highaltitude.log.20140726

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[05:02] <saadzmirza> Hello aadamson
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[06:27] <arko> still no b-66 or b-63
[06:27] <arko> :|
[06:28] <jaymzx> C'mon B63!
[06:29] <arko> that tower in southern california sure is waiting for b66
[06:31] <jaymzx> What's up with the tower icons on the map? How are they special?
[06:31] <arko> those are dl-fldigi stations
[06:33] <jaymzx> Interesting. Is it a PSK digi?
[06:38] <jaymzx> Old news I'm sure, but NSL has a pretty good writeup on their ballooning adventure. http://wiki.032.la/habex2
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[07:15] <G0HDI> Morning all..Anything going down....Or should I say up, today lol..
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[07:18] <onemek> Hi guys
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[07:23] <G0HDI> Hi!
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[07:25] <onemek> Guys, I understand weather balloons are measured in grams, but where Im at they are measured by their diameter for some reason. Any ideas how to (roughly) find out how many grams an X diameter balloon is so I'll know what size balloon I need for my X gram payload?
[07:25] <onemek> Thanks!
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[07:30] <OZ1SKY_5B> GL to the german team on there two launches today
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[07:33] <jededu> onemek try this http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
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[07:33] <onemek> niiice
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[07:44] <OZ1SKY_5B> looks like DL1SGP is on his way to the launch site
[07:45] <OZ1SKY_5B> on aprs
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[07:53] <OZ1SKY_5B> fsphil Hi, did you get any more work done on your sdtv?
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[08:08] <amell> wow. B-64 going a bit further north than i had expected.
[08:09] <amell> also thought B-63 would have reappeared by now.
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[08:28] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL0CN-11 has launched
[08:34] <OZ1SKY_5B> i gess they didnt fill in a flight plan, since its not on the tracker
[08:36] <G0HDI> How do you know it's launched?
[08:36] <OZ1SKY_5B> i see it on aprs
[08:36] <G0HDI> Oh!
[08:36] <OZ1SKY_5B> 5610m now
[08:37] <OZ1SKY_5B> should also be a voice beacon on 145.200
[08:38] <G0HDI> Trying to find it on APRS. Roughly where abouts, presumably in Germany?
[08:38] <OZ1SKY_5B> search for DL0CN-11 or look up the city "celle" north east of hannover
[08:39] <G0HDI> Ok
[08:39] <G0HDI> DC0CN-11
[08:39] <OZ1SKY_5B> or this http://da.aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=10&call=a%2FDL0CN-11&others=1&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[08:39] <OZ1SKY_5B> abit easyer
[08:41] <G0HDI> Thanks! I got him
[08:41] <OZ1SKY_5B> should be two launches from that area today
[08:41] <G0HDI> Ok
[08:45] <G0HDI> Looks like Easterly wind over there, so maybe chance of heading UK way. Is it only aprs?. If so will switch off before hitting our airspace I guess
[08:45] <OZ1SKY_5B> its not planned to float, so we´ll see
[08:45] <OZ1SKY_5B> and yes only aprs and voice beacon
[08:46] <G0HDI> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=1.21,49.08,743
[08:46] <G0HDI> Ok
[08:47] <OZ1SKY_5B> at what hight is that?
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[08:50] <G0HDI> ?. I've lost the tool bar for it lol
[08:50] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok no problem .-)
[08:51] <OZ1SKY_5B> i see the chace car is due west, so i think your right anyway :-)
[08:52] <OZ1SKY_5B> 4m/s is not much lift
[08:54] <G0HDI> Right click where it says Earth gets info. Might need a few tries though, but I got it eventually
[08:55] <OZ1SKY_5B> yes got it
[08:56] <OZ1SKY_5B> on left click though
[08:56] <G0HDI> Cool. Your right, left click. Yopu understand the height?
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[08:59] <OZ1SKY_5B> looks like 1000hpa is about 111m
[09:00] <G0HDI> Neat tool though isn't it
[09:00] <OZ1SKY_5B> sure is
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[09:14] <OZ1SKY_5B> still 04.0m/s wonder if that is working right
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[09:15] <OZ1SKY_5B> ah my bad, 03.2m/s now
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[09:19] <G0HDI> +02.8m/s 48461ft 15mph
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[09:19] <OZ1SKY_5B> yes ca 15000m
[09:20] <OZ1SKY_5B> why do you get a read out in ft?
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[09:21] <G0HDI> Don't know. Maybe you have choice in set up options?. This is default for me
[09:22] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok, i havent changed anything here. maybe it uses the setup in windows or browser
[09:22] <G0HDI> The truth is out there lol
[09:22] <OZ1SKY_5B> yeah :-)
[09:23] <LeoBodnar> 1000hPa is surface level pressure
[09:24] <OZ1SKY_5B> Hi Leo, ah ok tnx
[09:24] <LeoBodnar> Hi Brian
[09:25] <G0HDI> Is it a pop type balloon, about 60000 ft maybe? Hi LeoBodnar!
[09:25] <OZ1SKY_5B> they are not going for float, but the accent is pretty low
[09:25] <OZ1SKY_5B> 3.7m/s now
[09:27] <G0HDI> Wind not strong or change direction until near the coast so guess it's not going to come my way *sad*
[09:27] <G0HDI> I wanted to pick up voice beacon
[09:28] <PE1CME> Voice Balloon DL0CN-1 Q5 in JO32EA
[09:29] <G0HDI> Is JFS2 on map (Croydon) current, or is it an old one do you know?
[09:30] <PE1CME> on this moment on 145.200 MHz
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[09:30] <G0HDI> Nice!
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[09:31] <OZ1SKY_5B> bad connection here
[09:37] <G0HDI> 62930 ft. Going into orbit hi!
[09:39] <G0HDI> Shame it doesn't have ssdv. Nice view from up there.
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[09:41] <OZ1SKY_5B> yes that would be nice
[09:45] <G0HDI> 69 thou+.ft Didn't realise they could go that high. Is this a too high inside to outside pressure type balloon causing it to pop type balloon?.
[09:47] <OZ1SKY_5B> yes. but 30000-40000meter is not uncommon
[09:48] <OZ1SKY_5B> ca up to 131000 feet
[09:48] <G0HDI> Stone me!. That's pretty thin air up there
[09:49] <OZ1SKY_5B> yep
[09:49] <G0HDI> Might attract attention of any passing ufo's even
[09:50] <OZ1SKY_5B> lol
[09:52] <G0HDI> Wonder if spy sat's pick them up?. Presumably optically as not much reflective metal for radar
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[09:54] <G0HDI> Hello! It's turned East. Hope for me yet
[09:54] <G0HDI> West....Sorry
[09:55] <G0HDI> My brain's not out of first gear this morning yet lol
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[09:58] <es5nhc> Wow at B64
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[09:58] <OZ1SKY_5B> G0HDI it also picked up speed
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[10:01] <G0HDI> Blue footprint reached Dunkirk. Hope there's a vhf lift on hi Listening 145.2 Diamond 15 ft loadsa gain ant
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[10:02] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/127335_trj001.gif
[10:02] <OZ1SKY_5B> 2m does have some oth reach
[10:03] <Laurenceb__> 3 days to ireland
[10:04] <OZ1SKY_5B> cool lets hope for a return
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> 2 week now for B-64
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> s
[10:05] <OZ1SKY_5B> fantastic
[10:06] <OZ1SKY_5B> have you done some changes to then compaired to <B64´s ?
[10:06] <OZ1SKY_5B> them
[10:06] <Laurenceb__> pity abou tB-63, it should be around by now
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[10:09] <OZ1SKY_5B> Germans picked up speed now, 6.8m/s
[10:10] <OZ1SKY_5B> 28172m now
[10:12] <OZ1SKY_5B> and ground speed now 343km/h
[10:12] <OZ1SKY_5B> ahh must be some error in aprs
[10:12] <G0HDI> Yep! Now 23 mph
[10:13] <OZ1SKY_5B> is it getting close to you?
[10:13] <OZ1SKY_5B> signal wise
[10:13] <es5nhc> So, have any HAB's managed to circumnavigate the Earth in history so far?
[10:14] <G0HDI> Can I phone a friend hi
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[10:15] <OZ1SKY_5B> or go for 50/50 .-)
[10:15] <G0HDI> I'll ask the audience
[10:15] <NigeyS> lol
[10:16] <gonzo_m> at the amsat colloquium. looks like a few hab related talks
[10:16] <NigeyS> yo gonzo .. nice!
[10:16] <gonzo_m> first talk was hab
[10:16] <gonzo_m> they are streaming on batc
[10:17] <NigeyS> anyone we know ?
[10:17] <gonzo_m> the ears team i think
[10:17] <NigeyS> cool
[10:17] <G0HDI> Looks like German descending
[10:21] <OZ1SKY_5B> yep burst
[10:21] <OZ1SKY_5B> -19.8m/s
[10:25] <PE1CME> Alt = 13731m
[10:26] <G0HDI> I still prefer old money hi 41,867 ft
[10:29] <PE1CME> ok, it now 10241m=31214ft
[10:30] <G0HDI> lol
[10:34] <OZ1SKY_5B> going out for some food, later.
[10:35] <G0HDI> Bye!
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[10:44] <G0HDI> 4396 ft , final approach and no runway in sight..hi. Plenty of open ground though
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[10:46] <G0HDI> Flaps 30. Wheels down and locked
[10:46] <Maxell> Mogguh PE1CME. New here?
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[10:51] <G0HDI> Reverse thrust. Oops! right in a cow pat. No street view *sigh* Well that was fun....Off to do my ironing now. Bye all. Brian out!
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[10:55] <maxmed> would you say lines 46-50 have been put in the right place in this code: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code.ino I'm not sure if it should be inside the while(Serial.available()) or the if(gps.encode(c)) or just in the void loop as I have it?
[10:57] <PE1CME> hi Maxell, yes i'm new here
[11:00] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[11:00] <PC1PCL> maxmed - I suppose it could work, looks like in that case whenever there's no new serial data coming in, the while loop is left and the datastring is completed with a checksum and sent out. probably need to make sure 'datastring' is something valid incase there is no serial data at all.
[11:01] <PC1PCL> so I suppose you might also want it to be in the 'else' branch, so it only gets called when there was some valid serial data.
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[11:04] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/127676_trj001.gif
[11:06] <Laurenceb__> looks pretty likely to head straight to uk
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> heh
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> That's 63?
[11:07] <Laurenceb__> 64
[11:07] Action: SpeedEvil can't keep the numbers straight
[11:07] <SpeedEvil> Has 63 died?
[11:07] <mightymik> out of range perhaps, would not count it out yet
[11:07] <lz1dev> maybe out of range
[11:08] <lz1dev> give it another day or two
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:10] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/6XJbbGg.png :)
[11:12] <Laurenceb__> nice
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[11:18] <Maxell> PE1CME: welcome to HABbing. There might be a HAB launch The Hague soon (1 or 2 weeks)
[11:19] <Maxell> PE1CME: I see you setup dl-fldigi already? :)
[11:21] <PE1CME> Yes, everything is stand by here
[11:25] <Maxell> Awesome. Lets see if there will be any HABs today.
[11:25] <PE1CME> i'll hope so
[11:27] <PE1CME> can you hear DF0XX-11 ?
[11:39] <fsphil> any UK launches today?
[11:40] <mfa298> Dont think anythings been put on the list but that doesn't seem to mean much these days
[11:41] <fsphil> hah
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> B-64 has been 4 days away from the UK for a week now
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[11:53] <Maxell> PE1CME: I have not yet taken a look.
[11:55] <Maxell> PE1CME: only 2 meter frequencies? http://radio.felix-techie.org/?p=54
[11:58] <jededu> I was launching this morning but I need to chane the GPS antenna and test so will be tomorrow
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[12:00] <Maxell> :(
[12:00] <Maxell> Well, flying without gps is not that useful too :P
[12:01] <jededu> These new JDGA ones just dont like mo board
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[12:02] <jededu> But the sarantel lokck within 10 secs
[12:03] <jededu> locks
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[12:24] <Johnwulp> On which page can we see the frequency of the hab's? Is there a overview somewhere?
[12:28] <OZ1SKY_5B> not really, sometimes the are listed on http://spacenear.us/tracker/ and in dl-fldigi. what freq do you need?
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[12:32] <kt5tk-7> Good afternoon Europe!
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> hey Thomas
[12:33] <kt5tk-7> We're getting ready to launch KT5TK-5 at 1400 UTC
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[12:34] <kt5tk-7> Is it possible that someone will forward APRS to habhub? or will it bring it finally down to its knees?
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> i can try doing that
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> the former
[12:35] <lz1dev> ill get it on the map
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> oh ok, go ahead lz1dev
[12:36] <kt5tk-7> Thanks
[12:36] <kt5tk-7> Leo, the second you're trying anyways ;)
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[12:36] <LeoBodnar> lol
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[12:39] <kt5tk-7> FYI KT5TK-5 (BLT40.1) is a pico floater with 2x AAA batteries.
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[12:39] <kt5tk-7> Only 40 hours expected life time
[12:40] <Johnwulp> OZ1SKY_5B: I'm on holiday in Spain, and have a slow internet connection. Can't open the tracker, only the mobile one which doesn't display the frequencys
[12:40] <kt5tk-7> We're launching from Austin TX where we have a VHF / UHF /microwave conference.
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> good luck with the launch!
[12:42] <lz1dev> kt5tk-7: KT5TK-5 should be on the map :)
[12:43] <kt5tk-7> Great thanks!
[12:44] <DL7AD_mobile> Hi
[12:44] <kt5tk-7> Hi Sven
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[12:45] <DL7AD_mobile> Hi Thomas
[12:47] <kt5tk-7> DL7AD Greetings from the group. We're in the Joust house.
[12:49] <DL7AD_mobile> Ah thx greeting to houston :) im currently in the train
[12:50] <DL7AD_mobile> Driving into the city
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[12:54] <maxmed> running my new code (https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code.ino) I'm still getting odd results, maybe it doesnt have a gps lock yet but what I get out of it is:
[12:54] <maxmed> *70B5*AB31*CF8D*22D4*BD44*182C182C182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C1182C11
[12:54] <maxmed> Can't think why I'm getting this, any ideas?
[12:55] <daveake> Your checksum code is in the wrong place
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[12:56] <daveake> So you're calculating a checksum, converting to a string, and concatenating onto a sentence that hasn't been built yet
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Many GPSs will output strings of the form GPGSV,,,,,,,,,checksum
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> you need to check the 'valid' flag
[12:58] <maxmed> oh I see, should i put the checksum stuff inside the " if (gps.encode(c)) {..}" ?
[12:59] <daveake> First, encode() returns true when it sees a sentence
[12:59] <daveake> You need to at least wait till that happens, and you're not
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> 'will output' ... before it's got a position fix
[13:00] <daveake> Second, just because it sees a sentence doesn't mean it's a useful sentence (i.e. what SpeedEvil just said)
[13:00] <daveake> Third, even a useful sentence (GGA or RMS) won't initially have a fix
[13:01] <daveake> er RMC
[13:02] <daveake> However, you should still tx radio even if you don't have a new position. For example, your payload lands upside down and loses gps lock. You should keep sending the last position you got
[13:03] <daveake> So, wait for a position sentence, if it has a valid position use it, and if not keep your old position. Either way, send a sentence.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> With a 'not valid' flag, ideally
[13:03] <daveake> Yeah, I don't bother, but ideally.
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> but last position was valid so why invalid flag?
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> So you know that it's not a current position - as you want to know that, because you may only get a fleeting transmission, and knowing it's stale
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> I mean 'stale' ratehr than invalid
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> snus will probably refuse to plot it
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> For example - if the GPS has broken
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> ah ok
[13:05] <maxmed> ok, that all makes sense. Do I use the fix_age to determine if the data is valid?
[13:06] <Laurenceb__> todays challenge
[13:07] <Laurenceb__> no wait i cant even get far enough as uploading the file...
[13:09] <fsphil> that is the challange
[13:09] <F1VJQ> Are we expecting to see B-63 again soon?
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> filebin.ca is failing
[13:15] <LeoBodnar> it's either again or soon
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> trying to convert an inkscape document to png
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> just there is always screenshot...
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> NOAA is boycotting GFS05 updates
[13:17] <Laurenceb__> inkscape is getting confused about the document size
[13:17] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar yes, I expect it will be one or the other
[13:18] <F1VJQ> If it is flying, it needs to come into APRS range
[13:18] <F1VJQ> soon
[13:19] <F1VJQ> ANyway, I'll keep checking the map
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[13:26] <Ian_> Inkscape exports as PNG from the files tab. If you only want to export part of the Inkscape document, then select the area first.
[13:26] <Ian_> I'm sure you know that already though :)
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> yes i have lol
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> maybe i needed to group all the objects
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> nvm screenshotted it
[13:28] <Ian_> I normally select a complete area and end up grouping it. I also often make a rectangle and demote it to the lower level as a solid white background.
[13:28] <Laurenceb__> ok
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[13:33] <maxmed> daveake: do you think this is better: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code.ino I've put in a "default state" for the datastring during setup so it has something to use and send whilst waiting for a datstring. If i understand correctly once it gets a gps lock it will change the datstring to send the new info. If it loses gps lock then the datastring will be left unchanged but it will just keep transmi
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[13:37] <daveake> no
[13:38] <daveake> You didn't move the checksum/send code, which was the main fault
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[13:41] <maxmed> I thought that if I moved it it would not transmit anything at all when it didn't have a GPS lock?
[13:43] <daveake> Your loop ends when you have no more characters from the GPS. You then send a sentence that you haven't built yet. Does that sound right?
[13:44] <daveake> Your sending has to be only if gps.encode() returns true (and as discussed earlier you'll need additional tests after that)
[13:46] <maxmed> Hasn't a "default" sentance been built in the setup which it can use/send? It should then only ever change the datastring when fix_age is valid suggesting it has/had a fix. I guess i could look at number of satalittes to see if it does have a fix so data is valid
[13:47] <daveake> No the sentence should change every time you send a new sentence
[13:47] <daveake> i.e. count *always* changes
[13:47] <daveake> therefore crc needs to-doing
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[13:48] <daveake> So even if the gps dies completely you should still be sending new sentences, albeit the gps data won't be changing
[13:48] <daveake> anyway afk have to go do shopping things with mrs daver
[13:48] <daveake> -r
[13:49] <F1VJQ> BALLOONOLO-3 was launched but only the launcher tracking.... no updates since 12:38... doesn't bode well
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[13:52] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon all, M6NRB is sorted :)
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[14:10] <kt5tk-7> KT5TK-5 / BLT40.1 is up
[14:10] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: have you got any antennas up yet?
[14:11] <jiffe98> 7/j javascript
[14:11] <ibanezmatt13> nearly got the long wire up for HF, but I have that little Baofeng too mikestir
[14:11] <mikestir> I wonder if GB3MN is back up yet...
[14:12] <mikestir> no it's not
[14:12] <ibanezmatt13> Ah right, was looking at 3MP in N. wales but there's a bit of a hill in the way
[14:12] <mikestir> you could probably work that on a handheld, and it's 59+ to me here
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[14:13] <mikestir> yeah MP has really good coverage but its output power is limited so you do need a good path to it
[14:13] <mikestir> what about CR?
[14:13] <mikestir> 70cm
[14:13] <ibanezmatt13> not looked at 70cm ones yet
[14:13] <mikestir> output is 433.150
[14:14] <mikestir> tone 110.9
[14:14] <ibanezmatt13> just trying to find it
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[14:14] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see it
[14:15] <Laurenceb__> into Ontario
[14:17] <N2NXZ> What is the predicted flight for KT5TK-7 ?
[14:18] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: or LI on 433.250
[14:18] <mikestir> 82.5
[14:18] <ibanezmatt13> I'll give them both a try later on - You hear a tone from the repeater if you've opened it up don't you?
[14:19] <mikestir> LI is one of the few that still needs a tone burst, and then you get a carrier and ident
[14:19] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[14:19] <mikestir> CR drops carrier almost immediately unless you tx for a few seconds
[14:20] <mikestir> people on cr now
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[14:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I hear them mikestir
[14:22] <mikestir> it's a good repeater
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[14:24] <kt5tk-7> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=9c46f0ce696d5f218e978dfdc2955a97218572d8
[14:25] <kt5tk-7> N2NXZ it's KT%TK-5, not -7
[14:25] <kt5tk-7> N2NXZ it's KT5TK-5, not -7
[14:25] <N2NXZ> Sorry...trying to multitask here
[14:26] <kt5tk-7> KT%TK-7 is my temporary igate
[14:29] Nick change: rmmm__ -> rmmm
[14:29] <Laurenceb__> B-64 needs to speed up
[14:33] Nick change: rmmm -> rmmm_
[14:33] <Maxell> kt5tk-7: why not KT5TK-5 as IRC name and KT5TK-11 for the balloon? SSID 11 is mostly used for flying/baloons
[14:34] Nick change: rmmm_ -> rmmm
[14:35] <kt5tk-7> Because KT5TK-7 is where I am located and KT5TK is a Pecan version 5
[14:35] <kt5tk-7> -11 is used on our big (Latex) balloon launches
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[14:36] <kt5tk-7> I'm launching too many floaters so that I try to separate them by the SSID
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[14:39] <N2NXZ> Best of luck on your flight
[14:40] <kt5tk-7> N2NXZ Thanks
[14:44] <N2NXZ> I was wondering if M0XER-4 will come near NY
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[14:51] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/130434_trj001.gif
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[14:53] <mattbrejza> should B63 have appeared by now?
[14:54] <jiffe98> shot down by eskimos
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[14:58] <fsphil> probably stuck in a polar vortex
[14:58] <fsphil> we need igates up there :)
[14:59] <OZ1SKY_5B> put up a cubesat with a igate
[14:59] <fsphil> surprised that hasn't been done
[14:59] <lz1dev> the worst hysplit trajectories
[14:59] <OZ1SKY_5B> afaik there should be some aprs sat up there?
[14:59] <fsphil> space aprs seems to be on 145.825
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[15:00] <lz1dev> space aprs :(
[15:00] <fsphil> and they are not igates
[15:00] <fsphil> just repeaters
[15:00] <OZ1SKY_5B> ah ok
[15:00] <yo9ict_> Hi guys, balloon YO9ICT freq 437.6
[15:00] <yo9ict_> RTTY 50
[15:00] <OZ1SKY_5B> but ISS used to have a aprs on 144.490 or something+
[15:00] <OZ1SKY_5B> ?
[15:01] <yo9ict_> Maybe LZ1DEV can you look for it?
[15:01] <lz1dev> yo9ict_: im in the uk :)
[15:01] <yo9ict_> Ok, sorry
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[15:01] <OZ1SKY_5B> yo9ict_ whats your predict path?
[15:03] <OZ1SKY_5B> float or pop flight?
[15:04] <yo9ict_> Pop hopefully
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[15:06] <OZ1SKY_5B> R
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[15:14] <maxmed> been running this code for an hour: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code_ino.ino it seems to work I'm getting back: $$MAX,565,waiting for GPS lock*E5BF which is what I'd expect. Does the code look alright now and can you think of why its not getting a gps lock?
[15:14] <yo9ict_> At what alt usually do foils pop ?\
[15:17] <fsphil> you're printing "waiting for gps lock" after every single character you send to tinygps
[15:18] <fsphil> this takes so long that by the time it reads another character it's lost loads of them
[15:19] <F1VJQ> fsphil What languague is this? C?
[15:19] <F1VJQ> language
[15:20] <fsphil> it's C++
[15:20] <maxmed> ok, so you'd get rid of the whole waiting for GPS lock thing so have it do nothing whilst waiting for GPS lock?
[15:21] <fsphil> it's still a useful thing to do, but don't do it after every single character you feed into it
[15:21] <fsphil> otherwise it'll never work
[15:21] <F1VJQ> fsphil OK thanks...I prefer to see comments at every point saying what the program is doing, or should be doing....makes it easier to debug as a layman.. rather than ""
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Leeds:
[15:22] <fsphil> yea I try to keep my code commented
[15:22] <fsphil> maxmed's just learning though :)
[15:22] <F1VJQ> extra characters " rather than " not intended
[15:23] <F1VJQ> fsphil maxmed well commenting is the first learning point here!!
[15:23] <fsphil> indeed :)
[15:23] <maxmed> how often would you have it send the error message?
[15:23] <fsphil> it can also help the writer understand the code
[15:23] <F1VJQ> I don't know C++ but I write PHP amongst many others....
[15:24] <F1VJQ> exactly....
[15:24] <F1VJQ> When I was at the "salt mine" we would have structured walkthroughs of code... the author having to talk through a dry run of the code to his peers....
[15:24] <PC1PCL> I'd just have it print it at the start of the cycle.
[15:25] <fsphil> you could just watch the time, then send your "no gps lock" message after maybe 30 seconds
[15:25] <fsphil> up to you
[15:26] <maxmed> that was the sort of thing I was thinking of, I'll try to sort out something and add in more comments
[15:27] <F1VJQ> fsphil is C++ flexible on brackets? I notice the ASCII 7 or 8 routine has an IF/ELSE without any...
[15:28] <F1VJQ> maxmed comments don't cost CPU cycles.. so use lots!!
[15:28] <PC1PCL> keeping track of time and periodically re-issuing the state you're in would make it more complicate to get to work though. maybe write a small program that just does that first?
[15:29] <PC1PCL> F1VJQ: without brackets just the next statement is conditional, so if you then later add a x++; or something, you might shoot yourself in the foot, so probably better to add the brackets always.
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[15:30] <maxmed> I'll get rid of it all together for the time being and may add it back in once i get it working properly
[15:32] <fsphil> F1VJQ: yea the braces are only used to group commands
[15:33] <fsphil> if() expects to be followed by a single command, or a group within { }
[15:33] <fsphil> I'm sure there's a technical name for those entities
[15:33] <PC1PCL> 'block'
[15:34] <OZ1SKY_5B> yo9ict_ looks like a float now?
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[15:40] <maxmed> fsphil: which if() are you refering to?
[15:40] <F1VJQ> fsphil PC1PCL thanks for comments... I always prefer to stick to a standard [e.g. <?php and ?> to open/close a section of PHP]and not to use optional shortcuts such as <? and ?>
[15:42] <F1VJQ> and ALWAYS indent inside conditional at every level within
[15:42] <maxmed> oh sorry I see, not aimed towards me!
[15:43] <F1VJQ> maxmed nothing is being aimed!
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[15:44] <maxmed> I notice on this example code: http://www.ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6 it communicates with the gps at 4800 baud, obviously my code uses 9600 baud, is there any reason i should change it to 4800 baud?
[15:46] <PC1PCL> depends on the speed the gps is running at. if that is 9600 bps you should be fine. if you have a very long cable 4800 bps might be needed, but of course, you'd need to make sure the gps ran at that speed too, usually it's not automagical.
[15:48] Nick change: PC1PCL -> PC1PCL|afk
[15:48] <lz1dev> F1VJQ: <? ?> is the shorthand, in cases where you have wall of text and only want to include a variable
[15:48] <lz1dev> text text text <?=$word?> more text
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[15:49] <yo9ict_> Whats the usual pop altitude for qualatex foils ?
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[15:52] <OZ1SKY_5B> yo9ict_ dont know, but this looks like a float to me
[15:52] <F1VJQ> back... dropped out... thanks for comment ... I have not needed to use wall of text before!
[15:53] Nick change: F1VJQ -> F1VJQ_back
[15:54] Nick change: F1VJQ_back -> F1VJQ
[15:55] <maxmed> here is ammended code: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino.ino does it look like it should work better?
[15:56] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/131750_trj001.gif
[15:56] Action: amell fears for the welfare of B-63
[15:57] <amell> thought we would have seen B-63 back by now.
[15:57] <amell> maybe tomorrow...
[15:59] <N2NXZ> Been hoping to see B-63 again myself,beam pointed North/NW every chance I get.I would guess the Canadian ground stations will grab it anyhow.
[16:00] <lz1dev> amell: check the hysplit data on the mobile tracker
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[16:00] <N2NXZ> Too bad no web tuners available to the North
[16:01] <lz1dev> i'd give it another day
[16:01] <amell> Surprising that VE3VQK isnt picking up B-64, its inside the green circle!
[16:01] <yo9ict_> It poped
[16:02] <yo9ict_> Hooray, now the recovery :-[
[16:02] Action: amell wonders why VE3JJX-7 - a mobile igate is flying towards B-64
[16:04] <OZ1SKY_5B> yo9ict_ very good, have a good hunt
[16:05] <amell> lz1dev: never saw the hysplit function before :)
[16:05] <lz1dev> added it today
[16:06] <amell> remarkable.
[16:06] <amell> suggest you change balls for small ticks every 6/12 hours.
[16:06] <lz1dev> can't control those, its the kmz file from noaa
[16:07] <amell> youre taking the google maps kmz? the ones i have taken have no balls in them, just a line
[16:07] <lz1dev> they have balls
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[16:07] <amell> maybe just three lines. to represent best and worse cases.
[16:08] <lz1dev> that's the ensamble run
[16:08] <lz1dev> offsets the position around the one you give and creates a line for each
[16:08] <lz1dev> no control over the number of lines/spacing etc
[16:08] <amell> according to this B-63 should reappear tonight tomorrow morning
[16:10] <amell> B-66 should have reappeared by now according to your hysplit.
[16:10] <amell> its a good way to see whats what
[16:11] <lz1dev> at least they made it over Ukraine
[16:11] <aadamson> lz1dev, can you filter on the mobile tracker like you can on the regular one?
[16:12] <lz1dev> ?filter=PAYLOAD1;PAYLOAD2
[16:12] <lz1dev> to the url
[16:12] <aadamson> hmm... let me try that again
[16:12] <maxmed> yay the code works! datastring is received like this: $$MAX,29,16:06:03,46.158424, 6.729675,1120*34DB which is all correct. Only problem is it does not start a new line after each datastring! code is here: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino.ino can you see why it doesn't work?
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[16:13] <aadamson> poof working thanks!
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[16:16] <PC1PCL|afk> maxmed maybe whatever you use to display doesn't understand to start a new line after a \n; you could try to use \r\n instead
[16:16] <lz1dev> btw there are additional maps, like OSM etc thought the menu at the top right
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[16:16] <lz1dev> through*
[16:18] <aadamson> indeed... is the azimuth/elevation/distance, etc box from my computer location if I've filtered to one item?
[16:18] <maxmed> I'm using dl-fldigi but not in "hab mode" I
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[16:19] <lz1dev> adamgreig: it's from the location on the topright
[16:19] <lz1dev> based on which vehicle you are following/selected
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[16:19] <lz1dev> will add a way to manually enter location, eventually
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[16:19] <maxmed> I also need to add in something so it keeps transmitting the old datastring when it loses gps lock and need to initialize in flight mode
[16:20] <aadamson> awesome... good job!
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[16:22] <maxmed> what's odd is that it doesn't display the \n in the datastring, I'd imagine if the program just didn't understand the command then it would print it as text?
[16:22] <mikestir> maxmed: your checksum_str buffer is too short so it's chopping the \n off
[16:22] <PC1PCL|afk> I think RTTY needs a carriage return to start a new line, not a line feed.
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[16:22] <mikestir> *XXXX\n is 6 characters, your buffer needs to be at least 1 longer than this for the null terminator
[16:22] <mikestir> just make it 8 (even numbers are nice)
[16:23] <maxmed> mikestir, ah simple, I'll change that. How odd as I didnt write that but copied it from the code on the UKHAS wiki
[16:23] <mikestir> I know. the code on the wiki uses sprintf (not snprintf), and overflows the buffer
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[16:23] <mikestir> I did create an account to fix it, but I haven't got write access yet
[16:24] <PC1PCL|afk> actually I think maxmed also uses sprintf and strcat..
[16:24] <mikestir> your code is correctly stopping you from overflowing the too-small buffer
[16:24] Nick change: PC1PCL|afk -> PC1PCL
[16:24] <mikestir> he does use strcat, but he's using snprintf
[16:24] <maxmed> yeah I noticed that the buffer overflowed so changed it to snprintf to solve the problem. I'll lenghthen the string now
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[16:25] <PC1PCL> maybe I'm looking at older version of the code then :)
[16:26] <Maxell> PC1PCL: hey your aprs now TXed on 70cm?
[16:26] <Maxell> come again please :)
[16:26] <maxmed> yeah the github page got messed up again, it works fine if i just save the file but when i use save as so i have a copy of the original in case i want to revert back it becomes completely messed up!
[16:26] <mikestir> maxmed: that's the whole point of git
[16:26] <mikestir> you can get back to any previous version of the same file as long as you did a commit
[16:27] <PC1PCL> Maxell - Yeah, messing around with it a little, cleaned up the 'keying' circuit
[16:27] <maxmed> I realized that but didnt trust myself to be able to get hold of the older versions, I couldnt find them!
[16:28] <PC1PCL> was using a reed relay, but got some optocouplers in the mail..
[16:28] <Maxell> PC1PCL: nice
[16:29] <PC1PCL> should have been another packet just now..
[16:29] <Maxell> PC1PCL: yeah 70cm !5202.30N/00422.02E-PHG2120http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~pc1pcl/
[16:29] <Maxell> Sounded quite aweful
[16:29] <mikestir> maxmed: you have to roll your working directory back to the earlier commit, or you can just browse the log on github and view it there if you just need to have a look
[16:29] <PC1PCL> could be the cheap audiocard is set too loud..
[16:30] <Maxell> PC1PCL: yeah might need to lower audio outpu
[16:31] <PC1PCL> I've halved it, hopefully the next one sounds better.
[16:31] <PC1PCL> hmm, I think that it was now inaudible ;)
[16:32] <Maxell> PC1PCL: http://i.sigio.nl/4f6bb5c2916c8f5baea71585f4e76e79.png
[16:32] <Maxell> uh lemme check
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Ouch, I clocked up 0.6GB of data watching hmt for the last 3 days! I'm on !mobile!
[16:32] <Maxell> Nope no new packet :P
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[16:33] <PC1PCL> went back louder a bit just now, didn't hear anything again myself.
[16:34] <Maxell> ok no packet anymore
[16:34] <PC1PCL> of course the way the audio is coupled probably can use some improvements too..
[16:34] <lz1dev> Geoff-G8DHE-Tab: google earth?
[16:35] <Maxell> PC1PCL: oki !5202.30N/00422.02E-PHG2120http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~pc1pcl/
[16:36] <PC1PCL> now it sounded loud again, might be that the soundcard just cuts off under a certain value.
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[16:38] <Maxell> PC1PCL: yeah and quite some time the tx keeps on might want to cut that down
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[16:38] <Maxell> so you can hear the digi repeating
[16:38] <Maxell> however digi doesn't repeat
[16:39] <PC1PCL> yeah, seems that 'direwolf' is keeping the keying pin up longer than needed.
[16:39] <Maxell> PC1PCL: look for "txtail" feature
[16:40] <PC1PCL> Maxel: I already set that to the lowest it can go..
[16:40] <Maxell> oh heh
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[16:40] <PC1PCL> of course I could try a negative value, but it might mean it stays on very long :)
[16:41] <Maxell> higher r for to make the c bleed empty?
[16:41] <Maxell> on your ptt board
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[16:41] <DL1SGP> hi all
[16:41] <jededu> Huw long do flight docs last ?
[16:41] <jededu> How
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:43] <Maxell> jededu: a long time. Might not even expire
[16:43] <PC1PCL> hmm, ptt just has the diode in the optocoupler and an external LED for me to monitor the PTT, and then 1k resistor to limit current in series.. I suppose a higher resitor would mean an even lower current..
[16:43] <jededu> Thx Maxell
[16:45] <jededu> Flight tomorrow at 10:00 100g pawan 15000Mtr cutdown ill put it on the mailing list
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[16:48] <Maxell> PC1PCL: oh I sometimes there is a C on there and an R to bleed the C down.
[16:48] <Maxell> But there is none here.
[16:48] <Maxell> VOX still on?
[16:48] <PC1PCL> Maxell: bridging the resistor didn't help (except for brighter led of course), could be that whatever is supposed to pull down the RTS 'inside' the serial port is at fault, but I doubt that, as it is able to go 'up' instantly, and also goes down just fine when 'manually' fiddling with the settings.
[16:49] <PC1PCL> not using VOX, using 'real' radio at the moment, not the chinese HT ;)
[16:51] <DL1SGP> Brief Summary: Both flights that were performed by our local club went fine today, we were able to recover the 2 main payloads one in a corn field and another in close proximity of military territory.
[16:51] <DL1SGP> for the recovery in the corn field an octocopter was used in order to locate the payload and guide teams to it
[16:54] <PC1PCL> Maxell: txtail -1 prompts direwolf to use 100ms instead, but it feels more like over 500 ms of tail at the moment. volume control also just goes from 'too loud' to 'inaudible' abrubtly, it seems, so I guess I'll have to add in something to control attenuation externally.
[16:55] <Maxell> hmm weird
[16:56] <Maxell> Well, in these kind of situations I just try to remember "experiment, experiment, experiment!" and not just "not working" :P
[16:58] <PC1PCL> another reason to use 430.5125 and not 144.8 :)
[17:00] <Maxell> yeah 70cm is quite fun
[17:02] <maxmed> https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino/New_HAB_Code_ino_ino.ino there is new code, I added in an else loop (lines 62 to 78) so hopefully it will send old datastring if it loses gps lock and message if it isstill waiting for initial gps lock. does it look alright?
[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> lz1dev, no just FF, GE only used 56MB ...
[17:04] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/132533_trj001.gif
[17:04] <Laurenceb__> takes longer now :-/
[17:05] <chrisstubbs> jededu, you set the length of your flight doc when you create it. Defaults to 1 day.
[17:05] <PC1PCL> maxmed: char checksum_str[6] still only 6 characters so the \n wouldn't fit in *1234\0
[17:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> It won't all be hmt, but I tend to leave the tab running all the time!
[17:06] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: B-64 is always 4 days away
[17:06] <Laurenceb__> yeah lol
[17:07] <jededu> Ahh i need another one then ill test in the next 30 mins then set it up thx chrisstubbs
[17:08] <maxmed> ah i see what happened, checksum_str keeps being defined in each of the places i have a checksum calculation, I changed one but left the others! I'll change them all.
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[17:10] <mikestir> you might as well just declare it once at the top
[17:10] <mikestir> it's only used as temporary store between the snprintf and the strcat
[17:10] <mikestir> so you can use the same buffer for each instance
[17:11] <lz1dev> Geoff-G8DHE-Tab: did you refresh a lot?
[17:11] <maxmed> ok, I'll move it. I'm running the code now but it doesnt seem to work, it doesn't wait 30s before sending no-fix warning message but just keeps sending it as soon as possible (every 7 seconds)
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[17:13] <mikestir> I would suggest you just have one point where you generate the string to be sent, so that it retains the same format under all conditions. If the format changes it's not going to match your payload doc on habhub
[17:14] <mikestir> rather than sending something completely different just do something like sending number of satellites in the fix, clearing to 0 if the fix is not valid
[17:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> lz1dev, not that i'm aware of but only tab that has been running all the time for last 3 days..
[17:15] <LeoBodnar> NOAA Y U NO GFS05?
[17:15] <lz1dev> Geoff-G8DHE-Tab: seems a tad bit a lot tbh
[17:15] <maxmed> ok, I'll try that. problem is trying to add 1 to the count and the code combines the datastring with the checksum so if i try to use it adds another checksum then another and another.
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> lz1dev, yup i wasn't moaning about hmt as such, just that it suprised me just how much i have clocked up in the last few days!
[17:18] <lz1dev> i think it's the predictions
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> could well be
[17:19] <lz1dev> yep they seems to be large, and refreshed too often
[17:19] <lz1dev> gonna dial them down a bit
[17:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> normally at home you don't see how much each program uses the bandwidth
[17:20] <lz1dev> the predictions are 150kb every 30sec
[17:20] <lz1dev> so over 3 days non-stop
[17:21] <lz1dev> well, to be accurate, it deppends on how many balloon are on the map
[17:21] <lz1dev> and the winds
[17:22] <mikestir> maxmed: it might be easier to take a copy of the gps fix variables and then build the sentence each time. that way you can update whichever fields you need to while only updating the position when you know it's good
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: NAM 12kn tiles are more consistent http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/132743_trj001.gif
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> km
[17:23] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> and more wrong
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> considering current vector
[17:24] <Laurenceb__> lol
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[17:26] <OZ1SKY_5B> leaving 5B, later everyone.
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[17:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> lz1dev, maybe add a setting to allow changing refresh period and on/off perhaps?
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[17:29] <N2NXZ> Leo,thinking it will not make it this far South of my QTH?
[17:32] <DL1SGP> have a safe trip Brian
[17:32] <Maxell> PC1PCL: hehe: "PC1PCL>APDW10,WIDE1-1,qAR,PD2ATG-2" and "PD2ATG-2>APMI01,WIDE2-2,qAS,PC1PCL"
[17:34] <PC1PCL> :)
[17:35] <Maxell> WIDE1-1 is not that much, WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 might reach some further
[17:35] <PC1PCL> listening side of things seems to work well enough but still working on the transmit side..
[17:36] <Maxell> In Velsen PI2RWK gets picked up by PI1VBK-3
[17:37] <PC1PCL> Actually the config is set up to do a wide1-1 once then a wide1-1 wide2-1 30 minutes later and then a wide1-1 again 30 minutes after that. since the setup is stationary, that ought to be enough (if it was working properly :) )
[17:37] <Maxell> if none of the igates pick PI1RWK up PI1VBK-3 will do it
[17:38] <jededu> <jededu> Can somone approve this flight doc please 2d0569cbe70c41dad9ceb5f26ba07310
[17:38] <PC1PCL> I think I also have it set up to once an hour put my own beacon into the internet
[17:39] <Maxell> ah yeah sure however 70cm won't be such a problem to do WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 every 25 mins
[17:39] <PC1PCL> still messing with the volume of the transmissions for now though.
[17:39] <Maxell> hmm do you have ipv6?
[17:39] <Maxell> I can set you up with my receiver
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[17:40] <Maxell> PC1PCL: http://[2001:610:76a:0:221:70ff:fe02:620f]/
[17:40] <PC1PCL> I could probably get ipv6 working, but I've got several receivers myself, so for now shouldn't need an external one. Thanks for the offer though.
[17:41] <Maxell> hehe
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[17:47] <PC1PCL> :( things sound pretty soft at the point they go into the transceiver, but they still come out rather loud or not at all. go to try if using the kenwood makes a difference.
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[17:52] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[17:52] <Laurenceb__> B-63 might have missed the APRS in Ontario
[17:52] <Laurenceb__> just looking AT B-64 coverage
[18:01] <PC1PCL> Maxell: I've got the feeling this sounds better, but still need to work on the long txtail..
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> if it tracked the edge of Hudson Bay then yes
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> it would be interesting fro ensemble feature to have zones rather than dots. i.e. on selecting "animate trajectory" it would presend dispersion polygon rather than some scattered balls
[18:05] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[18:05] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/133382_trj001.gif
[18:05] <Laurenceb__> we should still have seen it
[18:05] <arko> :/
[18:05] <Laurenceb__> or at least see it this evening over western Canada
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> prediction accuracy of GFS has been awful last few days so I wouldn't look too deep into the lines
[18:06] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[18:09] <Laurenceb__> http://img.addfunny.com/funnypictures/hodgepodge/38/thebattlecanbegin.jpg
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[18:25] <N2NXZ> Hahaha...funny photos!
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[18:27] <arko> lol
[18:27] <arko> AR-15
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[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[18:31] <Lunar_Lander> M-16 right?
[18:32] <N2NXZ> yup
[18:32] <N2NXZ> same thing
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[18:58] <LeoBodnar> what does this mean? M0XER-4>APRS64,TCPIP*,qAS,VA3EOA:!/4.jn6vN\O KAJy/A=041026|50OO'sA'!-|
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> where did TCPIP* come from?
[19:01] <arko> did you put a NIC on B-64?
[19:01] <N2NXZ> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M0XER-4
[19:02] <N2NXZ> That would be the path from the RX station?
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[19:03] <LeoBodnar> yeah but B-64 beacons over RF with WIDE2-1 path, not over internet (just yet)
[19:06] <jededu> Can somone approve this flight doc please 2d0569cbe70c41dad9ceb5f26ba07310
[19:06] <PC1PCL> might be that the receiving station stripped off the entire path when gating over tcpip, instead of just using TCPIP* when originating its own packets?
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[19:14] <cipherzero> anyone here?
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> yes, we all are
[19:16] <N2NXZ> :)
[19:16] <cipherzero> great
[19:16] <cipherzero> I have a parachute question for you guys
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[19:17] <cipherzero> If I want a parachute for a X gram payload, to descend at 5 meters / second,
[19:17] <cipherzero> what should the diameter of my parachute be
[19:18] <cipherzero> and what should the size of the spill hole be?
[19:21] <lz1dev> are you making it yourself?
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[19:21] <LeoBodnar> try this: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart
[19:23] <cipherzero> thanks, ill have a look
[19:23] <daveake> Also the calculator at the bottom of http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html is probably easier to use
[19:25] <cipherzero> "Coefficent of Drag x Area"?
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> select a chute
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> it will populate it
[19:26] <cipherzero> what if it isnt in the list though?
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> multiply the are by Cd :D
[19:26] <LeoBodnar> area
[19:26] <daveake> Yes if the chute isn't listed you need the size and Cd
[19:26] <cipherzero> Cd?
[19:27] <cipherzero> noob here
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> drag coefficient
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> it is a constant from fluid dynamics
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> a half sphere parachute usually has Cd=1.3
[19:27] <cipherzero> oh, physics...
[19:27] <LeoBodnar> well Steve's calculator is broken for internatinal payloads
[19:27] <cipherzero> OK, thanks
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> i selected 18" chute and 2 tonnes payload and get 1.5 speed of sound
[19:28] <daveake> lol
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[19:28] <cipherzero> lol
[19:29] <daveake> Need another calculator
[19:29] <qyx_> you can beat LDSD!
[19:29] <daveake> Weight + Parachute + ground density --> speed + size of crater
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:39] <N2NXZ> Anyone know the best method to supply voltage to Arduino UNO,Ublox/NTX2 tracker for long flights?Maybe solar power needed?
[19:40] <N2NXZ> Not too sure the best batteries for the job.
[19:42] <daveake> Solar probably for more than 2-3 days, roughly
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[19:43] <YO9ICT> Hi guys, need some help exporting data from habitat for today's flight, never done it before
[19:43] <lz1dev> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[19:44] <daveake> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[19:44] <daveake> doh so slow
[19:44] <YO9ICT> and CVS, JSON or KML ?
[19:46] <chrisstubbs> Depends what format you want it in ;)
[19:48] <wenko> I didn't realise there were two of these active.
[19:48] <wenko> err, the M0XER baloons I mean...
[19:49] <wenko> -4 is over ontario, -3 is MIA near Hay River...
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[20:04] Nick change: jaymzx_away -> jaymzx
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[20:28] <N2NXZ> <daveake> Solar probably for more than 2-3 days, roughly > Tnx Dave,my battery pack now has been running for 8.5 hrs now with no solar power.Good test.
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[20:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__46054__Futaba_18MZH_18Ch_2_4GHz_Helicopter_Radio_System_Mode_2_.html - okaaaay
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[20:54] <carl_byr> I have Question about polyester
[20:54] <daveake> N2NXZ I'm confused. I thought you were asking about long flights. If you are then 8.5 hours is nothing. If you're doing a normal up-burst-down flight then it's fine.
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[20:56] <carl_byr> Qualatex balloon is made of polyester nylon and pe, the external layer is polyester or polyethylene?
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[21:10] Nick change: MichaelC1 -> MichaelC
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[21:15] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/134215_trj001.gif
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> its more consistent now
[21:15] <Laurenceb__> UK in 90 hours
[21:16] <Laurenceb__> also in range of iceland aprs
[21:16] <Reb-SM0ULC> yo
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> hej Reb-SM0ULC
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[21:22] <Reb-SM0ULC> Spent yet another bunch of hours on win8.1 instead of doing radio-stuff. :(
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[21:24] <N2NXZ> <daveake>I am still testing my current battery pack.Now running for 9.5 hours,not sure when it will kill the batteries yet.But positive solar will be needed for long flight.
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[21:25] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: how long i a long flight for you?
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[21:25] <N2NXZ> I want to try Trans Atlantic from NY
[21:26] <Reb-SM0ULC> small/big playload?
[21:26] <N2NXZ> aS FAR AS i CAN GET THIS :)
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[21:26] Action: fsphil wants to launch something that goes up a bit, bursts and comes back :)
[21:27] <N2NXZ> Arduino/Ublox/NTX2
[21:27] <fsphil> doing floating flights is too easy... ;)
[21:27] <N2NXZ> Fill release pop go get...lol
[21:27] <Reb-SM0ULC> fsphil:you usually don't recover.. :)
[21:27] <fsphil> easy when there's a lot of land around the launch site :)
[21:27] <N2NXZ> Its only money...lol
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[21:29] <N2NXZ> A desert would be easiest
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[21:31] <Ian_> You would think . . . We need a network of farmers to just telephone that they have your balloon ready for collection :)
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea xD
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[21:39] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: i guess aiming for solarpower is probably good
[21:39] <N2NXZ> I think so,may as well make it worth the work and time
[21:40] <N2NXZ> All fun anyhow
[21:40] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: and maybe some kind of hf transmissions
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[21:40] <N2NXZ> Yes,I have an AD9850 module already for RTTY beacon on 30m
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[21:41] <N2NXZ> dual payload this time
[21:41] <Reb-SM0ULC> ah, cool
[21:42] <N2NXZ> like flying a cider block once ready for flight...lol
[21:42] <N2NXZ> cinder
[21:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> use Balsa
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[21:43] <N2NXZ> Steel...:)
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:43] <N2NXZ> With glass solar cells
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that they sent Balsa capsules into space?
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[21:43] <N2NXZ> I believe that
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_program#Block_2_missions
[21:44] <N2NXZ> Cheap is good
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:46] <N2NXZ> Cooler yet,this guy is simple the best http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
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[21:47] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: when have you planned to fly?
[21:48] <N2NXZ> A few wekks,balloon(s) ordered on the way.Still need to work out the battery stuff and off it goes.Been working on this a few months
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[21:49] <N2NXZ> Hwoyee 1600...and the venting into a 300g.Sounds dumb,but going for it anyhow :)
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[21:53] <Reb-SM0ULC> ah
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[22:01] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: i remember your last ballon before christmas
[22:01] <N2NXZ> Yes,that was cool.It did pretty good too I thought
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[22:02] <N2NXZ> Last it was heard > http://aprs.fi/info/a/HB-N2NXZ1
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[22:03] <N2NXZ> Always send the wrong link...sry http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FHB-N2NXZ1&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[22:03] <N2NXZ> Hope to achieve this much again
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[22:11] <Reb-SM0ULC> N2NXZ: sounds like a plan :) will be happy to listen for the signals
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[22:11] <N2NXZ> I would be greatful.Hard to find listeners here in the USA
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[22:12] <LeoBodnar> send it our way, w'll make you proud
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[22:25] <vk3pb> hi all
[22:25] <fsphil> howdy
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:26] <vk3pb> balloon is about 1km sth of me
[22:26] <vk3pb> I live in north boronia
[22:26] <vk3pb>
[22:27] Action: Laurenceb__ read that as ballonia
[22:27] <vk3pb> :)(
[22:27] <vk3pb> ;)
[22:27] <vk3pb> Im trying to receive the 70cm transmissins on my dongle
[22:28] <fsphil> it's only a matter of time Laurenceb__
[22:28] <vk3pb> usb or lsb?
[22:28] <fsphil> pretty much all hab stuff is USB
[22:29] <Reb-SM0ULC> vk3pb: which one are you listening for?
[22:29] <vk3pb> vk3yt-11
[22:30] <vk3pb> on 434.650
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[22:31] <Reb-SM0ULC> ahh
[22:32] <vk3pb> thats weird im getting nothing
[22:32] <vk3pb> it shoudl eb quite loud
[22:33] <fsphil> is it definitly doing 70cm and not just aprs?
[22:34] <N2NXZ> I would hope to get it to you Leo...
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> oh, Andy changed his frequency to .650 ?
[22:38] <vk3pb> http://picospace.net/
[22:40] <Laurenceb__> B-64 is now 75% of the way around
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[22:43] <LeoBodnar> Is it still 4 days away?
[22:43] Action: cm13g09 sighs, LEO!
[22:43] <cm13g09> was it intentional to get most of the way around
[22:44] <cm13g09> and potentially do a circumnavigation
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> yes
[22:44] <cm13g09> ok
[22:44] <cm13g09> well you've got nearly every other record....
[22:44] <cm13g09> you might as well get that one as well
[22:45] <LeoBodnar> this is why Chinese/Japanese/NA APRS frequencies are there
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[22:46] <cm13g09> ok :)
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[22:50] <vk3pb> how do you track teh balloon when it is right over teh ocean?
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[22:51] <vk3pb> do you use hf?
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[22:53] <cm13g09> vk3pb: with LeoBodnar's setup, he's got some log replay functionality
[22:53] <cm13g09> If I remember rightly
[22:54] <vk3pb> ok
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[22:55] <andy_vk3yt__> ping Darkside
[22:55] <vk3pb> hi andy
[22:55] <andy_vk3yt__> HI Peter
[22:56] <vk3pb> its strange - the balloon is not far away but im not hearing anything?
[22:56] <vk3pb> i tried both 70cm and 2m
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[22:57] <vk3pb> oh that might work
[22:57] <vk3pb> i just plugged in my 2m antenna
[22:57] <vk3pb> it generally helps
[22:57] <N2NXZ> LOL
[22:57] <andy_vk3yt__> yes :)
[22:57] <N2NXZ> Done that more than once
[22:58] <vk3pb> im getting packets now
[22:58] <fsphil> :)
[22:59] <LeoBodnar> andy_vk3yt__: any pictures of your tracker?
[23:00] <andy_vk3yt__> LeoBodnar: just of the launch Leo, didn't have a chance
[23:01] <andy_vk3yt__> fsphil and LeoBodnard: can you approve flights?
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> nope
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[23:02] <andy_vk3yt__> I guess it is pretty late there now
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> Darkside can
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[23:02] <andy_vk3yt__> yeah I tried to ping him
[23:03] <vk3pb> i just received a 2m packets and Ui-view decoded it
[23:03] <andy_vk3yt__> Cool Peter!
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/134965_trj001.gif
[23:05] <Laurenceb__> a bit less than 4 days.. if it keeps on the right track
[23:06] <vk3pb> im looking to do my own balloon launch in the near future
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> should clear up a lot by the time it leaves aprs range
[23:06] <vk3pb> using arduino parts
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> - should be a lot more clear as to which path it will follow
[23:06] <vk3pb> ive ordered a number of bits oand pieces
[23:06] <vk3pb> how much weight can a pico balloon carry?
[23:07] <KT5TK> try to stay below 20g at least.
[23:08] <KT5TK> and use a good quality foil balloon
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[23:13] <vk3pb> thanks
[23:14] <vk3pb> that could be a challenge . my ardiono uno weights 28g
[23:14] <vk3pb> that could be a challenge . my ardiono uno weighs 28g
[23:14] <KT5TK> Note that the lighter you get, the higher you float
[23:14] <vk3pb> that could be a challenge . my arduino uno weighs 28g
[23:14] <vk3pb> aha
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[23:14] <N2NXZ> Cluster balloons?
[23:14] <KT5TK> Leo's payloads are somewhere near 10g
[23:14] <vk3pb> mind you i could use a tinyduino - much lighter
[23:15] <Laurenceb__> or just custom pcb
[23:15] <Laurenceb__> its not very hard really - lots of online board places now
[23:15] <KT5TK> You must take a mini Arduino or just solder the atmega SMD chip by yourself
[23:15] <vk3pb> ive never designed a circuit board before or a circuit
[23:15] <KT5TK> The most weight will be the batteries
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[23:16] <KT5TK> I started this with the trackers, too
[23:16] <vk3pb> ok
[23:17] <KT5TK> However there have been pico floaters\ with standard components some time ago
[23:17] <vk3pb> i am tempted to go the hf route
[23:17] <vk3pb> so that i can track over long distances
[23:17] <vk3pb> i get get a dds synthesizer board cheaply
[23:18] <vk3pb> ad9850 from memory
[23:18] <vk3pb> 0-40 mhz
[23:19] <KT5TK> Have a look at these:
[23:19] <KT5TK> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas
[23:19] <N2NXZ> That is what I will be sending soon,9850
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[23:19] <N2NXZ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YQe8AYZBQM
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[23:20] <KT5TK> I believe the ad9850 boards draw a lot of power.
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[23:20] <N2NXZ> going to test it soon with Nano
[23:20] <vk3pb> yes - exactly
[23:20] <vk3pb> it might be ok for short bursts of transmission
[23:21] <vk3pb> eg 10 seconds very minutes
[23:21] <N2NXZ> Strap some solar cells on it...lol
[23:21] <vk3pb> eg 10 seconds very 6 minutes
[23:21] <vk3pb> why not?
[23:21] <KT5TK> Still a lot of power
[23:22] <vk3pb> andy did
[23:22] <KT5TK> I do 2 APRS bursts per 10 minutes.
[23:22] <KT5TK> about 1 second each
[23:23] <KT5TK> But solar is certainly the way to go
[23:24] <vk3pb> an 80w panel should be enough :)
[23:25] <KT5TK> spray liquid solar cells on the hull of the balloon...
[23:26] <vk3pb> aren't there soem ultralight solar panels?
[23:26] <KT5TK> Yes, that's what Leo and some others use
[23:27] <KT5TK> But they are very thin and mechanically breakable
[23:27] <vk3pb> one thing about safety. if a light aircraft hit a picoballoon would it be ok?
[23:27] <KT5TK> So you can make only small constructions
[23:28] <KT5TK> Don't know, but I never heard that this happened
[23:29] <KT5TK> You definitely shouldn't launch so that your predicted track crosses a frequent flight path, e.g. near an airport.
[23:31] <vk3pb> that makes sense
[23:32] <Darkside> HF on a pico has problms
[23:32] <Darkside> A) power
[23:33] <Darkside> B) antenna size & weight
[23:33] <Darkside> on a larger launch, nither of those are insurmountable, i've done it already..
[23:34] <Darkside> my first launch had a 40m payload on it
[23:34] <KT5TK> I remember, about a year ago Leo tried one, on 27 MHz I believe. He couldn't track it for very long
[23:34] <Darkside> he wouldn't hav got any skywave
[23:35] <KT5TK> I also had a 15m / 40 m transmitter, however on a big latex floater
[23:35] <Darkside> would have just been line-of-sight, and on that band you're competing with local noise
[23:35] <Darkside> i was thinking 30m APRS would be a good one to try
[23:35] <Darkside> you'd need a few watts of TX power
[23:36] <KT5TK> Yes, at least 500mW
[23:36] <N2NXZ> tRIED 40M and 10m several times.10m was great for about 300 miles,propagation never seemed to cooperate.
[23:36] <Darkside> i'd stick with th lower bands
[23:36] <vk3pb> you could put a metallic strip up the balloon to act as an antenna
[23:36] <Laurenceb__> long antenni isnt a weight issue
[23:36] <Darkside> propagation on them is a bit more consistent
[23:36] <Laurenceb__> do the maths
[23:36] <KT5TK> 40m was so far the most successful
[23:36] <Laurenceb__> it can be done in <5 grams
[23:37] <Darkside> ultra thin wire i guess
[23:37] <KT5TK> But definitely just something for a bigger balloon
[23:37] <Laurenceb__> im a little worried about hazard to power lines
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[23:37] <Laurenceb__> other than that no isseu at all
[23:37] <N2NXZ> magnet wire
[23:37] <Darkside> power lines it the reason why i havent flown one again
[23:37] <vk3pb> just launch away from power lines
[23:37] <Darkside> particularly in australia
[23:37] <Darkside> vk3pb: its whn it lands thats the problem
[23:37] <Darkside> something you have little control over
[23:38] <vk3pb> id liek to send a balloon to antarctica - no power ines there
[23:38] <N2NXZ> Or a deer wrapped in it with your info attached to payload :(
[23:38] <vk3pb> just lots of Tuxes :)
[23:38] <Darkside> if you land across powerlines here in australia, you could start a bushfire
[23:39] <N2NXZ> I worry more about it crossing a trail for snowmobiles...etc
[23:39] <vk3pb> launch in winter then
[23:39] <Darkside> and yes, we have landed balloons over powerlines running across dry fields
[23:39] <Darkside> vk3pb..
[23:39] <Darkside> still not safe
[23:39] <vk3pb> hmmm
[23:40] <Darkside> there isnt a way to make it safe, which is the problem
[23:40] <Darkside> if you shorten the antenna, it becomes inefficint and wont work as well
[23:40] <Darkside> insulation won't help if it hits a 275kv transmission line
[23:40] <vk3pb> isee - you are purely talking about balloons with long antannas
[23:40] <KT5TK> vk3pb: I suggest you should get some experience with VHF or VHF trackers first
[23:41] <vk3pb> sounds liek a good idea
[23:41] <Darkside> the only way i'd do it is on a rgular balloon flight (not a pico), with a carefully controlld landing zon
[23:41] <Darkside> to intentionally keep the landing area away from power lins - i.e. land it in the middle of a large conservation or national park
[23:42] <vk3pb> i thought you could not control when the balloon lands?
[23:42] <N2NXZ> Here is what 10m ans 40m magnet wire looks like when found by a hiker> http://files.qrz.com/z/n2nxz/IMG_1655.jpg
[23:42] <Darkside> that approach only became possibl to us since we built a remotely-controlled cutdown
[23:43] <Darkside> vk3pb: we have a rasonably reliable cutdown system, which we trigger from the ground. problem is, that cutdown system weighs too much for use on a pico flight
[23:44] <vk3pb> i see what you are talking about
[23:46] <Laurenceb__> its possible to shorten using air core inductors
[23:46] <Laurenceb__> but it gets tricky to meet mass limit _and_ efficiency
[23:46] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: but that still reduces the antenna efficincy
[23:46] <Laurenceb__> yes
[23:46] <Laurenceb__> unless you using large inductors
[23:47] <Laurenceb__> i still havent worked out optimal point
[23:48] <vk3pb> you should tape the wire to the balloon. duct tape is indestructible
[23:48] <Darkside> anyways, i think a dipole is probably the easiest way, you just need to be careful with it
[23:48] <Darkside> vk3pb: th balloon isn't
[23:49] <vk3pb> so have you launched many balloons darkside?
[23:49] <N2NXZ> I got lucky with those long dipoles,the balloon spiraled down and wrapped it all up.
[23:49] <Darkside> vk3pb: heard of project horus?
[23:50] <vk3pb> oh of course i remember that
[23:50] <vk3pb> are they still launching balloons?
[23:50] <Darkside> we haven't been doing many high-profile launches recently
[23:50] <vk3pb> over in sa
[23:50] <Darkside> mainly commerical stuff and launches for schools
[23:50] <vk3pb> cool
[23:51] <vk3pb> wouldn't it be great if you could remotely control the height of the balloon?
[23:51] <vk3pb> so you coudl effectively steer it
[23:53] <Darkside> not impossible i think, just difficult
[23:53] <Darkside> you need a way to relase gas, and a way to drop ballast
[23:56] <vk3pb> probably only feasible for the bigger balloons
[23:57] <vk3pb> i had an idea that you coudl have a small machine that extracts water form tehair and puts itin a tank thusincreasing weight. when you want to go up you just let some water out
[23:57] <vk3pb> i had an idea that you coudl have a small machine that extracts water from the air and puts it in a tank thus increasing weight. when you want to go up you just let some water out
[23:58] <N2NXZ> I tried ice before that was to melt at low altitudes
[00:00] --- Sun Jul 27 2014