highaltitude.log.20140909

[00:03] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[00:04] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:05] Ian__ (522f6d88@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.47.109.136) left #highaltitude.
[00:05] Ian__ (522f6d88@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.47.109.136) joined #highaltitude.
[00:08] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p5DD146B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[00:11] DL7AD (~quassel@p5DD1579C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[00:36] chimpusmaximus (~chimpusma@host31-48-185-47.range31-48.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[01:01] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[01:01] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[01:08] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-39-63.49-151.net24.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[01:15] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p5DD146B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[01:19] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[01:20] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:43] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[01:43] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[01:47] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[01:48] lbm (~lbm@mufasa.lbm.dk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[01:48] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[01:49] lbm (~lbm@mufasa.lbm.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[01:52] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:59] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[02:11] SHARP-SATS (~chatzilla@S01065cd9985cb7cd.wp.shawcable.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:18] SHARP-SATS (~chatzilla@S01065cd9985cb7cd.wp.shawcable.net) left irc: Quit: Bye
[02:20] mrtux_ (mrtux@unaffiliated/mrtux) left irc: Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
[02:44] keropok (~keropok@elmu.phglib.gov.my) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[02:45] keropok (~keropok@149.255.97.250) joined #highaltitude.
[02:49] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[02:50] LA5VNA (~n11618@84.48.126.250) joined #highaltitude.
[02:55] rg7kl (c331c855@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.49.200.85) joined #highaltitude.
[03:25] CapnKernel (~mjd@204.37.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) joined #highaltitude.
[03:26] CapnKernel (mjd@204.37.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) left #highaltitude.
[03:31] HeliosFA_Ayl (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) joined #highaltitude.
[03:31] gonzo__ (~gonzo_@host-92-6-244-156.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[03:33] beaware2 (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[03:36] Chetic_ (~chetic@c83-250-68-35.bredband.comhem.se) joined #highaltitude.
[03:38] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-105-34.static.vivaciti.org) got netsplit.
[03:39] jaymzx_away (~jaymzx@192.210.149.170) joined #highaltitude.
[03:40] gonzo_ (~gonzo_@host-92-6-244-156.as43234.net) got netsplit.
[03:40] Chetic (~chetic@c83-250-68-35.bredband.comhem.se) got netsplit.
[03:40] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) got netsplit.
[03:40] M0NSA_A (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) got netsplit.
[03:40] tripleclones (~tripleclo@unaffiliated/tripleclones) got netsplit.
[03:40] fsphil (fsphil@ursa.sanslogic.co.uk) got netsplit.
[03:40] jaymzxz (~jaymzx@192.210.149.170) got netsplit.
[03:40] jevin (~jevin@72.12.217.220) got netsplit.
[03:41] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[03:42] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:42] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-105-34.static.vivaciti.org) returned to #highaltitude.
[03:45] skagmo__ (skagmo@cassarossa.samfundet.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[03:45] fsphil (fsphil@ursa.sanslogic.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[03:45] tripleclones (~tripleclo@2001:ba8:1f1:f273::2) joined #highaltitude.
[03:46] tripleclones (~tripleclo@2001:ba8:1f1:f273::2) left irc: Changing host
[03:46] tripleclones (~tripleclo@unaffiliated/tripleclones) joined #highaltitude.
[03:47] skagmo (skagmo@cassarossa.samfundet.no) joined #highaltitude.
[03:47] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[03:51] Chetic (~chetic@c83-250-68-35.bredband.comhem.se) got lost in the net-split.
[03:51] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) got lost in the net-split.
[03:51] M0NSA_A (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) got lost in the net-split.
[03:51] jaymzxz (~jaymzx@192.210.149.170) got lost in the net-split.
[03:51] jevin (~jevin@72.12.217.220) got lost in the net-split.
[03:51] gonzo_ (~gonzo_@host-92-6-244-156.as43234.net) got lost in the net-split.
[03:55] skagmo (skagmo@cassarossa.samfundet.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[03:56] skagmo (skagmo@cassarossa.samfundet.no) joined #highaltitude.
[04:09] Bob_Saget (~root@cpe-174-109-081-164.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[04:12] LA5VNA (~n11618@84.48.126.250) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[04:13] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:18] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[04:18] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:21] <zzqa> kf7fer: You said 3.3v was better than 5v for the sa818 modules, was that because of power usage or something else? Have you tried running them at 4.2v like the data sheet says is "typical"?
[04:29] meatmanek (~meatmanek@72-18-233-188.static-ip.telepacific.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[04:35] lbm (~lbm@mufasa.lbm.dk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[04:35] lbm (~lbm@mufasa.lbm.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[04:35] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[04:35] murb (~murb@An.der.schoenen.blauen.danu.be) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[04:36] murb (~murb@An.der.schoenen.blauen.danu.be) joined #highaltitude.
[04:37] fergusnoble (fergusnobl@repl.esden.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:38] tweetBot1 (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[04:38] tweetBot (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[04:40] tweetBot (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[04:41] tweetBot (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[04:43] meatmanek (~meatmanek@72-18-233-188.static-ip.telepacific.net) joined #highaltitude.
[04:50] es5nhc (~tarmo@217.71.40.108) joined #highaltitude.
[05:22] zzqa (~A@c-76-27-48-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[05:23] zzqa (~A@c-76-27-48-44.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:43] RocketBoy (~steverand@05438c28.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[05:43] RocketBoy (~steverand@05438c28.skybroadband.com) left irc: Client Quit
[05:44] <kf7fer> zzqa: I prefer 3.3v because everything else runs at that voltage; no other reason
[05:45] <kf7fer> I did my initial tests at 5v though
[05:49] <zzqa> any difference in tx power?
[05:50] <zzqa> all of the stuff I have in mind isn't power limited
[05:50] <zzqa> not involved much with my .edu's HAB program anymore
[05:59] Brian-G0HDI (561fb689@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.31.182.137) joined #highaltitude.
[06:07] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-39-63.49-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude.
[06:17] <Upu> good morning Poland
[06:17] <Upu> and Slovakia
[06:22] <Rebounder> hello :)
[06:22] Nick change: Chetic_ -> Chetic
[06:24] blah (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[06:26] beaware2 (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[06:28] <Upu> looks like it flew over that storm unperturbed
[06:36] HeathrowT5 (~yaaic@134.146.0.4) joined #highaltitude.
[06:39] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[06:39] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) joined #highaltitude.
[06:40] Nick change: HeathrowT5 -> EwanP
[06:46] LeoBodnar (0264ca68@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.100.202.104) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[07:11] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-39-63.49-151.net24.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[07:14] Brian-G0HDI (561fb689@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.31.182.137) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:20] iamdanw (uid459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcaqifqdotpubgpc) joined #highaltitude.
[07:20] solitude (5b67194a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.103.25.74) joined #highaltitude.
[07:21] <solitude> Hi guys, Im trying to find out if the helium Ive used in my first flight was bad quality and that is what caused bursting at lower altitude, or if it was rather me weighing the neck lift improperly.
[07:22] <solitude> 90 ATM of helium was used. I know you guys need Litres to give an answer, but I hoped you could guess if it is way overfilled by knowing the atm alone
[07:22] <solitude> Pawan 600 balloon
[07:23] <solitude> *"balloon gas", not "helium"
[07:23] <daveake> what was the ascent rate?
[07:24] malclocke (~malc@121-99-87-117.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) joined #highaltitude.
[07:24] <solitude> how can I know the real ascent rate?
[07:24] <daveake> time and altitude
[07:25] <solitude> I dont know the altitude
[07:25] <daveake> Do you have that data?
[07:25] <daveake> OK you're stuffed then
[07:25] <solitude> I have video
[07:26] <daveake> No use
[07:26] <daveake> Did you measure the neck lift?
[07:26] <solitude> Yes.
[07:26] <solitude> 1509 grams
[07:26] <solitude> Felt right
[07:27] <daveake> Hard to tell, but could be too much gas or very impure gas or just a poor or damaged balloon
[07:28] <solitude> In the video I can see when it bursts. it burts just 5 minutes earlier as the predictor on this site guessed.
[07:28] <solitude> However, it clearly bursted at much lower altitude, just slightly above clouds
[07:29] <daveake> How long after launch?
[07:29] <solitude> And it travelled longer along its path than expected by 28 km
[07:29] <solitude> 83 minutes, I think the calculator here said 88 minutes.
[07:30] <solitude> But again, the low altitude is clear
[07:30] <solitude> ly noticeable
[07:30] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[07:30] <daveake> expected burst alt? payload weight?
[07:32] <solitude> According to pawan the b urst altitude is 28000 meters, but I could clearly see fluffy clouds slightly below the payload before burst and the sky was dark blue, not black
[07:32] LeoBodnar (6d9d54f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.157.84.246) joined #highaltitude.
[07:33] <solitude> ayload weight: 550 grams
[07:33] <daveake> " According to pawan the b urst altitude is 28000 meters"
[07:33] <daveake> Not useful information. Depends on lots of things.
[07:34] <solitude> The company who made those balloons. How else can I know that?
[07:34] pd7r (d57f9c72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.127.156.114) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[07:34] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-39-63.49-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude.
[07:34] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[07:34] <daveake> burst calculator
[07:34] <daveake> The burst alt varies with fill
[07:35] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:35] <solitude> fill?
[07:35] <daveake> gas
[07:36] <solitude> you mean how much is filled, or type of gas?
[07:36] <daveake> any of those
[07:36] <solitude> but you're asking me the expected burst altitude, how can I know that?
[07:37] <daveake> <daveake> burst calculator
[07:37] <daveake> Which is what I said when you asked the same question 5 mins ago
[07:37] <solitude> http://habhub.org/calc/ ?
[07:37] <daveake> YES
[07:38] <solitude> But then I need to input the ascent rate, which I can only know if I... input the burst altitude
[07:38] <solitude> ?
[07:38] <daveake> No you can type in the ascent rate
[07:38] <daveake> Anyway, your figures look about right and from what you say it should have gone higher. If the gas was impure then it would burst lower, so that is a possibility.
[07:39] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-39-63.49-151.net24.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[07:39] <solitude> daveake, I mean I cant type (know) the ascent rate
[07:39] <daveake> However in that case it should have burst earlier in time, which it didn't
[07:39] <solitude> only way with that calculator is if I input the burst altitude
[07:39] fox123 (4d68d2ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.104.210.239) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:43] <solitude> I hope I'm able to explain what I mean. You're asking the ascent rate, right? The only easy way is to use the calc right? The calc needs the burst altitude to tell the ascent rate, right? So if the 28000 m from Pawan isnt reliable and I need the burst calc to find out, how can I, if I need to input the ascent rate which I cant know without knowing the burst altitude
[07:45] <SpeedEvil> not quite
[07:45] <solitude> ok, what am I missing?
[07:45] <SpeedEvil> The published burst diameter is quite accurate for working out ascent rate
[07:45] <SpeedEvil> the fact it doesn't in fact burst at that diameter is largely irrelevant for the ascent rate
[07:46] <mfa298> by trial and error inputted ascent rate give a neck lift of 1502 (which calculates ascent rate at 5.15 and burst at 28229)
[07:46] <mfa298> but the calc is only as good as the values you put in - how did you measure neck lift and payload weight
[07:47] <solitude> payload weight witha gram scale. everything + some part of the filler and tube which will rise
[07:48] <solitude> oops, sorry, i mean...
[07:49] <solitude> I measured the payload weight with a gram scale. I weighed the neck lift with a bottle of water weighing the neck lift - the part of the filler which is risen from ground
[07:49] <kf7fer> zzqa: Yes. I'm pretty sure the 500mW/1W power levels are at 5v only. I haven't tested the output power but know that the board was drawing about 300mA transmitting at 3.3v (which is below the 450mA listed in the docs) so I assume the output power is reduced as well
[07:50] <solitude> So you guys are saying using the published burst altitude isnt very accurate and I should use the "Constants (Advanced)" of the calc instead?
[07:51] <solitude> is that what you did, mfa298?
[07:52] RocketBoy (~steverand@05438c28.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:52] RocketBoy (~steverand@05438c28.skybroadband.com) left irc: Client Quit
[07:52] <solitude> The calc tells me what the neck lift is if I input a burst altitude or ascent rate
[07:53] <mfa298> the burst point of the balloon is based on how much the latex stretchs. It doesn't know how high it is to decide on whether to burst
[07:53] <mfa298> if you're looking at the manufacturer info the better thing to look at is burst diameter
[07:53] <solitude> OK then
[07:54] <solitude> But I dont think not using the advanced options of the calc would give me a 12 km difference in burst altitude right?
[07:55] <mfa298> so as I think daveake said earlier the burst altitude in the manufactures docs is pretty meaningless (I think it'll be based on a volume of gas being put into the balloon and ignoring the payload weight and ascent speed which you will care about if you want to recover it)
[07:56] <mfa298> I didn't use any of the advanced options on the calc , just ballon type, payload weight and played with the vales yo get the neck lift value you gave
[07:56] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[07:56] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[07:56] <solitude> I got the neck lift value from the calc itself by inputting the burst altitude
[07:58] <solitude> i think im starting to get it
[07:58] <mfa298> how accurately you filled the balloon, how accurately you measured the payload weight and neck lift and and the quality of gas could change how high it got
[07:59] <daveake> No one error would do what you saw (slow ascent rate and early burst) so it's a combination
[07:59] <mfa298> anything that stopped you accuratly checking the neck lift (wind at the launch site) can also impact it.
[08:00] <solitude> I think I made a really stupid mistake in thinking burst altitude from the manufacturer is constant regardless of payload weight
[08:01] <solitude> so by chance it bursted almost at the same time as predicted though, that made me think of other causes for a while
[08:02] <mfa298> when you measured payload weight did you include the parachute, cord etc as well (everything that went up except the baloon)
[08:02] <solitude> yes
[08:02] mikestir (~quassel@2001:470:1f09:1c2b:c158:94c5:6c38:c43e) joined #highaltitude.
[08:02] <solitude> but looks like burst altitude depends on payload weight and I didnt know that
[08:03] <solitude> assumed just the ascent rate changes
[08:03] <solitude> but obviously more weight needs more volume of gas so less room to stretch...
[08:04] <daveake> yeah you can learn a lot just by playing with that calculator
[08:04] <daveake> What's tricky is to figure out after the flight what went wrong
[08:04] <daveake> GPS data would really help
[08:05] <mfa298> if you put in the same volume of gas regardless of payload weight then it probably will burst at the same point and the ascent rate will vary, but you risk it not bursting (low ascent rate), going a long way, or not going up at all (payload too heavy for that volume of gas)
[08:06] Prometheas (~marios@147.Red-79-153-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:06] <solitude> I'm a little ill right now and can;t think clearly. So burst altitude doesnt depend on payload weight, it just changes the ascent rate?
[08:07] <solitude> (but if the ascent rate is too slow, you get problems)
[08:07] <solitude> right?
[08:07] <mfa298> Generally people that want to get their payload back so aim for around 5m/s ascent rate (and check predictions to see if that looks reasonable)
[08:08] <daveake> burst altitude, for a particular balloon, only depends on how much gas it has in it
[08:08] <solitude> OK
[08:09] <solitude> sorry guys, I'm a bit ill and had a brain fart
[08:10] <solitude> did we have a data sheet for Pawan in the wiki?
[08:10] <mfa298> how fast the balloon goes up is based on the ratio of lifting power (amount of gas) and payload weight. If that ratio is too low the baloon may not burst when you expect.
[08:11] <solitude> really does seem it was impure helium. The balloon after filling could lift 1509 grams (the neck lift for 5.15 m/s ascent rate)
[08:12] <solitude> So I filled with more gas, less room to expand, so bursted at lower altitude
[08:12] <mfa298> so that's why most people aim for 5m/s and fill based on what the calc gives for that - in your case it looks like your payload weight was about right for that balloon + altitude and 5 m/s
[08:13] <solitude> But if the burst altitude from the manufacturer is inaccurate, I can use the advanced options and input the burst diameter instead to find out the neck lift
[08:13] <solitude> if you guys think that would make such a differene
[08:14] <mfa298> we can only guess at things due to the limited data (next time you want want something that tracks gps data for the whole flight)
[08:14] <solitude> what is strange is it didnt bursted sooner than expected (well, 5 minutes) and it landed almost where predicted
[08:15] <solitude> maybe just got lucky
[08:16] <mfa298> impure helium would give a lower burst altitude if you filled based on neck lift, but the flight time would also be reduced (if it did 5m/s then you could probably work out the altitude it got to based on flight time)
[08:16] <mfa298> although the accuracy of that won't be particularly brilliant
[08:17] G8JNJ (5bd45e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.94.10) joined #highaltitude.
[08:18] <G8JNJ> !flights
[08:18] <SpacenearUS> 03G8JNJ: Current flights: 03VX-20 434.200/144.250 MHz 10(5d26), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b)
[08:19] <solitude> thats whats weird, the calc says it would take 88 minutes with my payload to reach 28000 m, and it took 83. But it barely went over clouds
[08:21] <solitude> the launch altitude might have an effect but the calc doesnt ask for it. it was 1000 m
[08:23] <daveake> Like I said, it's more than one thing
[08:24] <solitude> but youre saying I should use burst diameter instead of burst altitude for the calc?
[08:26] <daveake> Burst altitude depends on lots of things; burst diameter just depends on the balloon.
[08:27] <daveake> Start again. It burst too low. So it had too much gas in OR it was a bad balloon.
[08:27] <daveake> Second, it went up slowly. So it had too little lift.
[08:27] <daveake> That means neck lift was measure wrongly or the payload weight was higher than you thought.
[08:28] <daveake> So there's no point looking for a single error because there's more than one.
[08:28] noel (~nloughran@gateway.ash.thebunker.net) joined #highaltitude.
[08:28] Nick change: noel -> Guest40781
[08:29] <daveake> I could guess that it's a cmobination of a bad balloon (soo burst at too small a diameter) and too little neck lift, but it's only a guess
[08:30] G8JNJ (5bd45e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.94.10) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[08:30] <solitude> *and maybe bad gas, right?
[08:31] <daveake> That would reduce the burst altitude and (a bit slow down the ascent), so it's possible, but we can't tell
[08:31] <daveake> It cannot on its own explain the flight
[08:32] <solitude> sure
[08:32] <gonzo__> bad gas in unlikley if it came from a proper supplier
[08:32] <solitude> no proper supplier here
[08:33] <solitude> okay, Ill try to make all right next time
[08:33] <solitude> and go with hydrogen froma proper supplier
[08:34] <solitude> again, do we have data sheets for Pawan, etc on the wiki?
[08:35] <gonzo__> (note that what is sold as 'balloon gas' commonly has about 10% air, it's not pure He)
[08:35] <mfa298> the calc on habhub knows about the various burst diameters and various gases (that might need the advanced options)
[08:36] <mfa298> then decide what variables you want to fix (i.e. if you want to get to a particular altitude choose a balloon that can do that at around 5m/s for your total payload weight.
[08:37] <solitude> mfa298, according to the calc, if I input the payload weight, balloon type and the burst altitude, it can
[08:37] <solitude> gonzo__ I think the one I got had even more air mixed....
[08:37] <mfa298> if it's important to get to a particular altitude you may want to aim for higher than that so there's some scope for things bursting earlier than planned
[08:38] <solitude> My aim is to go above 26000m
[08:38] chimpusmaximus (1f30b92f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.48.185.47) joined #highaltitude.
[08:39] <solitude> or at least the point when the sky is very dark (15-17 km?)
[08:39] <daveake> 20-ish
[08:39] <mfa298> you *may* want to put in some of the variables and then changing things to get the result you want. So say the total payload is 1KG and you want to get to 26kmm. Stick 28km in (go for a bit higher than you want) and the payload weight. Then change the balloon selection until you get around 5m/s ascent rate
[08:40] <solitude> thats what I did
[08:41] LeoBodnar (6d9d54f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.157.84.246) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:41] <mfa298> so in that example probably a pawan 750
[08:41] arjunn (51984619@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.152.70.25) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:42] <mfa298> and have something that collects gps data at regular intervals (and ideally transmits them over a radio link to you) so you can find out what the actual ascent rate and burst point are so there's some useful data when it goes wrong.
[08:42] <solitude> pawan 600 seems fine according to the calc
[08:42] <solitude> this is how high it got" http://i.imgur.com/LADXJ3k.png
[08:42] <solitude> looks like 17 km max. opinions?
[08:43] <fsphil> looks like Titan
[08:44] <solitude> a what?
[08:44] <mfa298> that looks like it might be a bit over exposed
[08:44] <fsphil> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Titan-Complex_%27Anti-greenhouse%27.jpg
[08:44] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) joined #highaltitude.
[08:45] yo3fvr_ (d9c2226f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.194.34.111) joined #highaltitude.
[08:45] <fsphil> it's impossible to tell from that
[08:45] <solitude> over exposed? You mean a camera settings thing?
[08:45] yo3fvr_ (d9c2226f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.194.34.111) left irc: Client Quit
[08:45] Steve_G0TDJ (d49f4aee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.159.74.238) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:46] <fsphil> was the sun setting?
[08:46] <solitude> uh, yes?
[08:46] chimpusmaximus (1f30b92f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.48.185.47) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:46] <fsphil> nice colours
[08:47] <mfa298> over exposed means it collected more light than it needed to to get an image (so can lose some detail and things can be brighter than they should be)
[08:47] <mfa298> which looking at the earth part it looks like it could be a bit over exposed
[08:47] <solitude> it was a Gopo3. Doesnt everyone use default settings on it?
[08:48] lilafisch (~lilafisch@irc.xtort.eu) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:48] <solitude> *gopro
[08:49] lilafisch (~lilafisch@irc.xtort.eu) joined #highaltitude.
[08:51] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[08:52] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) joined #highaltitude.
[08:53] <gonzo__> I didn't reaqlise the sun had settings? How do you adjust them?
[08:54] <solitude> Im asking if anyone's using a GoPro here, do you change the ISO, etc for recording hab flights with strong open sun?
[08:55] <solitude> http://i.imgur.com/siZMrMf.png
[08:56] <daveake> Th sun is bright
[08:56] Lunar_LanderU (~gd-winzen@131.173.11.189) joined #highaltitude.
[08:56] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[08:57] <mfa298> gonzo__: I believe there are two settings, UK and Rest of World and it's set based on your latitude and longitude.
[08:58] LeoBodnar (6d9d54f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.157.84.246) joined #highaltitude.
[08:58] <mfa298> The UK setting means the Sun will generally be hidden behind a cloud layer except for a few days leading up to bank holidays when it will make a brief apperance
[08:58] <murb> followed by thunderstorms.
[08:59] <solitude> daveake, you mean I should change my camera settings?
[08:59] <daveake> eh? No. I just said that the sun is bright. Not a lot you can do about that. If the camera is looking right at the sun then it's not going to be able to cope.
[09:01] <solitude> well it did turn facing back at times and the sky was still blue
[09:02] <fsphil> caribbean blue
[09:04] chimpusmaximus (1f30b92f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.48.185.47) joined #highaltitude.
[09:05] <solitude> http://i.imgur.com/1ZKtGWX.png
[09:08] <solitude> so anyone using a GoPro here?
[09:10] <chimpusmaximus> We used a mobius at weekend. very happy for the price point.
[09:11] <Lunar_LanderU> chimpusmaximus, nice, how did you mount the cam?
[09:11] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. was it in an extra box or with the GPS tracker and so on?
[09:12] <solitude> OK. Did you change settings of the camera?
[09:12] <daveake> Nobody ever changes the GoPro settings.
[09:12] <daveake> (slight exaggeration)
[09:13] <solitude> So didnt I. Which means I dont think the camera just added some brightness to the video and the sky was actually black
[09:16] <chimpusmaximus> The mobius was in same payload as the pi the sky board we used. We powered everything including camera from 9AA's. The mobius gives off a fair bit of heat which kept everything snug.
[09:16] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[09:16] malclocke (~malc@121-99-87-117.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[09:17] <chimpusmaximus> it was mounted in the bottom part of the paload with the len part exposed. With the mobius you can get get cables to mount the camera lens part away from the base.
[09:17] <Lunar_LanderU> chimpusmaximus, thanks for the info
[09:17] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) joined #highaltitude.
[09:18] <Lunar_LanderU> we had several discussions here about the mobius and the 808 cameras and their GPS jamming possibility
[09:18] solitude (5b67194a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.103.25.74) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[09:19] <chimpusmaximus> the gps was some distance way in ous.
[09:20] <yo3fvr> hello all!
[09:21] <yo3fvr> I'm new here and I would like to know on which frequency you chase the HABs...
[09:21] <yo3fvr> APRS?
[09:21] <yo3fvr> 144800?
[09:22] <Rebounder> yo3fvr: aprs depends a little on the region
[09:22] <chimpusmaximus> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChrisLee79/posts/Uboc2ykrJap?pid=6056996245458703586&oid=117789082000619135339 shoudl be payload photo with mobius at bottom and gps aerial mounted inside but at the top of payload
[09:23] <yo3fvr> correct. ! for europe remain 144800, OK?
[09:23] <Rebounder> chimpusmaximus: the thing sticking out to the right?
[09:24] <craag_philcrump> yo3fvr: Not all HABs transmit aprs, some transmit in the 434 MHz band
[09:24] <craag_philcrump> The mailing list is the easiest way to find out.
[09:24] <craag_philcrump> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[09:25] <yo3fvr> OK, great, I will check there
[09:25] <craag_philcrump> or ask here when you see one near you :)
[09:26] <yo3fvr> for example, vx-20 approach from YO
[09:27] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks chimpusmaximus
[09:27] <craag_philcrump> !dial VX-20
[09:27] <SpacenearUS> 03craag_philcrump: Payload 03vx-20 10(5d26) 03$$VX-20 - 03SP9UOB DominoEX payload - 03144.25 MHz USB 03DominoEX with speed 0316
[09:27] <craag_philcrump> yo3fvr: ^^
[09:27] <yo3fvr> great, TNX
[09:28] <yo3fvr> nice feature :-)
[09:32] <craag_philcrump> beckstem descending :(
[09:33] <Upu> yup thats coming down
[09:33] <chimpusmaximus> Rebounder: yes
[09:34] <craag_philcrump> what's the battery on it Upu ?
[09:35] <Upu> at least 70 hours
[09:35] <Upu> voltage has hardly dropped
[09:35] <craag_philcrump> I mean is it a standard hab AA?
[09:35] <Upu> yeah
[09:36] <Upu> oh sorry
[09:36] <Upu> Energizer Lithium
[09:36] <craag_philcrump> yeah that's what I meant ;)
[09:36] <craag_philcrump> HAB AA ;)
[09:36] <Upu> :)
[09:36] <craag_philcrump> didn't notice them dropping quite so much voltage at night before
[09:37] <craag_philcrump> wondered if you had some solar assistance going on
[09:37] <Upu> not on this one
[09:38] <craag_philcrump> although 0.1V isn't a lot of voltage - just seems like it with how flat they otherwise are!
[09:38] amell (~amell@graveley.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/BECKSTEM_20140907/BECKSTEM_20109000939.jpg
[09:40] <chimpusmaximus> Maplins do Lithium but i would be very cautious. they are no cheaper and i have had some dead cells in the only pack i bought. .
[09:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ping maxmed
[09:51] <Maxell> :(
[09:55] Lunar_LanderU (~gd-winzen@131.173.11.189) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[09:57] SushiKenBrown_ (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:58] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.17) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[09:59] SushiKenBrown (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[09:59] Lunar_LanderU (~gd-winzen@131.173.11.189) joined #highaltitude.
[10:01] blah (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[10:02] <amell> Upu: any idea when the rf98W will arrive? before your holiday?
[10:06] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:4c5d:f153:636a:6bd6) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] cipherand (5b67194a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.103.25.74) joined #highaltitude.
[10:09] <cipherand> is there anything special about hydrogen tanks? Can I attach my same filler tube to it like I do with helium tanks and or do I need something extra in the middle?
[10:09] <daveake> You need a regulator
[10:09] <daveake> None of the fittings are the same
[10:09] <amell> regulator is a clean one
[10:10] <amell> do you smoke? I was surprised at the number of guys smoking at the hab launch on sunday.
[10:10] <amell> if it was a hydrogen launch, no way!
[10:11] <daveake> Obv Sunday wasn't H2
[10:11] <Upu> meant to be today amell
[10:11] <Upu> afk driving to work
[10:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO3FVR_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=YO3FVR_chase
[10:11] <cipherand> a regulator?
[10:12] <mattbrejza> you dont want 200bar into your balloon
[10:12] <mattbrejza> http://www.boconlineshop.com/shop/en/uk/Equipment-Accessories/Regulators/ryval-single-stage-two-gauge-regulator
[10:12] <cipherand> excuse my english, whats a "bar"?
[10:13] <mattbrejza> i think acetylene is fine?
[10:13] <amell> one atmosphere
[10:13] <mattbrejza> bar = 100kPa
[10:13] <amell> whats the point of two gauges?
[10:13] <cipherand> a bar as 'atm"?
[10:13] <mattbrejza> whats the point of life
[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Inlet & Outlet
[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ?
[10:14] <daveake> If the outlet guage moves up much, do something
[10:14] <amell> yes, but we dont care about outlet when filling a balloon
[10:14] <daveake> OH YES YOU DO
[10:14] <daveake> If it goes up you have a blockage
[10:15] <daveake> this is bad
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> for HAB yes, in other circumsatnces maybe ;-)
[10:15] <amell> a blockage in the fill tube? right.
[10:15] <cipherand> what are we talking about?
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> someone standing on the fill hose
[10:15] <daveake> e.g. a fold in tube
[10:15] <amell> thats gonna give you a burst tube
[10:15] <cipherand> oh
[10:15] <daveake> No it isn't because you make sure the tub will withstand the pressure
[10:16] <cipherand> thats not exclusive to hydrogen tanks though right?
[10:16] <daveake> tube
[10:16] <mattbrejza> also what would be the point in boc making a separate one with no gauge for the few cases when you actually dont need it
[10:16] <daveake> indeed
[10:16] <daveake> single stage is fine - you don't need the 2-stage, but they ome with 2 gauges either way
[10:16] <amell> my MIG welder gas has two gauges, but from my pov i need the second one as i need to know what the gas delivery rate is.
[10:17] <cipherand> So I need it so my filler tube wont rupture from too much pressure?
[10:17] <cipherand> from too much gas flowing?
[10:17] <daveake> No
[10:17] <daveake> The pressure will hardly budge uinless there is a blockage
[10:18] <daveake> and if that happens, stop
[10:18] <cipherand> so I need to know if there's a bloackage in my filler tube?
[10:18] <daveake> there won't be unless you fold it
[10:18] <cipherand> but I need it for that?
[10:18] <daveake> Or someone tries to fill after the balloon is tied off
[10:20] <cipherand> do I need it for anything else other than tha?
[10:20] <daveake> Isn't that enough? :p. Doesn't matter - you get it anyway
[10:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Its not so much the pressure meters its the regulator to drop the pressure down.
[10:20] <cipherand> OK then,
[10:21] <daveake> Yes, in case that wasn't clear, you NEED the regulator
[10:21] <daveake> No ifs buts or maybes
[10:21] <cipherand> for that reason only?
[10:21] <daveake> "only"??
[10:22] <amell> oh, you have to have a regulator.
[10:22] <daveake> You want 2000psi of gas coming out without anything to limit the pressure ?
[10:22] <amell> the discussion was about the second gauge only. regulator is compulsory.
[10:22] <daveake> + 1000
[10:22] <fsphil> more commonly called an explosion
[10:22] <fsphil> though it could become a rocket
[10:23] <amell> you could crack the valve&
[10:23] Action: daveake runs
[10:23] <amell> but in the case of hydrogen this is a bad idea.
[10:23] <amell> very bad idea
[10:23] <fsphil> I read that as "track the valve"
[10:23] <cipherand> not the case with helium tank?
[10:23] DL7AD (~quassel@p5DD146B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[10:23] <daveake> cipherand I strongly suggest you read a) the wiki article on this, and b) the safety sheet for hydrogen from your supplier or BOC
[10:24] <fsphil> I use a regulator on my helium tanks too
[10:24] <fsphil> it's just not worth the risk
[10:24] <daveake> indeed
[10:24] <amell> only an idiot would crack valve on hydrogen tank.
[10:24] <cipherand> Never used a regulator on a helium tank. Nor anyone Ive seen filling...
[10:24] <fsphil> I know it won't ignite, but it's a huge pressure in there
[10:24] <daveake> cipherand, Oh yes you did
[10:25] <cipherand> hm?
[10:25] <MLow> when i was into paintball, we filled out gun tanks from K size tanks of co2 at full pressure, if one of the fittings slips 30 psi even is enough to cause hearing damage if released quickly
[10:25] <daveake> Some have it built in, or it;'s in the valve
[10:25] <daveake> You don't usually have a gauge
[10:25] <cipherand> oh
[10:25] <amell> if you dont have a reg on he tank you will just waste a hell of a lot of gas as it releases uncontrolled.
[10:25] <daveake> H2 is different. You *must* use a regulator.
[10:26] <daveake> Not doing so has some bad consequences.
[10:26] <daveake> Explosion. Fire. That kind of thing.
[10:26] <amell> like crispy ciperand
[10:26] <cipherand> But for some reason not all hydrogen tanks have one built in?
[10:27] <amell> I;d be surpised if it came with one
[10:27] <cipherand> why?
[10:28] <MLow> equiptment that you connect a K size tank to is most likely industrial and has things like guages valves and regulators on them
[10:28] <daveake> Because they're supposed to be used by people who have a regulator and know what they're doing
[10:28] <daveake> Unlike helium which is used by any Joe with a party
[10:30] <cipherand> So, is the regulator universal or is it only for hydrogen?
[10:31] <MLow> some have reverse threads and funny stuff going on but ya i think they are pretty much universal
[10:31] <MLow> the gas/welding supply places know whats up and can hook you up
[10:32] <daveake> All flammable gases use left-hand threads; others all use right-handed
[10:32] <mattbrejza> for the record our first launch was filled without a regulator, although we took precautions http://gallery.apexhab.org/Apex-I/Launch_Day/Launch/Launch_021
[10:33] <MLow> sporty
[10:33] <amell> mattbrejza: is that H2?
[10:33] <daveake> Acetylene kit will fit a H2 cylinder. An acetylene reg will physically fit a H2 cylinder but might not be rated for the pressure (I don't know). I suggest using the correct H2 regulator. The hose can be a standard acetlylene hose though.
[10:33] <mattbrejza> look at the bottle colour
[10:33] <cipherand> I dont really see anything about regulators on the wiki page about hydrogen
[10:33] <amell> looks like He, but just checking
[10:33] Lunar_LanderU (~gd-winzen@131.173.11.189) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[10:34] <daveake> brown --> He
[10:34] <daveake> red --> H2
[10:34] <amell> is the bottle brown or red? I cant tell...
[10:34] <MLow> precautions? face shield + death grip?
[10:34] <daveake> shirt's red
[10:34] <daveake> Not wise that
[10:34] <cipherand> I still dont get how a regulator can damage the tank, wont the balloon just pop frok overfilling?
[10:35] <daveake> Red shirt usually means death
[10:35] <amell> lol
[10:35] <daveake> eh?
[10:35] <daveake> Who said damage the tank???
[10:35] <MLow> only if you beam down with the away crew
[10:35] <daveake> :)
[10:35] <amell> cipherand: the point of the regulator is to release gas from the tank in a controlled manner without any contaminants that might ignite.
[10:35] <fsphil> Captain Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Ricky. One isn't coming back :)
[10:36] <amell> Ensign Cipher isnt coming back if he persists in his plans.
[10:37] <fsphil> anything explosive has to be treated with care. don't take chances or risks
[10:38] <MLow> and methane come in a blue-ish tank btw
[10:38] cipherand (5b67194a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.103.25.74) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[10:39] <amell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH-mhZLuGRk
[10:39] <daveake> explosion quit ?
[10:40] <Maxell> wow he mad
[10:40] <Maxell> for you guys not letting him set himself on fire^Wexplosion
[10:40] <MLow> soapy bucket of water, copper tube with holes drilled in it submersed in bucket, slow flow of methane into tube = slowly rising tower of lighter than air bubbles
[10:41] <MLow> +flame = awesome times
[10:41] <amell> MLow, much easier to eat lots of baked beans and sit in filled bath.
[10:41] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:42] <Maxell> MLow: mythbusters did that right?
[10:42] <MLow> brb youtubing
[10:43] <Maxell> amell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXcug7RqPgs
[10:43] <MLow> exactly
[10:44] <MLow> lol no regulator
[10:44] <MLow> oh nvm they hooked a regulator up
[10:45] <amell> Maxell: interesting - not seen that one before
[10:45] <amell> strange how rigid the foam is
[10:46] <MLow> its lighter than air so it rises yes, but the 'stiction' keeps the bubbles together
[10:46] <Maxell> "not for the viewers" muhahahaahah >:)
[10:47] <fsphil> "you must do this" -- I'm sure he said that at the end
[11:05] cipher_ (2e823a43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.130.58.67) joined #highaltitude.
[11:06] <cipher_> we were talking about pressure regulators right?
[11:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> yup
[11:07] <cipher_> OK. Hope its named the same here. Weather balloons are called "zond" here.
[11:07] <daveake> yes, then you died
[11:07] <cipher_> *my internet died
[11:07] <cipher_> I havent died,yet
[11:08] <amell> thats good news
[11:08] <craag_philcrump> obviously haven't tried the H2 cylinder without a regulator yet then :P
[11:08] <cipher_> yeah
[11:09] <cipher_> Im using qwebirc, so the log was lost
[11:10] <cipher_> if its for pressure, doesnt that mean its for protecting the tank, filler and balloon from ruptiring/exploding?
[11:10] <craag_philcrump> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20140909
[11:10] <cipher_> oh
[11:10] <craag_philcrump> and your eardrums from the pressure wave
[11:11] <craag_philcrump> put simply: Not a good idea without one on a high pressure cylinder.
[11:11] <cipher_> the cylinder is 160 atm filled
[11:12] <craag_philcrump> That's high pressure.
[11:12] <mattbrejza> also while you can in theory get away with it with He, if you open a hydrogen bottle very slightly it can ignite on exit from the bottle
[11:14] <cipher_> I dont think finding a regulator will be difficult if its universal, even if the supplier wont have any
[11:15] <cipher_> mattbreza, what do you mean?
[11:15] <cipher_> (how will it ignite?)
[11:15] <daveake> All by itself
[11:16] <daveake> hydrogen + oxygen + a little bit of energy
[11:16] <cipher_> where will that energy come from?
[11:17] <mfa298> the friction in the valve
[11:17] <mattbrejza> the fuck-you particle in the hydrogen module
[11:17] <mattbrejza> *molecule
[11:17] <mattbrejza> also known to exist in gases such as florine
[11:18] cipher_ (2e823a43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.130.58.67) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr615.pdf
[11:23] cipher_ (2e823a43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.130.58.67) joined #highaltitude.
[11:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr615.pdf might be of interest
[11:23] <cipher_> and it died again...
[11:24] <cipher_> http://www.list.am/item/3142843 ?
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Oh never knew that before "Hydrogen on the other hand has a Joule-Thomson
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> inversion temperature of about 193 K (-80
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> °
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> C) [7], so compressed hydrogen at ambient
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> temperature will heat up on expansion to atmospheric pressure
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> "
[11:25] Brian-G0HDI (561fb689@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.31.182.137) joined #highaltitude.
[11:26] navrac_home (545c0e05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.92.14.5) joined #highaltitude.
[11:26] ljenkins (~ljenkins@2001:1948:212::a) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:27] ljenkins (~ljenkins@137.190.80.249) joined #highaltitude.
[11:28] <ABLomas> hello guys, i have pair questions... ;-)
[11:28] <ABLomas> was watching chan for some time, reading wiki
[11:28] <ABLomas> i want to go with my own balloon and payload, but with some limitations
[11:28] <ABLomas> would like to fit into 300g auw
[11:28] DL7AD (~quassel@p5DD146B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:28] <ABLomas> payload itself is 125g
[11:28] <ABLomas> so, 270g or so for balloon
[11:29] <ABLomas> i saw on wiki only low altitude for low-mass payload (5km or so)
[11:29] <ABLomas> it's some limitation i don't know? Small balloons can't go higher or what (i can reach 5km with my electric airplane, so 5km isn't much, would like to go 10km+ in future)
[11:29] cipher_ (2e823a43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.130.58.67) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:30] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) joined #highaltitude.
[11:30] <ABLomas> another question - what is typical payload/balloon(+wires and stuff, excluding parashutes and so on) mass distribution in high-altitude balloon? Can it be something like 2/1 ?
[11:30] <ABLomas> thanks
[11:31] <Rebounder> About the ofcom "results", why are they so tough on airborne stuff in .uk ?
[11:31] <mfa298> ABLomas: the height it reaches will depend on how much the balloon can stretch before it bursts. In general the 5-10km balloons are foil party balloons, latex balloons will get higher but it depends on balloon size, gas and payload weight
[11:31] <mfa298> best bet is to play around with the burst calc at habhub.org/calc
[11:32] <mfa298> depending on where in the world you are there's potentially different restrictions as to what can be launched and who you need to notify
[11:32] <ABLomas> yes
[11:32] <ABLomas> that's why i want to fit into 300g
[11:32] <ABLomas> ;-)
[11:32] <ABLomas> (AUW)
[11:32] <ABLomas> because over 300g => lots of papers and stuff
[11:32] <ABLomas> below 300g => easy mode
[11:33] beaware2 (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[11:34] <Rebounder> In the not so great HAB country of Sweden every payload under 4 kg is considered the smallest payload..
[11:34] <mfa298> Rebounder: my understanding and guessing is that's it's mostly the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) that don't like it. presumably because the don't want to test too much and the impact of things going bad could be bad (high population density and busy airspace)
[11:34] <mfa298> Rebounder: that's in relation to airborne radio.
[11:35] <Rebounder> mfa298: was mostly thinking about APRS, was not so clear..
[11:35] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:4c5d:f153:636a:6bd6) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[11:35] <ABLomas> mfa298: thanks for calc. If i understand it correctly, even 100g balloon (weight without helium) can lift almost 1kg, so i'm very safe with 180g payload
[11:35] <ABLomas> in other words, i can fit into 8/1 ratio or similar
[11:35] <ABLomas> that's more than enough
[11:36] <mfa298> Rebounder: the actual rule is no Amateur radio airborne (APRS and HAB are both small parts of that)
[11:36] <mfa298> ABLomas: it depends on how fast you want it to go up and how high (slow ascent rates can travel a long way and in some cases might not burst)
[11:37] <ABLomas> yes, i checked in calc
[11:37] <ABLomas> how much i should fill
[11:37] <Rebounder> mfa298: right.. but why no amateur.. but ism etc is ok?
[11:37] <ABLomas> great stuff
[11:37] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[11:37] <Rebounder> mfa298: they don't want to encurage experients?
[11:37] <mfa298> remember that the payload weight in the calc includes paracute, cord etc as well
[11:37] <ABLomas> a
[11:37] <ABLomas> hm
[11:37] <ABLomas> ok, need to recalculate a bit then
[11:38] <ABLomas> but it's light, -12g
[11:38] <ABLomas> (i do not use parashute)
[11:38] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) joined #highaltitude.
[11:39] <mfa298> Rebounder: I'd assume that ISM modules generally being off the shelf, hopefully designed by someone competant and being low power has somethinf to do with it (rather than someone using an exPMR 2m radio at 25W that has random emissions all over airband - I'd hope no one does that but they'll be someone that thinks it's a good idea)
[11:40] <ABLomas> ha, even found balloons mentioned here: http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[11:40] <ABLomas> maybe any other recommended shop?
[11:40] <ABLomas> (i'm not in UK)
[11:40] <Rebounder> mfa298: right, and not likely to change then...
[11:41] <mfa298> that's the shop normally recommended for UK and most of Europe (I think even some of the US guys might buy from him)
[11:41] <ABLomas> good
[11:41] <mfa298> Rebounder: we can hope but I suspect if any change happens it will be gradual and not part of the standard license
[11:42] <ABLomas> just to clarify - i enter target burst altitude, payload weight (all included except baloon), choose baloon and...
[11:42] <ABLomas> "Neck Lift" is my max payload at this altitude, right?
[11:42] <mfa298> ABLomas: the guy that runs it is often in this channel (RocketBoy), if you're making a GPS tracker there's also http://ava.upuaut.net/store/ which has gps and radio modules
[11:42] <ABLomas> i mean, if i need burst at this alt, i need to fill balloon with "Volume" field of gas
[11:43] <ABLomas> mfa298: no, i want to make autonomous (semi) glider. And i have electronics already, well, almost
[11:44] <mfa298> Neck lift is the lift when the balloon is just boyant (so won't go up or down) the payload weight will normally be much lower (you want the balloon to go up)
[11:44] napos (~na@151.150.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[11:44] napos (~na@151.150.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[11:44] <mfa298> !wiki neck lift
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: No results for your query
[11:45] <mfa298> !wiki necklift
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: No results for your query
[11:45] <daveake> !wiki balloon fill
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Wiki page 03balloon_filler (ideas) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:balloon_filler
[11:45] <daveake> nope
[11:45] <mfa298> look on the ukhas.org.uk wiki and you should find some guides for neck lift and filling the balloon
[11:45] Action: mfa298 slaps SpacenearUS
[11:45] <ABLomas> heh, thanks, OMW
[11:46] <ABLomas> as i said, my payload is 125g, so i'm safe if it shows 480g neck lift
[11:46] <mfa298> ABLomas: you might want to check your local legislation a lot of places don't like controlled gliders at high altitudes
[11:46] <ABLomas> 12g for cables and stuff, including some fixed mistakes and so on... Let's say 140g for entire payload except balloon
[11:46] <Rebounder> mfa298: as you said.. hopefully some change.. possibly with some extra reglations.. like power / weight or similar...
[11:47] <ABLomas> mfa298: yes, i did, let's do not talk about legal stuff. I did way before i entered this channel, as i said i reached over 5km with electric FPV airplane, etc
[11:47] <ABLomas> completely new with balloons, not so new with electronics/flying
[11:48] <mfa298> the 480g neck lift is the weight the balloon needs to be able to lift (usually measured with a bottle of water) to lift that weight (125g) at the specified ascent rate (usually around 5m/s) if you add more weight it won't go up as fast and if the rate is too low it may not burst.
[11:48] <mfa298> if you add more weight to the balloon to get a sensible ascent rate the neck lift will go up as well.
[11:49] <ABLomas> got it... So, calculator won't show how much payload i can lift to required altitude with bursting?
[11:49] <mfa298> filling by neck lift is much easier than volume of gas and will also get you the right ascent rate if the He isn't a pure mix
[11:49] <ABLomas> oh, and if burst is only problem - i can just use controlled servo lock
[11:50] <ABLomas> 10km altitude => lock opens => autopilot turns on => gg balloon
[11:52] <mfa298> but please make sure what you're wanting to do is legal. There's been enough crashed aircraft recently already and I don't want to see that a HAB has brought one down.
[11:54] <mfa298> ooooo talking of changes to airborne licensing: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/amateur-radio-licence/
[11:54] <mfa298> not that I've read it yet
[11:54] <ABLomas> mfa298: i really suggest to do not talk about this stuff. I'm not in UK, not in USA. I know local rules, actually i'm one of local "hobby-level" users manager, suggesting changes to local civilian authority and so on
[11:55] <ABLomas> i do not know if i need to talk about surrounding countries (but will ask) because balloons wander over several countries, but will ask about that too
[11:55] <ABLomas> so, on topic ;-)
[11:56] <fsphil> mfa298: the only mention of airborne doesn't help us
[11:56] <fsphil> it's only cleaning up the language a bit
[11:56] <mfa298> ABLomas: as long as you've looked at it and know for certain its legal in Lithuania (I'm assuming that's where you're doing it) then I'm happy. I just know that that sort of thing is highly restricted in most places.
[11:56] <fsphil> maybe we'll be lucky and they'll introduce a loophole :)
[11:58] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-105-34.static.vivaciti.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[11:59] g0hww (~g0hww@46-18-105-34.static.vivaciti.org) joined #highaltitude.
[12:01] es5nhc (~tarmo@217.71.40.108) got netsplit.
[12:03] <mfa298> I shall have to read properly later but I wonder if it might be worth some additional comments from the community along the lines that we realise that colsulting on certain changes (including airborne use) is larger than the scope that this consultation allows as there is a large interest in this would ofcom comit to a later consultation on this and other larger changes and provide an indication for when this could happen)
[12:05] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.static.internet.emt.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[12:22] Bob_Saget (~root@cpe-174-109-081-164.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:25] <Bob_Saget> Hi Upu, I was wondering if you might be able to help me build one of those beautiful looking pAVAs?
[12:25] <Bob_Saget> Do you share the PCB design at all?
[12:25] <UpuWork> Hi Bob no I've not open sourced that one
[12:25] <UpuWork> they are quite tricky to make
[12:26] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[12:26] <Bob_Saget> Ohh ok, can you suggest one that a newbie might should start out with?
[12:26] <Bob_Saget> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=675
[12:26] <Bob_Saget> that one looked very nice
[12:27] malgar (~malgar@to-18-83-38.service.infuturo.it) joined #highaltitude.
[12:27] <UpuWork> have you made a tracker before ?
[12:27] SushiKenBrown_ (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Write error: Broken pipe
[12:27] wrea (~quassel@192.210.219.229) left irc: Write error: Broken pipe
[12:28] <Bob_Saget> sorta, it was just a pro mini attached to a used irdium 9602 i got off flea bay
[12:28] wrea (~quassel@192.210.219.229) joined #highaltitude.
[12:28] <Bob_Saget> nothing like building from scratch like this!
[12:28] <Bob_Saget> but I have a friend who has done this who is willing to help
[12:29] <UpuWork> Well all that is a very small "Arduino" with a GPS module on it
[12:29] <Bob_Saget> right
[12:29] <Bob_Saget> it worked very well, but expensive and heavy
[12:29] <mattbrejza> the orginal designers of the AVR architecture must be sad every time someone referes to their work as an 'arduino'
[12:29] <UpuWork> I know
[12:29] <daveake> :)
[12:29] <UpuWork> I'm sorry
[12:29] <UpuWork> shoot me
[12:29] <UpuWork> what you need to do
[12:30] <UpuWork> is make your own AVR based tracker
[12:30] <UpuWork> you can use a popular open sourced hobby enviroment to program it
[12:30] <UpuWork> then start making it smaller
[12:30] <UpuWork> use step ups to run from single cells
[12:30] <UpuWork> reduce it to slower speeds
[12:30] <UpuWork> use smaller AVR's
[12:30] <UpuWork> one step at a time
[12:31] <UpuWork> there is a reason its called pAVA 9
[12:31] SushiKenBrown (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:31] <UpuWork> the main reason is I can't count and its actually about revision 21
[12:32] <chimpusmaximus> :-)
[12:35] <Bob_Saget> so your saying I should start with another pro mini and maybe a NTX2 and a MAX7?
[12:35] <fsphil> pava 9.35alpha4
[12:35] <fsphil> mk2
[12:35] <fsphil> good way to start is just make a basic pcb
[12:36] <fsphil> all in one board rather than using arduinos
[12:36] <mfa298> mattbrejza: the annoying thing is that every one knows what arduino is but if you talk about an AVR / ATMega they look at you blankly
[12:37] <mfa298> although I've started going for describing it as the same family of chips as the arduino uses and the 3D printers use.
[12:38] <mfa298> although the 3D printer next to me actually has 2 atmegas
[12:39] <mattbrejza> sigh, failure to understand multitasking on a micro...
[12:40] <mfa298> might actually be more by design. One looks to be a small one with USB, the other is larger. So my guess is the small USB one just handles the USB interface and things like updating the firmware
[12:40] <mattbrejza> ohright
[12:41] <craag_philcrump> like the arduinos do
[12:42] <craag_philcrump> use an atmega as a glorified ftdi
[12:43] <mfa298> 8U2 and a 1280 based on the ISP headers on the board
[12:45] <mfa298> I had wondered if I'd need to bring in my AVRISP the other day when someone tried upgrading the firmware and broke the printer
[12:47] KingJ (~kj@nessa.kingj.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:48] KingJ (~kj@nessa.kingj.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:59] marshall_law (~marshall_@static-71-123-233-2.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:59] marshall_law (~marshall_@static-71-123-233-2.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:00] marshall_law (~marshall_@static-71-123-233-2.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:05] Action: amell wonders if anyone is recovering beckstem
[13:05] <amell> I would if i was local to it :)
[13:10] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) joined #highaltitude.
[13:29] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.122) joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] <yo3fvr> !dial beckstem
[13:31] <SpacenearUS> 03yo3fvr: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[13:31] <UpuWork> its down yo3fvr
[13:31] <fsphil> it has fallen
[13:31] <lz1dev> rip
[13:31] <yo3fvr> ok, tnx
[13:31] <UpuWork> free if you collect it
[13:32] <yo3fvr> hehehe, is too far from YO :-)
[13:32] Action: craag_philcrump weighs hours of dev time Upu has put into it VS plane ticket..
[13:33] <costyn_> UpuWork: whats the payload?
[13:36] <lz1dev> 50g block of pure gold
[13:36] <craag_philcrump> costyn_: It was a pAVAr9 I believe
[13:36] <craag_philcrump> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=675
[13:36] <costyn_> craag_philcrump: thx
[13:36] <amell> more valuable than gold
[13:39] Steve_G0TDJ (d49f4aee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.159.74.238) joined #highaltitude.
[13:40] <costyn_> UpuWork: nice writeup :) I'm impressed by the lengths you guys are going through to get lighter and lighter... reflow ovens, snap-off headers :)
[13:42] <mfa298> evert 1/2 gram counts :)
[13:44] <UpuWork> it does
[13:44] <UpuWork> it was one of these http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/01-v3sg93U.jpg
[13:44] <costyn_> UpuWork: yea just reading what craag_philcrump posted ... very cool
[13:45] <amell> Upuwork: lora chips arrived yet?
[13:45] <UpuWork> yes Amadiro
[13:45] <UpuWork> oops
[13:45] <UpuWork> just put them on the shop about 5 mins ago
[13:45] <amell> Upuwork: do you have any max8 on chip scale breakout? not on shop
[13:45] <UpuWork> not yet I'm selling the boards with 7's on atm
[13:46] <UpuWork> would rather sell those first :)
[13:46] <amell> what no fire sale ? :)
[13:47] <UpuWork> well I have reduced the price of the NTP board
[13:47] <UpuWork> slightly
[13:47] <amell> I was hoping for a 50% off sale on ublox 7, but that would be too much to ask for.
[13:47] <amell> :)
[13:47] <UpuWork> yes it would
[13:48] <UpuWork> because then I wouldn't make any money
[13:48] <UpuWork> my company would go bust
[13:48] <UpuWork> the bills for the hosting wouldn't be paid
[13:48] <UpuWork> and spacenear.us would stop working
[13:48] <amell> you have THAT much stock of 7? ouch
[13:48] <UpuWork> and it would be your fault
[13:48] <costyn_> lol
[13:48] <UpuWork> not many at all actually
[13:49] <amell> has anybody done rtty with the rf98w yet?
[13:49] <craag_philcrump> amell: Nope, but I've used my laptop to bang in a nail
[13:50] <amell> awesome
[13:50] <craag_philcrump> ;) It would be trivial to implement
[13:50] <jonsowman> lol
[13:51] <costyn_> anybody been playing with uplink/sending commands to HABs?
[13:52] <amell> i cant see anything in datasheet that stops doing rtty. idea to use these instead of ntx2
[13:52] <craag_philcrump> amell: If you just want to do rtty , use the rfm69w instead
[13:52] <craag_philcrump> official replacement of rfm22, and cheaper than 98
[13:52] <amell> isnt the tcxo on 98 better?
[13:53] <craag_philcrump> No idea, wouldn't have thought so
[13:53] <UpuWork> its a TCXO ?
[13:53] <craag_philcrump> yeah doubt it's a tcxo
[13:54] <craag_philcrump> and they're both designed for wideband modes
[13:55] <amell> http://www.semtech.com/images/datasheet/an120014-xo-guidance-lora-modulation.pdf
[13:55] <amell> interesting
[13:55] <amell> claim that the orientation of the crystal is important.
[13:55] <amell> I was looking to see if it was published april 1st.
[13:56] <mfa298> costyn_: a few of us have been playing with rfm69's and sensor networks with the aim to put some on balloons (sea bouys, ...) see ukhas.net and #ukhasnet
[13:57] <mattbrejza> a mechanical device affected by acceleration (gravity)? who would have thought...
[13:57] yo3fvr (~anonymous@109.166.134.122) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:03] <costyn_> mfa298: sounds cool
[14:03] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@62.10.5.101) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[14:16] qyx_ (~qyx@krtko.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[14:24] marshall_law (~marshall_@static-71-123-233-2.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:35] Alex____ (83e3088e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.227.8.142) joined #highaltitude.
[14:35] Alex____ (83e3088e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.227.8.142) left irc: Client Quit
[14:36] SSC_Alex (83e3088e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.227.8.142) joined #highaltitude.
[14:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kalel - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=Kalel
[14:39] <SSC_Alex> Hey guys. I am part of a team from the Surrey Space Centre who would like to launch a high altitude balloon. We are using the standard RTTY/Radiometrix tracking system. Where can we submit our details so it can be tracked on spacenear.us?
[14:40] <lz1dev> SSC_Alex: http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[14:40] <SSC_Alex> Thanks!
[14:43] qyx_ (~qyx@krtko.org) joined #highaltitude.
[14:43] Steve_G0TDJ_ (d49f4aee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.159.74.238) joined #highaltitude.
[14:44] Steve_G0TDJ (d49f4aee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.159.74.238) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[14:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Lois - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=Lois
[14:53] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OLSEN - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=OLSEN
[14:55] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[14:56] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:12] mightymik (4c67fd96@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.103.253.150) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[15:13] <lz1dev> SSC_Alex: once you get the payload config complete, test it to see that it works and make a flight doc
[15:14] <lz1dev> then go to #habhub and show the id to get it approved
[15:14] <SSC_Alex> It parses correctly, according to the online server. However, is there any way for it to plot position without submitting a flight doc?
[15:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CLARK - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=CLARK
[15:15] <lz1dev> SSC_Alex: yes, all you need is to have a working payload config
[15:16] <lz1dev> send data and it will pop up on the map
[15:16] <amell> daveake: will LOIS be joining us shortly?
[15:16] <daveake> not mine, but probably
[15:16] <lz1dev> !whereis b-66
[15:16] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03B-66 was over 03Kalmansky District, Altai Krai, Russia 10(53.0078,83.0759) at 0313472 meters about 0312 days ago
[15:17] <lz1dev> i think b66 is dead :(
[15:17] <amell> me too
[15:17] <lz1dev> last point on hysplit was on the 5th
[15:17] <lz1dev> now its 9th :(
[15:17] Prometheas (~marios@147.Red-79-153-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[15:17] <amell> oh. Lois is a long way from Clark
[15:19] <daveake> Within a single bound no doubt
[15:21] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[15:27] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-137-121.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:30] <fsphil> no sign of STEWIE yet
[15:30] DL7AD (5cd51e1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.213.30.30) joined #highaltitude.
[15:38] <daveake> :)
[15:42] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@62.10.5.101) joined #highaltitude.
[15:47] jcoxon (~jcoxon@87.114.107.169) joined #highaltitude.
[15:51] jededu (~edusuppor@host86-176-24-96.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[15:54] jedas (~gedas@78.63.193.219) joined #highaltitude.
[15:56] jededu (~edusuppor@host109-152-14-253.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:59] chimpusmaximus (1f30b92f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.48.185.47) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[16:05] LeoBodnar (6d9d54f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.157.84.246) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[16:07] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[16:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: rescue team is setting up :-)
[16:07] EwanP (~yaaic@134.146.0.4) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:08] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[16:12] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Client Quit
[16:12] HeathrowT5 (~yaaic@134.146.0.4) joined #highaltitude.
[16:15] rg7kl (c331c855@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.49.200.85) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[16:16] malgar (~malgar@to-18-83-38.service.infuturo.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[16:17] HeathrowT5 (~yaaic@134.146.0.4) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:21] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[16:23] <DL7AD> !hysplit VX-20
[16:23] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: HYSPLIT for 03VX-20 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/140909-10_187623_VX20.gif
[16:26] <DL7AD> !flight VX-20
[16:26] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: Flight 10(5d26): 03VX-20 434.200/144.250 MHz 10(2 payloads) - Launch date 03Last Thursday at 15:00 from 03Slezská Ostrava, Czech Republic 10(49.8752,18.2977)
[16:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZURG1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=ZURG1
[16:28] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[16:29] chimpusmaximus (~chimpusma@host31-48-185-47.range31-48.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:30] LA5VNA (~n11618@250.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:34] LeoBodnar (0264ca68@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.100.202.104) joined #highaltitude.
[16:35] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:37] Guest40781 (nloughran@gateway.ash.thebunker.net) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[16:38] MoALTz (~no@user-46-112-48-243.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[16:43] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[16:43] jcoxon (~jcoxon@87.114.107.169) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[16:47] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[16:53] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[17:01] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[17:05] chimpusmaximus (~chimpusma@host31-48-185-47.range31-48.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Lingo - http://www.lingoirc.com
[17:05] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) joined #highaltitude.
[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LEX - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=LEX
[17:07] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@62.10.5.101) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[17:07] gonzo_nb (~gonzo@host-92-6-244-156.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:17] Bob_Saget (~root@cpe-174-109-081-164.nc.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[17:27] ibanezmatt13 (5693ebf7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.147.235.247) joined #highaltitude.
[17:27] ibanezmatt13 (5693ebf7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.147.235.247) left irc: Client Quit
[17:41] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[17:41] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) joined #highaltitude.
[17:42] <Scott85> hi
[17:43] <Scott85> So I'm looking at the interrupt driven RTTY example on this page http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:interrupt_driven_rtty
[17:43] <Scott85> this might seem a bit noob but I'm not sure how to get it to "fire off" and actually start transmitting
[17:44] <Scott85> I've tried putting text into the char array and setting tx_status to 1 but nothing happens
[17:44] <Scott85> it's like something has to start it?
[17:45] roll0 (~michaelke@88-105-90-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:45] Nick change: roll0 -> mk23
[17:47] <Upu> I think thats the bit where you understand whats going on and make the final step :)
[17:47] <Upu> clue look at tx_status
[17:48] <Scott85> OK thanks, I thought it would be something to do with tx_status, that's why I set it to 1
[17:49] <Scott85> will read up on arduino interrupts cause tbh it's all Greek to me :)
[17:49] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[17:53] mclane_ (~quassel@p5498DC6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:56] rg7kl (c331c855@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.49.200.85) joined #highaltitude.
[18:00] rg7kl (c331c855@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.49.200.85) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[18:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03B-64 after 038 days silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?focus=B-64
[18:01] <daveake> oo
[18:01] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:02] <amell> eeek!
[18:03] <x-f> !!
[18:03] <mclane_> very cool!!
[18:03] <lz1dev> russia i guess
[18:03] <lz1dev> !whereis b-64
[18:03] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03B-64 is over 03Khanty-Mansiysky District, Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug, Russia 10(60.9738,67.2281) at 0311937 meters
[18:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> WOw 4th circle ?
[18:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> Leo has its own sattelite :-)
[18:04] <amell> another pass of the pole? I cant see what the max latitude is...
[18:04] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[18:05] <lz1dev> probably not
[18:05] <amell> think this means its been round the planet three times now and is part way through the fourth
[18:05] <amell> outstanding :)
[18:05] <amell> LeoBodnar: ping :)
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> heh
[18:07] <craag_philcrump> wow
[18:07] <craag_philcrump> how many days is that now?
[18:07] <amell> something completely ridiculous
[18:07] SSC_Alex (83e3088e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.227.8.142) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[18:07] <LeoBodnar> 59.5 days
[18:08] <craag_philcrump> !congratsleo
[18:08] <craag_philcrump> aww this should be a feature
[18:08] <amell> Leobodnar: log replay seems to be done in the new tracker but not in snus, bit confusing?
[18:08] <daveake> hah
[18:08] <LeoBodnar> i think the flightdoc expired
[18:08] <amell> ah. entirely unsurprising :)
[18:08] <daveake> I think the server will expire before the B-s do
[18:10] <amell> looking at the igate location vs path, i think we should get a few more packets.
[18:11] Action: amell wonders how much iWatch costs.
[18:11] <lz1dev> ok
[18:11] <lz1dev> amell: about that, i've enabled geodesic liens
[18:11] <lz1dev> lines*
[18:11] <amell> lz1dev: oh, so shortest path.
[18:12] <lz1dev> essentially it draws the shortest path along the surface, instead of straight line
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> oh, nice curvy lines
[18:13] <lz1dev> !hysplit run b-64
[18:13] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[18:14] <amell> !hysplit b-64
[18:14] <SpacenearUS> 03amell: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/140909-16_194606_B64.gif
[18:14] <amell> ok thats the old one
[18:14] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[18:14] <lz1dev> > Check in a few minutes
[18:15] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[18:15] <lz1dev> !hysplit b-64
[18:15] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT for 03B-64 - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/140909-18_197530_B64.gif
[18:16] Action: cm13g09 sighs... Leo is just too good at this
[18:16] <amell> how long has it been dark in b-64 location?
[18:16] <amell> vbat is 3.381V
[18:17] <lz1dev> its nearly half way through the night
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> We don't know where b64... Woo!
[18:17] <amell> its midnight local time for b-64. battery seems a lot lower than its previous discharges.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> and indeed yay
[18:17] <amell> am i right in thinking it looks like the battery has some capacity issues?
[18:18] <murb> inflight replacement!
[18:19] <amell> hopefully get some more data points back in the next hour or two.
[18:21] <LeoBodnar> it seems pretty nominal for midnight and -44C
[18:21] <craag_philcrump> "Flight is nominal"
[18:21] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[18:21] <craag_philcrump> "Flight is nominal"
[18:22] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:22] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[18:22] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:23] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[18:23] <craag_philcrump> "Warning: Flight duration has exceeded nominal parameters"
[18:26] <cm13g09> LOL
[18:26] <cm13g09> craag_philcrump: that's a good one
[18:28] <ulfr> How long as b-64 been up now?
[18:28] <mfa298> at this rate the B-s are going to need multiple batteries and cycle through them one at a time as the previous one fails
[18:28] <craag_philcrump> ulfr: 59.5 days
[18:28] <ulfr> holy snap
[18:28] <lz1dev> Length: 77144.83 km
[18:28] <lz1dev> Duration: 59d 11h
[18:29] <craag_philcrump> I think it's due a service...
[18:29] <mattbrejza> the battery has only had 60 cycles, but i guess discharging that deep doesnt help
[18:30] <amell> B-64 has flown 20% of the distance to the moon so far.
[18:30] <ulfr> When is it estimated to arrive at the moon? ;)
[18:31] <amell> not in our lifetimes.
[18:31] <ulfr> :(
[18:31] SiC (Simon@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust193.aztw.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:31] <daveake> ublox moon mode engaged?
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Fun fact.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Conventional GPS recievers - hooked to a ~1.2m or so dish - will pretty much give a GPS position on the moon
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Admittedly a very bad position - as DOP is terrible
[18:33] <amell> Speedevil: but the sats are inside of the moons orbit, cant see how that would work?
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> amell: picking up the overspill from sats coming over the earth horizon
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> depends on the receiver firmware purely
[18:33] <daveake> "You're on the moon". Cheers.
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> it might apply "common sense filters"
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - 99.99999% of GPSs I would expect to not work without a hack
[18:34] <amell> Leos next challenge?
[18:34] <amell> land a GPS on the moon and evaluate?
[18:35] <craag_philcrump> how would you know it's on the moon? :P
[18:35] <lz1dev> aren't gps sat pointed in the opposite direction ? ;\
[18:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> lz1dev: Earth bounce ;-)
[18:37] ScottM85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] <LeoBodnar> well the come around the Earth and point towards the Moon over horizon
[18:40] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> imagine you are facing a sat over horizon and the Moon is bhind your back
[18:40] <tweetBot> @G8DHE: HAB UPDATE: B-64 returns!! Launched 12 July and on its 4th circumnavigation! Tracking http://t.co/F48G0eJJDu #ukhas #hab #hamr #amsat
[18:42] <Rebounder> woooow, B64!
[18:42] <myier> what?!
[18:43] <Rebounder> !flight B-64
[18:43] <SpacenearUS> 03Rebounder: Flight 10(3afe): 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(1 payload) - Launch date 0331/08/2014 from 03Northamptonshire, UK 10(52.09598,-1.02228)
[18:43] <myier> brilliant
[18:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Looks like the flight doc has been renewed!
[18:46] <lz1dev> !window b-64
[18:46] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight window for 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe) is from 0311/07/2014 to 03Monday at 22:59
[18:46] <Rebounder> came into range 46 min ago
[18:46] <lz1dev> not yet
[18:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> it has Launch date as 31/08/2014 ?
[18:47] <Rebounder> if receiver has same reception onwards it will be in range less than one hour
[18:47] <Rebounder> from now that is
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> launch was 12/7/14 06:51
[18:49] <kf7fer> kc2pit,zzqa: Here are the pics I promised: The "seamy underbelly" if you will https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8tubmg52irowvf/RevF_Back.JPG?dl=0 and a couple of my inital SA818 test board https://www.dropbox.com/s/5v91cy1zniupxic/SA818_Test.JPG?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzu88bd67ulncyb/SA818Test_Back.JPG?dl=0
[18:50] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar: good evening! yet another congratulations to the continous flight! :)
[18:50] Bob_Saget (~root@cpe-174-109-081-164.nc.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:51] <Upu> oo you're welcome kf7fer :)
[18:52] <kf7fer> I do appreciate your help
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> ta Rebounder !
[18:55] <Geoff-G8DHE_> !whereis B-64
[18:55] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE_: 03B-64 was over 03Khanty-Mansiysky District, Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug, Russia 10(60.706,67.4749) at 0311927 meters about 0321 minutes ago
[18:58] <Rebounder> LeoBodnar: waiting to the current Bs are "truly" gone until launching more?
[18:58] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[18:59] <daveake> might be a long wait
[18:59] <amell> he needs to get rid of his max7 chips somehow...
[19:00] stan001 (56aa4b4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.170.75.78) joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] HeathrowT5 (~yaaic@cm-84.210.48.55.getinternet.no) joined #highaltitude.
[19:03] DG0MG (4fec2266@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.34.102) joined #highaltitude.
[19:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> B-64 most likely flight paths http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-64_20140712/B64_20140909.kmz
[19:04] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[19:04] jedas (~gedas@78.63.193.219) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[19:10] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A803.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:11] <Upu> evening Lunar
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-64_20140712/B-64_201409091912_including%20predictions.jpg
[19:14] DJ3AK_Detlef (4ff3db67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.243.219.103) joined #highaltitude.
[19:15] <DJ3AK_Detlef> unbelievable - B-64 is baxk!
[19:15] malgar (~malgar@rm-19-57-215.service.infuturo.it) joined #highaltitude.
[19:15] <DJ3AK_Detlef> back
[19:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Indeed! http://tinyurl.com/p48gspw
[19:20] <DJ3AK_Detlef> no way to receive it this time. maybe we can catch it next time ;-)
[19:21] <amell> is it replaying log now? it looks like it has some points going into greenland
[19:22] <amell> Im sure Leo never dreamed that it would go round the world three times!
[19:23] <DJ3AK_Detlef> yes, it is outstanding
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes playback is over Hudson Bay and North West passage at the moment
[19:25] <DJ3AK_Detlef> no wonder, nobody received it up there
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> about to go to the triple round?
[19:26] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.static.internet.emt.ee) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Well its past the launch longtitude 3 times but not always meeting the FAI criteria its on its fourth loop now!
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:27] <mclane_> is one of the dl-fldigi specialists around?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I only see two passes
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> the first one and the north pole trip
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> and then it went around once more and now is at the Hudson bay
[19:28] <mfa298> mclane_: depends on what the question is ...
[19:29] <mclane_> I have build dl-fldigi for ubuntu 14.04 using the advise in the wiki
[19:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Count again
[19:29] <mclane_> it crashes with THOR16
[19:29] <mclane_> normal rty works
[19:29] <mclane_> rtty
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE_> its pass Hudson bay now that is the third loop
[19:30] <mclane_> (tryed to receive upus balloon yesterday)
[19:30] <mfa298> have you tried clearing out the settings and see if it works then
[19:30] <mclane_> which settings (there are many)
[19:31] <x-f> whole ~/.dl-fldigi
[19:31] <mfa298> delete the settings folder (or at least move it out the way)
[19:31] <mclane_> ok will try that
[19:31] <amell> did we find out what definition of rtw arhab want to use?
[19:31] <db_g6gzh_> mclane_: I get something similar, it is OK while there is a good signal but crashes receiving noise
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap, yeah that is what I meant
[19:32] <db_g6gzh_> I just assumed I needed to rebuild against the current libs but haven't yet tried that
[19:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Only the first loop from launch will meet FAI criteria for a circumnavigation, the last two loops are too close to the pole and not enough seperation to count
[19:34] <mclane_> clearing ~/.dl-fldigi does not help; rebuild also no success (tried that just a few minutes ago)
[19:35] <mfa298> are you using the latest git or the DL3.1 tagged version (and have you tried the other)
[19:35] <mfa298> rtty isn't as good in HEAD but that may not impact thor etc.
[19:36] <amell> geoff: this loop just done might be good. see what comes back in the log.
[19:36] <mclane_> I am using the DL3.1 version as described in the wiki; I did not try the latest one yet
[19:36] <amell> geoff: but i agree, it is probably a polar flight again.
[19:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> VX-20 5+ days from single AA :-)
[19:37] <db_g6gzh_> latest git appears to not crash for me, but it's also probably built against the current libs as I've not rebuilt the released one for ages
[19:38] <Upu> not bad going that Tom
[19:38] <DJ3AK_Detlef> good job Tom
[19:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> it should survive the night, and the next day
[19:39] niftylettuce__ (uid2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqvfykjqseantvkx) joined #highaltitude.
[19:40] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> Geoff-G8DHE_, yeah
[19:43] ScottM85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[19:44] <mclane_> db_g6gzh_: the HEAD version seems to work with THOR16 andreceiving noise
[19:45] <mclane_> so I am prepared for the next upu-tracker with THOR16 ;-)
[19:45] <MaXimaN> B-64 is back? Awesome!
[19:46] <MaXimaN> LeoBodnar: Congrats on another circumnavigation :)
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> thanks MaXimaN
[19:46] <MaXimaN> Looks like it took another arctic detour
[19:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> looks like it might have passed out of range of UH9JCM-10 :-(
[19:47] <db_g6gzh_> mclane_: that's good, I have kept both versions available here since others have said the RTTY is worse in the latest
[19:47] <mfa298> mclane_: in that case you might need to keep both copies around, the rtty decoder in HEAD has some issues
[19:48] <db_g6gzh_> see, ^^ 8-)
[19:48] <mclane_> yea, I heared that already; that'why I used the 3.1 up to know (normal use case is RTTY still)
[19:49] <mfa298> I did have a look through some of the commits since christmas and it looks like they've made more changes in the rtty code - although I'm not sure if that improves / worsens or has no effect on decoding rtty
[19:49] <mfa298> and I think the git repo has moved for fldigi
[19:49] <MaXimaN> Leo: Will the tracking data backlog sent via APRS also get updated on SNUS?
[19:49] <MaXimaN> Habitat seems to have it
[19:49] <mclane_> where did it move?
[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its updating already think it might just need a refresh
[19:51] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[19:51] <mclane_> mfa298: maybe an update of the wiki would be great?
[19:52] <MaXimaN> Battery and solar still looking healthy as of a week ago
[19:52] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[19:52] <mfa298> mclane_: update for what ?
[19:53] <mclane_> to indicate that THOR16 has issues with 3.1
[19:54] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Client Quit
[19:54] <mfa298> feel free to update it then. I have no experience of using Thor so can't really comment
[19:57] Bogwood (~androirc@cpc17-cmbg14-2-0-cust358.5-4.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] Laurenceb__ (~Laurence@host86-171-127-141.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[20:00] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Client Quit
[20:01] mk23 (~michaelke@88-105-90-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Quit: Lost terminal
[20:05] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[20:07] DL7AD (5cd51e1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.213.30.30) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[20:09] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Client Quit
[20:11] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[20:11] DJ3AK_Detlef (4ff3db67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.243.219.103) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:16] mclane_ (~quassel@p5498DC6C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:28] stan001 (56aa4b4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.170.75.78) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:34] <Upu> ping mfa298
[20:34] <Upu> how long has this OFCOM thing been availble for ?
[20:36] <mfa298> not sure I only spotted it today (probably been around a week since I last looked)
[20:36] <Upu> Ofcom invites written comments on the questions raised in this consultation, to be submitted to Ofcom by 5pm on 9 September 2014. Ofcom strongly prefers to receive responses in electronic format.
[20:36] <Geoff-G8DHE_> It was mailed today I thought as I received by email
[20:36] <Upu> Consultation published 09|09|2014
[20:36] <fsphil> I only heard about it today
[20:36] <craag_philcrump> wat
[20:36] <fsphil> wow
[20:37] <craag_philcrump> :|
[20:37] <fsphil> that must be an error
[20:37] <craag_philcrump> yeah
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> what happened?
[20:37] <fsphil> someone set up us the consulatation
[20:38] <Geoff-G8DHE_> End date 20th October 2014
[20:38] <craag_philcrump> that sounds more like it
[20:38] <Geoff-G8DHE_> See http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/amateur-radio-licence/?utm_source=updates&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=amateur-radio-licence
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, ah in the mailing list
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> I got a news for you all too
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> next Ariane flies September 11
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> UT/GMT: Between 09:21pm and 10:23pm on September 11, 2014
[20:39] <daveake> Second flight?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> stream time
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> not yet
[20:39] <daveake> oh
[20:39] <craag_philcrump> heh
[20:39] <craag_philcrump> soon right Lunar_Lander ?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea hopefully
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> probably privately funded
[20:39] <daveake> Only been a couple of years I guess
[20:39] <craag_philcrump> else your ukhas membership will expire
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea about 1.5 yr
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[20:47] DG0MG (4fec2266@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.34.102) left #highaltitude.
[20:49] Bogwood (~androirc@cpc17-cmbg14-2-0-cust358.5-4.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )
[20:50] f6htj (4f57bdda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.87.189.218) joined #highaltitude.
[20:57] Brian-G0HDI (561fb689@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.31.182.137) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:57] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:58] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:59] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:01] <cm13g09> craag_philcrump: ping
[21:01] <craag_philcrump> cm13g09:
[21:01] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[21:18] marshall_law_ (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:20] SiC (Simon@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust193.aztw.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[21:21] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[21:21] Scott85 (~Scott@cpc14-basf9-2-0-cust125.12-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[21:22] DL7AD (~quassel@p5DD146B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[21:23] thasti (~thasti@95.89.11.126) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[21:28] malclocke (~malc@121.99.231.192) joined #highaltitude.
[21:33] f6htj (4f57bdda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.87.189.218) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:41] HeathrowT5 (~yaaic@cm-84.210.48.55.getinternet.no) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[21:41] blah (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:4c5d:f153:636a:6bd6) joined #highaltitude.
[21:43] beaware2 (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[21:46] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[21:46] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[21:47] malclocke (~malc@121.99.231.192) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[21:59] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:02] marshall_law_ (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[22:03] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:06] malgar (~malgar@rm-19-57-215.service.infuturo.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[22:07] marshall_law (~marshall_@24-178-212-229.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[22:08] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-232-117.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[22:10] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[22:14] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[22:23] jevin (~jevin@72.12.217.220) joined #highaltitude.
[22:34] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[22:34] Gadget-Mac (~stuart@20.132.187.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[22:34] niftylettuce__ (uid2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqvfykjqseantvkx) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[22:34] bertrik (~quassel@cl-1037.haa-01.nl.sixxs.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:34] bertrik (~quassel@cl-1037.haa-01.nl.sixxs.net) left irc: Changing host
[22:34] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[22:47] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-167-137-121.range86-167.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[22:47] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[22:49] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A803.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[22:50] PE0SAT (~ineo@2001:981:356d:1::35) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:01] disruptivetech (marct@c-76-20-193-100.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) left #highaltitude.
[23:05] mikestir (~quassel@2001:470:1f09:1c2b:c158:94c5:6c38:c43e) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[23:19] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[23:43] Laurenceb__ (~Laurence@host86-171-127-141.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:50] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[23:54] GeekShadow (~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 10 2014