highaltitude.log.20140629

[00:00] <Ian_> Dontcha just just love the slow boat bearing gifts?
[00:00] <mfa298> you could always replace the connectors on the SWR meters for something better (N would probably be the best option)
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[00:01] <Ian_> Times have changed astrobiologist. Hopefully not just the label . . . beyond 2m used to carry a stiff price penalty on SWL meters, but that was probably a long time ago.
[00:01] <Darkside> SWL meters? :P
[00:02] <Ian_> Ooops, SWR
[00:02] <Ian_> I guess that it's early in the day for you Darkside, my brain is preparing to shut down for the night. Lol
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[00:04] <mfa298> The meters I've got the 2/70 cost similar to the HF/2 meter I've got. Although I have found that a lot of the shack-in-a-box type radios often have internal swr for HF but not always for the higher bands.
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[00:04] <mfa298> looks like someones breaking freenode again
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[00:05] <Ian_> I'm a happy Icom IC-7000 shack-in-the-box owner - great turn of phrase by the way.
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[00:05] <Darkside> heh
[00:05] <Darkside> yeah, i have an IC-7000 too
[00:05] <Darkside> nice radio
[00:06] <Ian_> Never tried to get the onboard RTTY do anything though, it doesn't seem very convincing.
[00:06] <mfa298> I think the IC-7000 was still a bit too new so was a bit to pricy when I got my TS-2000
[00:06] <Darkside> Ian_: i think its mor of a gimmick
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[00:07] <Ian_> I went to the Donnington rally a few years ago and had resolved to buy one at Christmas but the rally deal was worth moving up the calendar slightly.
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[00:08] <Ian_> I think there are a few gimicks on there, the spectrum scope for example. I think that it just cheapens the ideal actually. Money better spent on improving on the performance. The S meter is a bit mean without the preamp in.
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[00:24] <Ian_> Is off to bed. Goodnight all.
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[01:06] Nick change: jarod- -> jarod
[01:16] <amell> has anyone uploaded to atmega328 using ftdi and arduino ide? stuck cant get it to upload
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[01:33] <aadamson> amell, does it have a bootloader on it?
[01:33] <aadamson> the atmega328 by default does not
[01:34] <aadamson> and you have to use an ISP programmer or another arduino to install the bootloader
[01:34] <amell> it does. been talking in another channel.
[01:34] <amell> turns out theres something wrong with my DTR line
[01:34] <aadamson> ah, then it *should work*
[01:34] <aadamson> ah that would do it
[01:34] <aadamson> you can trick it if you hit reset just right
[01:34] <amell> i have to hit reset at exactly the right time.
[01:34] <amell> yes. and got a program in
[01:34] <aadamson> even with a borked dtr
[01:34] <aadamson> yep
[01:34] <amell> no idea why dtr doesnt work.
[01:34] <amell> strange
[01:35] <aadamson> the joy ob usb serial adapter
[01:35] <aadamson> s
[01:35] <aadamson> can't even type tonight
[01:35] <aadamson> the joy of...
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[03:54] <jarod> http://alexander.n.se/in-english/saq-transmission/
[03:54] <jarod> 1. ALEXANDERSON DAY, JUNE 29TH, 2014
[03:54] <jarod> The annual transmission on "Alexanderson Day" with the Alexanderson alternator on VLF
[03:54] <jarod> 17.2 kHz will take place Sunday, June 29th, 2014 at 09:00 UTC (tuning up from about
[03:54] <jarod> 08:30 UTC) and will be repeated at 12:00 UTC (tuning up from about 11:30 UTC).
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[06:22] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[06:25] <SA6BSS> morning
[06:25] <arko> morning
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[07:07] <DL5SFI_Steffen> .
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[07:30] <malgar> DL7AD_: ping
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[07:52] <DL7AD_> malgar: pong
[07:53] <malgar> DL7AD_: I still have to understand well how has been the logistics of D5
[07:53] <malgar> weren't you at the launch site?
[07:53] <DL7AD_> nope
[07:54] <malgar> why? :)
[07:54] <DL7AD_> i did not have the money to travel and stay there (im a poor student and decided do come instead to the ukhas conference)
[07:55] <malgar> anyway we had a lot of fun receiving it :)
[07:55] <malgar> mmh ok
[07:55] <DL7AD_> :)
[07:55] <DL7AD_> a friend took my payload to friedrichshafen
[07:55] <malgar> did someone recover it?
[07:55] <malgar> after landing
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[08:01] <DL7AD_> malgar: yes they did
[08:01] <DL7AD_> have been in a tree
[08:01] <malgar> :)
[08:01] <DL7AD_> they got all the ppayloads down after two hours
[08:02] <DL7AD_> i wonder.... i czech republic i was told they cut down the tree for it (for another group of launchers)
[08:03] <malgar> :P
[08:04] <malgar> is there a picture of the balloon+payloads?
[08:04] <DL7AD_> and in the us the payload has been shot down :D
[08:04] <DL7AD_> not yet
[08:04] <DL7AD_> just the pictures on my webpage
[08:04] <malgar> ok
[08:04] <DL7AD_> www.dl7ad.de/balloons/D-5
[08:05] <DL7AD_> i will upload them as soon as i get them
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[08:41] <malgar> mclane_: do you plan a PYSY11?
[08:41] <malgar> when?
[08:43] <mclane_> hello malgar, yes we plan a PYSY11; but no concrete date known yet
[08:43] <malgar> summer?
[08:44] <malgar> I'm becoming addicted in this receiving thing :P
[08:44] <mclane_> see our website www.stratosphaere.net for details - in german
[08:44] <mclane_> maybe late summer
[08:45] <mclane_> I would like to do something new
[08:45] <malgar> ok
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[08:47] <PE2G> Morning mclane_ Have you been chasing D-5 yesterday?
[08:48] <mclane_> hello PE2G - no - just receiving with my chase equipment
[08:48] <PE2G> mclane_: I see. I understood that it was a difficult recovery
[08:49] <mclane_> the balloon has been launched by a german ham club
[08:50] <PE2G> Yes, I watched the video stream yesterday
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[08:58] <Herman-PB0AHX> GM to all
[09:00] <jarod> 17.2 kHz = Strong today :D (SAQ)
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[09:04] <gonzo_> a lot of local qrm on there for me. But can see it in the trace
[09:04] <gonzo_> I loe the way the motor slows under load of keying
[09:05] <jarod> 17.2 is clean here :P
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[09:05] <jarod> 11.950 is also very strong i can see :)
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[09:08] <gonzo_> it drifts low about 25hz on keyup. As a % of freq, that is worse than an ntx2 ! (Though only just)
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[10:56] <Babs> Morning all - i am compiling my transmit string using the snprintf function in arduino IDE. All appears to work well for inserting ints %d etc. until I try inserting floats using %f. Does the arduino IDE support the insertion of floats, or should i be casting it into another form? thanks
[10:58] <fsphil> not easily. its simpler to use dtostrf
[10:58] <Babs> Hey fsphil - nice animal pictures btw
[10:58] <fsphil> it can make a string from a float, and you'd then use that string in your sprintf()
[10:58] <Babs> Will look up dtostrf
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[11:12] <mikestir_> there is a float version of printf (and friends) in the avr c library. Does the arduino stuff not give you any way of selecting that?
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Floats are in general extremely expensive on AVR.
[11:12] <mattbrejza> just go into thte makefile and change the linker options right?
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> you may want to consider avoiding them
[11:12] <mikestir_> SpeedEvil: that would be my suggestion as well!
[11:13] <craag> You can just send as integers and put a scaling filter in the payload doc
[11:14] <Babs> good workaround craag
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[11:14] <Babs> i sort of think i should work out how to do it codewise too though maybe
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[11:16] <mattbrejza> although for one float operation every 8secs you can get away with it. Its not as if youll notice the say 100ms it takes then you have a _delay_ms(1000) between sentences
[11:16] <fsphil> I store them as fixed point values, same as the ubx packet has them
[11:16] <mattbrejza> and its nowhere near 100ms even
[11:16] <fsphil> then just / and % for fprint'ing
[11:16] <mattbrejza> *when
[11:16] <mikestir_> that's what I do as well
[11:17] <fsphil> taking care to get the + and - correct :)
[11:17] <fsphil> and padding
[11:17] <mikestir_> yes I know all about the - sign :)
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[11:18] <craag> mikestir_: Did you find the cause of that bug?
[11:18] <mikestir_> yes
[11:18] <craag> :)
[11:18] Nick change: Mike -> Guest48990
[11:18] <mikestir_> the code takes the abs value of the fractional part, but it leaves the integer part as a signed int for printing so that snprintf will generate the minus sign
[11:18] <mikestir_> that fails for the range -1 < n < 0 though
[11:19] <mikestir_> because the integer part is 0 even if the fractional is still -ve
[11:19] <craag> gotcha, thanks
[11:20] <Babs> fsphil - I'm actually taking them straight out as the ubx packet, then converting to float
[11:22] <mikestir_> craag: that bug was also present in the avr tracker I flew back in October, but it never went east of 1 degree west so it didn't get spotted
[11:24] <craag> mikestir_: heh. Well that float gave it a good +- test in three of four quadrants :)
[11:24] <craag> erm
[11:24] <craag> two
[11:24] <mikestir_> yeah it didn't cross the equator!
[11:24] <craag> no it did not
[11:25] <craag> what about the next one though ;)
[11:25] <mikestir_> the code actually includes a set of test vectors in all four quadrants, but embarrassingly there wasn't the coverage to pick that one up!
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[11:30] <fsphil> Babs: ah, might be simpler keeping it as it is in the ubx packet
[11:30] <astrobiologist> hello Leo. What's in the air right now? (I am once again passing the time in a café with my family and would like to test out the dodgy blackberry port of the tracker app)
[11:30] <fsphil> https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/swift.c#L311
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[11:31] <fsphil> one way of fprint'ing the fixed point numbers
[11:31] <Babs> fsphil - do you just then have the conversion done at the payload doc stage?
[11:31] <craag> astrobiologist: B-62, but unless you're Estonia, you're out of luck
[11:31] <fsphil> I print it in three parts Babs. The first bit is the sign (either "" or "-")
[11:32] <fsphil> then the parts before and after the imaginary decimal point
[11:32] <astrobiologist> thanks craag, mainly just testing if the blackberry port pulls the map up etc
[11:32] <LeoBodnar> astrobiologist we need you in Siberia
[11:32] <fsphil> which in the ubx values is 7 digits in
[11:32] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar I have a satphone
[11:32] <astrobiologist> but no plans to travel to siberia unfortunately
[11:33] <astrobiologist> otherwise we could have done some funky upload via the globalstar data service - I got the modem too
[11:33] <fsphil> extreme HAB tracking -- a new sport
[11:33] <Babs> fsphil - ie. you deconstruct the packet into three parts, and pop a . in at the right place?
[11:34] <Babs> and a "" or a - at the front?
[11:34] <fsphil> Babs: basically. the number is dddfffffff - I divide it by 10000000 to get the ddd part
[11:34] <fsphil> then mod it by 10000000 to get the fffffff part
[11:35] <fsphil> (mod is division, but returns the remainder)
[11:35] <astrobiologist> fsphil the new globalstar simplex modems are really tiny. would be a good hab payload in their own right - or yes, link to a handheld etc for uploads in the field
[11:35] <fsphil> I use abs() to ensure both those are never negative
[11:35] <fsphil> and I handle that separatly using the original value
[11:36] <Babs> ifsphil - is that a lot of code, or is it just a case of working it through and popping it a separate subroutine?
[11:36] <fsphil> you can see it at https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/swift.c#L311
[11:37] <fsphil> %s%li.%04li
[11:37] <fsphil> (lat < 0 ? "-" : ""), labs(lat) / 10000000, labs(lat) % 10000000 / 1000
[11:37] <fsphil> the %s is "-" if the value is negative, otherwise an empty string
[11:37] <Babs> perfect, thanks
[11:37] <Babs> you have the dark arts
[11:37] <fsphil> the first %li is the ddd part
[11:37] <fsphil> and the %04li (padding is important here!) is the xxxxxxx part divided by 1000
[11:38] <fsphil> I'm only printing it to four decimal places, the rest is a bit wasteful
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> Q: "Whats the difference in Bob Peases cubicle before and after a tornado?"
[11:39] <fsphil> There was never a before?
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> Correct answer: "Nothing" http://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/analogwire/archive/2014/06/18/remembering-bob-pease.aspx?DCMP=bobpease&HQS=sva-psp-isc-bobpease-awire-20140618-myti-en
[11:40] <LeoBodnar> Thre years...
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[11:41] <LeoBodnar> "Bobs cubicle seemed to be a magnet for the local Fire Marshall and on a semi-annual basis he would be forced to reduce the height of the stacks of paper and widen the pathway to his desk. "
[11:41] <fsphil> hah
[11:41] <LeoBodnar> "It appeared that Bob down-sized since the stack sizes became shorter. What none of us were aware of was that Bob had rented a local storage space nearby."
[11:41] <fsphil> My room is similar, but I don't have his talent of knowing where everything is
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> I am so glad they are actually trying to sort and preserve it
[11:44] <astrobiologist> stacks, baby, stacks. clearly this man's mind was working in Forth
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[11:49] <astrobiologist> I have downloaded the Estonia. map file but B-62 isn't actually that close to estonia?
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[11:54] <astrobiologist> ah ok the track has updated now
[11:55] <astrobiologist> what is the balloon I am seeing further south?
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[11:57] <astrobiologist> Ah that is B-62 too, I think the balloon symbol has got detached from the track in the porting
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[12:26] <astrobiologist> there are three TH-F7E handhelds on eBay at the moment if anybody is interested
[12:27] <astrobiologist> for comparison the brand-new cost is about £245
[12:28] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[12:30] <mikestir_> has anyone come across any technical specs for the funcube 1 transponder in terms of noise floor and output power?
[12:33] <gonzo_> almost certainly on the main site
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> do they have irc?
[12:38] <mikestir_> found some numbers. I'm just wondering how little power could be used and still be copyable on the downlink if using something wspr-like
[12:38] <mikestir_> as a possible channel for pico comms
[12:40] Nick change: Steve_G0TDJ_AFK -> Steve_G0TDJ
[12:40] <astrobiologist> has anybody ever considered downloading from a hab using a satellite? after all there are orbital repeaters
[12:40] <Steve_G0TDJ> Afternoon guys
[12:41] <mikestir_> astrobiologist: yes me just then :p
[12:41] <astrobiologist> super! even the iss?
[12:42] <mikestir_> I think aadamson tried to get some aprs packets through iss a couple of weeks ago and failed
[12:43] <mikestir_> I was thinking about some sort of custom data mode that could be detected on the downlink regardless of frequency
[12:43] <mikestir_> funcube's transponder is just a bent pipe after all
[12:45] <astrobiologist> define what you mean as "regardless of frequency"?
[12:46] <mikestir_> within the transponder bandwidth obviously
[12:46] <mikestir_> but without any need for accurate frequency control beyond that
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[12:48] Nick change: Maxell_ -> Maxell
[12:51] <mfa298> I know jcoxon had wanted to try sending aprs packets from a hab via the ISS, but you have the catch 22 of when it's over popular places you're competing with lots of ground stations with lots of power, There are places where that competition is less but they tend to also have a lack of ground receivers so if you get a packet through you won't know about it as it wont get igated back on earth.
[12:51] <fsphil> iss needs to be able to store packets for downlink
[12:51] <mikestir_> what about the use of linear transponders though mfa298. do you know if anyone has done any work on that?
[12:52] <mfa298> not sure anyone has tried that yet
[12:52] <astrobiologist> how about downloading through one of the satphone networks?
[12:53] <astrobiologist> iridium burst data has already been done of course
[12:53] <mfa298> daveake's used rockblock on some flights but I think that gets expensive quickly (and not that leightweight)
[12:53] <astrobiologist> how about the new globalstar simplex modems? tiny
[12:53] <mikestir_> I'd like to do some experiments through funcube with something like olivia, to see how little power can be used
[12:54] <mikestir_> might try it during the evening passes if anyone wants to listen
[12:54] <mfa298> you might need to choose your network carefully as I don't think any have global coverage
[12:54] <mikestir_> astrobiologist: I was just looking at those modems after you mentioned them earlier. they look nice but I notice they require type approval in the end product before use
[12:55] <astrobiologist> iridium does since it does satellite-to-satellite downlinks. globalstar is bent pipe, is pretty good simplex
[12:55] <astrobiologist> orbcomm is specialist machine-to-machine, so maybe best for us. don't know coverage
[12:56] <mikestir_> you can also use argos to send small packets of data, but I think that's pricey
[12:57] <astrobiologist> mikestir_ how hard would it be for one of you guys to get approval from globalstar? would they cut us any slack?
[12:57] <mikestir_> I doubt they'd talk to us
[12:57] Nick change: mikestir_ -> mikestir
[12:58] <mikestir> and it costs several thousand pounds to put a product through emc test, which they'd require before issuing a type approval
[12:59] <astrobiologist> well that's that then. but I am intrigued by the idea so might try to launder it through my old nasa colleagues for field site use etc... and if they pay for it...
[13:04] <mfa298> I've not really been convinced that sat modems have a great use in HAB, For the standard up down flights they're within range of receivers and we can manage sustained data rates that are similar to what you might manage on a satellite. And I'm not sure you could get any sat modem payload into the sort of weight limit for the Leo style floaters.
[13:05] <mfa298> the one place that have been useful for is control of the payload (which is how the rockblocks have been used with the Lohan flights)
[13:06] <mfa298> trying to get data through an amateur satellite could be an interesting challenge though, not sure it's necessarily useful but it's a cool experiment.
[13:07] <mikestir> it would be useful if you could do it within the power and weight constraints of a foil floater
[13:07] <mfa298> if the ISS started acting as an aprs igate then that would be useful
[13:08] <mikestir> what would be even better is if iss would act as a ukhas receiver!
[13:08] <astrobiologist> yeah what we mainly need it for is those outstanding floaters!!
[13:08] <astrobiologist> mikestr you could ask them - they have the rig already...
[13:09] <mikestir> it would be really good to solve this problem - I was disappointed I didn't get to track WG2 until the battery ran out, because I would have liked to see how good my estimates were
[13:09] <mfa298> linear transponders could be interetsing as I'm assuming our weak signals could still get through and be decodable as long as we have a suitable modulation that could be detected over anything else also being sent
[13:10] <astrobiologist> http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/teachingfromspace/students/ariss.html#.U7AQH2pMVxs
[13:11] <mikestir> funcube would be great because the uplink is right next to the usual ISM frequencies, so it wouldn't even require a dual-band tracker
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[13:12] <astrobiologist> ISS would need unattended operation at their end...
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[13:13] <mfa298> we'de need a new chase vehicle icon for snus.
[13:13] <mfa298> although I wonder how stable their internet is
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[13:16] <mfa298> hmmm, looks like ISS might actually have faster internet than me :|
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[13:20] <astrobiologist> seriously, we could write it up as a proposal - after all we need their rig the most in unpopulated areas where they won't be doing ham passes themselves anyway
[13:22] <astrobiologist> TDRS satellites have two steerable parabolic antennae and a bunch of spot beams on their chassis. one of the parabolics tracks ISS and the other hubble
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[13:23] <astrobiologist> so Ihave finally completed the download of the russia.map... whilst B-62 is still in range luckily :-)
[13:31] <mikestir> see I can hear the funcube telemetry now on my x30 and it's a very glancing pass
[13:33] <mikestir> and the current footprint includes all sorts of remote areas
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[13:34] <amell> what freq?
[13:34] <mikestir> 145.935 nominal, but usually a bit higher
[13:34] <mikestir> it's gone now
[13:38] <astrobiologist> B-62 near st petersburg now, is that right?
[13:42] <Maxell> More like Ivangorod, Russia
[13:45] <Maxell> astrobiologist: 133.1 km Southwest bearing 237° from Saint Petersburg, Sankt-Peterburg, Russia
[13:47] <astrobiologist> thanks maxell. I am testing out a blackberry port of mattbrejza's excellent android app. the map display is a bit shaky on the blackberry. but what you say makes perfect sense. can't see which end of the track is which (balloon icon seems to have got disconnected from track, no doubt an artifact of the porting)
[13:49] <mikestir> is an attended beacon covered by the uk ar licence without a nov?
[13:51] <mfa298> not sure, although I can't see it being any worse than wspr/aprs in that you're not directing comms at a specific group
[13:52] <mikestir> just thinking about programming one of my trackers into the funcube band and leaving it outside during a pass
[13:53] <mfa298> Stick a note in your logbook (if you keep one) about it being a low powered propogation test and I can't see anyone having an real problems with it.
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[13:58] <CMGMatt> Is the SPOT Gen3 is a good tracker to use? The Gen2 was a bad choice but I don't know about Gen3
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[14:07] <aadamson> just catching up. mikestir don't you have the same problem with trying to use a bend pipe transponder - e.g. it's outside the ism bands?
[14:07] <mikestir> presumbly not if you're over a country where airborne is permitted
[14:07] <mikestir> in the same way that geofenced aprs is ok
[14:07] <aadamson> yes that would be useful
[14:08] <mikestir> and ground-based testing would be ok
[14:08] <aadamson> *most of the packsats* also support the alias sgate, and if used, will relay between them if in earshot
[14:08] <aadamson> obviously an aprs usage mechanism
[14:09] <aadamson> probably with amsats at the moment is there are few and far between that support good bent pipe, most have just died or all the new cubesats dont' have the power budgets for bent pipe
[14:09] <aadamson> s/probably/problem
[14:10] <aadamson> ao-73 being the exception to the above, as it's new and a cube
[14:10] <mikestir> and there's a new funcube just gone up which also has a linear transponder
[14:10] <mikestir> not live yet
[14:11] <aadamson> yeah lo something?
[14:11] <mikestir> funcube 3. don't know what its amsat name will be
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[14:12] <aadamson> yeah, so that leave fo-29 (I think sun lit only), vo-52 (not sure if fully turned over for ham use), ao-73 and the new one
[14:12] <aadamson> oh, and good ole ao-7 :)
[14:12] <mikestir> so-50, but it's fm
[14:13] <aadamson> yeah I didn't count the FM birds
[14:13] <aadamson> ah it's cute-2
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[14:14] <aadamson> correction - cape-2
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[14:15] <aadamson> ah, but that's a packsat only
[14:15] <aadamson> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/satslist.htm
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[15:13] <astrobiologist> is B-62 silent now? or are the times on spacenear.us zulu?
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[15:15] <MattR> What would you recommend for recovering the payload when it's landed and when in flight
[15:15] <mfa298> MattR: do you mean in terms of tracking it's location ?
[15:16] <MattR> mfa298: Yes
[15:16] <mfa298> most people build radio trackers (arduino is probably the most popular) which can then transmit their location back to earth
[15:16] <MattR> So radio beacon or GPS?
[15:17] <mfa298> In the UK this is usually done on the 434MHz ISM band, in other places were Amateur Radio is allowed when airborne APRS is often used
[15:18] <MattR> I mean is it a beacon that sends a beep or GPS
[15:18] <mfa298> GPS gets a location, arduinio (or other microcontroller) processes that into something more useful and transmits back to earth via a radio signal
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[15:18] <LeoBodnar> astrobiologist UTC throughout
[15:18] <MattR> kk, do I need a radio licence for that?
[15:19] <astrobiologist> thanks LeoBodnar
[15:19] <mfa298> depends on where you are, but for the UK/ Europe there's an ISM allocation at 434MHz that doesn't require a license as long as you stick to the various limits (10mW max power which is more than enough)
[15:20] <mfa298> There's lots of good information (if you can find it) on the ukhas wiki http://ukhas.org.uk/
[15:20] <mfa298> are you coming into this with any existing Electronics / Radio / Computer programming experience ?
[15:21] <MattR> Basic, I mostly program software but not hardware and I'm getting a radio licence at some point this year.
[15:23] <mfa298> you shouldn't have too much of a problem then and there's usually people around here that are willing to help.
[15:23] <mfa298> Most microcontrollers have C compilers (or you can use assembly) so if you know your way around C you should be fine.
[15:26] <MattR> I guess that there would be a tutorial on YouTube or some place else to help with this?
[15:26] <mfa298> there's lots of generic arduino tutorials if you want to go that route
[15:27] <mfa298> one of the guides most people start with for hab payloads is http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:27] <mfa298> which takes you through connecting up a simple radio transmitter (NTX2b) and arduino and getting it to send some data
[15:28] <mfa298> you'll then need a suitable radio receiver to pick it up and software to decode it (dl-fldigi)
[15:28] <MattR> I was thinking of using an SDR on my laptop
[15:28] <mfa298> for testing (and potentially for an actual flight) you can get a cheap rtl-sdr dongle as the receiver
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[15:30] <mfa298> SDR receivers have been used by a few people and they certainly work reasonably well in a car. I'm not sure I'd want to go trudging around woodland with a laptop trying to find the payload after landing which is where some of the smaller real receivers can be useful.
[15:30] <MattR> know any good helium suppliers in the UK?
[15:30] <MattR> Yh
[15:31] <MattR> I'd probably use a radio for that
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[15:31] <mfa298> you'll need someone else for that - I've not launched a balloon myself - just helped out with others and tracked lots
[15:32] <mfa298> if you get a proper radio for HAB ensure it's one that supports SSB - most handhelds don't. The FT817 is very popular among habbers and if your going for the amateur radio foundation it's a great little radio to use as well.
[15:34] <MattR> I'd use my laptop in the car and the handheld when I got closer
[15:34] <MightyMik> doesn't have to be a transceiver... what about this? http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/4011.html
[15:35] <MightyMik> that one has IF tap and i/q out
[15:36] <astrobiologist> or TH-F7E
[15:38] <MattR> Very expensive
[15:38] <MightyMik> the F7E?
[15:39] <mfa298> MattR: if you've only got a cheap handheld radio it may not be suitable for balloons as they tend to be FM only and at least for the UK almost all flights need something able to do SSB
[15:39] <mfa298> for which the SDR will work or the F7E (and probably the DJ-X11T but I've not looked at specs in much detail)
[15:40] <MattR> The F7E is £200 on Amazon
[15:41] <mfa298> you may do better lookign at the 2nd hand market for radios
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[15:42] <astrobiologist> about £100 2nd hand for F7E, looked at it today on ebay
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[15:47] <astrobiologist> and F7E is partially waterproofed (can attest to this) so in wet field with F7E probably better than laptop with dongle :-)
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[15:52] <MattR> Sorry, my internet crashed :/
[15:53] <MattR> I was gonna say, would the http://www.amazon.co.uk/Baofeng-UVB6-400-470MHz-65-108MHz-Intercom-Black/dp/B00BX5Y41W/ref=pd_ybh_10 be any good?
[15:53] <mfa298> I think that's FM only so won't be much good for how HAB is done in the UK
[15:54] <mfa298> but baofeng seem to be good little (and cheap) handhelds for those starting in Amateur radio - should get into the local repeater no problem.
[15:55] <MattR> What does it need as FM doesn't work
[15:55] <mfa298> you need something that supports SSB (Single Sideband)
[15:55] <mattbrejza> well FM has been proved to work but its not as well tested
[15:56] <mfa298> you may also see it advertised as LSB/USB (Lower and Upper Side Band)
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[15:57] <OH2FQV> GE, was somewhere a site where to see balloon flight statistics per balloon?
[15:57] <mikestir> I wouldn't recommend the baofeng really. they're ok for the price I suppose but they really aren't that good
[15:58] <mikestir> I've got that B6 - the receiver is terrible
[15:58] <mattbrejza> habitat.habhub.org/stats OH2FQV
[15:58] <mfa298> when I last bought a handheld I don't think Baofeng was an option (or they were so new noone trusted them)
[15:59] <mikestir> the wouxun ones seem to get better press, but I haven't used one
[15:59] <mfa298> but then I got my license when a cheap single band handheld was >£100
[16:00] <mikestir> I use the baofeng in the car and it works, but strong stations quite often cut below the squelch for some reason, and it's really easily overloaded
[16:00] <OH2FQV> mattbrejza Thanks! that was what I think I wanted to find.
[16:11] <DL7AD> good evening
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[16:28] <MightyMik> the need is for a portable UHF SSB receiver ... that's why i linked the alinco
[16:30] <astrobiologist> MightyMik that is what the TH-F7E does, and it is a FM ham radio into the bargain
[16:30] <astrobiologist> the question is whether it is sensitive enough/fits the budgeyt
[16:31] <MightyMik> not everyone needs a transmitter. you doin't need one to receive. : )
[16:31] <astrobiologist> I paid £90 for mine on eBay and consider it an excellent intro to ham radio, the possibility of receiving hab was a bonus
[16:31] <MightyMik> the alinco has IF and I/Q out, if you needed to do some in field decoding
[16:32] <astrobiologist> MightMik it may well be useful to have a trasn
[16:32] <astrobiologist> transmitter in the field to talk to other hams to help you track, if you are out of 3G coverage etc
[16:33] <astrobiologist> I am planning to hook up the TH-F7E to my blackberry running a port of Mattbrejza's excellent android app. it may or may not work!
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[16:34] <MightyMik> that's not a bad price. just for me, i would use a wideband portable with something like a moxon antenna. would have worked for what i needed years back
[16:34] <mfa298> I'm pretty sure he made some comment about looking at doing his Amateur Radio tests which is one of the reasons I put the 817 out there as an option. It makes for a very nice rig that works for HF, VHF, UHF and hab
[16:34] <MightyMik> i have a Baofeng for transmitting : )
[16:35] <astrobiologist> I would buy an 817, honest, but they float around the £450 mark on ebay! everybody loves them!
[16:37] <MightyMik> that would be the F7A here
[16:38] <astrobiologist> that was out of my budget, but I saw £90 for the TH-F7E (A is American version with extra amateur band I think?) and thought what the heck. there wasn't too much interest on ebay so I got it
[16:38] <astrobiologist> there are three F7Es on ebay at the moment but they seem to be attracting more bids
[16:42] <MightyMik> an old Icom IC 402 if you coulc din one : )
[16:44] <astrobiologist> back from stygian depths of basement
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[17:04] <astrobiologist> did irc just drop out there for a bit or was it just me? it froze and I had to reboot
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> just you lat 10 min
[17:13] <astrobiologist> thanks LeoBodnar
[17:14] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, need some education - 2 identical pico setups (just made up numbers) payload 10g, qualatex ballon, one with free lift of 1g the other with free lift of 5g, what effects does the difference in free lift have on float altitude?
[17:14] <aadamson> obviously there is an ascent rate difference as well
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: Floating means that it is stationary in hte air.
[17:20] <LeoBodnar> it depends on envelope elasticity
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Being stationary in the air means that the overall density of the payload-balloon system and the air is the same
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> ideal SP balloon with higher free lift will float lower
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> lower?
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> because system density is higher
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[17:22] <LeoBodnar> but they are not ideal envelopes
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> I forgot free lift was not measured with the balloon fully inflated which confused me
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> Did you measure the expansion?
[17:25] <aadamson> ah, ok, thanks, that's which way I as leaning to a lower altitude for higher freelift. but I also understand the not ideal envelop comment and no two are identical so lots of variables... thanks SpeedEvil and LeoBodnar
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> If you have a balloon floating at 10km, and another similar one floating at 9km, then subtract the two masses of air displaced by the balloon at that atmosphere to get differences in free lift.
[17:26] Nick change: nyov_ -> nyov
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=density+of+air+at+9km+-+density+of+air+at+10km - or 53 grams/m^3
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> Though 9-10km is 43 mbar envelope pressure, which is quite a significant amount.
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[17:33] <LeoBodnar> lemme check
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[17:35] <LeoBodnar> on a typical Qualatex difference due to free lift gas weight will be 100m
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> weight difference is 0.6g
[17:36] <beo> hi
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> ascent rate difference will not be 5 times either
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> more like 2 times
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> 0.6m/s and 1.2m/s
[17:43] <beo> hi, I'm looking to start with ballooning. Already ordered some balloons, gopro, chute etc.
[17:43] <beo> I was wondering about the gas to use
[17:43] <mfa298> welcome beo
[17:43] <beo> He seems expensive. But is that true?
[17:44] <beo> Helium
[17:44] <mfa298> Most people use Helium or Hydrogen.
[17:44] <mfa298> have you thought about how you're going to track the balloon ?
[17:44] <beo> I calculate 125 euro for just the helium
[17:44] <beo> yes, I bought a tracker
[17:45] <mfa298> what sort of tracker have you got ?
[17:45] <beo> the kind of tracker to track cars and kids. moment
[17:45] <mfa298> Gas cost will depend on how much weight you need to lift which depends on the payload and balloon
[17:45] <aadamson> thanks LeoBodnar ^
[17:46] <mfa298> If it's a GSM (Mobile phone) tracker it's unlikely to work whilst the balloon is over 1km and may not work well on landing (seems to be around a 50% success rate with them)
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[17:47] <beo> Prime UT Realtime GPS tracker "UPT-F60"
[17:47] <beo> I don't expect it to work at height
[17:48] <LeoBodnar> Upu needs to learn how to call products
[17:49] <mfa298> beo: the other issue if that it may take a while to reconnect with the mobile networks as it comes down by which time it could be in a ditch with no signal
[17:49] <beo> yes. but what can you do about that
[17:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> pretty good range for oh2mui -> b62
[17:50] <beo> anyway, is hydrogen a common option?
[17:51] <mfa298> most people here build some sort of radio tracker which can work at high altitudes and with a suitable listener network (good over various bits of europe) you get live tracking (you should also track the signal as much as possible as well)
[17:51] <mfa298> If you want an off the shelf solution then there's also SPOT trackers
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[17:52] <mfa298> you can see some of what's been flown recently with radio trackers on http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[17:52] <beo> ok, moment, have to watch the ending of NED-MEX
[17:53] <mfa298> depending on where you are and if you're a licensed radio amateur (or can find someone to be involved that is) you may be able to use APRS (but it's not allowed in all places)
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> Where you are is important, some places HAB is basically illegal.
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[17:58] <beo> ok back. I'm in Holland. Doing this with a collegue from work. We're not radio amateurs
[17:59] <beo> From what I can see it is legal here, "for scientific purposes", and as long as you stay away from airfields. and the balloon is at most 2m diameter and 4 m^3, and about 3-4 kg max
[17:59] <SpeedEvil> Do they actually say 4m^3?
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> Oh - nvm
[18:00] <beo> yes, at sea level
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> best would be to go attend a launch by somebody else who has done it before
[18:00] <mfa298> there's a few people from .nl around here
[18:00] <LeoBodnar> guys from NL launching from time to time
[18:00] <beo> ok
[18:01] <LeoBodnar> you'll learn a lot
[18:01] <beo> it sounds like lots of fun
[18:01] <astrobiologist> so what happens if a U.K hab strays into dutch airspace?
[18:02] <lz1dev> WW3
[18:02] <LeoBodnar> probably WW62
[18:02] <mfa298> you may find theres someone reasonably local that's happy to stick a radio tracker on
[18:03] <beo> a balloon from holland is not allowed to cross the borders
[18:03] <LeoBodnar> it happens at least once a month
[18:03] <beo> is there a forum?
[18:03] <LeoBodnar> well in whatever case you have to comply with local rules
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[18:04] <LeoBodnar> that's important
[18:04] <LeoBodnar> was HABANERO from NL?
[18:04] <bertrik> LeoBodnar: yes
[18:04] <mfa298> there's a mailing list groups.google.com/group/ukhas or hang out here - this is where most people hang out
[18:05] <mfa298> Maxell is one of the .nl people
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> https://revspace.nl/HAB_launch
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[18:07] <bertrik> also https://revspace.nl/HAB_launch_2
[18:08] <beo> Thanks, nice links
[18:12] <astrobiologist> are picos essentially legal cross-border?
[18:15] <LeoBodnar> is this Santa? https://revspace.nl/images/thumb/b/bd/ContrailsHAB.jpg/800px-ContrailsHAB.jpg
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[18:17] <LeoBodnar> floating pico is abandoned property i guess
[18:17] <Laurenceb__> chemitrails
[18:18] <Laurenceb__> dat NWO
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> chemitrails last week http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_2235.jpg
[18:20] <Laurenceb__> http://www.bariumblues.com/
[18:20] <beo> crazy, the start if the hak5 video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anmVE6QzZHc is filmed 100 meters from my house
[18:21] <beo> ok thanks for the links. I have to go. cu later
[18:22] <bertrik> beo, you should come to revspace some time
[18:22] <bertrik> like, next tuesday evening
[18:23] <beo> hi bertrik
[18:23] <beo> It is in the hague?
[18:23] <bertrik> yes, spoorlaan 5d
[18:25] <beo> ok, I will check with my colegue also
[18:25] <beo> I live in the hague, alexander lives in rotterdam
[18:25] <beo> my name is marcel btw
[18:28] <bertrik> a former revspace participant did two or three launches, one of them from the revspace location
[18:29] <bertrik> we still have the tracker, at least the parts of it :)
[18:29] <bertrik> also the radio amateur club (veron) in the hague is planning a launch sometime this year
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[20:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dx.com/p/mini-cars-pets-kids-gps-gsm-gprs-tracker-w-2-flat-pin-plug-adapter-usb-cable-black-157795
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[20:29] <aadamson> is the android robot the new arduino? seems if you put it on things you sell more? lol
[20:30] Nick change: bfirsh_ -> bfirsh
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[20:32] <aadamson> SpeedEvil, - fyi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6lmlkNqIm0
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[20:33] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming it wan't really GPS
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> My assumption would be it sends a hashed cell-tower info to the number.
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> and then their website looks up this
[20:37] <aadamson> yep
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming you'd use a beeper + the payloads GPS to signal it
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[20:46] <amell> TinyGPS: how do i get satellite count? gps.satellites() isnt available for some reason.
[20:47] <myself> out of curiosity, have you made sure your receiver is outputting the sentences that contain that data? I think it's GPGSV
[20:47] <myself> it's possible to then that off and then your library wouldn't find the data in the stream..
[20:47] <amell> gpstx:156: error: 'class TinyGPS' has no member named 'satellites'
[20:47] <amell> its not defined in the class for some reason
[20:48] <myself> oh, software's outside my expertise.. heh
[20:51] <aadamson> amell, - http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygps/
[20:51] <amell> i suspect my tinygps is from some dubious source
[20:51] <amell> redownloading this one.
[20:51] <aadamson> you can also use http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygpsplus/ - which does have a satellites
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[20:52] <amell> its in that version too
[20:52] <aadamson> I didn't see it in the original, but it is in the ++ version
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[20:53] <aadamson> ah, it's in the original as well
[20:53] <amell> ++ looks a lot better.
[20:53] <aadamson> it's bigger however
[20:53] <amell> i think the one i have must be really old
[20:53] <aadamson> both in memory and flash size
[20:53] <amell> got 32K to play with so should be ok
[20:54] <aadamson> https://github.com/mikalhart -
[20:54] <aadamson> the main repository for both
[20:58] <mikestir> aadamson: did you implement orbit prediction in your tracker for determining when to attempt to work via iss?
[20:58] <aadamson> i did
[20:58] <mikestir> did you implement sgp4?
[20:58] <aadamson> no, not hardly,
[20:58] <aadamson> PLAN13
[20:58] <aadamson> sgp4 is too much, you don't need it
[20:59] <mikestir> ok. I'll have a look at that
[21:02] <aadamson> mikestir, PM
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[21:28] <arko> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2014-210#1
[21:28] <arko> awesome
[21:29] <arko> pretty cool hab recovery
[21:30] <amell> good job it didnt land in a cornfield
[21:30] <arko> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/ldsd/20140629/ldsd20140629-c-full.jpg
[21:30] <arko> balloon on its way down
[21:30] <arko> neat
[21:30] <amell> i hear it hit at 30mph
[21:31] <arko> looks in good shape
[21:31] <arko> im wondering if it had a reserve chute
[21:31] <arko> i dont think it did but it had a main chute cut off
[21:34] <arko> http://www.nasa.gov/jpl/ldsd/telecon2014/#.U7CGOfldV8E
[21:34] <arko> cool
[21:34] <fsphil> arko: that picture of the balloon looks like Butt-head driving a hovercraft
[21:34] <fsphil> (of beavis and butt-head)
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[21:34] <arko> hahaha
[21:34] <arko> wow.. good eye
[21:34] <fsphil> I can't unsee it now
[21:34] <arko> lol
[21:38] <arko> i wonder where they are going to bring it to for analysis
[21:38] <arko> i dont think a clean room
[21:41] <qyx_> still it seems to be a very low budget project to me
[21:42] <qyx_> gopro's, man swimming instead of some super cool automatic sea machinery
[21:42] <qyx_> totally boring chase ship
[21:43] <qyx_> even the mission control room was very unusual
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[22:12] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Flerb
[22:17] <craag> Evening Flerb
[22:17] <craag> Reminder: VHF Field Day next weekend
[22:17] <Flerb> Hi
[22:17] <Flerb> Oh right
[22:17] <Flerb> Think I can still make it
[22:18] <Flerb> I need to figure if its possible to walk from Basingstoke town centre
[22:18] <craag> no worries if not, but you're welcome to stop by
[22:18] <craag> erm no
[22:18] <craag> it's a bit out in the farmland
[22:18] <craag> and up a busy A road
[22:18] <Flerb> Don't want to drag anyone out there. But I can try to persuade them
[22:19] <craag> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=za7BzI-3Wfdo.kuzY4Clb_O3A
[22:20] <Flerb> I see
[22:21] <Flerb> craag: how are you anyway? Finished uni?
[22:21] <craag> Yep finished uni now
[22:21] <craag> Rather good thanks
[22:22] <Flerb> Can you still be part of suws then?
[22:22] <craag> Yes I will
[22:22] <Flerb> I take it you graduated them
[22:22] <Flerb> *then
[22:22] <craag> Our constitution is friendly to non-student members, however I'm not allowed to speak at the AGM.
[22:22] <craag> I did
[22:22] <craag> BEng Electronic Engineering :)
[22:23] <craag> Official ceremony in 3 weeks
[22:23] <amell> your opportunity to wear a silly hat
[22:23] <craag> shake someone who i've never heard of's hand
[22:24] <craag> get a rolled up piece of paper
[22:24] <craag> that represents a stupid amount of monetary investment
[22:24] <craag> etc
[22:24] <amell> pass wind at a quiet moment in the ceremony etc.
[22:24] <craag> ;)
[22:24] <craag> fall flat on my face on the stage
[22:25] <craag> (if I say it now it'll never happen right?)
[22:25] <amell> I had William Wilberforce for my degree presentation.
[22:25] <Flerb> craag: I was thinking of Southampton Uni
[22:25] <amell> well, his g.g.g.g.grandson :)
[22:26] <Flerb> But its not far away enough
[22:26] <Flerb> craag: you originally from soton?
[22:26] <craag> amell: I was gonna say.....
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[22:26] <craag> Flerb: Nope, from all around really, although spent most time in london
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[22:27] <craag> Dad is raf, so we move a lot.
[22:27] <mfa298> 23:23 < craag> shake someone who i've never heard of's hand
[22:27] <mfa298> you mean do a silly handshake
[22:28] <mfa298> or at least that's what it was when I graduated too many years ago
[22:28] <craag> hehe
[22:28] <craag> I'm in ceremony #35 of this batch
[22:28] <craag> I think said person might be a bit bored of silly handshakes by then :P
[22:29] <gonzo_> at ours, only the 1st got a handshake
[22:29] <craag> I didn't get a 1st, but had to fill a form out in which it asked if I would accept a handshake, so hopefully I get one.
[22:30] <gonzo_> I didn't bother going, I was busy building lighting dimmer racks for a big gig that was coming up
[22:30] <craag> ha!
[22:30] <craag> well my parents like the idea of it
[22:30] <craag> so might as well do it for half a day
[22:31] <craag> my brother has already made his excuses - he'll be setting up audio gear for a festival that weekend
[22:31] <gonzo_> our chancelor was so creaky, he sat in a wheelchair, the vice did the hand shakes
[22:31] <Flerb> Interesting, they allow you to graduate with a no handshake option due to handshakes not being culturally appropriate for some students
[22:31] <amell> because they wipe their bottom with that hand?
[22:32] <craag> I believe it's female muslims.
[22:32] <daveake> How do you know the right one is receiving the degree?
[22:32] <amell> well, i dont see why everyone cant shake hands just because theres a female muslim in the group? crazy.
[22:32] <craag> They're not allowed to shake hands with men who they arent't related to.
[22:32] <craag> amell: Everyone else can
[22:33] <gonzo_> someone mentioned beig on a job is a country with that rule. Eating with the bum hand was taboo
[22:33] <amell> just put a box on the form tick if you are a female muslim
[22:33] <Ian_> Note to self about nose picking!
[22:34] <Flerb> I remember going on a building site and having to declare that I'm not a Sikh and therefore can wear a hard hat
[22:34] <amell> ffs
[22:34] <gonzo_> when the restaraunt he was in went quiet and he was being stared at, he decided to make a bum wipe gestrure with the other hand, to show he was left handed
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[22:34] <daveake> lol
[22:34] <Flerb> craag: congratulations on graduating by the way
[22:34] <daveake> +1
[22:35] <amell> +1
[22:35] <amell> =3?
[22:35] <daveake> depends on which degree
[22:35] <daveake> if it was politics it's any number that fits your argument
[22:35] <Flerb> Has anyone seen the airport gag chain email?
[22:35] <craag> electronic engineering Dave
[22:35] <daveake> yes I know :)
[22:35] <daveake> Well roughly
[22:36] <amell> congrats on going to a real uni
[22:36] <daveake> Same as me then
[22:36] <craag> Thanks all, it's been a long few years
[22:36] <gonzo_> first deg?
[22:36] <daveake> except mine included valves
[22:36] <Darkside> craag: got a job lined up?
[22:36] <amell> many students at cambridge have no concept of real world.
[22:36] <craag> I won't blame you guys too much for distracting me enough to have to resit the last year :P
[22:36] <mfa298> amell: I'd imagine that's effectivly what the tick box is, except more politically correct and more accurate (there may be people that aren't female muslims that don't want the hanshake for some reason. and some female muslims that are quite happy to have the handshake)
[22:37] <Flerb> Should say your name is Makollig Jezvahted and Levdaroum DeBahzted
[22:37] <amell> mfa298: tick box if you wish to remain undefiled
[22:38] <craag> Darkside: Started up a company with a couple of others in september, putting in evening/weekend hours when I can this year. Now gone into fulltime hours, so much less stressful :)
[22:38] <gonzo_> some of the airport announcements i heard yesterday sounded just like those joke ones
[22:38] <daveake> craag They should increase your degree by one grade for being destracted by something interesting :)
[22:38] <Darkside> craag: nice, im starting at lockheed martin today :-)
[22:38] <daveake> haha nice :)
[22:39] <craag> awesome Darkside !
[22:39] <amell> Darkside: in the skunkworks?
[22:39] <Darkside> local R&D most likly
[22:39] <Darkside> Adelaide, South Australia
[22:39] <Darkside> working on over-the-horizon radar stuff
[22:39] <Flerb> I think Soton uni is far too close to home
[22:39] <craag> very cool
[22:39] <Flerb> Need somewhere far away
[22:40] <Flerb> Other side of the world
[22:40] <Darkside> Uni Adelaide!
[22:40] <mfa298> just because the Uni is close to home doesn't mean you have to go home.
[22:40] <craag> Yeah I'd say basingstoke <=> soton is a good distance
[22:40] <Flerb> mfa298: yes but a complete change of scenery would be nice
[22:40] <craag> No need for flights back when you've forgotten something :P
[22:41] <mfa298> we have the sea (well almost) that's a change of scenery
[22:41] <Flerb> Just stick it on Leo's floaters and it'd get there
[22:41] <bertrik> Darkside: cool, I did my practical training for electrical engeering at the university of south australia, adelaide. I think they did military stuff too.
[22:42] <Darkside> bertrik: oh cool!
[22:42] <Flerb> So my dad wants CCTV now. I offered to build a system for him
[22:42] <Flerb> Raspberry pi in fake cctv camera
[22:43] <Flerb> Records when there's motion, videos upload to an ec2 instance or something
[22:43] <craag> Flerb: http://www.raspberrypi.org/turn-your-pi-into-a-low-cost-hd-surveillance-cam/
[22:43] <Flerb> I saw thaf
[22:43] <craag> Been looking into it for work
[22:43] <amell> swann system from maplin will be cheaper
[22:43] <craag> yeah depends on your requirements
[22:44] <craag> if you want live video with screens, a cheap off-the-shelf cctv system would be a better bet
[22:44] <Flerb> craag: we don't really
[22:44] <Flerb> Just a record of what goes on
[22:44] <Flerb> Just in case an evil person tries to get in
[22:44] <Flerb> Can't get night vision pi cameras can you?
[22:45] <craag> Not thermal, but IR sure.
[22:45] <craag> Then jsut need a motion-activated IR lamp.
[22:45] <mfa298> there's the PiNoir but you probably need to add IR illumination
[22:45] <Darkside> PiNoir...
[22:45] <Darkside> lol
[22:46] <craag> or 100% IR lamp like most night cameras have
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[22:46] <Flerb> craag: could just get an ir led?
[22:46] <mfa298> of course the survelance system isn't much good if the evil person takes the camera and pi as well ;)
[22:46] <Flerb> A really bright one?
[22:47] <craag> Flerb: Generally a cluster of bright ones
[22:47] <craag> Depends on the space you're trying to illuminate
[22:47] <craag> how far away for example
[22:48] <Flerb> I couldn't tell
[22:48] <mfa298> I think for any surveilance system to be useful you also have to have suitable warning signs otherwise the footage can't be used.
[22:48] <craag> mfa298: Even if it's on your property?
[22:48] <amell> not sure that applies to residential property
[22:48] <Flerb> Wait why?
[22:49] <Flerb> Why do you need to warn people?
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[22:49] <amell> http://www.homecctvdirect.co.uk/home-cctv-uk-law.html
[22:49] <mfa298> it may be that it's just in-addmissable at court - but might be ok for a police investigation
[22:50] <amell> as far as i know home CCTV can be used in court.
[22:51] <amell> just need to make sure the evidence chain is documented
[22:52] <amell> i.e. police observe the transfer of the video off the system and given to them.
[22:53] <mfa298> of course signage would probably act as a very good deterrent (and is probably what's really wanted) and is much cheaper than actually installing cctv
[22:54] <Maxell> Flerb: not sure about British laws but in .nl shops are only allowed to store the CCTV footage for 24 hours.
[22:54] <Maxell> uh that should be craag
[22:55] <Maxell> And "your work" could even suffcient private property to allow longer storage
[22:56] <craag> Yeah being a new company the office is someone's spare room :P
[22:56] <craag> So it's residential property
[22:56] <Flerb> I actually managed to get into the IP cams of a random restaurant in Asia somewhere
[22:57] <Flerb> Just googled for a particular IP cam dashboard
[22:57] <Flerb> Tried the default password
[22:57] <amell> did you announce that the chef spat in the food via the speaker?
[22:57] <Flerb> It worked. Don't tell anyone
[22:57] <Flerb> I realised it was a stupid idea afterwards
[22:58] <Maxell> Flerb: google dorks are fun on ip cams
[22:59] <Maxell> even better on networked pinters :O
[22:59] <Flerb> Maxell: ik. I learned how to do it on anonops
[23:00] <Flerb> They have a tutorials bot
[23:00] <Flerb> Its brilliant
[23:00] <Flerb> Teaches rfi, which I've not managed before
[23:00] <DL7AD> morning
[23:00] <Flerb> Not that I've tried anything illegal
[23:00] <Maxell> anonops... that was a while ago :P
[23:01] <Flerb> There was some two way audio function but it was a bit buggy
[23:01] <mfa298> Maxell: I know someone that wrote a security scanning system that looked for open ftp servers as one of it's tests. A number of network printers would randomly print out a page when scanned saying they were running an open ftp server
[23:01] <mfa298> sort of related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqFSRwgqgYk
[23:01] <Maxell> mfa298: "randomly" yeah right ;)
[23:02] <Maxell> "PLEASE CALL SYSTEM ADMINISTATOR"
[23:02] <Maxell> loll
[23:02] <mfa298> well they were running an insecure ftp server and we were the team responsible for the network which included security of said network (/16 so a good number of hosts)
[23:03] <Flerb> mfa298: its a bit nicer than printing a black page
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[23:04] <Maxell> mfa298: nice clip. Did it got linked before for one of the M0XER APRS packets? :P
[23:04] <mfa298> I think some of those printers were a bit buggy and would crash after that scan had happened (this was around 2002)
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[23:47] <DL7AD> B-62 has moved :D
[00:00] --- Mon Jun 30 2014