highaltitude.log.20140528

[00:05] <amell> why does a HAB tracker board need ISS prediction routines?
[00:05] <amell> and well done me, just completed applying for EIGHT jobs :)
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[00:18] <g0pai_ian> Hope that you come up trumps amell.
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[00:19] <aadamson> amell, I think the answer is *because you can* :)... think about it however, there are places where you have no ability to be heard, if you can predict where the ISS (or other aprs capable satellites) is, and reconfigure your radio for it's frequency and it's digi name, you can beacon packets through the ISS from altitude and maybe fill a gap in coverage
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[00:21] <amell> aadamson: have you been able to actually do this in practice?
[00:21] <amell> g0pai_ian: thanks!
[00:22] <aadamson> beacon through the ISS? it's done all the time actually from ground stations
[00:22] <aadamson> but I enabled some prediction routines in my code and this morning, I watched my board run while the ISS was coming into, through, and out of a pass from it's location
[00:23] <amell> i mean from a typical HAB antenna
[00:23] <aadamson> it successfully switched to the correct frequency, only beaconed on the ISS frequency when it was in view, changed the gateway name, and then switched back.
[00:23] <amell> didnt think they had enough power
[00:24] <aadamson> that's all relative, its certainly not easy and we'll see... I can run up to 100mW on my platform if wanted, but for this first test, I'll run at 10mW
[00:24] <aadamson> people do it with an HT so in theory, yes, it's entirely possible
[00:24] <amell> hmm. is airborne ISS APRS legal in the UK? ?)
[00:24] <aadamson> no, but I'm not in the US
[00:25] <aadamson> sri
[00:25] <aadamson> UK
[00:25] <aadamson> I'm in the US
[00:25] <amell> well, the ISS is airborne so presumably its not legal to communicate with it via APRS from UK airspace.
[00:25] <aadamson> airborne anything on ham frequencies in the UK isn't allowed from what I understand
[00:25] <aadamson> sure you can from the ground
[00:26] <amell> Is there a specific exemption for that.
[00:26] <aadamson> it's only if the TX is in the air, and I don't think the ISS counts.
[00:26] <amell> or does ISS not count as airborne
[00:26] <amell> ok
[00:26] <aadamson> airborne I'm sure has limited in altitude
[00:27] <aadamson> in the I'm not sure it's sovergn UK territory at 250 miles altitude :)
[00:27] <aadamson> but I'm not an expert, however, all of this would apply to satellite ham radio and I know there are UK people who works the sats
[00:27] <aadamson> legally
[00:57] <ulfr> Well, sats are more like repeaters, I guess?
[00:57] <ulfr> law regarding that is.
[00:57] <ulfr> I mean, you can't tx on air, but you can tx ground to air ...
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[10:11] <malclocke> is it possible to test a payload format in dl-fldigi without uploading it via genpayload?
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[10:22] <gonzo_> just uncheck the 'online' box in the dl pulldown
[10:23] <gonzo_> you will have to check the actual format manually
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[10:31] <fsphil> there are no flights at the moment, you can do live testing too if you want
[10:32] <fsphil> just an odd number of chase cars in the ocean
[10:33] <gonzo_> I think the only way of testing that the spacenear end works, and the payload doc matches, is live testing?
[10:33] <fsphil> yep
[10:34] <gonzo_> but the payload gen will give an example telem string, so that should make it easier to manually compare. And dl-fldidg will validate the crc for you
[10:35] <gonzo_> so can have a reasonable chance
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[10:55] <malclocke> cheers
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[11:02] <malclocke> just testing audio fsk at the moment, no working radio yet. the first couple of chars of my sentence always get missed, I suspect the timing is off somewhere and that fldigi needs a little data before it can correct for bad timing, is that a reasonable assumption?
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[11:06] <fsphil> do you have a stop bit before your first character?
[11:06] <fsphil> or does it just start with the start bit
[11:07] <malclocke> starts with a start bit
[11:07] <fsphil> that might cause it
[11:07] <fsphil> fldigi is looking for the transition from stop to start bit
[11:08] <fsphil> the normal way of getting around that is to send a few null characters (0x00)
[11:08] <fsphil> before your data
[11:09] <fsphil> or to transmit continuously
[11:13] <malclocke> oh nulls ftw :)
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[11:15] <amell> When will we see some flights again?
[11:15] <amell> anything planned.
[11:15] <gonzo_> for 8bit uart, you need 2 nulls, so I use three just to be sure
[11:15] <gonzo_> you itching to try your system?!
[11:15] <fsphil> nothing planned from here
[11:16] <malclocke> thanks fsphil, that's my first ever 'Checksum: GOOD :-)'
[11:16] Action: amell cries
[11:16] <fsphil> though I've got a batch of 100g balloons calling at me to launch them
[11:16] <gonzo_> ditto. Just need to gtet some gas
[11:16] <fsphil> yea
[11:16] <amell> Hey, launch me now!
[11:16] <fsphil> I'll try floating an optical beacon next
[11:17] <amell> laser scanning?
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> amell weren't you supposed to fly CHEAPO?
[11:17] <fsphil> just a bright LED
[11:17] <fsphil> PWM'ed with data
[11:17] <amell> LeoBodnar: yes, when the wind goes his way. Sunday 1st is a possibility, but chris is away that day.
[11:17] <gonzo_> send it this way, I have an rx for nano
[11:18] <fsphil> gonzo_: yea I'm going to wait for a day when it'll float in that general direction
[11:18] <gonzo_> though to gtet a clear day and the height it will be at by the time iut gets here
[11:18] <fsphil> at the moment everything seems to be going out to the atlantic ocean
[11:19] <fsphil> it'll be very tricky to receive it
[11:19] <fsphil> or even see it probably
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[11:23] <gonzo_> at 20+km it's going to need a good telescope anyway I recon
[11:23] <gonzo_> but would be interesting to chase and get data on the way up
[11:24] <fsphil> limiting the viewing angle will help
[11:24] <fsphil> anything much over 90 degrees would be a waste
[11:24] <gonzo_> what would you use for modulation? afsk ?
[11:24] <fsphil> yea
[11:25] <gonzo_> use small packets, as the qsb will be 'orrible
[11:25] <fsphil> just square wave fsk
[11:25] <amell> scanning laser, modulated.
[11:25] <fsphil> not going to bother filtering
[11:25] <gonzo_> you would at least be able to hear it nicely
[11:25] <gonzo_> if you get some chrs decoded, bonus
[11:26] <amell> ideally without blinding transatlantic pilots.
[11:26] <gonzo_> it would just be a navigation light
[11:29] <fsphil> to the eye it would just be a green light, not too bright
[11:30] <fsphil> well this one will be green anyway
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[11:41] <gonzo_> any reason for green?
[11:41] <fsphil> it's what I have :)
[11:42] <fsphil> I've also a few bright IR LEDs
[11:42] <fsphil> but they'd be impossible to aim at
[11:44] <amell> lasers wont go over the horizon obviously.
[11:45] <fsphil> farnell have a 25W white LED
[11:48] <gonzo_> I have some 20W ones, but they are a cluster of 1W chips
[11:49] <gonzo_> for focused beam comms you need an individual chip. Largets I have is 3w
[11:49] <fsphil> this green one is 3W
[11:49] <fsphil> it'll do for a test
[11:50] <fsphil> might need too many batteries for a 100g anyway
[11:50] <gonzo_> very short pulses would be visible and keep the consumption down (and heat diss)
[11:50] <fsphil> yea, have it blink every few seconds - then send data once a minute
[11:51] <fsphil> or data every 10 seconds
[11:51] <fsphil> more useful to test with
[11:51] <gonzo_> an rf beacon too?
[11:52] <gonzo_> otherwise no-one outside the launch are will have a chance
[11:52] <fsphil> I think it would need it
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[12:25] <aadamson> Upu, UpuWork - pm (to upuwork) - thanks Anthony figured I'd share back
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[13:09] <malgar> hi
[13:09] <malgar> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/b5Vs8lz8zPY
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[13:40] <Guest48804> Hi, are you still there Malgar
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[13:53] <Darkside> /win 23
[14:07] <mfa298> reading scrollback are we might need to get someone working on light <-> rtty <-> ukhasnet bridges to fly so we can have different types of payloads interacting.
[14:09] <fsphil> the optical link need not be rtty
[14:09] <mfa298> I was thinking bridge nodes that could communicate between all three.
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[14:10] <mfa298> athough getting that to work automatically and fit on a balloon could be an interesting challenge (espcially for the optical parts)
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Incredible process on the SpaceX landing vid
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> http://spacexlanding.wikispaces.com/file/view/frames_189_199.gif/510719684/420x288/frames_189_199.gif
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[14:16] <SpeedEvil> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34597.msg1200407#msg1200407
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[15:57] <Will_2E0PGP> CQ CQ CQ QST, M6KIK QRT, NEW CS 2E0PGP, QRV 73 WILL
[15:57] <UpuWork> congrats and keep it on topic :)
[15:59] <Will_2E0PGP> UpuWork, thanks. I was joking with the whole caps and Q codes.
[15:59] <Will_2E0PGP> Wait is amateur radio not on topic?
[16:00] <adamgreig> Will_2E0PGP: congrats! now for the M0 ;)
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[16:08] Nick change: Will_2E0PGP -> Willdude123
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[16:14] <chrisstubbs> Willdude123, I think he'd had enough of IRC
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[16:15] <mattbrejza> any reason for PGP Willdude123 ?
[16:16] <Willdude123> mattbrejza, I thought it was Pretty Good :P
[16:17] <mattbrejza> ah right
[16:18] <fsphil> VIM was taken. :muhahaha
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[17:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:17] <DL7AD> hi
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[17:26] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[17:43] <mikestir> fsphil: did you see the article on free-space optical comms in this month's radcom?
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[17:52] <fsphil> mikestir: haven't opened it yet
[17:52] <fsphil> any good?
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[19:12] <Spectre> evening gents
[19:13] <fsphil> ahoy
[19:13] <craag> evening to you sir
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:53] <gb73d> watching nasa tv hd now
[19:55] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[19:58] <amell> daveake: what are you launching on 21st June?
[19:59] <amell> sorry wrong dave
[19:59] <amell> db_g6gzh: what are you launching on 21st june?
[20:04] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
[20:06] Action: daveake stands down :)
[20:07] <jededu> We are launching on thr 4th hopefully
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[20:19] <DL7AD> good evening
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[20:34] <db_g6gzh> amell: not me, another dave (how many can there be?)
[20:39] <amell> jededu: where from?
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[20:42] <jededu> UK
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[21:13] <amell> jedehu: where in UK?
[21:14] <jededu> Birmingaham where you from amell
[21:15] <amell> Elsworth
[21:21] Willmod (5ead794d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.173.121.77) joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] <Willmod> Evening. I'm sending a payload up on Friday at 1pm thats quite heavy. 2.5kg. Ive got a neck loft needed of 4kg. Is that typical? Ive liefted 4kg and it seems like a lot for a balloon. Im using a Hwoyee 1200. Anyone there that has neck lift experience?
[21:26] <Willmod> Evening. I'm sending a payload up on Friday at 1pm thats quite heavy. 2.5kg. Ive got a neck lift needed of 4kg. Is that typical? Ive liefted 4kg and it seems like a lot for a balloon. Im using a Hwoyee 1200. Anyone there that has neck lift experience?
[21:27] <Upu> thats pretty heavy
[21:28] <Upu> I'd suggest 4.6kg of neck lift to keep the ascent rate up
[21:28] <Willmod> Yes, its got quite a lot of equipment on it. 5ft. Parachute. Upu did you send one up today?
[21:28] <SIbot> In real units: 5 ft = 1.52 m
[21:28] <Upu> no
[21:28] <Upu> where are you launching from ?
[21:28] <Willmod> Ok. Craag mentioned you might be.
[21:29] <Upu> 4kg of neck lift will be ok
[21:29] <Upu> wear gloves
[21:29] <Willmod> From Marchington in staffordshire. I have submitted a payload doc and flight docs
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[21:29] <craag> Hi Willmod!
[21:29] <Willmod> THanks. Will do.
[21:29] <Upu> whats the payload name ?
[21:29] <amell> where are you expecting to land?
[21:29] <Willmod> Hi Craag! One day to go...
[21:29] <Upu> Moody1 ?
[21:29] <Willmod> Moody1 with a callsign MOD1 or Mod2
[21:30] <Willmod> Yep, thats the one
[21:30] <Upu> let me know when you're happy with flight doc and I'll approve it
[21:30] <Willmod> Should be drifting west towards wales
[21:30] <Upu> got hand warmers in there ?
[21:30] <Willmod> No hand warmers, but i have them in my flight gear. Recommended?
[21:31] <Upu> Recommended you use them for keeping your hands warm yes
[21:31] <amell> 2.5kg is a lot to land on someones head.
[21:31] <Upu> launching them in the payload - no :)
[21:31] <Willmod> I see. Thought might need to keep the trackers warm in the cold :-)
[21:32] <Upu> Thats very heavy but your chute is the correct size
[21:32] <Upu> do a prediction on the morning
[21:32] <Upu> if you have any doubts about landing area don't launch
[21:33] <Willmod> The payload is well padded. Have tried to get insurance but was impossible. Upu, I filled out the flight docs as best as possible. If you could approve, would be great.
[21:33] <Upu> 1200g Hwoyee should be good for 30km
[21:33] Action: amell straps his crash helmet on.
[21:33] <Upu> however it may go over or under +/- 5km so predict for this scenario as well
[21:33] <Upu> make sure you put enough gas it
[21:33] <Upu> "it will be right"
[21:34] <Upu> will result in it going up too slowly
[21:34] <Upu> and going way further than you expect
[21:34] <Willmod> OK. Will hold off. I was looking to do an hourly but couldn't see where to submit. :-) Amell.
[21:34] <Upu> you need 5128L of gas
[21:35] <Upu> which is more than a T Cylinder of He so hope you have a large cylinder
[21:35] <Upu> the flight doc for Moody1 only has one payload in it
[21:35] <Willmod> Ive got 4 litre water bottles that will use as a measure of lift. When the balloon balances them, i assume ready for launch. Ive got an L cylinder so should be OK
[21:35] <Upu> payload is MOD2
[21:35] <Willmod> Yes, Ive got a Spot satellite tracker as backup.
[21:36] <Upu> do you want to add MOD1 to the flight doc just in case you use it ?
[21:37] <Willmod> Yes please. Does this need to be done now?, 434.075MHz is MOD1 434.650MHz is MOD2
[21:37] <Upu> if you go back to the flight doc
[21:38] <Upu> you can edit existing
[21:38] <Upu> and add the second payload to it
[21:38] <amell> btw, does a pawan 100g with everything contained within 2m sphere need ATC clearance?
[21:38] <craag> amell: nope
[21:38] <Upu> hmm
[21:38] <amell> thx, just checking
[21:38] <Upu> dubious
[21:38] <craag> as long as the payload AND balloon are within 2m
[21:38] <amell> yes. that is my intention.
[21:38] <Upu> however Steve thinks they need a NOTAM
[21:38] <craag> Or: in my opinion, it doesn't
[21:38] <Upu> as they are > 2m at burst
[21:39] <amell> spec says they burst at 1.6m
[21:39] <craag> amell: No, it's >=1.6m
[21:39] <Upu> way over :)
[21:39] <amell> hmm
[21:39] Action: amell missed the >
[21:40] <amell> that would go through a jet engine without anybody noticing anyway
[21:42] <Upu> sounds like you have everything planned anyway Willmod
[21:42] <Upu> just ping my name when you're ready for the doc to be approved
[21:42] <craag> Trackers working better Willmod ?
[21:44] <Willmod> Upu - thanks. Yes, have done loads of prep. Ive amended the payload to include both. How do i send a private red message? Thanks Craag, yes, better. Still awaiting a Yagi delivery for tomorrow - cutting it a bit fine.
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[21:45] <Upu> you need to add the second payload to the flight doc
[21:45] <Upu> still only showing one payload
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[21:48] <Willmod> Should be showing 2 now...
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[21:51] <Upu> got it and approved
[21:51] <Upu> remember to post to the list so you get some listeners
[21:51] <Upu> good luck!
[21:52] <Willmod> Super. Thanks! Sorry, im still a noob. The list - is that the googlegroup? Might there be any listeners at 1pm on a friday?
[21:52] <Upu> haha
[21:52] <Upu> "yes"
[21:52] <amell> yes. of course
[21:53] <craag> I think you'll still get a few!
[21:53] <amell> it sounds like it will be out of range for me anyway.
[21:53] <Upu> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[21:54] <Willmod> Thanks. I am using a tracker that Mark Ireland knocked up. I did one launch last September and it was pretty strong signal
[21:55] <Upu> yeah its a good tracker that one
[21:56] <Willmod> The satellite tracker will be visible on this public page share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0Ka2ephx2fB3vrVsnlR79Lna6kkkNQ39j
[21:56] <Upu> you'll get more from spacenear.us
[21:56] <Upu> got a radio to upload from the launch site ?
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[21:57] <Willmod> Yes, i can do. I was going to start tuning in on the descent but should track it on the way up
[21:58] <Upu> oh definetly upload from the launch site
[21:58] <Upu> you'll know its working
[21:58] <Upu> and the live prediction will kick in
[21:58] <Upu> also people know when to start listening
[21:58] <Upu> SPOT is slow
[21:58] <craag> And everyone can see when it's launched, and will know to start tracking
[21:58] <Willmod> OK, is that the highlighter lines on spacenear?
[21:58] <Upu> when a balloon is on the map it will live predict where its going to land
[22:00] <Willmod> Great. Will do so in that case. THe prediction is edging further towards teh south as we approach the launch. CAA has instructed not to launch if winds are south so fingers crossed
[22:01] <amell> do you know what the problem with south is?
[22:02] <Willmod> Yes, it start to veer towards east midlands airport
[22:02] <Willmod> Yes, it starts to veer towards east midlands airport
[22:03] <amell> if its south tomorrow, whens your next launch window
[22:04] <Willmod> Haven't anything planned. Perhaps the following weekend
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[22:07] <Willmod> Its Friday, rather than tommorow. 1pm
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[22:08] <amell> Does anyone know where Steve lives, town?
[22:08] <amell> debating whether to just pick stuff up or get it posted.
[22:14] <mikestir> what's with all the damp chase cars?
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[22:20] <craag> Good email Willmod, good luck for Friday!
[22:20] <craag> I might be listening on the websdr
[22:20] <Willmod> Thanks Craag. Hope to get a few bites!
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[22:21] <SpeedEvil> http://hackaday.com/2014/05/27/an-audio-based-usb-oscilloscope-and-signal-generator-for-20/#comment-1521018
[22:25] <Willdude123> craag, at the VHF FD, does everyone stay for the full 24 hours?
[22:25] <craag> Willdude123: No, some of us from soton do, but a lot of people jsut drop in for an hour or so.
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[22:27] <Willdude123> craag, do you permanently operate or do you stop overnight?
[22:28] <craag> Willdude123: In the categories we enter, 2m is run permanently, 6m only for the saturday evening and 70cm is paused overnight.
[22:29] <craag> So from 2am - 5am there's just one or two of us awake running 2m.
[22:29] <Willdude123> craag, I'll see if I can get hold of Noel closer to the time such that we can sort out when I can operate
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[22:29] <Willdude123> I mean, I'm quite happy to stay for as long as I'm welcome
[22:29] <craag> Willdude123: Just turn up, really not a problem.
[22:30] <Willdude123> Cool.
[22:30] <Willdude123> Damn, QRZ.com doesn't let me change my call
[22:31] <craag> Willdude123: You add a vanity callsign for your new call.
[22:32] <Willdude123> Oh OK
[22:33] <Willdude123> craag, but can I change it to that?
[22:34] <craag> Don't know the details - I only have one callsign myself :)
[22:36] <craag> Also best time for operating on field day woudl be between 4pm Saturday and 1pm Sunday - first hours are a bit of a bunfight and last are always full of duplicates
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[00:00] --- Thu May 29 2014