highaltitude.log.20140619

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[00:18] <Aerospark> Hey has anyone done a HAB launch with a valve to release the helium rather than just waiting for it to burst?
[00:19] <amell> who is launching that payload full of misc crap this weekend?
[00:20] <amell> Aerospark: that sounds like a cutdown to me.
[00:20] <Aerospark> no a solenoid valve
[00:20] <Aerospark> so the balloon can be reused when it lands
[00:20] <Darkside> its been done
[00:20] <Darkside> you wouldnt want to reuse the balloon
[00:21] <amell> The balloon will rot.
[00:21] <Darkside> they decay in UV, and will get damaged on landing anyway
[00:21] <Darkside> what a valve *is* good for is intentionally floating the balloon
[00:21] <Darkside> i think mattbrejza has done that
[00:21] <Aerospark> any link to his project?
[00:21] <Darkside> dunno sorry
[00:22] <Darkside> you need a large aperture though, as the differential pressure is quite low
[00:22] <wrea> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:helium_valve
[00:24] <Aerospark> awesome, thanks
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[01:52] <malclocke> using RFM22b, I notice this frequency seems to take a while to stabilise at the beginning of each sentence. E.g. it starts at a slightly lower freq and moves up to a steady freq after the first few bytes. is that normal for those chips?
[01:53] <malclocke> and if so, is the solution just null byte padding at the beginning of TX?
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[02:32] <aadamson> hmm arko, I think you are getting rained (or snowed/ice on)
[02:32] <arko> probably, who knows
[02:32] <arko> weather shows storms
[02:32] <arko> i just hope it bounces back
[02:33] <aadamson> i was just looking at the intellicast realtime and there is rain/snow/ice in the area
[02:33] <arko> nothing i can do though, talked to Colorado friends for a recovery
[02:33] <arko> so if it does land it's possible to get it back
[02:33] <aadamson> yep, it just watch the ride time
[02:33] <arko> im off to the pub to pass the time
[02:33] <aadamson> average terrain is approx 6100 feet
[02:33] <aadamson> hehe have fun!
[02:33] <arko> meet with homies
[02:33] <arko> feet?
[02:33] <arko> whats that in meters?
[02:34] <aadamson> I have no clue around 3000
[02:34] <aadamson> 6100 ft
[02:34] <Darkside> 6100 ft
[02:34] <Darkside> aww
[02:34] <aadamson> guess sibot is broken
[02:34] <aadamson> 6100 FT
[02:34] <aadamson> you are at 10000ft
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[02:36] <aadamson> a pretty interesting thing is if you click the google earth kml in aprs.fi, you get live tracing via GE with 3d terrain :)
[02:37] <DL7AD_> 0ft
[02:55] <aadamson> he's still about 1000 ft above the terrain
[02:55] <aadamson> and may be leveling out some... we'll have to see, it warm down there which is good
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[03:24] <aadamson> akro, I think you are going to make kansas :)... best of luck I'm off to bed
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[04:50] <Maxell> morning
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[06:01] <ProSpectre> morning
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[07:21] <SA6BSS> last partial on b-59 $$B-59,89,071517,A40619,51.IESRGE-0T6150C522Y,6,30,4.10,OOM632,9$$Y_,HI%010;@Y
[07:23] <SM5OCI> SA6BSS: Amazing that you heard b-59 on that distance. Do you have a 10m parabolic dish and helium-cooled preamp?
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[07:33] <SA6BSS> hehe, used a south hamton web sdr :)
[07:33] <SA6BSS> *the
[07:34] <SM5OCI> SA6BSS: Cheating!
[07:39] <Darkside> id you're going to do that, at least change the coords in dl-fldigi to match :P
[07:39] <SA6BSS> indeed! :)
[07:40] <craag> I do ask you to on the websdr page :)
[07:40] <SA6BSS> usuly I put dl-fldigi in oflinemode but as there where no other tracking I got online
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[07:41] <craag> Always track in online mode, there's no reason not to
[07:42] <SM5OCI> SA5BSS: Hmmm. How do you get data from the websdr into fl-digi? Can you "connect" fl-digi to the websdr I/Q stream, or can you download data from websdr and pour into fl-digi?
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[07:42] <craag> SM5OCI: The websdr puts out demodulated audio
[07:43] <SA6BSS> SM5OCI: just put the speaker out to mic in on the comp
[07:43] <craag> YOu can then use 'Stereo Mix' or Virtual Audio Cable on Windows computers to get that into the dl-fldigi input
[07:43] <craag> Or a real audio cable from Line Out to Line In :)
[07:43] <SA6BSS> easest thing just loopthe cable
[07:44] <SA6BSS> :)
[07:44] <SM5OCI> craag: Ok, of course... I shoudl have known, but I have limited experience working with audio on Windows.
[07:44] <craag> normally use linux?
[07:45] <SM5OCI> craag: Normally, no. But I would have liked to. Unfortunately, my time is not unlimited...
[07:46] <craag> Ok, just trying to help you out. Give the websdr a go on a UK flight, it's a great way for those of you well out of range to be involved!
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[07:47] <craag> Even multiple people on the websdr with slightly different dl-fldigi settings are increasing the chance of us getting all the telemetry successfully.
[07:48] Action: craag -> work
[07:53] <SM5OCI> Thanks for the information, both about the virtual and non-virtual audio cable, plus the websdr!
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[08:12] <mfa298> SM5OCI: there should be a flight a bit later today if you're wanting to test the websdr out.
[08:12] <mfa298> and I think another planned for tomorrow
[08:12] <mfa298> and probably some over the weekend
[08:13] <fsphil> yea there's a bunch coming up. must be the nice weather
[08:14] <SM5OCI> mfa298: Kool! Unfortunately I am at work today, writing documents... But I will remember the ideas and try it out at a later date. Thanks!
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[08:39] <realflash> Good morning. I'm hoping this morning will be my first successful track. I've gone from temporary antenna (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uw7w3rfjsdzhhq/2014-02-21%2009.23.17.jpg) to permanent antenna (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wh7cdewats66ko5/2014-06-18%2012.39.31.jpg). Here's hoping the extra 10m of height does the trick. I've been able to receive a repeater in Romford from Woking, so I think it's working OK.
[08:40] <UpuWork> that looks more promising
[08:42] <fsphil> that should make a good difference
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[08:42] <MightyMik> looks pretty sweet
[08:45] <SA6BSS> nice to see N6ARA-12 gaining some altitude again
[08:47] <fsphil> oh it's back
[08:47] <daveake> arko is copying Leo :p
[08:47] Nick change: priyesh_ -> priyesh
[08:48] <LZ1DEV> who is uploading N6ARA-12 to the map?
[08:48] <fsphil> not I
[08:49] <UpuWork> hm
[08:49] <UpuWork> not me
[08:49] <fsphil> oh the launch tomorrow is trying FM
[08:50] <fsphil> don't think that's been done in a while
[08:50] <mikestir-work> I saw that on the list - is it afsk or just FSK but with a wider deviation than rtty?
[08:50] <fsphil> afsk
[08:52] <SA6BSS> LZ1DEV: via aprs
[08:52] <LZ1DEV> yes yes, what are you using to upload?
[08:53] <SA6BSS> snus take data from aprs.fi http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=11&call=a%2FN6ARA-12&timerange=21600&tail=21600
[09:00] <nats`> Hey looners !
[09:01] <nats`> someone knows a matlab but for geometry ?
[09:01] <nats`> with 2d ploting
[09:01] <nats`> (if possible free)
[09:02] <nats`> geogebra seems cool
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[09:22] <Chetic> mfa298: I tried sending at 300 baud yesterday but it was completely impossible to decode
[09:23] <Chetic> do you still think it could be the rpi bittiming issue?
[09:23] <fsphil> 2 stop bits?
[09:23] <Chetic> whatever "stty -F /dev/ttyAMA0 300 cs8" gives
[09:23] <Chetic> (probably no)
[09:26] <fsphil> do you have anything else you can use to verify your receiving setup is working ok?
[09:26] <daveake> Chetic> do you still think it could be the rpi bittiming issue?
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[09:26] <Chetic> I have two rtl sdr dongles
[09:26] <daveake> There is no such issue
[09:26] <Chetic> daveake: something about the prescaler at really low baud rates
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[09:27] <daveake> That's not how prescalers work; you can get a problem with higher rates
[09:28] <Chetic> that's what I thought but someone sounded pretty sure it was the issue
[09:28] <daveake> Well I'm someone who doesn't, so there :p
[09:28] <Chetic> damn it I am so sick of this problem
[09:28] <daveake> I've not been following; what are you seeing?
[09:28] <Chetic> where can I buy something with a gps, camera and radio transmitter prebuilt?
[09:29] <daveake> You want me to advertise? :p
[09:29] <Chetic> daveake: rpi+ntx2 has a steady carrier wave but freaks out the higher the baud rate
[09:29] <Chetic> yes
[09:29] <daveake> https://twitter.com/pitsproject
[09:30] <Chetic> how do I get one yesterday?
[09:30] <Chetic> (or last year rather)
[09:30] <daveake> Speak to UpuWork
[09:31] <daveake> The s/w, which I'm tidying up now, will be on github
[09:31] <daveake> Or you'll be able to download an SD card image
[09:32] <Chetic> sounds really nice but...
[09:32] <Chetic> the shame of not succeeding with my own thing
[09:32] <Chetic> which is like 90% done
[09:32] <daveake> So what's actually happening?
[09:33] <Chetic> how much better resolution will I get with a proper radio receiver?
[09:33] <Chetic> ham radio, right?
[09:33] <Chetic> well here's an example: http://i.imgur.com/CvFcqJB.png
[09:33] <daveake> Dunno what you mean by "resolution".
[09:33] <Chetic> better chances to manage decoding stuff
[09:34] <Chetic> able to handle higher bit rates
[09:34] <fsphil> your volume is a bit low
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[09:34] <daveake> Well your problems there are ... a) not enough signal, b) too wide filter bands
[09:34] <fsphil> the waterfall is x4 zoomed
[09:34] <fsphil> the filter might be alright
[09:34] <Chetic> just look at the waterfall
[09:35] <Chetic> does that look alright?
[09:35] <Chetic> it gets noisier at higher baud rates
[09:35] <fsphil> that's normal
[09:35] <daveake> still too wide
[09:35] <fsphil> the noise is the data
[09:35] <Chetic> that's the best decoding I ever did
[09:35] <Chetic> forget fldigi configuration issues
[09:36] <daveake> You should have the signal much stronger than that - needs to be yellow see https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqbAE-vCYAAAUph.png
[09:37] <Chetic> yes I've had that too and still the same issue
[09:37] <Chetic> of not being able to decode very reliably at all
[09:37] <daveake> Note my filter bandwidth is 300Hz which is correct for 300 baud
[09:37] <Chetic> filter bandwidth should always be fixed?
[09:37] <Chetic> to the same as the baud rate?
[09:37] <daveake> You have about 280Hz but it should be about 110
[09:37] <fsphil> it should match the baud rate
[09:38] <fsphil> at least
[09:38] <Chetic> it doesn't matter though I've tried adjusting all that
[09:38] <fsphil> can you make us an audio recording
[09:38] <Chetic> sure, have one..
[09:38] <daveake> Chetic It does matter just do it
[09:38] <Chetic> http://bayfiles.net/file/1g32r/cpefyE/jesus.wav
[09:38] <Chetic> daveake: I have done it
[09:39] <daveake> Well don't undo it!
[09:39] <Chetic> haha fine I'll write it down
[09:39] <daveake> There may be multiple issues just because doing one thing properly doesn't fix it doesn't mean you should undo it
[09:39] <Chetic> what I'm saying is it's not the root cause
[09:40] <daveake> No but if the root cause or main issue is resolved it still won't be right, so set the filter width correctly (just leave it in "Auto")
[09:40] <daveake> Anyone know wtf the "Link encap" messages are in Chetic's screenshot?
[09:41] <fsphil> wave file seems to
[09:41] <fsphil> decode ok
[09:41] <fsphil> I think that's the output from ifconfig
[09:41] <daveake> what's it doing there then? Is that the "telemetry"?
[09:41] <fsphil> console output
[09:42] <fsphil> or he's done ifconfig > /dev/serial
[09:42] <Chetic> haha I just did an echo `ifconfig`>/dev/ttyAMA0
[09:42] <daveake> ah ok cool
[09:42] <Chetic> but ok, can you decode everything in that wave file?
[09:42] <Chetic> how much error is reasonable/expected?
[09:43] <Chetic> how many faulty bytes in percent?
[09:43] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/rM1vLoK.png
[09:43] <daveake> For local rx, assuming you don't have anything else to interfere, it should pretty much be 100%
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[09:43] <Chetic> my setup feels incredibly unstable, and that's in the same building
[09:43] <Chetic> lol fsphil thanks
[09:43] <mfa298> Chetic: with 300 baud have you increased the receive bandwith filter in dl-fldigi - should be at least 300 for 300 baud.
[09:43] <Chetic> can I get a picture with 4x zoom? I really would like to compare
[09:43] <Chetic> mfa298: yes, definitely
[09:44] <fsphil> set yours to x1 :p
[09:44] <daveake> On the Pi side there's very little that can be done wrong - once you've set baud rate/stopbits/etc, then that's that software wise. Then it's down to your wiring and the rx setup
[09:44] <fsphil> that signal looks fine for 50 baud
[09:44] <Chetic> heh ok
[09:44] <Chetic> yeah it has to be my wiring
[09:44] <Chetic> harmonics and whatnot
[09:44] <fsphil> it is quite easy to overload the rtlsdr
[09:45] <Chetic> yeah one of them fail after a while
[09:45] <daveake> Also easy to tune in to an artefact rather than the actual transmission
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[09:45] <fsphil> ah yes
[09:46] <Chetic> the actual transmission will be the strongest though so I'm on the right spot for sure
[09:46] <Chetic> eheh, frequency*
[09:46] <daveake> Not always easy to see which one it is, but yes
[09:46] <Chetic> how about this one?: http://bayfiles.net/file/1g32l/RZ6Jp7/serenitytestcapture1.wav
[09:46] <Chetic> that's on the laptop, and it seems to pop a lot but I can't figure out why
[09:47] <fsphil> that popping can ruin the decoding
[09:47] <Chetic> please note I get about the same amount of errors with it though
[09:47] <Chetic> as without
[09:47] <Chetic> and with two different rtl sdrs
[09:49] <fsphil> bad decoding occurs when it clicks
[09:49] <fsphil> that's a pretty good clue right there :)
[09:49] <fsphil> I've seen the same thing on linux with pulseaudio
[09:49] <fsphil> it introduces a gap in the audio, suddently the timing is all wrong and fldigi makes errors
[09:49] <fsphil> -t
[09:51] <craag> Chetic: What program are you using to run the rtl-sdr?
[09:52] <Chetic> craag: sdr#
[09:52] <craag> On the left and waterfall settings, turn the waterfall resolution down. On the right turn the 'Speed' down too. That'll decrease CPU usage and give your laptop a chance to keep up.
[09:52] <craag> Doesn't affect signal strength or anything.
[09:52] <craag> Just the graphical waterfall
[09:52] <Chetic> I think I tried that? but ok
[09:53] <craag> Also what bandwidth are you using from the rtlsdr?
[09:53] <Chetic> it is NOT the cause of my problem though
[09:53] <Chetic> how do I know?
[09:53] <craag> ok, sorry, only came in when you were talking about gaps in the audio
[09:54] <craag> In the 'configure' button at the top
[09:54] <craag> What's the 'sample rate'
[09:54] <Chetic> uhh.. default
[09:54] <craag> which is?
[09:54] <Chetic> is that 2048kbps?
[09:54] <Chetic> I can't check. at work
[09:54] <craag> You can turn it down to 0.9 Msps
[09:54] <craag> ah ok
[09:55] <fsphil> good idea
[09:56] <Chetic> turn it down? why?
[09:56] <Chetic> except to avoid overload
[09:56] <fsphil> it puts less load on the CPU
[09:56] <fsphil> and capturing 2MHz of bandwidth to decode something less than 1000hz wide is a bit silly :)
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[09:57] <Chetic> heh that makes sense
[09:58] <Chetic> I'm a bit stuck on wanting better performance but that might not be it..
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[09:59] <fsphil> higher sample rates don't improve how it captures your signal. just means it captures more data it then has to throw away
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[10:07] <SpeedEvil> And it may be significantly less sensitive due to interfering signals in the larger captureband
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> If you've got a signal 100 times stronger than your signal 1MHz away - a 2MHz bandwidth means that now your AGC has just wound down and turned your signal to 1% of its former value
[10:11] <craag> Not sure there's actually much filtering on the RTLSDR before the AGC though
[10:11] <craag> At least not much of variable width
[10:13] <craag> But for burning trees sake, and reducing wear on your laptop fan, don't use masses of bandwidth unless you need it.
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[10:15] <Laurenceb_> also the extra ADC sampling rate effectivly increases the number of bits
[10:15] <Laurenceb_> so you get a benefit there
[10:15] <Darkside> er
[10:15] <craag> nope
[10:15] <Darkside> thats only really valid if you have sharp bandpass filtering
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> and if the DSP is better than analog filtering you get better rejection
[10:16] <Darkside> and you get one extra bit per 4x decimation
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> it might go the other way with AGC
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[10:16] <Laurenceb_> if you have a narrow band interferer
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> Dakside: sure
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[10:37] <Chetic> yeah I'll try turning down the bandwidth when I get home
[10:37] <Chetic> which I can't wait for, once again
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[10:41] Nick change: DL7AD__ -> DL7AD
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[10:44] <DL7AD> does someone recover B-59?
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[10:51] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good Morning guys - THARSIS on the map - Who's ready to track?
[10:53] <mattbrejza> YEA LETS DO THIS!!!1!
[10:53] <g0azs> Good morning Steve. I am at home for change and waiting to track here. I see B-59 must have come down near me last night/this morning. Does anyone know if it was recovered?
[10:54] <Steve_G0TDJ> g0azs: Not seen any mention of it. Why don't you see if you can find it ;-)
[10:54] <Steve_G0TDJ> mattbrejza: Are you at the launch site?
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[10:55] <mattbrejza> lol no
[10:55] <g0azs> Maybe later Steve...
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[10:55] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm looking forwad to meeting you at the conference mattbrejza
[10:55] <Steve_G0TDJ> g0azs: Cool
[10:56] <mattbrejza> yea conference will be good :D
[10:56] <Steve_G0TDJ> Where you there last year?
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[11:00] <mattbrejza> yea, i did a talk
[11:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Which one?
[11:01] <mattbrejza> error correction
[11:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> Was that late on?
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[11:02] <Steve_G0TDJ> I was with daveake doing the RasPi stuff. I know there was something going on at the same time.
[11:03] <mattbrejza> na it was during the morning session
[11:03] <daveake> You need another excuse now Steve_G0TDJ :p
[11:03] <Steve_G0TDJ> My uselss memory! :D Anyway, be sure to say Hi - LOL at daveake
[11:03] <mattbrejza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Urttk8BK7kbm0tRi14T1E4aWs/edit?usp=sharing
[11:04] <craag> It was the one with the graphs that went over everyones heads
[11:04] <daveake> not just mine then :)
[11:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> THAT's it! I must have blocked it :D
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[11:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> *doesn't really remember*
[11:04] <mattbrejza> i hope the graphs made reasonable sense even if my explaination of Eb/N0 didnt
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[11:04] <Steve_G0TDJ> Me and math - Pfft - No hope
[11:05] <mattbrejza> the math is simple but exactly why you do it is less obvious
[11:05] <mattbrejza> only has log10 :P
[11:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> Maybe you can try and explain it again over a pint LOL
[11:05] <mattbrejza> not sure the pint would help :P
[11:05] <mfa298> it seemed to make sense at the time. But so did some of the Uni lectures I did and I don't remember much of them. although that could be the years passing
[11:05] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'm sure it would dull my brain enough ;-)
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[11:06] <mattbrejza> i might do a talk on tomorrows thing depending on how it goes, but i wont have any technical detail this time :P
[11:06] <fsphil> aww
[11:06] <mattbrejza> well there will haev to be some detail
[11:06] <mattbrejza> but not how it works
[11:07] <Steve_G0TDJ> AFK - BRB
[11:07] <fsphil> BBS LOL
[11:07] <daveake> I was hoping for a special guest appearance on the subject "how to blow away the altirude record with a huge box"
[11:08] <daveake> +t-r
[11:08] <fsphil> someone from mexico coming?
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> daveake: that's easy
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/about/capabilities
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[11:09] <fsphil> sneak it onto the next spacex launch?
[11:09] <daveake> :)
[11:09] <mattbrejza> send a cubesat with a little balloon on the inside and claim youve beaten the balloon altitude record
[11:09] <mattbrejza> totally legit etc
[11:09] <fsphil> the russian venus balloons have that beat
[11:10] <fsphil> highest altitude balloons ever (relative to earth)
[11:10] <mattbrejza> oh lol nm
[11:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> Phew....
[11:10] <fsphil> until someone does a Titan HAB
[11:10] <mattbrejza> do some landers haev airbags? do they count?
[11:11] <fsphil> hmmm,, maybe
[11:11] <fsphil> though not a lifting gas
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[11:14] <fsphil> they've bound to have had a balloon on a space shuttle or the ISS at some point
[11:15] <fsphil> there have been sillier things
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[11:24] <Jess--M0VBR> A balloon on the shuttle or ISS wouldn't count, you can't have a lifting gas in zero G
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[11:28] <aadamson> wooo hooo, - arko made Kansas, but now he's about to head into the *ugly* weather
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[11:39] <fsphil> floating again
[11:39] <fsphil> more or less
[11:41] <SA6BSS> how long should the battery last on arko:s balloon??
[11:43] <aadamson> probably a couple of days at a guess
[11:43] <aadamson> it's been up now what probably close to 36hours
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[11:44] <aadamson> I believe it's an AAA lithium which if memory serves me is about 1300mah +/-
[11:49] <SA6BSS> reading scrollback, he guessed 2-3 days
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[12:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Any news on THARSIS?
[12:08] <aadamson> old info - but OH MY.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244515/Adventurer-attaches-55-helium-balloons-office-chair-soar-15-000-feet.html
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[12:09] <daveake> #THARSIS we are going to have to delay launch for at least an hour due to a techinical issue. Will keep you updated.
[12:09] <daveake> ^ from the twitter feed
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[12:10] <jonsowman> someone forgot to buy batteries
[12:10] <mattbrejza> oh that reminds me, need to go via asda tomorrow jonsowman
[12:10] <SA6BSS> aadamson: the original flying chair http://www.markbarry.com/lawnchairman.html
[12:10] <Darkside> that happens
[12:10] <mattbrejza> and spanner
[12:10] <mattbrejza> do you have one?
[12:10] <jonsowman> no
[12:11] <mattbrejza> craag: do you have a spanner?
[12:11] <mattbrejza> like 15mm?
[12:11] <mattbrejza> or adjustable
[12:11] <craag> I have an aj
[12:11] <mattbrejza> had to check ed wasnt around before suggesting that :P
[12:12] <aadamson> SA6BSS, reminds me of UP! :)
[12:12] <mattbrejza> craag: cool, we need it to attach reg to He
[12:12] <craag> + molegrips
[12:12] <craag> sure
[12:12] <SA6BSS> yeap, its does
[12:12] <mattbrejza> hows the car btw?
[12:12] <craag> No word on it yet
[12:12] <jonsowman> lol it's not 15mm
[12:13] <mattbrejza> 20?
[12:13] <jonsowman> 27 i think
[12:13] <mattbrejza> lol maybe
[12:16] <mfa298> If you find you still need one I've got a large AJ at home I can throw at someone this evening
[12:17] Action: mfa298 won't literally throw it as that could be dangerous
[12:17] <mattbrejza> yea that isnt on the risk assessment
[12:18] <mfa298> sounds like the RA isn't complete then ...
[12:18] <mattbrejza> RAs dont have to cover generic stupidity
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[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> daveake: Cheers, just spotted your post
[12:21] <Tramvai> Hey guys. What is the recommended balloon for
[12:21] <Tramvai> a 550g payload?
[12:21] <daveake> depends how you want to go
[12:21] <Tramvai> Would a 700g balloon suffice?
[12:22] <Tramvai> 30km altitude would be prefferred. Not too worried about the ascent rate'
[12:22] <UpuWork> insert "high" in there
[12:22] <daveake> ta :)
[12:22] <daveake> Use the burst calculator for a 5m/s ascent rate
[12:22] <mfa298> Tramvai: best bet is to play with the burst calc habhub.org/calc - you probably want around 5m/s ascent rate (unless you want it to float and not burst)
[12:23] <mfa298> snap
[12:23] <Tramvai> Hahaha, cheers
[12:24] <Tramvai> Great link, thanks guys.
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[12:27] <Tramvai> Can you explain to me the difference between Totex and Hwoyee balloons? There's a drastic price difference between them, even though the characteristics don't really seem different
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[12:33] <gonzo__> country of manufacture?
[12:33] <Upu> Totex are generally more consistant and reliable than Hwoyee
[12:34] <Upu> Hwoyee are less consistant, less reliable but generally do go higher
[12:34] <Tramvai> Totex e
[12:34] <Tramvai> seems really expensive compared to the other manufacturers.
[12:35] <UpuWork> if you want consistancy
[12:35] <UpuWork> i.e if you do 5m/s it will burst close to the suggested altitude
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[12:35] <UpuWork> Hwoyee are totally random some times
[12:35] <Tramvai> Alright, thanks Upu
[12:36] <UpuWork> Hwoyee make things more exciting
[12:36] <daveake> We've had Hwoyee 1600's burst at 27km with 100g payload, and a 1200 do 40km with best part of kilo under it
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[12:37] <Tramvai> I like lottery
[12:37] <SgtBurned> I like turrrttttlllesss
[12:37] <jededu> It s there any reason why I cannot get a lock with the sarantel gps antenna on a ublox7q when it works ok with an active antenna?
[12:38] <UpuWork> outside ?
[12:38] <jededu> yes
[12:38] <daveake> broken sarantel
[12:38] <jededu> Its a new one from upu
[12:38] <UpuWork> is this a breakout board or one you soldered yourself ?
[12:38] <jededu> soldered it
[12:38] <daveake> broken sarantel
[12:38] <daveake> :p
[12:39] <UpuWork> send me some close up pics of the setup and the soldering
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[12:39] <jededu> ok
[12:39] <UpuWork> I've yet to see a broken SL1252R
[12:39] <UpuWork> apart from the one a school child snapped off clean
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[12:42] <Tramvai> For a 600g payload I would need a 3ft parachute, right?
[12:42] <ulfr> depends on how fast you want it to descent
[12:43] <Tramvai> Slow enough for the polystyrene casing to protect the contents inside. I don't really have an idea for the usual descent speeds.
[12:44] <ulfr> it's going to descent on 4.2m/s ~
[12:44] <daveake> See the calculator at the bottom of http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html and aim for 5m/s
[12:44] <ulfr> which is slow, and nice.
[12:44] <ulfr> but might cause a bit of drift
[12:46] <jededu> upu pm
[12:46] <Jess--M0VBR> UpuWork: on the subject of gps and antennas have you ever come across one of your max 6 boards with the chip antenna failing to lock, I have one here that worked perfectly for a flight but then failed to lock when we attempted a second flight
[12:47] <UpuWork> they can get locked out
[12:47] <UpuWork> quite easily
[12:47] <UpuWork> I would test it away from anything else like cameras etc
[12:48] <Jess--M0VBR> tested as bare gps powered by ftdi breakout board
[12:48] <Jess--M0VBR> 45 minutes under open sky with no lock
[12:49] <Jess--M0VBR> I'm suspecting dry / cracked joint
[12:49] <UpuWork> possibly
[12:49] <UpuWork> send it back I'll take a look
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[13:02] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DgLBIdVg3EM Caution - contains cows.
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> (and a medium altitude rocket)
[13:06] <Jess--M0VBR> I'll get it under a decent magnifying glass, if nothing looks obvious I'll send it back
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[13:18] <mfa298> latest tweet suggests launch in next 30 minutes
[13:18] <mfa298> https://twitter.com/marsballoon/status/479613782873108480
[13:20] <mattbrejza> not sure that counts as 'back on track'
[13:21] <mattbrejza> making full use of hab time
[13:21] <daveake> It's a new track
[13:21] <SgtBurned> MARSBalloon ?
[13:21] <fsphil> virgin now run the track
[13:21] <daveake> Turning into a marathon
[13:21] <mfa298> if only they knew to use the #ukhas tag
[13:22] <mfa298> maybe it was the wrong sort of leaves on the line so they had to change to a different track
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[13:23] <craag> I notice the embedded mobile tracker on their page isn't working
[13:24] <mfa298> worked for me, it looks to just be an iframe for /mt
[13:24] <craag> well it doesn't show THARSIS, whereas habmap does
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[13:25] <mfa298> I could see THARSIS on it. But then I can also see snus on this machine
[13:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> quite early launch for b-59, and short flight :(
[13:26] <craag> "No vehicles :("
[13:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> amazing height-profile for N6ARA-12
[13:29] <LeoBodnar> oh, CATHARSIS is launching?
[13:30] <SgtBurned> craag you still got no vehicles?
[13:33] <SgtBurned> Some newb in Birmingham is launching. amazing software though, Must admit quite impressive.
[13:33] <craag> SgtBurned: http://i.imgur.com/jRBrYAO.png
[13:34] <SgtBurned> clear cookies / cache?
[13:34] <SgtBurned> Have you saved it for offline use? Only thing I can think of.
[13:35] <craag> Done Crtl+Shft+r, opened in incognito window, nothing enabled in the settings
[13:35] <LeoBodnar> who are you SgtBurned?
[13:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> working fine for mee
[13:36] <craag> anyway, not an issue if it's just me. Just flagging it up incase it wasn't!
[13:38] <UpuWork> 14:34] <MARSBalloon> Hi all, THARSIS is inflating, about to launch
[13:38] <UpuWork> [14:34] <MARSBalloon> Just FYI
[13:39] <SgtBurned> LeoBodnar: Some idiot. Don't mind me.
[13:39] <SgtBurned> Wait, KD2E-11 was launched out in the sea?
[13:40] <SgtBurned> Oh, Was already at 16,000. Nvm most likely just reconnected.
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[13:43] <mfa298> I had similar issues with the mobile tracker after the gmaps api change. I've mostly been using habmap since.
[13:44] <SgtBurned> craag: You running through a proxy or VPN by any chance xD
[13:44] <jededu> Sarantel seems to have a good lock now 8 sats
[13:45] <craag> SgtBurned: Nope. standard 4meg adsl here. habmap and snus both work
[13:45] <tweetBot> @marsballoon: #UKHAS #THARSIS about to launch!
[13:48] <SgtBurned> craag: That is a strange situation.
[13:50] <mfa298> SgtBurned: I think it may be due to the gmaps api changes a while ago. I've had similar issues with the mobile tracker on other systems and similarly issues with spacenear.us on some systems/browsers
[13:50] <SgtBurned> Ahh. Sounds like a problem similar / same.
[13:50] <SgtBurned> craag: Last time you used it?
[13:51] <craag> The mobile tracker... haven't used it in ages. habmap ftw :)
[13:53] <SgtBurned> xD
[13:53] <SgtBurned> Anyway you can clear stored info from it?
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[13:58] <tweetBot> @marsballoon: #UKHAS Launched!
[14:02] <daveake> 2.3m/s is a tad slow
[14:02] <daveake> oh, 0.7 ....
[14:03] <SgtBurned> Oh my
[14:04] <SgtBurned> 0.2m/s
[14:05] <mattbrejza> looks like they used BOC's 95% nitrogen 5% hydrogen
[14:05] <jonsowman> lol
[14:05] <mfa298> some of the telem before launch looks suspiciously flat.
[14:05] <daveake> yeah was 0m for a while then they launched
[14:05] <mfa298> almost as if it didn't have lock - but based on last nights stuff there's no way of knwoing.
[14:06] <craag> wet prediction :/
[14:06] <craag> and that's for a 30km burst
[14:07] <daveake> now 5m/s
[14:08] <g0azs> RX here now with dial at 434.65065 Audio 1500hz - no decodes yet though
[14:08] <SgtBurned> Back to low..
[14:08] <daveake> g0azs Yeah same here
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[14:08] <daveake> Not the published frequency
[14:09] <g0azs> Drifting up
[14:09] <daveake> Shame we don't know # of sats, so this could be poor gps signals or dodgy NMEA parsing
[14:10] <mattbrejza> i make that 4.5m/s
[14:10] <rmmm> sorry just joined, is the #tharsis frequency not as published?
[14:11] <mattbrejza> $*FFFF <rx string
[14:11] <daveake> SNUS panel says 434.654; it's about .650
[14:13] <MightyMik> it's in websdr's blind spot isn't it
[14:14] <mfa298> I think I could see traces of it on the websdr just below .650
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[14:14] <g0azs> Hmm getting quite a bit weaker now with me.
[14:15] <g0azs> 434.6514 dial for 1500 hz audio
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[14:17] <SgtBurned> Tharsis is going crazy. 0.2m/s then 8.6m/s ?
[14:17] <SgtBurned> I think someone fed it too much sugar before liftoff.
[14:18] <g0azs> At that altitude and distance it would normally be blowing my ears out... but it's not
[14:18] <g0azs> I havent had one decode yet... interesting.
[14:18] <mfa298> looking at that altitue graph it's either loosing lock. or there's some code bug. But as we don't know sats/ lock status there's not much chance of finding out
[14:19] <mattbrejza> do we know gps?
[14:19] <mattbrejza> either way at least they know where it is unlike last time
[14:19] <mattbrejza> *gps model
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[14:19] <mfa298> I'm assuming ublox although I'm not sure I've seen anything to confirm that.
[14:19] <daveake> The signal here is very weak too
[14:20] <fsphil> I'm not listening if that helps
[14:20] Action: fsphil forgot to switch on the radio this-morning
[14:20] <mfa298> but from the telem in the logs last night they seem to be doing the absolute bare minimum.
[14:21] Action: mfa298 has the radio on, but control via rdp+vnc is super slow (ssh tunnel for vnc direct seems to fail)
[14:21] <SgtBurned> Levelling out... This launch seems to be strange.
[14:21] <SgtBurned> Jeez. almost 20m/s
[14:21] <daveake> Is there a bounty for finding marsballoon?
[14:21] <craag> SgtBurned: It's just the gps altitude lagging
[14:21] <fsphil> a previous marsballoon flight landed after it got weighted down with snow
[14:22] <SgtBurned> daveake: I'm sure they'd pay a ransom notice ;)
[14:22] <fsphil> strange flights are not new for them :)
[14:22] <craag> The balloon is probably going up normally
[14:22] <SgtBurned> seems like it.
[14:22] <gonzo_> marshmallows at 30,000mtrs
[14:22] <gonzo_> not sure I'd want to recover that one
[14:22] <gonzo_> could be alot of pink sticky about
[14:22] <SgtBurned> tasty ;D
[14:23] <gonzo_> (and that's not daves gaffa)
[14:23] <daveake> do keep it on topic
[14:23] <realflash> Is the altitude chart in UTC?
[14:24] <SgtBurned> Yeah
[14:24] <SgtBurned> So GMT-1
[14:24] <daveake> No, GMT
[14:24] <daveake> BST-1
[14:24] <realflash> BST-1
[14:25] <realflash> Is the Y-axis in m or feet?
[14:25] <gonzo_> but anyone doing recover of thios, will have to keep an eye out
[14:25] <SgtBurned> *Is still asleep*
[14:26] <SgtBurned> meters
[14:26] <gonzo_> it's not a strong signal. Another local, not in the valley I am in reports it as weak also
[14:26] <SgtBurned> It's been a long day and I have only just noticed I am wearing one pink sock and one green...
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[14:27] <SgtBurned> They did have technical problems earlier.
[14:27] <SgtBurned> Could have missed something.
[14:28] <g0azs> Shift is also narrowing. More like 460 hz now
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[14:30] <SgtBurned> Where is the raw data again ( I need to bookmark it again )
[14:30] <fsphil> sounds like a classic ntx2
[14:30] <UpuWork> very weak signal
[14:30] <fsphil> with a poor antenna
[14:31] <Jess--M0VBR> just appearing on waterfall in lincs
[14:31] <tweetBot> @marsballoon: #UKHAS #THARSIS The chase begins
[14:31] <fsphil> yay
[14:32] <g0azs> Very... maybe it's horizontally polarised??
[14:32] <mfa298> I saw it briefly on the waterfal before tuning past it.
[14:32] <daveake> The lat/long are changing even when the alt locks
[14:33] <daveake> oh dear ....
[14:33] <daveake> it's apparently near me now
[14:33] <g0azs> Teleporting
[14:33] <mattbrejza> sigh, if using nmea just strcopy...
[14:34] <daveake> what, and miss a great many opportunities to get it wrong? :p
[14:34] <mfa298> and just crash landed looking at the altitude
[14:35] <Steve_G0TDJ> Can't have gone down, I can still hear it her (just)
[14:35] <g0azs> Signal barely there now
[14:35] <UpuWork> drifty weak generally horrible
[14:36] <mattbrejza> tbh i nice stable signal is boring? :P
[14:36] <fsphil> bring out the yagis
[14:36] <chrisg7ogx> just gone in bognor regis
[14:36] <mfa298> I hope it didn't crashland as it could have broken the laws of physics if it did, 11km in 20seconds would be impressive
[14:37] <daveake> That's its Beagle2 impersonation
[14:37] <chrisg7ogx> now here again
[14:37] <fsphil> only with more signal
[14:37] <daveake> just
[14:37] <LeoBodnar> stranger things happen on Mars
[14:37] <chrisg7ogx> ..and at sea
[14:37] <chrisg7ogx> MH370?
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[14:38] <g8fjg_ron> still v pol shift at 430 hz
[14:38] <gonzo_> I met prob pilinger, he did an amsat lecture just after the landing
[14:38] <fsphil> I really hoped he'd get a second chance at it
[14:39] <gonzo_> they were stuffed by nasa basically
[14:40] <chrisg7ogx> his enthusiasm and normal -ness(?) came across
[14:42] <gonzo_> he played on the mad professor bit for the PR value
[14:42] <chrisg7ogx> conciously?
[14:42] <gonzo_> I think so
[14:43] <chrisg7ogx> aw mind you if you believed in something so much I don't blame him
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[14:45] <chrisg7ogx> shift still reducing now 380
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[14:53] <gonzo_> bat voltage sagging?
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[14:57] <gonzo_> if it lands anywhere near the predicted, i'll be in that area in a few hrs
[14:58] <Steve_G0TDJ> Wow, actually got a partial: $$THARSIS$6065,14576v40.y847(4,2,283Is#/9hSIs,60872457
[14:59] <UpuWork-> I got loads of partials :)
[14:59] <UpuWork-> just nothing actual
[14:59] <UpuWork-> oh wow got one
[14:59] <Steve_G0TDJ> Not exactly the most thrilling of telemetry....
[14:59] <UpuWork-> its not very happy
[14:59] <UpuWork-> it just transmitted $*FFFF
[14:59] <UpuWork-> $*FFFF
[15:00] <SgtBurned> xD
[15:00] <Steve_G0TDJ> Saw that
[15:00] <UpuWork-> and we *may* have some padding issues
[15:00] <mattbrejza> its just a preamble with a checksum so you know its a legit preamble
[15:01] <Steve_G0TDJ> 20k and it's getting lost in the noise?.....
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[15:06] <Steve_G0TDJ> Altitude 0 - I don't think so...
[15:07] <UpuWork-> yeah we have some coding issues
[15:07] <SgtBurned> "some"
[15:07] <UpuWork-> has anyone noticed the count
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[15:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> I got a couple of 6000s earlier
[15:08] <G0WXI> Is Tharsis on advertised freq?
[15:08] <UpuWork-> its not going up one at a tgime
[15:09] <SgtBurned> 434.650Mhz 50 7n2
[15:09] <G0WXI> Thanks
[15:09] <SgtBurned> Wrong one
[15:09] <SgtBurned> Sorry.
[15:09] <SgtBurned> It shows in top left on spacenear.us/tracker
[15:10] <SgtBurned> That one might be right actually...
[15:10] <G0WXI> I can't Rx anything, is it a weak signal?
[15:11] <mattbrejza> very
[15:11] <G0WXI> Ok, thanks
[15:12] <daveake> Well at least the gps is in flight mode. I think.
[15:12] <daveake> Otherwise they'd have the full set with this one
[15:12] <fsphil> weirdly this team have flown before
[15:12] <fsphil> this stuff should be working
[15:13] <mattbrejza> i didnt think they flew one of these trackers last time?
[15:13] <fsphil> ooh where they the group that flew the 868mhz tracker?
[15:14] <fsphil> so many flights its hard to remember
[15:14] <mattbrejza> yea i think they may have been using zigbees
[15:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> Almost got one: $$THARSIS,7005,151526,0.67085,-.347829,0*8245
[15:19] <realflash> I've got two beeps close together every second. Is that related?
[15:21] <SgtBurned> is 7005 the counter?
[15:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> yes
[15:22] <MightyMik> it just sounds weird here]
[15:22] <g8fjg_ron> gone unstable
[15:22] <Steve_G0TDJ> Burst?
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[15:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> ...real, not imaginary
[15:24] <realflash> Is anyone else using GQRX? What filter width should I use?
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[15:26] <fsphil> standard filter width is fine
[15:26] <g8fjg_ron> not using gqrx but using 1.8khz b/w 400 hz shift
[15:26] <fsphil> I think it defaults to 3khz?
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[15:26] <fsphil> (this is gqrx usb filter)
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[15:26] <fsphil> no point going over 4khz, fldigi can't use that much. but you want enough to allow fldigi to track the signal as it drifts
[15:27] <fsphil> without having to constantly retune
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[15:29] <realflash> OK thanks. I'll stick with "Normal!
[15:29] <fsphil> what OS are you using it on?
[15:30] <realflash> Lubuntu
[15:30] <Steve_G0TDJ_> THARSIS gone
[15:30] <LeoBodnar> has THARSIS landed?
[15:30] <LeoBodnar> it's one huge step for a balloon
[15:30] <g8fjg_ron> still txing
[15:31] <realflash> What freq are you on Ron?
[15:31] <g8fjg_ron> 434.6374
[15:31] <g8fjg_ron> rubbish 434.6474
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[15:33] <g8fjg_ron> lost it now
[15:34] <Jess--M0VBR> All I managed was 1 partial
[15:35] <SgtBurned> Post it here?
[15:35] <Jess--M0VBR> it's old... from when others were receiving it cleanly so no gain in fixing it
[15:36] <SgtBurned> Ahh okay.
[15:37] <g8fjg_ron> its still there partial on 7993
[15:37] <fsphil> tricky flight from the sounds of it
[15:37] <fsphil> hopefully they had a backup
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[15:38] <Jess--M0VBR> Ox17 just got a clean decode, looks like its reporting altitude again
[15:38] <fsphil> 0x17 seems to have a good setup
[15:44] <g8fjg_ron> sig gone for me now
[15:45] <g8fjg_ron> time to do dinner ...
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[15:51] <mattbrejza> gone here, some partials here perhaps: http://pastie.org/9305614
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[16:12] <LeoBodnar> I like the fit people are having over WIDE2-1 path use on balloons on GPSL
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[16:13] <LeoBodnar> "There are probably those in the APRS and specifically the HAB community who think of themselves as being more important that anyone else, and who feel they are entitled to use any and all infrastructure out there any way they feel like it because "I'm important... more important than anyone else out there!""
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> "I'm sorry, but it those kind of people and those attitudes that end up ruining it for others."
[16:14] <mattbrejza> does wide2-1 actually cause issues, or are people seeing a few more packets with a balloon overhead, seeing its wide2-1, and getting somehow concerned?
[16:14] <LeoBodnar> FFS! if(altitude > 1000m) do {ignore packet};
[16:15] <LeoBodnar> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gpsl/conversations/messages/14130
[16:15] <LeoBodnar> onus is on infrastructure to deal with packets
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> path or no path digi will hear it anyway
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> digi know that it's in the middle of manhattan
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> balloon does not
[16:17] <mattbrejza> lol aprs
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[16:17] <craag> 'Flying and recovering payloads with a no-hop path.'
[16:17] <craag> We do that too!
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> if one balloon can bring down the whole of U.S.A. APRS network infrastructure it's a shit infrastructure
[16:18] <Guest48256> Does anyone know where I can get a grant for HABing (I'm 12)
[16:18] <tweetBot> @Project_HAB: Receiving voice communications on 143.625MHz FM from ISS EVA #hamr #ukhas
[16:18] <mattbrejza> is there something worse than a wide1-2?
[16:18] <LeoBodnar> grant as in free money?
[16:18] <jonsowman> Guest48256: does your school have funding for STEM activities?
[16:19] <Guest48256> Not that I am aware of
[16:19] <Guest48256> ...?
[16:19] <jonsowman> worth enquiring
[16:19] <jonsowman> we found the PTA at our high school to be a good source of funding as well, they tend to like projects like HAB
[16:19] <Guest48256> what is the STEM web address (can't find it on google)
[16:20] <jonsowman> I'm just talking about STEM in general, not specific groups
[16:20] <jonsowman> HAB definitely falls into the STEM category
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> WIDE1-* is for really local stuff
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> like an RF blackspot between Tesco and a local dump
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> so WIDE1-* is really pointless for balloons
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> unless it lands between the Tesco and the dump
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> WIDE2-* is wider infrastructure
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> a lot of them are on the mountain tops
[16:22] <LeoBodnar> they can extend the reach from 300km to 600km
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> which happens often in Scandinavia, Spain, Med, Turkey, etc
[16:24] <chrisstubbs> Guest48256, our local council is throwing money at schools for STEM activities, talk to your science/tech teachers and see if they can fund the school to do a launch
[16:28] <Guest48256> Thanks for the good ideas, guys
[16:29] <jonsowman> you'll get funding from somewhere, have a chat with teachers about it :)
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[16:50] <LeoBodnar> I'd sum up APRS disussion as "Use either WIDE2-1 or no path at all"
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> according to a coin toss
[16:51] <arko> hah
[16:51] <arko> they get their jimmies russled easy
[16:51] <arko> rather than fix and improve their network, they want to leave it as is and complain
[16:52] <LeoBodnar> Also bringing up APRS path discussion should be on the same level as politics, religion and other NSFW items
[16:52] <arko> hahaha
[16:52] <mattbrejza> transmitting on repeater input freqs?
[16:52] <LeoBodnar> well there is nothing to fix, it has been designed broken
[16:53] <LeoBodnar> the whole WIDE*-* thing is atually called "New Paradigm"
[16:53] <LeoBodnar> and has been squeezed in kicking and screaming into something that hasn't been designed for that
[16:53] <Laurenceb_> Cloud path
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> a new incentive for your message empowerment
[16:54] <LeoBodnar> CLOUD9-1
[16:54] <arko> lol
[16:56] <Guest48256> Which microprocessors do you use?
[16:56] <Guest48256> Best one
[16:57] <mfa298> Guest48256: usually whichever the person making the payload is happiest with.
[16:58] <Guest48256> What would be the eaiest one (less headaches)
[16:58] <mfa298> although the majority is probably with Arduino
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> Which ones do you use Guest48256 ?
[16:59] <mfa298> If you don't have any microprocessor experience Arduino is probably the easiest option as there's plenty of examples out there (including the ukhas wiki) but it shouldn't be hard to convert to something else if you have experience of it.
[17:00] <aadamson> politics, religion, *add aprs* duly noted - sigh
[17:03] <LeoBodnar> there is also a trend in some countries to use crap (portable with a ducky) hardware as igates so there is almost no chance to get through unless quiet signal has been digipeated by a powerful local digi
[17:04] <aadamson> I think *some* of the challenge over here is two fold - most (not all) commercial solutions don't support dynamic paths; some users are really "appliance operators"
[17:05] <aadamson> and I would say to some extent that comment about equipment is true here as well
[17:06] <aadamson> some of the digis and igate are/were after throughts to existing repeater locations
[17:06] <aadamson> mag mounts on the top of the repeater cabinet for antennas
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[17:15] <LeoBodnar> that was not a called for
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[17:22] <Jess--M0VBR> LeoBodnar: any B Launches coming up?
[17:22] <arko> lol
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[17:29] <mfa298> Jess--M0VBR: he obviously doesn't like such qestions ;)
[17:29] <mfa298> he seems to like launching when we're least expecting it. I think the last couple have been middle of the night
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[17:33] <aadamson> was there any attempt to recover B-59?
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[17:36] <aadamson> arko, getting to rack up another state... Nebraska only approx 10km away ! doing good staying *behind* that line of storm in front of it!
[17:36] <aadamson> getting ready ...
[17:36] <arko> :)
[17:37] <aadamson> is the path still expected to turn you north?
[17:37] <arko> yeah i dont expect it to make it through the day tbh
[17:37] <mfa298> I'd just seen the map, Impressive flight
[17:37] <arko> but you never know
[17:37] <arko> yeah, going north into more storms
[17:37] <aadamson> it's hard to tell with lithium, but when they go, they go *fast*
[17:37] <arko> the payload is essentially surface the wave front of a high pressure zone
[17:37] <aadamson> not sure if you'd done this... but
[17:37] <aadamson> if you go to aprs.fi
[17:38] <aadamson> (login or get an account)
[17:38] <aadamson> there will be a google earth kml link on the right
[17:38] <aadamson> click that and it will launch Google earth (assuming you have it installed)
[17:38] <aadamson> with semi live updates
[17:38] <aadamson> *and*, you can turn on weather in GE and have all the data
[17:39] <aadamson> except for wind prediction
[17:39] <aadamson> :)
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[17:39] <aadamson> I should have prefaced that with "set n6ara-12 to be what you are tracking in aprs.fi
[17:39] <mfa298> there's a kml link on snus as well which I assume has the aprs imported flights. although that's getting 2nd hand data in this case
[17:40] <aadamson> mfa298, I knew I had seen that before, but didn't think about looking there
[17:40] <aadamson> when I did this the first time I thought the radar data was *at altitude*, but alas it's not - that would have been really cool
[17:41] <mfa298> heh, tried the kml link on snus on the work PC, it wantes to open in FF, which then leads to it wanting to load it in FF, ....
[17:41] <arko> yeah, i over did the downloads on the kml
[17:41] <arko> now i have to wait :/
[17:41] <aadamson> hehe ...
[17:42] <arko> i need to find the guy in finland who runs it
[17:42] <arko> he's usually in here
[17:42] <arko> i forget his callsign, im terrible with callsigns
[17:43] <aadamson> yeah, when you do, tell him he broke the telemetry bits recently, they don't show anymore
[17:45] <aadamson> I sent him email and posted a note on their forum, but no response... maybe he's on holiday
[17:46] <aadamson> it's OH7 something
[17:46] <aadamson> btw, did it take a little nap on the ground in Co last night for a couple of hours?
[17:47] <aadamson> I watched it until it started to climb, but then noticed this morning that it had been off the air for about 2 hours
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[17:54] <arko> yeah me too
[17:55] <arko> went to a drink up last night to ease the pain of losing the hab, got home, clicked my heels, crashed out on my bed, woke up to find it in kansas
[17:55] <arko> these B payloads always do something magical
[17:58] <aadamson> hehe, indeed.
[17:58] <aadamson> wow, hysplit looks more like a hurricane strings model that a flight path ;)
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[17:59] <arko> ?
[17:59] <arko> link?
[17:59] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/168613_trj001.gif
[18:00] <aadamson> ran at 6000,7000, 7500 I believe
[18:00] <arko> yikes
[18:01] <arko> i'm happy as of yesterdays flight/touchdown?, anything now is just extra credit
[18:01] <aadamson> there ya go...
[18:01] <arko> i'd like to enter canada though, i just hope the battery lives
[18:01] <aadamson> motivation :)
[18:02] <aadamson> I'm betting 2-3 days... 2 for sure I would think
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[18:02] Nick change: Guest48256 -> arjun_12
[18:03] <aadamson> what is it approx 36 hrs so far?
[18:03] <arjun_12> daveake how did you do the live streaming
[18:03] <arko> so far
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[18:06] <arjun_12> daveake how did you do the live streaming
[18:06] <arjun_12> whoops - sorry for the double post
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[18:13] <daveake> arjun_12 batc.tv
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[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:37] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi
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[18:59] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:59] <jonsowman> evening
[18:59] <arko> ahoy
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[19:02] <B10S> Hi
[19:03] <jcoxon> arko, great news with the flight
[19:03] <jcoxon> i though it might have descended too far
[19:04] <arko> :)
[19:04] <arko> this is just icing on the cake
[19:04] <arko> i just wanted to float
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[19:13] <nosebleedkt> hi evreyone !
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[19:17] <Upu> evening all
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:24] <fsphil> half way arko!
[19:27] <arko> :D
[19:27] <arko> its coming for you guys kinda..
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[19:28] <fsphil> is it doing contestia at all?
[19:28] Action: jcoxon constructs his new office chair
[19:28] <jcoxon> very exiciting
[19:28] <fsphil> lol
[19:28] <fsphil> a good chair is very important
[19:28] <jcoxon> yes
[19:28] <jcoxon> far better then the old one, so much pain
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[19:33] <Jess--M0VBR> Upu: Gps I was talking about earlier is now working, dry joint on the antenna connection to the ublox
[19:34] <Upu> oh ok odd not had that before
[19:34] <Upu> glad you sorted it
[19:35] <Jess--M0VBR> as it was it would sit for about 30 minutes before getting time and then never lock on, it's just locked in 4 minutes indoors
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[19:49] <arjun_12> Hi
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[19:55] <jcoxon> chair complete
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[20:00] <jededu> Does anybody know the link to the information on launching Balloons of < 2m
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> are committed to chairing it jcoxon ?
[20:01] <jededu> found it
[20:03] <jededu> The link to CAP393 is invalid on the wiki
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[20:10] <arjun_14> Silly question (can't find it on the wiki (probably so obvious)) but in Fldigi, it asks me for a call sign...what do I put
[20:11] <mikestir> doesn't matter - just put your initials or something. you'd normally put your amateur radio callsign if you are licenced
[20:11] <arjun_14> do i need a license
[20:11] <mikestir> no
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> it's a name you will show up on a map under
[20:13] <arjun_14> what is QTH
[20:13] <mfa298> QTH is location
[20:14] <fsphil> You don't have to fill in that bit
[20:14] <mfa298> for the map the only bit on that screen you need is Call (think of it more like a nickname)
[20:14] <arjun_14> thanks
[20:15] <mfa298> it then needs lat/long/altitude on the dl-client/location tab
[20:15] <mfa298> although doesn't have to be too accurate
[20:15] <jededu> Thtesting this sarantel GPS antenna I have 12 sats ive never had 12 not even with an active one
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> While armour is still hot after APRS discussion - a quick question
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> How TX equipment model is encoded in Mic-E format?
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> I can see aprs.fi recognised my "Yaesu VX-8G (ht)"
[20:19] <fsphil> possibly the destination callsign in the ax.25 header
[20:19] <fsphil> I've seen a few of those that encode brand names
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> but raw packet is just "2014-06-19 20:14:27 UTC: 2E0TOY-10>URPWWW,G0BJI*,WIDE2-1,qAR,MB7UC:`vWKl#)[/`"4n}_#"
[20:19] <LeoBodnar> Destination is chock full of position data i think
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> i have not used Mic-E
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> format
[20:20] <fsphil> URPWWW maybe
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> that's used to encode position
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[20:23] <LZ1DEV> LeoBodnar: you've send another packet
[20:23] <db_g6gzh> have you ever sent any non-mic-e packets which might have caused aprs.fi to remember ?
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[20:23] <fsphil> so it does
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[20:24] <LeoBodnar> no i can't see any other packets apart from position reports
[20:24] <LZ1DEV> those are only 2 days back
[20:24] <LZ1DEV> it doesnt keep the entire history :)
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> well i can take onther SSID that never had VX-8G on it and we will see
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> i know
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> let me switch SSID
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[20:27] <LeoBodnar> 2E0TOY-1 has never been used
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> let's see what happens
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[20:27] <LeoBodnar> i suspected it's these "_#" at the end
[20:27] <db_g6gzh> ah there is a version code, serch for VX-8 in http://www.aprs.org/aprs12/mic-e-types.txt
[20:28] <LZ1DEV> welp
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> hah bingo "`......_# Yaesu VX-8G "
[20:29] <LZ1DEV> man whoever thought of that format
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> Bob
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[20:29] <LeoBodnar> i can't think of anything that can be made worse in it
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[20:30] <fsphil> give him time
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> Only because they wanted to stick a cheap PIC in a mic to encode position
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> and make some $$$
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> TAPR hardware is mind boggling
[20:32] <db_g6gzh> there's a lot of legacy in it
[20:32] <db_g6gzh> it's mostly 30 years old
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> http://www.tapr.org/kits_merc.html
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> they are hell-bent on FPGAs
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> FPGAs are everywhere
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[20:57] <LeoBodnar> this is *so* APRS "NEW FORMATS FOR ALL FUTURE APPLICATIONS: (plus the exceptions above)"
[20:58] <fsphil> there have been attempts at replacing it
[20:58] <fsphil> aprs is like the microsoft of the amateur packet world
[20:58] <mikestir> amateur radio software development is all about grasping defeat from the jaws of victory, like the rsid sample rate thing. what a facepalm
[20:59] <fsphil> what was that?
[20:59] <fsphil> not too familiar with rsid other than what it does
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> RSID should have had irrational tone spacing
[20:59] <arko> "[13:57:53] <fsphil> aprs is like the microsoft of the amateur packet world" thats for the quote book
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> like e/À Hz
[20:59] <fsphil> oh
[20:59] <mikestir> rsid tone spacing is based on a sample rate of 11.025 kHz, but pretty much every other mfsk mode is based on an 8 kHz rate
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[21:01] <LeoBodnar> Only because PAL and NTSC
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> now you know
[21:01] <mikestir> I know. crazy people doing their digital audio masters on video tape
[21:01] <mikestir> but that doesn't explain why they used the CD sample rate for rsid!
[21:02] <mikestir> virtually all PC sound hardware resamples everthing to 48 kHz anyway
[21:03] <fsphil> naturally I have one that seems to be 44100 internally
[21:04] <mikestir> I used to have an M-audio card that was
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[21:04] <mikestir> doesn't fit in this pc unfortunately
[21:04] <fsphil> there was a neat backup program for the amiga that used vhs tapes
[21:04] <fsphil> same idea probably
[21:04] <mikestir> yeah I vaguely remember that
[21:05] <fsphil> http://www.hugolyppens.com/VBS.html
[21:06] <mfa298> one of the docs I read about dominoex suggested it went for fractions of the soundcard sample rates as it made the sampling better.
[21:06] <mfa298> possibly down to less quantisation errors or something like that
[21:07] <fsphil> easier in code
[21:07] <mfa298> although I'm not sure I was totally convinced by the arguments.
[21:07] <fsphil> you just need to capture exactly x samples each time
[21:07] <mikestir> dominoex has modes derived from both 8k and 11.025k
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[21:08] <fsphil> I did the same for the nbtv stuff. the pixel rate is 24000hz
[21:08] <mikestir> fsphil: how's that nbtv stuff going? tried it in the wild yet?
[21:09] <tweetBot> @marsballoon: 80 school #Mars experiments 30km high on our successful #THARSIS flight today. The team couldn't be happier! #UKHAS http://t.co/33iTZEVGmx
[21:09] <fsphil> tried over a 10km path and seemed to work quite well
[21:09] <mikestir> should try it on HF
[21:09] <fsphil> oooh yes
[21:09] <fsphil> it would need to be one of the higher bands
[21:09] <fsphil> bandwidth would be a bit much for 20m
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[21:28] <KF5WYX_> Hi habbers
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[21:29] <fsphil> g'day
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[21:35] Nick change: SiC- -> SiC
[21:36] <KF5WYX_> I'm giving consideration to setting up a wiki for ushas. I keep coming across stories of people, or the people themselves, that are flying payloads that I'm certain fall outside FAA regulations. I feel like a simple wiki with the regulations broken down by state, a list of suppliers, and a few helpful links would go a long way. I'm just not sure I want to
[21:36] <KF5WYX_> try to manage and organize a 'society' no matter how loosly associated.
[21:36] <jcoxon> KF5WYX_, well UKHAS is exactly an example of that
[21:37] <jcoxon> an umbrella organisation
[21:37] <KF5WYX_> jcoxon - do you find it consuming much time?
[21:37] <jcoxon> none at all these days
[21:37] <jcoxon> it manages itself
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[21:38] <jcoxon> bascially we setup this channel and the UKHAS wiki
[21:38] <jcoxon> and then were super friendly to people
[21:38] <jcoxon> and people got involved
[21:38] <jcoxon> people have come and go
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[21:38] <jcoxon> the hard part in the US is that there are many established groups
[21:38] <KF5WYX_> As an alternative, I could create a US page on the ukhas site and start fleshing that out. It may sit un-updated for long periods, but I'd at least have a place to point US habbers at when they're outside the regs.
[21:38] <jcoxon> when we started there weren't any groups
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[21:40] <KF5WYX_> thanks - I'll put more thought in before making a move. If I do set up a site, I'd love to sit in (or at least have a bot in) an irc channel to accompany it.
[21:41] <jcoxon> #highaltitude isn't just UKHAS though
[21:41] <jcoxon> we would be sad to lose the US members of the channel
[21:41] <jcoxon> sure its got a lot of UKHAS chat going on
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[21:43] <KF5WYX_> Oh, well that's just great, I'd just link to #highaltitude
[21:44] <jcoxon> if you look at the logs this channel goes quite around 2300UTC
[21:44] <jcoxon> so lots of space for US discussions etc
[21:44] <jcoxon> make it almost 24hrs
[21:44] <KF5WYX_> *nods
[21:44] <KF5WYX_> that makes sense
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> then ozzies take over
[21:46] <KF5WYX_> is there a lot of antipodean habbing?
[21:46] <jcoxon> yeah quite a bit
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[21:47] <KF5WYX_> well - for the sake of $10 per year to add a domain to my server, I think it's worth it. I already have an article on FAA regulations on my blog that I could bring over. I'd link to #highaltitude as a global irc channel.
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[21:50] <LeoBodnar> while you are at it make information on UKHAS wiki possible to find
[21:50] <Upu> that would spoil the fun
[21:53] <KF5WYX_> Actually, at least in so far as getting started info, I found the home page very valuable.
[21:54] <Upu> you're more than welcome to add content
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[21:59] <KF5WYX_> Thanks for the tips all, and for the pm jcoxon. Time for my commute. I'll be back soon enough.
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[22:31] <Laurenceb> Iowa
[22:31] <Laurenceb> i wonder if it can make it to canada
[22:31] <arko> lets just hope :)
[22:33] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: how far does a linear stepper move per step?
[22:33] <Laurenceb> tooth separation /2 ?
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> where? XD
[22:34] <LeoBodnar> the one you have bought?
[22:36] <Laurenceb> yes rofl
[22:36] <Laurenceb> last year
[22:36] <Laurenceb> i need to finish my PhD, so time to wire it up tomorrow :P
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> one full step is 360 degrees phase change
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[22:37] <Laurenceb> so the bar has 1 tooth / mm
[22:37] <Laurenceb> so 1mm / full step?
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[22:38] <LeoBodnar> the bar is a PM?
[22:38] <Laurenceb> no
[22:38] <Laurenceb> its more complex than that
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[22:38] <Laurenceb> the bar is some sort of soft steel
[22:38] <LeoBodnar> just soft magnetic material?
[22:38] <Laurenceb> then there is a permanent magnet with coil to distort the flux inside the carrage
[22:39] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> ah ok
[22:39] <Laurenceb> *coils
[22:39] <Laurenceb> so with no microstepping, there are 4 sub steps, so 0.25mm ?
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> then i guess it is one tooth
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> as if you energise it
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> this will be a full repeating stationary state
[22:40] <Laurenceb> i guess i can test it at low current
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> stick some DC into it and count number of steps in say 10mm
[22:40] <Laurenceb> so it cant destroy itself
[22:40] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> yeah som CC
[22:41] <Laurenceb> ill try tomorrow :D
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[23:32] <Laurenceb> right for Minneapolis
[23:32] <arko> :)
[23:32] <arko> relearning the states
[23:33] <arko> as a californian i only realize the existence of CA, WA, NY, FL, NV, AZ, and Chicago i guess
[23:34] <arko> the altitude gif plot broke :(
[23:34] <arko> http://pastebin.com/NTwCvr8b
[23:34] <arko> o well
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 20 2014