highaltitude.log.20140725

[00:00] <nigelvh> So, he leaves 2-3gr of lift beyond the payload
[00:01] <F1VJQ> Yes, I think so... and they float at about 12.5km
[00:02] <nigelvh> Yeah
[00:02] <F1VJQ> UK - Canada so far is 14 days and over 20,700km
[00:03] <nigelvh> Perhaps one of these days I'll have to send out a floater and give it a try.
[00:03] <nigelvh> All my previous flights we want to peak and pop so we can recover them in a few hours.
[00:03] <F1VJQ> distance calculated from position to position.... lat/long
[00:04] <nigelvh> Yeah, actual distance will be somewhat farther.
[00:06] <F1VJQ> Leo never considers recovery....
[00:07] <F1VJQ> he just sends 11gr of payload and God bless her!
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[00:10] <F1VJQ> nigelvh actually the distance flown is very precise if you measure point to point
[00:10] <F1VJQ> every fix...
[00:11] <F1VJQ> and accumulate the distances
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[00:11] <myself> F1VJQ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox
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[00:12] <myself> how much smoothing do you apply? how often do you take fixes? If you're measuring at 10Hz and have a few cm jitter per fix, you accumulate vast error pretty quickly
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[00:13] <KG7CSS> MOXER-4 drifeet
[00:13] <F1VJQ> myself the ballon sends its position every so many seconds... so you can calculate the distance flown...
[00:13] <KG7CSS> dryfeet
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[00:13] <KG7CSS> I just cant get a lock where I live
[00:14] <F1VJQ> and if you start at launch site and compute all the sent lat/long... and add them up... it will be as precise as you can get
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[00:16] <F1VJQ> KG7CSS where are you in relation to Seattle?
[00:17] <KG7CSS> I am in Portland OR (Actually Hillsboro 140 mi south)
[00:18] <wrea> I'm southwest of Olympia, so I'm in -4's path
[00:18] <F1VJQ> are you inside the blue ring on spacenear.us?
[00:18] <KG7CSS> It looks like it will fly overy you
[00:19] <KG7CSS> wait one
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[00:19] <wrea> Earlier it looked like it would be right over me, looks like it's path got nudged a tiny bit north
[00:20] <wrea> Looks like it'll fly between Olympia and Shelton
[00:20] <KG7CSS> Yes but I got an obstructed LOS hills
[00:20] <F1VJQ> well good luck to all of you in hearing B-64.. I tracked it on Contestia 434.5 for about 8 hours as it passed through France
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[00:22] <F1VJQ> and most distant reception was at just under 450km
[00:22] <KG7CSS> I did pick up a HAB Mission near Spokane IDaho boarder form when I live http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=8&call=a%2FKG7CSS&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[00:23] <KG7CSS> there is hope if it moves east
[00:23] <F1VJQ> KG7CSS arfe you using Spacenear.us?
[00:23] <KG7CSS> NO
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[00:24] <KG7CSS> is there some instructctions?
[00:25] <F1VJQ> have a look at the blue ring... LoS ...see > http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[00:26] <F1VJQ> blue ring = LoS at zero degrees....
[00:26] <KG7CSS> I see it I am the blue but my aptment faces the wrong direction
[00:27] <KG7CSS> I got a hill behind me
[00:27] <F1VJQ> Oh Foxtrot....!
[00:27] <F1VJQ> or alternateively ... O f***
[00:29] <KG7CSS> I seen hit digirepeaters in slaem or
[00:30] <KG7CSS> bye
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[00:42] <snelly> oh wow
[00:42] <snelly> it looks like B-64 is going to fly right over my house
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[00:59] <snelly> 272 MPH
[00:59] <snelly> that can't be correct (even though the wind is cranking here)
[01:03] <N2NXZ> APRS does have some glitches,seen the same thing on aircraft.
[01:04] <nigelvh> Upu/fsphil: Where's my HAB points? 01:05:10 M0XER-4/JUPITR/WIDE2*>APRS64>UI,C,F0 (1200 baud):
[01:04] <nigelvh> !/6Z3A/F-GO K)nM/A=041426|_"OJ([?k!*|
[01:05] <N2NXZ> http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=glob_250
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[01:45] <snelly> looks like it flew right over Vashon
[01:45] <snelly> dang...missed me by a couple of miles
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[02:31] <nigelvh> Even better, heard this packet and got it to APRS-IS directly, no digipeats. M0XER-4>APRS64,WIDE2-1,qAR,K7NVH-1:!/6DTN/]_qO K*CM/A=041492|a(OR(V?o!)|
[02:35] <snelly> woohoo
[02:35] <snelly> 2014-07-25 02:34:53.549 NW5W-1 R M0XER-4>APRS64,W7PFR-1*,WIDE2*:!/6>m4/d6gO K*O5/A=041371|aHOM&a?^!*|
[02:35] <arko> :)
[02:35] <arko> lucky
[02:36] <arko> im so very jealous
[02:36] <nigelvh> arko: You'll survive
[02:36] <arko> lol
[02:36] <arko> im sure i will
[02:36] <nigelvh> We'll see how I do with picking up B-66 tomorrow or so.
[02:36] <arko> hehe
[02:37] <arko> im stuck here with my pcbs in limbo
[02:37] <nigelvh> Yeah?
[02:37] <arko> not sure if hackvana actually shipped them or not :/
[02:37] <arko> he keeps telling me "its shipping tomorrow"
[02:37] <arko> im just writing software now without the hardware :|
[02:38] <nigelvh> Hmm. I haven't used hackvana. I use OshPark and he gets them to me VERY quickly.
[02:39] <arko> i like hackvana as a person, he's super reachable and cool
[02:40] <arko> and way affordabled, so i rather give him my business, but i think for higher priority stuff im gonna shell the cash out for it
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[02:43] <aadamson> arko, so I think the problem is he uses goodluckbuy to ship and they aren't that reliable
[02:43] <aadamson> I had the same problem on my boards from hack
[02:43] <arko> he just switched
[02:43] <aadamson> oh really
[02:43] <aadamson> that's good
[02:43] <aadamson> mine got stuck the same way
[02:43] <arko> yeah, i happened to order right at the switch
[02:43] <aadamson> and I paid expidited shipping too
[02:43] <aadamson> which still as it all turned out was a really good deal
[02:44] <arko> me too, but that only matters when he has it in his hands
[02:44] <arko> yeah totally
[02:44] <arko> low cost is great
[02:45] <arko> he probably could pull in loads more money if he got his supply chain into a well lubricated machine
[02:45] <aadamson> yes I agree
[02:45] <aadamson> I was still very pleased with the product and I had only used oshpark prior.
[02:45] <aadamson> reason I went to hack was I wanted .8mm boards
[02:46] <arko> yeah, i want to get finer pitch traces now
[02:46] <arko> start doing BGA
[02:46] <aadamson> oh my... what are you using for reflow?
[02:46] <arko> the cost is huge but man you can build so much
[02:47] <arko> so tiny
[02:47] <arko> let me find the model
[02:47] <aadamson> I use one of these and a walmart special
[02:47] <aadamson> are you using that 962A or what ever it is?
[02:47] <arko> T-862
[02:48] <arko> for IR
[02:48] <aadamson> ah the heated board thing, not an oven... yeah IR
[02:48] <arko> but for hotplating i use MAdell Quick870
[02:48] <arko> all the ovens ive tried have been terrible
[02:49] <aadamson> I seem to have got lucky
[02:49] <aadamson> I guess with my oven
[02:49] <arko> nice
[02:49] <arko> which model?
[02:49] <aadamson> it's a 1500watt and with that controller and a SSR, it works
[02:49] <aadamson> it's really old, I don't remember
[02:49] <aadamson> I've had it for a few years
[02:49] <arko> ah i see
[02:49] <aadamson> thermocouple and that arduino board and it follows the profile *OK*, not perfect, but not terrible either
[02:50] <arko> im probably going to buy a metcal reflow station some day
[02:50] <aadamson> but I also *only* use the kester easy profile 256 solder paste.
[02:50] <arko> i wish they made a hot plate :/
[02:50] <aadamson> yeah I have a metcal soldering/tweezer station and I'd be so lost if I didn't have!
[02:50] <arko> Metcal 4 Lyf
[02:51] <arko> we have at least 20-25 metcals at our hackerspace
[02:51] <arko> we love em
[02:52] <aadamson> yeah, they are awesome, instant and with the right tips, they can do miracles :)
[02:53] <arko> hurray currie point
[03:02] <myself> jeez, we have room for like 4 soldering stations and that's about all the lab can hold, elbows-wise
[03:03] <arko> :P
[03:03] <myself> but then we have a 15HP CNC mill in back, so, we've divided out space a little differently :P
[03:04] <arko> awww
[03:04] <arko> thats awesome
[03:05] <heathkid> pay shipping (freight)... our lab is going to be getting rid of a *LOT* of equipment...
[03:06] <heathkid> arko: need a SEM? :)
[03:06] <arko> SEM?
[03:06] <heathkid> Scanning Electron Microscope
[03:06] <heathkid> really?
[03:07] <heathkid> though it'll probably get stripped for spare parts but still usuable
[03:07] <heathkid> I know we're going to remove the EDXA
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[04:29] <arko> good god its annoying to setup aprsis
[04:29] <nigelvh> Yes
[04:29] <nigelvh> Most of the programs are excruciatingly outdated.
[04:29] <arko> ok i need help
[04:30] <arko> so outdated and terrible
[04:30] <arko> i have a virtual audio port
[04:30] <arko> no problem
[04:30] <arko> i got AGW setup
[04:30] <arko> and made a comport
[04:30] <arko> except i dont see it in device manager
[04:32] <nigelvh> So, I have AGWPE set up with the "Winsock" interface, and then APRSIS32 connects to that.
[04:32] <arko> nigelvh: any ideas/?
[04:32] <arko> oh
[04:33] <nigelvh> And AGWPE just listens to the audio card.
[04:33] <arko> right
[04:33] <arko> how did you create a winsock interface?
[04:33] <arko> oh wait i think i see it
[04:33] <nigelvh> If you right click the AGWPE icon, there's a Setup Interfaces option
[04:33] <arko> enable winsock tcp/ip
[04:33] <nigelvh> And then there's a checkbox there
[04:33] <nigelvh> Yeah
[04:35] <arko> how can i tell with aprsis32 if im actually rx'ing a station?
[04:35] <nigelvh> I assume you mean RXing over the air?
[04:35] <arko> yeah, im using the rtl usb
[04:35] <arko> so rx only
[04:35] <arko> i see all these aprs beacons showing up
[04:35] <arko> but i think it's getting these fromt he inter
[04:36] <arko> from the*
[04:36] <nigelvh> Yeah, so under view, I think you can click none, then click on RF->All
[04:37] <arko> blah
[04:37] <nigelvh> Seems mine is defaulting to showing me what I hear directly and what I iGate
[04:37] <arko> just as i suspected
[04:37] <arko> nada
[04:37] <arko> so i created a port of AGW
[04:37] <arko> set the ip to 127.0.0.1 and the port to 8000
[04:37] <arko> it didnt complain
[04:38] <nigelvh> I used "localhost"
[04:38] <nigelvh> The top left corner of APRSIS32 should say APRS-IS OK and AGWPE OK alternating.
[04:38] <nigelvh> For the two ports it's connected to.
[04:38] <arko> yeah it does
[04:38] <arko> WOAH!
[04:38] <arko> got one!
[04:39] <arko> about bloody time
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[04:39] <arko> thanks nigelvh
[04:39] <arko> :)
[04:39] <nigelvh> The other thing you can do is right click the AGWPE icon, and use the sound card tuning aid to get your volume levels right.
[04:39] <arko> yeah that was the issue
[04:39] <arko> volume was to loud
[04:39] <nigelvh> I use the sine wave display, and try to get it so most packets aren't quite clipping.
[04:39] <arko> looked at the wave forme
[04:40] <arko> so does this program automatically upload to the aprs network?
[04:40] <nigelvh> Also, (unfortunately) I have found that AGWPE isn't the best packet decoder. Other programs like MixW decode much better, but I haven't figured out how to use that for an iGate.
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[04:41] <nigelvh> If you have your APRS-IS settings configured right, it will upload to the network, yes.
[04:41] <arko> excellent
[04:41] <arko> wow what a mess
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[04:42] <arko> 4 different programs to do one simple thing
[04:42] <nigelvh> So, there's Config->General where you put in your callsign and your APRS-IS "passcode", and there's your APRS-IS port where you configure what kinds of packets you'll forward to that port.
[04:44] <arko> whats a passcode?
[04:44] <nigelvh> To upload to the APRS-IS network you have to have a passcode. If you don't have yours, I can generate one for you.
[04:44] <arko> i think i found a generator
[04:44] <nigelvh> Yeah, it's kinda public knowledge
[04:45] <arko> woo!
[04:45] <arko> there i am
[04:45] <arko> on the map
[04:45] <nigelvh> Though they try not to talk it too loudly.
[04:45] <arko> this makes me appriciate dl-fldigi
[04:45] <nigelvh> This makes me appreciate anything that isn't windows
[04:45] <arko> lol
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[04:46] <nigelvh> My iGate runs on an ancient netbook that I let sit on windows XP and just don't fuck with it.
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[04:49] <arko> haha
[04:50] <arko> gonna set one up at our hackerspace after my europe trip
[04:50] <arko> gonna be too busy before then
[04:50] <arko> want to do tracking eventually
[04:51] <arko> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FN6ARA&timerange=3600&tail=3600 woot woot
[05:00] <nigelvh> Doesn't seem you've igated anything yet
[05:01] <nigelvh> (Could just mean that someone else managed to upload it to the network first.
[05:01] <nigelvh> I hear a lot of stuff that I don't get "credit" for igating.
[05:02] <nigelvh> Also, man B-64 is moving fast
[05:02] <nigelvh> But good coverage here through washington
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[05:45] <snelly> sadly my crappy igate never heard B-64 directly
[05:45] <snelly> Hoping the new antenna that arrives tomorrow will improve things
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[05:56] <Maxell> arko: hehe "Where the heck is B-66?"
[05:57] <Maxell> Igasting right?
[05:58] <Maxell> iGating*
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[05:59] <nigelvh> Yes, he's igating
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[06:30] <amell> good morning. latest hysplit is looking very good for coming home - http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=188895
[06:31] <amell> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/188895_trj001.gif
[06:32] <amell> in fact red track tals
[06:32] <amell> takes her directly over launch location
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[06:50] <nigelvh> B-64 is just going to be the never ending hab
[06:51] <DL7AD> like a satellite. launche one time, can be used for many years
[06:52] <DL7AD> just not that high orbit and not that much orbital speed
[06:53] <LeoBodnar> have you managed to hear it Nigel?
[06:54] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar: Indeed I have.
[06:54] <LeoBodnar> cool
[06:54] <nigelvh> Even managed to beat everyone else to the internet a time or two and be counted as the iGate on APRS.fi
[06:54] Action: nigelvh helped!
[06:54] <LeoBodnar> ah, nice, that's not easy
[06:55] <LeoBodnar> usually there is a git with the fastest inet connection that wins all the time
[06:55] <nigelvh> Helps when we run a tier 2 server and I have a dedicated connection to it.
[06:55] <LeoBodnar> heh
[06:55] <LeoBodnar> so i have installed an igate
[06:55] <LeoBodnar> and for two days could not squeeze in :(
[06:55] <LeoBodnar> very discouraging
[06:56] <nigelvh> Yeah, even with favorable network conditions, I don't win the race for the majority of packets I hear OTA
[06:56] <jededu> In the output string $$ ect are the $$ included in the CRC-16 checksum ?
[06:56] <LeoBodnar> nigelvh why many servers cut off connections on a regular basis?
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[06:57] <nigelvh> Is it dropping you? Does it seem on a regular/on purpose basis?
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> i usually have 5-10 disconnects and reconnects a day
[06:57] <nigelvh> Oh man, that's no good.
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> seems random and not specific server
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> i have used asia.tier2
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> alias
[06:57] <nigelvh> Yeah, it shouldn't do that. And your internet in general isn't flakey?
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> it rotates stuff
[06:57] <LeoBodnar> no rock solid
[06:57] <nigelvh> Hrm...
[06:58] <LeoBodnar> i'll try yours
[06:58] <nigelvh> Well, if you want to try our server, despite it being across the world, it's northwest.aprs2.net
[06:58] <LeoBodnar> i don't think location matters much
[06:58] <nigelvh> http://northwest.aprs2.net:14501/
[06:58] <LeoBodnar> it's only a few 10kbps of traffic
[06:58] <LeoBodnar> thanks, i will try next time i fire up DireWolf
[06:59] <LeoBodnar> 14501 is standard aprs-is port?
[06:59] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: continous ping to the serve might help ;)
[06:59] <LeoBodnar> i have used rotating alias
[06:59] <nigelvh> Yeah, we have this server conveniently located right on our network edge with some nice peering, so it's got good connectivity
[06:59] <DL7AD> nigelvh: there's NOCALL-1 active!
[06:59] <nigelvh> Also has IPv6 capability if you please.
[07:00] <LeoBodnar> asia.aprs2.net
[07:00] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: no :14580 here
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[07:01] <LeoBodnar> interesting
[07:01] <nigelvh> 14580 is the user defined feed port.
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[07:01] <LeoBodnar> i think DireWolf does not allow port selection
[07:01] <LeoBodnar> i'll check
[07:01] <nigelvh> 14501 is the web page status port
[07:01] <LeoBodnar> ah so it's standard aprs-is setup?
[07:01] <nigelvh> Yeah
[07:01] <LeoBodnar> cool
[07:02] <nigelvh> http://northwest.aprs2.net:14501/ shows the full stats on the server and what ports/addresses it responds to
[07:02] <LeoBodnar> ok, work run!
[07:02] <LeoBodnar> bbl
[07:02] <nigelvh> have fun!
[07:02] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: why not just 80.176.146.86:14580 thats england :P
[07:02] <jaymzx> nigelvh: So Northwest is your box?
[07:03] <nigelvh> Northwest runs on a network I've helped build, and the software runs on a server I have control of. One of my colleagues actually installed the software.
[07:03] <Maxell> meh rotates... Rather have connecting near me (amsterdam) :P
[07:03] <jaymzx> Ah ok. The hamwan team.
[07:03] <nigelvh> Yes
[07:03] <Maxell> for lowest ping and less transit costs for $isp
[07:04] <nigelvh> I'm a board member and a network admin for HamWAN
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[07:12] Nick change: jaymzx -> jaymzx_away
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[07:44] <LeoBodnar> next 3 days of B-64 http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/194942_trj001.gif
[07:45] <fsphil> can't complain about that
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[08:54] <craag> Our 2-pronged 'liberation' of the USA from the rebel
[08:54] <craag> colonists still going well I see
[08:54] <craag> Just staging in canada..
[08:56] <nigelvh> Haha
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[09:43] <jcoxon> i think the guys in the states should launch balloons to act as a flotilla
[09:43] <jcoxon> to welcome M0XER-3/4
[09:48] <NigeyS> is 63 still out of tracking range ?
[09:49] <jcoxon> appears so
[09:50] <NigeyS> :/
[09:51] <LeoBodnar> patience is a virtue in ballooning
[09:51] <LeoBodnar> this is not rocketry
[09:52] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/113084_trj001.gif
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[10:00] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14258_trj001.gif
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[10:01] <jcoxon> so perhaps it'll appear today
[10:02] <astrobiologist> APRS: should I be transmitting narrow or wideband FM?
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[10:03] <Darkside> wideband
[10:03] <Darkside> unless you do things weird in the UK
[10:03] <Maxell> astrobiologist: here in the EU it's wide fm (12,5 kHz)
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> narrowband
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> wideband is broadcast FM
[10:05] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: depends on your definition of narrow/wide
[10:06] <Darkside> in th commercial FM world, Narrow is 2.5KHZ deviation, Wide is 5KHZ deviation
[10:06] <Darkside> with according occupied bandwidths and channel spacings
[10:06] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: you have broadcast wide (200 kHz?)and narrow fm wide/narrow (12,5 kHz and 6,25 kHz)
[10:07] <Darkside> Maxell: those are the channl spacings
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> WFM (1 kHz/52.5 kHz Dev.; 12 dB SINAD)
[10:07] <Darkside> not the occupied bandwidths
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> from my IC-R20 manual
[10:07] <Maxell> hmmm
[10:07] <astrobiologist> my manual says my handheld operates in normal FM deviation (+- 5khz) or narrow band FM deviation (+- 2.S khz) so which should I pick?
[10:07] <Darkside> astrobiologist: wide.
[10:07] <Darkside> well, 'normal'
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> normal != wide
[10:08] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: depends where you look
[10:08] <Darkside> astrobiologist: use normal.
[10:08] <F1VJQ> B-64 crossed US coastline at 23:41 utc
[10:09] <astrobiologist> so which should I pick from the ones on my handheld for aprs? I'm trying narrow (+- 2.5 Khz) at the moment
[10:09] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: what you are reading in your IC-R20 manual tells you what the deviatiosn are for whatver icom dcided to call their internal modes
[10:09] <Darkside> astrobiologist: NORMAL.
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> *NORMAL*!
[10:09] <Darkside> i only said it 3 times :P
[10:09] <Darkside> jeez
[10:09] <Maxell> F1VJQ: b-64 in us?
[10:09] <F1VJQ> Maxell yes
[10:10] <Maxell> awesome
[10:10] <F1VJQ> Maxell travelling east from UK
[10:10] <LeoBodnar> well i try to simplify
[10:10] <F1VJQ> Maxell actually B-63 and B-64 are both in Canada at the moment
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> WFM is broadcast FM in gqrx as well
[10:11] <Darkside> diffrent 'standards'
[10:11] <Darkside> for 'land-mobile' FM, you have wide and narrow
[10:11] <Darkside> broadcast FM is kind of a different category
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> confusion stems from 12.5kHz channeling pushed in europe
[10:11] <Darkside> yeah channel spacing has little to do with deviation
[10:11] <astrobiologist> OK guys I'm back on +-5Khz, "normal".
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> what used to be narrow is suddenly "normal"
[10:12] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: yeah because you guys have such a tiny 2m band
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> nobody cares
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> 25kHz is still normal
[10:12] <Darkside> but APRS would still be 'wide' (5KHZ deviation) to support lgacy gear
[10:12] <astrobiologist> I left it on +-5Khz all night and just a couple of times I got digipeated
[10:12] <F1VJQ> actually 2MHz is a lot... it is/was 25kHz spacing and FM that are the waste of space
[10:12] <Darkside> astrobiologist: thats probably saying more about your antenna setup than your deviation
[10:13] <astrobiologist> but really just a couple of packets. so I have been trying narrow too
[10:13] <Darkside> astrobiologist: on narrow you'll be seen as underdeviating
[10:13] <Darkside> if you didn't get *any* packets through on wide then i'd be wondering whats going on
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[10:13] <Darkside> ugh
[10:14] <Darkside> ok, googled
[10:14] <mattbrejza> on aprs.fi how do you see all the packets an igate has received?
[10:14] <astrobiologist> I can receive packets readily. the rx seems fine. I can't tx though by the looks of it
[10:14] <Darkside> UK apparently uses 'narrow' deviation for APRS
[10:14] <Darkside> ffs
[10:14] <Darkside> y u so diffrent
[10:14] <Darkside> astrobiologist: set it to narrow, sorry...
[10:14] <Darkside> here's me thinking UK APRS would be like the rest of the world
[10:14] <Darkside> nop
[10:14] <Darkside> nope*
[10:15] <gonzo_> narrow? you mean dev for 12.5khz chans?
[10:15] <Darkside> gonzo_: 2.5KHZ deviation
[10:15] <Darkside> forget about the channl spacing
[10:15] <astrobiologist> darkside: ur confusing me! :-) +-2.5 or +-5 for aprs in the U.K?
[10:15] <astrobiologist> OK I'm going back to NARROW +-2.5
[10:15] <Darkside> astrobiologist: suppoedly its +-2.5KHz
[10:16] <Darkside> from what i'm reading in a few places anyway
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> i have flown 20 HABs with 1.2kHz deviation by mistake
[10:16] <astrobiologist> I'm passing stonehenge. anybody nearby who could listen out for my packets?
[10:16] <gonzo_> the dev needs to be narrow enough to fit through the chan filters on the rx
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> on APRS signal
[10:16] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: hah
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> up to 750km range
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> one went to Japan
[10:17] <gonzo_> I can't remember the std dev's. Is 2.5KHz+- narrow even for 12.5 filters?
[10:17] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: sure, it'll just be a lower level at the output of the receiver
[10:17] <Darkside> gonzo_: the filters arent 12.5KHz wide
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> i was aiming at 3.5kHz but got it wrong by a factor of 3
[10:17] <daveake> You'll get this stuff right one day Leo :p
[10:17] <Darkside> for 2.5KHz deviation the occupied bandwidth is 10KHz wide, for 'wide' its something like 16KHz
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> as on 144MHz PLL channel step is 1/3 of 434
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> lol
[10:18] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: you might want to consider changing the deviation in different aras
[10:18] <Darkside> areas*
[10:18] <Darkside> i.e. in R3 we'd be using 5KHz deviation
[10:18] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar - a buguette of sorts
[10:18] <daveake> mm baguette
[10:18] <Darkside> and if you run at 2.5KHz, there'll be a lot of aprs igates/digi's that won't hear you properly
[10:18] <gonzo_> Darkside, what's the filter width for a 12.5kHz spacing then?
[10:18] <F1VJQ> bugette (sic)
[10:18] <Darkside> gonzo_: 10KHz i think
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> +-3.5kHz peak works well everywhere
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> as we see on B-63+
[10:19] <gonzo_> sounds sensible. Only seen radio sspeced for 12.5 channeling. Never loked at the actual filter BW apart fro ssb kit
[10:19] <Darkside> one flight is not proof
[10:19] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: some narrow receivers will mute with >2.5KHz deviation
[10:20] <Darkside> not all, but some
[10:20] <Darkside> you're probably just being gated by the ones that don't mute
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> well i might throttle back to +-2.5kHz
[10:20] <GW8RAK> For 12.5KHz spacing, IIRC, the filter bandwidth is 6KHz
[10:20] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: 2.5KHz would be a safe bet for sure
[10:20] <gonzo_> the BW is going to be the 3dB points I expect
[10:21] <gonzo_> so there will be roll off to the next cnan
[10:21] <gonzo_> chan
[10:21] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: if you can toggl it in software i'd switch it up to 5KHz in some countries
[10:21] <Darkside> probably safe to have it run at 2.5KHz in IARU region 1, and 5KHZ in rgions 2 and 3
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> 1.2 worked brilliantly so i am not really bothered too much
[10:22] <gonzo_> do a narrow then a wide
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> i do proper pre-emphasis so it might help
[10:22] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: i'm just suggesting you conform to local 'standards'
[10:22] <Darkside> which will rais your chances of getting a packet received
[10:22] <Darkside> by *all* igates, not just ones that happen to work with a low deviation signal
[10:23] <gonzo_> for .it that means a 1kW with echo
[10:23] <Darkside> if you're changing frequncy anyway, changing deviation at the same time shouldn't be difficult?
[10:23] <Darkside> gonzo_: bahaha
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> i can't complain for now
[10:23] <Darkside> gonzo_: same for spain
[10:23] <Darkside> gonzo_: spain doesn't have power limits
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> i'll probably have interleaved packets with different deviation and compare the success rate
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> or more probably i won't bother
[10:24] <Darkside> set it to 2.5KHz and leav it
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[10:24] <Darkside> should work fine everywhere
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> yep
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[10:25] <LeoBodnar> i wonder what deviation makes best SNR
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[10:25] <LeoBodnar> it is very demod dependednt
[10:25] <Darkside> probably one that fits within the filter bandwidth i'd guess
[10:26] <gonzo_> feels like it should be the widest that the chan will allow.
[10:26] <Darkside> yeah
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> but it should plateu
[10:26] <nats`> don't agree
[10:26] <Darkside> if its too low for a given filter bandwidth, you'll get more noise in, right?
[10:26] <nats`> it means higher noise floor
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> plateu and drop off as deviation increases
[10:26] <Darkside> nats`: i mean, narrow filters mean better SNR performance, sure
[10:27] <Darkside> but for a *given* receiver filter bandwidth, you'd be best to occupy it for FM
[10:27] <nats`> Darkside one technique is to widen input filter and do a parametric filter behind
[10:27] <nats`> to narrow it and recenter the Fc
[10:27] <Darkside> nats`: we'r talking commercial FM receivers here
[10:27] <Darkside> not custom stuff
[10:27] <astrobiologist> I managed to transmit an aprs packet on +-5khz deviation last night. so why did that work if I wasn't on +-2.5 then?
[10:27] <Darkside> astrobiologist: som recivers will still receive
[10:28] <Darkside> astrobiologist: or someone has their recivre on th wrong setting, which is also likly :P
[10:28] <nats`> Darkside we could apply same rule as MSK
[10:28] <astrobiologist> darkside: it was a local digipeater so less likely
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[10:28] <gonzo_> if the rx site has wide filters, your packets will just be loud. If they have narrow filters it will clip and distort. Proabbly being seen as noise, so the squelch may close
[10:29] <Darkside> nats`: FM analysis is painful
[10:29] <Darkside> devolves into bessel function crap which i cant remember
[10:30] <gonzo_> been a long time since I did that. The maths all evapourated years ahgo
[10:30] <astrobiologist> anyway I'm on +- 2.5khz now but it hasn't seemed to help (nobody digipeating me to an igate even though I could receive a lot of other packets)
[10:30] <Darkside> astrobiologist: could mean many things
[10:30] <Darkside> astrobiologist: could mean other stations are overpowering your signal
[10:30] <gonzo_> you need a local RX (on your bench)
[10:30] <astrobiologist> I am not rx'ing packets right now, suspect I'm out in the sticks anyway (salisbury plain)
[10:31] <Darkside> astrobiologist: what tx antenna and power are you using?
[10:31] <astrobiologist> gonzo_: may possibly have ordered another handheld on ebay ;-)
[10:31] <astrobiologist> darkside: just handheld's own rubber duck. 5w
[10:31] <Darkside> well that probably wont help too much
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[10:31] <Darkside> not a good test anyway
[10:33] <astrobiologist> darkside: but quite typical for mobile aprs surely?
[10:33] <Darkside> astrobiologist: not with a handheld rubber duck
[10:33] <Darkside> you'll usually have a much higher gain antenna
[10:34] <Darkside> i use 5W in my car, and i use an antenna with about 5dBi gain on 2m
[10:34] <Darkside> but theres lot of digipeaters near me so it doesnt matter anyway
[10:34] <Darkside> i know people in th country who run 25W of APRS in their cars, into similar antennas
[10:35] <astrobiologist> haven't noticed much difference between the rubber duck and a telescopic whip I have too
[10:35] <Darkside> well no
[10:35] <Darkside> the telescopic whip wont have much more gain anyway
[10:35] <Darkside> best it can do is approximate a 1/4 wave
[10:36] <astrobiologist> 25W yikes! but how does balloon aprs work so well then?
[10:36] <Darkside> because it has LOS
[10:36] <Darkside> you don't
[10:36] <Darkside> also a balloon signal will get clobbered by local signals anyway
[10:37] <gonzo_> if you are in the vehicle, I think you can use what you want in the uk. unattended is limited, prob 25W eirp, for a duration
[10:38] <gonzo_> but a balloonn will be heard by more aprs stations, so hopefyllt they will not tx over it
[10:38] <gonzo_> (that assumes stations fo a listen for clear before tx)
[10:40] <gonzo_> you can get telescopic 5.8th wave antennas. But they are a bit unwieldy and I'd worry about breakling the radio connector
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[10:45] <astrobiologist> giving up for now anyway because the nipper needs the iPad to watch a movie!
[10:46] <astrobiologist> I had ordered a magmount but it didn't turn up in time...
[10:46] <astrobiologist> will carry on tx at +-2.5Khz later
[10:46] <astrobiologist> so what sort of rig do people out in their cars etc then? what wattage is the yaesu 817?
[10:48] <craag> Hi astrobiologist
[10:48] <craag> A lot of people use an off-the-shelf tinytrak or similr
[10:49] <Darkside> i use an old kenwood handheld
[10:49] <Darkside> dos 5W
[10:49] <Darkside> does*
[10:49] <Darkside> it would be a waste using an 817 for APRS
[10:49] <craag> Most other people here use an old yaesu car rig
[10:49] <Darkside> yeah, old radios ar ea good move - the receive current is usually low, and thats also important
[10:49] <astrobiologist> darkside do you have one of the kenwood handheld with built in gps and aprs?
[10:49] <Upu> I use a UV5R
[10:50] <Darkside> astrobiologist: yeah i have on of those as well, but its not what i use in my car
[10:50] <Darkside> in my car, i have an old handhld (TH-215E) and an OpenTrackr USB
[10:50] <Darkside> OpenTracker*
[10:50] <craag> The raynet guys here use 20W+ for aprs
[10:51] <craag> I used my handheld last time though it it worked better :)
[10:51] <craag> *and it
[10:51] <Darkside> when i finally gt a kenwood TM-D710G i'll be using 25W :-)
[10:51] <astrobiologist> I am usually mobile on public transport only
[10:51] <astrobiologist> so my little th-f7e is good
[10:51] <astrobiologist> and since it can receive ssb I was hoping to use it for hab too
[10:51] <astrobiologist> hence attempts to bodge a cable
[10:52] <Darkside> if you're putting APRS in a car, you put APRS in the car. you get a dedicated radio
[10:52] <Darkside> a UV-5R will work fine
[10:52] <Darkside> dont use somehting you're going to want to take out often to use for other things
[10:52] <craag> If you're after something man-portable - a board with a gps,avr and hx1 might be more suitable.
[10:52] <craag> run off AAs
[10:52] <Darkside> craag: not enough power i've found
[10:53] <mattbrejza> craag: fyi ASTRA is currently igating
[10:53] <astrobiologist> hmmm if everybody else out there is using 1/4 waves at 25w am I basically being swamped out? do the digipeaters have theit squelch set quite high?
[10:53] <craag> mattbrejza: Cool
[10:53] <Darkside> craag: i've made what you're suggsting, and flown them on balloons
[10:53] <Darkside> craag: they work fine on balloons, crap on the ground
[10:53] <craag> Yeah we're a bit spoilt in soton with an LOS igate on the isle of wight
[10:54] <craag> last time I tried, 5W worked from lecture theatres :P
[10:54] <Darkside> pff
[10:54] <mattbrejza> so far nothing is on aprs.fi as its 3rd information when it gets to me
[10:54] <astrobiologist> craag: I had been tx-ing packets on +-5Khz not +-2.5Khz, in your experience would that have made a big difference?
[10:55] <craag> Nope
[10:55] <Darkside> craag: oh? i read APRS in th UK is 2.5KHz deviation
[10:55] <craag> It's supposed to be
[10:55] <Darkside> craag: so 5KHz dviation would distort
[10:55] <craag> Most of it isn't
[10:55] <Darkside> oh, so its a mess?
[10:55] <Darkside> hah
[10:56] <craag> You can clearly hear the different ones coming through!
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> it's "recommended"
[10:56] <LeoBodnar> but nobody knows it is
[10:56] <craag> Yeah, the portsmouth digipeater last I heard was still running the firmware that occasionally repeats hours-old packets too
[10:57] <Darkside> craag: what tncs are they using?
[10:57] <Darkside> old MFJ ones?
[10:57] <craag> I can't remember offhand - gave up on it all a while ago
[10:57] <astrobiologist> craag: I had just a couple of packets get through to the winchester digipeater but nothing else
[10:57] <astrobiologist> I tried again from the car at +-2.5Khz but nobody picked me up
[10:57] <craag> astrobiologist: Hmm, do you use have an rtl-sdr to listen to your own beacon?
[10:58] <astrobiologist> craag: no, no other receiver. I have ordered a cheap baofeng actually, should arrive by the time I get back!
[10:59] <Maxell> WX3.1 had this problem right?
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[11:01] <astrobiologist> craag: what is so frustrating is that at least a couple of the packets did get through, so it is not a total problem, something more subtle! (packets too quiet? distorted? etc)
[11:01] <craag> astrobiologist: Are you using VOX?
[11:01] <craag> to key the rig?
[11:01] <astrobiologist> craag; yes I am using vox
[11:02] <craag> How long is your preamble tone?
[11:02] <Maxell> make sure there is suffcient preamble to open the vox
[11:02] <Darkside> snap
[11:02] <craag> ;)
[11:02] <astrobiologist> the preamble is set to 500msecs
[11:02] <craag> longer pls
[11:02] <Maxell> More then suffcient
[11:02] <Maxell> are you sure craag ?
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> jeez
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> i use 100ms
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> and it is still too long
[11:02] <Maxell> But not for vox LeoBodnar
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> ah, sorry correct
[11:02] <craag> My wouxon needs >500ms jsut to wake up
[11:03] <astrobiologist> for that matter I have a postamble set on the handheld to stop the vox turning off too soon
[11:03] <craag> I usually use 750
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> i meant on-air
[11:03] <Maxell> craag: my baofeng would do 350 ms
[11:03] <astrobiologist> I have maximum gain set on the vox
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[11:03] <craag> Well try 1000, see if it helps
[11:03] <craag> If not, change it back
[11:03] <Maxell> and with ptt keying even 150 ms works
[11:03] <Maxell> yaesu needs like 450 ms or even longer
[11:03] <astrobiologist> I'm not sure if it goes beyond 500 but will try
[11:04] <Maxell> astrobiologist: aprsdroid?
[11:04] <astrobiologist> ipad commandeered to watch disney movie by another passenger for now :-)
[11:04] <Maxell> mobilinkd tnc?
[11:04] <astrobiologist> Maxell: no, pocketpacket for ipad
[11:04] <craag> I'm not so sure if there's a lazy squelch on the winchester digipeater
[11:04] <craag> I remember having a lot of issues with short preambles
[11:04] <Maxell> ah astrobiologist
[11:05] <astrobiologist> craag: I'll make it as.... ....... ... long as I can
[11:05] <astrobiologist> all in all though the tx light on my handheld comes on for quite a long time
[11:05] <craag> 30 seconds should do it ;)
[11:05] Action: craag ducks..
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[11:06] <Maxell> I see some peambles of like a sec or so, about twice as much air time on the preamble then actual packet
[11:06] <craag> postamble is not normally needed
[11:06] <craag> the VOX will stay open for a while anyway
[11:06] <Maxell> yeah on the baofeng uv-b5 two secs... way to lang
[11:06] <craag> ouch
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> interesting course change http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FM0XER-4&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> went up 500m then dropped 1km and changed course and speed
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> must be two airflows collision
[11:07] <Maxell> craag: baofeng rx sucks tho
[11:08] <Maxell> ... Still looking for a cheap "real" 2 meter rig for dedicated aprs
[11:08] <craag> Yeah, I've got one of the expensive wouxons (purchased a few months before baofeng appeared), but it's receiver is rather good in comparison.
[11:08] <Darkside> look for old handhelds
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[11:08] <Upu> Maxell UV-5R
[11:08] <Darkside> or that
[11:08] <craag> or old 2m-only car rigs
[11:08] <craag> off ebay
[11:08] <Maxell> Upu: beats the UV-B5 rx?
[11:09] <Darkside> hm need to watch commonwealth games opening
[11:09] <Upu> http://aprs.fi/#!v=heard&call=a%2FM0UPU-1&timerange=3600&tail=3600 <- UV-5R + PiTNC
[11:09] <astrobiologist> I've ordered a Baofeng to have a listen to my packets
[11:09] <astrobiologist> want to get this cable sorted out for hab
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[11:09] <Maxell> hmm *looks*
[11:09] <craag> Upu: Got that running at the moment?
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> speed dropped from 100km/h to 30km/h in a matter of minutes
[11:10] <Upu> yep
[11:10] <astrobiologist> in fact... if the nipper has commandeered the ipad... I might try out the chase car app
[11:10] <Upu> not been off for a month or so
[11:10] <craag> Might see if I can throw a packet into it ;)
[11:10] <Maxell> and for mobile the yaesu also seems to outpreforms the baofeng uv-b5 with doppler/flutter
[11:10] <Upu> Occasionally switch it to 434.500 to pick up Leo
[11:10] <Maxell> ah leoaprs is also fm?
[11:10] <astrobiologist> let me know if this is a bad time to play with the tracker app
[11:10] <Upu> over UK he TX's APRS on 434.500 @ 10mW
[11:10] <LeoBodnar> i did SSB as well
[11:10] <Upu> needs the Yagi
[11:11] <Maxell> ok
[11:11] <LeoBodnar> when we launched near Xmas last year
[11:11] <Maxell> ssb aprs eek
[11:11] <LeoBodnar> what's wrong with that?
[11:11] <Maxell> requires some good tuning
[11:11] <LeoBodnar> it's just FSK
[11:12] <gonzo_> afsk?
[11:12] <LeoBodnar> FSK
[11:12] <Darkside> none of the APRS receivers have decent tracking
[11:12] <Darkside> as in, frequency correction
[11:12] <Darkside> so you need to be spot on in frequency
[11:12] <LeoBodnar> they have quite wide tone filters
[11:12] <LeoBodnar> +- 100Hz is ok
[11:12] <Maxell> Upu: haat is still not updated? :)
[11:12] <Darkside> this is why FM is used, as mobil doppler can be pretty bad
[11:12] <Darkside> mobile*
[11:12] <Upu> I have no idea how to change it Maxell
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> Doppler?
[11:13] <Darkside> yup
[11:13] <gonzo_> aprs is simp-le afsk ax25 isn't it?
[11:13] <Upu> it was transmitted by some program I used ages ago and I can't work out how to change it
[11:13] <Maxell> yeah mobile flutter/stuff/buildings
[11:13] <Darkside> doppler shift too
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> please don't call it Doppler
[11:13] <Maxell> Upu: oh you just build your own phg code
[11:13] <Darkside> not sure how significant the doppler shift is
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> 0.1Hz
[11:13] <Upu> Sure it is that easy :)
[11:13] <Darkside> but apparently its noticable on SSB
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> wut?
[11:13] <Maxell> Upu: http://www.apritch.myby.co.uk/phgrcalc.htm and put it before your normal comment
[11:14] <Darkside> yeah i dunno
[11:14] <Darkside> seems a bit weird to me too
[11:14] Action: Darkside runs the calcs
[11:14] <Upu> hmm ok let me try that
[11:15] <astrobiologist> I'm setting up my handheld and chase car app at an example frequency of 434.5Mhz. is it normally lsb or usb?
[11:15] <gonzo_> usb
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/default/doppler
[11:16] <astrobiologist> gonzo_: thanks. I assume there is nothing in the air right now
[11:16] <Maxell> Upu: for example 5 watts 3db omni at 10 feet PHG2030/M0UPU iGate upuaut@gmail.com
[11:16] <Darkside> yeah small shifts
[11:16] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: yeah dosnt make sense
[11:16] <Upu> ok changed it lets see if that works
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[11:16] <LeoBodnar> 40Hz at 434MHz at 100km/h
[11:16] <Darkside> hrm
[11:16] <Darkside> you'd hear that
[11:16] <gonzo_> I'm still confuse at this fsk aprs. Are you just refering to demod of the baseband after the fm demod, or are you using your own real fsk on air?
[11:17] <Darkside> gonzo_: he means just sending FSK
[11:17] <Upu> oh think its fixed
[11:17] <Upu> thanks
[11:17] <Darkside> so if you dmodulate that wiht a USB receiver, and feed it into MIXW or soundmodem or whatver, it'll demodulate just like AFSK aprs
[11:17] <gonzo_> Darkside, FSK over an FM link?
[11:17] <Darkside> no
[11:18] <Darkside> raw 1200 baud FSK on 70cm
[11:18] <Maxell> Upu: hehe M0UPU-1>APRX28,TCPIP*,qAC,T2CSNGRAD:!5345.12NI00149.10W#PHG20304/M0UPU iGate upuaut@gmail.com
[11:18] <Upu> not TXing atm
[11:18] <Maxell> power 4W, antenna HAAT 3 m, gain 3 dBi omni,
[11:18] <gonzo_> OK, a leo special mode then, rathethan the usual aprs
[11:18] <Upu> going away this weekend so not leaving it unattended
[11:18] <Maxell> range 5.7 km, rate 4 packets/hour
[11:19] <Maxell> is it allowed in the UK, to run unattneded digis?
[11:19] <Upu> no
[11:19] <Upu> but I ignore that
[11:19] <Upu> as the application process and requirements are full retard
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> i have used USB receiver and fed that into a TNC [12:17] <Darkside> so if you dmodulate that wiht a USB
[11:19] <Upu> G1YPQ-1 has been running for about 2 years with no NoV
[11:19] <craag> Well as long as you accept responsibility for all packets transmitted by it (including repeats), it's no different to a remote station
[11:19] <Upu> and he's a pita as his clock is out
[11:20] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: yeah i mean demodulate as in 'demodulating' the SSB signal down to baseband
[11:20] <Upu> you have to have 5 nominated people who can shut it down in 30 mins
[11:20] <Maxell> Upu: wow, ignoring stuff like that might not be such a great idea here... however I get this far too
[11:20] <Darkside> then demodulate the FSK again :-)
[11:20] <Upu> and remote access to shut it down but this doesn't count as one of the 5 people
[11:20] <Darkside> your UK APRS rules are a bit shit
[11:20] <daveake> s/APRS/radio/
[11:20] <Darkside> hah
[11:20] <gonzo_> 'demodulating' ssb is just a freq shift to baseband
[11:20] <Upu> its OFCOM and their stupid retarded don't understand it so lets make it retarded rules
[11:21] <Upu> they don't care about packet
[11:21] <Upu> not interested at all
[11:21] <Maxell> heh
[11:21] <gonzo_> you can run anattended, but needs a special addition to your licence. And as upu says, paperwork pain
[11:21] <Upu> I've spoken to a few people
[11:21] <daveake> Perhaps invent APRS-embarassing-medical-conditions-net
[11:21] <Darkside> around here we just do it >_>
[11:21] <daveake> Maybe they'd get interested then
[11:21] <Upu> and basically we just run "attended" in speech marks
[11:21] <Darkside> but we don't have the density of hams you do
[11:22] <gonzo_> they are not really that interested in what goes on in primary AR bands. As long as it stays in them
[11:22] <Upu> hence me removing TX
[11:22] <Maxell> wheheh
[11:23] <Maxell> tx might not even help here... pi1dft already is too big
[11:23] <Maxell> might invest some time on the 70cm freq
[11:23] <jonsowman> define density
[11:23] <jonsowman> ;)
[11:23] <daveake> ha my thoughts too :)
[11:23] <Upu> Anything is more densily populated than the desert that is Australia
[11:23] <Darkside> pff
[11:23] <gonzo_> in the long run I expect they will hand policeing of the AR bands over to someone like the rsgb.
[11:23] <Darkside> theres 1.5 million people living with 30km of me!
[11:24] <Upu> and thats pretty much it
[11:24] <LazyLeopard> Even Australia has a higher ham-density than some parts of (say) Africa...
[11:24] <jonsowman> or the Atlantic
[11:25] <gonzo_> that's international waters, so no licenec req?
[11:25] <gonzo_> so could all the cod be considered AR op's?
[11:25] <Darkside> sounds fishy
[11:26] <gonzo_> and whales shouting one-alpha-tango
[11:26] <gonzo_> (better than wales shouing one-alpha-tango...,. boy'o)
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[11:27] <Darkside> haha
[11:27] <Darkside> i've only worked wales once
[11:27] <Darkside> and the accent was a challenge
[11:27] <NigeyS> lol
[11:27] <daveake> Where would code plaice their antennae?
[11:27] <daveake> -e
[11:27] <daveake> dammit
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> morse cod?
[11:27] <LazyLeopard> Last time I was in WA I think I talked with at least a dozen other amateurs in the state. Last time I was in Kenya I think I spoke to maybe a dozen other amateurs in Africa, and only two of them were in Kenya...
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[11:27] <Darkside> hrm the welsh staiton was MW0RLJ
[11:28] <gonzo_> used to listen to the trawler men off the scotish coast on their HF radios in the eves. They just pitch up on a chan and use it like cb
[11:28] <Darkside> we have th same problem with indonsia
[11:28] <gonzo_> that used to take a while to get your ear aroudn the accents
[11:28] <Darkside> indonesia*
[11:29] <Darkside> (as in, fishermen using HF)
[11:29] <gonzo_> but the padding word in the conversations is the usual hook you need to start hearing 'english' in there
[11:29] <Darkside> mainly on 40m, but we also see them on 10m
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[11:29] <gonzo_> they just sit around 4-5MHz here NVIS I suspect
[11:29] <gonzo_> though to them it's prob a chan numkber on a radio
[11:30] <Darkside> yeah
[11:31] <gonzo_> the sounds of most of them, they probably could not focus on more than a couple of digits
[11:31] <jededu> Is CRC CCItt the same as CRC16 CCITT
[11:32] <Darkside> probably
[11:32] <Darkside> is there a CRC8-CCITT?
[11:32] <Darkside> the CCITT part specified the starting condition of the CRC alg and the polynomial
[11:32] <Darkside> specifies*
[11:34] <jededu> Ok sort of get that
[11:35] <Upu> I just put full digipeating back on as I've not tested it on this new board
[11:35] <Upu> beacon by RF works
[11:38] Action: amell is looking forward to seeing two Bs cruising over NY state. Fingers crossed.
[11:38] <Upu> 2014-07-25 11:38:03.061 M0UPU-1 T M0UPU-9>U3TUQV,M0UPU-1*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1:`wM%l >/`"6o}_#
[11:38] <Upu> yup that seems to work too
[11:39] <mattbrejza> wanna have a drive south to test my igate? :P
[11:39] <Upu> Well coming down to London on the train soon
[11:39] <mattbrejza> im getting stuff repeated from coventry so seems you wouldnt have to come too far
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[11:40] <craag> that's impressive
[11:41] <gonzo_> I put up another colinear a few days ago. So if we come up with a hab-aprs standard, I'll set one up
[11:41] <astrobiologist> newbie questions: what is difference between digipeaters and igates?
[11:41] <Upu> igate bounces it to the internet
[11:41] <Upu> digipeater retransmits the packet via RF
[11:41] <pd3t> Darkside: 3.5 mil people in the surrounding here
[11:42] <Darkside> pd3t: :P
[11:42] <Darkside> pd3t: i didnt say it was a *lot* of peopl :P
[11:42] <astrobiologist> that is pretty much as I thought, but then what do individual stations do? do we repeat it to anybody else?
[11:42] <pd3t> 3.5 mil isn't either ;)
[11:42] <Upu> just transmit generally
[11:43] <pd3t> Maxell: problem is the damn fees you have to pay for the atof
[11:43] <Maxell> pd3t: yeah just crazy
[11:43] <gonzo_> 60M locally here. As the UK is so small, that counts as local
[11:44] <Maxell> for packet network.... if you do something stupid eveyone will hate you so better not break it :P
[11:44] <Maxell> "self regulating"?
[11:44] <astrobiologist> so - individual stations don't repeat the packets they receive? in which case you have to be near, and be heard by, a digipeater for your packets to get any further?
[11:45] <gonzo_> self regulation means a load of moany old men trying to play god
[11:45] <pd3t> astrobiologist: when the station is setup to digipeat it can.
[11:45] <gonzo_> and corming committies
[11:46] <pd3t> in our surrounding it's useless cos when i hear it in my car there will be enough digipeaters in the surroundings that will hear it. Besides that NL is flat as table surface ;)
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[11:50] <Maxell> pd3t: does your car also wait for it to hear other digis first or does it just shoot asap?
[11:52] <Laurenceb_> http://andybrown.me.uk/wk/2014/05/11/awreflow/
[11:52] <Maxell> pd3t: aprx has this kind of digi - Viscous Digipeater might help
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[11:53] <Maxell> but yeah pi1dft is too high/too much range
[11:53] <Maxell> portable 2m is a no go
[11:53] Action: Maxell should put more time in getting 70cm aprs better in The Hague
[11:54] <craag> I ran aprx as viscous digi on a pi in my car for a while - that worked well
[11:55] <pd3t> mine waits untill the frequency it free
[11:55] <craag> repeated one packet I remember from a car on the opposite carriageway :)
[11:55] <pd3t> as in closed squelch
[11:56] <Maxell> heheh websdr igate PD1ODE-1. RevSpace 70cm igate to keep the hab rtl-sdr up to temprature PD1ODE-2 -- igate at home PD1ODE-10
[11:56] <pd3t> Maxell: i wonder what the coverage will be on a 70cm aprs digi in the region
[11:56] <astrobiologist> I emailed pocketpacket to ask if it's a digipeater
[11:56] <Maxell> pd3t: Rijswijk is closer but 70cm and not as high as pi1dft
[11:56] <Maxell> and less tropo
[11:57] <Maxell> HI Last status: DX: PE4CE 5.1km 288° 10:57 5204.68N 00417.84E
[11:57] <pd3t> what happens when we put up a digi in rijswijk at a decent height will it cover thehague and surroundings?
[11:57] <astrobiologist> my handheld can be set to transmit on vox regardless or only when the channel is free
[11:58] <astrobiologist> presumably latter is better?
[11:58] <craag> yep latter
[11:58] <pd3t> regardless << that's bad ;)
[11:58] <craag> if you tx at the same time as someone else - it is likely neither of you will get through
[11:58] <pd3t> indeed
[11:58] <Maxell> pd3t: wel already have that for 70cm :P
[11:58] <Maxell> 13:45 PI1RWK>APMI01,WIDE2-2,qAR,PD1ODE-2:@251234z5202.14N/00418.80Er PI1RWK info www.pi2dft.nl
[11:58] <Maxell> 13:50 PI1RWK>APMI01,WIDE2-2,qAR,PD2ATG-2:@251239z5202.14N/00418.80Er PI1RWK 70cm APRS Digipeater Rijswijk
[11:58] <Maxell> 13:55 PI1RWK>APMI01,WIDE2-2,qAR,PD3ADN:@251244z5202.14N/00418.80Er PI1RWK info www.pi2dft.nl
[11:58] <Maxell> with *sufccient* igate coverage
[11:59] <pd3t> so what's the problem?
[11:59] <Maxell> no one is using it so not as much fun :P
[11:59] <pd3t> i can easily switch my radio to 70cm
[12:00] <Maxell> then go for 70cm in The Hague higher chance of getting your packets trough
[12:00] <pd3t> i have no problem with the packets not coming true
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[12:02] <Maxell> you can increase packet rate at 70cm because no one is using it :P
[12:02] <Maxell> heck, even evey 10 seconds wont hurt
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[12:04] <pd3t> my mobile has the nice feature of just sending packets when needed ;)
[12:04] <pd3t> direction/speed changes
[12:05] <Darkside> smartbeaconing
[12:05] <pd3t> as i drive on cruise control a lot it won't update much ;)
[12:05] <pd3t> indeed @ Darkside
[12:05] <Darkside> yeah i have the same problem haha
[12:06] <pd3t> Kenwood TM-D710G is a nice radio.. No comments yet.
[12:06] <Darkside> you have one?
[12:06] <pd3t> yep
[12:06] <Darkside> i hav a few friends with the TM-D710A
[12:06] <Darkside> im considering putting a TM-D710G in my car
[12:06] <pd3t> build in gps locks very rapidly
[12:06] <Maxell> pd3t: cruise control wont help... As soon as I drive over 65 km/h it starts beaconing at a fixed rate
[12:06] <Darkside> but nobody has stock yet
[12:07] <Maxell> pd3t: true
[12:07] <Maxell> however with my 5 watts on 2 meter baofeng smartbeaconing tentds to leave some huge holes in downtown the hague
[12:07] <Maxell> miss one smartbeacon all of the router weird
[12:07] <pd3t> i bought mine in germany as pricing was really good at that time.... Summer sale
[12:08] <Darkside> pd3t: mmk
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[12:08] <Darkside> pd3t: i'd like to put a bluetooth module off the sid of it
[12:08] <Darkside> side*
[12:08] <pd3t> http://wimo.de/kenwood-tm-d710e-mobile-radio_e.html
[12:08] <pd3t> bluetooth for?.
[12:09] <Darkside> TNC to phone or laptop
[12:09] <Maxell> aprsdroid :D
[12:09] <Darkside> so i can send stuff to ARISS or whatever
[12:09] <pd3t> lol
[12:09] <Maxell> but yeah yaesu 897 too big for car :P
[12:09] <pd3t> i'm in my car to drive no time to play with laptops/phones
[12:10] <Maxell> true
[12:10] <Darkside> this is more for when i'm stopped :P
[12:10] <pd3t> the data conn is in the control unit
[12:10] <Darkside> yeah
[12:10] <pd3t> when i'm doing that i just plugin a cable
[12:10] <Darkside> which will be either under my seat, or more likely in the boot of my car
[12:11] <Darkside> true
[12:11] <pd3t> control unit is what the display holds
[12:11] <pd3t> the radio is in the boot or underneath the seat
[12:12] <Darkside> oh
[12:12] <pd3t> an extra + is that the mic has a separate connection
[12:12] <Darkside> i think theres a COM port on the main radio unit though
[12:12] <pd3t> lemmi check that ;)
[12:12] <pd3t> brb
[12:16] <pd3t> You're right Darkside
[12:16] <pd3t> on the conrtol unit there's a com connection
[12:16] <Darkside> you could have just looked at the manual :P
[12:17] <Maxell> For the time being the baofeng uv-b5 will be suffcient being stroke mobile
[12:17] <pd3t> yeah hmmm lemmi think where i left that ;)
[12:17] <Maxell> and at home the yaesu for 2 meter and 70cm
[12:17] <Darkside> pd3t: its onlin
[12:17] <Darkside> online*
[12:17] <pd3t> was easier to just walk outside the front door.
[12:17] <Darkside> :P
[12:19] <Maxell> pd3t: marcel__ will be doing payload tests today near Den Haag Centraal... We might even pick up something at RevSpace :)
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[12:27] <pd3t> Maxell: which freq?
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[12:36] <astrobiologist> I'm sending packets every 30s, narrowband fm, on the a303 towards Exeter, about 35 miles nnw
[12:36] <astrobiologist> but I'm not hearing anybody else's packets
[12:49] <GW8RAK> There're not many stations down that way according to APRS.fi
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[12:53] <astrobiologist> GW8RAK: the weaklink is the digipeaters
[12:57] <pd3t> astrobiologist: you are doing wide2-1?.
[12:58] <Maxell> pd3t: rond 434.6 MHz
[12:58] <astrobiologist> pd3t: WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1
[12:58] <pd3t> hmm
[12:59] <pd3t> WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 might help as the digis themselves already need a hop to make it to the internet
[13:00] <astrobiologist> pd3t: I have to profess, I don't really understand what the WIDE n-n opportunities mean
[13:00] <pd3t> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Paths
[13:00] <pd3t> WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 :Two hops in all directions with potential to use fill-in digis
[13:01] <pd3t> WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 :Three hops in all directions, with potential to use fill-in digis.. << read the comment on the link above
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> What proportion of recievers are not hooked up to the internet for 'backhaul' ?
[13:04] <pd3t> Generic WIDEn-n
[13:04] <pd3t> Unproto Example -> APRS,WIDE7-7
[13:05] <pd3t> 1st Digi -> APRS,M0AAA*,WIDE7-6
[13:05] <pd3t> 2nd Digi -> APRS,M0AAA*,M0BBB*,WIDE7-5
[13:05] <pd3t> 3rd Digi -> APRS,M0AAA*,M0BBB*,M0CCC*,WIDE7-4
[13:05] <Maxell> helpl!1
[13:05] <pd3t> etc etc
[13:05] <Maxell> noes wide7-7
[13:05] <astrobiologist> trying WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 now
[13:05] <pd3t> that's an example..
[13:05] <pd3t> do not actually use that ;) WIDE7-7 <<
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[13:06] <pd3t> astrobiologist: still on the A303?
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[13:07] <astrobiologist> pd3t: yes
[13:07] <astrobiologist> passing through honiton
[13:08] <pd3t> you should here G1PLT
[13:08] <pd3t> *hear
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> what does "unproto" mean?
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> and why people call position a "posit"?
[13:09] <gonzo_> not connected, broadcast packet
[13:10] <pd3t> LeoBodnar: http://www.apritch.myby.co.uk/unproto.htm
[13:10] <gonzo_> also refered to as unprotocol information, or UI
[13:10] <gonzo_> that caused be no end of issuew when I started dealing with PC applications
[13:10] <astrobiologist> got a packet from M0NDE... why does that sound familiar?
[13:11] <pd3t> sec
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[13:11] <LeoBodnar> as if APRS wasn't a mess all these gibberish terms the people keep repeating as if they sound cool
[13:11] <astrobiologist> no packets from G1PLT
[13:11] <mikestir-work> posit=baby sick?
[13:11] <LeoBodnar> what's "posit"?
[13:12] <pd3t> M0NDE Raspberry Pi-gate > Burnham-on-sea
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> i can feel bruninga madness behind it all
[13:12] <gonzo_> a mis-spelt yello sticky note?
[13:12] <pd3t> plt is mucho closer to you
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[13:16] <pd3t> 45/IO80GR G1PLT Exeter {UIV23}
[13:16] <pd3t> No stations have been heard except via a digipeater.
[13:16] <pd3t> power 25W, antenna HAAT 6 m, gain 4 dBi 90°,
[13:16] <pd3t> range 13.6 km
[13:17] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, aprs is a mess
[13:17] <jcoxon> that said a useful mess
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[13:17] <astrobiologist> G1PLT has had the same status for some time... grrrr... I'm right on top of him/her!
[13:17] <LeoBodnar> it's brilliant wonderfull mess
[13:17] <astrobiologist> my tx must be poor... but then it's just a rubber duck at 5w... but I have heard some other packets so why not G1PLT's?
[13:18] <pd3t> no clue maybe it's turned off?
[13:18] <craag> astrobiologist: An antenna inside the car isn't going to do very well
[13:18] <pd3t> last packet 6 min ago
[13:18] <astrobiologist> unless the LOS is really bad
[13:18] <astrobiologist> craag: I know but the magmount didn't turn up in time :-)
[13:19] <craag> aprs coverage on motorways I've noticed isn't great
[13:19] <craag> M3 is the best covered I've come across
[13:20] <astrobiologist> I have heard a few other packets... will just keep listening and tx'ing, set it up better when I reach my destination. but sooo close to G1PLT, it's maddening!
[13:23] <mikestir-work> I find the performance of my igate is way worse than you'd expect given the sort of range I get on 2m phone
[13:23] <mikestir-work> makes me wonder if 1200 baud AFSK just doesn't work that well
[13:24] <gonzo_> The traditional TNC modems are not that great
[13:24] <gonzo_> and a lot of variability in the setup of statiosn
[13:24] <craag> phone can put up with flutter, aprs can't
[13:24] <craag> then there's the fact that most people don't look at their audio drive level
[13:25] <gonzo_> the latter probably accounts for a lot of it
[13:26] <craag> yep, I've heard audio-clipped beacons
[13:26] <gonzo_> hardware TNCs had a calibration routine, that you could send separate high and loiw tones, and tweak the balance for the radio you have
[13:26] <mikestir-work> would be nice to develop something more modern
[13:27] <gonzo_> sens a 101010101 for you to adjust the drive
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[13:27] <astrobiologist> I don't know how high, or low, my audio is
[13:27] <gonzo_> when your new radio appears, you can listen on air and compare to known good statsions.
[13:28] <craag> gonzo_: That would be perfect, I've also used the eye diagram display on another rx in ax25-utils
[13:28] <astrobiologist> I suspect it is not too bad, since if I turn the volume of my ipad down much below about 75%, the vox won't open on the handheld
[13:28] <gonzo_> that used to be the node stations. As they were assumed to have set up correctlky
[13:28] <craag> heh, nice assumption ;)
[13:28] <gonzo_> usually they were. not sure now
[13:28] <craag> mikestir-work: Something based on matt's turbohab perhaps..
[13:29] <JFS1> I'm attempting to test my new tracker JFS2. Can't see problems in the parser logtail but it's not on spacenear.us - any idea why?
[13:29] <craag> of at least the packet structure/fec part
[13:29] <craag> JFS1: "_fix_invalid": true,
[13:30] <craag> Have you told habitat how to tell if it's got a gps lock?
[13:30] <gonzo_> ah yes, the old tncs had a moden output for the eye pattern. The PK232 had a specific port if I recall
[13:30] <daveake> About time I set up an APRS iGate here, especially as I'm on a hill with LOS for 25 miles west
[13:30] <gonzo_> I gave my PK232 away only a few months ago. A friend was setting up some kit for the local cadets to use data on hd
[13:30] <gonzo_> hf
[13:31] <craag> daveake: Are there any people west of you?...
[13:31] <daveake> No just sheep
[13:31] <gonzo_> (ax25 300bd on HF, those were the days!)
[13:31] <JFS1> Thanks for that - will have a look later and get back on irc if still stuck.
[13:31] <daveake> But sheep need tracking :/
[13:31] <craag> Heh
[13:31] <gonzo_> Bah
[13:31] <craag> bah-prs
[13:31] <daveake> My Baofeng is picking up 1-2 packets per minute
[13:32] <gonzo_> sheep?
[13:32] <daveake> I thought I'd check those are packets by listening to some examples, so I found a YT video with some, and in the comments I see ... "Boneheads that run lame paths should be courteously contacted and educated"
[13:32] <gonzo_> just trying to pull the wool over your eyes
[13:32] <daveake> :)
[13:32] <craag> html5 websdr now sits on aprs by default ;)
[13:33] <craag> I believe Maxell igates it
[13:33] <db_g6gzh> I'm currently West of daveake (passed by Ross on the way here)
[13:33] <daveake> wow. Is anyone else there?
[13:34] <db_g6gzh> about 30 random geeks
[13:34] <gonzo_> just some supprised sheep
[13:34] <daveake> If you climb to the top of Pen y Gader-fawr I might be able to see you :/
[13:34] <LeoBodnar> gonzo_: is HF APRS still going ?
[13:34] <gonzo_> polica and rspca
[13:34] <gonzo_> I hope not!
[13:34] <db_g6gzh> http://lbw2014.xn--vdaa.be/
[13:35] <gonzo_> hf was used as backhaul to trunk the mail around,. and they used sats
[13:36] <gonzo_> never heard of hf being used for aprs though?
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[13:38] <craag> Yeah there's 300 baud version of APRS on several HF bands
[13:39] <craag> It's identical setup to VHF, just SSB and lower baudrate afaik
[13:39] <LeoBodnar> yep
[13:40] <LeoBodnar> the question is it running unattended or needs prodding and chasing
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[13:40] <Laurenceb_> but baud seems high
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[13:40] <LeoBodnar> there is also PSK31 variety
[13:40] <craag> yeah I tried it once and the frequency was jam-packed with home beacons
[13:40] <craag> put out a few of my own but didn't get anywhere
[13:40] <gonzo_> I think the original hf packet used 300bd, and different tones. And ran on ssb, so was essecially FSK
[13:41] <LeoBodnar> it is still
[13:41] <gonzo_> but the slow rate on the long packet and nofec, it was dire
[13:41] <craag> Yep, jsut with aprs packets over it
[13:41] <LeoBodnar> i wonder if they can be filtered out on aprs.fi
[13:41] <gonzo_> but it sort of worked when there was nowt else avail
[13:42] <LeoBodnar> no path that's for sure
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> Moose Jaw ?!
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> sounds like a medical condition
[13:47] <daveake> Sounds like a job for the National Elk Service
[13:47] <Maxell> craag: yeah plan is to get something running 24/7 via the websocket might even do ISS aprs 24/7
[13:47] <Maxell> hehe and the leo aprs
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[13:48] <N2NXZ> Has anyone determined how long an Arduino uno tracker will operate on a specific battery configuration?
[13:48] <craag> Maxell: If you get a websocket script running, please send me a copy :)
[13:49] <astrobiologist> The G1PLT digipeater station in Exeter is a bit strange, there are zero packets in its log on aprs.fi
[13:49] <craag> Also I may ask for screenshots for my ukhas conf talk at some point..
[13:50] <Maxell> craag: yes I might even go as far to split into a separate websdr command line tool
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[13:50] <astrobiologist> all my gadgets are running low on battery so I'll say my goodbyes for now. FYI I have turned off my screen and 3G connection on the ipad but it is still squawking a packet every 30 secs - will be interesting to see how long it lasts in such a "hibernation mode"
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[13:51] <lz1dev> http://cadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/voltaic2.jpg
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[13:52] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/110684_trj001.gif
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> 5 days to uk
[13:54] <Laurenceb_> an 8% chance of heading off south
[13:55] <N2NXZ> Hope it comes over me!!
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[13:58] <SpeedEvil> that's 63?
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> 64
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[14:08] <LeoBodnar> Many Island Lake
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> Bigstick Lake
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> wher's VHF Lake?
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[14:16] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/111963_trj001.gif
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> ^B-63
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[14:16] <Laurenceb_> should appear in the next 6 hours
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[14:18] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/112066_trj001.gif
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> into Saskatchewan
[14:22] <daveake> We need to get arko to take APRS receiving kit onto the plane when he comes over to the UK soon :)
[14:24] <gonzo_> getting vhf through a plane window will be more difficulot than uhf
[14:24] <gonzo_> getting below 1/4 wave
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[14:25] <craag> LOS though. And hopefully not *too* much noise inside the faraday cage.
[14:25] <daveake> silly physics
[14:25] <daveake> good physics
[14:25] <gonzo_> line of sight, or los of signal?
[14:25] <gonzo_> loss
[14:25] <craag> line of sight
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> aircraft is a big slot antenna
[14:26] <daveake> loss of structure lately
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> lack of sleep?
[14:26] <gonzo_> if there are long enough gpas between rivets
[14:26] <daveake> It's really difficult to get a GPS lock through a plane window
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[14:26] <gonzo_> leave off sheep
[14:26] <lz1dev> near impossible to get gps lock in plane
[14:27] <craag> Work well up against the window though :)
[14:27] <lz1dev> assuming the chip actually allows it
[14:27] <craag> I have a screen shot somewhere...
[14:27] <craag> lock time with sub-10s too
[14:27] <craag> *was
[14:27] <gonzo_> managed it recentlky. Though lock was gotten whilst taxiing
[14:27] <lz1dev> craag: what did you use?
[14:28] <craag> lz1dev: my phone, 2 generation-old qualcomm gps
[14:28] <lz1dev> i've tried 4 different smart phones and nothing :(
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> lol ELKPNT
[14:31] <craag> got it
[14:31] <craag> one mo
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> nice callsign
[14:32] <craag> lz1dev: http://i.imgur.com/5aqYpJ7.png
[14:34] <lz1dev> altitude in meters
[14:34] <lz1dev> speed in miles
[14:34] <lz1dev> please
[14:35] <craag> heh
[14:35] <ulfr> blasphemy!
[14:35] <craag> that's how my english-technical brain works :P
[14:40] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=13&call=i%2F244670142&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[14:40] <LeoBodnar> craft type: "Pleasure"
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:43] <gonzo_> and eng drawings in thou
[14:45] <adamgreig> my problem is calling thous mils and calling mm mils too
[14:45] <adamgreig> people I'm talking to have to guess based on the value
[14:45] <adamgreig> stupid americans
[14:45] <adamgreig> :P
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[14:50] <craag> Confused the heck out of me in eagle
[14:50] <craag> I was *very* sure that wasn't the length of a mm
[14:50] <gonzo_> I work in both, as most of my machine shop is imperial
[14:50] <craag> googled 'mils' and found out...
[14:50] <craag> never come across it before
[14:51] <craag> I've heard people refer to it as thou's
[14:52] <adamgreig> thous is typical british english, mils american, as I imagine you gathered
[14:52] <adamgreig> these days I've swapped all my pcb stuff to metric really
[14:52] <adamgreig> for some reason I like my schematic editor in imperial though >_>
[14:52] <adamgreig> I want 0.1" long pins on my schematic parts, dammit!
[14:52] <adamgreig> using surface mount helps because things no longer lie so clearly on a 0.1" grid
[14:52] <gonzo_> I suppose that days of layoputs being in 10ths of inch went with DIL
[14:53] <adamgreig> should swap to calling my packages by the metric version though :P
[14:53] <gonzo_> snap
[14:53] <lz1dev> reading wikipedia about mils
[14:53] <lz1dev> such an arbitrary unit
[14:53] <adamgreig> I do enjoy the idea of splitting an inch into a power-of-ten
[14:53] <adamgreig> like, haha take that imperial
[14:53] <craag> lol
[14:53] <adamgreig> but I think it will be a while before I call 0603s "1608"
[14:53] <mikestir-work> it's even better that the americans went with "milli-inch"
[14:54] <mikestir-work> which is like some kind of hybrid metric/imperial name
[14:54] <adamgreig> exactly :D
[14:54] <gonzo_> I have to have a lookup chart for thou to 64ths to mm
[14:54] <lz1dev> so easy to convert feet to mils
[14:54] <mikestir-work> how many mils in a furlong?
[14:55] <lz1dev> that is the question
[14:55] <adamgreig> how many furlongs in a chain tho
[14:55] <gonzo_> 15 horses
[14:55] <adamgreig> one fortnight-pound
[14:55] <daveake> This is out of my league
[14:55] <daveake> I can't fathom it at all
[14:55] <gonzo_> banannas per square ironiong board
[14:55] <gonzo_> it's a weight subject
[14:55] <gonzo_> y
[14:56] <lz1dev> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system
[14:56] <ulfr> lol
[14:56] <mikestir-work> it's certainly a knotty subject
[14:56] <lz1dev> nanofortnights
[14:56] <gonzo_> but we are incling our way through it
[14:56] <gonzo_> inching
[14:56] <daveake> Apparently 6 inches is also a "shaftment"
[14:56] <gonzo_> (bloody vnc lag)
[14:56] <amell> leobodnar: is the transpacific log backlog definately gone?
[14:57] <daveake> Wow. So English shoe sizes are based on the "barleycorn" unit
[14:58] <daveake> Learn something new every dat
[14:58] <daveake> y
[14:58] <mikestir-work> the question is, is a firkin of beer actually a firkin these days, or is it 40 litres or something?
[14:59] <amell> mikestir-work: youve got to be firkin joking.
[14:59] <gonzo_> the weight unit of the grain is still common
[15:00] <gonzo_> bullet and gunpowder weights are all measured in grains
[15:00] <lz1dev> how many grains is a lump ?
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[15:15] <DL1SGP> good day all
[15:16] <DL7AD_mobile> Hi
[15:16] <DL1SGP> Moin Sven
[15:16] <DL7AD_mobile> Ahoi
[15:17] <DL7AD_mobile> Sitz grad boch in der sbahn
[15:18] <DL1SGP> ich kaufe gleich versorgung für morgen :)
[15:18] <DL7AD_mobile> Was machste denn da?
[15:19] <DL7AD_mobile> Also morgen
[15:19] <DL1SGP> Wir haben morgen Ballon Doppelstart
[15:19] <DL1SGP> und ich bin suchteam :)
[15:19] <DL7AD_mobile> Hey cool
[15:19] <DL1SGP> info ist auch auf der mailing list wenn du später reinschaust
[15:19] <DL7AD_mobile> Wie heißt der bsllon?
[15:20] <DL7AD_mobile> Ehm
[15:20] <DL7AD_mobile> Hab die nicht abbonoeet
[15:20] <DL7AD_mobile> Abboniert
[15:20] <DL1SGP> DL0CN-11 und DF0XX-11, Startzeit 10 Uhr und 12 Uhr, Sprachbake 145,200 MHz und APRS auf 144,800
[15:21] <DL7AD_mobile> Und 70cm?
[15:21] <DL1SGP> kein 70cm
[15:22] <DL7AD_mobile> Pfff ^^wer denkt sich denn sowas aus ^^
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[15:22] <DL1SGP> warum sollten wir 70cm verwenden lach, naja bin erstmal weg
[15:22] <DL1SGP> bis gleich
[15:23] <DL7AD_mobile> Jup
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[15:46] <DutchMillbt> Maxell in the house?
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[15:48] <molo> hi. can anyone recommend a decent writeup on picoballoon payloads? transmitter module, mode and frequency agility, gps module, geofencing..
[15:50] <DutchMillbt> Hi molo : http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[15:51] <molo> DutchMillbt: thank you, reading now.
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[16:18] <DutchMillbt> Maxell in the house?
[16:22] <molo> DutchMillbt: thanks for the writeup. I'm confused about the transmitter used however. The NTX2 is a NBFM transmitter, but the writeup says you need a SSB radio to receive. Can you clairfy?
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[16:28] <DutchMillbt> molo more @ : http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=617
[16:29] <molo> DutchMillbt: well hot damn
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[16:32] <DutchMillbt> Maxell are you testing a payload at the moment....recieving one over radiopath : $$$$$CHANGEME,411,16:20:58,52.080888,4.326413,114,7,23,176,08*44F7
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[16:33] <craag> Looks like a habduino
[16:34] <LeoBodnar> lol
[16:35] <molo> LeoBodnar: congrats on the trans-pacific flights
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> ta!
[16:35] <molo> very exciting
[16:35] <DutchMillbt> The location is a high tower in the center off The Hague
[16:35] <molo> i would be interested in any details you plan to publish.
[16:36] <DutchMillbt> Yep Leo well done!
[16:38] <molo> i'm particularly curious how you got it to transmit aprs on 3 different frequencies.. 144.800 for europe, 144.660 for japan, 144.390 for north america.
[16:39] <molo> 3 different transmitter modules?
[16:39] <adamgreig> it also transmits on 434MHz ;)
[16:39] <molo> yes.. so 4 total
[16:39] <adamgreig> have you heard of variable frequency oscillators?
[16:39] <craag> One transmitter, si4063
[16:40] <molo> craag: thank you, reading now
[16:41] <molo> adamgreig: yes. I am a ham. wasn't sure whether this was a ground-up vfo implementation though, becuase they are usually a lot of components ( = heavy )
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/116896_trj001.gif
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> boo loops
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> it might change again
[16:46] <mattbrejza> tahts in range of the azores though?
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> wait wtf
[16:46] <Laurenceb_> wrong time fail
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/116935_trj001.gif
[16:47] <mattbrejza> so if it continues straight in the next couple of hours we are good
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> yes
[16:48] <mattbrejza> whats the difference between the paths?
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> altitudes and FEA model vertex to vertex jumps
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> or something like that
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> its a crude error estimation thingy
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah there is aprs over the azores, so it could catch that on the southern route
[16:51] <mattbrejza> ok
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/116981_trj001.gif
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> we want to be aimed for the lake
[16:51] <mattbrejza> winds are sloooow
[16:52] <mattbrejza> hopefully winter will be more interesting
[16:52] <mattbrejza> although not sure if they get stronger at this altitude
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> current track is bottom of lake Winnipeg, ok so far
[16:59] Nick change: madiz -> madist
[16:59] <Ian_> molo: on the NTX2B changing the voltage on the transmit (modulation) pin alters the frequency of the transmitter slightly, so if you were to put a suitable audio frequency on the pin you would have \
[17:00] <Ian_> pretty much a standard FM signal. The HAB community impress one of two voltages and so the transmitter radiates at one or other (sometimes more for MFSK) frequency, |
[17:01] <molo> Ian_: yes, thanks. I didn't realize domoinoex was fsk.
[17:01] <molo> but that makes a lot of sense
[17:02] <Ian_> received by an FM transmitter it would at best be clicks. A SSB transmitter allows translation of the frequency difference between the incoming instantaneous frequency and a carrier insertion oscillator to produce two (or more) distinct audio signals. Much as the BFO does for Morse.
[17:03] <Ian_> End (ain't you glad!)
[17:04] <molo> good stuff
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[17:23] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/mMZh5dl.jpg
[17:23] <arko> pretty
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> what from?
[17:32] <arko> space
[17:33] <YO9ICT> Anyone has the link to the altitude vs freelift chart please?
[17:33] <lz1dev> ISS probably
[17:33] <arko> not bs space, real space
[17:33] <lz1dev> space space?
[17:33] <arko> https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasamarshall/14629846765/
[17:33] <arko> ISS
[17:34] <arko> space space :)
[17:34] <arko> we only send stuff to nearspace ;)
[17:34] Action: arko jimmies get russled when he sees articles like Students send [object] into space for only
[17:35] <arko> $200*
[17:35] <lz1dev> people at nasa are probably pulling their hair out
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[17:35] <arko> :(
[17:36] <arko> lz1dev: lol
[17:36] <arko> !g
[17:39] <YO9ICT> Can someone give me some advices on free lift?
[17:40] <arko> sure?
[17:41] <YO9ICT> I have a 80 cm foil fully inflated and a 27 g payload. So far the freelift is 15 g
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[17:41] <YO9ICT> I think in this conditions it will burst at 1 km alt
[17:41] <arko> wow!
[17:41] <arko> 15g freelift is a lot
[17:42] <YO9ICT> I want to take out some He to compensate for the lower pressure
[17:42] <arko> you need to be like <5g at least
[17:42] <YO9ICT> I don't want to make it float
[17:42] <arko> oh
[17:42] <YO9ICT> Just to pop at a minimum 5 km
[17:42] <YO9ICT> Any advice?
[17:43] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[17:43] <lz1dev> if(altitude > 5000) activate_pin_to_balloon_mechanism();
[17:43] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:burst3.xls this excel should help
[17:43] <maxmed> Hi, when using the TinyGPS library I see you can use commands like: "gps.f_get_position(&flat, &flon , &fix_age);" to get the lat, long and fix_age, can i miss out the &fix_age if I'm not using it (ie. gps.f_get_position(&flat, &flon); ) or will this mess up the function?
[17:44] <YO9ICT> lz1dev, that would be very nice. unfortunately that kind of system is not implemented
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[17:44] <arko> YO9ICT: i'd recommend playing with that excel calculator
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[17:45] <arko> probably the best tool you can use to determine burst alt
[17:45] <YO9ICT> I'm trying now
[17:45] <arko> and what free lift you would need
[17:45] <OZ1SKY_5B> Hi, are there any longterm predictions for B63/64?
[17:45] <arko> which balloon is this YO9ICT?
[17:45] <arko> 36" mylar?
[17:46] <YO9ICT> i think 32" foil
[17:46] <arko> ah ok, i see, 80cm right
[17:46] <YO9ICT> rounded foil
[17:46] <arko> yeah 15g will not float at all
[17:47] <arko> you're guaranteed a burst before 5000km pretty much (guess)
[17:47] <arko> but the excel should confirm
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[17:49] <YO9ICT> How to calc the volume of such shape?
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[17:50] <arko> maths
[17:50] <arko> :)
[17:51] <YO9ICT> Yea, but it's not sphere:)
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[17:51] <YO9ICT> Anyway, the excel is useless because one input parameter has predetermined values that doesn't match mine
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:52] <arko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mylar_balloon_%28geometry%29
[17:52] <arko> google is your friend
[17:52] <arko> which parameter?
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> yay Saskatchewan :D
[17:53] <YO9ICT> Balloon (g)
[17:54] <maxmed> when sending gps data, for the time is it recomended to have the " : " ie hh:mm:ss as opposed to hhmmss ?
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[17:59] <Ian_> maxmed: if you do not feed the function properly, then it may die on you. &variable indicates passing by reference and so the variable in the call will be changed on on function exit, so if the function doesn't actually use the value give it a dummy variable that you can ignore. If the function uses it, give it a dummy variable with a suitably initiated value and ignore it on return. Is this clear?
[17:59] <Ian_> I am not familiar with the TinyGps library and so am speaking fairly generally.
[18:01] <YO9ICT> arko : If you remember , I think Leo had a graph with altitude vs free lift, but I cannot find the URL
[18:01] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[18:01] <arko> thats here
[18:01] <arko> scroll to the bottom
[18:01] <arko> i could swear there was a mylar excel sheet...
[18:03] <Ian_> maxmed: Parser Logtail suggests that people include the colons.
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[18:04] <arko> ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:float1b.xls
[18:05] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:float1b.xls
[18:05] <arko> there we go
[18:05] <arko> thanks google :P
[18:05] <arko> filetype:xls site:http://ukhas.org.uk float
[18:05] <arko> did the trick
[18:05] <arko> YO9ICT: ^ that excel should help
[18:07] <arko> good luck
[18:07] <maxmed> Ian_ ok I'll leave it as it is and include the colons. I just wanted to try and keep the code as simple and easy to understand as possible so wanted to try to eliminate all unneccesarry variables.
[18:09] <maxmed> Does anyone know if with the TinyGPS library if you are using the function gps.crack_datetime if you also need to include gps.get_datetime?
[18:09] <YO9ICT> arko : ok, that is good
[18:10] <YO9ICT> let's see...
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[18:14] Nick change: jaymzx_away -> jaymzx
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[18:25] <LeoBodnar> i can see the Blighty [18:23] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/mMZh5dl.jpg
[18:26] <arko> really?
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[18:27] <mattbrejza> its under the cloud
[18:27] <mattbrejza> where else :P
[18:27] <arko> HAHAHA
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> top left corner a dark streak
[18:27] <arko> wow how did i miss that obvious joke
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[18:33] <LeoBodnar> c'mon NOAA, why is GFS05 36 hours behind?
[18:34] <arko> "Hey jim, i bet this Leo guy is pretty upset we haven't released the new GFS"
[18:34] <arko> "lol yeah, im bored"
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[18:35] <LeoBodnar> who needs new GFS05 on Friday night?
[18:37] <lz1dev> antisocial meteoroloists?
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> NAM dataset yo! http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/120098_trj001.gif
[18:43] <jededu> Flight tomorrow at around 10:00 from Birmingham 15,000Mtrs Cutdown 434.525 RTTY 50 8n2
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, well done so far :)
[18:48] <gurgalof> wow, nice floats
[18:49] <LeoBodnar> "The balloon is evidently flatter at the axis of rotation; this point is actually has zero curvature in any direction." what?
[18:49] <arko> lol
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[18:49] <arko> GPSLPSPGSPL mailing list?
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[18:50] <OZ1SKY_5B> arko nice picture, where is that from?
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[18:50] <arko> ISS
[18:51] <OZ1SKY_5B> cool
[18:51] <OZ1SKY_5B> i can "see" my home :-)
[18:51] <arko> :)
[18:51] <LeoBodnar> zero curvature results in infinite stress
[18:55] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL1SGP Hi felix, are you still go for tomorrow?
[18:55] <DL1SGP> yea
[18:55] <OZ1SKY_5B> what time?
[18:55] <OZ1SKY_5B> ish
[18:55] <DL1SGP> 1000 CEST and 1200 CEST
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_5B> two launched or timeframe?
[18:56] <DL1SGP> 2 launches
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_5B> ah ok nice
[18:56] <DL1SGP> DL0CN-11 starts first, followed by DF0XX-11
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_5B> wat type of downlink?
[18:56] <OZ1SKY_5B> what
[18:57] <DL1SGP> APRS and Voice-Beacon, Voice-Beacon will be on 145,200
[18:57] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok. Do you launch from hannover?
[18:57] <DL1SGP> Celle
[18:57] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok
[18:57] <OZ1SKY_5B> too bad i can´t track from here
[18:58] <OZ1SKY_5B> unless it floats .-)
[18:58] <arko> where the heck is B-63?
[18:58] <DL1SGP> it won't float :)
[18:59] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL1SGP ive heard that before
[18:59] <DL1SGP> haha
[18:59] <OZ1SKY_5B> in fact thats what got me here, a launch that won´t float, but did :-)
[19:00] <DL1SGP> I have been looking for a tiny tool to put the (filtered) aprs received through equipment out as a gps signal on a com port, but such software seems to be tricky to get and time is too short to write it myself as I have other things to prepare for the hunt
[19:00] <DL1SGP> I might stream the audio from the voice beacon Brian
[19:00] <OZ1SKY_5B> Apex Alpha
[19:01] <molo> LeoBodnar: do you have a prediction for M0XER-3 ?
[19:01] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok cool, see if i can get it on this crappy connection
[19:01] <jededu> Can somone approve this flight doc please 013834a3f3d0da2509d20a75b5e40493
[19:01] <DL1SGP> will have to check on the streaming side of things later, that has low priority for me right now
[19:01] <OZ1SKY_5B> sure
[19:02] <DL1SGP> wx is quite humid here, I hope it will be less rainy tomorrow
[19:02] <maxmed> is the format identifier for a byte &i ?
[19:02] <OZ1SKY_5B> really, i heard from home, that its hot hot hot
[19:02] <DL1SGP> had 24c with constant rainshowers today Brian
[19:02] <maxmed> oops meant &i
[19:03] <OZ1SKY_5B> ok, its been sunny and about 30c here
[19:03] <molo> maxmed: in what context?
[19:04] <maxmed> if i want to use snprintf of a byte eg. hours
[19:04] <DL1SGP> we should do the launches in 5B land then Brian :)
[19:04] <molo> %d or %u depending on signed or unsigned
[19:04] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL1SGP hehe yeah, had hoped for a flight pass here, but didnt happen.
[19:05] <maxmed> unsigned so %d, thanks
[19:05] <molo> maxmed: no %u
[19:05] <molo> %u for unsigned
[19:06] <DL1SGP> OZ1SKY_5B: had hoped to track from OZ but sickness got me downed hehe, always something keeping us from tracking on holidays
[19:06] <maxmed> oh yeah that makes more sense!
[19:06] <OZ1SKY_5B> could have left the radio on back home, but since the connection is so bad here, i would not have been able to do remote tracking anyway
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi OZ1SKY_5B and DL1SGP
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, got a moment?
[19:07] <OZ1SKY_5B> Hi Lunar
[19:07] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Kevin
[19:07] <jededu> Is it possible to do CRC16_CCITT checksum in basic ?
[19:07] <molo> jededu: why wouldn't it be?
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> yep Lunar_Lander what's up?
[19:09] <jededu> We are trying to impliment it with no success a few have tried and failed
[19:09] <mattbrejza> why wouldnt it be possible? :/
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> it can be done even in excel [20:07] <jededu> Is it possible to do CRC16_CCITT checksum in basic ?
[19:11] <LeoBodnar> i am sure even PICAXE can do it
[19:12] <nigelvh> Summary: You can do it in assembly, so every other language written is possible.
[19:13] <jededu> mmmm thats all thats stopping us if its possible i will persevere
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[19:13] <arko> people write in basic still?
[19:13] <molo> hah
[19:13] <jededu> With lookup tables ?
[19:14] <jededu> I have a complete string with no checksum
[19:15] <arko> wait, crc16 doesnt have a lookup table does it?
[19:15] <arko> i thought it was just bitwise operators and shifts and things
[19:15] <jededu> I think i have seen one maybee im wrong
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> you can do CRC with lookup tabe or without
[19:18] <jededu> We had trouble with bitwise shifting
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[19:19] <mikestir> multiply or divide by 2 instead?
[19:19] <jededu> There is very little info on CRC16 in gw basic
[19:20] <mikestir> http://pastie.org/9420811 <-- here is a verified python version using lookup table
[19:24] <maxmed> what is the format identifier for an unsigned long?
[19:25] <molo> maxmed: %ul
[19:25] <jededu> mikestir thx im having another look at it tomorrow everything else works but the checksum i have to understand first
[19:26] <molo> er
[19:26] <molo> %lu? man sprintf
[19:26] <daveake> Yes %lu
[19:27] <jededu> I get the calcs but coding it mmm
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[19:37] <maxmed> As advised I have re-written my balloon tracking code from scratch but obviously it is still heavily based on the origonal code. The new code is hopefully as simple as possible, it compiles fine and is apparently error free on CPP check. Please could you check if there is anything you would change before I add it to the "radio part"? Code is here: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/commit/96d767f737befcb9c06cb9f3a16640a184
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[19:40] <mikestir> I guess you'll need to use %02u rather than %u to print the time parts, because you want it to add leading zeroes
[19:40] <molo> maxmed: you should check the fix age before you do anything else
[19:41] <mikestir> yes, although that's only because you are wasting time calculating things you then don't use
[19:41] <molo> can also have power implications..
[19:42] <mikestir> sure
[19:42] <molo> which reminds me.. does serial.available() sleep? or fail fast?
[19:42] <molo> er, not sleep
[19:42] <molo> block
[19:42] Action: molo didn't get enough sleep last night
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[19:43] <mikestir> I don't suppose power consumption is a big consideration here (yet)
[19:43] <daveake> serial.available just checks the rx buffer
[19:43] <mikestir> maxmed: one general comment is that you should really declare your variables within the function where they are used
[19:43] <molo> it depends on the intended use
[19:43] <daveake> so it returns immediately
[19:44] <molo> daveake: so the loop will only run once under normal conditions?
[19:45] <daveake> 1 sec I'll look at the code
[19:45] <mikestir> under idle conditions loop() will just fall straight through and be immediately re-invoked
[19:45] <mikestir> it is a busy wait
[19:45] <daveake> In loop() you can do if (serial.avail...) or while (....)
[19:46] <daveake> If there's nothing else in loop() then both have the same result
[19:46] <molo> right, so in a normal setup you only will get one update per second or so and the serial.available() will fail and the loop will exit.
[19:46] <mikestir> daveake: is arduino main just setup(); while (1) { loop(); } ?
[19:46] <daveake> aiui yes
[19:47] <maxmed> mikestir : ok I'll change the format identifiers accordingly, molo: so I could just move the "if (fix_age == TinyGPS::GPS_INVALID_AGE){ " to just after where it gets the time (before the lat and lon) ? mikestir: when you say define within the function could you give an example, I dont fully understand.
[19:47] <daveake> I do the while() thing
[19:47] <daveake> feels better
[19:48] <molo> mikestir: oh, so this is already within an event loop.. nevermind then. still needs a sleep() or yeild() or golowpower() or something in there.
[19:48] <mikestir> maxmed: where you declare all your variables (lines 2 to 7), these are described as having "global scope", because you can access them from any function in the program. As you progress in programming you will find that global scope is something to be avoided
[19:49] <mikestir> because all those variables are only used in loop() you can move the declarations and insert them after line 14
[19:49] <maxmed> ok, so i should define them within the void loop() ?
[19:49] <mikestir> yes
[19:50] <molo> maxmed: right after the get_datetime(), do something like: if (fix_age == TinyGPS::GPS_INVALID_AGE) { snprintf([....]); continue; }
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[19:50] <molo> maxmed: then no need to have the else block
[19:51] <mikestir> molo: it's arduino so all bets are off, but of course if the serial driver is interrupt driven then you could just put a sleep call in at the bottom of loop()
[19:52] <molo> mikestir: yes, that could work, but I don't know the platform that well to say for certain.
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[19:55] <maxmed> molo: Do I not need the else{..} after the if{..} statement even if I move it to prevent it running the rest of the code if there is no gps lock?
[19:55] <molo> maxmed: that is what the continue; statement is for
[19:55] <molo> it starts the loop over
[19:55] <molo> the while() loop
[19:55] <daveake> No need to bet; just read the documentation. Arduino does use serial interrupts
[19:56] <mikestir> you could go to idle mode then. no lower though
[19:57] <maxmed> molo: would it then not skip the "radio stuff" so the snprintf datastring would not be transmitted? I liked the idea of being to receive a message saying there was no gps fix so i knew it was working.
[19:58] <molo> maxmed: ah, sorry, yes, if that is your intent.
[19:59] <maxmed> ok no worries, at least it shows this time I understand my own code! yay!
[19:59] <molo> :)
[20:00] <mfa298> if there's no gps fix what most people will do is retransmit the last good data and have a flag that indicates if the fix is good (set sats=0 if no fix and only treat sats>=4 as having a fix)
[20:00] <mikestir> so the policy to keep all complete tracker code secret does work :)
[20:00] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:00] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
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[20:03] <maxmed> I think my code will continue transmitting the same data if it loses a fix? It should only print the error message at the start before it has got a fix.
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[20:04] <mikestir> does fix_age reflect the time of the last good fix, rather than the current one?
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[20:06] <maxmed> mikestir: that is what I assumed as it has a seperate parameter for the current time. but only guessing!
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[20:11] <marcel_> tested the habduino today. we could receive it easily at 2km distance, with direct line of sight
[20:12] <maxmed> corrected code: https://github.com/Max-Med/New_HAB_Code/blob/master/New_HAB_Code.ino
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[20:12] <mfa298> marcel_: on the ground distance will generally depend on the surroundings. If you've got a good line of sight path you should hear it. If you don't have a good path you wont.
[20:13] <marcel_> yes, we tested 5km with an building in between, and that didn't work
[20:13] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/120828_trj001.gif
[20:13] <Laurenceb> lol inflection point
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[20:21] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/120899_trj001.gif
[20:21] <Laurenceb> B-63 should be appearing
[20:21] Nick change: MichaelC|Away -> MichaelC
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[20:27] <arko> yay
[20:27] <arko> the wait is on
[20:33] <jaymzx> B-64 is kinda stalled around Regina
[20:34] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/120922_trj001.gif
[20:34] <Laurenceb> B-66 may appear
[20:34] <Laurenceb> tonight
[20:34] <arko> heh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-vJ9gVJm0
[20:35] <arko> title said "B-52 droppping..." i immediatly thought of habs
[20:35] <jaymzx> So, do the balloons have cut-downs?
[20:35] <jaymzx> Or I mean manual burst?
[20:35] <jaymzx> So they can be recovered?
[20:36] <arko> they do not
[20:37] <jaymzx> Ah. So we just watch them until they drop?
[20:38] <jaymzx> Also, how do they maintain altitude and not burst where weather balloons shoot right up to 100K and burst?
[20:38] <arko> we often see them get abducted by ufo's
[20:38] <arko> most of them disappear without a trace
[20:38] <DL1SGP> Ufos flown by Ninja-Goats :)
[20:38] <jaymzx> :)
[20:39] <molo> jaymzx: planned bouyancy prevents them from ascending to a bursting altitude
[20:39] <jaymzx> Ah, I see.
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[20:40] <jaymzx> Makes sense. I've done the same stayng in a hospital when I was bored. I ballasted the 'get well soon' balloon with plastic spoons and set it aloft down the hallway. The HVAC carried it around the unit for a few hours
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[20:41] <molo> jaymzx: nice work
[20:41] <molo> how long were you laid up in the hospital?
[20:42] <jaymzx> The other half was. We spent about 8 mos there last year. Long story involving open heart surgery and a stroke. Shit you shouldn't need to deal with at 35.
[20:43] <molo> that's terrible. :( i hope she is better now.
[20:43] <jaymzx> Doing better than she was. Life has improved since pre-admission for sure.
[20:44] <molo> glad to hear that
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[20:50] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: that was marcel_
[20:50] <carl_byr> Awesome leobodnar flight
[20:51] <Maxell> marcel_: DutchMillbt picked up your payload!
[20:51] <carl_byr> I am impressed
[20:52] <carl_byr> he is using qualatex one?
[20:52] <Maxell> marcel_: "18:32:16 < DutchMillbt> Maxell are you testing a payload at the moment....recieving one over radiopath : $$$$$CHANGEME,411,16:20:58,52.080888,4.326413,114,7,23,176,08*44F7"
[20:52] <marcel_> thanks!!!
[20:53] <marcel_> we plan to launch in the weekend of 10-11 august
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[20:53] <Maxell> marcel_: hehe DutchMillbt is in 's-gravenzande :D
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[20:54] <marcel_> We went to 'Zwartepad' in Scheveningen, and to Kijkduin, But on both locations there was no direct line of sight. From the top of the megastores we got a very strong signal though
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[20:55] <Maxell> marcel_: yes it is all about line of sight
[20:55] <Maxell> with los you can do 350+km
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[20:55] <Maxell> marcel_: between the 6th and 10th I will be at eth0:2014 summer in Leeuwarden.
[20:55] <marcel_> it is clear now also what is the problem with the last meters
[20:56] <Maxell> hmm?
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[20:56] <marcel_> difficult to find signal , I mean
[20:57] <Maxell> With line of sight that should not happen
[20:57] <Maxell> suffcient gain?
[20:57] <Maxell> lna gain?
[20:57] <marcel_> I mean, once it has landed
[20:58] <Maxell> oh, yes. you well have to get as close as you can
[20:58] <Maxell> as soon as it dips between houses it is gone
[20:59] <marcel_> we'll see. will be fun. and we have the backup tracker
[20:59] <Maxell> yes, good!
[20:59] <Maxell> I will be able to track from revspace
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[20:59] <marcel_> nice
[20:59] <Maxell> remote acces :)
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[21:00] <Maxell> how high up are you at 52.080888,4.326413?
[21:01] <marcel_> about 60 m
[21:01] <Maxell> holy!11
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[21:01] <Maxell> thats crazy!
[21:01] <marcel_> good for testing
[21:01] <Maxell> there I am... Setting up my antenna getting up higher evey cm
[21:02] <Maxell> must.live.there
[21:02] <Maxell> so.much.antenna
[21:02] <marcel_> well, I can't see revspace, wrong side of the building
[21:02] <marcel_> I can see the sea though
[21:03] <Maxell> Yeah, but 70cm will be able to penetrate to your building, just not 3 kilometers of buildings
[21:03] <Maxell> Sick :)
[21:03] <marcel_> yes, but you couldn't see our payload?
[21:04] <marcel_> It was on the balcony
[21:04] <Maxell> I checked at 15:02:36 local time
[21:04] <Maxell> not since
[21:04] <marcel_> ok, maybe we were down at that time
[21:04] <marcel_> I can switch it back on now if you want
[21:04] <Maxell> yeah sure!
[21:05] <marcel_> ok, moment
[21:08] <Maxell> $$CHANGEME,3,21:07:46,0.000000,0.000000,0,0,19,172,20*1F36
[21:08] <Maxell> ±434.653
[21:08] <Maxell> spotted
[21:08] <Maxell> extremly strong
[21:10] <Maxell> marcel_: well there it is http://i.sigio.nl/434fc8eda2446a7ea2cb335fb58a3685.png
[21:10] <Maxell> marcel_: DutchMillbt: another screenshot http://i.sigio.nl/edbc26a4b49919e1c6a34efe9b36e98f.png
[21:10] <marcel_> nice
[21:11] <marcel_> we will change the CHANGEME :-)
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[21:11] <Maxell> marcel_: hihi
[21:11] <Maxell> marcel_: so yeah, that works well
[21:12] <Maxell> no problems what so ever
[21:12] <marcel_> very nice
[21:13] <marcel_> We were wondering if it is allowed to transmit in this fasion continuously
[21:13] <marcel_> I mean, with no pauses
[21:13] <Maxell> Yes 100% duty cycle 10mW iirc let met grab pdf
[21:14] <Maxell> marcel_: http://www.agentschaptelecom.nl/sites/default/files/brochure-vergunningsvrije-radiotoepassingen.pdf
[21:14] <Maxell> Tabel 1, E2: 434,040 - 434,790 MHz 10mW - no duty cycle limit
[21:15] <marcel_> good
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[21:16] <Maxell> and 25 kHz channel spacing so 434,650 MHz is just fine.
[21:17] <Maxell> So yeah i can check here with rtlsdr in house
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[21:17] <Maxell> PC1PCL: hey qrv?
[21:17] <marcel_> 's Gravensande is probably direct line of sight
[21:17] <Maxell> PC1PCL: hab testing @ 434,650 MHz
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[21:18] <marcel_> what kind of receiver os dutchmillbt using?
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[21:18] <Maxell> marcel_: I hink DutchMillbt has the yaesu FT-817
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[21:20] <Maxell> marcel_: too bad nothing here *in* home
[21:20] <Maxell> and outside antenna still in pieces to be mounted on the roof
[21:20] <marcel_> ok
[21:21] <marcel_> I will take it inside now and watch some tv
[21:22] <Maxell> marcel_: tx off $$$$$CHANGEME,68,21:21:49,52.078812,4.
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[21:22] <Maxell> marcel_: great to see/hear it working!
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[21:24] <marcel_> yes!
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[21:24] <marcel_> we want to do one more test with 5km line of sight and our own SDR and antennas
[21:24] <marcel_> maybey sunday morning
[21:25] <marcel_> if that works, we have confidence it will go right
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[21:25] <marcel_> thanks for helping us out with all the info btw
[21:26] <marcel_> tv time, cu
[21:29] <Reb-SM0ULC> evening!
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[21:36] <Maxell> marcel_: yep ok!
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[21:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> Any signs of B-63?
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[21:44] <DL7AD_mobile> Reb-SM0ULC expected tomorrow or Sunday
[21:45] <Reb-SM0ULC> ok, where then?
[21:45] <DL7AD_mobile> Thrres no good prediction
[21:46] <DL7AD_mobile> It could be all over the day
[21:46] Action: Reb-SM0ULC a bit unsynched after unpaid-support-on-parents-new-win81-which-they-for-example-spent-some-20-min-trying-to-turn-off
[21:47] <Reb-SM0ULC> sir, meant where in the us?
[21:47] <DL7AD_mobile> www.dl7ad.de/usa.html
[21:47] <mikestir> I thought the way to turn off a win8 box was to unplug it?
[21:48] <Reb-SM0ULC> DL7AD_mobile: cool page!
[21:49] <DL7AD_mobile> Ah seems to be the trajectory has been already deleted by noaa
[21:49] <Reb-SM0ULC> mikestir: my own planwas to turn it off by installing win7..
[21:50] <DL7AD_mobile> I will run an update in 5min
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[21:53] <Maxell> M0XER-4 packets rx rate is getting lower
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[21:58] <LeoBodnar> what the heck?! VA5LLR - Comment: WIDEn-n 145.390
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[22:08] <DL7AD> Reb-SM0ULC: updated www.dl7ad.de/usa.html
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[22:10] <Laurenceb> why no updates?
[22:13] <arko> Odyssey, Houston. Do you read?
[22:13] <arko> Odyssey, Houston. Do you read me?
[22:13] <arko> Odyssey, Houston. Do you read me?... Odyssey, this is Houston, do you read me?
[22:14] <Reb-SM0ULC> DL7AD: the red zones are?
[22:14] <arko> That's 4 minutes. Standing by.
[22:14] <daveake> shshshshhshshcrackle
[22:14] <arko> pop pop
[22:17] <Laurenceb> oh i see what happened
[22:18] <Laurenceb> Ve5BBZ-1 had a mard
[22:19] <DL7AD> Reb-SM0ULC: digipeaters
[22:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> DL7AD: ah
[22:20] <arko> mard?
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> lol NA APRS abused infrastructure
[22:23] <LeoBodnar> you can abuse it but you have to find it first
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> two balloons, thousands of miles, nowt APRS
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> sure, WIDE2-1 is going to kill it
[22:25] <arko> YOLO2-1
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[22:25] <arko> 7-7
[22:25] <arko> why not
[22:25] <arko> wait thats not even possible is it?
[22:26] <arko> 3-3 is max?
[22:26] <LeoBodnar> i have seen WIDE7-7
[22:26] <LeoBodnar> in the midle of Italy
[22:26] <arko> lol
[22:26] <arko> the system accepts that?
[22:27] <arko> "Do not set any path for balloons. With altitude, the beacons will be heard by stations over a very wide distance, eliminating the need for digipeating. Using a WIDEn-N path in this scenario will simply spam the frequency. "
[22:27] <arko> little do they know my first hab on aprs was 35W and WIDE 2-2
[22:28] <arko> good times
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> haha
[22:28] <arko> RIP HABEX1
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> using steel frame
[22:28] <arko> practically
[22:28] <arko> 6lbs
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:28] <mattbrejza> so young and naive
[22:29] <arko> srsly
[22:29] <arko> i know
[22:29] <arko> those were my wild days
[22:29] <mattbrejza> 35dB up on what b-* is using...
[22:29] <arko> lol
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> global warming
[22:30] <arko> since joining #highaltitude i lost 5.999lbs and powered down 34.990W
[22:30] <arko> life is better now
[22:30] <arko> reHAB
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> i am flicking throgh 1987 ARRL Handbook
[22:31] <arko> every now and then i get the urge to up the power but i hold back
[22:31] <kc2pit> Enough with your QRO-shaming! Heatsinks are beautiful!
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> 95% of designas "Maximul legal power xx MHz amplifier"
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[22:57] <Maxell> kc2pit: qro? 35 whiskeys for hab is qrpp
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[23:01] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/121780_trj001.gif
[23:01] <Laurenceb> 4 days to uk
[23:02] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/121794_trj001.gif
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> this is slightly more accurate http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/121830_trj001.gif
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[23:07] <arko> :/ shame B-63 still hasnt shown up
[23:14] <DL7AD> arko: it waits for you to be received in canada
[23:14] <arko> ?
[23:14] <DL7AD> are you still in los angeles?
[23:15] <arko> yes
[23:15] <DL7AD> yeah B-63 is expecting you in canada :P
[23:16] <DL7AD> arko: www.dl7ad.de/usa.html
[23:17] <DL7AD> this is just GFS instead of GFS05.
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[00:00] --- Sat Jul 26 2014