highaltitude.log.20140830

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[02:11] <molo> is the mobile tracker broken on firefox for everyone, or just me?
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[03:13] <molo> it was just me.
[03:13] <molo> fixed now.
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[03:25] <kf7fer> Given how Leo is doing, this is an interesting quote from the EOSS web pages Dec '03
[03:25] <kf7fer> "A zero pressure balloon MUST be provided with a means of terminating the flight to keep it from floating in civil airspace at night"
[04:29] <x-f> B's are superpressure balloons
[04:30] <kf7fer> So zero pressure balloons shouldn't fly in civil airspace at night but it's ok for superpressure balloons to do so?
[04:31] <kf7fer> I was just pointing out the "don't fly at night" thought really
[04:33] <x-f> i don't know, was just nitpicking on terminology, but he's balloons are very small and light
[04:33] <kf7fer> I'd think that superpressure balloons are better, no? From what little I've read zero pressure balloons wouldn't fly as long
[04:34] <kf7fer> oh ok. I didn't mean to imply that I was trying to beat him up or anything
[04:34] <x-f> iirc, ZP balloons oscillate with day and night temperature changes, SP's stay at constant altitude
[04:35] <x-f> i agree, it would be better if he flew a bit higher, but i think he'll get there eventually, he started at 5 km float altitude :)
[04:36] <kf7fer> I wonder if you could repeat his success with heavier payloads if you did your own custom envelopes - but just scaled them up 2/3x in size
[04:38] <kf7fer> because now that circling the globe is somewhat... well, been there, done that, right? I'd love to see someone do the same but add SSDV or something
[04:38] <x-f> hehe, there have been talks about very slow SSDV over APRS
[04:39] <kf7fer> now that will get some folks in a tizzy I bet
[04:40] <kf7fer> I think it'd be cool
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[04:43] <kf7fer> BTW Bad Leo... 'Notes on the M0XER-3 and M0XER-6 APRS pages flag their reported trajectories with "Seriously bad path,"'
[04:44] <kf7fer> I think some people need a job :-)
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[05:54] <jcoxon> morning
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[07:42] <Tramvai> Good morning everyone. Quick question: is there a set length for the payload antenna radials?
[07:42] <Tramvai> The total length was marked at 350mm. but how far on each side should it extend?
[07:43] <Upu> what frequency ?
[07:43] <Tramvai> 434, as usual.
[07:44] <Upu> 1164mm
[07:44] <Upu> err
[07:44] <Upu> 164mm
[07:44] <Tramvai> I'm not referring to the radiating element (coaxial cable).
[07:44] <Tramvai> I mean the radials that create the ground plane.
[07:44] <Upu> neither am I
[07:44] <Tramvai> Oh. :D
[07:44] <Tramvai> Ah, thank you.
[07:44] <Upu> !wiki antenna
[07:44] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03payloadantenna (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
[07:44] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03rc_antenna_cutdown (ideas) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:rc_antenna_cutdown
[07:44] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03antenna (projects:earthshine) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:earthshine:antenna
[07:45] <Tramvai> Thanks a lot Upu.
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[07:57] <Tramvai> Upu: Would a setup like this work? It is more rigid than just cables soldered together. https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ymgt9rp88yrxni/2014-08-30%2010.55.39.jpg?dl=0
[07:58] <Tramvai> Basically each wire is separate and it's locked into place with the screw. I'm sure you've seen those plastic modules before.
[07:58] <Tramvai> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3x2l2yvcxh1621w/2014-08-30%2010.55.49.jpg?dl=0
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[08:03] <mfa298> Tramvai: soldering will generally give you a much better connection especially for RF
[08:04] <Tramvai> So, the setup is bad?
[08:04] <mfa298> you can make the antenna more rigid by fixing the wires to the bottom of the payload box or by choosing suitable wire
[08:05] <Tramvai> This is a receiving antenna.
[08:05] <mfa298> Personally I'd say trying to make a decent antenna like that will be more faff than soldering.
[08:06] <Tramvai> Alright.
[08:06] <mfa298> you make the antenna rigid by attaching it to something or using more suitable wire
[08:07] <mfa298> this is what I use https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2lxozaoyo19guq/2013-07-27%2016.55.45.jpg?dl=0
[08:07] <Tramvai> Okay, I also have the option to solder the pieces together in there.
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[08:08] <mfa298> and a close up for the centre https://www.dropbox.com/s/qrnsgnglptx0b37/2013-07-28%2016.26.25.jpg?dl=0
[08:08] <Tramvai> Oh. That's nice.
[08:08] <mfa298> I'm actually thinking of building an alternative with a piece of plastic waste pipe.
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[08:36] <Scott85_> good morning
[08:37] <Scott85_> does anybody know if the protocol for the ublox max7 is different to the max6?
[08:39] <Scott85_> I've got a max7 but the example I'm looking at is for a max6 and I'm not getting a response when flight mode is set
[08:47] <Scott85_> never mind, I've found the documentation, it's actually pretty understandable so will try some things
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[09:34] <tweetBot1> @AMSAT_UK: Live Webcast of Electromagnetic Field #EMF 2014 event Bletchley, Milton Keynes http://t.co/QCafhYzPha #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas @emfcamp
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[09:41] <F1VJQ> B-64 picked upa again on APRS into Alaska and shortly Canada
[09:42] <F1VJQ> B-64 reappeared on APRS at 00:46 today
[09:43] <andyfletcher> It going to circumnavigate the globe for ever
[09:44] <F1VJQ> it could realistically make a third circumnavigation!
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[09:46] <andyfletcher> Hysplit shows it going the right way
[09:48] <andyfletcher> Wonder how many times it has to go round before mobile tracker falls over in a heap
[09:49] <mfa298> there's been a range of fixes on most of the tracking websites already to help them cope with the B Balloons
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[09:54] <F1VJQ> !payload B-64
[09:54] <SpacenearUS> 03F1VJQ: Payload 03B-64 10(3afe) - 03434.5 MHz USB 03DominoEX with speed 0316
[09:55] <F1VJQ> !flight b-64
[09:55] <SpacenearUS> 03F1VJQ: Flight 10(3afe): 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(1 payload) - Launch date 03Tomorrow at 07:00 from 03Northamptonshire, UK 10(52.09598,-1.02228)
[09:55] <F1VJQ> Ah... that's wrong!!
[09:55] <F1VJQ> !whereis b-64
[09:55] <SpacenearUS> 03F1VJQ: 03B-64 is over 03Kenai Peninsula Borough, AK, USA 10(61.0755,-150.5961) at 0312059 meters
[09:56] <mfa298> I'd assume someone has created a new flgiht doc as the previous one is about to expire
[09:56] <F1VJQ> needs rethink - a flight lasts as long as it lasts
[09:56] <F1VJQ> extend the end date not create another?
[09:57] <mfa298> the group that can approve new docs is larger than the group that can edit them and it's also much easier to create new ones.
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[09:58] <mfa298> agreed extending it would be more useful but that may not be so easy at present.
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[10:00] <F1VJQ> for floaters the end date needs a rethink, since 8 weeks isn't enough for these new B-6* flights
[10:00] <daveake> end_date = NULL should do it
[10:01] <F1VJQ> is an end date really needed at all for pico flights?
[10:02] <F1VJQ> I can understand a date range where a notam is involved
[10:02] <F1VJQ> daveake that would have been useful on the original doc
[10:04] <mfa298> I suspect it's a bit more involved than that unless we want the dl-fldigi list to be filled with all floaters (because they might just re-appear)
[10:05] <F1VJQ> shouldn't be.... if an end date can be moved on a week at a time...
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[10:05] <F1VJQ> or nulled if still in the air as expiry date approaches
[10:06] <mfa298> currently it can be extended, you just need to find someone from the group of around 3 who can do it when they've got time to do it.
[10:07] <F1VJQ> assuming everyone knows who they are!
[10:07] <mfa298> no doubt when habitat gets re-written that's something that will be looked at (or is being looked at already)
[10:08] <F1VJQ> hope so... Leo's pushed the boundaries further than could ever have been thought possible
[10:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LW2DTZ - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=LW2DTZ
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[11:02] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon from EMF camp!
[11:02] <chrisstubbs> Planning a launch at about 3 PM
[11:03] <mfa298> is that going to include a ukhasnet node ?
[11:04] <fsphil> you win at hostnames today chrisstubbs
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[11:08] <gonzo__> I'll power up, assuming 434 wsill be flying too
[11:09] <daveake> It is -see mailinglist
[11:09] <mfa298> mailingl list says Payload name: EMF1
[11:09] <mfa298> 7 bit ASCII, 2 stop bits, 1 start bit, no parity, 50 baud, ~450Hz shift, ~434.290MHz
[11:11] <mfa298> I was just wondering if there was going to be a ukhasnet node as well as there was talk of trying to send one up over the weekend. (I might have to try and get the #ukhasnet bot doing more stuff if one goes up.
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[11:13] <mfa298> fsphil: I'm guessing someone involved in setting up EMF has the gchq.org.uk domain seeing jcoxon is coming from an address like that as well.
[11:14] <fsphil> yea thought so
[11:14] <mfa298> just have to hope everyone at EMF has a good firewall on their laptop as from the Blog I think they all have real addresses and no firewalls, and impressive bandwidth
[11:15] <mfa298> lolz, I just did a whois on gchq.org.uk
[11:16] <fsphil> hah
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[11:19] <Darkside> mikestir_: haha wat
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[11:19] <Darkside> oh, .org.au
[11:19] <Darkside> org.uk*
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[11:20] <chrisstubbs> I think we might be launching a node on a 100g tomorrow
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[11:20] <chrisstubbs> lol what is my hostname, my terrrible client wont tell me
[11:20] <mfa298> [chrisstubb@angrypirate-quantuminsert.gchq.org.uk]
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[11:21] <mfa298> you should just be able to look at your ip address in which ever OS your on and do an nslookup
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[11:22] <JP_> Hi guys what would be the best way to connect an AR5000 to a computer?
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[11:23] <mfa298> JP_: that's likely to depend on what connectors it's got
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[11:24] <JP_> well its got an acc1 port, R232
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[11:24] <JP_> Looking online there are cables for the R232
[11:25] <mfa298> for balloon decoding you need to get audio into the computer you might be able to get that from the acc port on the back
[11:25] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[11:26] <JP_> Aha, I'll have a look
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[11:28] <mfa298> you may also be able to connect the rs232 connection to a serial port on the computer and get dl-fldigi to talk to the radio via hamlib or rigcat which will allow dl-fldigi to do some frequency adjustments for very drifty payloads
[11:29] <JP_> ah I see
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[11:29] <JP_> I found this lead: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/4256.html
[11:31] <JP_> I don't know about this: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/4256.html since it have both a 2.5mm and 3.5mm jack
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[11:40] <JP_> Where should I look for an 8-pin MiniDin to a 3.5mm jack?
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[11:48] <mfa298> JP_: in the UK try maplin, rs, cpc, farnel, ebay depending on how soon you want it, what you want to pay and the quality of what you might get.
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[11:52] <JP_> mfa298 I've found this plug: http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-mini-din-8-pin-plug-jx06g but I have no idea what the other end is? I can't find another 8 mini din
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[11:52] <mfa298> sold like that it's probably just a plug so you need to solder wires onto it inside
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[12:10] <JP_> My reciever AR5000 has a 6.3mm headphone jack, can I use that with dl-fldigi as an output?
[12:11] <mfa298> you could use that as well but you may have to unplug it to tune.
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[12:12] <mfa298> that's possibly the way to start. If you're then up to soldering up a suitable cable using the acc port will probably give a fixed level output (so adjusting the volume won't impact decoding) and you can listen to the rtty at the same time
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[12:32] <JP_> ah Ok thank you very much mfa298
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[12:38] <F1VJQ> mfa298 do you know if there is a "replay" facility in SNUS? I'd like to look at the path of B-63 which has gone off map
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[12:41] <mfa298> you should be able to get the data from http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[12:42] <SpeedEvil> If B63 pops up again - will new data be added to the map automatically - or does it need manual intervention?
[12:42] <Upu> F1VJQ http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-63/index.html
[12:42] <Upu> it will appear
[12:42] <Upu> historical data won't
[12:42] <Upu> afaik we've never replayed data back but in theory its possible
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[12:43] <mfa298> although at over 3 weeks with no data it the chances of seeing it again seem pretty slim
[12:43] <F1VJQ> Upu Thanks
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[12:43] <SpeedEvil> Oooh. I hadn't seen B64 is back
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> Closing fast on50 days
[12:44] <F1VJQ> My ? really was : Can we query old flights....B-63 is there only because Leo thought to screenshot it!
[12:44] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil and height, temp, volts all looking typical still
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[12:45] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil If B-63 pops up again I will REALLY be surprised!! I would like to see it as a continuous flight though
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[12:46] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: There are many trajectories which could have had it screwing around the middle of the ocean
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> its likely to have descended due to icing
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[12:46] <SpeedEvil> But it's probably more likely to have cme down
[12:46] <F1VJQ> UPU I'm guessing that SNUS relies on a flight doc, rather than just a set of datapoints?
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Or the transmitter died
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> there is a 1/60 chance per day of icing
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> or that
[12:47] <Upu> data is in habitat which is pushed into the tracker psql database
[12:47] <Upu> the trackers (snus & mt) use this database to display
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: why doesn't icing - if it happens in an environment with warm temperatures underneath- reverse?
[12:47] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil TX or battery...either could have died... punishing temps in the Arctic
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> Or are going through clouds an issue
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: due to moisture
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> yes
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[12:48] <Laurenceb__> it descends into moist air
[12:48] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: Well - it atleast can cope - one 64 actually crossed thepole
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> this from ghost data
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[12:48] <Laurenceb__> they had accumulated flight time of ~40years at 12km
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> Oh. Moist air is less dense, isn't it
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> yeah
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[12:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EMF1 - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=EMF1
[12:50] <Laurenceb__> so there is 50% chance of icing in the first 42days
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[12:51] bombd (bombd@87.108.59.136) got lost in the net-split.
[12:51] db_g6gzh (~db@gresley.dbrooke.me.uk) got lost in the net-split.
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> as the mean flight time before icing induced decent was 60days
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> rather confusing maths
[12:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:02] <Laurenceb__> http://www.flyingkettle.com/
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[13:03] <Laurenceb__> ^talking of moisture
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[13:07] Nick change: slubber -> slobber
[13:07] <Laurenceb__> the good news is that risk of icing decreases exponentially with altitude
[13:08] <Laurenceb__> ghost at ~16km accumulated a few decades of cumulative flight time, with no definitive icing seen
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[13:08] <Laurenceb__> electronics failure and UV damage were the limiting factors
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[13:19] <fsphil> seems #ha has it's own village as emfcamp
[13:19] <fsphil> -'
[13:21] <Upu> did you not see Adam's sign?
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[13:55] <fsphil> Upu: saw a pic of the grid one installed. the other one was for emf too?
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[13:57] <Laurenceb__> dawn at B-64
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> Does she have a telescope?
[14:01] <chrisg7ogx> SpeedEvil behave now..
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[14:01] <chrisg7ogx> emf 1 launched
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[14:05] <mfa298> I thought balloons were supposed to go up when you launch them. that altitude plot seems to be upside down if I thought correctly
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[14:06] <SpeedEvil> Depends what you put in them.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> I don't think the calculator works properly for neutronium though
[14:08] <fsphil> heh
[14:08] <mfa298> its as if this one is filled with a lot of hot air (which I'm assuming is CO2)
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[14:09] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[14:09] <fsphil> ah just down the road from Bletchley
[14:13] Action: mfa298 wonders if this is the first time 6 different receivers have picked up the balloon betfore it's gone above 200m
[14:18] Nick change: jonsowman -> M0JSN
[14:18] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
[14:19] <MaXimaN_> Smooth launch of EMF-1
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[14:20] <MaXimaN_> Lots of interest
[14:20] <fsphil> foil balloon?
[14:21] <MaXimaN_> Yep
[14:22] Nick change: MaXimaN_ -> MaXimaN
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[14:22] <Upu> !flights
[14:22] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Current flights: 03B-63 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(bc59), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b), 03EMF1 10(ac03), 03PS-19 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(ea6f)
[14:22] <MaXimaN> Will probably be a while before I can see it on my FCDP+ in Croydon
[14:23] <Upu> !track EMF1
[14:23] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Here you go - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=EMF1
[14:23] <MaXimaN> Tuned in but can't see anything on the waterfall
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[14:24] <Ron_G8FJG> .2925 but very weak ..unusual, like v low power or antenna damaged
[14:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EMF1_20140830/
[14:26] <jcoxon> balloon launch
[14:26] <jcoxon> yeah its a bit quiet
[14:26] <Ron_G8FJG> difficult to track drift
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[14:28] <Ron_G8FJG> greens 434.292800 750 centre
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[14:32] <MaXimaN> Still nothing here
[14:32] <M0ZBU> Anyone know the Tx of EMC1?
[14:33] <mikestir_> chrisstubbs said it was one of his cheapo trackers, so rfm22?
[14:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> EMF1 just above 434.29 but weak
[14:34] <MaXimaN> yes, rfm22 I think
[14:34] <Ron_G8FJG> its now 434.292500 for 1khz centre ...freq drift ok now
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[14:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> !track EMF1
[14:36] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Here you go - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=EMF1
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[14:38] <MaXimaN> Still nothing down in Croydon...
[14:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Needs to get to 4Km for me to hear it over the Downs
[14:38] <G0HDI> Or Nr Southampton
[14:40] <Ron_G8FJG> signal at least 20db down
[14:40] <MaXimaN> 1M/sec means it could take some time :)
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[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hopefully planned to be a floater ...
[14:41] <MaXimaN> Yep.
[14:41] <MaXimaN> Battery good for around 20hr
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[14:53] <MaXimaN> Alas, still nothing yet
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[14:54] <G0HDI> Nope!
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[14:54] <fsphil> another ddos attach :/
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[15:00] <MaXimaN> Geoff-G8DHE: Are you using your yagi?
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[15:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed
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[15:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> but the South Downs to the North of me block everything until at that range it reaches 4.01Km
[15:03] <MaXimaN> Better ascent rate now
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[15:06] <M0ZBU> Can detect E1 on 435.295 but drifting. Any thoughts on what mode is being transmitted?
[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> !flight EMF1
[15:07] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Flight 10(ac03): 03EMF1 10(1 payload) - Launch date 03Last Thursday at 23:00 from 03Buckinghamshire, UK 10(51.96712,-0.79455)
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[15:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> !payload EMF1
[15:07] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Payload 03EMF1 10(ac03) - 03434.29 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/450Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[15:08] <Ron_G8FJG> shift is up to 480 now
[15:10] <Ron_G8FJG> off to do saturday curry ..afk bbl
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[15:16] KingJ (~kj@nessa.kingj.net) got lost in the net-split.
[15:16] CCFL_Man_ (343fa848e5@pool-71-161-242-245.sctnpa.east.verizon.net) got lost in the net-split.
[15:16] <tweetBot1> @G8DHE: HAB UPDATE: EMF1 flying track http://t.co/UjzatpQkBB #ukhas #hamr #hab #emf #emfcamp
[15:23] <Laurenceb__> is EMF1 a latex floater?
[15:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> I believe so
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[15:24] <M0ZBU> Thanks for EMF1 info - just had a successful decode,
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[15:26] <fsphil> ascent looks more foil
[15:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> It was reffered to as a 100g earlier
[15:27] Nick change: gurgalof_ -> gurgalof
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[15:29] <mfa298> I think the 100g might be tomorrow
[15:30] <mfa298> MaXimaN said this was a foil and I assume he's there so saw it go up
[15:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could be
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[15:31] <MaXimaN> okay
[15:31] <MaXimaN> Receiving now
[15:32] <MaXimaN> No greens yet
[15:32] <MaXimaN> Ironically couldn't connect to my home PC from HABville, but now can from my tent :)
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[15:34] <number10> I can barely hear it here - within green circle
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[15:35] <MaXimaN> Yeah, its vvery weak here
[15:36] <MaXimaN> Only just above the noise
[15:36] <MaXimaN> Although I cannot hear anything as I connecting remotely
[15:36] <G0HDI> Moving East away from me. If it doesn't climb pretty rapid soon I think I'm going to lose his one *sigh*
[15:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah something beginning to appear on the w/f
[15:43] <fsphil> I am horizonally challanged
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[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just starting to get over my horizon but the climb rate is falling off.....
[15:48] <MaXimaN> $$$$EMFs5P,5008|<1,1p.R|)23 -Y31ql9,a|V.4Z.q@D4v
[15:48] <MaXimaN> Signal getting even weaker for me now
[15:48] <MaXimaN> :(
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[15:55] <M0ZBU> Elevation of EMF1 is 34 deg from here!
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[15:56] <F1VJQ> !whereis EMF1
[15:56] <SpacenearUS> 03F1VJQ: 03EMF1 is over 03Essex, UK 10(51.781078,0.51283) at 035193 meters
[15:57] <F1VJQ> chrisstubbs you must have a homing device on EMF1
[15:59] <F1VJQ> Hatfield Peverel at the mo
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[16:00] <F1VJQ> !launch EMF1
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[16:12] <G0HDI> Oh well got to go. Win some lose some.Blue footprint shrinking as EMF1 drifts East. Happy HABing guys. Bye!!
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> 73's
[16:13] <F1VJQ> G0HDI Bye
[16:13] <G0HDI> 73
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[16:31] <maxmed> Does anyone know the exact frequency of EMF1 at the moment?
[16:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.290.557 on my dial
[16:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> center
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[16:34] <Ron_G8FJG> back for a few mins 434.293000 for 1 khz centre
[16:35] <craag_philcrump> afternoon all from emf :)
[16:35] <Ron_G8FJG> bbl
[16:36] <maxmed> I get something at 434.291.8 with a shift of about 410 but just get gobbledygook
[16:37] <number10> afternoon craag_philcrump
[16:37] <F1VJQ> So that's anywhere between 290 and 293....should be enough to find it!!
[16:37] <number10> looks like weather will be kind to you this weekend
[16:38] <F1VJQ> maxmed are you seeing the two "tones"?
[16:39] <maxmed> Yes
[16:39] <MaXimaN> craag_philcrump: Wasn't able to receive a clear enough signal from my home in Croydon.
[16:39] <MaXimaN> craag_philcrump: Go a couple of partial decodes
[16:39] <craag_philcrump> Cool :)
[16:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Visble on the w/f but no sensible decodes from Worthing
[16:40] <F1VJQ> maxmed Have you done OpMode/RTTY/Custom and changed receive filter bandwidth to much wider than 68?
[16:43] <maxmed> Yeah I set it to 150 receiver bandwidth, 50 baud, 7 ascii, no parity and 2 stop bits
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[16:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EMF1_20140830/
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[16:44] <maxmed_> Tracker keeps making my browser crash!
[16:45] <F1VJQ> maxmed and are both of the red bars above the two tones?
[16:45] <F1VJQ> maxmed is that spacenear.us or another?
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[16:47] <maxmed_> Yeah the red bars are above the tones, listening directly to the audio from the radio it's not that clear though but I am reasonably far away. That's using the habitat mobile tracker
[16:48] <F1VJQ> Maxmed OK - where on the map?
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[16:50] <F1VJQ> Oh I see you ... that is not far away!!
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[16:50] <maxmed> I'm in Tonbridge, just North of tunbridge wells
[16:50] <F1VJQ> Tonbridge area isn't far from the balloon
[16:51] <F1VJQ> It's north of Margate at the moment
[16:52] <maxmed> Depends what you consider "far" I guess but yeah I think I should be able to track it from here
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[16:53] <F1VJQ> maxmed "far" is near to the blue circle!!
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[16:54] <maxmed> Ah ok then, what's the green circle?
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> 5 degree elevation
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[16:58] <maxmed> Heres a screenshot: http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii593/maxmedhurst/screenshot.png can you tell what's wrong?
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[16:59] <Ron_G8FJG> all the filters in now .I suspect only about 1mw o/p...going to lose soon and nowhere near blue line.. good test of rx system!
[17:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> maxmed, Can you close the config window its hiding several important icons
[17:00] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed ..your shift should be 480 hz
[17:00] <F1VJQ> maxmed looks like you have a "birdie" close to left tone... that could affect it. you can widen filter even more than you have it
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[17:05] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed your filter is too wide set to 2.8khz or less
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[17:07] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed I'm using 1khz wide and a filter between mark space...
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[17:08] <maxmed> http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii593/maxmedhurst/screenshot2.png The spacing changes when I change the frequency I'm listening to, the tones move further apart then 'bounce' off the edges of the waterfall coming back together again so I get what looks like a good waterfall at various frequencies, I don't know which is the right one. Ron_G8FJG do you mean the reive filter bandwidth?
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[17:08] <realflash> Is anyone receiving EMF1 and able to tell me the frequency it is currently on?
[17:08] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed ...yes rx filter
[17:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> You have the Squlch on, not good, turn it off also too much audio level the diamond has turned RED it should be green
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[17:09] <Ron_G8FJG> 434.293000 ...for 1.2 khz centre
[17:11] <realflash> Thanks. Nothing heard. I must be too late.
[17:11] <maxmed> You mean the sqlch on the radio, I have it turned what I would consider all the way off but maybe that's all the way on, when I turn it the other way the waterfall goes black/blue
[17:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> !payload EMF1
[17:11] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Payload 03EMF1 10(ac03) - 03434.29 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/450Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[17:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> maxmed, No the squelch in dl-fldigi foar right lower button
[17:12] <realflash> I hear it, but just as a constant tone
[17:12] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
[17:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> the Diamond symbol next to AFC shows that you are overlaoding the audio level it should be green, turn down the audio to the computer
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[17:14] <chrisstubbs> yo
[17:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> The squelch level in dl-fldigi is the slider lower right side, it is set low, but still best to use switch to turn it off.
[17:14] <chrisstubbs> how has the signal from EMF1 been? A little lower than usual?
[17:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> rather lower level than the norma;
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[17:16] <Ron_G8FJG> at least 20db...antenna fallen off?
[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> also may help to select Docked Scope and then click the Scope for the preffered display, I normally have the "eye" display as it helps to spot problems
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[17:19] <DutchMillbt> Hi All what is the freq. for EMF1?
[17:19] <maxmed> How do I select eye display?
[17:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Click the Scope itself
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[17:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> it will show either the normal audio waveform or the eye pattern
[17:20] <F1VJQ> <Ron_G8FJG> 434.293000 ...for 1.2 khz centre
[17:20] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed ... just realised what you meant ...set rx filter bandwidth to "auto" ...should come out as 68 hz
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[17:20] <DutchMillbt> Oke thankz F1VJQ
[17:22] <maxmed> Sorry to sound stupid but where/what is the scope?
[17:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> The scope will appear when docked in lower right corner to the right of the w/f
[17:22] <Ron_G8FJG> View... docked scope
[17:24] <DutchMillbt> Just a weak signal here ...
[17:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> maxmed http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/dl-fldigi_screen.JPG
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[17:26] <maxmed> http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii593/maxmedhurst/screenshot3.png
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[17:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yea that should help now thatthe audio levelis not overloading, you often find you also want to play with the waterfull colours
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[17:28] <maxmed> Is the shift set in stone or should I change it to match the signal I'm receiving?
[17:28] <F1VJQ> Geoff-G8DHE the filter set narrow isn't catching the tone on the right
[17:29] <F1VJQ> maxmed adjust it to what you receive
[17:29] <Ron_G8FJG> I change to suit signal
[17:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> The two lines are pretty good but the recieve filter bandwidth could be set wider
[17:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> F1VJQ ?
[17:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> my screen or maxmed screen ?
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[17:32] <Ron_G8FJG> only reds now ....ele 1.5 ..nornally decode to 0.0here
[17:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> maxmed, you need to set the shift to whatever is being sent, it will also vary with temperature on balloon flights quite often so
[17:32] mauhen (521f85f2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.31.133.242) joined #highaltitude.
[17:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> if it gets to far from what is being sent then adjust in dl-fldigi
[17:38] <Ron_G8FJG> a green at 5db over noise... just love sdr filters
[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> EMF1 sinking http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EMF1_20140830/index.php?ind=7
[17:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> right food is on the able AFK
[17:39] <maxmed> Still nor getting anything, the shift keeps changing but don't think that the problem
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[17:48] <SA6BSS> http://www.sat24.com/?ir=true seems to be heavy clouds / rain at EMF1 location
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[17:52] <PE2G> SA6BSS: Yeah, according to the Essen 12Z sounding, the zero degree C level is at ~2400 m and according to Camborne 12Z at ~1300 m. Maybe descent will stop there.
[17:53] <SA6BSS> yeah, hopefully!
[17:53] Nick change: zyp_ -> zyp
[17:54] <PE2G> SA6BSS: All hope is not lost yet :)
[17:55] <Ron_G8FJG> still greens , bearly above noise now, 600hhz filter .. with a triple notch inside mark/space....need a bigger antenna!
[17:57] <gb73dx> I rem going to TANDY
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[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:58] <PE2G> Ron_G8FJG: How far above the horizon is EMF for you?
[17:59] <Ron_G8FJG> 0.5
[17:59] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[18:00] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> speedevil
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[18:01] <PE2G> Ron_G8FJG: Not bad at all to have greens at that low elev.
[18:04] <maxmed> Still nothing: http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii593/maxmedhurst/screenshot4.png
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[18:08] <Ron_G8FJG> maxmed ..there is something wrong, your shift is shown as 441 and is too wide but the signal is 480 wide! are you on the actual ballon qrg?
[18:08] <Ron_G8FJG> qrg = frequency
[18:08] <fsphil> naturally :)
[18:08] <fsphil> q codes are so odd
[18:09] <Ron_G8FJG> I'm older than that
[18:09] <Ron_G8FJG> son
[18:09] <ulfr_> Older than q codes?
[18:09] <ulfr_> that's quite old...
[18:09] <Ron_G8FJG> cant read now eyes have gone too
[18:09] <gb73dx> q codes are so good and so are Z codes
[18:10] <ulfr_> I agree.
[18:10] <Ron_G8FJG> can we be bff's
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[18:11] <Ron_G8FJG> anyway lost the plot and the signal..just a burble...the signal that is
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[18:14] <PE2BZ> In jo21cx I do hear very weak signal, 434.292.8 center around 1 kHz, 450 shift but no readable packets yet
[18:15] <Ron_G8FJG> pe2bz try 480 shift
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[18:16] <CopyRight> :)
[18:17] <pd7r> !payload EMF1
[18:17] <SpacenearUS> 03pd7r: Payload 03EMF1 10(ac03) - 03434.29 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/450Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[18:17] <JP_> What's the best way to receive a signal on my receiver since I don't have an aerial, but need to do tests?
[18:18] <mikestir_> if you're just testing on the bench you'll receive it on a piece of wire, or even no antenna at all
[18:18] <PE2BZ> Ron_G8FJG Audio is almost unnoticeable. At 480 shift the AFC locks to the weak signal better.
[18:19] <JP_> Ah ok, is making a Yagi DIY worth it or is it a waste of time?
[18:20] <laurenceS> Hi guys. EMF1 is exciting, wish I went! Quick question - what is/are the thinking/rules regarding mylar pico balloons and regulations etc?
[18:20] <Ron_G8FJG> yagi gives massive advantage.....but you have to aim it
[18:21] <JP_> I'm looking for a low-cost antenna solution? yagi the best?
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[18:21] <Ron_G8FJG> if just testing...dont use an antenna ... too easy to overload
[18:22] <PE2BZ> <JP> horizontal or vertical ?
[18:22] <PE2BZ> <JP> Single frequency band or multi band ?
[18:22] <mikestir_> laurenceS: you can launch without permission as long as the whole thing fits inside a 2m by 2m by 2m cube for the whole duration of the flight
[18:22] Nick change: mikestir_ -> mikestir
[18:23] <laurenceS> That's great. Do you know where that rule is so I can quote it? Cheers
[18:23] <mikestir> it's in the caa regs under "small balloons"
[18:23] <JP_> PE2BZ I don't know what you're trying to ask me? It's for HAB
[18:23] <laurenceS> Ah, I missed it. Thanks again
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[18:25] <PE2BZ> <JP> that would mean a vertical antenna for a single frequency (434 MHz center). You can make a Yagi with a wooden carrier quite easy. If you have nothing at all I would start with a groundplane. Place the antenna as high as possible but use low loss coax if length >> 30 feet
[18:27] <Ron_G8FJG> jp ...http://www.g0ksc.co.uk/18el-432mhz-lfa-yagi.html just as an example 18dbi gain....enough to blow your socks off...BUT nearly 5mtr long :-(... lots of others on web..coax very impotant...depends how serious you are
[18:28] <JP_> ah ok....
[18:28] <JP_> Is there a recommended guide for making one?
[18:28] <JP_> Not a big one though...
[18:29] <PE2BZ> Ron_G8FJG signal is improving !
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[18:30] <PE2BZ> Ron_G8FJG frequency 434.292.3 with 1200 Hz center
[18:30] <JP_> How should I stick my coat hanger into the antenna port just for testbench?
[18:30] <Ron_G8FJG> $1000000 dollar question.. google is your friend,,,short 70cms yagi?
[18:30] <mikestir> JP_: there is a free windows program called "yagi calculator" which will give you dimensions for a yagi
[18:31] <mikestir> I've built a lightweight 7 element one out of welding rods and plastic conduit
[18:31] <mikestir> works very well
[18:32] <mikestir> JP_: http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/IMG_20130618_075407.jpg
[18:32] <JP_> hmmmm ok.
[18:33] <JP_> So I'd need steel rods a frame and some coax cable...
[18:33] <mikestir> a vertical is sufficient for tracking most flights, but if you're chasing then a portable yagi is worth having in case you need to DF the signal, e.g. if the GPS fails or it's too weak to decode
[18:34] <mikestir> the welding rods I used are TIG rods, which I think are an aluminium/magnesium alloy. they're similar to aluminium to work with but don't bend as easily
[18:34] <mikestir> a box of about 50 1m lengths was about 15 quid off ebay
[18:35] <Ron_G8FJG> this site is good http://www.qsl.net/dk7zb/start1.htm
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[18:36] <JP_> what's in the box thing? Will I need other specialist things?
[18:38] <Ron_G8FJG> thats the box to keep the coax / element connections dry.....I dont bother with that.. just let it dry out..can be more bother than its worth...
[18:39] <Ron_G8FJG> got to go and hide behind the sofa,,,,73
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[18:40] <JP_> Uh huh, this is all going a bit over my head... Should this be fine for HAB (tracking) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/70cm-7-ELEMENT-SPECIAL-YAGI-ANTENNA-430-440MHz-/301168643415?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
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[18:57] <SA6BSS> EMF1: 2841m climbing :)
[18:58] <bertrik> I saw no trace of it yet on our receiver in the hague, netherlands
[18:59] <pd7r> I cannot get it either in the centre of the netherlands
[19:01] <Rebounder> evening!
[19:04] <mfa298> JP_: for tracking from home a vertical is probably a better place to start. For the last bit of chasing you can probably find a Yagi that's cheaper (although that looks to be a decent yagi, better than some of the cheaper ones)
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[19:08] Nick change: PE0SAT_ -> PE0SAT
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[19:09] <x-f> hi, Rebounder, did you see me hilighting you?
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[19:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Lw2dtz_chase - 12http://habhub.org/mt/?filter=Lw2dtz_chase
[19:10] <JP_> mfa298 ok so a vertical one
[19:11] <PE0SAT> c
[19:11] <lz1dev> !whereis b-64
[19:11] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03B-64 was over 03Yakutat, AK, USA 10(60.0365,-139.8832) at 0312117 meters about 039 minutes ago
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[19:20] <mikestir> JP_: something like a diamond X30 or one of the equivalents (watson/moonraker)
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[19:27] <JP_> mikestir the vertical will be better than this: http://www.moonraker.eu/amateur-radio-1/beam-and-yagi-antennas/zl-special-yagi-antenna/zl7-70-70cm-7-element-special-yagi-antenna ? This one is way cheaper
[19:28] <Rebounder> wow...b64..
[19:30] <mikestir> JP_: depends what you want to do with it. the yagi will give you some gain over a vertical, but only in the direction in which you point it
[19:30] <mfa298> JP_: for home use the problem with Yagi antennas is that they're directional, so when it's up high you need a way to turn it
[19:30] <mikestir> so for home use, unless you have an antenna rotator, a vertical is more convenient
[19:30] <mikestir> but the yagi is good for chasing
[19:31] Action: Rebounder has a yagi pointing at the normal autobahn from uk. :)
[19:31] <JP_> Hmm See I will pretty much just use it to chase
[19:32] <mfa298> for chasing you'll also want something like the watson wsm-270 (2/70 mag mount antenna to go on top the car)
[19:32] <mikestir> you really need a couple of different antennas. for chasing I use a little micro mag-mount vertical on the car, and that 7 ele yagi for on foot
[19:32] <mikestir> snap mfa298
[19:33] <mfa298> but I'd highly recommend tracking some other flights from home first so you learn for the hardware and software works
[19:35] <JP_> Yeah I've got a basic rig with my pc but no 'real' antenna
[19:35] <JP_> is there something I can tune into now? is there something over london?
[19:36] <mfa298> depends a bit on what antenna you have and where it is
[19:36] <mikestir> it's probably gone by now
[19:36] <mikestir> if you'd have asked a couple of hours ago...
[19:36] <mfa298> with something reasonable in an ok position you ought to hear something on airband (not balloons but tests the radio)
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[19:37] <JP_> its OK
[19:37] <JP_> but We'll see
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[19:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Isnnt there another flight t
[19:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> tomorrow from EMF
[19:40] <mfa298> I think there might be.
[19:41] <mfa298> JP_: if you've got some bits of wire and some coax you could make something based on this which should receive a balloon if you can get it outside and with a good view of the sky http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
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[19:41] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
[19:44] <JP_> mfa298 unfortunatly no coax to hand, I think I may order one of those mini antennas and use that
[19:46] <mfa298> whilst it's not always the cheapest option there's always the local maplin store in the morning
[19:46] <mikestir> make sure they don't try to sell you the wrong type of coax, or an inflatable santa
[19:47] <JP_> wrong type? what type do I need?
[19:47] <mfa298> you want RG58 or RG213 (RG58 is ok for a few meters and easier to work with)
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[19:51] <JP_> ok thanks
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[19:52] <maxmed> I know I have asked this before but I have lost the information :( who do I contact to get permission to launch from the Churchill site? Does anyone have the email address?
[19:53] <mfa298> this is what I use from home https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2lxozaoyo19guq/2013-07-27%2016.55.45.jpg?dl=0 same design as the payload antenna I linked above but with a bit of extra support
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[19:54] <JP_> so its a beefer version of the payload one? that does fine?
[19:56] <mfa298> works well for me at home but I don't have anywhere to put a vertical
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[19:59] <mfa298> in general an antenna that's good for transmitting should also be good at receiving. The design used for the payload antenna is fairly basic but has all the right parts.
[20:00] <UpuFreenodesucks> maxmed you will need to contact the cusf guys
[20:00] <JP_> ah I see the princple
[20:00] <fsphil> it's strange that there are exceptions to that rule
[20:00] <UpuFreenodesucks> why does it keep defaulting to this damn nickname
[20:01] Nick change: Upu -> UpuWork
[20:01] Nick change: UpuFreenodesucks -> Upu
[20:01] <Upu> maxmed http://www.cusf.co.uk/contact/
[20:02] <JP_> Huh?
[20:03] <tweetBot1> @DutchMillbt: HighAltitudeBalloon EMF1 in the airpath -&gt;NL -&gt;BE-&gt;D #ukhas @434.293 MHz mod. SSB rtty we need hams #hamradio see: http://t.co/o7qed2oj2r
[20:04] <maxmed> Great thanks, finally found a day where it shouldn't end up in the sea!
[20:05] <JP_> Off to Belguim then?
[20:08] Nick change: LazyL-M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
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[20:41] <DutchMillbt> EMF1 is fading away ... have a nice weekend over there @EMF2014
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[20:47] <DL7AD> evening
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[20:50] Nick change: rmmm -> richardeoin
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[20:50] <lz1dev> !flight emf1
[20:50] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight 10(ac03): 03EMF1 10(1 payload) - Launch date 03Last Thursday at 23:00 from 03Buckinghamshire, UK 10(51.96712,-0.79455)
[20:50] <lz1dev> !window emf1
[20:50] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight window for 03EMF1 10(ac03) is from 03Last Thursday at 23:00 to 03Wednesday at 22:59
[20:50] <amell> B-64 going for a third lap of the planet? Gosh
[20:51] <lz1dev> so i guess emf1 is a float then
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[20:51] <amell> Emf1 launched on thurs? That doesn't seem right
[20:52] <lz1dev> that's what they've put
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[20:52] <lz1dev> !whereis emf1
[20:52] <mfa298> it was launched today and I think is a float but possibly not with batteries for that long (and it sounds like it's only a regular foil baloon, not a leo special)
[20:52] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03EMF1 was over 03East Flanders, Belgium 10(51.32341,4.23829) at 032030 meters about 0329 minutes ago
[20:52] <lz1dev> seems bit low on altitude
[20:53] <lz1dev> east flanders
[20:53] <lz1dev> *giggles*
[20:53] <mfa298> I don't remember that character from the Simpsons
[20:54] <lz1dev> ping timeout
[20:54] <lz1dev> RIP :(
[20:54] <amell> Anyone know what max is wanting to launch - is it a pico 100g?
[20:54] <lz1dev> !flights
[20:54] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Current flights: 03B-63 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(bc59), 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe), 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b), 03EMF1 10(ac03), 03PS-19 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(ea6f)
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[20:56] <amell> lz1dev: I thought b-63 was a scratch?
[20:56] <fsphil> still has a flight doc
[20:56] <lz1dev> should expire soon i think
[20:56] <lz1dev> !window b-63
[20:56] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight window for 03B-63 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(bc59) is from 0307/07/2014 to 03Today at 22:59
[20:57] <lz1dev> !window b-64
[20:57] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight window for 03B-64 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(3afe) is from 0311/07/2014 to 03Today at 22:59
[20:57] <lz1dev> erm
[20:57] <lz1dev> thats not good
[20:57] <fsphil> oops
[20:57] <lz1dev> !window b-66
[20:57] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Flight window for 03B-66 434.500 Contestia 64/1000 10(705b) is from 0314/07/2014 to 03Today at 22:59
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[21:10] <Laurenceb__> lolz
[21:10] <Laurenceb__> why is the mobile tracker giving me contact numbers for national park wardens
[21:10] <Laurenceb__> as B-64 flies over them
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[21:11] <lz1dev> wut
[21:11] <Laurenceb__> i think its an issue at my end :D
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> You clicked on the little tree
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[21:34] Nick change: molo_ -> molo
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[21:39] <MLow> i have a little bit of a direct question if anyone is willing/able to answer
[21:39] <MLow> in the US, how much does a launch cost, minus payload, consumables only
[21:40] <Upu> depends
[21:40] <Upu> on the size of the payload
[21:40] <Upu> the balloon you use
[21:40] <Upu> the gas you use
[21:40] <Upu> the parachute
[21:40] <Upu> etc
[21:40] <Upu> I'd stick my finger it the air and say $500
[21:40] <MLow> you consider the parachute as something that will be non-reusable?
[21:40] <Upu> well you may not get it back
[21:40] <Upu> if you get stuck up a tree
[21:41] <MLow> i wonder though, how common that is, probably pretty common
[21:41] <Upu> more common in the UK
[21:41] <MLow> but i have heard of groups getting permission on multiple occasions to simply fell the tree
[21:42] <MLow> colorado seems more and more an ideal launch location
[21:42] <MLow> but the challenges of the environment, the UK for example, seems to spur more creative payloads
[21:43] <MLow> geography even
[21:43] <Upu> we certainly end up being lighter most of the time as a result
[21:43] <Upu> lighter is good
[21:43] <Upu> less gas smaller balloon
[21:44] <MLow> shorter flight time though, except sometimes
[21:44] <Upu> well if you want it back
[21:44] <Upu> shorter is better
[21:44] <MLow> there was a guy in canada with success of sending a glider up that returns
[21:45] <MLow> sadly illegal though
[21:45] <Upu> yeah thats a UAV
[21:45] <MLow> it wasnt illegal in canada apparently though, dont know about if it is now
[21:46] <Upu> probably
[21:46] <MLow> yeah
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Fun fact.
[21:49] <MLow> over 10 years ago dang
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Dropping parachutes is legal - even guided ones
[21:50] <MLow> hmmmm
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Also - you know those little balloon sharks?
[21:51] <MLow> ya
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> You can't moor them at anywhere other than an airfield without the permission of the CAA.
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:51] <MLow> CAA?
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Civili aviation authority
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> That is - if it's classed as an airship - the definition of 'airship' is unclear - but the regulations on airships do apply to 'small balloons' - of under 2m - whichmakes little sense
[21:52] <MLow> so a steering parafoil would be legal?
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Yes. There are basically no rules on parachutes.
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Only the way they are launched
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> I.E. you can't let people jump out of your plane without the appropriate licence, or ...
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> However, there is no regulation for that about balloons. Of course, if the balloon is >2m in diameter, they can just refuse to grant permission
[21:55] <MLow> i was saving up money but it looks like i've got a ways to go
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[22:39] <kg7juw> can anyone point me in the direction of a how to manual for submitting a flight? apparently i need to create a document and make sure it parses and how to create the sentences for it
[22:40] <kg7juw> i'm launching a habduino in the morning from the US
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[22:43] <mfa298> kg7juw: first you need a payload doc and make sure the payload appears on the map, then you need to create a flight doc for the flight and get that approved, you can create both at http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
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[22:43] <kg7juw> yes i understand but creating the document is where im having an issue i dont know what to put in the box
[22:44] <ulfr_> Information.
[22:44] <ulfr_> :D
[22:44] <mfa298> got payload doc I think you should be able to paste in a decoded string and it will help you fill it out
[22:44] <lz1dev> kg7juw: is your tracker an APRS one?
[22:44] <kg7juw> i know what my values are that get broadcasted via rtty but what format does it want them in
[22:44] <kg7juw> its aprs and rtty
[22:45] <lz1dev> oh ok
[22:45] <kg7juw> so paste what comes out onto fldigi
[22:46] <kg7juw> its $$$$$calsign, lat, long , sats temp ect
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[22:46] <kg7juw> i tried to rtfm but i couldnt find it lol
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[22:46] <lz1dev> i think that should work
[22:47] <mfa298> how far through creating a payload doc have you got - most of it should be pretty obvious
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[22:47] <lz1dev> if you use the new format wizzard
[22:47] <kg7juw> must of missed that, when i was filling out the docs it was just an empty box ill revisit it
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[22:48] <lz1dev> the parser configuration section has a bunch of options
[22:48] <kg7juw> seems that not many people use spacenear.us from the us, it looks like an awesome setup and all the fun is being had elsewhere
[22:48] <kg7juw> ok yea then i had to miss something
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[22:49] <mfa298> most US people just seem to use APRS and miss out on the fun and innovation
[22:49] <kg7juw> set up my location as a monitor and then submitted the launch info
[22:49] <kg7juw> aprs is to busy anyway, i bought an arrow sat antenna for the chase car then want to relay it back out from a tethered cell phone
[22:50] <kg7juw> ritty is way more fun than a tnc and aprs
[22:50] <kg7juw> rtty*
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[22:58] <kg7juw> $$$$$KG7JUW-5,19,22:57:25,46.536057,-120.699798,447,8,82,2812,3,08*B372 does that look legit?
[23:00] <Laurenceb__> if you want to do round the world you will need aprs :D
[23:00] <gonzo_nb> the format looks ok.
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Or satellite
[23:00] <gonzo_nb> can't comment on the crc. Though, take care with online crc calcs. Found a lot of duff ones
[23:01] <ulfr_> well
[23:01] <ulfr_> if you're dissing aprs, then might as well go for something more sophisticated than rtty...
[23:02] <ulfr_> something with a nice error correction and whatnot.
[23:02] <gonzo_nb> the rtty is far more power efficient than the usual fm for aprs
[23:02] <lz1dev> might as well go CDMA
[23:02] <gonzo_nb> seill lots of improvements to be had
[23:03] <ulfr_> power efficient != robustness
[23:03] <lz1dev> aprs is anything but robust :)
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[23:04] <ulfr_> lz1dev: agreed
[23:04] <ulfr_> it's actually terrible.
[23:06] <kg7juw> aprs sucks around here
[23:06] <kg7juw> atleast the digis are horrible
[23:07] <kg7juw> i'm getting a Checksum invalid or type unrecognised. Tried xor crc16-ccitt fletcher-16 fletcher-16-256 error when i paste it in
[23:07] <gonzo_nb> improving the snr reduces the error rate, so goes some way to make it more robust
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[23:08] <gonzo_nb> agreed it is still primitive
[23:09] <lz1dev> kg7juw: try entering the sentence without $$$$
[23:09] <kg7juw> nice, thanks!
[23:10] <kg7juw> now to step 2
[23:10] <gonzo_nb> all between, but not including the $ and *
[23:13] <kg7juw> so ditch the * as well?
[23:14] <lz1dev> no
[23:14] <lz1dev> its fine, that's the separator for the checksum
[23:15] <lz1dev> wizard should then give you fields to play with
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[23:16] <JP_> mfa298 are you on, I have another question... sorry
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[23:26] <kg7juw> almost done, the string from the habduino has a field for an error status what should i say that is as a field? or should i remove that from the string?
[23:28] <JP_> How long should a radiating element be for 1/2 wave antenna?
[23:29] <lz1dev> kg7juw: you can put whatever naem you want
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[23:29] <lz1dev> you are not required to stick to the predefined list
[23:29] <lz1dev> name*
[23:33] <kg7juw> ok cool i wasnt sure if you had to
[23:33] <kg7juw> also in my string the 3 field im not sure what it is
[23:33] <kg7juw> it raises after a couple packets by 1
[23:34] <lz1dev> KG7JUW-5,19,22:57:25,46.536057,-120.699798,447,8,82,2812,3,08*B372
[23:34] <lz1dev> the 19 field?
[23:34] <kg7juw> looked in the arduino code and im not sure where its coming from. its thrown in there before the error code and after the battery field
[23:35] <kg7juw> no just the ,3 as in the value thats there
[23:35] <kg7juw> next to last string
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[23:36] <kg7juw> in these lines its 14
[23:36] <kg7juw> $$$$$KG7JUW-5,70,23:09:47,46.536016,-120.699756,463,7,83,2730,14,08*EE5A $$$$$KG7JUW-5,71,23:10:02,46.536018,-120.699752,461,7,82,2728,14,08*9BC5 $$$$$KG7JUW-5,72,23:10:17,46.536020,-120.699750,458,7,83,2718,14,08*FC0
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[23:37] <kg7juw> seems to be incremental every 5 lines received it goes up one
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[23:38] <kg7juw> can i call it potato?
[23:38] <kg7juw> lol
[23:40] <kg7juw> its like the count but only goes up in value after 5 lines
[23:40] <kg7juw> ohh wait maybe its the aprs attempts?
[23:40] <lz1dev> https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/4f761bcb3b1ebe6875d95b780ed67466d98a066d/Software/habduino/habduino.ino#L340-L357
[23:40] <kg7juw> i bet thats what it is since aprs goes less frequent
[23:41] <kg7juw> yea im looking at the sketch, would that be a safe assumption since im not a programmer and never played with arduino untill this week?
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[23:43] <lz1dev> kg7juw: its battaverage
[23:44] <lz1dev> according to the habdruino code
[23:44] <kg7juw> wierd im just thinking critically here its a 3v system and it increases the value?
[23:45] <kg7juw> that value shouldnt go up should it?
[23:45] <kg7juw> if anything it should drop with time id think i dunno
[23:45] <lz1dev> no idea
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[23:46] <lz1dev> wait maybe im not counting right
[23:46] <lz1dev> oh aprs_attempts
[23:46] <lz1dev> its aprs_attempts whatever that means
[23:47] <lz1dev> so 2718
[23:47] <lz1dev> is 2.718 volts
[23:47] <kg7juw> ok yea thats what i was thinking but this is new to me
[23:47] <lz1dev> you can scale that field
[23:47] <kg7juw> im the network security guy not the code guy lol
[23:47] <lz1dev> and divide it by 1000
[23:47] <lz1dev> in the wizard
[23:49] <lz1dev> and the temperature field, you can divide by 10 too i guess
[23:51] <kg7juw> whats the best method with the without a lock it sends section?
[23:52] <kg7juw> is that when nothing can hear it it defaults to 0.0 lat and long or how do you set it to show its last known location?
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[23:59] <lz1dev> I am not familiar with habdruino
[23:59] <lz1dev> probably sends the last coords if it doesnt have a lock
[23:59] <kg7juw> ohhh thats asking what the hab sends
[00:00] --- Sun Aug 31 2014