highaltitude.log.20140617

[00:00] <Ian_> Ideally the line will pass through a small coil of nichrome and be within an insulated part of the package - I have no direct experience of this of course - armchair pundit :-)
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[00:56] <Darkside> Ian_: it dosnt have to be in ainsulated part
[00:56] <Darkside> but it does help
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[00:56] <Darkside> my cutdown uses 2 turns of nichrome around the string, and it sits on top of the payload box
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[07:09] <Chetic> mfa298: you reeeally think it could be the bcm2835 uart timing? that sounds insane to me
[07:09] <Chetic> then again 50 baud probably isn't tested a whole lot
[07:10] <Chetic> I work with RTOSs 90% of the time so trying one should be no prob
[07:10] <Chetic> will feel good to exclude that timing issue with some bit banging at least
[07:12] <Chetic> does dl-fldigi support manchester coding?
[07:15] <Darkside> nope
[07:16] <Darkside> i think the only ham mode that uses something similar to that is AX25
[07:18] <fsphil> even that doesn't
[07:20] <fsphil> manchester coding would be fairly inefficient
[07:20] <Chetic> inefficient how?
[07:21] <Chetic> it'd help with timing issues like I'm having
[07:21] <fsphil> half the data rate
[07:21] <fsphil> what's the issue? I've not been following
[07:22] <Chetic> can barely decode rpi+ntx2 at 50 baud using two different rtl sdrs
[07:22] <fsphil> ah
[07:22] <fsphil> how are you setting up the port?
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[07:22] <Chetic> stty in raspbian linux
[07:23] <Chetic> but I've run C programs etc, it's all the same
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[07:23] <Chetic> I've disabled all the terminal output stuff
[07:23] <fsphil> I've only done it in python. might be something in the way pyserial sets up the port
[07:23] <fsphil> worth a try
[07:23] <craag> Did someone work out that 50 baud on the bcm wasn't quite 50 baud due to the clock divider used?
[07:23] <fsphil> daveake had trouble at 50 baud, and he also did it in C
[07:24] <Chetic> sure fsphil I'll write that down
[07:24] <fsphil> try 100 or 300 too
[07:24] <fsphil> they're not much more difficult to decode on the ground
[07:24] <fsphil> just remember to use 2 stop bits at 300 baud
[07:24] <craag> 300 works fine in my experience
[07:24] <fsphil> (or 1.5)
[07:24] <Chetic> 100, 110 just gets worse
[07:25] <Chetic> it's been a while since I tried anything faster, I'll do that too
[07:25] <craag> if 50 baud has the wrong divider, I doubt 100 will be better
[07:25] <Chetic> maybe it was 110 because of stty's limitations
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[07:43] <daveake> The issue I had with 50 baud was to do with buffering
[07:44] <daveake> It may have been my code but I don't think so. It may have been fixed in Raspbian since then. I've not used 50 for any length of time since then so I don't know.
[07:50] <Chetic> buffering? that doesn't sound related to my issue since data is sent and can be decoded
[07:50] <Chetic> but just barely
[07:50] <daveake> no not the same
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[08:25] <mfa298> Chetic: I've bit banged rtty on the Pi and it took a fair bit of work and the timing isn't as good as you should manage via the UART
[08:27] <fsphil> there is a hardware timer on the pi, I'm sure one could use it to drive this
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> heh
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> it's like
[08:27] <mfa298> the challenge there will be finding out how to do it. The BCM datasheet isn't the most helpful of things.
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> bitbanging under Windows 8
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[08:29] <mfa298> bit banging on windows, isn't that what happens when you pick the machine up and throw it out the window. All the bits go bang at the same time ?
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[08:33] <mfa298> some of the Pi's PWM modes looked like they could be interesting for rtty. It looked like you can give it a buffer of when to be on and off. So if you could get the PWM clock slow enough you could feed it rtty data at whatever speed you want.
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[08:44] <LeoBodnar> Bit banging RAP's style http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PB-8L7hCzac/T9-QHjWwVOI/AAAAAAAAAdI/mb-ABqMsYrE/s1600/PeaseHurl.jpg
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[09:38] <tweetBot> @adamcudworth: HABE 13 should be taking to the skies this Friday! Might be my last flight for a while.. #UKHAS
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[09:46] <AllAmericanHAM> hello balloon whackers!
[09:47] <fsphil> um
[09:48] <fsphil> hi
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[09:51] <AllAmericanHAM> fsphil do you have a balloon?
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[09:51] <fsphil> not on me right now no
[09:51] <AllAmericanHAM> ah thats lame
[09:52] <AllAmericanHAM> i'm wondering where i can get hydrogen for mine
[09:54] <fsphil> you could make it or buy it I suppose. easier to buy
[09:55] <AllAmericanHAM> once its fueled it shall be ready for launch
[09:55] <AllAmericanHAM> where can i buy it?
[09:55] <daveake> If you're using it as fuel you're doing it wrong :p
[09:55] <AllAmericanHAM> why?
[09:56] <gonzo___> I did wonder at the choice of phrase
[09:56] <AllAmericanHAM> is it not supposed to be ignited?
[09:56] <gonzo___> you are in the US I assume?
[09:56] <AllAmericanHAM> ofcourse in USA
[09:56] <AllAmericanHAM> this is an American network
[09:57] <gonzo___> there may be some of your countrymen on later who can advise on gas. But usually you want an industrial gas supplier.
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[09:57] <gonzo___> The UK in UKHAS sort of gives the clue
[09:58] <AllAmericanHAM> UKHAS?
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> H in HAS stands for Hydrogen
[09:58] <daveake> UK Hydrogen And Sparks
[09:58] <gonzo___> why hydrogen? Helium balloon gas may be easier to source
[09:58] Action: mfa298 dreads to think what weight this balloon/payload might be.
[09:58] <gonzo___> hehe
[09:58] <AllAmericanHAM> mfa298 a radio
[09:59] <craag> so 11g?
[09:59] <LeoBodnar> why do you need a radio?
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[09:59] <craag> actually thats with solar+batteries
[09:59] <AllAmericanHAM> A FT-101B + Autek keyer to make a beacon
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[09:59] <craag> so jsut a radio would be about 2g?
[09:59] <craag> right Leo?
[09:59] <AllAmericanHAM> radio is 16kg
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[09:59] <craag> hahahahahaha
[09:59] <mfa298> craag: surely a few KG for the radio and even more for the SLA's to run it - it's American don't forget.
[09:59] <craag> Flying an FT101B ??!?!??!?!?
[10:00] Action: craag seriously hopes you're joking
[10:00] <mfa298> where's Upu's picture of Pico Americur when you need it.
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[10:00] <AllAmericanHAM> craag its the only rig i have spare
[10:00] <gonzo___> we have seen some of the US payloads, looks like you are going for a lightewight one there
[10:00] <craag> mfa298: That's not heavy enough!
[10:00] <Adam012__> Hi, can anyone authorise a payload doc for me please? (and is it #habitat for the payload server?)
[10:00] Action: db_g6gzh fetches some popcorn and settles back in the comfy chair
[10:00] <gonzo___> your insurers will love that one. Think of the premiums
[10:00] <craag> I have an FT101E+FT101ZD
[10:00] <craag> I know how much they weigh...
[10:01] <gonzo___> it's all the car batts that need to go up to
[10:01] <AllAmericanHAM> craag have you tried to launch the 101E?
[10:01] <craag> mm!
[10:01] <craag> Hell no!
[10:01] <AllAmericanHAM> why not?
[10:01] <craag> Firstly It's a stupid idea
[10:01] <craag> Secondly we can't use ham bands airborne in the uk
[10:01] <AllAmericanHAM> why? FT101s are cheap
[10:02] <craag> You can build a HF tx soo much lighter
[10:02] <craag> will save yourself many $$$s on gas+balloon
[10:02] <UpuWork> POW https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/Funny/pico.jpg
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[10:02] <craag> +payout when it puts a crater somewhere
[10:02] <mfa298> Whilst FT101's might be cheap, the Gas and Balloon to lift it won't be
[10:02] <UpuWork> if your radio is 16kg you're doing something very very very wrong
[10:02] <AllAmericanHAM> so FT-101 might not be best idea?
[10:03] <gonzo___> hot air is though
[10:04] <craag> AllAmericanHAM: No, build yourself a little homebrew HF tx beacon instead
[10:04] <craag> You will save *lots* of money in balloon+gas
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[10:04] <AllAmericanHAM> wont have the power
[10:04] <craag> you want a 100W beacon?
[10:04] <AllAmericanHAM> anything better than hydrogen?
[10:04] <UpuWork> we do 500 miles on 10mW AllAmericanHAM
[10:04] <AllAmericanHAM> fuck no not 100w
[10:04] <AllAmericanHAM> 50
[10:05] <craag> 50mW ?
[10:05] <gonzo___> will need a very long mains lead
[10:05] <craag> Fly a 5W one first
[10:05] <craag> See how well it does
[10:05] <craag> (you won't need 50W)
[10:05] <AllAmericanHAM> it only has 1 6JS6C in it? you think i am fucking stupid? if that 101B crashes and takes 2 tubes out the cost would be huge
[10:06] <jonsowman> let's keep the language clean please AllAmericanHAM
[10:06] <UpuWork> watch the language please
[10:06] <AllAmericanHAM> so i will send the FT101 up with one tube till i get good at landing and stuff
[10:07] <mfa298> with a 50W TX there might not be much left to crash land, Could be an interesting fireball as it overheats and makes the H2 explode (although possibly a slower burn due to less atmosphere)
[10:07] <gonzo___> the landing will be great. Just remember to take a spade to dig up the remains
[10:08] <AllAmericanHAM> the FT101 has a strong PA cadge which will protect the 6JS6C tube
[10:08] <craag> AllAmericanHAM: The cost of the tubes wouldn't be much compared to the cost of the balloon+gas to send 16kg up... + batteries???!?
[10:08] <mfa298> gonzo___: might be easier to get a ticket for the otherside or the world - might require less digging
[10:08] <daveake> Ideal then
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[10:09] <daveake> We've had more subtle trolls before
[10:10] <AllAmericanHAM> solar power will keep battery charged
[10:10] <AllAmericanHAM> lipo
[10:10] <daveake> nah, go nuclear
[10:11] <fsphil> use the hydrogen to run a generator
[10:11] <AllAmericanHAM> be serious for fuck sake
[10:11] <Adam012__> Is anyone able to help authorise a payload doc (sorry to take away from the game of 'poke the troll')
[10:11] <jonsowman> AllAmericanHAM: last warning with respect to language. there's no need.
[10:11] <AllAmericanHAM> jonsowman either help with the issue or STFU
[10:12] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:12] <jonsowman> you asked for it
[10:12] #highaltitude: mode change '+b *!*AllAmeric@73.181.15.*' by jonsowman!~jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com
[10:12] AllAmericanHAM kicked from #highaltitude by jonsowman: AllAmericanHAM
[10:12] <daveake> lol
[10:12] <jonsowman> sorry Adam012__, sorting the doc for you now
[10:13] <Adam012__> Thank oyu, didn't want to spoil the fun. Is it #habitat?
[10:13] <daveake> Well that helped with the issue :)
[10:13] <daveake> #habhub Adam012__
[10:15] <Adam012__> Thank you Dave!
[10:15] <UpuWork> lol
[10:15] <Adam012__> Watching your pi project with interest!
[10:15] <UpuWork> he did the American stereotype lots of favours there
[10:15] <fsphil> ticked all the boxes
[10:16] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[10:16] <mfa298> pico americur might need an update after that bit, Add in a large and a few car batteries as well.
[10:17] <fsphil> and a live flame
[10:17] <daveake> mushroom cloud
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[10:17] <gonzo_> knew about the inner workings of a 101, but still acted like an arse. hmmmmm
[10:18] <craag> Well he knew about the tubes, which is described in detail in the manual..
[10:18] <craag> Not sure how he was planning to run it off batteries
[10:19] <craag> The inverter is a bit inefficient on those
[10:19] <Adam012__> That can't have been genuine?
[10:19] <fsphil> depressing either way
[10:19] <Adam012__> Laughing policeman?
[10:20] <craag> I wouldn't be surprised if it was genuine
[10:20] <Adam012__> wow.
[10:20] <fsphil> the anti-arko
[10:21] <Adam012__> Thanks for helping with the payload doc!
[10:21] <Adam012__> Got to go and teach
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[10:21] <WillDWork> just reading back; genius-at-work
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[10:22] <Chetic> mfa298: do you still have the code/files you used to bit bang on the pi? maybe I could just try running that
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[10:23] <fsphil> and he didn't even get to describe his quad-core intel flight computer
[10:23] <daveake> lol
[10:23] <sp2ipt> UpuWork: the picture is WRONG. The mobo lacks CPU! ;)
[10:23] <UpuWork> + heat sink
[10:24] <sp2ipt> at -40 it'll somehow survive :)
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[10:25] <daveake> Did I tell y'all about my flight that I lost when it decided to rebuild the RAID array on the way down?
[10:25] <fsphil> hah
[10:26] <db_g6gzh> was that before or after it installed the Windows updates ?
[10:26] <daveake> That was my chase car PC :/
[10:26] <daveake> 67 updates iirc
[10:26] <fsphil> hopefully you only used 2GB of RAM on it and not 4GB .. you wouldn't want to be silly now
[10:27] <mfa298> Chetic: my code is on https://github.com/m1ari/Sandals although I was trying to change how it worked and it became very crashy (crashing the whole Pi). As others have said it's probably best to try a few different setups on the UART as that will give much better timing. Maybe try a higher baud rate (110/300). Also look at powersupply and connections.
[10:27] <db_g6gzh> wow, 67 seems a lot
[10:27] <mfa298> Chetic: how are you powering the NTX2 and Pi ?
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[10:28] <mfa298> with a large enough heatsink (for the limited atmosphere) you should be able to do some serious overclocking with -40 external.
[10:28] <daveake> Yeah it hadn't updated in a while and I rebooted during the chase
[10:29] <daveake> Not a wise move
[10:40] <Chetic> mfa298: I power the pi with stock power regulators connected to a laptop usb
[10:41] <Darkside> mfa298: the issue is transferring the heat
[10:41] <Chetic> or wall outlet, it's the same
[10:41] <Darkside> no atmosphre to couple it to
[10:41] <Chetic> mfa298: the ntx2 is powered from 5v on the pi
[10:49] <mfa298> Darkside: that's why I was suggesting a large heatsink, larger surface area so more contact with the limited amount of air. I was thinking *huge* heatsink. Of course someone else will need to provide the gas and balloon as it's going to be heavy!
[10:49] <Darkside> :P
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[10:50] <mfa298> Chetic: USB from a laptop may struggle to provide enough power for the Pi. Running like that I've seen various issues with how the Pi runs. (USB ports are 500mA max usually, ideally the Pi wants a 1A PSU).
[10:51] <mfa298> I'd always suggest using a decent 1A+ wall PSU for the Pi.
[10:52] <mfa298> how is the NTX2 connected to the Pi, is it breadboard or soldered to an IO card (Shield/Cape/...)
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[11:26] <Chetic> mfa298: I've used a 2A powered usb hub and a 1A wall psu
[11:26] <Chetic> mfa298: the ntx2 has been soldered to a board, very very poorly because I'm new to it
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[11:29] <gonzo_> poor quality soldering?
[11:29] <Chetic> yes
[11:29] <Chetic> but I'm told that most likely won't make a difference
[11:30] <mfa298> Chetic: do you have any photos of how it's connected ?
[11:32] <gonzo_> Tpis: Use a good quality iron. Clean the tip on the moist sponge. Apply the iron to the joint (you can wet the tip with clean solder at this point, to help the heat flow into the joint. Then feed the req amount of solder into the joint, not onto the tip of the iron. And so the joint quickly then remove the iron. Don't go back and rework a solder joint without using a little more solder, as it needs the flux in the solder to coat the w
[11:32] <gonzo_> ork to keep the air out.
[11:32] <gonzo_> that;s 99% of hand soldering
[11:32] <gonzo_> tips
[11:33] <Chetic> mfa298: http://imgur.com/AWp3AFt,HiLXdTV,tIaG0wd
[11:37] <mfa298> are the pins on the ntx2 actually soldered - it looks like there's only solder on a couple of them
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[11:46] <Chetic> it's an old image but yes, the antenna pins have an sma connector now
[11:47] <Chetic> it looks awful and I'm going to redo it properly soon if I don't solve this problem
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[12:29] <Ian_> mfa298: great eyesight, considering the NTX2 pins are soldered on the other side of the board :-) I guess the patch leads could do with a little loving though! If new to soldering, get a bit of veroboard and have half an hour's serious practice to understand what works and what doesn't
[12:30] <mfa298> Ian_: if you click on the Images a couple of times you get a much larger version
[12:31] <mfa298> there's also three images on that link with both sides of the board.
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[12:32] <mfa298> although with some work it looks like the group of four pins are are soldered on the back of the board (it just wasn't obvious on the top - on a couple of them there was no sign of any solder on the top side)
[12:33] <SgtBurned> Good Afternoon folks
[12:33] <sp2ipt> hi
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[12:36] <Ian_> mfa298 - the shame - head hung down. Didn't see the navy on black (or the green) tabs, so thanks for pointing out the SECRET images for me. Absence of solder evidence can't be helpful to correct operation. Best to solder all pins unless there is a good reason not to.
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[12:36] <Chetic> yeah I learned a helluva lot soldering that thing and I'm pretty comfortable with it now
[12:38] <Ian_> I should observe these things and shut up more . . . creeps away quietly :-) Chetic, It's always best to master the art before hitting the expensive bits. I hope that you solve the problem and personally would ensure that the pins are all soldered.
[12:39] <Chetic> Ian_: I tested all solders and measured every connection I made
[12:39] <Chetic> and I know myself, if I plan to do something "just to learn", I won't do it
[12:39] <Chetic> I need to do something with a goal
[12:40] <mfa298> Ian_: I missed the other images the first couple of times people sent images like that
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[12:43] <Chetic> if it wasn't for the lightweight raspberry pi camera, I would just use a different board
[12:43] <Chetic> any recommendations?
[12:43] <Ian_> I sort of expected there to be < and > to indicate the presence of other images. I have probably been watching 10% of images, totally unaware of the presence of the other 90%. I guess my monitor brightness isn't turned up as far as the industry standard.
[12:43] <fsphil> I've missed those links loads of times
[12:45] <Chetic> me too, heh
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[13:18] <SgtBurned> Hey Lunar_LanderU
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[13:29] <Ian_> Chetic: I noticed over the last few weeks that there are channel members using STxxx boards for more memory and facilities than the Arduino as the tools are now available and maturing. A bit of a leap with a lot less handholding available. Memory, PWM and low power seem to be the selling points.
[13:30] <Ian_> Way too rich for my blood just now.
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[13:39] <SgtBurned> Ian_: Depends on what you want it to do, Many people, Many tasks.
[13:39] <craag> The AVR is lower power than most of the stm32 stuff. Especially in sleep modes. However the capability and pricing of the 32-bit ARMs blows it out of the water.
[13:40] <SgtBurned> Some may want it for low power, some may want to have full gyro sensors, SSDV, all sorts. Some may want a low power GPS system.
[13:40] <craag> + it'll be beaten on low power by the stm32L0 this summer
[13:40] <SgtBurned> Yeah
[13:41] <cm13g09-work> craag: ping
[13:41] <craag> cm13g09-work: pong
[13:41] <mikestir-work> It's already beaten on power by the kinetis KL and silabs gecko at least in some applications
[13:41] <craag> Yeah the KLs are mostly M0+ based iirc, which is what the stm32l0 is too.
[13:42] <craag> Have played a bit with the KL25 dev board, but didn't like it much.
[13:42] <mikestir-work> freescale's example code is awful
[13:42] <mikestir-work> the hardware is quite nice though
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> stm32l1 already beats atmega168
[13:43] <craag> My housemate really liked them too, but has since found a couple of bugs in the SPI/interrupts logic
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> apart from on power down current
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> a few hundred nA difference
[13:44] <craag> Laurenceb_: Yeah I was looking for power-down current recently, ended up using the 168p :/
[13:45] <mikestir-work> Laurenceb_: yes a lot of the M0 chips win on uA/MHz already, but the M0+ ones are starting to challenge on power down current too
[13:45] <mattbrejza> the stm32s are better in terms of performance/J though?
[13:45] <mattbrejza> than an avr
[13:45] <craag> I bet they are
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> they will be about an order of magnitude better
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> as 32 bits
[13:46] <mikestir-work> craag: I'd be interested to know the details of that SPI bug as my tracker is based on KL05 and runs the SPI at high speed to do the modulation
[13:46] <mikestir-work> I haven't noticed anything go wrong with it so far though!
[13:47] <mattbrejza> btw Laurenceb_, when you set a timer OC to toggle a pin, does it take the GPIOx->IDR ? and therefore if you want to initialise a timers toggled output you write the output value in advance of starting the timer?
[13:47] <craag> Ok, he's trying to get contiki running for 6lowpan stuff, and ended up going with the msp430 instead.
[13:47] <craag> He's out of town right now, but I'll try to remember to find out more for you.
[13:47] <mikestir-work> ta
[13:47] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: on stm32?
[13:47] <mattbrejza> yea
[13:47] <mattbrejza> stm32f0 specifically
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> im confused
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> why would icr matter?
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> *IDR
[13:48] <mattbrejza> or ODR rather
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> im not sure about F0
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> but on other stuff the ODR is irrelevant
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> as AF GPIO bypasses it
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> i suspect the toggled output is fixed at zero.. or one
[13:49] <mattbrejza> so when you set the enable bit the toggled values always start at zero (or one)?
[13:50] <mattbrejza> timer enable bit
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> aiui yes
[13:51] <mattbrejza> ok thanks
[13:51] <mattbrejza> ill play about with it later anyway
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[13:57] <LeoBodnar> aadamson I read your blog entry http://peachflight.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/gps-power-saver-mode.html
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> i could not understand anything
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> is it hardware, software or firmware problem?
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: actually with normal PWM there is a bit to flip the polarity
[13:58] <Laurenceb_> it might work with toggle mode, i dont know
[13:59] <mattbrejza> hmm yea that might be the way around it if i want to initialise it
[13:59] <mattbrejza> thanks
[14:01] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, I wish I knew.... You and I had this discussion the other day and I was ready to just scratch what I had done it software and try your approach, then I talked to Anthony and he gave me another perspective.... So right now I'm just trying to gather my thoughts
[14:02] <aadamson> I do know it's a hardware problem for one and that is resolved in my new hardware
[14:02] <aadamson> but I also suspect it's a logic/software problem, I won't know that until I get the new hardware up and see how it works
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> you start from explaining that GPS has different operating modes and why saving power is important so you target audience is supposed to be at that level
[14:03] <aadamson> yes, I know that post needs some edits
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> i must be a total idiot, i could not undertsand anything you wanted to say
[14:03] <aadamson> but it was late and I didn't want to loose it
[14:03] <aadamson> I highly doubt that, more likely it was late and I was a bit scatter brained
[14:03] <aadamson> lose it.
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[14:06] <ranga_> hi guys i want to know about the method of insulation used for protecting the payload
[14:10] <ranga_> any body there
[14:12] <ranga_> any body please reply
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[14:13] <Ian_> Polystyrene or urethane foam. At altitude there is little atmosphere to dissipate heat generated by circuit boards, cameras etc. Exercise patience this is not an ON DEMAND service.
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[14:13] <Ian_> Please
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[14:14] <Ian_> The object is not only thermal insulation, but protection for both equipment and any unfortunate person or property that a decending package might impact.
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> sometimes service is provided even against the will
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[14:16] <Ian_> A bit like radio skeds maintained for months by two people and when a third calls in on a night off, complains that there is no service. Expecting us to witter on until he deigns to join in.
[14:17] <Ian_> I think that IRC channels appeal to the eavesdropper in all of us, feeding us with good ideas and passably interesting chat.
[14:17] <Lunar_LanderU> hi SgtBurned, I was not at the computer
[14:19] <SgtBurned> Okay No problem
[14:19] <SgtBurned> How are you this fine day?
[14:19] <fsphil> not at the computer? but how where you able to google stuff?
[14:19] <ranga_> we have procured styrofoam is it possible to use it for insulation
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> i usually google the old way http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac268/kassonica/tumblr_kuutgrDKDA1qzpavwo1_500.jpg [15:19] <fsphil> not at the computer? but how where you able to google stuff?
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> I am good, thanks
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: how do you mean?
[14:21] <fsphil> haha
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> well
[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> I'll be back on later when I am home
[14:22] <fsphil> I'm not sure what the word for being away from the internet is. let me google it...
[14:23] <ranga_> Ian are u there
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> being on externet
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> ranga_: styrofoam is good
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> we just had a box where we put the electronics in and all worked fine
[14:24] <fsphil> for short flights you really just want to stop the cold air flowing through the box
[14:25] <fsphil> once the air pressure drops it doesn't matter so much
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[14:26] <ranga__> is there a way to get permanent id on this chat
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[14:27] <ranga__> any one there
[14:27] <mfa298> ranga__: you can register your nickname for irc.
[14:27] ranga_ (cb7c9722@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.124.151.34) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[14:27] <mfa298> you may also find using a real IRC client easier then using webchat.
[14:28] <ranga__> how do i do it i am getting confused
[14:28] <mfa298> with the webclient you probably need to wait for the old connection to timeout before you'll be able to re-use the nickname
[14:29] <mfa298> you can also change your nick whilst connected with /nick newname
[14:30] <mfa298> there's some stuff about registering nicknames on freenode (this IRC network) on https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
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[14:32] <amell> anyone looking for a 60K job in cambridge area? electronics design engineer.
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[14:36] <SgtBurned> If you find one near Sussex then let me know ;)
[14:38] <mattbrejza> why have you resorted to asking on irc :/
[14:38] <amell> because the agency offered me £250 if i found someone to do it& lol
[14:38] <mattbrejza> oh right
[14:39] <mattbrejza> is 60k the going rate for that particular level?
[14:39] <mattbrejza> somehow doubt its graduate pay :P
[14:39] <SgtBurned> Who is it with?
[14:39] <SgtBurned> I think its 2Years exp
[14:39] <SgtBurned> Well, 2+
[14:40] <mattbrejza> 60k is pretty good for 2+yrs?
[14:40] <SgtBurned> its on the high end
[14:40] <SgtBurned> You can usually get 80k on 5years
[14:41] <mattbrejza> for electronic engineering?
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[14:41] <gonzo_> $ or £
[14:41] <fsphil> yen
[14:41] <mattbrejza> im assuming £
[14:41] <fsphil> what's the low end?
[14:41] <SgtBurned> £.60k
[14:41] <SgtBurned> :D
[14:42] <mikestir-work> blimey I need to ask for a pay rise :)
[14:42] <fsphil> same here!
[14:43] <SgtBurned> £.60k to £ = ... £600 ?
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[14:45] <gonzo_> legal min is about £14kpa isn't it?
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[14:46] <mattbrejza> sounds about right
[14:47] <amell> £ obviously.
[14:48] <amell> its actually bloody good money for what it is, so thought someone might be interested.
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[14:52] <SgtBurned> I think my Annum earnings is...
[14:52] <SgtBurned> Not a lot
[14:53] <fsphil> I live in a terrible place for decent paying tech jobs
[14:55] <gonzo_> what's the role, just out of noseyness?
[14:55] <gonzo_> down where I am, the wages just don't reflect the cost of property etc
[14:56] <mattbrejza> fsphil: your wage:house price ration might be better though
[14:56] <mattbrejza> *ratio
[14:58] <gonzo_> quick google, average house price in cambs is about 400k. So you would need over 100kpa to get a mortgage
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[15:00] <SgtBurned> Well I would class myself as a Multi-skilled engineer...
[15:00] <SgtBurned> Pay wise... Am I allowed to discuss it on here?
[15:01] <mattbrejza> average semi in n.ireland is £123k...
[15:01] <fsphil> mattbrejza: it is yea, the average house price is the lowest in the uk
[15:01] <mattbrejza> fsphil: i wouldnt complain too much :P
[15:01] <SgtBurned> 0______0
[15:01] <mattbrejza> SgtBurned: cant see why not
[15:01] <SgtBurned> Okay brb moving to N-Ireland.
[15:02] <fsphil> I need to find a cheap way to commute from here to london every day :)
[15:02] <mattbrejza> is a return plane ticket every day still cheaper i wonder...
[15:02] <fsphil> hah
[15:02] <fsphil> maybe per week
[15:02] <fsphil> fly back on weekends
[15:03] <SgtBurned> Might be easier to just buy a ferrari and drive that down
[15:03] <fsphil> oh wait, then I'd need a house in london
[15:03] <mfa298> commute by HAB each day (Compulsory comment so this conversation is on topic)
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[15:03] <SgtBurned> Read HAB as Hot Air Balloon...
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[15:03] <fsphil> live in a hot air balloon!
[15:03] <SgtBurned> YEAH!
[15:03] <fsphil> n/m all the air traffic
[15:03] <fsphil> they'll not mind
[15:04] <fsphil> a blimp
[15:04] <fsphil> it's not like one of them has ever crashed and burst into flames
[15:04] <mfa298> tether point on a building and winch, then you could stay low enough
[15:05] <mikestir-work> would you have to pay council tax for a blimp?
[15:05] <fsphil> oooh
[15:06] <mattbrejza> there are cheaper places in the uk that arnt much more than NI, at least tech doesnt need to be in the city so much
[15:06] <mattbrejza> just claim its your second house
[15:06] <fsphil> north of scotland isn't so bad
[15:06] <fsphil> house price wise
[15:07] <fsphil> plus a nice landscape
[15:07] <mfa298> might not be so good connectivity wise. Although tech job and no internet could be a good thing :p
[15:07] <fsphil> plus best to wait until after the vote before making long term decisions!
[15:09] <SgtBurned> xD Good point.
[15:09] <SgtBurned> Have you noticed a lot of people looking for houses in scotland recently?
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[15:13] <gonzo_> you could carry your ft101 under your arm whilst you drift over
[15:13] <gonzo_> I think scotlan is better served by broadband than mid wales
[15:14] <mattbrejza> you could use some of your spare £300k to install fibre
[15:15] <SgtBurned> Spare £300l 0_0... I'm your best friend you know... :D
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[15:15] <mattbrejza> (house price difference between london and scotland)
[15:16] <SgtBurned> How cheap would 4 bedroom be?
[15:16] <gonzo_> that's a one bed flat vs a detatched house with thank as well
[15:16] <gonzo_> land
[15:20] <mikestir-work> north wales coast is surprisingly cheap considering it's commutable to manchester
[15:20] <adamgreig> I'm going to have a heck of a shot when 'commutable' stops meaning 'a four minute bike ride'
[15:20] <adamgreig> shock*
[15:21] <adamgreig> just have to never move house or job
[15:21] <SgtBurned> adamgreig: I am 30 seconds from work :)
[15:22] <SgtBurned> I can wake up 30 minutes late and still get to work early.
[15:22] <amell> fascinating discussion. if anyone is seriously interested, pm me :)
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[15:26] <ranga_> can any one tell the method to calculate the descent rate of a balloon
[15:27] <SgtBurned> check altitude
[15:27] <SgtBurned> Mark down the time as well.
[15:28] <SgtBurned> Check altitude 1 second later. Alt1 - Alt2 = delta altitude.
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[15:28] <SgtBurned> Or are you talking about working out the theoretical descent without having it in the sky and working?
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[15:38] <mikestir-work> seems it's time to rebuild my windows box again
[15:38] <mikestir-work> 3 weeks must have elapsed
[15:46] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, I think you'll find this a little more coherent - http://peachflight.blogspot.com/2014/06/gps-power-saver-mode.html :) and with that I've got real work I now need to do...
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[15:50] <navrac_work> aaddamson - I think what you encountering is the fact with mode B as you call it, it would appear the lock does just drop out with the chip antenna - I found a decent antenna helped. Also I just masked out positional data when satellites<5 on my old stuff
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[15:52] <aadamson> navrac_work, thanks for the comments, what antenna are you using?
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[15:54] <navrac_work> i had an old sarantel i used to verify the problem, but to be honest i just go with the chip and accept a poorer response rate.
[15:55] <aadamson> I have one of those as well that I'll test at some point, but ultimately, it will just stay with the chip or just a 1/4 wave wire. I now I have a hardware and a firmware issue that is causing some of the problem and I'll have new hardware this week that I confirm that against
[15:55] <aadamson> s/now/know
[15:56] <aadamson> gotta run, and thanks again!
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[15:59] <jellyfishtree> anyone run into issues with connecting their gps module to arduino via serial Tx/Rx?
[16:00] <jellyfishtree> I am not able to send data to the arduino when my GPS module is connected to the TX/RX pins
[16:00] <jellyfishtree> and I get "avrdude stk500_getsync()"
[16:00] <mattbrejza> another victim of italian hobbists :P
[16:01] <mattbrejza> the tx/rx lines are shared by the programmer
[16:01] <mattbrejza> so you have to remove the gps tx to program
[16:01] <jellyfishtree> katso! mio arduino!
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[16:02] <jellyfishtree> when i first turn it on do i have to have it disconnected as well?
[16:02] <mattbrejza> na just when programming
[16:02] <jellyfishtree> k
[16:03] <jellyfishtree> i noticed https://github.com/trbabb/copernicus
[16:03] <jellyfishtree> he mentions using some sort of voltage divider
[16:03] <jellyfishtree> didnt know if that was a workaround.
[16:03] <mattbrejza> oh thats because the gps is 3.3V and the arduino potentially 5V
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[16:04] <mattbrejza> so you need a potential divider arduino -> gps, but not gps -> arduino
[16:04] <mattbrejza> unless you have the 5V logic level shifted gps breakout
[16:05] <jellyfishtree> ah ok. yeah i thought maybe because i wasnt sending the right voltage to the device, it wasn't able to complete whatever sync it needs to
[16:05] <jellyfishtree> im patching the 3.3v to the gps module so it should be fine
[16:05] <jellyfishtree> and the gps is rated for 3 v
[16:05] <jellyfishtree> thanks matt
[16:06] <mattbrejza> although you need to connect arduino tx -> gps rx to put it into flight mode
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[16:06] <mattbrejza> and that needs potential dividers as the gps is 3V and the arduino tx is 5V
[16:07] <jellyfishtree> ah, so the tx is 5v
[16:07] <mfa298> jellyfishtree: the thing to check is what logic levels the arduino is using. if it's a 5V arduino it will be sending 5V logic levels which the gps may not like
[16:07] <mattbrejza> they are suprisingly hardy, but that shouldnt be an excuse :)
[16:08] <jellyfishtree> well, the uno takes 6-12v in and has both 3 and 5v...does the tx on there default to 5v i guess?
[16:09] <jellyfishtree> my googling says yes
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[16:09] <craag> uno is 5v
[16:10] <jellyfishtree> yar. cool.
[16:10] <mattbrejza> craag: free friday>
[16:10] <mattbrejza> should probably frequency shotgun
[16:14] <craag> mattbrejza: Possibly..
[16:14] <craag> Will get you an answer tomorrow
[16:14] <mattbrejza> ok :)
[16:18] <ranga_> i am askiong if there is a technique to calculate theoretical ascent and descent rate
[16:20] <jellyfishtree> ascent rate -> http://habhub.org/calc/ ?
[16:20] <mfa298> ranga_: there's a calculator on habhub.org/calc for ascent rate
[16:20] <adamgreig> descent is somewhat harder
[16:20] <ranga_> ok
[16:21] <mfa298> for descent I think there's some bits on the wiki (see the topic) or randomengineering. mostly related to parachute sizing
[16:21] <jellyfishtree> http://predict.habhub.org/ <- has descent rate
[16:21] <adamgreig> it requires it, but it doesn't tell you it
[16:21] <jellyfishtree> ah
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[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:29] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL7AD
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[19:29] <DL7AD> fine thx :)
[19:29] <DL7AD> im currently at my club station
[19:29] <DL7AD> and about to leave home
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
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[20:06] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:06] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
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[20:30] <Maxell> quadcopter \o/ https://revspace.nl/fotos/DJI00103.JPG
[20:30] <Maxell> https://revspace.nl/fotos/DJI00105.JPG
[20:31] <arko> nice
[20:31] <arko> what platform?
[20:31] <Maxell> arko: not sure, some other hacker took it with him
[20:31] <Maxell> Very nice stabalizing gimbal platform
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[20:36] <Maxell> https://revspace.nl/fotos/DJI00090.JPG now we need some sort of transponder to downlink say 10 kHz of 434,500 MHz --> 434,600 MHz so we can do some extreme leo tracking :P
[20:36] <Maxell> Or aprs igate/digi
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[20:40] <DL7AD_mobile> Maxell what about a raspberry pi wifi and a dongle
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[20:40] <fsphil> it would be an amazingly handy tool for tracking near the landing site
[20:41] <fsphil> esp. if it's a hilly area
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[20:45] <SpeedEvil> + GPS + soundcard 'warm, cold, ...'
[20:48] <Maxell> DL7AD_mobile: yep but that might not be the most low power/lightwight
[20:48] <Maxell> weight
[20:49] <DL7AD_mobile> What else?
[20:49] <Maxell> fsphil: yep does 100+ meters with ease
[20:50] <Maxell> fsphil: he did not yet tried higher because he does not want to lose sight of it (yet) :P
[20:51] <fsphil> understand :)
[20:51] <fsphil> I nearly lost a helicopter that way
[20:51] <fsphil> (then crashed it on landing and broke it ... so meh)
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[20:55] <SpeedEvil> A nexus 7 2012 running linux with the SDR thingy plugged in
[21:01] <Maxell> SpeedEvil: that might work
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[21:53] <Ian_> Needs return to base facility in case you blink at max visual range and lose sight. Super clear picture of the road network.
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[22:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> Maxell: apply some tracker tech to the quad.. and just load landingpos befrore launch.. together with check of batt... so when "low" return to base
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 18 2014