highaltitude.log.20140812

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[07:18] <alastair_> Anyone bought hab parachutes from here? http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes-lt/list.htm
[07:18] <alastair_> price seems good to me
[07:21] <number10> they may not have the balloon loop attachment used in hab that you get from http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html
[07:22] <alastair_> looks like they add it for $5
[07:22] <alastair_> http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes/wb-att-detail.htm
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[07:26] <alastair_> If I lived in UK I'd buy from Steve, but I don't feel like paying something like $38 for a 18' sphearachute when I can buy it for $18 (not including shipping in both cases)
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[07:27] <alastair_> Actually I found out from the site that Steve was their reseller right after I posted the question.
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[08:27] <RocketBoy> Ill just point out the 18 spherachute is actually $23 inc parachute attachement lines (which come as standard on my site) - and of course there is US-UK shipping, import duty, Value Added Tax and courier handling charges to pay when importing into the UK.
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[08:28] <RocketBoy> oh yeah and mot to mention currency conversion charges
[08:30] <RocketBoy> and paypals cut
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[08:36] <MarkB_> Hi. I would really appreciate some advice how to prepare ATMEGA328 PU. I've bought some extra 328s and followed the bootloader instructions at http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/arduino/bootloader/bootloader.htm. Once completed I checked the bootloader had compiled correctly and, it had. However, I have tried to install script but I get the following error - avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00 - any ideas?
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[08:55] <Trieste> MarkB_: IIRC, that's a very generic error meaning it couldn't communicate with the mcu properly
[08:56] <Trieste> could you show what command you ran exactly?
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[08:56] <Trieste> oh, or did you do that from the Arduino IDE?
[08:59] <MarkB_> Hi Trieste. The error came from the IDE. When you ask what command, do you mean what was I doing?
[09:00] <Trieste> MarkB_: when I saw avrdude, I thought you ran avrdude from the command line, didn't realize Arduino uses it as well at first :)
[09:00] <Trieste> Check the board setting then, in the Arduino IDE
[09:00] <Trieste> or other settings, in case you forgot something
[09:03] <Trieste> but the "resp=0x00" indicates that it didn't really communicate at all
[09:03] <Trieste> loose cable? :)
[09:04] <mfa298> I think in the arduino config there's a couple of options to make it more verbose which will show the actual commands it's runngin
[09:05] <mfa298> Looking at that first page I think some of the wiring isn't actually right (although won't cause your problem). It looks like they're connecting Aref to VCC which from memory isn't something you'de normally do.
[09:07] <MarkB_> OK, thanks. I'm not quite sure what to do next though. The cables are good. I've just retried installing a test script on to the original 328 and it works fine.
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[09:14] <cm13g09-work> mfa298: ping
[09:14] <mfa298> cm13g09-work: pong
[09:17] <Trieste> MarkB_: try asking in #Arduino :)
[09:22] <MarkB_> Trieste, rgr. Thanks for help. 73s
[09:22] <MarkB_> :)
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[09:23] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA4Za3Hv6ng - microsoft do do some cool stuff
[09:23] <SpeedEvil> 3d shakycam handheld -> vastly speeded up video looking like it's been shot on a steadicam with a very low turn rate.
[09:23] <SpeedEvil> Clear applications to HAB
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[09:30] <Trieste> yeah, seen that, it's pretty damn impressive, especially the bike videos
[09:31] <Trieste> the climbing not so much, but it's still cool
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> The climbing in many ways is cooler
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> From a technical aspect
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> Optimised cameras could do much better
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> A panoramic input, with accurate light metering, and frame triggered by moments of low rotation
[09:34] <Trieste> that's what I meant, from a technical aspect it's still incredible, but it didn't "wow" me as much as the bike videos did
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Fair point
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> 'Stupid' amounts of data.
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> I realised today you can get a terabyte of SD for about 100 quid.
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> (admittedly not good SD)
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> But it could quite easily fit inside a camera.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> small camera
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[09:54] <MaXimaN> Interesting
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[09:55] <MaXimaN> B-66's battery went down towards to the cutoff threshold very quickly yesterday once the sloar panels stopped producing power
[09:55] <MaXimaN> In about an hour, in fact
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[09:57] <MaXimaN> I wonder if the battery has lost it's capacity to hold charge or if something on the tracker is drawing more current than usual
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[10:35] <Herman-PB0AHX> hello to all
[10:38] <fsphil> yo
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[10:53] <myier> MaXimaN: that would explain the shutdown for a few days over europe
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[10:54] <MaXimaN> If the battery doesn't fail completely, I expect we'll see brief appearances coninciding with solar chargingand APRS/70cm coverage
[10:55] <MaXimaN> Longer appearances during the day once back over Western Europe of course
[10:55] <myier> anybody knows if a resistor is required between an atmega 328 digital output and the EN pin of the NTX2B (for the enable part, not the serial)? The datasheet says it should be CMOS 3V and it supports up to Vcc voltage on this pin
[10:56] <MaXimaN> The LiPo cutoff would cut in at around 3.1 or 3.2V ideally to be protect the battery
[10:56] <myier> ok
[10:57] <MaXimaN> Considering what that little LiPo cell has been through in terms of thermal cycling I'm amazed it's lasted this long
[10:57] <myier> I thought LiPo were quite able to handle low temperatures
[10:57] <fsphil> not really
[10:58] <myier> :(
[10:58] <MaXimaN> While cold temps protect the chemistry of the battery up to a point (while not being charged) going below -20C can cause it to fail
[10:58] <daveake> myier No you don't need a resistor there
[10:58] <myier> great, thanks daveake
[10:59] <MaXimaN> Assuming Leo is using a 328 and not an M0+ or M3
[10:59] <myier> better safe than sorry
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[11:00] <daveake> MaXimaN No Leo uses PICs
[11:01] <MaXimaN> The battery may be in better shape than it seems anyway. The last temp recorded was -45C at 14km. If the temp is accurate then the fact the LiPo was supplying any power at all is an achievement.
[11:01] <MaXimaN> daveake: Ahh, cool
[11:03] <MaXimaN> With any luck it'll reappear and buzz SK or Japan and we can get mroe data
[11:04] <alexjos> hello, I am new to this interesting chat. I use to send high altitude balloons but in 2:30 hour missions. How can I send these round the world missions?
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[11:05] <MaXimaN> alex: Superpressure balloon, lightweight tracker (<12g), LiPo battery, solar cells
[11:05] Action: MaXimaN makes it sound easy
[11:07] <alexjos> So far I use latex ballon with a microtrack APRS and a 1.300 mah Lipo
[11:07] <MaXimaN> alex: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/index.html
[11:09] <alexjos> where can I get a Superpressure balloon?
[11:09] <MaXimaN> alex: You can't buy them off the shelf. Leo made his.
[11:09] <alexjos> MaximaN, that linkk is great, thanks
[11:10] <DL7AD> alexjos: qualatex makes them. have a look for qualatex 36"
[11:10] <DL7AD> but they are not that big than leos
[11:11] <MaXimaN> And also likely to fail...
[11:12] <alexjos> The tracker I use is too heavy
[11:13] <alexjos> and no solar cells
[11:13] <MaXimaN> alex: How the seams are made, the material used for the envelope, IR absorbtion, pressure required to burst - all important.
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[11:15] <alexjos> Thanks MaximaN. I was planning to use a latex balloon with a altitude control, GPS, etc. Bu I believe that is too heavy
[11:15] <alexjos> What kind of tracker is that one Leo is using?
[11:18] <myier> it's home made I believe
[11:18] <alexjos> Really impressive
[11:18] <myier> several persons here have made their own boards
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[11:19] <myier> it's the place to be ;)
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[11:22] <alexjos> thank you gentelmen. I have to do a lot of research on this
[11:23] <MaXimaN> alex: That's no problem at all. That will be 50 euros please.
[11:23] <MaXimaN> Each.
[11:23] <MaXimaN> ;)
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[11:24] <Laurenceb_> Leo isnt using off the shelf lipo
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> B-6* uses -50C rated stuff
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> also lipo voltage decreases with temperature, looks like they are still discharging at <3v
[11:25] <MaXimaN> Laurenceb_: Even so, performance at -45C isn't going to be stellar
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:26] <MaXimaN> And if they are overdischarging then performance degredation is to be expected - so still doing well overall
[11:27] <MaXimaN> I mean, it's circumnavigated the planet at an altitude above 12km. That kind of puts "performance" in perspective. :)
[11:28] <alexjos> MaXimaN, :) cash or credit?
[11:29] <alexjos> I really appreciate your comments
[11:29] <alexjos> I think I will try to contact Leo
[11:30] <MaXimaN> alex: He's on this channel already. Lurk long enough (and perform the magic incantations) and he will appear.
[11:30] <alexjos> jaja
[11:31] <alexjos> how magic must be the incantations? 50 Eur? :)
[11:31] <MaXimaN> Oh good lord no, not that much
[11:31] <MaXimaN> That's way too low
[11:31] <alexjos> jaja
[11:32] <alexjos> Being seriuos now, I think that the goals Leo has achieve are really great
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[11:33] <alexjos> ups, Leo stands for LazyLeopard?
[11:33] <MaXimaN> No
[11:33] <alexjos> ah
[11:33] <MaXimaN> It stands for LeoBodnar
[11:33] <MaXimaN> :)
[11:33] <alexjos> ok, thanks
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[11:35] <alexjos> I have just seen he has a website
[11:36] <MaXimaN> alex: http://leobodnar.com/balloons
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[11:52] <alastair_> Anyone here using GoPro can tell me if they use the housing or not? It adds another 62 grams to the payload so I'd like to know how fragile the camera is without it
[11:52] <alastair_> *GoPro3
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> Ask yourself this.
[11:52] <MaXimaN> I don't use them on my planes or multirotors
[11:53] <MaXimaN> I do use a lens protector cover though
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> Are you happy to throw your payload down the stairs with the gopro in?
[11:53] <adamgreig> alastair_: don't use the casing
[11:53] <adamgreig> it makes life a misery
[11:53] <adamgreig> fogs up, ventilates and becomes really difficult to open
[11:53] <MaXimaN> alastair_: GoPros themselves are pretty robust, but the lens assembly is not
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[11:54] <adamgreig> I would embed the gopro fairly well in your foam payload case and forego the case
[11:54] <alastair_> split opinions here huh?
[11:55] <adamgreig> no one has said use the case
[11:55] <alastair_> I dont know what SpeedEvil means then
[11:55] <MaXimaN> He likes breaking stuff
[11:55] <alastair_> Maximan, what do you mean yourself then about lens assembly?
[11:55] <MaXimaN> His follow up question was going to be "because if you do, can you film it and share the video with me?"
[11:56] <alastair_> ok, I'll consider it, maybe, no
[11:56] <alexjos> I do have experience on that. I put a Gopro Hero 3 in my X8 flying wing and it had a very hard landing and the display of the camera was broken.
[11:56] <MaXimaN> alastair_: adamgreig put it more succicintly. Keep the pointy-out bit inside your payload
[11:57] <MaXimaN> alex: But does the camera part still work?
[11:57] <alexjos> I recommend using the casing
[11:57] <adamgreig> alexjos: that's a bit different from putting it in a HAB
[11:57] <adamgreig> where you'll presumably already have a foam box for your electronics and so forth
[11:57] <alastair_> X8 flying wing huh?
[11:57] <MaXimaN> alex: I nose-dived my Caipirinha wing into the ground with the GoPro on the front and it survived, albeit with some cracks in the case.
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> alexjos: Simply that if you're not happy to throw it down the stairs - your camera may not be well enough protected
[11:58] <alexjos> yes, it works, but the display has a black spot in the middle
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> alastair_:
[11:58] <MaXimaN> alex: Then it's still good for HAB! ;)
[11:58] <alexjos> Now I use the GoPro app in the ipad to configure the camera
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[11:59] <mfa298> The stairs test that SpeedEvil mentioned is the how well made is your payload test. I.e. is it made well enough that you'de be prepared to throw the complete payload down the stairs. If you're not prepared to do that the payload probably won't survive a landing so might not be wise to fly it.
[11:59] <MaXimaN> I think it's fair to say that you shouldn't be flying anything from a balloon that you aren't prepared to lose anyway
[11:59] <alexjos> I sent my old Gopro Hero 2 last year in a HAB and it worked well
[12:00] <alexjos> I think that the landing of the HAB was softer that the X8
[12:01] <alastair_> Well I need a hole for the camera and there's a chance something convex will hit it if it during landing no matter how deep it is, right?
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[12:03] <alastair_> Also, I've heard the Gopro is waterproof, but dont know if used with the housing only, in case it will land in a pond
[12:03] <adamgreig> waterproof only with housing
[12:03] <alastair_> ok
[12:03] <adamgreig> wouldn't worry about something poking through a camera hole on landing
[12:03] <alexjos> no waterproff
[12:03] <alastair_> adamgreig, why not?
[12:04] <alastair_> the camera lens isnt really small
[12:04] <alexjos> actually I use it with the backpack battery in order to get more than two hours of recording
[12:04] <adamgreig> stunningly unlikely compared to other failure modes
[12:04] <alastair_> If i record with 720p at 30 fps, I think I'll get more than 2 hours right?
[12:05] <adamgreig> test it n see
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[12:05] <alastair_> temperature varies here in the ground
[12:05] <alexjos> The maximun I have had with one battery has been 2 hours 8 minutes
[12:06] <alastair_> alexjos but what video res and wifi mode did you use?
[12:06] <alexjos> It was 1080 and wifi on
[12:06] <alastair_> well that affects it
[12:07] <alastair_> let me find the link
[12:07] <alexjos> The Gopro with the backpac is only 110 grams
[12:07] <alexjos> not very heavy, and puts the recording in more than 4 hours
[12:08] <alastair_> and costs about $100 here
[12:09] <alastair_> I dont get why White edition shows longer battery life than Black with same settings
[12:12] <alastair_> http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-hero3-white-edition#technical-specs
[12:12] <adamgreig> black is more processor-intensive
[12:12] <alastair_> OK. I got White
[12:13] <alastair_> I dont get the difference on that page between "720 60 fps" battery usage and "720p 60 fps". Typo?
[12:19] <fsphil> same thing
[12:19] <fsphil> unless the lack of p implies i
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[12:25] <Miek> i think the one with longer life is meant to be 30fps
[12:25] <alastair__> I think they maybe meant 720p at 30 fps instead. Otherwise why 30 minutes longer? And theres also this page, http://gopro.com/support/articles/hero3-battery-life Thoughts?
[12:25] <alastair__> Miek, we posted at the same time :)
[12:25] <Miek> :)
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[12:27] <alastair__> now to get a microsd card to test it in ground conditions
[12:27] <MaXimaN> The backpac has been known to cause lock-ups
[12:27] <MaXimaN> You're better off powering it from an external 5V source
[12:28] <alastair__> I dont think I need the backpack if it will really record around 3 hours
[12:28] <alastair__> and yeah, there are some cheap 5V external rechargable batteries
[12:29] <MaXimaN> You can just use a lipo pack and stepdown
[12:29] <MaXimaN> You then have somethign that can potentially power other parts of your payload too
[12:30] <MaXimaN> You then have something that can potentially power other parts of your payload too
[12:30] <MaXimaN> Ooops, repeating myself there
[12:30] <alastair__> there are "plug-and-play" things like that
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[12:33] <MaXimaN> Even without plug and play, you can buy a lead and stepdown cheaply on eBay
[12:33] <alastair__> adamgreig when you say the cover fogs up, you mean you get mist on it? Thats weird, I thought you need air to pass for that
[12:34] <MaXimaN> alastair__: More likely condensation inside it
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[12:36] <alastair__> any way I can test this without flying it to space?
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[12:38] <MaXimaN> alastair__: Put it inside your freezer
[12:39] <daveake> Any moisure inside the case (and that includes that absorbed in the anti-fog strips) will end up condensing on the coldest part of the case. i.e. the bit in front of the lens.
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[12:40] <alastair__> MaximaN, wont I get condensation in the outside of the case then too?
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[12:40] <MaXimaN> alastair__: Sure, but open it up and look inside and you'll be able to see any condensation on the inside
[12:41] <alastair__> Okay, I guess I'll clean the outside quickly with a cloth before checking the inside then
[12:41] <MaXimaN> daveake: Would drilling a small hole in the case help at all?
[12:42] <MaXimaN> If the case it just being used to protect the camera from impact
[12:42] <daveake> You can do what you like to the case, so long as you leave it on the ground
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[14:05] <FuzzyLemon> hi I'm trying to reprogram my habduino with the updated code and getting a 'not in sync' error. Can anyone shed light on this error: avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00
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[14:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think you will find that the machine and the arduino are not talking to each other
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> make sure that you have the right drivers and the right COM port selected
[14:10] <fsphil> he left
[14:10] <fsphil> well, timed out
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> maybe his COM port failed againm
[14:10] <fsphil> not enough serial in his diet
[14:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Have to get him some Oats
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[14:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think you will find that the machine and the arduino are not talking to each other
[14:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> make sure that you have the right drivers and the right COM port selected
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[14:17] <daveake> My guess was that he'd need to unplug the Habduino first, as it uses serial for the ublox, however the docs say "Although the GPS is connected via hardware serial the design means you can program the Arduino as normal without having to remove the shield. "
[14:18] <FuzzyLemon> it has worked before with the habduino plugged in
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[14:18] <FuzzyLemon> i am unclear what the problem is this time
[14:19] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE-M> make sure that you have the right drivers and the right COM port selected
[14:19] <daveake> try that
[14:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its not uncommon for Windows to believe that the old COM port is still in use and so it allocates another one for its use.
[14:21] <nick_> I've been helping with a course teaching kids to program arduinos.
[14:22] <nick_> Periodically Windows just decides there are no COM ports connected for a reason I've yet to understand.
[14:23] <mfa298> if it still fails it could be worth removing the habduino board whilst programming the arduino just in case.
[14:24] <FuzzyLemon> should have gone to that course. Its was a COM port error. Thanks
[14:25] <daveake> Windows is a serial killer
[14:27] <mfa298> like most things in life the cheap stuff isn't really cheap when you factor in the wasted time and hair pulling that results from saving money
[14:33] <mightymik> i'm getting the "1 compatible devices but all are busy message" : (
[14:38] <cm13g09-work> mfa298: I know that all too well
[14:39] <FuzzyLemon> I changed the callsign when i reprogrammed it. Is that a bad idea?
[14:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No that's something you need to do!
[14:40] <FuzzyLemon> i mean its BALYOLO7 instead of BALYOLO. it doesn't seem to be uploading to spacenear.us
[14:40] <FuzzyLemon> although dl-fldigi indicates upload is successful
[14:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You will need a new payload document I suspect
[14:41] <mattbrejza> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[14:42] <mfa298> payloads docs are linked to the callsign so you either need a new payload doc or re-upload the firmware with the old callsign
[14:43] <FuzzyLemon> ok
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[14:44] <FuzzyLemon> does the new payload doc have to be approved?
[14:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No only Flight docs need approval
[14:54] <db_g6gzh> FuzzyLemon: I don't think I previously gave you a link to http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/2014-07-05_BALYOLO/
[14:54] <Laurenceb_> your own van O_o
[14:55] <FuzzyLemon> Please can I have this flight doc approved: e6a138aa8f2829454b062d4c7da9e90f
[14:56] <db_g6gzh> Laurenceb_: not mine, but theirs
[14:56] <FuzzyLemon> haha. I'll be using it on thursday!
[14:56] <db_g6gzh> it just happened to land round the corner from me
[15:02] <FuzzyLemon> that was a cool experiment. we put some beer on the outside of the payload to see whether it would boil or freeze first
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> and?
[15:03] <mfa298> hopefully you discovered that it's a waste of perfectly good beer :D
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[15:03] <FuzzyLemon> unfortunately the photographs were corrupted so we don't know. it was only a shot of beer.
[15:03] <craag_philcrump> mfa298: Assuming they used good beer ;)
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[15:03] <mfa298> this is assuming that it was a real beer.
[15:04] <FuzzyLemon> London pride
[15:04] <craag_philcrump> That'll do :)
[15:04] <FuzzyLemon> it return as frozen foam
[15:04] <craag_philcrump> which means it was a waste! :(
[15:04] <FuzzyLemon> so it may have been simultaneous boiling and freezing
[15:04] <fsphil> that's not how you make a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
[15:04] <craag_philcrump> fsphil: do tell..
[15:05] <fsphil> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bartending/Cocktails/Pan_Galactic_Gargle_Blaster
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[15:05] <craag_philcrump> hmm looks a little too out-of-this-world for a hab
[15:05] <fsphil> I've yet to find a good source for Algolian Suntiger teeth
[15:05] <FuzzyLemon> it wasn't wasted though. we drank it after recovery
[15:06] <craag_philcrump> FuzzyLemon: and........
[15:06] <FuzzyLemon> it tasted a bit muddy
[15:06] <craag_philcrump> :/
[15:06] <Reb-SM0ULC> FuzzyLemon: you have to do it again :)
[15:06] <fsphil> mmm irradiated beer
[15:06] <craag_philcrump> next ukhas challenge should be create the tastiest stratospheric beverage
[15:06] <FuzzyLemon> if the flight doc gets approved i'll be doing it on thursday
[15:07] <craag_philcrump> with london pride again?
[15:07] <FuzzyLemon> hmmm maybe
[15:07] <FuzzyLemon> haven't decided on the beer yet
[15:08] <craag_philcrump> have you got a temp sensor on/in it to see what temperatures it actually reaches?
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[15:09] <FuzzyLemon> we have a data logger that does pressure, temp and humidity
[15:09] <mfa298> could always try a lager and see if you can make them drinkable - at least you don't waste anything important that way.
[15:09] <craag_philcrump> I mean in the beer itself
[15:09] <craag_philcrump> /attached thermally to the side
[15:10] <Reb-SM0ULC> FuzzyLemon: some black porter?
[15:11] <FuzzyLemon> i've never heard of black porter
[15:12] <FuzzyLemon> it sounds nasty
[15:13] <FuzzyLemon> you mean a thermometer in the shot glass?
[15:16] <craag_philcrump> yeah - or at least on the outside of it (I'd assume that the container would be roughly the temperature of the liquid)
[15:17] <mattbrejza> inside the liquid would mean you wouldnt get self heating and stuff like that
[15:17] <craag_philcrump> mm inside would be ideal - perhaps a little more challenging to seal
[15:18] <craag_philcrump> I think you guys just used cling film last time?
[15:18] <mattbrejza> gluegun
[15:18] <mattbrejza> apparently is good for sous vide
[15:18] <mattbrejza> should be fine for this
[15:18] <craag_philcrump> heh
[15:20] <adamgreig> it was bad
[15:20] <adamgreig> melted
[15:20] <adamgreig> almost ruined my steak
[15:20] <mattbrejza> after like the 4th go though?
[15:21] <adamgreig> yea
[15:21] <adamgreig> epoxy was a better choice
[15:21] <adamgreig> though be careful with that much above a few hundred
[15:21] <db_g6gzh> how many people in here are going to EMFcamp?
[15:21] <adamgreig> i am
[15:21] <adamgreig> it'l be great
[15:21] <adamgreig> at least a handful of others
[15:21] <adamgreig> there will be a hab village
[15:21] <adamgreig> and a talk about hab
[15:21] <adamgreig> and a hab launch
[15:21] <mattbrejza> followed by hab lunch
[15:22] <mattbrejza> (sous vide bacon)
[15:22] <mattbrejza> i think james mentioned emf too
[15:22] <adamgreig> not sure sous vide bacon is what you want
[15:22] <craag_philcrump> me too
[15:22] <db_g6gzh> sounds good, I'll be in the campervan area but will no doubt find you at some point
[15:23] <craag_philcrump> yep james will be there I believe
[15:23] <mattbrejza> adamgreig is getting there early to shotgun us a space
[15:23] <craag_philcrump> helping me jam out their 869 network with our own
[15:23] <mattbrejza> ive told him waterside ;)
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[15:28] <chrisstubbs> Oh wow emfcamp looks cool, never seen it before
[15:29] <mattbrejza> our HAB village might turn out to be a town at this rate :P
[15:30] <db_g6gzh> I appear to know people who are going to EMF from several different contexts so it will be interesting to all be in the same place
[15:30] <adamgreig> chrisstubbs: it's going to be amazing
[15:31] <adamgreig> I was at the last (also first) one in '12
[15:31] <adamgreig> it was fantastic
[15:31] <chrisstubbs> The price seems a little steep but most things like this in the UK are pretty mediocre. This looks awesome :D
[15:31] <adamgreig> the money all goes to the infrastructure
[15:31] <db_g6gzh> tickets are still available
[15:31] <adamgreig> even the people running it are paying for their own tickets
[15:32] <adamgreig> the infrastructure is 100mbit ethernet to your tent
[15:32] <mattbrejza> they havnt broken even yet
[15:32] <adamgreig> ;D
[15:32] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: I think they have just
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[15:33] <mattbrejza> oh right
[15:33] <mattbrejza> at one point it did look like they would be nowhere near capacity
[15:33] <mfa298> hmmm, I really should have worked on people at work, Could probably have persauded them to make it a work trip.
[15:34] <mattbrejza> "teambuilding"
[15:34] <mattbrejza> still 400 tickets left
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[15:38] <FuzzyLemon> who approves flight docs?
[15:39] <adamgreig> lotta people,mostly in #habhub, but if you paste the flight doc id here soon i can
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[15:44] <FuzzyLemon> here it is:e6a138aa8f2829454b062d4c7da9e90f
[15:46] <adamgreig> done FuzzyLemon
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[15:48] <FuzzyLemon> thank you :)
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[16:04] <amell> happy days. another beer shot to space?
[16:05] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
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[16:07] <fsphil> not quite space :)
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[16:19] <craag_philcrump> for that amell buys us all a round next weekend right?
[16:22] <daveake> I'm pretty sure that's the plan
[16:26] <amell> Im not at the conference. ha
[16:27] <mfa298> just leave your credit card and pin at the local pub.
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[16:39] Nick change: luteijn -> PC1PCL
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[16:53] <snelly> ooh nice:
[16:54] <snelly> I don't know if anybody noticed this but CadSoft decided to go back to the old EAGLE 6 licensing scheme
[16:54] <snelly> Apparently enough people complained
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[17:07] <Upu> basically there was nothing in Eagle 7 people actually wanted
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[17:08] <Upu> if you're going to increment a major version number you want to be doing something other than making the UI worse and implementing a crap licensing scheme
[17:08] <nigelvh> ^^^
[17:08] <nigelvh> Also Upu, thanks for getting that package in the mail yesterday
[17:08] <Upu> nps thanks for ordering :)
[17:09] <nigelvh> Seems they don't give what the USPS tracking number is, so I know that it's apparently left the UK.
[17:09] <Upu> same tracking number
[17:09] <nigelvh> Oh really?
[17:09] <Upu> yus
[17:09] <nigelvh> IIiiiiiinteresting.
[17:10] <nigelvh> I guess I don't get much shipped internationally.
[17:10] <nigelvh> Didn't know USPS did that.
[17:10] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-6-30.49-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude.
[17:11] <nigelvh> Anyway, UW managed to destroy a couple of my GPSs, so now they're paying to replace them.
[17:11] <nigelvh> So, I get to upgrade to the 7's for free.
[17:16] <Upu> lol
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[17:20] <nigelvh> Time for me to do a new revision of my tracker anyway.
[17:20] <nigelvh> smarter, better, faster, stronger, etc.
[17:21] <nigelvh> Specifically, T/R switching to see about being able to send it commands
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[17:34] <redguy> What is the practical difference between "Spherachutes LT" and "Spherachutes"? http://spherachutes.com/items/list.htm
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[17:39] <PC1PCL> seems that the LT version is lighter and cheaper, so probably less durable?
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[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:41] <PC1PCL> "Spherachutes are made with 1.9 oz. ripstop fabric" v.s. "Spherachute LT is a Spherachute made with 1.1 ounce red ripstop fabric.
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[17:45] <redguy> I understand, but what does that change in practice?
[17:46] <daveake> Erm, it'll be lighter? And it's more likely to rip if you have to pull it out of a tree
[17:46] <PC1PCL> a given size parachute, as 'needed' by your payload weight v.s. the amount of weight you can allow the parachute to take might prompt you to use one or the other.
[17:47] <PC1PCL> or you could alwas go for the lighter one and save money per parachute, but end up need ing to buy more parachutes in the long term as they might not last as many reuses.
[17:48] <redguy> I cant find a different weight chart for each to make a choice... http://spherachutes.com/chart.asp
[17:48] <PC1PCL> that chart tells you what size you'd need.
[17:48] <redguy> I think the lighter ones seem pretty strong too for a HAB project, right?
[17:49] <redguy> thats what I said, I cant find individual charts
[17:50] <PC1PCL> a regular chute would then weigh say 1.9 units, and the LT version would be 1.1 units
[17:50] <daveake> There won't be individual charts
[17:50] <PC1PCL> http://spherachutes.com/volumeandweight.asp
[17:50] <daveake> The descent rate depends on chute size (and design) and payload weight; chute weight makes little difference
[17:50] <redguy> agree
[17:52] <PC1PCL> so if you need a chute of size X that ends up weighing 1.9, but you only have 1.2 worth of budget in your total weight including the chute, you'd need the cheaper/lighter version.
[17:52] <redguy> but whats the disadvantage of a light chute for a single flight?
[17:52] <redguy> if any
[17:52] <PC1PCL> but probably it is never that close for a small payload and a HAB that is going to go straight up, pop and come down.
[17:53] <PC1PCL> probably if only one flight and you don't expect/plan to reuse the chute, it doesn't matter, and the financial argument probably dominates the equation
[17:53] <PC1PCL> so you'd get the cheaper LT version.
[17:54] <redguy> any chance the lighter ones will tear during descent?
[17:54] <PC1PCL> probably there's some sort of historical reasons why there are two versions, and the LT is the new improved lighter cheaper version.
[17:54] <daveake> NO
[17:54] <redguy> I mean there's always a chance with any, but you get my point
[17:54] <daveake> NO
[17:55] <aadamson> daveake, did you get your mobilinkd?
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[17:55] <aadamson> pretty nice/small... got mine over the weekend
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[17:55] <redguy> daveake, who you talking to?
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[17:56] <daveake> you
[17:56] <daveake> It won't tear during descent
[17:56] <redguy> ok then
[17:56] <daveake> It might tear if you have to forcibly remove it from a tree
[17:56] <PC1PCL> so if you always used to get the regular type, ou might want to stick with it, but new users might as well just get the new improved version.
[17:56] <redguy> ok
[17:56] <daveake> It won't make any difference to your choice of chute size
[17:56] <redguy> ok
[17:56] <daveake> So you save a bit of money for something that might not last a long the end
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[17:58] <redguy> In ideal world where no payload is lost I'd get the heavier one, but yeah
[17:58] <daveake> aadamson It's at the post office waiting for me to go and pay the import duty
[17:59] <aadamson> ah very cool... curious, what will the duty cost you?
[17:59] <daveake> About £8 ($13)
[17:59] <PC1PCL> I'd probably get the cheaper one and once I got some experience how that worked out for me, I'd decide if the upgrade would be worth it.
[17:59] <daveake> But the add another £8 handling charge
[17:59] <daveake> they
[18:01] <redguy> ok
[18:01] <PC1PCL> Yeah duty by itself is more or less reasonable (although calculating it over the cost of the product and the shipping seems unfair), but the handling charge really adds up for me whenever I get something from the US :(
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[18:05] <aadamson> I talked to the author of aprsdroid. he's going to work on igating from BT to inet via 3g, its not supported today...
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[18:14] <PC1PCL> does it have any igating functionality at the moment, e.g. microphone to wifi?
[18:16] <aadamson> No, apparently igating doesn't work at all (I've not tried every mode, so may have missed one). the author says it needs some functionality added to support igate.
[18:16] <aadamson> I think all the mic to whatever does is show it on the local map
[18:17] <PC1PCL> yeah, it would need to actually change the received packet (updating the path) and then forward it again.
[18:17] <PC1PCL> So I guess if it gets added for BT->3G it will get added for all modes.
[18:18] <aadamson> it's apparently been on his hit list for some time, and just recently he's had a number of requests, so he seemed interested in bumping it up the priority list, but no commmitment as to when
[18:18] <aadamson> I would expect... yes for all modes, but don't know for sure
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[18:20] <mightymik> i'm still getting the "1 compatable devices have been found but are all busy" error. any experts in the house?
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[18:22] <PC1PCL> probably some stock or default driver is installed?
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[18:22] <PC1PCL> might need to find out what is being used as the driver and get rid of it?
[18:22] <mightymik> nope... been reinstalling it. it's some eff'd thing in windows somewhere remembering something wrong
[18:24] <PC1PCL> yeah, it might be remembering the old/original whatever driver... I'd try uninstalling the current driver completely (and check that the actual file is gone/moved away), and then making sure that whatever driver you are installing, if any, is really the one you need/want.
[18:25] <PC1PCL> also can try using another USB port, as windows usually only remembers association per port
[18:25] <mightymik> i went to the device manager and uninstalled it ... so where else could it be?
[18:25] <highaltitude> Hello everybody. Had to delay my launch for one day. Do I need to get anything reapproved or modified in the launch docs?
[18:27] <amell> might do, the docs expire.
[18:27] <amell> i had a flight which lasted over midnight expire mid-flight, unfortunate.
[18:27] <PC1PCL> mightymik: if you uninstalled it from there, then it is probably 'properly' removed. I guess you have the step-by-step to follow from e.g. here: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-quick-start-guide/
[18:28] <highaltitude> ok
[18:28] <highaltitude> gonna look now
[18:29] <mightymik> did that curiously, v2.sdr-radio works, but SDR# does not. that's why it's weird. i'm wondering where the residue is ...
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[18:30] <PC1PCL> not trying to run both at a time and having them end up fighting over it, right?
[18:30] <mightymik> corredt. run one, quit, then run the other
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[18:37] <bertrik> DL7AD: I made my intent to write a kind of "HabAlert" app a little more concrete by doing some research on some of the APIs to use and starting a design, I'm putting it on https://revspace.nl/HabAlertApp
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[18:39] <jellyfishtree> hello again. my flight doc reads "Launch window: 2014-08-11 00:00:00 - 2014-08-13 23:59:59" - this means I am valid to start tracking anytime within this window, and not specifically the launch date specified in the doc, correct?
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[18:47] <DL7AD> bertrik: okay
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[19:06] <aadamson> is daveake still around? what's the burst diameter of a typical 100 and 150 gram balloon?
[19:07] <daveake> Depends on the manufacturer
[19:07] <daveake> Pawan 100g is 1.6m
[19:07] <aadamson> how about the howee's
[19:07] <daveake> bigger
[19:07] <aadamson> 2.4 I've seen mentioned?
[19:07] <aadamson> seem about right?
[19:08] <amell> that seems a large difference
[19:08] <aadamson> that may have been 150's now come to think of it, just curious of a general burst diameter
[19:10] <amell> latex is latex?
[19:10] <daveake> Well, the manufacturers quote burst diameters, so go there
[19:10] <aadamson> ok... will do. thanks
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[19:11] <daveake> The Hwoyees do tend to burst at larger diameters than the others
[19:11] <amell> chinese stretchier than indian, who knew?
[19:12] <aadamson> yeah, ok, found what I was after... some of the 150's claim an 8ft (2.4m) burst dia.
[19:13] <amell> didnt know hwoyee did 10, 30 and 50g balooons, interesting.
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[19:22] <mfa298> I remember some of the 100g balloons (quite possibly the Hwoyee) were found to burst at >2m (so not exampt from notams in the uk)
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[19:30] <Adam012> Hi, just tried to download dl-fldigi installer for windows from the ukhas wiki and got an unwanted guest try to tag along. Can anyone confirm that the file has an infection tagged on?
[19:30] <craag_philcrump> Adam012: What page did yo get it from??
[19:30] <Adam012> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[19:30] <Adam012> Version 3+ Windows installer
[19:31] <cm13g09> Adam012: eh? Unwanted guest?
[19:31] <amell> looks ok to me
[19:31] <Adam012> Trojan
[19:31] <cm13g09> which AV?
[19:31] <Adam012> Avast
[19:31] <cm13g09> ok
[19:31] <amell> what does it identify the trojan as?
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[19:32] <cm13g09> Adam012: the DL3.1-windows-2abd6a7 file?
[19:33] <craag_philcrump> I'm updating clam and then I'll take a look
[19:33] Action: cm13g09 runs it through VirusTotal
[19:33] <craag_philcrump> nothing on the old db (~12 months old)
[19:33] <cm13g09> VirusTotal 1/52 detects as false positive.
[19:34] <cm13g09> Avast says file is clean
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> I got 0/58 on virustotal :P
[19:34] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: You were on the UK
[19:34] <cm13g09> *URL scan
[19:34] <cm13g09> not the "Downloaded file analysis"
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> Ah yeah
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> n00b mistake
[19:36] Action: cm13g09 cleans flat
[19:36] <Adam012> https://www.dropbox.com/s/01eg3p5b281sbkl/Virus%20detected%23.jpg
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[19:37] <cm13g09> Adam012: exciting.....
[19:37] <craag_philcrump> Well the url is still pointing to the habhub servers
[19:37] <amell> which could in theory have been compromised.
[19:38] <craag_philcrump> Yep
[19:38] <mfa298> but would seem unlikely
[19:38] <craag_philcrump> indeed
[19:38] <Upu> oh wait an A/V false positive
[19:38] <craag_philcrump> best way would be to edit that page and point it at hobhub.org or something with an infected file...
[19:39] Action: craag_philcrump hopes someone checks that
[19:39] <mikestir> anyone playing 70cm AC?
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[19:39] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:39] <Upu> its not got a virus
[19:39] <Upu> get better A/V software
[19:39] <craag_philcrump> clam reports clean
[19:40] <Upu> Kaspersky reports clean
[19:40] <craag_philcrump> Adam012: ^^
[19:40] <Upu> 50p says Sophos reports a virus
[19:40] <craag_philcrump> hehe
[19:40] <Adam012> Any suggestions for better A/V (I've been using avast for a while)
[19:40] <Upu> none
[19:40] <Upu> Microsoft security essentials
[19:40] <Upu> hate the stuff, just acts like a big virus tbh
[19:41] <amell> avast me hearty
[19:41] <cm13g09> Adam012: I've never had a problem with Avast
[19:41] Nick change: MichaelC -> Michael
[19:41] <cm13g09> slightly surprised it's reporting
[19:42] Nick change: Michael -> Guest52851
[19:42] Nick change: Guest52851 -> MichaelC
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[19:46] <on4bhm> anyone knows if you can get 10mhz ref signal out of ublox7c ?
[19:47] <craag_philcrump> I believe you can
[19:47] <Adam012> Thanks for taking the time to check everyone
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> it has massive jitter
[19:47] <craag_philcrump> Np! Thanks for alerting Adam012
[19:47] <Upu> yes you can on4bhm
[19:48] <Upu> you will need to up it from the default 1hz
[19:48] <craag_philcrump> LeoBodnar: Ah. A lot worse than other gps modules?
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> no, much better
[19:49] <craag_philcrump> ok, but better to run it at low freq and lock your own pll?
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> i think it's about 10-20 nsec phase quantisation
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> but at 10MHz it's up to 1/2 period
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> yeah it is doable
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> actually Upu has one, well had one
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> but for some applications phase jitter might be irrelevant
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> say for frequency meter - you get gating interval of 1 sec +-20nsec for almost nothing
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[19:53] <LeoBodnar> but sticking it directly into a LO won't work
[19:53] <craag_philcrump> Locking a vcxo with a reasonable time period would minimise the effect I assume
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[19:54] <LeoBodnar> I have used 0.1Hz loop BW
[19:55] <on4bhm> is it stable and clean enough to lock si4463 with it?
[19:55] <craag_philcrump> heh
[19:55] <craag_philcrump> that's a little extreme :P
[19:56] <craag_philcrump> For a desktop reference though I guess - not a bad idea
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> directly on4bhm ?
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[19:57] <Upu> still got it LeoBodnar waiting for code :)
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> haha OK wilco
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> craag_philcrump: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-clock-RF.jpg
[19:58] <on4bhm> i don't know yet what a si4463 needs....
[19:58] <craag_philcrump> I'm looking at it for locking a 27mhz LO for the 10ghz downconverter on the websdr
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPS-clock-USB.jpg
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> on4bhm: you can't do that, it will fail
[19:59] <craag_philcrump> trying to find a simple design that doesn't use 74000 series logic though...
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPSclock.jpg
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[19:59] <on4bhm> Leo: why?
[20:00] <craag_philcrump> Ah yes you showed me this a while ago..
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> on4bhm: because of massive phase jitter
[20:00] <craag_philcrump> I wasn't sure how you could do phase locking in a clocked micro though?
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> VCO will never lock
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> ^^ on4bhm
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> imagine multiplying 10MHz Fref with 30% phase jitter to say 434MHz
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[20:03] <on4bhm> leo: but what are you showing? how do you get your 10mhz out?
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[20:03] <LeoBodnar> why do you want 10MHz input for 4463?
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> it's out of spec by a factor of x3
[20:04] <on4bhm> where does the si4463 get its ref from?
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> XTAL or oscillator
[20:05] <on4bhm> ok
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[20:07] <MaXimaN> Evening all
[20:08] <MaXimaN> My FCD+ has arrived and is working beautifully
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[20:09] <Upu> approved it RocketBoy
[20:09] <RocketBoy> cheers1
[20:09] <MaXimaN> Now to install a virus^H^H^H^H^Hdl-fldigi
[20:09] <RocketBoy> !
[20:09] <Upu> nps
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[20:11] <MaXimaN> Okay, so Avast is also preventing me from downloading dl-fldigi
[20:11] <MaXimaN> This problem would go away if the file was zipped ;)
[20:11] <Upu> do you want me to zip it ?
[20:12] <MaXimaN> I turned off Avast for ten minutes
[20:12] <MaXimaN> But it's a good thing to do. Some work firewalls will refuse download anything ending in .exe, .dll, etc
[20:12] <Laurenceb__> detected "trojan-dl-fldigi"
[20:12] <MaXimaN> "You appear to be installing a trojan. Would you like help with that?"
[20:13] <LeoBodnar> it's going to hijack your spare lifetime so Avast is right
[20:13] <MaXimaN> Nooooooooooo!
[20:13] <MaXimaN> I had no idea I had lifetime to spare. Why was I not informed?
[20:13] <MaXimaN> And now it's gone
[20:13] Action: MaXimaN cries
[20:14] <db_g6gzh> just build from source, it may be quicker
[20:14] <MaXimaN> Okay, so as I have yet to take the Foundation exam, can I just use my nick for Callsign in dl-fldigi?
[20:14] <db_g6gzh> yes
[20:16] <MaXimaN> Hmm... Locator?
[20:16] <db_g6gzh> you can leave that blank
[20:18] <db_g6gzh> but to appear on the map you need to file in lat,lon and alt in the DL Client->Configure->Location tab
[20:18] <mfa298> db_g6gzh: Well installing fedora / ubuntu and installing from source might be quicker. Compiling dl-fldigi for windows is a painful experience that I think only a couple of people have tried (one of which is the person that compiled the version for download on the wiki)
[20:20] <db_g6gzh> ah, I've never built anything for Windows but assumed it ought to be just push a "build" button in an IDE - clearly not
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[20:22] <mfa298> Even building with an IDE isn't always the most easy experience (when the project was created in a different version of the software)
[20:23] <mfa298> and for most of the good IDE's you've got to pay a lot of money if you want to legally re-distribute what you've compiled. So dl-fldigi is cross compiled on Linux using mingw
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[20:25] <mikestir> at least I'm not the only person who finds the easiest way to develop a windows app is to do it on linux
[20:25] <db_g6gzh> I hadn't thought of that, I'm too used to open source, even in a commercial environment
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[20:29] <PB0NER-Martijn> compiling dl-fldigi on a mac is currently broken
[20:29] <PB0NER-Martijn> I tried it last week, as the precompiled version HAMlib support is broken
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> the last days I was thinking about my old flight program, why the GPS would drop out of flight mode every other cycle or would give "checksum mismatch" error codes, where it wouldn't update the position
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> why would it change mode on its own when it is supplied with power all the time?
[20:32] <nigelvh> Lunar_Lander: Either it's being reset, or you're telling it to leave flight mode.
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[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> the code basically is "Flight Mode On? Yes, go ahead; No, send the command again"
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> there was no place where it would be told to revert to pedestrian mode
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[20:33] <nigelvh> Then perhaps it's being reset
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> wonder how, power supply was quite stable all the time and could supply enough current
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[20:35] <nigelvh> Should double check that. Ripple or RF getting into your wires could cause problems.
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> as in, the transmitter being next to it for example?
[20:35] <nigelvh> Potentially
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[20:36] <nigelvh> Oscilloscope is your friend.
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> true
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> will have a look at that
[20:37] <nigelvh> DVM won't tell you what the ripple is or if there's noise on the line
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> that was a thing that was never looked at before the first flight, was probably not good
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> true
[20:37] <alastair_> I just had this in my mind, anyone here ever had hab flight where parachute failed but the payload survived somehow?
[20:37] <nigelvh> alastair_: I've had parachutes not deploy fully, if that fits your definition
[20:40] <MaXimaN> I am going blind or I am missing something here. How do I start dl-fldigi in "slim HAB mode"?
[20:40] <MaXimaN> Or, rather, "Slim HAB UI Mode"
[20:41] <alastair_> yeah that fits it
[20:41] <alastair_> depending on how much was deployed though
[20:42] <MaXimaN> Ahhh... shortcut on the Windows start menu.
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[20:47] <MaXimaN> Hmmm. If I select a flight to track such as B-63 it forces DominoEx 16 instead of Contestia 64/1000
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[20:48] <mfa298> MaXimaN: that's a limitation in dl-fldigi. Autoconfigure doesn't support contesia modes
[20:49] <PB0NER-Martijn> rsid/rxid can help
[20:49] <MaXimaN> Changing it from the Op Mode dropdown doesn't seem to change it either?
[20:49] <PB0NER-Martijn> just switch that on
[20:49] <mfa298> you can enable RxID (button in the top right) and for the B-* flighr it will set the mode once the transmission starts
[20:49] <MaXimaN> Ah, okay
[20:49] <MaXimaN> Thanks :)
[20:50] <PB0NER-Martijn> in the mailing list Leo mentions on his 'I released B-XX' announcements
[20:50] <PB0NER-Martijn> that his balloons support rsid/rxid
[20:50] <db_g6gzh> MaXimaN: it wont change at the top, but look bottom left
[20:50] <mfa298> there's a setting somewhere that tells it to look at the entire audio band for rxid/rsid which means you don't have to be tuned exactly on the transmission to pick it up
[20:50] Action: MaXimaN looks into his blind spot
[20:50] <MaXimaN> Oh yes!
[20:52] <PB0NER-Martijn> helps with drifting ... it does not when it is drifting whilst the telem is send... you can however tweek the contestia parameters to make it work a little better
[20:52] <MaXimaN> "Detector searches entire passband"
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[20:53] <MaXimaN> Alright, I'm all setup then. T
[20:53] <PB0NER-Martijn> look at 'custom' in the rightclick menu on the CSTIA 64/1000 (lower left)
[20:54] <PB0NER-Martijn> the tune margin can be tweaked.. I have better results with '50'
[20:55] <MaXimaN> Done and done.
[20:57] <MaXimaN> Finally! http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/small-reversible-usb-type-c-connector-finalized/
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[21:04] <mfa298> MaXimaN: assuming you're in the UK and around tomorrow there should be a flight or two happening that you can try tracking
[21:04] <MaXimaN> I'm in the UK and I will be around tomorrow
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[21:07] <mfa298> deatils at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/twTLu11wsVs
[21:08] <MaXimaN> Perfect, thanks :)
[21:09] <MaXimaN> I'll be at work but have remote desktop
[21:10] <mfa298> If you havn't already it's well worth joining the list that way you know about most upcoming launches
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[21:12] <MaXimaN> Sure, spotted the pico launch tomorrow also
[21:12] <db_g6gzh> also https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/4MEXe4lxL_k
[21:12] <db_g6gzh> ah, too late 8-)
[21:12] <MaXimaN> I unchecked "MaXimaN blindspot" ;)
[21:14] <db_g6gzh> you appeared on the map too
[21:14] <MaXimaN> I will see how my attic antenna performs
[21:15] <MaXimaN> Oh no - now you know where I live!
[21:15] <db_g6gzh> you and many others
[21:16] <MaXimaN> Just one more way for the government to track us
[21:17] <MaXimaN> Who tracks the trackers?
[21:17] <Scott85> evening all, just wondering if I bought a 70cm for finding balloons would I be able to use it for anything else? Is anybody else ever on that frequency?
[21:18] <Scott85> *70cm ham radio
[21:18] <MaXimaN> Scott: APRS, depending on where you live
[21:18] <MaXimaN> Although that's mostly on 2M
[21:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Radio Amateurs, and MOD
[21:18] <mfa298> It's an amateur radio band so there's some bits of amateur radio
[21:18] <mfa298> and other bands nearby that could be of interest (PMR)
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[21:18] <Scott85> but I would need a licence to use it right?
[21:19] <MaXimaN> Scott: You can get dual antennas
[21:19] <mfa298> depending on the Antenna and Radio you may well be able to recieve other bands as well
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need a licence to transmit yes
[21:19] <mfa298> You need a license to Transmit but not for listening
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[21:19] <Scott85> yeah, I was thinking of just unscrewing the antenna and putting another one in
[21:19] <MaXimaN> Scott: Do you have an antenna in mind?
[21:20] <MaXimaN> Or have an antenna already?
[21:20] <Scott85> just can't really justify the cost if all I can use it for is finding a balloon which I might only do once :)
[21:20] <mfa298> a 2/70 antenna and something like an SDR receiver should let you listen to airband, marine band, PMR, as well as the 2m and 70cm amateur bands
[21:21] <mfa298> Scott85: do you already have some sort of radio reciever or is that part of what you're looking to get ?
[21:21] <Scott85> No, I know I would need a yagi for finding a balloon right? Have not investigated other antennae
[21:21] <MaXimaN> Scott: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131125172090?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
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[21:21] <Scott85> no, have not got a radio receiver yet
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[21:21] <MaXimaN> 40 quid gets you a decent 2/70 antenna
[21:21] <MaXimaN> And 6 quid gets you an rtlsdr dongle
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[21:22] <MaXimaN> Then you just need a PL259 plug, a BNC connector, and some RG58 coax and you're good to go
[21:22] <mfa298> For a home station a vertical like the link MaXimaN just gave should do a good job if it's in a good location (up high and outside)
[21:22] <Scott85> but I read that they don't reccommend only a rtlsdr dongle?
[21:23] <mfa298> the rtlsdr isn't as sensitive as other radios but with a decent antenna in a good location it will do alright
[21:23] <MaXimaN> I got great results with an rtlsdr considering my location and my antenna's location
[21:23] <mfa298> and for $10 it's not goign to break the bank
[21:24] <mfa298> the next step up would be something like the Funcube Pro+ but that's around £150
[21:24] <MaXimaN> But they are not all made equal
[21:24] Action: mfa298 reaslises he's mixing currencies
[21:25] <MaXimaN> Scott: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
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[21:25] <MaXimaN> THe R820T is the most common
[21:26] <Scott85> great, thanks, I think I'm going to look into getting one of those instead
[21:26] <mfa298> normally there's a set of web accessible radios at http://websdr.suws.org.uk/ which are all R820T (although with a few mods to improve stability)
[21:26] <MaXimaN> You can always upgrade to a FUNcube or FCDP+ later on
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[21:26] <mfa298> that websdr is down at the moment as it was moving site.
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[21:27] <MaXimaN> http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
[21:27] <craag_philcrump> trying to get port 80 open
[21:27] <craag_philcrump> MaXimaN: That's a custom rx
[21:27] <MaXimaN> Indeed
[21:29] <mfa298> My comment about the websdr is that it's using R820Ts as an example that with a good antenna in a good location they work well.
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[21:29] <MaXimaN> How many do they run on suws?
[21:30] <craag_philcrump> 5
[21:32] <MaXimaN> #CFBWRN/WN14081221290031000006C/B TRIPPED ON OVHD PNL
[21:32] <MaXimaN> #CFBWRN/WN14081221290031000006C/B TRIPPED R ELEC BAY
[21:32] <MaXimaN> Nothing more reassuring than a plane with tripping breakers
[21:33] <MaXimaN> Or an ACARS from last night: C318LHROO8X 1IN CHARGE REPORTS LAVAC4 WILL NOT FLUSH.
[21:34] <craag_philcrump> lol
[21:34] <MaXimaN> Possibly even worse! ;)
[21:36] <Scott85> does this one look alright? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Receiver-RTL2832U-Compatible-Packages-Guaranteed/dp/B009U7WZCA
[21:37] <MaXimaN> Yep
[21:37] <MaXimaN> But pricey
[21:37] <MaXimaN> You don't need the remote of the antenna
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[21:37] <mfa298> look at cosy cave
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[21:37] <mfa298> of if you can wait ebay from china
[21:38] <mfa298> should be <£10
[21:38] <MaXimaN> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-DVB-T-Stick-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Receiver-PAL-IEC-/291190291468?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item43cc4b3c0c
[21:38] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping (PM)
[21:38] <MaXimaN> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Receiver-MCX-Input-R2-/271508076432?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item3f37247790
[21:39] <amell> www.cosycave.co.uk is cheaper.
[21:39] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[21:39] <amell> 6.50
[21:39] <MaXimaN> Inc shipping?
[21:39] <cm13g09> mfa298: see PM
[21:39] <MaXimaN> The eBay one is 7.28, free postage
[21:40] <MaXimaN> In the interests of full disclosure, I work for eBay by the way ;)
[21:40] <amell> go for it.
[21:40] <amell> actually. cosycave has reinforced socket
[21:40] <Scott85> but is the cosy cave one as good?
[21:40] <Scott85> oh ok
[21:41] <Scott85> I wouldn't mind getting some sort of antenna with it so I can start fiddling as soon as I get it
[21:42] <Scott85> then I can get an antenna specifically for 70cm later
[21:42] <MaXimaN> Scott: Are you able to mount an antenna outside?
[21:44] <Scott85> no, nothing huge but I know I could stick something like the ones in that Amazon picture out my window
[21:44] <Scott85> not sure that specific antenna would pick anything up though?
[21:44] <amell> you wont pick up habs with one of those unless its overhead.
[21:44] <amell> or sat on your desk
[21:46] <Scott85> yeah I know, not for habs, will get another antenna when I get to that point
[21:46] <mfa298> you could make a groundplane antenna similar to the payload antenna design on the wiki and stick out the window
[21:46] <MaXimaN> Scott: Do you have a loft?
[21:46] <mfa298> that's the approach I use and it does ok (although not with an rtlsdr)
[21:47] <Scott85> no, it's been converted
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[21:47] <MaXimaN> I've seen a couple of pictures of people hanging an X-50N from a tree branch :)
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[21:48] <MaXimaN> Scott: Do you have a garden?
[21:48] <MaXimaN> A rear garden, that is
[21:48] <Scott85> yip
[21:48] <MaXimaN> With a shed?
[21:49] Action: MaXimaN is getting specific
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[21:49] <Scott85> yes
[21:49] <Scott85> maybe I could put it in there?
[21:49] <MaXimaN> You can mount an antenna on that
[21:49] <Scott85> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCnH0Uh2eLk
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[21:49] <MaXimaN> yeah, there you go :)
[21:50] <MaXimaN> Not recommended, but hey, it works.
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[21:50] <Lunar_LanderA> m
[21:50] <Lunar_LanderA> *hm
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[21:51] <MaXimaN> Scott: If your shed is wooden then mounting an X-50N to the side of it is easy
[21:51] <MaXimaN> Then just run a line of coax from that to the house
[21:52] <mfa298> basic rules of thumb, The higher the better, the more sky it can see the better, and the less metal next to it the better
[21:52] <amell> wouldnt a pole out the top of the house be better?
[21:52] <Scott85> ok, I'll try that, thanks
[21:52] <MaXimaN> It certainly would
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[21:52] <MaXimaN> The X-50N comes with a mounting kit
[21:52] <Scott85> Do I need something like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ham-It-v1-2-Upconverter-Converter/dp/B009LQT3G6/ref=pd_sim_ce_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=13CEHZ1DCRK2Z1CCJ36N
[21:53] <MaXimaN> BUt is missing rawl plugs and bolts, I think
[21:53] <mfa298> If the coax run is getting longer (more than 10m) don't use RG58, get something better (RG213, W103, aircell) or get a preamp to put at the antenna end of the coax (habamp is good if you just want balloons)
[21:54] <Scott85> ok no, it will be short when I get to balloons
[21:56] <Scott85> I'm just going to get the one off Amazon with an antenna so I can start fiddling, I've no idea what I'm doing so once I've got it plugged in and picking up static I'll come back with some more questions :)
[21:58] <Scott85> thanks for the help everybody
[22:01] <craag_philcrump> websdr back up on port 82 for the moment: http://websdr.suws.org.uk/
[22:04] <Reb-SM0ULC> craag_philcrump: new stuf ? :)
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[22:06] <mfa298> Reb-SM0ULC: same setup but a new site on a big mast
[22:08] <Reb-SM0ULC> mfa298: ah, planning on testing one at my wth. got the sw for not really anys docs of how to use rtl..
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[22:08] <craag_philcrump> Slightly different setup
[22:08] <craag_philcrump> moar dongles!
[22:09] <craag_philcrump> Reb-SM0ULC: https://github.com/SUWS/websdr-config
[22:09] <craag_philcrump> Those are all our config files
[22:10] <craag_philcrump> Not quite up to date - haven't uploaded latest tweaks
[22:10] <mfa298> craag_philcrump: and less wifi :)
[22:10] <craag_philcrump> yep
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[22:13] <craag_philcrump> Reb-SM0ULC: Refresh that link - just pushed latest changes :)
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[22:19] PB0NER-Martijn (~PB0NER@moeling.xs4all.nl) left irc:
[22:19] <amell> went past a house the other day, they had this HUGE antenna bolted on the front next to the front door. it was about 6m high and had 8 radials in the ground plane. any idea what it might have been for?
[22:19] <amell> looked totally out of place in a nice area. Im sure the neighbours went ballistic.
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[22:22] <Laurenceb__> maybe it was an annoyatron
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[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Cover it with fake plastic leaves
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Stick some flowers on every june
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[22:29] <amell> deja vu = http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org.uk/docs/Acorn/AN/004.pdf
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[22:45] <gonzo__> CB?
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[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Everyone - remember - if you've got clear skies - perseids tonight
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[23:00] <Laurenceb__> haha
[23:00] <Laurenceb__> i remember that logo
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[23:06] <amell> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROLLS-ROYCE-VIPER-C201-JET-ENGINE-GAS-TURBINE-POWERED-RENAULT-ESPACE-PROJECT-/321471770569?nma=true&si=ZDV%252BqvT5ITVrwI5WtHldrRgeycg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[23:07] <amell> what kind of person spends all their money on something like that?!?
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[23:08] <amell> wouldnt the driver get sucked into the intake?
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[23:21] Nick change: wrea_ -> wrea
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[23:31] Nick change: jaymzx_away -> jaymzx
[23:36] <gonzo__> erm, me. If I had the time
[23:36] <gonzo__> I know someone who brought a harrier jump jet last year
[23:39] <MaXimaN> Minus engines, I'm assuming
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 13 2014