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[00:30] <Boelle_DK> any APRS / Arduino guru's in here?
[00:30] <Boelle_DK> have an idea i need some coding help with
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[04:06] <VE6SAR> ?who
[04:07] <madist> how does gps signal strength vary during the course of the day ?
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[04:23] <VE6SAR> It depends on the number of satellites in view as far as I know
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[06:56] <gonzo_> all the gps satellites are orbiting at the same distance, so they should all have the same sig strength, depending on the angle of elevatio you see them at
[06:57] <gonzo_> hmm, looks like they left
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[07:49] <Boelle_DK> any APRS / Arduino guru's in here?
[07:49] <Boelle_DK> have an idea i need some coding help with
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[07:51] <fsphil> just ask
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[07:52] <Boelle_DK> have found an arduino based APRS tracker for the car
[07:52] <Boelle_DK> i want to add a small relay or something so i can control a device in the car by sending it a APRS msg
[07:53] <Boelle_DK> replacing the transmitter module with a transceiver seems easy enough.... might not be that simple...
[07:53] <Boelle_DK> but coding is not my cup of tea... i stink at it
[07:54] <Boelle_DK> for baloons it could be used to activate a cutdown on demand
[07:54] <Boelle_DK> so it could server mor than one purpose
[07:54] <Boelle_DK> will be a bit on/off.... jsut got out of bed
[07:54] <fsphil> there is a project out there for decoding aprs on an avr
[07:54] <fsphil> not sure how good it is
[07:55] <mfa298> can't really stop now as I should be leaving for work. But I think you have two basic routes you can go down. Either you need the AVR to convert the audio data into something useful. Or you need to find something else to act as a TNC (device that will convert the audio tones to serial data)
[07:56] <lz1dev> using the GSM networks is probably a better solution
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[07:56] <Boelle_DK> for the first route it would require skills to do the code at least....
[07:56] <lz1dev> control whatever you want via SMS
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[07:56] <lz1dev> plus, better coverage
[07:57] <Boelle_DK> and there is not much APRS over using GSM
[07:57] <Boelle_DK> plus it would make it useable for a car only
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[07:58] <lz1dev> another thing to point out is that APRS is gated to the net, so someone can very easily spot your control messages
[07:58] <lz1dev> and then send some
[07:58] <Boelle_DK> what i have my eyes on are the trackuino shield....
[07:58] <Boelle_DK> i have modded it so it has the atmel chip onboard
[07:59] <Boelle_DK> i hate thought of the control issue....
[07:59] <Boelle_DK> all msg's have to be prefixed with a know value that changes automatic
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[08:00] <Boelle_DK> but keep that out for now
[08:00] <mfa298> that starts sounding a bit like obfuscated messages which generally isn't permitted on amateur radio
[08:01] Action: mfa298 really must leave now
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[08:02] <fsphil> I don't think signing a message would be going against the encryption or secret code rules
[08:03] <Boelle_DK> it is on my side of the north sea....
[08:03] <gonzo_> no different to a crc
[08:03] <fsphil> indeed
[08:03] <Boelle_DK> it could be as simple as the date reverse....
[08:03] <Boelle_DK> or time reverse rounded to nearest 15 min or so
[08:03] <fsphil> crc, but with an added secret key
[08:04] <Boelle_DK> each end have a gps anyway or know the time very well
[08:04] <Boelle_DK> lots of ways to slice the cake
[08:04] <fsphil> yea you'd need that to stop replay attacks
[08:04] <gonzo_> though could argue that it is to aid transmission, rather than to obscure the content
[08:05] <gonzo_> as a crc is part of the transmission frame, it's only ion additio n to the content
[08:05] <fsphil> the content itself wouldn't be encrypted
[08:05] <gonzo_> could also argue, sod it, just do it
[08:05] <fsphil> lol
[08:06] <Boelle_DK> hehe....
[08:06] <fsphil> I've thought about adding a signature to hab telemetry on aprs
[08:06] <fsphil> to make sure it can't be tampered with
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[08:10] <gonzo_> hmmmm, on the subject of cake......
[08:12] <Boelle_DK> but no know how to implent this? the arduino sketch are free to download.... dont have the link handy but can look it up
[08:19] <Boelle_DK> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B07fUNkGahyfX0R0UC1oTEQ3eG8&usp=sharing
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[08:59] <jededu> Is this string formatted correctly so far regarding NSEW the wiki does mention adding the - for west is that the case do I need that also $$$$EDUHABP,08:56:21,N,5232.32385,W,00152.68609,08,142.7,24*
[09:01] <sp2ipt> anyone ever used airconsole? Seems interesting
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[09:04] <jededu> mm
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[09:23] <amell> the size of some of these antennas in canada, they are crazy.
[09:24] <gonzo_> lots of space ano no-one to complain
[09:25] <gonzo_> the only down side is, you can talk to more grumpy old men
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[09:26] <sp2ipt> amell: why is that? wouldn't you like to have a 6 m dish to do EME? I'd really be happy :)
[09:28] <amell> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FGIROUX&timerange=3600&tail=3600 has a particularly impressive antenna
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[09:46] <sepera> Hello everybody
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[09:50] <UpuWork> hi there
[09:50] <sepera> The landing predictor, does it get its data for caluclations from meterological sources? I want to know if it takes into account the wind direction and speed. Also any suggestions where to go to get these data internationally (I'm in Armenia (Asia)
[09:51] <UpuWork> It gets its data from NOAA
[09:51] <UpuWork> http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/products/gfs/
[09:51] <UpuWork> yes it does and the predictor works globally
[09:51] <sepera> Excellent!
[09:52] <UpuWork> obviously the accuracy will be closer to the event
[09:52] <sepera> sorry?
[09:52] <UpuWork> accuracy of the prediction
[09:52] <UpuWork> will be better closer to the launch date
[09:52] <WillDWork> UpuWork - thanks for not pi notification - looking forward to it :)
[09:52] <UpuWork> 2-3 days
[09:52] <UpuWork> nps WillDWork
[09:53] <sepera> Okay, I understand. You mean its best if I check it as sson to the launch of the balloon as possible?
[09:53] <UpuWork> yes
[09:53] <sepera> gotcha
[09:55] <sepera> I dont know what most of the files on that website are. Got to go research them. Im only looking for wind forecast.
[09:55] <sepera> I have local sources for other tings
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[09:57] <sepera> Oh, and I also don't udnerstand what I need to type in the "Launch altitude (m):" field. Doesnt google map provide that, or is it asking at what height from the ground it will be launched or something?
[09:57] <daveake> I wouldn't bother unless you're launching from a mountain
[09:59] <sepera> Well we are a mountanous country
[09:59] <daveake> Well type it in then
[09:59] <sepera> so it wants the height from sea level?
[09:59] <daveake> yes
[09:59] <sepera> Ok, Thanks! So i guess google maps doesnt provide that info
[10:00] <sepera> thats what got me confused what it wanted as input
[10:00] <daveake> It assumes the landing is at sea level also, so that can be a out a bit
[10:01] <daveake> However these errors are small compared to the main variables - balloon bursting early or late, and your ascent rate not being accurate for example
[10:02] <sepera> How much do you thing by "a bit". The reason Im asking some parts of our small country is 1000-1500 meters above sea level and we have few mountains from 2000 to 4000 meters.
[10:02] <sepera> And also we have two hstile countries from east and west and Iran from the south
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[10:02] <sepera> if it lands there, no way to get it back
[10:03] <sepera> the caluclator shows about 17 km travel distance and the radius to the closest border is 50 km
[10:04] <daveake> Depends on the wind
[10:05] <daveake> If the ascent and descent rates are 5m/s, and the wind 5m/s, then every 1m altitude change is going to move the landing point by 1m
[10:06] <daveake> So, it depends ...
[10:07] <sepera> So looks like the prediction might be off by 1-2 kilometers, Not that bad actually.
[10:07] <sepera> What do you think?
[10:09] <gonzo_> the live prediction on SNUS changes for each updated location. So the only one that will be close is the last one, before landing.
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[10:09] <daveake> I think 1-2km is less than the other errors, as I said. So long as you fill the balloon accurately, then a 17km flight should land within about 5km of the last prediction
[10:10] <gonzo_> you will not have an accurate accent/decent rate till you actually launch
[10:10] <daveake> Obviously if the prediction is further then (some of) the errors will be larger
[10:11] <gonzo_> and there is the met office data errors. They may not have good data at the time you run the predictions
[10:12] <gonzo_> and burst altitude is notoriously difficult to guess
[10:13] <sepera> Not sure if I understand. if 17 km distance is predicted right before launching, and the ascent and descent rate are correct, prediction data used is correct and balloon is filled properly, then youre saying you think it should land in a 5 km radius range from the prediction done right before landing happens?
[10:13] <gonzo_> (all said from my vast experience of one latex flight!)
[10:14] <daveake> Roughly, yes. Even so the balloon may burst higher or lower than the prediction says
[10:15] <daveake> Chinese balloons in particular seem to have a poor knowledge of physics
[10:16] <gonzo_> I think dave's rough errors refer to a prediction done right before launch
[10:16] <daveake> yes
[10:16] <sepera> Im not going to sue you if what you say ends up wrong, lol. Just asking for opinion on how likely it is that 17 km predicted flight will end up at 50 km away, in another closed-border country, and how further from the predicted are do you think it can land in worst case (but realistic) scenario
[10:16] <daveake> Short version: If you've got a coast or border to avoid 50km away, I'd want the prediction to be within 30km of the launch site
[10:16] <sepera> Okya, thanks.
[10:17] <gonzo_> the snus predicted landing area changes as the read flight data comes in. If you can get telemetry almsot to the landing, then the live predict is pretty good
[10:17] <gonzo_> (May be a long way from the predict done at launch though!)
[10:17] <gonzo_> read=real
[10:19] <sepera> btw, the flight and landing is caluclated to last less than 3 hours, if that helps
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> do you submit the job on punchcards and get lined paper printout next day?
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> only to find it's a 2ft high core dump
[10:23] <amell> Wont your balloon need an Iron Dome IFF transponder &?
[10:24] <amell> for sepera btw
[10:24] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar Have you got a current prediction of where B-63 may be heading, and when it might re-enter APRS areas?u
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> 3-4 days i think
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=144060
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[10:25] <amell> F1VJQ: basically hoping to see it in ontario/upstate new york by the weekend.
[10:25] <F1VJQ> OK Good stuff!
[10:26] <amell> end of the weekend more like.
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[11:11] <F1VJQ> F1VJQ-away
[11:11] <fsphil> lies
[11:11] Nick change: F1VJQ -> F1VJQ-away
[11:11] <fsphil> hehe :)
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[11:30] <jededu> Is this string formatted correctly so far regarding NSEW the wiki does mention adding the - for west do I need to add that ? $$$$EDUHABP,08:56:21,N,5232.32385,W,00152.68609,08,142.7,24*
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[11:39] <daveake> I don't think that will work
[11:39] <daveake> I don't recall seeing any options in genpayload to change the sign of long/lat based on NSEW
[11:39] <daveake> So just do it in the tracker
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[11:43] <jededu> Thanks daveake his is what I was referring to http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[11:44] <jededu> parse whether it its NSEW and use +/- appropriately.
[11:44] <daveake> Well in that case your answer was right there on that page - "latitude and longitude can either be in decimal degrees (DD.dddd) or the NMEA format (DDMM.mmmm). If using decimal degrees take care that your conversion code does not break if it crosses the meridian. While the NMEA format is accepted you will still need to parse whether it its NSEW and use +/- appropriately."
[11:45] <daveake> So once you've added the "-" (where needed) it'll work.
[11:45] <daveake> ofc you then don't need the NSEW fields so you can remove them
[11:47] <jededu> Thats what is confusing NSEW and +/- but as you say Ill just add - thx
[11:47] <Boelle_DK> Q: any APRS guru's that are also good with the arduino platform? have my eyes on the trackuino and want to add option of remotecontrol... ie be able to send an APRS msg to it and turn on a relay or transistor.... of course the transmittter have to be replaced with a transceiver, link: https://code.google.com/p/trackuino/
[11:47] <jededu> And counter and checksum
[11:47] <daveake> Also, while you're at it, it's worth converting lat/long to decimal
[11:48] <daveake> Then it's easier to tap the location into google maps or a sat nav or phone when chasing
[11:49] <jededu> believe me we have tried this software rounds everything
[11:49] <jededu> then we loose accuracy
[11:49] <jededu> lose
[11:49] <daveake> add more dps
[11:49] <gonzo_> that sounds like a dangerous extra bit of processing to add to flight code
[11:50] <daveake> it is lol
[11:50] <gonzo_> I stuck with the DDMM.mmmm of nmea
[11:50] <jededu> Its all good untill addition at the end
[11:50] <gonzo_> actually, I just copt the characters between the delimiters. KISS
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[11:51] <gonzo_> copy
[11:51] <daveake> Well, I try to make it simpler for the chase bit
[11:52] <gonzo_> doing calculations on the lat/lon in the air, seems to have caused a lot of errors over the last few years
[11:52] <gonzo_> +- and discontinuities
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[11:53] <gonzo_> I think my satnav prog on the phone will handle the DDDMM.mmmm type format
[11:53] <daveake> it has
[11:54] <daveake> Annoyingly, my sat nav doesn't have digits, command and dp on the same keyboard layout
[11:54] <daveake> lots of switching between modes
[11:54] <fsphil> dddmm.mmmm is the must stupid format invented
[11:54] <fsphil> most*
[11:55] <fsphil> it makes no logical sense at all
[11:55] <fsphil> it's like imperial units
[11:56] <gonzo_> I agree, bbut i keep it silly and do the calcs on the ground. As I can alawys get back at the raw data if the ground seggment gets it wroing
[11:56] <gonzo_> shoudl send it in furlongs
[11:56] <gonzo_> is 5unit bhaudot
[11:57] <daveake> distance from launch point in morse
[11:57] <daveake> oh that's been done ....
[11:58] <fsphil> ..-.-
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> what's that?
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> some chinese morse?
[11:59] <fsphil> it's the morse for someone shrugging
[11:59] <fsphil> it's french
[12:00] <LeoBodnar> oh
[12:00] <fsphil> I suppose it should have been just .
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[12:01] <fsphil> the morse for ackward silence is ....
[12:01] <daveake>
[12:02] <cm13g09> If you lot are going to all go dotty on me, I'll dash off!
[12:03] <maxmed> running this code: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/3245f14c8fe1d47d709aed51bb0c073b8225a80e but getting complete jibberish out eg: "$$MAX,20,0,pjg_zs~Q.&Y3plAsuC~76N<I{6<n?|_/b-'Y>s[DZkcq}jAKRk[p/4oeupo%eu]~fm=iMjzwhZr+Z}^/*2045" the $$MAX, sentance_count comes through fine everytime suggesting it is not a poor signal so must be the code. Any idea whats wrong?
[12:03] <WillyD> NASA TV is awesome. I think I just discovered something amazing
[12:10] <daveake> maxmed You need to link people to the entire program not a code snippet
[12:13] <maxmed> here is complete code (hopefully): https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/blob/3245f14c8fe1d47d709aed51bb0c073b8225a80e/tracking_code_11/tracking_code_11.ino#L28 I'm leaving now but should be back in a minute
[12:14] <daveake> When you get back, look up dtostrf please
[12:14] <daveake> and then think about the size of the char array you're passing to it, vs the *max* length of the string it will write
[12:15] <jededu> Would this work
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[12:15] <jededu> To early
[12:17] <jededu> Would this work $$$$EDUHABP,08:56:21,5232.32385,-152.68609,08,142.7,24* or do I need to keep the 0's $$$$EDUHABP,08:56:21,5232.32385,-00152.68609,08,142.7,24*
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[12:17] <daveake> You don't need the leading zeroes
[12:18] <jededu> Cool works then
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[12:26] <N1GKE_Myrt> Good afternoon Is anyone actively tracking this B-63 ?
[12:29] <mightymik> it's in APRS mode i think
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[12:37] <N1GKE_Myrt> Yes, it is. I am tracking it as wel as monitoring WIND conditions across NA.
[12:38] <amell> N1GKE_Myrt: You can hear it now? send us a recording (mp3) if so.
[12:40] <N1GKE_Myrt> No, I can not hear it yet. I will try if the footprint gets near me though. I am in FN41fr, too far east at this time.
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[12:41] <N1GKE_Myrt> POSITION REPORT ? -->> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/M0XER-3
[12:42] <amell> yes. but not heard from for 21 hours.
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[12:49] <DL7AD> hi
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[12:56] <Laurenceb_> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/xrange-extreme-long-range-wireless-module-for-868-915-mhz
[13:00] <mattbrejza> what does the stm32 do? make it look fancier and expose a uart?
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[13:02] <nats`> mattbrejza it allows to sell the board accordingly to the law too...
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> heh
[13:02] <nats`> I learned it the hardway recently at work
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> id love to know more about LoRa protocol
[13:02] <nats`> it's easy :D
[13:02] <nats`> I tested their chip at work last year
[13:02] <nats`> it's really impressive in term of performance
[13:03] <nats`> it's basically spread spectrum
[13:03] <nats`> and if you are passionated enough the modulation is not so hard to understand
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> but spread spectrum on its own wont give you a link budget improvement
[13:03] <nats`> here they use orthogonal chirp
[13:03] <mattbrejza> well its all about perforamnce in the face of interference
[13:03] <nats`> so you have different level of lora
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> ok
[13:03] <nats`> you can change the spreading factor to change the rate
[13:04] <gonzo_> there is some interesting chatter about dss in this month's radcom
[13:04] <nats`> mattbrejza really good against narrow band interference
[13:04] <nats`> + the huge advantage of not having to use $$$$$ tcxo
[13:04] <nats`> it can accept a huge drift between TX and RX
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:05] <nats`> bad side is..... it's a proprietary modulation
[13:05] <Laurenceb_> very interesting
[13:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah - i would like to implement it from scratch for hab
[13:05] <nats`> + the time on air is really huge when you make long range test
[13:05] <nats`> 300bps
[13:05] <nats`> and it works on 125/250/500kHz BW
[13:06] <nats`> so maybe not really compliant for airborne use
[13:06] <mattbrejza> i wonder how reliable it would be on 869 balloon flights
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[13:06] <nats`> anyway the -136dBm sensitivity is true
[13:06] <mattbrejza> i cant remember what ir2030 has to say on the matter
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[13:06] <mattbrejza> although its not really fair to compare a dsss sensitivy against a non-dsss sensitivity?
[13:07] <nats`> I agree :)
[13:07] <nats`> that's why I always recall that's a proprietary modulation with some drawback
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> dsss doesnt change performance in the face of white noise
[13:07] <mattbrejza> but it makes your sensitivity look more impressive :P
[13:07] <nats`> Laurenceb_ they add coding over that
[13:07] <nats`> that's why they can announce an under SNR decode of -14dB IIRC
[13:09] <mattbrejza> is it a two way ARQ thing?
[13:09] <nats`> LORA ?
[13:09] <nats`> it's really just a modulation + coding
[13:09] <mattbrejza> ya
[13:09] <nats`> nothing more
[13:09] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:09] <nats`> no protocol included
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[13:10] <mattbrejza> i may have confused dBm and dBm/Hz in the sensitivity discussion
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[13:10] <mattbrejza> although its unclear from the marketing crap what theyre using
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[13:11] <nats`> mattbrejza for what I tested (so basic test only)
[13:11] <nats`> you can keep a valid decode under 1% PER at 136dB attenuation 0dBm tx
[13:12] <mattbrejza> ok
[13:12] <nats`> but...... it's 300bps so IIRC 180bps payload
[13:12] <nats`> it's when you use their spreading factor 12 + max coding
[13:12] <nats`> so this case is really a very specific case
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> i guess lots of FEC will bring the performance up
[13:13] <nats`> yep
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> then carrier tracking and stuff too
[13:13] <nats`> they have FEC + modulation
[13:13] <mattbrejza> theyre not really fairly comparing sensitivity
[13:13] <nats`> + spreading sorry
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> then maybe the rest is just DSSS to avoid narrow band
[13:13] <nats`> nop that's what I say :)
[13:13] <nats`> it's not fair at all
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> spreading doesnt increase performance relative to the noise floor
[13:13] <Laurenceb_> so i think its fair
[13:13] <nats`> in fact they even announce -14db SNR
[13:14] <nats`> Laurenceb_ it's not faire because you don't just compare two modulation
[13:14] <nats`> there is FEC behind
[13:14] <nats`> so you can't just say LORA beat FSK
[13:14] <mattbrejza> well spreading is irrelevent as we're talking about total power into the rx, so it doesnt matter if all that power is in 1kHz or 1MHz
[13:14] <mattbrejza> but its unfair if its power rather than energy/bit
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> yes
[13:18] <Boelle_DK> Q... where is the page that can show predicted flightpath etc for a HAB ?
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=f558e1e43e03976cb87bda0d47df5903adb127c9
[13:21] <Boelle_DK> thanks
[13:23] <Boelle_DK> is acent rate of 5m/s common ?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> yes
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[13:23] <Boelle_DK> and same for down?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Much slower, and the balloon goes a long way before bursting, or even may not burst at all
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> that depends on the size of the cute
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> chute
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> but it's generally reasonable
[13:24] <Boelle_DK> oki... just trying to convince danish auth. that its safe
[13:24] <Boelle_DK> and that it can be predicted within reason
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> In general, you should design payloads that you wouldn't mind landing on your head
[13:24] <Boelle_DK> or the permit is only for a single launch
[13:24] <Boelle_DK> and their hour fee is about 100£
[13:25] <Boelle_DK> would become an expensive hobby
[13:25] <Boelle_DK> excatly about the landing on head
[13:25] <Boelle_DK> and protective soft foam
[13:26] <Boelle_DK> but showing that you have an approx idea of where it will go is not bad either
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[13:38] <Boelle_DK> fun tool....
[13:40] <adamgreig> Boelle_DK: 5m/s ground-level (i.e. impact) descent rate is about normal under a reasonable parachute
[13:41] <Boelle_DK> Q: what is a reasonble payload mass for a pi...
[13:41] <Boelle_DK> trying to play with filling the ballon to make it burst a bit faster
[13:42] <Boelle_DK> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=3adafb92c1034a08d850ac35bca60393b0ebfe90
[13:42] <Boelle_DK> that would be reasonble for a first launch... but thought i could play with the settings to get it a tad closer
[13:43] <Boelle_DK> but landing on farm land is not bad idea at all
[13:43] <Boelle_DK> and still within 45 mins
[13:45] <Boelle_DK> but well lets see if they at all are open for a permanent permit
[13:45] <Boelle_DK> not against if they aplly condictions
[13:45] <Boelle_DK> apply
[13:46] <Boelle_DK> but from the latest mail i think their main concern are that you know the path once you let go,
[13:46] <Boelle_DK> and that you know where it is during the flight
[13:47] <Boelle_DK> a on demand cut down would not be bad at all
[13:52] <fsphil> and breath
[13:55] <Boelle_DK> :-P
[13:56] <Boelle_DK> nah its more in the case should weather change so much that landing will become unsafe and auth demands that the flight are aborted
[13:57] <Boelle_DK> very unlikely they will for a light hab.... but non the less a nice to have
[13:58] <Boelle_DK> they are safety freaks bordering to outright crazy or paranoid.....
[13:58] <Boelle_DK> i can understand them
[13:58] <Boelle_DK> there are sure a lot of nutjobs not thinking about it should be safe
[13:58] <fsphil> yes sadly
[13:59] <Boelle_DK> been poking my mind how to demonstrate that i know what i'm doing and that it can be done safely every time
[14:00] <Boelle_DK> also in the event that things turn very shitty
[14:00] <Boelle_DK> knowing the path beforehand is one thing
[14:00] <Boelle_DK> and during flight
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[14:00] <Boelle_DK> but the abort thing would almost hit the nail i think
[14:01] <Boelle_DK> its just how to trigger it....
[14:01] <Boelle_DK> anyone done 2 ways coms with a HAB before?
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[14:02] <fsphil> I don't believe so
[14:03] <Boelle_DK> hmm
[14:03] <Boelle_DK> brewing up one idea
[14:03] <Boelle_DK> ehm....
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[14:04] <Boelle_DK> would it work if i had a tracker at ground, and the hab listning for it?
[14:04] <Boelle_DK> and should i need a cutdown i could just power the tracker at ground off
[14:04] <Boelle_DK> or send it a series of data
[14:05] <Boelle_DK> of course will require 2 yagis... one to transmit and one to listen/decode
[14:05] <Boelle_DK> just a quick brain fart
[14:05] <Boelle_DK> might smell bad
[14:06] <Boelle_DK> another one....
[14:06] <fsphil> a yagi on a balloon would be rather difficult
[14:06] <Boelle_DK> no no
[14:06] <Boelle_DK> not a yagi at baloon
[14:06] <Boelle_DK> only on ground
[14:07] <fsphil> ah
[14:07] <fsphil> there have been remotely triggered cut-downs done before
[14:07] <Boelle_DK> since i know where it is i can aim at it
[14:07] <Boelle_DK> another variant is an APRS tracker
[14:08] <fsphil> the noise level on the balloon can be a problem
[14:08] <Boelle_DK> but with a transceiver....
[14:08] <Boelle_DK> and make the HAB listen for an APRS msg
[14:08] <Boelle_DK> ie send a msg to OZ****** with a command like cutdown or something
[14:09] <Boelle_DK> of course the APRS idea demands a ham license
[14:09] <Boelle_DK> which i aim to get before winter
[14:10] <Boelle_DK> btw.... planning to setup a APRS repater at local ham club
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[14:10] <Boelle_DK> loads of old timers that dont know what it is... but open for the idea since some do use it
[14:10] <Boelle_DK> they also have a relay at roof of local hospital
[14:10] <Boelle_DK> might even get teh chance to mount it there
[14:11] <Boelle_DK> with some luck
[14:11] <fsphil> surprised, aprs is pretty ancient
[14:11] <Boelle_DK> yeah.... but still going strong
[14:11] <Boelle_DK> it has helped with a few of the B hab's
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[14:12] <Boelle_DK> loads of stuff use it
[14:12] <Boelle_DK> http://aprs.fi/#!lat=55.40000&lng=10.38330
[14:12] <Boelle_DK> zoom out....
[14:12] <Boelle_DK> its boats... cars... ships
[14:13] <Boelle_DK> baloons
[14:13] <Boelle_DK> so it would make sense with a solid repeater & igate
[14:13] <fsphil> most of the boats are not doing aprs
[14:14] <Boelle_DK> local to me they are.... even some i did not know
[14:15] <Boelle_DK> but what the heck.... it could be an alternative to 434mhz
[14:15] <Boelle_DK> using both would only make sure you have a failsafe
[14:15] <PC1PCL> aprs.fi has (HAM-operated) boats doing aprs, but also merges in ais information.
[14:16] <Boelle_DK> ahh
[14:16] <Boelle_DK> thats why there are so many boats then
[14:16] <Boelle_DK> my fault
[14:16] <Boelle_DK> but i wonder how they did remote cut down.... those that did
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[14:17] Nick change: shenki_ -> shenki
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> how do i use ignore on IRC?
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> right click... select ignore
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> that is one way
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> the other is to not repsond
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> respond
[14:18] <nats`> or /ignore :)
[14:18] <simium> Hi all, I have a doubt: is it possible to do SSTV with a microcontroller? I've seen Akerman and others do it with a RasPi, but I was wondering if it would be possible to do it with Arduino
[14:19] <fsphil> most of those flights have been doing ssdv, which is images over the same digital link used for telemetry
[14:20] <simium> aha, ok
[14:20] <fsphil> that works fine on a microcontroller with an appropriate camera
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> dang [15:20] == IGNORE Unknown command
[14:20] <fsphil> sstv is a bit trickier on a micro
[14:20] <fsphil> due to lack of memory
[14:20] <fsphil> but it can be done too
[14:20] <simium> thanks fsphil, I was sure Akerman did SSTV (sorry, complete noob)
[14:21] <fsphil> np. ssdv could have been better named :)
[14:21] <simium> Source Code https://github.com/fsphil/ssdv
[14:21] <simium> I guess it's the same fsphil :)
[14:22] <fsphil> guilty
[14:22] <simium> good, nice to meet you then and thanks for your code
[14:23] <Boelle_DK> LeoBodnar: if its me you could just tell me to keep my mouth closed :-D
[14:24] <simium> So I could get a picture with this TTL cam for Arduino, save it to a microsd then send it "ssdvized" through an NTX2?
[14:24] <fsphil> yes
[14:24] <fsphil> or you can read from the camera slowly and encode/send it in real time
[14:25] <fsphil> the ssdv encoder doesn't need the full image to work
[14:25] <mattbrejza> turns out some of the cameras output jpeg, but the avr doesnt have enough ram to read it in 'realtime'
[14:25] <mattbrejza> you can get cameras with external fifo memory though
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> you are doomed to inane drivel Leo
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> /seppuku
[14:26] <mattbrejza> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300-000-Pixel-CMOS-Camera-Module-OV7670-with-FIFO-AL422-AL422B-12M-Crystal-/200966598122?pt=US_Security_Cameras&hash=item2eca8aedea
[14:27] <mattbrejza> you would have to jpeg encode though which the avr could do
[14:27] <mattbrejza> would also probably hve to store the image on an sd card during the encoding
[14:28] <simium> what I had thought is to get this camera https://learn.adafruit.com/ttl-serial-camera/using-the-camera, then I would take a JPEG picture every T minutes, then send to ground some of them
[14:29] <mattbrejza> thats probably the easiest way rather than trying to jpeg encode yourself
[14:30] <simium> should I assume the SSDV encoder works with JPEG pictures?
[14:30] <mattbrejza> although it is my understanding that these jpeg serial cameras are expensive and not great quality
[14:31] <simium> mattbrejza actually I don't need great quality in this case, there are already a couple Gopros
[14:32] <simium> thing is I'd like to use this SSDV option as a means for location: point the camera down, take picture of ground surface, find landmarks in Google maps...
[14:32] <simium> just for fun :)
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[14:34] <adamgreig> good luck with that :P
[14:34] <simium> ha, thanks :P
[14:37] <daveake> Use a Pi / upload google earth data / get Pi to figure out where it is
[14:37] <daveake> have fun with that too :/
[14:38] <simium> that would be awesome
[14:38] <fsphil> simium: ssdv can read the jpeg from those cameras fine
[14:38] <fsphil> it's what it was originally developed against
[14:40] <fsphil> the ones with a glass lense are not too bad
[14:41] <simium> the code in your repo has a lot of stuff that I would not need on an avr, right?
[14:41] <fsphil> these images came from something similar: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/sets/72157628264170117
[14:41] <fsphil> yep
[14:41] <fsphil> there is a cut-down version somewhere
[14:42] <mattbrejza> is that the one that landed on a road and you almost ran over?
[14:42] <fsphil> it can just about fit into an atmega328, though it won't leave room for much else
[14:42] <simium> alright, I'll look for it
[14:42] <simium> I'm using an arduino micro, it has some more space
[14:42] <fsphil> this is the one that I tried to land on UpuWork, but underfilled and it landed in the nort hsea
[14:42] <simium> the 32u4
[14:42] <mattbrejza> oh right
[14:43] <simium> https://github.com/fsphil/hadie this one should be a good starting point :)
[14:44] <fsphil> arko recently made it a bit smaller than the hadie version: https://github.com/arkorobotics/CUBEX_V1/blob/master/Code/ssdv.c
[14:44] <fsphil> it puts more of the tables in progmem
[14:45] <fsphil> well they where already in progmem, but the old version copied them into ram for encoding
[14:45] <fsphil> it didn't need to
[14:46] <simium> great, I will investigate
[14:46] <mattbrejza> silly avr, separate program and data memory spaces
[14:46] <fsphil> you could save a bit more if the camera you use has fixed DHT and DQT tables
[14:46] <fsphil> those could also then be put into progmem
[14:50] <cm13g09> afternoon fsphil
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[14:53] <fsphil> 'owdy
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[15:13] <Ian_> fsphil [12:58] what is . . - . - ? it's INT the interrogative, a barred character, as used by the military INT QSA instead of QSA IMI.
[15:13] <Ian_> ex military telegraphist . . .
[15:14] <fsphil> I have some googling to do. brb ;)
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[15:58] <on4bhm> what lipo's are being used for float ballons with solar?
[15:59] <cm13g09> on4bhm: LeoBodnar is your man
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[16:01] <Upu> on4bhm small ones from RC Helicopters
[16:03] <on4bhm> 200mAh 3.7v ?
[16:03] <Upu> something like that
[16:03] <Upu> they aren't massive
[16:03] <on4bhm> 6grams?
[16:03] <Upu> less I think
[16:03] <on4bhm> but how are they charged? with dc-dc converters to 3.7v ?
[16:03] <Upu> dedicated IC that charges via solar
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[16:04] <on4bhm> any reference to that?
[16:04] <Upu> there are a number I use SPV1040
[16:04] <Upu> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM142/CL1810/SC1517/PF251161
[16:04] <Maxell> on4bhm: ah, mooi! http://aprs.fi/info/a/ON4BHM-11
[16:04] <Upu> others use linear parts
[16:07] <on4bhm> LeoB are u here?
[16:08] <on4bhm> any source for the spv1040?
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[16:08] <Upu> http://octopart.com/partsearch#!?q=SPV1040
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[16:12] <on4bhm> mouser is 20¬ transport cost !!
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> i can't help with that
[16:13] <craag> Maxell: ping
[16:14] <on4bhm> Leo, what are you using to charge your lipo's in flight?
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> solar panels
[16:15] <on4bhm> yes ok, but what kind of electronic to do the dc-dc conversion?
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> MPPT controller
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> i am useing the same one as Upu
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> and aadamson
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> and arko
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> and...
[16:17] <on4bhm> spv1040?
[16:17] <LeoBodnar> yes
[16:17] <mattbrejza> what a coincidence
[16:18] <on4bhm> any cheap source for that?
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> Mouser
[16:18] <Maxell> craag: pong
[16:18] <arko> LeoBodnar: NUH UHHH
[16:19] <Maxell> craag: /me noms
[16:19] <Maxell> afk ±45 mins
[16:19] <arko> LeoBodnar: I'm using the LTC3105 :)
[16:20] <craag> Maxell: Just FYI websdr is down while I try to bring back 3cm/70cm
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> here we go on4bhm , you are spoilt for choice
[16:21] <arko> fsphil: "arko recently" lol, you mean you did it :)
[16:23] <arko> fsphil has mad code shrinkin skillz
[16:23] <arko> which is why he's entering the L1 demoscene contest...
[16:23] <arko> :P right?
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[16:26] <mattbrejza> whats the idiot-proff aprs program that LeoBodnar s been sending to the middle of nowhere?
[16:26] <mattbrejza> -f+o
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> Hmm, I wonder what MPPT controller Andy is using http://picospace.net/wp-content/uploads/PS-7/PastedGraphic-31.png
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> direwolf
[16:27] <LeoBodnar> https://home.comcast.net/~wb2osz/site/
[16:28] <mattbrejza> thanks
[16:29] <LeoBodnar> it's like MULTIPSK^-1
[16:31] <mattbrejza> aprsis is what pipes it to aprs.fi?
[16:32] <LeoBodnar> aprs-is is the netowrk of servers
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi is getting data from aprs-is
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> and archiving it
[16:33] <mattbrejza> ok
[16:33] <LeoBodnar> as aprs-is is a flow, not database
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: here is some useful info http://www.aprs-is.net/Default.aspx
[16:35] <on4bhm> leo, do you also use aprs during flight?
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> yes
[16:35] <on4bhm> on what freq.?
[16:35] <LeoBodnar> 144.800
[16:35] <on4bhm> so you have 2 tx in payload?
[16:36] <mattbrejza> thank
[16:36] <mattbrejza> s
[16:37] <on4bhm> one for 434.500 and one for 144.800
[16:37] <mattbrejza> lol ham software...
[16:37] <on4bhm> also 10mW on 144.800??
[16:39] <LeoBodnar> yes
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> direwolf source code is available and is actually readable
[16:40] <LeoBodnar> it's probably leaked alienware
[16:43] <mattbrejza> looks like oli's train is in winchester atm
[16:43] <LeoBodnar> has he managed to tx on RF?
[16:44] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:44] <mattbrejza> i dont think im uploading anthing though
[16:44] <mattbrejza> cba to sort that out now
[16:45] <mattbrejza> quite a lot of aprs here
[16:45] <on4bhm> can a balloon tx on 144.800 aprs above uk?
[16:47] <craag> on4bhm: No, AR is illegal from airborne vehicles in the UK
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> you need to unco,
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> mment few lines in there
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[16:50] <daveake> what about the line
[16:50] <daveake> feed?
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[16:57] <craag> Maxell: Websdr is back up
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[17:03] <on4bhm> as it is in belgium i believe
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[17:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CQnR5fhCXkQ
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[17:12] Nick change: SgtBurned -> Guest21283
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[17:19] <arko> B-64!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[17:19] <arko> WOOOOOO!!!!!
[17:19] <arko> LeoBodnar:
[17:19] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[17:19] <arko> ^^^^^
[17:19] <arko> YEAHHHHHH
[17:19] <pd3t> indeed it just crossed the atlantic
[17:19] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar:
[17:19] <DL7AD> :D
[17:19] <DL7AD> cool
[17:19] <arko> WOOOO!!!!!!!!!
[17:19] <arko> USA!
[17:20] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> osama bin laden
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> ^obligatory
[17:20] <DL7AD> flew faster than espected
[17:20] <pd3t> terrorism
[17:20] <pd3t> boms
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> this is awesome
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[17:20] <Laurenceb_> NSA
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[17:20] <craag> /ban arko Excessive patriotism
[17:21] <arko> uh?
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> /troll
[17:21] <pd3t> arps decode by K0PEAK
[17:21] <arko> how can you be american and not be excessively patriotic
[17:21] <nigelvh> And it's even near Washington!
[17:21] <nigelvh> Woooo!
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[17:21] <Laurenceb_> too far north for Arko
[17:21] <craag> arko: :P
[17:21] <nigelvh> arko and I will have to have a party.
[17:21] <nigelvh> MERIKUH!
[17:22] <pd3t> the state washington that is not the city
[17:22] <arko> nigelvh: set your radio up!
[17:22] <nigelvh> The *real* washington
[17:22] <nigelvh> Only losers go to Washington DC
[17:22] <pd3t> lol
[17:23] <nigelvh> We have LOTS of APRS coverage here in Seattle, but I'll set up my reciever when I get home from work.
[17:24] <arko> just do it anyway
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[17:24] <arko> i would do it just to rx a leo payload
[17:24] <nigelvh> Haha
[17:24] <pd3t> took it 4 days
[17:24] <arko> :( not LA
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[17:25] <arko> i wish it would come here
[17:25] <nigelvh> Also, I'm a terrible person because I secretly hope it pops nearby so I could recover it.
[17:25] <pd3t> *it took 4 days to get across
[17:25] <pd3t> lol
[17:25] <arko> pd3t: we might get all the backlog!
[17:25] <pd3t> start dl-fldigi
[17:25] <arko> LeoBodnar: !!!
[17:25] <pd3t> 434.500
[17:25] <nigelvh> *nearby being within a few hundred miles.
[17:25] <arko> WHEREARE YOU
[17:26] <pd3t> dinner time there
[17:26] <nigelvh> I still want to know what magic he's done with these custom balloons.
[17:26] <aadamson> OMG, we are "B"eing invaded!!!
[17:26] <pd3t> very tiny payloads
[17:26] <aadamson> ok Laurenceb_ where is the hysplit, you are late already ... sheesh
[17:27] <nigelvh> pd3t: He also custom made the balloon itself.
[17:27] <nigelvh> Other people have done tiny payloads and not had this kind of flight.
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> yo!
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> wazzzup?
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[17:28] <arko> DUDE
[17:28] <arko> B-64!!!!
[17:28] <LeoBodnar> lol
[17:28] <arko> DUUUUUDDDEEEEE
[17:28] <arko> congrats :)
[17:28] <SgtBurned_> xD
[17:29] <SgtBurned_> Looks like I joined at the right time...
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> thanks need to go check it out
[17:29] <arko> why is it not in los angeles :(
[17:29] <pd3t> i see leo is al excited ;)
[17:29] <nigelvh> Because Washington is way cooler.
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> for once you are in the wrong place
[17:29] <arko> *sigh*
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> moving fast
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> is it going to Canada as well? to join it bro?
[17:32] <LeoBodnar> its
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> broloon
[17:32] <nigelvh> Haha
[17:33] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: Is B-63 and/or B-64 going to do a circumnavigation....
[17:33] <pd3t> leo for now it looks lik it. but we don't have enough receives yet
[17:33] <LeoBodnar> need to use more PATH next time
[17:34] <pd3t> speed 96km/h
[17:34] <pd3t> more path i got it on my receiver when it was in france through aprs.
[17:34] <nigelvh> WIDE2-1 should be plenty of path
[17:35] <pd3t> it just got within range of anyone to be able to receive it
[17:35] <pd3t> its still above water
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[17:36] <jcoxon> hooray B-64
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> </path troll>
[17:36] <DL7AD> :D
[17:36] <pd3t> hahaahaha
[17:36] <pd3t> M0XER-4>APRS64 via KOPEAK*,WIDE2,qAR,BALDI
[17:36] <pd3t> This station appears to be flying at high altitude and using digipeaters, which causes serious congestion in the APRS network. The tracker should be configured to only use digipeaters when at low altitude.
[17:36] <nigelvh> Nice, path is even hitting Baldi. I have some gear up there at baldi
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> gtfo aprs.fi
[17:36] <pd3t> lol
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> we had extra 3 hours of coverage in Canada yesterday thanks to WIDE2-1
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> that's 100+ geek-pleasure-hours
[17:38] <pd3t> bat 4.2V
[17:38] <arko> has anyone done a hysplit?
[17:38] <pd3t> solar 0.6V
[17:38] <amell> yay for B-64.
[17:38] <nigelvh> pd3t: Yep. 10:38AM here.
[17:39] <jcoxon> interesting how close to B-63 it was/is
[17:39] <jcoxon> re-appeared almost the same spot
[17:39] <amell> how long to catch up the log?
[17:41] <Maxell> craag: oh sure! :P
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> it's coming in
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> 2000UTC 23/07 now
[17:42] <pd3t> LeoBodnar: how does it transmit backlogs?.
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> adding to APRS comments
[17:43] <pd3t> are you using the comment field in aprs ?.
[17:43] <amell> why do americans keep calling the ocean to the west atlantic ? :)
[17:43] <pd3t> indeed
[17:43] <pd3t> lol
[17:43] <amell> I got news for you guys. its called the Pacific.
[17:43] <nigelvh> Oh sweet, I didn't realize this, but I just spoke to one of my colleagues, and the Baldi igate is using the network we've deployed, so we're seeing packets through my network
[17:43] <nigelvh> Yay me!
[17:43] <arko> going to be a nice to get a complete path LeoBodnar :)
[17:44] <jcoxon> nigelvh, nice
[17:44] <amell> arko: not getting in your car to chase B-64? :)
[17:44] <amell> B-66 wont be far behind. Leo is pwning you americans.
[17:44] <nigelvh> Haha
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[17:44] <nigelvh> Well, honestly my flights we'd prefer NOT to float
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> B-66 hysplit had it over Vancover tomorrow...
[17:45] <DL7AD> B-66 flew a completely different route amell
[17:45] <arko> amell: how many habs have you done?
[17:45] <amell> arko: chased plenty :)
[17:45] <arko> looks like you brought piss to shit fight
[17:45] <nigelvh> LeoBodnar: How much power on APRS are you using?
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> 10mW
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> m for milli
[17:46] <nigelvh> Nice, does suprisingly well with FM
[17:46] <nigelvh> My most recent flights have been at 100mW
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> yeah, we are stumped too
[17:47] <jcoxon> you launched 2 balloons half the world away and yet they are still following a path 10s of km from each other
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> it's been reproduced many times buy now so pretty much a fact
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> by
[17:47] <nigelvh> Yeah
[17:48] <nigelvh> Also, what is the magic of your custom balloons?
[17:48] <arko> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170328_trj001.gif
[17:48] <nigelvh> Makes me pretty tempted to try sending one your way
[17:48] <arko> :( no los angeles
[17:48] <amell> nigelvh: he slathers them in Leo special sauce.
[17:48] <nigelvh> He must
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[17:48] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170366_trj001.gif
[17:49] <amell> looks like a better route for B-64
[17:49] <nigelvh> Indeed
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> aprs all the way
[17:50] <nigelvh> Yeah, that's much friendlier in terms of getting packets.
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> Is 123_chase just a typo?
[17:51] <nigelvh> Also LeoBodnar It looks like you're using a LiPo, what size did you throw in there?
[17:53] Action: arko crosses his fingers
[17:53] <arko> come on b-66
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[17:53] <Laurenceb_> b-66 is forecast to end up in same area tomorrow
[17:54] <arko> nigelvh: nice work on the node, just read that
[17:54] <arko> :)
[17:54] <arko> Laurenceb_: aww ok
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[17:54] <stilldavid> but I want it to go over _my_ house!
[17:54] <stilldavid> tell it to go to CO!
[17:54] <on4bhm> has anyone got sample circuit for the SPV1040?
[17:55] <nigelvh> arko the igate has been there for a while, but I work with a group that has been deploying high speed wireless around the area. hamwan.org
[17:55] <arko> :) nice
[17:55] <nigelvh> Our side has a current network map
[17:55] <nigelvh> site*
[17:55] <pd3t> put on a receiver on usb and try to decode it that way instead of aprs ;)
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[17:57] <arko> stilldavid: lol
[17:57] <nigelvh> Well the plots look like it should go pretty squarely over my place.
[17:57] <Upu> on4bhm google spv1040 datasheet/application notes
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[18:02] <LeoBodnar> yeah as Upu said ^^ ST datasheets
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[18:03] <DL1SGP> hi all
[18:04] <aadamson> fyi - just now on GPSL - list - "The Yellowknife i-gate is back up and operational. It has been hearing
[18:04] <aadamson> stations on RF for about an hour and a half now, but nothing from
[18:04] <aadamson> M0XER-3.
[18:04] <aadamson> http://aprs.fi/ve6wd-11"
[18:06] <DL1SGP> thanks for the information aadamson
[18:07] <arko> Laurenceb_: have you run a hysplit with the past data for B-66?
[18:08] <arko> using what the actual winds were
[18:08] <arko> to see where B-66 could be
[18:08] <Laurenceb_> will do
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[18:09] <DL7AD> already done
[18:09] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=170386
[18:10] <DL7AD> thats for B-66
[18:10] <arko> OMG
[18:11] <arko> thats aimed for me
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[18:11] <jcoxon> arko, you'll explode if it makes it to you
[18:11] <arko> yes
[18:11] <arko> i will
[18:11] <arko> i have given upu, daveake, and leo my phone number
[18:11] <arko> they have permission to wake me up in the middle of the nigh
[18:11] <arko> t
[18:11] <arko> at any hour if it shows up near los angeles
[18:12] <jcoxon> arko, make a balloon alert siren
[18:12] <arko> hahaha
[18:12] <arko> with a red lamp
[18:12] <jcoxon> yes
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170981_trj001.gif
[18:12] <nigelvh> AWOOOOOOGAAAA
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> most likely Washington
[18:12] <nigelvh> Because WA is where it's at.
[18:12] Action: nigelvh gloats.
[18:12] <DL1SGP> arko. get your tinfoil hat ready :D
[18:13] <LeoBodnar> looks like we have lost som log data with B-64
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/171018_trj001.gif
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> not sure why
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> cold
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> radiation even
[18:14] <arko> Laurenceb_: i want to believe
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> event
[18:14] <DL7AD> radiation?
[18:14] <LeoBodnar> yeah, for technical reasons
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> if the battery died?
[18:15] <DL7AD> so theres no data over the pacific?
[18:16] <LeoBodnar> not all
[18:16] <Laurenceb_> has it already done the full log?
[18:17] <arko> LeoBodnar: could crossing the date line have effected this?
[18:17] <arko> also, i've made it easy to aim: http://i.imgur.com/aouru2L.jpg
[18:17] <nigelvh> Good question
[18:17] <Laurenceb_> B-63 managed ok
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/171018_trj001.gif
[18:18] <LeoBodnar> lol
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> ^is all out of range of APRS
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> looks like tomorrow at earliest for B-66
[18:21] <BullDoger> b-66 probably over pacific then?
[18:21] <arko> yes
[18:21] <BullDoger> umm, wonder if b-63 will re appear
[18:22] <BullDoger> I see b-64 made it across UK
[18:22] <BullDoger> OK*
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[18:24] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: maybe B-64 battery froze?
[18:24] <mikestir> wooyay b64
[18:25] <mikestir> arko must think it's his birthday
[18:25] <LeoBodnar> it must have reset at some point
[18:25] <arko> mikestir: p much
[18:25] <arko> just waiting for B-66 now
[18:25] <Laurenceb_> last log datapoint is at dawn
[18:26] <LeoBodnar> i think it's my reset code
[18:27] <LeoBodnar> does it screw up your FIA montecarlo magic?
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> heh what magic
[18:28] <Laurenceb_> the log point is quite close to japan, and far south
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[18:30] <LeoBodnar> that's very scientific
[18:30] <nats`> Science is magic bitch ! :)
[18:31] <nats`> Wouhouuu too much french wine...
[18:31] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar glad to see B-64 made the Pacific crossing from Japan!!
[18:31] <F1VJQ> now off Washington/Oregon
[18:31] <BullDoger> Hopefully it doesn't go off to the depths of canada
[18:32] <F1VJQ> It even crossed B-63 path twice!!
[18:34] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, can you use the aprs sequence number to determine if a reset occured?
[18:34] <on4bhm> someone drawn a board for the SPV1040 yet?
[18:35] <aadamson> I know it rolls over anyway, and given the duration it may have
[18:35] <aadamson> on4bhm, sure, a handful of us have
[18:37] <on4bhm> can i use them perhaps? i'm no engineer but an it guy... programming the µC was my stuff... chargers and pcb's are not...
[18:37] <on4bhm> i feel a bit stuck on that hardware part
[18:37] <aadamson> google is your friend, did you do as upu suggested and google spv1040?
[18:38] <aadamson> there are applications notes that address the design
[18:38] <LeoBodnar> reset preserves the count [19:34] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, can you use the aprs sequence number to determine if a reset occured?
[18:38] <aadamson> yeah figured it might...
[18:38] <aadamson> was just a shot in the dark
[18:38] <on4bhm> yes
[18:38] <on4bhm> i got a schema
[18:39] <on4bhm> but a schema is not a print... :(
[18:40] <aadamson> Everyone's implementation of a board is going to be unique to their own design, so having a print as you call it isn't going to help you much
[18:41] <on4bhm> i see it modular. i'm using arduino mini pro for the µC
[18:41] <on4bhm> all the rest was wire it up.
[18:41] <on4bhm> this charging stuff is different...
[18:41] <on4bhm> never worked with smd's before
[18:42] <on4bhm> except solder a few...
[18:42] <aadamson> exactly and why you won't be able to just take someone else work and make it work... voltages will be different, etc. And I don't think anyone is using the solar controller by itself there is usually an smps associated with it
[18:42] <on4bhm> what is smps?
[18:42] <aadamson> congrats LeoBodnar on #2
[18:43] <aadamson> on4bhm, switching power supply
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> thanks #2!
[18:43] <on4bhm> we are talking here about solar panels and lipo chargers no?
[18:43] <on4bhm> not power supply's
[18:44] <aadamson> on4bhm, . e.g. the bottom board is an smps and pv controller, the pv controller can't do both - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2438.JPG
[18:45] <aadamson> so most of us that use it, use the pv controller with some form of power supply to convert the lipo voltage to what we use on our boards... but it varies all over the map on how/what people use
[18:48] <G8KNN> Congratulations Leo. Attack of the killer B's continues....
[18:50] <daveake> fdave
[18:50] <daveake> erm
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> thanks!
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[18:54] <Laurenceb_> assault on america
[18:54] <on4bhm> now i'm using the lipo direct no power supply to convert.... 3.7v on everything.... even the gps from hab supplies... works perfect
[18:54] <on4bhm> just made 36hours on 1000mAh lipo
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[18:55] <on4bhm> now trying on 200mAh of 6grams
[18:55] Nick change: Acton -> Richard
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> well you can stack up 6 solar panels and use them to charge battery for ghetto solution
[18:55] <on4bhm> as the lipo runs low... the tone of my rtty shifts
[18:55] <LeoBodnar> 6-7
[18:55] <Richard> JUst wat we need another illeagal alien
[18:55] Nick change: Richard -> Guest79730
[18:55] <OZ1SKY_5B> LeoBodnar Hi Leo, fantastic fligths, contrats. Now we are just waiting for B-66 and the first one to cross the atlatic, back home :-)
[18:56] <snelly> hi guys
[18:56] <LeoBodnar> ta Brian
[18:57] <snelly> LeoBodnar: I'm very curious about the payloads you've designed for the your balloons
[18:57] <Guest79730> I am listening for MOXER-4 It looks it will pass near the North of the Columbia river
[18:57] <snelly> have you posted any details of them someplace?
[18:57] <Guest79730> oops I not chage my nick name
[18:57] <aadamson> snelly, - leobodnar.com/balloons/
[18:58] <on4bhm> aadamson: what is the middle print?
[18:58] <snelly> aadamson: I was hoping for some PCB designs :)
[18:58] <aadamson> 1 cell AA or AAA boost controller
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[18:58] <aadamson> snelly, good luck with that...
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[18:59] <aadamson> :)
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[18:59] Nick change: Guest79730 -> KG7CSS
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[18:59] <on4bhm> is the bottom print like the application note?
[18:59] <snelly> I'm curious what µC he uses
[18:59] <snelly> and curious about the software
[19:00] <aadamson> the latter is assembly ,the former a Pic I believe
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[19:01] <snelly> wow, cool
[19:01] <on4bhm> aadamson: was that last sentence for me?
[19:01] <snelly> is the PIC acting as the TNC as well?
[19:01] <aadamson> on4bhm, no, for snelly
[19:01] <on4bhm> ok understand his threat now
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[19:02] <on4bhm> aadamson: is the bottom print with a SPV1040?
[19:02] <aadamson> it is
[19:03] <on4bhm> why is there a usb connector?
[19:03] <snelly> strange how aprs.fi doesn't show the stations which have heard the M0XER balloons
[19:03] <aadamson> because the power board can take pv, lipo or usb (the later for development)
[19:03] <snelly> It shows them on the map but not in the Info page
[19:04] <on4bhm> you don't use this board during flights?
[19:04] <aadamson> that was a development version, the flight one is the same minus the usb
[19:04] <on4bhm> ok
[19:04] <on4bhm> i guess i have to learn eagle than.... :(
[19:05] <on4bhm> if this stuff is not public
[19:05] <KG7CSS> I wonder about why not much info on Moxer on aprs.if
[19:06] <aadamson> it's public... the entire design is right there - http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/application_note/CD00292052.pdf
[19:06] <aadamson> KG7CSS, because it's m0xer-?
[19:07] <KG7CSS> I think ther not many IGates in the nothern Washington area
[19:08] <aadamson> KG7CSS, not sure what you are talking about... http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0XER-4&timerange=3600&tail=3600 - zoom out and roll your mouse over the track, you'll see what heard it.
[19:08] <KG7CSS> I up right now KG7CSS I beacon using WIDE2-1 but I am not seen on APRS.if execept TCIP
[19:09] <aadamson> it's only running 10mW (milli watts) and it barefly made landfall at it's outer range
[19:09] <nigelvh> Yeah, there's lots of igates here in washington
[19:09] <nigelvh> It's still just a ways out, and fairly weak signal
[19:10] <KG7CSS> if I switch to WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 then I am seen on infill reapters I live on a side of a house
[19:10] <KG7CSS> that dosen't do much good
[19:10] <KG7CSS> side of a hill
[19:10] <snelly> KG7CSS: there are tons of them
[19:10] <nigelvh> KG7CSS: Please never use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 on a balloon
[19:10] <snelly> I'm hoping M0XER-4 will fly right over me in a few hours
[19:10] <KG7CSS> I will not jut moble
[19:10] <nigelvh> WIDE2-1 is plenty for a balloon
[19:11] <nigelvh> WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 is fine for mobile
[19:11] <nigelvh> Balloons have significant LOS advantage.
[19:12] <KG7CSS> yes I know but I am referign to ground tracking stations.
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[19:17] <aadamson> mikestir, was on4bhm the guy you had all the discussion about with using raw lipo on 3v3 parts?
[19:17] <mikestir> could have been
[19:17] <mikestir> I remember there was a complete failure to understand the concepts of data sheets and absolute maximum ratings
[19:18] <aadamson> ah, sounds familiar
[19:18] <aadamson> I thought I caught the tail end of that, then when he mentioned it, the light went on...
[19:19] <mikestir> I think he decided to ignore me anyway, and it didn't immediately melt so it must be fine
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[19:19] <aadamson> arko, probably won't work (never seems to for me from atlanta) - but I'm coming your way tomorrow night (if the wind gods allow) http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/171080_trj001.gif
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:20] <aadamson> oh and the thunder gods... :)
[19:20] <mikestir> aadamson: if he comes back you might want to suggest he reads the abs max bit of any datasheet, particularly the bit about long term stress and device malfunction
[19:21] <aadamson> yeah... I should talk - a 1.8v device max 1.9 and I *was* feeding it 2.0v :)
[19:21] <mikestir> of course it seems the concept of actually learning some engineering is alien these days
[19:21] <aadamson> fixed that already tho
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[19:22] <aadamson> yeah, he wanted a pv controller, but it wouldn't have done any good to give him one,
[19:22] <aadamson> none of the ones that I know of are just the pv controller on a board alone ...
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yay B-64 back on tracking
[19:22] <mikestir> of course if he connects it to a solar charger as well then the rail is going to be at 4.2V, and then I'm sure it will go bang straight away
[19:24] <aadamson> indeed mikestir
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[19:48] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, is 64 doing mfsk in the us by chance?
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> no, 434 is off over NA
[19:49] <aadamson> k, thanks
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> and SA too
[19:49] <LeoBodnar> :D
[19:49] <fsphil> SA or SA?
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[19:53] <GadgetDroid> Evening ball
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[19:55] <F1VJQ> Formal dress code GatdgetDroid?
[19:56] <F1VJQ> Formal dress code GadgetDroid?
[19:56] <GadgetDroid> Hehe. No silly tablet keyboard
[19:58] <DL1SGP> Good Evening GadgetDroid, bonsoir F1VJQ
[19:59] <F1VJQ> Hi DL1SGP and GadgetDroid
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[20:05] <fsphil> GadgetDroid: lol, nice
[20:05] <OZ1SKY_5B> fsphil americas all together i think :-)
[20:05] <nigelvh> Yeeees M0XER-4, keep coming closer to my house.
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[20:05] <Upu> 100 HAB points for recieving it personally nigelvh
[20:06] <fsphil> points for getting a photo of it in flight
[20:06] <nigelvh> Well, every packet going through baldi is going on a network I built, that's got to count for something.
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[20:07] <OZ1SKY_5B> Upu ive still to find the HAB coupon in your shop :-)
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[20:07] <Upu> coupon ?
[20:07] <myself> I first read that as "retrieving"
[20:07] <Upu> UKHAS
[20:08] <OZ1SKY_5B> yes to get the discount for hab points .-)
[20:08] <Upu> oh that wouldn't be a bad idea :)
[20:08] <OZ1SKY_5B> lol
[20:08] <Upu> I think you'd be getting free stuff :)
[20:08] <fsphil> I dunno, leo has enough that you'd have to pay him
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[20:08] <DL1SGP> hej Brian, enjoy your holiday!
[20:09] <nigelvh> Anyway, I plan to turn on my radio when I get home in a couple hours, and I should be able to pick it up.
[20:09] <nigelvh> Get those delicious delicious hab points.
[20:09] <OZ1SKY_5B> Upu should be a HAB award to ern points for :-)
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[20:09] <mikestir> on4bhm: I see you chose to ignore my advice about not over-volting the GPS
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> HABcoins
[20:09] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL1SGP Hi, yes very much, just too meny brits LOL
[20:10] <astrobiologist2> SUWS webSDR: can somebody give me it's GPS coordinates?
[20:10] <fsphil> hah, habcoin. inflation will be a pain
[20:10] <astrobiologist2> I am trying to see if I have a good line ot sight to it from my current location
[20:10] <DL1SGP> haha OZ1SKY_5B :)
[20:10] <nigelvh> fsphil <- Man of the dad jokes.
[20:10] <astrobiologist2> I can hear some very loud aprs packets, and I can clearly see them on the websdr
[20:11] <GadgetDroid> One to watch out for when recovering payloads http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408578/Walker-Keith-Copper-stepped-poisonous-giant-hogweed-Whitley-Bay.html
[20:11] <fsphil> don't burst my bubble man :)
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[20:11] <OZ1SKY_5B> fsphil ill take my habcoin app to the pub next time and demand to pay with it
[20:11] <astrobiologist2> but I can't see any test transmissions of my own (of any sort) on the websdr
[20:12] <DL1SGP> could habcoins be mined through "generating" hydrogene?
[20:12] <OZ1SKY_5B> DL1SGP was hoping to track something, i have my ar8000 with me, but i gess i have too do with beer :-)
[20:12] <Upu> I'm travelling down to London tommorrow Oliver I'll take my handheld M0UPU-9
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> astrobiologist2 can you do something really basic, like transmitting form a speaker into a keyed mike?
[20:13] <astrobiologist2> LeoBodnar: I am not even so bothered about the aprs so much, I couldn't even see my cq calls etc on the websdr
[20:13] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist2: didnt you get some packets on aprs.fi?
[20:13] <daveake> #
[20:13] <daveake> 90==
[20:13] <DL1SGP> after a few beers you might hear pips in the AR8000 and transmissions that are not there for real, but entertain you... OZ1SKY_5B
[20:13] <Upu> hi daveake's cat
[20:14] <OZ1SKY_5B> lol
[20:14] <on4bhm> mikestir: i already done so before you said so.... sorry
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> are you stuck in your shed dave?
[20:14] <mikestir> I hate that GadgetDroid rickrolled me into looking at the daily mail website
[20:14] <astrobiologist2> matthbrejza: nope, whenever you see my location updating on aprs.fi it is solely over the Internet from the pocketpacket app :-(
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> if yes, press hash sign now
[20:14] <mikestir> on4bhm: yeah but it sounds like you're planning on continuing to run it that way because it hasn't blown up
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[20:15] <daveake> er, that was me dropping the netbook and catching it :/
[20:15] <mattbrejza> oh right
[20:15] <nigelvh> daveake: Nice
[20:15] <astrobiologist2> upu: thanks but I'm well to the southwest of London now
[20:15] <Upu> ok
[20:15] <daveake> went for a beer and nearly killed the netbook on the way
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> still worth it
[20:15] <daveake> true
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[20:16] <on4bhm> mikestir: if it hasn't already.... it will never i gues? or is that wrong gues? the less components te better... i'm already at 22gr :(
[20:16] <DL1SGP> your netbook might tweet about near-death-encounters soon, daveake
[20:16] <astrobiologist2> mattbrejza: I have no problem detecting other people's packets now, it is a tx problem?
[20:16] <mikestir> on4bhm: yes that's a wrong guess. you should look at the section in the datasheet called "absolute maximum ratings" and particuarly the note about prolonged stress
[20:16] <mikestir> you'll find that notice in the datasheet for pretty much any chip
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[20:17] <on4bhm> i will look for the µblox 7
[20:17] <mikestir> you also need to remember that if you put a solar charger on, which I think you were considering, then the rail will be at 4.2V+, not 3.7
[20:17] <Upu> 3.6V for the ublox
[20:17] <aadamson> on4bhm, mikestir and I had a conversation after you left... Also, you said you weren't going to deal with a power supply, but I guess you know that a fully charged 1S 3.7v lipo it's 3.7v, it's 4.2!
[20:17] <aadamson> ^ what mikestir said!
[20:17] <on4bhm> than i need another ddc converter again
[20:17] <Upu> yep
[20:18] <aadamson> now you know why we all use them
[20:18] <on4bhm> yes it is
[20:18] <Upu> solar charger -> buck -> 1.8V or whatever
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[20:18] <on4bhm> and its working... i guess i must be lucky ....
[20:18] <aadamson> for a while...
[20:18] <Upu> no they are very tolerant of stupidity but don't push it or it may go pop :)
[20:18] <on4bhm> what is a buck?
[20:19] <Upu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter
[20:19] <Upu> like a linear regulator but more efficient
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> try not to mix it up with Buk
[20:19] <on4bhm> too theoretical for me...
[20:19] <mikestir> on4bhm: the other risk is that it may not go pop, but it may break in subtle and hard to detect ways, almost certainly in the middle of your flight
[20:19] <Upu> lol
[20:19] <aadamson> good one LeoBodnar
[20:19] <Upu> needs to be less theoretical and less practical
[20:19] <Upu> err
[20:19] <mattbrejza> does aprsis32 show packets from the internet as well as over the air?
[20:19] <Upu> more practical
[20:20] <Upu> have you made a tracker at all on4bhm ?
[20:20] <astrobiologist2> I qm going offline for a bit since I am testing my bat detector!
[20:20] <astrobiologist2> detector!
[20:20] <on4bhm> before? no, my first one
[20:20] <astrobiologist2> bye
[20:20] <aadamson> what happened with one of mine... the LNA blew out on the antenna side of the gps
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[20:20] <Upu> ok can I strongly suggest you start a little simpler
[20:20] <Upu> just make it run from batteries first
[20:20] <daveake> +1 billion
[20:21] <on4bhm> i have time....
[20:21] <Upu> good
[20:21] <Upu> start simple then
[20:21] <Upu> work up once you have something you know to work
[20:21] <on4bhm> i'm planning on letting it up on a nylon cord for a few 100m....
[20:21] <on4bhm> let it hang there for a few days
[20:21] <mikestir> remember the nylon cord counts as payload mass
[20:22] <on4bhm> i know....
[20:22] <Upu> keep it simple
[20:22] <Upu> you can build on a solid foundation
[20:22] <Upu> you don't learn to drive in a Ferrari
[20:22] <on4bhm> my simple setup is laying in my garden now...
[20:22] <Upu> electronics
[20:22] <Upu> the balloon is the easy bit
[20:22] <on4bhm> i'm test driving already @4.2v !!
[20:23] <Upu> what you're doing is slowly killing the GPS I suspect
[20:23] <on4bhm> dropping to 0 at the end...
[20:23] <Upu> and the lipo
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[20:23] <aadamson> seriously dropping to 0 on a standard lipo?
[20:23] <mikestir> if it drops to zero it has a protection board on it, luckily for you
[20:25] <on4bhm> i can't tell
[20:25] <mikestir> it's important not to discharge a lipo below about 3.0V, but I guess if you look at yours you will see a little circuit wrapped in orange tape
[20:25] <on4bhm> yes the grey for the lipo itself
[20:25] <nigelvh> 2.8V is generally the safe cutoff.
[20:25] <on4bhm> and e little orange, brown strip
[20:26] <nigelvh> Below 2.5V is generally considered to start causing damage
[20:26] <aadamson> on4bhm, - https://learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/protection-circuitry
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[20:27] <on4bhm> cool video...
[20:30] <on4bhm> my hardware is still laying in the garden... beeping... so there is still juice in the lipo
[20:30] <on4bhm> doing rtty and listening to it with dl-digi
[20:30] <on4bhm> 8 sats on gps for the moment
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[20:31] <on4bhm> no voltage measurement yet nor temp
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[20:31] <on4bhm> every 3 mins telemetry at 50baud
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[20:37] <on4bhm> do bucks exist for 3.6V ?
[20:39] <on4bhm> ok, got one from adafruit for 3.3v
[20:40] <mikestir> you can run it lower than 3.3V to get a power saving
[20:41] <mikestir> although I think the NTX2B needs 3.0V so not that much lower
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[20:48] <Upu> NTX2B will run down to 2.7V
[20:48] <Upu> but power is reduced I think
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> does it have HW reset supervisor
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[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> evening astrobiologist
[20:51] <astrobiologist> bats detected!! (even if I can't get the aprs to work)
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[20:52] <amell> Leobodnar: did i misread you when you mentioned something about a difference in the software between B-63 and B-64?
[20:52] <maxmed> Evening all, as many of you know i have been having big problems with poorly patched together code; it has been recomended that I abandon that code and start again from scratch, which I think is a good idea. I feel I am able to write the code for getting the gps data and putting this together into a string and at a later stage sending this to an SD card. I don't feel able writing the code to send the datastring via rtty.
[20:52] <astrobiologist> have to give nipper shower
[20:52] <astrobiologist> phone not waterproof
[20:52] <astrobiologist> back again soon...
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[20:53] <gonzo_> not downloaded the waterproof firmware upgrade?
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> B-64 has faster log downloads
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> and more powerful bugs
[20:54] <maxmed> I would like to use the code on here: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 for the transmitting of the data. Is this sensible and before I start adding in my bits is there anything wrong with that code which needs adding, changing or removing?
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[20:55] <N2NXZ> Congrats on the success so far with the balloons Leo !!!
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[20:55] <N2NXZ> Cool stuff
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[20:56] <N2NXZ> Which APRS frequencies are used?
[20:56] <Upu> US one Jim
[20:56] <Upu> 144.390
[20:56] <Upu> in fact you are well placed
[20:56] <N2NXZ> I see that,jetstream looks as if it may swoop back towards me
[20:56] <daveake> maxmed good plan do that
[20:56] <Upu> you're close to where M0XER-3 should re-enter the States
[20:57] <DL1SGP> does any of ye folks know a neat little tool that just puts out the position (NMEA Sentence stuff) of an item I track through APRS reception on a COM Port of my choosing so that I might be able to use a third party cartography and have the position rendered there?
[20:57] <arko> good luck aadamson
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[20:57] <N2NXZ> Cool,I recently put up a 2m/70cm quad beam in the air.
[20:57] <Upu> Got an igate running
[20:57] <Upu> ?
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> Thanks N2NXZ
[20:58] <N2NXZ> I could in seconds,already installed and ready
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[20:58] <N2NXZ> Goingto keep my eye on this and be ready
[20:58] <on4bhm> leo: do your balloons change aprs freq. depending on where they are?
[20:59] <Upu> yes on4bhm they are frequency agile
[20:59] <on4bhm> what tx on 2meter does he use than?
[21:00] <Upu> radio ?
[21:00] <Reb-SM0ULC> evenign
[21:00] <on4bhm> radio module to transmit
[21:00] <Upu> same as the 70cms
[21:01] <on4bhm> do they exist in a version where you can change freq. programmaticly?
[21:01] <Upu> yes
[21:02] <on4bhm> what type?
[21:02] <Upu> See SI EZRadioPRO® family
[21:02] <Upu> there are lots
[21:02] <Upu> but
[21:02] <Upu> Again I suggest you start simple
[21:02] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
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[21:03] <Upu> at the core of that is an SI chip
[21:03] <mikestir> upu did you notice that hoperf have done what appears to be a 4463 based module? not seen it for sale anywhere yet though
[21:03] <maxmed> daveake: so that code is good, no glaring issues? obviously i need to lenghten the datastring and change the snprintf function but other than that i can leave it as is?
[21:04] <on4bhm> i'm using this right now
[21:04] <Upu> not noticed mikestir
[21:04] <Upu> I only use the 4060
[21:04] <on4bhm> just for my information....
[21:04] <qyx_> mikestir: you mean rfm26?
[21:04] <mikestir> the 446x is just the same but with the rx as well, which you can ignore
[21:04] <qyx_> they are available on ebay
[21:04] <mikestir> yes I think that's the one qyx_
[21:04] <Upu> yeah
[21:04] <Upu> 4464 can do 100mW
[21:05] <qyx_> also rfm24, which is si4460
[21:05] <mikestir> might be interesting to those not wanting to do a full RF layout, because with a crystal swap they could do contestia/olivia
[21:06] <qyx_> why do you need to swap crystals?
[21:06] <mikestir> to get the tone spacing
[21:07] <Willdude123> Do most people boards use the same chip as the arduino uno ?
[21:07] <qyx_> ah, are there strict constraints on fdev?
[21:07] <Willdude123> In terms of boards with chips?
[21:07] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Flerbl
[21:07] <mikestir> qyx_: the multitone modes mostly require tone spacing to be equal to symbol rate
[21:08] <mikestir> Flerbl: quite a lot do, but not all
[21:09] <daveake> Depends what you mean by "most". If you include all of Leo's flights there are probably more PICs flying these days than AVRs
[21:10] <Upu> Flerbl some people do , some use PIC's some use other micro controllers
[21:10] <Flerbl> mikestir: what is most of the stuff on the board? Is much of it superfluous for self-sustaining boards
[21:10] <Flerbl> Oops
[21:11] Nick change: Flerbl -> Flerb
[21:11] <mikestir> on the arduino uno?
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[21:11] Action: mikestir rummages in the drawer
[21:11] <Flerb> mikestir: yah
[21:12] <mikestir> voltage regulator and usb interface mainly
[21:12] <Upu> Uno is just an ATMega328P
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[21:12] <mikestir> I've just given away that I own an arduino :o
[21:12] <W7KKE> Just noticed B-64 is off the coast of Oregon. Good APRS, but is also transmitting contestia, & what freq?
[21:12] <Upu> with a USB interface and a small piece of code that lets you program it via serial rather than via ICSP
[21:13] <Upu> W7KKE just APRS
[21:13] <snelly> I hope I can get my radio fixed in time to hear it
[21:13] <W7KKE> Tnx.
[21:13] <Upu> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Breadboard-Arduino-Compatible/
[21:13] <Flerb> I think now is probably a good time to get back in to HAB, what with the ofcom consultation
[21:13] <Upu> thats basically how I started
[21:14] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/IMG_0307.JPG Genesis of my board
[21:15] <aadamson> quick slap a balloon on it, get it in the air!!! ^
[21:15] <on4bhm> anyone know where to buy SI4060?
[21:15] <mikestir> mouser, farnell
[21:16] <mikestir> or use the aforementioned rfm24 module
[21:16] <mikestir> and let us know how it goes
[21:16] <qyx_> on4bhm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HopeRF-RFM24W-433Mhz-Wireless-Transceiver-Low-Power-si4460-compatible-/171345542170?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e4fd7c1a
[21:17] <qyx_> for example
[21:17] <aadamson> wow, only a few dollars more than the chip itself
[21:17] <qyx_> rfm69 are even cheaper
[21:18] <qyx_> $3.60
[21:18] <on4bhm> it is a complete transciever?
[21:18] <aadamson> yeah, think those are the ones the fpv guys use all the time for openlrs
[21:18] <qyx_> also they are "si4060 compatible"
[21:18] <qyx_> i suspect china cloning
[21:18] <mikestir> all the hoperf modules are like that
[21:19] <mikestir> they may legitimately rebadge the chips
[21:19] <mikestir> e.g. the rfm69 is a semtech sx1231(h)
[21:19] <mikestir> rfm22 is silabs si4432
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[21:20] <aadamson> ah, it's the 22's that the openlrs guys use (or did, I think they are getting hard to find)
[21:21] <qyx_> on4bhm: yep
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[21:21] <qyx_> mikestir: might be.. or they are sx1231 low cost clones
[21:22] <qyx_> or maybe not
[21:22] <astrobiologist2> back from bat detecting
[21:22] <Upu> bat detecting ? I just walk the dog and look up
[21:22] <Upu> loads of the things
[21:22] <mikestir> qyx_: silabs actually mentioned hoperf as a module partner on their website for one of their devices, so I suspect they're legit
[21:23] <Flerb> It was really cool, they had a NASA program on a cubesat here
[21:23] <Flerb> And they mentioned amateur radio
[21:23] <qyx_> mikestir: good to know :)
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[21:23] <astrobiologist2> yep, my father took me and nipper to local bat haunts, could hear their sonar on the bat detector before we could see them, and then both at once so the detector works :-)
[21:24] <astrobiologist2> qrm from the keys in my father's pocket which basically jangled on the same frequency... (about 45khz)
[21:25] <mikestir> don't wear a shell suit while bat detecting :)
[21:25] <mikestir> s/while bat detecting//
[21:25] <astrobiologist2> chinos actually but we resolved it using padding!
[21:26] <GadgetDroid> Nice
[21:27] <astrobiologist2> so I will call it a tech draw for the day (aprs -1 bat detector +1)
[21:27] <mfa298> astrobiologist2: if you're down in Southampton some of the locals are often on 145.350. There's a couple of aprs gateways around the area but I'mnot sure there's much other aprs around.
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[21:29] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist2: you showed up on aprsis32, but i guess it was pulling it from the interwebs
[21:29] <mattbrejza> no idea how you differentiate
[21:29] <mattbrejza> or how it decides what to display
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[21:34] <on4bhm> i'm off to bed... good night all
[21:34] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza what I was doing was turning off the Internet connection to APRS-IS (can do this separately) and then leaving it for an hour or whatever TX'ing. can see plenty of packets rx but never see any hint that anybody has heard my packets. I have also tried sending messages to stations nearby. some have replied and said they never got any RF packets from me, only via the internet
[21:35] <mattbrejza> any indication the radio was txing?
[21:37] <astrobiologist> yes, there is a red LED that indicates TX. It came on actually in time with the tx packet frequency I set (every 30 secs etc) and the duration matched too (e.g preamble to wake up vox on my handheld, and postamble afterwards set on handheld to prevent clipping, etc)
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[21:43] <astrobiologist> if I had two decoupling capacitors in an audio circuit instead of one, what would happen?
[21:43] <qyx_> dc blocking capacitors?
[21:44] <astrobiologist> yes
[21:44] <qyx_> capacitor equations apply
[21:45] <astrobiologist> would it badly distort the audio?
[21:45] <qyx_> dc blocking capacitor forms a high pass filter
[21:45] <qyx_> if you place two parallel caps, their capacitance will double -> lower cut off freq
[21:46] <astrobiologist> I suspect they are in series
[21:46] <qyx_> if you place them in series, their capacitance will be slower -> higher cut off freq -> you man not hear low frequencies
[21:46] <daveake> unusual
[21:46] <qyx_> *lower
[21:47] <astrobiologist> basically my handheld (th-f7e) is connected mic-speaker and speaker-Ic to my ipad
[21:47] <qyx_> your ipad input impedance is very high, so the exact value should not matter much
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[21:49] <astrobiologist> there is a voltage divider for the handheld's speaker output. That works fine
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[21:49] <astrobiologist> (sorry guys, lost my connection there for a moment)
[21:50] <astrobiologist> the ipad's speaker output is connected to the handheld mic input via a blocking capacitor
[21:51] <astrobiologist> the circuit is basically identical to p45 of the th-f7e manual if anybody wants to look it up
[21:54] <astrobiologist> my ipad's mic connection seems absolutely fine without a blocking capacitor and it can listen to and decode packets
[21:54] <mattbrejza> well its nothing to do with the ipad mic?
[21:54] <mattbrejza> its the ipad audio out -> raido that isnt working?
[21:55] <mattbrejza> you reckon the ptt is at least working?
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[21:58] <astrobiologist2> Yep, and the vox is working (not ptt)
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[22:19] <astrobiologist> still looking at the th-f7e circuit diagram...
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[22:25] <astrobiologist> what happens if I take the blocking capacitor out?
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[22:51] <amell> I see B-64 is headed directly for Microsoft.
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[23:12] <astrobiologist2> playing with output volume on my ipad... handheld no longer detects by vox much below about half volume
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[23:17] <astrobiologist> so I'm clearly not swamping the handheld mic port
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[23:39] <Laurenceb> landfall
[23:39] <F1VJQ> almost
[23:39] <arko> wooo
[23:39] <F1VJQ> Chief Lighthouse Charley's
[23:40] <F1VJQ> or Shoalwater Bay Casino
[23:41] <F1VJQ> Yes... Welcome to USA
[23:42] <F1VJQ> Boing Boing ... Seattle
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[23:46] <nigelvh> F1VJQ: Yep. I'm going to be headed home after work pretty shortly, and I'll get my reciever running
[23:49] <F1VJQ> nigelvh I track Leo's ballons whenever I can... I live in SE UK, but in summer I am in SW France....
[23:50] <nigelvh> Nice. You probably get to track them much more frequently than I do. :)
[23:51] <F1VJQ> UK and nearer parts of Europe have many 70cm Ham receivers... but beyond there is only APRS
[23:51] <nigelvh> Yep
[23:52] <nigelvh> That's why we use APRS for most of the flights over here.
[23:52] <nigelvh> Because it's the infrastructure we have.
[23:52] <F1VJQ> Leo's flights are so accurately balanced for floats
[23:52] <nigelvh> Very much so, and seem to last really nicely. I'm very curious about his home made balloons
[23:53] <nigelvh> I'd be tempted to try and send one your way
[23:53] <F1VJQ> in UK and near Eu... we have keen and enthusiastic trackers... the best of Leo's ballons I have tracked went to over 400km
[23:54] <nigelvh> Yeah. If you're on the mailing list, I sent an email earlier today talking about the limitations here in the US.
[23:54] <F1VJQ> I do not know if Leo uses home made balloons, but he does balance the He fill
[23:55] <F1VJQ> yes, I'm on the list
[23:56] <nigelvh> I'm told these flights are using home made balloons, but perhaps I'm wrong.
[23:56] <F1VJQ> I think that Leo uses 1gram weights... and hangs them on the balloon... to achieve zero bouyancy
[23:56] <F1VJQ> he fills when just 2 gr or 3gr weights
[23:57] <F1VJQ> then removes weights
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[23:57] <F1VJQ> the ballons are 36inch foil party ballons
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[23:59] <nigelvh> Interesting
[00:00] --- Fri Jul 25 2014