amell> sure, but if payload is dead its done.
[20:29] <Laurenceb__> it might come back
[20:29] <amell> eternal stratospheric flotsam
[20:29] <Laurenceb__> it was out of action for nearly 4 weeks before
[20:29] <amell> B-64 has another week before i start getting worried
[20:30] <amell> so if this is an eternal floater, when/how is the arhab record going to go in?
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[20:35] <jededu> Seems to be working EDUPIC4 has much better power management
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[20:38] <amell> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10641222_10152260516617623_1841799575111524131_n.jpg?oh=0f176804ea572ec4b57814cdcc8c6aa2&oe=54C621DD&__gda__=1421065608_5092a2a1e06bb357b7152cb3d8bef575
[20:39] <amell> whose is this? it was taken at EMF by an attendee
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[22:31] <chris_99> On the UKHAS website is there a price list of hydrogen/helium?
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[22:37] <fsphil> nope. it changes over time, who is asking and phase of the moon
[22:38] <chris_99> hehe
[22:38] <gonzo_> in the UK, it's whatever BOC quote you
[22:39] <amell> The US are dumping helium on the market at the moment from reserves, so prices are artificially low.
[22:40] <chris_99> is there no other place in the UK to get it
[22:40] <chris_99> appart from BOC
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[22:40] <amell> all gas suppliers do He
[22:40] <amell> you can even get it in tesco
[22:41] <gonzo_> boc is the bigest. Only one I've used
[22:41] <chris_99> oh yeah i mean hydrogen amell
[22:41] <gonzo_> the stuff sold as balloon gas has a % of air in. As they assume people will breath it
[22:42] <amell> stupid people
[22:42] <chris_99> heh
[22:42] <chris_99> has anyone had a recent quote from BOC on hydrogen then? as i'm wondering how it compares to helium
[22:43] <amell> its a lot cheaper
[22:44] <amell> about 3x cheaper.
[22:44] <chris_99> oh neat
[22:44] <Upu> amell you've obviously not bought any He recently they are far from low
[22:44] <gonzo_> my lastH2 was about 18months ago. K size was 55 quid plus vat plus bottle hite
[22:44] <gonzo_> hire
[22:44] <amell> Upu: ?
[22:44] <myself> Heh. The Airgas over here in Michigan was giving our guy a lot of hassle about selling him hydrogen. Like, they claimed they wanted to "visit his facility and inspect it" before they'd fill his order... "You're welcome to do so, but the facility where this is being used, is a meadow west of ann arbor.."
[22:45] <Upu> He has been going up and up for years
[22:45] <chris_99> gonzo_, that sounds reasonable
[22:45] <amell> Upu: the prices right now are low. wait until the US shut down the He reserve in texas, then you will be squealing!
[22:45] <Upu> no they aren't low
[22:45] <Upu> they are very expensive
[22:45] <Upu> use H2
[22:46] <Upu> anyway I'm off night
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[22:46] <amell> you miss my point...
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[22:46] <aadamson> amell, been a few weeks since I checked but there was a law passed to *NOT shutdown the He reserve*
[22:46] <aadamson> over here
[22:46] <aadamson> still hasn't helped He prices however :)
[22:46] <gonzo_> he is not renewable, so I went for h2. (And the price!)
[22:46] <chris_99> gonzo_, don't suppose you know the volume of gas that was in that tank
[22:47] <fsphil> it's a shame given how much He exists out there
[22:47] <amell> aadamson: glad to hear it. He would shoot up loads if they did shut down reserve.
[22:47] <amell> i still maintain He prices are low, considering the rarity of it.
[22:47] <aadamson> http://www.nature.com/news/united-states-extends-life-of-helium-reserve-1.13819 - was in 2013 when they passed that law... don't know if there is a new date or note
[22:47] <aadamson> not
[22:48] <fsphil> but yea, just use H2 :)
[22:48] <chris_99> there isn't any difficulty in getting H2 though is there, like you don't need a licence
[22:49] <fsphil> nah
[22:49] <chris_99> cool
[22:49] <aadamson> ah, here's why prices are probably still staying high on He - "The helium reserve, by the way, is still going to run dry in five or 10 years. Maybe private enterprise will step up to the plate. But if not, somebodys going to have to organize one hell of a balloon recycling program."
[22:49] <fsphil> you do need to get a particular kind of regulator though
[22:49] <fsphil> which is a bit pricy
[22:49] <aadamson> the last paragraph on an article written in 2013 when they passed the law to extend the reserve
[22:49] <mfa298> chris_99: the only thing to be aware of is for H2 I believe you will need to get a suitable regulator which is ££, but it pays for itself after a few flights
[22:49] <chris_99> mmm, yeah i'm used to different regs, i do brewing so have 2 diff types for that
[22:49] <amell> you can generate H2 at home easily.
[22:49] <chris_99> haha i'd rather not do that though
[22:50] <chris_99> especially trying to compress it
[22:50] <fsphil> and I wouldn't store it indoors
[22:50] <gonzo_> not sure why there is supposed to be a special reg for H2. I sued a std 'cetty one
[22:50] <amell> couple of paperclips and a 9V battery is all you need.
[22:50] <chris_99> and some way to compress it amell
[22:50] <fsphil> and a long wait
[22:50] <chris_99> mmm
[22:52] <amell> aluminium foil and drain cleaner will also give you H2.
[22:52] <chris_99> indeed it will
[22:52] <gonzo_> store it in a latex bladder
[22:52] <fsphil> I suppose the H2 regulator is designed to reduce the chance of sparks? I dunno actually
[22:53] <fsphil> the boc website doesn't have many details
[22:53] <chris_99> i've got a regulator for mixed gas and a regulator for pure co2, so i assume the gas type affects what kind of regulator you need?
[22:56] <chris_99> but looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_regulator they look fairly simple mechanisms
[22:56] <fsphil> http://www.boconlineshop.com/shop/en/uk/boc-8500-series-hydrogen-%28h2%29-regulator
[22:56] <aadamson> some of the regulators have *flash back* prevention built in, others it's added externally
[22:57] <aadamson> and there are single and dual stage regulators, plus at least over here the fittings are different
[22:57] <chris_99> flash back prevention, as in to prevent oxygen going into it?
[22:57] <fsphil> it may simply be the fitting
[22:57] <aadamson> actually I think to prevent a combusion from coming back down the line to tank/regulator
[22:58] <chris_99> ah gotcha
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[22:58] <aadamson> they do similar with other *welding* gases as well
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[23:19] <gonzo_> I use flash back arrestors on my lines anyway
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[00:00] --- Fri Oct 3 2014