highaltitude.log.20140804

[00:00] <myier> yes, ok, I'll do that.
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[00:00] <amell> B-66 over land NOW!
[00:00] <qyx_> ok, bedtime
[00:00] <myier> good night, thank you very much
[00:00] <mfa298> making a groundplane antenna really shouldn't be too hard https://www.dropbox.com/s/07tx6xk8fbse4vl/2013-07-27%2016.55.53.jpg
[00:00] <Ian_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350410462675?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT pack of six
[00:01] <mfa298> that's the one I use for tracking at home and I can get a good range from that if there's no obstructions in the way
[00:01] <myier> ok
[00:02] <myier> I have some guitar strings Ian_
[00:02] <mfa298> that one is just using 1mm copper wire with some wooden skewers for supports
[00:02] <Ian_> The picture confused me for a moment. I'm used to seeing ground plane whips at the top of vertical poles, not on the end of a horizontal pole. I need to get out more :)
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[00:03] <mfa298> Ian_: the downside of being halfway up a block of flats. No where to put a vertical mast
[00:04] <mfa298> so it's horizontal dowel out the window instead
[00:04] <Ian_> There is always some joker about who will tell you where to place it :)
[00:05] <mfa298> I need the sales person that phoned up shortly after I moved in. He was phoning to see if I'd like them to quote for adding a conservatory onto my property.
[00:05] <mfa298> I really should have got them around to quote rather than pointing out it was a 6th floor flat.
[00:06] <amell> no reason why you cant add a conservatory is there?
[00:06] <amell> just need some big brackets.
[00:07] <Ian_> With guitar strings, I make the two half wavelength radials and bind with a filament of copper wire and solder, then attach the radiating element on the end of the coax with a bit of shrink wrap, so it passes in one of the corners and stick it in a blob of eurethane adhesive.
[00:08] <Ian_> A mate of mine got a double glazing rep excited until he found out that all the windows were a council block of flats. Similarly the mail shot that targeted an Army married quarters patch.
[00:09] <Ian_> Are you going to Greenwich?
[00:09] <mfa298> I'm going to the conference
[00:10] <Ian_> Find me and claim a jar of honey (that's three promissed)
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[00:10] <Ian_> at the conference.
[00:11] <mfa298> For VHF/UHF antenna building I keep thinking it could be worth finding a friendly electrician. Having had some in at work recently they generated a lot of off cuts of twin and earth. Most of them <1m but that would make for a lot of vhf/uhf antennas.
[00:12] <Ian_> Think of the airborne weight over that of using a guitar string.
[00:12] <mfa298> Chances are I'll be there with lots of radios (I think I took three last year as I was helping craag with the foundation exams)
[00:12] <Ian_> Good source of general cable though.
[00:12] <mfa298> I was thinking more as ground antennas rather than payload antennas.
[00:13] <Ian_> Their offcuts are very frequently quite generous. Same goes for cat5 cable as they want a run and don't join bits which might be 10m of an offcut on a good day.
[00:16] <mfa298> I managed to get a few offcuts from work of twin and earth. Most of it isn't that long as it was trimmings from the cable going into light fittings. But still plenty of copper. and a few longer lengths that could make some good inductors if I need them (might need to look at making an ATU)
[00:16] <Ian_> Must sort my travel arrangements. Bham to Victoria by coach I think then wing it on a London Card. I would drive, but would need a guarantee of a parking space at the hotel, which isn't possible - first come first served.
[00:17] <myier> I'll try soldering the ground radials now, let the fun begin
[00:19] Action: mfa298 should probably head to bed. I hadn't realised how late (/early) it was.
[00:20] <myier> good night, thank a lot to everybody!
[00:21] <Ian_> Good night.
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> Oh oh. B66. It's flying over trees.
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[00:44] <jaymzx> Starting to pick up B66 on APRS!
[00:44] <jaymzx> here at home
[00:45] <jaymzx> https://imgur.com/a/xm5g7#0
[00:47] <N2NXZ> Going to try once again to hear 66 on web tuner
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> jaymzx: :)
[00:50] <arko> N2NXZ: which one?
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[01:14] <myier> you were right, 2cm is enough to solder the ground radials
[01:15] <myier> I just have to bend the 4 of them and it's done
[01:15] <myier> (that the part when everything breaks off)
[01:18] <myier> good night
[01:20] <N2NXZ> Sorry,was involved,I am listening on Alger,Washington'
[01:20] <N2NXZ> http://www.remotehams.com/
[01:21] <N2NXZ> 100km from web tuner,but not hearing it
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[01:23] <Joki> If I have a GPS module with a passive antenna (such as ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68) then does the passive antenna need to be outside the housing of the high altitude balloon? Will having the antenna behind the case insulation be bad?
[01:23] <N2NXZ> I will stay on frequency with the remote and keep watching
[01:24] <N2NXZ> As far as I know,it will work in your styrofoam container
[01:24] <lz1dev> yep
[01:24] <lz1dev> best is to test your setup on the ground
[01:24] <N2NXZ> Absolutely
[01:25] <Joki> Ok... And this might seem like a silly question but does the orientation of the antenna matter? Is it supposed to point... Up?
[01:25] <N2NXZ> A few times
[01:25] <N2NXZ> Works sideways for me too
[01:25] <lz1dev> Joki: it shouldn't matter
[01:25] <N2NXZ> Be sure to test many times
[01:26] <N2NXZ> Which GPS did you get?
[01:26] <Joki> I've tested it a lot at ground level, and it works well. I suppose it would be a good idea to test it inside the styrofoam
[01:27] <Joki> I got the one I linked to above
[01:27] <N2NXZ> uBLOX MAX-7 Breakout With Quad-V Antenna for Arduino / 5V Microcontroller
[01:27] <Joki> Yep
[01:27] <N2NXZ> I have the same one,it seems to work even inside the cab of my truck.But it does not work well in my basement.
[01:28] <N2NXZ> Metal truck roof,so that is pretty good
[01:28] <N2NXZ> GPS antenna horizontal
[01:29] <N2NXZ> Almost ready for flight?
[01:29] <Joki> With that GPS do you get checksum failures very often? It seems like 15% of the NMEA sentences it outputs fail the checksum
[01:30] <N2NXZ> GPS seems to have good data string as does the transmitter.
[01:30] <N2NXZ> To my radio...looks good.
[01:31] <N2NXZ> Have you tested yours on dl-fldigi?
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[01:31] <N2NXZ> Maybe someone here can guide you better than me for creating your payload test
[01:31] <Joki> Out of interest, which radio do you use? I haven't started working on the radio yet as I don't have a proper radio receiver
[01:31] <N2NXZ> NTX2
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[01:32] <Joki> Yep, I got the same one. I assume it's working but have no way of checking yet :P
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[01:33] <N2NXZ> Guessing you started here. http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=617
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[01:33] <Joki> Yep that's the page. Useful wiki that one.
[01:34] <N2NXZ> Hurray...fianally copied M0XER-6
[01:35] <N2NXZ> M0XER-6 audio level = 162 [SINGLE] Audio input level is too high. Reduce so most stations are around 50. [0] M0XER-6>APRS66,WIDE2-1:!/6V;m/8<)O LmA%>iLVU@9KEY-(i+FVP9Na>m/A=045111|QAPC( 2?r!'| Position, BALLOON, Generic, (obsolete. Digis should use APNxxx instead) N 47 17.8762, W 123 35.7452, alt 45111 ft A%>iLVU@9KEY-(i+FVP9Na>m|QAPC(2?r!'|
[01:37] <Joki> Do you use RTTY or DominoEX?
[01:37] <N2NXZ> RTTY
[01:37] <N2NXZ> I am quite the newbie with this stuff,but managed to get through it finally.People here will help you.
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[01:38] <Joki> Don't worry, you've been helpful. I know what to do with the GPS now and that's all I needed
[01:39] <Joki> Thanks
[01:40] <N2NXZ> <Joki> Check here too. http://thehablab.com/blog/building-the-tracking-device-for-a-high-altitude-balloon-part-2-11
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[01:51] Nick change: jiffe98 -> jiffe
[01:56] <N2NXZ> Time for sleepy,all have a good day/night
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[02:34] <b0tz> Hi all, just wanted to say yay, just heard M0XER-6 here north of seattle :)
[02:34] <arko> nice
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[03:20] <nigelvh> b0tz: Yep. I'm picking it up as well.
[03:20] <nigelvh> Can see my igate on the map there.
[03:29] <arko> that sounds awesome
[03:31] <nigelvh> I was curious what B-66 had been up to.
[03:33] <arko> i was hopefuly it would show up here
[03:42] <jaymzx> No love for my igate yet :(
[03:44] <jaymzx> It's over Bangor at the moment. Looks like it may curve to go right overhead.
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[04:07] <jaymzx> Gated :)
[04:07] <nigelvh> woo
[04:07] <jaymzx> I moved the whole gate setup outside
[04:07] <jaymzx> RPi, kenwood HT, roll up j-pole heh
[04:10] <jaymzx> 3 now. Cool. I'll leave it set up here for a bit.
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[04:27] <nigelvh> jaymzx: Where you around again? I'm just in Shoreline.
[04:27] <jaymzx> Lake Forest Park
[04:27] <nigelvh> Ah, you're REALLY close then
[04:27] <jaymzx> indeed
[04:30] <jaymzx> b0tz is in Mukilteo, I think.
[04:32] <nigelvh> Interesting. Seems there's a few of us around here.
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[04:34] <jaymzx> There's a guy involved with the #HamWAN group who is a mile or two from me, too. We considered a 900MHz link, but he lacks LOS to the 5.8GHz broadband network...so...what's the point :)
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[04:34] <nigelvh> You're probably talking about Ben
[04:34] Action: nigelvh is a board member and admin for #HamWAN
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[04:35] <jaymzx> Indeed...Oh and you're the gentleman over by Bitter Lake, yes?
[04:35] <nigelvh> No, I'm right up here at the top of the hill by the water tower here in Shoreline.
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[04:39] <jaymzx> Ah. I gotcha. You run the -1 igate up the hill from me.
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[04:41] <nigelvh> Yup
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[05:21] <snelly> howdy
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[05:22] <snelly> I'm working on a console-based interface for balloon tracking and I'm curious what you guys think:
[05:22] <snelly> Q
[05:22] <snelly> oops
[05:22] <snelly> http://i.imgur.com/UMYa05D.png
[05:28] <jaymzx> I'm not a ballooning expert, but I think that looks good.
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[06:46] <cipherzero> So just to be clear, the "Volume" in this page is how uch helium I need right? http://habhub.org/calc/
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[06:50] <amell> yes
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[06:51] <amell> btw, its not accurate for small balloons of 100g ish
[06:51] <amell> i think many people use the randomengineering calculator.
[06:52] <mfa298> However when filling the neck lift is a much easier method to know when the baloon is full
[06:52] <mfa298> the volume field just lets you know how much gas you need to buy
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[06:56] <DL7AD_mobile> Morning
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[07:31] <cipherzero> neck lift?
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[07:43] <saadzmirza> hallo
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[07:51] <jaymzx> Reaching the edge of the green circle..starting to see more digis than direct packets. 45K HAAT does wonders for VHF heh
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[08:29] <F1VJQ> My capcha up word this morning was HABLERT
[08:29] <F1VJQ> made up word
[08:30] <LeoBodnar> high state of HABLERT for B-63
[08:31] <F1VJQ> B-63 just re-appeared!
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:31] <F1VJQ> yes, that's what I thought...HAB ALERT!
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was expecting it to be picked up by the next island
[08:31] <SpeedEvil> south of funchal
[08:32] <SpeedEvil> A lot of handy islands there
[08:33] <F1VJQ> EA8
[08:34] <F1VJQ> Tenerife
[08:35] <F1VJQ> southern tip "Costa del Silencio"....
[08:36] <F1VJQ> after Canaries, not much chance of APRS
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[08:39] <F1VJQ> GM PB0NER
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[08:55] <SpeedEvil> Bermuda, I guess
[08:57] <F1VJQ> triangle
[08:57] <F1VJQ> Morocco, Algeria, Libya....all unlikely places for APRS
[08:58] <F1VJQ> need a change of wind direction... B-64 turn north
[08:58] <F1VJQ> B-63 I mean!
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[09:07] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=8&call=a%2FCU2ARA-1&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> Sao miguel
[09:08] <F1VJQ> CU2ARA was yesterday
[09:09] <F1VJQ> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=6&call=a%2FEB8TO-5&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[09:11] <SpeedEvil> I don't think it picked it up at all
[09:12] <F1VJQ> M0XER-3 just turned north!! headed Funchal, Madeira
[09:12] <F1VJQ> That was the call given in the data
[09:14] <SpeedEvil> Sigh
[09:14] <SpeedEvil> I should not try to think todya
[09:16] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil just click any waypoint on APRS.fi and it shows where the receiver was.
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[09:23] <Laurenceb_> ooh B-63 is alive
[09:24] <SpeedEvil> you missed the 'muhahahha'
[09:25] <es5nhc> BTW, there appears to be quite nice tropo in Scandinavia this morning
[09:25] <es5nhc> Even I picked up SR P1 from Stockholm here in SE Estonia
[09:26] <es5nhc> Re B-63. These positions in Atlantic - log transmitted right now?
[09:27] <Laurenceb_> CT3FU-1 should get it soonish
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> 4 weeks for B-63 tomorrow morning
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[09:34] <SpeedEvil> es5nhc: yes
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> es5nhc: It's - well - it's just gone out of range - being picked up by a reciever on an island
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> It should be in Spain in several days
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Err - portugal first, of course.
[09:36] Action: SpeedEvil always forgets about portugal.
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[09:42] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil and hopefully France and then UK!!
[09:42] <F1VJQ> and another Circum whatsit for Leo
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[09:47] <gonzo__> B64 is going for a lap of honour!
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[09:47] <malgar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/159660_trj001.gif B-63 prediction
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> HJas some clever person upgraded the JS on http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ ?
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> Because it's doing 'this page is busy, do you want to stop the javascript' not at all today
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> I shouldn't have said that. :)
[09:48] <gonzo__> jinxed it
[09:49] <gonzo__> looks like B63 may be taking a track that has scant groundstation cover
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> Not as bad as 64 :)
[09:55] <Laurenceb_> lol looks like Caucuses and Seattle again
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Maybe sponsorship from the met office would be useful - it's a lot of data!
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[09:58] <Laurenceb_> ah mobile tracker has length and time now
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[10:06] <Laurenceb_> mobile tracker needs proper telemetry graphs
[10:09] <UpuWork> raise it as an issue
[10:10] <UpuWork> github
[10:10] <UpuWork> https://github.com/rossengeorgiev/habitat-mobile-tracker/issues
[10:10] <UpuWork> its under very active development atm
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> groovy
[10:13] <UpuWork> its going to replace the current spacenear.us tracker soon I hope
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[10:14] <myier> that's weird, the list of vehicle doesn't download automatically today
[10:14] <craag_philcrump> habmap will remain the indie choice ;)
[10:14] <edmoore> it is better
[10:14] <myier> oh finally I have it
[10:14] <Laurenceb_> ooh it has weather overlays
[10:15] <myier> it's funny that the australian balloon heads east, I thought it was reversed in the south hemisphere
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah it could benefit from telem graphs and a lat/long/altitude marker alongside the flight time and distance
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[10:19] <gonzo__> the two hemispheres do go the same way!
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if there is some property of Rossby waves that causes these "mirror" locations
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> UK, Caucuses, Seattle
[10:37] <amell> B-63 log replay in progress?
[10:37] <amell> what the actual fuck
[10:37] <amell> B-63 just teleported
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[10:40] <amell> oh its gone again, think theres some kind of strange issue with the new tracker when log gets filled in
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[10:50] <F1VJQ> amell you mean B-63?
[10:50] <amell> yes
[10:51] <F1VJQ> It's on the limit of range from Canary Islands
[10:51] <amell> when log is being filled,seems the tracker thinks the actual balloon has moved.
[10:51] <F1VJQ> on snus?
[10:51] <F1VJQ> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0XER-3&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[10:51] <amell> on the new mobile tracker
[10:52] <F1VJQ> ah... I don't use that... I couldn't get the prediction to work
[10:52] <amell> while i was watching, the balloon jumped to mid atlantic in one shot, then when i reloaded it was fine.
[10:53] <F1VJQ> amell - oh I see what you mean.... treating log data as current position....
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[10:53] <F1VJQ> at least it's loading log data
[10:54] <F1VJQ> doesn't look like any APRS on Madeira otherwise it would be in range right now
[10:55] <F1VJQ> and unless it changes course soon, we won't see it again for a day or so
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[10:58] <Laurenceb_> CT3FU-1 has a nice mast
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> should pick up B-63 once its due west
[11:03] <F1VJQ> Laurenceb_ but is his igate switched on?
[11:04] <F1VJQ> just reminded me to switch mine on!!
[11:05] <F1VJQ> He's active... last was weather report - Wind 180° 0.9 m/s (Gusts 5.8 m/s)
[11:07] <F1VJQ> CT3FU now receiving B-63 so we'll get some coverage for quite a few hours now
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> maybe even continuous to portugal
[11:11] <F1VJQ> possibly
[11:12] <F1VJQ> it will need to turn towards land though
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[11:20] <LeoBodnar> CT3FU-9 has just arrived home http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FCT3FU-9
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> from what seems like a church
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> heh
[11:26] <Laurenceb_> NSAPRS
[11:26] <Laurenceb_> seems a bit lazy, thats a couple of minutes walk
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[11:33] <Javier_> hi to all
[11:34] <Javier_> b-63 is on track to cross Spain
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[11:35] <Javier_> Do you know the b-63 beacon frequency
[11:36] <F1VJQ> 434.500
[11:36] <F1VJQ> Contestia 64/1000
[11:37] <Javier_> ok thanks F1VJQ
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[11:39] <Maxell> Javier_: good luck RXing :)
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[11:41] <Javier_> I will try the Rx, my QTH is Madrid
[11:41] <Maxell> Have you RXed HABs/B-balloons before?
[11:42] <Maxell> Need any help? :)
[11:44] <Javier_> It's the first time with a HAB ballon
[11:44] <Javier_> I have tracked and recovered weather sounding ballons
[11:45] <Javier_> I will try with a 6 elements yagy due to the TX low power
[11:46] <F1VJQ> Javier if you look at the spacenear.us map, the large blue ring shows the expected coverage to horizon. You are not likely to hear much beyond that...
[11:47] <Maxell> Oh, yes weather balloon tracking will help :)
[11:47] <Maxell> And a 6 elements yagi will help :)
[11:52] <DL7AD> hi
[11:54] <Maxell> hi there
[11:54] <Javier_> look to this http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-4.68,36.49,1511
[11:55] <DL7AD> hi Maxell Javier_
[11:55] <Javier_> it's the wind at 12000 m.
[11:56] <Javier_> Aprox the height of the b-63
[11:59] <F1VJQ> Oh dear!! Looks like B-63 may go round in circles based on those winds!
[12:00] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[12:02] <Javier_> F1JVQ yes, only if it goes to the South a little it can take the stream to go over the mediterranean
[12:05] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/161957_trj001.gif
[12:06] <DL7AD> B-63 seems rather not to stay in the circle
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[12:11] <b0tz> so I was out getting some things from the store and brought my d72a, was recieving B-66 packets often, got pics of it like 2 miles from me
[12:11] <b0tz> then didnt hear anything for ~2-3 mins and then it ended up on nearly the reciprocal direction
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[12:12] <b0tz> basically coming over the Puget sound eastward, had just crossed the water, as i was less then .1 of a mile from the waterfront. was cool to see it drift over
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[12:18] <LeoBodnar> so true null b0tz ?
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[12:20] <SpeedEvil> b0tz: 'got pics of' - you mean screencaps - or actual balloon images?
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[12:20] <on4bhm> LeoB are u here?
[12:21] <on4bhm> what do floaters use as gas? helium or hydrogen?
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[12:22] <SpeedEvil> It varies.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Both gasses work.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Hydrogen has advantages in that it's lighter, but helium is safer to use, as it's nonflammable.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Helium also leaks out a bit faster.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> All of the B* balloons from Leo are Helium.
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[12:23] <amell> helium leaks faster? hmmmm
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[12:23] <SpeedEvil> It's monatomic - not diatomic
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> So the effective diameter is smaller, though the atoms themselves are heavier
[12:24] <amell> ok yes
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> B-66 is H2
[12:24] <Laurenceb_> H2 flies twice as long in theory
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> H2 can be lots more annoying to buy.
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> Many people have reported firms being remarkably annoying selling it.
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[12:26] <edmoore> i've had zero problem getting hydrogen
[12:26] <craag_philcrump> compared to some of the other stuff you buy though, it's basically inert ;)
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it's probably attitude, knowing the right things to say, appearing professional, and hitting the right vendor - which may be more common in some places
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> Go in as an 18yo, nervous, and they're likely to think you're going to try to huff the stuff.
[12:27] <Laurenceb_> lol
[12:27] <edmoore> sure but it's still a low bar
[12:27] <adamgreig> huff hydrogen?
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> And yes.
[12:28] Action: amell suspects it might be correlated to whether you have a fag hanging out of your mouth or not.
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> better than huffing kittens
[12:28] <daveake> It's easy. Just get a BOC account and order some.
[12:28] <daveake> You can do both at once at your local depot or agent
[12:28] <edmoore> if you're some batty nerd who's clearly just crawled out from the internet nasally announcing you're going to make an n-prize rocket in their garden, perhaps you might have trouble
[12:28] <Darkside> lol
[12:29] <edmoore> but otherwise it's not too bad
[12:29] <Darkside> i liked your email
[12:29] <edmoore> which one?
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[12:30] <adamgreig> oh excellent
[12:30] <adamgreig> latest ukhas email tho
[12:30] <amell> wow. pressure valve email for ed to respond to.
[12:30] <on4bhm> we were planning on generating H2 from water
[12:30] Action: amell looks forward to reading tehe response.
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: you mean like this guy?
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> http://archive.today/RH4mB
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[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Alas all the pics are dead
[12:31] <Laurenceb_> http://img.archive.today/RH4mB/b38f41420b0076213fdf4385c5acad7f9afeee4c.jpg
[12:31] <edmoore> i shall respond to it helpfully
[12:32] <edmoore> it's quite achieveable
[12:32] <edmoore> just probably not by chris
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to view google groups without signing up to google nonsense?>
[12:32] <edmoore> as he seems to have a fear of actually doing something that doesn't involve buying half-understood things off the shelf and have them not really work
[12:32] <craag_philcrump> Laurenceb_: You can subscribe a normal email address
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: By google groups, do you mean an actual google group, or usenet?
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> i just wanted to view the list
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> i mean google groups
[12:33] <adamgreig> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> that
[12:33] <adamgreig> don't have to be signed in or anything
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> its asking me to sign in
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> shrug ill sign up
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> " Add your mobile phone number"
[12:34] <adamgreig> that's weird. not here. maybe it thinks you're a bot
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> f you google
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> ah it works now :D
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[12:34] <Laurenceb_> but google have some details :S
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it worked out your phone number, so it diddn't require it the second time
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> Takes it a few seconds sometimes.
[12:35] <Laurenceb_> haha
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[12:35] <edmoore> two-factor on gmail does give me some peace of mind
[12:35] <edmoore> not from guvmints, but from others
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> As long as you've not got anything dodgy on your account. Or of corporate interest they can automatically patten-match.
[12:36] <Laurenceb_> "Launch it and they will come."
[12:36] <Laurenceb_> heh
[12:36] <amell> congratulations, you just gave google your entire life
[12:36] <Laurenceb_> luckily it was almost all fake
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb is in fact an 85 year old 400 pound black woman from missisippi.
[12:36] <edmoore> yes, that this guy is spamming places asking about telemetry already is not a good sign
[12:37] <mattbrejza> he was asking here at some point too
[12:37] <edmoore> the sattelite bit trivial compared to the launcher
[12:37] <Laurenceb_> cart before horse
[12:37] Action: amell wonders if Speedevil and Laurenceb have had an online date yet
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> i'm damn sure I could make a satellite that'd work just fine for at least a couple of dozen orbits, first time.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> Launcher - hell no.
[12:38] <Laurenceb_> well some french IRC pervs think im a woman
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[12:38] <Laurenceb_> hilarity ensues
[12:38] <edmoore> yes, just remaking sputnik would do fine
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[12:38] <edmoore> an ntx2 and a 555
[12:38] <edmoore> voila
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[12:39] <edmoore> it's an afterthought compared to a launcher
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> haha last comment
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Indeed - add modular bits that don't affect core functionality until you're up to the weight budget
[12:40] <Laurenceb_> imo n-prize should be 5 gram satellite for £500
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Does quadcopter dropping it on top of falcon 9 count?
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> or maybe £5M, so people other than nutters get involved
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> heh
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> even google lunar x prize is just a bunch of nutters
[12:43] <edmoore> you might aswell launch a whole lot of things
[12:43] <edmoore> making a launcher to launch anything less than about 1kg is not going to scale well given the physical engineering constraints of an upper stage
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah, but its still a fun design challenge
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> http://www.arcaspace.com/
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> rofl
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Well - to a zeroth order, the constraints get relaxed a little if you're willing to have a sacrificial first stage that just suffices to get you to ~30km and mach 1 or so.
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> http://www.arcaspace.com/en/executor.htm
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> And stage often
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> nominative determinism
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> But the mass fraction much under 1kg is brutal - even with several stagings and uncritical orbits
[12:45] <edmoore> i'm not following
[12:45] <edmoore> it doesn't really matter about reusing first stages
[12:45] <edmoore> an the unit of a mass fraction is not the kg
[12:45] <edmoore> it has no units
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> I know - I'm expressing myself poorly.
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[12:46] <SpeedEvil> I was earlier (very earlier) looking at of the order of 125kg 0th stage, 25kg second, 5kg third.
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> And suspecting that I'd need to add a 625kg stage on to get 1kg payload
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[12:53] <b0tz> SpeedEvil yknow I had a idea when I was sitting in this open field watching it get cl oser
[12:53] <b0tz> to the makers of these balloons
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[12:53] <edmoore> which balloons?
[12:53] <b0tz> why dont you attach a beacon light inline with the solar cells, 30-60s intervals
[12:53] <b0tz> cant take that much power
[12:54] <b0tz> people like -seeing- things
[12:54] <edmoore> i imagine it'd be hard to see from 12000m
[12:54] <b0tz> I got pictures of B-66 balloon in relation to my HTs acquired GPS position SpeedEvil
[12:54] <b0tz> oh
[12:54] <b0tz> yeah, kinda
[12:54] <b0tz> derped there
[12:54] <b0tz> havent slept yet XD
[12:54] <edmoore> let alone the 30000m+ that latex balloons fly at
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Daveake and Upu did that on the flight that went over GCHQ as I remeber!
[12:54] <b0tz> oh
[12:54] <b0tz> srs
[12:54] <edmoore> b0tz, you have pictures of b66?
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[12:57] <b0tz> I have pictures of my HT screen of it 2miles away
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: not at night. (but that raises other issues)
[12:57] <b0tz> I saw it was going right close to my QTH position
[12:58] <b0tz> so I went to an open field about 100ft AGL higher
[12:58] <b0tz> overlooking a large section of water, clear view of sky SSW where it was originating from
[12:59] <edmoore> ok
[12:59] <edmoore> but not of the actual balloon
[12:59] <edmoore> i was just wondering, as that would be impressive if-so
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> It likely unfortunately needs an actual scope
[13:00] <b0tz> Yeah..
[13:00] <edmoore> this i reckoned
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Maybe binoculars under optimal conditions.
[13:00] <b0tz> have a DSLR
[13:00] <b0tz> still wouldnt see it
[13:00] <b0tz> XD
[13:00] <b0tz> well....
[13:00] <edmoore> unless it gets a good reflection
[13:00] <b0tz> I do have a 200m lens
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Well, depends on the lens :)
[13:00] <b0tz> mm
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> b0tz: diameter?
[13:00] <Dark-Fx> 200 METER lens?
[13:00] <b0tz> no, mm
[13:00] <b0tz> I could get a picture of it during the daytime MAYBE?! idk if it reflected sunlight
[13:00] <edmoore> habs are very visible in bright sunlight when they're up at 35+km
[13:00] <b0tz> really?
[13:00] <b0tz> darn
[13:00] <b0tz> wish it came over that close during day
[13:00] <b0tz> it was ~30miles out till sunset
[13:00] <F1VJQ> edmoore I think the latest B-** are clear
[13:00] <b0tz> then came in close
[13:01] <b0tz> the balloon tohugh?
[13:01] <b0tz> wont that reflect light a bit
[13:01] <edmoore> F1VJQ, sure, but that doesn't matter if the angles are right
[13:01] <b0tz> or not much at that height
[13:01] <edmoore> if the incident angle is correct between the sun, the balloon, and you, then you'll get total reflection
[13:02] <F1VJQ> edmoore I could not see one of Leo's when it came past just 6km away....hard as I stared!
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> you need >100mm aperture with appropriate magnification
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> then to be within 100km of ground track
[13:02] <edmoore> you can often miss them unless you're looking in exactly the right area
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> if my maths are right
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah, very hard to aim
[13:02] <edmoore> eg i missed a pair of ours a few years ago until i looked down the automatic tracking antenna mast yagis
[13:03] <edmoore> then they were clear as anything
[13:03] <edmoore> like daytime stars
[13:03] <edmoore> but it couldn't see them if given, say, an approximate 1.4th of the sky in which to find them
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: have you seen an iridium flare?
[13:03] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil no
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[13:04] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: Go and find one - they're awesome. Same (potential) effect - reflection off solar panels.
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> Or wait - was it transmitter antennas.
[13:04] <edmoore> solar panels
[13:05] <myier> it's not on solar panels for iridium, they have an aluminium polished body
[13:05] <edmoore> daveake, was it you who has the photo of another hab at high altitude just a bit below, in the frame?
[13:05] <edmoore> oh no speedevil is right
[13:05] <edmoore> it is the antennas
[13:05] <craag_philcrump> https://plus.google.com/photos/+PhilipCrump/albums/5930697361256004801
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> But they're the brightest object in the sky often for several seconds
[13:06] <craag_philcrump> https://plus.google.com/photos/+PhilipCrump/albums/5930701264198130753
[13:06] <craag_philcrump> Most of those photos are with the HAB at ~30km altitude
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> ooh nice
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> that setup would probably spot B-*
[13:07] <craag_philcrump> You could perhaps spot it, not get much detail though
[13:07] <edmoore> i'm pretty sure you just have to have it pointed well
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:07] <edmoore> which i'd automate
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> 1 or 2 pixels
[13:07] <edmoore> then have enough resolution on the dslr to zoom in
[13:07] <craag_philcrump> those balloons were ~10m across at burst
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-COjyqSOX9ZU/Uk4UJ7TJ4lI/AAAAAAAABh8/MgSITGgauBU/w168-h236-no/jl8b9411_01_cropped.jpg
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> but > 10 pixels
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[13:08] <Laurenceb_> you can make out detail of the envelope
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[13:08] <craag_philcrump> interestingly the third payload down on that string was one of Dave's white polystyrene balls
[13:09] <craag_philcrump> *third blob
[13:09] <craag_philcrump> so barely 10cm across
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> what can you see it?
[13:09] <craag_philcrump> maybe 15cm
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> oh wow
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> second link
[13:09] <craag_philcrump> yeah, second set
[13:10] <edmoore> that doesn't mean you're resolving it
[13:10] <edmoore> just means anough photons from it are landing within a pixel
[13:10] <craag_philcrump> oh yeah
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> On nighttime LEDs - a magnitude 4 star is 1nW/m^2 or so. A green-blue LED is about 25% efficient, and so that's 5nW/m^2 required. To cover a quarter of the sphere from a 12km balloon needs 144km^2 * 3 = 450km^2. Call it a round billion square meters. That's 4W or so LED required.
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> 4W pulses to a LED emitting in an angle of 120 degrees should be quite visible.
[13:10] <craag_philcrump> Even the larger payload and parachute aren't really any shape
[13:10] <craag_philcrump> just brighter pixels
[13:11] <craag_philcrump> The balloon in the last photo was visible by naked eye
[13:11] <craag_philcrump> bright orange in the sunset against an almost pitch black sky
[13:12] <edmoore> i do remember there being quite a lot of chat about using the balloon as reflectors for optical downlinks
[13:12] <edmoore> a high power red LED with OOK
[13:12] <craag_philcrump> I think fsphil has something hooked together for that
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: red _sucks_
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[13:12] <edmoore> but i think physics prevailed
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Red sucks for human eye, but not so much for detectors
[13:12] <edmoore> i.e. lower wavelengths are much easier
[13:13] <edmoore> longer*
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about 808nm laser diodes, with a nice filter.
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[13:16] <fsphil> IR would be better again
[13:17] Nick change: nick___ -> nick_
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[13:17] <edmoore> ir not so good in the atmosphere
[13:17] <edmoore> depnding on which bit of ir anyway
[13:18] Action: mfa298 reads scrollback then realises craag_philcrump has already made the point I was about to make.
[13:19] <mattbrejza> you could cover the balloon in liquid crystal and modulate the reflected sunlight
[13:19] <mattbrejza> only a few minor issues
[13:19] <edmoore> details
[13:20] <fsphil> hehe, the US military did something similar
[13:20] <fsphil> only with lasers and retroreflectors
[13:20] <fsphil> the ultimate low power data link (on the payload side anyway)
[13:22] <edmoore> they earliest comms sats were reflectors
[13:22] <edmoore> the echo balloon
[13:22] <edmoore> balloons*
[13:23] <edmoore> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Echo
[13:23] <edmoore> E-S-E comms
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> ^on a related point to google groups.
[13:23] <daveake> <edmoore> daveake, was it you who has the photo of another hab at high altitude just a bit below, in the frame?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> I note now that it's another couple of clicks to get to google groups from the google search page.
[13:23] <daveake> If you mean one hab from another, yes that's me
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> I suspect google groups is going away soon
[13:23] <edmoore> have you a handy link to it?
[13:23] <daveake> sure 1 sec
[13:24] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=734
[13:24] <daveake> Some others lower down on http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=715
[13:25] <edmoore> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IMG_3444.jpg
[13:25] <edmoore> ta
[13:25] <Maxell> Finnaly got my vertical up! http://i.sigio.nl/5e031f4059ff3fe45d3956e011be856f.jpg http://i.sigio.nl/46fa24025867bb9ebdfdfd7df9fd8d02.jpg and http://i.sigio.nl/c7832a60e65041040eb1e1ceffd311bc.jpg
[13:25] <edmoore> the translucent quality is less pronounced in this photo actually
[13:25] <Maxell> after 2 years of habbing :P
[13:25] <edmoore> than i remembered
[13:25] <myier> if all goes well, we should have a film of a balloon going up as seen from a small plane in 3 weeks
[13:26] <Maxell> I wonder if it will outpreform the remote rx I setup at revspace
[13:26] <daveake> Yeah you can see the sun shining off the outside then again from the opposite inside
[13:26] <myier> he won't be able to follow it very long at a 5m/s ascent rate though
[13:26] <daveake> That was a fun day
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[13:28] <MaXimaN> Maxell: Will that severed leg in the second picture interfere with reception? ;)
[13:29] <Maxell> MaXimaN: no, in fact it is required for proper antenna tuning.
[13:30] <MaXimaN> Ahhh... so the lambda symbol doesn't stand for wavelength, it stands for "leg". Got it.
[13:30] <MaXimaN> That appears to be a quarter wave-leg.
[13:30] <Maxell> You also have to keep your tongue at the right angle for 1:1 SWR!
[13:30] <MaXimaN> :D
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[13:31] <Maxell> They also supply shoelace dipoles XD
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[13:34] <N2NXZ_> Great images from you guys!
[13:35] <edmoore> finding old galleries is fun sometimes
[13:36] <edmoore> e.g. pegasus V, over 7 years ago
[13:36] <edmoore> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/sets/72157600160879866/
[13:36] <edmoore> james didn't have a bald patch back then
[13:37] <adamgreig> some things don't change, still got the same launch kit box
[13:37] <edmoore> this is still my canonical example of why parachutes should be bright ornage
[13:37] <edmoore> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/478718274/in/set-72157600160879866
[13:37] <UpuWork> or pink
[13:37] <edmoore> no that's steve's adamgreig
[13:37] <edmoore> i don't like pink
[13:37] <adamgreig> huh
[13:37] <adamgreig> pink?
[13:37] <adamgreig> oh, right
[13:37] <edmoore> it's a similar stanley model though
[13:38] <adamgreig> looks very similar alright
[13:39] <edmoore> it might even be the same one
[13:39] <edmoore> fat max
[13:40] <edmoore> i made the launch box a year or so later
[13:40] <edmoore> presumably most of that info is out of date now
[13:40] <edmoore> e.g. calling peter kirwan
[13:41] <edmoore> on the laminated inventory/emergency numbers sheet
[13:41] <adamgreig> haha yea
[13:41] <edmoore> we also had a laminated copy of the notam
[13:41] <adamgreig> I still have a printed out copy
[13:41] <edmoore> just incase the tower asked which they did on a few occassions
[13:44] <N2NXZ_> "highly inflammable" ...ha ha ha :)
[13:44] <edmoore> yes i was hung over that day
[13:44] <edmoore> as with most cambridge launches
[13:44] <edmoore> they happened on a saturday after college brunch
[13:46] <Maxell> I did found this crusty old Fritzl balun and isolators http://i.sigio.nl/424dd95458b006fbdc63e6426cb25c2c.jpg
[13:46] <Maxell> Fritzl? :P Fritzel
[13:48] <N2NXZ_> crusty,but possible useful?
[13:49] <mightymik> clean it up a bit and see
[13:52] <N2NXZ_> Found something like that last summer,except it was indoors in an attic. http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq22/N2NXZ/DSCF0047.jpg
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[13:53] <Maxell> The isloators are still in good shape, the balun' PL-connector is completly eaten by mother nature.
[13:55] <Maxell> N2NXZ_: hah, thats made out of pottery?
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[13:56] <Maxell> N2NXZ_: and indoors so in good schape.
[13:56] <Maxell> shape
[13:56] <mightymik> looks like something from the 1920s
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[14:02] <Maxell> http://pa0fri.home.xs4all.nl/Ant/Fritzel%20trap&balun/fritzel%20trap&bal%20eng.htm on the end of the page
[14:02] <Maxell> Might be able to replace the broken connector.
[14:03] <Maxell> Would require some dremel-action though
[14:05] <N2NXZ_> Had to walk to dog,but yes,great shape,al;ways a sucker for old stuff.
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[14:06] <N2NXZ_> I finally found the battery pack for my next payload! http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq22/N2NXZ/IMG_8646_zpsc7014125.jpg
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[14:10] <Maxell> lol, "nine lives"
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[14:11] <N2NXZ_> Brings back memories
[14:15] <N2NXZ_> Now here are old batteries!! http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq22/N2NXZ/DSCF0001-2.jpg
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[14:17] <edmoore> ouch
[14:17] <aadamson> N2NXZ_, I don't think those are all that old... rusty yes, but the one on the right is just a green labeled radioshack 9v isn't it:?
[14:18] <Dark-Fx> I think one of your batteries might be bad
[14:18] <N2NXZ_> Sure is!!
[14:18] <N2NXZ_> Poorly kept
[14:18] <Dark-Fx> you should probably sue eveready, it appears to be leaking
[14:18] <N2NXZ_> That is on a homebrew 2/6m AM transceiver...now residing in a Museum in Blloomfield NY
[14:20] <edmoore> not so ready
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[14:23] <N2NXZ_> Amazing what guys used to build in the day,same radio with rusty batts > http://s430.photobucket.com/user/N2NXZ/media/DSCF0010-2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=243
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> lol eveready cat
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> i remember it from 30 years ago
[14:26] <N2NXZ_> me too
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[14:28] <edmoore> wrong vintage for me
[14:28] <edmoore> i'm the energizer-bunnie generation
[14:29] <Laurenceb_> http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq22/N2NXZ/P1220822.jpg
[14:29] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
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[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Clearly a non-newtonian drive.
[14:33] <N2NXZ_> ha ha
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[14:34] <N2NXZ_> Heading to our property,that antenna ironically is now on my roof with added 7-element 70cm just 2 weeks ago
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[14:44] Nick change: jaymzx -> jaymzx_away
[14:44] <molo> LeoBodnar: any information on your custom envelopes available?
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[15:12] <jededu> ping upu
[15:12] <UpuWork> hi jededu got the board
[15:12] <UpuWork> will test this evening
[15:13] <jededu> upu pm
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[16:17] <yo9ict> Hi guys
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> hey
[16:17] <yo9ict> I have ordered the DRF4463. Anyone used this type ?
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[16:25] <yo9ict> No one? :(
[16:28] <snelly> hey guys
[16:28] <snelly> I am working on a console-based balloon chasing app for my GoBalloon project. I am interested in your feedback/thoughts:
[16:28] <snelly> http://i.imgur.com/FhDeam3.png
[16:29] <mfa298> snelly: what's it using as a data source?
[16:30] <snelly> mostly my tnc-server and gpsd: https://github.com/chrissnell/tnc-server
[16:30] <snelly> but I may also incorporate APRS-IS at some point
[16:30] <edmoore> is your bearing based on velocity?
[16:30] <adamgreig> snelly: hehe cute, what are you writing it in?
[16:30] <edmoore> go
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Why console-based?
[16:31] <edmoore> at a guess
[16:31] <mfa298> probably of less use to the UK people as there's limited use of aprs for flights within the UK.
[16:31] <adamgreig> lol of course
[16:31] <edmoore> given it says 'go' everywhere
[16:31] <adamgreig> does go have a nice curses interface?
[16:31] <snelly> edmoore: bearing is from GPS
[16:31] <snelly> adamgreig: Go
[16:31] <snelly> SpeedEvil: I hate web apps
[16:32] <edmoore> bearing in terms of absolutes might be useful too
[16:32] <edmoore> eg NE
[16:32] <snelly> adamgreig: I use termbox-go
[16:32] <adamgreig> snelly: I hope F7 cutdown has a confirmation screen!
[16:32] <edmoore> because when you've parked the car as you often do chasing, bearing based on velocity is a bit meaningless
[16:32] <snelly> heh, of course
[16:32] <edmoore> screencaps from retina macbooks look enormous on normal screens
[16:33] <snelly> edmoore: not following you here...are you referring to "COURSE:" on the screen?
[16:33] <snelly> or the bearing under CHASERS
[16:33] <edmoore> under chasers
[16:33] <edmoore> so you can say
[16:33] <snelly> ahhh
[16:33] <snelly> That's the great circle route initial bearing
[16:33] <edmoore> 'the payload is 40km NNE of me)
[16:33] <snelly> yes
[16:33] <edmoore> ah right
[16:33] <snelly> that's computed from the location of the balloon and the real-time location of the chase console's gpsd
[16:33] <edmoore> it *is* that then
[16:33] <edmoore> ok
[16:33] <edmoore> i thought it was relative to your intrinsic heading
[16:34] <edmoore> like 'the balloon is 40km at my 4 o'clock'
[16:34] <snelly> no, but I was thinking about doing that, too
[16:34] <snelly> exactly
[16:34] <edmoore> it's often useful to have both
[16:34] <edmoore> but it's different usecases
[16:34] <snelly> indeed
[16:34] <edmoore> shack vs car or whatever
[16:35] <edmoore> elev delta has perhaps a funny sign
[16:35] <edmoore> but that might just be because it's garbage data?
[16:35] <snelly> funny sign?
[16:35] <snelly> the -?
[16:35] <edmoore> -800
[16:36] <snelly> Yeah, "-800 ft/min"
[16:36] <snelly> I should add units and also do delta/time
[16:36] <edmoore> ah, it's a velocity
[16:36] <edmoore> ok
[16:36] <edmoore> one thing for chasing that i find v useful is to have the sea-level descent rate
[16:36] <edmoore> calculated from the current descent rate
[16:37] <edmoore> that can give a useful intuition about how the descent is going (if the chute has inflated properly or whatever)
[16:37] <snelly> I might do an "estimated time to my current elevation"
[16:37] <snelly> to estimate how long it will be until it reaches the elevation of the chaser
[16:37] <edmoore> yeah that'd be useful
[16:38] <edmoore> i generally like it though
[16:38] <snelly> it's part of a bigger package i'm working on: https://github.com/chrissnell/GoBalloon
[16:39] <edmoore> ok
[16:39] <edmoore> beaglebone is pretty heavyweight
[16:39] <snelly> well, a couple of ounces
[16:40] <edmoore> my metric wasn't weight
[16:40] <edmoore> but power consumption
[16:40] <edmoore> like, it's 100x more than you need to do what you've listed in the readme, but equally it might give you a lot of room to experiment with things like video
[16:40] <snelly> I guess we'll see. I'm not trying to set any records. Just having fun with some code
[16:41] <snelly> edmoore: it was lightest ARM platform that I could easily find. ARM being a requirement to run the Go binary
[16:42] <snelly> rather, lightest ARM+Linux
[16:42] <edmoore> ah, so it's fun-with-go more than fun-with-balloons :)
[16:42] <edmoore> (which is fine!)
[16:42] <snelly> it's both. why wouldn't it be fun with balloons? :)
[16:42] <edmoore> fair enough
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[16:43] <LeoBodnar> does Go need at least 32 bit platform to run?
[16:43] <LeoBodnar> is it like Flash?
[16:44] <edmoore> it's garbage collected and assumes an operating system
[16:44] <snelly> LeoBodnar: it's not at all like Flash
[16:44] <edmoore> so sort of
[16:44] <snelly> but it doesn't run on 16 or 8-bit as far as I know
[16:44] <edmoore> snelly, you've basically walked into a den of people who write bare-metal c or asm for 8-bit micros
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[16:45] <snelly> oh, I know :)
[16:45] <snelly> I'm working my way up to that
[16:45] <edmoore> down surely
[16:45] <edmoore> :)
[16:45] <edmoore> well at least with the beaglebone you can do things like send pictures down very easily
[16:46] <edmoore> no real cpu contraints to process images and turn them into audio
[16:46] <adamgreig> I wanna try Rust on a balloon
[16:46] <adamgreig> it's like C but safe and happy
[16:46] <adamgreig> can run without an operating system on bare metal
[16:46] <snelly> I don't plan on doing much image processing until I recover the balloon
[16:46] <snelly> My main goal was to experiment with Go and APRS
[16:46] <adamgreig> sounds like fun!
[16:46] <snelly> I wanted to see if I could build a high-altitude digi
[16:47] <adamgreig> haha be prepared for hams everywhere to go nuts
[16:47] <mfa298> also I think the BBB may have a better power system and onboard eMMC so solves two of the issues with using a Pi.
[16:47] <edmoore> it's definitely better than a pi
[16:47] <adamgreig> yes probably you'll have a much happier time than using a pi
[16:47] <snelly> If this all works out, I want to see if I can write an aprx clone in Go
[16:47] <edmoore> the Pi is pretty crap from an EE pov
[16:47] <snelly> The Pi is garbage
[16:47] <snelly> the power supply is so flaky
[16:47] <edmoore> but it gets you the twitter followers, and I'm slowly learning the painful way that doing stuff for noble engineering reasons is not what counts
[16:48] <snelly> haha
[16:48] <mfa298> the B+ looks to be better (at least in terms of power)
[16:48] <adamgreig> depends who you're looking to please edmoore :P
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> also I think the BBB may have a better power system
[16:49] <mfa298> the biggest advantages of the Pi are cheap, easy to get hold of and large community (which is good for those starting out with such things)
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> i lolled
[16:49] <snelly> I'm also doing this because Go is pretty popular right now and there aren't enough cool embedded projects being done with it
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> it does... but it needs a _lot_ of fixes
[16:49] <edmoore> yes the BBB seems to be hard to get hold of
[16:49] <edmoore> but the price was similar
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> mine is now sleeping on 500µA
[16:49] <snelly> yes, the BBB has some serious supply issues
[16:49] <edmoore> snelly, there might be a reason for that!
[16:49] <snelly> I found mine at Radio Shack
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> and has battery voltage monitoring and charge etc
[16:49] <snelly> I went around to all the Radio Shacks and bought every one I could find
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> but it needed quite a few board mods
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> snelly: try dealxtreme
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> they do actually ship
[16:50] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: Is the BBB smps based or linear regulator (if you can remember) ?
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[16:50] <Laurenceb_> both
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> it has a really nice PMIC
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> but the drivers and board design are both a bit lacking
[16:50] <edmoore> adamgreig, trying to please the gods of good taste
[16:50] <snelly> Laurenceb_: have you figured out how to read the actual input voltage on the BBB?
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> yes
[16:51] <snelly> like, the supply voltage that you're powering the board with?
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> yes
[16:51] <mfa298> that sound like an improvment over the Pi (at least the A/B) which is all LDO
[16:51] <snelly> do tell. :)
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> you need to stick a jumper from pmic pin16 to AIN7
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> and remove R163
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> then you add
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> #!/bin/sh
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> echo cape-bone-iio > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.9/slots
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> i2cset -f -y 0 0x24 0x09 0x01
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> to bootup
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> voltage is available in /sys/devices
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[16:52] <snelly> holy crap. where did you find this? i've been searching for days
[16:53] <edmoore> it all seems so batty to fight all this heavyweight operating system stuff to do extremely low-level things
[16:53] <edmoore> it might just be my perception
[16:53] <snelly> I figured I would just put a INA219 on a cape to measure it
[16:53] <snelly> edmoore: I'm not good at C or ASM
[16:54] <edmoore> it was more a comment on the pain of just measuring a supply voltage
[16:54] <edmoore> i mean look at that
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[16:55] <edmoore> it's practically eye-of-newt and tow-of-frog
[16:55] <edmoore> and a lot of stuff that looks like it requires a lot of reference to documentation distributed among several sources
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[16:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> it took me a few days to work that out
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> but fixing the power supply sequencing was an even bigger headache
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> i should document everything at some point
[16:56] <edmoore> you won't
[16:56] <N2NXZ_> Just figured out how to produce clouds!!
[16:56] <edmoore> this is how it workas
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[16:56] <N2NXZ_> Test your your solar cells
[16:56] <snelly> Laurenceb_: how are you jumnpering from the PMIC? Is it exposed on the two main headers?
[16:57] <Dark-Fx> N2NXZ_: I can make it rain by washing my car
[16:57] <N2NXZ_> ha ha
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> snelly: no chance
[16:57] <edmoore> i must say though
[16:57] <edmoore> https://github.com/chrissnell/tnc-server/blob/master/tnc-server.go
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> you need to solder to the side of the ic
[16:57] <N2NXZ_> Or make it snow by ..shoveling
[16:57] <edmoore> i've never looked at go
[16:57] <snelly> Laurenceb_: oh man.
[16:58] <edmoore> but i can see how you set up a connection there, and i can see it's 10^4 times cleaner than C
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> snelly: get out the microscope :D
[16:58] <SpeedEvil> snelly: Laurenceb has been looking at this very recently - he's not magic.
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[16:59] <snelly> Laurenceb_: that's wild. I think I might opt for the INA219 on the cape
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> i still need to fix RTC
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> that involves kernel patches
[16:59] <edmoore> snelly, are you designing the cape yourself?
[16:59] <Laurenceb_> i decided to put that off for now
[16:59] <snelly> I'm a little nervous about flying something that has my soldering on an IC :P
[16:59] <snelly> edmoore: yep
[16:59] <edmoore> awesome
[17:00] <edmoore> well, this channel is a great place for circuit design and layout critiques
[17:00] <edmoore> especially when I'm not on it
[17:00] <snelly> sweet. i will definitely hit you guys up
[17:00] <snelly> do most of you use Eagle?
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> hopefully there will be a B7 BBB revision at some point...
[17:00] <edmoore> yes
[17:00] <edmoore> I'm soon to defect though
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> i passed on all my mods to the developers
[17:00] <edmoore> eagle 7 has stupid licensing
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
[17:01] <SpeedEvil> B63 has a bit more of the track filled in
[17:02] <snelly> edmoore: yeah it does
[17:02] <edmoore> used it for work, but i'll use kicad for a couple of personal projects
[17:02] <edmoore> and then hopefully slide work over
[17:02] <edmoore> which is to say, james, as we're the only two that do electronics
[17:03] <edmoore> and he's keen too, we're just concious of having several products being supported atm all built with eagle
[17:03] <Dark-Fx> do you use more than two layers or boards larger than 4x3.2""?
[17:03] <edmoore> oh we have proper copies
[17:03] <edmoore> i couldn't do a lot of stuff i do without more than 2 layers
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[17:04] <Dark-Fx> even personal projects?
[17:04] <edmoore> yes
[17:05] <edmoore> but my personal projects do sometimes involve fairly high density BGA parts
[17:05] <Dark-Fx> ah. I wish I had the level of knowledge to be able to do stuff that complicated
[17:05] <edmoore> and lots of impedance controlled channels where i don't like having the microstrips be really wide from 1.6mm of separation from the ground plane
[17:05] <Dark-Fx> though I don't do anything electronics in my day job so I don't get practice
[17:05] <edmoore> Dark-Fx, well hang around here
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> snelly: well... i say fixing RTC involves kernel patches, but there is the "consumer API" under linux for changing PMIC settings from userspace
[17:05] <edmoore> i learnt electronics for hab when an student
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> i need to learn how to use it
[17:06] <edmoore> it's now 8 (sigh) years later and I'm much happier with electronics, despite no real formal training
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> heh same here
[17:07] <edmoore> yeah
[17:07] <edmoore> we sort of virtually grew up together
[17:07] <edmoore> on this channel
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> :P
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> accept i never actually grew up
[17:07] <edmoore> back when it was just like 5 of us
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> i wonder what the record is now?
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[17:08] <Laurenceb_> there was 218 a couple of days ago
[17:08] <edmoore> well into the 200s i think
[17:08] <jededu> 1st flight tomorrow at 9:00 100g pawan PIC tracker running BASIC hope to get to 23,000
[17:08] <edmoore> anyway Dark-Fx, stick around
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> basic stamp?!
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[17:08] <edmoore> try and make a hab flight computer
[17:09] <edmoore> the free version of eagle is absolutely plenty for making really quite sophisticated flight computers
[17:09] <edmoore> and all sorts of projects
[17:09] <jededu> stamp?
[17:09] <edmoore> you'll know when you need for layers, don't worry about it for now
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> oh ill take that as a no then
[17:10] <edmoore> it might be bascom Laurenceb_
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> you are let off
[17:10] <edmoore> oh no that was AVR
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> hahah trolol
[17:10] <edmoore> or picaxe
[17:10] <edmoore> snelly, anyway the curses thing looks cool
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> their RS232/stereo jacks are useful
[17:10] <edmoore> carry on
[17:10] <edmoore> i don't like stereo jacks for comms
[17:10] <edmoore> they're good because they're cheap
[17:11] <edmoore> they have nothing else to recommend them
[17:11] <jededu> micromite.org
[17:12] <qyx_> oh, reminds me
[17:12] <qyx_> pymite
[17:12] <qyx_> or python-on-a-chip
[17:12] <edmoore> yes i saw that
[17:12] <edmoore> or soemthing similar
[17:13] <edmoore> kinda cool i guess? still not sure i see the point really
[17:13] <edmoore> the kind of python i write would really not lend itself to embedded
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[17:13] <edmoore> but you could write C in python and that might work better
[17:13] <edmoore> but... then there's just C
[17:14] <snelly> edmoore: thanks
[17:14] <gurgalof> python on computers and C on microcontrollers
[17:14] <gurgalof> the best combination
[17:14] <edmoore> that's always been my M.O.
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> arm asm all the way
[17:15] <edmoore> but all these alternatives exist because there seems to be such an appetite out there to avoid learning C
[17:15] <qyx_> Laurenceb_: finish your gps!
[17:15] <edmoore> arm asm, well, thumb 2, is pretty nice i think
[17:15] <edmoore> yeah Laurenceb_ , finish your gps
[17:15] <edmoore> (what gps?)
[17:16] <qyx_> i should finish f401 & se4110 board
[17:16] <qyx_> edmoore: software receiver for stm32
[17:16] <edmoore> oh yes
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> at one point i was working on arm asm gps...
[17:16] <edmoore> the one doing the correlation on the cpu
[17:16] <edmoore> leaving you with 0.001% cpu time for tracking
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> got as far as good benchmarks with the core correlation, yeah
[17:16] <edmoore> i remember now
[17:16] <Laurenceb_> lol
[17:16] <edmoore> (*real numbers might have been dramatized for effect)
[17:17] <edmoore> yes infact i had a play with that myself
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[17:17] <edmoore> but it's a lot of fannying around to save using a small fpga
[17:17] Nick change: qyx -> qyx__
[17:18] <qyx__> meh broken interwebs
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah its only of value if you want really small pcb or epic asm skillz
[17:18] <jededu> Can somone approve this flight doc please 3c63ea1663fa8d9bae785c5eed4b5543
[17:18] <qyx__> i was rather considering <10e tracker
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah, or really cheap
[17:18] <edmoore> you could use the rest of the fpga to do convolutional FEC
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[17:18] <qyx__> 4e arm, 2e rf frontend, 1e transmitter + battery
[17:18] <edmoore> qyx__, yes fair enough
[17:19] <qyx__> + stuff
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> well its def doable
[17:19] <edmoore> those none of those 1-bit front ends are mega cheap
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[17:19] <edmoore> oh?
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> but its a bit of a nightmare
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[17:19] <edmoore> is that in qty?
[17:19] <qyx__> in 1pcs quantitiy
[17:19] <qyx__> stm32f401 are really cheap even on farnell
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> opennav makes it more doable
[17:19] <edmoore> i must have used an expensive one
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> but it still needs to be ported
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> and have an interface "layer" added
[17:20] <qyx__> STM32F401CCU6 for example, 4.26e/1, 3.91e/10
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> sorry - swift nav
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> http://swift-nav.com/piksi.html
[17:20] <edmoore> oh
[17:20] <edmoore> i did wonder
[17:20] <edmoore> yes i'm familiar with it given it was founded by 2 cusf people
[17:20] <edmoore> :p
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> but swift nav doesnt have FFT based aquisition
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> i cant spell
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[17:21] <Laurenceb_> software correlation acquisition would take forever, so it would need swift nav aqu code rewrite
[17:21] <edmoore> sure but assumptions about algorithm complexity get flakey when you can design hardware
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> yes
[17:22] <edmoore> but like, gps isn't *that* hard
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[17:23] <edmoore> you can write a c receiver from scratch fairly easily
[17:24] <qyx__> piksi oem module for $525? huh
[17:24] <edmoore> doing the asm optimising is harder, i think, than any aspect of aquisition and tracking
[17:25] <edmoore> maybe that's just me wearing the hat of someone fairly happy with dsp and less happy with the m4 architecture
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> lol looks like everyone done their version of GPS sampler, i have two :D
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> one with nats`
[17:26] <edmoore> i have several :)
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> none finished
[17:26] <qyx__> someone should also do unpack-compile-flash firmware
[17:26] <edmoore> none of which have been touched for over a year
[17:26] <LeoBodnar> haha
[17:26] <edmoore> the talk i gave at ukhas conf was the first time i'd revisited it for several months
[17:27] <edmoore> and haven't touched it seince
[17:27] <edmoore> qyx__, it's open source
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> you need another talk
[17:27] <edmoore> but also we were just discussing how that's not really the hard bit
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> devil is in the details
[17:27] <edmoore> you don't need to tell me that
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> i was making sure that you know that i know that you know
[17:28] <edmoore> getting all the coordinate transforms and time stamps all commuting correctly such that the cluster of pins is on you and not 5km down the road, or moscow, is tricky
[17:28] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: m4 asm is really nice
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> basically handling all possible permutations of exceptions
[17:29] <edmoore> yes
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> which is what life really is
[17:29] <edmoore> and knowing when to grab new sats and let old ones dissappear is also just 'stuff' that needs to be done somewhat carefully
[17:29] <edmoore> even if not the sexy bit
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> outside the lab doors
[17:30] <edmoore> i'm still pleased with this one a lot
[17:30] <edmoore> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q3fxkqgsfqd2nw/beforeafter.png
[17:30] <edmoore> same dataset, green was with PLLs for tracking, orange was with the kalman filter
[17:31] <edmoore> they're 1-std-dev ellipses
[17:31] <edmoore> orange is bang on the windowsill of my office
[17:31] <edmoore> (but i'm not sure google earth is as accurate as all that so could just be coincidence)
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> uncertainty ellipse may reveal your poistion vs the window
[17:32] <edmoore> the principle components of the ellipse are different because the kalman filter gives more confidence to certain satts
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[17:42] <F1VJQ> Dark-Fx My wife make it rain by hanging the washing out
[17:43] <Dark-Fx> yeah, that works too
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[17:51] <F1VJQ> There's a lot of "ripple" on B-64 path around the oceans....
[17:52] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I see more gaps filled from log since earlier today... is log data still being updated?
[17:52] <F1VJQ> especially around that U turn in mid Atlantic
[17:53] <F1VJQ> Funchal will still be receiving for some time yet
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[18:05] <F1VJQ> at 37 km/h it will take hours to go out of range!
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[18:06] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: IIRC it's got a 5 day log, so not all of it will be
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> From the look of the hysplits - it was likely wandering around out there for a while
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> In circles
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[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:13] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil the track seems to show a missing part of the U turn, but who knows.
[18:14] <F1VJQ> 2014-07-31 06:00:37 was the last log entry before the loop
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> The earlier hysplit - from when it left canada - showed it circling around - caught in a gyre of some sort
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Or at least what I remember - the ones consistent with it emerging when it did
[18:15] <F1VJQ> Then next day it was heading north. 2014-08-01 08:00:25
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[18:16] <F1VJQ> yes, I remember seeing the possibility of going into that circle
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[18:20] <SpeedEvil> I guess sometime tomorrow or the next day it'll be in range of portugal
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[18:21] <Reb-SM0ULC>
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[18:26] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil a painfully slow process watching it!
[18:27] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
[18:27] <F1VJQ> Looks as if I am the nearest to it on snus
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[18:28] <F1VJQ> and I am a long way off
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[18:28] <DL1SGP> hi all
[18:28] <F1VJQ> Just need a bit of maritime propagation on 2m!!
[18:29] <F1VJQ> Hello DL1SGP
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[18:33] <DL1SGP> Salut F1VJQ j'espere que vous avez passé une bonne journée :)
[18:34] <F1VJQ> DL1SGP Yes thanks... been watching HABs off and on... and doing garden work
[18:34] <DL1SGP> pleasures of summer :D
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[18:38] <F1VJQ> DL1SGP have we worked on 2m?
[18:39] <F1VJQ> I left my current log book in UK :-(
[18:39] <F1VJQ> lucky I have a spare (new) one
[18:39] <DL1SGP> No we have not worked on 2m
[18:39] <F1VJQ> mainly MS here and EME when preamp is fixed
[18:40] <F1VJQ> DL1SGP probably too far for tropo...
[18:41] <DL1SGP> Tu es ou en France F1VJQ ?
[18:41] <F1VJQ> IN95ol
[18:42] <F1VJQ> near the coast on Gironde estuary
[18:42] <F1VJQ> You can see my "mast" on Spacenear map
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[18:44] <aadamson> Hmm... I wonder if there is anyway to integrate something *none-plane* into this app... http://planefinder3d.com/
[18:44] <aadamson> you could point your phone and know were b-66 is for example :)
[18:44] <DL1SGP> that would indeed be a bit far F1VJQ
[18:44] <F1VJQ> aadamson Oi pilots... mind that balloon
[18:45] <F1VJQ> DL1SGP easy on MS!!
[18:46] <F1VJQ> can do that distance on meteor scatter with WSJT FSK441
[18:47] <F1VJQ> 1126km
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[18:49] <F1VJQ> time to eat now though.... back later.
[18:49] <SA6BSS> satellite
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[19:05] Nick change: jaymzx_away -> jaymzx
[19:07] Nick change: jaymzx -> jaymzx_away
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[19:25] <javier___> High
[19:25] <javier___> hi to all
[19:25] <DL7AD> evening
[19:26] <javier___> news about B-63?
[19:26] <DL7AD> thats my current prediction: http://www.dl7ad.de/europe.html
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[19:29] <javier___> If the prediction is good, we can hear it from Spain and Portugal
[19:30] <DL7AD> yep
[19:31] <javier___> the frequency is confirmed 434.500 Mhz
[19:32] <javier___> the frequency is confirmed 434.500 Mhz of the B-63??
[19:32] <DL7AD> yep.
[19:33] <javier___> ok
[19:33] <DL7AD> on night about 2...3khz lower than usual
[19:34] <javier___> Do you have a predicted time to have contact?
[19:34] <javier___> from Madrid?
[19:39] <DL1SGP> Guten abend Sven
[19:39] <Ian_> ping upu
[19:39] <DL7AD> Hi Felix
[19:40] <DL7AD> ein glück highlighted mir Quassel auch meinen namen. ansonsten verpenn ich immer solche messages. @DL1SGP
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[19:45] <arjun_12> Hi
[19:47] <DL1SGP> och ich hätte dich auch schon noch mit rufzeichen angebrüllt DL7AD :)
[19:48] <DL7AD> :D
[19:48] <DL7AD> hi arjun_12
[19:48] <DL1SGP> hi arjun_12
[19:48] <Ian_> hi arjun_12
[19:48] <Dark-Fx> hi arjun_12
[19:52] <myier> hi arjun_12
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[19:54] <DL7AD> doh.... -.-
[19:54] <myier> haha
[20:03] <qyx__> myier: have you finished your antenna?
[20:03] <myier> hehe qyx__ let me get the pictures
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:04] <myier> I have not bent the ground wires yet
[20:04] <myier> (the scary part)
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[20:06] <harvy> Hi guys, can anyone help with a power issue.
[20:06] <harvy> ?
[20:06] <DL7AD> hi harvy
[20:06] <DL7AD> shoot
[20:06] <harvy> Well I am powering a ntx2 with an arduino
[20:07] <harvy> but if I use an external power supply then it goes all haywire.
[20:07] <harvy> I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similiar issue with chinese power supplies?
[20:07] <harvy> by chinese I mean maplin.
[20:07] <DL7AD> so its working fine connect to the arduino?
[20:08] <harvy> Yep.
[20:08] <DL7AD> did you connect the earth connection from your arduino to the power supply?
[20:09] <harvy> The arduino is connected by usb to my pc
[20:09] <DL7AD> (acutally -)
[20:09] <harvy> for debug.
[20:09] <harvy> I am just powering the radio externally.
[20:09] <Upu> hi Ian_
[20:09] <DL7AD> okay
[20:10] <DL7AD> harvy: so how did you connect then the ntx2 to your arduino?
[20:10] <DL7AD> do they have a - conenction betwenn?
[20:10] <harvy> Yep just the tx.
[20:10] <jededu> upu did you get a chance to take a look
[20:11] <DL7AD> harvy: yeah but i mean between radio and arduino
[20:11] <Upu> yup very odd
[20:11] <Upu> looks like one of the battery connectors hasn't flowed correctly
[20:11] <Upu> it worked initially
[20:11] <Upu> but then started doing odd stuff
[20:11] <Upu> I'll reflow it tommorrow
[20:12] <jededu> ok no rush
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[20:12] <harvy> DL7AD: I just used a wire
[20:12] <mfa298> harvy: there should be at least two connections between the ntx2 and arduino. The TXD pin and the GND/0V pin. (and then VCC if they were connected to the same power supply)
[20:13] <DL7AD> agree with mfa298
[20:14] <mfa298> You need the GND/0V wire so the TXD has a reference to work to. Otherwise it could be at any point. 0V on one side only matches 0V on the other if they're connected together.
[20:16] <qyx__> myier: okay
[20:16] <harvy> Ok so just wire the 0V back to the arduino and I can use Vcc from external?
[20:16] <mfa298> that should fix it
[20:16] <DL7AD> that should work
[20:17] <mfa298> are you using PWM (like the current ntx2 arduino guide on the wiki) or the resistor divider (like the old article)
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[20:17] <harvy> Using PWM.
[20:20] <mfa298> This was a sketch I did last year for the same sort of thing but using a Pi and resistor divider. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14636926/2013-06-13%2021.58.42.jpg
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[20:20] <myier> qyx__: http://theta.vinvin.tf/index.php/Ground_Plane_Antenna
[20:21] <mfa298> If you ignore the resistors and substitute the Arduino for the Pi it might help explain things.
[20:22] <harvy> Ahh ok I am powering the arduino from my PC, so I don't need the bridge, right?
[20:25] <harvy> Ok cool it's working now.
[20:25] <qyx__> myier: nice, are they 2mm rods?
[20:25] <myier> 2mm tubes
[20:25] <myier> the centre of the coax fits inside the centre tube
[20:26] <myier> I'm not sure the tin will hold very strongly, I'll put a collar around it if it survives the bend
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[20:46] <amell> who the heck uses GWBASIC?
[20:47] <jededu> Me
[20:48] <amell> any good? its years since i used that. are we talking about the same thing?
[20:48] <jededu> It works very well amell
[20:48] <craag_philcrump> so does javascript :)
[20:48] <jededu> Yes the same
[20:49] <amell> seriously? the GWBASCI
[20:49] <jededu> Just wanted to see if i could do it
[20:49] <mattbrejza> amell: what language is your tracker written in?
[20:49] <arko> RIP Microsoft Q Basic
[20:49] <amell> GWBASIC that ran on Z80 processors? back in the 80s?
[20:49] <arko> never forget
[20:49] <jededu> Yep
[20:49] <amell> I thought it was a joke.
[20:50] <jededu> Its been transmitting for 2 hours without any problems :)
[20:50] <amell> amazed that people still use that. Is it in a PIC ide or sthing?
[20:50] <jededu> Yes PIC
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[20:51] <jededu> You saw the pic the other day
[20:51] <amell> yes, I thought these used some other dialect of basic.
[20:52] <amell> I recall that GWBASIC came with compaq machines in the mid 80s
[20:53] <jededu> its gw-basic with some additional commands but i dont use them its all written using standard gw-basic
[20:54] <amell> whats the name of the IDE that has this?
[20:54] <qyx_> lets make a competition - write a tracker in some weird language
[20:55] <amell> wasnt someone asking how to write a tracker in ML on here the other week
[20:56] <jededu> ML ?
[20:56] <amell> more modern than gwbasic!
[20:57] <jededu> Anyway it flies tomorrow
[20:57] <amell> im a bit puzzled - the gwbasic you talk about, is this the Microsoft exe?
[20:57] <mfa298> Crikey, I'd forgotten all about gwbasic. Not used such things in a long long time.
[20:57] <amell> or a clone of the language written for some other target?
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[20:58] <amell> http://www.gw-basic.com/downloads.html
[20:58] <amell> having trouble understanding how you can write a tracker in gwbasic.
[20:59] <qyx_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
[20:59] <qyx_> ou
[21:00] <jededu> http://mmbasic.com/overview.html
[21:00] <amell> Ah. is that what you used?
[21:00] <amell> this computes.
[21:01] <jededu> with the gw basic manual
[21:01] <mfa298> qyx_: I hope you program it using this method http://vimeo.com/7133810
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[21:02] <amell> ^^lol
[21:02] <jededu> funny
[21:03] <amell> yeah. lights out time
[21:03] <qyx_> mfa298: of course
[21:04] <amell> i shall substitute the glow of imac screen for a candle
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[21:08] <cipherzero> finally got my first balloons shipped, but cusroms has opened them :/
[21:08] <amell> who from? steve?
[21:08] <cipherzero> anh chance they are damaged orwill get damaged laying like that?
[21:08] <amell> customs probably thought they were rubbers for very well endowed men.
[21:09] <jededu> lol
[21:09] <cipherzero> yes Steve
[21:09] <amell> have they actually unrolled the latex?
[21:09] <cipherzero> not sure, what if they have?
[21:10] <amell> if they have got the latex dirty, it will not go so high.
[21:10] <amell> oils from fingers etc.
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[21:10] <amell> if you ordered a few, hopefully they only opened one to try it on for size.
[21:10] <cipherzero> any way to clean them?
[21:10] <amell> dont think so. they are covered in talc.
[21:11] <cipherzero> oh
[21:11] <mattbrejza> if they removed it from the bag you should be able to tell, they wont get it back in neatly
[21:11] <amell> what did you order?
[21:11] <cipherzero> dunno, the foil bag was opened very carelessly
[21:12] <cipherzero> pavan 600g
[21:12] <amell> is the balloon neatly folded?
[21:13] <cipherzero> I dont know because this is my first weather balloon, I think so
[21:13] <amell> can you paste a pic of it?
[21:13] <cipherzero> but then again they probably poked it a bit
[21:13] <amell> we can tell if its as shipped or not.
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> photo -> upload at http://justpaste.it/
[21:14] <Ian_> Back from sked
[21:14] <Ian_> ping upu
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[21:14] <cipherzero> at my friends house right now, and its 1 am, cant post a pic, sorry
[21:14] <amell> ok, well just post when you can. laterz
[21:15] <cipherzero> is it easy to damage it by poking it and trying to see whats between the folds?
[21:16] <cipherzero> im guessing thats what they did
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[21:19] <amell> hopefully they had clean hands, wearing new latex or nitrile gloves.
[21:19] <amell> and they did not leave deposits
[21:19] <cipherzero> ok
[21:19] <cipherzero> so youre not worried about physical damage?
[21:20] <F1VJQ> amell being white powder they probably sniffed it!
[21:20] <amell> not unless they cut the bag open with a craft knife...
[21:20] <amell> which would be a BAD thing.
[21:20] <arko> the only thing that powder will help get high is the balloon itself
[21:21] <cipherzero> which brings me to second question, can i inflate it once with air to see if there is no physical damage before filling it with helium?
[21:21] <amell> Hmm, will a pawan neck fit over my head? got an idea for my next party trick.
[21:22] <amell> i dont know about that one cipher.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> cipherzero: in principle, yes.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> cipherzero: in practice, deflating it again and storing without damage will be 'fun'
[21:22] <amell> once it has had moisture of any kind in it, it will rot.
[21:22] <amell> so youd want to send it off pretty much straight away
[21:23] <cipherzero> ok. I mean right before launching it, not storing for later
[21:24] <amell> wouldnt have thought that would be an issue.
[21:24] <amell> but i could be wrong
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[21:25] <cipherzero> hm okay, thanks. also,
[21:25] <amell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx95JDvkFWg - is this a 2000g?
[21:26] <cipherzero> I have a guy who works with party balloons, will he know how to properly iflate it, or are there secific techniques?
[21:27] <cipherzero> I actually have no idea how to tie the rope to the balloon properly.
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[21:27] <cipherzero> have everything else set up
[21:28] <amell> fill tube?
[21:29] <cipherzero> what?
[21:29] <amell> this is how you inflate it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fja3qfm7rwU
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[21:29] <LazyLeopard> ..and http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:fill_tube and http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon will be worth a read.
[21:30] <amell> has anyone ever tried to get the neck tube over their head? wanting to know if its possible.
[21:31] <amell> i suspect the latex is too thick there.
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[21:33] <SpeedEvil> amell: If you try, get someone else to watch you - just in case - with the darwin awards website submission form preloaded
[21:33] <cipherzero> thanks. i have a hard time finding what i need in the wiki for some reason
[21:33] <amell> Speedevil: well, it was for a party trick. alien theme.
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> If filled with a lot of air - there should be little risk. Remove when it feels very stuffy.
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Or add a hose out along your neck
[21:34] <amell> i dont mean over my face!
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Oh.
[21:34] <amell> i mean just over forehead.
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:34] <qyx_> :D
[21:34] <amell> strange things discussed on highaltitude...
[21:34] <mfa298> amell: also have them run a camcorder - could be worth £250 on YBF
[21:35] <amell> well yes, i have no issue making a fool of myself to generate income.
[21:35] <cipherzero> the wiki page is a little confusing, might be my english...
[21:36] <cipherzero> so in the end a cable tie is all thats holding it?
[21:36] <amell> and tape
[21:36] <cipherzero> you deattach the filler tube and tighten it up? did i get it?
[21:38] <cipherzero> ok, and tape is over the cable tie? or below/above it?
[21:40] <cipherzero> what about the rope of the payload? :/
[21:41] <amell> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon did you read this?
[21:43] <cipherzero> how the hell did I miss that? thanks amell.
[21:44] <mfa298> on the ukhas wiki it's quite easy to miss things.
[21:44] <mfa298> you need to spend a lot of time just browsing around to find some of whats hidden on there
[21:44] <amell> who launched MONDO-10?
[21:45] <cipherzero> i hope he has a filler tube like that. Dunno if party balloons are filled the same way
[21:45] <amell> they are not.
[21:45] <amell> party balloons use a different filler valve.
[21:46] <amell> if you want to weigh your neck lift etc, you need to use filler tube or it will be pretty impossible.
[21:46] <cipherzero> weigh my neck lift?
[21:46] <mfa298> I think most of the filler tubes people use are home made, it's not a standard thing (or that's my understanding of it)
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[21:47] <amell> just noticed that there is a new world record appeared on arhab for distance flown
[21:48] <amell> and its not leo&
[21:48] <cm13g09> amell: eh!?
[21:48] <amell> check distance table at arhab.org
[21:48] <cipherzero> so he cant fill woth his party balloon filler?
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[21:49] <amell> VK3YT has submitted his records.
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[21:49] <mfa298> well Leo's record breaking balloons are still going
[21:49] <amell> When is leobodnar submitting his? Looks like he will have three circumnavigations shortly.
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> it's a fudged reckord
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> *record
[21:50] <amell> how so?
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> it has total distance travelled claimed to be great circle
[21:50] <amell> 8,777.50 miles
[21:50] <amell> i agree. makes no sense.
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PS-13.png
[21:50] <jededu> Party balloon filler sholld be ok thats what I use
[21:51] <amell> 8,777.50 miles how does that equate to 16,274km from Melbourne Australia to Brazil
[21:52] <LeoBodnar> It should be 7618 miles
[21:52] <amell> leobodnar: in theory you should be taking the top three spots on both distance and duration shortly.
[21:52] <arko> LeoBodnar: you should contact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut
[21:52] <arko> :P
[21:52] <mfa298> haha, units fail for the lightest payloads. B-11 at 0.00 libs
[21:52] <LeoBodnar> I'll make sure I submit them in the wrong table and overstate by 20-30%
[21:53] <mfa298> they might need some more decimal places
[21:53] <amell> arhab guy needs to get his stuff sorted.
[21:53] <cipherzero> id ask what a neck lift is but im afraid amell will throw a complete wiki page ar my face again :p
[21:54] <amell> basically its how much your balloon pulls upwards when inflated.
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> lowest altitude
[21:54] <Laurenceb__> lol
[21:55] <cipherzero> OK. I though of trusting the calculator for knowing how much helium i need
[21:55] <amell> do you want this to float or land in a specific area?
[21:56] <amell> if not, dont worry about it as long as it goes up.
[21:56] <mfa298> the difficulty with volume is measuring how much you've actually put in the balloon. Neck lift is *much* easier to measure
[21:57] <cipherzero> wont we know how much were putting in?
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[21:58] <mfa298> only if you've got a suitable (likely expensive) flow meter that can tell you how much gas you've put in.
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[21:58] <jededu> Just fill a bottle with water untill you get the right weight of neck lift according to the calc then fill the balloon untill it lifts the bottle allowing for the weight of the filler tube
[21:59] <cipherzero> I dont know how it is in english, but he has a meter thing attached to hia tank
[21:59] <amell> pressure gauge. this wont be accurate enough
[22:00] <cipherzero> damn
[22:02] <amell> do you care how fast it goes up?
[22:02] <mfa298> neck lift is really easy to measure. As jededu said you just need something of the right weight (as given by the calculator) and fill until the balloon can just lift that weight. Then when you attach your payload it should go up at the rate on the calc
[22:03] <amell> yes, but subtracting the fill tube weight.
[22:03] <cipherzero> well I need to know the speed to determine the landing location in the landing predictor right?
[22:04] <amell> where are you launching again?
[22:04] <cipherzero> Armenia, so if it lands 20 km farther than calculated it might land in another (hostile) country
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[22:05] <amell> you wont get it that accurate...
[22:05] <amell> certainly not on first flight.
[22:05] <cipherzero> how inaccurate?
[22:06] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[22:06] <amell> mfa298 might know
[22:06] <jededu> http://imgur.com/Le00JEx like this
[22:06] <mfa298> accuracy depends on how well you can fill the balloon and know how the parachute works
[22:06] <jededu> cipherzero>
[22:06] <lz1dev> fq/ 4
[22:06] <mfa298> and how good the wind data is for the predictor
[22:07] <mfa298> pong cm13g09
[22:07] <amell> jededu: a masterpiece of a launch site.
[22:07] <jededu> lol
[22:07] <amell> jededu: i thought you were exclusively 100g pawans.
[22:07] <jededu> Not quite
[22:08] <mfa298> there was one flight that went much further than predicted as the wind data hadn't been updated for a while and that was an expensive, high profile flight. Was supposed to land well in land, ended up in the water
[22:08] <jededu> Oh lipo fell off a cliff need to rescue it
[22:08] Action: mfa298 raises a glass in memory of the playmonaut
[22:08] <amell> i see you have a reservoir at the top of your balloon
[22:12] <jededu> Because it hasnt stretched
[22:12] <amell> ok. i thought armenian customs might have had a go at it.
[22:12] <cipherzero> so what should i do now?
[22:12] <jededu> lol
[22:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> For for first launch choose a day with VERY light winds!
[22:14] <mfa298> knowing where the balloon is going to land is also easier with a radio tracker as you can get a live prediction from spacenear.us
[22:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Where roughly in Armenia woulkd you be launching from ?
[22:14] <cipherzero> yeah
[22:14] <cipherzero> I thought the landing predictor was pretty accurate
[22:15] <cipherzero> unless Ive asked that somewhere else instead
[22:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> It can be IF you can accrately fill and predict the balloon parameters
[22:15] <cipherzero> OK, cool
[22:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Its like many things the first time everything goes wrong!
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE_> How close to the Eastern border will you be launching from ?
[22:17] <cipherzero> sure, but I want to be optimistic, since Ive spend a lot of time setting up everything else and thinking about it
[22:17] <mfa298> As I said before, the predictor is as good as the values you put into it (ascent rate, descent rate, burst altitude), the quality of the balloon (they don't always burst at the altitude the calc says) and the wind data.
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[22:19] <cipherzero> Im reading and typing on a windows phone, kinda hard
[22:19] <cipherzero> Geoff, not close
[22:19] <jededu> My first one went wrong predictor said 40 miles I ended up chasing it 120 miles not enough gas :/
[22:19] <cipherzero> dont want to be close there
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[22:21] <cipherzero> what had you neasured wrong, jededu?
[22:21] <myier> dl-fldigi has been confirmed running on mac os x?
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[22:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Why not get an Hourly predictor running for your launch location and just watch what happens for a few weeks to get a feel of the landing areas
[22:22] <myier> and windows 8?
[22:22] <myier> do you know if the funcube dongle pro+ works with all OSes too (= IQ to sound software)?
[22:22] <jededu> Just under filled it slightly and low cloud kept it wet
[22:23] <jededu> so it climbed more slowly
[22:23] <cipherzero> I have no idea, I got this as a gift and its pretty damn annoying. And Im cool with Linuxes
[22:23] <mfa298> myier: I've used the FCD Pro+ and dl-fldigi on windows 7 and windows 8 with no issues
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[22:23] <myier> mfa298: thanks, which software do you use for IQ decoding?
[22:24] <mfa298> usually sdr-radio v2
[22:24] <mfa298> although I've also used sdr#
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[22:24] <cipherzero> theres like 12 bugs i noticed the first week
[22:24] <myier> and do you use a jack to pass the signal from one to the other or a software to do that?
[22:25] <mfa298> I use virtual audio cable, there's also vbplug
[22:25] <myier> ok, thanks a lot
[22:26] <amell> myier: yesit works on OSX
[22:26] <cipherzero> Geoff, for two weeks the landing location hasnt changed much
[22:26] <amell> myier: gqrx and soundflower too makes a great hab tracking station
[22:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> OK so you know about the Hourly predictor for a luanch site then
[22:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> *launch
[22:27] <cipherzero> No ive just ran the landing predictor several times during this time
[22:27] <myier> I use gqrx too, but with Linux-based systems, I just find it not configurable enough or too much CPU hungry, otherwise it's good yes
[22:28] <myier> but for the launch I'll have a windows or mac PC, that's why I'm asking
[22:28] <amell> OSX is fine.
[22:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Ask on #HABHUB then it might assist you, it shows landing spots for every hour for a given set of paramaters you set
[22:29] <cipherzero> its running on a webpage like the landing predictor?
[22:29] <Geoff-G8DHE_> This is a typical output, you have your own control page http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/oldgore/
[22:30] <F1VJQ> Looks like B-63 ran out of APRS coverage from Funchal....last fix @ 23:56:03
[22:30] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Details on the Wiki, you used to run the software yourself, now the habhub servers will do it for you.
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[22:30] <SpeedEvil> F1VJQ: with luck tomorrow - Portugal
[22:31] <cipherzero> i wish i was using a PC right now
[22:31] <DL7AD> F1VJQ: which timezone?
[22:31] <F1VJQ> SpeedEvil yes hopefully....I will leave my igate running overnight in case it appears in Biscay
[22:32] <F1VJQ> DL7AD good question!! It's the time shown on APRS.FI
[22:32] <cipherzero> so sorry for this question, i need to ask on that irc channel for someone to run the predictor for me?
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> cipherzero: you can do it yourself
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/
[22:33] <F1VJQ> DL7AD probably UTC +2
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Scroll the map to where you are. Select 'set with map' - and fill inthe rest
[22:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> They will set it up for you, the #habhib channel is associated with this one, all the server work/request /software etc are handled in there vy the sysadmin's
[22:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Speedevil, I'm suggesting the hourly predictor not the mainpredictor
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[22:34] <mfa298> cipherzero: if you want an hourly setup you need to ask on #habhub with the lat/long/altitude and a name for it of the launch site and someone should set it up
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> oh
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> sorry
[22:34] <cipherzero> i really need to find a PC right now
[22:35] <cipherzero> thanks
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[22:36] <cipherzero> though im not sure what to use to measure how much helium was filled, if the pressure meter is inaccurate
[22:37] <amell> you do it by measuring neck lift
[22:39] <cipherzero> for what I need a custom filler?
[22:39] <F1VJQ> goodnight all....73
[22:39] <amell> no. just a piece of pipe
[22:39] <amell> i used a small piece of plumbing pipe
[22:40] <amell> the pipe used for sink waste.
[22:40] <myier> good night F1VJQ
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[22:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> See here http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:balloon_filler
[22:40] <amell> glue it on the end.
[22:41] <amell> yeah that looks sort of ok...
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[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> There is a link at the top to an improved one
[22:42] <cipherzero> hm
[22:42] <amell> yeah the first one does the job. but i think it will leak helium with the joint. I would do the same, but not have the right angle
[22:43] <cipherzero> im not sure how a piece of pipe will tell me how much helium Ive filled.Its 2:40am here, maybe thats why
[22:44] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The pipe doesn't! Its the filler only, you then add weights to the pipe to set the Lift Kneck Lift required
[22:45] <amell> ive not been able to find a page explaining how to measure neck lift. surprisingly.
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> That picture earlier is pretty self explantory http://imgur.com/Le00JEx Zoom in to the lower sections
[22:46] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Calculate neck lift required, add the weight of the filler tube to the weight of the bottle of water and you have the setup
[22:49] <myier> that's a funny software sdr console v2 (known as sdr radio I think)
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[22:49] <cipherzero> I guess that will work
[22:50] <myier> it decodes the RTTY from my payload very easily with no error, using only 25% CPU, with a slightly misconfigured shift, while on Linux with gqrx and dl-fldigi I need 90% and it fails because there's not enough CPU
[22:50] <cipherzero> Ill try to digest all this info
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE_> No problem, it takes a while for all the areas og knowledge to come together!
[22:51] <cipherzero> ok, bye
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Night I'm off asw ell!
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[22:53] <mfa298> sdr# is possibly the easier program to use. sdr-radio (sdr-console) has a lot more useful features (such as the multiple vfos)
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[22:56] <myier> if we get RTTY data in a text form, is it possible to upload it to habitat later to fill the gaps in the telemetry?
[22:57] <myier> or if a offline listener has packets, can he upload them when he has an internet access?
[22:58] <Geoff-G8DHE_> feed sdr-radio audio output to dl-fldigi, thats the normal way
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[23:02] <myier> yes Geoff-G8DHE_, but what if a listener cannot upload data to habitat when he receives the RTTY lines, are they lost?
[23:02] <myier> like in chase vehicles
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> I believe there are ways of uploading yes you need to speak to Upu and the like for that
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[23:03] <myier> ok
[23:03] <myier> thank
[23:03] <myier> s
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE_> me gone
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[23:07] <myier> me too
[23:15] <myier> I had to come back: virtual audio cable, seriously what's that, it's not even fre
[23:15] <myier> e
[23:17] <amell> soundflower is free
[23:17] <amell> for the mac
[23:17] <myier> of course it is!
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[23:19] <myier> I think the choice is easy between windows and mac then, good night!
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 5 2014