highaltitude.log.20140921

[00:02] <Ian__> It certainly is - time for bed in the UK already.
[00:03] <Ian__> But welcome to the early night shift. The guys from the antipodes will be along for the early morning shift in four or five hours time.
[00:03] <kf7fer> and us left coasters are just getting started
[00:03] <kf7fer> I guess it's 2nd shift for now, eh?
[00:04] <Ian__> Yes, a bit difficult to get everyone around the table at the same time, but it certainly makes better use of the bandwidth to have the continents each take a turn and work the overlaps.
[00:05] <kf7fer> FWIW, I used to work for a UK-based company and it worked very well to have someone on the US West coast to cover support when everybody else was in bed
[00:06] <kf7fer> was a pain to have company meetings early AM my time, but like you said, it's hard
[00:06] <Ian__> The company was obviously not keen on paying overtime rates . . .
[00:06] <kf7fer> I assume it's because those in the UK are smarter than we are? ;-)
[00:07] <Ian__> I bet that no one had support problems when the Indian desk was active . . . I don't know about that, for sure, but at least Scotland wised up on the way ahead, one way or another.
[00:08] <kf7fer> I'm going to plead being an ignorant American on the whole Scottish issue...
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[00:09] <kf7fer> But now I know that Scotch can only be made in Scotland. I didn't know that before
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[00:09] <kf7fer> and they don't know how to spell Whiskey
[00:09] <kf7fer> :-)
[00:09] <kf7fer> The things I learn from current events....
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[00:10] <Ian__> Maybe for the best Brad. (QRZ) it would have been messy, but as it is it's going to be different for everyone.
[00:11] <kf7fer> Well as off-topic as it is, it honestly does sound like maybe there were some lessons learned and that life will be better in the future... maybe?
[00:11] <Ian__> Oh, we all learned where the Falklands were (again) when Argentina took an interest, so it's adversity that fuels our knowledge of geography amongst other things
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[00:12] <Ian__> Best to learn about geopgraphy through HAB though. I have to go as I am bee farming in the morning.
[00:12] <kf7fer> wear protection :-)
[00:12] <kf7fer> good luck, sorry to be flippant
[00:12] <kf7fer> bees are pretty cool and important
[00:13] <Ian__> Hope to catch you again . . . yeah, telling people that you have a thing for naked girls in boxes is a great conversation starter. People take a shocked interest until they click what you mean . . .
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[00:15] <kf7fer> wow I guess things _are_ the same the world over eh?
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[00:16] <Ian__> Most certainly and there isn't anything wrong with flippancy. Gnite for now though.
[00:16] <kf7fer> goodnight
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[00:26] <aadamson> kf7fer, so did ya get it working?
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[00:51] <kf7fer> aadamson: you mean the 12lbs of...uh... stuff... in a 10lb sack? Not yet. Still working on it. Otherwise life is good
[00:51] <SIbot> In real units: 10lb = 4.5359237 kg
[00:51] <kf7fer> thanks SIbot
[00:52] <aadamson> hehe... yeah, that thing :)
[00:53] <kf7fer> I'll make it work. Spent the past couple days testing new boards that came in. I ended up 3 for 3... I'm really having problems with production and I think it's related to "too much solder paste"
[00:53] <aadamson> who's stencil are you using?
[00:53] <aadamson> and is it single part related?
[00:53] <kf7fer> I want to try something besides mylar stencils... OSH Stencils
[00:53] <kf7fer> I think it's me
[00:53] <kf7fer> or maybe outdated paste?
[00:53] <aadamson> from them I'd only use 3mil stencil, not 5
[00:54] <kf7fer> hmmm... been using the default. I think I get too much paste on some parts even if I hold the squeegee nearly vertical
[00:54] <aadamson> on my stainless one that I did with hackvana, I went through and all the passives and most of the chips, I decreased the paste layer size by 6mil from the copper size
[00:54] <kf7fer> oh so you say I need to change the board?
[00:55] <aadamson> I can't remember if he's defaulting to 3 or 5 mil
[00:55] <aadamson> not not the board, the paste layer
[00:55] <kf7fer> right, sorry. but more the design than the application
[00:55] <aadamson> in diptrace (I don't use eagle), I can adjust the paste layer openings separate from the copper layer
[00:55] <aadamson> yes
[00:55] <aadamson> it made a *huge* difference
[00:56] <aadamson> but because the mylar (isn't really mylar, but some other plastic) is cut with a laser
[00:56] <aadamson> the holes are rough and allow *more* paste that you really need
[00:56] <aadamson> plus having less with *center* the parts better
[00:56] <kf7fer> ah ok. I'll have to double-check what I actually did. I've just been sending in the raw .brd file and had a stencil made
[00:57] <kf7fer> like I said, with my last set I went 3 for 3. Before that, not so good.
[00:57] <kf7fer> I think new paste helps
[00:58] <kf7fer> vs the old, nasty stuff from May ;-)
[00:58] <aadamson> yeah I use this stuff, it's awesome
[00:59] <aadamson> http://www.cmlsupply.com/electronics-materials/solder-paste.html
[00:59] <aadamson> in fact on these .8mm boards I really need to redo my reflow profile, it only needs to go to 225C and it's going to 250...
[00:59] <aadamson> on 1.6mm it works great, but these thinner boards don't need the heat
[01:00] <aadamson> I had a tube of that for over 3 years and it worked great... finally ran out of the tube and used another of the same
[01:00] <aadamson> good stuff - but is leaded
[01:00] <kf7fer> Well I'm a leaded kinda guy... right now anyways :-)
[01:00] <kf7fer> I was looking for that but settled for http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=KE1507-ND&WT.z_header=search_go
[01:01] <kf7fer> didn't know if cmlsupply was a good place to order from. I'll try them next time
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[01:01] <aadamson> looks like similar stuff actually
[01:01] <aadamson> but that ez profile comes highly recommended by lots o folks
[01:02] <kf7fer> ok I'll try next time. This time, things went great. But I have struggled a bit and I know the design works so the problem is in my process
[01:02] <aadamson> yeah... where I have a problem once in a while is the dfn/qfn parts
[01:02] <aadamson> but I haven't had that problem since I went to a polished stainless stencil
[01:04] <kf7fer> well dfn has killed me really - I can make them work, but it's been really hard
[01:04] <kf7fer> TPS6120x
[01:05] <kf7fer> typically I'm not getting enough paste on the ground ends
[01:05] <aadamson> yeah, Si4463, ltc3526l in my case :)
[01:05] <kf7fer> took me a few boards to learn to add a few drops of paste on the end just to make sure...
[01:05] <aadamson> oh, that was another HUGE change that I made for the better
[01:05] <kf7fer> one of the reasons I fear the Si446x
[01:06] <aadamson> on those that have *thermal* ground pads, I use as little paste as I can, but still have paste
[01:06] <aadamson> this *sucks* the chip down when it flows
[01:06] <aadamson> oh the 446x is actually *really easy* and even easier to fix
[01:06] <aadamson> in all those that I've built, I've never had a problem with it
[01:06] <aadamson> at least its like 4x4 or something so it's really easy
[01:07] <kf7fer> really? I've started reflowing just the TPS6120x and then correcting any problems before I hand solder the rest of the parts
[01:07] <aadamson> I have a tps6120x board as well and never had a problem
[01:07] <aadamson> one thing I was told and so I did on this latest round of boards
[01:08] <aadamson> when you have a part that connects to ground
[01:08] <aadamson> actually I don't even thin you can do what I can with diptrace so ignore that
[01:08] <aadamson> but on all my *thermals* I *shunk* the paste layer on the ground thermals
[01:09] <aadamson> and I noticed a huge difference
[01:09] <aadamson> occasionally I'd get one that would *float* a little high - not any more... :)
[01:09] <kf7fer> I suspect I'm getting too much paste despite my best efforts. I'll have to give that a go. I do know how little paste is really needed
[01:09] <kf7fer> I've burned myself on the TPS6120x
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[01:09] <aadamson> if you look at the datasheet, some of them tell you in percentages
[01:10] <kf7fer> I learned to debug by putting my finger on the TPS6120x and then applying power... and disconnecting as soon as I feel the burn ;-)
[01:10] <aadamson> *or* at least give you a paste layer dimensional drawing
[01:10] <aadamson> do you like the 6120x?
[01:10] <kf7fer> not anymore than my ex-wife. Why?
[01:11] <aadamson> I tested it and the ltc3526l on a single AAA with a 66ma draw (just what I had in resistors)
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[01:11] <aadamson> and the 3526l would last longer on the AAA than the 6120x
[01:11] <aadamson> somewhere I have my notes on that
[01:11] <aadamson> I also checked the current draw at 2.0v on my board, and it was higher on the 6120x than the 3526l
[01:12] <aadamson> the efficiency curve was that much different
[01:12] <kf7fer> hmmm... only issue is I'll need 300mA or so
[01:12] <aadamson> I *am* going to try the mcp1640 too just because those that use like it
[01:12] <aadamson> yeah if you need that much that's going to be a problem I think
[01:12] <aadamson> and that may put you up in the curve where what I saw won't effect you...
[01:12] <aadamson> I only need < 100
[01:13] <kf7fer> so as I've heard... it sucks to be me ;-)
[01:13] <aadamson> you damn, high power guys :)
[01:14] <kf7fer> Guess so. Of course I keep reading how 1W isn't enough power on APRS
[01:14] <kf7fer> I'll be happy to get 250mW
[01:14] <aadamson> 1W... wat... I *only* ever run 10mW and today was a really good test
[01:15] <aadamson> over 200m of range on 10mW at 24000 feet on a dipole :)
[01:15] <SIbot> In real units: 24000 feet = 7315.2 metres
[01:15] <kf7fer> I've really been impressed at how well 10mW can really work.
[01:15] <aadamson> yep me too, it's amazing
[01:15] <kf7fer> I'm a convert on power, just too stupid to understand the designs
[01:17] <kf7fer> so do you tie N_RESET on your u-blox GPS high?
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[01:19] <kf7fer> that's pin 9 FWIW
[01:19] <kf7fer> just curious
[01:20] <kf7fer> I just saw a design that didn't pull pin 9 high; and I re-read the data sheet and it only says to basically NOT pull pin 9 low. Other than that, no comment
[01:20] <aadamson> hang on, let me handle a couple of other things and I'll get right back to you...
[01:20] <kf7fer> if you pull pin 9 high you can get VCC right to the edge of the GPS and make decoupling easier
[01:20] <kf7fer> ok
[01:20] <mheld> uhh, what the shit?
[01:21] <mheld> my ublox gps module is spitting out only '$'s
[01:21] <mheld> ... did I do something absurdly wrong?
[01:22] <kf7fer> never saw that. And I'd bet money I've killed more ublox GPSes than anyone else here ;-)
[01:23] <kf7fer> not that it means I know how they work... only how to leave them dead
[01:23] <kf7fer> oh.. you using TinyGPS?
[01:23] <mheld> nope
[01:23] <aadamson> kf7fer, ok, here's what I do.
[01:23] <kf7fer> so it actually gives $ in the raw data?
[01:24] <aadamson> easier to take a picture... hang on
[01:24] <kf7fer> I always get normal looking output but no real data
[01:24] <kf7fer> aadamson: np
[01:26] <aadamson> kf7fer, - http://imgur.com/qbk1hEp
[01:26] <kf7fer> really getting only '$'s sounds like a software problem. Try looking at the raw data with an FTDI adapter or something
[01:26] <aadamson> ignore the gps_en marking
[01:26] <kf7fer> you still power your ublox off and on?
[01:26] <aadamson> when I set the gps_en pin low, it turns on the gps
[01:26] <aadamson> when it's high its off
[01:27] <aadamson> yes, for now
[01:27] <aadamson> I can go either way, but all my flights have been with turning it on and off
[01:27] <kf7fer> right. ok, cool
[01:27] <aadamson> remember PSM is only a 50% duty cycle
[01:27] <kf7fer> so you do what I do... pull RESET_N high
[01:27] <aadamson> so if you use it default, it's a 1 sec cycle
[01:27] <kf7fer> does make board layout easier
[01:27] <aadamson> yes
[01:27] <aadamson> I thint that is what Anthony suggests as well
[01:28] <kf7fer> I had problems getting Trackuino recovering from powering the gps off... but my test code seemed to work ok. Not sure where the problem was
[01:28] <kf7fer> and by "off" I mean keeping VBAT alive
[01:29] <kf7fer> I just really wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid ;-)
[01:29] <aadamson> yes I do the same... vbat is live always
[01:29] <aadamson> the other 3 get switched
[01:29] <kf7fer> but stupid I mean tying N_RESET high
[01:29] <aadamson> by processor as needed
[01:29] <kf7fer> ok. As soon as I migrate to a real processor with a few more free I/O pins I'll do that ;-)
[01:30] <kf7fer> *cough*STM32*cough
[01:30] <aadamson> hehe
[01:31] <kf7fer> mheld: Sorry I can't help. How is your ublox set up?
[01:31] <mheld> kf7fer: looks like I did something wrong :-P
[01:31] <kf7fer> I really hate when that happens
[01:33] <mheld> kf7fer: if you're really interested -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63726/schematic.png
[01:34] <kf7fer> mheld: let me compare your schematic to the datasheet
[01:34] <kf7fer> where is pin 1?
[01:35] <kf7fer> sorry, am lazy. I should be able to see it
[01:36] <mheld> hah don't worry about it -- the stuff runs and works
[01:36] <mheld> it's just not super efficient now
[01:37] <kf7fer> but wasn't it not working?
[01:37] <mheld> pin one is bottom right of the Max7 block
[01:37] <mheld> it was a firmware thing
[01:37] <mheld> <- pebkac
[01:37] <kf7fer> oh. I'd really give you a hard time if I hadn't done the same thing myself ;-)
[01:38] <kf7fer> your layout is 180 degrees from mine
[01:38] <mheld> I only need to sample GPS once/twice a day
[01:39] <mheld> and trying to conserve battery as much as possible
[01:39] <mheld> so, screwing with firmware to fully power off the gps receiver and do fun stuff with airplane mode for the gsm receiver
[01:39] <kf7fer> nice. You should really add a 0.1uF decoupling cap close to the MAX gps
[01:39] <mheld> + sleep mode in the atmel xmega
[01:40] <mheld> honestly, I'm not going to be using ublox next rev
[01:40] <mheld> we've already picked the simcom918 (next gen 908)
[01:40] <kf7fer> really? why not? don't care about the size/weight?
[01:40] <kf7fer> cheaper?
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[01:40] <kf7fer> your goals seem much different than the typical HAB tracker
[01:41] <kf7fer> don't care about GPS updates
[01:41] <kf7fer> looks like power/weight isn't an issue
[01:41] <kf7fer> but still a cool problem to solve :-)
[01:41] <mheld> hah power is the major issue
[01:41] <mheld> I need it to consume the least amount of power
[01:41] <mheld> we're putting a bunch of D cells in it, too, so we get less leakage
[01:42] <kf7fer> ublox is too much? I haven't tested it but I keep seeing reports of 5mA once a fix is obtained in cyclic mode. You can beat that?
[01:42] <mheld> the problem is that I only need data once (maybe twice) a day
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[01:42] <kf7fer> ah... so turn the damn thing off and who cares what it costs to get a fix?
[01:42] <mheld> so it seems to be cheaper, battery-wise, to keep the receiver off as much as possible
[01:43] <kf7fer> right. I got you
[01:43] <kf7fer> So really cheaper than the $15US ublox MAX-8 price?
[01:44] <kf7fer> <just guessing, didn't buy any>
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[01:44] <kf7fer> <quantity 10 at least>
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[01:44] <mheld> kf7fer: we're putting 35k units in the field next month :-)
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[01:45] <kf7fer> heh. well then, guess you really can beat qty 25 heh? :-)
[01:45] <kf7fer> good luck - sounds like a fun project
[01:45] <mheld> thanks
[01:45] <mheld> just gotta make it work
[01:46] <mheld> lucky that I'm not actually touching the production stuff
[01:46] <mheld> just this demo unit
[01:46] <kf7fer> the less you touch the less blame spreads ;-)
[01:47] <kf7fer> I believe that is a universal truth
[01:47] <kf7fer> don't be "that guy" who updates the e-mail server when the head of sales can't remember his password ;-)
[01:48] <mheld> hah, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm a pretty shitty mediocre engineer
[01:50] <kf7fer> don't put yourself down too much. There is a ton of stuff out in this world that was done "just good enough". But then again, I'm old, bitter, and jaded
[01:50] <kf7fer> but really you don't have to be a genius to do good work
[01:51] <kf7fer> especially if you care. I've seen too much stuff done by people who don't
[01:51] <ulfr> Too many don't.
[01:51] <ulfr> That's why we have highly sophisticated toasters with bugs.
[01:51] <kf7fer> that's really the problem isn't it?
[01:52] <ulfr> I totally agree.
[01:52] <DL7AD_> does anybody has information abou t BC02 and BC03 ?
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[01:54] <mheld> kf7fer: :-) I'm good at other things
[01:54] <mheld> I'm a generalist
[01:55] <DL7AD_> !flight BC02
[01:55] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD_: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[01:58] <kf7fer> mheld: being a generalist is good. Don't be a 51yo specialist in a product nobody uses anymore ;-)
[01:59] <kf7fer> but to be more on-topic: Does it help that hardware I designed and built just went 2 for 2 on flights in the last 10 days?
[02:01] <mheld> 2/2 is good, no?
[02:01] <kf7fer> yessir! By that I mean two flights, two recoveries. Film @ 11
[02:02] <kf7fer> no failures from a guy that a few years ago couldn't solder two wires together
[02:02] <kf7fer> literally I'm afraid
[02:03] <mheld> it's scary shit
[02:03] <mheld> heat is no fun
[02:03] <kf7fer> while I'm being a whore, see https://github.com/KF7FER/leoTracker
[02:03] <mheld> I've burnt off bits of my arm that I should probably still have
[02:03] <mheld> kf7fer: I take it you're in the aerospace world?
[02:04] <kf7fer> heh. I hear you. And god no, like I said, I'm an idiot. I've spent 25 years working software and now I just play with hardware
[02:05] <kf7fer> I'm an old systems programmer who did too many applications. Nothing cool or fun until I picked up a soldering iron and an AVR
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[02:05] <Ojo> hi
[02:06] <kf7fer> I am disappointed in the attitude I see so often in software development. It ships, it's good. Beyond that, nobody cares. Was it really good?
[02:06] <kf7fer> Ojo: Hi! how's it going?
[02:09] <mheld> man, the celllocate feature of the ublox GSM module is horrendous
[02:09] <mheld> it's like a km off
[02:11] <kf7fer> it has that feature?
[02:11] <mheld> yeah
[02:12] <kf7fer> well you know it's a big world and a km is much smaller. I'd be happy to narrow my world-wide search ;-)
[02:12] <mheld> and for some reason they disabled the encoded version of their cell-deep scan
[02:12] <mheld> kf7fer: we run a service that gets to be way more accurate using cell data
[02:12] <mheld> but I can't get the cell scan reliably off the modem
[02:13] <kf7fer> well I'd hope that the cell data would be a bit better. But that seems disappointing
[02:14] <mheld> I can pretty much only see the stuff as human-readable text
[02:14] <mheld> which is irritating as hell
[02:14] <mheld> MCC:<MCC>, MNC:<MNC>, LAC:<LAC>, Ci:<CI>
[02:15] <mheld> and unfortunately I'm futzing with raw atmel avr C stuff, so I don't have any reliable "read line from uart"
[02:20] <kf7fer> well unless you are a tool, the Arduino doesn't either. It's typically a character at a time to build a string. And no, not a String.
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[03:22] <mrShrimp> I think I might have broken my gps -_-
[03:22] <mrShrimp> Is anyone on who would mind helping me verify if this is true based on what I did to it?
[03:30] <kf7fer> mrShrimp: why do you think you broke it? And what kind is it?
[03:30] Nick change: davo_ -> davo
[03:30] <kf7fer> They don't call me the MAX-6 killer for nothing ;-)
[03:31] <kf7fer> wait... nobody calls me that
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[03:32] <lz1dev> the infamous maxi-6-cant-even-kill-a-fly
[03:32] <lz1dev> never heard of you
[03:33] <mheld> hah of course I can't do a network scan in airplane mode
[03:33] <mheld> duh
[03:33] <kf7fer> well killed is relative. Most of them did never see a fix again
[03:33] <kf7fer> mheld: oops. I need to look closer at the modes, never noticed that
[03:34] <kf7fer> but really I do wonder... a couple of times I've apparently rendered a MAX-6 unable to get a fix. Seems to work but the number of sats varies wildly... the hardware looks ok
[03:35] <kf7fer> and if you move the hardware and the problem follows, doesn't that mean you broke it?
[03:38] <mrShrimp> It's a max6
[03:38] <mrShrimp> from hab supplies
[03:38] <kf7fer> just the bare gps?
[03:39] <mrShrimp> the 5v arduino-compatible breakout board
[03:39] <kf7fer> ok. So honestly - most of this hardware is really hard to outright kill
[03:39] <kf7fer> why do you think it's broken?
[03:39] <mrShrimp> what I did to it:
[03:40] <mrShrimp> I had it plugged into an Arduino Uno, because I was testing my parsing code.
[03:40] <mrShrimp> troubleshooting
[03:41] <mrShrimp> and I decided I might try and save time by flashing a sketch without unplugging the GPS power wires (it was getting annoying after a while having to plug and unplug :P)
[03:41] <kf7fer> ok that shouldn't have killed your gps if you just left in plugged in while flashing
[03:41] <mrShrimp> so I did that, and now the stuff coming out of the GPS is not recognizable by TinyGPS or TinyGPSPlus
[03:41] <mrShrimp> yeah
[03:42] <mrShrimp> I'll link to an output from the com port
[03:42] <kf7fer> so you're getting the $ from those programs?
[03:42] <kf7fer> oops my bad, other gps problem ;-)
[03:42] <kf7fer> please. I wouldn't think that just leaving the gps plugged in while you trying to flash new software would do any real damage
[03:42] <mrShrimp> http://pastebin.com/2C69ArhC
[03:43] <kf7fer> looks like a baud rate mismatch at first glance
[03:43] <mrShrimp> This is what the GPS is putting out with the TinyGPS simple example.
[03:43] <mrShrimp> ....
[03:43] <mrShrimp> :P
[03:44] <mrShrimp> let me try something
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[03:44] <kf7fer> So did I brag that my name is listed here? http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[03:45] <mrShrimp> You were totally right
[03:45] <mrShrimp> .
[03:45] <mrShrimp> thank you so much, haha
[03:45] <kf7fer> god loves me?
[03:45] <kf7fer> glad to help :-)
[03:46] <mrShrimp> btw, would you happen to know why TinyGPS isn't reporting some values correctly for me?
[03:46] <kf7fer> heh. Not really. But what doesn't work?
[03:47] <mrShrimp> I switched to TinyGPSPlus because of it, but ran into some more problems :P
[03:47] <mrShrimp> With TinyGPS, everything was parsing correctly
[03:47] <kf7fer> I did some work with Mikal in the early days and never did any of the ++ stuff
[03:47] <mrShrimp> except for altitude and satellite count
[03:48] <mrShrimp> Altitude wasn't coming because there wasn't a 3D fix.
[03:48] <kf7fer> oh... I actually did a mod for Trackuino that adds sat count (https://github.com/KF7FER/trackuino)
[03:48] <kf7fer> and MAX-6/7/8 support at the same time. Mostly the work of some guy called Upu
[03:49] <mrShrimp> cool
[03:49] <kf7fer> so you couldn't get the sat count nor altitude from tinyGPS?
[03:49] <mrShrimp> Upu has helped me with this payload many times before, haha
[03:49] <kf7fer> he sure gets around
[03:50] <mrShrimp> well, both were reporting, but the sat count was constantly 255, when in the NMEA data I could see that it was 0-3 satellites.
[03:50] <kf7fer> 255 really sounds like some sort of overflow
[03:50] <mrShrimp> The altitude data was reporting a constant value of 100000
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[03:51] <mrShrimp> It was a 1 with some number of zeroes behind it, but I can't remember how many
[03:51] <kf7fer> hmmm... sorry, no idea. The stuff worked when I tested it but typically the altitude data was all over the place
[03:51] <kf7fer> so you just hooked your MAX-6 breakout to a Uno and this was the result?
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[03:52] <mrShrimp> yep
[03:52] <mrShrimp> I'm hoping to launch tomorrow, so I am frantically working out the kinks in the TinyGPS code :P.
[03:52] <mrShrimp> already filed a NOTAM and everything
[03:52] <kf7fer> I can imagine. Where are you?
[03:53] <mrShrimp> Washington State
[03:53] <kf7fer> Wow, my kids live in Clark County
[03:53] <kf7fer> Vancouver
[03:53] <mrShrimp> neat!
[03:54] <kf7fer> so you're having this problem with the example code?
[03:55] <mrShrimp> well, I'm using the example code as an outline, and I'm concatenating the data into a string of the format that the habitat tracker will recognize
[03:56] <kf7fer> maybe it's a code problem? Would you put some of what you're using in pastebin?
[03:57] <kf7fer> my kids would be ashamed if I didn't help someone who lives in a more civilized part of America ;-)
[03:57] <mrShrimp> Sure!
[03:57] <mrShrimp> haha, it is nice out here
[03:58] <kf7fer> sure is... at least right now. I live about 60 miles from the OR/WA border (due South)
[03:58] <SIbot> In real units: 60 miles = 96.56064 kilometres
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[04:00] <mrShrimp> Cool! You must know Voodoo doughnuts then!
[04:00] <mrShrimp> http://pastebin.com/NxdDdYSH
[04:00] <mrShrimp> This is the whole sketch.
[04:00] <kf7fer> if you saw my fat ass you'd think so but honestly I've never had the good fortune to go there
[04:01] <mrShrimp> It's crazy how popular it is, even way up where I am.
[04:02] <mrShrimp> People will drive to Portland just to eat the doughnuts, or so I've heard, haha.
[04:03] <mrShrimp> anyways, the problem I've been having with the code is with the sprintf() function that concatenates the data into "data"
[04:03] <kf7fer> I've heard that too. So you commented out the altitude conversion... did that not work?
[04:03] <kf7fer> oh... that screams some sort of unit conversion problem
[04:04] <kf7fer> So you're getting reasonable values otherwise?
[04:04] <kf7fer> like s4 - speed
[04:05] <mrShrimp> I'm getting everything in this version I think.
[04:05] <kf7fer> so this is with tinyGPS++?
[04:06] <mrShrimp> Yeah It's when I uncomment the satellite part from lines 77-84 and add in a spot for s5 in the sprintf() function that things go wrong.
[04:07] <mrShrimp> sprintf(data,"$$SP1,%d%s,%s,%s,%s,%s,%s",gps.sentencesWithFix(),utc,s1,s2,s3,s4,s5);
[04:08] <kf7fer> Sorry I'm a bit behind the curve on the new stuff
[04:08] <mrShrimp> When I do that, it outputs some crazy number for satellites in the final string "data", like 2170.
[04:08] <mrShrimp> I'll post another pastebin
[04:09] <mrShrimp> That one's a bit confusing.
[04:09] <kf7fer> ok
[04:11] <mrShrimp> http://pastebin.com/tC0iQ2FP
[04:12] <mrShrimp> This one is where I initially ran into problems.
[04:13] <mrShrimp> I set the default value for the "sats" variable to be 9, so I could identify it more easily. In the debug section, I could see that "sats" was 9, but It showed up as 2170 in the "data" string.
[04:13] <SIbot> In real units: 2170 in = 55118 mm
[04:14] <mrShrimp> haha
[04:14] <mrShrimp> SIbot? that's awesome!
[04:14] <mrShrimp> I have 3 bushels of corn.
[04:14] <mrShrimp> I have 3 feet of hair.
[04:14] <SIbot> In real units: 3 feet = 0.9144 metre
[04:24] <kf7fer> mrShrimp: I don't see a problem. What you describe almost sounds like a mismatch between the data and the format string but the code looks ok
[04:25] <kf7fer> still looking...
[04:25] <mrShrimp> okay
[04:27] <mrShrimp> I'm testing to see if TinyGPS++ is encoding any sentences. It isn't with the code I posted most recently, but I could clearly see the NMEA data with the Simple Device example from TinyGPS.
[04:27] <mrShrimp> *the simple test example from TinyGPS
[04:28] <kf7fer> So does the altitude work in that code?
[04:29] <mrShrimp> Idk. I haven't had the chance to test it with a fix yet, but TinyGPS++ was parsing the altitude earlier when I ran an example from it without any modifications.
[04:29] <mrShrimp> I think the issue I am having is with putting the stuff all in one "data" string :P
[04:29] <mrShrimp> shows how good I am at coding, haha
[04:30] <mrShrimp> which is not at all
[04:30] <kf7fer> well maybe you were actually meant to write code on a platform with a bit more memory ;-)
[04:31] <kf7fer> you're doing what I typically do... even though you can send the data a bit at a time, I tend to buffer it. Even when I shouldn't
[04:31] <kf7fer> but I was just wondering... you call dtostrf for all the other values... why not satellites?
[04:32] <kf7fer> because it's a small value?
[04:32] <kf7fer> I am stupid, sorry
[04:32] <Darkside> its not a double
[04:32] <Darkside> its an integer
[04:32] <Darkside> and the integer to string conversion in sprintf works fine
[04:32] <mrShrimp> the gps.satellites.value() function on TinyGPS++ outputs a u32 integer
[04:33] <Darkside> wat
[04:33] <Darkside> it outsputs a u32?!
[04:33] <mrShrimp> apparently
[04:33] <mrShrimp> I tried %u
[04:33] <Darkside> why?! its never goign to be higher than 32
[04:33] <mrShrimp> and nothing happened
[04:33] <mrShrimp> http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[04:33] <mrShrimp> says it right there
[04:34] <mrShrimp> sorry
[04:34] <mrShrimp> http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygpsplus/
[04:34] <mrShrimp> right there
[04:34] <mrShrimp> and %lu
[04:34] <mrShrimp> still nothing
[04:35] <mrShrimp> as in, I replaced the %d with a %u in the sprintf() for the sats value
[04:35] <kf7fer> does say sats is u32
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[04:36] <mrShrimp> Well, the default value of 9 that I set it as is a normal signed integer.
[04:36] <mrShrimp> It would only be u32 if it got a fix, which it did (it was reporting utc time), but for some reason the debug section still reported sats as being 9.
[04:37] <mrShrimp> so %d should have worked in the sprintf(), because it was of the right type.
[04:38] <mrShrimp> Sorry, I was referring to the "sats" variable in my code. The number of sats reported from TinyGPS is u32.
[04:38] <mrShrimp> TinyGPS++ at least
[04:39] <kf7fer> like I said, "does say sats is u32" ;-)
[04:39] <kf7fer> Sorry I can't see a problem, but a value of 255 just screams some sort of conversion problem
[04:42] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=550
[04:42] <Darkside> at least I got to chase one balloon today!
[04:43] <mrShrimp> hmm, now TinyGPS++ won't encode, but TinyGPS will
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[04:46] <mrShrimp> nvm, it still works
[04:46] <mrShrimp> I forgot to change the baud rate again -_-
[04:46] <mrShrimp> It's getting late.
[04:53] <mrShrimp> $$SP1,0,00:00:00,0.200000,0.300000,3,2163*511A *511A 0.200000 0.300000 3 2.0 9 0 0 0
[04:54] <mrShrimp> $$SP1,0,00:00:00,0.200000,0.300000,3,2163*511A
[04:54] <mrShrimp> That's what I'm getting out now.
[04:54] <mrShrimp> The 2163 changes around. It was 2170 and 2168 earlier, and It's supposed to be 9.
[04:55] <mrShrimp> The numbers after it are the debug outputs.
[05:12] <mrShrimp> now it's printing two "data" strings in the com port
[05:12] <mrShrimp> then stopping
[05:12] <mrShrimp> like some buffer is overflowing or something.
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[05:23] <mrShrimp> FIXED IT!
[05:23] <mrShrimp> whoot!
[05:28] <mrShrimp> and it works perfectly with a fix
[05:28] <mrShrimp> Thanks kf7fer and Darkside for helping out!
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[07:05] <Rebounder> wow, B64 still aroudn
[07:06] <mrShrimp> It must be a record.
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[07:06] <mrShrimp> Hey, is anyone here who could approve a flight document for me?
[07:06] <mrShrimp> for the tracker
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[07:42] <SA6BSS> mrShrimp: try #habhub channel
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[07:49] <mfa298> mrShrimp: if this is just for testing the payload gets on the map all you need is a valid payload doc which doesn't need approving.
[07:49] <mfa298> the flight docs are just for when you're actually launching the balloon
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[08:40] <jededu> Can somone help with a small eaglr problem
[08:40] ic910 (535439a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.84.57.161) joined #highaltitude.
[08:40] <jededu> Eagle
[08:41] <ic910> good morning
[08:42] <ic910> !flights
[08:42] <SpacenearUS> 03ic910: Current flights: 03SP5NVX 10(96ab), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b), 03Peach-6 10(6cd9), 03PS-21 10.142Mhz OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(b6ee)
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[08:51] <mrShrimp> SA6BSS: thanks! mfa298: I am planning on launching today in about 10.5 hours. Would this be feasible, or does it need to be approved a few days in advance?
[08:52] <mikestir> jededu: what's your eagle problem?
[08:54] <jededu> I am modding my power traces when I create a polygon and rename it batt for instance press ratsnest there is no isolation
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[08:54] <jededu> I have set it in polygon properties
[08:57] <MarkIreland> mrShrimp: where you based?
[08:57] <mrShrimp> Washington State
[08:58] <daveake> Is this the tracker code you were working on last night?
[09:00] <mrShrimp> Yes. It works now.
[09:00] <daveake> <yes prime minister>That's a brave decision</ypm>
[09:00] <daveake> latex flight?
[09:00] <mrShrimp> Are you asking me?
[09:01] <mrShrimp> :P
[09:01] <daveake> yes is it a latex flight?
[09:01] <mrShrimp> it's a 600g kaymont
[09:01] <daveake> and what type of gps?
[09:01] <mrShrimp> I think they call it totex
[09:01] <mrShrimp> ubloxmax6
[09:01] <daveake> and does your code put the gps into flight mode?
[09:01] <mrShrimp> yes
[09:01] <daveake> cool
[09:01] <mrShrimp> I used Upu's tutorial for that.
[09:02] <daveake> I'm sure you can understand the questioning
[09:02] <mrShrimp> sure
[09:02] <daveake> Personally I'd want to do a *lot* more testing than that
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[09:03] <mrShrimp> I have my doubts, but I'm pretty confident it will work.
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[09:04] <edmoore> i love logging in on a fresh sunday morning to see fighting talk
[09:05] <daveake> good timing then :p
[09:07] <jededu> This is what I get http://imgur.com/teGlYRC
[09:08] <mrShrimp> So to get it approved to I go to #habhub?
[09:08] <mikestir> jededu: change the "rank" on the ground polygon to higher value than the new one
[09:08] <daveake> flight doc? yes
[09:08] <mrShrimp> Okay, thanks.
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[09:09] <edmoore> i do wish eagle would update its graphics to support retina screens
[09:09] <jededu> Thanks mikestir worked
[09:11] <MarkIreland> edmoore: agreed! Resorted to running it on windows in parallels
[09:11] <edmoore> resorted to fighting kicad-osx build scripts
[09:11] <edmoore> lost
[09:12] <MarkIreland> haha
[09:13] <mikestir> I'm sure it still looks like a work of art in comparison to "professional" tools like mentor
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[09:13] <mikestir> most of those look like their UI design was done once and for all in the 1970s
[09:13] <mattbrejza> omg modelsim
[09:13] <edmoore> yes i had to use pro-engineer for a bit
[09:13] <edmoore> sucked
[09:13] <edmoore> solidworks now
[09:14] <edmoore> solidworks is still annoying
[09:14] <edmoore> everyone button has an alternate function
[09:14] <edmoore> 1) the function suggested by the picture
[09:14] <edmoore> 2) crash solidworks
[09:15] <edmoore> i try and do things which seem natural to me like setting variables for dimensions and having all the variables defined in a table for different configurations of that part, but it's some vb/excel nightmare that doesn't work for me about 60% of the time
[09:16] <edmoore> i still love it because the alternative is too slow for words
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[09:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[09:21] <MaXimaN> Morning all
[09:22] <MaXimaN> Interesting that B-64 and B-66 seem to be sharing the same rate of charge issue
[09:23] <MaXimaN> Perhaps this is just due to thermal cycling of the battery over this amount of time
[09:23] <craag_philcrump> They are both quite far north and we're not at high summer anymore
[09:23] <craag_philcrump> That'll be a factor
[09:24] <MaXimaN> Indeed. Certainly going well below -40C on more than a few nights
[09:24] <craag_philcrump> I mean with the amount of solar power availible too
[09:25] <MaXimaN> Well, the voltage looks healthy on the cells at least. I did think on B-66 that maybe a cell had got damaged because the rate of charge was so slow
[09:26] <MaXimaN> And 66 was at a lower latitude
[09:27] <MaXimaN> Either way, considering what all three payloads and envelopes have been through it's an incredible achievement
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[09:28] <MaXimaN> I'll admit, when Leo said he had made his envelopes out of Sainsbury's white pedal bin liners and double-sided sticky tape, I was skeptical it would succeed
[09:29] <MaXimaN> And yet here we are
[09:30] <craag_philcrump> :)
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[09:31] <craag_philcrump> Hopefully finishing up some light trackers today to have a go at some point soon :)
[09:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=SP1
[09:31] <craag_philcrump> WIP: https://github.com/philcrump/lora-tracker/blob/master/board/board.png
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[09:32] <MaXimaN> Looking good
[09:32] <MaXimaN> What radio module are you using?
[09:32] <craag_philcrump> Mostly Matt Brezja's work btw, im just trimming a couple down for myself
[09:32] <craag_philcrump> RFM98
[09:32] <craag_philcrump> (lora)
[09:33] <craag_philcrump> (+rtty)
[09:33] <MaXimaN> Ahhh right. I was looking at the pad sizes and thinking they look pretty big :)
[09:33] <MaXimaN> Cool
[09:33] <craag_philcrump> AA on back+stepup+stm32+rfm98
[09:34] <MaXimaN> M0+?
[09:34] <mattbrejza> you might want to increase the inductor size to 1008 in the end craag_philcrump
[09:34] <SIbot> In real units: 1008 in = 25603.2 mm
[09:34] <craag_philcrump> No, M3
[09:34] <MaXimaN> Nice
[09:34] <mattbrejza> its a M0
[09:34] <mattbrejza> stm32f030
[09:35] <craag_philcrump> ah f0
[09:35] <craag_philcrump> f0/f1 being M0/M3 confuses me..
[09:35] <mattbrejza> very few things actually need more than a M0
[09:35] <mattbrejza> normally its a case of pins and peripherals
[09:36] <craag_philcrump> Yeah I'll probably refork yours matt, keep it as similar as possible.
[09:36] <craag_philcrump> anyway, need to fix the battery connector on the car first - bbl!
[09:36] <mattbrejza> lol sounds more important
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> MaXimaN: 'charge rate is so slow' - it's not that simple
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> MaXimaN: the time it took to get from 3.2 to 3.7 is actually reasonable - if not too fast
[09:46] <mikestir> one thing I noticed recently which may make M0(+) less attractive in some applications is that it's the only Cortex-M that can't do unaligned memory accesses
[09:48] <zyp> why do you need to?
[09:49] <mikestir> implementing some network protocols efficiently would be one reason
[09:50] <mikestir> ublox thought about it when designing UBX it seems, though
[09:50] <zyp> the compiler will decompose unaligned accesses into multiple accesses when you're compiling for a target that doesn't support it
[09:50] <mikestir> not in my experience it won't
[09:50] <zyp> gcc will, -mpcu=cortex-m0 implies -mno-unaligned-access
[09:50] <mikestir> if you're dereferencing a pointer then the compiler doesn't know
[09:50] <zyp> sure
[09:51] <mikestir> and it would generally be an issue when you're casting a byte buffer to a struct or something
[09:51] <zyp> but if you're dereferencing a struct pointer with an unaligned field offset, it will
[09:52] <zyp> provided the struct itself is aligned, of course
[09:53] <zyp> and if you're conserned about doing stuff efficiently, you wouldn't use m0 anyway
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[09:53] <mikestir> that was kind of my point
[09:53] <zyp> I mean, for other reasons :)
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[09:57] <jededu> Modified power trace http://gerblook.org/pcb/NGsCxaVos3uHUnMLtyevuZ#front
[09:58] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[09:58] <Lunar_Lander> why do you use the 10-pin ISP?
[09:58] <Lunar_Lander> if I may ask
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[10:02] <jededu> Programming the PIC upu's idea its a friction fit
[10:07] <Upu> morning
[10:07] <Upu> use an offset header as well jededu so you can just push some pins in
[10:11] <jededu> Ok more good ideas
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[10:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5NVX - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=SP5NVX
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[11:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kalel - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=Kalel
[11:16] <MaXimaN> SpeedEvil: I was comparing against previous charge rates in earlier weeks. In relative terms charging is slower. The max voltage reached is also peaking at a much lower level.
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=M0RPI_chase
[11:24] <ic910> !flights
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> 03ic910: Current flights: 03SP5NVX 10(96ab), 03Attack of the Flying Kittens v2 10(8b74), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b), 03Peach-6 10(6cd9), 03PS-21 10.142Mhz OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(b6ee)
[11:26] <ic910> what time will fly kalel he is on the map now here
[11:27] <mfa298> that may just be testing
[11:28] <daveake> Being recovered from a tree
[11:28] <daveake> I just replayed the last position from the flight
[11:28] <mfa298> It also looks like Kalel might be with the Doctor, I'm pretty sure that time is in the future
[11:29] <daveake> So we know where to go :)
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[11:29] <mfa298> that would explain the odd time then.
[11:29] <daveake> Yes I did consider getting the time right, but not for long :)
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[11:48] <SpeedEvil> MaXimaN: be careful about temperature.
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> MaXimaN: temperature in the morning has varied considerably
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[12:00] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy66xelPbew
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Falcon 9 earlier stage sea-landing, now with recovered audio
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[12:30] <daveake> Kalel rescue scheduled for 3:30pm now
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[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil, very nice :)
[13:11] Action: SpeedEvil sighs and wants to make a hexacopter.
[13:11] <MaXimaN> SpeedEvil: I'll sell you mine if you like :)
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> MaXimaN: With 6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_T700 engines, and 18m diameter rotors with a MTOW of 60 tons or so.
[13:12] <SIbot> In real units: 60 tons = 54431.084 kg
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> I meant metric tons you stupid bot
[13:12] <MaXimaN> Hang on, let me check if mine matches that spec
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:12] <MaXimaN> No
[13:12] <MaXimaN> :)
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering about using it to catch falling rockets.
[13:27] <mheld> anybody have any recs on continuously reading uart from a ublox gps module until it gets a proper fix?
[13:27] <mheld> (with a timeout, of course)
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[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=M0RPI_chase
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[14:13] <mfa298> mheld: keep transmitting something (although have something so you know it's not a valid fix) and ideally use interrupts where possible
[14:14] <mheld> got it
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[14:15] <mfa298> was there something in particular you were wondering about - that was a pretty open question you asked
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[14:25] <mightymik> kalel is on the map again?
[14:25] <mfa298> mightymik: recovery mission
[14:27] <mightymik> is it still out in a field or ... ? IIRC it had kinda a weak warbly signal that wouldn't decode
[14:27] <mfa298> stuck up a tree for that one i think
[14:28] <mightymik> k
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[14:59] <MaXimaN> I can't seem to get the batc feeds to display, even though it says Dave is streaming
[15:03] <edmoore> i think dave is like neo
[15:03] <edmoore> after a while he no longer needs a device to provide an internet connection to batc
[15:03] <edmoore> he just is always connected
[15:04] <edmoore> can stream direct from his eyes
[15:05] <MaXimaN> Not 24/7 hopefully. There are some things that can't be unseen
[15:05] <mfa298> MaXimaN: I think the is streaming isn't streaming on batc it's just based on if someone has viewed recently
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[15:36] <MaXimaN> mfa298: Aha, okay that would make sense. Kinda. :)
[15:37] <craag_philcrump> He's right.
[15:37] <craag_philcrump> There's no way to get whether a stream is working or not from the Adobe FMS API
[15:37] <craag_philcrump> Rather annoying
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[16:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> whats the superman logo about? :-)
[16:01] <craag_philcrump> they're rescuing superman from a tree
[16:01] <craag_philcrump> literally
[16:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe ok
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[17:10] <daveake> back
[17:10] <daveake> Sorry the 3g dropped out shortly after I started streaming
[17:10] <daveake> Despite the 3G implant edmoore
[17:11] <edmoore> nothing a strong drink won't fix
[17:11] <daveake> Need to cook first
[17:11] <edmoore> brain equivalent of turning it off and on again
[17:11] <edmoore> success?
[17:11] <daveake> Anyway superman recovered
[17:11] <edmoore> grand
[17:11] <daveake> "easy" according to the tree climbers
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:12] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> I need to change this font. 'After I started screaming'
[17:12] <daveake> :)
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[18:22] <MaXimaN> For anyone interested who is not on the London Hackspace mailing list, they are running a Foundation licence training and examination on the weekend of Oct 25/26
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[19:30] <Alexander_ALMA> hi sa6bss
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[20:43] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah sunday evening :)
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[21:15] <mattbrejza> the worst of all eveings
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[21:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=SP1
[21:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hb-01_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=hb-01_chase
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[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hb-01_chase after 0321 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=hb-01_chase
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[21:31] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest71384
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[21:42] <mheld> why would I get 38.0000000, -97.000000 as a valid GPS fix?
[21:43] <mheld> oh hmm
[21:43] <mheld> it's a weird celllocate thing
[21:43] <lz1dev> looks valid
[21:43] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[21:43] <mheld> it's highly unlikely
[21:44] <lz1dev> how so?
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> mheld: by being somewhere in america?
[21:44] <mheld> that many 0s
[21:44] <mheld> it's unnatural
[21:44] <lz1dev> not really
[21:45] <lz1dev> its perfectly valid
[21:45] <lz1dev> infact aprs has an option to provide ambiguise position
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> Kansas as it turns out
[21:45] <lz1dev> and you can get 0000
[21:45] <lz1dev> ambiguous
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[21:45] <lz1dev> is the word i guess
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[21:54] <mfa298> that many decimal places might indicate a lack of undertanding of how accurate a gps position could be (unless you think the gps can manage around 10cm accuracy)
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[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Some can.
[21:56] <mfa298> but unlikely in this scenario.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Inded
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[22:04] <lz1dev> they indicite a likely tranculated or inaccuracte position
[22:05] <lz1dev> such as one fro geoip, wifi based, or cell tower based
[22:05] <lz1dev> it should provide the resolution somewhere somehow
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes you can get spectacularly inaccurate positions, when all your phone thinks it knows is the country it's in
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Actually - that makes sense
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> it's a pretty good 'middle of the USA' position
[22:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> nite all
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[22:08] <lz1dev> 1 degree is pretty terrible resolution for position
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Depends how lost you are
[22:10] <lz1dev> i dunno, if you are lost NSWE is probably all you need
[22:11] <lz1dev> if you roughly know where about in the world you are
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[22:21] <Maxell> lz1dev: 1 degree fix is suffcient for choosing a download mirror
[22:21] <Maxell> like, US or EU
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[00:00] --- Mon Sep 22 2014