highaltitude.log.20140519

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[03:42] <heathkid> amps = melts/burns anything... :)
[03:43] <heathkid> nichrome is awesome stuff...
[03:43] <heathkid> just add power
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[07:44] <thasti> any si4060 pros here? for the SYNTH_*-registers, do i keep the standard values or is it recommended to use the values spit out by WDS3 calculator?
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[08:06] <thasti> mikestir mikestir-work morning!
[08:06] <thasti> didn't you mention that you are building a tracker with the si4060 as TX?
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[08:27] <DL7AD> morning
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[09:31] <in3aqk> Hello, what is the best antenna polarization to receive a HAB in my case B52?
[09:32] <mfa298> balloons are normaly vertical polarisation
[09:33] <mfa298> although people have used horizontal yagi's with some success when that's all they have up
[09:34] <in3aqk> Perfect I've a former DVB-T Tv log periodic antenna, and I can chose both polarization so I set it to vertical
[09:35] <WillDWork> latest reg write-up: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/19/lohan_motor_ignition/
[09:37] <in3aqk> Thanks mfa298
[09:42] <fsphil> hehe, half that reg video is intro
[09:42] <daveake> The action doesn't last long!
[09:42] WB8ELK (4b78de4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.120.222.76) joined #highaltitude.
[09:43] <daveake> Yeah Lester does like his intros
[09:44] <fsphil> lovely landing spot
[09:45] <daveake> it was
[09:47] <daveake> Not sure why Lester is blaming the gaffer tape; Paul (Shax) is pretty sure one of the motors exploded
[09:47] <daveake> apparently it's a model known to do that quite often
[09:51] <LeoBodnar> is it 24 that exploded?
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[10:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> Nice article
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[10:11] <daveake> I don't know why he blames the gaffer tape
[10:11] <daveake> The end of the CF rod got ripped off
[10:12] <craag> Heh quite a show!
[10:12] <mikestir-work> thasti: sorry only just noticed your message. Yes it's built. Doing software now
[10:13] <craag> Well the fix is either wd40 or gaffer right? And it certainly moved..
[10:13] <WB8ELK> If anyone is on the list from Iceland....please try listening for my three balloons launched from the Dayton Hamvention in Ohio USA....Thor 16 434.442 434.445 and 434.448 WB8ELK-1 WB8ELK-2 and WB8ELK-4 Hysplit shows a flight path crossing over Iceland today
[10:19] <UpuWork> hey Bill
[10:19] <UpuWork> I think one of them was on the way down
[10:19] <UpuWork> WB8ELK-1 is probably on the deck near Columbus
[10:21] <daveake> CF rod that used to hold motors - http://pasteboard.co/8I4EgKG.jpg
[10:21] <WB8ELK> Yes...WB8ELK-1 probably landed just east of Columbus, Ohio....but have no idea if the other two made it to float or not.
[10:22] <WB8ELK> hard to find many hams with UHF sideband stations who can track here...and many of the ones who were capable were attending the Dayton Hamvention
[10:23] <WB8ELK> The First Robotics student teams launched each balloon with a roving robot just outside the building.
[10:25] <WB8ELK> Anthony...will email you photos of the balloon race from the Dayton Hamvention after I get some sleep...just arrived home from Dayton after driving all night.
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[10:50] <fsphil> WB8ELK: what does the robot do?
[10:52] <thasti> mikestir-work: do you develop on github or in private? i'm writing a si4060-lib atm and am struggling with the SYNTH-properties - do you leave them on the defaults or do you put the values from WDS3 calculation in?
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[11:05] <mikestir-work> thasti: I'm developing it in private at the moment, but I can let you have a look at the 4060 driver this evening
[11:05] <mikestir-work> I don't think there were any changes to the SYNTH properties, but there are a couple of changes in MODEM
[11:07] <thasti> the API description is not quite clear about the synth-props, they say "you should not modify xyz from the defaults" and "you should not modify xyz from the WCS calculations" concurrently
[11:08] <thasti> i want to try direct async 2fsk-modulation first, i think i have the modem-registers right - but would be very interested to have a look at your implementation
[11:08] <mikestir-work> and are the values different?
[11:08] <thasti> for the values i input into WDS, yes
[11:08] <mikestir-work> I've not done anything with the modem yet - I just went straight to dominoex
[11:09] <thasti> experimentation will show, i guess - si4060s should arrive here by the end of this week
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[12:07] <spektrw> hi, anyone could share the freq for b-52 balloon?
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[12:09] <mikestir-work> 434.5
[12:10] <thasti> spektrw: 434.500
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[12:17] <thasti> mikestir-work: i guess i looked somewhere wrong - the output of WDS3's synth-property-values is identical to the defaults
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[12:24] <SV1NJX> Is B-52 going up FAST?
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[12:25] <SV1NJX> 24Km height
[12:28] <UpuWork> GPS on the blink probably
[12:28] <UpuWork> where are you seeing that SV1NJX ?
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[12:29] <SV1NJX> aprs.fi as M0XER-2
[12:29] <SV1NJX> lost?
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[12:31] <UpuWork> well GPS has packed in again
[12:31] <UpuWork> it may come back
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[12:39] <mikestir-work> anyone looking at this SIGFOX network as a possible backhaul solution?
[12:40] <bsis_jw> Hi, we've completed a payload document, however we are unsure of our flight date, is there a way that we can test our transmitter on the server without submitting a payload document?
[12:41] <in3aqk> Wich aprs frequency uses B52 144390?
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> 144.800
[12:42] <mfa298> bsis_jw: you only need a payload doc for it to appear on spacenear.us, then do the flight doc when you have a better idea of when to launch
[12:42] <bsis_jw> mfa298: Thanks a lot, that's a great help.
[12:42] <in3aqk> good wich tx have you used, I know tha the radiometrix uses 144390
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[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Si4060 based transmitter
[12:43] <in3aqk> thanks leo, i need one for a robot boat
[12:47] <craag> in3aqk: You can get the radiometrix HX1 for either frequency.
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[12:48] <craag> Of course it's one or the other, not frequency agile like an si4060-based unit can be.
[12:48] <in3aqk> craag is radiometrix available also for 144800, I've not found this info on their site i must see better
[12:49] <craag> in3aqk: YOu can get them both from HAB supplies http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[12:49] <craag> and 145.175 even
[12:50] <in3aqk> perfect many thanks, now I should work..
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[13:04] <SV1NJX> in3aqk , we used HX-1 radiometrix 144.800 200mw module for J43VHF-11 balloon
[13:04] <SV1NJX> 300mw
[13:04] <SV1NJX> b-52 alive near Sardinia
[13:06] <in3aqk> Thanks chris, unfortunately in Italy aprs is not permitted in flight, my intention is to develop a robot boat and a fluvial buoy
[13:06] <in3aqk> 300 mw are a bit low for a terrestrial gear but i intend to try
[13:07] <Laurenceb__> http://www.tshirts.in/mart/images/mt_00001-00500/mt00392.gif
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[13:18] <aadamson> so say I wanted to put out USB, MFSK on an appropriate UK *VHF* frequency, what would that be? 144.800-144.990?
[13:18] <SV1NJX> i tried it terrestrial and is quite good
[13:18] <SV1NJX> you must have visual with digipeater
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[13:19] <mfa298> aadamson: best bet is to look at th UK bandplans on the rsgb site - although if it's airborne it's not allowed (UK terms say no airborne usage of AR)
[13:19] <aadamson> in vhf?
[13:19] <aadamson> but you can in uhf?
[13:20] <aadamson> or is the uhf the ism band stuff
[13:20] <in3aqk> NJX I should try with low power I've a an old ic2e with 500 mw
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[13:20] <mfa298> we can't do any AR airborne. We have an ISM band at 434MHz that allows airborne but hence the low powers used
[13:20] <aadamson> ah, ok...
[13:21] <in3aqk> In Italy is the same no AR airborne
[13:21] <aadamson> bizarre rule about no air AR... wonder what the issue is with that?
[13:21] <Darkside> population density
[13:21] <aadamson> ERP I'm sure I guess
[13:21] <aadamson> yeah
[13:21] <mfa298> of course if it's a floater from the US you could do the standard american thing and claim ignorance
[13:22] <gonzo___> the ban is historical, but fingers crossed it may relax in the future
[13:22] <gonzo___> ignorance or indifference?
[13:22] <aadamson> easier to repent than ask for permission :)
[13:23] <mfa298> for some it's probably ignorance (you mean there are other countries other than US/Canada/Mexico!!)
[13:23] <gonzo___> once it's outside your borders, then it's SEP
[13:24] <Laurenceb__> im confused by uk post prices
[13:24] <Laurenceb__> 1st class large letter is 93p
[13:24] <Laurenceb__> but that cant be done with stamps?!
[13:24] <Laurenceb__> wtf
[13:25] <Laurenceb__> 1st class stamp is 62p
[13:25] <mattbrejza> tape coins to the envolope
[13:25] <Laurenceb__> lol
[13:26] <mattbrejza> cant you buy 1p, 2p, 5p etc stamps?
[13:26] <mfa298> mattbrejza: but then you'll probably need extra coins to cover the extra weigt/ thickness
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> not easily
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> this is clearly a scam to imcrease stamp sales
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[13:26] <mfa298> there are "1st Large" stamps but you probably need to visit the PO to get them
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> exactly
[13:27] <adamgreig> you can buy 1p and 2p and etc stamps
[13:27] <gonzo___> the post office do stamps by value. It's full to paster a letter with dozens
[13:27] <adamgreig> to pay whatever postage you want
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> i have to overspend with 2 x 1st class
[13:27] <gonzo___> maked your mouth dry though
[13:27] <adamgreig> but like
[13:27] <adamgreig> just buy your postage online
[13:27] <daveake> You can order the 1st/large ones online
[13:27] <adamgreig> royalmail.com
[13:27] <daveake> ^
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> yes i guess
[13:27] <adamgreig> don't even need to order them, you can print it out
[13:27] <gonzo___> full=fun
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> ah
[13:27] Nick change: cnelson_ -> cnelson
[13:28] <adamgreig> and it charges you exact postage for that item, you print a pre-paid address and bits and stick em on your envelope
[13:28] <adamgreig> if you have envelope stickers then so much the better
[13:28] <Laurenceb__> thanks for that, veyr useful
[13:28] <adamgreig> but it's pretty useful
[13:28] <adamgreig> can do international and parcels-by-weight too
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[13:32] <daveake> Unless it's changed, the problem I have with the printing thing is that you have to post by the end of the following day
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[13:33] <daveake> which can be a pain if you're out in the sticks and forget to take the envelope
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[15:11] <Willdude123> Hi
[15:11] <fsphil> altitude
[15:11] <Willdude123> I passed my intermediate yesterday!
[15:11] <fsphil> ooh congrats
[15:11] <fsphil> how'd you find it?
[15:12] <Willdude123> Challenging
[15:12] <Willdude123> My soldering was quoted as being
[15:12] <Willdude123> "Pretty terrible, but I've seen worse"
[15:12] <fsphil> lol
[15:12] <Willdude123> That said the iron was massive
[15:12] <fsphil> yea that doesn't help
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[15:13] <Willdude123> I'm now writing a program to figure out what the shortest call sign is
[15:13] <Willdude123> In morse
[15:13] <Willdude123> (Available)
[15:17] <myself> Willdude123: http://ae7q.com/query/text/Explain.php
[15:17] <myself> "Morse weight" is the term
[15:18] <mfa298> with the 2e0 any callsign is going to be pretty long
[15:20] <sp2ipt> Willdude123: ly1s seems to be free ;)
[15:21] <myself> where are you that the exam includes soldering? that's awesome!
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> oh nice Willdude123
[15:21] <LeoBodnar> well done
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[15:22] <Willdude123> myself: sort of
[15:22] <Willdude123> I don't agree there should be a practical myself
[15:22] <Willdude123> Morse weight should be easy to calculate
[15:23] <sp2ipt> Willdude123: IMHO it's a great thing. We don't have practical exams in SP, the test questions are just dumb so some people get a license while they shouldn't :/
[15:23] <myself> heh. i work with legions of "engineers" who don't know how to use a multimeter...
[15:24] <fsphil> that should be illegal
[15:24] <myself> i end up teaching remedial soldering on the job to people whose degrees mean nothing about how useful they are
[15:24] <sp2ipt> Willdude123: I wouldn't require (as is the case now in SP) morse because it's getting less and less required on HF (VHF+ is another story) but IMHO people should know some theory :)
[15:25] <myself> right? I'm trying to get the hiring manager to understand this..
[15:25] <mfa298> I think some level of soldering is good to have as a practical skill, it's useful for when you want to attach a plug to that piece of coax - unless you've gone for crimping everything - which get's expensive (and may still require soldering for the pins)
[15:26] <myself> the idea is that hams are not appliance operators... Thou Shalt Not Be Helpless.
[15:26] <mfa298> I'd also suggest most of the other practical skills are good to have in the course (the only one that seems pointless is the morse appreciation)
[15:27] <daveake> I appreciate that I never want to waste time learning morse
[15:27] <Willdude123> mfa298_: I was thinking about learning cw
[15:27] <Willdude123> Is it really that much better than PSK and what have you?
[15:28] <fsphil> only advantage is being able to decode it by ear
[15:28] <sp2ipt> Willdude123: when you go to VHF, UHF and microwave seriously (and I hope some day you will ;) it becomes necessary
[15:28] <myself> i learned it long enough to pass an exam and say i could, then promptly forgot it.
[15:28] <myself> soldering i use constantly.
[15:29] <mfa298> I have nothing against people that want to learn morse (I started trying to learn a few years ago) but the current morse appreciation in the foundation test makes no sense.
[15:29] <daveake> agreed
[15:29] <Willdude123> Yeah
[15:29] <mfa298> spending the same time introducing the candidates to a range of digital modes would be more useful
[15:29] <Laurenceb__> i dont like B-52 altitude
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[15:29] <Willdude123> Why not have Spanish appreciation as well?
[15:30] <Willdude123> A lot of people speak Spanish on the radio
[15:30] <sp2ipt> Willdude123: it's 1/3 of the world :)
[15:32] <sp2ipt> ok, going back to learning for my exam :)
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[16:11] <g0pai_ian> Congrats Willdude123. Write a program to calculate . . . shows a bit of a flawed approach :) 2E0eee or combinations of e i s h, but even 2E0EIE is more of a conversatoin piece than useful in Morse. 2E0XYZ would probably get asked to repeat callsign less often!
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[16:45] <malgar> iz2kzv: ciao
[16:45] <malgar> are you in italy?
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[16:58] <ranga> hi guys me and a group of students are developing a weather balloon and due to shortage of time i want to know if there is a way to predict the future position of the balloon or payload minute after minute
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[17:00] <x-f> ranga, are you familiar with the CUSF predictor?
[17:01] <thasti> ranga: you can look at http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajtype.pl
[17:01] <ranga> habhub?
[17:02] <x-f> yes
[17:02] <ranga> i have seen it and it predicted a point. but i am working for a competition i didnt mention that
[17:02] <x-f> you can export the data from it with all four dimensions
[17:04] <ranga> and we are supposed to develop a ground station to track it so i was planning to use the gps location sent to track a future position and show that side by side
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[17:07] <ranga> thasti thankyou so much and i am looking into it
[17:08] <x-f> so you want a fresh prediction every time you get new information?
[17:08] <ranga> yes kinda
[17:08] <ranga> one method i want to employ is kalman filter but i am not sure about it
[17:09] <ranga> but the http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajtype.pl doesnot work for india
[17:09] <x-f> spacenear.us tracker basically does that automatically
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[17:10] <x-f> HYSPLIT is world wide
[17:11] <ranga> ok
[17:14] <ranga> should i download that software PC Windows-based HYSPLIT
[17:16] <x-f> there is a software?
[17:16] <x-f> HYSPLIT isn't really useful for a regular up-down flight, it is good for long range floaters at a constant altitude
[17:17] <ranga> ill see that
[17:18] <x-f> you want to predict only the next point or..?
[17:18] <ranga> next point and by chance if i loose communication i must be able to predict a location
[17:19] <ranga> is there any advice regarding communication modules
[17:20] <ranga> used in weather balloons apart from GSpot
[17:20] <craag> ranga: Have you seen the wiki?
[17:20] <x-f> usually HAB trackers transmit telemetry continously so there is no need for such prediction
[17:20] <x-f> usually predictions are used for the landing point prediction
[17:20] <ranga> not much
[17:21] <ranga> ok
[17:21] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:guides
[17:21] <craag> It is useful to have a live landing prediction so you can be there when it comes down. the tracker map at spacenear.us does this automatically
[17:22] <craag> You just need to upload the telemetry data in realtime to the habitat server.
[17:22] <ranga> and even the habhub
[17:23] <craag> habitat server: http://habitat.habhub.org/
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[17:25] <craag> In the UK we use license-exempt 10mW transmitters at ~434 MHz to reliably transmit telemetry, there's tons of info on it on the wiki.
[17:25] <craag> You'll need to check that the laws allow you to do the same in india.
[17:26] <ranga> i will chek it
[17:26] <craag> Else, you can use your own telemetry solution and write a program to upload the data to habitat, at which point you'll get it displayed on spacenearus, a live prediction calculated for it, and all the data stored so you can download it later.
[17:27] <ranga> we were planning to use a xigbee pro 868 or xtend 900 for it
[17:28] <craag> :/ Some people have done ok with them, but they haven't got the range of the 434 MHz RTTY system.
[17:28] <ranga> ok so do i need permission to upload data
[17:28] <ranga> ok so the lesser the frequency the better the range
[17:28] <craag> You don't need permission, just read the guides and documentation.
[17:28] <craag> No
[17:29] <craag> The UKHAS 434 system uses very slow RTTY for longer range.
[17:29] <craag> less datarate = greater range
[17:29] <ranga> ok
[17:29] <x-f> ranga, on which side of India are you located?
[17:29] <ranga> will it be sufficient to send the gps data
[17:29] <craag> If you do use the 868/900, you'll probably want a yagi or similar high gain antenna on the ground.
[17:30] <ranga> the competition will be held in bangalore that is south
[17:30] <craag> ranga: Absolutely, that's what we use it for!
[17:30] <craag> eg. $$CRAAG1,1,101317,50.933260,-1.38xxxx,32,7*AF34
[17:31] <ranga> ok you are sending the reduced gprmc data
[17:31] <craag> ^^ sending a callsign, sentence counter, time (10:13:17), latitude, longitude
[17:31] <craag> altitude and number of satellites
[17:31] <ranga> ok
[17:31] <craag> * a checksum
[17:31] <craag> Do check the laws first
[17:32] <craag> There have been other people on here talking about doing flights in india, but I never heard what they found out
[17:32] <craag> Might be worth an email to our mailing list if you can't find anything.
[17:32] <ranga> i will and should we rely on the gps based altitutde or use an altimeter if so suggest one that can be interfaced with arduino please
[17:32] <craag> use gps altitude
[17:32] <craag> But make sure you get a gps that works at >18km
[17:33] <ranga> sure we are planning to use adafruit gps ultimate breakout
[17:33] <g0pai_ian> Spot GPS has issues, so a Ublox solution is perhaps better http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60 that and NTX2B transmitters
[17:33] <craag> If you can get a ublox, it would be better than the adafruit
[17:34] <ranga> ok
[17:34] <craag> I've got personal experience with the adafruit - it didn't work so well for me, kept losing lock.
[17:34] <craag> Are any of your team radio hams?
[17:35] <g0pai_ian> I have had some G-Spot experience but not with high altitude balloons :)
[17:35] <x-f> Adafruit's limit was 27 km, iirc
[17:35] <ranga> no but my father has a license and i am preparing fo it
[17:35] <ranga> but adafruit said it can work above too
[17:35] <craag> ranga: Cool :) You may want to look into APRS as another alternative.
[17:36] <craag> ranga: I've gotta run - but you've got many options, varying in reliability, complexity and cost - read around - decide which you like!
[17:36] <ranga> atleast if it work within 2o km we can handle the parachute
[17:37] <craag> adafruit has not been tested above 27km afaik
[17:37] <craag> gtg
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[17:37] <ranga> cost upto 4000 dollars is the budget
[17:37] <ranga> thank you craag
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[17:41] <malgar> LeoBodnar: welcome in italy
[17:41] <malgar> :P
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> lol
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> grazie
[17:46] <ranga> we are expecting the balloon to burst after 30km asper the hosts of the competition
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[17:58] Action: Willdude gave up on the morse weight calculator
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[17:59] <LeoBodnar> why?
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[18:02] <malgar> iz2kzv: ping
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[18:03] <LeoBodnar> what is morse weight calculator?
[18:04] <malgar> iz2kzv_: ping
[18:05] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: craag and I find the concept of a morse weight calculator highly amusing....
[18:05] <LeoBodnar> what is morse "weight"?
[18:05] <cm13g09> we have no idea...
[18:05] <cm13g09> but SUWS has a James Morse....
[18:06] <iz2kzv_> hey
[18:06] <cm13g09> hence the amusement....
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> therefore it can probably be achieved with a one-liner in Unix
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> oh
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[18:06] <malgar> LeoBodnar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4
[18:06] <LeoBodnar> Pun is all around us...
[18:06] <malgar> this
[18:07] <malgar> iz2kzv_: ti ho contattato in privato
[18:07] <DL1SGP> evening all :)
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[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:33] <henryplumb> Hi
[18:38] <mclane_> Hello Lunar_Lander
[18:39] <mclane_> I have been at my preferred supplyer (Con....) tonight and saw this: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/content/conrad-strato-flight/Actioncam-Test-extrem-Flug-in-die-Stratosphaere-mit-Conrad-Electronic
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[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah saw that already
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[18:54] <bsis_jw> Hi. Does anyone know if the spacenear.us tracker can be used in a testing mode so we can test our payload before a launch date?
[18:55] <mfa298> bsis_jw: there's no seperate testing mode, just try to stay away from times when someones got an active flight on
[18:56] <mfa298> I think there's a flight on tomorrow morning but you'll be ok at the moment
[18:56] <Willdude> I have concluded 2E0EEI is the quickest callsign
[18:56] <bsis_jw> Sorry, not sure I understand. I can't test at the moment, but if we have setup our payload doc and then start transmitting through dl-fldigi, will it then show up in the tracker?
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> yes as soon as you have created a payload document
[18:57] <bsis_jw> OK that's absolutely great, thanks.
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[18:57] <mfa298> as long as there's a payload doc it'll appear, just don't test with dl-fldigi online if there's an active flight
[18:58] <mfa298> (although you may want to ignore any B-* flights if they've been doing a day or so as Leo almost continuously has an active flight)
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[19:06] <sp2ipt> to cut the story short: ignore Leo ;)
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[19:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi SP9UOB-Tom
[19:06] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: hi :)
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[19:17] <mikestir> nice storm here
[19:17] <Upu> not got to me yet
[19:18] <mikestir> good fork lightning. some strikes to ground making the power blip
[19:19] <Upu> yikes
[19:20] <mikestir> http://www.wirralcam.com/waterfront.shtml
[19:20] <mikestir> the last two updates on that have had huge lightning bolts in them
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you use the dongles with the R820T chip for the RTL-SDR balloon receivers?
[19:20] <Upu> nice
[19:22] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Yep those work, the websdr is R820t
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:23] <SA6BSS> SP9UOB-Tom: hi, what freq is the ballon on??
[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> 144.250 MHz
[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> USB
[19:24] <SA6BSS> tnx
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[19:51] <LeoBodnar> hey Tom, evening!
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[19:55] Nick change: GargantuaSauce_ -> GargantuaSauce
[19:55] <g0pai_ian> Willdude 2E0EEE followed equaly by 2E0EEI, 2E0EIE and 2E0EEI, then 2E0EII, 2E0IIE and 2E0IEI - so who would actually need a calculator?
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[19:56] <Willdude> g0pai_ian, are you familiar with the meaning of #yolo?
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> what is the meaning of # in #yolo?
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[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> hey LeoBodnar :-)
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> hej hej
[19:57] <g0pai_ian> I guess that #yolo is an IRC channel?
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> are you transmitting compressed telemetry?
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> right now?
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes - 32 bytes modified base91
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> and habitat is decoding it?
[19:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no :-( this is backlog, im decoding it locally
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> i see
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> 0,2014-04-19,18:50:07,50.320927,18.656376,1057
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> 1,2014-04-19,17:16:29,50.277363,18.653919,252
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> 2,2014-04-19,19:50:09,50.402542,18.666758,5687
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> but... it is stored in habitat database
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> why "modified"?
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[19:59] <Willdude> LeoBodnar, hashtag
[19:59] <Willdude> g0pai_ian, it means hashtag YOLO
[20:00] <g0pai_ian> So it's not frozen yoghurt. You Only Live Once. Best choose your callsign carefully or you will need to do the Advanced course to change it, or get an overseas callsign.
[20:00] <Laurenceb> n00b question
[20:00] <Laurenceb> can i ssh over vpn?
[20:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: because it was contain ',' and '*' signs which are not well tolerated by habitat :-)
[20:00] <Willdude> YOLO stands for you only live once
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[20:00] <LeoBodnar> yes Laurenceb
[20:00] <Willdude> g0pai_ian, I don't really care what it is tbh
[20:00] <jonsowman> which is grammatically incorrect I note
[20:00] <Willdude> Just wanted a change
[20:00] <jonsowman> it should be You Live Only Once
[20:00] <g0pai_ian> AFK QRX 1hr - sked
[20:00] <Laurenceb> so if i VPN into a network i can ssh the machines on it?
[20:00] <Willdude> jonsowman, no it isn;t
[20:00] <Laurenceb> firewall permitting
[20:00] <Willdude> That's how people want to say
[20:01] <Willdude> *say it
[20:01] <Willdude> Therefore they say it like that
[20:01] <Willdude> Doesn't make it incorrect
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[20:01] <LeoBodnar> yeah Laurenceb
[20:01] <mfa298> Laurenceb: may depend on the VPN but you should be able to
[20:01] <jonsowman> Willdude: the two sentences have different meanings
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[20:01] <Laurenceb> ok thanks
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> i can't see why VPN would enforce any restrictions
[20:01] <Willdude> jonsowman, how so?
[20:01] <Laurenceb> right
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> it's just a tunnel in
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[20:01] <LeoBodnar> it escapes from your VPN server into the net
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> *subnet
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> and you do what you want
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[20:02] <mfa298> I think Bond would disagree with YOLO, He went for YOLT
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> short of maybe running multiple VPNs inside each other
[20:02] <Laurenceb> i get it
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[20:03] <jonsowman> Willdude: "you only live once" means living is the only thing you are doing once
[20:04] <jonsowman> whereas "you live only once" means what it says
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> what is the meaning of "hashtag"?
[20:04] <jonsowman> that is a mystery
[20:05] <mfa298> I think it's one of these nes fangled things that's probably just doing older stuff but giving it a new name to make it trendy
[20:05] <Willdude> jonsowman, it makes a good acronym and it's widely used
[20:05] <Babs_> hashtag is a bunch of dopeheads chasing each other around a field going "you're it"
[20:05] <jonsowman> Willdude: both of those things are true
[20:05] <mfa298> s/nes/new
[20:05] <jonsowman> it doesn't make it right ;)
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[20:05] <mfa298> Babs_: good one :D
[20:05] <jonsowman> lol
[20:05] <Willdude> jonsowman, however challenging the grammar of it is pendantic
[20:05] <Babs_> thanks mfa298. i made it up myself.
[20:05] <jonsowman> it certainly is
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> We must campaign for wider use of system charachters in normal life
[20:06] <Babs_> anyhow, yolo is sooooo 2009 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27405988
[20:06] <LeoBodnar> you are getting old Willdude
[20:06] <Willdude> LeoBodnar, what, like CR?
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> do FF on your life
[20:07] <Willdude> LeoBodnar, #yolo
[20:08] <mfa298> wasn't yolo banned from this channel a while back ?
[20:08] <Willdude> Alternately, #yoloswag
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> the banner has bailed out
[20:08] <Babs_> surely #yolo and spending most of ones life on IRC is contradictory
[20:08] <Willdude> mfa298, well, #yolo so who cares if I get banned?
[20:08] <LeoBodnar> You need DLE Willdude
[20:08] <Babs_> [21:05] <Willdude> jonsowman, however challenging the grammar of it is pendantic
[20:09] <Babs_> willdude, how is challenging grammar related to a necklace?
[20:09] <Willdude> Babs_, that was the joke
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[20:10] <Babs_> misspelling is unrelated to grammar
[20:10] <jonsowman> nice
[20:10] <Babs_> i'm a mathematician too, so can really barely read
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> grammar is the score. spelling is performance.
[20:11] <Babs_> oooo, LeoBodnar douze points
[20:11] <Willdude> Babs_, I know
[20:11] <Babs_> so it was a double joke? clever
[20:11] <Willdude> Anyway.
[20:11] <daveake> Someone should retract their pendanticism
[20:11] <Willdude> Balloons
[20:11] <Babs_> arf daveake
[20:12] <Babs_> certainly the context of this IRC is ballooning
[20:12] <Babs_> now *that* was a pun!
[20:12] <jonsowman> oh dear let's not start on puns
[20:12] <jonsowman> daveake always wins this game
[20:13] <Babs_> *drum roll*
[20:13] <jonsowman> if indeed one can win
[20:13] <daveake> I'm self-limiting to one pun per fest these days
[20:14] <LeoBodnar> do you offer pun tuition daveake ?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone have an idea what a resistor symbol with "8 dB" written next to it means?
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> there is no resistance given
[20:14] <daveake> I used to but I put a stop to it
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> I would think it is an attenuator
[20:16] <malgar> what is WB8ELK?
[20:16] <malgar> foil?
[20:16] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: what is the context? a block diagram?
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[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes, for the MIT Ozone spectrometer
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[20:17] <Willdude> #yolamos
[20:17] <mikestir> probably is then
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.haystack.mit.edu/edu/undergrad/VSRT/VSRT_Memos/071.pdf on Page 2
[20:17] <mikestir> this storm's come back for seconds
[20:17] <Willdude> I do like conjugating words that weren't supposed to be conjugated
[20:18] <Willdude> An example use would be
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[20:18] <Willdude> We launched a balloon today
[20:18] <Willdude> #yolamos
[20:19] <Upu> 3 x foil malgar
[20:19] <mfa298> Willdude: you may want to shush a bit whilst people are trying to ask sensible questions.
[20:19] <Upu> however one is most certainly down
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[20:19] <Willdude> sorry
[20:19] <malgar> 3 foil? wow
[20:20] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[20:20] <Upu> well 3 foils each with a tracker on each one
[20:20] <Willdude> Is it likely that if Ofcom is cool with allowing airborne use that it'll only be for full licensees?
[20:21] <Upu> yes but they won't
[20:21] <Willdude> Upu, why? What problem does it cause for them?
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> you'll need fill licence to build hardware anyway
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> *full
[20:22] <Upu> actually having to do something Willdude
[20:22] <Willdude> LeoBodnar, thought it was intermediate
[20:22] <mikestir> you can homebrew on an intermediate
[20:22] <mfa298> I suspect it will be Intermediate or Full as a way to incentivise people to upgrade rather than just doing the foundation
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> oh, I must resit the test XD
[20:23] <Willdude> Actually, for the purpose of choosing a callsign I could check if there are any that are actual words
[20:23] <Willdude> I assume they don't issue ones like XX(X)GOD
[20:24] <Willdude> Or if I wanted to be mean
[20:24] <Willdude> dw
[20:24] <Willdude> I digress
[20:24] <mikestir> my M6 callsign is DYE (which was random)
[20:24] <Willdude> Upu, has the FCC always allowed it?
[20:25] <mikestir> needless to say I didn't risk random after that
[20:26] <mfa298> Random used to always lead to the fun games of trying to come up with silly phonetics for it.
[20:40] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: turn the fan around :)
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> sp2ipt: it forgot to turn off soldering iron, so its going back home ;-)
[20:41] <Willdude> 2E0KGB not available
[20:41] <amell> Goodness me. we do seem to have a lot of balloons.
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> 2E0QRM ;-)
[20:41] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: :)
[20:42] <amell> 2E0WIL?
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[20:42] <Willdude> WLF is free
[20:43] <sp2ipt> UOB turned on the fan wrong way, I'm going to sleep. Night all :)
[20:43] <amell> FUK?
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[20:43] <Willdude> amell, I think all the profane ones aren't issued
[20:44] <Willdude> Tbh I don't mind what I pick
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[20:44] <Willdude> Because #yolo
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> You did notice that 2E0 is actually handwritten the same as LEO?
[20:45] <Willdude> No it is't
[20:45] <Willdude> Wait what
[20:45] <Willdude> 2 != L when written, unless you write twos weirdly
[20:46] <amell> 2eoBOD?
[20:46] <Babs_> I'm not sure the NOT operand really works there. letters are not binary.
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[20:46] <Willdude> I just had an idea
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> I already have 2E0TOY
[20:46] <Willdude> Wait not
[20:46] <Willdude> *no
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> Don't wait?
[20:47] <Willdude> I was thinking balloon launch from NADARS rally but maybe not
[20:50] <craag> Willdude: When is NADARS?
[20:51] <Willdude> craag, 15th
[20:51] <Willdude> I'll be manning the gate.
[20:51] <craag> june?
[20:52] <daveake> 15th
[20:52] <Willdude> June
[20:53] <mfa298> which year ? :p
[20:53] <Willdude> I'll probably be there all day.
[20:53] <craag> Out of the country that weekend
[20:53] <Willdude> craag, oh OK
[20:53] <Willdude> Did you go last year?
[20:53] <craag> I think I did
[20:54] <craag> I'm itching to do a launch - might do a pico next week
[20:54] <mfa298> I think I have pictures of craag at NADARS last year outside the BATC van
[20:54] <Willdude> craag, to be honest I don't remember it much
[20:54] <craag> mfa298: Hah yes, that's the one!
[20:54] <Willdude> I didn't understand much of it]
[20:55] <Willdude> I think being on the gate might involve people skill
[20:55] <Willdude> *skills
[20:55] <Willdude> mfa298, you going to it?
[20:56] <mfa298> not sure yet
[20:56] <mfa298> unless I end up offering to be a taxi service I'll probably decide on the 15th
[20:57] <Willdude> mfa298, well do say high (pun intended) if you see me
[20:57] <Willdude> And you do go
[20:58] <Willdude> My granddad actually saw someone he knows from church there last time
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[21:18] <aadamson> mikestir, ping
[21:18] <mikestir> pong
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[21:18] <aadamson> for your 433 lpf/match, did you just use the reference design? and you did the Switched one not the e class right?
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[21:19] <mikestir> yes I used the reference design (from AN627), but the class E one
[21:19] <aadamson> ah even better
[21:19] <aadamson> couldn't remember which you used
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[21:21] <aadamson> so the stuff on page 14?
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[21:21] <aadamson> with wirewound I'll assume?
[21:23] <mikestir> no, page 17 for the 4060
[21:23] <aadamson> yeah just noticed that worry
[21:23] <aadamson> sorry
[21:23] <mikestir> multilayer (since I'm being a cheapskate)
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[21:25] <mikestir> it actually uses the numbers from the direct tie table, which it says to do if you're using multilayer
[21:26] <mikestir> but they're the same for +10dBm anyway
[21:26] HA6NN (57e5281b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.229.40.27) joined #highaltitude.
[21:26] <HA6NN> Good evening all!
[21:27] <DL7AD> hi HA6NN
[21:27] <aadamson> yeah just noticed that... I think for now, I'll just say with what I've got... 90% of my flights will be over us and I can do aprs in flight here... was just thinking ahead if I ever made it across the ocean :)... not that I know that the only flight frequencies over there *for the most part* are the ism stuff in 433
[21:27] <HA6NN> I can't see SP9UOB's balloon on the tracker map!
[21:27] <aadamson> HA6NN, it's there I just checked
[21:28] <aadamson> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:28] <aadamson> that update was a minute ago
[21:28] <HA6NN> DL7AD: Hello Sven :)
[21:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: hi, just wash the screen with soft tissue ;-)
[21:29] <HA6NN> Hi Tom, Success! :)
[21:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> HA6NN: :-)
[21:30] <HA6NN> aadamson: Thx!
[21:31] <HA6NN> 7 ele DL6WU yagi here pointing towards the Nort...
[21:31] <HA6NN> h
[21:32] <Maxell> HA6NN: http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=sp9uob
[21:33] <HA6NN> RRRRRRRR
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[21:44] <DL7AD> HA6NN: rofl i has been my errror
[21:44] <DL7AD> *it
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[21:55] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[22:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[22:22] <saadzmirza> Hello
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[22:50] <cambazz> hello people. has anyone tried rfm22b or other similar transmitters?
[22:51] <craag> Hello cambazz
[22:51] <craag> Yes several of us have.
[22:52] <craag> The main problem is low temperatures. The crystal on them changes a lot with temperature, and eventually the whole module can fail if it gets too cold.
[22:52] <cambazz> well could you tell your experience or other options?
[22:52] <cambazz> there is this ntx2b but it is costly.
[22:53] <craag> The NTX2B is worth it for reliability. Otherwise there's not really much else in the price range of the rfm22 until you start making your own PCBs (using si4060 transmitter IC and similar)
[22:54] <craag> Plenty of people still use RFM22s
[22:54] <craag> You just have to insulate them well.
[22:54] <cambazz> it is like 22GBP. i was sort of designing something (a msp430g2552, a bmp160 barometer and rfm22b) and yes i am making a pcb for that
[22:55] <cambazz> let me check the si4060
[22:56] <cambazz> ok the si4060 is like in dorji transmitters. those have good ranges.
[22:56] <craag> I've no experience with the si4060 series myself, but several others have used it in RTTY payloads with great success (eg B-*)
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[23:02] <cambazz> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=551 <- this is exactly what i like to do. i wonder if that is for sale
[23:02] <craag> They are not.
[23:03] <craag> Making a PCB with ublox/atmega/rfm22 is very easy. I can vouch for that ;)
[23:03] <cambazz> i just gonna go with no gps. just barometer and probably one way mission.
[23:04] <cambazz> thats why i want it cheap
[23:05] <craag> ah ok
[23:05] <craag> rfm22 is probably your best bet then, at least for a first go
[23:08] <craag> You can play around with si4060 if you're planning on launching more after that, but it is a lot harder to control.
[23:09] <cambazz> what is the difference between the 22b and 23b?
[23:09] <craag> I don't know.
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[23:20] <cambazz> ok also, could someone tell me what FSK boards are these? http://ufoflicks.com/wp-content/themes/moviepress/thumbs/Transmitter-copy.jpg
[23:21] <cambazz> they certainly are not rfm22b and they are prolly non spi, so easier
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[23:25] <craag> They look like rfm12 or similar
[23:25] <craag> Honestly the rfm22 spi is dead easy
[23:26] <cambazz> damn btw rfm22b is already out of production
[23:26] <craag> Yep
[23:26] <cambazz> craag: yes i prolly can do that spi. it is just the damn connector.
[23:26] <craag> rfm69 is the official replacement - if you can get it
[23:26] <cambazz> well but then thats going to make driver headache
[23:27] <cambazz> and i searched it on google, baloon people are saying that it is not ideal because it requires at least 2.4v
[23:27] <craag> the rfm69 is not very different at all
[23:27] <craag> at least 2.4V for 100mW output
[23:27] <craag> Which country are you in?
[23:27] <cambazz> turkey
[23:28] <craag> Ah ok
[23:28] <craag> Have you got a ham license?
[23:28] <cambazz> i used to but it is expired
[23:29] <cambazz> rfm69 is cheaper btw.
[23:29] <cambazz> but there are many different versions
[23:29] <craag> Ok, so you'll probably want to use the 434MHz ISM band, which is 10mW max.
[23:30] <craag> Yeah I use the rfm69 for other projects
[23:30] <cambazz> umm i am going to order from ebay. so i prolly should go with 69
[23:30] <craag> RFM69W - 434 MHz is probably what you're after
[23:30] <cambazz> but there is 69W 69HW and 69CW
[23:30] <craag> The HW is capable of 100mW, so you don't need that
[23:30] <craag> I don't know what the C is
[23:31] <cambazz> i will just update my ham license. it is just expired.
[23:31] <craag> Cool, can you use it airborne?
[23:32] <cambazz> i have no idea, it is just a technical class. what do i need for balooning?
[23:33] <craag> Well in the UK most of us have ham licenses, but the UK laws do not allow us to use it airborne.
[23:33] <craag> So we have to use the 434MHz ISM 10mW band.
[23:33] <cambazz> use what airborne? your ham license.
[23:33] <craag> yeah
[23:34] <craag> But a lot of other countries do allow it.
[23:34] <craag> So you can use APRS, or higher power RTTY.
[23:34] <cambazz> ok quite frankly, i would not give a crap about laws here. but i would abide the aviation rules religiously, i guess baloon can do harm.
[23:35] <cambazz> craag: this is a country who can not get interference rules applied in even fm radio bands. everywhere interference.
[23:35] <craag> :/
[23:35] <craag> I would strongly suggest you check before doing anything.
[23:36] <cambazz> hmm i am trying to figure out the differences between 69W HW and CW. i found out W and HW but no clue about CW
[23:36] <cambazz> The RFM69CW is optimized for low power consumption while offering high RF output power and channelized operation.
[23:36] <cambazz> The RFM69W is optimized for low power consumption while offering high RF output power and channelized operation.
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[23:37] <craag> heh
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[23:37] <craag> I think the same question came up in another channel the other day.
[23:37] <craag> (We use RFM69HW for mesh networks)
[23:37] <craag> And nobody found the answer
[23:38] <cambazz> oh there is also HWC
[23:38] <cambazz> HCW
[23:39] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[23:43] <cambazz> craag: i have read the datasheets side by side, and the only delta is pcb size
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[23:45] <craag> Hmm maybe it's just a legacy-compatible footprint for one of their customers then
[23:48] <cambazz> ok the cw versions are compatible with rfm12b footprint
[23:50] <craag> Ah ok!
[23:50] <craag> go for the cheaper one then :P
[23:51] <cambazz> yes i am buying them right now, but this aliexpress has the cheapest i think
[23:52] <craag> How much btw?
[23:52] <cambazz> 3.90 in ebay + shipping
[23:52] <cambazz> 7.60 in aliexpress, freeshipping
[23:53] <cambazz> i am getting 5 so i will go with ebay
[23:54] <craag> are they local on ebay out there?
[23:54] <cambazz> no i am using international
[23:54] <cambazz> it is all the same btw. when u buy from ebay, you are buying from china, same place aliexpress or whatever
[23:54] <craag> Ah ok, check out ideetron.nl, they're the supplier we use
[23:55] <craag> The ones from the usa on ebay took weeks to arrive
[00:00] --- Tue May 20 2014