[00:00] <PE2G> Despite the descent, the elevation is still increasing here
[00:00] <PE2G> Well, a bit, -0.3 deg now
[00:02] <G8APZ> some data suggests a slight stability.. not all down!
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[00:07] <PE2G> Elevation -0.2 deg now
[00:07] <G8APZ> 50m ascent between telem blocks
[00:09] <G8APZ> back above 5km
[00:11] <G8APZ> Must have been ice on the envelope
[00:11] <PE2G> Possibly
[00:12] <PE2G> Maybe the Herstmonceux 00 UTC sounding will shed some light on this
[00:13] <G8APZ> If it was a slight leak, I can't think it would climb again
[00:13] <PE2G> Agree
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[00:17] <G8APZ> PE2G you will be getting a good increase in signals soon!
[00:18] <PE2G> G8APZ: I'm already noticing that :)
[00:19] <G8APZ> Unfortunately, I'm getting decresing sigs
[00:20] <PE2G> What elevation so you show?
[00:20] <PE2G> *do you
[00:20] <G8APZ> 0.8
[00:21] <G8APZ> 181km
[00:21] <PE2G> OK
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[00:34] <PE2G> 0 deg elevation now
[00:36] <amell> any herstmonceux data yet?
[00:36] <G8APZ> WG2 Welkom in Nederland
[00:36] <G8APZ> crossed into Dutch territorial waters!
[00:37] <PE2G> amell: Not yet.
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[00:40] <G8APZ> Olivia is very impressive on weak sigs
[00:41] <G8APZ> 0.6 and very weak but still mainly green
[00:42] <PE2G> amell: De Bilt (NL) 00UTC is showing high humidity at around 8000-9000 m
[00:42] <PE2G> http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=europe&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=2014&MONTH=06&FROM=2600&TO=2600&STNM=06260
[00:45] <G8APZ> 85% rel humidity at 5km
[00:45] <G8APZ> recipe for ice I'd think
[00:45] <amell> PE2G: actually that shows heavy water vapor content at 4100-5600m
[00:45] <amell> MIXR column
[00:46] <PE2G> Yes, everywhere above 4100 m in fact
[00:46] <amell> no ice above 8K, if it had flown higher like a B it would have been fine.
[00:46] <G8APZ> maybe that is why it descended, and then it melted off... still steady at 5k2 though
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[00:49] <PE2G> These data suggest that it still
[00:50] <G8APZ> I've lost sigs now... a few reds then nil
[00:50] <PE2G> ...is in a high humidity region
[00:53] <PE2G> Beauvechain (near Brussels) 00 UTC: http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=europe&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=2014&MONTH=06&FROM=2600&TO=2600&STNM=06458
[00:54] <PE2G> High humidity between 5000 and 9300 m
[00:56] <PE2G> Herstmonceux seems not active tonight
[00:59] <G8APZ> WG2 is now over Dutch land
[00:59] <G8APZ> made it to continental europe
[01:01] <G8APZ> and with that, no signals and time for my bed! Goodnight all
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[01:01] <PE2G> Goodnight G8APZ
[01:02] <G8APZ> 73
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[01:32] <PE2G> WG2 showing continuous descent again
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[01:50] <PE2G> WG2 climbing again :)
[01:59] <PE2G> $$$$$WG2,1382,015805,0.0000,0.0000,0,0.0,0,1410,1987,-7,02608200*926D
[01:59] <PE2G> Positioning is back now.
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[02:48] <PE2G> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/126907_trj001.gif
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[03:09] <PE2G> Sunrise for WG2 in about 15 min, so there is hope
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[04:49] <tweetBot> @DutchMillbt: HighAltitudeBalloon WG2 in the air, path -&gt; BE-&gt;D #ukhas @434.448 mod. SSB olivia 8/1000
[04:49] <tweetBot> we need hams #hamradio see:http://t.co/CcxbaaiUQF
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[05:03] <PE2G> $$$$$WG2,1762,050312,0.0000,0.0000,0,0.0,0,1448,1991,-1,34608200*2C61
[05:04] <PE2G> $$$$$WG2,1763,050342,51.0506,5.5538,3872,362.7,10,1425,1991,-2,30608200*725B
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[06:16] <DJ3AK> good morning PE2G , what is the freq. for WG2?
[06:17] <PE2G> Gutenmorgen DJ3AK 434.448.1 center 1592
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[06:18] <DJ3AK> PE2G Hallo, Danke, nun empfange ich es auch :-)
[06:19] <PE2G> OK, kann ich endlich mal schlafen gehen ;)
[06:19] <DJ3AK> ja, genau, muss aber meine Station auch alleine lassen in wenigen Minuten. QRL
[06:19] <PE2G> OK
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[06:26] <DJ3AK> PE2G hast Du AFC wg. Drift?
[06:26] <PE2G> DJ3AK: Nein, mache alles handmässig
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[06:27] <DJ3AK> Ah, Signal driftet sehr und dekodiert nur Unsinn zurzeit
[06:27] <DJ3AK> bei mir...
[06:30] <PE2G> Hast Du Tune Margin auf 16 gestellt? (In fldigi Configuration)
[06:30] <gonzo_m> does anyone know if the friedrichscafen launch will be from the ham radio show?
[06:30] <gonzo_m> or have an rx site there?
[06:32] <PE2G> gonzo_m: launch from the airport, IIRC
[06:34] <DJ3AK> PE2G Tune margin war auf 8
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[06:35] <gonzo_m> thanks. hope tgey have a rx demo at the show.
[06:36] <gonzo_m> i'll be there
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[06:38] <PE2G> gonzo_m: At this site it says that the launch will be from the radio show: http://p56.de/ballonprojekt/20140628.php
[06:38] <Maxell> 3 mins ago $$WG2,
[06:38] <Maxell> thats all :(
[06:39] <gonzo_m> nice .thanks
[06:39] <PE2G> gonzo-m: And in the post to the UKHAS mailing list, the airport is mentioned
[06:40] <Maxell> $$WG2,1>58,063840,50.7138,7.2577,7552,1064.6,8,1!0,1987,<5,34608200*DDEC
[06:41] <PE2G> Maxell, goodmorning, I'll stop Teamviewer now
[06:41] <mikestir> morning all. just dropping in before work to thank everyone that stayed up tracking WG2
[06:46] <PE2G> mikestir: morning, WG2 survived the night. Descended to ~3100 m at some stage, but climbed again
[06:46] <DJ3AK> PE2G my fault... nw changed from contestis to olivia. tnx
[06:47] <PE2G> DJ3AK: Sorry that I didnt mention Olivia...
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[06:50] <DJ3AK> no prob., tnx a lot.. see u later
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[06:57] <Adam012> Hi all, planned a launch this weekend but unhappy with both days. Ascent speed 4.5m/s, burst height 40500m, descent speed 5.5m/s. Launching 10am from Walsall on the Sunday is the best as it heads south over birmingham and lands to the south of the city near Marlbrook
[06:58] <Adam012> Flying Saturday heads north but heavy rain predicted.
[06:59] <Maxell> PE2G: yes, ok. Last packet RXed by RevSpace was at 50.8085, 6.7166: 215 kms
[07:00] <Maxell> PE2G: thanks for tracking :)
[07:00] <PE2G> OK my pleasure :)
[07:00] <Maxell> Only one packet was "RevSpace only"!
[07:01] <Maxell> You, dutchmillbt, jijdaar, pb0ahx also RX'ed something at the same time
[07:01] <Maxell> afk again
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[07:09] <fsphil> morning all. WG2 doing well!
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[07:10] <G8APZ> Leo just launched X!
[07:10] <G8APZ> X1
[07:12] <G8APZ> Either that or it's on a tether!
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[07:13] <G8APZ> altitude jumped from 100m but looks as though it's not climbing...aargh!
[07:14] <ProSpectre> mornin
[07:15] <ProSpectre> btw who's DJ3AK?
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[07:18] <PE2G> ProSpectre: DJ3AK left his rx running unattended
[07:18] <G8APZ> http://www.qrz.com/db/DJ3AK
[07:19] <G8APZ> PE2G You are doing well! Still receiving after all these hours
[07:21] <PE2G> G8APZ: Yeah it went well. Didn't go to bed and controlled Revspace's rx remotely as well
[07:21] <G8APZ> oh well done!!!
[07:22] <G8APZ> What's Leo's usual QRG?
[07:22] <PE2G> 434.500
[07:23] <G8APZ> Seems he's launched X1 but no flight in FLdigi
[07:23] <fsphil> just a test probably
[07:23] <G8APZ> I noticed altitude change at 08:10
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[07:26] <Maxell> PE2G: great work I tell you! :D
[07:26] <PE2G> Thanks Maxell :)
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[07:31] <Maxell> I wonder how X1 will end up. So much testing. Very revolutionary. Wow.
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[07:34] <G8APZ> Maxell do you know what it's planned to do?
[07:38] <ProSpectre> PE2G: what frequency are you on when listening to WG2 atm?
[07:38] <malgar> I'm tempted to track WG2 but I have negative altitude
[07:39] <malgar> but maybe from the mountains is possible
[07:39] <DutchMillbt> Good morning anything on BALYOLO?
[07:39] <PE2G> ProSpectre: 434.447.3 cursor 1500
[07:40] <ProSpectre> thx will try that
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[07:42] <PE2G> malgar: Olivia 8/1000 is rock solid at low signal strength
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[07:43] <malgar> so would worth a try? :)
[07:43] <PE2G> Yeah, go for it :)
[07:45] <PE2G> malgar: In Configure > Modems > Olivia > set Tune Margin to 16
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[07:45] <malgar> real flight is a lot northern than expected in the predictions
[07:46] <PE2G> Too far north for you?
[07:46] <HA6NN> GM all, The frequency of WG2 was changed to 434450 kHz because of QRM. Is thar frequency rifgt?
[07:46] <HA6NN> eee right?
[07:47] <malgar> PE2G: don't know. For sure altitude is negative
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[07:48] <PE2G> HA6NN: ~434.450 was/is reasonably clean here.
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[07:50] <PE2G> malgar: I had good reception at -0.4 deg (with a free horizon)
[07:51] <malgar> ok.. but before I have to charge my laptop because my car inverter is broken
[07:51] <malgar> :)
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[08:10] <HA6NN> PE2G: Hello, Does it mean WG2 sends on 434450? It's clear down here...
[08:11] <mikestir-work> it's probably a little bit lower than that
[08:11] <mikestir-work> I think it was about 434.446 last time I heard it
[08:11] <PE2G> HA6NN, it's currently on 434.447 center 1900 Hz
[08:12] <HA6NN> PE2G: Thank you so much!
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[08:23] <PE2G> W2G at 0 deg: http://s4.postimg.org/ank4mt42l/Screen_26_06_14_10_21_40.png
[08:23] <PE2G> *WG2
[08:24] <SA6BSS> Anyone familiar with atmega328p, how do you upload a program to the ship?? via avr studio or? using a usb to 6pin isp programmer.
[08:25] <mikestir-work> avr studio probably requires the real atmel avrisp (or stk500)
[08:25] <mikestir-work> try avrdude
[08:25] <SA6BSS> ok, try that, tnx
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[08:31] <fsphil> avrdude is excellent
[08:35] <SpeedEvil> http://euclidthegame.org - unsure if I linked this here. I found it excellent fun. (I got stuck on level 19)
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[08:51] <PE2G> I'm losing WG2 at -0.3 deg and 357 km now
[08:52] <mikestir-work> could do with some more german, austrian or czech stations
[08:52] <Maxell> G8APZ: I have no idea, but the amount of testing indicated it's something new.
[08:54] <PE2G> Bips also gone.
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[08:54] <amell> impressed at battery longevity for WG2
[08:54] <mikestir-work> PE2G: the modulation seems to work very well. basically if you can see it at all then you're pretty much getting greens
[08:54] Action: amell wonders if X1 will take off any time soon
[08:55] <mikestir-work> amell: battery should hopefully last until tomorrow morning
[08:55] <amell> is that a single AAA?
[08:55] <mikestir-work> yes
[08:55] <Maxell> PE2G: Olivia might outpreform the pips?
[08:56] <fsphil> we should put up thor against olivia and contestia
[08:56] <fsphil> on the same flight
[08:56] <fsphil> for a fair test
[08:56] <mikestir-work> fsphil: I could do that on this tracker. it already supports domex olivia and contestia
[08:56] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Live Broadcast of School's 434.400 MHz Balloon Launch Sat. 10am http://t.co/qZJwzMUTli #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[08:56] <mikestir-work> it wouldn't be much of a stretch to do thor
[08:56] <fsphil> nope, if you can do domex, thor is easy
[08:57] <fsphil> are you just doing olivia with FSK?
[08:57] <mikestir-work> no, programming the pll
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[08:57] <Maxell> OK1SLA
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[08:57] <Maxell> would be nice to get him online
[08:57] <PE2G> Maxell: no trace of the signal anymore. No partial decodes either.
[08:58] <mikestir-work> no trackers now :(
[08:58] <PE2G> mikestir-work: I'm very impressed. Thanks for the flight, it was fun.
[08:58] <Maxell> PE2G: yep thats for sure digital signal... Once the FEC blocks run out all is lost :)
[08:58] <mikestir-work> PE2G: thanks for staying up all night!
[08:59] <Maxell> Yeah, PE2G \o/
[08:59] <Maxell> fsphil: do require RXid then
[08:59] <Maxell> But that is domex
[08:59] <DutchMillbt> Good morning all, someone from the BALYOLO team active here ?
[08:59] <mikestir-work> Maxell: yes that's a problem. It's not domex and it uses an annoying tone spacing that I can't do
[08:59] <Maxell> mikestir-work: not domex? Oh weird.
[08:59] <PE2G> mikestir-work, Maxell: I'll try to get some sleep now, bye
[09:00] <mikestir-work> it's very similar to domex
[09:00] <Maxell> PE2G: get some rest :P
[09:00] <DutchMillbt> 73 PE2G
[09:00] <mikestir-work> but it only supports the 11.025 kHz derived tone spacings, whereas domino supports both 11.025 and 8 kHz
[09:00] <PE2G> See you later!
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[09:00] <Maxell> mikestir-work: 11.025 kilohertz?
[09:00] <DutchMillbt> yep...slaap ze ;-)
[09:01] <mikestir-work> Maxell: yes. the tone spacings on all these mfsk modes are based on the sound card sample rate
[09:01] <mikestir-work> makes the software easier
[09:01] <Maxell> Very confused :P
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[09:03] <Maxell> mikestir-work: so it's not "regular fsk"?
[09:04] <Maxell> How does that translate into changing the pll?
[09:04] <mikestir-work> it's multi tone fsk
[09:04] <mikestir-work> if you do it by tuning the pll you can only do a tone spacing that's a multiple of the pll steps
[09:05] <mikestir-work> which in my case is 7.8125 Hz
[09:05] <mikestir-work> and unlike rtty, for mfsk the tone spacing has to be (idealy) exactly the same as the baud
[09:06] <mikestir-work> so when the tracker is generating olivia it switches the CPU from the low power internal clock over to a clock provided by the transmitter, so that everything is in sync
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[09:11] <mikestir-work> can anyone get in touch with OK1SLA? suppose the problem now is that everyone is at work
[09:16] <DutchMillbt> mikestir OM1ATS and HA6NN popped up last hour on the map, they are standby i quess
[09:18] <DutchMillbt> mus leave fo a few ours...good luck
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[09:20] <HA6NN> Gone shopping. Sorry!
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[09:21] <FuzzyLemon_> hi im testing my habduino on sdr sharp and although it works fine on my desktop computer, the signal is really weak on the laptop
[09:21] <daveake> check the audio device volume setting
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[09:24] <Maxell> chat chat :)
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[09:34] <SM5OCI> Hmmm.... The WG2 speed... Was it that data we should divide by 10?
[09:35] <mikestir-work> yes!
[09:36] <mikestir-work> different GPS message and the speed data went from cm/s to mm/s - I never noticed
[09:37] <SM5OCI> 105+km/h is not bad either, even over Autobahn-land!
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[09:40] <SM5OCI> mikestir-work: And the battery will last to ... Friday morning?
[09:40] <mikestir-work> hope so
[09:40] <SM5OCI> ok
[09:41] <mikestir-work> at that speed I suspect a lack of trackers will be the limiting factor first
[09:41] <craag> Survived night and sunrise, well done mikestir-work !
[09:41] <mikestir-work> thanks craag. I think it wanted to land over night!
[09:42] <craag> Yeah I see that, I reckon you got the free lift quite marginal then, so less stress on the envelope :)
[09:44] <mikestir-work> yeah it ended up about 1.7g
[09:45] <mikestir-work> maybe try to get a bit closer to 2 for next time
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[09:48] <Laurenceb> how long will the battery last?
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[09:59] <amell> how do you measure free lift at such low lifts?
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[09:59] <craag> drug dealers scales
[09:59] <amell> milk bottles with water is the obvious for larger
[09:59] <craag> and inside with no wind
[09:59] <craag> blue tack
[10:00] <amell> whats a drug dealers scale look like?
[10:00] <craag> Get 2g of blue tack, measured on tiny electronic scales
[10:00] <craag> stick it to the balloon
[10:00] <amell> ah.
[10:00] <craag> fill until neutrally buoyant
[10:00] <craag> (remove blue tack before attempting to launch)
[10:01] <amell> got an example of scales i have kitchen scales, but they only measure in g.
[10:01] <craag> yeah me too
[10:01] <craag> I think they're also referred to as jewelry scales
[10:01] Action: amell wonders if he can walk through a door way with a 100g pawan
[10:02] Action: mikestir-work used an analytical lab balance :)
[10:03] <craag> latex floats require a little less precision I think
[10:03] <craag> and more free lift
[10:05] <mfa298> with a suitable long stick you should be able to setup something that can do a fairly accurate measurement with less precise weights (20g on one side balancing 2g on the other)
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[10:14] <mikestir-work> that's the first time I've seen the tracker in anything other than power optimised tracking mode
[10:14] <mikestir-work> 9 sats though. must have stopped to update the ephemeris
[10:15] <mikestir-work> and back again
[10:17] <tweetBot> @mikestir_uk: WG2 flight just entered country number 5 (Czech Republic). Battery seems to be holding up well. #ukhas
[10:21] <G8APZ> mikestir-work screenshots sent via email
[10:21] <G8APZ> SP3MCY now tracking from Poland
[10:21] <mikestir-work> ok thanks G8APZ
[10:22] <mikestir-work> I think there are a few stations in OM and HA on standby too
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[11:04] <FuzzyLemon_> hi im preparing to launch BALYOLO. is anyone around t help with tracking?
[11:05] <daveake> sure
[11:05] <daveake> there'll be plenty just say when and what freq
[11:08] <daveake> Have you checked your notam?
[11:08] <daveake> Prediction: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=149afa379e5245888d44166509de555e51b1dc8e
[11:08] <daveake> FROM RELEASE SITE.
[11:08] <daveake> oh sorry
[11:09] <daveake> someone else's notam :/
[11:09] <daveake> chose a one near you not yours
[11:10] <daveake> thought you were in Oxford for some reason
[11:10] <FuzzyLemon_> no in Whitchurch
[11:11] <daveake> yeah gottit
[11:11] Action: daveake goes to specsavers
[11:11] <FuzzyLemon_> freq 434.5MHz. Launch time 12.40
[11:11] <daveake> ok
[11:11] <daveake> Good job Leo's not flying :p
[11:12] <mikestir-work> I was thinking that, but I reckon contestia would win in a fight with rtty
[11:13] <daveake> yes but signal strength could go either way
[11:14] <daveake> Leo's flights are low and likely to be a long way away
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[11:17] <G8APZ> FuzzyLemon Is that battery reading right? 175mV?
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[11:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> *Steve wakes up* Is that launch today guys?
[11:18] <fsphil> yep
[11:18] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cheers Phil
[11:18] <daveake> Don't you have your alarm clock triggered by launches?
[11:18] <daveake> I know I don't
[11:19] <fsphil> Me and my alarm don't get on well as it is
[11:19] <Steve_G0TDJ> LOL No, I just watch the UKHAS Google group (sometimes)
[11:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> And I watch the text in here a lot
[11:24] <mfa298> why do people not send announcments to the list. The vital power switch(s) for my tracking station are 25 miles away and my arms aren't that long
[11:28] Action: SpeedEvil rebuilds mfa298.
[11:28] <fsphil> the £5.99 man
[11:28] <fsphil> we have the technology
[11:28] <fsphil> it's from lidl
[11:29] <daveake> He needs his arm to be a lidle longer
[11:29] <daveake> lidl
[11:29] Action: mfa298 groans
[11:29] <fsphil> every little helps
[11:29] <fsphil> lidl*
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> That's Asda
[11:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> And then some
[11:32] <mfa298> maybe I asda get out of here sometimes
[11:32] <fsphil> you took that too spar
[11:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> It would be the Safeway
[11:33] <daveake> He's not Budgen
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[11:34] <fsphil> he won't get far.. nell
[11:35] <fsphil> n/m
[11:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> Unless he uses a Map.. Linn
[11:35] <mfa298> maybe we should wait(rose) for some better puns
[11:36] <daveake> yeah this chain is long enough
[11:37] <daveake> FuzzyLemon, Do you intend to upload data during the launch? No data since 10:50
[11:41] <FuzzyLemon_> BALYOLO is in the air
[11:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> Is that on 434.5?
[11:42] <daveake> Why no local uploads then?
[11:42] <FuzzyLemon_> yes
[11:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> Tks
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[11:43] <fsphil> still no data from the launch site
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[11:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> Just updated
[11:43] <fsphil> by astra
[11:44] <mattbrejza> nice and strong here
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[11:55] <daveake> Starting to appear here now it's cleared the local hill
[11:56] <Steve_G0TDJ> Just coming up here
[11:58] <Steve_G0TDJ> Partials
[12:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> And first green
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[12:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Not quite strong enough here for constant greens plus I have some local noise
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[12:05] <amell> hey, a balloon!
[12:05] Action: amell gets excited
[12:05] <fsphil> Woo
[12:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> 434.5 RTTY 50 7n2 533Hz shift
[12:07] <amell> its coming to ME!
[12:08] <Maxell> BALYOLO 434.50MHz RTTY 50 7n2 533Hz shift ok?
[12:08] <UpuWork> yeah
[12:08] <UpuWork> you should see it with that
[12:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> Getting greens here
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[12:13] <Maxell> qrm gone on 434.5 mhz now
[12:14] <amell> Soundflower issues here :(
[12:14] <Steve_G0TDJ> Reasonable here now
[12:15] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good sig from BALYOLO - Probably cleared my local hill
[12:15] <Maxell> explain this "local hill" problem to me?
[12:15] <fsphil> radio signals don't travel through ground very well
[12:15] <Maxell> Here in .nl if it's 0.1 degree above hozin i grab em ;)
[12:15] <fsphil> hills often get in the way
[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> Thanks Phil ;-)
[12:16] <Maxell> fsphil: hills?
[12:16] <Maxell> how do they work?
[12:16] <fsphil> they're like speed bumps
[12:16] <fsphil> only bigger
[12:16] <myself> sleeping policemen?
[12:16] <Maxell> And what if your land does not include hills
[12:16] <fsphil> you need to return it
[12:16] <fsphil> or invade land that features them
[12:17] <fsphil> china has been removing mountains lately. you may be able to import the material and build a few
[12:17] <Maxell> Nice. Do I get lucky baby discount free shipping? :P
[12:18] <mfa298> if you're land doesn't have hills you may want to start praying that global warming and rising sea levels are a myth, otherwise invest in a house boat.
[12:18] <Maxell> Still no RTTY on the band
[12:18] <Maxell> Within horizon though
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[12:20] <fsphil> It must be hills
[12:20] <fsphil> see, you do have them
[12:20] <Maxell> Building shaped hills god damn!!
[12:20] <craag> or a lack of a hill to live on top of
[12:20] <amell> strange. decode errors but clean on wf.
[12:21] <fsphil> there can't be many broadcast towers in .nl
[12:21] <fsphil> you'd only need one
[12:21] <Maxell> Well there we go... $$BanYGLO,2p2,12:20:42,u1870y4l-0.w4311<10823,6,11,2x0,0"7DB0wn[X2:20:77,51.y7698!,-0767716,10893,6qx,2898,00*0B54
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[12:22] <amell> dont understand why im getting partial decodes
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> did it get banned?
[12:22] <Maxell> fsphil: we do have this nice 23cm fm voice repeater on one of the highest buildings of The Hague http://pi6hgl.nl/
[12:22] Action: Maxell would love to live there.
[12:22] <Maxell> amell: pulseaudio samplerate bug?
[12:22] <fsphil> nice view
[12:23] <fsphil> I must check the pulseaudio updates on fedora, my last quick test didn't show the bug
[12:24] <craag> Maxell: That's a bit of prime antenna real estate there!
[12:24] <craag> Lucky them. Mobile phone operators have bid us out of nearly all city repeater spots here.
[12:25] <amell> lot of noise here.
[12:25] <amell> poor discrimination
[12:26] <Maxell> craag: I do wonder if there are telcos up there so high
[12:26] <craag> Maxell: Would be good to have a vhf/uhf websdr up there
[12:26] <fsphil> I'd like to setup a websdr on the local hill
[12:27] <craag> You could do the internet link down to a house nearby
[12:27] <amell> $$BALXOLO.:7]\ z2;8,a1.y81311,-0.559756,CV6,10<2891,00*B69
[12:27] <fsphil> I've even got permission from a land owner to put up something
[12:27] <amell> seems very weak, others getting same?
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[12:29] <amell> lost it
[12:30] <Steve_G0TDJ> Very strong here - Shift has changed to 500Hz
[12:30] <amell> really weak, no discrim
[12:31] <G8APZ> +25dB/n here
[12:31] <amell> surprising as i am really close to it
[12:31] <amell> wondering if i have a null
[12:31] <Maxell> first green at 0,6 degrees
[12:31] <amell> can barely make out the line in the wf.
[12:32] <G8APZ> Under it can result in nulls
[12:32] <amell> not under
[12:32] <Maxell> More like 480 Hz shift
[12:32] <amell> well its gone
[12:34] <G8APZ> I must admit, it isn't as strong as I would expect at 14km high and 82km away
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[12:36] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm getting upper 20s in the s/n
[12:37] <amell> suddenly a lot louder here
[12:37] <amell> still not decoding though
[12:38] <amell> is there something wrong with the antenna?
[12:38] <fsphil> are you getting partials?
[12:38] <amell> yes
[12:38] <fsphil> does the shift match the signal?
[12:38] <amell> clean as mud on the waterfall
[12:40] <fsphil> paste us a screenshot
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[12:41] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/dzDMxCT.png
[12:41] <Ron_G8FJG> It's +50db over noise here down the bottom of my well... 30db s/n ,I'll try a FCD
[12:42] <amell> tried various gains, still getting partials
[12:42] <Steve_G0TDJ> You're a bit wide
[12:42] <amell> how do you mean?
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[12:42] <mattbrejza> need to lose some weight?
[12:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> The shift, needs to be down a little so the center of the red lines in the center of the brighterst part of the yellows
[12:43] <Ron_G8FJG> switched to FCD 27/28 s/n.... dont forget I told you I had an RTL that worked but only just..new one was fine
[12:43] <amell> 14-16 dB s/n
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[12:43] <Steve_G0TDJ> Also, receive filter bandwidth is fine on Auto (68)
[12:44] <amell> changed to 470 shift using custom
[12:44] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good
[12:44] <mattbrejza> youre not decoding an image on the sdr or something like htat?
[12:44] <amell> eh?
[12:44] <amell> im getting loads of partials so no
[12:44] <Maxell> Very drifty now
[12:44] <Maxell> Burst?
[12:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> Not yet, still climbing
[12:45] <amell> this is ridiculous, never had this much trouble getting a balloon
[12:45] <fsphil> that does look a bit weak amell
[12:45] <daveake> no
[12:45] <mattbrejza> the signal will appear both sides of the LO as the dongles are a bit shit, but one image will be much stronger than the other
[12:45] <Maxell> Yeah still climbing must have been some intresting winds blowing there
[12:45] <fsphil> can you also show us a screenshot of your SDR app
[12:45] <amell> this is through the habamp too!
[12:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> amell: Sometimes, it just doesn't work. Even with a near perfect signal.
[12:45] <mattbrejza> is it powered?
[12:45] <mattbrejza> the right way round?
[12:45] <amell> yes.
[12:46] Action: fsphil has his backwards once .. :/
[12:46] <amell> i wouldnt be getting partials if it was.
[12:46] <fsphil> someone didn't think of putting labels on the PCB. sheesh :)
[12:46] <mattbrejza> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_response
[12:48] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/rUnXduw.png
[12:48] <Maxell> RTTY filter bandwith. In what cases does it help to filddle with that?
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[12:48] <amell> i would normally be able to decode from a waterfall llike that
[12:49] <amell> its just not clear enough for some reason
[12:49] <Maxell> just for visual clearness you could turn up the number of ftt points drawn
[12:49] <amell> $$$$$BALYOL<r6y:48:37,52.017472,-0.6276'3,q8916\Y/07|>l00
[12:49] <amell> C65A
[12:49] <amell> "$$$BALYL_364,B8:52,52.017940,-0.627284,18992,6,2,2796,00*4787
[12:49] <amell> $$$$$BALYOLO,365,12:49:07,52.018393,-0>626932,11069,6,1,2795,00*9D20
[12:49] <amell> $$$$$BffX};]17,52
[12:49] <Maxell> does not help decoding does help finding the signal
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[12:50] <amell> thanks ye sthat does help, but i can hear rtty, so why the heck isnt it decoding.
[12:50] <Steve_G0TDJ> It's not a very robust mode.
[12:50] <amell> $$$$$BALYOLO,370,12:50:12,52.019970,-0.625942<19<32,7,1,2783,00*50D2
[12:50] <amell> $$$$$FALYOO,371,12:50:27,5:.020126,-0.625569,19488,7,9,2770,00*4064
[12:51] <Maxell> too much/too little gain?
[12:51] <amell> i would normally have no trouble at all decoding at this distance
[12:51] <amell> i think theres a noise issue somewhere.
[12:51] <Steve_G0TDJ> I was getting partials from the launch yesterday in Olivia and I couldn't see a thing on the w/f
[12:51] <mikestir-work> the snr on your fldigi waterfall didn't look very high for rtty
[12:51] <daveake> nope
[12:52] <daveake> Much clearer here and I'm much fiurther away
[12:52] <amell> basically im drowning in noise
[12:53] <Maxell> Too much gain!
[12:53] <Maxell> Try turning your gain down...
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[12:53] <amell> tried all sorts of gain.
[12:53] <amell> no difference
[12:53] <mattbrejza> a screen shot of the entire sdr bandwidth might be insightful
[12:56] <Maxell> amell: what gain
[12:56] <Maxell> not the audio gain
[12:56] <Maxell> 10db for audio is fine
[12:56] <Maxell> the lna gian
[12:56] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/j3HlBiH.png
[12:56] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/lPNJyd3.png
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[12:58] <Maxell> afk biking home
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[12:58] <fsphil> virtually no signal there at all
[12:58] <Steve_G0TDJ> Getting a bit ropey here
[12:58] <daveake> Yup. You have noise signals way stronger than the actual signal
[12:59] <mfa298> amell: what coax and how long between the antenna and habamp / rtlsdr.
[13:00] <amell> aircel 7, c. 20m between antenna and habamp, rtlsdr connected to habamp directly.
[13:00] <daveake> By way of comparison, and this is just a yagi in a window with the window frame detuning it, I have http://i.imgur.com/MfWFxNS.jpg
[13:00] <amell> thats strong
[13:00] <daveake> not really
[13:00] <fsphil> yea it could be better
[13:01] <fsphil> that's more like what I'd see here
[13:01] <daveake> It'd be much better with a decent aerial
[13:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Burst
[13:01] <fsphil> so there is definitly something not behaving itself in your setup
[13:01] <daveake> I have a building in the way at the mo, and a hill too
[13:01] <Ron_G8FJG> amell ,none of the signals look that strong..looks like a disconnected antenna.
[13:01] <daveake> ir dead habamp battery
[13:01] <mfa298> should only be about 3dB of loss in that cable. Although if you could get the habamp at the antenna end you might get some improvment.
[13:02] <daveake> Yeah at 3dB I'm not sure that's worth the bother
[13:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> Is there a chase?
[13:03] <daveake> burst
[13:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> ^^
[13:03] <daveake> saw a step and the alt is down now
[13:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> "[14:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Burst"
[13:03] <mfa298> the bigger question might be how much noise does the coax run pick up although for decent coax you'd hope it's fairly low.
[13:03] <fsphil> the helium is free!
[13:03] <daveake> ok I'm slow :p
[13:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> :D
[13:03] <fsphil> off to explore the universe
[13:04] <amell> disconnected habamp, much less noise
[13:05] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/Noq089d.png
[13:05] <amell> signal still too unclear to decode fully.
[13:06] <amell> dont understand it
[13:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> amell now it's coming down, the signal is not very good. Lots of variation
[13:07] <amell> it seems to be coming and going
[13:07] <Steve_G0TDJ> Yep, probably tumbling or spining
[13:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> Stabalising a little now
[13:11] <G8APZ> sigs seem much stronger on the descent
[13:12] <Steve_G0TDJ> About the same with me as ascent
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[13:14] <amell> with this exact same setup i can decode a bodnar down to 0 degrees horizon.
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[13:15] <daveake> Well the signal from the baloon is OK, though not as strong as I'd expect
[13:15] <daveake> So there has to be something up at your end
[13:15] <amell> why would i decode a bodnar easily and not this?
[13:16] <daveake> Something's different, ofc
[13:16] <daveake> why can I decode when I'm much further away?
[13:17] <Thommo> what balloon is yours daveake?
[13:17] <mfa298> The modes Leo uses on his balloons can potentially handle weaker signals easily (people see decodes of contessia when you can't even hear/see the signal but with rtty you tend to see/hear it before it can decode)
[13:17] <amell> my best guess is that balyolo is in a null of some kind.
[13:17] <daveake> Not really high enough for that
[13:17] <amell> remember i can hear the rtty is clear.
[13:17] <Thommo> balyolo is my friends balloon
[13:17] <daveake> They do have to be high and close, really
[13:18] <amell> i meant terrain null.
[13:18] <daveake> I had a pico flight go directly over me, within 150m horizontally. Saw a massive null but still decoded it all
[13:18] <daveake> Well yes you could have a hill in the way
[13:18] <daveake> Thought you might have mentioned that if so :p
[13:18] <amell> the problem doesnt seem to be noise so much now, it seems to be interrupted on each sentence.
[13:19] <daveake> S/N rather than noise
[13:21] <amell> http://i.imgur.com/vcCYXDM.png and http://i.imgur.com/1qtGmsB.png
[13:21] <amell> confounded
[13:21] <daveake> It'd help if you had the right shift
[13:21] <amell> 470
[13:22] <daveake> It's out by 20Hz
[13:22] <amell> 450?
[13:22] <daveake> You need the 2 red lines to line up with the yellow lines of the signal
[13:22] <amell> 450 now
[13:22] <Ron_G8FJG> amell something is broken there ! this is a FCD inside on 12" of wire $%BALYOLO,493,13:18:47,5f.057048,-0.564707,8;22,6,-10,2681,00
[13:23] <amell> it was advertised as 500! changed to 470, now 450 and now i have a good decode
[13:23] <amell> finally
[13:23] <daveake> They change with temperature
[13:23] <amell> decoding fine now.
[13:23] <Thommo> what info are you getting from it?
[13:23] <amell> daveake: you the man, you are approaching Leo in godliness.
[13:24] <daveake> You still have a poor signal; if you're using a TV dongle I recommend an FCD
[13:24] <daveake> I strive for "Approaching Leo"
[13:24] <daveake> It's as high as I can expect to get
[13:24] <amell> $$BALYOLO,516,13:24:07,52.077452,-0.542647,6261,6,-8,2668,00*69B4
[13:24] <amell> 450 is a long way from 500!
[13:24] <jonsowman> they all drift
[13:25] <jonsowman> it's pretty much a given
[13:25] <daveake> Yup
[13:25] <amell> yes, but 50hz?!
[13:25] <jonsowman> yes, that's quite typical
[13:25] <daveake> Perfectly normal
[13:25] <mattbrejza> if only there was a decoder which tracked the drift...
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[13:25] <daveake> lol mattbrejza
[13:25] <jonsowman> and didn't crash all the time
[13:25] <mattbrejza> na its fine on rtty mode
[13:25] <jonsowman> lol
[13:25] <daveake> I used such a decoder last time
[13:25] <amell> shouldnt need to keep going into custom.
[13:25] <daveake> mic listening to the Yaesu down below it in the dah
[13:25] <daveake> dash
[13:26] <daveake> Amazed how well it decoded
[13:26] <amell> getting perfect decodes now.
[13:26] <daveake> amell Set to custom and just leave the window open for adjustments
[13:26] <amell> surprised at the difference 20hz width makes
[13:26] <mattbrejza> the app needs a little work done to it really
[13:27] <daveake> It makes a big difference because you don't have much signal to play with
[13:27] <mfa298> daveake: I've used that same method of decoding in the car and it's surprisingly good
[13:27] <amell> so the problem, as Upu keeps telling me, is my £7 dongle.
[13:27] <daveake> I just told you that too
[13:27] <mattbrejza> shit reciever, shit signal
[13:27] <mattbrejza> and noone is suprised
[13:27] <daveake> mattbrejza My Nexus 7 doesn't appear to have a mic input on the audio jack, otherwise I'd make up a cable
[13:28] <amell> but it can track a B to 360km!
[13:28] <daveake> Nexus 4 might have it
[13:28] <amell> so it must either be good, or Leo has some special sauce.
[13:28] <mattbrejza> yea its annoying that audio in isnt particlarly standard, it doesnt work too well on my phone as it keeps switching between inputs
[13:29] <mattbrejza> the nexas phil flung off the top of his car had it
[13:29] <daveake> I'll probably hack an earpiece - stick some Sugru on it as a sort of mount to hold it on the Nexus
[13:29] <mfa298> amell: one thing to remember is that any amplifier is going to amplify both the signal and the noise so the s/n radio may not be much better. Getting the habamp nearer the antenna may help a bit (boosts the signals going into the coax so the loss and noise gained in the coax are less of an issue) but it still may not change things that much
[13:29] <daveake> fsphil Which Nexus did you destroy then? :p
[13:30] <mattbrejza> wrong phil
[13:30] <mfa298> in this case Phil == craag
[13:30] <daveake> Ah
[13:30] <daveake> Sorry I knew fs* had a Nexus
[13:31] <amell> Is there a chase for balyolo? I ask as it is getting temptingly close to me.
[13:31] <amell> I might go and get it if it has a got
[13:31] <daveake> There should be yes
[13:31] <amell> gopro.
[13:31] <jonsowman> why would that tempt you to go and get it?
[13:32] <amell> free gopro? :)
[13:32] <mattbrejza> if you want to chase after one launch one yourself ;)
[13:32] <jonsowman> I think you might have given yourself away by announcing that on irc
[13:32] <mattbrejza> or chase after a B-*
[13:32] <daveake> Now go and google "balyolo" :p
[13:32] <daveake> Or Yahoo
[13:33] <amell> probably accidentally stand on a B before finding it.
[13:33] <mattbrejza> youll help with coverage when it drifts over the arse end of nowhere
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[13:34] <amell> G8KNN will likely hear it down to the ground after me.
[13:35] <fsphil> I had several Nexusies
[13:35] <amell> hey hey, the shift has changed
[13:35] <fsphil> current one is the third
[13:36] <amell> 470 shift now
[13:37] <amell> signal now a lot stronger
[13:37] <amell> strange
[13:38] <amell> 480 shift
[13:38] <amell> 994
[13:40] <amell> lost at 645m
[13:40] <fsphil> not bad
[13:41] <amell> 645 was a partial
[13:43] <Thommo> there is a chase for balyolo
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[13:47] <Ron_G8FJG> anyone any idea why I got no Bearing, Distance or elevation readings on that flight?
[13:48] <fsphil> did you press Autoconfigure?
[13:48] <Ron_G8FJG> yes
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> did you set yur altitude?
[13:48] <fsphil> that's normally enough. that and having your local coordinates and altitude
[13:50] <Ron_G8FJG> I got a warning on the bottom line........ couldn't set stationary location: invalid float
[13:50] <fsphil> ah, you probably have a decimal point in it
[13:50] <fsphil> or characters in the lat or lng field
[13:50] <fsphil> they should just be numbers
[13:50] <fsphil> like 54.646 and -2.647
[13:51] <Ron_G8FJG> ok I'll check ok up to today
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[13:52] <fsphil> my random coordinates are near Penrith
[13:52] <fsphil> I've driven through that town
[13:52] <Ron_G8FJG> Doh,,, all info missing on listener location...thanks chaps
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[14:25] <Laurenceb_> is WG2 AA or AAA/
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> ?
[14:26] <aadamson> AAA
[14:26] <Laurenceb_> ah nice battery life then
[14:26] <aadamson> http://davidburchnavigation.blogspot.com/2012/09/relative-humidity-and-dew-point-as.html
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[14:27] <aadamson> been scratching my head trying to remember ice numbers from flying... ;)
[14:27] <aadamson> rime ice will develop in humid are at -20C
[14:27] <aadamson> s/are/air
[14:28] <aadamson> and metal antennas and probably metalic envelops are a rime ice magnet I would assume
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[14:30] <aadamson> unexplained clear air descents on pico would be attributed to water vapor + low temps = rime ice (can't rain at those temps)
[14:30] <aadamson> s/would/could
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[14:31] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/154545_trj001.gif
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> B-60 might be seen tomorrow if it avoided going north over russia (rain)
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> lots of rain predicted over japan
[14:32] <aadamson> ah so thats the predicted rainfall for a given path/time
[14:32] <Laurenceb_> yes
[14:32] <DL7AD> mikestir-work: my last floater had a lift about 0.8g :P
[14:33] <Laurenceb_> some of those tracks might reach Hawaii
[14:33] <aadamson> I wonder if there are *cloud base* prediction/maps anywhere?
[14:33] <aadamson> yeah I saw that,
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[14:33] <aadamson> problem with cloud base predictions are they would give you the lowest, not all... oh well, the joys of flying in the atmosphere
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[14:34] <aadamson> *with really low free lift* :)
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[14:35] <aadamson> I got some small foils, and I need to do my RainX tests on them.... now that I have new hardware up and functional
[14:36] <aadamson> RainX vs. Carnuba Wax :)
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[14:40] <aadamson> http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html - so this is interesting
[14:41] <aadamson> you can select the text list for eu
[14:41] <aadamson> click on the map for a location and it will give you temps/humidity etc at altitudes
[14:41] <aadamson> if you check the frost point calcs it will give you ice predictions
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[14:57] <astrobiologist> I have had a particularly bad day in the lab. could I please decompress by talking about HAB and ham radio?
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[14:59] <mattbrejza> providing bad day doesnt mean harmful pathogens have escaped :)
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[15:01] <astrobiologist> didn't even get that far... one of my suppliers has pulled a product, I will have to scrabble around for a replacement and reprogram everything on my robot around it
[15:01] <astrobiologist> it keeps bloody happening, every couple of years or so...
[15:02] <astrobiologist> so, I would really like to sit my next amateur radio exam. for those of you still at uni, the idea of someone desperate to do an exam might seem odd, but I really, really need a _productive_ challenge in my life!
[15:03] <mattbrejza> productive challenge could be making a hab payload?
[15:03] <mattbrejza> learn a new microcontroller?
[15:03] <mattbrejza> run a marathon?
[15:04] <astrobiologist> hmmm, make a hab payload using a picaxe (since it is good enough for on-orbit :-) and then chase it on a mountain bike with a magmount on the luggage rack, using your Android tracker app? :-)
[15:05] <nats`> uhhmmm add "having a mechanical heart implanted" in the middle
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[15:06] <astrobiologist> it would be an interesting but probably perverse challenge... take the bike on public transport as close as possible to the predicted landing site, and then track and chase from there? :-)
[15:07] <amell> balyolo recovered? anyone know?
[15:09] <mattbrejza> well there are some days when i bike recovery would work, but you would have to wait a while
[15:11] <astrobiologist> Depends where it comes down - in a national park with a lot of bridleways, it might be an advantage even
[15:12] <mattbrejza> you could launch a foil you dont intend to get back
[15:13] <astrobiologist> yes, that's what I have been thinking - launch over the sea and dunk it, to avoid any insurance issues
[15:14] <astrobiologist> if you design it to float on water, it might even turn up ashore sometime.
[15:14] <astrobiologist> 434 mhz buoys (like KRAKEN) are almost as much fun as HABs
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[15:19] <mfa298> amateur radio exam sounds a bit like a contradiction. more like amateur radio ticky box exercise.
[15:22] <astrobiologist> I'm not going to comment on the exams mfa298, all I can say is that personally I find the revision (inductance, reactance, transceiver design etc etc) quite fascinating. it has been far too long since I last studied any physics or electronics
[15:23] <astrobiologist> so I'm quite up for working my way through my intermediate and advanced exams - and I have plenty of HAB incentives to do so
[15:24] <astrobiologist> like possible 2m airborne aprs, if ofcom approves that, and being able to use my callsign in the U.S (where aprs is common for HAB)
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[15:36] <ProSpectre_2> afternoon gents
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[15:38] <ike> that is not fair exam for amateur
[15:41] <astrobiologist> how so ike? depending on the exam level there are practical assessments as well. I think each exam type in the U.K stretches you a bit more mentally
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[15:45] <ike> imagine if amateur in videos need exam too
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[15:46] <ike> that will be the end of the world as we know it
[15:46] <astrobiologist> but they're not transmitting on open frequencies using experimental equipment
[15:51] <mfa298> there's plenty of things you do as an amateur that needs some sort of test.
[15:52] <mfa298> or should we scrap driving lessons / test as well for everyone unless they're becoming a professional driver (Taxi/Bus/Lorry)
[15:52] <fsphil> or flying aircraft
[15:52] <fsphil> that can't be that difficult
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[16:06] <astrobiologist> if you get your foundation flying license fsphil, they let you run along the ground flapping yout arms ;-)
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[16:11] <mfa298> lol
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[16:27] <SA6BSS> If I want to flash a .ino file onto an atmega328p (smd solderd into place in circuit)must I use an aurdino (uno) as a programmer or will it work with a USBASP AVR Programmer
[16:30] <mfa298> if there's no bootloader on it then you'll need some sort of programmer and use the ISP header to program.
[16:30] <mfa298> You can get a AVRISP mkII to do that or I think you can use a arduino with a suitable sketch on it as a programmer
[16:31] <mfa298> (I got the AVRISP mkII a couple of years ago to do non Arduino stuff so I tend to just use that for arduino stuff as well.
[16:31] <mfa298> there are some other programmers out there as well although I don't know what they're like
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[16:33] <SA6BSS> ok, then uno looks like the cheapest way to go :) Have to read some more, verry confusing.
[16:35] <jonsowman> SA6BSS: does it already have the arduino bootloader?
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[16:37] <SA6BSS> I dont know.
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[16:39] <SA6BSS> Dony think so
[16:40] <mfa298> The other option is to get a bootloader on it and then you can program it over the uart
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[16:42] <SA6BSS> Yep, it sems so, as soon there is a booloader on the chip you can use almost anything to program it
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[16:54] <mikestir-work> Laurenceb_: I missed your question about the battery earlier. I'm hoping it will be good until tomorrow morning
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> ok
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[16:55] <mikestir-work> by which point I guess it will be out of range
[16:55] <mikestir-work> unless I can raise some Ukrainian or Russian hams on HF when I get in :)
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> what processor are you using?
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[17:05] <amell> astrobiologist: hows the search for extraterrestrials going?
[17:07] <daveake> We get one or two login here each year
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[17:08] <astrobiologist> daveake ur too bad :-)
[17:09] <amell> btw, tonight i need to solder 3xAAAs lithiums in series - any tips? worried about the batteries getting too hot.
[17:09] <daveake> Just do it quickly
[17:10] <daveake> Hot iron + large bit + scrape the surface
[17:10] <amell> sand and flux?
[17:11] <chrisstubbs> Yeah just key the surface with a file or some sandpaper
[17:11] <daveake> sand or the closest sharp object - screwdriver or wire cutters
[17:11] <amell> chrisstubbs: you can guess what for ;)
[17:12] <myself> scuff the surface, hot iron, lots of flux, get it tinned and STOP. Let it cool. Take a minute. Do the others. Tin the wire.
[17:12] <myself> THEN come back and reheat the pool, let it flow around the wire, and you're done.
[17:12] <chrisstubbs> Yep that sounds about right
[17:12] <amell> ok. so basically scruff, tin quickly and wait then just tap it all together
[17:12] <myself> But don't try to do the tinning and connection in one step, it takes an extra second, and that's too much heat duration all at once.
[17:13] <myself> but yeah, tin both pieces, then join 'em. Like everything.
[17:13] <chrisstubbs> Im off out for dinner, good luck with the launch amell, I will keep an eye on snus ;)
[17:13] <amell> relying on you to do the docs.
[17:13] <amell> i guess i could try and figure it out
[17:15] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, he's using an M0(might be a +) freescale
[17:15] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, can't remember the model number
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[17:16] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, one of these guys I believe - http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?code=KINETIS_L_SERIES
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> interesting, thanks
[17:18] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, - http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/DSC_2396.JPG
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[17:21] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, I think specifically it's an mkl05 variant
[17:21] <Laurenceb_> right
[17:22] <amell> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=6ef6b5dc1bbbfa74bcdd1aaf024953ac3fc73e18 looks like an interesting path
[17:22] <amell> a circle over stansted?
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[17:22] <aadamson> 2.0v vcc, no tcxo, mcp1640 powersupply I believe, running 4mW olivia 8/1000
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[17:32] <mikestir> Laurenceb_: there's details on my site, but I think aadamson answered for me
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[17:32] <mikestir> it's M0+
[17:34] <aadamson> doing great mikestir as well!
[17:34] <aadamson> congrats
[17:36] <aadamson> was a little worried when I went to bed at midnight EDT
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[17:40] <mikestir> yeah I'm really pleased with it
[17:40] <mikestir> would be really good to get some more trackers
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[17:41] <mikestir> it would be a shame to lose contact with it before the battery packs in
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[17:44] <Steve_M6SNK> SA6BSS: I use my raspi to progam at atmega328p
[17:44] <Steve_M6SNK> Its hooked up via that spi interface
[17:46] <Steve_M6SNK> I've put a 26 pin header on my tracker which is based around the avr so I can program it as well as read the serial output from it
[17:46] <mikestir> why so many pins?!
[17:47] <Steve_M6SNK> Means I can control the pi camera in fligjt
[17:47] <Steve_M6SNK> Raspi gpio header
[17:48] <mikestir> oh I see
[17:48] <Steve_M6SNK> I could have used less
[17:48] <mikestir> that's fair enough then!
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[17:48] <bertrik> very nice to see WG2 doing so well :)
[17:49] <mikestir> I know. needs more coverage in ukraine though
[17:49] <amell> mikestir: solar panels on your next? Leo needs competition.
[17:50] <mikestir> I think aprs first
[17:50] <amell> oh? youre doing well for trackers without aprs
[17:50] <mikestir> but that would probably be a respin anyway so yeah maybe solar
[17:51] <mikestir> central and eastern europe seems to be quite well covered by hams with dl-fldigi
[17:51] <mikestir> but it's about to get to the point where aprs would have been nice
[17:51] <amell> nice to see a lot of dl-fldigi in slovakia
[17:53] <mikestir> I guess it will be approaching sunset soon
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[17:55] <mikestir> 20 minutes
[17:55] <mikestir> bit more up there I suppose
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[18:10] <SA6BSS> tnx for the input, I think my brother have one pi laying around...
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[18:18] <astrobiologist> hello
[18:18] <FuzzyLemon_> I have no idea what happened to BALYOLO in the last 645m before it hit the ground
[18:19] <FuzzyLemon_> I am pretty sure it landed in a huge field of very tall wheat
[18:19] <FuzzyLemon_> but after 3 hours of searching I couldn't find it
[18:20] <FuzzyLemon_> our SMS tracker didn't work and that usually pinpoints it to within a 2m radius
[18:21] <FuzzyLemon_> I don't think there was any signal where it landed. what's the best way of finding it now?
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[18:23] <jonsowman> if you were that close couldn't you hear the RTTY beacon?
[18:25] <FuzzyLemon_> i didn't have anything on me to track it with
[18:26] <fsphil> :/
[18:26] <daveake> Didn't anyone chase with a radio and means to decode?
[18:27] <daveake> amell Was thinking of going out but only if he gets to keep the GoPro :p
[18:29] <mikestir> wg2 getting chilly. must be night
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[18:31] <jonsowman> FuzzyLemon_: the chase team didn't take tracking kit with them?!
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[18:32] <mfa298> having working tracking kit at the launch site and in the chase vehicle should really be rule #3 of habbing
[18:33] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[18:33] <fsphil> #1
[18:33] <mfa298> I was leaving rule #1 for you don't talk about habbing
[18:33] <fsphil> if you can't track it there's no point
[18:33] <jcoxon> Evening all
[18:33] <mfa298> and rule #2 for you DONT talk about habbing
[18:33] <jonsowman> good evening jcoxon
[18:33] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> that makes them just "a team" [19:31] <jonsowman> FuzzyLemon_: the chase team didn't take tracking kit with them?!
[18:34] <jcoxon> anyone considering coming to the conference this year and hasn't signed up...
[18:34] <jonsowman> true LeoBodnar
[18:35] <jcoxon> hurry up!
[18:35] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2014
[18:35] <amell> back
[18:35] <Maxell> mfa298: bwhahah too bad did yesterday at radioclub :P
[18:35] <amell> is balyolo there for the taking?
[18:35] <jonsowman> if you can find it
[18:36] <amell> how long were the batteries expected to last?
[18:36] <daveake> I shall quote from http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chasing_your_flight ... "This may sound obvious, but take a suitable SSB UHF radio with you. If you don't you might as well stay at home."
[18:36] <amell> i cant leave house now as wife is out. i could potentially go out later when dark.
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[18:36] <Maxell> daveake: nice, yet painfull
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[18:37] <amell> corn field under cover of darkness? :)
[18:37] <astrobiologist> is this like "children of the corn"?
[18:37] <aadamson> watch for spiders - I hear they are HUGE in corn fields at night!
[18:37] <amell> lol
[18:37] <fsphil> "Many people went into dem fields, NEVER came back" </devon farmer accent>
[18:38] <astrobiologist> I've registered jcoxon. are you low on bums on seats?
[18:38] <jcoxon> no no
[18:38] <jcoxon> but the more the merrier
[18:38] <jcoxon> and you often need to kick people a little
[18:38] <FuzzyLemon_> the SMS tracker worked a treat in the last 3 out of 4 flights
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[18:38] <amell> FuzzyLemon_ have you given up on this payload? whats the expected battery life?
[18:38] <aadamson> daveake, Upu pie in the sky any closer to prime time? got some guys over here wanting to do similar
[18:38] <astrobiologist> got enough speakers?
[18:38] <amell> you cant guarantee GSM reception
[18:38] <fsphil> FuzzyLemon_: better than usual that. it's usually about 50/50
[18:38] <jcoxon> astrobiologist, yeah pretty set there
[18:39] <FuzzyLemon_> i would very much like to find it again
[18:39] <daveake> aadamson Follow @pitsproject
[18:39] <amell> fuzzylemon_: where are you now?
[18:39] <jonsowman> FuzzyLemon_: it should be there as a backup, not as primary!
[18:39] <aadamson> thanks daveake
[18:39] <daveake> Boards+components sent off to manufacture today
[18:39] <aadamson> mikestir, you still here?
[18:39] <daveake> source code on github
[18:39] <aadamson> that's the magic voltage usually
[18:40] <astrobiologist> jcoxon: was there decent interest in the foundation exam this year?
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[18:40] <LeoBodnar> what is the "magic voltage"?
[18:40] <jcoxon> astrobiologist, not sure - i'm not involved in that
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[18:40] <Maxell> FuzzyLemon_: you sure goofed up on the tracking part :(
[18:40] <fsphil> craag would know better
[18:40] <amell> balyolo about 30 mins drive from me
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[18:41] <aadamson> 1.3v on a litium, but just noticed that it's also at -30C so it's probably still got capacity
[18:41] <fsphil> jcoxon: you ever get much done with that little stm32 board?
[18:41] <amell> fuzzylemon_: have you gone home or?
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> well spotted aadamson
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[18:42] <amell> fuzzylemon_: it is critical we find out how long the battery is expected to last. can you find out?
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[18:42] <jcoxon> fsphil, which one! f4discovery?
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[18:42] <amell> i can go and get it in the morning, if necessary.
[18:42] <FuzzyLemon_> last time it was about 48 hours. it had 2 x1.5v lithiums
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[18:43] <fsphil> the teensy I think it was
[18:43] <amell> so it can wait until the morning
[18:43] <jcoxon> oh yeah i've got a payload of that
[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:43] <jcoxon> but i've been playing with LPC810
[18:43] <jcoxon> and getting it working as a UKHASnet node
[18:43] <jonsowman> oh yes I saw your github repo jcoxon
[18:43] <jcoxon> required writing quite a lot from scratch
[18:43] <jonsowman> how's that going?
[18:44] <FuzzyLemon_> yes it will be working in the morning
[18:44] <amell> do you have a mobile tracker?
[18:44] <FuzzyLemon_> but it might rain tomorrow
[18:44] <jcoxon> yeah i've got the lpc810 doing RFM69 chat and also repeating
[18:44] <jonsowman> cool
[18:44] <fsphil> easy enough to program from osx?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> I found an article on HAB in an american HAM journal, and the person who wrote it had an interesting way to scale his sensor outputs to fit to the 3.3V micro he uses
[18:44] <jcoxon> http://www.ukhas.net/nodeInfo?id=55
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> he uses OpAmp subtractors
[18:44] <jonsowman> are they particularly cheap?
[18:44] <amell> rain? surely your payload is waterproof?
[18:44] <jcoxon> jonsowman, 67p
[18:44] <fsphil> hah
[18:44] <jonsowman> nice
[18:45] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah once i got the arm gcc compiled
[18:45] <FuzzyLemon_> yes it is but i don't like getting wet
[18:45] <jonsowman> though the stm32 we're using on the ukhas badge is 77p jcoxon ;)
[18:45] <fsphil> compiling arm gcc is not fun
[18:45] <jcoxon> yeah but it ain't an 8dip
[18:45] <jonsowman> true
[18:45] <jcoxon> hehe
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[18:45] <fsphil> cute
[18:45] <amell> youd exchange a gopro to avoid getting wet? hmm!
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[18:46] <FuzzyLemon_> i have an ezcap dongle and a laptop, is that a 'mobile tracker'
[18:46] <FuzzyLemon_> ?
[18:46] <amell> uh uh
[18:46] <jcoxon> eek
[18:46] <fsphil> at least they warned us
[18:46] <amell> fuzzylemon_: yes if you have an antenna
[18:46] <fsphil> and a car
[18:46] <FuzzyLemon_> yes!
[18:46] <amell> fuzzylemon_: where are you right now?
[18:46] <FuzzyLemon_> at home
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[18:46] <amell> which is&?
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[18:46] <FuzzyLemon_> buckinghamshire
[18:46] <fsphil> FuzzyLemon_: at leasat get out on site and try and get a position
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[18:47] <fsphil> even if you just get coordinates, and return the next day to find it
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> 67p or 1.67 is irrelevant unless you are making 100+
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[18:47] <ProSpectre_2> Lunar_Lander what journal was it?
[18:47] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, the key is i've had fun
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> one hour of doing nowt is paid at £6.31 in the UK
[18:47] <jcoxon> and learnt some stuff
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> one second
[18:47] <jcoxon> i think
[18:47] <FuzzyLemon_> ok. but I'm taking by waterproof jacket
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[18:47] <fsphil> the discovery boards have been very ackward for me, but it is at least working now
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> "QEX"
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> oh cool, that's much more solid reason :D
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[18:48] <jonsowman> what are the libraries etc like for the LPC?
[18:48] <amell> just found millbrook proving ground is near there, looks interesting on GE!
[18:48] <ProSpectre_2> is it an online magazine?
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[18:48] <jonsowman> i don't know whether that's better or worse than the ST libs which are dreadful
[18:48] <jcoxon> i've 'written' an spi and uart lib
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[18:48] <amell> fuzzylemon_: how long to drive there?
[18:48] <jcoxon> jonsowman, oh its got cmsis
[18:49] <FuzzyLemon_> 50 mins
[18:49] <daveake> do it
[18:49] <daveake> You just need to get a position
[18:49] <fsphil> you may even find it's not far into the field
[18:49] <astrobiologist> I have decided, personally, that if picaxes are good enough TO GO INTO SPACE, I will start with those...
[18:49] <arko> nearspace
[18:49] Action: fsphil steps away from astrobiologist
[18:49] <daveake> If it is in field of tall stuff you'll get a signal from maybe more than a mile away
[18:50] <amell> daveake: it wasnt particularly strong in the first place
[18:50] <daveake> apollo got into space but I wouldn't use their flight computer on a hab
[18:50] <aadamson> jcoxon, did you look at these - http://libopencm3.org/wiki/Main_Page?
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[18:50] <jonsowman> not sure if it supports the 810 aadamson
[18:50] <daveake> amell it was plenty strong enough to rx on the ground from the nearest road
[18:50] <jcoxon> adamgreig, oh yeah
[18:50] <amell> I will go and get it, but its 30 mins away, and fuel costs.
[18:51] <jcoxon> but actually i've done the work
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[18:51] <aadamson> yeah that's the problem with their site, the what they support is way out of date usually :(
[18:51] <daveake> amell free gopro :p
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[18:51] <amell> daveake: yes, for a gopro id do it.
[18:51] <amell> hab hunter for hire?
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[18:52] <FuzzyLemon_> how much?
[18:52] <jonsowman> 1 gopro
[18:52] <jonsowman> :P
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> woven core memory went into space, start with that
[18:52] <jonsowman> (I'd suggest haggling)
[18:52] <amell> theres a small chance it has gone into a wood.
[18:52] <jcoxon> fsphil, https://github.com/jamescoxon/LPC810
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[18:53] <fsphil> that doesn't look bad at all
[18:53] <amell> fuzzylemon_: what is the payload? is it a school project?
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[18:53] <astrobiologist> for a really portable habhunting rig, you could try a kenwood TH-F7E, an android phone with Matt's tracking and decoding app (or a Blackberry os10 phone with my port of Matt's app)
[18:53] <FuzzyLemon_> it was a practice launch for next week
[18:54] <amell> who is bankrolling it? the school?
[18:55] <aadamson> jonsowman, guess you could go mbed, seems they have 810 support :) arduino code lives another day...
[18:55] <amell> I will go and get it if theres someone to invoice.
[18:55] <FuzzyLemon_> no work. its r&d for an educational outreach project
[18:55] <jonsowman> I'll stick with stm32 aadamson
[18:55] <mikestir> jcoxon: how come you compiled the arm compiler?
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[18:55] <aadamson> hehe
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[18:55] <daveake> seriously, you need to know how to recover these things before you try educating people on it
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[18:56] <jcoxon> mikestir, i don't think i did, there are binaries
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[18:56] <FuzzyLemon_> yep that's why we're practising
[18:56] <mikestir> I use the linaro binaries. they seem fine
[18:56] <jcoxon> i actually don't remember
[18:56] <fsphil> most distros have pre-packaged arm-gcc compilers these days
[18:56] <daveake> Well, reading the wiki would help you practice effectively
[18:56] <jcoxon> i got it setup when playing with the f4discovery boards
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[18:56] <mikestir> I think last time I tried a distro arm-gcc it didn't support cortex M
[18:57] <jcoxon> and convienetly it worked for lpc810
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> what is outreach?
[18:57] <daveake> e.g. that page I referenced earlier. Which I wrote. And sometimes I wonder why I bothered.
[18:57] <aadamson> https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded - this one is supported by arm employees
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> hasn't had any outreach daveake
[18:57] <daveake> I know I'm sounding shirty, but that flight used a known good tracker and should not be lost
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[18:58] <amell> fuzzylemon_: see your PM for a commercial proposal.
[18:58] <FuzzyLemon_> sorry. I'm going to search for it as soon as i can find my waterproof
[18:58] <daveake> good stuff
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[18:58] <amell> good
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[18:58] <FuzzyLemon_> if i don't find it then my PM will give amell £50 to help us
[18:59] <amell> fine. all depends on the battery.
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> I am going to make a tracker running FORTRAN IV
[18:59] <amell> Leobodnar: good luck with the fortran aprs.
[19:00] <FuzzyLemon_> great. and i found my waterproof!
[19:00] <fsphil> bit of rain won't hurt you :)
[19:00] <amell> off you go.
[19:00] <aadamson> let's see, Google is supposed to have a realtime map satellite now, so just set in the dry and watch for the object to appear ... lol
[19:00] <daveake> Get a fix, then see if it's easily recoverable
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[19:00] <amell> if you get really stuck ping me again and i will come out with laptop.
[19:00] <daveake> Call in here if you get stuck
[19:00] <astrobiologist> seriously, I wish there was a FORTH microcontroller
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[19:01] <aadamson> there are.
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: there was
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> and there will be
[19:01] <amell> i reckon its 90% chance in the cornfield, but possibly might have entered the wood.
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: but there are lots and lots of forth interpreters for processors out there
[19:01] <daveake> stacks of forth chips
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: ##embedded should be able to link you to some
[19:02] <astrobiologist> tell me more SpeedEvil - I couldn't find any, just a half-finished PIC project
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[19:02] <aadamson> I thought Laurenceb_ posted this here - http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=75
[19:02] <aadamson> http://www.greenarraychips.com/
[19:02] <aadamson> bunch of them actually]
[19:02] <astrobiologist> sorry for not replying privately SpeedEvil but I can't get it to work on my IRC client
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> Replies work poorly on this client.
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> I may not see them
[19:04] <astrobiologist> Crikes, a 40 core microcontroller and a 144 core one??
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[19:04] <astrobiologist> why are these using forth?
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> FuzzyLemon_ what was you plan if there were no trackers today at all?
[19:05] <aadamson> I guess because you can...
[19:05] <amell> LeoBodnar: charge the loss to the project i guess...
[19:05] <aadamson> apparently the guy who started greearraychips, was originally a forth nut at intellasys
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[19:06] <mattbrejza> FuzzyLemon_: so did you look at the location the predicition was giving?
[19:06] <aadamson> astrobiologist, this is old I'm sure - http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?ForthBoards
[19:06] <astrobiologist> I like how starkly you access the stack, so everything is pared right down
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[19:07] <aadamson> can roll your own as well - http://hackaday.com/2013/10/12/a-simple-forth-development-board/
[19:07] <astrobiologist> and there is no mucking about with memory allocations etc - it's whatever you can fit on the stack (or pass back onto it)
[19:07] <aadamson> google is your friend... forth microcontroller gets you all kinds of information
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[19:09] <astrobiologist> that's the weird thing aadamson, I did have a bit of a hunt.
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.html
[19:09] <astrobiologist> don't know how I missed all this
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> wtf export controlled O_o
[19:09] <daveake> When I used FORTH, the limiting factor was the stack in my head
[19:10] Action: SpeedEvil passes daveake a neck brace.
[19:11] <amell> http://flashforth.sourceforge.net
[19:11] <amell> exciting. we can break new ground here.
[19:11] <astrobiologist> I was also looking at using FPGAs, but they don't have ADCs
[19:12] <astrobiologist> flashforth rings a bell. but what I want to avoid is using a language but which you then have to call something in assembler etc to call something not programmed yet (like ADCs etc)
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> on a HAB?
[19:13] <astrobiologist> What's the point then? might as well use assembler or C etc throughout
[19:13] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar, basically I can't get my head around C. Picaxes are useful and have a very easy version of basic, but are limited
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> use assembly
[19:13] <mattbrejza> im afraid there is no picaxe for fpgas
[19:14] <amell> lol
[19:14] <arko> hahaha
[19:14] <daveake> Then when you get fed up of assembler, C will be much easier than it is now :)
[19:14] <mattbrejza> verilog is pretty much at teh same level as assembler
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> you can simulate PIC16 on FPGA and run picaxe on it
[19:14] <fsphil> lower than assembler
[19:14] <jonsowman> you could also stab yourself in the eye with forks
[19:14] <astrobiologist> so what instead? So, yes, forth looks pretty good, even assembler looks not impossible (there was a maplin booklet for PICs) or something like FPGAs which could be "programmed" as a logic flowchart from something like labview or matlab
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> but what's the point?
[19:15] <aadamson> sounds like a stick of dynamite to erradicate the ant pile
[19:15] <LeoBodnar> just buy Habduino, launch it and let others track and lose it
[19:15] <aadamson> change the subject, and update on isee3 today?
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> blew up
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> /troll
[19:16] <aadamson> appropriate given the dynamite
[19:16] <jonsowman> DSN pass shortly aadamson
[19:16] <astrobiologist> damn shame!!
[19:16] <aadamson> ah very cool... sounds like yesterday they figured out what they tried was doomed from the beginning
[19:17] <aadamson> (after the fact analysis)
[19:17] <astrobiologist> could use habduino but would need C anyway, no?
[19:17] <jonsowman> aadamson: yeah I think so
[19:17] <jonsowman> not sure exactly what happened though
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[19:17] <astrobiologist> or the new picaxe board that our satellite-launching colleague (name escapes me) got to work IN SPACE, so can't be that bad!
[19:17] <mattbrejza> yea but its already written, so you could just launch, or use it as a good starting point to add your own code
[19:18] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza what does the user have to supply or set then, for instance to select the frequency?
[19:18] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: im saying this from experience on not just the picaxe bashing bandwagon, programming something of reasonable size is not a pleasent experince.
[19:18] <amell> did anyone get any partials below 645m for balyolo?
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[19:19] <mattbrejza> there is no reason why a picaxe would be bad from an electrical point of view, its just a pic, but they are truly painful to program
[19:19] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza you are probably right; I can see the limitations.
[19:19] <jonsowman> mattbrejza speaks from experience
[19:20] <astrobiologist> on the other hand, just like a habduino, all the hard work has been done now
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> that 50pencesat brought the bar so low that i am struggling to come up with any shit that is worse and is worth sending to space
[19:20] <mattbrejza> astrobiologist: you just need to change the text at the top of the code and press the download button
[19:20] <mattbrejza> but doesnt that kinda destory the point of doing this?
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> it's more of a kitschsat
[19:21] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza I would like to congratulate all concerned for making excellent habduinos, or picaxe trackers come to that
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[19:21] <daveake> I think today's flight shows the danger with just buying a solution and not understanding it
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> it's a race to create the ugliest piece of hardware that defies any modern standards of anything
[19:21] <jonsowman> s/congratulate/console/
[19:21] <astrobiologist> the added value for me would be a good science payload
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[19:22] <astrobiologist> I need a good tracker first, obviously, and then to work out the complicated mechanics of my payload
[19:22] <mattbrejza> well if you create the science part you might find someone to do the tracking part
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[19:23] <LeoBodnar> you can solder GPS serial output to an 434 transmitter input and launch just that if you despise programming
[19:23] <astrobiologist> which is taking so long that I want to do something like my intermediate radio exam or build my own tracker first to blod off speed!
[19:23] <astrobiologist> I don't despite it LeoBodnar, I'm just no good at it and have not really enough time to practice
[19:23] <mattbrejza> tbh you might as well just go ahead and play around with a picaxe rather than discussing if its a bad idea on irc for a few months
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> in fact this would be the satellite i would launch
[19:24] <astrobiologist> sorry mattbrejza, like I said earlier in the day, baaad day in the lab
[19:25] <mattbrejza> oh right yea, you let loose several genetically engineered mutant monkeys
[19:26] <astrobiologist> and I am not averse to trying something a bit odd like forth of the fpgas. I read about the latter in makemag. basically you describe a logical process, in matlab or similar, press a button, and the fpga wires itself to that algorithm. damn damn cook
[19:26] <fsphil> alien monkeys
[19:27] <astrobiologist> forth or the FPGAS. damn damn cool. otherwise sounds odd
[19:27] <ak4rp> hi, could somebody approve a flight doc?
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[19:29] <aadamson> ak4rp, post it in #habhub, I'm sure someone will catch it there, that's what most do, they will want the doc number
[19:30] <mfa298__> I think there's been a few habduinos lost that prove this! 20:21 < daveake> I think today's flight shows the danger with just buying a solution and not understanding it
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[19:33] <LeoBodnar> i still recommend just soldering together a GPS and TX module
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> if you can do that of course
[19:34] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, habitat accepts nmea strings if i remember correctly
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> i don't think it will come to that
[19:34] <astrobiologist> LeoBodnar, here's something I had been thinking... as I understand it, Manchester coding is clock-independent - i.e you can work out what the original clock frequency was from the bitstream
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[19:35] <astrobiologist> does that mean that ANY modulation would work, even if the wrong one was selected?
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> absolutely
[19:36] <astrobiologist> if your receiver is on the wrong modulation, you hear something heavily distorted, but all you need for manchester is to hear the transition from one bit to the next
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> correct
[19:38] <astrobiologist> so what does RTTY or FM etc buy you over and above this, for habbing?
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> not much - it is just resistance to changes
[19:39] <mattbrejza> :///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> we should be all using Manchester really
[19:39] <mfa298> FM (over SSB) should give you something more stable (you'de be sending audio tones rather than shifting the carrier frequency) at the expense of where the power goes
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> but still clinging to old ways
[19:41] <astrobiologist> I'd be up for testing it one day, but only if there would be a way to decode it in fl-fldigi
[19:41] <astrobiologist> otherwise it would just be me in a field with an handheld yagi somewhere
[19:42] <LeoBodnar> not a bad place to be
[19:42] <astrobiologist> I'd rather be there with my wife, a tent, no-one else for miles around, and a "do not disturb" sign
[19:43] <fsphil> who would read it
[19:43] <astrobiologist> but failing that, yes, a yagi and a handie, and someway of decoding the stream. and somebody else's tracker too in case it goes tits up. oops bad choice of words
[19:44] <jcoxon> moving on
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[19:47] <astrobiologist> and some way of tuning my antenna if it wasn't big enough
[19:54] <Maxell> daveake: "just buying a solution and not understanding it" Yes, sure. It's a pricey mistake. Or even dangarous mistake. People - make - mistakes. It happens!
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[19:55] <LeoBodnar> somebody somewhere must be benefitting from mistakes
[19:55] <HA7018> Hi!
[19:56] <Maxell> hello HA7018
[19:56] <fsphil> ahoy there
[19:56] <daveake> 4 mistakes in a roy Maxell
[19:56] <daveake> row
[19:57] <HA7018> Does someone know a good mobile tracker for Android?
[19:57] <Maxell> daveake: all habdruino?
[19:57] <daveake> Don't think the first one was
[19:58] <astrobiologist> HA7018, mattbrejza programmed an excellent one. it even decodes received transmissions through the audio port
[19:58] <Maxell> HA7018: like this one? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem
[19:58] <daveake> Not listening to advice here being the main problem. Anyway, I've made my thoughts clear. Maybe their next flight will be tracked, by them, all the way through.
[19:59] <Maxell> daveake: I hear the same thing in the radio amateur world with all these all mode all band rigs.
[19:59] <ProSpectre> any prdictions for algeria vs. russia?
[20:00] <Maxell> But if Yaesu did not made such nice hardware already for me I might have never learned so much about amateur radio
[20:00] <astrobiologist> if they didn't have their own receiver, who was guiding them in? were they relying on spacenear.us alone over 3G?
[20:00] <HA7018> astrobiologist, Maxell: I downloaded that before, but I found two things: 1st: I cannot choose any payload, the select payload window is empty
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[20:00] <HA7018> 2nd It only knows 50 and 300 baud :(
[20:01] <astrobiologist> ha7018, odd, it worked on my blackberry, and given that was a strange android-blackberry port there was no reason it should have! i
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[20:03] <astrobiologist> http://37.media.tumblr.com/9924eec58034551fdfce7141b680fc6e/tumblr_n7izlxMSfh1tc1smjo1_1280.jpg
[20:03] <LZ1DEV> 1/fq 6
[20:04] <astrobiologist> Me stalking the streets of London with my handheld and a throat mike... I got photographed by a someone collecting photos of weird londoners...
[20:04] <HA7018> astrobiologist: How should it work when I press the Plus sign over the map. I get an input text box labeled 'Select Payload'. Under that an 'look back X days Y hours' input. I can write ANYTHING in the Payload text box, but no list apears
[20:05] <HA7018> astrobiologist: The softwer communicates with the server, because after starting it, I appear on the map with a car icon
[20:06] <astrobiologist> I am not sure ha7018, I haven't used it for a while. I know you have to have gps on already to get your own location to appear
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[20:06] <HA7018> What radio did you use on the pic?
[20:09] <mfa298> HA7018: I've just tested it with my phone (HTC One) and it seems to work. It looks like you need to type in the first couple of letters of the callsign (I used BA for BALLYOLO)
[20:09] <HA7018> ooops... wrong command
[20:09] <HA7018> mfa298: Great! It works! Thankyou
[20:10] <DL7AD> good evening
[20:10] <astrobiologist> Kenwood TH-F7E. it can transmit fm on 2m and 70cm. it can receive in just about anything from 0.1Mhz to 1.2Gz and any mode (fm, usb, lsb, am, cw....). so good for learning amateur radio and also hab
[20:11] <mfa298> and I think currently it only does 50 and 300bd rtty as that's what 99% of the UK flights are (ignoring Leo's balloons) and that's 100% more decoding options than any other HAB tracking app
[20:11] <HA7018> Hmmm, I didn't know, that allmodes handheld radio exists
[20:13] <mfa298> HA7018: there's a couple that do all mode rx (There's a Yeasu from the same sort of time frame and possibly an alinco) although they're not as sensitive (or easy to use) as something like the FT817
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[20:13] <HA7018> mfa298: Okay, than I'l wait for an 50baud flight which flies herewards :)
[20:14] <mfa298> I've not come accross a hand held that does all mode tx yet (The FT817 is the closest to being handheld and all most)
[20:14] <astrobiologist> all a bit pointless in London right now as qrm (or qrn?) still very intense... can hear repeaters just about but not open them
[20:15] <HA7018> I'm trying to make a chase/receive/track setup in my car, and I don't want to build my FT857 and laptop in car. So now I'm trying to find suitable Android software (that on I found, thanks to you), and some RX rig.
[20:16] <astrobiologist> I was going to go for th-f7e and android app, with a magmount perhaps... but have never actually done it.
[20:16] <mclane_> Did you consider a windoze tablet + fcd?
[20:17] <HA7018> A planned to use SDRTouch, but now I will read after some handhelds
[20:17] <HA7018> mclane_: It must be cheap as possible...
[20:17] <astrobiologist> I got mine for 90 gbp on ebay.
[20:17] <HA7018> So the my wallet cannot afford a new tablet and fcd right now
[20:18] <HA7018> 90gps sounds good
[20:18] <HA7018> gps=gbp
[20:18] <HA7018> too tired...
[20:18] <mfa298> buying a netbook would probably be cheaper than getting a suitable windows tablet and then you can run dl-fldigi etc.
[20:19] <mfa298> there's a few wideband allmode scanners around as well, There's a list of some of them on the wiki
[20:19] <mclane_> Ive got a dell enue 8 pro for 250 EUR which does the job (sdr# + dlfldigi)
[20:20] <mfa298> see http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
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[20:22] <HA7018> And in other point of view it must be small and light as possible. I park my car sometimes in areas where people doesn't leave expensive stuff visible :-)
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[20:23] <HA7018> Theese are why I tried to use android and some RTLSDR (I already hace a phone) cheapness and 'mobility'
[20:23] <astrobiologist> th-f7e is very small, I take it with me everywhere. I am not quite sure how to match an antenna to it. I have experimented with various whips, telescopic antennae but the swr can be terrible
[20:24] <HA7018> But thanks for the advices, this TH-F7E heleped me a lot!
[20:24] <HA7018> -e
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[20:25] <astrobiologist> but then people on this irc have explained to me that it is not really a standard 50 ohm match, since you as the user are the earth, and it is matched to the likely impedance of you holding the antenna
[20:25] <astrobiologist> so how to use it with a yagi or magmount with an sma connector... who knows. would love to hear if people get it to work
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[20:25] <adamgreig> uhm
[20:26] <adamgreig> it's a 50 ohm match
[20:26] <adamgreig> make a 50 ohm antenna
[20:26] <mfa298> with a yagi or other complete antenna you should get a decent match from any hand held radio
[20:27] <mfa298> it's the telescopic / whip antennas that probably won't show a good match on a swr meter as they rely on you to be part of the antenna. (or in the case of magmount whips they rely on the car roof)
[20:28] <astrobiologist> that's reassuring mfa298. I had worried that the f7e itself was relying on that, if you see what I mean.
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[20:29] <astrobiologist> does anybody have a 70cm yagi with an sma connector I could borrow? I have sma-pl259 adapters for that matter and a SWR meter with so239s to go inbetween
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[20:33] <HA7018> I have this one: http://gallery.pilismeteor.hu/v/muhely/20131214/CAM00444.jpg.html but you are a bit far away :-)
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[20:35] <astrobiologist> it looks rather large ha7018.... or your room is quite small? I am actually in bucharest next April but I will still be quite far away! (but not quite so far)
[20:37] <HA7018> It's ~2m long...
[20:37] <HA7018> First I read you are in Budapest....
[20:37] <HA7018> too bad
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[20:41] <astrobiologist> I was in Budapest... in 2002
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[20:50] <mikestir> aadamson: magic voltage my a**e :)
[20:50] <mikestir> it's gone up again
[20:50] <mikestir> I think 1.3V looks reasonable for -32 according to the datasheet
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[20:55] <aadamson> yeah I noticed the temp after I sent that... ;)
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[20:56] <aadamson> it's been at the voltage for some time
[20:57] <mikestir> I think it's going to get away from the trackers before the battery packs up
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[21:00] <amell_> Let's see. Some terrain here
[21:00] <aadamson> mikestir, you very well could be right...
[21:00] <Upu> Anyone want to come to the conference we still have tickets available
[21:01] <aadamson> how many are you anticipating Anthony ?
[21:02] <Upu> Well we had 60+ last year
[21:02] <Upu> and usually we get more each year
[21:02] <aadamson> ah excellent, looks like some good presentations as well..
[21:02] <Upu> better than I'm currently allowed to advertise :/
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> this year there will be two conferences where the second one is exact copy the main one
[21:03] <aadamson> separate topics at both LeoBodnar?
[21:03] <aadamson> ah
[21:03] <aadamson> just re-read what you typed
[21:03] <aadamson> go it
[21:03] <aadamson> yea I saw you make that statement upu - best of luck
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[21:04] <Upu> so if you are considering coming we'd appreciate you getting your tickets asap
[21:06] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, did Laurenceb_ pass along this link - https://secure.beyondthenet.com/~balloon/pages/catalog.html
[21:07] <aadamson> both colored and clear available, however the clear isn't 52" is 38 as well..
[21:07] <aadamson> it exists in 52" in the wild, but doesn't seem to be readily available
[21:08] <aadamson> for kicks I called the manf and they will make you roll if you want it... but it was a huge roll and the price was crazy
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[21:11] <mfa298> Upu: do I remember seeing there was a deadline for tickets somewhere (possibly for booking food) and if so is it worth sticking that on the wiki (I couldn't see anything there)
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[21:17] <Upu> yeah I think 1st August
[21:17] <Upu> I'll confirm and put it on the Wiki
[21:22] <astrobiologist> upu how many people expressed an interest in the foundation exam?
[21:22] <Upu> 3 I think
[21:23] <astrobiologist> Phil said I could sit the intermediate at the same time, so it's just a question of catching him when he puts in the forms
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[21:27] <astrobiologist2> am I back?
[21:28] <LazyLeopard> astrobiologist2: seems so.
[21:28] <astrobiologist2> but I now have a "2" after my name. weird.
[21:29] <mikestir> that's because your irc client couldn't use your normal nick because your old connection hadn't timed out yet
[21:31] <astrobiologist2> it sort of blipped and through me off mikestir, and then reconnected me
[21:37] <fsphil> it's a clone
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[21:42] <mikestir> quite a few eastern european/russian stations on 20m. need to find someone in UT
[21:42] <astrobiologist2> oh dear, is it like that schwarzeneger movie when he finally finds out he is a clone, after going home and finding his wife in bed... with himself?
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[21:47] <Maxell> mikestir: working the bands to find someone thats wants to have a listen at 70cm?!
[21:47] <mikestir> trying to
[21:47] <mikestir> but the streetlights are on so I have s9 noise
[21:47] <Maxell> ah yes
[21:48] <Maxell> seriously are peoples that are on hf really want to do that/
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[21:49] <Maxell> mikestir: qrg?
[21:49] <mikestir> for what?
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[21:50] <mikestir> wg2, or me on hf?
[21:50] <Maxell> hf
[21:50] <mikestir> tuning around 20m at the moment
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[22:00] <aadamson> mikestir, here's a tip that someone gave me. if there is aprs around UT, go to aprs.fi and zoom in until you can see the callsigns.
[22:00] <aadamson> Then go to qrz.com and see if those calls are there and have email addresses
[22:00] <aadamson> then drop them an email address explaining
[22:00] <mikestir> might be worth a try
[22:00] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Flerb
[22:00] <mikestir> I'm just flicking around PSK31 on 20m. there's stations from pretty much everywhere else!
[22:00] <aadamson> I was give the above in locating a downed hab, but I just checked and some of those call are on qrz.com and have email addresses so it might work, or at the min
[22:00] <amell__> Okay. Time to collect
[22:01] <aadamson> see if they will send their friends an email
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[22:03] <mikestir> time of day is against me now though as well
[22:03] <aadamson> true
[22:03] <mikestir> I guess it's gone 1 am there
[22:03] <Maxell> mikestir: I could do some CQ RUSSIA :P
[22:03] <aadamson> but these are hams so you never know :)
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[22:04] <aadamson> I was about 50% on looking up calls to get emails so YMMV
[22:04] <Maxell> midnight here too nevermind that
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[22:05] <amell__> Long walk..
[22:05] <amell__> And pissing down
[22:07] <mikestir> at least looking on aprs.fi I don't think I'd be getting much more coverage if it had aprs
[22:07] <mikestir> maybe around rostov-on-don
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[22:08] <amell__> Feck it's a cornfield
[22:08] <mikestir> watch out for those massive spiders
[22:08] <mattbrejza> have you managed to decode it on the ground?
[22:08] <daveake> He has
[22:08] <daveake> see SNUS
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[22:09] <fsphil> at last
[22:09] <mattbrejza> uh actually landed at the predicted point
[22:09] <mattbrejza> did yolochase fail?
[22:09] <fsphil> hah
[22:09] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Flerb
[22:09] <fsphil> it's just over half way through that field
[22:09] <daveake> You mean yolowithoutaradio?
[22:10] <mattbrejza> i thought they went back, persumably with a radio?
[22:10] <amell__> I hate fucking cornfields in the rain
[22:10] <fsphil> they did mention something about going back
[22:10] <daveake> Yes no radio
[22:10] <fsphil> they went back again, with no radio?
[22:11] <mikestir> amell__: you'll get arrested if you try doing that
[22:11] <fsphil> lol
[22:11] <fsphil> now now
[22:11] <mikestir> they went without a radio and wondered why they couldn't hear it?
[22:11] <fsphil> car is in the field
[22:11] <daveake> [18:18] <FuzzyLemon_> I have no idea what happened to BALYOLO in the last 645m before it hit the ground
[22:11] <daveake> [18:19] <FuzzyLemon_> I am pretty sure it landed in a huge field of very tall wheat
[22:11] <daveake> [18:19] <FuzzyLemon_> but after 3 hours of searching I couldn't find it
[22:11] <mikestir> were they expecting to pick it up on their fillings?
[22:12] <fsphil> expecting to randomly stumble across it
[22:12] <daveake> yup
[22:12] <daveake> Upu's one that landed in a maize field - I couldn't see it when I was right on it
[22:12] <fsphil> nearly there
[22:12] <daveake> Ended up walking into the line
[22:13] <mattbrejza> [18:58] <FuzzyLemon_> sorry. I'm going to search for it as soon as i can find my waterproof
[22:13] <mattbrejza> [18:58] <FuzzyLemon_> if i don't find it then my PM will give amell £50 to help us
[22:13] <fsphil> he's at it now
[22:13] <amell__> Got I it
[22:13] <daveake> yup
[22:13] <daveake> £50 to the man apparently in a blue car
[22:13] <mattbrejza> wow, for some reason its much easier if you know actually where it is and where you are
[22:13] <mfa298> there's nothing wrong with tracking payloads through cornfields at 11pmat night. Although just hope there's not a herd of cows in the field your walking through.
[22:13] <daveake> shocking
[22:14] <astrobiologist2> I detect a certain biting wit
[22:14] <fsphil> there are no footballers here
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> cornfields at night?
[22:15] <daveake> balyolo bit off more than they can chew
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/1348/are-there-public-laws-dealing-with-extraterrestrial-contact
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:15] <fsphil> it's basically X-Files
[22:15] <fsphil> cornfield at night, tracking for a device which fell from the sky
[22:15] <Laurenceb> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1351709250/oceanic-water-pressure-electriticy?ref=discovery
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:15] <fsphil> on a dark rainy night
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> with other lights in the sky?
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb, ah I saw that on hackaday
[22:16] <fsphil> I Want To Believe
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> on the post on the suspended project
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:16] <daveake> Nothing Important Happened Today
[22:17] <mfa298> Lunar_Lander: I was thinking more of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_U57ow-NHs#t=193
[22:17] <astrobiologist2> what is the web address for this irc please? tired of looking at my mobile but don't have right mac os on laptop for limechat
[22:17] <fsphil> zeusbot noooooooo
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:17] <daveake> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels%3Dhighaltitude
[22:17] <arko> inception
[22:18] <fsphil> hah
[22:18] <arko> bwaaaaaa
[22:18] <fsphil> internet recursive chat
[22:18] <arko> hahaha
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[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> I Want a Curiosity-class Rover on the Moon
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> arko, what are the challenges?
[22:18] <fsphil> it's on Mars?
[22:19] <fsphil> that's a pretty big one
[22:19] <arko> ^
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD a replic
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> +a
[22:19] <arko> yeah, try getting a grain of sand there first
[22:19] <amell_> Hmm box is flashing
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:19] <fsphil> uh-oh
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[22:19] <fsphil> is it humming?
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:19] <amell_> Spaceman on a stick too
[22:19] <daveake> When smoke comes out. run
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> the moon is more difficult than mars thermal wise I would think
[22:19] <fsphil> haha
[22:19] <aadamson> *before* smoke runs out drop it and run!
[22:19] <fsphil> it IS the X-Files
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> does it emit goo?
[22:20] <fsphil> the box or amell_?
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> the box
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[22:20] <aadamson> gooblob
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[22:22] <mikestir> looks like that will be the last we'll see of WG2
[22:22] <mikestir> heading up for 10 minutes since last
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[22:25] <amell___> Back at car now
[22:25] <amell___> I need to turn this box off
[22:26] <mattbrejza> did you ask the farmer at 11pm? i see the chasecar path goes up to the house
[22:28] <amell___> All off
[22:28] <amell___> Habduino.
[22:28] <amell___> Gopro out of juice
[22:28] <daveake> Hardly surprising!
[22:29] <amell___> Texting customer now
[22:29] <daveake> Nice one you earned your $$ :)
[22:29] <amell___> Btw they decided they didn't want to recover. Their decision
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[22:31] <Ian_> Good recovery. Is your chase car on time zone B rather than A (BST) or Z (GNT/UTC) for invoicing purposes? :-) Did you mention Rxr you use for chase please?
[22:31] <mfa298> amell___: congrats on managing a recovery where the launchers failed
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[22:33] <amell___> Rx for chase is a £7 dongle
[22:33] <amell___> :)
[22:34] <Ian_> Super job, many thanks.
[22:34] <amell___> Surprisingly hilly here. Had to drive round a little for a high point
[22:37] <Ian_> Just a thought. I have noticed a number of times when farmer's permission is sought. Perhaps a HAB collectable (Not GoPro) gee gaw that can be laughed at down the pub when the farmers get together. The word would spread and they would all want one. Grow the land owners just like the HABers network. If I go chasing I'll take a jar of my finest honey with me to open locked gates with. :-)
[22:38] <amell___> Clearly marked public footpath right of way
[22:38] <amell___> But yes if it was locked fields I would ask
[22:39] <mfa298> some of the regular launchers carry a suitable bottle of plonk to help lubricate those gate hinges
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[22:43] <Ian_> Wasn't questioning your plan amell, just general, I'm trying to figure out a personal strategy. Don't want to join the bottle-it brigade. You are obviously being chaufered, seems a shame that the pubs will be closed about now.
[22:43] <amell___> What was descent rate ? Most of the envelope came down
[22:44] <daveake> About 5m/s I think
[22:44] <daveake> So long as the balloon isn't wrapped round the chute, it makes little difference
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[22:45] <amell___> Chute is strange. Seems to be made out of a builders bag
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[22:47] <Ian_> That will either be innovation or another economic shortcut.
[22:49] <amell___> Btw I don't see a SMS tracker in the box ....
[22:51] <mfa298> that could explain why it didnt work :p
[22:51] <mikestir> haha
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:56] <Ian_> Conference: what time does it all kick off on Sat 16 August please?
[22:59] <mfa298> Ian_: it was 9:45 doors open for 10am start last year
[22:59] <mfa298> with people heading to a nearby pub around 1700
[23:00] <astrobiologist> nite all
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[23:01] <Ian_> I guess that most people travelling a distance stop over two nights, Firday and Saturday?
[23:03] <mfa298> some people stayed one or two nights.
[23:03] <mfa298> other people drove up that morning and back afterwards
[23:04] <mfa298> depends on how far you're having to travel
[23:04] <Ian_> thanks mfa298 - I'm certainly very tempted. it would be nice to put faces to some of the names here that figure significantly.
[23:04] <mfa298> it's well worth it
[23:05] <Ian_> Gotta work on a plan by Sunday and rope in an interested companion for the journey.
[23:07] <mfa298> what part of the country are you travelling from ?
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[23:19] <amell_> Actually, found the SMS tracker. It is one of those tk ones. Thought it was a battery pack as it's shrink wrapped
[23:20] <amell_> http://imgur.com/n1YnlUp
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[23:38] <DL7AD> WG2 has been lost
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 27 2014