highaltitude.log.20140616

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[07:09] <DL7AD> morning
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[07:15] <sp2ipt> hi Sven :)
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[07:43] <Tramvai> Hey guys. Can anyone tell me how can I test the antenna built using the HAB wiki guide?
[07:45] <fsphil> ideally do a range test
[07:45] <fsphil> if you have somewhere you can go that is a fair distance but still line of sight
[07:45] <Tramvai> We've tried it attached to the roof of a car, but it failed
[07:46] <Tramvai> I'm about to go to the store to pick up some more wires and I was wondering if I should try rebuilding the antenna
[07:48] <fsphil> failed?
[07:48] <Tramvai> We didn't get a proper signal
[07:48] <fsphil> describe your test
[07:49] <Tramvai> We had a very powerful antenna as the receiver
[07:49] <Tramvai> Yaesu radio etc.
[07:49] <Tramvai> And we thought we'd take the payload out for a spin with the car
[07:50] <Tramvai> And the signal was just crap, didn't really receive any messages properly
[07:50] <Tramvai> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbl5cebihg3lcn8/2013-09-12%2014.33.55.jpg
[07:50] <Tramvai> I was wondering if it's the wires we used
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[07:50] <fsphil> was this line of sight?
[07:51] <fsphil> if you where driving around a town, buildings will get in the way
[07:51] <Tramvai> Pretty much, yeah
[07:51] <Tramvai> https://www.dropbox.com/s/61jgc7r8o86id2u/2013-09-12%2014.35.30.jpg
[07:51] <Tramvai> We have these as radials
[07:52] <Tramvai> Are they fine?
[07:59] <sp2ipt> I haven't seen this tutorial but aren't these silicone measurement wires an overkill? Besides they aren't stiff at all so they'll just hang from the soldering point and won't form any soft of groundplane
[07:59] <fsphil> should be fine as long as the shame is maintained
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[08:01] <fsphil> oops
[08:02] <UpuWork> maintain the shame
[08:02] <fsphil> that does look like rather fancy wire
[08:02] <sp2ipt> I'd take 1,5mm2 solid electric wire and make radials out of it. Also I'd "lower" the soldering point - 1/4 lambda GP will have 50 ohms when radials are 135 deg from the main wire
[08:03] <sp2ipt> at 90 deg it's 75 ohms AFAIR
[08:04] <fsphil> much easier to fix it 90 degrees to the base of the payload box
[08:04] <sp2ipt> yes, it's easier not to break it then
[08:05] <sp2ipt> but then again - did anyone try to make some sort of matching network? it shouldn't be that hard, the only concern is weight
[08:05] <mfa298> Is that ground plane joint actually soldered or is it just using the twist and pray approach?
[08:06] <fsphil> it's a bit overkill
[08:09] <sp2ipt> to be honest I'd put a wire ferrule and crimp it - it's a big joint for soldering rg174. I'd suspect the insulation to melt.
[08:10] <mfa298> crimp would work as well, but that looks like it's just twisted together which may not get a good contact and any contact there is would probably get worse during a flight
[08:11] <sp2ipt> probably
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[08:24] <gonzo__> a 1/4 wave GP with 90deg should be close to 35R
[08:25] <gonzo__> which is stell acceptable match
[08:25] <gonzo__> 10dB return loss (which is usually accepted as being as reasonable match for most jobs) is a VSWR of around 2:1
[08:26] <sp2ipt> you're right - my bad :)
[08:28] <gonzo__> a 2:1 match would be a termonation of 25 or 100r into 50r cable
[08:29] <gonzo__> 50->75r would be 1.5:1 which is good by mots peoples measure
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[08:31] <gonzo__> mismatches at low power really are not that serious. If you were TXing 1kw, then a fraction of a dB would need to be taken into account (I'm working with a LPF for 2mtrs for 1kW forward power. So 0.1dB is enough loss to get it warm!)
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[09:05] <FuzzyLemon> I'm planning a balloon launch for saturday 5th July. I made a flight doc on 12/06 but don't think it's been approved yet.
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[09:05] <FuzzyLemon> paylaod name is BALYOLO
[09:06] <jonsowman> FuzzyLemon: got the doc id?
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[09:11] <mfa298> FuzzyLemon: other thing that's worth doing is making sure the payload doc used in the flight doc works with your payload (it's easier to fix before the flightdoc is approved)
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[09:34] <FuzzyLemon> doc id: 4e878751d45505b670ce92187c1280ef
[09:36] <fsphil> have you tested it?
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[09:49] <FuzzyLemon> ok it's not uploadin the telemetry strings from dl-fldigi
[09:50] <fsphil> the first place to check is http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[09:51] <fsphil> doesn't seem to be anything there
[09:51] <fsphil> so dl-fldigi is not uploading it
[09:52] <fsphil> it's either not in Online mode, or you haven't filled in your callsign+position
[09:52] <fsphil> or there is something wrong with the checksum
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[09:54] <FuzzyLemon> call sign is BALYOLO. how do you change it to online mode
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[09:54] <fsphil> in the menu "DL Client"
[09:54] <fsphil> there is an online checkbox
[09:55] <fsphil> when I say filled in your callsign, I mean in dl-fldigi. this is the callsign of the receiver station
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[09:58] <adamgreig> FuzzyLemon: did you ask anyone to approve the flight doc after you made it? it doesn't happen automatically
[09:58] <fsphil> should still appear on the map
[09:59] <adamgreig> yes indeed
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[10:00] <FuzzyLemon> BALYOLO isn't available in the 'all payloads (testing)' list
[10:01] <fsphil> FuzzyLemon: make sure all the boxes in purple have been filled in: http://i.imgur.com/pm4Ng02.png and http://i.imgur.com/NJir9YA.png
[10:01] <fsphil> have you actually made a flight doc? or just a payload doc?
[10:01] <FuzzyLemon> both
[10:02] <FuzzyLemon> ok its uploaded now. I hadn't set the callsign
[10:02] <fsphil> aaah there you go
[10:03] <FuzzyLemon> thanks
[10:03] <fsphil> now it's safe to get the flight doc approved
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[10:06] <FuzzyLemon> I am using an ezcap dongle to test the tracker but I dont have anything that can actually track the flight once its out of my line of sight.
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[10:07] <FuzzyLemon> the big radio receivers are pretty expensive
[10:07] <SgtBurned> FuzzyLemon: Follow it in a Hot Air Balloon
[10:07] <fsphil> unless you're going underground it should always be line of sight during the flight
[10:08] <fsphil> which ideally you should be following in a car
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[10:16] <gonzo__> underground payloads only happen, when they are too heavy and/or the chute fails
[10:17] <gonzo__> and it only tends to be right at the end of the flight
[10:17] <fsphil> or a data type issue
[10:17] <daveake> I had an underground car for 35 mins of a chase
[10:17] <fsphil> -32km seems popular
[10:18] <daveake> undersea too
[10:18] <fsphil> you'd need more than 10mw at 434mhz to track down there
[10:18] <daveake> yup
[10:18] <gonzo__> underwater car! The name is bond.....
[10:19] <fsphil> I wonder if any RF propagates through the channel tunnel
[10:19] <daveake> fortunately the channel tunnel wasn't flooded
[10:19] <daveake> They have gsm repeaters there now
[10:19] <gonzo__> though your underwater/underground car was in the chunnle. Sort of loses the fun factor
[10:20] <gonzo__> snapo
[10:20] <daveake> French GSM, so you can roam all the way :(
[10:20] <gonzo__> and watch those euro's tick away
[10:20] <fsphil> hopefully roaming will end around the EU soon
[10:21] <mattbrejza> you could probably get rf down the channel tunnel, but there would be horrific multipath
[10:21] <gonzo__> had a text from orange, they do some roaming data deal for 100MB for a quid per day
[10:21] <fsphil> not bad
[10:21] <gonzo__> would be on for tracking emailetc
[10:21] <mattbrejza> might be a waveguide for HF though
[10:21] <fsphil> mattbrejza: that's what I was thinking. the walls might not be a good material for it though
[10:21] <fsphil> and you'd probably get more RF just arriving over the water
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[10:22] <gonzo__> one of the raynet groups did some trials on a tunnle a few years ago. They found that 23cm was actually the best for direct comms
[10:22] <gonzo__> had a set of yagi pointing into the mouth
[10:23] <gonzo__> have seen interesting difraction patterns conming from vhf that's been ducting down a valley
[10:24] <mattbrejza> oh waveguides are supposed to be metallic :P concrete is probably a bit lossier, but you never know with RF
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[10:24] <mattbrejza> weirder things have happened
[10:24] <gonzo__> but even their 23cm and ysgi could not get more than a km ish (from mem). That seemed to be due to absorbtion
[10:25] <gonzo__> this was a rock tunnel, with wet gravel floor. So a big linear attenuator
[10:26] <mattbrejza> not sure how reflective concrete is in the case of the channel tunnel
[10:26] <gonzo__> commecially they use leaky feeder. But these tests were for emergency comms
[10:26] <fsphil> the salt water around it might do
[10:26] <fsphil> ah no the tunnel is below the sea bed isn't it?
[10:26] <gonzo__> depends of the freqs used I expect
[10:27] <daveake> Yes up to 200m under iirc
[10:27] <fsphil> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Channel_Tunnel_geological_profile_1.svg
[10:28] <daveake> ok not so far
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[10:29] <gonzo__> should the clifs be white??
[10:29] <gonzo__> (my typing and spelling is really bad today!)
[10:30] <daveake> I went across this yesterday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge
[10:30] <daveake> return trip later today
[10:30] <daveake> That one's in a trench not under the sea bed
[10:32] <fsphil> that looks like it would have been difficult to build
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[10:36] <mattbrejza> well at ¬46 each way probably was :P
[10:37] <daveake> ha
[10:37] <daveake> Yes fortunately chargeable to customer
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[12:04] <SA6BSS> to what altitude does the max6 gps work in non flightmode?
[12:08] <fsphil> 18km
[12:08] <adamgreig> 12m isn't it?
[12:08] <adamgreig> 12km *
[12:08] <craag> 12 is pedestrian iirc
[12:08] <craag> It's 18 by default
[12:08] <fsphil> oh yes, leo's flight had trouble at 12km
[12:10] <UpuWork> 12km
[12:10] <UpuWork> default
[12:10] <craag> oh ok
[12:10] <craag> my bad
[12:11] <craag> the wise one has spoken
[12:11] <UpuWork> it defaults to portable mode
[12:11] <UpuWork> which is 12km
[12:11] <UpuWork> Stationary/Pedestrian are 9km
[12:11] <UpuWork> Automotive is 6km
[12:11] <UpuWork> "at sea" is 500m (don't use this one !)
[12:11] <UpuWork> rest are 50km
[12:11] <adamgreig> hehe
[12:15] <SA6BSS> ok, tnx :)
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[12:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[12:20] Nick change: SiC- -> SiC
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[12:32] <SgtBurned> Good afternoon lander.
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[12:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi SgtBurned
[12:38] <SgtBurned> Hey lunar, How are you?
[12:39] <Lunar_Lander> good thanks & you?
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[12:47] <aadamson> upu, feel free to clean me up... it's on the ground, probably due to a leak of some sort
[12:49] <SgtBurned> I'm good thanks. Just working on a website. nothing too fun
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> I'll be back in 5-10 min
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[12:50] Action: fsphil starts a timer
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[13:03] Action: mfa298 suspects that timer has now expired
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[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> back
[13:07] <nats`> mfa298 nop because of cosmic radiation it reset in loop
[13:08] <craag> haha nats`
[13:09] <craag> lucky him though, we'd have kicked him out otherwise ;)
[13:10] <nats`> should I call you THE watchdog :D
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[13:19] <SgtBurned> Lunar, That was 17minutes
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[13:20] <SgtBurned> Super fast reaction times as well... :D
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[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> it was an estimate :D
[13:26] <nats`> Lunar_Lander you've been kicked out of time/space by THE watchdog. Please don't speak anymore or you could break the internet !
[13:27] <mfa298> not to bad as ish time goes
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> hm seems like something screwed up really bad last days
[13:29] <fsphil> just a glitch in the matrix, pay no attention
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[13:32] <nats`> Miaou ?
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[14:05] <ak4rp> hi, anyone tried the uBlox NEO-7P for HAB (vs MAX-7x)?
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> has anyone here ever tried to print on a windows print server from linux?
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> i cant work out how to format the username?
[14:09] <UpuWork> 7P isn't suitable but the 7M or 7N should be fine
[14:10] <UpuWork> I think 7P assumes a stationary position
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[14:11] <ak4rp> UpuWork: i.e., point positioning means stationary position? :(
[14:13] <ak4rp> it turns out weve got a couple of 7Ps...
[14:24] <UpuWork> Precise positioning
[14:24] <UpuWork> used for survey work and stuff
[14:25] <UpuWork> check the data sheet
[14:25] <UpuWork> its not a module I've used
[14:27] <fsphil> it would probably still work if put in the right mode
[14:28] <gonzo__> seems a waste
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[14:29] <ak4rp> yes, looking at the data sheet, it csan be switched to ordinary mode
[14:30] <ak4rp> well see.
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[14:39] <ak4rp> BTW Im wondering how do people make the Si446x family transmit in MFSK (M>4)?
[14:40] <SgtBurned> Well, First you have to summon a dark lord.
[14:40] <fsphil> you set a very narrow channel spacing, have it transmit just a carrier wave
[14:40] <fsphil> you change tone by changing the channel
[14:40] <SgtBurned> Give him a Medium well done steak, Send a Cidre his way too.
[14:41] <fsphil> the dark lord method will also work, however all of middle earth may be enslaved
[14:41] <ak4rp> so you keep retuning
[14:41] <ak4rp> thanks
[14:42] <fsphil> the trick is getting a channel spacing that matches the mode you're trying to do
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[15:10] <SgtBurned> Or you know... Enslave all humanity for a balloon... I would do.
[15:19] <jiffe98> ak4rp: I was looking at the si4* family too for transmissions, you'll have to update if you have success with that
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[15:41] <mfa298> Chetic: I've just been reading some of the scrollback and saw the Pi issues you were asking about. One thing to consider is how the Pi is powered and how the NTX2 is powered. It should work (lots of people have made it work) but power can be an issue. Unless you're experienced and understand how to tweak the OS/Code to improve the timing on a non RTOS system I'd recommend staying away from bit banging on the Pi. Whilst it can be done it takes a reaso
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[16:03] <fsphil> sentence timed out? :)
[16:06] <craag> his gpio timer overflowed
[16:06] <craag> proving the point nicely ;)
[16:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[16:31] <jellyfishtree> hello. i am looking to followup on some info from last time I spoke with @Upu and @daveake here. I was suggested a 5.5m/s ascent rate and 2000g balloon (pref Kaymont) for a 2.2g payload (yes I realize a bit heavy).
[16:31] <arko> 2.2g?
[16:31] <jellyfishtree> Wondering what the reasoning is for a 5.5m/s ascent rate?
[16:31] <jellyfishtree> yeah.
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Hi jellyfishtree
[16:31] <jellyfishtree> 2.2kg
[16:31] <jellyfishtree> sorry
[16:31] <chrisstubbs> Check out http://habhub.org/calc/
[16:31] <arko> ohh Kg!
[16:31] <arko> haha
[16:32] <arko> ok that makes more sense now
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> germany 2:9
[16:32] <mattbrejza> if you have 3~4m/s you have a float risk
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> 2:0
[16:33] <jellyfishtree> beautiful shot
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[16:33] <mattbrejza> that is it ascents and rather then bursts just sits at that altitude and drifts off
[16:33] <chrisstubbs> Basically if you aim for a low ascent rate you risk a) your payload travelling a long distance in the wind, and possibly landing in the sea (if your in the uk). And as mattbrejza says you risk the balloon entering a float
[16:33] <jellyfishtree> @chrisstubbs - checked out the calc. when i input the numbers for a 31000-33000 max alt, it gives me a faster ascent rate than 5.5. just curious if there was some reasoning behind it.
[16:34] <arko> too slow and you float, too fast and you dont hit your target high altitude
[16:34] <mattbrejza> requires move He for >5.5
[16:34] <mattbrejza> *more
[16:34] <jellyfishtree> gotcha
[16:34] <arko> 5 is a good middle ground (math just works out that way for latex balloons)
[16:34] <mattbrejza> and generally harder to fill a balloon with that much lift
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[16:35] <jellyfishtree> is there an ascent rate we would not want to go beyond?
[16:35] <jellyfishtree> like a variance from 5 that is too much? rule of thumb?
[16:35] <jellyfishtree> like >9m/s = too much?
[16:35] <mattbrejza> 4-6 is normal
[16:35] <jellyfishtree> ok
[16:36] <jellyfishtree> so I am based in the states, and will be landlocked, so not worried about the sea, but I would be worried about winds carrying us into the mountains (will be near the Rockies)
[16:36] <chrisstubbs> If you overfill your balloon it will burst at a lower altitude
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[16:36] <mattbrejza> well thats what the predictor is for :)
[16:37] <jellyfishtree> @chris - that brings me to my next question - I see the liters in the output on the calc page, but i realized that most helium tanks here dont have flowmeters on them
[16:37] <arko> jellyfishtree: where are you launching from?
[16:37] <arko> AZ?
[16:37] <jellyfishtree> do you guys have your own flowmeters or do you measure it some other way? I've heard theres a rule of thumb that you fill up enough helium to lift the payload and the payload weigh-down plus one pound extra
[16:37] <jellyfishtree> CO
[16:38] <arko> oh nice
[16:38] <jellyfishtree> eastern side of the state
[16:38] <arko> im in so cal
[16:38] <jellyfishtree> oh awesome!
[16:38] <mattbrejza> jellyfishtree: the calc gives you free lift which you can measure
[16:38] <arko> nice, a bunch of my friends just moved to boulder, good luck with flight!
[16:39] <mattbrejza> if the ascent rate isnt critical you can always use the tank pressure as a reasonable guide
[16:39] <jellyfishtree> Awesome. Im actually in Boston...traveling there because we saw a lot of launches being done around there. Have your friends mentioned anything about the weather conditions there?
[16:39] <arko> not recently
[16:39] <jellyfishtree> (also because Colorado is beautiful as f**k)
[16:39] <arko> :) very
[16:39] <jellyfishtree> (y)
[16:39] <arko> http://predict.habhub.org/
[16:39] <arko> i assume you know about this tool?
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[16:40] <jellyfishtree> yeah the burst/trip predictor
[16:40] <jellyfishtree> thanks
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[16:40] <jellyfishtree> so far everythign looks good...within 20 mile radius
[16:40] <arko> nice
[16:41] <arko> its a tricky place to fly
[16:41] <jellyfishtree> how did you measure the helium amount being put into your balloon
[16:41] <arko> west US that is
[16:41] <arko> great question
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[16:41] <jellyfishtree> oh really?
[16:41] <jellyfishtree> what kind of differences will we see west coast?
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[16:41] <arko> https://www.google.com/shopping/product/2624416303454365442?q=digital+hanging+scale&client=firefox-a&hs=1Nw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1920&bih=979&ei=Px6fU7H9E8_joATZ_4KADQ&ved=0COECEKYrMBA
[16:41] <arko> i use these
[16:41] <arko> one of these*
[16:42] <jellyfishtree> @arko - so you measure for the "neck lift" amount?
[16:42] <arko> https://www.flickr.com/photos/dmertl/14092974900/in/set-72157644453015680
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[16:42] <arko> yep!
[16:42] <arko> remember to subtract the mass of the filling tube
[16:43] <arko> the reason it sucks launching around here is mountains
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[16:43] <jellyfishtree> ah, excellent advice.
[16:43] <arko> cuts out radio and makes recovery very painful
[16:43] <arko> my second hab landed in a preserve
[16:44] <jellyfishtree> could you get permission to retrieve?
[16:44] <arko> had to hike into the turtle mountains in california
[16:44] <jellyfishtree> hahaha!
[16:44] <arko> hiking was legal there
[16:44] <arko> no driving though
[16:44] <arko> so 13mile hike in 100F+
[16:44] <jellyfishtree> oh wow, that definitely slows things down. its two of us doing this, so we got two two-way radios to split up if on foot.
[16:45] <arko> needless to say, the local search and rescue team used it as a drill exercise
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[16:45] <jellyfishtree> did you use 434 mhz?
[16:45] <arko> not for the desert flight
[16:45] <arko> APRS
[16:45] <jellyfishtree> ah, k
[16:45] <arko> much more reliable
[16:45] <arko> as there are stations around
[16:45] <jellyfishtree> really? oh snap
[16:45] <arko> check your local igates on aprs.fi
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[16:45] <jellyfishtree> i went with the NTX2, and gonna use spacenear.us
[16:46] <arko> its not listed or mapped, but you can get an idea of whos active
[16:46] <arko> oh cool
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[16:46] <arko> so i did that too
[16:46] <arko> on my 3rd flight
[16:46] <jellyfishtree> did it work out well?
[16:46] <arko> the problem i had was it went over a mountain and i was the only tracker
[16:46] <jellyfishtree> 3:0
[16:46] <arko> so i lost the payload, but an edision electric employee found it
[16:47] <arko> on a powerlines.. and called me to pick it up
[16:47] <arko> got lucky
[16:47] <arko> but it tracked well going up
[16:47] <jellyfishtree> lol
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> YES
[16:47] <arko> the 434/ukhas standard is great
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> stream died as it happened jellyfishtree :(
[16:47] <arko> but you need the people to track it :)
[16:47] <jellyfishtree> oh noo
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:48] <jellyfishtree> well, there will be two of us...hopefully we can figure our way through things
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:48] <arko> good luck
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> and fifa.com works too
[16:48] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:49] <jellyfishtree> @arko - did you use PWM or MFSK ?
[16:49] <arko> PWM to what?
[16:49] <arko> im confused
[16:50] <jellyfishtree> sidenote - If the guy who wrote teh arduino-NTX2 FAQ is on here...big thanks to him. I might suggest you make an addendum that you can adjust the shift distance by adding/removing resistors to the TXD line
[16:50] <arko> Upu is usually around
[16:50] <arko> and daveake
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[16:50] <jellyfishtree> since the revised version he removed a 47k resistor from the gpio in that made the shift
[16:50] <arko> oh, you mean RTTY
[16:50] <Upu> thats sort of covered in part 3 Domino :)
[16:50] <jellyfishtree> yeah for RTTY
[16:51] <arko> MFSK is thor, domino, etc
[16:51] <arko> speak of the upu and he shall arise
[16:51] <jellyfishtree> well..even before that. the shift is much much less than 425hz
[16:51] <jellyfishtree> the two freqs overlap
[16:51] <jellyfishtree> and cant decipher
[16:51] <jellyfishtree> maybe i did something wrong :)
[16:51] <jellyfishtree> :(
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[16:53] <jellyfishtree> @arko - sorry man...yeah. so did you end up using RTTY or DominoEx?
[16:53] <arko> on my 3rd flight i used RTTY
[16:53] <mfa298> jellyfishtree: if the receiver is close to the transmitter you may find it's overloading the reciever.
[16:53] <jellyfishtree> ahhh that might be it
[16:53] <jellyfishtree> i was within a few feet
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> back
[16:54] <mfa298> when I've been testing I've tended to have at least a few meters between tx and rx with no antenna on the rx and not much antenna on the tx.
[16:54] <Upu> you set the shift by varying the PWM #
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> you mean the number in the analogWrite command?
[16:55] <Upu> yes
[16:55] <Upu> analogWrite(RADIOPIN,100);
[16:55] <Upu> delay(500);
[16:55] <Upu> analogWrite(RADIOPIN,110);
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> yeah
[16:55] <Upu> have a play
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> i tried bumping it up to 500...i guess the Uno only goes up to 256?
[16:55] <Upu> but you're correct you can fiddle the min step with a resistor
[16:55] <Upu> heh
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> thanks Upu
[16:55] <Upu> yeah 8 bits
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> haha
[16:55] <jellyfishtree> im an idiot
[16:56] <jellyfishtree> Is there a specific kind of Yagi i need to get for 434mhz?
[16:56] <Upu> 434Mhz one
[16:56] <arko> lol
[16:56] <jellyfishtree> *_*
[16:56] <Upu> Arrow II is really nice if you can afford it
[16:57] <arko> http://habexproject.org/cubex/#stationsetup
[16:57] <Upu> http://www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/440-5ii.html
[16:57] <arko> jellyfishtree: highly recommend getting a http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=83
[16:58] <jellyfishtree> checking em out now
[16:58] <arko> the filter/amp really helps
[17:01] <jellyfishtree> cool. not necessary but cleans up reception a lot eh?
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[17:02] <arko> yeah
[17:03] <arko> i live near radio towers
[17:03] <mfa298> jellyfishtree: depends a bit on what radio you're using to receive. But if it's a rtlsdr you're using the habamp is well worth considering. It may not be needed as much with more sensitive radios
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[17:03] <arko> but helps if you are transmitting at like 10mW
[17:04] <jellyfishtree> good to know. other than the radial antenna, did you add any sort of signal amp to the NTX2?
[17:06] <mfa298> jellyfishtree: you may need to check local laws to see what's allowed for the radio transmitter side.
[17:06] <mfa298> In the UK we're limited to 10mW on 434MHz as part of the ISM (license exampt band)
[17:07] <Lunar_Lander> game continues
[17:08] <jellyfishtree> well, 434 in general is license required
[17:08] <jellyfishtree> in the US
[17:08] <jellyfishtree> or at least so i hear
[17:09] <mfa298> If you're doing it under an Amateur radio license then I think you can use lots of power - although that potentially leads to heat issues and requires more batteries
[17:09] <jellyfishtree> indeed, and weight additions
[17:10] <jellyfishtree> i guess i'll have to look into transmiter amplifiers? i have no idea about this...
[17:10] <arko> no way!
[17:10] <jellyfishtree> what?
[17:10] <arko> the NTX2 is like 300mW max i think
[17:10] <arko> plenty of power
[17:11] <mfa298> during flights in England/EU we've generally not had an issue with 10mW from the ntx2. The limiting factor tends to be line of sight.
[17:11] <jellyfishtree> yeah data sheet says Transmit power: +10dBm (10mW) or +14dBm (25mW HP variant)
[17:12] <arko> psh, plenty
[17:12] <mfa298> from memory it's the HX1 that's 300mW
[17:12] <arko> ahhh
[17:12] <arko> good call, yeah
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[17:12] <mfa298> record is something like 800km with 10mW from the ntx2
[17:13] <arko> but you could hack the ntx2 to be 100mW ;)
[17:13] <jellyfishtree> holy crap!
[17:13] <jellyfishtree> well, no way im flying to retrieve this thing lol
[17:13] <jellyfishtree> or chartering an ocean vessel
[17:14] <mfa298> a decent receiver and yagi helps for the longer range receivers - I think that was someone in Holland receiving a flgiht over the UK.
[17:14] <mfa298> the real key is to try and stay close to the balloon - especially as it comes down as the range will reduce as it comes down
[17:15] <jellyfishtree> ahhh
[17:15] <mfa298> If you can get in touch with local amateurs then you might find some of them are able to help you track it.
[17:16] <jellyfishtree> gonna try and reach out to the local club near the launch site
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[17:17] <jellyfishtree> so right now i've been using Gqrx on mac...but i see most people using SDR#
[17:17] <jellyfishtree> do you guys suggest I use SDR#?
[17:17] <mfa298> there's a reasonable number using gqrx on mac and linux
[17:17] <jellyfishtree> coolness
[17:17] <mfa298> sdr# tends to be the recommended route for new people on windows as it's relatively easy to use.
[17:18] <jellyfishtree> i am having trouble with gqrx and setting its sound card. it doesnt want to set it
[17:18] <jellyfishtree> so i might end up switching
[17:18] <jellyfishtree> or trying some older versions of it
[17:20] <jellyfishtree> alright...i gotta return to work. thank you arko, mfa, Upu, everyone for your help again
[17:20] <arko> good luck!
[17:21] <jellyfishtree> thanks - ah last question - did you guys build a gimbal for your spot/secondary gps?
[17:21] <mfa298> no problems. It's always better to ask questions and have something that works rather than the approach most uni groups here seem to use of assuming they know best and then having lots of silly problems
[17:22] <mfa298> a couple of people have made gimbals for spot / cameras
[17:22] <mfa298> most of the UK people (at least those on IRC) don't bother with SPOT
[17:22] <jellyfishtree> i tested my spot inside the payload container inside a car face down and it still seems to work well.
[17:22] <jellyfishtree> but lots of people saying on their pages its very directional
[17:23] <jellyfishtree> @mfa - thanks. you and everyone here is really knowledgeable and helps fill in the gaps that i cant working on this on my own.
[17:23] <jellyfishtree> (well, the two of us working on it on our own
[17:23] <jellyfishtree> )
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> another portugese player injured
[17:29] <Upu> Lunar footy is ot sssh :)
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:35] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> I thought of some HAB related things today
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> making the balloon computer more versatile
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> reading university put out another paper where they measure charge and the opamps need several positive and negative voltages, and they built a interface system to connect their sensors to the Vaisala sondes they fly on
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> one part delivers an assortment of voltages from the Vaisala 8 V supply
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> and the other part connects to the sensors
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> I thought of that because some of the things they built are not really 3.3V compliant
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[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> so I figured if it might be useful to have higher voltages or so, to have some sort of Interface Block
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> would be handy
[17:43] <mattbrejza> https://imgflip.com/i/9lznd
[17:44] <LeoBodnar> Where's Ed?
[17:44] <LeoBodnar> He'd be truly instrumental to this discussion
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[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> I think we first have to assess what we need
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> and design the system from there
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> well
[18:04] <Lunar_Lander> how are your projects going?
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane_
[19:13] <mclane_> Hi Lunar_Lander - alles gut?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> ja, und bei dir?
[19:14] <mclane_> basst scho
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[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> ja
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> how was PYSY9?
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> despite the landing on the former military range
[19:16] <mclane_> quite successfull. we reached >37 km; more then expected
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[19:16] <mclane_> ssdv picture transmission also worked fine
[19:17] <mclane_> so my modified pcb in combination with a raspi proved to be quite usable
[19:17] <mclane_> we might fly PYSY10 on Saturday
[19:18] <mclane_> provided that we will get some hydrogen until then
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[19:33] <aadamson> hehe, testy bunch over here around their lift prediction software... too bad it won't run on any 64 bit OS :)
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:49] <mattbrejza> :/
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> mclane_, so not so much testing until saturday because the flight went good?
[19:53] <mclane_> yea, only some minor changes planned: I have modified my compracced error-corrected telegram format and we will add an UV senor which we have flown last year already
[19:54] <mclane_> *compressed
[19:54] <mclane_> not compracced
[19:56] <aadamson> nice word however :)
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[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> what is that sensor?
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> I mean the model nr
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[20:02] <mclane_> it is a GaN Photodiode
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:02] <mclane_> GUVA-T1GD
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> is it already filtered for UVA, as the name says?
[20:04] <mclane_> there is no filter; the band gap of GaN corresponds to UVA
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[20:05] <mclane_> it is sensitive between 220nm and 380 nm
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[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and then you convert the photocurrent to a voltage and measure at the micro
[20:05] <mclane_> yes
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[20:06] <mclane_> problem is pointing towards the sun
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> currently thinking about that a lot
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[20:08] <mclane_> so I have designed a kind of diffusing reflector
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:09] <mclane_> (half-spere with aluminum foil)
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> sounds a bit what Erich Regener did in the 1930's
[20:10] <mclane_> not perfect, but better then nothing
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> he had a reflecting disk below the payload, so the spectrograph looked at that
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> and there was a shader above that to only let in sunlight
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> was a bit of a complicated contraption, but was interesting
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[20:15] <mikestir> anyone tried getting fldigi to fine tune the rig via CAT? Can it do that?
[20:15] <mclane_> I also plan to fly a spectrograph (probably not in PYSY10 yet)
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> mclane_, http://s.gullipics.com/image/8/f/v/5yv5fh-karisj-ln6r/Bildschirmfotovom20140616221534.png
[20:17] <DL7AD> good evening1
[20:17] <mclane_> Lunar_Lander: where can I find this article?
[20:18] <mclane_> Hi Sven - how was your flight?
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah mclane_ you need to have university access
[20:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> mikestir: I have dl-fldigi tuning SDR-radio via CAT
[20:40] <mfa298> mikestir: I've got it setup with my ts-2000, seems to work reasonably well
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[20:47] <db_g6gzh> mikestir: using the Hamlib library with IC-R7000 and this CI-V interface http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/P1010408.JPG 8-)
[20:48] <Upu> lol wtf
[20:48] <Upu> thats amazing
[20:48] <db_g6gzh> who needs this new-fangled PCB stuff
[20:48] <DL7AD> mclane_: sry. have been absent. i had electrical problems in the end.
[20:48] <arko> thats legit
[20:49] <DL7AD> mclane_: suddently everything (except of the engine) went black
[20:49] <mclane_> scary...
[20:49] <mikestir> db_g6gzh: your setup is most similar I think. I can control the rig both ways using GRig so the Hamlib stuff seems to work. Fldigi shows the frequency, but doesn't seem to tune it
[20:50] <db_g6gzh> mikestir: DL Client -> configure then at the bottom
[20:51] <mikestir> oh yeah. right let me see if it works with the olivia modem
[20:51] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> some of the MFSK modes don't allow AFC to work, thats why RSID helps
[20:52] <db_g6gzh> you can also click the numbers in fl-digi frequency display to manually tune and check the interface works
[20:53] <mikestir> right. it does tune if I click outside of the 1kHz->2kHz sweet spot, but it doesn't do it automatically because (as Geoff-G8DHE-M says) the AFC doesn't work
[20:54] <mikestir> the modem does generate a frequency offset so it could be made to work. I'll need to make a little patch
[20:54] <mikestir> Geoff-G8DHE-M: unfortunately I can't generate RSID on my hardware because I can't get the necessary tone step
[20:54] <db_g6gzh> or, as Geoff says, RSID will also cause it to tune
[20:54] <db_g6gzh> ah, OK 8-)
[20:55] <mikestir> I was annoyed about that. RSID is based on 11.025 kHz sample rate, and pretty much everything else is based on 8 kHz
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[21:29] <DL7AD> hi mclane_
[21:30] <mclane_> Hi Sven
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> wb DL7AD
[21:30] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:37] <DL7AD> fine :)
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:45] <S_Mark> anyones nichrome wire cutdown failed on them on a previous launch?
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> I had one flight and one success
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> so no data on that
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> better quit on a high
[21:48] <craag> Daves first teddy cutdown failed
[21:49] <craag> Can't remember exactly why, but more current the second time round did the trick.
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD Leo
[21:52] <S_Mark> ah ok, thanks for the info
[21:52] <craag> I think there's a proper writeup on it on his blog
[21:52] <S_Mark> I'll take a look
[21:52] <craag> (the 1st beating-felix attempt)
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[22:23] <Laurenceb> the teddy failed due to very silly "design"
[22:23] <Laurenceb> the nylon line didnt even touch the resistor in the middle
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:39] <daveake> not sure it was that ... not enough power
[22:39] <daveake> The resistor was only slightly discoloured after
[22:39] <daveake> Also it was outside the payload so started at -50 or something like that
[22:41] <Laurenceb> ive always used 0.125W with 2.5W through it
[22:42] <daveake> Certainly there wasn't anything to ensure the nylon didn't slip, and it did slip. All resolved second time out
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 17 2014