highaltitude.log.20140606

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[01:50] <N2NXZ> Been awhile since testing Dl-fldigi,but need some advise.Is there a way to test uploading still usoing the audio file from Icarus?Or has that since changed?
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[01:51] <N2NXZ> I have a friend on the East coast that is learning to use the program for future balloon launches and needs to see how it operates
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[06:32] <Rebounder> morrn!
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[06:53] <sp2ipt> hi
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[06:55] <malgar> help help! we will launch in 2 hours and we have a parsing problem by habhub. the time field is set as float and not as Time could you change it? thank you payload ID: 31ca4c291532813239e4e297113efdd8
[06:55] <iz2kzv> ops
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[06:59] <malgar> adamgreig:
[06:59] <malgar> Upu:
[06:59] <malgar> UpuWork:
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[07:00] <malgar> we need an admin that could approve documents
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[07:46] <iz4002swl> iz4002swl pronto
[07:49] <DL7AD> who wrote the text in the info box of snus? 05/06/14 isnt actually friday. i thought the balloons already flew.
[07:49] <Upu> I though from the mail both were flying yesterday Sven
[07:49] <Upu> I'll fix it
[07:50] <Upu> done
[07:50] <MightyMik> 5/6/14 is frisay... here this side of the pond : )
[07:50] <DL7AD> ah okay
[07:51] <DL7AD> MightyMik: ah yes sure. my mistake
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[08:00] <mfa298> MightyMik: are you sure about that ?
[08:01] <MightyMik> oops... that was last month. time flies
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[08:01] <MightyMik> and it wasn't a friday
[08:01] <brixxx> hello
[08:02] <brixxx> no malgar today
[08:02] <iz2kzv> brixxx: is somewhere here around
[08:03] <brixxx> ok thanks :) I dont see anything on the tracker page yet
[08:03] <in3aqk> Good morning from suedtirol
[08:04] <brixxx> guten morgen freund
[08:06] <in3aqk> morgen
[08:10] <brixxx> your nick is the name of your base station or something like that?
[08:11] <in3aqk> my nick name is my hamradio callsign and also the name of my base station that today willo not track
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[08:25] <iz2kzv> any news from malgar?
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[08:34] <iz2kzv> zzzzz...
[08:35] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:glossary:ish
[08:37] <iz2kzv> fsphil: they should add italian-ISH
[08:37] <fsphil> ISH is universal
[08:37] <fsphil> it's not even confined to earth
[08:38] <fsphil> the rosetta spacecraft's wake up timer was running on ISH time
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[08:42] <iz2kzv> italian-ISH is much more undetermined: "the launch will be at 10:00 or when I will finish my cappuccino"
[08:42] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> Guest32896
[08:43] <fsphil> +/-3 hours should cover that :)
[08:45] <mfa298> depends if it's the current cappuccino or the 10th one the launch will be after
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[09:21] <iz2kzv> launched
[09:25] <Upu> do you know exact frequency ?
[09:26] <Upu> I'm on a tuner in Verona
[09:27] <iz2kzv> 434.350
[09:27] <iz4002swl> sale 1928 m
[09:28] <iz4002swl> a modena no signal
[09:29] <iz2kzv> still too low
[09:29] <iz4002swl> è ancora basso
[09:32] <iz4002swl> agganciato
[09:32] <iz2kzv> start hearing the sound
[09:32] <fsphil> hopefully the radio is on
[09:32] <Upu> this global tuner seems to be good for 434
[09:32] <Upu> but unable to hear
[09:33] <iz2kzv> hopefully the gps will not hung :-)
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[09:33] <iz4002swl> telemetria in salita
[09:33] <iz2kzv> decoding
[09:34] <Upu> whats the exact frequency iz2kzv ?
[09:34] <iz4002swl> qrb 216 km
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[09:34] <iz2kzv> 434.350 + 2100hz
[09:35] <Upu> ta
[09:35] <Upu> can't hear it
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[09:36] <iz4002swl> 434.358 + 1200
[09:36] <malgar> ciao balloon launched :)
[09:36] <iz4002swl> 434.350 +1200
[09:36] <malgar> almost an hour of delay
[09:37] <iz2kzv> malgar: all ok?
[09:38] <malgar> everithing nominal :) inside temeperature is broken but we knew this a week ago
[09:39] <iz2kzv> so the payload is not a fridge :-)
[09:39] <brixxx> hey!
[09:39] <brixxx> balloon launched now?
[09:40] <iz2kzv> yessss
[09:40] Nick change: brixxx -> ipsebrixit
[09:40] <ipsebrixit> super
[09:40] <ipsebrixit> sooo it should appear
[09:41] <ipsebrixit> how is the weather there in Caldonatsow? 35C?
[09:43] <iz2kzv> google says 24 C :-)
[09:44] <ipsebrixit> oh it's colder than here :)
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[09:46] <ipsebrixit> i don't see the balloon...
[09:46] <fsphil> you people and your 20 degrees celcuis
[09:46] <fsphil> it's 15c here today :p
[09:46] <iz4002swl> telemetria in salita
[09:47] <ipsebrixit> :P
[09:48] <ipsebrixit> here it's going up 2C/hour since 7am
[09:48] <ipsebrixit> iz4002swl: i;m looking on spacenear.us but i dont see the balloon (I see one but near Cles)
[09:49] <iz2kzv> ipse: I see PILATI
[09:49] <iz2kzv> ipse: it's near Cles
[09:49] <malclocke> its the blue one
[09:49] <iz2kzv> it was launched from Cles
[09:50] <ipsebrixit> I think malgar's one is ATLANTIS, isnt it?
[09:50] <ipsebrixit> ah
[09:50] <ipsebrixit> uhm wtf
[09:50] <iz2kzv> both were launched by malgar
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[09:52] <iz2kzv> malgar: still low ascent rate... more helium! more helium! :-)
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[09:53] <ipsebrixit> it doesn't show me the vertical speed, anyway
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[10:00] <ipsebrixit> any of you is in the chasing car? :)
[10:00] <ipsebrixit> it's going towards malgar's home :P
[10:00] <IN3AQK_> Pilati it's passing on the long final of bolzano airport ..... finger crossed
[10:01] <IN3AQK_> just in the airway from brennero to vicenza vor
[10:02] <ipsebrixit> IN3AQK_: do you have a working link?
[10:02] <ipsebrixit> it looks stuck to me...
[10:02] <ipsebrixit> oh now it has moved
[10:02] <IN3AQK_> no tracking form me today i'm in office
[10:02] <malgar> IN3AQK_: ok :)
[10:04] <ipsebrixit> it's unbelievable how it is forecasted to turn back on its steps
[10:08] <malgar> ipsebrixit: that forecast works weel only after balloon burst
[10:08] <malgar> well
[10:09] <iz2kzv> it will land in malgar's backyard :-)
[10:09] <ipsebrixit> ok :) but in any case, I mean, there is some strong wind inversion
[10:09] <ipsebrixit> hahah
[10:10] <ipsebrixit> no, in the lake near Molina :P
[10:10] <ipsebrixit> *SPLONF*
[10:10] <ipsebrixit> is it designed to float?
[10:12] <iz2kzv> to flight, float, sky and even climb mountains
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[10:16] <ipsebrixit> and makes a free coffee to the first one to find it after landing
[10:17] <iz2kzv> absolutely
[10:17] <iz2kzv> espresso! it's an italian payload
[10:21] <ipsebrixit> we should stick a george clooney's portrait on it
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[10:37] <gonzo_> it would be freeze dried after a spell at 30km
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[10:56] <om1ats> nice signal from Slovakia
[10:57] <om1ats> still under horizont -0.2°
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[10:58] <malgar> om1ats: thank you for listening us :)
[10:59] <malgar> we are at the launch site
[10:59] <malgar> following the flight
[11:02] <Upu> looks like its coming back your way anyway
[11:05] <om1ats> in PILATI is ublox MAX-7C gps ?
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[11:26] <PE2G> GA, anybody who knows what the expected burst altitude of HAB_PILATI is?
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[11:31] <om1ats> live stream from slovakia http://stream.sepia.sk:8000/hab.aac
[11:37] <Maxell> happy leet \o/
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[11:57] <PE2G> OM1ATS: On what precise QRG do you have HAB_PILATI ?
[12:00] <IN3AQK_> 434350
[12:00] <PE2G> Spot on?
[12:00] <IN3AQK_> ?
[12:01] <PE2G> Exactly on 434.350 MHz?
[12:01] <IN3AQK_> yes +- 1 khz
[12:02] <PE2G> IN3AQK_: Roger, thanks.
[12:04] <NickB> Coming down
[12:04] <IN3AQK_> bumm
[12:06] <NickB> prediction seems to have changed a lot now
[12:10] <ipsebrixit> wow 30km
[12:11] <ipsebrixit> I fear you'll have to climb to get it back, guys :)
[12:11] <ipsebrixit> so, this abrupt change in wind direction around 18km is the limit between tropo- and stratosphere?
[12:12] <ipsebrixit> it should be around 12km
[12:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> More a case of the jetstream changing
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[12:38] <jededu> During the flight on wednesday the TMP102 sensor registered 78 deg at one point
[12:43] <ipsebrixit> Kelvin?
[12:43] <ipsebrixit> ok HAB_PILATI seems stuck..
[12:43] <ipsebrixit> :/
[12:44] <ipsebrixit> anyway, it's probably going to land on the Rosergarten mountain ^^
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[12:45] <mattbrejza> http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/ will probably just land on the side next to that path
[12:45] <mattbrejza> still quite a walk
[12:46] <ipsebrixit> well.. I think the probability it lands just aside the path is quite reduced :(
[12:47] <ipsebrixit> I don't know how is there exactly, but maybe it gets stuck on some tree
[12:47] <mattbrejza> the prediction is also probably meaningless inside the valley
[12:47] <ipsebrixit> (ok there's the wire-cutting thing, but still...)
[12:47] <mattbrejza> seems relatively tree free on google earth
[12:47] <ipsebrixit> ah ok
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[12:59] <iz2kzv> are they chasing Pilati?
[13:01] <ipsebrixit> I don't know, but I guess
[13:01] <ipsebrixit> ok malgar just told me it's in zone Carezza See
[13:05] <Maxell> Rosergarten mountain?
[13:06] <Maxell> Recovering at mountains sounds hard.
[13:06] <ipsebrixit> apparently it has landed close to a nice zone
[13:07] <ipsebrixit> http://www.grandhotelcarezza.it/images/Karersee04.jpg
[13:07] <ipsebrixit> not in the lake, I hope :D
[13:08] <iz2kzv> not on a tree, I hope :-)
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[13:11] <iz2kzv> mhhh... chasing car... 93km/h.... the limit is 90... :-)
[13:11] <IN3AQK_> is suetirol in 89 kmh
[13:12] <IN3AQK_> in suedtirol is 89 kmh..
[13:14] <ipsebrixit> they've plenty of money to pay the fine
[13:14] <IN3AQK_> we have...
[13:14] <IN3AQK_> :-)
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[13:19] <malgar> www.ustream.us/user/tvatlantis recorded video of launch and LIVE video of recovering
[13:19] <malgar> live is not active
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[13:20] <malgar> 46.409245, 11.646073 coordinates from gps tracker
[13:20] <malgar> spped: 0
[13:20] <malgar> speed
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[13:20] <iz2kzv> on a tree?
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[13:25] <malgar> nah
[13:25] <malgar> grass
[13:26] <malgar> 1700 m asl
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[14:43] <ipsebrixit> malgar: recovered?
[14:44] <iz2kzv> they are burying the corpse
[14:45] <malgar> found by a hiker
[14:45] <malgar> he call us few minutes ago
[14:45] <iz2kzv> wow
[14:45] <malgar> the payload now is at his home
[14:46] <iz2kzv> honest
[14:46] <malgar> and our recovery team was a bit disappointed because they were already on the landing point
[14:46] <malgar> and they found nothing :P
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> :D really :D
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> ahahah
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> great
[14:47] <iz2kzv> yes... they are on the map on the spot
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> yeah I see them too
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> and this guy lives in Salzburg?
[14:47] <ipsebrixit> :P
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[15:25] <ian__> Did the hiker have lots of cappuccino at his home with the HAB . . . party time !
[15:31] <iz2kzv> ian: in South Tirol they have speck and strudel :-)
[15:44] <Upu> so not recovered malgar ?
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[15:48] <iz2kzv> upu: i think they will recover from the hiker
[15:48] <Upu> ah ok
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[15:57] <ProSpectre> afternoon gents
[15:57] <ProSpectre> any balloons planed for this weekend?
[16:07] <daveake> Have you signed up to the mailing list and got the UKHAS calendar?
[16:07] <daveake> Most launches get onto at least one of those two
[16:08] <daveake> Calendar shows "PYSY 9" tomorrow morning
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[16:11] <malgar> Upu: recovered
[16:11] <Upu> excellent
[16:11] <Upu> congrats
[16:11] <Upu> look forward to the pics
[16:12] <malgar> unfortunately the camera worked just 20 min.. anyway.. shit happens :) yesterday it worked the whole fly
[16:12] <Upu> can you take screen shots etc from Spacenear.us as I will need to remove the flights soon
[16:12] <malgar> ook
[16:12] <Upu> before tommorrow morning
[16:12] <Upu> no rush
[16:14] <malgar> Upu: thank you a lot for your suppord during these 2 days
[16:14] <malgar> support
[16:14] <malgar> ;)
[16:15] <malgar> and the weeks before too
[16:15] <Upu> more than welcome
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[16:27] <jededu> do only approved flight docs appear on the calendar
[16:27] <daveake> yes
[16:27] <jededu> Ok thx
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[16:42] <malgar> where can I visualiza stats of our launches? I know http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs. Are there other services?
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[16:43] <mattbrejza> habitat.habhub.org/ept + excel/etc
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[16:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you take the link from SNUS to Google Earth you can save the direct KMZ/L files
[16:49] <lz1dev> malgar: http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[16:49] <malgar> lz1dev: I know that
[16:49] <malgar> ok tnx
[16:50] <lz1dev> theres a graph at the bottom :)
[16:50] <malgar> i know
[16:50] <malgar> :)
[16:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> If I get a chance this evening I'll stick some Object Movies up for each flight
[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do you have coordinates of actual landing spots malgar ?
[16:51] <malgar> yes
[16:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> can you make them available ?
[16:52] <malgar> sure
[16:53] <malgar> today (HAB_PILATI): 46.409245,11.646073
[16:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK
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[16:55] <malgar> yesterday (ATLANTIS): 45.969009,12.356848
[16:55] <malgar> why do you need them?
[16:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> When I plot the OM I can show the acual landing spot rather than the last Rx telementry
[16:56] <malgar> Geoff-G8DHE: important: today the altitude of the landing point was 1700 m asl
[16:56] <malgar> OM?
[16:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK, should be able to get that from GE as well but it helps place OM + Object Movie
[16:56] <malgar> what is that?
[16:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> See http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/CEDARS_20140405/CEDAR_20140405.html
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[17:26] <aadamson> Upu, mikestir do either of you use a DC blocking cap on the output of the TCXO to the input of whereever you use it? If so what value cap... the TXCO that I want to use is the kt2520 in 1.8v and it wants a dc blocking cap on it's output greater than 1nf
[17:27] <aadamson> or better put an AC coupling cap :)
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[17:58] <DL7AD> fsphil: omg 25°C here in berlin
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[17:58] <DL7AD> fsphil: sry. its 26
[18:03] <jededu> Anybody know how much current a picamera draws
[18:07] <craag> jededu: About 250mA at 3V I think
[18:08] <craag> 3.3V even
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[18:17] <DL7AD> craag: but only when a picture is taken, right?
[18:19] <craag> Yes.. the camera will run for a period before capturing the frame to get the levels right
[18:19] <craag> During that period it will draw this current
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[18:32] <mfa298> jededu: what craag sounds similar to what I've found previously. I also found if you're taking a full frame image using the image port (rather than the video port) it takes ~1s for the capture process. You may also want to have it running for couple of seconds before actually doing the capture for things to stabalise (although I'm not sure it makes a huge difference)
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[18:35] <craag> I played around a bit with the warmup period and found that >1.5s seemed to be best. Less than that gave variable results when going from a bright/dark scene.
[18:35] <craag> Most people tend to use 2s I think
[18:39] <mikestir> aadamson: I don't use a tcxo, but you just need to select a capacitor so that its reactance is negligible compared with the 4060's input impedance at the operating frequency. You also need to make sure its value isn't too high so that it appears inductive. 1nF or 10nF should be fine
[18:40] <mikestir> let me clarify that last bit - it's value shouldn't be so high that it starts to appear inductive
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[18:42] <mfa298> I've not had to worry about that so far. Just turn the camera on and leave it on 24/7 until the Pi crashes or I shut the whole lot down to see what breaks.
[18:42] <mfa298> although that set of pi's are now packed up for a while as theres other interesting stuff to play with at work.
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[18:46] <aadamson> mikestir, thanks you and Lawrenceb agree :)... what I used...btw, are you able to calibrate based upon the TIMEPULSE?
[18:46] <aadamson> I brought that pin over to my processor on a timer pin with this board spin just in case
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[19:10] <jededu> craag mfa298 thanks I can work it out from that
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> malgar, Two object movies here also if you want the zipped files same name but extension .zip http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/PILATI_20140606/index.php?ind=0
[19:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> likewise for ATLANTIS flight http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/ATLANTIS_20140605/
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[19:30] Action: cm13g09 plays whack-a-mole with OpenSSL and its bugs :P
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[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:48] <Upu> hi Tom
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[19:52] <DL7AD> hi SP9UOB-Tom
[19:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hi Sven
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> prediction is looking good: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=af82c827da79f03b87ac89123839f5b8ba0903f5
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[20:00] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> so did anyone did ever any work on temperature sensor solar shielding?
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[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> we had our sensor in a aluminum foil clad cardbord roll, and on ascent you could see the temperature increasing somewhat, and when the balloon detached, you had a near constant temperature until hitting the tropopause
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[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> so that method wasn't the best to be honest
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[20:26] <chrisstubbs> Evening Lunar_Lander
[20:26] <Upu> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:26] <Upu> you wanted to throw an idea round
[20:26] <Upu> shoot
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[20:28] <chrisstubbs> Hey upu
[20:28] <Upu> evening Chris
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> Think Lunar_Lander is having IRC trouble
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> seems to be good now
[20:29] <chrisstubbs> andddd hes back
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, yea WiFi seems to act up here
[20:29] <Upu> are you coming to the conference Lunar ?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> if I somehow get together enough money for it, I would like to
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[20:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> conference.. right this remind me that i dont have place to sleep... Have to fix it
[20:31] <Upu> hehe
[20:31] <Upu> need people to buy tickets
[20:31] <Upu> come on people
[20:31] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: claim the travel costs from the uni ;)
[20:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: at Yout store?
[20:33] <Upu> no direct from the page
[20:33] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2014
[20:33] <mattbrejza> see title ^ :)
[20:33] <mattbrejza> or that
[20:33] <Upu> I set up a seperate paypal
[20:33] <Upu> as last year the fees etc cause my accounts real confusion
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[20:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: done
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> mattbrejza, good idea xD
[20:34] <Upu> thanks Tom
[20:34] <Upu> do you want your pen back from last year ? :)
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[20:34] <mattbrejza> go through last years list and bug everyone individually...
[20:35] <Upu> sure be nice to get some new people too
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: no thanks, but i can bring You more ;-)
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> but the idea I wanted to say is
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> for reference: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirationspsychrometer_nach_A%C3%9Fmann
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> in meteorology, people use these things for exact air temperature measurements
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: propably i take Maciej from Copernicus Project with me
[20:35] <mattbrejza> sounds like a torture device
[20:35] <Upu> cool Tom
[20:35] <Upu> lol
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> the idea is that the dome at the top contains a fan drawing air through the tubes across the bulbs
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:36] <Upu> yeah you Germans have some wonderful words for stuff
[20:36] <Upu> Aspirationspsychrometer nach Aßmann = thermometer
[20:36] <Upu> ?
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> also im working on Radim OM2AMR and Dano OM2ATS ;-)
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah well more like "ventilated dry+wet bulb thermometer"
[20:36] <Upu> yeah we need to get those two across
[20:36] <Upu> I'll work on those as I owe them many many beers
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> This name reminds me scene from "Euro Trip" movie :-)
[20:37] <Upu> whats the end game Lunar_Lander, more accurate temp readings ?
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyone seen that movie :) ?
[20:37] <Upu> nope...
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes, the bare metal tubes and the ventilation are for getting the solar radiation error as small as possible
[20:37] <mattbrejza> not recently but i think i know the bit you mean... :P
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[20:38] <Upu> I suspect the best way is to look out the proper radio sondes do it Lunar_Lander
[20:38] <mattbrejza> Lunar_Lander: i reckon using a very thin wire might work well
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> that is true, Vaisala has a very thin capacitive temp sensor
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:38] <mattbrejza> responds to air temp quickely, very small surface area for solar radiation
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:38] <Upu> Did you see Radim's comparison between a Vaisala temp and a DS18B21 ?
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes I remember it
[20:39] <Upu> http://stsproject.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Screen-Shot-2012-09-18-at-17.12.09.png
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> his DS18B20 was in a plastic bag I think without any shielding
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> the people at Vaisala did a really good job in making the sensor
[20:40] <mattbrejza> im surprised the ds18b20 even did that well
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:40] <Upu> I was quite impressed
[20:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> i've found it :-)) LOL
[20:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-2dN9E8vPk
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> and ours was in that toilet paper roll and measured about -60°C in the tropopause
[20:42] <Upu> lol Tom
[20:42] <Upu> top tip never use "harder" as a safe word
[20:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> FLUG...something ;-)
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> XD Rammstein
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> LOOOOOOOL
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[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> rather looks like a safe password
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[20:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: there is also scene when UK football fans came to Farnce LOOOOOL....
[20:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> France
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdP0JXZpbx0
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> from 5:20
[20:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> ROTFL
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[20:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> great movie, light and funny :-)
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[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> OK my idea that I had was a different one before trying to construct a fine wire sensor
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> to simply have a speed-controlled fan on the tube
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[20:54] <arko> SP9UOB-Tom: haha, awesome movie
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> that the density at 30 km is only 1/100 of that at sea level is the challenge though
[20:54] <arko> note my irc domain vanderse.xxx :)
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[20:55] Nick change: IRC_ukhas -> astrobiologist
[20:56] <astrobiologist> hi can I ask some newbie questions about HF, one of them ham-related?
[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: im recommending You to watch full movie :-)
[20:56] <astrobiologist> I mean HAB-related?
[20:56] <Upu> Evening Oliver
[20:56] <arko> oh! i have!
[20:56] <Upu> ask away
[20:56] <arko> SP9UOB-Tom: thats why i have the domain ;)
[20:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: :-)))
[20:56] <arko> watched it before coming to the uk
[20:57] <astrobiologist> thanks! Question 1: does a balanced antenna, i.e a dipole, have a different type of SWR meter?
[20:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: i love this movie :-)
[20:57] <arko> haha
[20:57] <astrobiologist> Question2: Are we allowed to transmit airborne in any of the HF bands?
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> negative
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[20:58] <astrobiologist> (negative to which Q Lunar_lander?)
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah airborne use of any amateur frequencies is prohibited in the UK
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> (despite the ISM bands)
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: no, You just have to use balun
[20:58] <mattbrejza> swr meters are probably all single ended so you should really use a balun
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[20:59] <myself> Heh. Y'all need to move to the US.
[20:59] <Upu> no ta
[20:59] <astrobiologist> I was looking at some really cute QRP HF kits. I was even wondering if they could be flown on balloons...
[21:00] <astrobiologist> but if not, then I was wondering how to tune the antennae.
[21:00] <mattbrejza> fyi there are HF ism allocations
[21:00] <astrobiologist> ism mattbrejza? (newbie apologies)
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> well: from Radio Regulations (RR) 1.63 earth station: A station located either on the Earth's surface or within the major
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> portion of the Earth's atmosphere and intended for communication:
[21:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> so, HAB is more like "sattelite" station
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> 434 MHz at 10 mW
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> the NTX2 transmitters Upu sells are OK for balloon use
[21:02] <mattbrejza> ism are the free to use bands outlined in the ofcom document ir2030
[21:02] <mattbrejza> the 10mW 434MHz thing we use is ISM
[21:03] <mattbrejza> there are also ones at 6MHz, 27.12MHz, and perhaps otheres
[21:03] <mattbrejza> all "10mW"
[21:03] <astrobiologist> SP9UOB-Tom coming back to the balun question, is it basically attached in reverse for antenna tuning a transmitter which has a balanced output?
[21:04] <astrobiologist> ah does ism mean license-exempt? These little qrp kits are minimal power, and could be crippled still further if necessary
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: balun has two pair of terminals balanced "BAL" and unbalanced "UN"
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[21:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: allnost all transmitters have unbalanced outputs and transmission line
[21:05] <mfa298> astrobiologist: almost all transmitters are unbalanced outputs, generally anything with a coax connector will be unbalanced
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[21:06] <mfa298> most ATU's are also unbalanced output but some have a balun to add on the end if you want a balanced feed to go into ladder line.
[21:06] <astrobiologist> SP9 UOB-Tom, The qrp kit I was looking at seems to have a balanced output.
[21:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> When you are using balun with no impedance transformation (1:1) then yes, if You have balanced transmitter, and unbalanced antenna, You can use it "backwards"
[21:06] <astrobiologist> Definitely not co-ax - in fact it uses a phono connector as far as I can see
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: post a link to schematic please
[21:08] <mfa298> most of the balanced outputs I've seen on equipment has been done with a pair of banana plugs
[21:09] <astrobiologist> http://qrpme.com/docs/EZB-TTT%20EZ%20Build%20Builders%20Guide.pdf
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> mattbrejza: http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-s/oth/02/02/S02020000244501PDFE.pdf page 23, looks like HAB is more likely space station :-)
[21:09] <mattbrejza> sigh comic sans
[21:11] <mfa298> astrobiologist: that's an unbalanced antenna output.
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: this is regular unbalanced output
[21:11] <astrobiologist> what is the shield of the phono plug connected to? couldn't work it out
[21:11] <mfa298> if it was balanced neither side would be connected to ground
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[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: when you add a varicap in parallel to Xtal - You can make RTTY :-)
[21:12] <astrobiologist> SP9UOB-Tom with a small qrp transmitter, and necessitating a long wire antenna
[21:13] <astrobiologist> it is tempting to try and fly it on a balloon if possible
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: i have flown several HF experiments, RTTY, CW and domino
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> WSPR is ready and waiting :-)
[21:14] <astrobiologist> OK - if I made one of these (considering using it as my Intermediate license project), then I already have an unbalanced SWR meter, so I can tune the antenna
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: yes
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[21:16] <astrobiologist> There is even a simple ATU kit to go with it... http://qrpme.com/?p=product&id=TTH
[21:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: but remember - for long wire antena you have to use un-un (impedance transformer) and good ground (which HAB doesnt have)
[21:16] <mattbrejza> surely a dipole will be fine?
[21:16] <astrobiologist> and the reason I mention that, to bring me back to HAB, is that it mentions the counterpoise
[21:17] <astrobiologist> -is that the same as the groundplane? quite outside my knowledge again
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> center feed dipole is best choice in my humble opinion
[21:17] <astrobiologist> I thought for a moment that the antenna and the counterpoise were the two arms of a dipole
[21:17] <astrobiologist> ...but if so then why not the same length?
[21:18] <astrobiologist> So then I logged into IRC...
[21:20] <astrobiologist> mattbrejza so are you suggesting basically a dipole with an off-the-shelf HF balun wire antenna, or a homemade choke etc?
[21:23] <mattbrejza> if there is no coax you could potentally get away without the balun, but thats up for argument
[21:26] <mfa298> dipole would probably be easiest on a hab. One leg with the cord up towards the balloon and the other leg dangling from the payload.
[21:27] <mfa298> although see Darkside's previous comments about dangling long wires from balloons and the potenial for things going bad if it lands over power lines.
[21:28] <mfa298> of course for the UK you need to get it onto one of the ISM bands and I think the main issue last time that was tried is that there's a lot of noise on those bits of spectrum so the limited power doesn't do much.
[21:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> sry, wrong window
[21:29] <astrobiologist> i had actually assumed one would launch it over the sea and dunk it - I was also worried about Dave Bowen's maths that hitting aircraft scaled with the length of the tether or antenna length
[21:30] <astrobiologist> i am still confused what the outside of the phono connector in that schematic does... it is connected to chassis ground, I see that now. Does that mean the guy expects people to make a phono-to-coax cable?
[21:31] <mfa298> well phono plugs have two connectors on them normally, and they fit rg58 / urm70 pretty well.
[21:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> astrobiologist: which? The key one ?
[21:32] <mfa298> although urm70 being 75R isn't so useful for hab.
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[21:33] <mfa298> you can also get phono - bnc adapters in various shapes (I've got three of the four possible combinations)
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[21:36] <astrobiologist> See p27 of the build guide - J1 is a phono for 12v power, J2 is a phono for antenna, J3 is the keying jack
[21:37] <astrobiologist> now I'm even more confused.. so you have to supply your own morse key, plug it into the jack at J3...
[21:37] <astrobiologist> urm how do you actually rx with this? the layout is a bit different to earlier versions on the same webpage
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[21:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its a transmitter only not a receiver
[21:41] <mfa298> looks like it's probably fixed frequency as well.
[21:42] <astrobiologist> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE. Actually I sas just coming to that horrified conclusion myself, Some of the other versions are tx/rx with a manual switch between the two. I've been looking at the wrong one all evening!
[21:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[21:43] <astrobiologist> But probably the "right" one for HAB musings I suppose. Yes, it is fixed frequency but it is suggested you can swap xtals
[21:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> But HF aerials on ballons are going to be a right pain unless you put the Tx in the middle of a 20metre run of wire!
[21:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> Geoff-G8DHE im using wire in parralel to nylon rope
[21:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> and the payload is in the middle
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> but how do you balance/counterpoiser it ?
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> are right in middle yup, how long ?
[21:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> regular 1:1 balun on ferrite core
[21:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> so just a vertical dipole ?
[21:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> i was flying at 21 and 29 MHz, that was 1/2 lambda dipole feeded in the middle
[21:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Did it work better than VHF ?
[21:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> i.e. greater and reliable range ?
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[21:54] <astrobiologist> sigh, for what's it worth here is the manually switched rx/tx version http://qrpme.com/?p=product&id=35A
[21:55] <arko> um
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[21:55] <arko> is that an RCA connector for the antenna?
[21:56] <mattbrejza> im more concerned about the dodgy image scaling and choice of font
[21:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> but it still doesn't have a Rx in it just the aerial switch to J3 to be connected to another Rx ...
[21:57] <arko> mattbrejza: font-family: Comic Sans MS, verdana, calibri;
[21:57] <arko> UGGG
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.lobstercon.me/
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[22:00] <astrobiologist> Geoff-G8DHE yes I had been wondering about that too (an oblique reference to "connect your receiver here" in some of the original 1970s notes)
[22:00] <astrobiologist> if so then I'm not too worried since I have a scanner that goes down to HF already
[22:01] <astrobiologist> arko apparently yes, indeed an RCA. really quite odd really but made it into this month's RSGB without too much derision, so I looked it up
[22:05] <astrobiologist> http://qrpme.com/?p=product&id=LST
[22:06] <astrobiologist> third time lucky??? they're all in tuna cans, it's confusing!!
[22:06] <astrobiologist> I won't be able to look at tuna for months, now
[22:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> its getting late, night all
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[22:10] <mfa298> im not sure an rca connector will be much worse than a so239/pl259
[22:12] <astrobiologist> mfa298 that's what is on my SWR meter anyway, so phono to pl259, why not??
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[22:15] <astrobiologist> it can't be worse than clicking on different radio kits that only have tuna cans in common, randomly, desperately, until you find the one you thought you saw hours before
[22:15] <astrobiologist> but... I think it is sorted now. I might even build one. It will be cathartic. I might even fly it on a tethered balloon
[22:16] <astrobiologist> (no easy way to rig a long random wire antenna near my flat anyway)
[22:16] <astrobiologist> it might make an interesting hab flight one day - would you get HF propagation?
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[22:20] <mfa298> propogation tends to depend on band, time of day, time of year, point in the solar cycle and a sprinkling of black magic
[22:22] <astrobiologist> mfa298 do you need a well-tuned antenna for rx as well as tx?
[22:22] <astrobiologist> or can it "just" be a long piece of wire?
[22:23] <mfa298> a good match will help with rx as well as tx. generally if it's good for tx it will be good for rx
[22:24] <mfa298> it's all about getting the best power transfer between the two parts
[22:26] <astrobiologist> thanks mfa298, hence the manual switchover in one of those schematics I'd found... so that the receiver can work from the same (assumedly) tuned antenna as the tx
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[22:35] <astrobiologist> well I think I've confused everybody and myself enough for one night... bye all
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[22:35] <myself> I'm so confused I'm not even paying attention!
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[23:28] <DL7AD_> good night
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 7 2014