highaltitude.log.20140803

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[01:06] <Flerb> So I think I'll get my boards done when I come back. The soldering was really really difficult thougj
[01:06] <Flerb> Not sure if my tip is too big or if its just me being no good
[01:06] Nick change: gus2u -> kd0tmb
[01:09] <N2NXZ> SO did the ground stations quit on 63?
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[01:14] <vcazan> hello, I am just setting up my pi in the sky board and I have everything set up almost perfectly
[01:14] <vcazan> The only thing I cant figure out is why my messages get decoded like this:
[01:14] <vcazan> $$TEST01 ,206,00:00:00,0.00000,0.00000,00000,0,0,0,30.7,2.8*297B
[01:15] <vcazan> there is a space/new line after my callsign and the checksum does not pass
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[01:49] <KT5TK> vcazan: Could this be a null terminated string? Note that the first character in a string has the position 0 (not 1)
[01:50] <N2NXZ> Major breakthrough...replacement for the Hwoyee !! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXOj3hDLgoc
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[01:58] <KT5TK> Fill it with hydrogen and it'll fly...
[01:58] <KT5TK> Has anybody here some experience withCMOS camera modules like this one?
[01:58] <KT5TK> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-2-mega-pixels-camera-module-SOC2020-MT9D112-digital-Micron-CMOS-sensor-UXGA/873285159.html
[01:59] <N2NXZ> No,but looks cool
[02:00] <KT5TK> It's supported by Arducam, so my plan was to try to design a ssdv tracker for a pico
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[02:01] <KT5TK> Just not sure if Arducam is actually open hardware
[02:02] <N2NXZ> Over my head,but sounds like a cool idea.I have hard enough time figuring out battery power ...ha ha .
[02:03] <N2NXZ> All this stuff is new to me,but lots of fun.
[02:03] <KT5TK> Yes, power & weight will be the biggest challenge for a cam tracker too
[02:03] <KT5TK> But this model draws ~250 mA
[02:04] <KT5TK> For a short time this may be acceptable if you have enough solar power
[02:04] <N2NXZ> How long are you looking to operate ?
[02:04] <KT5TK> ideally permanent (on let's say a picture per hour
[02:04] <KT5TK> )
[02:05] <KT5TK> The camera will be on for just a few seconds per cycle
[02:05] <N2NXZ> Sounds familiar,looking to send data once per hour to save power
[02:06] <N2NXZ> Thinking of a small timer myself.OFF/ON power thing
[02:06] <KT5TK> Are you using APRS or something else?
[02:06] <N2NXZ> Maybe yours same concept
[02:06] <N2NXZ> 70cm and 30m rtty
[02:07] <N2NXZ> 30m once every hour for 15 min
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[02:07] <N2NXZ> Gave up on solar
[02:08] <KT5TK> 15 min is pretty long. Chances that a transmission is interrupted are quite high. At what baud rate?
[02:08] <N2NXZ> 45
[02:08] <KT5TK> No reason to give up on solar. Why?
[02:08] <N2NXZ> My battery will do 20hrs constant,need to get at least 72 hours
[02:09] <N2NXZ> Seems solar will be too heavy considering what it will need.Unless I have only for backup during sunlight
[02:10] <N2NXZ> Still thinking on it...and searching for good cells
[02:10] <KT5TK> Yep, Optimize power consumption. Reduce tx string length
[02:10] <N2NXZ> yes
[02:10] <N2NXZ> when the nano is turned off,it will restart from OFF no problem each time
[02:11] <N2NXZ> I though 15 min on the hour so it can be detected
[02:11] <N2NXZ> 30m can be weird
[02:11] <KT5TK> The micro-controller is usually not the problem. The GPS draws the most current
[02:12] <N2NXZ> Sorry,this is only an RTTY beacon with nano/9850
[02:13] <KT5TK> 9850 also draws plenty of power.
[02:13] <N2NXZ> The Arduino UNO will shut down after 6 hours,then return ON when I can do an ETA guess
[02:14] <N2NXZ> Yup,it sure does.I got it to run on battery for close to 20hrs straight.
[02:14] <N2NXZ> Going to wing it
[02:15] <N2NXZ> Be lucky if it makes it out of my state...but gonna try like hell
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[02:16] <KT5TK> I've used a AD9835 for PSK on 40m and 30m in the past. That is not sooo power hungry
[02:16] <KT5TK> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/9169
[02:17] <KT5TK> https://github.com/tkrahn/AD9835_PSK31
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[02:20] <N2NXZ> That looks interesting
[02:21] <N2NXZ> Wish I knew of its existence sooner'
[02:22] <N2NXZ> 9850 can not work the same way?Seems the voltage requirements are the same
[02:22] <KT5TK> It draws more current
[02:23] <KT5TK> Simply because it internally runs on a much higher frequency
[02:23] <KT5TK> But it may be still usable
[02:23] <N2NXZ> Going to keep that link around :)
[02:23] <KT5TK> Depends on the balloon you hang it below
[02:23] <N2NXZ> 1600
[02:24] <KT5TK> That should be sufficient
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[02:25] <KT5TK> The AD9835 was powered with solar only (no battery buffer at all)
[02:25] <N2NXZ> Suggestions on last years was a vent tube,used it and seemed to work good,but hate losing the helium like that.Not good for the following days
[02:25] <N2NXZ> How will it run at night?
[02:25] <KT5TK> It was on a up/down launch
[02:25] <N2NXZ> o
[02:26] <N2NXZ> Hoping to achieve same as the last,but making sure it survives this time
[02:26] <KT5TK> I also operated it on a latex floater, but only with batteries there.
[02:26] <N2NXZ> what balloon?
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[02:26] <KT5TK> Hwoyee 1600
[02:27] <N2NXZ> how far was it tracked?
[02:27] <KT5TK> It was flying from Texas to Alabama, but it burst in the morning
[02:27] <N2NXZ> same issue I have had,but the vent tube works good in my opinion
[02:28] <N2NXZ> This time a new idea in my head
[02:28] <KT5TK> How do you build it and how much does it weight?
[02:29] <N2NXZ> the payload?
[02:29] <KT5TK> The vent
[02:29] <N2NXZ> just a plastic tube at the nozzle
[02:29] <N2NXZ> you used 1600,once gas is in,only way out is expansion
[02:30] <KT5TK> Do you have any pictures?
[02:30] <N2NXZ> I think there are zero pressure balloons
[02:30] <N2NXZ> No,long story on that launch...everything was planned on short notice
[02:31] <N2NXZ> grey hair from that one :)
[02:31] <KT5TK> Yes, but zero pressure balloons must be very big so that they don't loose to much lift gas
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[02:32] <N2NXZ> Lost too many 1600`s,the vent was a last moment idea from some in this group.We went with it.Seemed to work great,altitudes were nice until leaving the USA
[02:33] <N2NXZ> Still have data,it was looking really good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXOj3hDLgoc
[02:33] <N2NXZ> wrong link...sorry
[02:33] <N2NXZ> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FHB-N2NXZ1&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[02:33] <N2NXZ> I liked the venting idea a lot.
[02:34] <N2NXZ> We feel it lost too much helium and went down the following eve
[02:35] <N2NXZ> So this time,going to paln on capturing the gas
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[02:37] <KT5TK> capture? Do you want to compress it?
[02:38] <N2NXZ> Maybe a bad plan,but to me it sounds reasonable and simple.Vent the main balloon(1600) to avoid burst by having another smaller balloon upside down(empty).As long as neck lift is accurate,should be a good test.
[02:39] <N2NXZ> Like having an extra 300g when needed
[02:39] <N2NXZ> If is the term...
[02:40] <N2NXZ> waste of balloon...but going for it
[02:42] <N2NXZ> From what I have read,if you fill a 1600 properly (neck lift) for a floater,it should never burst.But that never seems to be the case for me.
[02:42] <KT5TK> Hmm, isn't that effectively just the same as a bigger balloon? If the balloons are not connected, likely the smaller balloon will burst before you reach float altitude.
[02:43] <KT5TK> That was the case with the Hwoyees in 2011/12
[02:43] <KT5TK> But recently all of them burst in the morning
[02:43] <N2NXZ> but the smaller should never need it in reality if the neck lift was correct.The empty one will never need anything pushed into it,but a bigger balloon makes for still one to depend on.
[02:43] <N2NXZ> yes
[02:44] <N2NXZ> I think the one vented went down rather than burst,the neck was unsealed
[02:45] <N2NXZ> Not sure if it has been tried,so looks like i am it...ha ha
[02:45] <N2NXZ> At least we will know how that will go
[02:46] <N2NXZ> Have you used the burst calculator?
[02:46] <KT5TK> Not for the floaters
[02:47] <N2NXZ> From what it shows,1/ms is pretty good.
[02:47] <KT5TK> We just trimmed them to the least possible lift for a realistic launch
[02:47] <KT5TK> So that they don't end up in the trees
[02:48] <N2NXZ> i know,i may launch near the lakeshore this time,i want s-l-o-w- /ms
[02:49] <N2NXZ> I always overfill ,impossible to get helium out of those
[02:49] <N2NXZ> unless you have a ladder on hand
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[02:54] <N2NXZ> Here is my first launch of 40m beacon,we used condoms :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M86ZfTUNBxc
[02:56] <KT5TK> Reminds me on this: http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/launching-trash-bags-at-late-night/
[02:57] <arko> haha
[02:57] <arko> how did that work?
[02:58] <KT5TK> It did work. It landed close to the IAH airport
[02:58] <KT5TK> Just like 30 miles from where we launched
[02:58] <arko> nice!
[02:58] <arko> did it float?
[02:59] <KT5TK> No, at ~20kft it lost too much helium and came slowly down
[02:59] <arko> aaww
[02:59] <arko> thats still cool
[02:59] <N2NXZ> ha ha ah ...guess i am not the only one to try plastic bags
[03:01] <arko> finished assembling my latest hab last night http://imgur.com/a/BRhLs
[03:01] <arko> cant wait to try it out
[03:03] <N2NXZ> Here is one using ordinary latex party balloons,it had some condoms too,but they were so slippery,only one survived. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZtr2JJZpRI
[03:03] <N2NXZ> Arko,that looked like lots of work
[03:03] <KT5TK> We also had a larger stronger trash bag, but we didn't have enough helium to let it lift off.
[03:03] <N2NXZ> looks great
[03:03] <arko> its really ise tbh, i wish it was much simplier
[03:04] <arko> i wanted to try these high efficieny solar cells
[03:04] <arko> and something super surdy
[03:04] <arko> i kept snapping those ebay ones
[03:04] <N2NXZ> never seen soalr like that
[03:04] <N2NXZ> soalr
[03:04] <arko> i sneeze, they shatter, i look at them wrong, they shatter
[03:04] <N2NXZ> terrible typing'
[03:04] <arko> me too :P
[03:04] <KT5TK> Arko: Nice work! how much does the solar assembly weight?
[03:05] <arko> N2NXZ: hahaha launching a condom
[03:05] <arko> KT5TK: not sure yet
[03:05] <arko> my scale is at my hackerspace, and none of my neighbors sell drugs :/
[03:05] <arko> so i wont know until tuesday
[03:06] <KT5TK> 12-09-2013 Humorous balloon launch of N2NXZ/BLN/5 re-used -> What exactly was re-used? The condom?
[03:07] <N2NXZ> LOL!!!
[03:07] <arko> oh god
[03:07] <N2NXZ> No,the 10m beacon which was recovered days earlier from New Hamphire...even used the same lithium 9v
[03:07] <arko> >_<
[03:08] <N2NXZ> I heard that beacon for hours
[03:08] <arko> nice
[03:09] <N2NXZ> I had to use the helium,had 100cu ft after the trans atlantic attempt
[03:10] <N2NXZ> I am terrible at balloon launches,but the last was tried with special care as will this next
[03:10] <N2NXZ> Hope to hear your new one here Arko
[03:11] <arko> :) thats the plan man!
[03:11] <arko> LA->NY->UK
[03:11] <arko> :D
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[03:13] <N2NXZ> balloon used?
[03:15] <KT5TK> Arco, do you have some experience with CMOS camera modules like this one?
[03:15] <KT5TK> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-2-mega-pixels-camera-module-SOC2020-MT9D112-digital-Micron-CMOS-sensor-UXGA/873285159.html
[03:15] <arko> sadly not
[03:15] <arko> i really want to get a nice mcu and tackle interfacing to cmos cameras
[03:16] <arko> rather than these cruddy adafruit jpeg cameras
[03:16] <KT5TK> That would be cool to have them on a pico for ssdv
[03:16] <arko> :)
[03:16] <arko> totally do able
[03:16] <arko> cubex was already there, just made fat on purpose
[03:17] <arko> fsphil did a great job with fitting the ssdv on the 328
[03:19] <KT5TK> Looks nice, just way too much PCB material ;)
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[03:26] <N2NXZ> Those are interesting solar cells.Where they costly?
[03:26] <N2NXZ> were
[03:27] <arko> not really
[03:27] <arko> obsolete now too :/
[03:28] <arko> switching to the replacement
[03:29] <N2NXZ> pretty unique
[03:33] <N2NXZ> Off to bed,gotta help my son finish his high power rocket idea tomorrow.You guys have a good night.
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[03:41] <KT5TK> While looking at your adafruit serial cam I came across this: http://www.adafruit.com/products/1722
[03:42] <KT5TK> Should be nice to get false color near infrared images from a balloon
[03:48] <KF7FER2> interesting way to mount the camera module... looks like epoxy or something
[03:48] Nick change: KF7FER2 -> kf7fer
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[03:49] <molo> glad to see M0XER-3 popped up again
[03:50] <molo> anyone run predictions for its path?
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[03:59] <KT5TK> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=092c0bf338e85d29aab39c15f30453135860f915
[03:59] <KT5TK> Probably not very accurate because slow moving.
[04:01] <KT5TK> I hope that someone on the Canary Islands will listen to it.
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[04:02] <molo> KT5TK: I scrolled back and found this: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/120189_trj001.gif
[04:02] <molo> looks pretty similar
[04:03] <KT5TK> Yes, in deed
[04:06] <molo> if not the Canaries, maybe Madeira
[04:06] <KT5TK> Not a prediction, but shows the complicated air flow in that region: http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-8.83,29.04,364
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[04:07] <molo> KT5TK: interesting. this is recorded data?
[04:07] <molo> or a model?
[04:08] <KT5TK> real time model, NOAA I believe
[04:08] <molo> impressive dataset
[04:08] <molo> and visualization
[04:11] <molo> okay, i'm off. good night and thanks for the info.
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[04:29] <jellyfishtree> anyone around?
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[04:30] <KT5TK> yes
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[04:34] <jellyfishtree> Looking to get Doc ID: 5f676d5c60a23d52c849cb31d0b025b7 approved for flight tracking
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[04:35] <KT5TK> Sorry, can't help with that. Maybe darkside is around?
[04:38] <SA6BSS> HEHE, B-66 is bac!!!
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[04:40] <SA6BSS> Ne ver thought that balloon wod show up again!!
[04:40] <KT5TK> Holy crap! 45071 ft
[04:41] <arko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFS_Alert someone should contact these guys and get them to install dl-fldigi
[04:43] <SA6BSS> LeoBodnar: B-66 is west of USA, heading for oregon :)
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[04:44] <KT5TK> Prediction for B-66
[04:44] <KT5TK> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=bf5a5fd24a90b07e3b46090d4c09267519c697a6
[04:45] <arko> WOAH!!!!
[04:45] <arko> damn it man!!
[04:45] <arko> wtf
[04:45] <arko> i was really hoping it would come to LA :(
[04:46] <arko> I'm just happy to know it's alive and well
[04:46] <KT5TK> Well, that's the Microsoft magnet
[04:47] <KT5TK> Why on earth would anyone consider using Windows? But still everybody does. So do the balloons :)
[04:47] <arko> lol
[04:47] <arko> i like windows
[04:47] <arko> haters gonna hate
[04:48] <KT5TK> I also like xwindows
[04:48] <arko> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/124309_trj001.gif
[04:48] <arko> :(
[04:49] <arko> i've had my radio kit in my car for the last 2 weeks
[04:49] <arko> ready to hear b66
[04:50] <arko> maybe i can hear it when it reaches the uk :P
[04:50] <KT5TK> By that time you could be in Seattle
[04:50] <arko> well i hope it rushes through the US
[04:50] <arko> i'm super bummed i cant hear it :/
[04:50] <arko> to finally rx a leo payload in the us
[04:51] <KT5TK> Alan may have a chance to pick him up
[04:51] <arko> CURSES!!!!!
[04:51] <arko> @#$(@(#%^*&@$@!&#)@!(
[04:52] <arko> i just wish we could know where it has been this whole time
[04:52] <KT5TK> fofl . Don't worry, they'll come back
[04:52] <arko> hahaha
[04:52] <arko> round 2
[04:52] <KT5TK> yes
[04:52] <arko> i bet it will happen while im in austria
[04:53] <arko> just to troll me
[04:53] <KT5TK> haha
[04:53] <arko> these balloons are allergic to me
[04:53] <arko> and the southern hemisphere
[04:55] <arko> look at that steady altitude!
[04:55] <arko> beautiful.. nice work LeoBodnar
[04:56] <KT5TK> It's the ideal altitude for floaters
[04:56] <arko> yep
[04:56] <arko> 12km is where clouds stop forming
[04:56] <arko> add 1000m to that
[04:56] <arko> bam
[05:00] <kf7fer> So I'm sure this is a stupid question, but in my (very) limited experience things like mylar party balloons seem to leak gas and never last more than a week. How does Leo manage to avoid this problem? Or do I just buy cheap stuff?
[05:01] <KT5TK> Most regular party balloons are bad. The best ones are Qualatex. However Leo builds his own hulls.
[05:02] <kf7fer> All I've ever seen are the stuff you get from hospitals.
[05:03] <kf7fer> so thicker mylar (or whatever)?
[05:04] <KT5TK> Yes and better seams
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[05:05] <kf7fer> Ok. It looks like http://www.qualatex.com/ isn't working for me right now (Comcast issue maybe?) so are they much better - could I expect a floater to more likely fail because of my problems rather than escaping gas?
[05:06] <KT5TK> website doesn't work for me either (also on comcast)
[05:06] <kf7fer> thanks for letting me know. Typically it's just me (no judgement on comcast service - or lack thereof)
[05:07] <kf7fer> how are the seams better btw?
[05:07] <KT5TK> Just more regular and better worked out at the corners
[05:08] <kf7fer> so you use heat to seal the.... uh... envelope(?) parts together?
[05:09] <KT5TK> I just used ready made balloons so far. But Leo uses some special iron I believe.
[05:10] <KT5TK> The key is that his hulls are larger than the biggest Qualatex foil balloons
[05:11] <KT5TK> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/B-64-envelope.jpg
[05:11] <kf7fer> doesn't look like mylar
[05:11] <kf7fer> looks like a hot air balloon
[05:12] <KT5TK> It's polyethylene, just like all other party balloons
[05:12] <kf7fer> Marge Simpson's hot air balloon
[05:12] <kf7fer> ;-)
[05:12] <KT5TK> there is just no metalization layer
[05:12] <kf7fer> just not colored... ah, ok. Makes sense then. Why would you care and it must be lighter
[05:15] <kf7fer> So a couple of weeks ago I did this test board based on one of your boards that use the SI4464. I don't suppose I could impose upon you to look at it and tell me what you think?
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[05:16] <KT5TK> Sure, I enjoy how my design spreads ;)
[05:17] <kf7fer> Cool! THanks. So here are the Eagle files... assuming they work
[05:17] <kf7fer> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8240668/nuRadio.brd
[05:17] <kf7fer> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8240668/nuRadio.sch
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[05:17] <kf7fer> I didn't know how to do the grounds so that's really what's left
[05:18] <kf7fer> just curious if I'm anywhere close to correct
[05:18] <kf7fer> I could post some images for a more casual perusal
[05:19] <KT5TK> give me a few minutes
[05:19] <kf7fer> no problem, thanks. I do appreciate it
[05:21] <KT5TK> Looks good.
[05:21] <KT5TK> You probably don't need the inductors and caps on the receive side
[05:21] <kf7fer> really? So can I use a single ground?
[05:22] <KT5TK> because receive works only at low tx power with that circuit
[05:23] <kf7fer> so this would be tx only?
[05:23] <KT5TK> You'd really need a rx/tx switch for a Si4464
[05:23] <KT5TK> I use them for TX only currently
[05:24] <KT5TK> You can just as well solder a Si4063 on the pads.
[05:24] <KT5TK> Same pinout
[05:24] <kf7fer> ok cool! Thanks!
[05:24] <kf7fer> easier/cheaper is always better
[05:26] <KT5TK> breaking out the txramp pin is probably not necessary
[05:26] <KT5TK> You won't need it and it's a hassle because of geometrical restrictions
[05:28] <KT5TK> R8 is just an alternative option and shouldn't be populated if you modulate the VCXO of course
[05:29] <kf7fer> Ok. Looks like I wasn't using txramp so I'll clean that up.
[05:30] <kf7fer> How do you modulate the VCXO?
[05:30] <kf7fer> parts selection?
[05:31] <KT5TK> VCXO = voltage controlled oscillator
[05:31] <KT5TK> I drive it with a pulse widths signal from the micro
[05:32] <kf7fer> GPIO0?
[05:32] <KT5TK> The RC filter is dimensioned so that it'll be around half of the operating voltage
[05:32] <KT5TK> Yes a GPIO from the micro
[05:33] <kf7fer> Sorry to be an idiot. I appreciate your help. I was actually hoping to "black box" a lower voltage transmitter than the HX1 I've been using
[05:34] <KT5TK> The VCXO gets modulated with FM audio, not the Si4464
[05:35] <KT5TK> You can use it similar to the HX1. You just need to program the operation frequency when you switch it on
[05:36] <kf7fer> I honestly haven't looked at the software side at all yet.
[05:37] <kf7fer> I assume I can see examples if I search the code you've posted?
[05:37] <KT5TK> I have an arduino library for it
[05:37] <kf7fer> couldn't ask for more ;-)
[05:37] <KT5TK> it's on my github
[05:38] <kf7fer> ok thanks
[05:38] <kf7fer> I'll take a look
[05:39] <KT5TK> https://github.com/tkrahn/pecanpico4/blob/master/radio_si446x.cpp https://github.com/tkrahn/pecanpico4/blob/master/radio_si446x.h
[05:40] <kf7fer> thanks
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[05:50] <jcoxon> b-66!
[05:51] <jcoxon> these balloons are so tough
[05:57] <jaymzx> That's awesome. Two balloons back on the map in one day. B66 may fly over my place, too.
[05:58] <KT5TK> James, remember you started this craziness a few years ago! By that time a flight from England to Sweden was something extraordinary.
[06:00] <KT5TK> (it actually still is)
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[06:02] <KT5TK> Still just a single data point for B-66. The battery may be frozen during the night
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[06:25] <arko> http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2cfjxv/i_accidentally_got_on_a_heathrow_express_train_so/
[06:25] <arko> lol did this by accident due to jetlag last year
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[07:17] <Reb-SM0ULC> wow, b66 going on and on. :)
[07:30] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: ping
[07:30] <DL7AD> B-66
[07:35] <DL7AD> B-66 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=125767
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[07:44] <F1VJQ> B-66 turned up off USA!!!!
[07:45] <F1VJQ> B-66 heading for landfall in Oregon
[07:47] <F1VJQ> B-66 must have taken a trip north rather than over Pacific
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[07:47] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar B-66 alert .....
[07:47] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar it's back!!!
[07:51] <F1VJQ> fsphil daveake B-66 back
[07:52] <F1VJQ> arko B-66 off Oregon
[07:56] <F1VJQ> KE6SLS received B-66 over 3 hours ago... but it should be in range of APRS stations soon...
[08:02] <F1VJQ> M0XER-6 just updated a few seconds ago. Track sort of looks as if it is heading towards Vancouver
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[08:03] <SA6BSS> and it moved :) its back again.
[08:05] <F1VJQ> SA6BSS three of them still alive in some way! B-63 turned up off Azores last night
[08:06] <F1VJQ> B-64 is somewhere in Frozen wastes of N Russia
[08:09] <F1VJQ> SA6BSS very quiet in here this morning! Are they all at church perhaps?
[08:11] <jaymzx> Hoping B66 buzzes Seattle
[08:11] <F1VJQ> It looks as if it will go close
[08:12] <F1VJQ> turned a bit so maybe will enter Canada rather than US
[08:13] <jaymzx> The hysplit looks promising
[08:14] <F1VJQ> is it late at night on west coast US at the moment?
[08:15] <mightymik> early morning ,,, 1:15 am
[08:16] <F1VJQ> updates a bit erratic... 8m since last one
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[08:20] <SA6BSS> F1VJQ: Well its sunday morning, I guess some are sleeping in.
[08:20] <SA6BSS> It will be interesing to where B63 make landfall
[08:20] <F1VJQ> SA6BSS it's a hard life!!
[08:21] <SA6BSS> inded :)
[08:21] <F1VJQ> B-63 should be in range of Canary Island APRS very soon
[08:23] <F1VJQ> now 15m since B-66 update
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[08:26] <F1VJQ> mightymik some will be disappointed not to hear.... it may have flown them by whilst they sleep!
[08:26] <SA6BSS> looking at aprs.fi it looks like b-63 made smalljump a couple of minutes ago
[08:26] <SA6BSS> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&call=a%2FM0XER-3&timerange=21600&tail=21600
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[08:33] <F1VJQ> last update 08:18 for B-63
[08:34] <F1VJQ> via CU2ARA
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[08:44] <mikestir> some people have no regard for ism band power limits... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g91xkISmp2g
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[08:52] <SA6BSS> F1VJQ: jepp, thats a 5 hour between the dots
[08:53] <F1VJQ> SA6BSS I guess APRS coverage with only 10mW is going to be difficult in remote places such as oceans
[08:53] <F1VJQ> 45 minutes now for B-66 since last update
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[08:54] <F1VJQ> 35 minutes since B-63 last update
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[08:55] <LeoBodnar> wtf B-66
[08:55] <SA6BSS> :=)
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> morning
[08:57] <F1VJQ> Good morning Leo
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[08:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Your covering the world again LeoBodnar!
[08:57] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar yes, B-66 showed up about 4 hours ago with a single fix
[08:59] <LeoBodnar> so it did not die then
[08:59] <F1VJQ> KE6SLS only received it briefly, then just over an hour ago it showed up for a while via W7GC
[08:59] <LeoBodnar> </logic>
[09:00] <jaymzx> I found B64 still in my station list from the pass on the 24th. https://imgur.com/a/xm5g7#0
[09:02] <F1VJQ> W7GC is at the limit of blue ring so may get packets again soonish
[09:03] <F1VJQ> KE6SLS was well outside the blue ring
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[09:03] <cm13g09> LEO! Will you please....
[09:03] <cm13g09> Oh....
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[09:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> GM all
[09:09] <F1VJQ> Hi
[09:16] <F1VJQ> B-66 just updated
[09:17] <F1VJQ> headed straight for Vancouver! What is it with B-63/64/66 and Vancouver?
[09:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The winds go thru Keyholes!
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> What the actual fuck.
[09:18] Action: SpeedEvil realises that LeoBodnar has discovered immortality.
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> Though only for balloons.
[09:18] <SpeedEvil> (perhaps)
[09:19] <cm13g09> hmm
[09:19] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: Leo really has excelled himself this time
[09:20] <Herman-PB0AHX> hi all is er any ballon today going up ??
[09:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Most are just floating around today
[09:20] <SpeedEvil> The trackers need refactored to cope with big data.
[09:20] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: yeah - even Phil's one is struggling!
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[09:21] <F1VJQ> B-66 is the one last seen over Mongolia on 21st July
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> yes
[09:22] <LeoBodnar> is this used to prod duplex APRS tracker for an update typically? KB9RKU-3>APWW10,TCPIP*,qAC,WE7U-F2::M0XER-3 :?APRSP
[09:22] <SpeedEvil> Is Vk3yt long-term - or was it just intended to last a day or two? (batterywise)
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[09:23] <tweetBot> @G8DHE: HAB UPDATE: B-66 has come in from the cold - heading for Vancouver http://t.co/PcZtZMPvqZ #ukhas #hamr #hab
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[09:29] <SA6BSS> SpeedEvil: looks like its just battery, no solar http://picospace.net/
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:29] <SpeedEvil> It's in an ideal latitude to perhaps catch a really fast circumnavigation.
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[09:30] <LeoBodnar> I think VK3YT is exactly the same as mine
[09:31] <LeoBodnar> LiPo and solar panels
[09:31] <LeoBodnar> http://picospace.net/wp-content/uploads/PS-7/PastedGraphic-31.png
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[09:32] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/B-64-payload.jpg
[09:32] <qyx_> lol
[09:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> He says PS-15 the current one is a last minute flight without Solar ..
[09:33] <LeoBodnar> is current PS-15?
[09:33] <LeoBodnar> there should be telemetry on it
[09:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> it is -9 which matches see the link above
[09:34] <malgar> :O LeoBodnar I have no words :O B-66!!!
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> Ah! "This is a non-solar payload, and APRS only."
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FVK3YT-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> ah yes, last battery voltage is 1.402V
[09:35] <malgar> LeoBodnar: wishlist: a permanent stratospheric balloon with ssdv
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> heh
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> 191km/h - good call!
[09:37] <LeoBodnar> Southern hemisphere got nice windspeeds now
[09:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> But no stations to report progress ..
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[09:38] <LeoBodnar> backlog use is just a question of time
[09:38] <SA6BSS> LeoBodnar: thos one going fast to :) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26543754/m0xer-4.JPG misscalculation but fun :)
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[09:39] <LeoBodnar> haha, APRS. We have seen 3000km/h speeds
[09:39] <SA6BSS> oki :)
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[09:51] <SA6BSS> b-63 new update
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[09:55] <yo9ict> it will see daylight in 3 to 3 1/2 hrs
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[10:00] <SpeedEvil> I'm confused.
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> 'Last path: M0XER-6>APRS66 via WIDE2-1,qAR,W7GC-3 '
[10:00] <SpeedEvil> Is this someone who's set their location to their home port on their boat?
[10:00] <Maxell> W7GC-3
[10:01] <Maxell> Lets see
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> Looking at arhab records
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> First place PS-13
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> with 16274 km
[10:01] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: 44°58.62' N 124°00.54' W - locator CN74XX84WL
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> Oh - doh
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> never mind
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> calculator shows only 14110km
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> since when we started filing travelled distance in great circle table?
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> I got my b's mixed up
[10:02] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: OCRG Lincoln City I-Gate (UI-View32 V2.03) :P
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> I should then file few dozens records
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[10:02] <LeoBodnar> this is not a sporting behaviour
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> Maxell: yeah - I was confused by being zoomed in too far, and though thte green circle was the horizon
[10:03] <Maxell> ah yes
[10:03] <Maxell> You expected the balloon being rx over the horizon
[10:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Great circle distance is a waste of time anyway! Once halfway round it decreases!!
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> Maxell: plus, I got confused as to which B, and the one off the azores being picked up in washington seemed unlikely
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> well rules are rules and we either need to change them or stick to them
[10:05] <Maxell> hehe
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> that's why i did not file B-45 and half a dozen others that clocked 16000+ etc
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> this is just shit :(
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[10:05] <Maxell> ????????????/
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[10:07] <SpeedEvil> Though that last point on moxer-3 shows well over the horizon on aprs.fi. I wonder if aprs.fi doesn't properly compute horizon for both sides at a significant altitude.
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> (rx is at 3000 ft
[10:08] <Maxell> You can click the pgh circkles on the right
[10:09] <Maxell> it has haat
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> yes - I know - hence my 3000 foot comment
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[10:10] <SpeedEvil> Oh - nvm.
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Of course the horizon circles can't take terrain into account, or they wouldn't be circles.
[10:11] <Maxell> ah yesh
[10:11] Action: SpeedEvil is not awake
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[10:13] <jaymzx> I'm saddened to think that B66 is going to fly over and I won't be awake to listen for the tele or APRS. Looks like maybe 4-5 hours or so until it's over Seattle?
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> ^Though actual proper range estimation based on altitude data and fresnel zone calculations would be truly awesome
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> (no, I am regrettably not offering to code such, unless someone can cure CFS)
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[10:36] <Laurenceb__> holy shit B-66
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> mental
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> lol and New Zealand
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> its floaters everywhere
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:37] <qyx_> lets build a network of floaters \o/
[10:37] Nick change: F1VJQ -> F1VJQ_3
[10:37] Nick change: F1VJQ_2 -> F1VJQ
[10:37] <Laurenceb__> yeah its getting to that point
[10:37] <Maxell> qyx_: make them digipeat aprs packets with the LEO3-3 path
[10:37] <Laurenceb__> diy google loon
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[10:38] <Maxell> lol
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[10:39] <F1VJQ> Yeah, I think LOON is a good word to describe it
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[10:41] <F1VJQ> What is this crap> "People can connect to the balloon network using a special Internet antenna"
[10:41] <F1VJQ> and more crap > "The signal bounces from this antenna up to the balloon network"
[10:42] <Maxell> F1VJQ: yeah normal wifi stick is not suffcient yagi required
[10:42] <Laurenceb__> well atm they are using ubiquity kit
[10:42] <Upu> Its real and one of the engineers from the Loon project is coming to the conference to talk to us about it
[10:42] <Laurenceb__> oh cool
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[10:42] <malgar> :O
[10:42] <Laurenceb__> and hire Leo im betting
[10:42] <malgar> great
[10:43] <F1VJQ> it isn't the technology ... it is the stupid way it is described...
[10:43] <Upu> so if you haven't got your tickets...
[10:43] <F1VJQ> singnals do not bounce from antennas
[10:43] <F1VJQ> special INTERNET antenna... nonsense!
[10:43] <Maxell> F1VJQ: it does it AMERICURRRRRRRR
[10:43] <malgar> Upu: conferene will be videorecorded? streamed?
[10:43] <Upu> well this may be an issue
[10:44] <Upu> for this particular talk
[10:44] <Upu> it may not be streamed
[10:44] <Upu> its a commercially sensitive project
[10:44] <Upu> and the talk may just be for attendees only
[10:44] <Upu> I need to clarify it with him
[10:44] <Maxell> hehe
[10:45] <Maxell> Would be nice to have a recording yeah
[10:45] <Upu> well come along
[10:45] <F1VJQ> and balloon internet powered by what?
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> bootlegging opportunity?
[10:45] <Upu> Solar F1VJQ
[10:45] <Upu> they are huge things
[10:46] <Laurenceb__> im not sure about the Loon antenni design
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> need tough secuiuty
[10:46] <Laurenceb__> imo they should use fewer balloons and directional antenna
[10:46] <F1VJQ> Upu ok
[10:46] <Upu> http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/8/7/3/i/1/5/1/o/Google-balloons-02.jpg
[10:46] <Upu> You can take it up with Dan Laurenceb_ :)
[10:46] <Laurenceb__> is B-66 sending a log?
[10:46] <Laurenceb__> 5 days?
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> it is but it has a bug that wipes it on GPS reset
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[10:48] <LeoBodnar> atm it's at today's day
[10:48] <F1VJQ> Aargh!!
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> should roll over to the oldest point soon and we will see
[10:49] <Maxell> Nice!
[10:50] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar is the bug now cleared for future flights?r
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> yep
[10:52] <F1VJQ> OK... was thinking if you have computing space , you could compute distance from waypoint to waypoint and keep cumulative total... could send total in telemetry
[10:54] <Laurenceb__> SP3OSJ did that iirc
[10:55] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: your own loon is easy: make the balloons digipeat any packet with the LEO path: for example: LEO3-3 would get 3 balloon digipeats ;P
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[10:59] <malgar> LeoBodnar: do you plan something new or different for the next flights?
[11:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> He is going to try a flight that goes UP then Bursts and comes Down, he hasn't achieved that yet ;-)
[11:01] <Upu> yeah his recovery rate is rubbish
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> GreenPeace will be complaining soon that they sky is filled with his plastic balloons
[11:04] <F1VJQ> anyone know how feasible uplinking to ISS APRS may be?
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[11:05] <F1VJQ> just wondering if B-series might move to ISS freq in oceans....
[11:05] <Laurenceb__> aadamson tried
[11:05] <Laurenceb__> without luck at 50mW iirc
[11:05] <Laurenceb__> there is SXT-3
[11:05] <Laurenceb__> Leo has some
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Would need an aerial aiming upwards at least ..
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[11:06] <F1VJQ> a dipole dangling vertically would be best best surely
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> i actually get emails from Greenpeace "Help save Arctic"
[11:07] <F1VJQ> upwards, the ISS is only there briefly
[11:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It radiates out horizontally
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> From: Greenpeace <exclusivedeals@principiapromo.com> Subject: Save the Arctic. Sign the petition
[11:07] <F1VJQ> how does that occur?
[11:08] <F1VJQ> vertical dipole = vertical polarised
[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> A vertical dipole has a donut radiation pattern not worried about polarisation at all
[11:09] <F1VJQ> OK
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK tried first [12:05] <Laurenceb__> aadamson tried
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> at 100mW
[11:10] <Laurenceb__> any luck there?
[11:10] <LeoBodnar> 0.0000
[11:10] <Laurenceb__> heh
[11:15] <DL7AD> you cant be recieved by the iss with 100mw. you must have at least 200...300mw emitting it with a cross dipole to the top
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[11:19] <F1VJQ> that's that then!
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[12:19] <malgar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/131018_trj001.gif B-66
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[13:25] <Reb-SM0ULC> hello
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[13:28] <jellyfishtree> hello - is darkside or someone who can approve a document around?
[13:30] <Upu> I can approve them jellyfishtree
[13:30] <jellyfishtree> oh hey Upu. Thanks! my flight doc ID is: 5f676d5c60a23d52c849cb31d0b025b7
[13:31] <Upu> All been tested on spacenear.us and appearing ok etc ?
[13:31] <jellyfishtree> I can see my station on the spacenear.us map
[13:32] <jellyfishtree> but Im not sure what else I can test
[13:32] <Upu> have you uploaded packets from your payload so they appear on spacenear ?
[13:32] <Upu> its much harder to fix once the document has been approved
[13:33] <jellyfishtree> ah, no this I haven't tried. Will do this today then. I figured I would have to get the doc approved before sentences would upload
[13:33] <Upu> no
[13:33] <Upu> you can test as much as you want
[13:33] <Upu> and we encourage it
[13:33] <jellyfishtree> doesn't it pollute the map?
[13:33] <Upu> yeah but the map is wreck anyway at the moment you can't make it any worse :)
[13:33] <Upu> wrecked
[13:33] <jellyfishtree> haha, good to know :)
[13:33] <Upu> I'll remove it when you're done
[13:33] <jellyfishtree> well, im in the states anyways so my stuff will be out of most of your hairs
[13:34] <Upu> you think :)
[13:34] <jellyfishtree> hahaha
[13:35] <jellyfishtree> I don't know why more people in the states don't use the habitat stuff - aprs.fi is a mess to look at
[13:35] <Reb-SM0ULC> jellyfishtree: B-66 inbound Seattle
[13:36] <jellyfishtree> saw that! I'll tune it in if it gets closer to Boston
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[13:37] <jellyfishtree> side question: what do you guys use to attach the parachute ring loops to the balloon?
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[13:39] <jellyfishtree> metal rings? a washer? I've seen like these connectors that are like two rings with a swivel between them
[13:39] <jellyfishtree> not sure if it really matters...
[13:39] <Upu> yeah fishing swivels
[13:39] <Upu> usually just tie string together
[13:40] <jellyfishtree> like tie the strings strung from the balloon directly to the parachute ring loops?
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[13:42] <jellyfishtree> well, anyways...thanks for the pointers on testing. I'll catch you guys later
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[14:06] <amell> just back from the weekend trip. I see i missed all the excitement :)
[14:06] <amell> B-66 and B-63 all ok
[14:07] <amell> did we lose log from B-66?
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Iyes
[14:07] <amell> ah well
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Well, at least some of it
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> I think it has 5 days which will be slowly played back - but that's not enough
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Same with 63
[14:16] <amell> shame b-66 didnt hit arko
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[14:17] <amell> snus appears to have been overtaken by leo. rename to lnus?
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[15:13] <yo9ict> Anyone here familiar with MD80 cameras?
[15:21] <lz1dev> wow b66 is back
[15:23] <N2NXZ> Yes,and trying to hear it on a WA web tuner...seems not many web tuners are very good
[15:24] <N2NXZ> I swaer some of them have no antenna at all :)
[15:24] <GadgetDroid> Is it possible to get a feed of current flights and positions in real-time ?
[15:24] <N2NXZ> If the balloons are over a web tuner station,you can hear it live
[15:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Anybody having a problem with this link is.gd/cxjluS to the habMT ?
[15:24] <LeoBodnar> snus /mt and habmap ?
[15:25] <LeoBodnar> and aprs.fi
[15:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yup g0lfp can't get the link to play
[15:25] <N2NXZ> is this realtime? http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/?filter=B-66
[15:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> yes its realtime
[15:27] <Ian_> B66 last report 1hr 4mins ago - yes
[15:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> 13 min ago on my screen
[15:29] <Laurenceb__> 1minute on mine lol
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> duh
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> .??
[15:30] <lz1dev> crap
[15:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> but the data is coming from snus surely ?
[15:30] <lz1dev> if your local clock is off
[15:30] <lz1dev> the time indicated will be off
[15:31] <LeoBodnar> my APRS import script stopped because i have been kicked from london. aprs server
[15:31] <LeoBodnar> it's running now again so next update should there
[15:31] <LeoBodnar> any minute now
[15:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> ah
[15:32] <lz1dev> LeoBodnar: ruining aprs since 20xx
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> B* = skynet
[15:32] <lz1dev> when people were drafting the spec for aprs, nobody considered leo would be doing this
[15:32] Nick change: jaymzx -> jaymzx_away
[15:33] <Laurenceb__> the a is unfortunately close to s
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[15:34] <LeoBodnar> should have updated now
[15:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> 42 secs ago
[15:35] <lz1dev> Laurenceb__: :(
[15:43] <Ian_> All good here now too. Something must have stalled. A refresh cured it.
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[15:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:05] <MaXimaN> So what is the issue with using APRS for HAB tracker TX? I've seen a few other trackers using this.
[16:05] <MaXimaN> Reaching too many stations and causing congestion?
[16:05] <Lunar_Lander> not allowed in the UK
[16:05] <MaXimaN> Ahhh, so just a UK issue?
[16:05] <lz1dev> MaXimaN: some hams been crying about WIDE2-1
[16:05] <daveake> Some other countries
[16:06] <daveake> Not many
[16:07] <MaXimaN> Ahhh got it
[16:09] <gurgalof> LeoBodnar: I'm curoius which values you used for the output filter on SIxxxx to transmit on both 2m and 70cm
[16:10] <MaXimaN> Why the choice of WIDE2-1? Just increasing the odds of reaching an IGATE?
[16:11] <MaXimaN> (sorry if my questions are 'obvious' - still getting up to speed on APRS :-)
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> gurgalof I have targeted 434 with a sharp roll-off and let 2m be where it is
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> if you want to improve on that you can use p-i-n switched filter
[16:14] <myier> I'm trying to build an antenna for 433MHz reception, a friend told me that a dipole made of two 164mm brass tubes would be good, but I don't find any confirmation on google, anybody knows if it's correct?
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> proper dipole needs either a balloon or symmetrical feed line
[16:15] <LeoBodnar> 1/4 wave GP is probably easier and more practical overall
[16:15] <daveake> s/balloon/balun/ :)
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[16:16] <mikestir> the dimensions are about right though
[16:17] <myier> I'm not sure I understand what you mean about symmetrical feed line, isn't it just a coax cable to the SMA connector?
[16:17] <myier> I asked here before about balun, and people told me that it was required only for TX not RX
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> lol daveake
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> Advanced licence fail
[16:18] <gurgalof> LeoBodnar: wouldn't you get overtones from the 2m transmissions that way
[16:19] <gurgalof> 3rd overtone is on 70cm
[16:19] <myier> and the ground plane for a mobile receiver, is it more practical? It must be harder to build at least
[16:19] <LeoBodnar> yes but their level is at microwatt level
[16:20] <mikestir> myier: it will work better with a balun but you can generally omit it for rx
[16:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> A dipole is a balanced aerial
[16:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> co-ax is an un-balanced feeder
[16:21] <gurgalof> ah true, you only transmit 10mW
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> to get the best results you need a balun Balunced to unbalanced convertor
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> however you only really get problems when trying to transmit a lot of power causing standing waves
[16:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> to appear that can flash over or high currents that melt the co-ax
[16:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> for low power and receive you can get away with a little under performance quite happily!
[16:22] <gurgalof> coax directly to the dipole works fine for 100W on HF
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> quite!
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SWR might not be that good but what the heck
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> there your PA transstors not mine ;-)
[16:24] <gurgalof> I had 1.3, not a problem
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> i could never mentally ignore coax going towards a dipole without balun
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> it becomes a radiating component
[16:24] <myier> in fact, the question is more: will I be able to receive a payload 100km away with a simple coax-fed dipole
[16:25] <myier> or do I need a yagi or to add a balun
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> definitely
[16:25] <myier> great
[16:25] <myier> (and with a FCDP+)
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> you can often receive a payload on that puny magnetic antenna that they include with TV tuners
[16:26] <LeoBodnar> from 100km
[16:26] <gonzo_> you can usually get away without a balun on a dipole
[16:26] <gonzo_> especal;ly as we use vertiva; polaraisation
[16:26] <gonzo_> vertical
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> somebody posted a nice GP making photos on UKHA wiki sometime ago
[16:27] <myier> does this mean that the dipole should be handled vertically?
[16:27] <mfa298> or just use an ugly balun although that's really only of use for TX.
[16:28] <myier> LeoBodnar: there is a tutorial for the payload antenna yes: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payloadantenna
[16:28] <mfa298> Dipole can be vertical or Horizontal (but you want vertical for balloons)
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> yeah but that was for RX station
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[16:28] <gonzo_> the dipole will need to be poining up/down
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> with waterproofing, etc
[16:29] <daveake> These days I tend to use pre-made 1/4 wave antenna as I cba making one anymore
[16:29] <daveake> They work well enough
[16:29] <N2NXZ> Simple RX station antennas > http://www.hamuniverse.com/ve3sqbprog.html
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> was that x-f or xyz_?
[16:31] <mattltm> this works well for a ground station reciving antenna... http://www.m0lmk.co.uk/2010/05/25/12-element-yagi-for-70cm/
[16:32] <N2NXZ> That looks pretty good
[16:32] <mattltm> or a a diy halo if you want an omnidirectonal antenna - http://www.kr1st.com/70cmstack.htm
[16:32] <N2NXZ> Anyone try a QHA for flight? http://rev0proto.com/wiki/index.php/Quadrifilar_Helix#Summary
[16:32] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: is there much log from B-66?
[16:32] <Laurenceb__> i see only yesterday
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> no, it got wiped out
[16:33] <mfa298> I've had reasonable success from home with a DIY 2m dipole shoved out the window (although I do have a decent height advantage) http://m1ari.co.uk/antenna/diy-dipole
[16:33] <N2NXZ> Halo looks interesting
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> N2NXZ: i think somebody from the us sent a mobile phone with picos and it had QFH
[16:33] <mattltm> I built a qha but didnt like it much.
[16:34] <N2NXZ> the 2 meter version works well,70cm not so much
[16:35] <mattltm> mine was very dificult to tune for 70cm
[16:35] <N2NXZ> Maybe good for ISS on 2m,mine works great for that'
[16:35] <myier> would it be bad if I make a folded dipole, the idea being that it can be reused later for the driving element of a Yagi?
[16:35] <myier> I mean is a folded dipole worse than a regular dipole
[16:36] <mattltm> I love folded dipoles!
[16:36] <gurgalof> i recieved B-64 from approx 150km with a ghettomade dipole in my kitchen window with a RTL-SDR, when it was in range for me
[16:36] <myier> wow
[16:36] <mattltm> Nope, in a way, they can be better.
[16:36] <mattltm> More broadband than a boring straight dipole
[16:37] <N2NXZ> The better of the QFA`s http://uuki.kapsi.fi/qha.html
[16:37] <myier> I think I'll directly start with that then, is there a recommended radius for bent part?
[16:37] <mattltm> and easier to bring to 50ohms when stacked or used in a yagi.
[16:37] <mattltm> You need this... http://www.m0lmk.co.uk/tag/folded-dipole/
[16:38] <myier> thank you once more
[16:39] <mattltm> np :)
[16:41] <N2NXZ> Would like to try one of these sometime http://noaaport.poes-weather.com/download/jm-dca/MARTES_Double_Cross_Antenna.pdf
[16:42] <mattltm> Looks a bit like a Lindenblad
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[16:47] <N2NXZ> Yes it does
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[16:47] <LeoBodnar> http://www.q-par.com/products/helical-antennas/240-320-mhz-helical-antennas/images/2-helix-013.jpg?isImage=1
[16:47] <myier> I don't get it. On the page you gave me mattltm there is a link to this page: http://n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/fdipole.htm that helps calculate the radius and so on. Why is D1 different than D2? Isn't it supposed to be the same piece of rod?
[16:47] <N2NXZ> Those are cool
[16:48] <myier> haha yes nice ones
[16:48] <myier> that should be good for an ISS link
[16:49] <myier> if people point it in the right direction
[16:49] <N2NXZ> Some guy gave me for free a Pelco PT1250PP Pan tilt rotatora few weeks ago
[16:49] <N2NXZ> Built like a tank...would be great for antennas
[16:50] <mattltm> you can ignore D1/D2. its the space thats important.
[16:50] <mattltm> just input the same value for D1 and D2 at the bottom of the screen.
[16:50] <myier> but S is an input value, it doesn't matter what value I put?
[16:51] <mattltm> yes. pop in your values and get as close to 200 ohms as you can
[16:51] <myier> also, for a tube instead of a rod, is D1/D2 the outer diameter?
[16:51] <mattltm> yes.
[16:51] <myier> might I ask, why 200 ohms?
[16:52] <mattltm> so it can be fed with a 4:1 balun
[16:52] <myier> (I don't know much about antennas)
[16:52] <myier> oh. Won't that be a problem for RX if I don't use a balun?
[16:52] <mattltm> 50 ohm coax -> 4:1 balun -> 200 ohm dipole
[16:52] <mattltm> it's a simple coax balun. easy to make.
[16:53] <myier> ah.
[16:53] <mattltm> no coils or torroids.
[16:57] <myier> http://n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/balun.htm like that?
[16:57] <mattltm> yup
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[16:59] <LeoBodnar> one thing to remember about transformers is that they transform impedances as square of windings ratio
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> so basically 1:4 balun is a transformer with windings ratio of 1:2
[17:00] <LeoBodnar> either autotransformer or isolated one
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[17:01] <myier> ok thanks
[17:07] <myier> If I understand correctly, once there is a balun, the length of the coax between the radio and the balun isn't very important anymore?
[17:07] <myier> it's just about losses in the cable
[17:09] <myier> I have a 6mm and a 2mm diameter brass tube, which one should I choose for a better antenna?
[17:10] <adamgreig> 2
[17:10] <adamgreig> the bigger the element the broader your bandwidth
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[17:14] <myier> thanks adamgreig
[17:21] <myier> mattltm: when I put D1 and D2 with the same value, R is always 4 and the impedance is 200 ohm no matter what I put in S, I don't understand how R can be smaller than S
[17:23] <myier> also, what's the velocity factor for the balun length calculator? 0.25 for a 1:4?
[17:23] <myier> or is it something else
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[17:28] <myier> unrelated question: for those of you using a step-up voltage regulator, do you measure the battery voltage directly using an analog input of the MCU or do you add a resistor or two before that?
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> depends
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> In general, you want at least one resistor anyway - to limit the current in case of strangeness or misconfiguration
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> And then it's if the ADC range is compatible witht eh battery range
[17:36] <myier> that's what I would think indeed
[17:36] <myier> yes it is
[17:36] <myier> a large resistor only between the input pin and the battery should not drop the measured voltage right?
[17:36] <myier> since the ADC input already has a high resistance
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Read the datasheet - check ADC input current
[17:37] <myier> it's supposed to be very low
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Also, a .1uF cap across the ADC input may help accuracy
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[17:37] <myier> all right
[17:37] <myier> thank you!
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[17:43] <mikestir> <myier> since the ADC input already has a high resistance <-- this is generally not true
[17:43] <mikestir> and it changes during the conversion on a lot of MCUs
[17:43] <mikestir> the datasheet will tell you the maximum source impedance, and sometimes you can trade more impedance for a reduction in sample rate
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[17:58] <SpeedEvil> It's generally true for resistance
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> Not for impedence
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[18:14] <myier> datasheet says: the ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10k ohms
[18:14] <myier> or less
[18:16] <myier> I'm not sure that's what I was looking for
[18:18] <myier> analog input resistance: 100 MOhms
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[18:23] <cipherzero> So I jst wanted to make this clear one more time, in this calculator here, http://habhub.org/calc/
[18:23] <arjun_12> Hi
[18:23] <cipherzero> THe "Volume", http://i.imgur.com/iRXrUb1.png
[18:24] <cipherzero> is how much helium or hydrogen I need to fill it with right?
[18:24] <arjun_12> I am building an payload Android app and wondered how I would output GPS data to the headphone socket?
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[18:29] <lz1dev> does anyone have map lagging when using the mobile tracker on firefox?
[18:30] <qyx_> all
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[18:33] <mattbrejza> arjun_12: you can AM modulate it
[18:34] <lz1dev> qyx_: want to be my beta tester ?:)
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[18:36] <qyx_> beta tester of what?
[18:37] <lz1dev> less laggy mobile tracker
[18:37] <LeoBodnar> qyx_ have you posted recently a link to DIY 70cm antenna making page?
[18:38] <qyx_> just this one http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm
[18:39] <qyx_> and my whip here http://qyx.krtko.org/embedded/433mhz_ground_plane_antenna/
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[18:40] <myier> oh sorry I think I have sent decoded packets for a non-registered flight again, I restarted dl-fldigi and forgot to put it offline
[18:41] <Upu> its ok myier
[18:41] <Upu> what payload name ?
[18:41] <myier> STELLA2
[18:41] <Upu> its not uploaded to the map
[18:41] <Upu> which means you have something wrong somewhere
[18:42] <Upu> [2014-08-03 18:37:15,475] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: No configuration doc for 'STELLA2' found
[18:42] <LeoBodnar> that's the one! myier : http://qyx.krtko.org/embedded/433mhz_ground_plane_antenna/
[18:43] <myier> Upu: maybe I didn't send any then, I'm not having a lot of "green packets"
[18:44] <Upu> no they are getting there you've just not made a payload document to tell Habitat how to decode your daa
[18:44] <qyx_> i also have updated version without glueing but no pictures yet
[18:44] <Upu> data
[18:44] <Upu> myier http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[18:45] <Upu> payload document describes your telemetry string
[18:45] <myier> oh yes I know that I haven't, I don't want it to show on the map, I'm just developing it now
[18:45] <Upu> and doesn't need approving
[18:45] <Upu> ok
[18:45] <Upu> no problems
[18:45] <Upu> don't worry about uploading packets anyway :)
[18:46] <Upu> in the scheme of things I doubt it will be noticed :)
[18:46] <myier> thank you :)
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> it's only citical when there is a live quickly moving up/down flight
[18:46] <LeoBodnar> not measly crawling floaters
[18:46] <myier> I'm not able to decode often anyway, dl-fldigi eats too much CPU, even for a 2.8GHz pentium D
[18:47] <Upu> I don't even want to look at the bandwidth graphs of late
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[18:49] <myier> LeoBodnar: that's a nice antenna, easy to build. Is it better than a folded dipole? What are the basic "field of view" of these two types?
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> ideal dipole and ideal GP have identical radiation patterns
[18:49] <qyx_> don't forget the glue, it is not visible on the last picture
[18:54] <myier> the 164mm length is measured between the edge of the big tube and the end of the wire? or between the center and the end or the two ends of the wires?
[18:55] <myier> and for the center wire, how do you measure it too, doesn't the coax part count?
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[18:56] <LeoBodnar> there will be conductive coupling between coax and the barrel
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> so in first approximation its length is not critical
[18:57] <myier> I think I'm facing a bug in dl-fldigi: sometimes it uses 35% of the CPU and it displays the signals correctly and decodes them, sometimes it goes up to more than a full CPU core and fails to display it properly and decode it too. Have you already seen that?
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> *coax outer conductor
[18:58] <mfa298> myier: what operating system?
[18:58] <myier> Arch Linux
[18:58] <yo9ict> It's just me or B-66 is travelling veeery slow ?
[18:59] <myier> LeoBodnar: so it means that the barrel should be as small as possible?
[18:59] <Upu> is in no rush
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[18:59] <Upu> Sunday driving
[18:59] <mfa298> if you know how to use it something like strace will show what the process is doing
[18:59] <myier> I'll try
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> ~30km/h http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/B-66#g/_speed
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[19:00] <myier> it's much too verbose mfa298
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[19:01] <qyx_> myier: no, it's like continuation of the coax, albeit not good impedance-matched
[19:01] <qyx_> the 164mm of the center wire is measured from the point it escapes the tube
[19:01] <myier> it's mainly writev and poll calls
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[19:02] <myier> qyx_: all right
[19:02] <qyx_> someone with swr meter should measure it
[19:03] <myier> and for the ground wires?
[19:03] <myier> same thing, the end of the tube?
[19:03] Nick change: jaymzx_away -> jaymzx
[19:04] <qyx_> ideally from the center
[19:04] <myier> ok
[19:04] <qyx_> but +-1-2mm doesn't count
[19:04] <myier> fine
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> if you don't have a spectrum analyser don't sweat the small stuff
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> 50% less power out is 20% less range
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> But that's only if you're power limited - line of sight is in general more of a problem
[19:17] <Laurenceb__> is there a hysplit ofr B-63?
[19:21] <N2NXZ> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/?filter=B-63
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> Is there aprs on Funchal?
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> yes
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[19:29] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/135347_trj001.gif
[19:30] <Laurenceb__> might be heard by midnight
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> Two apparantly
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> they got B-45 i think
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> I can't http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FDW3478&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[19:32] <Laurenceb__> extrapolating for B-63, B-66 should fly for at least 7 weeks
[19:32] <myier> maybe it'll pass over me tomorrow
[19:33] <myier> I need to have this antenna done!
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find packets for either of these two stations - other than weather packets
[19:33] <Laurenceb__> thats because they are weather stations
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> I thought that was the case
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&ts=1397433600&te=1397510000&call=a%2FM0XER-5
[19:35] <Laurenceb__> B-63 path looks like it will be similar to that
[19:35] <Laurenceb__> no wait
[19:35] <Laurenceb__> Spain
[19:35] <Laurenceb__> lol
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Those were all being picked up in santa cruz
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I don't see any packets from funchal
[19:37] <jaymzx> B66 is also sending Contestia on 434.5, correct?
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> not over North America
[19:38] <jaymzx> oh :(
[19:38] <jaymzx> What is it sending?
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> aprs
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[19:41] <jaymzx> Is this to avoid interference to subbands here in NA?
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> 434 is an ISM band here
[19:41] <LeoBodnar> so we can send anything we like (almost)
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> in the US it needs converting to ham rules, send ID, making sure it's not on repeater's inputs, etc
[19:42] <qyx_> you could send on 315MHz instead
[19:42] <qyx_> maybe
[19:42] <jaymzx> Ah, I see.
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> reaching the US has been considered impossible at the time of launching it
[19:43] <jaymzx> Given previous experiences?
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> so not much thought went into cherries
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> http://aprs.fi/info/a/IR1UDI-A - I guess this is 'I can't setup my reciever right'
[19:43] <mfa298> assuming you ensure it's on a suitable frequency you could probably just add a ,de M0XER, field to the telem.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> Rather than being in a useful part of the ocean
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> magic 190 hours
[19:43] <jaymzx> Well, congrats on your recent success
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> thanks jaymzx
[19:44] <jaymzx> It's fun to track them and amazing they made it so far-and continuing to go!
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> well i can just send a separate ID packet every 10 minutes i suppose
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> indeed, it's very surprising
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: I assume you've done no seperate UV testing of the film?
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> well only qualitative
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[19:46] <LeoBodnar> that indicated a total fail
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[19:46] <SpeedEvil> False negative :)
[19:46] <Laurenceb__> huh?
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> so B-63 was really a 100% fail launch
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> expected to burst within 30 minutes of sunrise
[19:46] <Laurenceb__> how did you do UV test?
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> against the sun, and with IR thermometer against hot objects
[19:48] <Laurenceb__> i dont follow
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> IR thermometer does not measure object temperature through the film
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> thus IR is blocked
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> thus absorbed
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> it's all very flitstone
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> but i was not looking forward to it
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> oh wait, that was B-62
[19:51] <jaymzx> Could have rented a tanning bed for an hour or so :)
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> the first transparent one
[19:51] <jaymzx> For UV
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> i am getting mixed up
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> gah
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> im confused too
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> i am talking about IR
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> ithought we were talking about UV lolz
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> i need coffee
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> yeah, rewind
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> [<<]
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> No [20:45] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: I assume you've done no seperate UV testing of the film?
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> lets think
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> its pretty similar to packaging film
[19:53] <Laurenceb__> and that takes ~ > 6months to degrade considerably
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[19:53] <LeoBodnar> UV degradation is usually measured in months
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[19:54] <qyx_> is it pvc, pe or pp?
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[19:55] <Laurenceb__> none of the above
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> i think outside layer is PET
[19:55] <Laurenceb__> its below the ozone layer, so im not sure if UV will be considerably higher
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[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Lack of clouds will considerably help
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> as will air mass
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[19:59] <Laurenceb__> tanning hab
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[20:07] <F1VJQ> B-66 about to pass over B-64 track....
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[20:11] <Reb-SM0ULC> evening
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hej
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[20:14] <Reb-SM0ULC> Lunar_Lander: hejhej!
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[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:15] <myier> in fact concerning by dl-fldigi bug, the CPU use is more than normal when sometimes the waterfall accelerates, it gets out of sync somehow
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[20:15] <myier> when it accelerates, CPU gets higher, the lines of reception are more scattered and not decoded
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[20:40] <myier> what's the difference between fldigi's AFC and dl-fldigi's frequency tracking option?
[20:44] <F1VJQ> Seattle.... are you ready for B-66!
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[20:50] <Reb-SM0ULC> F1VJQ: seems to be magnetic for HABs ;)
[20:50] Action: Reb-SM0ULC battling a bit with websdr
[20:51] <F1VJQ> Reb-SM0ULC that's 3 of them all gone over coast near Seattle/Vancouver!
[20:53] <Reb-SM0ULC> F1VJQ: probably just to remind me to go there and ski sometime
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[21:00] <F1VJQ> Reb-SM0ULC as if there is not enough ski-ing in Scandinavia
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[21:03] <Reb-SM0ULC> F1VJQ: snow is there, usually, but but mountains are not that cool, or the snow that dry.. :)
[21:04] <Reb-SM0ULC> F1VJQ: Chamonix is the place to ski :)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> Reb-SM0ULC, today on TV was a documentary about a place in western Sweden
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> was interesting
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> they had snowmobile races on a lake
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> in summer that is
[21:05] <Reb-SM0ULC> Lunar_Lander: :)
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> and about a guy who has a holiday village for tourists who want to bring their dog to holidays
[21:06] <Reb-SM0ULC> Lunar_Lander: it's a bit crazy.. but it works.. my wife grew up in a village where they built snowmobiles and it's still "common" to do it.
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
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[21:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> myier, the AFC controls the frequency that the modem listens on within the passband,
[21:14] <Laurenceb__> Seattle is like the Caucuses
[21:14] <Laurenceb__> its a mirror point for habs
[21:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> however when the AFC shifts by the amount setup in the dl- config tab then a command can be sent to the reciever to change frequency if the receiver has some form of CAT control.
[21:15] <amell> B-66 seems very slow!
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> UK to Seattle parcel service here we come
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[21:17] <myier> oh ok thanks Geoff-G8DHE_
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[21:18] <amell> With all these Bs floating about Im getting concerned about Leobodnar pollution of the airwaves. 434.LEO will be unusable everywhere.
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:19] <amell> would be nice to launch a couple more.
[21:19] <SgtBurned> Hey Guys and Gals
[21:19] <amell> but i suspect the snus map cant take any more...
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[21:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> My brain still is broken, LEO = Low Earth Orbit
[21:21] <Reb-SM0ULC> which now seem to to be true.. very low orbit...
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[21:32] <cipherzero> So just to be clear, the "Volume" in this page is how uch helium I need right? http://habhub.org/calc/
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:38] <myier> qyx_: I'm curious, how did you make the square holes in the wood for the ground plane antenna?
[21:39] <myier> that's the hard part
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[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> drill?
[21:40] <Ian_> Round hole and add corners with a chisel :)
[21:41] <Ian_> or four small holes and add square hole with fret saw.
[21:43] <myier> I'm wondering what I can replace all that with
[21:43] <myier> because I don't have them right now
[21:45] <myier> maybe it can be done just with two nylon collars
[21:45] <myier> but they would melt
[21:55] <myier> what length of coax you would say acceptable to link a ground plane antenna to a FCDP+?
[21:58] <qyx_> myier: cnc :D
[22:02] <qyx_> how much do you want, even RG174 or RG58 has quite low attenuation at this freq
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[22:04] <qyx_> you can also use kapton tape to hold things together
[22:04] <myier> that's cheating!
[22:04] <myier> ok
[22:04] <myier> I don't have that either
[22:04] <qyx_> or paper tape
[22:05] <qyx_> also heat shrink tubing may be acceptable, although it tend to bubble and evaporate at higher temperatures
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[22:27] <N2NXZ> Any rocket enthusiests in this group?
[22:27] <amell> lol
[22:27] <amell> shoot?
[22:28] <N2NXZ> Just finished our major rocket project on the cheap :)
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[22:28] <N2NXZ> http://s430.photobucket.com/user/N2NXZ/slideshow/Rockets
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[22:29] <N2NXZ> criticism welcome ...lol
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> oh fuel
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> great stuff
[22:30] <N2NXZ> And rocket body...funny how we did it,hope it holds up
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> you'd be arrested in this country for doing that
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool! :)
[22:31] <N2NXZ> ha ha
[22:31] <N2NXZ> that sucks
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> indeed
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[22:31] <amell> Leobodnar: many people do that in this country.
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[22:31] <N2NXZ> for sugar and food preservatives?
[22:31] <amell> how many % KN2?
[22:32] <N2NXZ> 65 x 35
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-26496032
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[22:32] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as82OA_GtnA - takes a lot of skill to fly that badly
[22:32] <amell> have you tried burning it in a clamp? clean smooth burn?
[22:33] <amell> Leobodnar: making sugar propellent is not an explosive
[22:33] <N2NXZ> no,but tested one grain in a pvc tube for kicks...i can only imagine what 5.5 grains will do in that aluminum tube
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[22:34] <N2NXZ> Going to take shelter during launch on the property
[22:34] <amell> N2NXZ: so you have no idea what thrust youre going to produce?
[22:34] <amell> who is the hairy guy?
[22:34] <N2NXZ> nope,loike my balloons...winging it !!
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[22:34] <N2NXZ> I am the hairy guy
[22:34] <N2NXZ> lol
[22:34] <amell> ah :)
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> can u put sensorzs into the noze cone?!
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> (satire)
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:35] <N2NXZ> We are cheap asses...launch and run
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[22:35] <N2NXZ> Maybe 50 bucks into it
[22:35] <amell> im a little worried that the alu tube will burn through. how are you putting forward closure on it, whats the nozzle?
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> my understanding is that you can't do anything related to propellants without the explosives licence
[22:35] <N2NXZ> My son wants to do it next weekend,no time for cool stuff like parachutes
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattltm
[22:36] <amell> Leobodnar: I have a pile of propellent in my garage - its exempt from explosives license as long as its under 1kg per load.
[22:37] <N2NXZ> Aluminom 1/2 inch slugs on each end,one with countersunk 3/8th hole
[22:37] <amell> so youre launching a rocket straight up, with no chute?
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> yes but they cannot be modified
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[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Solid rocket manufacture in the UK requires a fireworks factory licence.
[22:37] <N2NXZ> 5lbs here
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Which specifies minimum distances like 100 yards, and requires large earth berms and stuff
[22:37] <N2NXZ> we own 500 acres
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> yeah - the application process is also not automatic
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[22:39] <N2NXZ> suspect may have been making fireworks
[22:39] <N2NXZ> crazy stuff
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[22:42] <N2NXZ> The plane video is pretty cool
[22:45] <Ian_> That looks like making rocket motors from shortbread mix or chappatis . . . Yum, could get a taste for rocketry with chemistry like that :)
[22:45] <N2NXZ> So some of you can not purchase any of this stuff? http://www.skylighter.com/
[22:47] <pd3t> did we noticed B-66 showed up in the US?.
[22:49] <pd3t> *notice
[22:57] <KT5TK> pd3t: Yes, it showed up last night.
[22:57] <pd3t> hmm i missed it ;)
[23:04] <Reb-SM0ULC> it's not speedy gonzales
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> It's about to hit land at Aberdeen.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> Half an hour or so
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> Just south of the border
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[23:14] <mfa298> For a minute I got confused and thought it had already made it's way back to the UK
[23:14] <mfa298> then I realised half of the US uses place names from Europe
[23:15] <myier> I don't understand how is calculated the impedance of a folded dipole antenna. Many sites state it is around 300 ohm, while we are aiming for 200; is it just defined by the coax cable used to connect it to a receiver?
[23:15] <mfa298> The impedance of the antenna is defined by it's shape and size
[23:16] <myier> that's clearly not well documented
[23:16] <mfa298> folded dipole will be around 200-300 ohms (I was taught you can make a fairly basic folded dipole out of 300R balanced feeder)
[23:16] <qyx_> heh aberdeen
[23:17] <myier> I could find that the length of the folded dipole should be half the wavelength, but the radius and consequently the total length of the rod/tube don't seem to matter
[23:17] <qyx_> it is mentioned in jasper forks music video
[23:18] <mfa298> there looks to be a fair bit of decent information on http://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/foldeddipole.php
[23:18] <mfa298> (first hit I got on google)
[23:19] <adamgreig> oh man, there was a question about this in my US licence exam
[23:19] <adamgreig> I had no idea what it was :P
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeen_Proving_Ground - what could possibly go wrong?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> (it's not that aberdeen)
[23:20] <mfa298> myier: I'm hopefully pointing out the obvious but a folded dipole needs two sets of rods so they effectivly make a loop
[23:21] <myier> mfa298: that's what's not clear!
[23:21] <myier> on the drawing there is only one rod, and on many others too
[23:21] <myier> http://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/Dipole_folded.php
[23:21] <myier> http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/diy-yagi/dipoles.htm
[23:22] <mfa298> from memory the radius of the bits of rod/tube won't have much impact on the frequency / impedance of the folded dipole. But it will impact things like bandwidth / selectivity
[23:22] <myier> and this one that I've been given here: http://www.m0lmk.co.uk/2010/05/09/folded-dipole-jig/
[23:23] <mfa298> It can be one piece of rod or several pieces. If it's several piece then they need to be joined together.
[23:24] <mfa298> for larger antennas copper piping (as used for plumbing) is often used at which point it's easier to using soldered joints rather than trying to bend it yourself
[23:25] <myier> ok
[23:25] <myier> I have a 2mm brass rod, that won't be a problem to bend it
[23:26] <myier> but I still haven't found, in the case of a bent pipe, if the complete length of the rod should change with the radius or not
[23:28] <myier> and yes your link is quite good with impedances, I just don't know how to use it, my bad
[23:29] <mfa298> If you've ever used an FM radio antenna that looks like http://i47.tinypic.com/s2d2j5.jpg then that's also a folded dipole
[23:30] <myier> never seen that
[23:30] <amell> B-66 might actually make landfall sometime soon
[23:30] <amell> about 30 mins.
[23:31] <amell> its ridiculously slow
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[23:33] <jaymzx> Weather is nice over the region. Not too many pressure gradients and the jetstream is probably to the North.
[23:35] <jaymzx> 82 deg F in Seattle at the moment :)
[23:35] <mfa298> from quickly scanning through the page I linked I think the important factor is the length (L) of the main section. However the seperation of the two parts (d) could play a part. If you're struggling with folded dipoles you may be better off making a simple dipole or groundplane antenna first
[23:37] <myier> yes
[23:38] <myier> I was going for the ground plane but my tube is 5cm short...
[23:38] <amell> is there a source of street imagery other than google streetview?
[23:40] <mfa298> If it's too short for a ground plane antenna then it's probably too short for a folded dipole.
[23:42] <mfa298> for a groundplane antenna the driven element is 1/4 wavelength. You then have a number of groundplane elements (3 would do, more than 5 may not give you much) which should be similar length but if they're slighlty out it shouldn't make a huge difference.
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[23:42] <myier> well the dipole is around 60cm length, but the ground plane needs 5 times 164
[23:42] <myier> mm
[23:42] <myier> ok
[23:43] <mfa298> For a dipole you need a total length of 1/2 wave length, for a folded dipole you need 1 whole wave length, possibly a bit more for the sides (d in the page I linked above)
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[23:43] <mfa298> remember that for any antenna you're building the lengths all depend on the frequency your making it for.
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[23:45] <myier> yes
[23:45] <mfa298> the lengths are usually slighlty shorter than 300/MHz (in metric) due to velocity factor (which is around 0.95 for a groundplane and dipole antenna, probably similar for a folded dipole)
[23:46] <Ian_> myier: while I applaud your tenacity and all your concerns, Occam's razor suggests that simple is good and usually right. With this much concern over your antenna, you are going to have no hair very soon. Don't worry too much.
[23:47] <myier> indeed. I'm concerned because I'll probably be the only listener, so it needs to work perfectly
[23:47] <mfa298> Personally I'd probably go for the groundplane design and if you don't have enough rod for 4 wires in the ground section just use three.
[23:48] <myier> the advantages of the folded dipole are that it is more easy to transport than the gp and also that it can be used as the driving element for a yagi
[23:48] <mfa298> that gives something that's easy to make and easy to adjust for a good impedance match by bending the ground radials further away from the driven element (assuming you have a way to measure the impedance)
[23:48] <myier> and it shouldn't be that complicated to make
[23:49] <myier> but you're probably right, the ground plane is very easy to build
[23:49] <myier> I don't have a way to measure that (or I don't know how to)
[23:50] <qyx_> myier: so use 5cm tube
[23:50] <mfa298> I think you may need to decided what's important. Something that you can get working quickly or something that may take a bit longer but may be more useful in the long term
[23:50] <myier> what do you mean qyx_?
[23:50] <myier> exatly
[23:50] <myier> +c
[23:51] <qyx_> 01:38 < myier> I was going for the ground plane but my tube is 5cm short...
[23:51] <Ian_> For a temporary job, one guitar string has enough material to make a small 1/4 wave ground plane whip. The thinner elements make it slightly more notchy 168mm for 434MHz.
[23:51] <mfa298> However a folded dipole that's tuned for use on it's own may not be properly tuned for use in a Yagi (the extra elements will have an impact on how it works) so one antenna used in both situations may not be the best.
[23:52] <Ian_> If you use tube, then make the radials slightly short and then attach extensions to them.
[23:53] <myier> qyx_: I don't get it. The tube I'm talking about is the 1 metre tube that should be cut in 5, but indeed with 4 (3 grounds) that would make it
[23:53] <Ian_> Adding a reflector to a folded dipole will bring down the impedance and similarly when adding directors, which is why it is a good choice in the first place as it all ends up a lot nearer to the wanted 50 omhs.
[23:53] <myier> Ian_: that's not for temporary, it's for a flight
[23:54] <mfa298> myier: what frequency are you aiming for with this antenna ?
[23:54] <qyx_> myier: ah..
[23:54] <myier> mfa298: around 434.3 MHz
[23:54] <myier> oh ok Ian_
[23:54] <Ian_> Take mfa298 profferred advice and go for the ground plane. OK not temporary, but if it works at less than 50p/0.5Euro then you have confidence that the dimensions are good.
[23:55] <mfa298> 1m of tube cut into 5 will give elements longer than you need for 434.3
[23:56] <Ian_> And it will be useful, even if you stick it on a payload instead of on the end of a stick/mast.
[23:56] <mfa298> each element should be ~164mm long, 164 * 5 = 820mm (so you've got 180mm spare
[23:56] <myier> yes, but you need to solder them, and I have 910mm, so that's really the limit
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[23:57] <mfa298> well 910 is still longer than the required 820mm for 1 driven element and 4 ground radials
[23:57] <myier> you need at least 2cm to fix the rods on the main like that http://qyx.krtko.org/embedded/433mhz_ground_plane_antenna/
[23:58] <myier> but if the length of the ground radials is not that much important, I can make them 1cm shorter
[23:59] <qyx_> 910/5 = 182
[23:59] <qyx_> you still have 18mm to solder
[00:00] --- Mon Aug 4 2014