highaltitude.log.20140730

[00:00] <amell> ohh. an improvement
[00:00] <amell> still fsphil fail though :)
[00:00] <F1VJQ> amell I see... he must be on hols there
[00:01] <amell> ive discovered its a yacht
[00:01] <F1VJQ> OK
[00:01] <amell> http://www.yachttrack.org/yacht_info/getShipInfo.php?MyCallSign=OE1FPC
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[00:01] <F1VJQ> at least that suggests there is APRS receive in that area
[00:02] <amell> there is a button to email the guy. if anyone wants to do so, might be able to help but I doubt he can upload audio from a yacht.
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[00:08] <F1VJQ> Iceland seems to have good APRS coverage... searched M0XER and 24hours ... heat map looks interesting
[00:10] <ulfr_> Hmm.
[00:10] <ulfr_> Should I sound the alarms?
[00:11] <amell> doubt it will get in range
[00:12] <ulfr_> Then no need.
[00:12] <amell> hysplit shows its staying a long way from iceland
[00:12] <ulfr_> hmm..
[00:15] <F1VJQ> amell I'mm puzzled at the 90 degree turn that is assumed... and that no Greenland APRS receiver reports anything
[00:15] <ulfr_> Does greenland have any aprs stuff?
[00:15] <amell> eh? we do have a report from greenland APRS.
[00:16] <amell> a recording of B-63 from someone in Nuuk
[00:16] <F1VJQ> well that boat must be reporting somehow
[00:16] <amell> that boat, i think is using some proprietary APRS uplink to a central server.
[00:16] <amell> i think its probably doing it via satellite.
[00:16] <F1VJQ> OK
[00:17] <ulfr_> Well, OX3HI seems to have an igate
[00:18] <ulfr_> but he didn't receive any packets from b-63
[00:19] <ulfr_> In fact, no igate in greenland seems to have dones so
[00:19] <F1VJQ> quite so... thats not good
[00:19] <amell> OX3HI isnt an igate?
[00:20] <ulfr_> Looks like it, but it hasn't recieved any packets from m0xer
[00:20] <amell> how can it? it isnt internet connected.
[00:20] <F1VJQ> we'll find out in the morning!!
[00:20] <F1VJQ> night all... late here
[00:21] <amell> OX3HI is not an igate. OX3HI sent an email with audio recording, this was then decoded by DL7AD.
[00:21] <ulfr_> amell: look at raw packes on aprs.fi for b-63
[00:21] <ulfr_> ah
[00:21] <ulfr_> I see.
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[00:22] <amell> 2014-07-27 15:06:04 BST: KC6VVT>M0XER-4: Great flight! Good luck 73 de Pat
[00:22] <amell> 2014-07-27 15:07:42 BST: M0XER-4>KC6VVT: Thanks! 73 Leo
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[02:01] <N2NXZ> Good night to those still up,long day today.
[02:03] <N2NXZ> If anyone is bored,testing the 10mw RTTY beacon all night on 10.139 mhz to see how the battery pack holds up.73
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[08:24] <otheif> Why is the distance from the balloon to the parachute always so long? What is the purpose? http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons_files/line.jpg
[08:25] <mfa298> it affects how it swings (i.e. the pendulum affect), it will also help any balloon remains to not foul the parachute
[08:26] <otheif> OK. what is a good distance then?
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[08:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL7AD_mobile2 Hi Sven. How did you get a aprs from B-64?
[08:33] <LeoBodnar> OX3XR emailed an audio record
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[08:43] <fsphil> still nothing
[08:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok nice
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[08:57] <thasti> hi tracker-builders: has anyone of you experienced that the Si4060 reponds with CTS for every command, except the "power up" command? it seems to lock up if i send this command and never returns CTS (not even on the CTS GPIO, configured by default) ..
[08:59] <fsphil> maybe you're sending it too quickly
[09:00] <fsphil> I have a short delay after powering on before trying to talk to the chip
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[09:02] <thasti> well IIRC i tried that, and seemed to get me nowhere .. - by the way: is it advised to send any other intialisation before issuing the power-up command or afterwards?
[09:03] <thasti> i get correct part_info from the device, so i assume my communications are working OK
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[09:18] <cipher0> I've made a nice styrofoam box, but the hole for the camera ruins the whole thermal insulation and the temperature inside is the same as outside. What am I doing wrong?
[09:19] <edmoore> worrying about it
[09:20] <edmoore> more explicitly, assuming that thermal tranfer mechanisms on the ground are characteristic of the thermal problem you're trying to solve at high altitudes, and moreover assuming that it will be a problem at high altitudes
[09:21] <edmoore> just instrument it and launch it and see what happens :)
[09:21] <cipher0> well its costy to just experiment...
[09:21] <cipher0> I assumed if there are some guides to follow and some general rules than I should know that first
[09:21] <edmoore> ok, you have two options
[09:21] <edmoore> analysis
[09:21] <edmoore> or experimentation
[09:22] <edmoore> if going down the route of the former, you'll have to understand the thermal environment
[09:22] <cipher0> If I knew enough to analyze it myself, I wouldnt ask it here, sorry
[09:22] <edmoore> and be able to model the inside of your payload box from a radiation pov
[09:23] <edmoore> sure, so i'm suggesting option 3: take it from people who've done it before that it's not really something you need to worry about
[09:24] <edmoore> assuming it's a normal microcontroller payload, a few aa batteries, and some random camera taking pics every few seconds
[09:24] <cipher0> Oh, it isnt? OK.
[09:24] <edmoore> there's enough self-heating there to keep everything fine, provided you're using industrially rated components for the most part
[09:25] <cipher0> what Im worrying about is the batteries, they "shut down" at -15C or something
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[09:25] <edmoore> which batteries are you using?
[09:25] <cipher0> I have a camera inside, an AA battery and small GPS system
[09:25] <edmoore> i'd use energizer lithium ultimate batteries
[09:25] <edmoore> they don't shut down at -15
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[09:25] <cipher0> Panasonic Alkaline. just for testing
[09:26] <edmoore> fyi the industrial temperature rating is -40-(80-120) celcius usually
[09:26] <LeoBodnar> Powerup resets the chip
[09:26] <edmoore> ok, don't fly those alkalines
[09:26] <edmoore> fly lithiums
[09:27] <cipher0> OK, but I think the built in batteries of my gps and camera are lithium and they also dry up very fast at that temp. Might need to do more tests for the GPS though
[09:27] <edmoore> 1) use specifically those lithium primary cells i suggested
[09:27] <edmoore> generically 'lithium' could be one of many chemistries, all of which are not the same
[09:28] <cipher0> What kind of lithium do you mean? its surprisingly hard to find the exact brand of batteries youre looking for here
[09:28] <edmoore> where are you?
[09:28] <cipher0> Armenia
[09:28] <cipher0> also, do you mean rechargable batteries?
[09:28] <edmoore> ah
[09:28] <edmoore> you must talk to arko
[09:29] <cipher0> hes not in Armenia
[09:29] <edmoore> he can probably get them to you via the glendale-armenia smuggling pipeline
[09:29] <mfa298> if the gps is some off the shelf device temperature that the internal batteries work at might be the smaller of your problems. How does it get it's data back to earth, what's the altitude limit of the gps are the first questions I'd be asking...
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[09:29] <LeoBodnar> Varta makes Lithiums
[09:29] <LeoBodnar> it's not just Energizer
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[09:30] <edmoore> http://www.energizer.com/batteries/performance-lithium/ultimate-lithium/Pages/aa.aspx
[09:30] <LeoBodnar> world seems to be split between battery cartels
[09:30] <edmoore> sure, just make sure it's the right chemistry
[09:30] <cipher0> if you know what kind of lithium i can just look for that
[09:30] <cipher0> Duracell is popular here
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[09:31] <edmoore> that pdf is your friend, use it when comparing to other batteries, and if other manufacturers do not release such good documentation, do lots of testing
[09:31] <edmoore> or just use the known-good energizers
[09:31] <cipher0> OK
[09:31] <LeoBodnar> i think DL7AD_mobile2 had problems finding Energizers in Germany and used Varta and it worked just as well
[09:31] <cipher0> OK
[09:31] <LeoBodnar> but given choice - Energizer!
[09:31] <cipher0> ok
[09:31] <LeoBodnar> Varta Lithiums!
[09:31] <cipher0> hm
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[09:32] <DL7AD> morning
[09:32] <cipher0> OK, I'll try
[09:32] <cipher0> so you're saying th styrofoam box people use isnt mainly for thermal insulation?
[09:32] <LeoBodnar> Make sure it's right chemistry indeed as Ed says Lithium/Iron Disulfide (Li/FeS2)
[09:32] <LeoBodnar> cuz marketing
[09:32] <cipher0> right
[09:33] <edmoore> cipher0, it is usually a mix of structural and thermal
[09:33] <edmoore> it helps
[09:33] <edmoore> just be aware that most of your thermal loss at 30km will be radiative
[09:33] <edmoore> not convective
[09:33] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/199163_trj001.gif
[09:33] <Laurenceb__> lol its 50/50
[09:34] <edmoore> that works still if the inside of the polystyrene box is warmed up to the same termperature as the electronics - there won't be much radiative transfer between electronics and surroundings
[09:34] <edmoore> i.e. the electronics will stay warmer
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> you'd be surprised at heat energy flow through even a well insulated box
[09:34] <edmoore> there is an optimum thickness
[09:35] <LeoBodnar> but at least it stops convective cooling
[09:35] <edmoore> it's a tradeoff between the thermal conduction of the polystyrene (thicker is better) and the corresponding increase in surface area of the outside of the box (thinner is better)
[09:36] <craag> Laurenceb__: possible UK eta early tomorrow morning if I'm reading that right?
[09:36] <Laurenceb__> yes
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> use GFS05 Laurenceb__
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[09:37] <mfa298> cipher0: what gps device are you using (how does it send data back to you)? I suspect the batteries may be only one of the issues with using it.
[09:37] <mfa298> samn, he quit
[09:38] <mfa298> s/samn/damn/
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/199284_trj001.gif
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> GFS05 says UK
[09:41] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/199345_trj001.gif
[09:41] <LeoBodnar> ah
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[09:42] <LeoBodnar> what are their deviation parameters?
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> x,y,z?
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> or atmospherics as well?
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[09:42] <Laurenceb__> aiui latitude,longitude and time steps
[09:43] <Laurenceb__> so half a step in each "direction" and interpolate
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[09:43] <Laurenceb__> from the model grid
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[09:44] <LeoBodnar> 0.5 is half degree so ~50km grid
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[09:44] <Laurenceb__> yeah something like that
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[09:44] <LeoBodnar> regular GFS i think is 1 degree
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[10:07] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: i think i found something
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/tdump.199882.txt
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> this is an ensemble for http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/199882_trj001.gif
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[10:08] <LeoBodnar> looks like it only contains first altitide 12200m
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> which makes sense, if they are deviating parameters they deviate only one starting position, not 3
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> so 1st altitude should be the most expected or average one
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> when you run ensemble
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[10:20] <lz1dev> why not just run the ensemble with one altitude
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[10:24] <SQ5NWI> Good afternoon all. How DL7AD received B-64 position last night?
[10:24] <UpuWork> a recording sent from Greenland
[10:24] <UpuWork> played back
[10:27] <SQ5NWI> Wow! So there is an secret Agent (James Bond)? ;-) That is amazing like whe B-64 and B-63 flights.
[10:28] <UpuWork> no just a radio amateur who didn't know how to turn on the TNC in his handheld :)
[10:28] <daveake> ha
[10:30] <mfa298> you mean there are radio amateurs who use they're amateur radios to do amateur radio (rather than ISM band stuff) :p
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[10:34] <daveake> shocking
[10:34] <craag> how boring of them
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[10:51] <Johnwulp> Hi all, I am planning to launch a balloon from the Netherlands at the end of the summer, and want to buy a ntx2 module. There is a note on the page that says: IMPORTANT : Before placing your order for the module please come visit us on IRC so we can advise you on the ordering options for this module. What kind of options are there?
[10:54] <Maxell> Oh hello there.
[10:55] <Maxell> Nederlands \o/ jeej
[10:55] <daveake> ping UpuWork
[10:55] <daveake> You have a customer :)
[10:55] <lz1dev> s/ding/ping/
[10:55] <lz1dev> wait, thats not how substitude works
[10:57] <Johnwulp> Maxell: Ja inderdaad 😉
[10:59] <Maxell> Johnwulp: where in The Netherlands are you located? I HABed too in The Hague: https://revspace.nl/HAB_launch and https://revspace.nl/HAB_launch_2
[10:59] <Maxell> Johnwulp: And there might be another HAB flight in The Hague soon :)
[10:59] <edmoore> i once nearly bombed estec with a hab
[10:59] <Johnwulp> I live in oud beijerland
[10:59] <edmoore> my sympathies have changed little since i joined the space industry
[11:02] <Johnwulp> Maxell: I am gathering all the parts together, I had a old gps module and arduino. The code I want to use is ready, I only need to buy a radio, a good gps (ublox max7) and a balloon.
[11:02] <daveake> Which GPS module?
[11:03] <daveake> oh sorry you said you're buying one. That's fine.
[11:04] <Johnwulp> I have a old Chinese one, but it couldn't find any specs for it, so maybe it doesn't work over 5km or so.
[11:05] Nick change: clopez_ -> clopez
[11:05] <daveake> This is a GSM/GPS thing?
[11:06] <Johnwulp> No only gps. Just a simple 9600 baud. I believe the brand name was fairtek or something.
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[11:07] <edmoore> GoodLuckNav
[11:07] <daveake> ah ok. yeah don't bother flying it. It'll probably crap out at 18km if that
[11:08] <Johnwulp> It isn't worth the risk indeed
[11:11] <bertrik> edmoore: :)
[11:12] Nick change: craag -> craag_philcrump
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[11:20] <Maxell> Johnwulp: sounds like you know what you are doing. Great! :)
[11:21] <Johnwulp> Maxell: Hopefully! I did read
[11:22] <Johnwulp> A lot
[11:32] <Maxell> :)
[11:39] <Johnwulp> Maxell: Did you report your flights anywhere in the Netherlands?
[11:41] <Maxell> Johnwulp: nope, http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0007094/geldigheidsdatum_12-07-2013
[11:41] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14047_trj001.gif
[11:41] <Laurenceb_> latest hysplit
[11:41] <Maxell> Or more recent, http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0007094/geldigheidsdatum_30-07-2014
[11:41] <Johnwulp> Maxell: Thanks 😉
[11:41] <Laurenceb_> still small chance of going west again
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> but all in range of aprs
[11:42] <Laurenceb_> by friday
[11:42] <craag_philcrump> So perhaps in UK range early tomorrow evening?
[11:43] <malgar> Laurenceb_: interesting
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> need someone in Cornwall with a yagi tonight
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> night just pick it up after midnight
[11:44] <UpuWork> who is hte 0x04 person
[11:44] <UpuWork> or whatever it is
[11:44] Action: craag_philcrump might arrange a radio club outing to go and receive it.... mfa298 ?
[11:45] <mfa298> if that's an evening it might require me to leave the office at a sensible time ...
[11:45] <craag_philcrump> yeah dunno, could just sit in the maths tower.
[11:46] Action: mfa298 wonders if he has enough bits to try making a yagi this evening
[11:47] <mfa298> could probably do quite well stuck out a window of my flat
[11:47] <craag_philcrump> yeah I was just thinking your flat might even be better :P
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[11:48] <mfa298> this may require it being less of an asault course to get into ....
[11:49] <fsphil> keeps it interesting
[11:49] <craag_philcrump> Is there anywhere else on campus that has a good view to the south/west?
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[11:50] <craag_philcrump> I think maths trumps all but faraday
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[11:51] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: ^^ re ensemble details
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> oh interesting
[11:52] <craag_philcrump> LeoBodnar: The 434 aprs, is that afsk?
[11:52] <craag_philcrump> FM afsk
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> yes
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> 434.500
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm ill run again
[11:53] <craag_philcrump> ok, will set up ready for that :)
[11:53] <LeoBodnar> small difference but still
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14406_trj001.gif
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> looks a lot better
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> APRS by Friday
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> whatever route it takes
[11:57] <Laurenceb_> but unlikely to see anything until midday Thursday
[11:57] <LeoBodnar> did you manage to get Hysplit running locally?
[11:57] <Laurenceb_> actually ~50% chance of horizon reaching Cornwall on thursday morning
[11:57] <Laurenceb_> no
[11:58] <Laurenceb_> is there a download?
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> i t has an interesting option of "constant density" which is not available on the web UI
[11:58] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> which is exactly what SP follows
[11:58] <Laurenceb_> too much going on atm - back to PMIC hacking
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> ok
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> i thought you said it needs some registration with educational body
[11:59] <Laurenceb_> ill try later then
[12:00] <Laurenceb_> 1 thing at a time :P
[12:05] <Maxell> ISM aprs could be a thing.
[12:06] <Maxell> Not sure about digigpeating with 25 watts tho
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> if you are digipeating on the ground then it is AR and 25W is ok
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> even if ISM band
[12:12] <craag_philcrump> yep, just take responsibility for what you're TXing and it doesn't matter where you got it from
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> "supervised and all that"
[12:14] <F1VJQ> What do we do with APRS on 434.500? Is that right?
[12:15] <craag_philcrump> F1VJQ: igate it normally
[12:15] <craag_philcrump> just tune to 434.500 instead of 144.800
[12:15] <F1VJQ> ah... assuming I know anything about aprs!
[12:16] <F1VJQ> I'll have a yagi pointing out into Biscay/Atlantic late tonight
[12:16] <fsphil> exciting
[12:16] <craag_philcrump> I'm not sure what the latest fashion is in software
[12:16] <craag_philcrump> I'll try to audio record everything too incase I've mucked up the TNC
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[12:17] <LeoBodnar> there was a suggestion to set up a network using existing 433.something APRS allocation
[12:18] <fsphil> 433.800 is the 'official' 70cm aprs frequency
[12:18] <fsphil> and also happens to be in the ISM band
[12:18] <fsphil> but it might be too noisy
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> indeed so 10mW APRS ISM transmitter fits in nicely
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> airborne
[12:19] <F1VJQ> is there any SIMPLE igate software for Windows?
[12:20] <F1VJQ> by SIMPLE, I mean intuitive, not dozens of command line files
[12:22] <jededu> Can somone tell me which checksum calculator I can use test my output
[12:23] <daveake> Intuitive ham software?
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[12:23] <daveake> Are you a comedian? :p
[12:23] <lz1dev> :D
[12:23] <fsphil> jededu: http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
[12:23] <lz1dev> aprs is serious buisness
[12:23] <lz1dev> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=UI-View32
[12:24] <jededu> I am using http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html
[12:24] <jededu> 0xFFFF ?
[12:24] <fsphil> the CRC you're after is called "CRC-CCITT (0xFFFF)"
[12:25] <Laurenceb_> anyone here familiar with i2c under linux?
[12:25] <daveake> A bit
[12:25] <daveake> "no longer maintained due to the source code being destroyed after Roger's death per his wishes"
[12:25] <Laurenceb_> im trying to access a device
[12:25] <jededu> Thats what I thought thanks fsphil
[12:25] <daveake> goggle
[12:25] <Laurenceb_> i2cdetect shows UU
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> meaning the device is in use by kernel driver
[12:26] <lz1dev> daveake: why would you want the source destroyed
[12:26] <daveake> Well quite
[12:26] <fsphil> it must have been pretty horrible
[12:26] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to fix this?
[12:26] <lz1dev> how horrible can it be
[12:26] <lz1dev> it's still a massive amount of manhours
[12:28] <fsphil> guess we'll never know
[12:28] <fsphil> it's an odd request
[12:28] <daveake> Not come across that Laurenceb
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> ok nvm
[12:28] <fsphil> maybe it used code he didn't have a license for
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> i may need to recompile the kernel
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> but i dont understand how all this stuff fits together
[12:28] <daveake> Is this device likely to be used by the kernel or does it just happen to have the same address as something that does?
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> i wouldnt know what to change
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> its the PMIC
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> so it is being used
[12:28] <daveake> Might be an option somewhere to disable it
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> but i hoped to access it to force battery modes
[12:29] <daveake> ah ok
[12:29] <jededu> Do we checksum the $$
[12:29] <daveake> no
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> im not sure what happens if kernel and user try to access pmic at the same time
[12:29] <jededu> Ok
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> presumably requests will be queued?
[12:29] <daveake> $$ stuff * CRC
[12:29] <daveake> CRC operates on "stuff"
[12:30] <daveake> you would hope Laurenceb_
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> my first challenge is to understand how PMIC drivers work
[12:30] <jededu> Thx
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> there is a driver in mainline kernel for the PMIC on BBB
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> but its just generic stuff
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> all the board specific config must reside somewhere else
[12:30] <Laurenceb_> but i dont know where
[12:31] <Laurenceb_> is there an idiots guide to PMIC + linux anywhere?
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/beagleboard/8LXQYmelDUU
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> aha -f works
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> nice
[12:35] <Maxell> 433.8 uhf aprs?? no here in the Netherlands :P
[12:35] <Maxell> we do crazy stuff
[12:35] <Maxell> Thats why!
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> Direwolf [13:19] <F1VJQ> is there any SIMPLE igate software for Windows?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> https://home.comcast.net/~wb2osz/site/
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[12:45] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar Thanks - I'll read that.... the default here is if I hear APRS and have no software, that'll be the end of it
[12:49] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar let's be clear... when B-64 returns, it will not be Contestia but will be APRS on 434.500 Is that correct?
[12:51] <fsphil> b'ger. it'll want to be contacted its creator
[12:53] <malgar> really no more Contestia?
[12:53] <fsphil> nah, it'll be doing contestia too
[12:56] <malgar> who will be the first? :)
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ: it will have Contestia 64/1000 all the time
[12:58] <N2NXZ> Leo,I have to say,those are some very interesting balloons you have there.They never cease to surprise me!
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> 144.800 outside UK and FR
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> 434.500 APRS inside UK and FR
[12:59] <F1VJQ> now I AM confused... Contestia AND APRS alternate transmissions?
[12:59] <daveake> The Maker is L-O
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> yes
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> Contestia is USB and APRS is FM
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> both on 434.500
[13:06] <F1VJQ> OK never heard both types on same freq before
[13:10] <Maxell> F1VJQ: no I think FM aprs requires a much stronger signal
[13:11] <Maxell> to demodulate and to hear
[13:14] <F1VJQ> maxell I've heard most of Leo's flights... and some flew pretty darn close, so I get big sigs... maybe I missed B-64
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> many people assumed it was QRM
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[13:22] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar that'll be it!! I'm listening on 144.8 at the mo and I have heard that now you mention it
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> and sufficiently advanced modulation looks like noise
[13:24] <jededu> Is there any alternative to using \n in dl-fldigi
[13:24] <fsphil> why would you want to?
[13:24] <malgar> Laurenceb_: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."? :)
[13:25] <jededu> In this BASIC I dont think \n is new line
[13:25] <fsphil> oh basic
[13:25] <jededu> Yes lol
[13:25] <mattbrejza> eg morse
[13:25] <fsphil> just use the appropriate chr() command
[13:25] <jededu> but the CRC works :)
[13:26] <jededu> CHR$(10) ?
[13:26] <fsphil> yea
[13:26] <jededu> Cool
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[13:38] <Maxell> %20%20%20? :P
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[13:41] <Maxell> bye floater
[13:44] <daveake> Leo's record is safe for now
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[13:45] <jededu> I get this error in the parser logtail (field latitude): Coordinate out of range (-90 <= x <= 90)
[13:47] <jededu> I have ,5232.32310, as lat
[13:48] <fsphil> error is pretty much right then :)
[13:48] <fsphil> that won't work unless your payload doc is setup for that coordinate format
[13:52] <jededu> Helps if I set it up properly
[13:52] <jededu> Now alt error
[13:54] <jededu> Success :)
[13:55] <jededu> Its on the Map :)
[13:56] <jededu> Now to test
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[14:01] <Maxell> Intresting... M5PLY Calling UK CQ on 20 meters... Is that even going to work?
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[14:03] <Maxell> The 20 meter skip even goes over me in The Hague so wonder if he will haul in any UK contacts...
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[14:06] <es5nhc> Ground wave, OM :) Maybe his neighbor is also QRV :)
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[14:07] <mfa298> maybe he's got a cloud warmer for an antenna and hoping some others do
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[14:08] <amell> B-64 phone home?
[14:08] <fsphil> I do occasionally hear UK stations on 20m
[14:08] <fsphil> pretty rare though
[14:09] <Maxell> mfa298: my antenna is also setup for NVIS but still *no* single other Dutchie on the 20 meter band. Except for one that lives 7 kilometers north of me...
[14:09] <jededu> http://imgur.com/Cfe78RS&3r60Nwu
[14:10] <fsphil> funky
[14:10] <amell> jededu: nice
[14:10] <amell> jededu: can you post the other side? :)
[14:10] <Floater> Really short skip can happen, or backscatter too. It's like me here in Wisconsin, trying to work Illinois for like 5BWAS Award. Hard but can be done.
[14:10] <F1VJQ> jededu did you mean to have lat/long 100 times too big?
[14:10] <fsphil> it's the annoying ddmm.mmmm format
[14:11] <amell> ah. i clicked on next :)
[14:11] <F1VJQ> fsphil OK aargh!!
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> http://dspace.bracu.ac.bd/bitstream/handle/10361/706/DESIGN;jsessionid=19C94A03B690604FBB00B9A4625C0DEF?sequence=1 Figure 3-5
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> Shift resistor
[14:11] <fsphil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/30/balloon_circumnavigation/
[14:12] <amell> jededu: side profile?
[14:12] <fsphil> was wondering when they'd notice :)
[14:12] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I have DireWolf installed and it works as a receiver on 144.8 but damned if I'll be able to pass on sigs...!
[14:12] <daveake> I suspect someone here was to blame :)
[14:13] Action: daveake looks in general direction of Yorkshire
[14:13] <F1VJQ> I'll keep an ear on there for B-64
[14:13] Action: UpuWork please leave a message after the beep
[14:13] Action: UpuWork *beep*
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ: do you mean it does not send to teh server?
[14:15] <F1VJQ> I don't know if it needs configuring - I get "Note: PTT not configured for channel 0"
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> that's fine, it won't tx on air
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> can you send me your direwolf.conf file and i will edit it for you to leo@leobodnar.com
[14:16] <F1VJQ> I need to read more to find out what happens, and whether it just writes to screen
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> you need to uncomment the lines:
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> IGSERVER asia.aprs2.net
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[14:17] <LeoBodnar> IGLOGIN YOURCALL yourpass
[14:17] <jededu> amell its just mounted on the pins daughter board
[14:17] <luteijn> maybe better to use euro.aprs2.net instead of asia?
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> actually
[14:17] <es5nhc> BTW. I am totally impressed about your balloon distances lately. What is the current record?
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> IGLOGIN F1VJQ 12953
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[14:18] <UpuWork> es5nhc whatever B-64 is at the moment :)
[14:18] <es5nhc> Because of the warm season?
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> this needs to be placed in INTERNET GATEWAY section
[14:19] <es5nhc> Haha, indeed, UpuWork. Have any other HAB's managed to circumnavigate the Earth and still squawk back so far?
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> also
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/30/buzzgasm_screws/
[14:19] <UpuWork> I don't believe so es5nhc
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[14:20] <amell> es5nhc: not amateur ones. There might have been some professional ones in the 60s.
[14:20] <UpuWork> Loon balloons are going around the Southern Hemisphere
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> nih'otoo'ohoe that
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[14:21] <amell> LeoNet - APRS mesh network with floating igate/repeaters
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> Loon has managed >115 days
[14:21] <UpuWork> Give Leo Loons budget :)
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> lol
[14:21] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I sent off the conf file... not very well up on this stuff!!
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> $50HAB
[14:21] <UpuWork> He'd be talking to you from his moon base on Demios
[14:22] <fsphil> he's have the duration record
[14:22] <fsphil> on Venus
[14:22] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar, I assume I'll be listening on 144.800 whilst over Atlantic and 434.500 if over France
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> yep
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> i'll send you the file back in a second
[14:25] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I have two rigs but only one interface cable....it is set up for meteor scatter on 2m normally.... worked Sweden this morning, and Isle of Foula
[14:25] <F1VJQ> in Scotland
[14:27] <lz1dev> fsphil: heh, author of that register article is in spain
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ when you start Direwolf it lists all available audio input sources and the numbers, whit is the number of the one you are using for audio input?
[14:30] <F1VJQ> Conexant AMC Audio is the only one shown in and out
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> number 0 ?
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> ok cool
[14:31] <F1VJQ> yes 0
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ I have sent you back a config file with a minimum required amount of settings for RX only igate
[14:39] <es5nhc> I see. So if you get a reception, this could make news.
[14:39] <es5nhc> Very exciting
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> if you replace your existing one it should just work
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[14:43] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: direwolf is indeed easy
[14:44] <Maxell> How well does it's demodultor preform? I use multimon on my other igate that might be a bit old
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> i am quite impressed but i don't have HW TNC to compare to
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> it is at least as good as MULTIPSK
[14:46] <LeoBodnar> and infinitely better in UI dperatment
[14:46] <LeoBodnar> because there is none
[14:46] <luteijn> Maxell: too bad I can't get it to release ptt quicker. hacked at it a little but even if I skip the entire procedure to wait longer it still just doesn't seem to get to the code to release ptt quick enough.
[14:47] <mfa298> damn I now have too many thing to try and do this evening. Play with direwolf (I should have an available Pi at home), make a Yagi to try and receive Leo's balloons, and clear enough space so I can get to a window to get a yagi pointing west.
[14:49] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar OK thanks - I can leave 144.800 on all night.. I have a 12 ele yagi at 10m agl and I@m about 3km from the Atlantic coast.. near River Gironde.
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> Nice, that would be great
[14:55] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I see [ig ] F1VJQ so that seems to be working!
[14:57] <LeoBodnar> yeah you appeared on http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FF1VJQ so connectivity is there, just need to check if you are sending any aprs packet from RF
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[14:58] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar The Tranceiver is only on RX (green LED when squelch opens) No TX seen on the Bird Thruline RF meter or on (LED RED) - so as expected
[15:00] <LeoBodnar> that's right, do you hear APRS traffic and if so do you see decoded packets in Direwolf window?
[15:00] <luteijn> I think Leo meant that it would be nice if you heard an APRS packet on air and it was correctly relayed to the internet.
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> ah here we go
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> F5ZHN-4>T5SYVP,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2,qAR,F1VJQ:'vS,l #/"4*}73s de Denis
[15:01] <Maxell> luteijn: intresting, direwolf picked up your direct packet but multimon did not.
[15:01] <Maxell> I also noticed the following: my baofeng doesn't switch to rxing fast enough to hear pi1rwk
[15:01] <F1VJQ> yes.. I see decoded packets no problem
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> it's working, so don't try to fix it :D
[15:01] <Maxell> So I never get the confirmation in
[15:01] <luteijn> Maxell: maybe I'm still too loud/soft off-key ?
[15:01] <Maxell> luteijn: might have to get in contact with the OPs
[15:02] <Maxell> luteijn: multimon is old :)
[15:02] <Maxell> I think thats the problem
[15:02] <Maxell> :P
[15:02] <luteijn> Still, if I can improve my signal so multimon also can read it, that probably would be nice..
[15:02] <Maxell> I can have a look here
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> I have never set up Direwolf for digipeating (which needs further configuration changes)
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> or igating from internet to RF
[15:03] <yo9ict> CPU:intel(r) core(tm) i5-3470 @ 3.20ghz Memory:8080MB In-use:34% Display:1920X1080 Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Edition, 64-bit Service Pack 1 (build 7601) Uptime:00:03:41:40 client:ThrashIRC
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.isengard.co.uk/images/JPEGS/Aspergers%20Flyer_F&WHR28-7-14B.jpg
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> epic lulz
[15:04] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar I don't want to be a 24/7 service!! Just happy to be an igate whilst waiting for the B-6* twins to come home!
[15:04] <yo9ict> wtf..sorry for that, just testing a new client :D
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[15:05] <LeoBodnar> yes sure that's what i meant F1VJQ, France is covered with good 24x7 APRS stations
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[15:17] <astrobiologist> afternoon all.,. From CORNWALL!
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[15:18] <UpuWork> greetings Oliver thats beyond the call of duty going to Cornwall just to track a balloon
[15:19] <astrobiologist> please give me some hints
[15:20] <Laurenceb_> slightly purple
[15:20] <astrobiologist> What modes can Matt's android app take? Can it decode aprs and/or contestia?
[15:20] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist Hint #1 is go to the pasty shop at Portreath and buy a big one
[15:21] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist Hint#2 is Ann's pasty shop at Lizard Town
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[15:21] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist Hint 3 The pasty shop at Porthleven
[15:22] <jiffe98> heh, what is a pasty shop?
[15:22] <astrobiologist> F1VJQ: I'm at Malazion but at least the cod at the fish and chip shop is fresh
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[15:22] <F1VJQ> jiffe98 Cornish Pasty... is made from beef and potato and swede and cooked in a pastry shell
[15:23] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist Marazion? Have you been across to the Mount?
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[15:23] <jiffe98> hmm, sounds yummy
[15:24] <F1VJQ> http://www.annspasties.co.uk/
[15:24] <astrobiologist> F1VJQ: going tomorrow. Somehow I think my handheld and cable might take the trip with me...
[15:25] <F1VJQ> jiffe98 they are lovely!! A complete meal and hot from the oven!
[15:26] <astrobiologist> I will buy a selection of Ginsters facsimiles for the conference if only someone will tell me how best to monitor for B64 from here :-)
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[15:27] <F1VJQ> jiffe98 I forgot onion as part of the list
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> Noooooooooooooooooooooooo
[15:27] <SpeedEvil> Never forget!
[15:27] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist Ginsters.... that's the equivalent of a Tesco Value burger in the pasty world!
[15:28] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist what bands and what antennas do you have?
[15:28] <astrobiologist> F1VJQ: I know but it is probably the best I can offer unless there is a decent "Cornish Range" etc near Greenwich
[15:29] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist There are "Cornish pasty" vendors at some mainline stations!
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[15:30] <astrobiologist> I have my Kendwood TH-F7E with me which can scan over just about any band and any mode (including USB). I have a telescopic whip and a rubber duck. The whip is a 1/4 wave at 2m and a 3/8 wave at 70cm
[15:31] <astrobiologist> 144.8 and 434.5 should be no problem and in fact I can monitor both simultaneously (the TH-F7E has dual channels with independent VFOs)
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[15:32] <astrobiologist> are we talking about FM APRS?
[15:32] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist approach from Atlantic 144.800 APRS - once in UK waters 434.500 USB Contestia and FM APRS
[15:33] <F1VJQ> astrobiologist - I haven't a clue if your radio decodes APRS
[15:34] <astrobiologist> I have pocketpacket for iPad and a jerryrigged cable between iPad and the handheld
[15:34] <astrobiologist> I _have_ been able to decode other station's APRS packets
[15:35] <astrobiologist> but I have no way to get these into Habitat - UNLESS Matt's android app can decode Contestia or APRS and pass this to Habitat
[15:35] <F1VJQ> OK well that's all you need... I'm informed that we could see B-64 as early as midnight tonight onwards
[15:35] <astrobiologist> I have a Blackberry port of Matt's app which I was intending to test
[15:36] <F1VJQ> better talk to Matt!!
[15:37] <Maxell> http://dirtypcbs.com/ "These are intended to be dirt cheap, prototype boards. We use them for all our stuff and never have problems, but some people think they suck."
[15:37] <Maxell> lol
[15:38] <astrobiologist> I could take a screenshot from PocketPacket for posterity
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[15:39] <astrobiologist> But if Matt's around I'd love to know if it can handle APRS or Contestia. I will go out to the beach in a mo and fire up the BlackBerry version and ask u all how it shows up on Habitat
[15:39] <mfa298> I'm pretty sure matts app doesn't do APRS or Contessia (at least if it does it's been added very recently)
[15:40] <mfa298> But if your APRS app uploads to the aprs-is network then that can be imported to spacenear.us
[15:42] <astrobiologist> mfa298: It uploads _my_ position to aprs-is but as far as I know it doesn't upload any packets it receives (i.e it doesn't function as an iGate)
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[15:45] <astrobiologist> What deviation is Leo's APRS transmissions set to? +-2.5Khz or +-5Khz?
[15:48] <LeoBodnar> +-3.5kHz
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> so use +-5kHz
[15:50] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: android app doesnt do contestia
[15:50] <mattbrejza> i cant create decoders at the same rate leo creates encoders
[15:50] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar: thanks
[15:50] <mattbrejza> but feel free to add it to the blackberry one yourself ;)
[15:51] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: :-) how about aprs?
[15:51] <mattbrejza> no
[15:51] <mattbrejza> that already exists?
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[15:52] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: I don't think my aprs app (PocketPacket) uploads rx'd packets, only my own position
[15:53] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: so your app seems the only chance I have to upload any aprs positions for B-64 from my current position
[15:53] <mattbrejza> well it wasnt worth my effort to add aprs
[15:54] <mattbrejza> so rtty/turbohab only :)
[15:55] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: thanks anyway, I will grab a screenshot from pocketpacket if I receive any packets then.
[15:55] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: I had been trying to port aprsdroid to BlackBerry too but the guy said he wanted to try it himself :-)
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[16:19] <astrobiologist> I am now testing the BlackBerry port from sunny cornwall
[16:19] <astrobiologist> am I showing up as a chasecar? (M6ODP)
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[16:32] <astrobiologist> my location in Cornwall looks good
[16:33] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: what do the echo and alerts tab do in the decoder window?
[16:36] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza: ah I plugged in a splitter cable and can now listen to the audio myself with "echo" set on, so that's obvious enough. what do "alerts" do?
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[16:42] <Boelle_DK> Maxell: there are cheaper fab house than that one
[16:42] <Boelle_DK> for 10 pcs of 5*5cm i only give 9.9$
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[16:44] <Boelle_DK> http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418001.html
[16:44] <Boelle_DK> also hong kong based
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[16:47] <astrobiologist> I'm completing the test now. the port of the android app to blackberry does seem successful -I do appear as a chase car, and in the correct place on the map. I can see the waterfall in the app, and listen in to the echo'd static (since there is no balloon to listen to today :-)
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[16:48] <Laurenceb_> yet....
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[16:49] <astrobiologist> what is the url for Craag's version of the habitat tracker please?
[16:49] <craag_philcrump> astrobiologist: http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/
[16:50] <craag_philcrump> It's got a bit of a dateline issue atm, I looked into it today and I have to change the way it stores and updates the tracks to fix it - so probably won't happen soon.
[16:53] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: doesn't leaflet support wrapping?
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[16:53] <lz1dev> maybe there's an options or something
[16:53] <lz1dev> seem odd that it doesnt
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[16:53] <craag_philcrump> That's what I thought - went hunting - couldn't find anything
[16:54] <craag_philcrump> I am using worldCopyJump, but removing it doesn't make a difference.
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[16:57] <astrobiologist> how does it display chase cars?
[16:57] <craag_philcrump> workaround was to break the polyline at the dateline, so I wouldn't get the path across the middle, but I had 1m30s left of my lunch break ;)
[16:57] <craag_philcrump> astrobiologist: As a car icon, same as snus
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[16:58] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: https://github.com/Leaflet/Leaflet/issues/82
[16:59] <lz1dev> ahh this is difficult to code around
[16:59] <lz1dev> you'll have to duplicate each point which is <0 longitude
[16:59] <craag_philcrump> yep
[16:59] <craag_philcrump> fun
[17:00] <craag_philcrump> gtg
[17:00] <lz1dev> actually all points
[17:00] <lz1dev> tbh
[17:00] <astrobiologist> craag_philcrump: it doesn't seem to be showing my current location as a chasecar
[17:00] <lz1dev> if you want left side, you'll have to do it for >0 longitude
[17:00] <craag_philcrump> astrobiologist: m6odp_chase...
[17:02] <astrobiologist> craag_philcrump: apologies, I spoke too hastily. I just have a v slow 3G connection here
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[17:05] <astrobiologist> OK, it all basically reports, what we don't know is whether the blackberry port would successfully upload to spacenear.us. I will test it next when I have a balloon going overhead transmitting rtty or turbohab :-)
[17:06] <lz1dev> craag_philcrump: apperantly leaflet have fix, but its not deployed due to performance issues
[17:07] <lz1dev> the proposal is dated Jan 18 and is active to date, but not merged
[17:07] <lz1dev> wow
[17:08] <craag_philcrump> haha nice
[17:08] Action: craag_philcrump -> home
[17:09] <lz1dev> apperantly the perfomance is not the same as the original
[17:09] <lz1dev> who would've guessed
[17:10] <lz1dev> i guess you could just fetch the branch and use it
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[17:14] <astrobiologist> bye for now
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[17:46] <es5nhc> Good luck all!
[17:55] <DL7AD> B-64 is gonna come tomorrow back to europe. http://www.dl7ad.de/europe.html
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[17:57] <jcoxon> DL7AD, will be a big day
[17:57] <jcoxon> songs will be sung about it
[17:57] <eroomde> cave paintings will depict it to future civilsations
[17:57] <DL7AD> its like apollo 11 coming back to earth
[17:58] Action: jcoxon never thought he'd see it in his lifetime
[17:58] <jcoxon> :-p
[17:58] <jcoxon> that said it ain't here yet
[17:59] <jcoxon> its got to cross the north atlantic
[17:59] <eroomde> jetsream is getting grumpy
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[17:59] <cipher0> does Qualatex make high altitude balloons?
[18:00] <DL7AD> no
[18:00] <mfa298> at least it's crossing the atlantic in the more normal direction.
[18:01] <eroomde> cipher0: just medium-altitude party balloons
[18:01] <eroomde> or rather, party balloons that will reach medium altitude with a sufficiently small payload
[18:01] <cipher0> I found one 4 foot qualatex balloon in a local shop and it looked very much like one, and they said they can bring more each week, so since weather balloons are so hard to find here or import, I thought I might be in luck...
[18:01] <cipher0> that was the last shop I hadn't checked
[18:01] <fsphil> welcome home station: http://i.imgur.com/UNZWJgy.jpg
[18:02] <fsphil> I'd need to dust my keyboard
[18:03] <jcoxon> excellent
[18:04] <cipher0> Oh, and the shop keeper said they bring new stuff from US each week from few balloon companies and said I should give him a list of companies and their balloons and hell say if they can bring one for me in just a week/ Any companies youll like to mention?
[18:05] <cipher0> he refused to do it the other way: tell me what companies they work with and let me check if they have weather balloons, for some reason :/
[18:07] <cipher0> Got lucky, the other shops were were either clueless or very rude, accusing me of being a competitor trying to make money. Hobbies are very limited in this country...
[18:09] <eroomde> have you met arko yet?
[18:10] <cipher0> Arko is armenian, but he doesnt live in Armenia
[18:10] <cipher0> (like most armenians)
[18:11] <eroomde> yes i know
[18:11] <eroomde> just wondering if youd e-met
[18:11] <eroomde> i am not really on irc much these days
[18:12] <cipher0> yeah, weve talked
[18:13] <cipher0> So any list of US based companies I can give to the balloon shop owner?
[18:14] <eroomde> well, in the uk there is steve
[18:14] <eroomde> RocketBoy on irc
[18:14] <eroomde> he supplies most of us
[18:14] <eroomde> in europe too
[18:14] <eroomde> drop him an email
[18:14] <eroomde> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
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[18:15] <hackvana> cm13g09: There?
[18:18] <Reb-SM0ULC> evening!
[18:19] <cipher0> I think I need US companies because they said they import from US, but thanks ill add it to the list
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[18:46] <jededu> Ping upu
[18:49] <Upu> hi there
[18:50] <jededu> Can you send out GPS Modules tomorrow
[18:52] <jededu> Upu pm
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[19:12] <LeoBodnar> F1VJQ-IGate: it's Vertical polarisation, i can't remember if you've asked
[19:13] <F1VJQ-IGate> LeoBodnar Yes, I can't do much about that! The 70cm beam works fine even on horizontal out to limit of blue circle.
[19:14] <F1VJQ-IGate> I assume that the 2m beam will capture sigs, perhaps not as good as vertical but hey ho!
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[19:17] <LeoBodnar> we can all but hope
[19:17] <F1VJQ-IGate> horizontal beam has vertical components too...
[19:22] <F1VJQ-IGate> Back later... going for a short walk in coller evening air
[19:22] <F1VJQ-IGate> cooler
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[19:52] <maxmed> evening all, does anyone know if strcpy supported on arduino?
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[20:00] <mfa298> try it and see if it does. Although I'd be surprised if it didn't
[20:00] <mfa298> however strncpy would be a safer function to use.
[20:00] <craag_philcrump> you might have to include string.h
[20:01] <mfa298> for pretty much any str* function look to see if there's a strn* function to use instead
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[20:07] <qyx_> btw i did some testing of quectel L70 gps module during weekend
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[20:07] <qyx_> apparently it has the 18Km limit, but might be suitable for floaters
[20:08] <qyx_> it costs around ~8e and can be safely turned off to save power, hot start ranges from 1-10 sec
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[20:09] <qyx_> also it has some other power saving modes
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[20:19] <cipherzero> is there a danger of helium/hydrogen tank exploding from high temperature and direct sunlight (while filling the balloon outdoors)?
[20:19] <thasti> usually they are made for much more pressure than what they are filled with, but avoiding direct exposure to sunlight for extended time periods might be useful
[20:20] <mattbrejza> tanks are often kept outside anyway for long periods
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[20:20] <mattbrejza> so i very much doubt it
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[20:20] <thasti> it's useful to have a pavillon for the filling procedure anyways (protecting from things falling down, sun, etc)
[20:20] <fsphil> all the tanks at our local depot are outside, and in the sun -- for those days we get sun
[20:21] <cipherzero> OK
[20:21] <thasti> ^^ well it's no different here
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[20:23] <cipherzero> so when transporting the tank in a car, its good idea to keep the back windows open, even if it'll get get sunlight exposure?
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[20:24] <mattbrejza> yea, if theres a leak you dont want it collecting in the car
[20:24] <mattbrejza> humans dont work very well breathing H2 or He
[20:24] <cipherzero> thats the reason
[20:24] <cipherzero> but also dont want sunlight heat doing damage too
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[20:25] <mfa298> I'd have thought sunlight will probably warm the cylinder up about the same whether the windows are open or closed
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[20:26] Nick change: priyesh -> priyesh_
[20:26] <myself> humans are fine breathing either, as long as oxygen is still available at the appropriate partial pressure
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[20:26] <cipherzero> windows in all cars here are darkened
[20:27] <cipherzero> not the same in your country?
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[20:27] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt worry about the sunlight thing
[20:27] <myself> airgas won't load a tank into a car, here. they'll load it into your pickup truck, sure. But if you're gonna transport the thing in your car, they'll hand it to you and let you assume the liability yourself. ;)
[20:27] <mattbrejza> BOC (and others) have a cylinder handling guide which would be worth to read
[20:27] <mattbrejza> rather than strangers giving advic eover the intenret
[20:28] <myself> personally I'm never too concerned, since I'm going less than a mile from where I pick up the cylinder, but if traveling farther I'd probably try to get a truck-owning friend to do it for me.
[20:28] <cipherzero> I'll have a look
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[20:29] <cipherzero> http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/sheq/gas-safety/dispense-gas-safety/handling-of-cylinders/handling-of-cylinders.html
[20:29] <myself> I think while you're actively filling a balloon, there'll be so much temperature drop from that process, I couldn't imagine sunlight on the tank being able to keep up, much less push things into dangerous territory.
[20:30] <mattbrejza> yea that document says nothing about temperature
[20:30] <mattbrejza> the pressure increase from a few 10C isnt much anyway
[20:31] <cipherzero> Yeah, nothing about temperature or sunlight exposure
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[20:35] <cipherzero> BTW, how much does it cost to fill a 1.6m hydrogen cylinder in your country?
[20:35] <cipherzero> its like $100 here, compared to $620 for helium
[20:36] <arko> wow
[20:36] <mattbrejza> not sure really, the cylinder hire would probably be a significant proportion
[20:36] <arko> helium's that expensive in armenia?
[20:36] <cipherzero> yeah
[20:36] <arko> wow
[20:36] <cipherzero> checked everywhere
[20:36] <cipherzero> then again, all the sellers are in the balloon business
[20:36] <arko> how do you have birthday events!?
[20:36] <arko> :P
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[20:36] <cipherzero> methane filled mostly
[20:37] <arko> oh wow
[20:37] <cipherzero> and I think like 90% of the population are smokers :p
[20:37] <arko> that makes sense
[20:37] <fsphil> euu
[20:38] <qyx_> how much is 1.6m cylinder in m^3?
[20:38] <cipherzero> dunno
[20:38] <cipherzero> they give you free tank but keep $100 before you return it.
[20:39] <cipherzero> OK, I lied a little http://www.armradio.am/en/2014/01/08/armenia-third-in-the-world-with-highest-smoking-rates-among-men-in-2012/
[20:39] <qyx_> hm, 9.1m^3 of He for 260e
[20:40] <fsphil> it's getting better here
[20:40] <LazyLeopard> Erf. Somewhere along the recent run of major system rebuilding I seem to have lost dl-fldigi's ability to talk nicely to my FT817...
[20:40] <arko> 51.5 percent wow
[20:40] <qyx_> 8.9m^3 of H2 for 60e
[20:40] <qyx_> quite a difference
[20:40] <cipherzero> I think its more, seeing almost every male from 14 and up smoke
[20:40] <fsphil> :/
[20:41] <fsphil> it's a vile thing, especially seeing kids do it
[20:41] <arko> damn man thats terrible
[20:41] <cipherzero> anyway...
[20:41] <fsphil> yes ot :)
[20:42] <cipherzero> Is the cost of Hydrogen fine at least?
[20:42] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/125750_trj001.gif
[20:42] <Laurenceb__> how big is your yagi ? :P
[20:42] <fsphil> nowhere near me
[20:42] <fsphil> stupid weather :)
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[20:44] <gonzo__> wonder what it will do later tomorrow?
[20:44] <gonzo__> will it come along the cahnnel?
[20:44] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/125785_trj001.gif
[20:44] <Laurenceb__> those other trajectories curve towards spain
[20:44] <F1VJQ-IGate> I have a 12 ele pointing out to Bay of Biscay and listening 144.800
[20:45] <cipherzero> Oh and does anyone know a good rope length between the balloon and parachute and parachute and the payload?
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[20:46] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/125843_trj001.gif
[20:47] <Laurenceb__> most of those are in range of portugal or the azores
[20:47] <thasti> cipherzero: make it long, it reduces swinging and (if you want to recover) the payload can come down to ground if the parachute is hanging in a high tree
[20:47] <cipherzero> Ok, thanks. how long though? Or doesnt matter?
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[20:48] <thasti> well, our last ballon payload landed in a tree ~25m high, and our rope was only 2-3 meter - a bit too short ;)
[20:48] <daveake> I do 5m top and 10m bottom
[20:48] <cipherzero> wow
[20:48] <cipherzero> must add some 100 grams to the total weight?
[20:48] <daveake> less
[20:49] <cipherzero> what kind of ropes do you use?
[20:49] <thasti> depending on the mass of your experiment, thin rope (or even fishing line, 2 .. 4 lines) should suffice
[20:50] <daveake> see http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Stuff.html
[20:50] <cipherzero> Hm, i also use nylon.
[20:50] <cipherzero> *used
[20:51] <cipherzero> about 4mm though
[20:51] <daveake> too thick
[20:51] <cipherzero> OK
[20:52] <daveake> It's best to use thinner stuff (e.g. those on Steve's page above) as you want the lot to disintegrate should an aircraft hit it
[20:52] <cipherzero> OK
[20:52] <fsphil> it's good and strong anyway
[20:52] <fsphil> having tried to get some of it out of a tree
[20:52] <cipherzero> nylon?
[20:52] <daveake> lol indeed
[20:53] <cipherzero> or the specific brand you linked?
[20:54] <daveake> Upu and I fought a parachute stuck at the top of a tall tree, with 1.5mm nylon
[20:54] <daveake> We lost
[20:54] <daveake> Just braided 1.5mm you'll be fine
[20:54] <Upu> yeah nearly severed a tendon
[20:55] <Upu> finger didn't work properly for about 2 weeks
[20:55] <fsphil> yea, it's easy to burn yourself on it
[20:55] <fsphil> use gloves
[20:55] <cipherzero> ouch
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[20:55] <cipherzero> burn?
[20:56] <fsphil> yea from friction
[20:56] <daveake> if it's windy and the balloon pulls the line through your bare hands, it'll burn
[20:56] <daveake> and cut
[20:57] <daveake> not good
[20:57] <fsphil> I've got a scar from something similar
[20:57] <cipherzero> sorry, my english. i get what you mean.
[20:57] <daveake> Cheap coated gloves (for grip) are great
[21:00] <cipherzero> Ive heard something about using gloves when filling weather balloons. Im not going to do that myself, got a balloon guy, but whats the reason for that, just curious?
[21:00] <thasti> fat and sweat is poison for balloon envelopes
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[21:01] <thasti> especially when it gets very cold at high altitudes, when it freezes i guess
[21:01] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza_
[21:01] <cipherzero> Oh. So regular medical gloves will do?
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[21:02] <daveake> for filling yes
[21:02] <cipherzero> Because the balloon guy doesnt wear anything when filling party balloons
[21:02] <daveake> for releasing, if it's windy, something stronger
[21:02] <thasti> at least for storage it's advised not to touch the balloon before storing it, i guess for the same reason
[21:02] <fsphil> I've never bothered with gloves to handle the balloon
[21:02] <myself> he's also not expecting party balloons to burst at a predictable altitude after surviving thermal changes..
[21:02] <fsphil> just make sure the surface I set it on is clean
[21:03] <cipherzero> oh
[21:03] <fsphil> I probably should -- but I don't believe it's ever caused a problem
[21:03] <fsphil> difficult to say though!
[21:03] <daveake> indeed
[21:04] <daveake> I don't bother for filling as the only part I'm touching is the neck
[21:04] <daveake> But if anyone else wants to stop the balloon bouncing around, they're wearing gloves
[21:04] <cipherzero> gotcha
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[21:05] <cipherzero> Oh, yeah, I also forgot, the rope goes from the payload through the parachute's spill hole to the balloon? Or is it a separate rope attached to the top of the parachute from the bottom of the balloon?
[21:05] Nick change: mattbrejza_ -> mattbrejza
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[21:10] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: 434 MHz party balloon goes around the world http://t.co/5ZpWQSgDua #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
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[21:12] <jarod> cool
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[21:13] <IRC_ukhas> evening Ll
[21:14] <IRC_ukhas> all
[21:14] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[21:14] <astrobiologist> Is there a predicted plot downloadable anywhere for B64?
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[21:15] <astrobiologist> Is it going to travel over Cornwall still and if so is it N>S or S>N?
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/125843_trj001.gif
[21:16] <mattbrejza> so 20-24hrs to go
[21:16] <mattbrejza> do you have a hysplit got b63?
[21:17] <Laurenceb__> not me
[21:17] <mattbrejza> oh right, the /mt :P
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[21:19] <DL7AD> http://www.dl7ad.de/europe.html
[21:19] <lz1dev> tomorrow morning is the earliest to hit the UK
[21:20] <DL7AD> including digipeaters and current prediction
[21:21] <mattbrejza> i shall turn the radio from aprs to contestia tomorrow mornign then
[21:21] <Laurenceb__> ah nice
[21:21] <eroomde> contestia?
[21:21] <eroomde> i barely know er
[21:21] <lz1dev> when i say morning 7am UTC
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[21:21] <cyclops> hi guys!
[21:22] <Laurenceb__> yeah looks like
[21:22] <Laurenceb__> very useful site
[21:22] <lz1dev> there is a small chance that b63 will loop a few times in mid atlantic ocean and turn to spain
[21:22] <lz1dev> very slim chance
[21:22] <cyclops> im doing another launch this year
[21:22] <cyclops> in Spain
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[21:35] <astrobiologist> sprry, lost the 3G connection there for a moment
[21:36] <Laurenceb__> are you camping out awaiting a signal?
[21:36] <astrobiologist> that NOAA prediction - if those times are all Zulu, then it looks like B64 will fly along the South Coast
[21:36] <astrobiologist> Laurenceb_ : not quite, self catering with parents and my nipper!
[21:37] <astrobiologist> None of the predictions look that close to the coast, so the switch from 144.8 to 434.5 might never happen?
[21:38] <astrobiologist> Can Leo tell us where the geofence kicks in exactly?
[21:38] <lz1dev> 30 W
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[21:39] <astrobiologist> 30W, O.K, in which case it will probably be on 434.5 well before it comes close to cornwall
[21:39] <astrobiologist> and closest approach is looking like noon tomorrow zulu
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[21:39] <oh2ftg> Just gona lurk, don't mind me
[21:40] <astrobiologist> and it will proceed East to Steve G6UIM only a little later, who has a much better rig
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[21:41] <astrobiologist> That's assuming that the predictions not vary overnight
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[21:42] <astrobiologist> A lot of those predictions take it much further south. so un
[21:43] <astrobiologist> ss we have a porbeagle tagged with an android smartphone or something, it might be one for the french hams
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[21:44] <F1VJQ-IGate> I'll be beamed out into Biscay all night on 144.800
[21:45] <F1VJQ-IGate> Ill switch radios tomorrow to igate 434.500
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[21:47] <astrobiologist> F1VJQ-IGate: What is your QTH.
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[21:48] <F1VJQ-IGate> north of Bordeaux near River Gironde estuary 3km inland
[21:48] <F1VJQ-IGate> 434.500 very quiet at the mo!!!
[21:49] <cm13g09> hackvana: apologies - been out
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[21:55] <astrobiologist> 30 W? Really? That's way out to sea
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[21:57] <F1VJQ-IGate> two time zones!
[21:58] <mikestir> it's contestia 32/1000 right?
[21:58] <mikestir> oh 64/1000 I see it says in the payload details in fldigi
[21:58] Action: mikestir goes back to sleep
[21:59] <mikestir> if it comes this way fsphil will get it first anyway
[21:59] <cm13g09> craag_philcrump: ping
[22:00] <craag_philcrump> cm13g09:
[22:00] <cm13g09> craag_philcrump: you going to be at pub tomorrow?
[22:00] <IRC_ukhas> sorry, lost the 3G again
[22:00] <craag_philcrump> cm13g09: Yes
[22:01] <cm13g09> ok, will chat to you then
[22:02] <IRC_ukhas> Why 30 W? because it is 2 hours from zulu? but I thought the geofence was set to uk territorial waters?
[22:02] <amell> 434.500 silent still?
[22:03] <mikestir> is here
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[22:03] <craag_philcrump> amell: Expected til tomorrow midday I think?
[22:03] <amell> The excitement is building? :)
[22:03] <mikestir> I thought it was from 6am earliest?
[22:03] <mikestir> has there been a revised hysplit?
[22:03] <amell> i thought it was from midnight tonight.
[22:04] <craag_philcrump> I only saw the ones this morning
[22:04] <amell> on the off chance it comes in at brittany
[22:04] <fsphil> mikestir: all the predictions have it heading south of here
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[22:05] <mikestir> yeah I think the most northerly was going back over the midlands
[22:05] <mikestir> it would be nice if it overflew leo's again :)
[22:05] <fsphil> it'll probably be picked up on aprs from the south irish coast first
[22:05] <fsphil> or france
[22:06] <arko> is there an eta?
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[22:07] <IRC_ukhas> argh again!
[22:07] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[22:08] <astrobiologist> the 3G went again
[22:08] <astrobiologist> could someone just explain about the 30W thing by email because just as someone is about to explain it, mumpbi
[22:08] <mfa298> good to see that DireWolf conforms to the usual standards of HAM software (even if there is no UI)
[22:08] <mikestir> mfa298: is it written entirely in a header file?
[22:09] <astrobiologist> , the connection goes. It's like.... geofencis interuptus
[22:09] <mfa298> the useful bits of the documentation are on Page 6 of the PDF for how to install on linux
[22:09] <mfa298> and of course it's packaged as a .zip because obviously there's not a better format to use for linux
[22:09] <astrobiologist> (and I have no idea what a mumpbi is)
[22:10] <amell> Why is ham software generally shit and looks like it was written in the early 80s?
[22:10] <qyx_> huh? zip for linux?
[22:10] <mikestir> because it is generally shit and was written by people that once used a computer in the early 80s
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[22:11] <mfa298> and make install has the following type of thing as rules to run
[22:11] <amell> they need to get their shit together. I dont appreciate having to downgrade stuff to run stuff.
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[22:11] <mfa298> sudo install direwolf /usr/local/bin^M
[22:12] <mikestir> linux is a dirty word in ham circles I think. There's an article in this month's radcom about using trunked pmr radios on the ham bands and he clearly did all the work on linux, but not once does he mention that
[22:12] <Laurenceb__> lol
[22:12] <Laurenceb__> its too pro for them
[22:12] <F1VJQ-IGate> mfa298 installed Windows version today as igate.. Leo edited the config file for me, and I had igate up and running in minutes... easy!!
[22:12] <Laurenceb__> ancient DOS junk ftw
[22:13] <fsphil> rarely used digital mode in fldigi
[22:13] <craag_philcrump> F1VJQ-IGate: But how long did it take you to install and set up windows? :P
[22:13] <fsphil> ignore me
[22:13] <mfa298> I'm trying it on a Pi, grabbed out my old handy (single band more like a brick) to provide audio
[22:13] <mikestir> aprx seemed easy enough to set up on linux
[22:13] <fsphil> aprx is lovely
[22:13] <craag_philcrump> aprx + soundmodem is nice
[22:14] <F1VJQ-IGate> craag_philcrump - ready installed on laptop. zero
[22:14] <fsphil> I do wish they'd include soundmodem
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[22:14] <fsphil> just have aprx read from the soundcard
[22:14] <mikestir> yeah I'm not convinced soundmodem works all that well
[22:14] <fsphil> a pain to configure too
[22:14] <craag_philcrump> it is a pita to get the levels right
[22:15] <craag_philcrump> especially when you're headless
[22:15] <craag_philcrump> s/you're/your system is/
[22:15] <mikestir> my igate is on a discone in the loft and the rx is a scanner, but it seems much much worse than what I get through the X30/706
[22:15] <mfa298> hrrmm seems like Direwolf needs and X display to run
[22:16] <fsphil> hah
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[22:16] <fsphil> major flaw
[22:16] <mikestir> just the name "direwolf" doesn't inspire confidence
[22:17] <fsphil> got fan
[22:17] <mfa298> or at least the script it sticks in your home directory want's an x display so it can run an xterm type program to run it in (after having a sleep 30 at the top of the script in case your computer had just rebooted)
[22:17] <mikestir> so since I re-enabled my IPv6 tunnel google is blocking me from logging in to my calendar from lightning, apparently with no way of saying "yep, that's ok"
[22:17] <mikestir> anyone else noticed this?
[22:17] <F1VJQ-IGate> I already have radio interface so Direwolf didn''t need any sound or level setting
[22:18] <F1VJQ-IGate> it worked straight out of the box
[22:19] <amell> wondering if theres something like direwolf for the mac
[22:20] <Laurenceb__> sounds dire
[22:20] <F1VJQ-IGate> does the job without any hassle here
[22:22] <amell> oh looks like YAAC is available for mac
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[22:24] <amell> B-63 has arrived!
[22:25] <amell> sorry, just kidding.
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[22:25] <astrobiologist> what does direwolf do exactly?
[22:25] <astrobiologist> 2E0RDJ will listen out for B64 too
[22:26] <F1VJQ-IGate> translates packets and passes them on to a server
[22:26] <F1VJQ-IGate> APRS
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[22:27] <astrobiologist> PocketPacket is available for Mac and iOS, but it DOESN'T IGate. It would translate the raw packets though. They would display but not be passed to anything, So about 50% useful
[22:30] <F1VJQ-IGate> Getting late now, so time I hit the hay... back in the morning..73
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[22:33] <mfa298> amell: the source for direwolf is available so it might be possible to make it work on a mac. Especially if you can use the same audio libraries as linux
[22:35] <astrobiologist> I will turn in soon but will leave pocketpacket running on 434.5, just in case b64 turns up a bit sooner.
[22:36] <amell> never before, in the field of human endeavour, have so many hams listened for the same thing.
[22:37] <astrobiologist> if it looks like it will turnup
[22:37] <astrobiologist> turn up way early then please give me a bell on my mobile, 07908 783367
[22:37] <amell> when it does turn up, there will be much rejoicing through the land.
[22:38] <astrobiologist> possinly
[22:38] <astrobiologist> loss
[22:38] <fsphil> I'm heading out tomorrow so I'll probably miss it
[22:38] <fsphil> unless I pack the car with a radio and laptop....
[22:38] <amell> fsphil: what?!? good job were not relying on you then!
[22:38] <mikestir> I'll take the scanner with me to work
[22:38] <astrobiologist> unless it goes to the Canary Isles, I was going to say
[22:40] <fsphil> my home station is on the B-band so it'll catch it without me here
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[22:55] Action: LazyLeopard considers shooting hamlib...
[22:55] <LazyLeopard> ...but it seems to be dead already.
[22:56] <LazyLeopard> ...or at least it's given up talking to my FT817. :/
[22:58] <mfa298> I've never had much joy with hamlib. I've tended to use rigcat instead as that has worked
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[22:59] <mikestir> seems to work ok with my icom stuff, but it's quite bad at controlling the uniden scanner that runs my igate
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[22:59] <LazyLeopard> Time to give up on thoughts of leaving anything trying to track overnight. Rigcat wouldn't talk, either.
[22:59] <LazyLeopard> 'rigcat_init: failed serial port test' was its favourite response.
[22:59] <amell> why cant you just leave it on 434.LEO?
[23:00] <LazyLeopard> I guess...
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[23:01] Action: SpeedEvil just found out about B64s signals from greenland.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Looking promising
[23:02] <LazyLeopard> ...but that only works when Leo's working his frequency stability magic.
[23:02] <amell> but he is...
[23:02] <amell> if youre really lucky you might hear two pips
[23:02] <amell> like the time i heard two Bs at once.
[23:03] <mikestir> there was one time you could decode two Bs simultaneously on a standard SSB rx
[23:03] <amell> well, one B was in a hedge about 10 miles from me.
[23:03] <amell> i should have gone and B-napped it.
[23:04] <LazyLeopard> ...and it's not much use when the payload's someone else's, so I need to beat sense back into the system sometime.
[23:05] <LazyLeopard> Irritating thing is it was working fine last time I did any tracking, so it's been killed by some update in the last two or three months...
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[23:06] <LazyLeopard> ...but of course there've been a fair few.
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[23:06] <LazyLeopard> ...and going backwards is not a practical option.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> I fear somethings wrong with Leo.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> There is no B67 in the air
[23:07] <amell> Yes, hes letting it get to his head, all this adulation.
[23:07] <mikestir> I suppose his work here is done
[23:07] <mikestir> until the earth starts spinning the other way
[23:07] <arko> i would be on an island drinking martini's if i were him
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Well - a very obvious next step is to put a APRS reciever in each payload
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> and configure them to listen for each other
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> and relay
[23:08] <arko> at least while they go around the world
[23:08] <amell> and a camera&
[23:08] <mfa298> If you're using a USB to Serial converter I'd look at that first. I've had lots of issues with cheap ones and various bits of software
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[23:08] <mikestir> windows 7 won't talk to fake pl2303 converters
[23:08] <mikestir> linux is fine though
[23:09] <LazyLeopard> The hardware is hardware I was using just fine three months ago.
[23:09] <LazyLeopard> Only software has changed.
[23:09] <mfa298> I've had some issues with Pl2303 adapters on linux as well although generally better than windows
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> Even at 'only' 13km, you still get a 800km or so balloon-balloon range
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> amell: camera has issues
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> yeah ive had pl2303 hell :P
[23:10] <mfa298> My TS-2000 is connected via a brainboxes USB - Serial and never had an issue.
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[23:10] <mfa298> cost about x10 the price of the pl2303's though
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[23:10] <mikestir> on linux you can address most ftdi cables by a unique ID which is very useful
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[23:12] Action: SpeedEvil wishes USB had mandated individual serial number
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[23:12] <LazyLeopard> The rig's CAT cable has an FTDI USB-serial chip in it.
[23:12] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/128609_trj001.gif
[23:12] <Laurenceb__> holy shit
[23:13] <Laurenceb__> 100% success
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> If france counts.
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:13] <arko> of course it counts!
[23:13] <mikestir> channel islands
[23:13] <mikestir> they definitely count
[23:13] <arko> its all about longitude
[23:14] <amell> the longitude of silverstone
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> And yeah - this one hasn't cheated and gone round the pole
[23:14] <Laurenceb__> in range midday tomorrow
[23:14] <Laurenceb__> maybe
[23:14] <Laurenceb__> or today i should say
[23:16] <amell> The Bs need to pass 1.01 degrees W to be a circumnavigation
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[23:16] Action: Laurenceb__ zzz
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[23:25] <mfa298> for a real circumnavigation don't they also need to have gone into the southern hemisphere
[23:25] Action: mfa298 realises that might be asking a bit much for a free floating balloon
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> Another reasonable criteria would be travelled distance > earth circumference as well as crossing every degree
[23:28] <mattbrejza> there is a definition by the world record people that says something along the lines of placing a circle of radius R over each pole, and you cant go inside the circles
[23:28] <mattbrejza> but you can choose how the circle sits over the pole
[23:29] <mattbrejza> and you might be able to pick a few points along the route and use the great circle distance between them
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[23:31] <SpeedEvil> The hysplits from australia looked _very_ promising for a rapid circunavigation at that latitude
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> longitude
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> err
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> no
[23:31] Action: SpeedEvil is not awak
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 31 2014