highaltitude.log.20140527

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[07:46] <DL7AD> morning
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[08:06] <en4rab> morning
[08:07] <DL7AD> hi en4rab
[08:09] <en4rab> has anyone here done anything to build an automatic tracking station for baloons? I was wondering if maybe someone had build a raspberry pi/rtl-sdr type device i could copy to make a tracking station I could put in the loft and leave running
[08:11] <mfa298> someone started looking at making something that could track a hab for steerable yagi's although I think the code was a bit beyond his skill level
[08:11] <mfa298> there is habrotate which works with more standard rotator controllers.
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[08:12] <mfa298> in terms of decoding you may need something more powerful than a Pi - although it can be used to stream the raw data from an rtlsdr
[08:12] <mfa298> I should be back in around 40 mins if you want to ask questions then (or someone else can potentially take over)
[08:12] <en4rab> thankyou
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> he was bolloxed and ridiculed and disappeared shortly after
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> which was the best outcome for everyone including himself
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> it should be really an integration project rather than "build it from scratch" project
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[08:17] <LeoBodnar> the guy started it from designing a MOSFET driver
[08:18] <LeoBodnar> where he immediately got stuck
[08:19] <en4rab> I was just curious if i had missed something, since im normally asleep during the day I wondered if anyone had build a receiver that would automatically receive baloon telemetry if it was in range
[08:22] <fsphil> yea they don't always stay down
[08:22] <fsphil> er
[08:22] <fsphil> ignore me
[08:23] <GW8RAK> en4rab, the problem is that there is normally some frequency drift, so you would need a receiver which can scan for signals within the possible range.
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[08:30] <ulfr> mornin'
[08:38] <DL7AD> hi ulfr
[08:39] <ulfr> hi DL7AD
[08:40] <ulfr> how's it goin'?
[08:41] <DL7AD> ulfr: im currently at university having mathematics ;)
[08:53] <mfa298> en4rab: there is the java application from the android modem and tracker app which will track 50/300 baud rtty within the audio pass band
[08:54] <mfa298> and that will normally lock onto a rtty signal within that pass band, but theres no complete solution yet.
[08:56] <mfa298> various people have started various parts that could make up a complete solution but time tends to be the limiting factor
[08:56] <en4rab> It was mostly just me being lazy and wondering if i could build a station i could chuck in the loft and forget about
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[09:11] <G4MYS-Andy> Good Morning one and all!
[09:12] <G8APZ> Hi Andy
[09:13] <G8APZ> another wet day here
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[09:29] <g8fjg_ron> any ideas about signal on 434.600 sounds like sstv?
[09:31] <fsphil> tried decoding it?
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[09:32] <fsphil> there was a satellite launched recently that is sending out sstv images
[09:32] <g8fjg_ron> being new to this, dont know how ! doesn't seem to fit ..too wide
[09:33] <fsphil> it's on 437.600 anyway
[09:33] <g8fjg_ron> unless its in a strange orbit,,,,,,, no doppler
[09:36] <fsphil> nothing on SUWS's websdr
[09:36] <fsphil> it's probably quite near you
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[09:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Isn't there a flight due today on 434.6 by Chris H. ? But it didn't sound well prepared by the message on the list!!
[09:42] <G8APZ> WSMETEOR from Swanbourne Bucks was due to launch at 11am - 434.6mhz SSB - RTTY 50 7 N2
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[09:43] <G8APZ> One of the SPOT trackers is active.
[09:43] <g8fjg_ron> we if this signal stays I wont hear it
[09:44] <gonzo_> Ah, I giot my dates mixed up, thought that was yuesterday
[09:46] <G8APZ> g8fjg_ron if you are in Bucks, you must be close to it.. try USB on radio, and use FLdigi on RTTY with the above settings....
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[09:46] <g8fjg_ron> Im jo01cm east of london, almost got colour bars
[09:47] <g8fjg_ron> its nearly 20khz wide
[09:48] <G8APZ> OK - doesn't sound right for a 10mW TX on RTTY!!!!
[09:49] <G8APZ> It must be something else
[09:50] <G8APZ> It wouldn't reach Rainham from Bucks whilst on the ground
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[09:54] <G8APZ> its SPOT says it is in the car park behind "The Betsey Wynne" pub
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[10:18] <craag> Is this the first time Chris has used radio tracking?
[10:18] <craag> Sounds a bit like he doesn't want anything to do with it from the emails
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[10:21] <G8APZ> craag no idea!
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[10:22] <G8APZ> the four SPOT fixes say it is still in the car park
[10:22] <craag> He does seem to like launching from pubs
[10:22] <craag> I noticed his 'Balloon Fiesta' was meant to be this last weekend
[10:23] <craag> Postponed due to weather til next week
[10:25] <G8APZ> craag I hadn't noticed that about pubs!
[10:25] <daveake> I try to land near them
[10:26] <craag> daveake: So you're less likely to get lost trying to find them? ;)
[10:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Pubs don't mormally have trackers fitted so can be difficult to find ;-)
[10:27] <craag> We had a bit of fun with a convoy from the landing site to the pub, via a few u-turns!
[10:28] <craag> Nobody was quite sure who was following who
[10:29] <craag> I would hope it's a feature on Dave's new tracking computer
[10:30] <gonzo_> pubs.... that's the first thing he's done right then
[10:30] <daveake> craag Recently, so I can forget what happened :/
[10:30] <mfa298> ideally a tracker locating nearest pubs will also know if they provide good or not as well.
[10:30] <daveake> food idea
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[10:30] <mfa298> or at least know where the nearest chippy is if no food at the pub
[10:31] <gonzo_> irc has excenllent chippy navigation
[10:31] <gonzo_> including review pasring and car parking recomendation, if I rememver
[10:32] <daveake> Ah yes I've used that feature a couple of times
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[10:36] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE Ask UpuWork about finding a pub after a chase :p
[10:41] <gonzo_> just keep the tracker running in the car, and everyoine can use snus to find it
[10:41] <gonzo_> (need a new icon for the pub though)
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Pewrhaps leave recovered trackers in the Pub with a review ?
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> being broadcast
[10:42] <ulfr> DL7AD: Nice, I was at a meeting at the Reykjavik university.
[10:43] <ulfr> No mathemetics involved this time
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[10:54] <UpuWork> hah
[10:57] <fsphil> forget ukhasnet, we need ukpubnet!
[10:57] <fsphil> or every pub needs a ukhasnet node, broadcasting location and services offered
[10:57] <nats`> fsphil we call that Four square and twitter
[10:57] <nats`> :p
[10:58] <Willdude123> You could have toilet occupancy broadcast too
[10:58] <fsphil> not that kind of service Willdude123
[10:58] <Willdude123> Have little sensors on the latches
[10:59] <mfa298> unfortunately the P flag in ukhasnet has already been taken by pressure. B (eer) is available though ...
[11:01] <DL7AD> ulfr: :)
[11:01] <fsphil> this is why fixed-formats are bad :)
[11:03] <gonzo_> B=bacon
[11:03] <fsphil> perfect
[11:03] <gonzo_> A for ale?
[11:05] <gonzo_> soulds like starting a nursary school alphabet
[11:06] <fsphil> homer simpson style
[11:06] <mattbrejza> spot still in the carpark as of 6min ago
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[11:07] <ulfr> DL7AD: did you see 'my' "rocket" project earlier this month?
[11:07] <ulfr> :P
[11:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> they haven't found the bar yet to order the beer ?
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[11:09] <G8APZ> I expect they thought the fizz tap CO2 cylinder had helium in it!
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[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> I see there problem http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/2014_Flights/index.php?ind=1
[11:15] <gonzo_> so the balloon is rolling around the carpark, and the cola is floating off?
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> the balloon is trapped under the awning
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[11:22] <db_g6gzh> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/2014_Flights/index.php?ind=1
[11:23] <daveake> "Ready for adventure"
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[11:30] <LeoBodnar> adventure already started yesterday
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> boldly marching into unknown
[11:31] <gonzo_> for a fee
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[11:41] <craag> suws websdr dynamic dns failed
[11:41] <craag> fixed now, just waiting for dns to propagate
[11:42] <mattbrejza> it seems CH is making full use of ISH, so should be ready in time? :P
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[11:45] <mattbrejza> oh it seems its off
[11:52] <craag> mattbrejza: You got it on rtty?
[11:52] <mattbrejza> nope cant see it
[11:52] <mattbrejza> spot has suddenly jumped down the road
[11:52] <craag> nothing on the websdr either, 434.600 right?
[11:53] <craag> faint lines...
[11:53] <craag> maybe not
[11:54] <mattbrejza> its probably at 3-4km by now
[11:54] <mattbrejza> whats the radio horizon for that?
[11:54] <craag> Looks like rtty isn't running then :/
[11:55] <craag> I should get it at about 500m from there tbh
[11:55] <mattbrejza> i can see the antenna on this thing being less than optimal
[11:55] <mattbrejza> hope he took photos for the 'oh the radio tracker didnt seem to work' email
[11:57] <craag> at 3km: 0 degree range is 195km
[11:57] <craag> 5 degree is 33km
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[11:58] <g8fjg_ron> carrier @ 434.597
[11:58] <daveake> lol @ SNUS
[11:58] <craag> g8fjg_ron: nothing here
[11:58] <UpuWork> is someone having a laugh :)
[11:59] <mattbrejza> i was thinking i could see it at .597 but wayyy to weak to decode
[11:59] <mattbrejza> who was it who had the silly big yagi ontop of a massive tower?
[12:00] <UpuWork> I have a big silly one on my house
[12:00] <craag> Nah it's small by ham standards UpuWork
[12:00] <UpuWork> :(
[12:00] <Darkside> tiny
[12:00] <UpuWork> all right
[12:00] <Darkside> UpuWork: go look up EME stations
[12:01] <UpuWork> biggest one that would fit
[12:01] <craag> I've used a 21 ele for hab tracking :)
[12:01] <UpuWork> I'm only 3 behind
[12:01] <Darkside> some guy in NSW used a dish
[12:01] <Darkside> to track horus 16
[12:01] <Darkside> dish wasnt movable though, was dsignd for 70cm SSB work
[12:02] <daveake> UpuWork Your HAB antennae need to be approved by Mrs Upu; this is where most hams have an advantage
[12:02] <UpuWork> indeed
[12:04] <craag> spot doesn't report altitude??
[12:04] <daveake> so, nobody seeing a signal from this flight?
[12:04] <craag> daveake: Nothing here on the websdr
[12:04] <daveake> ok
[12:05] <mattbrejza> g8fjg_ron: any modulation on this carrier?
[12:05] <daveake> What's the betting ... 1) Didn't fly it, 2) No aerial, 3) RP-SMA
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[12:05] <craag> RP-SMA sounds a bit too technical
[12:05] <daveake> ofc you'd have to be stupid to do (3)
[12:05] Action: daveake hides
[12:05] <mattbrejza> 4) sma pigtail without modification
[12:06] <mikestir-work> at least you can solve (3) with a paperclip (if you notice in time)
[12:06] <daveake> as in, still shielded?
[12:06] <mattbrejza> yea
[12:06] <daveake> Yes that's a possibility
[12:06] <craag> The habduino instructions are nice and clear about how to make the antenna, so I'd hope he's done that.
[12:06] <daveake> It's the wau you tell 'em
[12:06] <craag> I bet they couldn't get their rx to work so didn't fly it.
[12:07] <mattbrejza> well it sounded like he was going to fly it even though he couldnt test it
[12:07] <daveake> it did
[12:07] <daveake> maybe I put him off
[12:09] <craag> Has he seen a radio tracker in use before?
[12:09] <mattbrejza> there must have been a few knocking around at ukhas12
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[12:09] <craag> oh he was there?
[12:10] <craag> I might have met him then.. can't remember.
[12:11] <daveake> yes with kid
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> well at least he has two spot Rx onboard, perhaps one is inverted !
[12:11] <daveake> and he was at 13 where he did the foundation
[12:11] <craag> he did.... oh....
[12:12] <daveake> erm did he not sure
[12:12] <daveake> I may be confused
[12:12] <G8APZ> I only have a sort of "jammer" very fast ticking sound on 434.601
[12:13] <craag> daveake: Nope he didn't
[12:13] <daveake> No you'[re right
[12:13] <mattbrejza> he started putting his callsign on emails in feb13
[12:13] <daveake> Just checked
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> nothing here in Silverstone
[12:14] <craag> phew... I was going to say, I don't remember anyone being quite *that* clueless
[12:14] <daveake> haha
[12:17] <craag> Nothing across any of the band in basingstoke
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[12:21] <daveake> shame there's no altitude from the spot
[12:22] <G8APZ> pretty useless except for recovery
[12:22] <daveake> I'd feel really uncomfortable not knowing how the flight is doing, just having to wait till it lands in the hope that it'll work
[12:23] <mattbrejza> probably 12km if 5m/s for 40min
[12:23] <mattbrejza> its matching the prediction pretty well
[12:23] <mattbrejza> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=4cc0a65e186c0e34e8f13176046318517bc08dfd
[12:23] <daveake> 2 spots on this flight?
[12:24] <mattbrejza> seems so
[12:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> 357 and Silverfox3 appear to be the names
[12:24] <daveake> yeah
[12:25] <daveake> Expensive payload
[12:25] <daveake> Must be to warrant 2 of these
[12:25] <fsphil> our and a half of silence, then a report saying your payload is in the sea
[12:25] <fsphil> hour*
[12:25] <G8APZ> Oh well.... this is like watching paint dry with no radio to track! I'll switch off now.
[12:25] <fsphil> *true story
[12:26] <g8fjg_ron> sorry got called away...just ticking
[12:27] <G8APZ> yes... a ticking sound about 20Khz wide
[12:27] <G8APZ> reminds me of the Woodpecker!
[12:27] <G8APZ> or Syledis... both bloody nuisances!
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[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Nothing visible here, but I don't think Leo was getting anything either!
[12:28] <luke_> Guys.... just be wary, someone is always friends with someone your Dissing on here!...
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[12:30] <g8fjg_ron> the 20khz wide signal is different to this carrier...its very narrow but on top of the wide signal
[12:30] <jonsowman> don't worry luke_, he is well aware of the general community opinion that he's doing not something which is generally considered to be a Good Idea
[12:31] <UpuWork> you know Chris luke_ ?
[12:31] <daveake> ^ feel free to move "not" around in that sentence till it works :)
[12:31] <jonsowman> lol
[12:31] <jonsowman> sorry
[12:31] <jonsowman> typing and eating at the same time
[12:32] <daveake> np </pedant>
[12:32] <UpuWork> would be nice to know if he launched the radio tracker at all
[12:32] <UpuWork> so people on here aren't sat round wasting their time
[12:32] <daveake> ah you did well then :)
[12:32] <daveake> indeed UpuWork
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[12:43] <daveake> "357" seems to be doing better than "silverfox3"
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[12:48] <gonzo_> just proves that spot is so much better then radio
[12:50] <gonzo_> </sarcasm>
[12:50] <craag> That was a very dangerous 2 minutes for you in the middle there gonzo_ ..
[12:51] <gonzo_> I was just seeing what would happen
[12:51] <gonzo_> never return once the touch paper is lit
[12:52] <gonzo_> not flying a non working radio is probably bettre then flying it though. one less thing to lose
[12:56] <mattbrejza> 20km id say
[12:59] <gonzo_> looks like one of the trackets has given up
[12:59] <gonzo_> unless it's >18km
[12:59] <mattbrejza> should be by now
[13:01] <gonzo_> 357 is still reporting
[13:02] <mattbrejza> that change in the wind is at 20km so it looks perhaps this spot is a bit better than older ones
[13:02] <mattbrejza> or newer ones
[13:03] <daveake> yeah it'd be interesting to know if the 2 are different models
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[13:20] <UpuWork> glad I wasted my electricity rotating my antenna
[13:22] <nats`> UpuWork what a shame you don't use a superunity generator for that ?
[13:22] <mattbrejza> seems like it might have burst
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[13:24] <Darkside> " Unfortunately the tracker got left behind"
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[13:25] <Darkside> righto then
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[13:41] <Rebounder> what's the output power of a spot?
[13:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> Rebounder: 400mW apparently: http://www.gpscity.com/questions?qid=32919
[13:46] <en4rab> +18dBm output Power @ 100 bps with FEC Error Detection/Correction
[13:46] <fsphil> should be able to decode that on the ground
[13:47] <fsphil> if anyone ever wrote a decoder. imagine that wouldn't be trivial
[13:47] <en4rab> http://www.sensservice.com/pdfs/stx2.pdf
[13:48] <jonsowman> "make SENS of your data"
[13:48] <jonsowman> sigh
[13:48] <fsphil> hehe
[13:49] <fsphil> I bet someone was quite proud of themselves for coming up with that :)
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[13:49] <gonzo_> or charged them a mint for it
[13:51] <en4rab> that was just the first site i found with actual figures for the STX2 module, unlike globalstars website that just has sales fluff
[13:51] <mattbrejza> i think its probably down now
[13:52] <daveake> so should get an update soon
[13:53] <daveake> do these things generally start reporting again on the way down?
[13:53] <Rebounder> Steve_G0TDJ: ah,
[13:53] <daveake> should start below 18km I guess
[13:54] <Steve_G0TDJ> Rebounder: Saw the same figure on a dfferent site too
[13:54] <mattbrejza> the 357 one's latest update i think is on the ground
[13:54] <daveake> ok cool
[13:55] <mattbrejza> i think burst is then between 13 and 14
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[14:05] <amell> whats the point of launching habs with just spot trackers?
[14:06] <amell> what nobody piped SPOT into SNUS?
[14:06] <amell> :)
[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> To possibly retrieve them once landed ?
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No idea what is in the payload so ....
[14:07] <amell> with a 50% chance of getting a landing fix. heads or tails?
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> With two SPOTS one up and one down maybe a better chance ;-)
[14:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> perhaps you really need s Spots one on each face ...
[14:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> s = 6
[14:08] <amell> oh, apparently he left the tracker behind.
[14:09] <fsphil> nearly as bad as me leaving the payload behind
[14:09] <amell> did anyone actually call him on his mobile and speak to him?
[14:09] <amell> ask him what the point is?
[14:10] <amell> I need something to listen to. Got my new antenna all rigged, with masthead habamp
[14:11] <amell> in particular, i have a theory that i should be able to hear payloads on the ground at elsworth. It would be nice to prove this.
[14:11] <mfa298> amell: Chris usually flies spot trackers or gsm trackers he's not new to HAB just new to our way of doing it.
[14:15] <chrisstubbs> amell, If only you had a payload you could use for things like that ;)
[14:15] <amell> chrisstubbs: theres a point. I could put some batteries in it. hoping to see steve this weekend for some pawan 100g.
[14:16] <chrisstubbs> use dl-fldigi in "offline"mode if your just playing about
[14:16] <chrisstubbs> avoids confusion
[14:17] <amell> yup
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[14:18] <amell> btw how much gas does a 100g need - how many fills will one of those balloon gas tanks give
[14:19] <craag> amell: Depends on your payload weight
[14:19] <amell> 40g i think someone said it was
[14:19] <amell> not weighed it yet
[14:20] <craag> The disposable cylinders from balloonhelium are 0.25/0.35m3
[14:20] <craag> The BOC ones are 0.33m3
[14:20] <craag> Have a play with the calculator and see what works :)
[14:21] <amell> is there a calculator somewhere?
[14:21] <craag> http://habhub.org/calc/
[14:22] <chrisstubbs> a "disposable 50" off amazon is 0.42m3
[14:22] <chrisstubbs> I used an entire one of those first time I launched it amell and it got about 3.5m/s ascent
[14:23] <gonzo_> my rough cacs (please correct me if wrong) 0.1m^3 gives just over 100g of lift
[14:23] <gonzo_> (H2 that is)
[14:24] <craag> yep
[14:24] <gonzo_> balloon gas is not pure He so prob needs a bit more
[14:25] <daveake> istr getting about 5 balloon fills from the "50" cylinder
[14:25] <gonzo_> I took the chart of balloon data from the ukhas and tryed to calc the data from first principals. Got suprisingkly close
[14:25] <amell> Burst Altitude:17155 mAscent Rate:3.22 m/sTime to Burst:89 minNeck Lift:106 gVolume:0.20 m3200 L7.1 ft3
[14:25] <SIbot> In real units: 1 ft = 0.30 m
[14:26] <amell> 17km and 3m/s a reasonable target?
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[14:28] <gonzo_> looch like he's had a tree landing
[14:29] <craag> amell: Maybe put in a bit more gas, 3m/s is about the area where there's a remote chance of float
[14:29] <craag> Although has that actually happened with a pawan?
[14:31] <amell> I suspect chrisstubbs would prefer that this balloon did not float
[14:32] <chrisstubbs> I honestly dont mind :)
[14:32] <chrisstubbs> I dont think the battery in that tracker would last long enough to make it worthwhile
[14:32] <chrisstubbs> 20 hours or so
[14:33] <amell> true
[14:38] <mattbrejza> seems one of the spots is less than forthcoming with new positions
[14:39] <daveake> hoho - SNUS
[14:40] <amell> poor car
[14:40] <daveake> Might switch my tracker on in the car shortly, for the drive home
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> rusting well
[14:40] <daveake> It'll be the only car on the map that's on land
[14:40] <amell> wheres wally?
[14:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/1525707_10151815663832051_1307882887_n.png
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[14:51] <amell> chrisstubbs: 1st june afternoon is predicting to land between chelmsford and colchester.
[14:52] <chrisstubbs> The one day im away :P
[14:52] <amell> ok. will keep looking
[14:52] <chrisstubbs> in the morning at least
[14:53] <amell> 4pm sunday launch ?
[14:53] <mfa298> going for tracker ping pong then ?
[14:54] <amell> yes, hopefully
[14:54] <chrisstubbs> Ill try and figure out my plans for sunday tomorrow. Im doing a charity collection at stanstead from 5am :P
[14:54] <amell> thats one place you dont want to collect a hab :)
[14:54] <chrisstubbs> heh
[14:55] <mfa298> are you allowed to "persaude" people to part with cash suggesting someone will relase a balloon that delays their flights if you don't get enough
[14:56] <mfa298> although the James May topgear balloon version might take some beating
[14:56] <chrisstubbs> aha I like it :)
[14:57] <amell> For best results, fill the Balloons 1-2 hours before your event. - any idea why they state that?
[14:58] <amell> yes, i do realise this is relating to party balloons not HABs :)
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[15:00] <chrisstubbs> probably so you dont fill them the week before
[15:01] <chrisstubbs> and come back to empty balloons sitting on the floor
[15:01] <amell> ah yes
[15:04] <chrisstubbs> agh im having no luck trying to find the uart on my new camera
[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> which camera is it ?
[15:09] <chrisstubbs> canon sx230
[15:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?11357-Scripting-Canon-SX230-for-Aerial-Surveys-with-CHDK-and-Arduino
[15:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Step 3 suggests its watching the USB port in a simple serial mode ...
[15:13] <chrisstubbs> thats just for external remotes and things on the usb port
[15:13] <chrisstubbs> most canons actually have test points on the pcb for the uart with an "event shell" on it
[15:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> which UART are you trying to get at then ?
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[15:15] <chrisstubbs> the one with the event shell
[15:15] <chrisstubbs> The one on the USB port I dont think is a full on uart
[15:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> may well not be as its also looking at pulse width
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[15:19] <chrisstubbs> returns the pulse width of the most recent USB power activation and clears that value.
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> just looks at the pulse on the +5v line by the looks of it
[15:20] <chrisstubbs> interesting though
[15:28] <aadamson> fyi, I found the full qualatex balloon catalog online this is the 2014 edition from what I can tell - reference material when looking for larger, or different pico balloons - http://issuu.com/pioneer1/docs/2014_qualatex_everyday_catalog_onli?e=4272177/6856101
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[15:59] <mattbrejza> so spot is still giving positions, are they having problems finding it i wonder
[16:01] <fsphil> different positions from 10 and 21 minutes ago
[16:01] <fsphil> huge bunch from that tree line, looks like they got it and had it sitting on that lane for a while
[16:02] <mattbrejza> if it was at that bunch you would have thought they would have found it by now :/
[16:02] <mattbrejza> one spot has also only given one position
[16:02] <fsphil> wouldn't be moving about if they didn't have it out of the tree
[16:03] <mattbrejza> isnt the spot gps supposed to be reasonably shit??
[16:03] <fsphil> true
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[16:12] <mfa298> obviously they need a tracking solution that provides altitude and faster updates :)
[16:12] <fsphil> if only such a thing existed
[16:13] <mfa298> maybe using a popular microcontroller based system
[16:13] <fsphil> with examples and guides online
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[16:34] <Upu> lol
[16:34] <Upu> my sarcasm detector just blew up
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[16:37] <myself> well, that's what you get for using a community-supported sarcasm detector
[16:37] <myself> if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces!
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[16:58] <chrisstubbs> Did anyone else sign up for a navspark?
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> got mine in the post today but not had too much of a chance to pay
[16:58] <chrisstubbs> play
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[17:13] <mfa298> I think I'd missed it when those were talked about before.
[17:14] <mfa298> looks interesting
[17:14] Action: mfa298 needs more time to play with fun toys
[17:17] <myself> chrisstubbs: ooh ooh, are they shipping? I'll keep a closer eye on my mailbox!
[17:18] <myself> Huh, I didn't get the update email. Sweeeet.
[17:19] <mfa298> I should have a bananapi on route which will be interesting to see how that works with things like dl-fldigi
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[17:23] <mclane_> unbelievable: no Bxx in the air ;-)
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[17:25] <amell> yes, its sad isnt it
[17:26] <myself> no Bxx reporting packets, anyway.... you never know if they're all still out there, lurking silently
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[17:26] <myself> looming just over that hill
[17:26] <mclane_> anyways, usually they do not come near to me
[17:26] <myself> that's just what they want you to think
[17:27] <myself> they turn off their transmitters before coming to stalk you
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[17:30] <jededu> I was playing with a bananapi last week, with their image you cant access the GPIO pins yet
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[17:32] <jededu> And cards dont fit the pin header is offset
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[17:50] <myself> jonsowman: 05/08-14:12 < eroomde> exactly
[17:50] <myself> 05/08-14:15 < eroomde> so, I have spoken over 1000000 words on this channel now, according to zeusbot, which i think is enough irc for this lifetime, at least for now, so i'm off
[17:50] <myself> 05/08-14:15 < eroomde> thanks for all the fish
[17:50] <myself> 05/08-14:17 -!- eroomde [~ed@kraken.habhub.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:52] <myself> If I needed to reach eroomde, I'd start at his flickr, since he pasted some photo links once, and I know flickr has user-to-user messaging.
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[17:53] <adamgreig> I hear he might even perhaps use that fabled ancient comms technology, email
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[17:58] <myself> well sure, but I don't know his email address
[17:58] <myself> I suppose I could send a telegram asking it
[18:01] <mattbrejza> look at the mailing list for it
[18:02] Action: mfa298 was just about to say the same as mattbrejza
[18:03] <mfa298> jededu: I'd seen that the bananapi layout wasn't quite compatible with the RPi. although it will be interesting to see how it develops as a system
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[18:07] <myself> whoah, there's a mailing list? heh. I'm just an irc kid.
[18:07] <craag> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
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[18:09] <myself> oooooo. that explains why things here seem so uk-centric :D
[18:10] <myself> am not always too bright..
[18:11] <craag> The whole aprs-being-illegal thing has brought together a lot more community in the UK than most other countries
[18:12] <craag> So the reason for it being UK-centric is more by demand than design
[18:13] <craag> demand is the wrong word... evolution
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[18:13] Nick change: Johnny -> Guest16446
[18:15] <mfa298> Id guess being a smaller country helps as well (i.e. a good proportion of the listeners can track a flight)
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[18:22] <craag> mfa298: Got any specific plans for the bananapi?
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[18:22] <craag> Hopefully the ethernet subsystem would be better than the Pi, give it a chance of using that gigabit connection at capacity
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[18:25] <Lunar_Lander> yellow PCB?
[18:26] <craag> heh that would be good!
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[18:33] <mfa298> craag: not really yet although I'm interested to see how the extra CPU helps various things (like can it run a websdr / dl-fldigi)
[18:33] <craag> mm
[18:34] <mfa298> looks like the ethernet is part of the soc rather than just via usb so will hopefully be better.
[18:34] <mfa298> same with the sata connection
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[18:34] <craag> Yeah I was thinking the combination of SATA and decent ethernet would make a nice NAS
[18:35] <craag> I was about to say it might make a nice pfsense box too
[18:36] <mfa298> could make for a good pvr as well
[18:36] <craag> But FreeBSD support might be little way off...
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[18:49] <en4rab> Have you looked at the odroid if you want a single board computer with a bit more oompf
[18:49] <en4rab> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
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[18:51] <madmike> anyone on here?
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> "The Powerful Linux Computer"
[18:52] <LeoBodnar> I can't argue with the "powerful"
[18:52] <madmike> i have a question regarding HAB path predicting
[18:53] <craag> madmike: shoot!
[18:53] <LeoBodnar> we are ready
[18:53] <madmike> ok i have already launched a balloon with 99% success
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> oh
[18:54] <madmike> where it failed was the github hab predictor got it.... rather wrong
[18:54] <craag> the github hab predictor?
[18:55] <madmike> the balloon done exactly as it should.... just the predicted path was...... realy badly off by 200 miles
[18:55] <madmike> http://predict.habhub.org/
[18:55] <madmike> sorry habhub
[18:56] <craag> Hmm, have you got a comparison of the two?
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[18:56] <LeoBodnar> so what is your question?
[18:56] <madmike> hold on... ( i have toddler sitting with me too)
[18:57] <madmike> question, any better way to predict winds ect?
[18:58] <Upu> You must have put something in wrong. It may be off a little but I've never seen it that far out
[18:58] <madmike> i even got an update on the predictor just before launch, but it was nowhere near correct.
[18:58] <craag> For up-burst-down flights, I'm not aware of any better tool
[18:59] <Upu> did it float ?
[18:59] <craag> It'd be good to compare your ascent rate and burst altitude against the one you ued in the predictor
[18:59] <LeoBodnar> can we try historical data on predictor ?
[19:00] <Upu> doubt it
[19:00] <Upu> at 27Gb per data set every 6 hours
[19:00] <madmike> the ascent rate was pretty spot on, and flight time was pretty spot on... but the high winds were.... rather stronger
[19:01] <Upu> we don't really archive it
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> has anybody else launched same day?
[19:02] <madmike> it was monday the 5th
[19:08] <madmike> and the path of the balloon was more or less linear, the predictor showed it looping back on itself,
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[19:09] <IZ8YMH> Ciao a tutti :D
[19:09] <craag> madmike: What was the difference in burst altitude?
[19:09] <Upu> evening IZ8YMH
[19:10] <madmike> not a lot, i put in the predictor 110,000 and it popped at just under 105,000
[19:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> what was the Flight name ?
[19:11] <madmike> name?
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[19:11] <LeoBodnar> feet?
[19:11] <madmike> aye
[19:11] <Upu> predictor works in meters
[19:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> callsign
[19:11] <madmike> i know that i converted
[19:12] <Upu> very odd
[19:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> You created a Payload and Flight document what was the callsign used ?
[19:13] <madmike> the predictor did... sort of get the total distance travelled right, but the balloon traveled in a fairly straight path, the predictor had it go in a loop, that was pretty much the only difference
[19:13] <madmike> you mean with the CAA?
[19:13] <Upu> I've never come across it being that far out however I guess its possible
[19:14] <mattbrejza> do you have screenshots etc of the actual flight and expected flight?
[19:14] <Upu> the wind data is only good to about 30km I think
[19:14] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: I don't think it was a habitat tracked flight
[19:14] <mattbrejza> kinda hard to tell otherwise what might have happened
[19:14] <LeoBodnar> well so far we have almost no information to try to explain the discrepancy
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> On habitat, I was going to pull out the flight path, but need a callsign of the payload
[19:14] <madmike> no i never used habitat
[19:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> you could be right craag
[19:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> How was it tracked then ?
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[19:15] <madmike> anyway, back to my question, is there any other way to predict winds? (as a backup)
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[19:17] <Upu> there is another predictor but its not quite as advanced as the habhub one
[19:17] <craag> Not that I know of. The CUSF predictor is only as good as the NOAA wind data it uses
[19:17] <Upu> and it uses the same data
[19:17] <LeoBodnar> get your local aeronavigation charts but they usually don't cover 30km alt
[19:17] <Upu> and you can't change the descent or ascent rates
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[19:19] <Upu> I can't even find the other predictor now
[19:20] <Upu> Arhab don't list it any more
[19:20] <madmike> hmmmm ok
[19:21] <craag> Sounds like you could have been unlucky with the wind data
[19:21] <craag> Very unlucky :/
[19:21] <madmike> i still have 2 months before i try again....
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do you have any details of the balloon / payload/ lift etc. ?
[19:21] <mfa298> madmike: where are you located and how did you track it ?
[19:22] <madmike> scotland, and via mobile (lost signal above 30k but got data back on way back down with path)
[19:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> 30k meters or feet ?
[19:24] <madmike> 30k feet
[19:24] <craag> 30000 ft is an impressive height for gsm!
[19:24] <SIbot> In real units: 30000 ft = 9 km
[19:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> very impressive!
[19:25] <craag> usually drops around 3 or 4 at most
[19:25] <craag> (3 or 4 km)
[19:25] <madmike> i had one mobile with a diy directional collector pointing down
[19:25] <Upu> madmike http://weather.uwyo.edu/polar/balloon_traj.html
[19:25] <Upu> but it uses the same data
[19:25] <Upu> and assumes a fixed ascent and descent
[19:26] <Upu> meh use a radio tracker next time
[19:26] <mfa298> I'd guess a directional antenna and potentially fewer base stations might have helped a gsm tracker not hit too many base stations
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[19:48] <madmike> just checked the tracking, still had a signal at 30-377 feet, balloon travelling at 60mph at the time :-p
[19:48] <SIbot> In real units: 377 ft = 115 m
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[19:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can't see any flights listed the closest was daveake for the previous Sunday 4th evening but he cancelled due to change in winds.
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[19:58] <madmike> i will try again in a few months, with a much bigger margin of error....
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[20:00] <craag> Also use a radio tracker to get continuous tracking and realtime predictions through spacenear.us
[20:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Out of interest madmike what was the sampling rate for the GPS data that was stored ?
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[20:11] <madmike> i will need to check what sample rate was used.... hold on
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[21:06] <Spectre> Evening all
[21:07] <craag> Good evening
[21:08] <Spectre> Anyone experienced using raspberry Pi as flight computer?
[21:09] <craag> Yep
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[21:09] <craag> Unless you're wanting to stream pictures down over SSDV, it's a bit overkill.
[21:09] <craag> But depends what capability you want from your Flight Computer.
[21:10] <arko> even ssdv doesnt REALLY need pi :)
[21:10] <craag> true!
[21:11] <arko> not to say the pi isnt any good
[21:11] <craag> Nice flight btw arko
[21:11] <craag> I was looking at the photos - looks like you had a good few spectators!
[21:11] <arko> :) thanks, i have fsphil, LeoBodnar, and Upu to thank as well for that flight
[21:11] <arko> craag: yeah, 100 people or so
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[21:12] <craag> Spectre: So what capability do you want from your 'Flight Computer'?
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[21:20] <mikestir> satcom pirates on 252.150
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[21:41] <malclocke> so my Si4464 chips arrived yesterday
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[21:42] <malclocke> after the tears of laughter subsided from the prospect of soldering up the just turned into regular tears
[21:44] <fsphil> haha
[21:44] <fsphil> at this point people consider getting some kind of reflow oven :)
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[21:46] <mattbrejza> where 'some kind' can be applied liberally
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[21:54] <Upu> not sure I'd try those without an oven malclocke
[21:55] <chrisstubbs> can you not hot air them?
[21:56] <Upu> in theory yes
[21:56] <Upu> but holding them where they are meant to go
[21:56] <Upu> and hot airing is touch
[21:56] <Upu> tough
[21:56] <Upu> have done it but oven is much easier
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[21:56] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[21:56] <Willdude> Upu, do you use a toaster oven professionally?
[21:57] <Upu> no I have a T962A
[21:57] <malclocke> a friend has an oven, I think I am going to be leaning on him heavily for this
[21:57] <Upu> I never got on with the toaster
[21:57] <Upu> the temp sensor was a pain in the ass
[21:57] <malclocke> I just didn't realise they were quite that small, I was imagining being able to solder some wires on for prototyping ...
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[21:58] <Upu> haha
[21:58] <Upu> no
[21:58] <Upu> get a little break out from dx.com
[21:59] <mattbrejza> the price of the chinese pcb fab houses these days means you might as well just get a test board made up
[21:59] <malclocke> ahh, there are break outs available, I couldn't find any after a short search
[22:00] <mattbrejza> http://www.dx.com/p/double-side-qfp-qfn-tqfp-lqfp-16-80-pin-to-dip-adapter-breakout-board-module-for-arduino-206458#.U4UK_fldU0Q
[22:01] <mattbrejza> really stretching 'for arduino'
[22:01] <chrisstubbs> aha mattbrejza
[22:02] <mattbrejza> although at $5 it seems better to get some boards made, if nothing else sending that design to get made will get you 10 of the boards for not much more
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[22:04] <malclocke> I'm kind of thinking now of putting those chips aside for now and getting an NTX2 instead for flight #1
[22:04] <malclocke> then work on a complete board later down the track
[22:05] <mattbrejza> the ntx2 is a glorified si446x breakout anyway
[22:07] <malclocke> I was wanting to do APRS + RTTY, hence the si4464. might be getting ideas above my station.
[22:08] <chrisstubbs> do you have much experience with electronics/programming malclocke?
[22:08] <mattbrejza> when you do get round to making a si4464 on a pcb there are at least enough people here who can check your board for stupids
[22:09] <mattbrejza> aprs and rtty on the same frequency band?
[22:09] <malclocke> chrisstubbs, nope ... I have people locally who can help out though
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[22:09] <aadamson> Upu, - ping in PM
[22:09] <chrisstubbs> ntx2/ublox/arduino tracker is a super easy starting point
[22:10] <mattbrejza> its bedtime here aadamson
[22:10] <malclocke> mattbrejza, potentially yes. APRS in NZ is on 2m, and there is a data band allocation immediately above it.
[22:10] <mattbrejza> if you wanted to put aprs and rtty both on 2m thats reasonbly easily done
[22:11] <aadamson> yep, understood, I saw he posted approx 10-15mins ago so just dropped him some stuff, he'll get it in the morning if not tonight
[22:12] <aadamson> mikestir, balloons came today, picked up my He bottle as well, need to fab some fittings and a couple of other things
[22:12] <aadamson> predict looks interesting on the 29th here so unless it changes, I'll shot for that
[22:12] <aadamson> shoot that is :)
[22:13] <malclocke> NZ APRS is on 144.575 and the Si446x chip was the only one I could find that would do it
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[22:15] <malclocke> the primary motivation for APRS was 'free' trackers, as I didn't expect there would be anyone other than the chase crew tracking. but apparently people may come out of the woodwork to track, so that may not be an issue.
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[22:20] <mikestir> malclocke: hand soldering 0.5mm pitch parts isn't too hard if you have a steady hand. Tag it down in a corner then inspect all four sides and adjust as required
[22:20] Nick change: davids -> Guest34949
[22:21] <mikestir> once you're happy tag down the opposite corner and check again. If all is well solder them all
[22:21] <mikestir> use lots of flux. solder the pad underneath through a hole in the board
[22:21] <mikestir> clean up with IPA
[22:22] <Guest34949> aadamson, where is the code for your siradio board based on arduino pro mini? https://github.com/akadamson/STM32-TX/tree/master/SIradio
[22:22] <malclocke> ... cry into resulting amorphous pool of solder and drink self into stupor
[22:22] <mikestir> hehe that's what the IPA is for
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[22:29] <malclocke> yeh, the IPA part I can definitely do :)
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[23:00] <aadamson> Guest34949, that board - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2416.JPG will run the regular trackduino code on a pro mini, you just need the si radio library which can be found here - https://github.com/akadamson/pecanpico4
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[23:00] <aadamson> You will have to sort our some changes with pin assignments, etc
[23:01] <aadamson> Guest34949, I never really released any AVR code, and my STM32 code is functional, but so far unreleased
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[23:05] <aadamson> Guest34949, I'll pull together my directory of the last time I built for that platform, but you'll be on your own :)... give me a minute to create a zipfile
[23:07] <amell> its a very sad state of affairs when snus only has 4 chase cars on it, 2 of them apparently submerged in water.
[23:08] <aadamson> Guest34949, here is an avr version of the code that I ran to a/b test the si446x board. - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/radio_si446x.zip - it's just trackduino with the 446x code modified to correct some errors in the code, and removed a few sensors that don't exist
[23:08] <aadamson> Guest34949, I haven't ran that code in quite some time, so no promises, but it's start
[23:09] <amell> Guest34949: Have you gone to bed?
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[23:09] <aadamson> amell, his message is 30 mins old, so perhaps so...
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[23:25] <Guest34949> aadamson, I just read your message
[23:25] <aadamson> k
[23:25] <Guest34949> your board is awesome
[23:26] <aadamson> it was really just a proof of concept... and it let me prove function both on the arduino pro mini and my stm32F3 mini which uses the same footprint
[23:26] <aadamson> it's what is in that picture along side the radio board.
[23:26] <aadamson> the radio board does have 2 issues btw.
[23:27] <aadamson> a) the VCXO may drift on you based upon temperature, it's not a TCVCXO and I could never find one that had a wide enough swing
[23:28] <aadamson> b) there is one set of pads right next to the VCXO that really need to be moved away from the VCXO further, my first built board, the resistor shorted out the VCXO - no damage, but I had to replace it with an 0402 version and move it away from the VCXO so it wouldn't short
[23:28] <aadamson> all the above allowed me to test and built a fully integrated board - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2443.JPG
[23:28] <aadamson> (minus the gps module in that picture)
[23:29] <aadamson> but that's all 32 bit using an STM32L151CB
[23:29] <Guest34949> cool
[23:30] <Guest34949> What is the reason that you use a stm32?
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[23:31] <aadamson> Nothing really, it doesn't need the horsepower, I guess the only reason was I could go to up to 256k flash, 16k ram, with all the peripheral advantages that the ARM has (background DMA, IRQ, TIMERS, etc)
[23:31] <aadamson> and I have about 4 or 5 other projects that all use the STM32 so I was pretty comfortable with it.
[23:32] <aadamson> the L version let me play with a low power version - e.g. when my board is a sleep (actually in stop mode), it draws < 1mA of current and can wake up in microseconds
[23:32] <craag> aadamson: Out of interest - what peripheral libraries do you use with the stm32?
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[23:33] <aadamson> craag, I'm a standard peripheral lib guy so when I build, I just stick the entire stdperip lib in my build environment
[23:33] <craag> fair enuf - cheers
[23:33] <aadamson> and I include all the header files, (the basic project will setup that way if using eclipse and the gnu arm plugin
[23:34] <aadamson> So I build the entire library and just let the linker sort out what gets linked in
[23:35] <Guest34949> aadamson, I am very grateful with your help
[23:35] <aadamson> craag, I try to use the latest CMSIS information from ARM as well, it's a 3.4 or 4.2 currently I forget
[23:35] <Guest34949> I will try to make the boards
[23:35] <Guest34949> and use your arduino code
[23:36] <aadamson> craag, for example, in my ISS prediction stuff, it uses lots of sin and cos, etc
[23:36] <Guest34949> thank you very much
[23:36] <aadamson> doing that in the regular clibs is a memory pig and slower than molassas, so in the CMSIS stuff, ARM has some *fast versions* of those routines, which helped a bunch
[23:36] <craag> Cool thanks aadamson
[23:37] <aadamson> on an M4 variant, you can also get versions that use the hardware floating point whereas on an M3 you do most of that in software
[23:37] <craag> I'm looking to jump into stm32 once I'm out of exams and have heard a lot about libopencm3
[23:37] <aadamson> Guest34949, if you look at the eagle file, you'll see the issue with that resistor, it's directly above the VCXO
[23:37] <aadamson> Guest34949, have fun!
[23:38] <Guest34949> thanks aadamson
[23:38] <aadamson> craag, yes, I didn't go there and in looking at it, I'm not really sure what the advantage would be, it buries things even further from the hardware than stdperiph
[23:38] <craag> The M4s look stupid powerful, but still cheaper than high-end AVRs!
[23:39] <aadamson> craag, at some point I'd like to mess with chibios, coocox, and a couple of other RTOS's
[23:39] <craag> Yeah, the story I've heard was that stdperiph really sucked to start with, but has got better.
[23:39] <aadamson> craag, st is about to release an L4 version as well, which I'm pretty excited about
[23:39] <aadamson> should have hardware floating point, but still the wicked low power that the L version have
[23:39] <craag> ChibiOS did look to have good periph support
[23:39] <aadamson> and I forget, but if I remember, up to 48mhz
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[23:40] <aadamson> craag, yeah, Chibios is for sure on my list...
[23:40] <craag> It's the L0s I'm looking forward to, the M0+s...
[23:40] <craag> crazy low power, and crazy cheap
[23:40] <aadamson> but going to a multitasker sometimes makes my head hurt thinking about the blocking/non/interelationship issues that you have to manage
[23:41] <aadamson> craag, yeah, just wish they had a larger memory footprint from st at least
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[23:42] <aadamson> I pull all the geofence code in for basically north american, mexico, alaska, pretty much all of Europe and that takes a bunch of storage space for all the 4 byte unsigned longs :)
[23:42] <craag> aadamson: I'm used to AVRs and trying to manage HTTP packets in 8KB of RAM... anything larger will be lovely :)
[23:42] <aadamson> so flash is a *good thing* :)
[23:42] <craag> ah yes
[23:42] <aadamson> hehe... ya, been there done that, got lots of t-shirts, perfer not to go back :)
[23:42] <aadamson> ok, dinner calling... have fun and let me know if you have any questions.
[23:43] <craag> Cheers! bedtime for me, gn!
[23:43] <aadamson> I'm also a fan of eclipse and the gnugcc plugin ,those guys have worked hard and while it doesn't support all the processors, it's really good for what it does and it *much* better than prior version... back in a while... gn...
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[00:00] --- Wed May 28 2014