[00:00] <andyfletcher> split batteries?
[00:00] <andyfletcher> one for the tx other for the rest
[00:00] <myier> I'm using 2 AA with a step up
[00:00] <myier> that might be a good idea indeed
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[00:24] <myier> good night!
[00:24] Nick change: redman -> Guest17383
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[06:16] <andres_> Hello
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[06:27] <joeman> g;day!
[06:27] <joeman> ops
[06:27] <joeman> gone
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[07:31] Action: cm13g09 has rant about Mini-Tamiya connectors.... whichever idiot decided that it was valid to have Mini-Tams in either polarity should be shot....
[07:32] <cm13g09> (Yes, it's possible to have Mini Tam with Pin 1 positive, or negative, and Pin 2 negative, or positive.....
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[07:59] <alistair> Clever way to keep Spot facing upwards: http://ourhabproject.com/gps-global-positioning-system/
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[08:58] <f5opv> ????
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[09:01] <alastair_> Anyone here tried anything else to record a video except GoPro?
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[09:02] <ibanezmatt13> A few have used Canons, often hacked with CHDK, but they do have a tendency to get hot depending on the model and how it's situated in the box
[09:03] <alastair_> You mean the regular size (and weight) Canons?
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> like the little powershots and things like that I belive
[09:04] <ibanezmatt13> and of course there's the pi cam which is excellent if you're using a pi
[09:04] <alastair_> pi cam video res?
[09:04] <alastair_> powershots seem a little heavy
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they are in comparison. Not sure if pi is 1080p or 720p but it'll say somewhere
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> yeah video is 1080p
[09:06] <alastair_> cool. what is the angle of the lense?
[09:06] <ibanezmatt13> I have no idea
[09:06] <alastair_> okay, not using pi anyway
[09:07] <alastair_> this is interesting: http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/actioncam/hdr-as15
[09:07] <alastair_> battery life seems better
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> Some have used tiny chinese video cameras - the keyring ones.
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> Qualify varies lots, and some have issues with spurious emissions wiping out GPS
[09:19] <ian_> People have used Mobius and keycam #16, but there are reports that they are electrically noisy and can interfere with GPS reception if not positioned well clear.
[09:19] <malgar> I used the cheap Canon A1400 (less than 70 euro) with CHDK
[09:19] <mikestir> we recorded video last time - it was a bit of a waste of time without spin stabilisation tbh
[09:19] <ian_> ^^^ snap SpeedEvil - 1080p #16 is very well priced.
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> Chdk cameras compatible with chdk can be very, very cheap
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> if you're happy with a broken screen one from ebay
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> Of course, there is the silly solution - if you're happy with mobile phone cams
[09:21] <SpeedEvil> Mobile phone boards can be remarkably light and cheap
[09:21] <malgar> cons?
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> Poorly documented, not designed for the use
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> GPS may not work over 18km
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[09:36] <alastair_> chinese video cameras Ive tested arent really 1080, or 720p
[09:36] <alastair_> the video is just rescaled from 640x480 or something
[09:37] <alastair_> Weird how there isnt something decent between the cheap cinese <$30 price range and >$200 price range of Gopro
[09:38] <alastair_> My main concern with Gopro alternatives like this Sony one is cant tell if it will run at that altitude and temperature
[09:40] <fsphil> pi+picam is alright. though its rolling shutter can be a bit annoying
[09:40] <alastair_> all of these are CMOS sensor cameras as far as I know
[09:41] <alastair_> not using pi myself
[09:41] <fsphil> pretty much everything does
[09:41] <alastair_> there are few Canons released in 2008-2010 that have CCD sensors
[09:42] <fsphil> my canon HF200 has a cmos. it's pretty noticable too
[09:43] <alastair_> I had a CCD Canon once, recorded at 720p.
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[09:44] <alastair_> but heavy
[09:48] <alastair_> anyway, the Sony AS15 seems good if it can survive these temperatures. Only reason Im considering it over GoPro is the price and the fact that its battery lasts longer so no need for external batteries (its 65 grams)
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> alastair_: While you can't tell if it will - I don't recall anyone ever having temperature or altitude related problems with cameras that did not have a window
[09:48] <alastair_> window?
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> A bit of glass on the payload
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> It tends to mist up
[09:49] <alastair_> yeah
[09:50] <alastair_> I dont think it will freeze, even the chinese $10 ones run at -16C in my freezer, and I dont think the temp will go that low. Im actually worried it will overheat.
[09:55] <malgar> this is the internal temperature of our payload
[09:55] <malgar> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/ATLANTIS/31ca4c291532813239e4e29711808afe#g/temperature_internal
[09:55] <malgar> canon a1400
[09:56] <malgar> polystyrene envelope
[09:56] <malgar> no glass on the payload
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[09:57] <malgar> external -50 °C, internal +4 °C
[09:58] <alastair_> Nice.
[09:58] <alastair_> Sony's site says it can run at 0°C minimum.
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[09:59] <SpeedEvil> Cameras tend to be relative power-hogs
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[10:00] <SpeedEvil> which helps lots
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> At least if running from the ground.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> If you try to boot - and extend the lens - of a camera at 40000 feet and -30C, it may just say 'fuck off'.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> As the grease has congealed in the cold, and the battery is basically frozen
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[10:01] <malgar> lithium ultimate should work at -40
[10:01] <alastair_> Yeah. Thats why im concerned of it overheating, not freezing
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[10:02] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning a random camera with a stock lithium-ion
[10:03] <alastair_> I mean the generated heat
[10:03] <malgar> alastair_: as you can see our maximum internal temp has been +33C, ext +28C
[10:04] <alastair_> I imagine that will depend largely on the camera model.
[10:05] <alastair_> Max operating temp of Sony is 104F, or 40C
[10:05] <alastair_> for GoPro seems to be 80C, http://gopro.com/support/articles/hero3plus-camera-operating-temperatures
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[10:08] <malgar> alastair_: don't worry about temperature :)
[10:09] <alastair_> dont want to waste $200...
[10:10] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[10:10] <alastair_> Other's internal temps go below -40C. Maybe they dont have a camera to generate heat though
[10:10] <alastair_> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/B-63#g/altitude,temperature_internal
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[10:12] <SpeedEvil> That has no camera, and no case, basically
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> it's just heatshrink IIRC.
[10:12] <alastair_> OK
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> And is low power too
[10:13] <alastair_> but again, worried more about overheating. Anyone here had an issue like that? I dont remember where I read about this.
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> IIRC yes
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> but only after landing
[10:14] <alastair_> where did it land? :)
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> If you don't turn the camera off, and it's in a polystyrene box, at an ambient of 20C, and it wants to get 30C hotter due to internal dissipation, ...
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[10:15] <alastair_> oh
[10:15] <alastair_> then the camera should just turn off I think
[10:15] <alastair_> and save the video file before it does
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> Well, ideally, yes
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> Wierd.
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> No B*'s in range of recievers.
[10:16] <alastair_> how long was it laying like that before you found it though
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> alastair_: Wasn't me
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[10:17] <alastair_> OK. Must have used a pretty good styrofoam box too
[10:25] <alastair_> Do most of you make your own parachute, or buy it?
[10:25] <Broliv> I bought mine
[10:25] <Broliv> well, 2 of them
[10:26] <Broliv> Steve's site has a pretty comprehensive range
[10:26] <Broliv> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html
[10:28] <alastair_> I made one from nylon sheet for exact descend rate but not sure how it will do for a real flight
[10:29] <alastair_> It has a spill hole, not sure how I'll attach it to the balloon, maybe just have it lay on the side
[10:31] <alastair_> octagon shaped , like this http://www.uswaterrockets.com/construction_&_tutorials/Parachute/tutorial.htm
[10:40] <Broliv> you could replicate the reinforced holes around the spill hole and then add some connecting string that way?
[10:40] <Broliv> just a thought
[10:41] <malgar> my parachute has been crafted by the local kite club :) very good job
[10:41] <alastair_> Broliv, I don't understand
[10:42] <malgar> alastair_: is there a kite club near you? try to ask them to join in your project :)
[10:43] <alastair_> afraid not
[10:43] <Broliv> http://www.uswaterrockets.com/construction_&_tutorials/Parachute/tutorial.htm if this is the parachute design you are using, it calls for re-enforcing the shroud line attachment points. Why don't you copy the same technique but around the spill hole. They domonstrate it in the video
[10:43] <Broliv> demonstrate the orginal suggested technique that is
[10:44] <alastair_> you mean make the edge of spill hole stronger?
[10:45] <malgar> I've been quite surprised about the coincidence between the calculated descent rate with that parachute and the real descent rate. Pretty accurate
[10:45] <malgar> much more than the ascent rate
[10:46] <Broliv> in a way yes, then punch holes and attach shroud line between the holes. You'll then have an attachment point for the rest of the flight train
[10:48] <alastair_> Thanks. I'll think about whats the best way to do that. Having it laying on the side of the payload, is that a bad idea?
[10:49] <Broliv> it could get tangled in something, HAB's have a tendency to spin around a lot
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[10:51] <alastair_> I wonder what will happen to a payload if it will just fall from 100000 feet :p
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> not much
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Payloads have fallen from 120000 feet :)
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> getting to 120000 feet is quite possible.
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> Payloads falling from high altitude - even with parachutes often hit ridiculous speeds. Like over 50m/s downwards
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> But the thickening atmosphere rapidly slows them
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> The atmosphere doubles in thickness approximately every 5km
[10:55] <alastair_> probably why I lost my first payload, never tested my parachute at 50 m/s wind
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> 50ms in _very_ thin air
[10:56] <alastair_> oh right
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[10:57] <Broliv> My last launch the parachute got caught on the balloon remenants and descended quite quickly until it was at about 20,000 ft, then the parachute started working properly
[10:58] <alastair_> what would happen if it didnt start working?
[10:59] <Broliv> hit the floor faster ;)
[10:59] <Broliv> brb
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[11:04] <Laurenceb> B-66 seems to be late
[11:05] <alastair_> What do you guys use to know how much helium you need in your balloon? I use this tool to find out the neck lift, http://habhub.org/calc/ , then tie a large bottle to the parachute and fill it until I feel the bottle doesnt descend. Im sure you know of better and more accurate way to find this out.
[11:05] <alastair_> *fill the balloon
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[11:05] <alastair_> the bottle weighs as much as the neck lift is
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[11:09] <bertrik> I have not done a HAB so far, but I know you can check the density difference between the lift gas and air, this works out to about 1g/l lift for helium (or 1 kg/cubic meter) as a rule of thumb
[11:09] <fsphil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28674654
[11:10] <fsphil> if anyone's thinking of launching in Leicester
[11:13] <daveake> alastair_ The bottle weight should be the neck lift minus the weight of the filler
[11:13] <daveake> Also, don't understand what the parachute has to do with this. It doesn't get connected till later
[11:14] <alastair_> it doesn't have anything to do with the parachute, separate question
[11:14] <daveake> OK but you said " tie a large bottle to the parachute"
[11:15] <alastair_> my bad, I meant balloon
[11:16] <daveake> The method I use is to fill the bottle first so it weighs neck lift minus filler weight. Attach that to the filler. Attach balloon. Fill till bottle is lifted and stays level
[11:18] <alastair_> What about the weight of the hosepipe though
[11:18] <daveake> That's part of the filler
[11:19] <daveake> I have a ring marked on the hose. The filler weight is the weight from there to the balloon end of the filler
[11:19] <daveake> When the hose lifts as far as the ring, filling is done
[11:20] <alastair_> so you weigh the hose as well then when filling fill the balloon until the entire hose is moved up as well?
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[11:21] <daveake> Not the entire hose no, probably about halfway, to where the ring is
[11:22] <alastair_> Hm, so i should get a piece of hose the length of my hose minus the length from a marked location and use the weight of that?
[11:22] <daveake> ideally
[11:22] <alastair_> clever
[11:24] <alastair_> but obviously its impossible to get a perfect amount of helium like this, how easy do you think it is to overfill it and change the target burst altitude too much?
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[11:28] <daveake> Unless it's windy you can get very close this way
[11:30] <alastair_> OK :)
[11:32] <alastair_> Are white cable ties tied a bit too far from the neck in this guide? http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon Wouldn't want to damage the balloon.
[11:33] <daveake> Those are in the middle of the neck, which is good
[11:34] <daveake> That's pretty much what I do
[11:34] <alastair_> Is the color the way to find out where the neck ends?
[11:36] <daveake> plus it's thicker. It's very obvious where the neck is
[11:36] <alastair_> I see
[11:39] <alastair_> One last question, I try to avoid this, but does anyone know how bad it really is if the balloon contacts you while filling because of wind?
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> It may kill you.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> Oils are bad for latex.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> All skin has oil on it
[11:40] <joeman> latex glothes
[11:40] <joeman> they are cheap
[11:41] <joeman> get a 100pack
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dhgate.com/product/7-colors-women-sexy-full-bodysuit-open-eyes/161161557.html - get one of these
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> It's the only way to launch balloons
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[11:41] <alastair_> I know, I use gloves, and I've already read that oil is bad
[11:41] <alastair_> but want to know how bad it really is
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> Are you trying for a floater?
[11:43] <joeman> latex is still pretty strong
[11:43] <adamgreig> if you were trying to float it might be worth worrying about
[11:43] <adamgreig> if you're just launching a normal up-down kind of flight
[11:43] <adamgreig> it's so far from what's worth worrying about imo
[11:43] <joeman> I did a test today with nichrom wire about 10cm from the throat
[11:43] <joeman> and it just put a hole in it
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> If you're not trying to float - it's not an issue
[11:43] <joeman> otem350 blown to about 170cm
[11:43] <joeman> about 2 minutes later it finally popped
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> joeman: behaviour at full diameter may be quite different
[11:43] <joeman> yes
[11:43] <joeman> that is what I'm hoping SpeedEvil :)
[11:44] <joeman> I was a bit shocked to see it not pop
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> If the strength of the baloon goes down to a quarter - you'll likely burst 5km low
[11:44] <joeman> stenght?
[11:44] <joeman> of balloon goes down toa quarter?
[11:45] <joeman> by a quarter...or two a quarter?
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> No - I was just sauing it takes quite a lot of degradation to get to the point where the burst height is very low
[11:45] <joeman> to a quarter (I'm shocking this evening on the kbd)
[11:45] <joeman> ahh ok
[11:47] <joeman> best I rest
[11:47] <joeman> night
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[11:53] <joeman> oh just before I go...hole in balloon http://leederville.net/~joeman/pop.jpg
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[12:22] <maxmed> Hi, I'm trying to transfer my balloon tracking circuit from a breadboard to a single sided stripboard, I'm after some advice, should I use female headers soldered to the strip board so the gps, sd card reader, NTX2B and arduino mini can just be plugged in and out or should I solder these components direct to the board? Also, are there any good ways of planning out how all the components will fit.
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> There are arguments for both
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Soldering/desoldering isn't very hard
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> But it depends on the assembly - it may be useful to the payload design to have connecotrs
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> But also - connectors are a point of failure
[12:27] <maxmed> Looking at the parts I think I will use the header pins for the arduino and gps but hard solder in the sd card reader and NTX2B. As you say if I need them for another project.
[12:28] <maxmed> .../payload redesign I can always de-solder them.
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[12:38] Nick change: shenki_ -> shenki
[12:43] <Laurenceb> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cbWNirl8gsMC&pg=PT257&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
[12:43] <Laurenceb> i lolled
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> err
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[12:59] <SpeedEvil> at what?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> erm scroll to the beginning
[13:01] <Laurenceb> was that actually published...
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[13:17] <amell> Speedevil: thanks for that link& my wife was asking me why i was looking at it.
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> oops
[13:27] <F1VJQ> No B-6* being received anywhere.... wonder when B-66 will show up?
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Or even 64
[13:27] <F1VJQ> B-64 is the one that is most mysterious!
[13:28] <DL7AD> B-63 has been heared this night in bishkek but coulnt be decoded
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> oooh
[13:29] <DL7AD> www.dl7ad.de/china.html
[13:29] <DL7AD> this is the current prediction
[13:29] <DL7AD> the red circle represents a digipeater in china
[13:30] <DL7AD> but it should be already past the first one
[13:30] <DL7AD> there are several digipeaters which dont work even if they are displayed on the map
[13:31] <amell> where is bishkek?
[13:31] <F1VJQ> Republic of Kyrgyzstan - How did it get there without being in APRS range of any ground station?
[13:31] <DL7AD> i tried to manage a station there EX8BN
[13:31] <amell> are we going for lap 2?
[13:32] <DL7AD> did due to an error it did not decode
[13:33] <DL7AD> amell: yep
[13:33] <Laurenceb> do you have the recording?
[13:38] <DL7AD> yes
[13:38] <DL7AD> its horrible 3gpp or somethign like this
[13:40] <DL7AD> www.dl7ad.de/bishkek_b63.3gpp
[13:44] <Laurenceb> interesting
[13:45] <Laurenceb> is that 70vm or aprs?
[13:45] <Laurenceb> *cm
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[13:50] <maxmed> Hi, I want to make a 1/4 wave antenna for my payload, I have a SMA RG174 Pigtail (http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=88) and a SMA female panel mount 4-hole connector (http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=58), My question is, how do I connect the antenna to my stripboard?
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna?s[]=ground&s[]=plane
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[13:58] <Laurenceb> maybe Leo can decome it...
[14:00] <maxmed> ok, so I'll just cut off the SMA connector and solder directly to the board. Do I only need to connect the inner copper cable to RF out on NTX2B or does the outer part have to be connected to something to?
[14:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Outer goes to earth/chassis/0v
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> as close to the NTX2B aerial connection as possible I think you will find there is an 0v connection close to the aerial pin
[14:02] <maxmed> ok, so I'll connect that to my ground track, I assume then that the 2no. RF Gdn pins also should be connected to my ground track?
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oh yes!
[14:06] <maxmed> Ok, so I'll just externally connect all three of the gnd pins on the NXTX2B and connect the outer wire to this also then connect all of these to the ground track. I guess its not a good idea to use something like a crimp bullet connector or banana plug to connect the antenna to the circuit board?
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah no both the inner and the ground plane earth should be connected as close to the NTX2B pins as possible
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[14:08] <maxmed> ok so no connector, just makes it a bit harder to get it in and out of the payload box!
[14:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you want to use a connector then you need to use a decent RF connector not banan plugs!
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I mean you could build the aerial of of the socket you have and then mount that in the bottom, then plug the SMA connector into it with the pig-tail end going to the NTX2B end
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[14:11] <alistair> my internet connection died. SpeedEvil, you still here?
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[14:13] <SpeedEvil> somewhat
[14:13] <alistair> sleepy?
[14:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> maxmed, http://www.pridopia.co.uk/images/antenna-02.jpg see how the aerial is on the socket itself then connect pig-tail when required to fly
[14:15] <maxmed> Geoff-G8DHE-M : I guess I could solder my SMA female panel mount 4-hole connector directly to my stripboard then I can screw the pigtail/annenna directly into that?
[14:16] <alistair> Did you mean degradation from accidentally touching the balloon with your face or arms because of lousy wind won't affect the balloon burst altitude much or did i get it wrong?
[14:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes that is fully acceptable as well, you just need to maintain the co-ax form from leaving the Tx to the aerial itself without interruption
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> alistair: it's unliekly to
[14:17] <alistair> has it happened to you?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> alistair: may it have some effect - may that effect be significant if you leave it several months after touching the aballoon, or expect a floater - yes
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> no
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> This is just from general knowledge about latex
[14:18] <alistair> OK, thanks!
[14:20] <maxmed> Geoff-G8DHE-M : has that antenna just been made by soldering 4 single core wires to the panel connector then one to the central part of the connector? it doesn't us eteh pigtail at all in making the actual antenna?
[14:20] <alistair> BTW, if I have opened a balloon foil package, but then folded the foil back and and put it back in the box and taped it back, can I use it after a month or is it too degraded even if in closed like that?
[14:21] <alistair> Thought you might know ifrom general latex knowledge
[14:21] <alistair> (BTW, I didnt open the foil pack, customs inspection did)
[14:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes that's right just solder 4 lengths thru the four fixing holes for the ground plane, and then a single wire right length to the centre pin at right angles to the others
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> alistair: thefoil pack is the important bit
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[14:23] <SpeedEvil> If it's not been opened - and the container hasn't been stamped on - it's fine and has the normal life
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[14:24] <alistair> Its been opened, but not moved out of the foil pack, they probably just wanted to see what was inside. I've folded the pack and taped it
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[14:27] <maxmed> Geoff-G8DHE-M: out of interest does that payload belong to you?
[14:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Noo I track and visualise rather than build these days ;-)
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[14:45] <craag_philcrump> mfa298: ping
[14:47] <craag_philcrump> could someone check http://websdr.suws.org.uk/ for me?
[14:48] <mightymik> website is up, but receiver?
[14:48] <craag_philcrump> no waterfall/sound?
[14:48] <mightymik> no waterfall
[14:48] <craag_philcrump> ok thanks
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[14:54] <craag_philcrump> trying to reverse-proxy the websockets
[14:54] <craag_philcrump> looks like pieter's done something non-standard again...
[14:54] <myier> for the payload ground plane antenna as described on ukhas, is it ok if I use 1mm copper wire for the radials?
[14:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup any copper wire is suitable, tinned, or otherwise size not really relevant other than handling it!
[14:56] <myier> ok, for the radiator too?
[14:56] <myier> I'm wondering if I should use the probably bad quality coax core instead of cutting it and using copper wire
[14:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup any good conductor, I wouldn't go to thin as its difficult to handle but anything from 28swg downwards would be fine!
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[14:58] <myier> ok! thanks
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[15:07] <mfa298> craag_philcrump: pong
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[15:53] <ScottM85> hi
[15:53] <Upu> afternoon
[15:54] <ScottM85> Was just wondering when is the next time anybody is launching a balloon?
[15:54] <Upu> not sure
[15:54] <Upu> subscribed to the mailing list ?
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[15:55] <ScottM85> no, is this the mailing list?
[15:55] <ScottM85> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[15:55] <Upu> yes
[15:57] <ScottM85> Was thinking of trying this out with a Raspberry Pi with a GPS and GSM module to text co-ords when it lands, do you think that would be possible?
[15:58] <Upu> its possible but I would strongly suggest you consider a radio tracker
[15:58] <Upu> GSM tends not to be very reliable
[15:58] <Upu> and you will have no idea where it is until it lands and hopefully sends you a text
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[16:02] <Scott85> sorry, I'm back, my router been giving me problems :(
[16:02] <Upu> GSM tends not to be very reliable
[16:02] <Upu> and you will have no idea where it is until it lands and hopefully sends you a text
[16:02] <Scott85> what was the reason for suggesting a radio tracker?
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[16:02] <Scott85> ah right
[16:02] <Upu> you'll get live updates and prediction with a radio tracker
[16:05] <Scott85> ok, is this the module you use?
[16:05] <Scott85> http://uk.farnell.com/radiometrix/ntx2-434-650-10/rf-module-tx-fm-434-65mhz-10kbps/dp/1348829
[16:06] <Upu> yeah but don't buy it from Farnell
[16:06] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=92
[16:06] <Upu> theirs is the old version
[16:06] <Upu> without a TCXO so it drifts, it will work but the new NTX2B is better, less drifty and you can change the frequency
[16:07] <Upu> may be easier to start with something like an Arduino
[16:09] <Scott85> haha thanks, I was just on that page, looks good
[16:09] <Scott85> I've got an Arduino so might try that
[16:09] <Upu> probably best
[16:09] <Upu> got a gps module ?
[16:11] <Scott85> no, not yet, will do some research on it all to see what I need
[16:11] <Upu> ok
[16:11] <Upu> basically ublox
[16:11] <Upu> Adafruit has an altitude limit
[16:12] <Scott85> ah right
[16:12] <Scott85> how often do you lose a balloon would you say?
[16:13] <Scott85> or do you generally always retrieve them?
[16:13] <Upu> lol
[16:13] <Upu> well some of us generally launch them with the intention of not getting them back
[16:13] <Upu> but if we want them back we use the predictor to check we aren't going to loose them
[16:14] <Upu> obviously you can't account for getting stuck up a tree etc
[16:14] <Upu> http://predict.habhub.org/
[16:14] <Upu> only launch what you can afford to loose
[16:14] <Upu> but with a well tested radio tracker and sensible predicitons you should get it back
[16:15] <Upu> where abouts are you ?
[16:15] <Scott85> wow, that predictor looks pretty good
[16:15] <Scott85> I'm in Nottingham
[16:15] <Upu> its accuracy isn't bad 1-2 days before
[16:16] <Upu> you can couple it with the hourly to check the predictions are moving widly
[16:16] <Upu> example http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/elsworth/
[16:16] <Upu> every landing spot for the next 7 days from Elsworth in Cambridge
[16:16] <Upu> we can set you one of these up when you've decided on a launch site
[16:17] <Upu> if its changing rapidly you know the prediction may not be as accurate
[16:17] <Scott85> oh ok, I thought that we could only launch from Cambridge?
[16:17] <Scott85> or do people launch from all over?
[16:18] <daveake> You can apply for permission for whever you want.
[16:18] <daveake> And if you're not at the end of a runway you should get it
[16:18] <Scott85> haha
[16:18] <daveake> However if you are close to an airport it'll come with restrictions on wind direction
[16:18] <Upu> you may even get it from the end of a runway
[16:19] <Upu> if its unused
[16:19] <daveake> true
[16:19] <daveake> or outside operational hours
[16:19] <Upu> bascially stick around on here
[16:19] <Upu> use the wiki
[16:19] <Upu> ukhas.org.uk
[16:19] <Scott85> so I could launch it from home? that's convenient
[16:19] <Upu> ask lots of questions
[16:19] <Upu> track other peoples flights
[16:19] <Upu> see if you can go along to one
[16:19] <Scott85> yeah, that's what I was hoping to do
[16:19] <Upu> we have a conference in London in next weekend if you can make it
[16:20] <Upu> brb
[16:20] <daveake> I launch from my home, but I do have a field at the back. You need a bit of space as the balloon is unlikely to go straight up
[16:24] <myier> how to you register to the mailing list without a google account?
[16:26] <Scott85> How much would you say an average launch costs you?
[16:26] <Scott85> I understand it depends on weight etc
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[16:28] <daveake> Depends, but the consumable costs per launch are around £200 or so for helium/balloon/petrol
[16:28] <daveake> Fixed costs are the tracker, a parachute, radio, aerial, duct tape/foam/string
[16:29] <daveake> You could do those for about £200
[16:29] <daveake> So say £400 for first launch
[16:30] <Scott85> ok, thanks, that sounds reasonable
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> The fixed costs are somewhat recoverable - the radio can be resold for little loss, if you choose to do so
[16:32] <Scott85> Looking at the site it looks like the radio is just a regular CB radio, is that correct?
[16:32] <daveake> true
[16:32] <daveake> no
[16:32] <daveake> Amateur radio receiver
[16:32] <SpeedEvil> Diffenret frequencies, but broadly similar.
[16:33] <daveake> If you call a ham's radio a CB you'll probably get hit :/
[16:33] <Scott85> haha ok, I see
[16:33] <daveake> The wiki has a list of suitable radios
[16:33] <daveake> If you just do the one flight, you can sell the radio afterwards for what you paid for it
[16:34] <daveake> I've bought and sold 2, and actually made a small profit each time
[16:34] <myier> it's because you're famous ;)
[16:35] <daveake> ha
[16:35] <daveake> "as used by .." :p
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[16:36] <Scott85> just reading about the ham's radio, do you need a license to use one?
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> Scott85: not for recieve
[16:37] <Scott85> ok but the balloon will be transmitting?
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[16:37] <SpeedEvil> On a frequency which is unlicenced
[16:37] <SpeedEvil> Or licence-free, rather
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[16:37] <Scott85> ah ok
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[16:38] <daveake> Interesting photo for this radio scanner ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAND-WIDEBAND-COMPUTER-SCANNER-RECEIVER-AOR-8000-SSB-AIR-MARITIME-WITH-OPTIONS-/151374145790?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item233e9a28fe
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> hah
[16:39] <Scott85> lol
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[16:49] <Laurenceb> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L403O94
[16:49] <Laurenceb> free shipping
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Aww.
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Won't ship to me
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> I shall put it on my amazon wishlist
[16:51] <Laurenceb> epic comments
[16:51] <myier> should be nice for flight control, like displaying the mobile tracker
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> myier: visible from 12km up
[16:52] <myier> haha
[16:52] <daveake> Amazon does have a better class of comments
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[17:05] <aadamson> I couldn't make the rPi work with this, so I broke out the big gun... :)
[17:06] <aadamson> I wanted to see if I could make a dedicated Rx only igate with a linux box
[17:06] <aadamson> http://www.kubonweb.de/?p=130
[17:06] <aadamson> and I happened to have an Odroid X2 laying around so loaded debian on it
[17:06] <aadamson> and followed that with out the rpi stuff
[17:06] <aadamson> and poof, worked first time
[17:06] <aadamson> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135235611947&tab_idx=1
[17:07] <aadamson> They don't make the X2 any more, but their other platforms would work just as well
[17:07] <aadamson> nice thing about the X2 and most of their larger platforms is that they have onboard codecs
[17:07] <aadamson> for sound
[17:07] <aadamson> so direwolf works just as well via external radio audio
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[17:09] <Upu> http://www.kubonweb.de/?p=130 <- doesn't work aadamson
[17:09] <Upu> tried 3 dongles with it
[17:09] <Upu> pi tnc does work
[17:09] <aadamson> http://www.kubonweb.de/?p=130
[17:09] <Upu> http://tnc-x.com/TNCPi.htm
[17:09] <Upu> yep I couldn't get that working
[17:09] <aadamson> that link works for me, I'm looking at it and I just refereshed it
[17:09] <Upu> no the link works
[17:10] <Upu> what it describes does not
[17:10] <aadamson> sure it does
[17:10] <aadamson> I did it on a Pi yesterday
[17:10] <aadamson> but the problem is
[17:10] <aadamson> the PI is way too slow to function
[17:10] <aadamson> I used both an rtl and r820
[17:10] <aadamson> both worked
[17:10] <ScottM85> Does anybody use a YUPITERU MVT 7100? Looks to be one of the cheaper option
[17:10] <aadamson> but just way too slow
[17:10] <Upu> I couldn't get it working
[17:10] <Upu> so jsut stick that TNC sheild on
[17:10] <Upu> and boom works
[17:11] <Upu> I think they work ScottM85
[17:11] <Upu> try get an Icom IC-10R from T'bay
[17:11] <mfa298> Unless the issues is with CPU it should be possible to get software tnc working.
[17:11] <aadamson> I didn't have so wanted to see if I could get SDR working
[17:11] <aadamson> it works great on the X2
[17:11] <aadamson> I was curious what overhead would be
[17:11] <aadamson> none basically on that platform
[17:11] <mfa298> I managed to get some rtty decoding the other evening with an rtlsdr and matt's app on the Pi
[17:11] <Upu> http://aprs.fi/info/a/M0UPU-1
[17:11] <mfa298> and that's Java
[17:12] <aadamson> http://yd0nxx.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/aprs-igate-using-raspberry-pi-board/ - either of these are the same info btw
[17:12] <Upu> load average: 0.23, 0.08, 0.06
[17:12] <Upu> and its only 0.23 because I just logged in
[17:12] <aadamson> yep, same with the sdr on the quad core platform
[17:12] <aadamson> 0.0x
[17:14] <aadamson> load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.09 - running pymultimonaprs, multimon-ng, and rtl_fm
[17:14] <aadamson> but a quad core 1.7ghz is a bunch faster than an rPi :)
[17:15] <aadamson> Upu, did you do your own stencil8 rails or did mitch at hackvana help ya with those?
[17:15] <aadamson> I think I'm gonna have to do my own, he can't seem to take my gerbers and do them :(
[17:16] <Upu> did my own
[17:16] <aadamson> yeah, what I think I'm going to have to do...
[17:16] <aadamson> 10mm centers 2.5mm pegs right?
[17:16] <Upu> 2.7mm I think
[17:16] <Upu> can't recall
[17:16] <aadamson> hmm... wonder if that's for clearance
[17:19] <Laurenceb> B-66 should have turned up by now
[17:19] <aadamson> well, remember we had a hurricane off the east cost of the US this past week
[17:20] <aadamson> never made landfall, but got up to cat 2 at one time if I remember right
[17:26] <Laurenceb> so?
[17:26] <Laurenceb> NOAA forecast should be based on whats happening
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:51] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
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[17:57] <RocketBoy> The perils of having a crowd at a balloon launch http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28674654
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh
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[18:15] <SA6BSS> Dont know if you all have seen this, most expensive hab ever :) ? http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.di.se%2Fartiklar%2F2014%2F8%2F8%2Ffebril-jakt-pa-diamant-i-england%2F
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[18:28] <RocketBoy> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11020716/Treasure-hunters-scramble-to-find-12000-diamond-dropped-from-space.html
[18:30] <RocketBoy> hm - wonder what the penalty is for enticing trespass
[18:32] <qyx_> lol, interesting PR
[18:39] <myier> anybody knows if the usb-serial 16u2 on the arduino uno eats a lot of energy and if it can be disabled with some serial commands?
[18:45] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS: Gokväll!
[18:45] <SA6BSS> Tjena!!
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[18:50] <gurgalof> godkväll!
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[19:05] <SA6BSS> iss on 145.800
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[19:09] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS: too far north :/
[19:09] <DL7AD> too far west
[19:10] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS: mm, i should try though. 20 maxel
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[19:12] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS: but the funcube will to straight over on next pass
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[19:55] <myier> is a ground plane antenna enough to catch iss or the funcube with the fcdp+?
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[19:58] <mikestir> I've had funcube on my handheld scanner
[19:59] <fsphil> yea should be, it's a fairly strong signal
[20:00] <mfa298> I've had funcube and ISS on a simple dipole which should perform similar to a groundplane
[20:00] <mikestir> not ariss obviously, but when they've had that VHF spacesuit downlink on I've received that fully quieting on a scanner sitting inside the house
[20:01] <mfa298> Although I think most of the ISS and funcube stuff is on 2m so if your groundplane is designed for 70cm it may not be as good.
[20:04] <myier> ok!
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[20:04] <myier> yes
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[21:17] <craag_philcrump> FRARS rally tommorow - anybody else going?
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[21:31] <amell> seems that they still havnt found that 12K diamond.
[21:38] <amell> gee. seen the predicts? If i launched a hab tomorrow it would fast disappear over the north sea.
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[21:55] <myier> is the mobile tracker map updated if there is only ARPS receiving balloons, or does it need a dl-fldigi to receive too? I'm wondering if B-66 is not just in spain where nobody's listening
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> AIUI it only transmits in non-APRS when near the UK
[21:56] <DL7AD> myier: dl-fldigi fed in general. aprs if the gateway is running
[21:56] <amell> SpeedEvil: and france.
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Well, france is near the UK :)
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[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Also - go to aprs.fi - and enter 'm0xer in the top search box. This reveals that it's not due to the gateway being down that it's not recieving
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> M0xer 3,4,6 = 63,4,6
[22:03] <myier> ok
[22:03] <myier> already 7 days with moxer 4?!
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[22:04] <myier> he'll reappear in canada after having turned around the pol
[22:04] <myier> e
[22:04] <amell> this is why leo needs to launch more
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> 4 may appear damn near anywhere
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Could be canada, china
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> double circumnavigation anyways :)
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[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Is anyone aware of a nice site that lets me flip between wind vectors at say 250mB, 300mB, ...
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> ideally global
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[22:23] <myier> the GFS model can be used to display maps at different altitudes, but not that narrow, at least as I know it
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:26] <myier> for example: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/vent-950hpa/3h.htm
[22:27] <myier> you can see several Vent à xxx hPa
[22:27] <myier> 950 925 850 700 500
[22:27] <myier> it may exist for your country too
[22:27] <myier> I mean, data exist, but this kind of presentation
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> I don't actually especitally care about the UK - it's more a general question
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> I suppose I really need to write my won parser for gfs
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> own
[22:33] <myier> I don't know how you can access the data, it may not be free
[22:34] <myier> WRF NMM also proposes 975 950 925 700 300 hPa http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm.php
[22:34] <myier> with greater detail, but it tends to be wronger
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[22:35] <myier> (for my particular use of mountain at night at least)
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> I'm basically pondering the writing of a navigation software for balloons that can change altitude
[22:36] <myier> do you know that websites doing that already exist?
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> err?
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Really?
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> you don't mean hysplit?
[22:36] <myier> you mean like a predict?
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> No.
[22:37] <myier> I don't see what you mean then
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> You tell it 'I'm at 15000m above Paris, I want to get to Edinburgh, what is the time/altitude profile I should follow.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> And it gives you a profile, or says it can't be done in the length of the forecast
[22:38] <myier> oh nice
[22:39] <myier> I have thought about something that relates someday, for return-to-runway embedded software in uav
[22:39] <myier> (it also already exists)
[22:39] <myier> you record wind force and direction on the way up at different layers, and compute the gliding return path
[22:40] <myier> high-altitude UAV of course, or rocket-launched UAVs
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> poke Laurenceb_ for code
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> he did that 3(?) years ago
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[22:52] <myier> nice
[22:55] <snelly> hey gents
[22:55] <snelly> does anyone know of a good USB GPS based on ublox?
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[22:56] <snelly> This isn't for a HAB, but rather, a chase vehicle
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> yo
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> yeah theres my code on the wiki somewhere
[22:59] <mattbrejza> some ublox gps modules even have a usb interface
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[23:02] <Laurenceb__> myier: do you follow how landing spot prediction works?
[23:03] <myier> Laurenceb__: well I guess you just have to integrate the horizontal displacement with time spent at different levels
[23:04] <snelly> mattbrejza: that would be nice
[23:04] <Laurenceb__> yes
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[23:04] <myier> what I was talking about is computing the ideal profile that will get you back at some point if you have control over heading, like in a plane
[23:04] <Laurenceb__> myier: i ran that in "reverse time" from the ground upwards
[23:04] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[23:04] <myier> ok
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> so run that in reverse time up from the desired landing spot to current altitude
[23:05] <mattbrejza> LEO i think it is
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> using a model of glider descent velocity, but assuming glider is stationary
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> s/stationary/drifting with wind
[23:06] <myier> yes
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> then set the target heading so that it points towards that point
[23:06] <myier> exactly
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> this is compass heading, not velocity heading
[23:06] <myier> which changes its lift too
[23:07] <Laurenceb__> this algorithm gives you optimal descent path
[23:10] <jarod> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1-WtOb5hw
[23:13] <myier> Laurenceb__: do you do it with a weather forecast model or actual recorded data?
[23:13] <Laurenceb__> i did it with recorded data during the balloon ascent
[23:13] <myier> you infered wind with GPS data?
[23:14] <myier> s/with/from maybe
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[23:24] <Laurenceb__> yes
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[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:00] --- Sun Aug 10 2014