highaltitude.log.20140703

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[06:40] <amell> ooh i see b-62 reported in last night
[06:42] <amell> i dont understand this. apparently m0xer-2 reported in 20 min ago.
[06:42] <amell> 2014-07-03 07:20:41 BST: M0XER-2>APRS62,WIDE2-1,qAS,2E0TOY:!/6''faAs%O G9=m/A=038457|LDLP&X>m!)|
[06:43] <mfa298> that looks like it's one Leo uploaded presumably decoded from an audio file someone sent him
[06:44] <amell> yes but with a position valid 20 mins ago?
[06:44] <amell> i doubt a position from a audio file could have been provided that quickly
[06:44] <arko> thats likely
[06:45] <amell> unlikely? :)
[06:45] <mfa298> I think aprs.fi is stupid in that it uses the upload time not the time in the packet
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[06:46] <arko> it's possible that it could have been done in that time, not sure how you import with aprs.fi
[06:49] <LeoBodnar> yes, aprs.fi always uses upload time
[06:49] <LeoBodnar> even if actual time is provided
[06:49] <amell> ok. so the snus times are the times from the tracker?
[06:49] <LeoBodnar> so i embed actual position time in aprs packet
[06:50] <LeoBodnar> yes
[06:50] <amell> according to snus b62 was heard from at 00.20 UTC this morning
[06:50] <amell> so you presumably got an email this morning and imported it an hour ago? ish
[06:50] <LeoBodnar> correct
[06:50] <amell> thanks for the clarification :)
[06:51] <LeoBodnar> i know it confuses many
[06:51] <LeoBodnar> including myself
[06:53] <amell> any idea how far away from the b62 position your ham is?
[06:56] <LeoBodnar> he is in Temirtau http://aprs.fi/#!addr=Temirtau
[06:58] <LeoBodnar> 200km NW from the last position
[06:58] <amell> not bad at all. might be able to get some more packets. If he knows other hams in the area they could keep a look out for you
[06:59] <amell> is his name Borat by any chance?
[07:03] <arko> im still waiting for it to get to me
[07:03] <arko> i believe in you b62
[07:03] <amell> this one might...
[07:03] <arko> 12km float is great
[07:15] <fsphil> and its so steady too
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[07:35] <SM5OCI> Hmmm. There were a few new packets from B-62 last night. Are they real?
[07:36] <arko> yes
[07:36] <fsphil> I have faith
[07:37] <arko> hallelujah!
[07:37] <Steve_M6SNK> I have a few observations with interupt driven RTTY on an ATMega328p
[07:37] <Steve_M6SNK> 1st one is that if I try and do anything else in parrallel then the timing suffers
[07:37] <Steve_M6SNK> I do however have to disable interupts to get decent reads on some of my analog sensors but even if I take that out the timing still suffers
[07:37] <Steve_M6SNK> My 2nd observation - is that the PWM examples on the wiki will not work if I use pin 9 as the timers for the PWM frequency and the interupts are shared
[07:37] <Steve_M6SNK> I have a circuit board that I got fabricated and I cant easily move my radio TX pin from pin 9 so I will have to continue using a voltage divider which is fine as it works nicely but for the life of me I cant work out the correct voltage shif mathmatically
[07:37] <LeoBodnar> B-62 will be saved
[07:41] <amell> So ISEE-3 trusters were last fired on 2/2/1987, until yesterday
[07:41] <amell> That is awesome
[07:41] <amell> s/tr/thr
[07:41] <mfa298> for the voltage shift on the ntx2 its around 2000Hz / V (I think derived from the +/- 3KHz deviation and 0-3V input voltage - so 6khz/3V). For PWM in my head and working numbers out I modelled it like a potential divider.
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[07:41] <SM5OCI> B-62 seems to have been hanging around above Khazakhstan (sp?) for a couple of days. Is this hte final resting place for most of leos balloons? I have notices that a surprising number of B-##s have entered the twilight zone in the Georgia/Black sea area.
[07:43] <Steve_M6SNK> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XqNGB2SViWkiGvksLxeDRV9tU5C9rc9Xbe9d6m7BpWg/edit#gid=0
[07:43] <Steve_M6SNK> I read the wiki
[07:43] <amell> SM5OCI: it was only in the area for longer because of a high in the area (loop round) it should be on its way to japan now.
[07:43] <Steve_M6SNK> I popped the maths in to that sheet
[07:43] <mfa298> for the resistor divider setup it's just a potential divider where your switching the resistor connected to the avr between 0V and VCC
[07:43] <Steve_M6SNK> I must be doing something wrong though
[07:44] <Steve_M6SNK> I am running on 3v3
[07:48] <mfa298> I've got a very similar spreadsheet and I agree withthe Carrier shift value you get
[07:48] <Steve_M6SNK> OK
[07:49] <Steve_M6SNK> I observe in dl-fldigi a 390 shift
[07:49] <mfa298> Your R3 value looks to be very high compared to normal (The values I had in my version before I changed it was 4k7 for R1 & R2, and 20K for R3
[07:49] <Steve_M6SNK> Yeah I needed to go that high to get a reasonable shift
[07:49] <Steve_M6SNK> otherwise it was way too wide
[07:49] <Steve_M6SNK> I am running on 3v3
[07:49] <Steve_M6SNK> which is where I think the difference is
[07:50] <mfa298> you want to aim for a shift around 300 Hz
[07:50] <Steve_M6SNK> to get that size shift I would need to go higher
[07:50] <Steve_M6SNK> for R3
[07:50] <mfa298> 6Hz which is the calculated shift is too small unless you're trying to do 1bd
[07:50] <Steve_M6SNK> :)
[07:50] <Steve_M6SNK> Yeah but the actual shift I get is 390
[07:51] <Steve_M6SNK> So it doesnt add up
[07:51] <mfa298> that might suggest there's something else wrong then
[07:51] <Steve_M6SNK> yeah
[07:51] <Steve_M6SNK> I can decode
[07:52] <Steve_M6SNK> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2bdv_o0Gz00OHN3SVdhZjF3X00/edit?usp=sharing
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[07:54] <mfa298> the code isn't still trying to do pwm is it ?
[07:55] <Steve_M6SNK> no - I took that out
[07:55] <mfa298> Just wondering if it's worth trying something like the blink code just to check that the frequency shift is purely down to the resistor network
[07:55] <Steve_M6SNK> I could decode with pwm
[07:56] <Steve_M6SNK> coundnt*
[07:56] <Steve_M6SNK> I tried the code from the wiki
[07:56] <amell> is your uc running at the correct clock frequency?
[07:56] <mfa298> your maths does look right so it would seem to suggest the error with shift being wrong is down to the hardware or code.
[07:56] <amell> blink code worth checking to ensure timing is right
[07:57] <Steve_M6SNK> I tried both my own code and the code from the wiki - I am fairly certain that the code is ok
[07:57] <Steve_M6SNK> I set the baud rate wuth this
[07:57] <Steve_M6SNK> OCR1A = ((F_CPU / 1024) / (RTTY_BAUD));
[07:57] <amell> uh, just had a pile of PP9 battery connectors delivered instead of PP3 :(
[07:58] <Steve_M6SNK> so I can change baud rate simply by setting RTTY_BAUD
[07:58] <Steve_M6SNK> I think the frequency of the clock is ok
[07:58] <Steve_M6SNK> I couldnt read serial out or the gps without it being ok
[08:00] <Steve_M6SNK> So hardware issue - or non-issue as its working :)
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[08:00] <amell> if baud rate is as expected then i guess it would be fine.
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[08:02] <Steve_M6SNK> I am missing something - I think its the conversion between the max 3v on the NTX2B TX pin and my 3.3v circuit
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[08:02] <Steve_M6SNK> the examples on the wiki are all 5v
[08:03] <Steve_M6SNK> there is apparently a 100 ohmn internal resistance on the TX pin of the NTX2B as well
[08:03] <Steve_M6SNK> not sure if it was also on the NTX2
[08:04] <Steve_M6SNK> but even so thats more resistance not less
[08:04] <fsphil> Steve_M6SNK: OCR1A = ((F_CPU / 1024) / (RTTY_BAUD)); this is very slightly wrong
[08:04] <fsphil> it shuld be = F_CPU / 1024 / RTTY_BAUD - 1;
[08:05] <daveake> I believe the V/F ratio is different between NTX2 and B
[08:05] <fsphil> this isn't your problem just thought I'd point it out :)
[08:05] <daveake> I'm pretty sure I had to increase the series resistance going from former to latter
[08:07] <Steve_M6SNK> that would explain it - Ill have a read of the data sheet
[08:07] <Steve_M6SNK> thanks
[08:10] <mfa298> I don't think any of them are exactly 2KHz/V but I don't think any are that far out. That's the figure I assumed for my NTX2B with the Pi DominoEX code and it seemed to work.
[08:12] <daveake> Mine was a pre-production so maybe not set properly
[08:12] <daveake> I usually don't bother with maths - just use my usual 4k7/4k7/20k and then adjust if it's not what I wanted
[08:17] <Steve_M6SNK> the datasheets state they both have a 5kHz nominal bandwidth
[08:17] <Steve_M6SNK> Both operate 0-3v
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[08:21] <Steve_M6SNK> so that makes the shift even smaller
[08:21] <Steve_M6SNK> 1.66 KHz/V
[08:22] <Steve_M6SNK> Somethings not right for sure
[08:22] <Steve_M6SNK> But I think I can live
[08:23] <gonzo__> if it's anything like the basic ntx2, then you only need 100mv or so of keying for a HAB type shift
[08:24] <daveake> It'd be worth mearuing the hi/lo voltages on a scope, or on a DMM if you slow it right down, so you do understand where the frequency shift is coming from
[08:24] <daveake> Also the F/V curve is a curve, not a straight line, so you can't just divide F range by 3V
[08:25] <Steve_M6SNK> Thats a good idea - another reason to buy a scope
[08:26] <daveake> Though a DMM will do this just fine
[08:26] <daveake> and with more precision
[08:26] <Steve_M6SNK> Ill do that
[08:27] <Steve_M6SNK> thanks
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[08:37] <gonzo___> a scope is well worth having. CRT ones are almost free these days
[08:37] <Boelle_DK> Q: the local hackerspace here in DK have a project going... a drone boat supposed to sail arround on its own and messure water quality.... To track it we thought of using space near us.... anything wrong with that?
[08:38] <Boelle_DK> Q2... anyone that has a diagram where the ublox is used.... i find the integration manual somewhat "thin"
[08:39] <Laurenceb> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/153565_trj001.gif
[08:40] <fsphil> there was a channel setup to try something similar Boelle_DK, though it's not terribly active at the moment: #sealevel
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[08:41] <fsphil> as for spacenear, it's not going to be well suited for boat tracking
[08:42] <Boelle_DK> hehe, i could imagine people faces.... a bolon at 1 meter for months :-D
[08:42] <fsphil> it's designed for short term flights. even the week long floating balloons cause it trouble :)
[08:45] <Boelle_DK> just out of curiosity... is the server not fast enough or just limited?
[08:46] <gonzo___> too much data on the page, causing sluggish loading??
[08:46] <Boelle_DK> my thought yes..... but could be due to server not fast enough at loading... or just slow hardware
[08:49] <Boelle_DK> anyways.... designing the GPs module for this boat using the Ublox.... could really use a example diagram....
[08:49] <LeoBodnar> hw integration manual
[08:49] <Boelle_DK> hardware integration manual from ublox is to thin for me.... they show how to do antenna... but not the rest
[08:51] <mfa298> The issue with spacenear.us being slow with lots of data points on a long flight is generally client side.
[08:51] <fsphil> spacenear uses the old google API, which google removed and replaced with a very slow shim
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[08:52] <mfa298> The server can chuck out the data pretty quickly but then the browser has to parse it all client side
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[08:52] <Boelle_DK> ahh... and i guess there is no fix for the speed ?
[08:52] <fsphil> update to the current google maps api and reduce the amount of data sent
[08:53] <fsphil> to the clients browser*
[08:53] <fsphil> at the moment I think spacenear sends a point for every receiver
[08:53] <mfa298> habmap parses the data quicker although that's mostly as it throws out most of the data after plotting it.
[08:53] <fsphil> so if 10 people are receiving it, the same point gets stored 10 times
[08:53] <mfa298> not using the old google maps api helps as well
[08:56] <Boelle_DK> :-) a guy at the hackerspace might help me make an old dram of mine come to life.... a baloon tracker thats fully automatic... we will start with modding habrotate to use a GPS instead of static pos.
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[08:56] <Boelle_DK> then we will add either servo's (powerfull ones) or steppers to aim an antenna
[08:56] <Boelle_DK> if that goes well that far we will try and add decode of signal too
[08:57] <Boelle_DK> and try to put it all on a raspberry pi or beagle bone...
[08:58] <Boelle_DK> once complete we just have to give it a 3G/4G dongle and put it on a grass field, tell it what baloon to track and it should be fire and forget...
[08:58] <Boelle_DK> thats the chrome version of the plan
[08:58] <fsphil> track-o-tron
[08:58] <Boelle_DK> more or less yes
[08:59] <fsphil> http://www.cusf.co.uk/wiki/trackotron
[09:01] <Boelle_DK> yep... more or less that... but more compact
[09:01] <Boelle_DK> thats the end goal at least
[09:02] <Boelle_DK> one box under the tripod with everything in it... and a pan/tilt box that screws on the tripod
[09:02] <Boelle_DK> i gave up on that idea as my programming skills stinks
[09:02] <Boelle_DK> but i can do hardware pretty good
[09:03] <Boelle_DK> our plan is to make a few of these trackers for the boat project and put them near the coast line
[09:03] <fsphil> would you consider using satellite modems for the boat?
[09:04] <Boelle_DK> hehehe... if they are really low power and does not come with a hefty subscription
[09:04] <amell> solar powered?
[09:04] Nick change: kuldeepdhaka_ -> kuldeepdhaka
[09:04] <Boelle_DK> also with a boat its limited what kind of antenna
[09:05] <daveake> They're low power when you don't use them :/. Average power is going to be low.
[09:05] <Boelle_DK> we start out with a big scale RC boat that we gut out so we can have an pi in there
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[09:05] <Boelle_DK> but yes a small solar panel to charge battery...
[09:05] <amell> presumably you will need a compass for steering
[09:06] <Boelle_DK> thou we only use power to move rudder an sails
[09:06] <amell> ah sail power. making more sense now
[09:06] Action: amell wonders how tack and gybe will be coded :)
[09:06] <mfa298> most terrestial radio comms at sea level are likely to be pretty limited (unless you manage to get some sea ducting) so tracking them unless they're close to trackers on the coast will be interesting.
[09:06] <Boelle_DK> yep... the plan is to do it more or less drone style... ie tell boat a route to sail and then it should do that on its own
[09:07] <Boelle_DK> but we will track it from coast line
[09:07] <amell> will they have AIS transmitters?
[09:07] <gonzo___> or a bit of height at the rx site. Basic radar range calc
[09:07] Action: amell can see a few boats getting chewed up by shipping
[09:07] <Boelle_DK> shipping?
[09:08] <amell> container ships
[09:08] <Boelle_DK> ahh... not sure we are going that far out from the coast...
[09:08] <amell> many will only avoid AIS
[09:08] <Boelle_DK> also limited to what we have of that kind in danish waters
[09:08] <gonzo___> or know what they have just run over
[09:09] <gonzo___> stopping distances in miles, I thin k you just have to get out of their way
[09:09] <Boelle_DK> the boat have not even been in water yet...
[09:10] <Boelle_DK> next week is test sail in a lake near by... or pond should i say
[09:10] <gonzo___> what sort of size is this?
[09:10] <mfa298> AIS might make for a better way of tracking as there will be stations actively listening for it. Although you'de need to check the licensing requirement. Marine licensing looks to be interesting.
[09:10] <Boelle_DK> with normal RC transmitter
[09:10] <Boelle_DK> gonzo___: hmmm i would judge it 1½-2 meters in lenght
[09:11] <Boelle_DK> we have radio amatours in the hackspace so no worries
[09:11] <Boelle_DK> first goal is to proove that the servos etc are big enough that we can sail it manual
[09:11] <mfa298> I think in marine stuff generally powered vessels are supposed to give way to sailing vessels - however some of the large container vessels have large exclusion zones around them that you're not supposed to enter
[09:12] <Boelle_DK> then adding the GPS stuff and the pi and have it sail automatic in same pond
[09:12] <mfa298> Boelle_DK: Amateur radio license won't cover you for AIS as that's a marine band thing - Different set of licenses.
[09:13] <Boelle_DK> we are just thinking a bit ahead on how to track the damm thing once we get to real sea water with it
[09:13] <Boelle_DK> i think initial we will be max 100 meters from coast line
[09:14] <mfa298> With some radio amateurs you could look at APRS
[09:14] <Boelle_DK> that we talked about last night
[09:14] <daveake> I've tracked a payload that was about 600m out to sea, fro the beach
[09:14] <Boelle_DK> we have seen baloons use that
[09:15] <Boelle_DK> Very stupid Q.....
[09:15] <Boelle_DK> could APRS be used to command the boat too if we have enough patience?
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[09:19] <Boelle_DK> bahhh... lost connection
[09:21] <gonzo___> you could install an aprs repeater/digi on some vantage point on the coast, to help get the data into the network
[09:21] <Boelle_DK> hmmm....
[09:22] <Boelle_DK> yeah...
[09:22] <Boelle_DK> why not slam that on the tracker :-D it will have a 4G connection anyway
[09:22] <Boelle_DK> when we get that far
[09:23] <gonzo___> when you say tracker, you meanm the thing in the boat?
[09:23] <Boelle_DK> nah... thats not a tracker.... the tracker is the thing on the coast... that tracks the boat :-D
[09:24] <mikestir-work> hi Boelle_DK. to answer your question about the ublox, if you follow the guidelines for the antenna the rest is fairly standard. make sure the supply is well decoupled close to the module, avoid routing stuff underneath it
[09:24] <Boelle_DK> but i guess a'm not a big enough geek to know what is called what
[09:25] <Boelle_DK> mikestir-work: yep... i have the board from when i tried to make a tracker station based on beagle bone...
[09:25] <Boelle_DK> helps a lot and i know that worked damm well
[09:25] <gonzo___> probably would not need 4g. just a digipeater to pick up the boat and retransmit it into the aprs net on rf
[09:25] <Boelle_DK> only difference from then will be i dont supply constant power to the antenna...
[09:26] <Boelle_DK> that will be changed to the ANTON pin so it can be switched on demand
[09:26] <mikestir-work> do you even need an active antenna?
[09:27] <Boelle_DK> gonzo___: we dont put 4G on it because of APRS... but as we need to be able to remote control the tracker station, and here 4G is dirt cheap anyway
[09:27] <Boelle_DK> mikestir-work: trying to recycle what i have from then... and that was an active antenna... i know is uses a bit of power but should not be that bad
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[09:32] <LeoBodnar> so why are you asking for a sample diagram if you have a working design?
[09:34] <Boelle_DK> maybe because i did not remember that i had one at the time i asked for one ?
[09:39] <LeoBodnar> have you by any chance been working on an automatic balloon tracker last year
[09:42] <Boelle_DK> tried... and failed... and scrapped the idea...
[09:42] <Boelle_DK> and then.. after asking...
[09:42] <Boelle_DK> it came to me i had this in basement storage
[09:43] <Boelle_DK> i just need to figure how to implement control for the supply to the active antenna... but got the diagram for that
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[09:48] <Boelle_DK> but well, GPS is done later today...
[09:49] <Boelle_DK> what do people use for radio these days? last time i was here RFM chips from HopeRF was discussed
[09:51] <mikestir-work> NTX2 is still most common. There is some use of RFM22 and RFM69, but also quite a few people using the newer SiLabs chips directly (Si4060, Si4460, etc)
[09:53] <Boelle_DK> Does the NTX2 have more transmit power compared to the RFM ones? i know the RMF ones quite well from another well know project :-D
[09:54] <mikestir-work> no, 10mW max which is the legal limit anyway
[09:54] <Boelle_DK> what i'm after is range to track.. and if possible a way to send commands back to the damm boat :-D
[09:54] <Boelle_DK> does that limit also count for radio amatours with the full license that allows them to build amps etc?
[09:56] <mfa298> 10mW is the ISM limit. Radio amateurs are a different license which has different power levels and different restrictions
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[09:57] <mikestir-work> whether you could have the boat operate under someone's AR callsign would depend on what restrictions you have on unattended operation
[09:57] <Boelle_DK> yeah... and its also a compromise between saving battery life and be able to recharge in daytime
[09:57] <mfa298> but more power may not give you any more range as you're likely to be limited by Line of Sight.
[09:58] <Boelle_DK> yes... damm line of sight... could kill the man that said the earth was not flat :-D
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[10:00] <mfa298> with an amateur radio based tracker you could potentially look at a HF tracker at which point LoS might not be an issue. Although it would be replaced with issues about skip distance. Making an effiecient antenna could also be an issue as well as having enough power.
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[10:01] <Boelle_DK> mmm.... think i will try and limit it to what does not require license...
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[10:02] <gonzo___> for this application I recon line of sight/groundwave is all that will be useful. So vhf/uhf is the sensible choice
[10:03] <gonzo___> and amateur radio needs a licence
[10:04] <Boelle_DK> yep.. just seraching and seems that with a 1-2 meter high mast we can get about 5 km line of sight
[10:04] <gonzo___> the 434mhz that we use in the UK is a licence exempt segmenbt that happens to overlap an amateur band
[10:04] <Boelle_DK> and we never plan to go that far out
[10:04] <Boelle_DK> and i guess then 10mw is more than enough anyway
[10:05] <gonzo___> you will get more range by elevating both tx and rx antennas
[10:05] <gonzo___> rx on shore being the easiest to hoist up high
[10:05] <mfa298> how big is this boat going to be. Unless it's reasonable long and wide I'm not sure a 1-2m high mast will be that stable.
[10:05] <mikestir-work> I think paths over water are difficult RF environments
[10:06] <mikestir-work> I'd suggest you want the rx as high as possible rather than as close to the shore as possible
[10:06] <mikestir-work> if you can get it up a hill a few miles from the coast that would probably still work better
[10:06] <daveake> hill? Denmark??
[10:06] <Boelle_DK> looool
[10:06] <mikestir-work> building then :P
[10:07] <gonzo___> a man made one, called a building
[10:07] <gonzo___> snap
[10:07] <Boelle_DK> yes... we barely have hills
[10:07] <daveake> :)
[10:07] <Boelle_DK> but i get the point :-D
[10:08] <Boelle_DK> but an NTX is not 2 way right?
[10:08] <gonzo___> daveake, how far out was your hab that splashed down of shoream on sea?
[10:08] <gonzo___> off
[10:09] <daveake> 600m
[10:09] <Boelle_DK> and how strong was the signal then?
[10:09] <daveake> Got a clear signal from the beach
[10:09] <Boelle_DK> :-D
[10:09] <mikestir-work> for how long daveake?
[10:09] <gonzo___> and the ant was only just poking out of the water, and you rxed that ok
[10:09] <daveake> Till it came ashore, fell over, and died
[10:10] <mikestir-work> good groundplane though
[10:10] <mikestir-work> quite big
[10:10] <gonzo___> line of sight makes it easy to calc
[10:10] <Boelle_DK> seems promising....
[10:10] <daveake> Yes, the antenna was almost totally submerged
[10:10] <gonzo___> I thouyght you fell over it!
[10:10] <Boelle_DK> even at worst case
[10:10] <daveake> Nah, it fell over as it was washed up
[10:11] <daveake> The signal died when that happened - salt water inside hit the tracker
[10:11] <daveake> well, the modulation died
[10:11] <mikestir-work> actually I don't think the line of sight calc works very well over sea - I have no actual real world experience of this, but I recall issues with microwave links etc. It's because you have highly conductive salt water inside the fresnel zones
[10:11] <daveake> can't remember if there was a carrier still
[10:12] <Boelle_DK> i just did a line of sight calc from 2 meters above sealevel
[10:12] <Boelle_DK> 5.1 km
[10:12] <craag> Boelle_DK: Look up fresnel zones.
[10:13] <daveake> Path back to the beach - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Back-To-Shore-1024x531.png
[10:13] <gonzo___> it always suprises me how close the horizon is from moderate heights above the sea
[10:14] <mfa298> I think water is supposed to potentially help radio signals, but that might be more for HF as its closer to an ideal ground than dry soil.
[10:15] <Boelle_DK> craag: hmm... think i have to read that more than once....
[10:15] <daveake> Teh French GAB trackers near the coast always do very well with UK HABs
[10:15] <mikestir-work> I guess you will see quite a bit of fading due to movement of the sea surface
[10:15] <daveake> HAB
[10:16] <mfa298> this should probably be described as a LAB - Low Altitude Boat
[10:16] <Boelle_DK> :-D
[10:16] <gonzo___> it depends what you are trying to do. A conductive ground can change the radiation pattern nof an hf antenna in adverse ways. eg a horizontal dipole low down, the ground can sent the signal straight up, whioch may not be wanted
[10:17] <gonzo___> so poor ground would be better in some cases
[10:17] <Boelle_DK> yep... at least i can imagine peoples faces... a baloon 2 meters up for months :-D
[10:17] <gonzo___> vertical over a good ground would be getter there
[10:17] <gonzo___> better
[10:17] <gonzo___> we would need a new boat icon
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[10:18] <Boelle_DK> :-D
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[10:19] <Boelle_DK> damm, lost connection again
[10:19] <Boelle_DK> anyway found a calc that takes fresnel in to account
[10:19] <Boelle_DK> http://www.afar.net/fresnel-zone-calculator/
[10:19] <gonzo___> on that shoreham landing, we could have done with a chippie icon as well dave
[10:20] <daveake> True :-)
[10:20] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Fish-and-chip-shop.png
[10:22] <Boelle_DK> me to stupid at that...
[10:22] <Boelle_DK> could not figure out the terms etc.
[10:23] <Boelle_DK> but i could ask in another way... is 10mw enough to transmit 5km's if there are no buildings etc in the way?
[10:23] <Boelle_DK> i know its not the same at sea
[10:24] <Boelle_DK> only thing i know for sure is that the horizon at 2 meters up will be 5 km away
[10:24] <adamgreig> it's not the same because the ground 'gets in the way'
[10:24] <adamgreig> radio waves aren't a laser beam
[10:25] <adamgreig> you may find you need more than 2m, but it'l depend on local terrain too
[10:25] <adamgreig> it's not hard to get a pole or mast to put an antenna on though, in general
[10:25] <mikestir-work> also "is 10mW enough" is not sufficient to answer the question. it also depends on bitrate, rx channel bandwidth, etc
[10:26] <mikestir-work> if you are going to use something like an RFM22B then in the shore->boat direction you are going to be constrained by the capabilities of its receiver, which is relatively wideband
[10:26] <mikestir-work> so therefore I would say no, probably not
[10:27] <Boelle_DK> ok... lets take worst case... boat mast 2 meter high... me on coast line at sea level... maybe with a 4 meter mast
[10:28] <mikestir-work> however, you could maybe use more power for the shore->boat link by operating under amateur radio, then use a high quality, narrowband receiver on the shore so that you can reduce the transmit power in the boat->shore direction
[10:28] <Boelle_DK> how far would 10mw get me out?
[10:28] <Boelle_DK> 2 ways com is optinal
[10:28] <Boelle_DK> optional
[10:29] <Boelle_DK> but would be damm nice
[10:30] <gonzo___> do a trial, make a free floating beacon and test it
[10:30] <gonzo___> or get a friendly yachty to take it out when they are sailing
[10:31] <Boelle_DK> hmm... what would an educated guess be?
[10:32] <mikestir-work> as has already been stated, it doesn't just depend on transmitter power so a guess is going to be quite meaningless
[10:32] <mfa298> I've picked up payloads that were more like 1m above ground over a much longer distance. But I was more like 30m above ground. In other cases I've not had it's been much shorter distances and even quite patchy (i.e. driving down the road the signal would go from really strong to nothing detectable)
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[10:33] <mikestir-work> I noticed that I had fully decoded WG2's transmitter from home while we were inside the building at the school last week
[10:34] <gonzo___> if dave confirms 600mtrs for an antenna that is barly out of the water, to a car mounted antenna on the shore road, I recon a metre of so height will be better, especailly if you have more height at the rx
[10:34] <mikestir-work> that's about 3 miles away
[10:34] <mikestir-work> and that was only 4mW
[10:34] <mfa298> Boelle_DK: how big is this boat ?
[10:34] <Boelle_DK> mfa298: 1½-2 meters long.... but have not messured...
[10:34] <Boelle_DK> its an BIG rc boat
[10:35] <Boelle_DK> sail... no engine
[10:35] <fsphil> this sounds like a microtransat boat
[10:35] <fsphil> snoopy
[10:35] <mfa298> how wide and how tall is the mast on it ?
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[10:35] <Boelle_DK> mast about the same... have not messured it yet
[10:35] <fsphil> http://www.microtransat.org/2012_joker_boat.php
[10:35] <mfa298> as in the last the sail is on ?
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[10:36] <Boelle_DK> fsphil: that is damm close to it
[10:36] <Boelle_DK> sail is on... we aim to test with normal RC in a big pond near by
[10:36] <Boelle_DK> just to see that rudder etc works
[10:37] <mfa298> if it's just a wire at the top of the existing mast that's probably reasonably stable although I'm not sure id trust that to stay upright on the ocean
[10:38] <Boelle_DK> we plan on a rubber whip antenna... but yes of course it has to be stable at sea
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[10:38] <Boelle_DK> and not be so heavy that it can tilt the boat
[10:39] <mfa298> I'm just wondering about a wire inverted V, feed point at top of the mast and wires to the boats fore and aft
[10:39] <mikestir-work> a rubber duck is going to need some kind of ground plane, and presumably the mast is not metal?
[10:40] <mikestir-work> you can use it but I'd add some radials
[10:40] <mfa298> I suspect a rubber duck on top of the mast would add significant turnign force
[10:41] <Boelle_DK> hmm... if i remember it correct they have add thin stell cables to fore and aft... and sides
[10:42] <Boelle_DK> but mast was either plastic or glass fiber
[10:42] <Boelle_DK> BBL
[10:44] <fsphil> use a pump to create a jet of sea water, instant antenna :)
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> rubber duck at sea is logical choice
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> i think it's patented fsphil
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[10:45] <fsphil> only in the US
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> it's all theoretical anyway
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> not going to happen
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[10:46] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tIZUhu21sQ
[10:46] Nick change: James -> Guest46380
[10:46] <Guest46380> Hi anyone able to help a beginner with some tracking queries
[10:47] <fsphil> fire away Guest46380
[10:47] <fsphil> btw, type /nick <nickname> to set your name to something better than Guest :)
[10:47] <fsphil> try to pick something you think nobody else would use
[10:48] <Guest46380> Trying to decode data from a PITS board got a signal but how do we decode the data. (my HAM guy asks is it Rtty?)
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> that's not very ambitious
[10:48] Nick change: Guest46380 -> JamesR
[10:48] Nick change: JamesR -> JRobinson-uk
[10:48] <fsphil> it is rtty yes
[10:48] <fsphil> what receivers do you have if any?
[10:48] <daveake> Set the radio to USB mode
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> and turn "Rv" off
[10:49] <JRobinson-uk> ft817
[10:49] <fsphil> ah well setup
[10:49] <daveake> perfect
[10:49] <JRobinson-uk> rv? is that software?
[10:49] <mfa298> set the receiver mode in dl-fldigi to USB (or RTTYR - but not RTTY)
[10:49] <daveake> Do you have dl-fldigi installed and running?
[10:50] <fsphil> the Rv is an option in dl-fldigi
[10:50] <JRobinson-uk> yes to dl-fldigi
[10:50] <daveake> OK, you need to set dl-fldigi to RTTY, 300 baud, 8 bits, no pariity, 2 stop bits
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> button in bottom right corner of dl-fldigi
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> SQL off as well
[10:52] <daveake> dl-fldigi should look something like this: http://i.imgur.com/bxO23aA.jpg
[10:53] <JRobinson-uk> does the ft817 need to be at exactly same freq and transmit
[10:54] <JRobinson-uk> ours says 300 / 170 for baud?
[10:54] <daveake> No, it needs to be set to just below the NTX2B Tx frequency
[10:54] <fsphil> 170 is your shift, that's too small
[10:54] <daveake> 170 needs to be 880
[10:54] <JRobinson-uk> where's that set
[10:54] <daveake> which is the shift beween the low and high notes
[10:55] <daveake> right-click the RTTY label bottom-left
[10:55] <JRobinson-uk> found it
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[10:58] <JRobinson-uk> getting data but not seeing the transmitted string
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[11:01] <JRobinson-uk> setting shift to 880 but displaying 300 / 170 still
[11:01] <daveake> It should change immediately
[11:03] <JRobinson-uk> seems to have kept that setting now
[11:03] <JRobinson-uk> sorry I'm on 1 pc and HAM guy at laptop other end of the room
[11:04] <daveake> I have to share ... http://faszynfromraszyn.pl/images/364/5308b178c841e87d823284dc6a0e2c930e2211153c4d3.jpg
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> hahah
[11:06] <JRobinson-uk> Ham guy says it doesn't sound like rtty
[11:06] <daveake> It's 300 baud rtty
[11:07] <daveake> Doesn't sound like 50 baud
[11:07] <fsphil> more like noise than two nice separate tones
[11:10] <JRobinson-uk> so eg like this http://tenbus.co.uk/icaruscapture.mp3
[11:10] <JRobinson-uk> or is that 50 baud
[11:10] <daveake> that'll be 50
[11:11] <daveake> this is 300 by default
[11:11] <JRobinson-uk> ok thanks
[11:11] <fsphil> I've a sample of 300 baud ssdv at http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/ssdv-sample-20120916.zip
[11:11] <amell> show us a picture of your dl-fldigi?
[11:12] <daveake> JRobinson-uk Upload a pic of .... ok amell got there first :)
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[11:12] <amell> always the best way with dl-fldigi.
[11:13] <JRobinson-uk> ok we're not getting that, more like static
[11:13] <daveake> You're not tuned in then. You should see and hear the signal very clearly
[11:14] <amell> picture?
[11:14] <fsphil> you may need to tune around a bit on the ft817
[11:14] <mfa298> have you tuned around with the radio a bit to see if you can find it - should be a strong signal within a few KHz of whats on the ntx2
[11:14] <fsphil> using the fine tuner
[11:14] <amell> oh, not using a SDR dongle? doh.
[11:16] <JRobinson-uk> we're on 434.250.10, reboot
[11:16] <JRobinson-uk> rebooting even
[11:17] <amell> the sound of 300 baud rtty is unmistakable
[11:17] <amell> makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
[11:18] <daveake> Don't forget that the software can change the ntx2b frequency, so check the setting in pisky.txt
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[11:19] <gonzo___> I get the same effect from hayfever
[11:20] <fsphil> makes me cry
[11:20] <fsphil> (hayfever, not rtty)
[11:21] <gonzo___> hearing HF makes me cry
[11:22] <gonzo___> may be worth taking the antenna off the 817, to be sure it;s not some local sprog you are hearing
[11:26] <amell> is there a way to have two arduinos connected and being able to load different sketch into each? I cant seem to connect to more than one serial port at the same time.
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[11:28] <Laurenceb_> from the land of wtf
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/PF259567
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> power architecture arduino
[11:30] PE2G (~PE2G@2001:982:57a:1:c1d2:47e4:366c:c0e8) joined #highaltitude.
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> SPC5Studio includes HighTec GNU "C" compiler, with a 30-days full free trial license.
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> lolling
[11:34] <mikestir-work> these trial licenses for GCC make me laugh
[11:34] Nick change: Guest46264 -> jdiez
[11:34] <mikestir-work> just like the expensive commercial versions of eclipse
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[11:34] <Laurenceb_> not sure whats funnier, that or a powerpc arduino
[11:34] <mikestir-work> no that just makes me cry
[11:35] Action: nats` is making an eye overdose of *crap*duino stuff
[11:35] <JRobinson-uk> no "frequency" attribute set in pisky.txt so should default to freq of ntx
[11:36] <JRobinson-uk> getting "unknown NNEA sentence GPRMC" on pi after reboot
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[11:38] <daveake> yeah fine it'll sort itself out
[11:38] <JRobinson-uk> ahhhh got it and then lost it
[11:39] <daveake> It might be worth killing the tracker program (sudo killall tracker) then just look for the carrier wave
[11:39] <fsphil> did you take that screenshot?
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[11:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> Another brave offshore tracker! HABham1
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[11:45] <Maxell> Even the turn key solutions like pi in the sky are not that turn key :P
[11:46] <fsphil> neither is a car if you've never driven before :)
[11:47] <JRobinson-uk> getting the pi end working is fine, it's the tracking that's the tricky bit (for me anyway)
[11:48] Action: Reb-SM3ULC has spent 3-4 months on a "turn key" solution at work. Only to end up redesigning the sytem form scratch because the system engineers can't do themselves...
[11:49] Action: mfa298 dreams of being rich enough to be able to afford a boat so he can track from offshore
[11:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> mfa298: big glassbotle with rpi inside, rtlsdr and some higgpower uplink to shore? :)
[11:53] <daveake> JRobinson-uk PM window please
[11:56] <fsphil> mfa298: you don't need to be rich :)
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> HEHE.... yes that could be another thing... make drone boats to make tracker network and extend range :-D
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[11:56] <fsphil> it doesn't have to be a *good* boat :)
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> fsphil: but has to float?
[11:56] <Boelle_DK> :-P
[11:56] <fsphil> Boelle_DK: jcoxon had a similiar idea :) APRS network of buoys
[11:56] <mfa298> It's not so much the cost of the boat that's the issue, it's storing and transporting it
[11:56] <fsphil> yea storing it is a pain, and the fuel efficiency is awful
[11:57] <fsphil> I nearly bought one last year until I read about the running costs
[11:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: for a boat?
[11:58] <mfa298> from southampton it could also take a long time to get anywhere. I think it's a 6 knot speed limit for a fair way.
[11:58] <Boelle_DK> Q... and i dont know much about sailing etc in general... but what are the rules on buoys ? can a private individual just set them out?
[11:58] <fsphil> dunno about buoys, but anyone can sail a boat
[11:58] <gonzo___> I once heard that if you want to see what sailing is all about, with out committing to a boat. Stand in a bucket of water and throw fivers away every few seconds
[11:58] <fsphil> no license required
[11:59] <fsphil> technically you need a marine radio license but I get the impression nobody has that
[11:59] <gonzo___> (though a boaty I recalled that to said that it was wowfully out of date, it's twenties now)
[11:59] <fsphil> and the coast guard are not going to complain about the lack of radio license if you're in trouble
[11:59] <daveake> I've been on a sailboat precisely once.
[11:59] <daveake> I was the ballast
[11:59] <daveake> A harder job than I thought ...
[11:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[12:00] <gonzo___> sitting on one in the quay is my closest
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[12:00] Action: Reb-SM3ULC feels lika a professional sailor
[12:00] <daveake> You have to get the timing right when you jump over the top as they tack
[12:00] <fsphil> half the members of the radio club I'm in seem to own boats
[12:00] <daveake> So there we were, bouncing round in the harbour, when a gun goes off and we start racing ..
[12:00] <gonzo___> that seems what most sailing boats are for. Sitting to lose. Or taking up drive space
[12:00] <daveake> ... nobody told me about that bit
[12:01] <gonzo___> I'd race too if a gun went off, to the bog
[12:01] <mfa298> you only need the marine radio license if you're using a marine radio on a boat, which I don't think is a requirement until you get into big boats or commercial operations
[12:02] <gonzo___> would a bouy need a licence as the operator is licenced and there is no operator
[12:02] <fsphil> I wouldn't want to be on a boat without some kind of radio
[12:02] <fsphil> though mobile phones work some way out, I'd not want to rely on it
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[12:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: still people doesn't get the fact that broadcasting to people close by is pretty difficult with a mobile phone..
[12:09] <fsphil> P2P GSM
[12:09] <fsphil> that should be a thing
[12:09] <fsphil> the network operators wouldn't be able to charge for it
[12:10] <craag> Hence why it'll never be thing ;)
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[12:18] <fsphil> DIY phone, wonder if an stm32 would be fast enough for real time Opus encoding
[12:18] <fsphil> a phone mesh network
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, once you do the numbers, mesh networks are a lie.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Once you get past clusters of a dozen or so nodes, the scaling stops working.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Phones work well, not because of their technology.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> Phones work well because they are in planned networks with allocated non-overlapping frequencies
[12:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> >3 hops is almost impossible to get to work
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Mesh networks have major problems because as you wind up the number of nodes, you eventually get to when you can't detect there is another station transmitting before transmitting
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> This means that the other stations outside that range are pure noise, dramatically raising your noise floor, and killing your range.
[12:22] <Reb-SM3ULC> <= did master thesis in evaluating methods for ad hoc networks. the answer is most often not to play. not with some realtiem traffic.
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Plus, there is the obvious point that if you have an average 100 hops till you get to your destination, then you have 1% of your theoretical bandwidth available, as 99% of other users trafic you'r routing
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[12:22] <SpeedEvil> And then there is the thorny problem of cheaters.
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[12:23] <craag> especially with the fun of the network changing *during* your call
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[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Routing is a whole nother fun topic.
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Especially given that real-life networks will have 'pinch points'
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[12:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> craag: i think push-to-talk is the only communication somewhat possible over >2 hop mesh
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> It does depend on the duty cycle somewhat.
[12:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> SpeedEvil: i think i listed about 160 types of ad hoc routing protocols when i did my thesis..
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> Reb-SM3ULC: eeek.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> Reb-SM3ULC: I was just basing the above off a ratehr simple paper I read ~20y ago.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> One thing that does in fact change this is steerable antennas.
[12:26] <SpeedEvil> In principle 60GHz might actually work adequately in mesh, with pointable antennas.
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> As the atmosphere eats any stray energy
[12:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> SpeedEvil: did my thesis som 12y ago.. so not yesterday.. should be another 200% more new ideas of how to route... :)
[12:27] <SpeedEvil> And I'm betting most of them don't cover cheaters.
[12:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> SpeedEvil: right, active antennas could radicly improve stuff
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> Adding reputation based routing or stuff is going to add a whole pile of more thesis material on it, but perhaps not actual usable networks
[12:29] <Reb-SM3ULC> SpeedEvil: i would say all.. :) but i've seen stuff with every node has a certificate that one can widthdraw.. but how easy in an heterogenous world...
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[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Well, 'all' GSM devices are sort-of-secure and not hackable.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> I have one of the few devices that is actually not.
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[12:31] <SpeedEvil> In that the dev-kit for the GSM chipset got leaked, including source and docs for the chips
[12:31] <amell> fsphil: marine license is required to obtain DSC identity
[12:32] <amell> i.e. the MMSI number
[12:33] Action: amell is an offshore yachtsman
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[12:34] <SpeedEvil> That must come in handy for recoveries. :)
[12:34] <amell> if you go to sea without working radio and EPIRB, then you are a candidate for darwin awards
[12:35] <mfa298> that may depend on what you mean by going out to sea.
[12:36] <amell> anywhere on the sea. mobile signal cannot be guaranteed. when your life is at risk you need to be able to contact someone.
[12:36] <mfa298> I think there's a fair number of people that paddle / row / swim to the IoW from around here without a radio.
[12:36] <amell> the solent is generally well covered by mobile, but i wouldnt class the solent as the sea.
[12:37] <mfa298> I'd certainly agree that you want some sort of radio if you're going out any distance from the coast.
[12:37] <gonzo___> gliders don't have to have radio either
[12:38] <gonzo___> though lots have a handheld radio (as they does nokt need toi be a certified unit as it is not installed)
[12:38] <mfa298> although if you're going much distance you may well want marine HF instead of marine VHF as well.
[12:38] <amell> even if you are sailing a mile from shore, you need a radio.
[12:38] <amell> handheld marine radio requires a license.
[12:39] <mfa298> I think a lot of the gliders use un official channels that aren't actually licensed for them to use.
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> arko: licence is not required for emergencies though
[12:40] Action: amell looks around for arko
[12:40] <amell> license is required whether its an emergency or not.
[12:40] <mfa298> there's a lot of people using radio for various things that should have licenses but dont. and lots of places selling things like 2/70 handies with no mention of needing a license
[12:41] <amell> Its a Short range certificate. Nothing to do with normal ham radio
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> amell: oops
[12:41] <amell> basically covers radio etiquette, i.e. pan pan, pan medico, mayday etc.
[12:42] <gonzo___> but if you are in the poo, you would not really care that you get a telling off after being rescued
[12:42] Action: mfa298 agrees with amell. I'm pretty sure for marine a license is required for emergencies. But that the likely hood of someone being prosecuted for using a radio without a license for an emergency is highly unlikely
[12:43] <amell> I agree, but its still required legally speaking. i.e. its in the judges discretion. In any case, you wouldnt be able to use a VHF DSC handheld without a MMSI number, and to get that you need a license.
[12:45] <gonzo___> I used to have a 127.5/243 meg beacon in the rucksack on the strength of, being alive and safe enough to get prosecuted was the better of the outcomes
[12:45] <craag> Some guys in my housemate's sailing club used their radio without a license to call for assistance when really they didn't need it. The coastguard offered to waive all charges if they sorted out licenses for everyone.
[12:45] <mfa298> amell: I wasn't talkign about the short range stuff with people using stuff that's not allowed. I came across various bits for gliders and similar using 5W amateur handhelds just off the amateur band - which wasn't a licensed frequency for them to use
[12:45] <amell> craag: that must have been before DSC radios.
[12:46] <craag> So I think they're a bit relaxed - but do prefer that you have one, so come the emergency, you do know how to use it properly.
[12:46] <craag> amell: Earlier this year... don't know details.
[12:46] <gonzo___> lots of people use stuff that is avail to buy, and no idea about any licence of spectrum issues. They buy a phone and talk, and it just works. So have no idea that a yingtong radio off ebay is any different
[12:47] <amell> gonzo__: PLB/EPIRB is 406Mhz. 121.5 and 243Mhz beacons are now banned.
[12:47] <craag> amell: dsc is the built-in gps alert button tech right?
[12:47] <gonzo___> yep, this predated 406meg
[12:47] <amell> craag: and for station to station calling.
[12:48] <amell> you can call other MMSI numbers directly without anyone listening in
[12:48] <gonzo___> the sarsats don't monitor those freqs, but aircraft still do
[12:48] <craag> amell: Ok, they just a cheap handheld iirc, but now have fitted a boat with a radio with alert button and gps.
[12:49] <amell> craag: yes, that makes sense. if youre sinking, just lift flap and hit the red button, and digital mayday gets sent with gps coords
[12:49] <amell> GMDSS
[12:50] <craag> ideal. Just don't hit it willy-nilly. (I think the call that got them into trouble was running out of fuel in the solent, coastguard weren't amused)
[12:50] <amell> station to station incoming call alarm is LOUD on most boats :)
[12:51] <amell> craag: theres a few of those happen in the solent, stag parties on a beer afloat day etc.
[12:52] <gonzo___> just get them to piss in the tank!
[13:00] <mikestir-work> samsung to stop making plasma screens - hurray!
[13:01] <fsphil> just need the ethernet over powerline market to crash
[13:01] <Darkside> haha
[13:02] <mikestir-work> and for them to start taking enforcement action against chinese smpsus
[13:06] <amell> this made me shake my head in disbelief - http://www.tuaw.com/2014/07/02/lock-your-mac-pro-to-your-desk-with-apples-security-lock-adapte/ - why not just put a kensington lock hole in the mac in the first place!
[13:07] <mfa298> because apple don't have a patent for kensington lock
[13:07] <amell> all mac laptops have kensington lock holes&
[13:07] <craag> ethernet-over-powerline adaptors work annoyingly well
[13:08] <amell> craag: except when plugged into a surge protector socket.
[13:08] <fsphil> all new houses should have ethernet points along with power lines
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[13:08] <craag> (so well you have to be careful about connecting to your neighbour's line)
[13:08] <craag> amell: Really?
[13:08] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: there's an ios-standard for apartment-networks :)
[13:09] <amell> yes, surge protector filters the powerline signal out. easily done seeing as many people use surge protected extension cables now.
[13:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> s/ios/iso
[13:09] <gonzo___> friends who have done rewires recentlky have run lots of cat6 and ct100 to all rooms
[13:09] <mfa298> with everything turning into internet enabled devices we should just use Power over Ethernet
[13:09] <craag> ah ok pricey surge protectors may have filters
[13:09] <fsphil> I've cat5 going to most rooms in my house
[13:09] <fsphil> also my shed :)
[13:09] <Maxell> cat5 is quite leaky
[13:09] Action: Reb-SM3ULC have about 200m+ cat6a.
[13:10] <Maxell> and the shielded foil cable is better
[13:10] <amell> Have you actually heard of someone connecting to their neighbours powerline? I dont think its possible cos of the filter in your meter.
[13:10] <gonzo___> there is lots of cat5 to my shed. Though most is used for DC switching
[13:10] <Maxell> amell: no you have to pair 'em and it does aes encryption
[13:10] <fsphil> I couldn't afford cat6 or STP when I was originally putting in ethernet
[13:10] <fsphil> regret it now, it causes a lot of RF noise
[13:11] <amell> Personally i think the main problem with houses now is the lack of ductwork. I had to put all mine in.
[13:11] <mfa298> amell: there's at least one demonstrtion of powerline adapters working accross seperate mains setups (i.e. one was running off a battery and inverter)
[13:11] <gonzo___> I had lots of cat5 end of box runs from work
[13:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: what kind of cable do you have?
[13:11] <fsphil> cat5 utp
[13:11] <gonzo___> there is prib about 10 runs to the shed by now. i lose count
[13:11] <fsphil> hah, beats me
[13:11] <mikestir-work> there's a video somewhere of a guy running a power line adapter off a generator and it connecting to the other one in his house (on the mains)
[13:11] <fsphil> I've only two cat5's going to the shed
[13:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: ah, i was wrong, i only have cat6 utp, not cat6a
[13:12] <fsphil> one of the cat5 cables just carries video and sound from the nestbox
[13:12] <fsphil> the other one is ethernet
[13:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: cat6a utp is kind of large cable :)
[13:12] <gonzo___> i think there is only one run used for ethernet (and being a tight wad it's split to two 2 pair sockets
[13:13] <amell> I put a 50mm soil pipe as a duct just for cables i.e. cctv, ethernet, aerials between my study and the loft. Makes it easier to route stuff around.
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[13:14] <fsphil> my house has what looks like left over water pipe going from the front room to the attic
[13:14] <gonzo___> the run to the shed is about 40mtrs of 4" gutter down pipe, burried under the patio
[13:14] <gonzo___> and the bugger is full
[13:14] <fsphil> there's a little kink in the middle so it's quite difficult getting cable all the way through
[13:14] <amell> pull cord?
[13:14] <fsphil> yea I ended up using that
[13:15] <fsphil> managed to get a cat5 and coax cable down it
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[13:15] <amell> dread to think whats in this pipe if its full and its 4
[13:16] <Quetzal> Hey, guys I want to launch a high altitude weathballon but Im completly new to this and dont know where to start in terms of learning is there any advice you guys can offer?
[13:16] <craag> amell: I can't find the source now. I heard of any issue that when Orange starting blocking P2P sites, several BT customers complained, even though BT weren't blocking them yet. After some confusion it was found that when you set up the initial pairing for the pwerline adaptors, an orange box would respond a few ms faster than a bt one. Meaning that a small percentage of BT customers had paired with a neighbours Orange box. Google and facebook worked
[13:16] <fsphil> or what's living in it
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[13:17] <fsphil> hiya Quetzal. have you found the UKHAS wiki yet?
[13:17] <gonzo___> i have some 32mm waster pipe under the front drive for cctv etc. The neigbours had builders in to do a new fence. I pointed out to them where the duct was and to take cate of ot. So they dug the hole for the fence posts and just bent my pipe out of the way, kinking it. Pinching the cable and I can';t even pull new through
[13:17] <fsphil> Quetzal: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[13:18] <mikestir-work> gonzo___: get them back to dig up and re-lay your drive
[13:18] <amell> agreed
[13:18] <amell> its on your land, so their responsibility to put right
[13:19] <gonzo___> don't want to fall out with the neigbours. Get on to well. But bloody monkey builders
[13:19] <Quetzal> thanks for the link, where could I find guides into how to build the thing? and also anything else I need to consider?
[13:19] <gonzo___> I had to dig it all up to find the probelm, so I've done 90% of the work
[13:19] <Ian_> Thinks of ducting full of water.
[13:20] <gonzo___> the one down the other side was full. I pulled out the lower coupling and it gushed for about 10sec
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[13:21] <gonzo___> waste pipe is great for keeping water in. Sort of in the design
[13:21] <fsphil> Quetzal: that page should cover a good bit, and possibly leave you with more questions :)
[13:22] <fsphil> I'd give it a good read first
[13:22] <Quetzal> will do ^^
[13:22] <fsphil> where abouts are you?
[13:23] <Ian_> It does make you wonder about the degree of protection you are offering the cables. Ideal for mice . . . nibble, nibble; or submerged cables. A regular problem that isn't often discussed I guess. BT ducts must often be swimming.
[13:25] <Quetzal> in Lancashire
[13:26] <fsphil> ah was going to say you could possibly visit a launch, but that's a bit far from most of them
[13:26] <fsphil> there seem to be fewer launches the further north you go
[13:27] <gonzo___> the BT plant kit is pertty robust. They free issue it to builders etc.
[13:27] <mfa298> I've also come accross inteligent rodents. They were able to chew through the active pair of fibres in a bundle of fibre. Move the circuit to a differnt pair to get it back up and within a few days they'de found that pair as well.
[13:27] <gonzo___> not heard of mouce problems. Must be the materials are not attractive to rodents
[13:28] <fsphil> only rat problem I ever had was with the cable for my PV panels
[13:28] <gonzo___> did they move your mains wiring over to the other side of the meter too?
[13:28] <fsphil> hah
[13:28] <fsphil> no
[13:29] <gonzo___> a guy who used to write a piece for the amsat magazine, was at the arctic station. They had probs with polar bears eating the coax
[13:30] <gonzo___> would need a bloody big trap for one of them
[13:30] <fsphil> haha
[13:30] <FuzzyLemon> woohooo I'm launching a 1200g on saturday!
[13:30] <gonzo___> and nice stories of replacing them. as the cold froze the cable as soon as the air hit it
[13:31] <gonzo___> so had to unwind the drum out through a crack in the door, then hoist the cable as a stick
[13:32] <fsphil> I'd still like to visit
[13:33] <gonzo___> I applied for an eng/lab tech post when I graduated. Sounded fun.
[13:33] <gonzo___> 3 yrs later I got a reply
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[13:38] <gonzo___> a story from someone who worked on the DEW line system in the 60/70's. Apparentky bone guy bout at a remote site for months, was using the bulldozer to move 1000s of tons of snow about to spell a rude word. Years later it was seen by satellile
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[13:45] <amell> FuzzyLemon: has the forecast changed?
[13:49] <daveake> Looks a bit windy
[13:52] <mfa298> looks less rainy - at least for Town Centre (aka basingstoke)
[13:54] <craag> :)
[13:54] <daveake> Yes, but then you'd have to be in the centre of Basingstoke, which is a bad thing :)
[13:55] <mfa298> hopefully we'll be ok in a field just outside of basingstoke
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[13:58] <mfa298> hopefully any rain is attracted towards west london and northampton
[14:11] <Boelle_DK> BACK... *i hear loads of ohhh no* :-D
[14:11] <Boelle_DK> had to get this GPS PCB done
[14:12] <Boelle_DK> the NTX are only one way right?
[14:12] <Boelle_DK> radiometrix
[14:12] <fsphil> transmitters only
[14:13] <fsphil> there is the NRX2 which is the matching receiver for the NTX2, but isn't suited for long distance
[14:13] <LeoBodnar> inb4 questions: [14:20] <DL7AD> https://yadi.sk/i/qltcpIgdVrPgS [14:20] <DL7AD> https://yadi.sk/i/E55gNw16VrPh7 [14:21] <DL7AD> https://yadi.sk/i/KKhE_PzUVrPhb
[14:14] <Boelle_DK> oki....
[14:15] <Boelle_DK> what is long distance in this regard?
[14:15] <fsphil> radiometrix suggest 500m
[14:16] <Boelle_DK> nope not a whole lot
[14:16] <fsphil> not really no
[14:16] <mattbrejza> i reckon you could do 50 baud afsk telemetry with a ntx2/nrx2 from a balloon
[14:16] <mattbrejza> might need the addition of a habamp
[14:17] <Boelle_DK> mattbrejza: yep but this is not for a baloon....
[14:17] <mattbrejza> im aware, just making the point
[14:17] <Boelle_DK> joined a boat project at local hackspace
[14:17] <fsphil> your boat project might be better on 869mhz
[14:17] <Boelle_DK> oki....
[14:17] <fsphil> smaller antennas, higher power
[14:18] <mattbrejza> there is a buoy frequency of 50something i seem to remember
[14:18] <mattbrejza> perhaps 100mW
[14:18] <mikestir-work> Boelle_DK: I think the idea of floating a disposable test beacon is a good one, because this is a totally different radio environment vs balloon-ground comms
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> yeap... have been poking my mind about RFM22B
[14:18] <fsphil> the rfm22b might actually be useful in this case yea
[14:18] <fsphil> they don't really like the cold, but not as big an issue for a buoy
[14:18] <Boelle_DK> mikestir-work: we might do that.... just want a plan that is not total bonkers
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[14:21] <Boelle_DK> but yes RFM22B might do the job... carefull designed antenna is also needed as a boat can tilt and aim the power either down the water or up the sky
[14:21] <fsphil> standard quarterwave should do
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[14:23] <Boelle_DK> noted
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> do you really believe you can tilt antenna and aim the power "down the water"?
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> you have the groundplane the size of the planet
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[14:26] <Boelle_DK> an omni that is not horizontal would loose some of the strenght when the boat tilts....
[14:26] <Boelle_DK> but you are also right
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[14:48] <gonzo___> a sleve dipole in a light plastic tube above the mast, they would get some more height and not have much effect on the stability, apart from wind loading
[14:48] <gonzo___> sleeve
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[14:52] <amell> an omni that is pivoted with a counterweight would remain horizontal as the boat tilts
[14:53] <fsphil> overkill
[14:53] <amell> agree but it is an answer to the question the original person posed.
[14:54] <fsphil> unlikely that it tilting would cause much trouble, but if it did best to just accept that not all packets will get through
[14:54] <amell> ooh my helium just arrived
[14:54] <fsphil> waves blocking the path will be more of an issue
[14:55] <fsphil> if it's on the horizon
[14:58] <LeoBodnar> shit weather is more of an issue
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[14:58] <LeoBodnar> no sun for a week, depleted battery, unknown position and loss of control, currents take it away
[14:59] <mfa298> for this something like the rfm22 / rfm69 and using their built in modulation is pontentially a better idea. packets of data will be much shorter so the chance of loosing part of a packet is reduced and you could send them more often
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[15:01] <racer> hello all together
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[15:04] <fsphil> too obvious
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[15:21] <gonzo___> that would be an educational boat launch then leo
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[15:22] <gonzo___> I am taking the, no launch site rx, launch without gps lock, gsm tracking etc as read
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[15:55] <LeoBodnar> B-62 updated, proof: [16:15] <DL7AD> https://yadi.sk/i/_Csm7tFwVs5jt [16:15] <DL7AD> https://yadi.sk/i/uzIJIT90Vs5kV
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[15:57] <Laurenceb_> wow
[15:58] <Laurenceb_> hysplit time
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> hah nice radio
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> lol the reply icon
[15:59] <Laurenceb_> you should have a airborne messagebox function
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/166345_trj001.gif
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> alaska
[16:02] <Laurenceb_> unless it loops
[16:06] <amell> what radio is that?
[16:07] <amell> B-62 is doing well for evidence!
[16:23] <aadamson> Now if you can just figure out how to deal with a slip ring and power, you'd have 360 degrees of z axis stabilization (along with the other 2)... some form of simple communications between a compass and the controller and you could fix the point whereever you wanted - http://www.rctimer.com/product_1072.html
[16:24] <aadamson> I'm gonna have to figure out how to clone that on a 3d printer, it would be one of the easier to *print*
[16:29] <Laurenceb_> the clever bit is the controller and modified motors
[16:29] <Laurenceb_> im still not convinced by the use of modified brushless motors, rather than pancake steppers
[16:29] <Laurenceb_> but wih each new version of the modified motors they get closer to pancake steppers
[16:35] <aadamson> controller is easy...https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2370.JPG (note the F405 ) :)...
[16:35] <aadamson> motors for gopro are no problem either...
[16:35] <aadamson> max current on the whole setup with 3 axis is tops about .5-.75A
[16:35] <aadamson> on a 3S lipo
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> wow
[16:36] <Laurenceb_> not bad
[16:36] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2349.JPG - the F1 version but bleh, who want's and F1, when you can have an F4
[16:36] <aadamson> :)
[16:37] <aadamson> either of those with talk to the MPU9250 (which has compass integrated)
[16:38] <aadamson> I suppose you could include an RC RX and control it's point, if using SSDV, you'd get a delayed, but feedback of it's point... those boards will handle 3 axis movement control on the motors as well as stabilization
[16:38] <aadamson> and RX input
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[16:52] <db_g6gzh> B-62 is back on APRS-IS via RA0WKV
[16:52] <DL7AD> :)
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[16:53] <Laurenceb_> aha the aprs from Abakan
[16:53] <Laurenceb_> theres lots of aprs there
[16:54] <arko> whats the predicted path?
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/166345_trj001.gif
[16:54] <arko> :( not near me.. ok
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> it is
[16:55] <LeoBodnar> if you move
[16:55] <fsphil> not near much
[16:55] <arko> lol
[16:55] <arko> eh, at least there are better chances here than northern ireland :P
[16:56] <db_g6gzh> BTW LeoBodnar I decoded some of the 434.5 FM APRS before I needed to use the radio for tracking Armstrong http://paste.debian.net/107998/
[16:57] <db_g6gzh> the later stuff is back on 144.8
[16:57] Action: fsphil looks over at his radio on 434.500. the sound of static echos across the room. a single tear drops
[16:57] <arko> http://www.perfectionpending.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cat-crying.gif
[16:58] <fsphil> http://www.popkitten.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sad-Cat-1.jpg
[16:59] <fsphil> And so my watch continues
[16:59] <fsphil> or I could just launch one of my own
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> oh yes db_g6gzh I have seen you picking the ISM APRS up! i have also figured you needed RX elsewhere when it stopped :D
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[17:01] <db_g6gzh> Yes, there are never enough radios 8-)
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> 4 hours to sunrise
[17:02] <arko> fsphil: https://i.imgflip.com/a14k0.jpg
[17:04] <LeoBodnar> lol cuteness attack
[17:05] <fsphil> https://i.imgflip.com/a14m3.jpg
[17:05] <arko> hahahaha
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/3gX9OrE.jpg
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> *trolld*
[17:07] <SA6BSS> fsphil: best in a long time!! :)
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[17:09] <LeoBodnar> short interruption in APRS updates while i am driving home
[17:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> SA6BSS: Gokväll!
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[17:28] <Boelle_DK> Q... for this boat project... i have been thinking about the 300mw NTX module... they are on 144mhz thou......
[17:29] <Boelle_DK> does the freq matter much tracking wise... lets say if it was a baloon?
[17:30] <Boelle_DK> the alternative are RFM22 modules... which you would say are end of life, but you can get hold of them if you have the right connections.
[17:30] <aadamson> there are 69 modules as well, they just replaced the technology with newer versions
[17:30] <Boelle_DK> i work on the OpenTRV project and we might order 1000 unit later on this year
[17:31] <Boelle_DK> yep know about the 69 version....
[17:31] <aadamson> in the air, you can only tx on ISM back in those countries that won't allow airborne ham radio, and that's limited to 10mW
[17:31] <aadamson> on the ground more power is better, assuming you have battery power for it
[17:31] <aadamson> as you don't have the ERP that you'd have in the air
[17:31] <Boelle_DK> yep just poking my head on what to do
[17:32] <aadamson> higher in frequency more line of sight
[17:32] <aadamson> how far is this think going to be away from land?
[17:32] <aadamson> a 1/4 wave at sea level is going to be really *iffy* unless you have *high/tall* RX/control sites
[17:33] <Boelle_DK> an carefull estimate is 100 meters initial... then going to 500 meters... and...
[17:33] <aadamson> and I doubt you'll have the size or weight ability to handle much more than a 1/4 wave wire
[17:33] <aadamson> off the shore?
[17:33] <aadamson> .5km?
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[17:33] <Boelle_DK> i visited one of those online calc's that can tell you how far to horizon given how high up you are
[17:33] <jededu> ping upu
[17:34] <aadamson> if you are only talking that distance, I doubt you'll have much issue with radio then
[17:34] <Boelle_DK> with a 2 meter mast on boat it should give 5km of sight
[17:34] <aadamson> more issue with be wave action due to the shore
[17:34] <aadamson> How big of a vessel are we talking here... a 2 meter mast is pretty large I would think? (course I'm thikning probably too small)
[17:35] <Boelle_DK> yep... one guy at the hackspace said that the mast might tilt a bit in strong wind and hence point the omni down towards the water
[17:35] <Boelle_DK> hold on... have a link showing a pic of it
[17:35] <Boelle_DK> but about 1½-2 meters long
[17:36] <aadamson> ah, ok, that's much larger than I thought
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[17:36] <Boelle_DK> http://www.microtransat.org/2012_joker_boat.php
[17:36] <aadamson> probably going to need to check with your coast guard, etc to see if there are restrictions on water vessels before they are considered Licensable/or needing a licesne :)
[17:36] <Boelle_DK> approx that
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[17:37] <Boelle_DK> coast guard? Denmark..... looool, dont even think we have that :-D
[17:38] <aadamson> You might also want to check with your RC community and see if there are country requirements for autonomous vessels... I varies all over the map by country
[17:38] <Boelle_DK> the end goal is to have a kind of drone boat, its going to be used for kind of research... messureing water quality
[17:38] <aadamson> yeah I saw the earlier dialog, just hadn't seen size mentioned
[17:39] <aadamson> I guess it's going to need solar to maintain battery performance?
[17:39] <Boelle_DK> yep... that is my plan
[17:39] <aadamson> unless you have some new technolgy for converting sea water into power - I'm sure there is a market for that if you do :).
[17:39] <Boelle_DK> fit panels on the deck where its possible
[17:40] <Boelle_DK> today i just managed to get the GPS module done...
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[17:40] <aadamson> then you'll need a *RTH* function for when weather gets bad
[17:40] <Boelle_DK> central CPU is a raspberry pi... so far...
[17:40] <aadamson> and you'll need a way to 4 times a day send weather condition forecasts to it etc :)
[17:40] <Boelle_DK> yep.... excatly
[17:40] <Boelle_DK> 2 ways coms
[17:41] <aadamson> sounds like you'll have a fun project there... :)... best of luck on it!
[17:41] <Boelle_DK> and we also thought on using the space near us service... thou it will look damm odd
[17:41] <Boelle_DK> baloon 2 meters up all the time over water
[17:42] <aadamson> they have the ability to assign a different icon to objects - ISS, cars, balloons, aircraft, etc
[17:42] <Boelle_DK> yep... and should be easy enough to find a freeware icon for a boat
[17:42] <aadamson> the #habhub channel is the place to see what options might exist there
[17:43] <Boelle_DK> but does the tracking server support sending back data ie messurements?
[17:43] <mattbrejza> you could use the habitat servers as a backend and write your own map to sit on top
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[17:44] <mattbrejza> eg http://track.poseidon.sgsphysics.co.uk/
[17:44] <Boelle_DK> but again.... radio is the first part in the link
[17:44] <Boelle_DK> asked a few times about the RFM22.... is that powerfull enough... ? or would NTX be a better choice?
[17:44] <aadamson> you can either get data in a query/dump, or you can get record at a time if you know how
[17:45] <Boelle_DK> we have radio amatours with the right license on the project
[17:45] <mattbrejza> well work out what frequency you can use first and at what power then look for some electronics to do it
[17:45] <SA6BSS> Reb-SM3ULC: god afton
[17:45] <Boelle_DK> so we could fit more powerfull amps than the boat can float with
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> i don't think the general attitude was that it's a good idea
[17:46] <LeoBodnar> using snus
[17:47] <Boelle_DK> habitat ? not snus...
[17:47] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: why are you giving false hopes?
[17:47] <Boelle_DK> but yes i see the link
[17:48] <mattbrejza> there is 250mW avaliable at 35MHz for databuoys
[17:48] <mikestir> <Boelle_DK> asked a few times about the RFM22.... is that powerfull enough... ? or would NTX be a better choice? <-- you've already been told that the RFM22 is more powerful than the NTX2, and also that power is only a tiny piece of the puzzle
[17:49] <mattbrejza> HF is more likely to travel better along the sea
[17:49] <Boelle_DK> mikestir: have loads of stuff to remember on this.... but thanks for the reminder :-D
[17:50] <Boelle_DK> but yes one think is to have the power... does not help if you cant get rid of it in the air
[17:50] <Boelle_DK> :-/
[17:50] <LeoBodnar> Boelle_DK: you have exhausted us last year with your autonomous balloon tracking project, is it a relapse?
[17:51] <Boelle_DK> no
[17:51] <Boelle_DK> total different project
[17:51] <Boelle_DK> and by no means feel forced to respond to what i write :-P
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> my screen weeps
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> all the time talking to you has been wasted
[17:52] <aadamson> I'm going for popcorn - seeing as this has been round the patch once prior...
[17:52] <LeoBodnar> what's different this time?
[17:53] <Boelle_DK> in layman terms building a floating baloon :-P
[17:54] <mikestir> except you're not - you're building a boat which is a totally different beast in every respect
[17:54] <Boelle_DK> local uni /hackerspace wants to build a big RC boat that can be used to messure water quality etc
[17:54] <LeoBodnar> does it work?
[17:54] <arko> is floating a balloon even possible?
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> where in the project timeline are you?
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> do you have a working sampling platform?
[17:55] <Boelle_DK> LeoBodnar: it floats.. servos are fitted... as we only have one weekly meet its a slow one
[17:55] <Boelle_DK> next week its going to be tested with a normal RC
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> so it's a floating shell with a few RC servos?
[17:55] <mattbrejza> just put iridium on it and be done with it :)
[17:56] <LeoBodnar> whe the heck it is important what Radiometrix module to use then?
[17:56] <Boelle_DK> once we know it works that far next step is fitting GPS, a Pi and tadaaa... radio
[17:56] <mattbrejza> if you want radio then get out in some boats and do some tests, unless you can find any decent papers about over water comms
[17:56] <mattbrejza> as we dont have the answers :)
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[17:57] <daveake> Pi seems a poor choice for something with limited power
[17:58] <mattbrejza> s/for something with limited power//
[17:58] <mattbrejza> ;)
[17:58] <daveake> hah
[17:58] <qyx_> :>
[17:58] <LeoBodnar> so you don't have anything yet. Most important project decision atm is RFM22 or NTX2
[17:58] <mattbrejza> i remember when you advised against using a pi :P (perhaps exception for ssdv)
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> what's your power budget? what is average amount of solar radiation in the area you are sailing? what are the requirements for the steering system?
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> you could be off by a factor of x100
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> but yeah use NTX2 when it comes to it
[18:00] <Boelle_DK> well the pi is not a must... just the initial idea...
[18:01] <mattbrejza> any reason why not to use satellite comms modules?
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> or foghorns
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> or sonars
[18:02] <Boelle_DK> subscription fees mainly
[18:02] <Boelle_DK> and you need loads of power to transmit
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> or get a good psychic
[18:02] <aadamson> ah, come on vlf would be more fun
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> so how much power do you have available now for comms?
[18:03] <Boelle_DK> ie battery power or transmit power?
[18:03] <Boelle_DK> battery wise....
[18:03] <Boelle_DK> checking
[18:04] <mattbrejza> but is the price of satcoms really signicant if you look at all the other costs?
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> are you charging batteries or they are primaries?
[18:04] <Boelle_DK> 2-3 max 2200 mah lipo packs
[18:04] <mattbrejza> especially as you said a uni is involved
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> uni might manage to get it for free
[18:04] <Boelle_DK> the uni handed us the project to get it done cheap
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> Boelle_DK: power != energy
[18:05] <Boelle_DK> charging via solar... no engine to do it
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> how much power do you have available, not energy stored
[18:06] <Boelle_DK> ohh in that case.... 10mw as that is what RFM22 has
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> The rfm22 emits 10mW
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> it does not use that
[18:07] <Boelle_DK> doog
[18:07] <Boelle_DK> dooh
[18:07] <SA6BSS> the rfm22 can do 100mW
[18:07] <Boelle_DK> of course
[18:08] <daveake> still irrelevant as the question was about how much power is available from the batteries
[18:08] <Boelle_DK> battery can do 4 amps easy... not sure on the spec
[18:08] <arko> ....
[18:08] <daveake> still wrong answer
[18:09] <qyx_> "and the model A can use as little as 500mA with no peripherals attached"
[18:09] <qyx_> which is 2.5W just for the pi
[18:09] <daveake> WRONG
[18:09] <mattbrejza> other things we have yet to discuss is how much data do you want to send, what sort of radio duty cycle etc
[18:09] <SA6BSS> and for the record rfm22b is 100mW'
[18:09] <Boelle_DK> checking the specs on the C rating
[18:09] <daveake> How about some actual answers to questions here?
[18:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> Boelle_DK: maybe have passed through info.. how big of a bouey?
[18:09] <daveake> Correct ones too
[18:09] <Boelle_DK> feel free to make fun of me .-D
[18:10] <qyx_> daveake: i am just calculating if his batteries are enough for the pi
[18:10] <daveake> Yes and you're wrong
[18:10] <daveake> Model A runs on approx 115mA
[18:10] <Boelle_DK> Reb-SM3ULC: not a bouey... boat
[18:10] <qyx_> daveake: ok, this is from official site as i do not own one
[18:10] <daveake> Anyway, the question about power budget was to do with the solar cells
[18:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> Boelle_DK: sri, ok, how big boat then.. :D
[18:11] <daveake> I shall withdraw now
[18:11] <daveake> it's for the best
[18:11] <Boelle_DK> http://www.microtransat.org/2012_joker_boat.php
[18:11] <qyx_> and the power budget is constrained by battery pack and statistics
[18:11] <qyx_> he can have kW's of cells if he is not able to store the energy
[18:12] <aadamson> daveake, I'll share my popcorn with you... :)
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[18:14] <arko> Boelle_DK: what major?
[18:14] <arko> at uni
[18:14] <daveake> qyx_, Indeed. I fear though that the differences between average power available, max power available, stored energy etc are completely lost here
[18:14] <Boelle_DK> not a student
[18:14] <daveake> When the only answer was to do with radio o/p power
[18:15] <qyx_> nah, seems so
[18:15] <Boelle_DK> found battery spec
[18:15] <Boelle_DK> 1300mah
[18:15] <Boelle_DK> can do 20C
[18:15] <arko> ................................................
[18:15] <Boelle_DK> if doing half that 13A
[18:15] <Boelle_DK> at 7.2V
[18:16] <arko> there you go
[18:16] <qyx_> ok, i see
[18:20] <arko> now multiply..
[18:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> It's weird how common.. Read an article in swedish newspaper "ny teknik" about solar power and battery storaage. "Installed solar capacity 20 kW". "Delivers 6.1 kW in the middle of the day" .....
[18:21] <amell> liking the uk-us robot sailing boat
[18:21] <amell> Leobodnars next project? sailing a pico boat round the world?
[18:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> amell: url?
[18:21] <amell> http://www.microtransat.org/2012_joker_boat.php
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[18:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> Other team had more info. "Arduino Mega Pro 2560t." etc
[18:28] <Boelle_DK> but yes i have been thinking arduino platform....
[18:29] <Boelle_DK> a bit rough said but but this could be seen as a drone...
[18:29] <Boelle_DK> sort of
[18:29] <mattbrejza> is this thing going to have a propeller?
[18:29] <mattbrejza> so charge the battery, drop it in the sea, it drives around for a few days and comes back home once its done?
[18:30] <mattbrejza> or long term solar powered thing?
[18:30] <mattbrejza> kinda makes a big difference
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[18:30] <Boelle_DK> nope sail only
[18:31] <Boelle_DK> long term out at sea
[18:31] <Boelle_DK> going round the island i live on
[18:31] <mattbrejza> so its not actually that far out at sea?
[18:31] <mattbrejza> an atenna on a tall mask probably has LOS?
[18:31] <Boelle_DK> https://www.google.dk/maps/@55.5539411,10.4537633,9z
[18:32] <Boelle_DK> that is where i live... in fact the city odense
[18:32] <Boelle_DK> i think the aim is 500 meters out... maybe 1km at most
[18:33] <mattbrejza> oh right
[18:33] <mattbrejza> somewhat easier then
[18:33] <Boelle_DK> and a side project to this is to relive my auto tracker project... but we have one to code python script
[18:33] <Boelle_DK> and the plan is to set some of these trackers on the coast line
[18:33] <mattbrejza> bigger issue is how much power the steering will take and how much the panels will give you
[18:33] <mattbrejza> meh just use aprs
[18:33] <Boelle_DK> and its here my thought on using the habitat servers came in
[18:33] <Chetic> how do I get fldigi to interpret my position?
[18:34] <Chetic> I'm sending $$callsign,0,0,0,0*crc
[18:34] <Chetic> (with correct crc)
[18:34] <Boelle_DK> mattbrejza: yes one of the radio amatours said that
[18:34] <Boelle_DK> but is it reliable...
[18:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> Boelle_DK: aah, so you have a lot of aprs trackers around
[18:35] <mattbrejza> also fyi iridium would probably be cheaper than setting up auto rotator things everywhere
[18:35] <jededu> ping upu
[18:35] <Boelle_DK> Reb-SM3ULC: dont know if you can call it lots.. but we might build a few and move them
[18:36] <Boelle_DK> once set up tell it to track the boat and drive home
[18:36] <mattbrejza> or you could use the thing they use to track boats when near land
[18:36] <mattbrejza> no idea what it is
[18:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> Boelle_DK: well, just check leos balloons being tracked with "ease"
[18:36] <mattbrejza> some vhf thing probs
[18:36] <Boelle_DK> i saw an APRS map the other day...
[18:37] <Boelle_DK> problems is that the reapeters are sometime turned off
[18:37] <mattbrejza> well there are lots it seems
[18:37] <Boelle_DK> and i only saw 2 of them
[18:37] <Boelle_DK> but will have to recheck it
[18:37] <mattbrejza> just go down to the coast with a transmitter and see how you do
[18:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> mm "LIFEGUARD 004 · boat" doing 244 km/h over land... :)
[18:38] <Boelle_DK> now lets say we make the thing transmit APRS.... and now i ask purely as i dont know much... but does the habitat servers pull APRS data?
[18:39] <Boelle_DK> or how does it work?
[18:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> Boelle_DK: an pri+sdr-dongle + some networked thingy, 3g-modem etc and you have yourself a nice tracker
[18:39] <Boelle_DK> Reb-SM3ULC: that was the plan for those tracker staions... try to make it fit so it can be on a tripod... or something like it
[18:40] <Boelle_DK> or a weather proof box and a yagii on a pan/tilt thingy on a tripod
[18:40] <Boelle_DK> just have to move then now and then
[18:40] <Boelle_DK> as teh boat makes its way
[18:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> right
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[18:46] <Boelle_DK> but yes APRS is an option also...
[18:46] <Boelle_DK> we just need to make sure there is a repeater within reach all the time
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[19:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> B62 sending packets again?
[19:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> (in reach....)
[19:00] <jcoxon> looks like it
[19:01] <jcoxon> hooray for random aprs igates!
[19:01] <daveake> excellent
[19:06] <mfa298> hrmmm why did I just read the last 90 mins of scrollback
[19:06] Action: mfa298 isn't getting that time back :(
[19:07] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I'd guess you're thinking of AIS (< mattbrejza> or you could use the thing they use to track boats when near land)
[19:10] <LeoBodnar> i think AIS is now received from satellites too
[19:11] <Boelle_DK> APRS Q.... so correct me if wrong... but an Ras Pi with a RFM22 could work as an Igate? i could make a few of those and place them near windows
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[19:12] <mfa298> downside is I think you'de need a marnine radio license for it and it the vessel may need to be manned
[19:12] <Boelle_DK> at home....
[19:12] <Boelle_DK> not on the boat project
[19:12] <mfa298> that was related to AIS not APRS
[19:12] <Boelle_DK> ahh
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> interesting http://www.orbcomm.com/uploads/files/STM3-2.pdf
[19:13] <mfa298> I'm not sure you can use the RFM22 for APRS, but it has it's own packetised modes which might work better for your needs - but you'de then need to make the tracking stations
[19:14] <Boelle_DK> it was purely a thought... build a compact Igate / Repater and place them near the windows at home.... to help out with APRS balloons
[19:14] <Boelle_DK> call it a brainfart :-D
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[19:36] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[19:41] <Laurenceb> sunrise in 1 hour at B-62
[19:41] <DL7AD> already?
[19:41] <DL7AD> the sun haven't set here in germany
[19:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> it's cathing up
[19:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Reb-SM3ULC does it even set at your place Reb?
[19:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: it does, live south of polar circle :)
[19:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> But SM3 is pretty high up or?
[19:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> pse don't ask about polar bears on the street
[19:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> right SM3 is a long region.. and also.. i should change now....
[19:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> i've moved...
[19:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> just used to hearing 6 and 7 here.
[19:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> your closer to sm1 now right?
[19:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://www.sm3liv.se/images/d_karta.gif
[19:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> so, yes
[19:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah nice map.
[19:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so no sm9, special call?
[19:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh and 8
[20:01] Nick change: Reb-SM3ULC -> Reb-SM0ULC
[20:01] <Reb-SM0ULC> there
[20:01] <Reb-SM0ULC> " Cannot change nickname while banned on channel" wtf...
[20:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LOL
[20:06] <SA6BSS> Hi Brian
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[20:07] <SA6BSS> You allways get so god rx, I wonder what radio you using??
[20:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Tjena Mikael
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[20:08] <SA6BSS> Tjaaa
[20:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> for hab i use the older ic910
[20:09] <SA6BSS> oki, I look that radio up... tnx
[20:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but i think the antenna is the major part of it, its a comet gp9n
[20:10] <Laurenceb> http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/xkeyscorerules100.txt
[20:10] <Laurenceb> lolling
[20:10] <Laurenceb> $TAILS_terms=word('tails' or 'Amnesiac Incognito Live System') and word('linux'
[20:10] <Laurenceb> or ' USB ' or ' CD ' or 'secure desktop' or ' IRC '
[20:10] <Laurenceb> uh oh
[20:11] <SA6BSS> OZ1SKY_Brian: 433 / 11.90 dBi wohoo
[20:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it has a good flat gain, but for overhead passes its not as good as a 1/4wave
[20:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but they seldome fly overhead here, so the flat gain is to prefer
[20:12] <SA6BSS> yep, overheds are rare!
[20:12] <SA6BSS> *heads
[20:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i can think of two
[20:13] <Reb-SM0ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: whe that happens one can take a coord and haul it out the window while passing over.. ;)
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[20:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe yeah, but it does still work, but signals are not very high
[20:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it seems to preform best from 0-10deg
[20:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> with a few loops higher up, but at lower gain
[20:15] <SA6BSS> and now I saw the price tag on that antenn, arghh
[20:15] <SA6BSS> :)
[20:16] <Reb-SM0ULC> ok ok, now i understand why sk5um did so good when balloon passed by.. HAAT 390 m
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[20:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SA6BSS diamond makes a copy of it, works well, but dont seems as strong. i had one blow down, so i got the comet to replace it.
[20:20] <Reb-SM0ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: right, thought of buying one of those
[20:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> like the x510 swries
[20:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> series
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[20:28] <Reb-SM0ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: one of the shorter versions..
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[20:36] <Laurenceb> is there any log from B-62?
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[20:44] <craag> Willdude123: Saw you popped into #g3kmi
[20:44] <craag> We were all at the pub
[20:47] <Reb-SM0ULC> Laurenceb: position history you mean?
[20:47] Action: Reb-SM0ULC awating sunrise for b62
[20:48] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:48] <Laurenceb> Reb-SM0ULC: just happened
[20:48] <Laurenceb> solar: 0.02
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[20:51] <LeoBodnar> log is coming soon
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:54] <Reb-SM0ULC> mm ,Abakan is one city with a lot of HAMs for sure
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[20:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[20:59] <LeoBodnar> gn
[21:02] <Laurenceb> i wonder if you could use msp430 with fram
[21:03] <Laurenceb> or 2v eeprom...
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[21:08] <Laurenceb> aha http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00277537.pdf
[21:08] <Laurenceb> 1.65v eeprom
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[21:13] <LeoBodnar> why do you need 1.65v eeprom?
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[21:17] <Laurenceb> so it can store a log running at 1.8v, then keep it if it loses power overnight
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> i can use flash self-write but RAM stores it pretty well
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[21:33] <Willdude123> craag: was I not supposed to?
[21:34] <craag> Willdude123: You're perfectly welcome, I was just explaining why none of us replied.
[21:34] <Willdude123> OK cool
[21:34] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Flerb
[21:35] <Flerb> I don't particularly like either of my usernames, its just I picked the former at the age of 9/10
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[21:47] <Ian_> Identity crisis . . . already?
[21:47] <alain> Hi
[21:48] <alain> B-62 is a joke?
[21:48] <amell> no joke
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> muahahaha
[21:49] <amell> you are seeing history unfold in front of your eyes
[21:49] <amell> leave your offering for Leobodnar at the altar before you leave
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[21:49] <alain> Fake Digipeaters
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> like what?
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[21:52] <amell> [APRS62 via WIDE2-1,qAS,RA0WKV]
[21:52] <amell> looks good to me
[21:53] <alain> Dl7ad and 2e0toy are not russian digipeaters
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> 2E0TOY is my callsign
[21:53] <alain> They are reporting positions
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> but well spotted
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> they do indeed
[21:54] <DL7AD> its mine :P
[21:55] <amell> anyone got new hysplit?
[21:55] <alain> Ra0wkv havent any history
[21:55] <LeoBodnar> it's also a fake
[21:55] <LeoBodnar> the whole thing is a setup
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[21:55] <amell> alain: unbeliever
[21:56] <LeoBodnar> did you really think a party balloon can fly half-way around the world at 12km altitude?!
[21:56] <craag> I knew it!!
[21:56] <craag> :P
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> i'll prove that it's fake
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> i can draw a loop over Kazakhstan on http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=B-62
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[21:57] <LeoBodnar> come back tomorrow morning and see
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[21:59] <LeoBodnar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajresults.pl?jobidno=171275
[22:00] <amell> oh dear, not brilliant for coverage.
[22:01] <amell> anything beyond 3 days?
[22:02] <amell> arko is waiting for you
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[22:03] <alain> Report own positions is not fun
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> i think it is
[22:04] <Flerb> LeoBodnar: could've got creative and drawn some stuff :-)
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> i am going to make a loop over Kazakhstan
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> i am bored
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> alain, sorry i am having you on
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> i have played back a recording sent by a guy in Kazakhstan with FM radio but no APRS TNC
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> since i have played it back on my PC it got uploaded with my callsign 2E0TOY
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[22:08] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: do it, but with AIS transponders on ships on the real network!! :P
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> and it was also sever hours late
[22:08] <Flerb> LeoBodnar: won't you get in trouble?
[22:08] <Laurenceb> does the mppt turn on at 0.45v or something?
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:09] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> for what Flerb ?
[22:09] <Flerb> False data
[22:09] <Laurenceb> was looking at the voltage graph
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> false data?
[22:09] Action: amell chuckles
[22:09] <Flerb> Oh you said you were drawing a loop
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> i am
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> just you wait
[22:10] <Maxell> lolol
[22:10] <arko> haha
[22:11] <amell> it is obvious there is going to be a loop because of the dates on positions, and the log data is still being received to fill in the gap
[22:11] <Maxell> Why is APRS coverage so bad over Russia?
[22:11] <Maxell> Sattelite phone payload pls
[22:11] <Maxell> ISS APRS !!11
[22:11] <amell> I dont know. I am trying to find out if there is igate in Irkutsk
[22:11] <Maxell> omg so much coverage
[22:12] Action: Flerb starts a theory that Leo has never actually flown a hab and fakes all his data
[22:12] <Flerb> ;-)
[22:12] <Laurenceb> Flerb: its on ISM too
[22:12] <Maxell> But how does he do the domex on my screen too? :(
[22:12] <Maxell> planted remote TX near all listeners?
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> i have a remotely controlled transmitter implanted near you Maxell
[22:12] <LZ1DEV> plot twist
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> your coordinates were on the map so it wasn't difficult
[22:13] <Flerb> Laurenceb: ah but ISM is all controlled by NASA and the government and they obviously fake those things
[22:13] <Maxell> True :P
[22:13] <Laurenceb> its broadcast from the moon
[22:13] <Flerb> (Flat earther logic)
[22:13] <amell> has anyone actually spoken to the guy at RA0WKV - he may know someone further along the route to start up igate.
[22:13] <Maxell> his habs are not habs they are sats :P
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[22:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.activistpost.com/2012/04/david-ickes-moon-matrix-theory.html
[22:13] <Maxell> More like C-62 (cubesat)
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> transmission power is controlled to provide the appearance of weaker/stronger signals as it "passes" near
[22:14] <Laurenceb> ^it uses the moon matrix
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> lol, ask DL7AD [23:13] <amell> has anyone actually spoken to the guy at RA0WKV - he may know someone further along the route to start up igate.
[22:15] <Maxell> Beaconing out packets on the ISS freq would be nice tho
[22:15] <Flerb> "I would launch my own hab to prove the earth is flat but the government are controlling all the helium and the CAA would have it shot down by men in black suits
[22:15] <Laurenceb> i met some men in black suits once
[22:15] <Laurenceb> it was pretty funny
[22:15] <Laurenceb> they were posing as american tourists
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> did they have thick Russian accent?
[22:16] <Laurenceb> i spotted the earpieces and the black helicopter
[22:16] <Laurenceb> and started to get worry
[22:16] <Laurenceb> *worried
[22:16] <Laurenceb> luckily Bill Clinton turned up and everything was fine
[22:16] <mfa298> wow, just noticed it's just over a year (by one day) of Leo's non rtty party balloons
[22:17] <Maxell> happy birthday
[22:17] <Laurenceb> but for about 2 minutes i was literally expecting alien invasion
[22:17] <Maxell> r.i.p. B-1
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> Oh, B-1
[22:18] <mfa298> I was skipping B-1 as I thought that was rtty and not a foil pico
[22:18] <qyx_> heh, b-1, it turned out that your naming convention is very well suited for these amounts
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> The clones are very impressive. I must be very proud.
[22:20] <Maxell> mfa298: you don't do rtty balloons?
[22:20] <amell> Did they ask 2K leo bodnar 1>3 2>74CH=KE H0@>2?
[22:20] <Maxell> qyx_: yes imagine what would have happend if it had been calles B-01 :)
[22:21] <Maxell> amell: "You leo bodnar bog air balls?"
[22:21] <Maxell> "U leo Bodnar moeras lucht ballen?"????????????????
[22:22] <Maxell> http://ackuna.com/badtranslator :)
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:24] <DL7AD> haha :D
[22:24] <DL7AD> this will make my day
[22:25] <DL7AD> From English: I will launch a balloon. => Back to English: I want a balloon.
[22:25] <Maxell> :P
[22:25] <amell> that is why i always test the reverse translation
[22:26] <DL7AD> 35 times later: Back to English: If going through the fire.
[22:27] <Maxell> "High Altitude Ballooning isn't an easy hobby!" ...35 translations later, Bing gives us: "Super-Notre-Dame"
[22:28] <DL7AD> :D
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> hahaha
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> Can be used as a verb?
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> *it
[22:29] <Maxell> "Height of the ball is just a hobby!" etc
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[22:29] <LeoBodnar> useful for writing a CV
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[22:29] <Maxell> The height of the ball is just a hobby. --> ئê/„Y1}--> High ball hobby.
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:29] <Maxell> good night
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[22:31] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: and you want to tell me everytime, computer-translations should be good :P
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[22:32] <LeoBodnar> by using it you are improving it
[22:32] <DL7AD> hope so
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> because google scans your emails and if people are telling you that translation is crap it automatically improves the algorithm
[22:33] <arko> man 12km float is beautiful
[22:33] <arko> look at that altitude profile
[22:33] <DL7AD> like my scale
[22:34] <LeoBodnar> do you believe it's real?
[22:34] <amell> 8m/sec trajectory correction burn for ISEE3 planned for next tuesday.
[22:34] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar is probably the first one doing a full circle over kazakhstan. who will be the next one?
[22:35] <amell> DL7AD: LeoBodnar&
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> I think a few rockets did that before me
[22:35] <DL7AD> leo already did
[22:35] <amell> so he will do it again
[22:35] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130501204015/alienfilm/images/e/e8/I_Want_to_Believe.png
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> I shall believe
[22:36] <amell> only 8m/sec correction burn is just incredible after 30 years out there.
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> *takes a pause for some Sheryl Crow listening
[22:36] <arko> now im believer!
[22:37] <arko> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts
[22:37] <DL7AD> http://imgur.com/jz6RqOI
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[22:38] <arko> still amazes me how well audio recording live was back that
[22:38] <KF7FER> Here is an amusing quote I read today "Only 1 watt output on VHF? That might be OK in a balloon where your antenna is many feet aloft."
[22:38] <KF7FER> This is in reference to the AVRT5
[22:39] <DL7AD> rofl
[22:39] <KF7FER> only in the USA (hangs head in shame)
[22:40] <DL7AD> we need an FT-101 ^^
[22:41] <KF7FER> with really large solar panels to charge the batteries?
[22:41] <DL7AD> KF7FER: you haven't been on the chat at the right moment :D
[22:41] <Herman-PB0AHX> the monkees old good muziek
[22:41] <craag> yeah, couple of car batteries and an inverter should do it, right?
[22:42] <KF7FER> DL7AD: I did see a pic of a payload that looked a bit...heavy
[22:42] <LeoBodnar> roll cage protection for valves
[22:42] <KF7FER> and saw that one guy get kicked off maybe?
[22:42] <KF7FER> (I try and read the scrollback)
[22:42] <DL7AD> KF7FER: one week ago there was a guy here on the chat, who really wanted to launch that rig
[22:43] <craag> Yeah bad language
[22:43] <craag> Didn't react well to being told it was a bad idea
[22:43] <KF7FER> right. had some nick with 'usa' in it
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[22:43] <KF7FER> some troll right?
[22:44] <DL7AD> hm... yep could be
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> AllAmercanHAM?
[22:44] <KF7FER> I thought it was funny until he got abusive... and LeoBodnar - yup, that's him!
[22:44] <KF7FER> figured it was someone just playing a joke
[22:44] <Laurenceb> my trollometer suggests troll
[22:46] <Laurenceb> how does the backlog work?
[22:46] <KF7FER> backlog?
[22:47] <KF7FER> well when I'm AFK I make sure my client is buffering any output and then when I come back I just read it. Is that what you mean?
[22:47] <Laurenceb> the APRS position log
[22:47] <KF7FER> often it's days
[22:47] <KF7FER> oops sorry
[22:49] <Boelle_DK> Q about the Ublox modules.... in lay man terms how is the i2c adress changed should it clash with another i2c device that is not changeable?
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> it's a historical position compressed into base-91 encoded text string and transmitted in comment field
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> the longer packets contain telemetry *and* backlog data http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M0XER-2
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> i then **decode** it
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> and ***upload*** to snus
[22:51] <Laurenceb> ok
[22:51] <Laurenceb> so is there a fixed length buffer?
[22:52] <Laurenceb> or a FIFO?
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> 5 day FIFO
[22:55] <LeoBodnar> or circular buffer if you want
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[23:00] <Laurenceb> circular buffer == length is fixed, FIFO == variable length ?
[23:00] <Laurenceb> maybe... maybe i got that wrong
[23:02] <LeoBodnar> most FIFOs have limited length
[23:02] <LZ1DEV> fifos are limited length
[23:02] <LZ1DEV> they get full once you reach it
[23:03] <Laurenceb> yeah, but they have an uppe rlimit only
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> it's FINO
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> as it never gets emptied
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> it gets read but not emptied
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> so it overflows by design
[23:06] <amell> on another subject, i have a sex problem
[23:06] <amell> two male pcb headers, any thoughts on how to patch them together without soldering female on?
[23:07] <LeoBodnar> patch leads?
[23:07] <KF7FER> a short female/female cable being too much?
[23:07] <LeoBodnar> flat IDC cable?
[23:07] <Laurenceb> 0.1" crimps and ribbon?
[23:07] <amell> dont have those
[23:08] <LeoBodnar> http://www.adafruit.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/10pinidccable_LRG.jpg
[23:08] <Boelle_DK> use a handjob :-D
[23:08] <amell> i suppose i could use croc clips.its just for a quick test
[23:09] <amell> i have a 5 pin IDC cable. shame the problem (FTDI header) is 6 pm
[23:09] <amell> pin
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[23:15] <LZ1DEV> amell: have you tried http://i.imgur.com/0dMXEGt.png ?
[23:16] <amell> i could. a croc on each end might hold it
[23:23] <arko> http://www.daylol.com/images/2012/August/21/5033e17aa09d2.jpg
[23:23] <Laurenceb> really bad way
[23:24] <Laurenceb> two 0.1" crimps soldered end to end
[23:25] <Laurenceb> but thats nasty :P
[23:29] <amell> lol. its fine.
[23:32] <LeoBodnar> we have almost 7 hours of continuous APRS reception! wow
[23:35] <arko> srsly
[23:35] <arko> really impressive
[23:35] <Laurenceb> does it loop through the blacklog or transmit one position at a time, interleaved
[23:35] <arko> doing donuts in russia
[23:36] <arko> leo just needs to add a dash cam :P
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[23:36] <Laurenceb> add a messagebox
[23:36] <Laurenceb> people can upload messages
[23:37] <LeoBodnar> it sends the contents of the backlog rpeatedly by adding it to normal position reports (not affecting them)
[23:38] <arko> woah really?
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[23:38] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:39] <Laurenceb> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/173794_trj001.gif
[23:39] <Laurenceb> heading north
[23:41] <Laurenceb> if it loops back itll be picked up on aprs again, veyr nice
[23:41] <Laurenceb> and theres aprs over alaska
[23:41] <arko> even if it doesnt make it here, i just hope it lives past 190hours
[23:41] <Maxell> RA0WKV doing some nice RXing
[23:42] <Laurenceb> unfortunatly theres no aprs at 190hours
[23:42] <Laurenceb> unless it loops back
[23:43] <amell> should contact RA0WKV, may be someone else east of him has part time aprs or can listen for you
[23:43] <Laurenceb> there is one repeater to the east
[23:46] <Laurenceb> at Bratsk
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 4 2014