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[06:38] <vk2kaw> .
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[08:11] <arjun_19> where can I find the link to submit flight docs
[08:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://habitat.habhub.org/
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[08:19] <mfa298> but you'll need a working payload first
[08:20] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
[08:22] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[08:23] <cm13g09> you're up early for a Sunday
[08:27] <mfa298> well you never know when someones going to launch a baloon.
[08:27] <cm13g09> lol
[08:27] <mfa298> and I'd say 9am is a lie in compared tonormal
[08:27] <cm13g09> lol
[08:27] <cm13g09> fair enough
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[09:53] Action: fsphil is on the hill
[09:53] <fsphil> I bet they don't launch now :)
[09:56] <jonsowman> :D
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[10:08] <fsphil> into ISH time now
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[10:16] <fsphil> yay I got mosh working.
[10:16] <fsphil> it's fantastic
[10:16] <jonsowman> fsphil: mosh is really great
[10:17] <jonsowman> :)
[10:17] <fsphil> it really is. my connection up here was making it difficult typing
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[10:44] <mikestir> when are they supposed to be launching this flight then?
[10:47] <fsphil> 47 minutes ago
[10:48] <Upu> ISH time
[10:48] <Upu> in effect
[10:51] <mikestir> possible concern over the landing spot? looks wet
[10:52] <fsphil> they're launching further west than where they tested last night
[10:52] <fsphil> and it's only a tiny balloon too
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[11:02] <number10> jonsowman: one of you pics still has reg plate # - image 1592
[11:02] <fsphil> still no sign of rtty
[11:03] <jonsowman> number10: interesting, I only see KS02
[11:03] <jonsowman> not the latter half
[11:07] <fsphil> ah I think I see rtty
[11:07] <fsphil> yep
[11:08] <fsphil> very weak, must still be on the ground
[11:08] <number10> I need to get antenna set up again - yesterdays balloon landed just down the orad
[11:08] <number10> road
[11:08] <number10> although I was out
[11:08] <fsphil> if I got the yagi out I could probably decode this
[11:11] <fsphil> at least I hope its still on the ground
[11:13] <fsphil> getting stronger
[11:14] <fsphil> got a line
[11:14] <fsphil> 378m
[11:14] <cm13g09> fsphil: I love mosh as an SSH client....
[11:14] <fsphil> it's amazing!
[11:14] <cm13g09> yep
[11:15] <fsphil> it's like there's no lag at all
[11:15] <cm13g09> after all, you can shut your laptop lid, go into suspend
[11:15] <cm13g09> turn up on *somebody else's network*
[11:15] <cm13g09> and it carries on
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[11:15] <fsphil> that's an alarmingly slow ascent rate
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> does mosh have a server side?
[11:16] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: it requires mosh be installed both ends
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> k
[11:16] <fsphil> and two udp ports opened up on the server side
[11:16] <fsphil> very strong signal now
[11:16] <cm13g09> depending on how your firewall is done, yes fsphil
[11:16] <fsphil> this is going to be a long flight...
[11:17] <cm13g09> fsphil: I see why I didn't have to do anything server side... my firewall appears to be TCP-lopsided.....
[11:18] <cm13g09> the drop-all rules aren't applying to anything other than TCP ;)
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[11:21] <LeoBodnar> any news from STS-11? It seems to have been in rude health at last point
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> and the weather over Med is great
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[11:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Frequency for PaulCD anyone? Looks like it's going to go right over me ... !
[11:39] <fsphil> 434.652 atm
[11:40] <Martin_G4FUI> Thanks fsphil I'm on it ...
[11:41] <mikestir> was this meant to be a float attempt or is that an accident?
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[11:41] <fsphil> accident I suspect
[11:42] <mikestir> could be a contender for the isle of man challenge
[11:42] <fsphil> lol
[11:42] <fsphil> no point me staying up here anyway
[11:42] <fsphil> heading home
[11:43] <Martin_G4FUI> I was just going to say that a chase car for a floater is a novel concept ...
[11:45] <mikestir> blimey I can hear it already
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[11:47] <mikestir> is it higher than the map suggests?
[11:47] <mikestir> elevation -1.2
[11:48] <bertrik> nice
[11:48] <mattbrejza> does your antenna have clear view of the sea?
[11:48] <mikestir> no
[11:48] <mikestir> there's a hill in the way!
[11:48] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[11:49] <mikestir> I was actually considering going up to the beach with a yagi to see how far below the horizon it would work, but I'm glad I didn't bother!
[11:51] <Martin_G4FUI> You and I are roughly equidistant from NIHAB ATM, mikestir ...
[11:52] <mikestir> can you hear it?
[11:52] <Martin_G4FUI> No, not a trace
[11:52] <mikestir> I've had a couple of greens. it's mostly only a character or so away from perfect every time
[11:52] <mikestir> $$PaulCD,335,11:51:45,5438439,-07.26382,1403,11*95A3
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[11:52] Nick change: mikestir -> mikestir_M0MKS
[11:52] <Martin_G4FUI> I have the Lake District fells in the way!
[11:53] <Martin_G4FUI> If I were on the top of Skiddaw, that would be a different story!
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[11:54] <mikestir_M0MKS> I'm only about 35m ASL here as well, so it's not like my horizon is way lower than the blue line
[11:54] <Martin_G4FUI> You might have some temperature-inversion type ducting, given the settled weather we have ATM
[11:55] <mikestir_M0MKS> maybe. it's very consistent though
[11:55] <mikestir_M0MKS> not much qsb
[11:55] <Martin_G4FUI> I think that's classic temp. inversion stuff - fascinating!
[11:57] <Upu> what frequency is it on ?
[11:57] <mikestir_M0MKS> 434.654
[11:57] <Upu> ta
[11:57] <mikestir_M0MKS> won't you be having hill issues?
[11:57] <Upu> I can't see it
[11:57] <Upu> which means its < 15km
[11:57] <mikestir_M0MKS> 1.5km
[11:58] <Upu> I'm not sure its reporting correctly
[11:58] <Upu> anyway afk
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[11:58] <LeoBodnar> the ascent profile is just too smooth for 0.5m/s
[11:58] <PaulCDR> Afternoon folks
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> given it is mid-day
[11:59] <PaulCDR> Hey fsphil
[11:59] <mikestir_M0MKS> Martin_G4FUI: at what alt would you normally be able to hear flights in NI?
[11:59] <Martin_G4FUI> I'll skwawk as soon as I see it in the w/f
[11:59] <PaulCDR> We managed to get our launch off today
[12:00] <PaulCDR> from west of NI
[12:00] <PaulCDR> not a phone signal down that part of the world at all
[12:00] <mikestir_M0MKS> PaulCDR: what's the possibility that the reported altitude is out by a factor of 10?
[12:00] <LeoBodnar> lucky
[12:00] <Maxell> M0MKS
[12:00] <Maxell> M0MKS tropo?
[12:00] <Martin_G4FUI> Difficult to answer that mikestir_M0MKS as I don't have a lot of experience of flights from that direction, though I do have some fairly big lumps of granite in the way!
[12:01] <PaulCDR> it is very likely Mikestir
[12:01] <mikestir_M0MKS> Maxell: or the altitude is being reported incorrectly, which would also explain the very low rate of ascent
[12:01] <PaulCDR> noticed that after it launched
[12:01] <PaulCDR> yeah, i think a factor of ten
[12:01] <Maxell> mikestir_M0MKS: ok we'll see
[12:01] <Martin_G4FUI> That gets my vote - still nothing here ...
[12:01] <Maxell> good luck PaulCDR
[12:02] <mikestir_M0MKS> if that's the case then it should be peeking over Upu's hill around now
[12:02] <Martin_G4FUI> AFK for (a quick) lunch!
[12:07] <PaulCDR> Cheers Maxell
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[12:08] <PaulCDR> Hey Guys, anyone know who has the call sign GI6ISW? they are only around the corner from where i live
[12:09] <mfa298> No obvious signs on the websdr (or in Southampton) but then I'm not sure when it would be over the horizon this far away
[12:09] <mikestir_M0MKS> who is G3ZGZ?
[12:09] <fsphil> gi6isw is in the channel
[12:10] <fsphil> howdy PaulCDR
[12:11] <PaulCDR> Hey Phil
[12:12] <PaulCDR> So he is phil, didnt notice that
[12:12] <PaulCDR> look to have a small bug on the altitude
[12:12] <Martin_G4FUI> I have it in the w/f what's the correct data format?
[12:12] <PaulCDR> but everything else looks good
[12:12] <mikestir_M0MKS> Martin_G4FUI: 8n1
[12:13] <PaulCDR> couldnt get a signal down that part of the world, had to come up to micky dee's to get some free wifi
[12:13] <bertrik> so, the blue horizon circle should be considered about 3 times larger than shown on the map, right?
[12:14] <Rob_m0dts> Afternoon all, what's frequency for PaulCD?
[12:14] <Martin_G4FUI> Thanks Mike - I've been looking at the wrong receiver (FCD), whilst all the time it's been receivable on the '817 (sorry!)
[12:14] <mikestir_M0MKS> 434.6535 Rob_m0dts
[12:14] <Rob_m0dts> thanks
[12:15] <G8KNN_> just appearing on the waterfall in Cambridge
[12:16] <PaulCDR> G8KNN, my one?
[12:16] <G8KNN_> yes :-)
[12:16] <PaulCDR> No way, thats class
[12:17] <PaulCDR> didnt think it would reach that far
[12:17] <G8KNN_> not strong enough to decode yet though
[12:17] <PaulCDR> still quite chuffed it can reach that far
[12:18] <fsphil> well that confirms the bug
[12:18] <mikestir_M0MKS> get back up that hill fsphil
[12:18] <Martin_G4FUI> Think so ...
[12:18] <fsphil> I know!
[12:19] <mikestir_M0MKS> no awesome propagation after all though :(
[12:19] <Martin_G4FUI> I was up for a chase :)
[12:19] <fsphil> getting a lot of red lines
[12:19] <mikestir_M0MKS> pretty consistent here even with the regular ism qrm
[12:20] <fsphil> sounds like someone is transmitting
[12:20] <fsphil> er yea
[12:20] <fsphil> voice
[12:20] <Rob_m0dts> repeater input frequency
[12:21] <fsphil> if you are indeed at 22km, then burst isn't far away
[12:21] <fsphil> I'd get chasing now PaulCDR
[12:21] <fsphil> if you're not already
[12:22] <PaulCDR> yeah, starting to pack up now
[12:22] <fsphil> woo, mosh went from 3G to home wifi without a hitch
[12:22] <fsphil> this is my new fav program
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[12:24] <mfa298> mosh is very useful for machines that are on the move and definetly the way to do irc when chasing
[12:24] <Rob_m0dts> mosh?
[12:25] <fsphil> it's ssh, but for crappy connections
[12:25] <bertrik> mosh is like SSH, but using UDP packets
[12:25] <mfa298> it's a replacement for ssh (although I think uses ssh to setup the session)
[12:25] <fsphil> it does
[12:26] <mfa298> but works well over flaky internet connections (like 3G)
[12:26] <Rob_m0dts> ah, probably good for hill tops then with intermittent gprs/3g, shall have to look into it!
[12:27] <mfa298> balloon is now going the other way so looks like it's up to the higher winds so more proof of an altitude bug
[12:27] <fsphil> yea
[12:27] <fsphil> skipping the last nmea altitude character likely
[12:28] <G8KNN_> green
[12:29] Nick change: G8KNN_ -> G8KNN
[12:29] <mfa298> I can see it on the waterfall in Southampton
[12:30] <fsphil> better than I'm doing :p
[12:30] <mfa298> I'm not sure it's good enough to decode
[12:30] <fsphil> fading out a lot
[12:31] <fsphil> must be windy up there
[12:31] <PaulCDR> yeah, it must be dropping the last digit
[12:31] <PaulCDR> we recoked it would hit 22000m, but is still going
[12:33] <g8fjg_ron> greens from the mud flats of river Thames
[12:34] <fsphil> nice!
[12:36] <Upu> I can see it
[12:37] <Upu> altitude reporting HAS to be wrong
[12:37] <Martin_G4FUI> I think there's a "decimal point" error
[12:38] <mfa298> Upu: I think it's been pretty much confirmed as doing a /10 plenty of evidence for it being wrong
[12:38] <Upu> well I can't see stuff from that direction unless its > 15km
[12:39] <fsphil> it's further south than most launches here
[12:40] <fsphil> could be a larger hill
[12:41] <fsphil> 29km does seem rather good for such a small balloon
[12:42] <fsphil> burst
[12:42] <Rob_m0dts> pop
[12:43] <fsphil> this is going to land pretty near where the bbc ni flight did
[12:44] <g8fjg_ron> gone for me
[12:44] <fsphil> assuming the prediction is about half of what that is showing
[12:44] <PaulCDR> on its way down,
[12:44] <PaulCDR> where was that phil
[12:44] <PaulCDR> it was a 350g balloon
[12:45] <fsphil> just right on the border
[12:45] <PaulCDR> are you still getting a signal?
[12:46] <fsphil> yea but it's moving all over the place
[12:46] <fsphil> it'll get better as it slows down
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[12:48] <PaulCDR> 5m, getting nervous now :(
[12:49] <fsphil> spinning pretty wildly from the sound of it
[12:49] <mikestir_M0MKS> getting very weak
[12:49] <mikestir_M0MKS> must be coming down fast
[12:49] <fsphil> better
[12:50] <fsphil> got a line
[12:51] <ReadError> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-High-Altitude-Balloon-Tracker-Arduino/
[12:51] <ReadError> got this in my email :)
[12:51] <ReadError> mentions #highaltitude
[12:51] <Martin_G4FUI> Disappearing into the noise now - not a single green since the burst here
[12:51] <mikestir_M0MKS> only one here I think, but the AFC lost track of it while I was making some lunch
[12:52] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=de9ccfbe1be8c3cbb49d72f1f00adaf82f616907
[12:52] <fsphil> assuming *10 altitude and 5m/s landing speed
[12:52] <fsphil> struggling to decode anything else
[12:52] <fsphil> I should've stayed up the mountain
[12:54] <PaulCDR> Cheers guys, gonna head here and find it
[12:54] <fsphil> 11.3km up
[12:54] <fsphil> 10.9
[12:54] <PaulCDR> hopefully
[12:54] <fsphil> hehe
[12:55] <fsphil> is the antenna out the side, or is it out the top or bottom?
[12:56] <fsphil> 9.2km
[12:57] <fsphil> 8.7
[12:57] <fsphil> c'mon, settle down
[12:58] <fsphil> yay, line
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[12:59] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=d30cd38424a077f35f07564c4c6729329a95169a
[13:00] <Maxell> Would a waterproof PL-259 connector like this one http://dxavenue.com/131-465-thickbox/pl-259-clamp-connector-uhf-male.jpg be suffcient waterproof to mount it outside without self-amalgamating tape?
[13:01] <mikestir_M0MKS> it won't be waterproof around the threads
[13:01] <mikestir_M0MKS> I wouldn't risk it
[13:01] <mikestir_M0MKS> self-amalgamating tape is cheap anyway
[13:03] <Martin_G4FUI> I would always use an "N" connector in preference to a '259 which are famously dreadful!
[13:04] <Maxell> The plan is to mound the X30 on top of a piece of pipe like lke this https://revspace.nl/images/9/93/LUsffcP.png
[13:04] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=a12b074b276123f196a8863b354f4b3f6a5977ce
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> are you still not chasing?! [13:54] <PaulCDR> Cheers guys, gonna head here and find it
[13:04] <Maxell> Martin_G4FUI: I'd rather do that too. However, the X30 I have does not have the N connector on it. :(
[13:05] <fsphil> $$PaulCD,700,13:04:45,54.36190,-27.20155,371,11*1E30
[13:05] <fsphil> missing newline I think
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> that's still 4km up
[13:06] <fsphil> ah, green
[13:06] <fsphil> it's a bit more stable now
[13:07] <fsphil> still spinning though
[13:07] <fsphil> 2.4km
[13:07] <fsphil> I'm going to lose it shortly
[13:08] <fsphil> 2.2
[13:08] <Maxell> still grens fsphil?
[13:09] <Maxell> greens
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[13:09] <fsphil> barely
[13:09] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=65d8f2dc5caaa516396d7b0679a53fce7b4dd03c
[13:09] <fsphil> the spinning is killing it
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[13:09] <daveake> for a moment I thought you still had it after landing ...
[13:09] <fsphil> one or two characters every time
[13:09] <fsphil> lol
[13:09] <daveake> ... then I remembered L(
[13:09] <fsphil> still falling
[13:10] <fsphil> and spinning
[13:10] <fsphil> 1.1km
[13:10] <daveake> -0.8m/s. That's pretty quick
[13:10] <fsphil> .9
[13:11] <fsphil> nearly there
[13:11] <mikestir_M0MKS> take cover!
[13:11] <fsphil> .76
[13:11] <fsphil> oh it's reporting correct altitude I think
[13:11] <fsphil> fading
[13:11] <fsphil> and gone
[13:12] <fsphil> $$PaulCD,733,13::21,54.3682,-07.19085,5,11*7BC0
[13:12] <fsphil> last line
[13:12] <fsphil> one before, $$PaulCD,732,13:11:09,54.35719,-07.19109,676,11*C60
[13:13] <fsphil> 676m would make sense
[13:14] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=381272c64c78edbe18d9f302970d2b48615d2f67
[13:14] <fsphil> nice open area
[13:14] <fsphil> they should get a signal if it survived landing
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[13:19] <fsphil> hehe, nearly 400m asl
[13:20] <fsphil> bit of a trek
[13:20] <fsphil> no nearby roads
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[13:22] <LeoBodnar> terrain is ~300m asl
[13:22] <fsphil> I'd probably have tracked it to landing from the hill
[13:31] <Maxell> fsphil: that is clearly not how PaulCDR rolls
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[13:39] <Maxell> mikestir_M0MKS: would the clamp-waterproof version also also have less annutation then the good 'ol solder one?
[13:40] <Maxell> self-amalgamating tape will take care of the waterproof part, and I have done the solder one before
[13:40] <mikestir_M0MKS> I don't think the clamp ones are intended to be waterproof are they? they just have the advantage of being mechanically attached to the cable
[13:40] <mikestir_M0MKS> they are undoubtedly better than the solder ones
[13:41] <Maxell> http://www.hamshop.nl/product_info.php/cPath/89_94/products_id/407 sells them as "special waterproof"
[13:41] <Maxell> http://www.hamshop.nl/images/Hamshop-PL-7-Clamp.jpg
[13:41] <mikestir_M0MKS> not convinced. water will eventually seep into the thread by capillary action
[13:41] <mikestir_M0MKS> the O-ring at the cable end will be a good seal, but not the other end
[13:43] <Maxell> Ok, being waterproof is not the issue here since it will be mounted in this fashion https://revspace.nl/images/9/93/LUsffcP.png
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[13:52] <Paulcdr> Looks like we lost it
[13:54] <fsphil> how far are you from the last position?
[13:54] <fsphil> it was 586m up, ground level was about 380m asl
[13:55] <fsphil> it can't be that far
[13:55] <fsphil> or do you mean you can't physically get to it?
[13:55] <fsphil> it does look like quite an interesting trek
[13:55] <fsphil> all up hill
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[13:56] <Paulcdr> What's the last cords you have for it
[13:57] <fsphil> $$PaulCD,733,13:11:21,54.35682,-07.19085,586,11*7BC0
[13:57] <fsphil> check spacenear too
[13:57] <fsphil> you might need to refresh
[13:58] <mattbrejza> do we think thats 5.8km or 580m?
[13:58] <fsphil> looks like below 1000m it reported the correct altitude
[13:58] <mattbrejza> oh ok
[13:58] <mattbrejza> so if its still transmitting should be easy enough to find
[13:58] <fsphil> the last two points give it a -4.9m/s descent rate
[13:59] <fsphil> there is a road not tooo far from it
[14:00] <fsphil> then you've got a 100m climb up a hill
[14:00] <Paulcdr> We have had to come back into town to get mobile signal
[14:01] <Paulcdr> Is that it Ashfield road?
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/118673_trj001.gif
[14:02] <fsphil> hmm.. google isn't giving me a street name
[14:02] <fsphil> "Unnamed Rd
[14:02] <fsphil> helpful
[14:03] <fsphil> http://goo.gl/maps/IOCvZ
[14:04] <fsphil> the road continues on past where google have it
[14:04] <fsphil> past that fence
[14:04] <fsphil> gate even
[14:04] <fsphil> it might get you pretty close to the landing site
[14:04] <LeoBodnar> do you have directional antenna Paulcdr ?
[14:06] <Paulcdr> No, don't have one
[14:07] <Paulcdr> That link won't work for me
[14:07] <mattbrejza> can you put the last positions into your satnav?
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[14:12] <LeoBodnar> do you have any portable receivers Paulcdr?
[14:12] <fsphil> timed out
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[14:12] <fsphil> last I heard there was a laptop and radio in the chase car
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> This is as useful as Radio One
[14:16] <Laurenceb__> lol
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[14:23] <fsphil> fixed their altitude in spacenear except for the last lines >1000m that seemed to be correct
[14:23] <fsphil> it all looks fine
[14:43] <Maxell> fsphil: nice
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[14:46] <Maxell> chasecar with no radio???
[14:46] <Maxell> dayum
[14:46] <fsphil> yea sounds a bit iffy
[14:46] <fsphil> can understand the launch site having no internet
[14:46] <fsphil> been stuck with that before, very annoying
[14:47] <mattbrejza> on friday you had to hold phones in the air to get gsm
[14:48] <mattbrejza> however the craag mobile has a 3g antenna connected to a wifi point so we still got decent internet :P
[14:50] <fsphil> nearly got my home wifi from the hill. must get a higher gain antenna
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[14:52] <mattbrejza> other issues with that launch site was that the minibus with the He couldnt get under the entrace barrier
[14:52] <mattbrejza> and a windy day wouldnt have gone well with all the trees
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[15:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:20] <fsphil> ahoy
[15:21] <fsphil> intense little storm in mid-east france atm
[15:21] <fsphil> that would be fun to fly something through
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[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[15:59] <aadamson> http://clipnong.vn/v/2254 - looks like fun
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[16:29] <gb73d> wow
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[16:35] <staylo> And when that gets dull.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_-zOgjU9PM
[16:37] <aadamson> On that topic... I have a friend who is into *scale* High Power rockets. - http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/bios/burlphoenix.jpg
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[16:38] <aadamson> he launched that one day with an *m* class motor - with an FAA waiver, etc
[16:38] <aadamson> on the *white smoke* motor
[16:38] <aadamson> JUST AS A 747 was landing at a city south of the launch site (still at 24+kt feet at launch)
[16:39] <aadamson> but you can bet if that captain has any military experience, he was wondering what just happened.
[16:39] <aadamson> rocket only went to about 12k btw even on an M as it was so heavy
[16:45] <staylo> Well, in fairness I guess launching a scale replica of an air to air missile without a target just seems like a waste :)
[16:47] <aadamson> and to that point - http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/xl/missile-balloons-for-your-car-xl.jpg
[16:47] <aadamson> :)
[16:51] <myself> lmao
[16:51] <myself> I'll take two
[16:52] <myself> title 'em "BIG OIL" and "SUVs"
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[17:17] Action: Chetic has solved his radio issue
[17:17] <Chetic> :D
[17:18] <myself> congrats, how? heh
[17:19] <Chetic> explicitly used 2 stop bits, ran the rpi on batteries and lowered the sample rate severly on the rtl sdr
[17:19] <Chetic> the sample rate was probably the big crook
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[17:20] <Chetic> I kept thinking the higher the sample rate the better
[17:21] <Chetic> but someone here tipped me to lower it and that seems to have done it :)
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[17:56] <PaulCDR> we found the payload about 1 mile from its last know position across bog land. took us about an hour just to get across the terrain
[17:57] <MightyMik> so recovered then?
[17:57] <PaulCDR> thank to all on here for you help and advise. and to fsphil and GI6ISW that helped track it
[17:57] <PaulCDR> yeah, we got it in the end
[17:57] <MightyMik> grats
[17:57] <PaulCDR> cheers. we thought it was a gonner
[17:58] <PaulCDR> not a drop of phone signal down that part of the country. it was a nightmare. if it wasnt for the android tracker app we would have never found it.
[18:00] <PaulCDR> final resting place 54.35568,-07.19049
[18:02] <qyx_> any pictures of the recovery?
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[18:21] <PaulCDR> yeah, i do, ill get one up qyx
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[18:24] <fsphil> good news PaulCDR
[18:24] <fsphil> I've had similar landing spots, they're no fun
[18:24] <fsphil> was it still transmitting?
[18:25] <PaulCDR> yeah, we got to the top of the hill and nothing, then once we got over it, bang, i got a signal. near jumped 6 foot in the air
[18:25] <PaulCDR> i stopped getting a signal about 100 feet from where it landed
[18:25] <PaulCDR> real lucky
[18:26] <fsphil> I'm surprised it was a mile out
[18:26] <PaulCDR> well, when i think about it, it was a mile from where we had to get out of the car
[18:26] <fsphil> eek, batteries?
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[18:27] <PaulCDR> when i put the locations into an online calc it was about 120 meters from the last cord you gave us.
[18:27] <PaulCDR> not sure if it was batteries, it was still on when we got it.
[18:28] <fsphil> not bad. it wasn't too far above the ground when I lost it
[18:28] <PaulCDR> need to have a look at it later
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[18:28] <PaulCDR> thank you so much for that today. you defo saved it. it would have never been found by accident
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[18:30] <fsphil> no worries
[18:31] <PaulCDR> the camera stopped about 1:30
[18:31] <PaulCDR> it powered on again so it wasnt batteries
[18:31] <PaulCDR> landing zone (not me by the way) http://imgur.com/LCnBrIE
[18:31] <fsphil> aww, no pics?
[18:31] <PaulCDR> yeah we have pic. i think it burst about 1:30ish
[18:32] <fsphil> ah ha
[18:32] <fsphil> now I see why the signal was tricky on the way down
[18:32] <fsphil> antenna on a cord :)
[18:32] <PaulCDR> yeah it was all tangled
[18:32] <fsphil> nice clean balloon burst though
[18:34] <PaulCDR> it was a bit cloudy http://imgur.com/CPOciOz
[18:34] <fsphil> nice!
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[18:34] <fsphil> yea I had a look for the balloon but just too cloudy
[18:35] <PaulCDR> with a big pair of binoculars :)
[18:36] <PaulCDR> we bit of land poking through
[18:36] <PaulCDR> http://imgur.com/Ee9fQTi
[18:36] <PaulCDR> i think you can see the moon in that one, or its a bit of dust
[18:36] <fsphil> just looking at that
[18:37] <fsphil> do you know what time that was taken?
[18:37] <fsphil> the phase looks right
[18:37] <PaulCDR> 13:26 according to the file, but it might be an hour out
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[18:43] <fsphil> hmmm, celestia won't run for me
[18:43] <SV5DKL> B-60 quite audible here, but drifts a bit when TXing its telemetry.
[18:44] <SV5DKL> battery readings also somewhat varying among telemetry reports
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[18:44] <Maxell> PaulCDR: nice moon however ours is bigger! https://imgur.com/a/Jnktr#14
[18:44] <fsphil> PaulCDR: yea it's the moon
[18:45] <fsphil> it was near the horizon at about 12:00
[18:52] <PaulCDR> nice one maxell, that looks very obivous
[18:53] <fsphil> I win: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/13621831034/in/set-72157643394259575
[18:53] <fsphil> (cheated)
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:55] <PaulCDR> emm, ok phil lol
[19:02] <PaulCDR> i see the data was adjusted for the bug in the altitude. thats handy
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[19:06] <fsphil> yea I did a quick database fix
[19:06] <fsphil> just * 10
[19:06] <fsphil> interestingly below 1000m the altitude was reported correct
[19:06] <SV1NJX> hello
[19:06] <fsphil> hiya SV1NJX
[19:07] <SV1NJX> Just a remark
[19:07] <PaulCDR> yeah, must have a look at what i have done, im sure its someting stupid
[19:07] <SV1NJX> today i used DL_FLDIGI for B-60 reception
[19:08] <SV1NJX> Bodnar's pico's transmitting in ISM band 434.500
[19:08] <PaulCDR> im sure this hasnt helped gps.alt = atoi(alt)/10;
[19:09] <SV1NJX> So the most of the time i have QRM from a local home TV extender
[19:09] <fsphil> whyyyyy
[19:09] <PaulCDR> god knows
[19:09] <fsphil> or why did it work below 1000m
[19:09] <PaulCDR> but that dosnt explain why it works under 1k
[19:10] <fsphil> I bet the bug is the nmea parser is returning an altitude * 10 when below 1000m
[19:10] <SV1NJX> that's a note for Bodnar...
[19:10] <fsphil> and since it was only ever tested below 1000m, the quick fix was to / 10
[19:11] <PaulCDR> sounds familiar, it was early last year when i done 95% of the code
[19:13] <Maxell> SV1NJX: contestia deals with qrm quite nicely iirc
[19:13] <Maxell> SV1NJX: must be some load qrm
[19:13] <Trieste> Oh, that reminds me - what options are there for telemetry, really? Is RTTY pretty much the best option?
[19:14] <fsphil> it is often the simplest
[19:14] <Maxell> Trieste: there are a lot of code examples or even complete code snippits for RTTY.
[19:14] <fsphil> aprs is another option if you have an amateur radio license, and your country allows it to be used in the air (not all do)
[19:14] <SV1NJX> I have a local station (a neighbor) that uses some TV extender at 434.500 FM
[19:15] <Trieste> fsphil: you don't need a license for rtty?
[19:15] <SV1NJX> So when it turn it on , anything else vanish
[19:15] <SV1NJX> I captured a lot of B-60 packets anyway
[19:15] <Trieste> Maxell: yeah, I was thinking more bandwith/range/price-wise, though
[19:15] <Trieste> *width
[19:15] <fsphil> Trieste: there is a license exempt band at about 434mhz in europe
[19:16] <Trieste> fsphil: oh, good, I didn't know that
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[19:17] <fsphil> it's limited to 10mw power
[19:18] <Trieste> oh, another thing, how does one calculate the power of a transmitter?
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[19:18] <Trieste> (I really hope you don't mind me asking this sort of questions, it's just that I'm really new, and I couldn't really find anything on google)
[19:19] <fsphil> the modules we use have a rated power
[19:19] <fsphil> you wouldn't have to do anything special unless it was built from scratch
[19:20] <Maxell> RTTY can be done on all fsk radios modules... the other modes require smaller frequency steps
[19:21] <Maxell> Trieste: yep you buy the 10 mW version.
[19:21] <Maxell> Or they have some software setting for 10 mW
[19:22] <PaulCDR> im off here folks, thank for all your help today everyone
[19:23] <Trieste> is there a list somewhere of suitable modules? the ones I found were either really low range, or too capable and hence expensive
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[19:27] <Trieste> actually, scratch that, would something like http://uk.farnell.com/rf-solutions/alpha-tx433s/rf-module-transmitter-fsk-433mhz/dp/1718687 be fine?
[19:28] <fsphil> the NTX2B is the most popular option at the moment
[19:28] <fsphil> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92
[19:29] <fsphil> that alpha module has an odd frequency, 439mhz
[19:29] <Trieste> ooh, thanks
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[19:29] <fsphil> though it might be tuneable
[19:30] <Trieste> haha, I like that they acknowledge on the product page that it's popular for hab
[19:30] <craag> The shop is run by a habber :)
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[19:43] <mfa298> I think I got one of those alpha tx modules to try out but I've not done anything useful with it yet. NTX2B is much easier to use as a beginner
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[19:51] <snelly> so these Radiometrix transmitters....how do they compare to, say, an Alinco DJ-C5?
[19:52] <DL7AD> snelly: these transmitters are pretty small and easy to handle. and they dont need that much power.
[19:53] <mfa298> for the UK the extra output power from any HT is wasted as we have to use the ISM band so max 10mW (which is what the NTX2B is)
[19:53] <snelly> how's their rx ability for APRS?
[19:53] <snelly> this is for the USA
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[19:54] <craag> Read their datasheet
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[19:54] <DL7AD> snelly: hm.... ah okay. i did one aprs pcb for a BiM1H
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[19:54] <mfa298> the NTX2 is transmit only but some of the other Radiometrix modules are TX/RX or there are RX only modules but I'm not sure anyone has done much with them yet.
[19:54] <craag> They're rather different to a handheld :P
[19:54] <DL7AD> the NTC2B is not made for aprs
[19:55] <fsphil> you need an HX1 for that
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[19:57] <Turan> Hello, I need some advise for my HAB project. I am a beginner and I tried the receiving of a NTX2B with two different receivers (Yupiteru and Kenwood both with SSB) and it didnt work. What could be wrong?
[19:58] <mfa298> Turan: can you recieve a carrier from the ntx2 using those radios ?
[19:58] <mfa298> also how is the ntx2 connected up and what's driving it ?
[19:58] <Turan> no, there is just noise no data or 'beeps'
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> There was a bug in the fw of the *very* early NTX2B's
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[19:59] <chrisstubbs> you had to toggle the enable pin after powering it up to get it to kick in
[19:59] <Turan> I use an arduino with just this sketch: const int radiopin = 9; void setup() { pinMode(radiopin,OUTPUT); } void loop() { digitalWrite(radiopin, HIGH); delay(100); digitalWrite(radiopin, LOW); delay(100); }
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[20:00] <mfa298> you may also need to tune around a bit, the carrier may not be exactly on the advertised frequency.
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> Scan up and down a bit and you should hear a tone alternating in frequency
[20:00] <mfa298> how is the ntx2b connected to the arduino ?
[20:00] <Turan> I did, but what is toggling?
[20:01] <Turan> NTX2B Pin 4,5 to 5V. Pin 6 to Ground and Pin 7 to Pin 9 of Arduino
[20:02] <mfa298> any resistors in that setup or just a direct connection ?
[20:02] <Turan> direct connection
[20:03] <mfa298> in that case the two tones are going to be ~6KHz apart if you're just toggling the pin on and off.
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> mfa298, upu's latest tutorial seems to use PWM
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> ah and your code was just driving it high and low, sorry on the ball now :P
[20:03] <Turan> yes
[20:04] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: that's why I was asking, the lines of code above looks like it's just toggling on and off, no pwm
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[20:04] <Turan> I did it also with the code on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 but it did not work
[20:05] <mfa298> the NTX2b is also only rated to 3v on the data pin although I think that's only because thats the point it stops affecting the frequency.
[20:07] <mfa298> the first thing to do is find the carrier frequency coming from the ntx2b. For that you only need to have VCC, EN and GND connected. Then tune around with a radio to find the carrier - test by turning the nrx2 on and off and see if the carrier disappears when the ntx2b is off.
[20:07] <chrisstubbs> And if you see no carrier at all, try disconnecting and reconnecting the EN pin, while the others are still connected
[20:09] <Turan> ok
[20:09] <mfa298> also note that there are two versions of that article. The code you pasted above is from an older version with adds resistors (http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?rev=1381045698) but the wiring sounds like it's from a newer version (http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2)
[20:11] <DL7AD> this i a opentracker board made for a Radiometrix BiM1H transceiver module: www.dl7ad.de/Tracker_v5_schmal.T3001
[20:11] <myself> You'd think this would be a completely solved problem with a few "finished" boards and codebases.
[20:11] <myself> It strikes me as a bit weird that it's not
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[20:14] <mfa298> myself: there are some boards available for close to ready built trackers (see habduino) but the general consensus here is that (at least for UK flights) it's prefered that people have to do a bit of work as it means there's more chance of anyone launching finding out the legal and safety aspects as well.
[20:15] <mfa298> there have been some really stupid flights where people have done things which could be potentially dangerous.
[20:15] <Turan> no carrier
[20:15] <myself> mfa298: I guess that makes sense, it's just not such a direct correspondence. Someone being forced to dive into the minutiae of electronics doesn't necessarily give them any legal clue..
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[20:15] <chrisstubbs> Turan, did you try toggling EN?
[20:16] <Turan> what means toggling (sorry, I'm from germany :))
[20:16] <chrisstubbs> Ah
[20:16] <myself> change state
[20:17] <mfa298> doing some of the code yourself also means when you come to launch you'll understand how the system works so you've got some chance of fixing it at the launch site when something doesn't work properly rather than just launching something that isn't working and praying it might start working when it's flying (presumably through some sort of divine intervention) which generally leads to it being lost (which has also happened a few times)
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[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah a fellow german xD
[20:17] <chrisstubbs> Yes, disconnect that pin for VCC and connect it to GND for a second, then back to VCC
[20:17] <craag> myself: Often the thinking associated with the programming (what will happen if altitude goes above 32768km?) will transfer into thinking about the flight (what will happen if my 5kg payload lands in central london?)
[20:19] <myself> heh.. if your altitude exceeds 32 megameters, I think we need to talk ;)
[20:20] <craag> one day... ;)
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[20:20] <fsphil> in mexico
[20:20] <kc2pit> Using a signed int for altitude would indicate a certain pessimism.
[20:21] <mfa298> myself: the act of having to do some of the programming yourself also tends to lead people to seeking help here or on the mailing list and looking at the wiki at which point there's a good chance of legal / safety things being spotted by someone else (often a few people here would check that notams are in place - or point out that needs to be done, and point out things like Ed's stairs test)
[20:21] <fsphil> some day soon uint16_t will not be enough
[20:21] <kc2pit> Or an ambitious multi-role payload concept.
[20:21] <myself> Or launching from Death Valley
[20:22] <myself> but I think I smell a Kerbal Submarine Program mod pack..
[20:23] <craag> some flights have landed at negative altitude
[20:23] <craag> I think there was at least one that used a uint_16t
[20:23] <craag> resulting in a bit of a jump!
[20:23] <kc2pit> Heh.
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[20:24] <kc2pit> Yeah, okay, those silly pieces of land that somehow aren't underwater could create interesting consequences with an unsigned altitude.
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[20:28] <mfa298> you mean like some of norfolk / sufolk in the UK and most of The Netherlands.
[20:28] <myself> get one flaky altitude packet and your cutdown device arms itself before launch...
[20:28] <craag> an altitude trigger should always need a few packets in a row to trigger
[20:29] <craag> that lesson has been learnt several times I believe
[20:29] <mfa298> and hopefully if you've got a cutdown there's some sort of safety arming mechanism so it's safe on the ground (expecially if it's a pyro rather than just nicrome)
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> lol, B-60 APRS paket over Rhodes, digipeated by station near Istanbul and igated by station near Varna, Bulgaria, 800km in total and single hop
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi conclusion: Good path
[20:30] <mfa298> you mean you're not being considerate and using NOPATH on your packets ? (/troll)
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> let me find a suitable quote
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[20:34] <LeoBodnar> "There are probably those in the APRS and specifically the HAB community who think of themselves as being more important that anyone else, and who feel they are entitled to use any and all infrastructure out there any way they feel like it because "I'm important... more important than anyone else out there!"
[20:36] <LZ1DEV> lol
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[20:43] <LeoBodnar> http://i.imgur.com/a2mw8LB.jpg
[20:45] <LZ1DEV> please don't
[20:45] <LZ1DEV> you will bring down critical aprs 'infrastructure'
[20:46] <DL7AD> rofl.....
[20:46] <LZ1DEV> think of the kids in africa
[20:46] <DL7AD> did someone raise his finger?
[20:46] <LZ1DEV> every 60 seconds in Africa a minute passes
[20:46] <LZ1DEV> together we can stop this
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[21:02] <mikestir_M0MKS> anyone getting approx 250ms pulses on 434.4?
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[21:06] <LeoBodnar> not here
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[21:08] <mikestir_M0MKS> just started up a few minutes ago while I was testing. quite a bit of fading like it's moving
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[21:16] <DL7AD> mikestir_M0MKS: nope.....
[21:18] <Maxell> lol LeoBodnar https://i.imgur.com/a2mw8LB.jpg
[21:18] <Maxell> hahaha
[21:19] <Maxell> LZ1DEV: oh noes
[21:19] <Maxell> lolol
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[21:21] <PaulCDR> Hey, i meant to ask earlier, is there any way of getting the raw data that was uploaded to the tracker today?
[21:21] <craag> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[21:22] <craag> ^^ select your flight, data fields and the format you'd like :)
[21:23] <PaulCDR> brilliant, cheers man
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[21:24] <fsphil> the altitude will still be wrong in that
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[21:25] <PaulCDR> Yeah i see that. easy fixed
[21:26] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: I see, the YM3BUR,LZ2AB-4 path.
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> yep
[21:29] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: I also have not figured out how my WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path gets digipeated three times... PI1DFT --> ON0ANT-1 --> ON0DAS-4 --> ON0LN-10 igate when the pi1dft internet igate is down
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> some gates don't decrement the path counter
[21:29] <Maxell> Or ON0ANT-1 is messing up the WIDE2-1 or ON0DAS-4 just ignores it.
[21:31] <Maxell> ANT itself sends his packet like ON0DAS-4,ON0LN-10. However if you get digipeated by ANT it looks like ON0ANT-1,PI1APV-2,PI1DFT
[21:31] <Maxell> something is messed up
[21:32] <Maxell> And I might be better off only using WIDE1-1 in The Hague area. I havnt figured out the aloha cicle yet but I suspect PI1DFT is all I need :P
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[21:35] <LeoBodnar> can you force the first gate?
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[21:36] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:36] <PaulCDR> there are some damm handy features on the habhub site, who designs them and looks after them?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> not me
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:38] <craag> the worshipped 'habhub team'
[21:39] <craag> they'll be at the UKHAS conference this summer
[21:39] <craag> Giving a talk on improvements to the predictor and stuff
[21:40] <PaulCDR> i was looking at it, was thinking about taking a trip over. looks like it could be really interesting
[21:41] <PaulCDR> is there any kind of donation page, there is clearly a load of work and effort involved in that site. bound to worth throwing them a few quid
[21:43] <craag> There isn't
[21:43] <craag> Although buying a conf ticket is the next best thing
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> you can set up a challenge with a prize
[21:44] <amell> The DSN status page is really interesting - saw them using madrid dish to communicate 2 way with voyager 1.
[21:44] <craag> (the guy organising the conf also pays for the habhub/spacenear servers)
[21:44] <amell> 15kW at 8Ghz
[21:45] <PaulCDR> cool, cheers craag.
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> the next best thing you can do PaulCDR is buying the HAB stuff from Upu shop i guess
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> as it is getting reinvested into this community/hobby
[21:46] <amell> 19.05 billion km - round trip time 1.47 days. wow.
[21:47] <PaulCDR> Yeah Leo, thats where i bought all my stuff this time. plan to make another one, so ill defo buy from him again.
[21:48] <amell> received power from voyager 1 =8.5 x 10e-23 kW
[21:49] <chrisstubbs> Yo amell
[21:49] <fsphil> worth being on the ukhas mailing list if you're not already
[21:49] <amell> yo chrisstubbs!
[21:49] <amell> chrisstubbs: just need to get gas now, and we are good.
[21:49] <mikestir_M0MKS> amell: received power from voyager 1 =8.5 x 10e-23 k <--- this is why we have decibels :)
[21:49] <craag> Yeah also joining in with the community, helping newbies, etc. All gives good karma :)
[21:50] <chrisstubbs> Ah I was just going to ask if you had plans or were using it as a paperweight/trophy :P
[21:50] <amell> it works. got balloons off steve a week ago. been busy sailing. gas next, any thoughts on where from?
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> I get my "disposable 50" canisters off amazon.ebay
[21:51] <chrisstubbs> amazon/ebay
[21:51] <amell> how many fills did you get off a d50?
[21:52] <chrisstubbs> For that payload you will probably want an entire canister in a 100g balloon (I guess thats what you have?)
[21:53] <amell> yup 100g pawan lovingly made in kasarwadi, pune, india.
[21:54] <PaulCDR> we had some panic today, we had the balloon laid out ready to fill and a dog runs over and jumps right into the middle of it. A big lab into the bargain. we thought for certain it had ripped it
[21:54] <amell> why was a dog loose in the vincinity of a balloon?
[21:54] <amell> dog + fully inflated H2 balloon = asking for trouble.
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[21:55] <fsphil> sounds like a lab alright
[21:56] <daveake> as reported
[21:56] <PaulCDR> some guy was out walking his dogs, he had 2 pugs too, they ran over and started to sniff round. it was quite funny watching us all panic
[21:59] <fsphil> quite a few dog walks up the hill today, and bikers too oddly
[22:00] <fsphil> walkers*
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[22:03] Action: SpeedEvil ponders bike walkers.
[22:03] <amell> Not impressed with wife today. overfilled car engine with oil :(
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Did engine do merely unimpressed noises, or explody.
[22:04] <jonsowman> http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/06/how_not_to_add_motor_oil-60390.gif
[22:04] <amell> diagnostic light came on about 10 mins after she did that and drove off.
[22:05] <amell> i ran the diagnostics, apparently intake manifold flap motor is malfunctioning.
[22:06] <amell> freeze frame indicates she was doing 54km/h and 2163rpm when this happened.
[22:06] <jonsowman> as in, swirl flaps?
[22:06] <amell> I think oil has got sucked into the intake manifold. will have to take it apart and clean it out and empty some oil out the sump.
[22:06] <jonsowman> or throttle butterfly?
[22:06] <amell> really hope i dont need a new part, as its £300
[22:07] <amell> will be docking her maintenance if so
[22:07] <jonsowman> petrol/diesel?
[22:07] <amell> diesel
[22:07] <jonsowman> i assume "intake manifold flaps" is swirl flaps then
[22:07] <amell> as in EGR flap motor?
[22:08] <jonsowman> could also be that, if it has one
[22:08] <jonsowman> often they're only on the outlet
[22:08] <jonsowman> i.e. exhaust manifold
[22:08] <amell> EGR should be easy to clean out. the other one bothers me.
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[22:08] <jonsowman> I'd be bothered about how oil got into the intake manifold
[22:09] <jonsowman> suspect oil blowing past turbo seals
[22:09] <amell> would too much oil do that?
[22:09] <jonsowman> yep
[22:09] <amell> ffs
[22:09] <jonsowman> turbodiesels are very sensitive to overfilling with oil as the higher oil pressure blows the turbo seals
[22:10] <jonsowman> an unfortunate side effect to the extremely tight tolerances turbos are manufactured and run at
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[22:10] <amell> i told her to put a third in, and she puts the whole bloody container in
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[22:11] <jonsowman> fingers crossed it has survived
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[22:11] <amell> the freeze frame said 2163pm, so the turbo would have been active
[22:11] <amell> s/pm/rpm
[22:11] <jonsowman> yes that sounds like turbo territory
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[22:14] <jonsowman> drain it to the correct level, clear the fault codes, and run it for a bit
[22:14] <jonsowman> you won't do any further damage as long as it's not overful
[22:14] <amell> jonsowman: its a VW TDI 140 - do you know this engine?
[22:14] <jonsowman> nope sorry
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[22:15] <amell> do you think the turbo might have got damaged?
[22:15] <jonsowman> there's a chance, overfilling with oil is definitely known to cause it
[22:16] <amell> I need to put a padlock on the bonnet :(
[22:17] <jonsowman> you might've got away with it, needs further investigation
[22:19] <jonsowman> if you drain it to the right level and be gentle with it for a while
[22:19] <jonsowman> keep checking the oil level regularly
[22:20] <jonsowman> if the turbo seals are gone/going, it'll smoke on acceleration and probably not pull very well
[22:20] <jonsowman> if after a few thousand miles it's holding oil and running OK then you've probably gotten away with it
[22:20] <amell> its all a bit of a pain. 78K miles.
[22:21] <jonsowman> barely run in for a modern diesel ;)
[22:25] <jonsowman> anyway good luck with it
[22:25] <jonsowman> best be off
[22:25] <jonsowman> tara
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[22:42] <Ian_> I guess that oil doesn't compress very well :-)
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 23 2014