highaltitude.log.20140806

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[00:04] <arko> Looks like B-66 is headed back to mongolia http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/177326_trj001.gif
[00:04] <arko> hah
[00:04] <arko> it better fly by austria :/
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[00:21] <Islam> hi to everyone
[00:23] <Islam> i have got an issue with my pressure sensor, i'm using SCP1000, and connected through my Arduino, it seems like i'm receiving temperature and it's correct except the pressure
[00:24] <Islam> the interesting thing is that, via serial port i'm receiving temperature and pressure correctly, however through radio link, only temperature
[00:25] <Islam> $$$$ManHUB,NOGPS,16, -30603 - the first number is temp, second one is pressure
[00:25] <Islam> Serial readings : PRESSURE [100468] TEMP C [16]
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[01:42] <WB9SBD> Anyone Home?
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[02:00] <WB9SBD> youre up late!
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[03:48] <jake> hello
[03:48] Nick change: jake -> Guest3227
[03:54] <Guest3227> hello
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[04:55] <m0xer-3> Congrats agn to SIR LEO, m0xer-3 is starting its 2nd round'world trip !
[04:56] <m0xer-3> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0XER-3&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[05:01] <m0xer-3> received here 57 on a 9elts rotary yagi at 150km far from home
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[05:06] <m0xer-3> quit
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[06:04] <WB8ELK> Congrats Leo on yet another trip around the World !!
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[06:13] <cm13g09> two trips down, is there going to be a 3rd
[06:13] <cm13g09> I think we know the answer?
[06:13] <cm13g09> (barring unforeseen circumstances)
[06:15] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: Your next challenge, should you choose to accept, is to lauch a balloon in the *Northern* hemisphere, and have it complete a circumnavigation in the Southern hemisphere.....
[06:16] <SpeedEvil> On circumnavigations - Rosetta begins rendevous with the comet at 9AM GMT today.
[06:16] <SpeedEvil> However, this is going to take days, and it's November before it lands
[06:17] <cm13g09> Cool though SpeedEvil
[06:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.universetoday.com/113693/rosetta-on-final-approach-to-historic-comet-rendezvous-watch-live-here/
[06:17] <SpeedEvil> Pretty pics
[06:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - of a mutant space-duck.
[06:18] <cm13g09> meanwhile..... I'm awiting for a disk to finish defragging on one of my colleague's personal laptops..... Set it going last night.... woke up this morning: 59%
[06:18] <cm13g09> and nice :)
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[06:58] <malgar> so LeoBodnar Apollo 12 has landed. The second accomplished mission is always less considered :P We want to listen to some important words to celebrate this second circumnavigation ;)
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[07:09] <malgar> so LeoBodnar Apollo 12 has landed. The second accomplished mission is always less considered :P We want to listen to some important words to celebrate this second circumnavigation ;)
[07:09] <LeoBodnar> erm
[07:09] <LeoBodnar> morning chaps
[07:10] <craag_philcrump> mornin
[07:10] <LeoBodnar> we now seem to be running a regular service
[07:10] <LeoBodnar> you might have a chance to hear it malgar
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[07:11] <craag_philcrump> time between buses is a bit long though, planning to add to the fleet any time soon?
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[07:11] <malgar> :D
[07:12] <daveake> Project Leoon
[07:12] <LeoBodnar> i am running THINK! COFFEE! campaign
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[07:19] <Maxell> I like how M0XER-3 says "f- you France, for not letting me APRS there"!
[07:26] <WB8ELK> Congrats on yet another trip round the World...looks like you will soon have a 3rd one as well.
[07:28] <UpuWork> Morning Bill
[07:28] <UpuWork> actually very morning for you, trouble sleeping ? :)
[07:29] <WB8ELK> Just heading off to bed actually...had to stay up to watch B-63 complete its first lap around the World.
[07:30] <WB8ELK> and watching B-66 just to my North.
[07:30] <andyfletcher> B-63 will cut its own path in a couple of hours
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[07:31] <UpuWork> looks like Leo got the balloon design right
[07:32] <cm13g09> UpuWork: clearly
[07:32] <daveake> very clearly
[07:34] <LeoBodnar> thanks Bill
[07:42] <cm13g09> daveake: Is that so clearly we can see right through it?
[07:43] <cm13g09> (badum-tish!)
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[08:33] <Reb-SM0ULC> morrn!
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[08:56] <Maxell> morning Reb-SM0ULC
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[08:57] <Maxell> cm13g09: yes clear envelope so yeah :P
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[09:14] <SpeedEvil> Is there a good reason why the mobile tracker lets me zoom out till I can see four earths?
[09:16] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: to make sure Leo's B's are all up in your face with his two round the world
[09:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its to allow Quadraphonic rather han just Stero viewing
[09:17] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I get it
[09:17] <SpeedEvil> It's pending the update that shows them properly wrapped round, so the trajectories aren't muddled for multi-circumnavigations
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[09:19] <andyfletcher> depends how many times Leo's balloons will go round!
[09:19] <db_g6gzh> need a mercator projection onto a moebius strip
[09:20] <db_g6gzh> and hi andy
[09:20] <andyfletcher> hi dave
[09:20] <andyfletcher> This is all your fault - you got me interested at the LBW
[09:21] <db_g6gzh> haha, there's no escape now
[09:21] <andyfletcher> don't suppose there is any point monitoring the signals from Oman!
[09:22] <db_g6gzh> a challenge for Leo to send one your way
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[09:44] <andyfletcher> :)
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[09:51] <Islam> i have got an issue related to my pressure/temperature sensor =/
[09:51] <Islam> still couldnt understand why..
[09:56] <db_g6gzh> Islam: I think maybe you're trying to store too large a number in a 16-bit signed data type
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[10:00] <andyfletcher> db_g6gzh, what was the RF module you were playing with when I saw you?
[10:02] <db_g6gzh> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=92 but talk to UpuWork on here before buying from him
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[10:07] <andyfletcher> thanks db_g6gzh
[10:08] <UpuWork> Here if you need me
[10:10] <andyfletcher> will give you a shout 4b I order :)
[10:10] <andyfletcher> before evan
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[10:26] <Islam> db_g6gzh, what is your suggestion?
[10:28] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar Congratulations on B-63 completing your second circumnavigation....d
[10:30] <db_g6gzh> Islam: I don't know your code, but assuming C and arduino, if you're using an int then try a long instead, see http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/long
[10:31] <Islam> well, what i did, i just divided the pressure value into the 1000 in order make it in kPa
[10:32] <Islam> it's working now, btw the pressure variable is long
[10:32] <db_g6gzh> OK that's also a solution as the kPa value won't exceed 32767
[10:33] <Islam> cheers
[10:33] <Islam> remained problem is GPS altitude
[10:33] <LeoBodnar> thanks F1VJQ! did you get my email? it got bounced 1st time
[10:35] Nick change: Guest3852 -> nick_
[10:36] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar Yes thank, mail arrived OK
[10:39] <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Has b66 stopped transmitting? There seem to be recievers in the area that should be picking it up, unless I'm misunderstanding aprs again
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> it just recovered
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> over Fort Recovery
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> hah
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:40] <SpeedEvil> And yay
[10:43] <SpeedEvil> I guess I'd just assumed APRS would be constant over the continental USA
[10:47] <UpuWork> I'm making preamps for stuff I didn't even know about now :
[10:47] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=105
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[10:48] <adamgreig> haha
[10:48] <adamgreig> oh man, the NOAA APT stuff is super cool
[10:48] <adamgreig> jonsowman: what's the website for your one at sgs?
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> UpuWork: that's still going? :)
[10:50] <UpuWork> It appears so
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[10:50] <jonsowman> adamgreig: no longer running, but https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsowman/sets/72157628081649522/
[10:51] <UpuWork> nice antenna
[10:51] <jonsowman> that was a mattbrejza special UpuWork
[10:51] <jonsowman> it worked really well
[10:51] <jonsowman> for a couple of hours with some pvc and a hacksaw
[10:52] <adamgreig> how many of those sats are still live? just a handful now?
[10:52] <UpuWork> looks great
[10:52] <adamgreig> remember when we tried to get some in 3rd year and couldn't hear a pip :(
[10:52] <UpuWork> dunno but someone in the states was super excited about getting a preamp made for it
[10:54] <jonsowman> maybe 3 or 4 sats left adamgreig?
[10:55] <jonsowman> one went offline quite recently iirc
[10:55] <adamgreig> :(
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[10:55] <jonsowman> http://www.jonsowman.com/sgs/wxsat.html
[10:56] <jonsowman> noaa-19 is the newest and mostly still working
[10:56] <jonsowman> after this oops http://brainwagon.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2003-06-03_noaa-n_prime_anomaly.jpg
[10:57] <adamgreig> :P
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> hah
[10:57] <jededu> upu did u get them ?
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> 'you don't need those bolts right now...'
[11:04] <mattbrejza> jededu: it semms most of those pics wernt with the wideband reciver
[11:05] <mattbrejza> jonsowman: rather
[11:05] <mattbrejza> theres lots of noise in the whites
[11:05] <jonsowman> yeah
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[11:33] <amell> hmm, wont a 144.8 Mhz preamp work for 137.5Mhz?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Depends how tight the filter is
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> In many cases - no
[11:36] <amell> good to see rosetta has entered a triangular orbit after taking 10 years to get there :)
[11:37] <amell> long time to wait for your data return :)
[11:37] <F1VJQ> amell oh no, the software just failed;-)
[11:37] <F1VJQ> It's sending back garbage!
[11:37] <amell> what?
[11:38] <F1VJQ> nothing...joking
[11:38] <amell> phew, that would be bad if it did
[11:38] <amell> look forward to the first comet landing in november
[11:38] <F1VJQ> bit of a moving target
[11:40] <F1VJQ> fascinating to see B-63 join its previous track outbound
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> ESA is way more awesome than NASA.
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> They've invented triangular orbits!
[11:40] <F1VJQ> the dairylea kids
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> It's ~ 1 month before it goes into a proper orbit at 30km, with a period of about 2 weeks
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[11:46] <mattbrejza> why triangular orbit?
[11:46] <amell> gravity distribution apparently
[11:46] <amell> sounds complicated.
[11:46] <mattbrejza> oh right
[11:46] <amell> the correct term is probably hyperbolic.
[11:47] <amell> video here http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/08/04/whats-happening-in-rosetta-mission-control-today/
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> amell: no, it's a wierd triangular trajectory
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf1zsACcXc4
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> nice 2 min video explaining the orbit
[11:49] <amell> it will be complicated as the asteroid is a binary. they dont know how the orbit will need to work yet.
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[11:50] <amell> my understanding is that they will use the triangular orbits and response to these to work out how to get a stable orbit ultimately.
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> The fact it's a binary is basically irrelevant at 30km - as the diameter is only 4km
[11:52] <amell> but the CoG will not be obvious...
[11:52] <amell> one ball may be heavier than the other, etc.
[11:52] <amell> and need to maintain earth station pointing.
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> Sure - but at 30km, the offset might be at most 1km.
[11:53] <amell> all sounds like a good fun for orbital mechanists.
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> The gravity is so slight - the orbit takes 14 days - that pointing isn't a concern
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> IIRC this was always the planned approach
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> There is little reason to go directly in - and a wider approach lets you do fields and particles stuff further out too
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[11:55] <Boelle_DK> Q: anyone ever connected a ublox gps over I2C on the pi ?
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> i have it connected and i2cdetect -y 1
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> can detect it
[11:56] <mfa298> I believe it has been done but you need to bitbang the i2c as the Pi doesn't support clock stretching
[11:56] <daveake> yup
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> but still looking for a sample script to read out data
[11:56] <mfa298> but don't ask me as I've not done it myself.
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> raw gps data is fine
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> just want confirmation that it works
[11:57] <daveake> It doesn't work
[11:57] <daveake> You have to do it in software
[11:57] <daveake> You cannot use the hardware i2c on the Pi for the reason that mfa298 gave
[11:58] <Laurenceb_> doh
[11:58] <daveake> To be specific, the BCM chip does support clock stretching but not at arbitrary times
[11:59] <Boelle_DK> so it can be done, just need the right script to do it?
[11:59] <daveake> And the ublox is the only device I know of that does clock stretching at "unexpected" times
[11:59] <daveake> s/script/program/
[12:00] <Boelle_DK> hmm... so it can be done? just need to have the right bit of code to do it?
[12:00] <daveake> That's what I said
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[12:01] <Boelle_DK> i guess if the ublox does clock stretch it will give out bogus data or no data
[12:01] <mfa298> I suspect it's the sort of thing you can only do sensibly at a reasonably low level from C. Doing it in python might be prone to various other issues.
[12:01] <Boelle_DK> and you just have to keep trying till you get something that looks valid
[12:01] <Boelle_DK> and that is what i kind of asked for.....
[12:01] <daveake> Lost data and bad data
[12:01] <Boelle_DK> someone that have done it and have a sample script i could use to test
[12:02] <daveake> Gawd no don't just keep trying till it works
[12:02] <Boelle_DK> it just have to work aprox every 10 sec
[12:02] <daveake> Not a wise plan
[12:02] <Boelle_DK> have not claimed i'm wise :-D
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[12:03] <daveake> Is this for a tracker or something else?
[12:03] <Boelle_DK> listning station at ground
[12:03] <Boelle_DK> but not a static one
[12:03] <Boelle_DK> portable
[12:05] <Boelle_DK> you said you have done it?
[12:05] <Boelle_DK> how did you manage to do it?
[12:05] <daveake> The "Pi In The Sky" board has C code for software i2c. It's on github. Please don't come back to me with support questions getting it working, unless of course you buy the board :-)
[12:06] <daveake> The program is a complete tracker and of course you wouldn't need the radio side
[12:06] <Boelle_DK> dont worrie....
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[12:07] <daveake> Was it something I said? :/
[12:09] <Dark-Fx> be happy
[12:09] <mfa298> I'm not sure I like your chances of not having to provide support.
[12:09] <daveake> haha
[12:09] <mfa298> or at least being asked for help.
[12:10] <daveake> The source does say "wel only support use with our own board", but yes IKexactlyWYM
[12:10] <Dark-Fx> your software doesn't work with my hardware, fix it
[12:10] <Dark-Fx> !
[12:10] <daveake> Yes I have a part of my vocabulary specially reserved for that sort of question
[12:12] <mfa298> I bodged your source code and now my Pi kernel panics regularly would seem like a likely complaint based on my experience of trying to make the gpio do stuff with low level C like that.
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[12:15] <daveake> I think I'll quit the internet for a while then :)
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[12:16] Action: UpuWork stays out of it
[12:16] <UpuWork> oh no wait he mailed me
[12:18] <fsphil> daveake: my dinner is cold. why do you hate me?
[12:18] <Dark-Fx> was it supposed to be?
[12:18] Action: Dark-Fx gives fsphil a hot caesar salad
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> And some piping-hot gaspacho soup.
[12:21] <fsphil> I guess someone will send me a pizza soon
[12:24] <daveake> arko perhaps
[12:25] <UpuWork> he's off pizza atm
[12:26] <daveake> you don't say @)
[12:30] <mfa298> fsphil: maybe you should send that gazpacho soup back to the kitchen to be heated up.
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[12:47] <fsphil> gives new meaning to a slice of pizza
[12:48] Action: mfa298 just realised SpeedEvil beat him to the Gazpacho soup joke by about 10 minutes.
[12:49] Action: mfa298 blames that on Ubuntu being stupid (mouse won't click on things apart from the launcher)
[12:49] <Dark-Fx> who chose to use ubuntu?
[12:49] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: red dwarf?
[12:49] <fsphil> you got canonical'ed
[12:51] <mfa298> Dark-Fx: we're mostly ubuntu here (although I'm not their hugest fan, also when I built this desktop I needed openCL support which fedora doesn't have yet - although then found it's been broken in 14.04 as well)
[12:51] <boru> Canonical: (verb) to brand something with a red hot NIH brand.
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[12:52] <fsphil> fedora/debian here
[12:52] <fsphil> mostly fedora
[12:53] <mfa298> I might need to test out if the couple of more intereting bits I'm doing from ubuntu works from fedora and re-install as I don't need the openCL support currently
[13:00] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuWw3zYIAAAZR2I.jpg:large
[13:00] <fsphil> nice
[13:01] <mfa298> annoyingly I just found the inability to click with the mouse is just on the left screen. And almost all my windows are on the left screen :(
[13:02] <mfa298> I found this out by moving one firefox windows from right to left and now I can't move it back.
[13:02] <gurgalof> mfa298: openCL works in 14.04
[13:03] <mfa298> stupid operating systems. At least with windows it either works or doesn't
[13:03] <gurgalof> atleast in the server version
[13:03] <mfa298> gurgalof: I found today that it does now. But I didn't seem to work with nvidia cards intially
[13:04] <mfa298> most of the issues I have seem to be related to nvidia.
[13:05] Nick change: zyp_ -> zyp
[13:05] <mfa298> I think I've had to power cycle the ubuntu machine several times more in the last couple of months that the windows 8 laptop in over a year.
[13:09] <gurgalof> never had to powercycle my server, that would be bad...
[13:12] <Dark-Fx> I can power cycle all my equipment remotely. I have it set up this way because I had a piece of equipment that was in a non-functional state for over 2 years
[13:13] <Dark-Fx> Doing a standard power-off-on wasn't enough for it, actually had to remove power for 10 seconds for the firmware to reset
[13:13] <mfa298> server seems to be better. I've got a bunch of Dells to try out Maas and juju with and had fewer issues with that (apart from missing documentation on maas and juju)
[13:14] <mfa298> but the desktop stuff seems to be pretty buggy still
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[13:17] <gurgalof> yeah, I have had some hiccups on the desktop version too and I have not tried 14.04 desktop yet, still on 12.04 on my laptop
[13:17] <gurgalof> has worked fine lately, was a little buggy in the beginning
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[13:22] <mfa298> for my home stuff now I'm not sure whether to use Ubuntu 14.04 or Centos 7 as that's been released as well. I've never been a huge fan of some of what you have to do for ubuntu. (Why do I have to create a user during install when the first thing I'm going to do it turn on NIS+NFS and then remove that user)
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[13:28] <gurgalof> ubuntu is just getting worse as time goes
[13:28] <gurgalof> more and more bloatware
[13:29] <Islam> I have got an issue with my GPS, i'm receiving lat and long except altitude and num of sats. I declared the alt as a long and put the line long alt = GPS.altitude(), referring to the TinyGPS, this function should return the value in cm, however i'm gettin 99999999 which is invalid, any ideas?
[13:30] <mfa298> I think this is one of the first releases I've actually got to run sensibly at home. Previously most of them have had some sort of networking issue (one of them failed to shutdown cleanly as it got stuck trying to dhcp release it's IPv6 address after shuting down the interface)
[13:32] <mfa298> Islam: it may be worth monitoring the raw data from the gps so you can see if there's valid data going into tinygps. If it doesn't have valid data going in you're not going to get anything useful out.
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[13:50] <edmoore> join #hamaltitude
[13:51] <edmoore> join high altitude
[13:51] <edmoore> i am already here
[13:51] <edmoore> i can use computers now without adult supervision
[13:51] <edmoore> sigh
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Show us the licence then
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[13:52] <edmoore> once i get touch-typing down
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[13:52] <edmoore> no stabilizers
[13:52] <molo4> any predictions available for B-66's path?
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Try a P plate for a few weeks as well then ;-)
[13:53] <molo4> it might be swinging close to me
[13:53] <edmoore> this channel often has better answers that #hamradio anyway
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> molo4 try the Mobile Tracker linked to from snus
[13:53] <edmoore> on matters ham
[13:54] <molo4> Geoff-G8DHE_: I have the mobile tracker up.. not seeing a predicted path
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Click the hysplit button when you have the balloon open
[13:55] <molo4> whoa, neat
[13:55] <molo4> thanks
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Might take a few minutes to appear its updated every 6 hours when the NOAA data becomes available
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[13:56] <molo4> thank you.
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[13:56] <molo4> it is taking a more northern track
[13:57] <molo4> which puts it about 140km from me
[13:57] <molo4> might be able to do it with a 2m beam
[13:57] <molo4> not sure
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[13:58] <molo4> oh actually, its on a middle track
[13:58] <molo4> so maybe 250km from me
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> looks like B-66 has passed 3 weeks airborne
[13:58] <molo4> less likely
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> now in second place
[14:00] <molo4> Laurenceb_: was glad to see B-63 cross its previous track
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> looks like it will meet FAI rules
[14:01] <molo4> what are those?
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[14:01] <cipher_> so,
[14:01] <cipher_> I tried gsm gprs trackers and as you guys said they are bad. Thinking about getting a radio tracker, but very new to radio. I don't know what tracker I should get and how much it will cost, same for the receiver. What will you suggest for a guy like me?
[14:01] <molo4> cipher_: what country are you in?
[14:01] <Geoff-G8DHE_> cipher_ where are you based
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[14:02] <mfa298> didn't I answer that question last night ?
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[14:02] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumnavigation#Aviation
[14:02] <cipher_> I think you or someone said to ask it today
[14:03] <mfa298> I think I you logged out just as I sent it
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> The course must cross all meridians, and must include a set of checkpoints which are all outside of two circles, chosen by the pilot, having radii of 3,335.85 kilometres (2,072.80 mi) and enclosing the poles
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> thats a bit simplified
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[14:03] <cipher_> mfa298, I guess
[14:03] <Laurenceb_> the great circle path must alse be outside the circles
[14:04] <mfa298> 00:12 < mfa298> cipher_: if you want something off the shelf then look at habduino (needs an arduino) or Pi in the Sky (needs a Raspberry Pi). Otherwise look at SPOT
[14:05] <cipher_> What should I get for a reciever?
[14:05] <molo4> Laurenceb_: would be a challenge.. but one important metric will be 40,075 km.
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> B-63 is close to that
[14:05] <mfa298> cipher_: there's a list of things on that link
[14:05] <molo4> Laurenceb_: yes
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[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> But the distributed Listener system does need stations near your flight area to work well, hence need to know which country your in ...
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[14:07] <molo4> this is odd.. M0XER-3 stops transmitting over french airspace? http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=4&ts=1404864000&te=1404950400&call=a%2FM0XER-3 (zoom out)
[14:07] <cipher_> Ive look at all those links but still lost
[14:07] <molo4> cipher_: what country are you in? some of this depends on local jurisdiction.
[14:07] <edmoore> cipher_, a fun cube dongle is a nice balance of cost and performance for a receiver
[14:07] <cipher_> Armenia'
[14:07] <edmoore> and will work with most radio transmission systems you might design
[14:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> OH your were cipherZero prevoisuly then
[14:08] <cipher_> yeah
[14:08] Nick change: Guest91824 -> nigelvh
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[14:09] <molo4> cipher_: are you going for stratosphere and pop or a floater?
[14:09] <cipher_> dont even know what a floater is
[14:09] <cipher_> first one
[14:09] <molo4> floater is one that rides the air currents for a long time
[14:10] <edmoore> like the B balloons
[14:10] <edmoore> usually much smaller and lower altitude than latex weather balloons
[14:11] <cipher_> Pi in the sky seems for preorder only, habduino seems like a better choice. But then again why not go with Spot Trace, seems to cost evena little less?
[14:13] <daveake> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=75
[14:13] <daveake> ^for sale now (and in stock)
[14:13] <daveake> But if you don't need pix then the Habduino is probably a better bet
[14:13] <cipher_> pix?
[14:13] <daveake> photos
[14:13] <Islam_> Could anyone ask my question regarding the GPS receiver....
[14:13] <cipher_> can it do video?
[14:14] <mfa298> spot won't give you data as often as the radio trackers and stops working above a certain altitude (28km I think) and your don't get the nice stuff on spacenear.us but you don't have to do anything other than pay money and turn it on
[14:14] <Islam_> answer*
[14:14] <daveake> pay money turn it on and pray
[14:14] <edmoore> you can build your own radio tracker too cipher_ , if you want
[14:15] <daveake> indeed
[14:15] <jiffe> I use the spot as a secondary in my habs
[14:15] <daveake> and if you think you can do it, do it
[14:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Islam, can't see a question try again ?
[14:15] <cipher_> thanks edmoore, I dont have the knowledge for that, but thatnks
[14:15] <edmoore> if you think you can't do it, consider that lots of people who've thought they can't in the past then managed to
[14:15] <edmoore> through the power of learning
[14:16] <edmoore> back when there weren't people trying to make money from other gabbers
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> what is the circle radius on a sphere? is it from the sphere axis or and arc length?
[14:17] <cipher_> what do you mean when you say spot wont give you data as often as the others?
[14:17] <cipher_> and isnt it a radio tracker too?
[14:17] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: I don't think it makes much odds for you, does it? :P
[14:17] <edmoore> cipher_, it uses satellite communications
[14:17] <edmoore> it sends messages much less frequently as each message costs money, and its gps receiver doesn't work at high altitudes
[14:17] <cipher_> so wait, with spot I dont need to get hold of a radio reciever?
[14:18] <edmoore> correct
[14:18] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i think you could load B-63 into google earth and have a play with the ~FAI rules manually
[14:18] <edmoore> but it'll be worse than the radio receiver in almost every respect
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> adamgreig just curious about the rules
[14:19] <edmoore> sorry, it'll be worse than using conventional radio telemetry in almost every respect
[14:19] <cipher_> edmoore, why?
[14:19] <jiffe> if you just want to send something up and get it back the spot works fine, but you won't know how high it goes if it goes aobe 18km
[14:19] <jiffe> above
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> its a 30degree cone from the center of the earth
[14:19] <edmoore> i just explained it to you
[14:19] <edmoore> read what i said
[14:19] <cipher_> oh, you mean those two reasons?
[14:19] <Islam_> i need someone who will help me in coding..checking the piece of code..
[14:20] <cipher_> i dont really want to know how high it goes
[14:20] <jiffe> and there will be a blackout period where you can't track it until it drops below 18km
[14:20] <molo4> cipher_: if you are going for stratosphere, 18km isn't high enough
[14:21] <cipher_> sure, you mean for some time I cant track it, right?
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[14:22] <daveake> he just said that
[14:22] <cipher_> still better than gsm gps systems where you cant even track it in some areas on ground level
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> so it's 60 degrees N lattitude circle shifted around until it clears the track
[14:22] <edmoore> yes, though not infrequently people often get maybe just 2 responses from spot
[14:22] <cipher_> what do you mean?
[14:23] <jiffe> for my first few launches I had both an aprs transmitter and a spot, the spot worked nice in those situations because when it got low to the ground the spot was still able to be received and give me an accurate location on the ground
[14:23] <edmoore> so it only seems to send infrequently
[14:23] <edmoore> doesn't always get its message through
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: yeah
[14:23] <edmoore> and it's not been unheard-of that a spot won't get a message out between coming below 18km and landing
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> looks doable for b-63
[14:23] <edmoore> and if it lands not facing up to the sky, you've had it
[14:23] <cipher_> why?
[14:24] <edmoore> because the antenna needs to be facing the sky
[14:24] <edmoore> because it uses satellites
[14:24] <jiffe> edmoore: not true, I've never had a problem with the spot and I've had some well hidden lands
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> sometimes it might work
[14:24] <jiffe> doesn't mean it can't have a problem but I've had a good track record with it
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> just like RFM22 sometimes can work in sapce
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> and in space
[14:25] <edmoore> oh well fair enough
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> of course id add rules of 1) path of at least 40075km
[14:25] <edmoore> i've helped a couple of spot flights that have had no such luck
[14:25] <jiffe> this is with the big personal spot product, I don't know about their trace product
[14:25] <cipher_> I dont want it to work in "space", just know where it landed, which the gsm systems often cant tell
[14:25] <edmoore> might be a latitude thing
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> 2) must cross its path after passing meridan
[14:25] <adamgreig> why
[14:25] <adamgreig> 2?
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> cuz more fair
[14:26] <edmoore> huh?
[14:26] <edmoore> 2 seems retarded
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> cuz pretty
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:26] <edmoore> BS
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> lol
[14:26] <edmoore> every line of latitude plus the skullcaps is i think fair
[14:26] <edmoore> longitude sorry
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> lol unlucky spiral HAB
[14:26] <daveake> re the Spot, from someone who uses them a lot http://balloonnews.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/can-spot-trackers-work-upside-down/
[14:26] <daveake> Doesn't give numbers but some flights the Spot has failed
[14:27] <cipher_> I dont get this part, "it sends messages much less frequently as each message costs money"
[14:27] <cipher_> I have to pay for the messages?
[14:27] <edmoore> yes
[14:27] <cipher_> oh
[14:27] <cipher_> its sms?
[14:28] <daveake> no
[14:28] <edmoore> similar
[14:28] <edmoore> but it's satellite
[14:28] <daveake> but you do pay per message
[14:28] <edmoore> the principle is similar
[14:28] <cipher_> what does it send to?
[14:28] <edmoore> it's like paying for a little text message
[14:28] <daveake> or per byte or something
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> but you need intenet to get the messages
[14:28] <jiffe> the spot costs about $100 I believe and you have to have a subscription which costs another $100 annual
[14:28] <cipher_> oh, I get it
[14:28] <cipher_> through their website
[14:28] <edmoore> whereas with radio it's constantly sending messages
[14:28] <edmoore> you get a position maybe every 10s
[14:28] <daveake> It sends to the satellite(s); they talk to each other and send the message down to the ground station(s)
[14:28] <daveake> Eventually you get to see the spot on a map
[14:29] <daveake> Or you can be emailed (depends on what the vendor provides)
[14:29] <cipher_> So, how long does it usually take to receive a message?
[14:29] <jiffe> with failed transmissions on landing radio may be better than the spot in this respect as it sends more frequently so its more likely to transmit before hitting the ground and at least give you an approximation
[14:30] <jiffe> spot transmits once every 10 minutes
[14:30] <cipher_> O
[14:30] <cipher_> oh
[14:32] <daveake> So, imagine you're chasing your balloon, once it gets over 18km you get no more updates till it comes down again. So you don't know how high it is or where it is or where it's likely to land.
[14:32] <cipher_> So with Spot, I pay $100 + $100 annual fee, I get location info every 10 minutes and theres evidence it might not work if the payload lands upside down?
[14:32] <cipher_> (also I dont get position info at >18 km)
[14:33] <cipher_> Thats it?
[14:33] <edmoore> that sounds about right, and also you're not guaranteed to receive the fixes every 10m
[14:33] <daveake> With radio you can follow it all the way, and may be able to get to the landing area before it does. I've seen 3 flights land, and that won't happen without radio
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[14:34] <LeoBodnar> also check SPOT coverage in your country , it's wide bit not 100% of the globe
[14:34] <cipher_> The only thing really bothering me is that it might not work if ends up upside down.
[14:35] <cipher_> (Anyone tried hackingit to add an extra opposite facing antenna?)
[14:35] <daveake> Also it's good to be close when it lands, so you get there before someone steals it or a tractor drives over it (both have happened)
[14:35] <daveake> If you can do that you can make your own radio tracker
[14:36] <cipher_> ok
[14:36] <edmoore> exactly
[14:37] <cipher_> The thing with radio receivers I dont understand: I just dont get how something plugged to a notebook can receive signals from a tiny device 30 km away
[14:37] <adamgreig> because radio is mostly magic
[14:37] <daveake> So, on the radio side, a) more likely to work, b) data throughout flight, c) you learn a lot (if you make your own), d) greater sense of achievement (as above)
[14:37] <adamgreig> magic and physics
[14:37] <daveake> especially magic
[14:38] <cipher_> OK guys, Id go with radio, if Id understand it all
[14:38] <adamgreig> primarily magic
[14:38] <jiffe> if you're looking to do one or the other I'd go radio
[14:38] <daveake> It surprised me on my first flight to have someone in Northern Ireland tracking my flight (in southern England)
[14:39] <edmoore> it is amazing yes
[14:39] <edmoore> even when you understand it
[14:39] <jiffe> once habs get up in open air they can be received quite a ways away
[14:39] <edmoore> quantitatively (not that there's any other kind of understanding that's valid)
[14:40] <jiffe> we did ground testing off a mountain top and weren't getting nearly as far as when it was in open air
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[14:40] <cipher_> So, for a beginner, you'll suggest habduino and what for a receiver?
[14:40] <jededu> ping upu
[14:40] <UpuWork> pong
[14:40] <jededu> pm
[14:40] <jiffe> cipher_: where are you?
[14:41] <cipher_> Armenia
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[14:42] <cipher_> I tried with a gsm tracker but it got lost in 40 minutes. The coverage map is a lie I guess http://mobile.beeline.am/media/zone/ru/beeline-armenia_coverage.gif
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[14:42] <cipher_> What area is where theres no signal
[14:42] <daveake> Coverage maps aren't especially accurate
[14:43] <cipher_> *white
[14:43] <cipher_> Seems extremely inaccurate
[14:43] <edmoore> if you're just going to buy either solution then radio, no question
[14:43] <daveake> Also, they probably assume someone holding a phone at head height, not a HAB on the ground (or in a ditch)
[14:43] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Nor are they detailed enougth, you need to see street level coverage to get a serious idea
[14:43] <cipher_> Last time I got a message when it was in the middle of a large yellow area on that map
[14:44] <daveake> The one GSM/GPS tracker that I tried was particularly deaf compared to any phome
[14:44] <daveake> phone
[14:45] <cipher_> I tested it a lot on ground in the town, worked perfectly
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[14:45] <edmoore> we used to fly hacked phones as backups
[14:45] <edmoore> saved as on a couple of occasions
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[14:46] <cipher_> smartphones?
[14:46] <edmoore> they had convenient serial debug ports on the back in my day
[14:46] <edmoore> no
[14:46] <daveake> Yes I have once. Also have a GSM modem payload that I built but have never flown
[14:46] <edmoore> just old nokias and seimens
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[14:46] <cipher_> they have gps?
[14:46] <daveake> This was an Ericcson T39m
[14:46] <edmoore> no, the main flight computer talked to them over serial
[14:46] <daveake> A bit of hackery with a cradle to make a data connector
[14:46] <edmoore> the flight computer had a gps
[14:46] <edmoore> so could construct a message to be sent as an ams over the phone
[14:46] <cipher_> ok
[14:47] <edmoore> it was only ever a backup to radio though
[14:47] <cipher_> OK, so what receiver should I get?
[14:47] <daveake> http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[14:47] <edmoore> fun cube dongle is a good compromise if you don't want to make the financial commitment to a ham radio receiver
[14:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[14:48] <cipher_> I swear I saw someone posted that link but I cant find it.
[14:48] <cipher_> Ok then
[14:48] <daveake> For a similar price, as used radio scanner that has SSB (e.g. AOR AR8000, Yupiteru MVT-7200, ICOM IC-R10)
[14:49] <mfa298> cipher_: one thing to consider is that you don't have to just fly a single system, you could fly a spot and make a radio tracker. That way you get the benefit of fast updates from a radio tracker and the backup of spot that should just work if it stays up the right way.
[14:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Try exploring the Wiki and searching for things there is a lot of info on it!
[14:49] <cipher_> money is problem, shipping here as well
[14:50] <daveake> ^^ good plan pretty much every question you've asked is in the wiki. Not that there's anything wrong with asking here but you should definitely research this yourself and the wiki is a mine of half hidden information
[14:50] <daveake> Well, it's not a cheap hobby
[14:51] <Laurenceb_> no hobby is cheap
[14:51] <daveake> Radio stuff though you can sell afterwards - it holds its value very well. I'm on my third scanner and I made a profit on the first two
[14:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Might be worth contacting http://www.iaru-r1.org/index.php?option=com_mqcontacts&view=contact&id=5%3Afederation-of-radiosport-of-the-republic-of-armenia&catid=38%3Amember-societies&Itemid=83
[14:51] <cipher_> Maybe its just me but wiki is confusing, seems more like a list of useful links
[14:51] <edmoore> it's not that well organised
[14:51] <edmoore> but there's lots there
[14:52] <edmoore> so it requires some time on your behalf
[14:53] <cipher_> I know but when I click on some page, I dont know what its for and get text
[14:53] <cipher_> with lots of new terminology
[14:53] <cipher_> its a lot easier to ask here, if there isnt anything wrong with that
[14:54] <edmoore> respect for the time of those trying to help
[14:54] <edmoore> is what it comes down to
[14:54] <edmoore> by trying to understand the problem in advance and asking specific questions based on what you've read
[14:55] <mfa298> it's probably better to read the wiki and then ask if there's something on the wiki you don't understand. That way you learn and if there's stuff missing on the wiki hopefully someone can update it
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[14:55] <edmoore> we put things like the tracking guide together so that we don't have to explain all the basics 20x each week
[14:55] <cipher_> so you dont want me to ask here?
[14:56] <edmoore> nothing that I'm saying is ambiguous
[14:56] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No please ask but read the guides first as othewrwise we all repeat that which has already been said dozens of times before
[14:56] <cipher_> I mean I understand what you're saying.
[14:56] <edmoore> if we've made the effort to try and cover the basics with wiki articles, before coming here and asking what a spot is versus a radio, read the articles thoroughly and take some time to understand them
[14:56] <edmoore> that does require effort on your part
[14:58] <cipher_> And most of the question I asked before were indeed in the wiki and explained very well, I just couldn't find the link on the page. Nothing to do with new words and terminology. Silly of me.
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[15:12] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking about tracker woes
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> why not have a server side resampling script that makes several copies of the log file for each payload
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> then the JS map code loads a different log based on the current zoom level
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[15:13] <Laurenceb_> so as you zoom in you get more detail, but the number of points is limited to those in view of the current map
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> might solve the speed issues
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> you would probably need to divide the logs into "windowed" areas serverside
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> google maps style
[15:14] <craag_philcrump> Laurenceb_: leaflet.js does that in the rendering
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> oh
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> this is already implemented?
[15:15] <craag_philcrump> hence why habmap is still responsive when zoomed out
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> oh, on habmap
[15:15] <craag_philcrump> and you can just about see the aliasing on the lines
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> ill take a look
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> very cool
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> wow
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> so fast
[15:15] <craag_philcrump> I might have to spend some time fixing the line-wrapping bug if these B-*s keep coming..
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> literally 100 times faster
[15:16] <craag_philcrump> you're welcome ;)
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> :D
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> nice graphs and operstreetmap
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> its awesome
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> the current position indicator thing on the graphs obscures some of the graph
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> thats a little annoying, but nice zoom function
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> at least it can handle long duration floaters
[15:19] <craag_philcrump> Ah I have a fix for that on another project
[15:19] <craag_philcrump> will merge it
[15:19] <Laurenceb_> also plotting two things at once would be cool
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> or even one against another, tho thats clearly a lot more work
[15:20] <craag_philcrump> Gets a bit messy UI wise
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:20] <craag_philcrump> I'd rather keep it as a minimal alternative
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> UI wise its hard
[15:20] <craag_philcrump> I wrote it mainly for phones/tablets
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[15:21] <Laurenceb_> the resampling works even more well than i expected
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[15:30] <cm13g09-work> craag_philcrump: works very well :)
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[15:32] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: don't think you can fix the wrapping bug
[15:32] <lz1dev> what google maps does, is render on seprate layer, a canvas for each title
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[15:32] <lz1dev> once they have the image, they can just tile is left and right
[15:32] <craag_philcrump> lz1dev: I'll split the line either side of the date line - just so you don't get the line across
[15:32] <lz1dev> while leaflet uses svg's path
[15:33] <lz1dev> which makes things hard
[15:33] <craag_philcrump> I'm aware leaflets world-wrapping is very much inferior to gmaps :(
[15:33] <lz1dev> you saw their fix
[15:33] <craag_philcrump> yeah
[15:34] <craag_philcrump> I tried it and it didn't work too well
[15:34] <craag_philcrump> Just removing the line across would satisfy me
[15:34] <lz1dev> works fine, just the icon is not in the right place
[15:35] <craag_philcrump> that's my definition of 'not working' :)
[15:36] <lz1dev> they use the google api don't they?
[15:36] <lz1dev> for the gmaps layers
[15:37] <lz1dev> perhpas you can use gmaps to make a path layer
[15:37] <craag_philcrump> the gmaps integration is a bit glitchy
[15:37] <LeoBodnar> interesting that charging rate and daytime payload temperatures on B-63 are lower
[15:38] <lz1dev> aliens confirmed?
[15:38] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if PV panels and payload are getting covered in dust
[15:47] <Dark-Fx> I wonder if summer is coming to an end and that's what's being measured, being in the northern hemisphere and all.
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[15:48] <LeoBodnar> so we have a solid scientific proof that summer actually exists?
[15:49] <lz1dev> the sun is pretty bright?
[15:49] <Dark-Fx> it's also moving further away from the sun
[15:50] <Dark-Fx> it could also be dust.
[15:51] <Dark-Fx> probably a combination of everything.
[15:53] <edmoore> lol
[15:53] <edmoore> the number of scientific papers that say things like that
[15:53] <edmoore> as a euphemism for "no idea"
[15:54] <Dark-Fx> edmoore: well, it seems unlike to be any single factor that is the only cause of it.
[15:55] <Dark-Fx> unlikely
[15:55] <fsphil> winter is coming
[15:55] <edmoore> another euphemism for 'no idea'
[15:55] <gonzo_> the goose is getting fat
[15:55] <fsphil> global dimming
[15:55] <edmoore> keep your entropy options open to minimise information learned
[15:55] <Dark-Fx> Maybe the sun is burning out
[15:56] <edmoore> too much coding
[15:56] <edmoore> needs a holiday
[15:56] <edmoore> i sympathise
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: slower than when it first launched?
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[16:00] <Laurenceb_> craag_philcrumb: also, all lines are the same colour
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[16:02] <N2NXZ> Listening to an Italian web tuner and decoded this APRS...non related to B-63?
[16:02] <N2NXZ> Digipeater IR4AS audio level = 133 [NONE] Audio input level is too high. Reduce so most stations are around 50. [0] IR3AO-11>APOT21,IR4AS*,WIDE2-1:>APRS digi Marmolada R,W4,T4,ITAn - Cisar Ago rdo Status Report, BALLOON, Open Track APRS digi Marmolada R,W4,T4,ITAn - Cisar Agordo
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[16:04] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> apparently loon has ADS-B
[16:05] <Laurenceb_> we could add it to habitat
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[16:09] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: which library did you use for the graphs?
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[16:18] <amell> Loon has ADS-B? hmmm. that is interesting. I wonder about whether its possible to use Loon for reporting tracker positions&
[16:19] <edmoore> how would that work?
[16:20] <amell> by communicating between the tracker and loon. Any idea what comms freq loon uses?
[16:21] <amell> oh 2.4 and 5.8Ghz
[16:21] <edmoore> i'm sure google would love you to hijack their comms system
[16:21] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[16:21] <amell> each balloon covers a 12 mile radius on land - not much.
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> yeah wtf
[16:22] <edmoore> and somehow figure out a way of then putting spoof reports onto their ads-b transponder
[16:22] <amell> the challenge is to hijack a loon and fly it to leobodnars back yard.
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> they will need a shiton of loons to get global coverage
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> i think they need phased array on the loon and directional antenna on the ground
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> or even a mobile mast style arrangement
[16:24] <edmoore> phased array on a balloon sounds like a nightmare
[16:24] <edmoore> you might have hundreds of clients
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah but compared to the alternatives...
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[16:24] <edmoore> the alternative is to not have a phased array and just use a bit more power
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> nope
[16:24] <edmoore> sound 10^5 times more sensible to me
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> its to use a shiton more loons
[16:24] <Laurenceb_> like 2 orders of magnitude more
[16:25] <Laurenceb_> which is what their current system requires
[16:25] <Laurenceb_> of course maybe the current setup is only a proof of concept
[16:27] <edmoore> indeed
[16:27] <edmoore> i still don't really see how it'd work
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[16:27] <Laurenceb_> like.. what do they connect to
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> environmentalists are excited
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> do they mesh network the balloons?
[16:27] <edmoore> from when i looked at this like 6 years ago, it seems like any randomly distributed balloon system will quickly clump into little bands
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> they have altitude control to avoid that one
[16:28] <edmoore> like rubbish on the oceans
[16:28] <edmoore> lol
[16:28] <edmoore> you say that like it perfectly follows
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> but they still need to link them to ground and... something
[16:28] <edmoore> premise: they have altitude control
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> im sure they have simulated it
[16:28] <edmoore> conclusion: to avoid that one
[16:29] <edmoore> i'll wait to see if work not in simulations
[16:29] <edmoore> see it work*
[16:29] <Laurenceb_> they say as much in their videos
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[16:29] <Laurenceb_> aiui they have simulated "constellations" on balloon based on their altitude control system
[16:30] <Laurenceb_> *of balloons
[16:30] <edmoore> that is the hard bit for me
[16:30] <edmoore> i'm quite sure you can make a comms package to do the job
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> i dunno
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> theres limited power
[16:31] <edmoore> i'd have thought that if you could get a bunch of solar-drones to station-keep at 50,000ft, you'd have abetter time
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[17:10] <DL1SGP> hi all
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[17:15] <Ian_> Anyone have an idea of the sort of track speed that B66 is making at the moment? It certainly seems to have moved out of the doldrums.
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[17:16] <lz1dev> should near spain in 2 days
[17:18] <Ian_> Not quite the answer I was looking for, but it certainly looks like it could make the tripple the way it is motoring at the moment. I understand that there is a lot of wind coming in from the Atlantic on the back of a recent hurricane.
[17:19] <lz1dev> Ian_: if you go to habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[17:19] <lz1dev> there is a hysplit button
[17:20] <Ian_> At this rate Leo will need Tenna pants to control the excitement!
[17:20] <lz1dev> it will show you a prediction of the path based on weather models
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> peaked at 120kph
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[17:26] <Ian_> lzldev: am on mobile tracker but can't see the hysplit button. Thought it was on top right somewhere?
[17:26] <adamgreig> left, by each payload
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[17:29] <lz1dev> UpuWork: hmt should work on your phone now
[17:32] <Ian_> Right, thanks adamgreig - vague recollection moves from top left to payload bar . . . :)
[17:32] <Ian_> So well hidden in plain sight. eek!
[17:37] <Ian_> The prediction is somewhat better than . . . nominal!
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone follow Rosetta's Orbit Insertion today?
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[17:47] <fsphil> not so much an orbit. more loitering
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[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:50] <DL1SGP> good evening fsphil
[17:55] <fsphil> howdy DL1SGP
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[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> 10 years
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> and now we are there :)
[17:58] <fsphil> some nice pics so far
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:03] <fsphil> it's going to be very interesting to see it change as it warms up
[18:03] <fsphil> but I'm really looking forward to the lander
[18:03] <fsphil> if you can call it a lander
[18:04] <fsphil> its just going to bump it against it
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[18:22] <yo9ict> Hi. Anyone who used DRF4463 ?
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[18:24] <myier> what's the frequency of B-63 please?
[18:24] <mattbrejza> looks like a breakout board for the 4463 yo9ict
[18:24] <mattbrejza> of which i think many have used before
[18:24] <mightymik> 434500 conteats 64/1000
[18:24] <mattbrejza> although not me
[18:25] <myier> thanks
[18:26] <yo9ict> Yes, it is based on the SI4463. I just need an arduino sketch for interfacing with it. The goal is making RTTY
[18:27] <mattbrejza> well no reason not to do it yourself
[18:29] <yo9ict> I don't have yet the module to start myself. Just searching for something already tried to learn the basics
[18:31] <myier> wow I'm able to pick it up, not to decode it but I hear it while there's a bulding in the line of sight
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[18:42] <marcel_> Hi, if I post for the first time on the UKHAS group using Google Groups, will it automatically get to the moderators?
[18:42] <DL1SGP> yes
[18:42] <marcel_> Or will it disappear in a black hole
[18:43] <DL1SGP> nah the shredder department is on vacation until end of summer :D
[18:43] <marcel_> :-)
[18:43] <myier> actually it is probably a ghost spike of the center spike of the receiver that I caught, once I moved it a bit in the band I did not receive anything :(
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[18:45] <mightymik> it helps if you have a good antenna
[18:45] <myier> yes and line of sight :(
[18:46] <DL1SGP> myier: do you have something like an sdr dongle to visualize a broader range of spectrum ?
[18:46] <myier> a FCDP+ yes
[18:46] <mightymik> that'll work
[18:46] <marcel_> thank you moderator
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[18:49] <craag_philcrump> lz1dev: I use dygraphs for the graphs
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[18:54] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuXpMQPIQAAVuob.png:large
[18:54] Action: fsphil digs out the glasses
[18:54] <arko> nice
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[19:02] Action: DL1SGP digs out the glasses
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[19:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Would be interesting to see a movie of when the lander fires the harpoons to anchor itself
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[19:07] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/1402/
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[19:08] <Geoff-G8DHE_> On that basis it has 2 for each half of it!
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[19:10] <fsphil> oblig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BjkUtqxPE
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[19:21] <MarkIreland> Any one got any good technical vacancies at their workplace at the moment? Just seeing what is out there
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[19:27] <amell> Geoff: I think that when the lander fires the harpoon, it flies off into space (every action has an equal and opposite reaction)!
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[19:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Nope the lander stays, the harpoons are indivdual rockets so the propellant goes backwards
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[19:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> and then they pull in the tethers to hold it the lander down
[19:32] <amell> so they already thought of that ;)
[19:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> and they have a couple of drills as backup it seems
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[19:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tv/scientists-test-harpoon-used-rosetta-probe-11948
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[19:36] <Geoff-G8DHE_> also http://www.simpack.com/fileadmin/simpack/doc/usermeeting04/um04_maxplanck_hilch.pdf love the drill/screw!
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[19:42] <Geoff-G8DHE_> LeoBodnar, Which flight are you running on the 31st August then ?
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[19:45] <SA6BSS> is aprs importer off? B-63 have not moved in a couple of hours
[19:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> looks like it
[19:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> B-66 is ok however
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[19:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> pit would have been off whilst it was being received on 70cms direct
[19:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> hasn't been turned back on yet
[19:50] <SA6BSS> ,yeah thoght so
[19:50] <SA6BSS> ok
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[19:51] <amell> interesting rosetta presentation, does any one know why they switched comet targets?
[19:52] <amell> ooh, B-66 leaving the US right now.
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[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> "* The 2003 launch was
[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> cancelled due to technical
[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> problems of Ariane V
[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> rocket system.
[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> "
[19:54] <Geoff-G8DHE_> slide 7
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> i have enabled B-63 again i thought somebody was receiving it on 434.500
[19:55] <molo4> amell: I was hoping to get home to hear it before it leaves.. but not sure at this point
[19:55] <molo4> its moving fast
[19:56] <molo4> does anyone know if these balloons switch to the ISS frequency when they are over the oceans?
[19:57] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The aerials a 2m ground plane isn't it LeoBodnar ? or is it a dipole
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[19:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> linking to the ISS is not really practical given the orbit and power reqiremnts
[19:58] <malgar> LeoBodnar: what do you mean with "enabled"? you don't have a two way communication
[19:58] <KD5J> The B64 balloon has been in amateur radio news here in the U.S., very interesting project. I am enjoying learning more about this micro ballooning activity.
[19:58] <molo4> Geoff-G8DHE_: I think it is 70cm groundplane, no?
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> 2m vertical dipole Geoff-G8DHE_
[19:59] <molo4> oops
[19:59] <TK4LS> Hi All, I receive B-63 but impossible to decode
[19:59] <Geoff-G8DHE_> the APRS feed into snus is enabled its runnin gon the balloon
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> are you using Contestia 64/1000 mode TK4LS ?
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE_> TK4LS are you using dl-fldigi ?
[20:00] <DL7AD> [21:59:36] <TK4LS> Hi All, I receive B-63 but impossible to decode
[20:00] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE_: he already managed balloons
[20:00] <TK4LS> Yes, no decode dur to the drift of the signal
[20:00] <TK4LS> even with AFC impossible
[20:01] <Geoff-G8DHE_> we had that on B-64 as well as battery ran down
[20:02] <TK4LS> Rx nice signal here but it's drift too much
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[20:03] <TK4LS> it starts arround 1500Hz to 2000 - 2500 Hz
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[20:03] <molo4> TK4LS: can you record it and put it on soundcloud? I would be interested to hear it.
[20:04] <TK4LS> i just decode the begin of the sentence
[20:04] <qyx_> lol i got 3D gps fix on 45mm piece of wire (quarter-wavelength)
[20:05] <TK4LS> The best one: $$B-63,42287,2O0150,140806,40.172,10.3441,13071,10,-56,3.76,0*A;6E
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[20:06] <LeoBodnar> i am getting 12 on B-63
[20:06] <qyx_> LeoBodnar: what gps antenna are you using?
[20:06] <qyx_> ceramic/chip?
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> it's Ernie Ball Special GPS L1
[20:07] <aadamson> tuned to e# I'm sure :)
[20:08] <amell> C-GVRA about to land in Keflavik
[20:08] <qyx_> wait what, a guitar string?
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[20:09] <LeoBodnar> yes qyx_
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> and B-66 B-64 etc
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[20:11] <myier> When Rosetta's radio signals arrive on Earth, they have a power of just 0.0000000000000000000000270 W
[20:11] <qyx_> http://imgur.com/oUy5uuj
[20:11] <qyx_> i just tried this
[20:11] <qyx_> quite surprised as i am inside a building
[20:12] <myier> nice
[20:12] <amell> are they using DSN for rosetta? I ask as its not on the status screen
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[20:13] <myier> I don't know, I'd say probably
[20:13] <amell> still downloading data from voyager1 and 2, no idea why. theyve been doing that with the big dishes for over a month now.
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[20:13] <mattbrejza> its a continuous thing surely amell ?
[20:13] <amell> its an expensive resource to tie up for that much time
[20:14] <mattbrejza> well it costs pretty much the same to sit idle?
[20:15] <mattbrejza> rosetta is esa anyway
[20:15] <mattbrejza> not sure what they use
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[20:24] <qyx_> a guitar string maybe
[20:25] <SA6BSS> Looks like b-66 will hit europe some time friday afternon
[20:25] <Geoff-G8DHE_> ESA tracking network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESTRACK
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[20:26] <amell> see. you would have thought they tracked B-64! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Satellite_Station
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/Estrack_tracking_stations
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[20:34] <harvy> Hey guys, I was chatting to a few people last night about some GPS transmission woes, I was wondering if anyone here can help me out?
[20:37] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Well we won't know if we can help until you say what the problem is!
[20:39] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE
[20:40] <harvy> Cool basically I am sending GPS data using ntx2 but it seem the baud rate of the rtty is very slow and it's not decoding back in dl-fldigi
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[20:40] <harvy> I've tried different baud rates with the gps module (ublox) and that has speeded it up a bit but not enough to get a coherent signal back.
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[20:42] <MaXimaN_> Leo: Did I read that right? Just a guitar string segment for the GPS antenna on 63, 64, 66?
[20:42] Nick change: MaXimaN_ -> MaXimaN
[20:43] <daveake> harvy Ignore the GPS just try sending a test message
[20:43] <harvy> If I remove the gps commands in the setup() then it works fine.
[20:44] <harvy> Code is here : https://github.com/ManchesterSpaceProgramme/tx-rtty/blob/master/online_ublox_ntx2/online_ublox_ntx2.ino
[20:44] <harvy> maybe a bit out of date.
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> yes MaXimaN
[20:45] <MaXimaN> Nice :)
[20:45] <harvy> by works fine, I mean it sends out a string with no gps data in it but it send and is converted correctly.
[20:46] <MaXimaN> Better performance than the chip antenna? And what configuration do you have it in?
[20:46] Action: MaXimaN imagines all kinds of fractal-based configurations
[20:47] <daveake> Suggest you use hardware serial not s/w serial for the GPS
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> just a 1/4 wave dipole
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[20:47] <LeoBodnar> better than a chip
[20:47] <MaXimaN> Nice :)
[20:47] <harvy> daveake: I don't have the equipment for that. Is there a way to do this through software?
[20:48] <lz1dev> daveake: whats wrong with s/w serial?
[20:48] <daveake> The Arduino has h/w serial pins use those
[20:48] <harvy> daveake: Equipment to debug that.
[20:48] <daveake> You don't need any equipment
[20:49] <daveake> What's wrong with s/w serial is that it causes problems such as the one you're having
[20:50] <lz1dev> yes, the interupts were messing with my APRS timings, but if you stop the s/w serial, its fine
[20:51] <lz1dev> once you are finish enable it, while you maintain the hw serial for say debug
[20:51] <mfa298> mattbrejza: is there any significant difference between decoder.jar decoder1.jar and decoder2.jar ?
[20:51] <mattbrejza> lol
[20:51] <mattbrejza> just older versions
[20:52] <mattbrejza> that i kept there incase the new one was broken
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[20:52] <lz1dev> version countrol the old way
[20:52] <mfa298> ok. I was just playing on the Pi again as craag_philcrump made a comment about oracle jvm being much faster than openjdk (at least on his ubuntu laptop)
[20:52] <mattbrejza> yea its under git
[20:53] <mattbrejza> these are just binaries i dumped somwhere public
[20:53] <aadamson> daveake, did you get your mobilinkd yet?
[20:53] <aadamson> mine should be here tomorrow... but alas, you can't use it as a mobile igate with 3g
[20:53] <aadamson> the feature doesn't exist in aprsdroid yet ...
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> craag_philcrump, you have mail
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[21:10] <aadamson> Upu, pm?
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[21:23] <harvy> Ok my hardware serial covnerting is probablt not up to scratch but basically just covert and GPS. to Serial. and then remove any debug println's using Serial?
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[21:29] <molo4> i'm not using dl-fldigi
[21:29] <molo4> but i decoded some lines from someone else's audio
[21:29] <molo4> is there a way to submit these lines via the web?
[21:29] <molo4> or verify the checksums?
[21:29] <molo4> credit to TK4LS
[21:30] <myier> same question with dl-fldigi, if you're not online when packets are received, is it possible to send them later when you catch a network?
[21:32] <fsphil> not with the current version
[21:33] <mfa298> although I think if you're online but not connected dl-fldigi will try sending packets later in some (possibly) unknown circumstances.
[21:33] <KD5J> opp;pp;nlobnj;k hj l/,]'
[21:33] <mfa298> or it might just freeze up and need force quitting
[21:34] <SHARP-SATS> B66 drafting behind P-tropical storm Bertha - http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2014/08/tropical_storm_bertha_expected.html#incart_related_stories
[21:36] <myier> ok
[21:37] <mfa298> If you've got an android device there's a decoder app for that which will upload over 3G
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[21:40] <harvy> Ok my hardware serial covnerting is probablt not up to scratch but basically just covert and GPS. to Serial. and then remove any debug println's using Serial?
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[21:48] <harvy> So I think I switched it to use hardware serial but I'm not sure it worked and now I can't upload anymore code to the arduino
[21:49] <mfa298> you may need to unplug the gps whilst you upload code to the arduino
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea the serial lines are used to upload code from the USB
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> so you need to unplug it as mfa298 said
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[21:59] <harvy> I can see the tx/rx lit up like a christmas tree, I guess I'm gonna have to reset.
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[22:02] <Laurenceb__> lol habmap killed firefox
[22:02] <Laurenceb__> seems theres still some cpu hog in there
[22:03] <lz1dev> probably the graphs
[22:03] <lz1dev> have the same hang on hmt
[22:03] <lz1dev> but now, if you have the graph closed, it won't update it
[22:03] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[22:03] <lz1dev> so it should be lighting fast
[22:03] <Laurenceb__> atm i cant manage to restart firefox
[22:05] <Laurenceb__> back to habitat maps
[22:05] <lz1dev> 1 point to habitat maps
[22:05] <lz1dev> yiesss
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[22:10] <craag_philcrump> habmap only renders the graph when you open it
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[22:12] <Laurenceb__> looks like either log points were breaking B-66
[22:12] <Laurenceb__> or someone submitted corrupt data
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[22:12] <Laurenceb__> US APRS system seems to be a mess
[22:15] <db_g6gzh> s/US //
[22:16] <Laurenceb__> the other systems dont randomly spew out nonsense
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[22:17] <mfa298> what we need is some sort of easy to impliment protocol using ISM transmitters that can be recieved by a distributed group of listeners maybe using a modified version of something like fldigi :p
[22:17] <db_g6gzh> I was mostly thinking of those that delay and upset e.g. aprs.fi
[22:18] <db_g6gzh> It's still quite useful though, even if sometimes a mess
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[22:25] <myier> if you fix the protocol or mode, you don't need fldigi I guess, and that would be good because it's just an old CPU greedy application
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[22:27] <myier> and anybody not wanting that mode would be stuck
[22:27] <mfa298> the benefit of using dl-fldigi is the flexibility in modes we can use.
[22:27] <myier> currently we have mainly two modes, RTTY and celestia, maybe a few others have flown
[22:28] <myier> yes
[22:28] <mfa298> people have done at least 4 different baud rates of rtty, DominoEX has been more common and a few people have played with other modes.
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[22:29] <mfa298> There's an android app that can do 50 and 300 baud rtty, but it doesn't (currently) work with 600 baud or 110 baud which have been used. and it doesn't decode ssdv packets
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[22:53] <cm13g09> so, I ordered something the other week online.... dispatched today via an international courier called Skynet..... great name :P
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[22:58] <amell> doing practice for an online recruitment test. i cant get this one. anyone know the answer? http://i.imgur.com/ytIB8Sd.png
[23:00] <amell> its annoying the heck out of me
[23:01] <myier> what's the question?
[23:01] <amell> see image link
[23:01] <adamgreig> looks like a stupid question
[23:01] <adamgreig> like it presumably assumes left to right reading, if nothing else
[23:01] <amell> top row is the series, which letter from bottom row matches? I dont get it
[23:02] <arko> i wonder how many smart people they've lost due to asking stupid questions
[23:02] <adamgreig> probably no one they wanted, if they're asking questions like that :P
[23:02] <myier> like the next one in the series?
[23:03] <arko> one of the smartest guys i know left a google interview because they started asking these stupid questions
[23:03] <arko> adamgreig: good answer haha
[23:03] <amell> im guessing its B
[23:05] <arko> what i dont understand is why they would bother asking these things in really high level jobs
[23:05] <adamgreig> or any job
[23:05] <arko> srsly
[23:06] <amell> it is for a high level job&
[23:06] <arko> but when you get to high level jobs its almost like a insult
[23:06] <amell> IT director for an FTSE250.
[23:06] <arko> like "clearly you have all these skills we need, but we need to you answer these jokes"
[23:06] <adamgreig> I wonder if you can construct multiple consistent arguments for different answers
[23:06] <arko> lol
[23:06] <adamgreig> maybe only one answer really is consistent
[23:07] <arko> from what i heard, google has stopped asking these
[23:07] <arko> apparently it wasn't helpful!
[23:07] <adamgreig> yea
[23:07] <adamgreig> though google have found their interview scores negatively correlate with job performance anyway
[23:07] <adamgreig> of people they let in, admittedly, so it's hard to tell
[23:07] <adamgreig> cambridge has the same problem
[23:08] <arko> not shocking
[23:08] <adamgreig> interview scores for admissions students negatively correlate with exam performance at the end of the course
[23:08] <adamgreig> which is terrible!!
[23:08] <adamgreig> like, that's awful
[23:08] <adamgreig> it means the interviews are worthless....
[23:08] <adamgreig> ...except that you can only see exam performance of the students you did let in, so it's impossible to know how the ones you didn't would have done
[23:09] <K9JKM> Chief goal in interviews is making it past the various levels of gatekeepers
[23:09] <amell> im a bit surprised theyve sent me this quiz to do& its taken me 2 hours so far to do the various assignments.
[23:09] <amell> should bill them for wasting my time
[23:09] <adamgreig> anyway i reckon B too
[23:09] <mfa298> I'd say it's B as well
[23:09] <amell> B is correct
[23:09] <adamgreig> but it's not quite right
[23:09] <adamgreig> which upsets me
[23:09] <amell> i think thats the point. its not supposed to be quite right.
[23:10] <arko> yeah B looks right
[23:10] <adamgreig> are we all going on "well the circle seems to swap corners every 2, and E doesn't look right because the cross is too far displaced, so.. B"
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> i always get piss poor marks on IQ style tests
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> i cant relate to them at all
[23:10] <amell> the trick seems to be looking at the changes in isolation, and reassembling them
[23:10] <Laurenceb__> just a bunch of weird diagrams that dont relate to anything
[23:11] <arko> assuming
[23:11] <arko> 1 2
[23:11] <arko> 3 4
[23:11] <mfa298> The cross also moves clockwise one square every 2 times so B
[23:11] <arko> 1->2, 2->4, 4->3
[23:11] <arko> bad numbering on my end
[23:11] <Laurenceb__> my IQ is usually extremely retarded
[23:12] <mfa298> I think these sorts of puzzles are supposed to determine how well you can spot patterns in how things chance - which could be a useful skill but it does seem an odd way of doing it.
[23:12] <amell> heres another one for your fun. http://i.imgur.com/k9ycrRC.png
[23:12] <arko> my second guess would be C
[23:13] <amell> i got them all right so thats something.
[23:13] <arko> bleh
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[23:13] <adamgreig> good job amell
[23:13] <amell> that was just the practice. I need to do the real timed test.
[23:13] <arko> im not wasting anymore time
[23:13] <arko> and not use irc ;)
[23:13] <amell> but first i need juice.
[23:13] <amell> yes. you guys are too slow anyway lol
[23:13] <arko> is this an iq test?
[23:13] <arko> i've never taken one
[23:14] <mfa298> I'd say E for that 2nd one
[23:14] <arko> or job interview?
[23:14] <K9JKM> Bourbon may make you more creative
[23:14] <amell> its a logical reasoning test
[23:14] <arko> :/
[23:14] <amell> mfa298: thats correct.
[23:14] <mfa298> what do I win ?
[23:14] <arko> cocane
[23:14] <amell> mfa298: the chance to kneel before leo at the conference?
[23:15] <amell> i had first interview, this is the test they want me to do before second all day interview.
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[23:18] <mfa298> well at least with this sort of thing it's a definitive correct or incorrect. I hate the job questionaire type things where they ask you to rate your skill level on various topics. Do you say your an expert in everything and hope they don't ask akward questions, or answer more truthfully and risk not getting past the gatekeepers
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[23:18] <amell> im straightforward with them, and just tell the truth. if they cant cope with that, then screw em.
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[23:21] <mfa298> same. I've tended to add a couple of sentences saying what I do know and where I know my knowledge is lacking. At least then they can gauge my skill against what they want and also see that I know my limitations so I'd hopefully then look for help if I need to go further.
[23:21] <amell> i think thats the right approach.
[23:21] <amell> people who oversell themselves, almost always come a cropper later.
[23:23] <mfa298> it's a bit like scotty on startrek. Always tell the captain a value that's twice as long as it should. That way it looks like you're a miracle worker.
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[23:24] <amell> yea, the dilithium is all used up.
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 7 2014