highaltitude.log.20140723

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[00:12] <astrobiologist> nite all
[00:12] <astrobiologist> all/quit
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[00:41] <KhanhDang> Hi
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[00:42] <KhanhDang> I am a student at University of Virginia
[00:42] <KhanhDang> We are planning on launching a cube satellite by using a weather balloon
[00:42] <KhanhDang> However, we are encountering some issues with the radio station
[00:42] <KhanhDang> Could anyone please help?
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[00:48] <aadamson> KhanhDang, so what is the issue and what equipment are you using?
[00:49] <KhanhDang> aadamson, I am working with Kenwood TH-D72a and TM-D710a. I don't have any prior experience with these devices and don't know where to start. First, as shown in their Manuals, I attempted to connect them to an APRS server. But no luck.
[00:50] <KhanhDang> I don;t really know why
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[00:50] <aadamson> are you a ham?
[00:51] <aadamson> so I have a 72a as well... you dont' connect it to a server
[00:51] <aadamson> *traditionally* anyway... so let's back up.
[00:51] <aadamson> I'll assume you have a transmitter on the balloon that is doing aprs?
[00:55] <KhanhDang> Yes, I am HAM
[00:55] <KhanhDang> My group is going to mount the D72a on the payload to transmit data to the ground
[00:55] <aadamson> Ok, so you are going to use the D72a as the airborne radio
[00:56] <aadamson> that will need to be setup in APRS mode, the GPS enable the beacon rate set at whatever rate you want
[00:56] <aadamson> there should be a manual that tells you exactly how to do that
[00:56] <aadamson> now are you going to use the national APRS frequency? 144.390?
[00:57] <KhanhDang> I am thinking about that too.
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[00:57] <KhanhDang> However, if I get really high
[00:57] <KhanhDang> will the line of sight increase?
[00:57] <aadamson> Well, let's stop you right there
[00:57] <aadamson> I *doubt* the gps in the kenwood handheld is going to work above probably 16-18km
[00:58] <aadamson> *most* don't
[00:58] <KhanhDang> It would suck then
[00:58] <KhanhDang> so I need to have some external GPS?
[00:58] <aadamson> I've never looked at the specs, if they are even listed
[00:59] <aadamson> No, you need whats called a tracker (radio/gps/battery combo) that has a gps that can support up to 50km
[00:59] <aadamson> (most of the ublox modules will do that)
[01:00] <aadamson> I guess you could use an external module and run it into the d72a, but that's really a strange lashup)
[01:00] <KhanhDang> yeah
[01:00] <aadamson> What timeframe are you working towards?
[01:00] <KhanhDang> I think it is out of question because of space constraint
[01:01] <KhanhDang> We are going to launch in one month allegedly
[01:01] <aadamson> Are there any ham groups up your way that do balloon launches?
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[01:01] <aadamson> it would be worth getting with them if possible and looking at their equipment and getting educated about what it takes
[01:01] <aadamson> most of us have built our own airborne equipment
[01:02] <aadamson> there are some *how to's* was well
[01:02] <aadamson> most I would say are centered around the Arduino processor
[01:02] <KhanhDang> there is one high-school group that did this before, but I have not been able to get in touch
[01:02] <aadamson> While most of the guys on this channel are from the UK, they also have some really good info... starting point here - http://ukhas.org.uk/
[01:02] <aadamson> there are hardware and software guides there as well
[01:03] <aadamson> There are some US companies that make and sell dedicated airborne equipment
[01:03] <aadamson> Byonics makes trackers, some with gps, and some with radio all combined, not cheap, but self contained
[01:04] <aadamson> http://www.rpc-electronics.com/rtrak-hab.php - this is another
[01:04] <aadamson> Anthony - M0UPU on this channel also sells equipment from the UK
[01:05] <aadamson> was trying to find his store - http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[01:05] <KhanhDang> I really appreciate all the info, but I cannot buy any new components right noew
[01:05] <KhanhDang> I have to work with what I have
[01:06] <aadamson> Well, see if you can check the specs on the gps in the radio, but I really think you'll find that the gps won't work very high
[01:07] <aadamson> *if* it will... then the process would be as follows... put the d72a on 144.390, set the path to no more than Wide2-1 (it really should use no path, but the other will at least get you heard)
[01:07] <aadamson> then you don't have to worry about *your* on ground radio, the APRS network will pick up and you'll show on aprs.fi
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[01:07] <aadamson> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FM0XER-3&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[01:08] <aadamson> that is a live example of a balloon that left the UK over a week ago and is still in flight 2/3's the way around the globe
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[01:08] <aadamson> it's mostly using APRS, but has the ability to switch to other modes as needed
[01:09] <KhanhDang> Could you please specify what are the other modes?
[01:09] <aadamson> The integrated radio/gps/etc is in the pictures here - http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-10/index.html
[01:09] <aadamson> it's a long story and you really don't need to worry about it
[01:10] <aadamson> in the UK they can't use aprs in the air. so they use an ISM band frequency and a few different MFSK modes to sent out telemetry
[01:10] <aadamson> they use a number of people on the ground listening and sending that information to their own server for tracking (www.spacenear.us)
[01:10] <aadamson> but if you are the in US, the easiest thing to do is use the APRS network
[01:11] <aadamson> I sent this one up a week or so ago - http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FW7QO-11&timerange=259200&tail=259200
[01:11] <aadamson> doing exactly what you'd be doing, but with my own designed airborne equipment
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[01:12] <KhanhDang> that is really awesome. I wish I could learn more from you
[01:12] <aadamson> and I've got to run, will be back in about 30 mins or so... if you are here, I'm happy to answer your questions... I'm a newbie to all of this as well :)
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[01:14] <KhanhDang> Yeah. I am going to be around
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[01:25] <Ian_> KhanhDang are you located in the US?
[01:25] <KhanhDang> Yes
[01:25] <aadamson> ok, I'm back
[01:26] <Ian_> Just thought it prudent to ask. It's probably relevant to suppliers, rules etc. back to aadamson. I'm off to bed.
[01:27] <aadamson> I'm trying to see if I can find the spec on the gps in the d72a
[01:27] <KhanhDang> sweet dream man
[01:28] <KhanhDang> I have not been able to find it
[01:28] <aadamson> dang kenwood site, they have the worst setup for manuals
[01:28] <aadamson> or maybe it's world slowest...
[01:29] <KhanhDang> Even the in-depth manual does not help
[01:31] <kc2pit> KhanhDang: Is the D72 just for location tracking, or also for telemetry?
[01:31] <KhanhDang> It is for both
[01:31] <aadamson> so it uses the SiRFstar III chipset which is only good to 60k feet
[01:32] <aadamson> http://www.sja.com.tw/doc/SJ-301%20SiRF%20III%20Module%20specification.pdf
[01:32] <Ian_> http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/pdf/TH-D72AE_IDM.pdf
[01:32] <kc2pit> Hmm. My experience quits at the TH-D7A, but there, I don't know any way to do APRS and general-purpose data.
[01:32] <kc2pit> Maybe they made the D72 smarter.
[01:32] <aadamson> this is actually a limit with *most* of the consumer grade gps modules
[01:33] <aadamson> so KhanhDang if you have to use that radio, you'll have to put it in tnc mode and push an external gps to it via serial
[01:33] <aadamson> that external module will need to be something that has its own power, and can work up to higher than 60k feet assuming you are going higher than that?
[01:34] <aadamson> The modules most are fond of here are the ublox 6 or 7's
[01:34] <kc2pit> Any idea how much mass you can afford to add right now?
[01:36] <KhanhDang> Hold on. I need to look that up in my report
[01:37] <aadamson> KhanhDang, kc2pit brings up a really good question.. have you done a burst calc to see what balloon, how much weight you can carry, how high it will go, etc?
[01:37] <aadamson> http://habhub.org/ has some calculators, etc
[01:38] <kc2pit> 'Cuz I'm looking at an Adafruit Ultimate GPS breakout module on the desk in front of me. It's not a terribly difficult thing to strap that to a microcontroller (one of the teeny Arduinos would probably be the easiest option) and make it feed packets into the D72. And I think University at Buffalo Nanosat would be willing to loan it to a good cause.
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[01:38] <kc2pit> Oh, and it's tested up to ~100 kilofeet and is specified to work up to 40km.
[01:40] <KhanhDang> Right now, the total mass of our payload is 1.4 kg
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[01:40] <KhanhDang> However, there is no constraint on the mass.
[01:41] <kc2pit> So you've got 400 grams to play with until you even have to glance at the regulations, and probably 1300 until the limit.
[01:41] <kc2pit> As long as you have a suitably big balloon and enough gas, that is.
[01:41] <KhanhDang> the balloon will be provided by NASA
[01:42] <KhanhDang> I believe that it would be sufficient
[01:42] <kc2pit> That's terribly nice of them. How'd you swing that?
[01:42] <KhanhDang> This project is sponsored by NASA
[01:43] <KhanhDang> That is why it is really terrible if I mess it up
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[01:49] <kc2pit> I'd suggest a redundant tracker, then. We flew a SPOT tracker alongside our APRS rig, and as long as the thing doesn't land upside down, it provides a pretty good backup. Doesn't work at high altitude, but it does start working again on the trip down. Somebody might be able to loan one.
[01:50] <kc2pit> (Ours was borrowed, so I can't offer to be that somebody.)
[01:52] <kc2pit> If you know anybody who likes backcountry hiking, offshore boating, or that sort of thing, they'd be a good starting point.
[01:53] <KhanhDang> yeah. I will look for someone who has it
[01:53] <KhanhDang> Let's say I obtain the Spot Tracker
[01:53] <KhanhDang> I just go ahead connecting it to the D72a
[01:53] <KhanhDang> ?
[01:54] <kc2pit> SPOT is standalone. You put 3 lithium AAAs in it, point it toward the sky, and turn it on.
[01:54] <kc2pit> Then track it on their website.
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[01:54] <KhanhDang> I see
[01:55] <KhanhDang> I also have a question about transmitting telemetry data
[01:55] <kc2pit> It doesn't interact with the ham radio system at all; it's just an extra bit of insurance that you'll be able to find the payload in case something goes tits up.
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[01:55] <KhanhDang> I still need to figure out how to connect the D72a to APRS though
[01:58] <KhanhDang> On a website, I saw that I could use some sort of sound data sent out from the transceiver to get the telemetry data.
[01:58] <KhanhDang> But for sound data I need to use a frequency of 440. MHz
[01:59] <KhanhDang> On the D72a 440. Mhz is shown as Band B
[01:59] <KhanhDang> my question is that Could I switch from Band A to Band B remotely
[01:59] <KhanhDang> ?
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[02:00] <kc2pit> Dunno. The D7A can't.
[02:00] <kc2pit> But I'm not sure why that would be necessary, so it might be a misunderstanding.
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[02:01] <KhanhDang> May I ask you another question?
[02:01] <kc2pit> I'm reading http://wiki.complete.org/THD72PCAPRS right now, and while it's intended for running the radio with a PC instead of a microcontroller, it has some relevant descriptions of the radio's capabilities.
[02:01] <KhanhDang> When you first started working with radio, Where did you start?
[02:02] <KhanhDang> That is my big problem. I don't know where to start
[02:02] <kc2pit> All my friends were doing it.
[02:04] <kc2pit> I'd suggest looking up local ham clubs. You'll probably find a mix of people who like messing with technology (the ones you want) and old people who like to buy expensive toys that they don't really understand and then talk to each other about their latest colonoscopy and how worthless kids are nowadays.
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[02:04] <kc2pit> The latter are going to exist. Try to find the clubs that aren't completely overrun with them.
[02:06] <KhanhDang> haha. It is funny
[02:08] <kc2pit> The people who are in it for the tech are also going to love the chance to get college-age people exposed to ham radio, and to mess with a high-altitude flight. It's a matter of blind luck whether or not any of those are nearby and have time on their hands.
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[02:12] <KhanhDang> Is getting connected to a APRS server and getting shown up on APRS.fi different?
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[02:16] <kc2pit> I don't know much about the APRS internet segment, but it seems that aprs.fi displays anything that gets a packet to an igate.
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[02:30] <KhanhDang> kc2pit, thanks a lot. You have been a great help
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[04:51] <madist> I have a SiRF Star III gps unit that is sending out "$PS$PS$PS$PS$PS" over the serial port.
[04:51] <madist> What does that mean ?
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[05:43] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: Looks like UK balloon B-63 is doing a pass over the home of @IcePilotsNWT http://t.co/qJ4tYCv5kZ #ukhas
[05:45] <Upu> no idea madist
[05:45] <Upu> they don't work at altitude (SiRFIII)
[05:48] <madist> I was hoping it might be a common thing that someone else has seen before. I think its either a bootloader mode message or an error message. Its not in the manual. or I bought a faulty device.
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[06:17] <Chetic> has anybody else had trouble with python and the raspberry pi serial port not changing baud rate?
[06:18] <Chetic> I very explicitly open at 9600, read a line, close it, open it at 50, write a line and close it
[06:19] <Chetic> but I can still see over radio that it does not send at 50
[06:19] <Chetic> based on this https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB
[06:19] <Chetic> pretty sure I've seen that guy in here :)
[06:23] <Chetic> daveake: I want to buy a pi in the sky board so bad :|
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[06:54] <daveake> Chetic you can buy them now
[06:54] <daveake> They're in stock and first ones will go out this week
[06:55] <Chetic> where?
[06:55] <daveake> www.pi-in-the-sky.com
[06:55] <Chetic> curious how I couldn't find that when I googled
[06:56] <daveake> Speak to Upu - they're going up in his store very soon
[06:56] <Chetic> that link doesn't seem to work
[06:56] <Chetic> ok
[06:57] <UpuWork> yeah some shit bag is busy try to send a million mails via my server
[06:57] <UpuWork> bear with me...
[06:58] <madist> it was a low voltage error.
[06:58] <madist> power supply was 2.9V and SiRF III requires 3.1V min.
[06:59] <Chetic> roger that, UpuWork
[07:01] <UpuWork> should be back in sec just need to work out which of my customers they are exploiting this morning
[07:06] <F1VJQ> Link works now
[07:07] <UpuWork> should work now
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[07:07] <UpuWork> here is a clue if you're a web designer don't just grab scripts from random sites around the internet that are full of holes and let people spam on behalf of all web server operators everywhere thank you
[07:18] <sp2ipt> I was wondering - did anyone check the legal regulations throughoutly. We're having a little flamewar within HAM environment considering licenses and possibility of working from a place other than in the license permit. The bottom line is though we in SP should 1. Use ISM band (according to some authorities interpretations we can't work from a place that's on on the license) 2. Get a device type
[07:18] <sp2ipt> approval because it doesn't fall into HAM use (of course pay for it etc.)
[07:19] <sp2ipt> it's plain stupid but that's the siatuations for now in SP :/ Of course most people don't care (including me ;)
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[07:22] <F1VJQ> sp2ipt for use at locations other than that on the licence, use /p suffix. For ISM, since it is license-free there is no place specified, so that's irrelevant .
[07:24] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: according to our local regulations there are no /p /m /mm /am /whatever suffixes. We used to have them but now they're officialy gone :/ Don't ask why - I'd have to explain how hell got loose :)
[07:25] <F1VJQ> sp2ipt local regulators are therefore idiots
[07:25] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: the real question is: IS ising ISM band free or not. To be in 100% compliance with our law (at least the way now I understand it) we'd have to get a device type approval (it wasn't made for HAM use so it doesn't fall into testing exceptions)
[07:26] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: well it's a bit more complicated than that - let's just assume they were forced to remove them by some dumbass HAMs :/
[07:26] <F1VJQ> sp2ipt I don't know regs in Poland... I would have thought that same rules apply to all Eu
[07:27] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: they should, EU law is above each countrys law
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[07:29] <astrobiologist> *https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtNjRXrIAAEtxkJ.jpg:large
[07:29] <astrobiologist> this morning I iz doing.... APRS on a London bus
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[07:30] <astrobiologist> I heard a packet on 144.8... so they are out there somewhere... so now transmitting my own!
[07:30] <astrobiologist> could anybody near London listen out for my packets on 144.8 plz?
[07:33] <sp2ipt> BTW I found why I can't rx almost anything in the ISM band: http://wikimapia.org/22593675/Pionerksy-Radar-Station Guess I can't filter that out :/
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[07:41] <LeoBodnar> is that on sp7pki.iq24.pl or elsewhere sp2ipt ?
[07:42] <mfa298> UpuWork: I think that's something sysadmins can only dream of. Most webdesigner seem to thrive off finding the most convoluted script possible to do a simple task. Usually written in very buggy php.
[07:42] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: we're having current havon on PKI but there are some earlier things, sometimes only mentioned there
[07:43] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: havoc that is :)
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> is it working within Poland itself?
[07:44] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: yes, our local problems
[07:44] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: some people try to clear things up but not always in the most polite way
[07:44] <LeoBodnar> well my understanding of our UK laws is that prefixes define your working locale: main, alternative, mobile, portable, etc
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> however use of prefixes is not mandatory
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> so you can work from any location really without a prefix
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> *suffix
[07:47] <LeoBodnar> licence goes into great details about the difference between temporary and alternative locations and then states that suffix use is not mandatory
[07:48] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar once again written by bureaucrats with little understading!
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> well i think it is good because they are trying to simplify things
[07:48] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: in the old days we had to explicitly ask for a special permit to work /p etc. In more covilised political order we just had to use them without special permits. Now there was a mess caused by a few people who just had to show they're important and some things got removed from regulations
[07:48] <LeoBodnar> the only thing that is important is that if your primary location changes you must inform the regulators about that
[07:49] <F1VJQ> LeoBodnar there was a recent discussion where Ofcom had said that a GM operating in GW should use homecall.... clearly stupid!
[07:49] <LeoBodnar> since this is where the loicence is registered to
[07:49] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: of sourse it's a bit more complicated: had these regulations beed OK with the whole law system they would't get thrown away etc. We just have shite law
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> indeed F1VJQ
[07:50] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: I'd really appreaciate if we had such precise regulations in licenses. We just have a permit and that's about all :)
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> but i hope it is governed by common sense at the top level
[07:51] <LeoBodnar> do you have published exams questions?
[07:51] <F1VJQ> sp2ipt a permit with no rules... sounds like you do what you want!
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[07:52] <LeoBodnar> or preparation books?
[07:53] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: well there is just about one rule: you have to obey the current law. This sounds nice at first thought. It should be, but if the whole law system is screwed you end up in a big mess
[07:53] <LeoBodnar> i found that commentaries to the licence exam / sample questions are better at explaining things than licence terms themselves
[07:53] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: yes we do, unfortunately they are just too simple. We also don't have any practical exams :/
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> are you not scaring yourselves into a corner? who is currently interpreting and enforcing the law?
[07:54] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: we had a book explaining the rules in the old times. Now you're on your own :)
[07:54] <LeoBodnar> oh
[07:54] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: as I said: we have shite law :/
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> we have some strange laws as well
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> sticking a postage stamp upside down is an act of treason
[07:55] <gonzo___> the number of laws is inversly proportional to the qualityy of the ssytem
[07:56] <astrobiologist> I can hear somebody else's APRS packets but with a lot of static. my ipad couldn't decode them but is the problem the static or my ipad? how noise-resistant is aprs please?
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[07:56] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: I work at construction sites as an engineer - I've had to get to know our law a bit. Most of the time it's a normal person hell and attorney heaven :)
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> it has to be very sharp and clear
[07:56] <gonzo___> rather than have simple laws, there are half thought out ones, with a raft of sticking plaster to cover all the things they missed out
[07:56] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: oh, that stamp is a good one :)
[07:57] <astrobiologist> nobody picked up my packets either even though I'm close to the igate at UCL (whose packets I'm presumably hearing)
[07:57] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar: do you mean the aprs has to be heard sharp and clear or the laws have to be sharp and clear?
[07:57] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: it's FM so should be quite immune to static. Are you sure it's just not too high sound level? (and the inpuc A/D clipping)
[07:58] <LeoBodnar> i meant APRS signakl has to be quite punchy
[07:59] <sp2ipt> weird, I must spend more time writing on keyboard - inpuc instead of input. How the hell did I do that :)
[07:59] <F1VJQ> fat finger syndrome I guess
[08:00] <astrobiologist> I can barely hear the aprs over the static. so I guess nobody can hear me either
[08:01] <astrobiologist> that's by ear. I suspect the voltage divider on my cable is set too cautiously because full volume on my hand-held is about 2/3 full volume on the mic line on my ipad
[08:01] <astrobiologist> I don't know how strong my transmissions are (it is a very juryrigged cable)
[08:02] <sp2ipt> F1VJQ: probably right, or I'm just forgetting how to write :D
[08:02] Nick change: F1VJQ -> F1VJQ_away
[08:02] <astrobiologist> might buy a £30 baofeng or something to listen to myself
[08:03] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: are you absolutely sure it's static?
[08:03] <astrobiologist> It's just FRUSTRATING. I can't be more than 500 yards from that igate
[08:04] <astrobiologist> sp2ipt: I have no reason to suspect my handheld is broken. I can clearly hear faint packets in the background. I'm in the centre of London at ground level so is it just the buildings blocking the signal?
[08:05] <LeoBodnar> faint signal compared to static or to other signals?
[08:05] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: disconnect the interface and try to listen to the packets on a loudspeaker. Check if you have this static
[08:06] <LeoBodnar> static on FM when no signal could be massive
[08:06] <astrobiologist> sp2ipt that's what I've been doing
[08:06] <LeoBodnar> it's not really static it's just unlocked FM demodulator noise
[08:06] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: so is it static or just FM demodulator noise?
[08:07] <astrobiologist> I can't actually listen to the audio when it's connected to the ipad so I've disconnected it now to listen in
[08:07] <astrobiologist> sp2ipt: how do I tell the difference?
[08:08] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: disconnect the antenna - if the character (not the volume) of the noise doesn't change it's demodulator noise
[08:08] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: static is usually just random cracks, maybe vy high noise level for a few seconds - this sort of stuff
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> have you tried turning the squelch on?
[08:09] <LeoBodnar> you need to set sound level by the signal not static
[08:09] <astrobiologist> I disconnected the antenna, no difference
[08:10] <astrobiologist> It's solid white noise
[08:10] <LeoBodnar> open squelch usually has volume level way over the signal and will show up as overload
[08:10] <LeoBodnar> which is ok
[08:10] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar last night you told me no squelch :-)
[08:10] <sp2ipt> astrobiologist: so it's just demodulator noise - do as Leo says :)
[08:10] <LeoBodnar> lol we were talking about dl-fldigi and SSB i think :D
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> well you can leave your squelch off :D
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> just set the volume by the APRS signal, ignore static level
[08:11] <astrobiologist> :-)my squelch is a fairly blunt tool, just five bars
[08:11] <LeoBodnar> mine is ON / OFF :D
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[08:12] <astrobiologist> I have it on now and at my current location I am getting discrete packets now :-)
[08:12] <LeoBodnar> if your decoder has a recommended sound level only pay attention to it while the APRS packet is being received
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[08:13] <LeoBodnar> which might be not easy without audio monitoring and <1sec packets
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[08:13] <astrobiologist> I don't know how the decoder (PocketPacket) is working
[08:13] <LeoBodnar> sorry for confusing you
[08:13] <astrobiologist> workingbut nobody is bearing my outward bound packets either
[08:13] <LeoBodnar> for the record my PC APRS decoder works better with squelch off
[08:14] <astrobiologist> I had assumed that it could catch the packets with or without squelch
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> yes
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> it should
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> squelch opens in milliseconds
[08:14] <astrobiologist> squelchbut nothing, nada
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> and APRS packets usually have long preambles
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> ~100ms or longer
[08:15] <astrobiologist> I set mine to 500ms just in case!!
[08:15] <astrobiologist> but still not received by anyone
[08:15] <astrobiologist> but do they hear me as weakly as I hear them?
[08:15] <LeoBodnar> how do you know you are transmitting?
[08:15] <astrobiologist> I can see the red transmit light come on my handheld
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> it could be just carrier
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> or very low level
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> or very high level
[08:16] <astrobiologist> but what I'm actually transmitting... who knows
[08:16] <LeoBodnar> exactement
[08:17] <astrobiologist> pocketpacket seems reasonably happy with it, and decodes it's own transmissions (it won't do that if the volume is set too low)
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> you need to make sure you are transmitting decodable signal
[08:17] <gonzo_> the way I used to set up the radio drive from my TNCs, was to listen on a different radio to one of the nodes. As they would usually be set up for the correct deviation. And adjust for the same, by ear.
[08:17] <astrobiologist> arse. I think I need to buy a baofeng or a good sound interface for my ipad
[08:17] <gonzo_> That was when i had no test kit
[08:18] <astrobiologist> baofeng £30, sound interface £130 so presumably former!!
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> can you get on air and ask somebody to monitor your packet?
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> then TX APRS on their voice frequency and ask for signal assesment
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> as in does it go bzrzrzrzrz or not
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[08:18] <astrobiologist> I will ask later. just need to pop into the bank, I'll be back later! :-)
[08:19] <gonzo_> a 2nd cheap handheld and your ear
[08:19] <astrobiologist> gonzo_ are you married? :-)
[08:19] <LeoBodnar> astrobiologist you are truely portable ham worrior
[08:20] <gonzo_> (I was looking at the simple channelised beofeng, or whatever, hhelds recently. Can get them for a tenner!)
[08:20] <gonzo_> hehe, I hope you are not proposing!
[08:20] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar he'll yeah! on a bus! on a hill! on a train!!
[08:20] <astrobiologist> gonzo_ could slip a handheld for a tenner past the missus. where did you find it?
[08:21] <fsphil> gonzo_ and astrobiologist are married?
[08:21] <fsphil> congrats :)
[08:21] <astrobiologist> found the bank now, back in a mo
[08:21] <gonzo_> nope, not married, but even when shacked up, I didn't do the asking permission etc. That probably explains a lot though
[08:22] <astrobiologist> gonzo_ you probably were using the word "shack" in a different way to it's normal colloquial meaning :-)
[08:24] <gonzo_> That could be the other clue.... The radio room is not called the shack here, it's called the house
[08:25] <astrobiologist> bank not open till 10... will wait outside in a very posh café near st pauls. I will put all my ham stuff on the table and listen to aprs... and probably get a table to myself...
[08:25] <gonzo_> and sideways looks
[08:26] <SgtBurned> astrobiologist, Take the whole cafe :). When people walk in just yell "THE ALIENS ARE CONTACTING US! LOOOK"
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[08:29] <astrobiologist> SgtBurned: It's usually the "CQ CQ MIKE SIX OSCAR DELTA PAPA" bit that gets the looks
[08:30] <SgtBurned> ;) Best way to get a nice quite café
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[08:33] <Reb-SM0ULC> gonzo_: any special model?
[08:33] <SgtBurned> Does anyone have any info on a painless CRC16 Calculation?
[08:34] <fsphil> bottom of http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[08:34] <SgtBurned> Thanks fsphil
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[08:38] <SgtBurned> but the function / method _crc_xmodem_update I can't use :(
[08:38] <fsphil> ah you're not on an avr/arduion?
[08:39] <SgtBurned> Nope
[08:40] <fsphil> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__crc.html#gaca726c22a1900f9bad52594c8846115f
[08:40] <fsphil> avr-libc gives a plain C example
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[08:43] <SgtBurned> Awesome. Thanks.
[08:46] <astrobiologist> sitting outside st pauls with squelch on
[08:46] <astrobiologist> YES I can decode their packets! :-)
[08:48] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
[08:49] <astrobiologist> what is the update rate on aprs.fi? it isn't showing my current time for my callsign
[08:49] <astrobiologist> or does it not update if I haven't moved?
[08:51] <gonzo_> hmmm, looks like I was mistaken. The cheap handhelds only seem to be offered in UHF. VHF are a bit more. But a dual bander is only £20
[08:51] <astrobiologist> Ah or does aprs.fi show zulu time?
[08:51] <astrobiologist> gonzo_ if you could give me a make I will go and slather over amazon
[08:51] <LeoBodnar> you can set either
[08:52] <gonzo_> 321449038134 ebay as an example
[08:53] <astrobiologist> hmm, it says I last updated "an hour ago"
[08:53] <gonzo_> baofeng UV-5S, V/UHF dual bander. That;'s a crappy camo case, but think there are other options
[08:54] <fsphil> ironically it's the one that stands out the most
[08:54] <astrobiologist> what I really need i from my current location is to get my packets received by MB7UCL which is an iGate on the top of a UCL building
[08:55] <astrobiologist> but I don't see any traffic from MB7UCL in my raw packet flow
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[08:55] <gonzo_> yep, like the dayglo camo. Ok if you want to hide in anHSE convention
[08:56] <gonzo_> ohhh post man arrived with lots of stuff. And some live ammunition ! (OK, big fat elastic bands!)
[08:57] <F1VJQ_away> gonzo_ and a big bag of dried peas?
[08:57] Nick change: F1VJQ_away -> F1VJQ
[08:58] <astrobiologist> so I can receive packets... but is anybody receiving mine?... need to buy baofeng I guess
[08:59] <gonzo_> hehe, how long before they try to do someone for posessing peas
[09:00] <astrobiologist> all those baofengs are on the slow boat from china... sigh
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> dayglo camo?
[09:02] <astrobiologist> I se
[09:02] <astrobiologist> is this the same one? http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/181434698098?nav=SEARCH
[09:02] <LeoBodnar> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1797614_592621394153557_408526145_n.jpg
[09:02] <astrobiologist> it says "uv-5r uv-5s"?
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[09:05] <F1VJQ> 750Hz Brust Tone? I think they made a boob!
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[09:06] <F1VJQ> grins at LeoBodnar cartoon
[09:07] <edmoore> i don't think that's leobodnar
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[09:27] <fsphil> B-63 heading into the cold
[09:29] <craag> n6ara looking lonely and rejected
[09:29] <amell> good reception from the igate in BC.
[09:29] <fsphil> haha
[09:30] <amell> but will lose it over the horizon shortly.
[09:30] <amell> doing a hysplit now.
[09:30] <fsphil> that sounds painful
[09:30] <amell> you said it& :)
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[09:34] <maxmed> Hi, could this voltage regulator be used to power a ublox gps from a 9v block battery: http://www.amazon.co.uk/IC-REG-LD1117-3-3V-TO-220-3/dp/B00CSL4OF6/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1406107727&sr=1-3&keywords=3.3v+voltage+regulator#productDetails. ?
[09:35] <amell> holy crap. http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/199169_trj001.gif
[09:35] <amell> shows how much the forecast changes.
[09:36] <amell> if this is right, will be a long time before we hear from B-63 again
[09:37] <amell> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_199169&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
[09:38] <amell> 5 days or so, assuming theres no igates in canadian artic
[09:39] <edmoore> note that the blue and green are more and more meaningless as it heads north
[09:39] <edmoore> blue and green circles*
[09:40] Action: amell looks for blue and green circles?
[09:40] <amell> I see green circles. no blue circles
[09:41] <edmoore> on habhub or spacenear
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[09:42] <amell> oh the horizon calculations, yes.
[09:42] <maxmed> Anyone know about that voltage regulator, need to order in next 5 minutes!
[09:44] <craag> maxmed: It would work - but would not be efficient
[09:44] <lz1dev> amell: why do you think the horizon circle is meaningless?
[09:44] <craag> If battery life is not an issue - it will do nicely.
[09:45] <craag> otherwise look for a 3.3V switch-mode step-down
[09:45] <amell> lz1dev: i think you are asking the wrong person.
[09:45] <edmoore> it's me you want to ask
[09:45] <lz1dev> yes
[09:45] <edmoore> it's because the map is a mercator projection
[09:45] <lz1dev> so is the 'circle'
[09:46] <edmoore> so the actual horizon from the balloon's perspective doesn't project as a circle onto a mercator map
[09:46] <edmoore> that circle is projected properly?
[09:46] <lz1dev> yep
[09:46] <madist> maxmed: you are in luck! I have the information you seek!
[09:47] <madist> http://i.imgur.com/vj0mpHE.jpg
[09:47] <madist> ^ LM1117 on the blue PCB
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[09:47] <amell> the circle looks perfectly round to me, so how can it be projected properly?
[09:48] <lz1dev> the daynight overlay on the hmt
[09:48] <edmoore> oh it might be, because i'm confusing mercator and equal-area projections
[09:48] <lz1dev> is just a giant circle
[09:48] <Oddstr13> amell: square map of sphere ?
[09:48] <amell> yeah, okay then
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[09:49] <maxmed> Madist: do you mean LD1117 (ie the one I linked to or a different one)?
[09:49] <madist> they should be the same thing.
[09:49] <Reb-SM0ULC> time for yet another sunrise for the little B63 :)
[09:50] <maxmed> Ok, so just to confirm it will work fine but might drain battery quite quickly?
[09:50] <amell> wondering if the circle is adjusted for the same altitude over australia and greenland. it should be a lot larger over greenland compared to australia.
[09:50] <amell> even though greenland is much smaller than australia
[09:50] <edmoore> yes it would be
[09:50] <madist> maxmed: yeah. somewhat quickly.
[09:51] <edmoore> so the confusion is from me spending too much time in gpredict recently
[09:51] <edmoore> so mercator will preserve geometries
[09:51] <edmoore> whereas i'm thinking of equal-area projection which preserves areas
[09:51] <edmoore> but results in those familiar squashed-looking footprints
[09:51] <craag> maxmed: Correct
[09:51] <craag> maxmed: It would drain the battery about 2.5x more quickly
[09:52] <edmoore> so with mercator you can put a protractor on the map and say 'x is 45 degrees north east of y' and have that be the same in real life
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[09:54] <lz1dev> the google map ends at 85 degrees
[09:55] <lz1dev> but at 60 the distortion is not noticable at a glance
[09:55] <maxmed> Can you suggest a more suitable regulator then, what if I used 2 AA batteries instead would I then still want a regulator or just some capacitors?
[09:55] <lz1dev> to be fair, the circle is tiny
[09:56] <madist> maxmed: you need a regulator. if you're starting out in electronics I suggest you stick with the LM1117. It is foolproof.
[09:56] <edmoore> yes that's probably it
[09:56] <jededu> maxmed I use these http://www.tracopower.com/fileadmin/medien/dokumente/pdf/product_selection/TSR1.pdf
[09:56] <madist> a switching regulator is a little more complicated and you can make mistakes.
[09:56] <edmoore> i have been looking at projections over north canada for something else travelling higher and am used to seeing them quite distorted
[09:56] <jededu> With 4xAA
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[09:57] <jededu> 91% efficient
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[10:00] <Boelle_DK> I will get slammed with a frozen sea bass for this Q... but do any know a way to do remote control over APRS on the cheap?
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[10:02] <lz1dev> edmoore: http://i.imgur.com/9pdTo7j.png
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[10:03] <edmoore> I berieve!
[10:03] <lz1dev> gud
[10:03] <amell> thats a good illustration
[10:04] <amell> lz1dev: you are developer of snus?
[10:04] <lz1dev> no
[10:04] <UpuWork> hah
[10:04] <UpuWork> will be next week when I make the mt the primary
[10:06] <GW8RAK> Boelle_DK APRS has the facility to send a message with location data, so you could put instructions in there.
[10:06] <Boelle_DK> remote in the way that you could send out an APRS msg that could trigger cutdown....
[10:06] <amell> snus is being replaced? awesome.
[10:06] <lz1dev> UpuWork: move it to snus?
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[10:06] <Boelle_DK> GW8RAK: hehe... that is more or less what i thought
[10:07] <fsphil> snus2
[10:07] <GW8RAK> Don't see why it would not work. Just need a payload receiver
[10:07] <Boelle_DK> only wondered if others have done it on arduno platform so i could replicate some of it
[10:07] <lz1dev> its more like snus1.5
[10:07] <edmoore> Boelle_DK, have a go from scratch. but you find it won't be so hard
[10:07] <Boelle_DK> GW8RAK: yep.... i have modded the trackuino so its has arduino chip on the board and not a sheidl...
[10:07] <amell> i saw it a couple of weeks ago. looked great.
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[10:08] <Boelle_DK> GW8RAK: and then i thought why not a transceiver and a relay
[10:08] <edmoore> Boelle_DK, #ukhasnet might interest you
[10:08] <GW8RAK> A relay would be a bit wasteful on power but it's at the end of the flight anyway.
[10:09] <Boelle_DK> GW8RAK: relay was just an example....
[10:09] <GW8RAK> Just testing :)
[10:09] <Boelle_DK> edmoore: most on ukhasnet are in here also, but i'm in both places....
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[10:17] <pd3t> anything going up today?.
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[10:21] <SpeedEvil> b63 is rising at 0.1m/s
[10:23] <F1VJQ> can someone tell me if I can extract b-63 lat/long waypoints for the entire journey? I'm thinking of calculating the distance between each and arrive at currently flown km.
[10:23] <lz1dev> ok get a piece of paper
[10:25] <lz1dev> F1VJQ: 20,618 km
[10:26] <F1VJQ> lz1dev I was going to put them in an array, and do it in PHP!
[10:26] <lz1dev> you don't need to :)
[10:26] <lz1dev> http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/track.kml
[10:26] <edmoore> about half the world's circumference (at the equator)
[10:27] <F1VJQ> that's some distance...
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[10:31] <F1VJQ> lz1dev that would take some parsing!!
[10:32] <lz1dev> as i said you don't need to
[10:33] <lz1dev> open it in google earth, select the track segmenet, and in properties there is a section to give you the length
[10:34] <edmoore> it's instructive to look down on it from the north pole
[10:34] <edmoore> gives you more of an intuition for the distance travelled
[10:35] <edmoore> it looks a lot less far actually :)
[10:36] <F1VJQ> lz1dev not familiar enough with Google earth... not downloaded it
[10:37] <lz1dev> now is your chance :P
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[10:37] <F1VJQ> I have enough crap on this laptop!!
[10:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> GE is well worth the effort! Believe me!
[10:40] <edmoore> seeing balloon flight paths in 3d is useful]
[10:41] <craag> I make it 20,546.9 km by point-to-point distance
[10:43] <F1VJQ> craag well that's useful to know! I assume that's from waypoint to waypoint all along route?
[10:43] <craag> in habmap, the tail is stored in vehTails["B-63"]
[10:43] <craag> yep
[10:46] <F1VJQ> craag tails and habmap beyond my understanding!
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[10:47] <craag> F1VJQ: one mo..
[10:52] <edmoore> birds eye view of b63's flight
[10:52] <edmoore> http://i.imgur.com/DYhq6Mk.png
[10:53] <fsphil> taking the direct path home
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[10:56] <craag> habmap now calculates waypoint-waypoints distance for B-* payloads
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[10:57] <craag> doesn't seem to be affected by 'wrong-way-round' path bug
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[10:59] <edmoore> would it work if b63 had gone the other way?
[11:00] <F1VJQ> craag aha... very nice!!
[11:00] <F1VJQ> if calculated point to point, it won't matter which way
[11:01] <F1VJQ> each point to point is a straight line....and adds to the cumulative total... it has no need to know which way
[11:01] <craag> edmoore: No, it's a problem with the way leaflet visually handles scrolling across repeated projections
[11:02] <NigeyS> blimey b-63 is in the N.W territories
[11:03] <F1VJQ> <QUOTE>Leaflet doesn't try to do everything for everyone.</QUOTE>
[11:04] <craag> yep workaround is to detect crossing the date line and go > 180 instead of looping round to -180
[11:04] <craag> Haven't got time to add that right now
[11:06] <F1VJQ> craag could consider making range 0-360 rather than -180 - +180
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[11:07] <lz1dev> craag: yes, sicen you don't take altitude into account
[11:07] <lz1dev> craag> I make it 20,546.9 km by point-to-point distance
[11:07] <craag> Yeah I was thinking ground distance
[11:08] <craag> 3D is suppose is a little more impressive :)
[11:08] <lz1dev> http://jsfiddle.net/Qq7JT/
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[11:21] <Laurenceb_> habmap?
[11:21] <Laurenceb_> is that a site?
[11:23] <lz1dev> http://i.imgur.com/05Uih51.jpg
[11:23] <lz1dev> http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/
[11:23] <lz1dev> oh
[11:24] <lz1dev> i guess leaflet doesn't handle wrapping of paths very well :)
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> i dont see total path anywhere
[11:24] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_ !
[11:24] <NigeyS> Fancy a trip ? :)
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> where to?
[11:25] <NigeyS> Cardiff
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[11:25] <Laurenceb_> maybe.. what to do?
[11:25] <NigeyS> tetroon making :)
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:25] <Laurenceb_> im busy for the next few weeks at least, sorry
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[11:26] <Laurenceb_> work and stuff
[11:26] <NigeyS> itll be a couple of months
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[11:55] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12460_trj001.gif
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> about 4 days to uk still
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> lots of APRS
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[11:59] <Laurenceb_> if we assume its isobaric and close to existing conditions
[11:59] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12568_trj001.gif
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[12:02] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12598_trj001.gif
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> and for B-66
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12676_trj001.gif
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> might appear later today
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[12:27] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: insane
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[12:31] <NickB_> B-63 has been flying for 15 days??
[12:31] <NickB_> crazy
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[12:48] <amell> Laurenceb_: that looks completely different to the chart i did earlier:
[12:50] <amell> lz1dev: we need to calculate distance flown based on FAI rules.
[12:52] <amell> so B-63 finally out of coverage
[12:53] <amell> i was expecting b-66 to have reappeared by now.
[12:53] <lz1dev> why FAI ?
[12:54] <amell> for formal record ratification.
[12:54] <amell> i suppose it depends what rules the ARHAB guy wants to use, current they state great circle'
[12:57] <lz1dev> if you want accuracy, then WSG84 ellipsoid is the best approximation for earth
[12:58] <lz1dev> and you can include ascent descent
[13:00] <edmoore> the FAI rules looks somewhat complicated
[13:00] <edmoore> or rather, not trivial to automate
[13:01] <edmoore> you define two circles on the surface of the earth
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[13:01] <edmoore> each circle must have a radius of 30 degrees of earth great-circle
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14141_trj001.gif
[13:02] <edmoore> each circle must enclose one of the poles
[13:02] <edmoore> so basically, each circle is a skull-cap on the 'head' of the earth
[13:02] <edmoore> and each skullcap must cover a pole, though doesn't need to be centered on it
[13:03] <amell> jaunty skullcaps?
[13:03] <edmoore> your flight path has to cross every line of longitude, and you must pick points along it that you can connect up with great circle lines such that none of the lines intersect the skullcaps
[13:03] <edmoore> yes, yaunty skullcaps
[13:04] <amell> are you reading the same FAI rules?
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> thats doable with an interating script
[13:04] <amell> I was reading about half earth radiuses and the average of each leg?
[13:05] <SgtBurned> jededu, I'm here :)
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: do the skullcaps have to be non intersecting?
[13:06] <jededu> pm
[13:06] <edmoore> amell, yes just read them carefully
[13:06] <edmoore> Laurenceb_, yes
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> ok
[13:06] <edmoore> by definition they will be if both enclose a pole
[13:06] <edmoore> as their radii wouldn't be enough to touch
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:06] <Laurenceb_> one at north, one at south?
[13:07] <adamgreig> what's that online gerber view/share tool some people use?
[13:08] <edmoore> Laurenceb_, yes
[13:08] <adamgreig> in other news, who wants to tell me why my ublox design is bad
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> ok B-63 might just do ti then
[13:08] <edmoore> Laurenceb_, https://www.dropbox.com/s/aue9hzmr7v1wqek/faiballoon.png
[13:08] <edmoore> that's the pic from the rules
[13:08] <edmoore> so the skullcap is in the middle
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> i see
[13:09] <edmoore> the path can be approximated by points with great-circle arcs between them that don't intersect the cap
[13:09] <edmoore> though the path itself is allowed to have encroached into the cap
[13:09] <Laurenceb_> this calls for a octave script
[13:10] <Laurenceb_> ah B-63 updated
[13:10] <Laurenceb_> its going south of prediction
[13:10] <edmoore> sounds like a skullcap positioning optimisation problem
[13:10] <Laurenceb_> yes
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[13:11] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/14399_trj001.gif
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> 2 to 3 days without reception
[13:11] <Laurenceb_> but could be back over uk in just over 4 days
[13:12] <lz1dev> fg
[13:14] <adamgreig> wonder if it'l hit the USA
[13:14] <adamgreig> quite neatly avoided it
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if there are any HAMs in northern territories
[13:14] <adamgreig> probably yea
[13:14] <Laurenceb_> need to put out some messages :P
[13:15] <edmoore> if there do turn out to be some hams right up there, you are allowed to proclaim: "See!? Innuit!!"
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> lol
[13:16] <Darkside> was that punintentional edmoore ?
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> does VE7VMH have a yagi or something?
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> 2M yagi would be big :P
[13:23] <NigeyS> adamgreig http://www.gerber-viewer.com/
[13:24] <adamgreig> don't think it's that one. looks all fancy web2.0 and has share links and stuff
[13:24] <Steffanx> Isn't gerblook the fanciest too used nowadays?
[13:24] <Steffanx> *tool
[13:24] <adamgreig> that looks like what i was thinking of, thank Steffanx
[13:25] <adamgreig> sweet, very nice
[13:25] <adamgreig> who wants to play critique-the-pcb http://gerblook.org/pcb/zBsLya8XyKCw7rJCYvz2cn#front
[13:26] <craag> what's the part by the gps antenna?
[13:26] <craag> lna?
[13:27] <adamgreig> alm-2712 filter+lna+filter
[13:27] <NigeyS> hmm i keep getting bad gateway when i upload mine..lol
[13:27] <craag> tracks don't look very microstrip-like, but I guess that doesn't matter too much at that scale.
[13:28] <Laurenceb_> it is 1.5GHz...
[13:29] <craag> TX is interesting. I'm guessing a switchable PA
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[13:29] <adamgreig> craag: yea
[13:30] <craag> cool
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[13:36] <adamgreig> craag: not really space for anything more microstrip like
[13:36] <adamgreig> and yea it's preety short
[13:37] <adamgreig> like 4mm
[13:37] <adamgreig> 1/50 of a wavelength
[13:37] <mattbrejza> i would be tempted to switch to roadkill mounting to give you more space
[13:37] <craag> looks a capable little pcb, this is the one you showed the schematic of a while ago?
[13:37] <adamgreig> one of them :P
[13:38] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: not now :P
[13:38] <adamgreig> also can't afford more width
[13:38] <mattbrejza> ah
[13:39] <adamgreig> http://gerblook.org/pcb/jktF9AZbkQ8J52NWgMpBJB updated the GPS lines a bit
[13:39] <adamgreig> now chunkier
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[13:39] <adamgreig> a closer approximation to a grounded coplanar waveguide
[13:40] <craag> :)
[13:40] <adamgreig> craag: this is https://agg.io/u/m2r.pdf
[13:40] <adamgreig> relatively plain
[13:40] <craag> canhaz one of those to lose pls ?
[13:40] <adamgreig> it's warmup for https://agg.io/u/m2fc.pdf
[13:41] <mattbrejza> what connectors are going on this?
[13:41] <craag> moar sensors
[13:41] <craag> awesome
[13:41] <craag> gtg graduation
[13:41] <adamgreig> haha enjoy
[13:41] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: JST PA series
[13:41] <adamgreig> 2mm pitch and have a locking bit
[13:41] <mattbrejza> ah nice
[13:42] <adamgreig> after much selection
[13:42] <adamgreig> the SMT versions of the pcb headers for it are not yet stocked
[13:42] <adamgreig> so all pth
[13:42] <adamgreig> but that's ok
[13:44] <adamgreig> i put a slot in my ground plane :X
[13:45] <adamgreig> craag: the switchable PA is to make it legal/illegal to fly in the UK ;)
[13:45] <craag> is this the one you're taking out to the usa to fly?
[13:45] <adamgreig> yep
[13:45] <adamgreig> that's the intent anyway
[13:46] <adamgreig> gotta survive only to 15km
[13:46] <adamgreig> but 20G and mach 3 ;)
[13:46] <mattbrejza> i think in this case the slot is fine
[13:46] Action: mattbrejza hides from leo
[13:46] <adamgreig> I'm pretty sure I understand what i'm doing with ground planes now
[13:46] <adamgreig> but not confident in that enough to not expect to have messed it up anyway
[13:47] <mattbrejza> na youre good
[13:48] <mattbrejza> i would be tempted to increase the heatsinking area though
[13:48] <mattbrejza> whats the junction->ambient resistance for that package?
[13:48] <adamgreig> for which
[13:48] <adamgreig> the 5V reg?
[13:48] <mattbrejza> ya
[13:48] <adamgreig> with no copper at all, 126/W
[13:49] <adamgreig> with copper just underneath/inside, 100C/W
[13:49] <adamgreig> with 1", 50C/W or so
[13:50] <mattbrejza> not too bad then
[13:50] <mattbrejza> youre probably at 70-80C/W
[13:52] <edmoore> yo, split grounds seem to be a hot potato
[13:52] <edmoore> never really understood why
[13:53] <edmoore> if you've a return current of x and the ground plane has some resistence and inductance, then you've also got a potential gradient of y
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[13:54] <edmoore> so if say you have some sensitive analogue amplification stage that shares that bit of ground, your reference 'ground' might actually be different in one part of your reference compared to another
[13:54] <edmoore> which can be badness 10,000
[13:54] <adamgreig> yep
[13:54] <edmoore> if you put a split in that that can isolate the sensitive bit of circuitry from seeing the voltage gradient caused by the current return path somewhere else
[13:54] <adamgreig> so no high DC currents flowing through ground planes under sensitive parts
[13:54] <edmoore> exactly
[13:55] <adamgreig> high amplitude, anyway, DC or otherwise
[13:55] <adamgreig> it's just directing the flow of return current
[13:55] <edmoore> at higher frequencies there are obviously other factors governing the return path
[13:55] <adamgreig> right, hence also not routing your power or data lines over the split
[13:56] <edmoore> aye
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[13:58] <edmoore> and the other thing which you probably realise but which often gets people is that 'high speed' effects are there because of rising edges
[13:58] <edmoore> not because of switching frequencies
[13:59] <adamgreig> yep
[13:59] <edmoore> so a 1kHz square wave can do as much havoc as a 10MHz square wave if they both have similarly sharp rising edges
[13:59] <adamgreig> i'll be demonstrating the lab that demonstrates that principle next term in fact
[13:59] <edmoore> that was a more general statement as i know you know :)
[14:00] <adamgreig> :P
[14:02] <edmoore> but the point being, a pyro firing circuit might be a slow speed, mostly dc thing, but if you design it sufficiently well that it has a nice low inductance path then you might get quite a fast 1A pulse taking a circuitous route around your ground plane splits and broadcasting that fact very loudly in RF
[14:02] <edmoore> been there trying to make a fast-acting constant power electronic load for something
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[14:10] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15094_trj001.gif
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[14:16] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> how is aprs still working
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> ~200miles over the horizon
[14:18] <lz1dev> repeaters?
[14:18] <UpuWork> almost made it to Yellowknife thats amazing
[14:20] <edmoore> sporadic E
[14:20] <edmoore> the answer for when something to do with propagation shouldn't work but actually does
[14:21] <NigeyS> shame there's no camera, there would've been some amazing images
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[14:21] <Laurenceb_> looks like its closest to the most southerly tracks
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> so it would be back in 2 days
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> and then over usa
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[14:23] <astrobiologist> quick question 1: can someone recommend a good magmount with male sma connector for 2m/70cm?
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[14:26] Nick change: myself-gtfo -> myself
[14:27] <UpuWork> Diamond SR77
[14:27] <UpuWork> let me check that
[14:28] <UpuWork> diamond mr77s
[14:29] <edmoore> 'diamond mr77s' sounds like the name of a man who might lead you astray in vegas
[14:32] <number10> I could say thats crap, but would be technically incorrect
[14:35] <number10> I see daveake is not around to keep this rolling
[14:36] <Laurenceb_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/UtsingiPoint-GreatSlaveLake.JPG/1280px-UtsingiPoint-GreatSlaveLake.JPG
[14:36] <Laurenceb_> looks... warm
[14:39] <mattbrejza> and densely populated
[14:40] <UpuWork> go watch Ice Pilots :)
[14:41] <astrobiologist> diamond mr77s ordered, hope I get it in time! want to pimp my dad's car for a trip we're taking with my nipper
[14:42] <fsphil> when I got to any radio club event, the little watson magmount I have looks so silly compared to the antennas the rest of them have
[14:42] <fsphil> I wouldn't be brave enough, or have the need to, cut holes in my car to mount antennas
[14:43] <astrobiologist> fsphil, let me guess, everybody there is of the male gender?
[14:43] <fsphil> shockingly no
[14:44] <qyx_> are you girl?
[14:44] <astrobiologist> I pee standing up
[14:44] <edmoore> phil is all man
[14:44] <edmoore> i can confirm
[14:44] <fsphil> lol
[14:45] <astrobiologist> next question: please take a look at this http://t.co/4KtafTRdmt
[14:45] <edmoore> also, what _is_ she gonna look like with a chimney on her
[14:46] <fsphil> like a panda
[14:46] <fsphil> having a bad day
[14:46] <astrobiologist> did that link work? it doesn't seem to on my phone
[14:47] <astrobiologist> anyway, I was going to ask, I think somebody drew it for me on this 'ere IRC
[14:47] <astrobiologist> but is that circuit unidirectional?
[14:48] <astrobiologist> there is only a blocking capacitor in one direction for instance
[14:49] <astrobiologist> why doesn't the circuit have a voltage divider and a blocking capacitor in both directions?
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[15:23] <chrisstubbs> Hydrogen people: do you usually pick your bottles up by car?
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[15:27] <mattltm> Meh.
[15:27] <jededu> Van
[15:28] <mattltm> Forgot that I had an IRC client on my phone.
[15:28] <mattltm> Happy days.
[15:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.transportation2014.ca/admin/wp-content/uploads/SS-Deh-Cho-Bridge-Panorama-Salim-Sarwar-700x400.jpg
[15:28] <mattltm> Nice bridge
[15:32] <Laurenceb_> needs aprs
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[15:37] <fsphil> howdy sir.mattltm
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[16:06] <KA1QW> Thinking about a pico and using HF , like Hans Summers QRSS/QSPR board. Reason: I have VHF/UHF FM and HF receivers, but NO vhf/uhf SSB/CW. Comments
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[16:10] <KT5TK> KA1QW: Likely the shortwave antenna itself will be already too heavy for a Pico. The problem is that you can only have ~15 - 20 g payload on the biggest available Qualatex foil balloon
[16:11] <KT5TK> to get it to a stable float altitude
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[16:13] <KA1QW> That I understand - however have been surprised with the distance using only a ~20 ft wire on 30 AND 40. A compromise certainly but surprising results just hanging from a tree!
[16:13] <KT5TK> Agreed.
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> thin wire is light
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> and good enough for an antenni
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[16:16] <Laurenceb_> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=16&call=a%2FVE8WD-11&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[16:16] <KA1QW> Yes it is ! Just discovered the pico idea. New to me. Watching the B-63 balloon just brings a smile to my face !
[16:16] <Laurenceb_> hey come back
[16:17] Nick change: DL7AD_mobile -> AF5LI
[16:17] <KT5TK> The circuit doesn't look bad for power saving, but I doubt that the crystal and varicap is stable enough with the temperature changes
[16:17] <AF5LI> Good afternoon
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=11&call=a%2FYKDIGI&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[16:18] <AF5LI> KT5TK agree. Sp3osj had it on his layout
[16:18] <Laurenceb_> someone needs to get them online
[16:18] <KA1QW> That too. I use them and they really need help reducing thermal swings.
[16:18] <KT5TK> You'll probably want to use a very thin steel wire for the 30m antenna. But still it adds a lot to the payload weight
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> noooooo
[16:19] <Laurenceb_> use copper
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Or aluminium
[16:19] <arko> woooo
[16:19] <KT5TK> Why?
[16:19] <arko> B-63
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Or copper coated aluminium
[16:19] <arko> crossed my longitude!
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> KT5TK: steel is monumentally bad for antennas
[16:20] <KT5TK> But a thin copper wire will rupture
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> KT5TK: the magneticness means that the skin effect is very pronounced, and the resistance goes double for that
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Not under its own weight at only 30m
[16:20] <KT5TK> At 10 MHz?
[16:21] <KT5TK> That's almost DC
[16:21] <KA1QW> I have some very light silvered 28 gauge I use. I've been copied QRSS in PA using 20 ft of this on 40M.
[16:23] <KA1QW> I really just sputtering. My Icom 275H died last month. Was wonderful on cw/ssb. ANd my KX3 doesnt do 440, yet ! Appreciate the comments.
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[16:25] <AF5LI> KA1QW did they even finish the 2m additional pcb for the kx3?
[16:27] <KA1QW> Nope, still waiting. Due late August now. But, I have never enjoyed a receiver as much. KT5TK thinks 10 mhz is DC ? I hang out on 1.826 MHZ with 3 watts ! <grin >
[16:27] <arko> "That's almost DC"
[16:27] <arko> haha
[16:28] <AF5LI> :D
[16:29] <myself> Heh. If it doesn't require coax, it's DC as far as I'm concerned.
[16:29] <KA1QW> Off to buy another mylar birthday balloon. Too much fun .
[16:30] <myself> Aluminum-clad steel fence wire (for electric fences) is cheap and sold on mile-plus spools.
[16:32] <KA1QW> Fun to play with, but the pico certainly make fun limitations.
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[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> KA1W, thats one reason for a "distributed listener" system, the launcher doesn't have to listen!
[16:35] <KA1QW> like APRS ?
[16:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> yup or the 70cms band we use over here in Europe.
[16:36] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-Tab
[16:37] <KA1QW> SSB/CW receive is my problem on 70cms.
[16:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> An SDR dongle is about what 5-10$ ?
[16:39] <KA1QW> Awww, I was waiting for someone to bring that up ! Got a couple, and have had zero success with them. But, I probably haven't given them enough time and effort, yet.
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[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> ? just load drivers for the dongle and an SDR radio application is all that's needed
[16:42] <KA1QW> I shouldn't say ssb/cw receive is my problem. It is my challenge! My dongle experience was before pico interest, and before the IC-275 died. I'll give it another go. Thanks for bringing it up.
[16:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Good luck!
[16:45] <KA1QW> CHange of subject: A birthday mylar balloon from the local store is obviously going to go up and burst. What's a vague idea about how high it might go? By itself, no load.
[16:46] <Upu> may not burst if you keep ascent rate low
[16:46] <Upu> and payload light
[16:46] <AF5LI> Which size?
[16:47] <Upu> 36" Qualatex sphere with 20g will float at ~ 6-7km with 1-2g lift
[16:47] <AF5LI> Depends on size and paload weight
[16:47] <KA1QW> ABout 14 inches across. I just tied a QSL card on a string, and let it go.. Hey, it made me smile and confused the neighbors.
[16:48] <Upu> I look forward to recieving it
[16:48] <AF5LI> But theres one thing i can tell. I never brought something to float except qualatex
[16:48] <KA1QW> Qualatex is a brand name ?
[16:48] <AF5LI> Yeah
[16:48] <Upu> http://www.qualatex.com/
[16:49] <AF5LI> I never succeeded with any other. They all got micro holes
[16:50] <KA1QW> Aren't those latex ?
[16:50] <AF5LI> And deacended very slow ib the evening
[16:50] <AF5LI> No
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[16:50] <AF5LI> Mylar
[16:50] <AF5LI> Its foil
[16:50] <Upu> 36" Silver Qualatex
[16:50] <Upu> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons_files/Silver36inFoilBalloon.jpg
[16:50] <Upu> go spherical
[16:51] <KA1QW> I was reading about making them myself.
[16:52] <AF5LI> That Difficult. But not impossible
[16:55] <KA1QW> THanks for the link. I am old and patient. 4o years in manufacturing makes me want to do it myself, first ! Also stubborn and pigheaded, according to my wife.
[16:55] <edmoore> DIY i applaud massively
[16:56] <edmoore> can make lots of analogies about genetic variation being good for the gene pool and survival of the species
[16:56] <edmoore> much better than 'buy this arduino, copy this code, attach it to this balloon, remember to inhale and exhale throughout to prevent collapse'
[17:00] <KA1QW> ANother forum, another day !! But I agree. I've done the Arduino, Netduino and they are fun. The Hans SUmmer boards are really enjoyable. But there are some real clever guys playing with pico balloons.
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[17:02] <edmoore> well, welcome
[17:02] <edmoore> and yes there are some smart cookies doing v interesting things with picos
[17:03] <KA1QW> Thanks. GOtta run. SUmmer in Maine is NOT the time to sit inside ! Cheers.
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[17:16] <amell> Any idea when B-63 might reappear? 2 days?
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> there is aprs in yellowknife
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> but not active atm :-/
[17:19] <amell> worth a poke to let the ham know?
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:21] <amell> whats his email? you email him?
[17:21] <amell> can email if you like
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> check aprs.fi logs
[17:21] <amell> callsign?
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=11&call=a%2FYKDIGI&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=16&call=a%2FVE8WD-11&timerange=86400&tail=86400
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[17:24] <KA1QW> Is there a site to tell what B-63 is using for hardware/balloon?
[17:25] <amell> i cant seem to find an email address for VE8WD. How annoying
[17:26] <amell> got it
[17:26] <amell> emailing him
[17:26] <aadamson> yellowknife has been poked according to the guys in BC, one set of equipment died in april the other ham doesn't have time to get his setup, but the guy in BC is still trying (he knows the guys)
[17:26] <amell> oh. okay
[17:27] <maxmed> I know someone told me that there is more to go wrong with a switching regulator than an ordinary voltage regulator and it is less simple but this one looks fairly straight forward without very much that can go wrong correct? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRACOPOWER-TSR-1-2433-CONVERTER-DC-DC-24V-3-3V-1A/390614553268?_trksid=p2050601.c100103.m2451&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211150826%26meid%3D852
[17:27] <amell> aadamson: I was thinking of emailing all the people in NWT and Nunavut on this list: https://www.rac.ca/en/rac/management/directors/
[17:28] <jededu> maxmed I use them all the time
[17:29] <LeoBodnar> has VE7VMH actually chased B-63?
[17:30] <LeoBodnar> much range
[17:30] <maxmed> jededu : cool I go with on eof those then.
[17:30] <amell> Leobodnar: I was surprised at range. Im sending the yellowknife guy an email at the moment.
[17:30] <LeoBodnar> 620km
[17:30] <jededu> TSR-1-2433 runs raspi ublox and ntx2
[17:30] <amell> will tell him we can take mp3s if he cant get aprs working
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> tell him to record the audio and froward somewhere we can decode it
[17:31] <LeoBodnar> snap
[17:31] <jededu> over 20 hours with 4AA at 200ma
[17:32] <jededu> and sensors :)
[17:32] <amell> Leobodnar: APRS position - is it twice every 5 mins like 434?
[17:34] <LeoBodnar> about 1 per minute
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> and once every 30 seconds during the day
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> yes, too often, that's timing cockup
[17:35] <lz1dev> gee
[17:35] <lz1dev> that's tough on the APRS network man
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> because 434 telemetry and pips were switched off
[17:35] <lz1dev> think of the poor hams
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> it's a bug
[17:35] <LeoBodnar> if they don't kill me i'll have a chance to fix it
[17:36] <lz1dev> don't open international mail
[17:37] <BullDoger> LeoBodnar, Is your pico going to survive up north?
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[17:38] <amell> Leobodnar: email sent to six hams who appear senior in the northern canada area.
[17:39] <amell> hopefully some responses.
[17:39] <LeoBodnar> ta amell !
[17:39] <LeoBodnar> BullDoger: it has been that high already i think
[17:39] <amell> only one delivery failure, so thats something.
[17:40] <BullDoger> LeoBodnar, No aprs coverage atm then?
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[17:41] <amell> BullDoger: no. working on it. hope we can at least get some recordings.
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[17:45] <DL1SGP> hi all
[17:46] <mattltm> Hi
[17:48] <maxmed> just tested my modified code (https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/5f66d858d4050ddde18a69270f5df337c71a4a35) and very weird things seem to be happening. The count appears to work fine but all the other data is weird both when received on my laptop and on the SD card suggesting the data is corrupted before being transmitted (ie. when making the datastring). I checked the GPS on the ublox software and it definitly ha
[17:49] <maxmed> a a typical datastring looked like: "$$MAX,19,0,,ected,881, 46.1585811000000.00 301.01001 1.4610,No fix detected,1000000.00 301.0100*A635"
[17:50] <amell> check your code
[17:50] <amell> looks like you have your buffer positions mixed up, or a buffer overflow.
[17:51] <maxmed> also some bits of the software serial print (myserial) seemed to randomly pop up in the datastring: eg. $$MAX,1,0,pening datalog.txt,tected,881, 46.1583601000000.00 0.00000 1.5382,@No fix detected,1*2EF5
[17:52] <amell> buffer overflow
[17:54] <maxmed> how do I fix that?
[17:55] <amell> by looking at your code again and understanding what its doing
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[18:02] <maxmed> is the buffer overflow in the software serial or the datastring?
[18:03] <LeoBodnar> looks like last positions of B-63 were ninjapeated M0XER-3>APRS63,WIDE2*,qAR,VE7VMH:...
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[18:04] <LeoBodnar> no digipeater callsign but a WIDE2-1 hop taken out
[18:04] <amell> some intermediary perhaps?
[18:05] <jededu> Where can I find the data that sets the ublox max-7 into flightmode I cant find it on any of the docs
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> never seen it before
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[18:05] <amell> jededu: if you find out how to set flightmode without using UBX commands, let me know...
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> https://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_(GPS.G7-SW-12001).pdf
[18:05] <aadamson> jededu, - http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> or steal it from UCentre
[18:06] <amell> cant find a mac version of ucentre
[18:06] <jededu> aadamson thx
[18:06] <amell> I refuse to run anything created by the devil in this house
[18:07] <Upu> Steve Jobs ?
[18:08] <fsphil> if you type that in three times your right mouse button breaks
[18:08] <Upu> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xRytZiuAMoI/T0wA_BO-BNI/AAAAAAAAD9g/2hgGZ_mWXGg/s1600/steve-jobs-vs-bill-gates-macfag-macfags-apple-ipod-imac-macbook-iphone-steve-jobs-macuser-ipad-macintosh.png
[18:08] <Upu> nice URL
[18:09] <amell> nice wrong URL, created by a Microshit fanb0i
[18:09] <Upu> yeah
[18:09] <Upu> but I like the comparison
[18:10] <arko> jobs was a jerk
[18:10] <Upu> he ate babies too I hear
[18:10] <arko> WOZ 4 LYF
[18:10] <arko> upu lol
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[18:11] <fsphil> I'll think of that image next time I'm cleaning a virus of a windows PC :)
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[18:17] <arko> i dont think ive had a virus on my window machine in 2-3 years at least
[18:18] <arko> windows*
[18:18] <fsphil> looks like isee-3 made some very tiny thrusts
[18:18] <fsphil> good sign
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[18:20] <amell> I reckon its constipation
[18:22] <fsphil> space constipation. that's much worse
[18:25] <daveake> just needs a good space fart
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[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:36] <SgtBurned> Evening Lunar
[18:37] <maxmed> would it help the buffer overflow in this code: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/5f66d858d4050ddde18a69270f5df337c71a4a35 if I got rid of all the software serial functions as i don't really use them?
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[18:42] <daveake> what buffer overflow?
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[18:43] <daveake> ah that one#
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[18:44] <fsphil> lol
[18:45] <maxmed> I ran the code and it had issues: the datastring came out as: $MAX,2,0,.158401 46.1584011000000.00 0.00000 0.1955,etected,881, 46.1584011000000.00 0.0000 and random bits from the software serial print came into the datastring as well eg: $$MAX,0,0,ing: possible stale data!,etected,881, 46.1585501000000.00 0.00000 0.2572,`No fix de
[18:46] <daveake> As a general rule, start with something simple, get that working, then build up testing/fixing/testing as you go
[18:46] <fsphil> you may be out of memory
[18:46] <daveake> What you have there is some slapped together code 95% of which someone else wrote
[18:46] <fsphil> you've got SD card stuff in there which can be quite large
[18:46] <daveake> I agre with fsphil
[18:46] <daveake> Get rid of both
[18:47] <daveake> software serial is for people who like problems
[18:47] <maxmed> when you say both you mean the sd card and ???
[18:47] <daveake> and software serial
[18:48] <daveake> probably removing either will be a big help
[18:48] <daveake> You can get wierd things happening if you run out of memory
[18:48] <S_Mark> I had big problems with the SD card stuff in the beginning. I only added it back in when I knew what was going on. The SD card has a BIG overhead on things if you havent slimmed down everything else. I defo was running out of memory.
[18:50] <maxmed> ahh ok, I'll try removing both and see if that works. I know most/all the code is just copied from various example material in guides but I dont really have the knowledge to write my own code from scratch as I dont fully understamd much of whats happening. I'm no programmer!
[18:50] <S_Mark> also wouldnt it be better to use Ints for numbers instead of strings (%s)
[18:50] <S_Mark> Well start with JUST the radio getting that working
[18:50] <S_Mark> then get your GPS outputting to the serial
[18:51] <S_Mark> then work on combining it
[18:51] <daveake> Yeah I mentioned this yesterday. Only use floats when you have to. Ints (e.g. speed/bearing/sats) can stay as integers and be snprintf'd using %d
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[18:53] <S_Mark> Also I used this function in the beginning to determine whether it was a ram issue:
[18:53] <S_Mark> int freeRam () {
[18:53] <S_Mark> extern int __heap_start, *__brkval;
[18:53] <S_Mark> int v;
[18:53] <S_Mark> int fr = (int) &v - (__brkval == 0 ? (int) &__heap_start : (int) __brkval);
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> all data UBLOX outputs are integers
[18:53] <S_Mark> Serial.print("Free ram: ");
[18:53] <S_Mark> Serial.println(fr);
[18:53] <S_Mark> }
[18:53] <S_Mark> oops bad pasteing
[18:53] <S_Mark> Yes and from tinygps are Integers too
[18:56] Nick change: SA6BSS|2 -> SA6BSS-Mike
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> http://www.dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+Raptor+Gets+Zapped+by+International+Date+Line/article6225.htm
[19:00] <LeoBodnar> "When the group of Raptors crossed over the IDL, multiple computer systems crashed on the planes. Everything from fuel subsystems, to navigation and partial communications were completely taken offline. Numerous attempts were made to "reboot" the systems to no avail."
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> "Had they gotten separated from their tankers or had the weather been bad, they had no attitude reference. They had no communications or navigation"
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> it's like snus on a bad day
[19:02] <maxmed> is the course speed and direction often used or should i remove it?
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> On 21 September 1997, while on maneuvers off the coast of Cape Charles, Virginia, a crew member entered a zero into a database field causing an attempted division by zero in the ship's Remote Data Base Manager, resulting in a buffer overflow which brought down all the machines on the network, causing the ship's propulsion system to fail.
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> "Because of politics, some things are being forced on us that without political pressure we might not do, like Windows NT. If it were up to me I probably would not have used Windows NT in this particular application ... Refining that is an ongoing process ... Unix is a better system for control of equipment and machinery, whereas NT is a better system for the transfer of information and data. NT has never been fully refined"
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> NT is better for transfer of information and data?
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> where is NT and where is Unix now?
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[19:22] <arko> hahahaa
[19:22] <arko> the f22
[19:22] <arko> thats amazing
[19:25] <maxmed> Does this code look better?$$MAX,0,0,ing: possible stale data!,etected,881, 46.1585501000000.00 0.00000 0.2572,`No fix de
[19:26] <maxmed> oops sorry not the link, here it is: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/b5f78109f280da6c31c61ee14d3aebd2dcc9e345
[19:30] <daveake> You can remove calt. falt would be better named alt. Also it should be an unsigned int if there's a chance of exceeding 32768 metres
[19:31] <daveake> flat/flon aren't used so can go
[19:31] <S_Mark> http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/UnsignedInt
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> or unsigned long int if you are NASA collaborator
[19:31] <daveake> ditto fix_age
[19:31] <daveake> lol LeoBodnar
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[19:33] <Laurenceb> i should do some proper work...
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[19:33] <Laurenceb> rather than contemplating FAI circumnavigation test automation
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> haha
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> one day...
[19:33] <Laurenceb> this is slightly addictive
[19:33] <aadamson> yeah like ... thesis!!!
[19:34] <aadamson> lol
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> Dr.Laurence stop fooling around
[19:36] <maxmed> so change fix_age to an int? and is the identifer for unsigned int %u ?
[19:37] <S_Mark> no its still %i
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> I know you like analytical solutions Laurenceb but just montecarlo it. PC power is wasted anyway.
[19:41] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:41] <Laurenceb> something like find minimum latitude points after smoothing
[19:41] <Laurenceb> then draw lines between permutations of them and try to fit the "top cap"
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> well you might want to change the reference system to bring the track to some symmetry
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> i move polar point
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> i.e.
[19:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> can the tracker have it embedded?
[19:43] <Laurenceb> haha
[19:43] <LeoBodnar> so it flips RTW bit to =True
[19:43] <Laurenceb> do _that_ in pic asm
[19:44] <LeoBodnar> lol easy
[19:45] <maxmed> changes made: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/5c042f0139f2bc003b68f9d49cdd2d60a0a27e1d , I added a message so i shoudl receive something on my laptop to say gps doesnt have a fix and how many satalittes it has, could you let me know if I have added this in correctly?
[19:46] <Laurenceb> any replies from yellowknife?
[19:47] <S_Mark> maxmed: you still have %u
[19:47] <S_Mark> what arduino are you using?
[19:48] <maxmed> arduino pro mini 3.3v 8Hz
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[19:53] <maxmed> This website says an unsigned int is &u: http://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/~liberti/public/computing/prog/c/C/FUNCTIONS/format.html , is there a special reason why it is %i / %d in this particular case?
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> B-63 out of contact :(
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[20:06] <AndChat|8064> Anyone care to recommend a decent dual band colinear?
[20:06] Nick change: AndChat|8064 -> GadgetDroid
[20:07] <fsphil> diamond x-50n
[20:07] <fsphil> or the watson equiv.
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[20:14] <maxmed> it seems i added the no gps lock message wrong as it doesnt send, it just sends the checksum. have I added it in the wrong place? should I instead put it under an else statement for the if(Serial.available()) ?
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[20:17] <SgtBurned> github page maxmed ?
[20:17] <maxmed> https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/5c042f0139f2bc003b68f9d49cdd2d60a0a27e1d
[20:18] <daveake> You're not setting fix_age
[20:20] <daveake> erm .. how come you're using fix_age on line 49 but not declaring it till line 60 ?
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[20:22] <SgtBurned> Did you drop it and try to fix it together with duct tape maxmed ? :)
[20:23] <daveake> OK, looking at https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/blob/master/tracking_code_9.ino it's a lot clearer
[20:24] <daveake> You have a global (ugh) fix_age, plus a local one randomly declared part way down the code
[20:24] <daveake> These things are bad
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[20:24] <SgtBurned> GOTO [21:22]
[20:24] <daveake> So you have 2 variables with the same name and depending on where you are in the code it'll use one or the other
[20:25] <daveake> this is bad
[20:26] <maxmed> daveake: I guess the code I copied was doggy! that does sound really bad! I hadnt noticed. I will have a read through and get rid of one. SgtBurned: are you refereing to my badly patched together code?
[20:26] <daveake> You still have software serial and you still have the SD code
[20:26] <SgtBurned> maxmed: Go through it like a computer would. Start from the top, if it calls a function go to that function. Make sure it all makes sense
[20:26] <daveake> this is bad
[20:26] <daveake> I'll retract my previous recommendation to understand this code then bin it and start again
[20:26] <daveake> Instead, learn C then start from scratch
[20:27] <daveake> Start with flashing an led
[20:27] <daveake> then send ntx2 data
[20:27] <daveake> then do gps
[20:27] <daveake> then tie it together
[20:27] <Laurenceb> http://www.nwaprs.info/
[20:27] <daveake> And don't rush
[20:27] <daveake> my eyes
[20:27] <SgtBurned> ( Was on the assumption he'd know C )
[20:28] <SgtBurned> Laurenceb: Did they get the Memo about Web 2.0?
[20:28] <SgtBurned> dem gif's though
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[20:31] <maxmed> I do have a basic understanding of C, I've worked through all the basic "getting started" guides in the past but that was about a year ago. The problem is this code seems to use some fairly advanced functions which its hard to find easy to undertsand information on. I'm trying to launch this balloon as a school project, I didn't expect the coding to be such a large part of it, I thought it would be a matter of just using some o
[20:31] <Laurenceb> http://wijs.be/userfiles/images/archive/web1vsweb2.png
[20:31] <Laurenceb> omg collective intelligence
[20:32] <maxmed> is the sd code the: #include <util/crc16.h> ?
[20:32] <daveake> Problem is maxmed, without a good understanding of C, patching together existing bits of code will just result in a mess that doesn't work and which you won't be able to fix
[20:33] <daveake> No. SD hasn't got anything to do with CRC
[20:35] <maxmed> Thats what I've come to realize, at the start of the project I didnt realize I'd have to patch code together as i assumed there would be a complete peice of code to use. I am starting to understand what most of the code is doing, I just doubt I am able to reproduce it from scratch.
[20:36] <maxmed> where is the SD code?
[20:36] <daveake> All the stuff with "SD" in it
[20:37] <daveake> if (!SD.begin(chipSelect)) {
[20:37] <daveake> for example
[20:37] <daveake> #include <SD.h>
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> "Tune APRS across North America on 144.39s 12kbd"
[20:39] <maxmed> I think thats all in an old version, are you sure your looking at the most up to date verisons? all the most recent three have no SD stuff
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> 12kbd yo
[20:40] <mfa298> daveake: you may need to change branches on maxmed's github as the current stuff wasn't in master (at least not yesterday)
[20:40] <daveake> oh great
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[20:41] <daveake> maxmed you might want to learn git too
[20:42] <gonzo_nb> 12kbd or 1k2bd
[20:43] <maxmed> Sorry about the confusing GitHub stuff, whilst trying to figure out how it works I seemed to accidently start a new branch and all the code ended up in there.
[20:44] <daveake> It's, erm, confusing
[20:46] <arko> lol
[20:47] <arko> at least you are trying, some people dont even git it
[20:47] <maxmed> I'm trying to sort it out now, putting everything into one repository
[20:47] <DL1SGP> hi arko :) has your move happened yet?
[20:48] <arko> to where?
[20:48] <DL1SGP> new hackspace?
[20:48] <arko> oh yeah
[20:48] <arko> a while ago
[20:48] Action: DL1SGP should be here more frequently
[20:48] <arko> april
[20:48] <arko> haha
[20:48] <arko> yeah
[20:49] <daveake> Fox News got it ... http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/09/fox-news-explaining-github-funniest-thing-youll-see-today/ :/
[20:49] <DL1SGP> here's some info for ye folks http://radio.felix-techie.org/?p=54 I gonna send around some info through the mailing list later/tomorrow
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[20:53] <DL1SGP> willkommen zurück sven
[20:54] <Laurenceb> anyone here used matlab from command line recently?
[20:54] <Laurenceb> im confused, stderr seems to have vanished
[20:55] <cm13g09> Laurenceb: you can't vanish a stderr pipe.... what have you done!?
[20:56] <mfa298> well you could do a 2>/dev/null (or similar depending on the shell to redirect it)
[20:59] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:59] <Laurenceb> i can type in random junk and theres no error
[21:00] <Laurenceb> lets check my config scripts
[21:00] <Laurenceb> oh crap
[21:00] <Laurenceb> yeah i screwed up the config to force GUI only when X forwarding was in use
[21:01] <Laurenceb> stderr is being handled like an X forwarding error
[21:02] <DL1SGP> Laurenceb: a system without errors... you will get rich through that :D
[21:02] <Laurenceb> hah
[21:04] <mfa298> only from the idiots who'll believe there can be an error free system
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[21:05] <DL1SGP> mfa298: there are enough of that kind I fear :)
[21:06] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Mobilisten-Sven
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[21:13] <maxmed> I think I've now messed up my GitHub page even more! I managed to get rid of the extra branch and put everything on the master branch but now I managed to put the very first version as the most recent version and then replaced that with a version with nothing on it at all. I cant figure out how to delete a commit?
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[21:15] <maxmed> oh actually it seems to have kind of worked. here is most recent version: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/blob/master/tracking_code_11/tracking_code_11.ino
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[21:36] <Ian_> Maxmed, you will look back on this last couple of days as a great learning experience. with brain cells working like a haydron colider at the moment. Don't weaken, you are getting there, albeit by a somewhat circuitous route. :)
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[21:40] <Ian_> Maxmed enters the system . . . http://img1.mxstatic.com/wallpapers/9c598b79cdbe0fa95b043399d224b30f_large.jpeg
[21:44] <Reb-SM0ULC> Ian_: what is that?
[21:45] <Ian_> http://img0.mxstatic.com/wallpapers/98572f04635b15ee3812aa6dfd31e22c_large.jpeg
[21:45] <BullDoger> maxmed, try indentation, eclipse can fix it so you know what it should like
[21:46] <BullDoger> And really, try split up code into files
[21:47] <Ian_> Reb-SM0LLC it's a picture of part of the Large Haydron Collider, used for firing brain cells around CERN. Here is an index page http://www.maxisciences.com/large-hadron-collider/wallpaper
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[21:48] <Reb-SM0ULC> Ian_: aah. have a few friends working there. kind of cool stuff :)
[21:49] <Ian_> Scary stuff if you ask me. Well beyond my comprehension I'm sure. I get the idea, but it's a bit more difficult than getting a VFO to work :)
[21:50] <snelly> Hey Upu
[21:50] <snelly> Got my GPS boards today
[21:50] <Upu> hello
[21:50] <Upu> cool
[21:50] <snelly> that was really fast!
[21:50] <snelly> I think they moved as fast as M0XER :)
[21:50] <Upu> Remind me where I posted them too ?
[21:50] <snelly> Tacoma, Washington, USA
[21:50] <Upu> 5 days ?
[21:51] <snelly> I'm super excited
[21:51] <snelly> I think I ordered them last weekend
[21:51] <snelly> I guess they flew over on the BA flight :)
[21:52] <Upu> glad they got there
[21:53] <Ian_> Upu, are there raffle prizes at Conference. Had a good crop . .
[21:53] <Upu> hadn't planned on it :)
[21:53] <Ian_> Conference?
[21:54] <Upu> HAB Supplies are basically footing the food bill atm
[21:54] Action: cm13g09 was considering conference - but now has too much to do and not enough weekends to fit it all in!
[21:55] <Upu> shame
[21:55] <cm13g09> yep, sorry Upu
[21:55] <Ian_> Come on folks, sign up - when does/did the gate close? We obviously need a few more bums on seats - in the nicest possible way.
[21:55] <Upu> probably 2nd of August
[21:56] <cm13g09> I have a couple of major projects that have had elements of them pushed back
[21:56] <snelly> so guys...if you have a GPS module (or TNC, or whatever) on a shield for a microcontroller, should you use decoupling capacitors for the serial lines?
[21:56] <Upu> we may get a boost on Friday as daveake is doing a guest post on www.raspberrypi.org and mentioning it
[21:56] <cm13g09> and it looks like 16th/17th is going to the weekend that everything happens
[21:57] <qyx_> snelly: decoupling capacitors for the serial lines?
[21:58] <snelly> yeah
[21:58] <snelly> I wasn't sure if that's even needed
[21:58] <Ian_> I'll bring some honey for a give aways, but obviously going to be limited to what I can carry, accommodation sorted (ditto) just transport options to consider 15th and 17th.
[21:59] <Upu> oo I like honey
[21:59] <qyx_> snelly: i am not sure what do you mean
[21:59] <Ian_> I'm sure you'll like mine. it'll turn your hair ginger!
[22:00] <Upu> hehe
[22:00] <Ian_> Might not work for everyone of course!
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> i'll give it a go
[22:02] <Ian_> Prize for your recent achievement - congrats by the way.
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> heh thanks!
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, thanks for the info about the GPS "going deaf" on the mailing list
[22:03] <Upu> welcome
[22:03] <maxmed> thanks for the words of encouragement Ian_ , just ran this code: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/4b2296f299cb8e9d51fc33bb6963ed2f37967acc and got "MAX: ERROR 2,255" does this mean I don't have a GPS lock? how can the number of satellites be 255??
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> is there anything to prevent that on soldering?
[22:04] <Upu> esd iron
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[22:12] <astrobiologist> I'm transmitting aprs again if anybody nearish London would like to try listening out for me (especially if you have a good antenna)
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[22:13] <astrobiologist> I could hear and decode other people's aprs packets the City this morning, including m5lmy who is well outside London. so maybe the rx is good. but I still wonder if I am tx'ng properly
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[22:14] <astrobiologist> will probably transmit all down the southwest coast on my hols...!
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[22:21] <LeoBodnar> have you been transmitting today astrobiologist ?
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[22:23] <amell> what callsign did you use to transmit astrobiologist? should appear on aprs.fi?
[22:24] <astrobiologist> I haven't been transmitting all day. stopped about 10am, restarted about 9.30pm.
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[22:24] <astrobiologist> my callsign is m6odp BUT pocketpacket updates my position over the internet
[22:25] <astrobiologist> so I'm on aprs.fi most of the time even if I'm not actually transmitting
[22:26] <Laurenceb> this is actually quite accurate
[22:26] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/117952_trj001.gif
[22:26] <Upu> not much deviation
[22:26] <Upu> always a good sign
[22:27] <Upu> come home to Uncle Leo little B
[22:27] <astrobiologist> the weird thing is that pocketpacket seems to be hearing its own packets
[22:27] <Upu> impressive speed Oliver
[22:27] <Upu> 665 km/h
[22:28] <astrobiologist> I'm wondering whether there is crosstalk between the mic and speaker sockets in my TH-F7E
[22:29] <astrobiologist> upu: yes that's a bit odd! I can't have travelled more than about 4 miles since 2pm!
[22:30] <fsphil> heh, B going to fly past too far north for me
[22:30] <amell> canada appears to be dead.
[22:31] <amell> no response to my email to 8 radio hams in canada about B-63
[22:31] <amell> maybe they only pick up email once a week because its so remote
[22:31] <DL7AD> amell: you have to ask some more than only 8 ;)
[22:31] <amell> dl7ad: this was hams in yellowknife and north of there.
[22:31] <amell> nunavut etc.
[22:32] <fsphil> I'll head out and setup an igate if someone wants to fund the B-expedition :)
[22:32] <DL7AD> the reply rate in russia is 5%. and probably 1 or2% are useful
[22:32] <amell> maybe they are all outside and enjoying the sun, seeing as they are snowed in the rest of the time.
[22:33] <amell> google earth indicates the area B-63 is flying through is stark and uninhabited. theres f.all going on there.
[22:33] <fsphil> bears
[22:34] <amell> fsphil: Ill leave bears to you...
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[22:34] <fsphil> they're ok, you just need to press paws
[22:35] <fsphil> I blame the heat
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[22:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> Laurenceb: would have been nice if they just could colour landmass in a slightly different colour...
[22:43] <Reb-SM0ULC> amell: doesn't it take days for the signal to reach the receivers? ;)
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[22:55] <maxmed> just ran this code: https://github.com/Max-Med/tracking_code_9/commit/4b2296f299cb8e9d51fc33bb6963ed2f37967acc. I found if GPS is not connected I get nothing as expected, when GPS is then connected I get and got "MAX: ERROR 2,255"- does this mean it just doesnt have a gps lock? also, if the gps is then disconnected i get the same error, surely it should stop as it is no longer receiving serial?
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[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[23:13] <Oddstr13> anyone know of a DVB-T decoder for the RTL-SDR (without installing the 'official' drivers and software that is)
[23:14] <astrobiologist> still not a sausage on the aprs... how much does a "proper" aprs-enabled handheld cost?
[23:14] <Laurenceb> im not sure you need much of a decoder
[23:14] <Laurenceb> its all done in hardware
[23:14] <Laurenceb> aiui it can pretty much chuck out MPEG-2 straight from the dongle
[23:15] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/112995_trj001.gif
[23:15] <Oddstr13> well, i'd like to confirm wether the signal i'm looking at right now is DVB-T or not
[23:15] <Laurenceb> looks likely to go N->S over uk
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[23:17] <Laurenceb> in 4 days
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[23:19] <Laurenceb> guys in Yellowknife should be coming back from work now
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[23:20] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/113057_trj001.gif
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[23:22] <astrobiologist> nite all
[23:22] <astrobiologist> all/quit
[23:22] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/113084_trj001.gif
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[23:22] <Laurenceb> only another 6 hours of rx in Yellowknife
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[23:25] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Willy
[23:25] Nick change: Willy -> WillyD
[23:26] <amell> Laurenceb: it was heard in yellowknife?
[23:26] <Laurenceb> no
[23:26] <Laurenceb> i mean its in range for ~6 hours
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> you can build an FM receiver in that time
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[23:29] <amell> Yeah, I dont know whats going on with them canadians.
[23:29] <amell> its not like they have anything else to do stuck in that wasteland.
[23:30] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:30] <Laurenceb> looks like theres nothing else on that path until VA3ADI-9
[23:32] <amell> VA3ADI-9 has a huge antenna :)
[23:32] <Laurenceb> or maybe VE3YQK-1
[23:32] <amell> have a look at streetview& its huge!
[23:34] <Laurenceb> nothing until at least tomorrow if Yellowknife dont get busy
[23:34] <Laurenceb> looking...
[23:36] <Laurenceb> ah the mast?
[23:36] <Laurenceb> i see it
[23:36] Action: Laurenceb zzz
[23:39] Action: amell reads the GPSL mailing list chatter.
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[23:53] <Oddstr13> http://puu.sh/aoohG/7ec083ae39.png http://puu.sh/aooo0/13e753088e.wav Any idea of what this might be?
[23:54] <Oddstr13> whoa, something to do with my wireless network it seems
[00:00] --- Thu Jul 24 2014