highaltitude.log.20140902

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[06:36] <DL7AD> morning
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[06:46] <MLow> o/
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[07:12] <Rebounder> morrn!
[07:12] Action: Rebounder aboard a train that shows course-made-good on the gps. Seems to be following the track. :)
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[07:16] <fsphil> hehe, always good that :)
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[07:30] <MLow> im having a ton of trouble trying to to make my own habuino
[07:33] <Upu> in what way ?
[07:33] <MLow> well it seems like it never can get data from the gps in order to start TX
[07:35] <daveake> Is it getting any data at all? Or is it waiting for a lock?
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[07:35] <MLow> im not sure
[07:35] <MLow> serial output is gibberish
[07:35] <daveake> baud rate
[07:35] <MLow> 9600
[07:35] <Upu> step back
[07:35] <Upu> what do you have ?
[07:35] <Upu> GPS module into what ?
[07:36] <MLow> uno
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[07:36] <Upu> ok connected how ?
[07:36] <Upu> what pins from too ?
[07:36] <MLow> through a logic level converter into the 0,1 pins
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[07:37] <Upu> how are you programming the board ?
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[07:38] <MLow> usb
[07:39] <Upu> what level convertor are you using ?
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[07:40] <MLow> i have it setup as 3v3 on portA and 5v on portB
[07:40] <Upu> what one though
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[07:41] <MLow> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/txb0104.pdf
[07:43] <Upu> ok remove everything from the Uno
[07:44] <Upu> part from the GPS and the level convertor
[07:44] <Upu> Load this code :
[07:44] <Upu> void setup() {}
[07:44] <Upu> void loop() {}
[07:44] <Upu> open the serial port
[07:44] <Upu> what do you get
[07:46] <MLow> um nothing
[07:46] <Upu> you have a problem then
[07:46] <Upu> do you need to turn that level convertor on ?
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[07:53] <daveake> If you idn't remove the GPS and converter, and you managed to program the Uno via USB, then they aren't connected properly. GPS prevents the programming from working.
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[07:58] <MLow> the logic level converter does work
[07:58] <cipher_> what can happen if there's dust left in the filler tube?
[07:58] <MLow> http://screencloud.net/v/B7jc
[07:59] <Upu> you're getting missed characters
[07:59] <fsphil> cipher_: you get a little dust in the balloon. doubt that would have any effect on anything
[07:59] <Upu> oh you're using software serial
[08:00] <Upu> have a nice day
[08:00] <fsphil> lol
[08:00] <MLow> well i was just testing
[08:00] <daveake> There's plenty of dust in the balloon already
[08:00] <daveake> software serial on the hardware uart pins ?????
[08:00] <cipher_> ok
[08:01] <daveake> ok checked source
[08:03] <cipher_> do you guys do anything special to keep the payload facing straight? The camera kind of adds more weight to the front of the box for me
[08:03] <MLow> ok so i disconnected the gps, uploaded the blank file, and connected the gps TX through the level converter, then to the uno TX
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[08:03] <MLow> http://screencloud.net/v/o7ge
[08:07] <MLow> not sure if that helps
[08:08] <MLow> but yes thats over the hardware UART
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[08:15] <jededu> Which is the best device for an efficeint step up reg 1.5 to 3.3
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[08:17] <jededu> Im looking at LTC3526
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[08:27] <mfa298> 09:03 < MLow> ...and connected the gps TX through the level converter, then to the uno TX
[08:28] <mfa298> TX to TX, that sounds a bit odd or does the Uno do backwards labels ?
[08:28] Nick change: thoren_ -> thoren
[08:29] <MLow> to see the gps output into the serial viewer on pc
[08:30] <MLow> just to see if the output from gps was working
[08:31] <mfa298> ah, I see what you've doing. My brain hasn't woken up yet
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[08:33] <MLow> the output from the TX on gps directly to TX on uno is the same as when passed through the level converter
[08:33] <MLow> lots of those ,,,,,,,, sections in the middle of sentences
[08:37] <mfa298> if you're getting sentences with ,,, that could just mean no lock (so it can't fill out those values at present)
[08:38] <MLow> so i should just leave it be for a while?
[08:38] <craag_philcrump> Yeah lots of ,,,, is normal for no lock
[08:39] <craag_philcrump> Put the gps on a windowsill or outside if you can
[08:39] <MLow> i dont think i have a usb cable long enough :S
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[08:51] <MLow> ok
[08:51] <MLow> i think it has a lock now :)
[08:51] <MLow> nope its gone ;(
[08:52] <MLow> at least now it's occasionally getting a lock
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[08:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BALYOLO after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=BALYOLO
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[09:01] <malgar> !whereis b-64
[09:01] <SpacenearUS> 03malgar: 03B-64 was over 03Division No. 18, SK, Canada 10(54.9006,-102.7709) at 0312165 meters about 0315 hours ago
[09:01] <malgar> !whereis b-66
[09:01] <SpacenearUS> 03malgar: 03B-66 was over 03Kalmansky District, Altayskiy kray, Russia 10(53.0078,83.0759) at 0313472 meters about 035 days ago
[09:05] <MLow> but using the habduino code all i get is some gibberish in the serial console
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[09:08] <Charlie__> does anyone know why dl fldigi is translating my signal into this weird language: https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/Screenshots
[09:10] <MLow> http://screencloud.net/v/qG3g
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[09:15] <craag_philcrump> Charlie__: You need to share the folder, then give us that link :)
[09:16] <craag_philcrump> MLow: Have you looked at how the habduino code talks to the gps?
[09:16] <MLow> yeah it turns off a lot of stuff and then switches modes and whatnot
[09:16] <craag_philcrump> I believe it uses the binary UBX protocol, which won't produce anything sensible when directly printed to ascii
[09:16] <craag_philcrump> Look at the MAX7 receiver protocol description
[09:17] <MLow> i have the radio hooked up too and im not getting anything
[09:17] <craag_philcrump> 'hooked up' doesn't tell us much about how you've done it.
[09:18] <craag_philcrump> gtg
[09:18] <MLow> well, as per the code pins
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[09:18] <craag_philcrump> (and I'd expect at least an RF carrier, if not then you've wired it wrong)
[09:18] <MLow> hm
[09:19] <MLow> when i short EN to 5v it puts out the expected carrier
[09:19] <MLow> pin 8, nada
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[09:21] <Charlie___> https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyar1klyx0d24b4/Screen%20Shot%202014-09-02%20at%2009.51.12.png?dl=0
[09:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9RQA after 0312 hours silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=SP9RQA
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[09:24] <Charlie___> please may I have this flight doc approved? Doc ID: 2d8f38117682bc5148b8fcc7f85546b2
[09:24] <myier> Charlie___: you should ask that on the other channel, let met find its name
[09:24] <myier> #habhub
[09:25] <x-f> Charlie___, is the ASCII bits setting correct for what you transmit and what you're decoding?
[09:25] <fsphil> Charlie___: I wouldn't bother getting the doc approved until you can successfully decode your telemetry
[09:25] <fsphil> first off, turn SQL off
[09:25] <fsphil> (bottom right)
[09:26] <myier> yes and I don't think documents are approved without first having a payload showing up on the map now
[09:26] <fsphil> it does look like you have the bits set wrong
[09:27] <fsphil> shift and filter is fine
[09:27] <fsphil> have you set baudot?
[09:27] <fsphil> everything is uppercase there so could be
[09:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPIC1 after 03a day silence - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=EDUPIC1
[09:40] <jededu> Padding Fixed :)
[09:41] <jededu> 05$$$$EDUPIC1,35,09:39:29,5232.32229,-00152.68903,06,138.1,0,23.5,0.5*F6E2
[09:44] <lz1dev> i've fixed it for latitude as well?
[09:44] <MLow> hm so if im not getting a carrier and it is wired to the right pin?
[09:45] <jededu> How do you mean lzldev
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[09:46] <lz1dev> it also has to be padded
[09:46] <lz1dev> ddmm.mmmm for lat
[09:47] <lz1dev> dddmm.mmmm lng
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[09:47] <jededu> Yes ive done the same for lat
[09:48] <lz1dev> ok :)
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[11:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test131_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=test131_chase
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[11:06] <craag_philcrump> Off-topic q: I'm looking at web-based project management tools, anyone got any recommendations/rejections?
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[11:06] <craag_philcrump> Assignable task lists, calendar/gantt chart, etc
[11:07] <craag_philcrump> Currently redmine looks like the best fit
[11:07] <lz1dev> for personal use?
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[11:07] <craag_philcrump> small company use (~6 employees)
[11:08] <lz1dev> go with jira
[11:08] <lz1dev> its 10 bucks if you host it yourself
[11:09] <craag_philcrump> I've looked at that - very software-centred though, this would be for tracking non-software tasks too
[11:09] <craag_philcrump> probably mainly non-software
[11:10] <adamgreig> EMFcamp used redmine to manage everything and didn't totally hate it aiui
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[11:10] <mattbrejza> craag_philcrump: lol, they finally cracked?
[11:13] <craag_philcrump> Not exactly.. but imo it's needed. So I'm gonna start using it and they shall be converted/coerced/forced in time.
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[11:13] <mfa298> we're using basecamp here but I think it's a paid for thing https://basecamp.com/
[11:13] <craag_philcrump> adamgreig: Cheers, that's good enough for me :)
[11:13] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: i've heard is pretty good at not software
[11:13] <lz1dev> jira that is
[11:13] <adamgreig> basecamp is nice too, a few companies i've worked for have used it
[11:14] <adamgreig> though in my limited experience it didn't do as much as redmine?
[11:14] <lz1dev> apache had one, bloodhound i think
[11:14] <MLow> yea but do they accept bitcoin as payment /sarcasm
[11:17] <craag_philcrump> Basecamp looks nice. Ok thanks guys.
[11:17] <mfa298> basecamp seems to be good at tracking todo lists and that side of things but I'm not sure if gets into full project managment (although that could just be just how we're using it)
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[11:19] <craag_philcrump> Yeah redmine looks the most comprehensive. Shall give it a go.
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[11:31] <jcoxon> oh wow an almost empty spacenear.us map
[11:31] <craag_philcrump> nooo, must be a bug
[11:31] <craag_philcrump> ;)
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9RQA - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=SP9RQA
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[11:33] <jcoxon> oh well it was nice while it lasted
[11:42] <daveake> It wouldn't have lasted that much longer anyway :)
[11:42] <daveake> Permission in from DM for tomorrow's flight
[11:43] <craag_philcrump> :)
[11:43] <craag_philcrump> Looking forward to seeing LoRa in action
[11:43] <daveake> Should be interesting
[11:43] Lunar_LanderU (~gd-winzen@131.173.11.189) joined #highaltitude.
[11:43] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[11:43] <daveake> Shame it's not going that far away from here
[11:43] <craag_philcrump> gday Lunar_LanderU
[11:43] <daveake> However Upu will be set up
[11:44] <craag_philcrump> He's got it plugged into his yagi I guess?
[11:44] <daveake> via a habamp
[11:44] <craag_philcrump> :)
[11:44] <craag_philcrump> I have an 868 habamp
[11:45] <craag_philcrump> forgot to take it at the weekend
[11:45] <daveake> ah
[11:45] <daveake> I have an 868 yagi now but not a habamp
[11:45] <UpuWork> yeah just finished off wiring up an habamp for it
[11:45] <UpuWork> very interested to see what happens
[11:45] <craag_philcrump> I'll probably put the habamp up at the websdr site with an rx-only gateway
[11:45] <daveake> This is 434 LoRa btw
[11:45] <craag_philcrump> yeah
[11:45] <Lunar_LanderU> just cleaning the lab table
[11:46] <UpuWork> I cleared the map this morning as it was getting silly
[11:46] <daveake> after a dissection Lunar_LanderU ?
[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> no, I don't do stuff like that
[11:46] <daveake> :) good to hear it
[11:46] <Lunar_LanderU> but lead, flux, coffee cup rings
[11:46] Action: craag_philcrump does dissections all the time
[11:46] <craag_philcrump> electronic kit dissections
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[11:48] <nats`> the lol sentence of today: "it should not be a problem to add it on the pcb it's only a 3x3mm chip"
[11:48] <nats`> yay it's never a problem when you're not doing it
[11:48] <jcoxon> i've done dissection
[11:49] <lz1dev> jcoxon: what was the subject?
[11:51] <jcoxon> learning anatomy
[11:51] <jcoxon> :-p
[11:51] <fsphil> who was the subject? :)
[11:52] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:52] <Lunar_LanderU> swivel chair fail http://s.gullipics.com/image/7/m/z/ji1rd7r-keqaff-pf0e/20140902131608.jpeg
[11:52] <jcoxon> a very kind person who donated their body...
[11:53] <lz1dev> that something a murder would say
[11:53] Action: daveake tries to think who we haven't seen around here for a while...
[11:54] <jcoxon> hehe, back to high altitude balloons
[11:54] <lz1dev> chaning the subject, very suspicious
[11:55] <lz1dev> changing*
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[11:56] <Lunar_LanderU> for all of those who wonder what antenna one needs to track balloons
[11:56] <Lunar_LanderU> a good suggestion is this: http://s.gullipics.com/image/0/5/t/5yva39-kenz8z-r98k/IMG1409.jpeg
[11:57] <craag_philcrump> Biggest issue is probably pointing it accurately
[11:57] <fsphil> P+P is going to be a pain
[11:57] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[12:03] <daveake> Call that a dish? *this* is a dish :p http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1070994.jpg
[12:04] <lz1dev> http://giant.gfycat.com/DenseIdolizedHyrax.gif
[12:04] <nats`> lz1dev if it was true it would be the worst idea ever :p
[12:05] <lz1dev> why?
[12:07] <fsphil> haha, that would be handy
[12:10] <Lunar_LanderU> awesome dave :)!
[12:10] <Lunar_LanderU> laser :()
[12:10] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
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[12:11] <nats`> lz1dev eyes of your friend coming in the room while you cut the wire plastic ?
[12:11] <nats`> totally not controlled reflection
[12:12] <lz1dev> well you do the GB thing
[12:12] <lz1dev> add a sign on the door (high powered lazer)
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[12:28] <lz1dev> think the biggest problem is that you can unintetionally burn a lot of other things
[12:29] <lz1dev> including your eyes
[12:30] <daveake> though you'd probably be more careful after losing the first one :/
[12:30] <nats`> daveake it's a too shot process :D
[12:30] <nats`> like backuping your HD
[12:30] <nats`> HD burn -> Bakcup policy -> Backup policy forgotten -> HD burns
[12:30] <lz1dev> daveake: but you won't have depth perception, so your aim would be even worse :D
[12:31] <daveake> ha :)
[12:31] <lz1dev> i think you it's pretty much over at one eye
[12:32] <nats`> let's ask jcoxon to have one of those nice donor to test our theories
[12:32] <lz1dev> ^---- sometimes you start a sentence and you finish it with another sentence
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[12:59] <WillDWork> daveake - any pics of your LoRa payload? Cheeky I know :)
[12:59] <daveake> Will do
[12:59] <mattbrejza> iirc its layout compatible with the rfm22b
[13:00] <daveake> Not sure. It's different to the 69HW.
[13:00] <mattbrejza> although im going for daveake having ugly bugged it
[13:00] <daveake> <shocked>
[13:00] <daveake> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwMxtN4IEAA-v1l.jpg
[13:01] <WillDWork> cool - some people eh
[13:01] <daveake> That's the one I made for Upu to Rx with; all the rest are ugly bugs :p
[13:02] <mattbrejza> ha :P
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[13:03] <daveake> I'm out of modules now, but if more arrive today I'll make up a couple more gateways like that one
[13:03] <UpuWork> I've got some modules on order
[13:03] <WillDWork> what are you putting in and getting out? i.e. how are you interfacing? SPI type stuff?
[13:03] <UpuWork> and a PCB to make a neat plug on a Pi for RX
[13:03] <mattbrejza> i wonder if you could bodge the fsk modem in the lora ones to work with the rfm69
[13:03] <daveake> Usefully, the "Slice of Pi" board has some holes at 2mm pitch, which is what you need for the RFMs
[13:04] <daveake> mattbrejza Quite likely I suspect
[13:04] <daveake> WillDWork Yes it's SPI
[13:04] <daveake> packet in packet out
[13:04] <mattbrejza> i guess you just need to set the preamble to be the same or something like that
[13:04] <MLow> that looks wonderfully simple
[13:04] <jcoxon> we could always run a ukhasnet protocol on the LoRa modules
[13:04] <daveake> yup
[13:05] <UpuWork> they should be in stock soon(TM
[13:05] <mattbrejza> although ideally you would want a mode to be able to work with both to save having two separate ukhasnet networks jcoxon ?
[13:05] <daveake> That's the 434 modules?
[13:05] <UpuWork> 868
[13:05] <daveake> Ah OK
[13:05] <UpuWork> and 434 LoRa
[13:05] <mattbrejza> oh the other big issue :P
[13:05] <mattbrejza> forgot abouyt that
[13:06] <jcoxon> the question would be whether 868 is better vs 434 LoRa
[13:06] <mattbrejza> is ukhasnet due to fly again with issues from sun fixed?
[13:06] <daveake> Well there are 868 LoRa modules too
[13:06] <daveake> I have a couple here
[13:06] <nats`> lora comes from the 868 world in fact
[13:06] <daveake> Different power/duty cycle/bandwidth rules
[13:06] <nats`> the 434 is the second generation with a max data rate reduced and a higher level of FEC activated
[13:07] <mattbrejza> nats`: any idea how multiple user lora works?
[13:07] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, hopefully a node is going on dave's flight tomorrow
[13:07] <nats`> multiple user ?
[13:07] <jcoxon> (and its not a lpc810 so doesn't have the bug)
[13:07] <daveake> :)
[13:07] <mattbrejza> like with spreading you can recieve multiple transmissions on the same freq at the same time
[13:07] <mattbrejza> i thought lora supported this
[13:08] <daveake> Nope
[13:08] <nats`> for what I know they don't unless you use different spreading factor
[13:08] <mattbrejza> hmm ok
[13:08] <nats`> in that case it works because SF are orthogonal
[13:08] <MLow> is model A or B the more expensive/featured one?
[13:08] <nats`> but the receiver will never see the two stream
[13:08] <daveake> Yeah that's what I meant to say
[13:09] <daveake> MLow B adds LAN and extra USB and draws lots more current
[13:09] <nats`> anyway semtech/cycleo has some base station based on a basband processor behind lora front end
[13:09] <mattbrejza> so there arnt different spreading factors that are orthogonal but give the same spread?
[13:09] <nats`> it's like having tens of lora transceiver in one chip
[13:09] <nats`> not as I know mattbrejza
[13:09] <MLow> ah, i have a B then, unfortunate
[13:09] <craag_philcrump> Yeah datasheet does say it has one RF fronted -> I/Q -> multiple demodulators
[13:09] <mattbrejza> hmm thats annoying
[13:09] <mattbrejza> what you want is each balloon with its own orthognal spreading sequence
[13:09] <daveake> MLow Develop on a B; fly an A
[13:10] <MLow> oh i was just toying with the idea, im far from getting my thing to work lol
[13:10] <MLow> code doesnt work, dont understand the code, etc
[13:10] <nats`> mattbrejza it's not really necessary
[13:11] <mattbrejza> well balloons on 100%DC it would be
[13:11] <nats`> I mean the link is really secure and if you don't tx too much bits (remember 300bps at the max SF12) you are pretty sure to not need any retry
[13:11] <mattbrejza> but was lora designed for muich less?
[13:12] <nats`> mattbrejza it's complicated I don't know rules in the airborn system
[13:12] <nats`> but on the ground it was designed with G band in mind
[13:12] <nats`> that's why I said it comes from the 868MHz world
[13:12] <nats`> I don't know how it fits in 434MHz band
[13:13] <mattbrejza> and the G band has limited duty cycle limits?
[13:13] <mattbrejza> so it TDMA rather than CDMA?
[13:13] <nats`> it's more complicated let me find back the definition
[13:13] <nats`> it depends on what Gx you use at what power
[13:13] <nats`> but IIRC it recently changed
[13:14] <mattbrejza> ok thanks
[13:16] <MLow> trackuino code works fine for me but i wanna use rtty for real time telemetry :(
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[13:18] <mattbrejza> isnt taht what it does?
[13:19] <MLow> trackuino is aprs with a hx1
[13:19] <mattbrejza> oh habduino != trackuino
[13:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=BALYOLO
[13:19] <mattbrejza> aprs is still real time though :/
[13:19] <MLow> right, i cant seem to get habduino to do anything
[13:20] <nats`> http://pastebin.com/CC1Yp5K8
[13:20] <nats`> mattbrejza a quick summary
[13:20] <MLow> well it's kind of frowned upon to update that freqeuntly here
[13:20] <nats`> but care I don't know if it's still valid
[13:20] <MLow> on aprs that is
[13:20] <mattbrejza> ah yea, that seems familar nats`
[13:20] <mattbrejza> CDMA doesnt really seem needed
[13:20] <mattbrejza> would be nice for us though
[13:21] <nats`> if you see size of band you quickly understand lora's choices :)
[13:21] <nats`> it fits directly in the Gx bands
[13:21] <mattbrejza> ah yea
[13:22] <daveake> Yep. You can take up the whole of g4 @ 100% DC but low power
[13:23] <mattbrejza> well with lora balloons it would be quite easy to have them internet connected and grap flight docs
[13:23] <mattbrejza> then tune themselves
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[13:24] <nats`> care it's not airborn for sure and surely not valid anymore I saw that EN300 220 redefine some stuff
[13:25] <nats`> + 868MHz band could be really f**ed up soon
[13:25] <nats`> (one of my major worry at work)
[13:25] <nats`> if they really activate LTE on the 800MHz.... that'll be shit load for small device
[13:26] <mattbrejza> all the 869 is airborne
[13:26] <mattbrejza> but limited on DC, so theres no more throughput avaliable compared to 434
[13:28] <nats`> oh oky I didn't know 868 is airborn
[13:28] <nats`> (not sure for france)
[13:29] <mattbrejza> ir2030 is what we have in the uk and all the 869 stuff is airborne, including the 500mW one
[13:30] <nats`> that's pretty cool :)
[13:30] <mattbrejza> 10%DC limits is usablilty for high throughput though
[13:30] <mattbrejza> *its
[13:30] <nats`> 10% gives a 30bps in the more robust lora mode
[13:30] <nats`> it's a little slow
[13:31] <nats`> but for what I know this mode is really for hard env
[13:31] <nats`> I managed to go through 6 floor (basement included) with sx1272 devkit
[13:31] <nats`> not sure it's really needed for direct sight TX
[13:31] <mattbrejza> will be interesting to see how daveake gets on, especially when drining around
[13:32] <nats`> what parameter were used ?
[13:32] <mattbrejza> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/JDUFBvY9Pu4
[13:33] <nats`> I need to source some 433MHz module to test with such small BW
[13:35] <daveake> I've had them doing SSDV at 300kHz. Nicely rapid :-). However not allowed on 434
[13:35] <mattbrejza> at 100%
[13:35] <daveake> Something like 20 seconds for a decent image
[13:35] <daveake> yes
[13:35] <mattbrejza> 3hrs on, 30hrs off? :P
[13:35] <daveake> haha :)
[13:35] <UpuWork> thats how I read the legislation
[13:36] <nats`> uhhhmmm not sure you read it well :p
[13:36] <mattbrejza> etsi300220 whatever says within 1hr :(
[13:36] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/XVO46.gif
[13:36] <nats`> IIRC the integration time is definined
[13:36] <nats`> the only way to have more DC is implementing a real LBT + AFA
[13:37] <nats`> UpuWork you sell product based on your reading ? :D
[13:37] <mattbrejza> i seem to remember the listen period is quite long and the talk period is quite short though
[13:37] <nats`> because this cat could comes from the custom :p
[13:42] <mfa298> mattbrejza: surely 4 billion years off so 400 million years on :) so plenty of time to go before you need to turn the tx back off :p
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[13:43] <mattbrejza> daveake: have you increased somewhat the repeat time on your ukhasnet node flying tomorrow?
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[13:44] <mattbrejza> we reckon that might be one reason we didnt get any ground->air->ground packets
[13:44] <mattbrejza> that and the 434 harmonics into the 868
[13:44] <mattbrejza> they were very close
[13:44] <daveake> Not done anything to that yet
[13:44] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:46] <daveake> Happy to set whatever you think best
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[13:46] <es5nhc> Hey x-f, how is the recovery going?
[13:47] <mattbrejza> just needs to be longer than the ground based repeaters i think
[13:47] <x-f> es5nhc, it's in "waiting for the weekend" phase
[13:47] <es5nhc> ok
[13:48] <jcoxon> mattbrejza, and the low power output on repeated packets :-S
[13:48] <mattbrejza> oh i didnt know it did that
[13:49] <jcoxon> yeah i've been code fixing
[13:49] <jcoxon> so beacons were 100mW
[13:49] <mattbrejza> lol
[13:49] <jcoxon> and repeated packets 10mW
[13:49] <jcoxon> fixed now
[13:49] <jcoxon> i looked at all teh data and realised something must have been up
[13:49] <jcoxon> so went back to the code
[13:49] <mattbrejza> still i think the hex-borne repeater was a good idea
[13:50] <jcoxon> yeah just a bit too late
[13:50] <jcoxon> next time
[13:50] <mattbrejza> CCC?
[13:51] <mattbrejza> https://www.flickr.com/photos/barnoid/14905261730/
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[14:04] <craag_philcrump> Of course you could put a yagi on the hex..
[14:04] <fsphil> muhaha
[14:04] <fsphil> who has the skills to fly it? :)
[14:05] <craag_philcrump> might get mistaken for a hexcopter sword attachment
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[14:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA2 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=LORA2
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[14:11] <myier> only 30bps for 10% duty-cycle on 868MHz with LoRa? a bit disappointing :/
[14:11] <mattbrejza> minimum
[14:12] <myier> with hundreds of mW maybe it's not as important to have the most reliable mode
[14:13] <myier> I don't remember, on the $50SAT, what mode do they use? CW?
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[14:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=LORA1
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[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BUZZ - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=BUZZ
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[14:37] <DL7AD_mobile> Good afternoon
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[14:38] <mattbrejza> !ping b-66
[14:38] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Last contact with 03B-66 was 035 days ago
[14:40] <DL7AD_mobile> !ping B-64
[14:40] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD_mobile: Last contact with 03B-64 was 0321 hours ago
[14:40] <Laurenceb> is LORA2 launching?
[14:40] <mattbrejza> !flights
[14:40] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Current flights: 03EMF1 10(ac03), 03PS-19 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(ea6f), 03LORA1 10(6763), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b)
[14:40] <mattbrejza> !flight 6763
[14:40] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Flight 10(6763): 03LORA1 10(3 payloads) - Launch date 03Tomorrow at 12:00 from 03North Sea 10(51.95055,2.54444)
[14:40] <mattbrejza> Laurenceb: ^ :P
[14:40] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[14:41] <Laurenceb> North Sea
[14:41] <craag_philcrump> Looks like someone forgot the sign
[14:41] <Laurenceb> will there be an uplink?
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[14:42] <mattbrejza> not that ive heard
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[14:43] <craag_philcrump> UKHASnet might do some ground -> hab -> ground stuffs
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[16:24] <[1]chrisstubbs> Am I netsplitting or does my internet just suck?
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[16:25] <daveake> latter
[16:25] <[1]chrisstubbs> yay bt
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[16:31] <gurgalof> wow chrisstubbs, your connection really sucks
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[16:37] <chrisstubbs> daveake: i found some solar cells for a roof node, do you have a prediction?
[16:38] <daveake> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/oldgore/
[16:38] <mattbrejza> chrisstubbs: the back of your head is now famous http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29011889
[16:38] <daveake> Probably launching about 2pm
[16:40] <chrisstubbs> lol mattbrejza, shame theres no hab photo
[16:40] <mattbrejza> yea, it seems they were only around on the friday
[16:43] <jcoxon> chrisstubbs, still a chance you'll end up in the magazine article
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[17:01] <mfa298> great quote on the video, Blacksmithing: You get to play with fire and hit things.
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[17:03] <tweetBot1> @AnthonyStirk: Receiver setup for @daveake's LoRa flight tomorrow using a @HABSupplies preamp.Fingers crossed it will work! #ukhas http://t.co/KtsRCXallK
[17:04] Nick change: arjun -> Guest28925
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[17:05] <craag_philcrump> You'd do better amplifying it once then splitting it. (assuming the filters are identical)
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[17:09] <Upu> I know
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[17:09] <Upu> but this works so not touching it for this test
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[17:09] <Upu> change one thing at once :)
[17:10] <craag_philcrump> :)
[17:10] <craag_philcrump> Have you got rssi readout from the lora module?
[17:10] <Upu> ping daveake
[17:11] <Upu> nope just says its listening or something
[17:11] <mattbrejza> comparing when which is recieved first will help too
[17:11] <Upu> yep
[17:11] <Upu> I'll chat to Dave later
[17:12] <craag_philcrump> k, well in light of our ukhasnet experiment I'm quite optimistic about it!
[17:12] <gurgalof> LoRa flight?
[17:12] <Upu> derp
[17:12] <lz1dev> rekt
[17:13] <Upu> http://www.hoperf.com/rf/lora/
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[17:15] <daveake> zeusbot fixes spelling errors :)
[17:16] <mattbrejza> that hopelessrf page doesnt specify which semtech IC each module is based from which is great
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[17:17] <gurgalof> ah, spread spectrum stuff
[17:17] <daveake> not as spread as I'd like, but rules are rules
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[17:24] <arjun_> Are they any guides to attach the parachute to the cord and payload
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[17:27] <craag_philcrump> Is dave going for the 'most modulation modes used simultaneously' record?
[17:27] <daveake> hmmm ...
[17:28] <craag_philcrump> lora(x2), rtty, ukhasnet, afsk
[17:28] <daveake> ssdv
[17:28] <craag_philcrump> :)
[17:28] <gurgalof> add some more just for good measure
[17:28] <daveake> not a mode as such but ..
[17:28] <lz1dev> add arps for whileo n the ground :P
[17:29] <craag_philcrump> Can't fly without CW..
[17:29] <craag_philcrump> :P
[17:29] <daveake> :)
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[17:30] <jcoxon> where is the feldhell
[17:30] <jcoxon> bbl
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[17:31] <gurgalof> and contestia, dominoex and such :)
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[17:41] <Upu> I remember now craag_philcrump
[17:41] <Upu> preamp was in front of the splitter
[17:42] <Upu> but it was doing odd stuff to my FCD Pro+ so I moved it
[17:42] <Upu> Howard has kindly replaced the Pro+ so I need to put it back to see if the issue has gone
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[17:49] <arjun_> Who can I donate server stuff to/
[17:49] <arjun_> *?
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[17:50] <mfa298> arjun_: Upu is probably the person to talk to as he provides the servers and hosting but unless it's decent servers I suspect there's better stuff already in place
[17:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LAASE-B - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=LAASE-B
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[17:53] <arjun_> mfa298 : Nah, it was just some vouchers for digital cloud (similar to amazon ec2), they have some pretty decent server stuff
[17:54] <arjun_> http://imgur.com/jMhFUQ8
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[17:55] <arjun_> I have a $20 voucher, maybe for some quick supercomputer processing power!
[17:56] <mfa298> I suspect probably not hugely useful for the spacenear.us infrastructure but you could always ask in #habhub (more chance of it being spotted by the relevant people there)
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[17:57] <arjun_> Okay, thanks
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:59] <mfa298> you might be better off finding something interesting to do with it yourself, see if there are any challenges you can try cracking with and ec2 instance.
[18:02] <Upu> thx for the offer arjun_ but we are good at the moment
[18:02] <Upu> buy things from hab supplies that supports the server infrastructure :)
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[18:09] <tweetBot1> @AMSAT_UK: BBC reports EMF 2014 about "Getting kids involved" #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas http://t.co/km52Kym056
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[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=LORA1
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[19:46] <DL7AD> evening
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[20:10] <gurgalof> DL7AD: evening
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[20:17] <MLow> why does the rPi model A cost $10 more everywhere
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> Following HAB tradition at EMF: http://bit.ly/1nTbU8o
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[20:21] <Upu> business as normal chrisstubbs :)
[20:21] <Upu> yours had quite a weak signal
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> Yeah so I heard
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> no idea why tbh, but I did have problems with that tracker being super drifty before
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> replaced the rfm module and it seemed okay
[20:22] <Upu> if anyone is interested
[20:22] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/5IqzInS.png Dat Glonass
[20:22] <chrisstubbs> tasty
[20:23] <Laurenceb__> holy shit
[20:23] <Laurenceb__> thats a few sats...
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> That' a dual standard?
[20:24] <Upu> MAX8's
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> haha mattbrejza "(actually ready now) (kinda)" just spotted that
[20:24] <fsphil> lol
[20:24] <MLow> thats a slick interface
[20:25] <MLow> ive been toying with the idea of making software to track aprs balloons
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[20:25] <MLow> offline maps/telemetry readout/etc
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[20:58] <Upu> 115000 feet
[20:58] Action: Upu mourns Sibot
[21:00] <daveake> missingbot
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> I had to double take that
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> "*Upu mounts Sibot"
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[21:03] <arko> oh my
[21:04] SpacenearUS (~snus@2a02:710:1000:700::3) joined #highaltitude.
[21:04] Nick change: arko -> Sibot
[21:04] <Sibot> Upu: 35052m
[21:04] Nick change: Sibot -> arko
[21:04] <Upu> lol
[21:04] <lz1dev> rofl
[21:04] <arko> it had to be done
[21:04] <Upu> thanks the irony of that coming from an american
[21:04] <arko> lol
[21:05] <Upu> http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ERNzVxHq--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18r5grviquu3xpng.png
[21:05] <arko> haha
[21:05] <arko> wheres the red dot at JPL?
[21:05] <Upu> :)
[21:06] <lz1dev> i have to find out which country is that in africa
[21:06] <lz1dev> liberia
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[21:09] <arko> :P
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[21:12] <lz1dev> !ping b-64
[21:12] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Last contact with 03B-64 was 03a day ago
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[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> lz1dev, Liberia?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> danger Ebola!
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[21:20] <lz1dev> pls no
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[21:33] Action: SpacenearUS exiting.. help
[21:41] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
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[21:51] <tweetBot1> @daveake: One of the LoRa gateway boards for the #raspberrypi #ukhas http://t.co/8nzi4tFy4W
[21:52] <tweetBot1> @daveake: Connections hiding on the underside #raspberrypi #ukhas http://t.co/1B9OSSZhzM
[21:52] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
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[22:46] <amell> does max8 do galileo as well as glosnass/gps?
[22:47] <amell> cant believe theres no vehicles on the snus map. this cannot be right
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> AIUI no
[22:48] <daveake> amell cleared ready for tomorrow
[22:48] <lz1dev> amell: Bs are hidden on a separete page
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Well, htere is b64, which may come back
[22:48] <amell> steve is doing one of his top secret flights, we have your lora flight.
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[22:50] <SpeedEvil> amell: Though I don't thinkthat hits populated bits of canada for a while
[22:50] <amell> funny how people are trying lora now& I looked into it in May
[22:51] <daveake> A few of us have been talking about it for ages
[22:51] <daveake> This just happens to be the first time it's being tried under a balloon
[22:52] <amell> why the 98, why not 96?
[22:52] <daveake> No advantage in either for this
[22:52] <lz1dev> whats lora?
[22:52] <amell> remind me, it is 433 youre using?
[22:53] <daveake> yes
[22:53] <daveake> lo range radio ... semtech's take on spread spectrum
[22:53] <daveake> long
[22:54] <amell> is there anything particularly different about frequency stabliity of the 98 compared to say 12/22/69
[22:54] <lz1dev> thats lorr
[22:54] <lz1dev> :)
[22:54] <fsphil> LOng RAnge
[22:57] <mfa298> never let the actual words get in the way of a good acronym
[22:57] <amell> daveake: did you see this - https://github.com/Lora-net
[22:57] <mfa298> or failing that blame it on the French
[22:57] <mikestir> it will be interesting to see if the spread spectrum brings any advantage at these really long ranges, given the huge dynamic range between the wanted signal and the narrowband interferers on 434
[22:57] <lz1dev> Packet engine up to 256 bytes with CRC
[22:58] <lz1dev> packet as in ax25?
[22:58] <mikestir> no
[22:58] <mikestir> as in <sync> <length> <payload> <crc>
[23:00] <amell> http://www.hoperf.com/upload/rf/RFM95_96_97_98W.pdf for those of that bent
[23:00] <daveake> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[23:00] <daveake> Don't
[23:00] <daveake> It's wrong
[23:00] <daveake> Use the semtech documentation instead
[23:00] <amell> It is?
[23:00] <daveake> Grossly, in places
[23:01] <amell> how unhelpful
[23:01] <daveake> Like, completely wrong addresses for some registers
[23:01] <mikestir> the hoperf docs are generally written from an old version of the real doc with any reference to the actual chip find/replaced away
[23:01] <mikestir> except when they miss one, like the document title for the RFM22 doc still mentions SiLabs iirc
[23:02] <amell> what SX part is the 98?
[23:03] <daveake> 1276
[23:03] <daveake> or 78
[23:03] <daveake> It gets confusing :)
[23:03] <amell> http://www.semtech.com/apps/product.php?pn=SX1276
[23:05] <amell> how do you change the frequency of the rx during the flight as the tx wanders with temp?
[23:06] <daveake> Manually
[23:06] <amell> ugh
[23:06] <daveake> It's a test flight; we'll see how bad that is and if the rx copes or not
[23:07] <amell> it will certainly be interesting.
[23:07] <daveake> That is the idea
[23:08] <gurgalof> when will you launch?
[23:08] <daveake> Need to know about the range before messing about with anything else
[23:08] <daveake> tomorrow 2pm
[23:11] <amell> is it easy to identify the frequency being used on the waterfall?
[23:11] <amell> not sure how wide the spread spectrum is
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[23:12] <daveake> It's set to 20.8kHz (see mailing list) so yes it's easy to see the whole lot on an SDR
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[23:14] <amell> oh i missed that email. ta.
[23:16] <mikestir> what's the effective bitrate?
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[23:18] <solitude> which calculator do you gusy use to measure neck lift?
[23:19] <daveake> about 1400 on LORA2
[23:19] <daveake> Sorry, equiv to 1400 baud (8N2)
[23:19] <mikestir> solitude: http://habhub.org/calc/
[23:19] <mikestir> daveake: is that after fec?
[23:19] <daveake> So about 1000
[23:19] <daveake> yes that's the throughput
[23:19] <mikestir> pretty good then if it manages the range
[23:20] <mikestir> I take it no one has reverse engineered it yet and it's all a big secret?
[23:20] <mikestir> so no soft demodulators
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[23:20] <daveake> Someone (not me) is having a look
[23:21] <daveake> lora2 is using that rate; lora1 is much much slower
[23:21] <daveake> so should get much better range
[23:21] <daveake> we'll see
[23:21] <daveake> fsphil is set up for it. If he can get some good reception then that's a great result
[23:22] <amell> a LoRa demodulator for dl-fldigi would be pretty cool :)
[23:23] <daveake> Well, feeding it audio won't work as the required bandwidth is much too high
[23:23] <fsphil> if someone writes a demodulator I doubt very much it'll be added to dl-fldigi :)
[23:23] <fsphil> most likely the habhub parts will be added to it
[23:23] <daveake> Can't get more than 4kHz iirc into dl-fldigi
[23:23] <mikestir> yeah I think the 8 kHz sample rate is hard coded all over the place
[23:23] <daveake> Yes not a good starting place
[23:23] <fsphil> it can be increased slightly (some modules use 11025hz)
[23:24] <fsphil> modes*
[23:24] <daveake> It would be good to have a software solution
[23:24] <daveake> However ... £5-something for the hardware solution
[23:24] <fsphil> it would be much more sensitive than the hardware
[23:25] <fsphil> that said we haven't really tested the hardware yet
[23:25] <fsphil> it could be excellent
[23:25] <daveake> <daveake> we'll see
[23:25] <daveake> :)
[23:26] <fsphil> not getting my hopes up
[23:26] <daveake> nope
[23:26] <daveake> There's a reason the flight will have an rtty tracker :)
[23:26] <mikestir> why should a software solution be any better? the only reason ssb rx and software does well for the narrowband modes is the frequency stability afforded by a decent receiver and the ease of implementing narrow filters digitally
[23:26] <fsphil> that last bit
[23:27] <mikestir> but you don't need that for spread spectrum
[23:27] <mikestir> the correlator is doing that
[23:27] <fsphil> possibly. the module is basically doing it in software already
[23:28] <fsphil> it passes through the IQ ADCs early in the block diagram
[23:28] <qyx_> that doesn't mean it is done in software
[23:28] <mikestir> it's done digitally
[23:29] <mikestir> which I think is what fsphil means
[23:29] <fsphil> yea bad choice of words
[23:29] <fsphil> though it probably is a combo of them
[23:30] <mikestir> even the previous generation fsk chips were doing the channel filtering in the digital domain
[23:30] <fsphil> shame we can't get at the raw IQ data
[23:30] <fsphil> they would make very cheap general purpose receivers
[23:30] <qyx_> there are receivers which have this possibility
[23:30] <qyx_> at least they have i/q registers accessible as a debug feature
[23:31] <qyx_> but i don't remember which chip was it
[23:31] <qyx_> anyway you probably won't be able to read them fast enough to do something useful
[23:33] <mikestir> there are some nice up/down converter chips - analog devices iirc
[23:33] <mikestir> wouldn't be too much of a stretch to build something
[23:33] <mikestir> it won't be low power though!
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[23:33] <qyx_> yep but arount 5x more expensive
[23:33] <qyx_> s/t/d
[23:33] <mikestir> oh yeah they are pricey
[23:33] <qyx_> $20 for a iq downconverter is pretty much
[23:34] <qyx_> + freq synthesizer
[23:34] <qyx_> another $15
[23:34] <mikestir> still a lot cheaper than an ssb receiver
[23:34] <mikestir> but it's basically a fqd
[23:34] <grrk> ran into the guy with the fm synth patent once
[23:35] <mikestir> right must go to bed. gn
[23:36] <qyx_> gn
[23:36] <grrk> k
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 3 2014